antidepressants - s&d, CoD, evil bitches, cash cows and saviours of sanity

I think I've made my feelings clear on the subject on a number of times, but I'm really trying hard not to start ranting.

I know that there are people who are vastly helped by them, whose lives are made stable, sane, etc. by them. I mean, yeah, there have to be, right, or Drs wouldn't keep prescribing them?

But to me, they were worse than fucking useless. I used to think that there was a period in my life when they "saved my life etc. etc." but looking back on it with hindsight, I realise that I was in an immensely painful position at the time, and the pills just *numbed* me for long enough to get the hell out of that position. Maybe that's useful, I dunno.

I think if they *are* useful, it's in the above scenario- as short term stopgaps till you get yourself stabilised. I know it's wrong to draw sweeping generalisations from your own personal experience, but in my experience, they are vastly over-presecribed, and for far too long a period. Anyone who tells me I have to be on some psychotropic drug for the rest of my life- I want to punch them in the face. Yes, I was told that I would be on lithium for the rest of my life. Taking lithium was like being punched in the kidneys twice a day, in terms of physical effects, and in terms of mental effects, it was like being wrapped in a huge, soft barrier of cotton wool, with an annoying radio playing low-volume symphonic hum just out of reach of your hearing. it also *really* destroyed my creativity for a year and a half. Not a trade-off I am willing to make.

That's not even mentioning the awful side effects of the anti-depressants- the throwing up, the mealy mouthed dryness, the sedative effects, the passing out and falling asleep all the time- I even had one medication which made me unable to tolerate sunlight. Seeing how so much of depression is caused by seasonal things- yeah, *that's* gonna help me.

So for me, dudder than dudder than dud. I religiously do the daily routine things that I know keep my moods stable. And I do just live with a great deal of just plain eccentricity that my doctors used to term "symptoms" or "insanity".

As to the stigma of taking them...? Don't get me going on why mental illness is stigmatised in a way that no other form of illness is stigmatised. The stigma is attached to the illnes, not to the medication. My hatred of the medication has far more to do with hatred of the medical profession than it has to do with any sort of stigma.

JEEZ!!!!!!!!! Talking about the mental health profession = MORE VITRIOL AND BITTERNESS THAN A ROOM FULL OF DOOM PATROLS!!!

Don't even get me started on your job...

Re 'stigma'. Yes, but its symptomatic (ho ho) of the completely f**ked up attitude we have to mental health. In da UK 1 in 8 women, 1 in 12 men, will spend some time in a psychiatric hospital. Swept under the carpet, people feel embarrassed to talk about it. You broke your leg and needed operating on ? Tea + Sympathy, you had a 'breakdown' ermmm is that the time? 'Stress' has become a catch- all term, to the point of meaningless, as its easier to talk about than depression, unhappiness, inability to cope etc. I think the right term is 'denial'.

The joys of clinical trials. College campuses are a gigantic petri dish, as far as I'm concerned.

I've had horrible experiences with friends who have gone completely nuts while on prozac. A boy I knew back in upstate NY- a very creative, intelligent and, well... slightly eccentric musician and artist. He was put on prozac for some reason or other, and first off, he ballooned up about 100 lbs in weight, and then he started to talk about how electric fields were controlling his thoughts. Next thing, he started moving furniture around the house because he claimed the noise from the electricity in the walls was keeping him awake. Then he smashed up my sister's flat, throwing shit around and destroying everything in sight.

As soon as he went off the prozac, he returned to his normal zany, creative, eccentric, but completely well balanced self.

So this is why I believe prozac = very, very bad thing.

Oh, and lithium does produce low level auditory hallucinations. I thought I was going mad! Well... maddER. I have never seen it listed in any of the side effects booklets, but both my brother and I both had exactly the same experiences with it. It nearly drove me insane, because I've spent the rest of my life looking for music that approximated that sound. It was quite lovely, actually.

Hallucinations, in lawyers, are worrying. I could be one step away from dancing babies, bad scripts and Vonda Shepherd.

Dan's Joei story = genius. No wonder he married her. :-) Out of curiosity, what *did* they say after that devestating quip back?

No, seriously, Paul, in your case, I know that your hallucinations were caused by SLEEP DEPRIVATION. This can cause hallucinations as real and as terrifying as any drug. I've seen the sky swimming with killer paramecium paisley after being up for two days, with no drugs involved.

Probably not the most gentle of responses, but considering that she started the conversation from the perspective of "If you don't need, this stuff isn't good for you and you shouldn't be taking it" and got attacked, I don't blame her for letting loose with both barrells.

Dude, I am so tired. Supposed to fo the final inspection of our condo today. I can barely keep my eyes open. I need caffeine (the only socially-acceptable upper).

On the other hand I was and am a hobby writer, not a working writer, so I don't have the discipline of writing or creating daily anyway, which might well get you through.

To this I can only say "GIMME THE ANTIDEPRESSANTS NOW."

About a month ago we added Lithium. Hopefully that will pick up any depression wellbutrin can't handle.

*raises hand* 300 milligrams a day. No noticable side effects.

I was on Effexor for a little while after a hospital stay two years ago. It worked incredibly well at pulling me from the deepest depths of depression. But I hated the "brain shivers" I got and became scared when I read that the dependency it could cause was dangerous for bipolars. Anyway I got off.

I wonder if the interweb has done me more damage in terms of "information" about my meds?

Great thread.

I am so surprised I didn't post on it eh.

Maybe Dom's revive should warn me off this thread, but hey.

It's been suggested that I go back on these. I'm a little reluctant, for various reasons, but I don't want to dismiss it outright if it's the best way forward. So I thought I'd bump this and see if anyone else had anything to say.

(more detail about the reasons may be forthcoming later, but I've typed out my epic rants and, well, tl;dr.)

i heard that the part of yr brain that makes serotonin atrophies because it's not being used anymore, if yr on antidepressants too long. so you come off them perma-depressed.

my cat has just been prescribed Elavil. How can I use this to my recreational advantage? Is it worth popping one? He seems quite content at the moment.
-- kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, May 4, 2004 3:33 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

haa wtf?

I think the best idea is to listen to your doctor and not to people on the internet. I understand that if you live somewhere where your doc might make money from your meds you might feel apprehensive, but they're still muvh more informed than us/you/i.

HA, a true ilx question.

xp

i heard that the part of yr brain that makes serotonin atrophies because it's not being used anymore, if yr on antidepressants too long. so you come off them perma-depressed.

-- jeremy waters, Monday, July 28, 2008 8:31 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

where did you hear this, it sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

dowd OTM

Plus there are tons of internet wackies who will tell you that if you are even thinking of talking about SSRIs, you're a brainwashed bitch who needs more yoga and chakra realignment. Those people always get me mad butthurt.

Listen to your doctor and those that know you well & care about you IRL.

Also there is nothing wrong with being on any medication and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Not that I's saying you should; once again, talk with a good doctor about this.

i think the real questions we need to be asking ourselves is how we can get our pets to score more drugs for us

where did you hear this, it sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

-- bell_labs, Monday, July 28, 2008 9:40 PM

i can't remember. it's one theory as to why people have such a hard time coming off SSRI's.

My mom-in-law's dog was prescribed klonopin. Six ml a day! It kind of lead to her getting addicted to klonopin (sorry dog, no pills for you).

Normal human dose is one-two ml a day.

x-post
well afaik there are very few studies about long-term antidepressant use and the research is far from being able to tell us anything like that.

i'd be really curious about seeing the results of actual studies , and it worries me that there aren't more. but when people say stuff like that i assume they got their information from a scientologist or something.

maybe it is bullshit, i dunno. have to have a bit of a google.

what's the generally accepted view of why some people have such a hard time withdrawing, especially long-term users?

I wouldn't be totally shocked if having serotonin provided via meds led to natural production being slowed/replaced/etc by the brain, just from the standpoint that the body usually gets rid of draws on its resources that become unnecessary. However if you were underproducing IN THE FIRST FREAKIN PLACE, that doesn't really change anything, does it.

i think that it's thought that there is a temporary reduction in SSRI production but i've never seen any claims that it causes permanent brain damage. i know that some people bounce back. and the people that generally respond to SSRIs are people with a genuine deficiency to begin with, not people with situational depression, so it makes sense they would be depressed when they go off them.

can i just say (as a long-term user ... 10 years?) that i missed my lexapro for three days last week, and by the third day i was considering throwing myself under a bus. i mean, not really, but that's how it felt.

i'm not saying one way or another about brain damage but just reiterating that if you're going to take these things be careful not to miss doses or just go off whenever you feel like it.

yeah, i know that feeling and it sucks :( there is no way i'd last 3 days even.

listen to your doctor, yes, they know a lot. but they aren't God, and they're often lazy (or, overworked, if you'd like) mofos who always take the option that's easiest for them. really easy to throw pills at a patient (pills recommended by that nice pharmaceutical rep lady who routinesly comes by and buys lunch for the whole office) and be off to the next one than try to suss out and deal with a patient's individual-specific problems and the causes of thos problems.

that's a therapist's job, not a doctor's

I wouldn't be totally shocked if having serotonin provided via meds led to natural production being slowed/replaced/etc by the brain, just from the standpoint that the body usually gets rid of draws on its resources that become unnecessary. However if you were underproducing IN THE FIRST FREAKIN PLACE, that doesn't really change anything, does it.

Well, it depends on if the baseline post-drugs is even lower. Obviously a major study is needed, if one isn't already underway. There are definitely many other chemicals that the body will stop producing if it's being supplemented from outside, but -- outside of steroid users' legendary shrivelings -- I don't know which ones bounce back and which ones don't.

I know it's helped quite a few people, but Effexor frightens me -- some patients apparently have to take it for life, as the (reportedly super-intense) withdrawal symptoms never stop.

exactly. LOTS of people bypass the therapist stage.
xpost

I have already asked parents and boyfriend, but nobody I know well enough offline to ask has been on them (yeah, I know! I don't know many people right now, it has to be said), hence digging up this thread. I'm aware that I've let myself get a bit jaded about them with not much to back it up, so I wanted to read some personal experience.

Already booked a doctor's appointment - he's a super-smart guy and he's usually a sympathetic listener, but in the past his advice has seemed more aimed at getting the newly-diagnosed depressive on some kind of standard plan. I wouldn't try to do anything without listening to him first, but if he says I should be on them I'd like to feel a bit more comfortable with the idea myself first.

re effexor: the last time i missed a dose for over 48 hours was when i was 17. it was also the first time. i'm not saying the withdrawal doesn't suck, it clearly does, and it is 100% of the reason i've never tried to discontinue effexor. i've heard of people having brain zaps for up to a year afterwards.

it sucks that the most frightening thing about pregnancy is that i would have to go through withdrawal, and if it was unplanned, i'd have to go through it while my body was going through all of these other changes...that is even scarier to me than actually giving birth.

but honestly? i don't know if i'd be anywhere without antidepressants. i might have eventually become this stable, but i really doubt i would have made it. i do think they helped me, but i definitely have really mixed feelings about it.

i used effexor for a couple of years and yes, the headaches that i got when i would miss doses were quite scary. like migraines but without the pain; you'd feel weird zaps and tingles, like your brain was spinning around in your skull. actually it was not unlike coming down off of hard drugs (the illegal kind).

and back to granny dainger:

at this point, every large healthcare organization, whether hospital or university system or HMO or PPO, has split off it's mental health care from it's general health care. because they're really different things. so complaining that your doctor gave you pills is a bit like complaining that you went to the doctor with a toothache and he gave you pain pills. if you wanted oral surgery, why didn't you just go to the dentist? i would be surprised if a GP gave you pills but no recommendation to a therapist.

actually if you're in an HMO you'd need to go to your doctor first ... but you'd just say, "i'm depressed and want to see a therapist", or "i'm hearing voices and want to see a psychiatrist". and that would be that.

i wouldn't be too wary of the fact that there's a "standard plan" for depression. i mean, that's what makes it a profession, in the sense that law or accountancy is a profession. there's a standard plan for everything, whether you have broken bones, or cancer, or pneumonia, or colitis or what. and the reason there's these standard plans is that they've been shown to work for the vast majority of people. (an interesting question is why people are worried about that: do they imagine medicine happens like it does on TV hospital shows, where every time someone goes into the doctor's office the doctor sits around with his buddies for an hour trying to figure out what's wrong with you and what can be done?)

so you should be *happy* that there's a standard plan: it means your condition is treatable, and has been successfully treated in thousands (millions?) of other people.

I don't know, Spacecadet, what are your reasons for your reluctive stance on your doctor's advice?

There's no 'failure' in going back to meds if needed. A feeling of failure can only make you feel more distressed about taking meds again, fighting the very thing that's probably the right thing to do right now. I assume you know this, having taken meds before.

I've been on meds for six, seven years now. There were times I felt strong, and decided to take smaller doses, but on occasion I've had to up it again. After all these ups and downs in dosage I'm at 75mg Efexor today, starting out at 150mg all these years ago. So that's... something, I guess.

I did learn there's no 'reward' in the simple idea of 'must-stay-free-of-meds'. It's an appealing thought, definitely, but you can come up to a point where it's just not realistic. So if your fear is: "I don't want to use meds anymore because they suck and I'll be stuck on them forever", that's very understandable, but it's also ultimately about the future. And you seem to be needing help right now. Ignore the long-term visions of dying a meds-taker in sixty years, and think about today, about right now. That's what counts most now.

xpost

it dosen't matter if it's a PCP or if it's a "therapist" met with you for a half hour and then threw pills at your problems. i'm using "doctor" in a broad sense to refer to whoever the med professional is that someone is trusting to help them with their mental state. The fucked up part is that, insuarance-wise, someone who goes to therapy for a year is looked on less favorably than someone who has no trad therapy but takes medication.

granny d, i mean a therapist with whom you meet regularly to talk over your problems, not a therapist who "met with you half an hour and then threw pills at your problems".

are you really hoping that the doctor is going to say that you're that one-in-a-million person with a thyroid problem who needs it zapped with radiation? or that you're an incurable depressive who needs a lobotomy? or that they'd like to put you on a special experimental treatment? you're depressed because you have a brain tumor? or that you were really adopted?

^^ i'm not trying to make of fun of you, these are things that i thought when i was disappointed with my "standard plan". i was like, "eat right, regular sleep, exercise, meds, see a therapist, keep a diary ... that can't be all?!? i have PROBLEMS!!!" ...

re effexor: the last time i missed a dose for over 48 hours was when i was 17. it was also the first time. i'm not saying the withdrawal doesn't suck, it clearly does, and it is 100% of the reason i've never tried to discontinue effexor. i've heard of people having brain zaps for up to a year afterwards.

it sucks that the most frightening thing about pregnancy is that i would have to go through withdrawal, and if it was unplanned, i'd have to go through it while my body was going through all of these other changes...that is even scarier to me than actually giving birth.

I have been on Effexor since 2001 except for two years between now and then. I had moved to England and couldn't find a Dr when I ran out and when through the withdrawals. All in all the "brain zaps" lasted for about a week and it was bearable - barely. I went on it again a couple years later when my anxiety got bad again. Despite all the withdrawal issues (this morning I was 7 hours late in taking it and already started feeling funny) I'm happy with it. It's worked wonders for me and I don't experience any other effects.

Prozac + therapy has worked great for me (fwiw my depression revolved mostly around self-image problems & social anxiety)

have yet to go off it though

ENBB otm, can't say anything else. There's always this chicken/egg question hovering somewhere in the back of my mind - is it the thing I needed for all those years (poor serotonine production?), or have I become addicted to Efexor and simply can't go without it anymore, which is why I feel bad without it?

But I really can't be bothered by that question anymore. Ofcourse, evolution and survival instinct is in all of us, which is why I can't accept the image of me using Efexor still after twenty years from now. But I have also experienced how it more or less keeps me on track nowadays. The trick is acknowledging that track is a different one from the track I was on ten years ago.

[also, but this is very off-topic: Efexor is a major hangover destroyer! The times I was accidentaly without it, alcohol made me sick all the time. But don't try this at home.]

Attempt to summarise long, dull reasons for being reluctant (sorry, they're still long and dull):
1. I don't feel depressed so much as frustrated at not escaping a mental rut. World of difference from when I was first put on SSRIs.
(Then again I'd convinced myself I wasn't ill then, and I haven't managed to turn my life around much since, with or without medication.)

2. I was on sertraline for two years and they did fuck all for me except a few mildly unpleasant side-effects (skittery heartbeat which kept me awake at night, constant headaches, unsettling dreams I couldn't wake up from, subsequent inability to tell when I was awake).
("fuck all" may be hindsight but my parents said the same thing unbidden, which I was not really expecting)

3. But I was lucky enough not to have any really horrible side-effects or withdrawal symptoms. Effexor at least made me ill quickly enough that I came off it after a week when I couldn't even swallow the tablets. Given all the horror stories, trying another brand seems like agreeing to another round of Russian roulette. Need to convince myself that the next attempt could go right as easily as wrong.

4. sorry Abbott: kneejerk doubt of current neurochemical understanding ("serotonin appears to be a good thing; we don't know why or what it's interacting with, but let's throw chemicals in until the level increases") and distrust of pharmaceutical corporate practice ("who gives a shit as long as we can hide any negative clinical trials and make a few billion before we have to pull it from sale")

...but yeah, I realise I know fuck all about that stuff and if the doctor prescribes me something for a physical ailment I don't refuse the prescription and shout about capitalism, so I guess I should cross 4 off. After all I do know there are people out there whose lives were improved by these things, and I know moonship's going to school me on this one...

what's the generally accepted view of why some people have such a hard time withdrawing, especially long-term users?

This is like asking a diabetic why they have such a hard time going off insulin.

I wrote:
1. I don't feel depressed so much as frustrated at not escaping a mental rut. World of difference from when I was first put on SSRIs.
(Then again I'd convinced myself I wasn't ill then, and I haven't managed to turn my life around much since, with or without medication.)

This is too negative. I know I'm much better now. Back then I was in a bad way but I thought I was just being stupid and lazy and the doctor would laugh me out of the surgery. Now I can recognise how depressed I was then and I don't feel like that at all. I picked up some mental habits while depressed that I can't seem to shake, and now I'm not technically depressed I'm hoping I might finally get myself together to shift them, is how I currently look at it.

(I got re-referred to therapy on this basis, but general calmly thought-out frustration at self for still being completely incapable of day-to-day productivity gave medium-high scores on the Beck inventory despite complete difference in feeling, which combined with how difficult I still find it to talk about last time round = therapist goes, wait, why aren't you on meds? and sends me back to the GP)

Yeah, I've gone well into "things you shouldn't tell the internet" territory and scared everyone off. But I'm off to sleep on it for tonight. Thanks for replying and for not calling me an immature science-phobic jerk for #4 (yet). I am actually encouraged that the post-revive answers have been more positive about antidepressants than the previous ones; I know I sound pretty kneejerk anti-medication, but I did want some other opinions, otherwise I'd have told myself I was right without asking ILX.

not really, the range of withdrawal symptoms seems to be much wider than simply feeling depressed again.

xpost

I know moonship's going to school me on this one...

is it that obvious that i'm a teacher? ;_;

i would say it sounds like you've thought this out pretty well! besides, i'm not sure antidepressants have anything to do with my day-to-day productivity other than getting me out of bed & the house.

Passing spacecadet, don't worry about being tmi, we're all being a little tmi but I think its good to talk about this instead of blindly going into it just based on drs orders. The decision is absolutely yours and unless you are endangering yourself or others you don't have to do anything you don't feel confortable doing.

I really like that people are talking about their experiences here.its really interesting.

(fwiw my depression revolved mostly around self-image problems & social anxiety)

this was me circa 13-16 years old. i was on paxil for a short while then, less than half a year if i remember right, and they did a world of good to kind of rid me of the worst aspects of my social anxiety and depression. i have mixed if mostly positive feelings about it, in the sense that it was kind of the shove in the right direction so that i was able to work on a lot of other things about myself without meds. losing a lot of weight helped the self-image problem, and i dont know that i would have had the self-worth to do anything about it without the anti-deps. still super introverted (like if the myers-briggs tests matter for shit, i always get at least 90% introverted) and get the occasional social panic attack in situations with lots of (mostly strangers) people. but i sweat everyday shit a lot less than i did 5 years ago.

i mean a sorta macho part of me wishes i was able to just deal with it cognitively on "my own" (was seeing a therapist for a couple of years, so rly on my own=sans meds) but i guess i was fortunate (or mild enough a case of depression) to not merit needing to be on it too long.

Hey spacecadet, I know you ain't being all anti-science! What I meant by my rather blunt and over-broad comment ("there is nothing wrong with being on any medication and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise") is that sometimes people need certain medications, and there's no shame in that.

ie It's okay to be on klonopin if you've got crushing anxiety, or digitalis if you have certain heart problems. Someone might be fine with just therapy (or something else) for anxiety, another person might have the sort of heart problem that just requires aspirin. Klonopin (benzodiazapene) and digitalis (fucking toxic foxgloves!) are potent chemicals, and potent medicines, that help certain people to enormous extents with their mental or physical problems. (Don't accidentally take digitalis...when I did, I saw green halos and vomited all day.)

I totes understand ambivalence (or worse) toward the wide, weird world of psychopharmeceuticals. Neuroscience is a wicked young field but so much of psychiatry acts like it is the One Ring to Solve it All. Like you said, there's a lot of uncertainty on all's part & sometimes it does feel like darts in the dark. Plus, without insurance or patience assistance, SSRIs are fucking 'spensive!!! (I hope you have one or both available.)

That said, basically two things have kept me from going over the edge. One is trying to stay chill & not take on unduly stressful situations, when avoidable. The other is taking medication! (Surprisingly, I have had a harder time finding a good therapist than I have a good psychiatrist or nurse practitioner.) I've been on Lexapro for two years (maybe a little longer?) and it works great. I still have emotions but it defs keeps me from crying and wishing I was not alive all day & all night, every day & night. It keeps me from not going to class or work because I'm too scared or too apathetic. And not all have that bad of side effects if you need to taper down & quit taking them (Paxil & Effexor are pretty notorious for being the worst).

OTOH you seem a wise & introspective person, and I'm sure you'll figure out what's best for you. I'm defs not trying to push you either way. Science has proven the best treatment plan for a mental illness (or such) is the one you research and choose for yourself. What I am reiterating, longwinded, is that it's okay to take SSRIs if they help you.

Thank you all. There is much wisdom and reassurance here. Still don't really know what I want, but at least I've now thought about it and can see good possibilities in either outcome, which would not have been true yesterday.

Current feelings: not in much hurry to, but if both GP and clinical psychologist think it's the right thing to do at this point I would be curious to see if a different kind and a few years of changed head-space makes a difference.

I would, after all, love something to make that difference; I just suspect that by this point it needs to be me, in some way I haven't quite figured out yet (c.f. moonship's "besides, i'm not sure antidepressants have anything to do with my day-to-day productivity other than getting me out of bed" - and hey, I'm getting out of bed, going to work, not bursting into tears if anyone asks how I am, all of which seemed nearly impossible once, which makes me think I'm not really in the place to need them).

And yes, I'm lucky enough (as regards paying for medical care, anyway) to be in the UK. I feel for you guys who have to pay for this without insurance. From what I've read it sounds crazy expensive.

Thanks again!

Okay, so I just went back on Lexapro after being off since the beginning of February 2008. Ran out of prescription then, couldn't get it refilled, was totally fucked for a week or so, but got over it and actually felt pretty fine by the middle of March. Next months were great, too, but probably because I had gotten into grad school, was totally having a grand old time taking bike rides, reading and getting blitzed all day, etc.

But once again about two months ago, I started getting a familiar sense of anxiety and feeling depressed about my prospects, my body, my skills (or perceived lack thereof). So I got the prescription refilled, and started taking it again today.

When I originally began taking Lexapro in the fall of 06, I was ready to jump off a building. Now I'm not in that same state by any stretch, but I'm most definitely not the same person I was, say, last July. I was much more content. So while I'm feeling a bit like a chump for going back on the pills, I also think I need them?

if it works for you, then brilliant. no one wants you to be "not" happy and shit!

can i just say (as a long-term user ... 10 years?) that i missed my lexapro for three days last week, and by the third day i was considering throwing myself under a bus. i mean, not really, but that's how it felt.

tldr the whole thread at the moment, but the above resonated with me -- lexapro works very well for me as long as i take it every day. i can go one day without it, but any more than that and i get the crazies. i have to time my prescription refills/renewals so they're ready before the pharmacy closes for the weekend at 6pm on fridays. i've run out of lexapro over a weekend or two and i've had to go across town to the doctor's office and ask for sample packs to tide me over. cuz if i don't have them... i'm super edgy and anxious.

however, this stuff works for me better than any other anti-depressant i've been on (inc. zoloft, effexor, wellbutrin). no brain zaps!

it doesn't "cure" depression, but it does help me push it to the side so i can get out of the house and live my life and be responsible and do fun things.

I've been tempted to beg steal or borrow anti-anxiety meds because as I grow older (sadly not wiser) my state of anxiety lasts much longer. When I was a child it would only be in the summer - crazy huh - but now it's much longer. (Actually the best solution would be having my parents around so they can take care of business again but that's impossible. Or maybe change jobs? Running your own or your parents' business can be extremely stressful.) Anyhow the only therapist I talked about this was very much anti-depressants/anxiety meds saying I would need stronger and stronger ones. Grrr. Saddo didn't address my anxiety either though, so fuck him and I quit therapy. Stupid me didn't change therapists. Hmm. But I do realize that my panic attacks NOW might be stronger due to sleep deprivation (hello kids, you are wonderful but you're wearing me the fuck out with waking up every hour even after nine months).

i used effexor for a couple of years and yes, the headaches that i got when i would miss doses were quite scary. like migraines but without the pain; you'd feel weird zaps and tingles, like your brain was spinning around in your skull. actually it was not unlike coming down off of hard drugs (the illegal kind).

Someone I know missed his pills a few times and his body completely freaked the fuck out. tWas VERY scary. I actually asked the pharmacy about it who told me how he was in withdrawel and shit.

Friend of mine her bro is on effexor or something. She was a bit negative about it. I told her that if you're going through a rough patch, why NOT take something? There's NOTHING to be ashamed of. I actually admire people who want to solve their problems. It takes a lot of courage.

Have any ilxors been on Pristiq? According to Wikipedia, side effects can include priapism and night terrors, which is not exactly reassuring.

ask your doctor or pharmacist

My husband was on it for a little less than a month and describes it as having made him feel "jittery and angry." FWIW I am guessing priapism is probably a pretty rare side effect.

xposts Are those expected or common side effects, or are they part of the extended list of far off threats that never happen to anyone really but they have to tell you because they COULD if you had some unforeseen rare condition etc etc bla...?

side effects: jitteriness, anger, permanent boner

It turns you into Tetsuo: Iron Man.

http://www.permawood.com/images/toplinks.jpg

I have, but his willingness to immediately hand me a nice big Wyeth-branded bag with two months' worth on my first appointment makes me kind of skittish. Thought I would ask around the internets to see if anyone has first-hand experience with it. (xpost)

And no, they're not common side effects, they're just the most amusing/horrifying ones. I'm told the common ones are dizziness, nausea, insomnia and fatigue, which is again kind of worrying because (except for nausea) those are the symptoms that got me to the damn doctor in the first place.

iirc from personal experience and watching commercials during the nightly news, "dizziness, nausea, insomnia and fatigue" are common side effects for all antidepressants

usually not all at once, though

I have, but his willingness to immediately hand me a nice big Wyeth-branded bag with two months' worth on my first appointment makes me kind of skittish. Thought I would ask around the internets to see if anyone has first-hand experience with it. (xpost)

And no, they're not common side effects, they're just the most amusing/horrifying ones. I'm told the common ones are dizziness, nausea, insomnia and fatigue, which is again kind of worrying because (except for nausea) those are the symptoms that got me to the damn doctor in the first place.

― a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:45 PM (9 minutes ago)

first-hand experience is worthless, though, with all respect. there's a bunch of personalized factors why your doc might have prescribed pristiq that make you more or less susceptible to certain side-effects, which is why you should talk to a health care professional who knows your situation and the drugs more intimately, rather than internet randoms with stories, as kind as they may be. voice your concerns about the side effects to the MD or pharmacist and i don't see why they wouldn't be happy to tell you why the particular med is the best for you, and what you can do to minimize or deal with the ones you might experience

ones = adverse effects

I'm really starting to feel like I may need these. I mean, what I really need to do is sort out my life and do healthier things for myself and develop better habits and hobbies (note: not referring to chemicals here), but even getting the impetus to do these things...I feel like I have to drag myself through molasses to start doing them and when I do them I can't enjoy them and only find more problems. My personal life has been hectic for a couple of years (marriage, children, house, in-laws) and my job - which was previously my place of solace where I could tune out and work on autopilot - has turned into a real clusterfuck lately. The stress is starting to get to me.

I've typically resisted using medication in the hopes that I could make alterations to my life that would improve my sense of well-being, and this has usually worked out well enough, but right now it feels like I'm really fighting against the tide.

Any suggestions about how to go about this? Things to watch out for when talking to a doctor?

e.g.
his willingness to immediately hand me a nice big Wyeth-branded bag with two months' worth on my first appointment makes me kind of skittish

Sometimes folks need the medication to be able to do the better habits and hobbies stuff. If you can't manage to make the lifestyle changes, maybe that is a symptom in and of itself?

Yeah, that's my current belief. I harbor absolutely no stigma towards the use of psychiatric medication. However, I wanted to try other, more behavioral steps first.

kkvgz, u should talk to a pro & first suss out whether what you are experiencing is anxiety or depression, or some sort of overlap of both (pretty common, actually). Each thing will have its own set of possible pharm solutions - sometimes it takes some trial and error to figure out what will work, but if you find something that does, it should be pretty self-evident. Sometimes ppl can wean themselves off these kinds of meds & successfully transition back to your "normal self" w/ positive lifestyle adjustments over time.

i would be suspicious of advice on this subject coming from a box of pills

meds might possibly give you more energy if you're depressed or more calm if you're anxious, but yeah they're not going to give you better habits or hobbies.

(hook me up if i am wrong tho)

oh no of course not. my problem is not as much with direction but with uh, some blend of motivation and attitude and mood.

"motivation" of an internal, rather than external variety.

i would be suspicious of advice on this subject coming from a box of pills

lol, I think the fact that I have a box of pills merely confirms that I am an authority on the subject! Actually, I think the go-to ilxor for advice from on this sort of thing is Christine Green-Tea Dragon Indica-Leaf.

you could try seeing a therapist at first and not taking medication immediately. this was actually my plan when I finally sought help again, though I was convinced to go back on it (for which I am completely grateful)

fwiw my experience was doctor first, which = pills, followed by parallel referral to therapist. i was lucky to get a free referral. i found that the pills neutralised the crappy feelings i had about my life and therefore i had more brain space to concentrate on the things i wanted to do, that were positive for me (e.g. family, children, hobbies, being me). talking to a therapist gave me another dimension to this, exploring whether some of my initial problems were deep-seated etc.

after a couple of years i felt as though the pills were giving me rushes and i was going round in circles with my therapist, saying the same things. both of which told me that i was doing too much of them and needed to cut down. which i did. stopped the therapy sessions and tapered off the pills.

still have days and hours and longer periods of weird feelings but they're not the same cos i'm in my 40s now and was in my 30s then so my outlook is different, my kids are older etc etc. but in essence the fact i can contextualise my fears/depressive episodes means - to me - that i'm strong enough still to deal with them. for the time being.

sorry, should have said i'm uk not usa based. so the public health approach here is more broad brush have some pills to deal with depression and come back in a month and tell me how you feel. which i'm fine with.

a friend moved to usa a few years ago, had similar issues, and because of different health system/insurance ended up on about 5 different meds for depression/anxiety/not sleeping/not eating. overkill as far as i'm concerned. when she moved back to uk she was given just one set of meds and is now off them.

avoid the medding for meds' sake.

and now i'll shut up about me.

i really hope things work out for you.

...and also avoid the non-meding for non-meding's sake. And don't try to get off of meds just so that you can feel proud of yourself for not taking pills. (I'm not targeting any particular ILXor with that last sentence.) The best analogy for this is diabetes--some people can control it with diet and exercise alone, some people need pills (there are dozens of different ones, each with different effects), and some people need insulin (and there are many different kinds of this, too). The important thing is to remember to think of this as just another chronic illness.

^^truth

i feel like i wasted years of my life because of that attitude

Christ, it's so hard to even make an appointment.

Like, people'll be like, we're all booked up until December 22nd. My brain hurts now.

I hate it when I'm freaking out and I want to make an appointment with my med provider cause I think I need to change stuff up and oh, welp... first available appointment is 3 weeks from now. Which is kind of whats going on right now....

My psychiatrist only comes to the free clinic that I go to every two months or so.

I got it moved up until a week from today, but wow if you had strep or something, you'd be able to get in and see a doctor pretty quickly. Like, when I posted here back on 11/11/10, it was because I felt that something I've been living with quietly for years had started to reach a point where it was completely out of control. It's a huge assumption to make, but I'd have to think that for a large percentage of people who seek psychiatric help, they only reach out once they've reached some sort of breaking point. A month-and-a-half is a long time to waver back and forth across the breaking point, imo! The old brain is feeling pretty jagged.

celexa, pill of god for me.

I started on a low dose of Wellbutrin about two weeks ago. The psychiatrist said that it's supposed to take up to a month for it to fully take hold, but I like what it's doing so far! I'm not in a constant downward spiral of worry and dread anymore, I'm a lot less grouchy to my friends and coworkers, my mind is clear and able to concetrate on tasks. Those are the main effects.

Sure hope I don't have a fucking seizure, like Laurel's friend. Yikes!

"concentrate", obvs. lol.

hooray for things going well!

i started on citalopram back in april and it's pretty much been a life-changer. most unexpected difference = how easy it is to get out of bed in the morning. before, i could sleep for 12 hours and still feel like my body was a sack of wet concrete; now it's just waking up and standing up, like it's nothing! someone on another message board described their depression as feeling like their "get-up-and-go" was broken, and that was my experience too. it was physically difficult to just get up out of my desk chair, let alone go downstairs, try to carry laundry around, go to the store, etc. a week after i started medication i was like "oh my god you know what's super-easy to do? climb stairs!!!"

this also helped me psychologically because i had been beating myself up for a long time over how little i was able to do, compared to other people my age. "how can they manage having two kids/traveling the world/going to concerts three nights a week? o right they aren't so bowed by serotonin deficiency that climbing stairs is an epic battle."

"oh my god you know what's super-easy to do? climb stairs!!!"

I can completely relate.

this also helped me psychologically because i had been beating myself up for a long time over how little i was able to do, compared to other people my age. "how can they manage having two kids/traveling the world/going to concerts three nights a week? o right they aren't so bowed by serotonin deficiency that climbing stairs is an epic battle."

^^^

...however, now that my brain is straightened out, I'm still hobbled by circumstances into poverty and low-status jobs.

My partner started on Citalopram today, and he expects to be taking it for at least the next twelve months. He wasn't expecting to walk away from the doctor's with an SSRI prescription, but the GP explained that he was describing all the classic symptoms of depression. (It's an exceptionally good GP practice, so I have no reason to question her judgement.) Anyway, I really hope it helps him.

at least the next twelve months

I'd question that, personally.

Recently read two quite interesting graphic novels sort of tangentially related to this area:

http://writingeastmidlands.co.uk/images/uploads/depresso_cover_email.jpg

and

http://www.wheretheclientis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/couch-fiction-300x261.jpg

Definitely recommend the Philippa Perry (wife of potter Grayson Perry) one a lot as a good insight into psychotherapy from both sides of the experience.

I know Brick, the author of Depresso - we have a couple of good friends in common, and he has drawn caricature portraits of me a couple of times.

I must admit: I did wonder whether you'd know him when I saw it on the Writing East Midlands page.

"oh my god you know what's super-easy to do? climb stairs!!!"

I know this feeling exactly and I haven't seen it for months except in brief fits and spurts of "hey, maybe it's time to throw out the trash" or "you know what you should do with that book? read it" (though it rarely lasts long enough for me to get through a whole book). I haven't bought groceries in over a week and I'm reduced to stealing toilet paper from work because I can't muster up the energy/enthusiasm/non-agoraphobia to just go fucking buy anything. Right now I'm on Prozac, which does...something, I guess, though I'm not sure what beyond burying my sex drive in a steel-lined coffin under 15 feet of cement and making it impossible to lose weight, and Ativan, which I have to keep in my pocket like a rescue inhaler to fight off the near-daily sudden fits of horror over the state of my life.

Together they also flatten me out enough that I can't write for shit, so there's that too. Obviously. At least Ativan doesn't slowly lose effectiveness, lead to dependency and potentially cause brain damage over the long term OH WAIT

tried to register for an anon account to tell my whiny story, but it's been 3 hours and the pw still hasn't arrived, so whatever.

I AM Z S, I HAVE BEEN VERY DEPRESSED

so with that out of the way. i've been pretty bummed since i was 13, but i always resisted medication because i thought it would be sort of treating the symptom (or some intermediary between the cause and the effect) rather than the root problem. and i thought that trying to fix the underlying problems in my life would do more good in the long run - still think that, actually - and there have definitely been periods over the last 15 years where i thought i had sorta figured things out. but man, i can't take it anymore. i can't fake a good attitude anymore, i can't find a positive thing in my life right now. everything is so fucked up. i need help. i'm just...done.

so i'm going to the doctor for the first time in several years, with the intent of asking for a referral to someone who can help. and i'm scared, and BLGALFJAKSLSLDl. ugh, i hate these paragraphs. my best friends starting taking antidepressants in high school, and it really fucked them up. they're all still on them - does anyone ever STOP taking them? - and one ended up killing himself.

part of the reason i've been bummed for the last half of my life is i always feel like my creativity is just draining out of me. every once in a while the inspiration strikes and i can do something but there was a time when it was always on. i'm worried about taking pills and losing the last grasp on creativity that i had, the last thing that made me unique.

i have no idea what i'm expecting anyone to say. none of you really know me, and there's no way i'm going to be able to express my boring situation here, no real reason to, either. i just hate being 27 and still emotionally fucked up, still can't figure things out. i still pass by the greyhound station and have that thought of just taking off for anywhere else.

if you can't take it anymore, then yeah maybe you should try medication.

creativity ebbs and flows, but i doubt that being paralyzingly depressed is good for it.

anyway, you seem like a good guy, so good luck

Hey man the thing is sometimes the underlying problem is the thing that antidepressants are supposed to be for. Starting on crazy pills can suck a lot for some people but it doesn't mean it will have to suck for you (it didn't suck for me, for instance), and if you are straightforward about your situation with the people in your life and here on the internet you will get support. I guarantee you that there is someone you know who takes or has taken psych meds and you don't know about it and don't know that they've ever been depressed/anxious/bipolar or godforbid psychotic/schizophrenic.

A good GP will refer you to a good shrink, and a good shrink will recommend therapy as well as pills, and will schedule follow-ups for a while to check on your dosage and side effects and stuff. Getting in the system is the hardest part of this bullshit, and the system itself can be really awful for a lot of people but it sounds like you want to feel better and you have an appointment so that's a good start. Hang in, be ready to put in the work. You can do this.

part of the reason i've been bummed for the last half of my life is i always feel like my creativity is just draining out of me. every once in a while the inspiration strikes and i can do something but there was a time when it was always on. i'm worried about taking pills and losing the last grasp on creativity that i had, the last thing that made me unique.

that was a lot of why i resisted going on meds until i was about 27 -- that there was some elemental part of me that would be gone if i went on anti-depressants. And, I think certain aspects of my creative work changed -- i wasn't as depressed, wasn't as angry -- but the creative impulse didn't go away.

Are you in the NYC area? Want to start a band? Do you play anything? Sometimes I get the creativity draining feeling, like I need something new that is stimulating and inspiring. Maybe it comes down to getting stuck in a routine or seeing the same places everyday, and needing to break out of that in subtle/healthy ways if nothing else.

thanks silby. i just have an appointment with some family doctor primary health care physician. i've never met him before, i hope he is sympathetic.

it's the uncertainty that is killing me here. yeah, there's a chance that things will go smoothly and next year i'll be like the "keep on truckin" guy. there's also the chance that i'll be more miserable and have horrible side effects on top of that. my current emotional state is not healthy, but it's really predictable. i know how things work, i can get to work and home.

there's no real good response to that, i don't think...it's just a risk, i guess. it just seems weird to fuck with your brain's chemistry like this. antidepressants have been around for a while, but in the larger scheme of things they are a tiny blip on the timeline.

wish i was evan, i'm in dc. was recently thinking about putting out a lame craigslist ad and seeing if anyone likes wire and wants to play in a storage unit

well, i would think/hope that a good psychiatrist - if you choose to go on meds - would start you off at a low dose and would suggest meds that have the fewest significant side effects -- of course, brains are different, so there's no guarantee what will work best -- it's still trial and error.

Z S, you're doing the right thing, and mookie is basically otm... If anything the depression you're feeling now is probably no better for your creativity, so if you've explored the alternatives and found them wanting, maybe the medication route is the way to go. There's no shame in grabbing for the handrail.

Full support from this corner, friend <3

so if you've explored the alternatives and found them wanting

i don't know if i have...i mean, i've tried meditation, briefly (fail - couldn't get internal voice to stfu), i've been unable to force myself to exercise more, or at all (i've been talking about it for...3 years now?)

the thing with meds, is that the internal voice doesn't automatically stfu -- if they work well, they just give you the power to beef with it better and eventually it doesn't always "win" or the stupid shit it says gets less stupid, or you develop the tools to killfile it.

i guess it's a good thing that the internal voice doesn't go away - i mean, that's ME thinking, i don't want to kill off me. and part of the problem, i think, has come from being too good at shouting it down or whatever. i feel like i spend most of my alone time engaged in stupid arguments with myself, repeating things..

i want to get back to the days when my alone voice wouldn't present the most cynical view possible, but would instead be like "hey, try to do something that's never been done" or whatever

hey Z S, I'm pulling for you. get this sorted out soon, mang.

Hey ZS, depression is shitty. FWIW I have a couple things to say. I was on some dift pills for my mood, incl. anti-depressants, for five or so years. They are not as scary or as great as they seem: meaning they do not fix all your problems, but they can help make things better. They aren't free of side effects, but they don't fundamentally change your true self or something equally nefarious.

In my experience – they didn't really have a negative effect on my creativity (or my creative productivity). That may vary from person to person? But if I was feeling super depressed & shitty they would be like a catalyst, reducing the activation energy required to actually feel capable of starting/doing something. Like that is always my problem, the getting started. Which sometimes is creative block and others was just depression (could not be motivated to do anything).

You can quit taking them. Some people stay on them a long time (lifetime?), others stay on them for much shorter a time. If you work with a doctor on figuring out the right time to quit taking them, and also how to quit taking them, it is totally possible to leave off anti-depressants (tbh there are a few doctors out there who think they are forever things so maybe make sure you trust the philosophy & practice of the pros you are working with). I stopped taking them Sept. of '09 and I have been fine since. Though if I ever got in a point in my life where they might be needed again I wouldn't be averse to it as an option.

Also, being emotionally fucked up sucks and makes life a pain, but, it doesn't make you a bad person. It is ok to be depressed or have depression.

Also this is just my opinion, I am not an expert, please do whatever you feel is right. I liked what Mark Vonnegut said in his last book, about the medical model of mental health being at least freeing in one sense because it absolves you of personal guilt blame (eg from years of trying to find or fix an 'underlying cause' but still feeling depressed).

(it's hard to honest and accurate about something so personal and important) That said. Pills saved my life, then fucked my life up worse, then a combination of the right pills and a consistent talk therapy relationship put my life back to the point it was before everything went wrong. It took years. Be careful, but don't suffer needlessly. I don't know. A therapist, possibly in combo with a prescribing Psychiatrist. fucking paying attention but not being obsessed.

make the journey a comic diary. Invent a new form of interaction in the process.

Z S, you sound like you're basically me a few years ago, right down to "if I started my Wire-esque band this would improve." Similarly trying to shout it down by achieving something, I ended up starting a grad program in a creative field and pretty soon was close to failing out because I couldn't deal with the stress. Finally got to the point where I had to at least try antidepressants, and for me it was 100% worth it. Didn't lose my creative drive, didn't turn into a pod person, was pretty much the same except without the incessant 2nd voice in my head talking shit to me. Even better, while I am off them now the depression since hasn't ever been as bad as what it was for nearly 20 years of my life-I think in part because having lived without that voice I can see how automatic and unjust it (and the behavior it prompts) is.

Yeah, I know not everybody is that lucky-I've known those people too. And I'll echo Abbbottt and sarahel and say that a) it's not a magic bullet that solves your life and b) every case is going to be different. But I do want to at least counter some of your rationalizations-especially as far as that 2nd voice. If it's anything like mine, that thing is a part of you only in the sense that a tumor is-just because it's "part of you" doesn't mean it has the right to screw things up for the rest of you. Sure, there's risk, but I'd take it in the same spirit as any other factor that was making you sick-it's worth trying to fight it.

that thing is a part of you only in the sense that a tumor is-just because it's "part of you" doesn't mean it has the right to screw things up for the rest of you
otm

A thing I was thinking about.

I used to fear that being sober, and not being depressed would somehow turn me into a Christian. I didn't want to be the kind of happy positive right thinking choir singing calm reasonable piece of shit I was raised to magically turn into. I wanted my anger rage fury perversity. I didn't want to control my thoughts. I wanted to be free to think and say and draw or write any fucking thing I felt like.

Whatever, because I never did it anyway. I never became "good" and I never did anything too wrong. I don't do the right thing, but I'm not bad, and I'm still drunk as shit.

I drew way more when I was in rehab or hospital.

just a quick follow up. I occasionally post things. They seem worth saying at the moment. Then I have anxiety because I randomly drunk blurted. It's a thing that happens.

Take some anti-depressants. Don't take them for too long. Don't let anybody convince you to take anything related to a anti-psychotic (risperdal, seroquel) for any reason (bi-polar, sleep disturbance, anxiety etc.) That crap is a scam that will make you a fat diabetic. (in theory, my theory, but not my actuality)

The ssri will make orgasm hard to achieve, Welbutrin (different receptor) may cause you to cum in your pants after a work urination (often)(total two trips to the urinal situation).

Mania from paxil or something may make you crazy and violent. Benzos are great. (but you lose your inhibitions and doctors think you are drug-seeking, and offer you and alternative that could be dangerous)

Celexa has horrible withdrawal and starting up sensations. Like electrical impulses up your body (not in the good way).

Thoughts happen inside your head and lead to emotions and the emotions lead to further thoughts and then actions must be taken. You got to work all that out, but you got to be sure you are paying attention to the right thing at that moment.

I was so fucking bummed at work recently that I acted like a bastard to people and then arranged an extra day off. What's cool about my life now though, is that the only fall out from that is a wake up call re my mental state, and a drunken tmi session on the internet.

:D

am starting to overdo the sertraline just cos I kno it'll get me more fucked up but i'm thinking it might make me be wanting to drink more?

wd rock some sizzurp

srsly it's not like i was that useful without it anyways

OK, here's some good news. My partner has been on Citalopram since early January, with a side-order of cognitive behavioural therapy. He's been lucky: after two weeks of start-up side effects (fatigue, drowsiness, random anxiety attacks) followed by a suspiciously manic (and easily seen through)happy-happy-happy Week Three, he plateaued out and has been doing amazingly well. I'd even go as far to say that, in the 26 years that we've been together, I've never seen him in such fine spirits. And after such a long, slow slide into depression over the past five years - so slow as to be imperceptible, when you see someone every day - it just feels wonderful to have him back.

really pleased for you mike :)
you're right that the slide can be slow and long. i have faith in medicine but the getting of good therapy can be a much harder proposition

There's clearly been a massive health service initiative re CBT, at least in our area. When I was referred in late 2005, the NHS waiting list was about 18 months (so I saw one of the NHS practitioners privately instead). Whereas in K's case, he only had to wait three weeks. I guess they've realised that CBT is quick, cheap and effective, and hence worth investing in.

i am a fan of CBT but doesn't seem to be available round our way except thru prison service/probation. "Stinking Thinking" rings v. true

plus DAMMIT I DON'T WANNA BE WELL

Just an update from last time: I've been on these things for about 4 months now and it's just been in the last month that they've really started to work on a more than 50% basis. It's been helpful. My psychiatrist has been encouraging me to use therapy in conjunction with the drug, and I'm starting to think I might do that.

There are a lot of external things in my life that suck and they still bring me down and stress me out. But I think my reactions to them are more appropriate now. When some bullshit goes down at work, I'm more likely to come home and enjoy time with my family than bury my face in a pillow.

thanks abbbottt, bentelec +others for the helpful advice.

i know that turning into a zombie isn't a certainty. but just the fact that it's possible is scary. the varieties of SSRIs and their effects on the brain, and the uncertainty involved...it's terrifying.

sorry, i'm just repeating myself, drunk yet again. ii just hate that it's come to this.

IMO SSRIs alone are not enough to kill your inner being (except sometimes that part of you responsible for ejaculating, apparently).

Once again, you are not a bad person or a failure for considering this as an option! It doesn't make you weak or shitty! ZS could never be a shitty guy.

Z S i sent you an ilxmail

srsly tho u r a valuable person, be well

z_s you are such a rad dude, in so many ways. MVP on ILX imo tbh!!!

if you're this awesome while you're at rock-bottom, just think how awesome you'll be when you've started really tackling this - like others have noted, it's an illness like any other, and sometimes meds really can make a world of difference. but you won't know until you try.

ok, now i'm sorta anonymous, for no real reason

you all are so nice and i wish the world was set up in a way that really rewarded that more consistently

SSRIs alone are not enough to kill your inner being

from age 0-25 or so, even when i was pretty depressed for long periods of time, it was really tough to keep my creative exuberance down..it was really my lifeline and i depended on it to get me out of the worst situations. over the last 3 years or so it's dwindled down to almost nothing. i feel so fragile in the first place right now, i don't know how to handle it if that last bit gets destroyed

hey just emailed you

The ssri will make orgasm hard to achieve, Welbutrin (different receptor) may cause you to cum in your pants after a work urination (often)

uh i have not experienced these symptoms fwiw

Wowsers

I may have been wrong about the Welbutrin, it could have been the Lamicatal. It is all a blur.

To bummer, nothing involved with getting better actually changes your core being. Better is actually better.

A me that isn't regularly exhausted from booze, or a Me that isn't mentally obsessed with mental obsessions, won't be a different person. I won't suck or be boring because I'm well rested and content. I can still get angry, laugh, mock, support, love, or all the other things used to do or wished I could do.

Convincing myself now, but I'm only posting it because I've dug your posting from a distance for a while now.

Z S, I don't have much to say really but I'm in pretty much the exact same situation as you right now and-- I don't know. It's this thing.

i've spent a while disliking the whole uncertainty of it, the this-might-help-or-might-do-nothing-or-might-fuck-me-up-utterly. but recently more and more i've been thinking, well at least i would feel like i'm doing something about it, rather than just circling around my own sadness? i'm just so fed up with it.

Zachary OTM.

Prescriptions for anti-depressant drugs such as Prozac rose by more than 40% over the past four years

If I had more money, I would not have several of the problems that have stressed me out to the point of seeking treatment for depression.

Oh man I just lost a longish post which instead of recomposing I will reduce to: ZS you are cool dude and I am sending good thoughts your way; fear not the SSRIs--they are overprescribed, yes, but also overdemonized; clinical depression with a biological underpinning is no more a character flaw than Huntington's or ALS; clinical depression is by definition unproductive and ain't gonna help you get creative shit done.

also, Abbott (and others) otm.

Yes, totally. I've been on an SNRI for the better part of a decade with nearly no negative side effects.

i've got some in my bedside drawer left over from when i felt better a couple of years ago. the slide that mike-t-diva and nv mention a few posts ago: i think i've hit it again. might be time to use a med other than beer. :(

Yeah, my partner has to go easy on the booze now. He still drinks every evening - it's fundamental to his identity! - but he stops short of getting drunk, because he can feel the subtle depletion of his mental reserves the next day. So I often get the second half of his third glass of wine. I call this "fringe benefits".

I've had periodic bouts of serious depression (well, pretty serious, never remotely suicidal or anything) for almost 17 years now. I took Zoloft for like a year at the outset but never felt like it did anything except cause bad physical side effects, so that soured me on drugs for a long time.

I always chalked it up to feeling like a huge failure for fucking up college my first time around and for eventually moving back to my home town to finish school and for my wife to get her PhD. A couple times a year I'd get in a huge funk, just severely negative and dark and massively self-loathing and I hated it. I always told myself it was situational, that it would end when we finally moved and I got a real job instead of people merely tolerating me before I'd eventually be exposed as a fraud.

We moved almost five years ago and for the first couple years it was great - I was happy, got a job I like, can take classes for free, started to do art stuff again after repressing it for years, bought a house, felt like a real adult grown up and everything. But then I got depressed again, same shitty feelings of worthlessness and failure and so on.

I started taking Welbutrin about a year ago and saw a therapist for a while. Therapy never really helped me that much - I don't have any real serious issues in my life, though it did help me sort of sort out my relationships with my mom and sister and made me realize that the problems there are not my doing. My therapist also recommended meditation but that just dosen't work for me; I just can't zen out and turn off my brain no matter how hard I try.

Welbutrin has helped a lot - it didn't magically solve all my problems, and I don't feel wonderful all the time. But when shit gets rough and I start to feel down, I don't fall into the crazy dark hole that I used to - I can deal with it, put it in perspective, and not lose a week to feeling dire and hopeless. I don't feel that my creativity has suffered all that much, though I do admit to not feeling the occasional manic binges of crazy inspiration that I sometimes had before. But I'm happy to give those up for a more stable, sustainable existence without major bouts of feeling horrible about absolutely everything.

This past year has been seriously crazy in most other ways. My wife is going up for tenure this summer, which is a major stressy thing for both of us. We've also been dealing with fertility issues which involves spending lots of money to find out that we're never going to have a baby on our own, and will have to drop thousands and thousands of dollars on IVF or adoption fees if we want to have a kid - all while my sister, my cousin, and my wife's best friend have had babies in the last nine months. In the past I would have gotten seriously depressed about any of these things but now I feel like I can put them in perspective and realize that in general my life is pretty good.

When I was on anti-depressants I felt like I was not being as creative as I wanted, but this makes me kind of "???" now, because I had been too sad to do anything creative before taking them, and I have like 3x as much (admittedly mostly unfinished) music from my 2 years on zoloft as in all 8 years since

(I made some bad decisions in that time which soured me on the antidepressant experience and really held up my recovery, but if I am honest that is not down to the pills, and making any decisions at all was probably a step ahead of where I was beforehand; did have some mildly worrying side-effects, but if that happens to you just keep trying and see if you can find a brand which doesn't)

anyway, everyone who is sad on this thread is good people, my fingers are crossed for you all

thanks for all of the support, it really helps.

part of my apprehension about the whole thing just comes down our health care system, unfortunately. i've had health care through my job for the past couple years, but this is the first time i've actually been to a doctor in forever. i had to choose a primary care physician, and next friday will be the first time i see him. i'm just going there for a "check-up"...and then, when he asks me how i'm feeling and stuff i'm supposed to bust the depression-bomb on him and try to convince him to refer me to a therapist? or will he send me straight to a psychiatrist who might give me drugs, without therapy? or is there a chance that he'll be like "you're not that sad. eat some yogurt and watch a comedy, and check back with me in a month." or something?

That's a pretty good fear to have.

I recently fell on the back deck during the ice storm and had a feeling like someone had shot me while I was wearing a bullet-proof vest. Turns out, there was inflammation on one the rib cage where it goes from cartilage to bone. This guy gave me a prescription for high-octane Alleve.

Sunny had the right answer. "Instead of spending $10 at Walgreens, why not just get an OTC box of Alleve and take double the dosage?" I wasn't looking for freaking methadone, but I did feel like I got the write-off.

So if I was ever to go this guy for a referral, he'd probably just give me a prescription for some high-octane Celestial Seasonings and say, there. we're done. Tell your insurance company my name has an 'a' and not an 'e' when they don't write the check.

The real question about the health insurance, is the nature of your plan. Do you actually have to use a primary physician as a gatekeeper? Some HMO plans require that, some PPO don't. If I wanted to see a psychiatrist or therapist now, I would have to go through a separate website or psych to find someone in my network, or possibly call the nursing line.

A primary care physician may just write you 30 days of Prozac. I don't recommend that course, but I would assume he is required to allow you an appointment with a Psych if you claim symptoms or express a need.

Once you have an appointment with a Psychologist (therapy)or Psychiatrist (meds, probably not therapy), they will be able to send you to their counterpart in your plan that they work with if necessary.

If you have to start with a primary physician, though, then that's where you have to start.

It's also okay to just go in and dump all this doubt and confusion about what to do on the P-Doc. You aren't supposed to be an expert on treatment, but/and you aren't required to follow the plan or keep coming back if you disagree.

when he asks me how i'm feeling and stuff i'm supposed to bust the depression-bomb on him and try to convince him to refer me to a therapist?

You probably won't have to do much convincing. I mean, just lay it out like "I don't know what's up, but I've been feeling a little depressed, and I'd like to try x or y or x + y" and I'll bet your primary care guy will be receptive.

I mean, he won't be like "I don't believe in all that sissy feeling shit, ZS. Suck it up and take it like a man."

so this is what i did, which i recognize as not being the "correct" or advisable course or whatever. i had no health insurance. i had a doctor that i would go to maybe once a year, like if i had a problem that needed antibiotics or whatever, and i just paid the cost of the visit out of pocket. so i set up an appointment and told her i was feeling depressed, having trouble getting out of bed, hard to feel like anything was meaningful, etc. i also felt this weird fear that i had to "prove" i was depressed in some tangible way, so (kinda embarrassing to admit this) i went to the appointment dressed shabbily, hair greasy, all that. like, i dressed shabbily and didn't shower due to depression ALL THE TIME normally, but i was really conscious of how childish it was to be like "look at these rags! serious depress-o over here!"

anyway, she prescribed me something herself. i know that you're supposed to do it through therapists and whatever, but i didn't have insurance and didn't see how i was going to swing it. she put me on a lowish dose of citalopram (generic of Celexa), which is on the $4-dollar-a-month list at walmart, and asked me to follow up with her via phone about how i felt. that way i wouldn't have pay for another visit if i didn't need to. the prescription was valid for a year.

my side effects were minor (tendency to get overheated more easily, minor sexual stuff), and the benefits were immediate and life-altering. i think i posted upthread about feeling like a physical weight was removed from my body, allowing me to get out of bed and climb stairs and get out of my desk chair more easily. in terms of my creative/internal life, i don't feel any different. the past when i was angry and deeply sad and hopeless is still there, in my lived memory, and it still influences what i produce today. it didn't get glossed over or rewritten after i stopped feeling hopeless in the moment. and when shitty things happen in my life, i feel like SHIT. but i don't feel as physically depleted as i once did, and i no longer have that gut-churning fear that something bad has happened and now my life is going to end.

so my vote is go for it. if you can do it the conventional way, that's good; if you can't do it the conventional way, it might still be okay. the point is you're trying, and that's awesome.

My regular doc prescribed Wellbutrin for me, too. I just told him I was feeling depressed and overwhelmed and struggling to get through the days, and I'm pretty sure I cried, and he wrote me a scrip. No psychiatrist or therapist necessary, although I did eventually see a therapist, too, which was super helpful. Wellbutrin was amazing. It basically snapped my brain out of some really horrible habits of thinking and made it so I could cope with all of the things that had been overwhelming me. I stayed on it for three years, then felt like I could come off of it and did. I don't go regularly to a therapist anymore, either, but I have a relationship with one so anytime I need her, I can give her a call. I've never seen a psychiatrist.

If I ever feel that way again, I will be in the doc's office in a heartbeat because feeling that way completely fucking sucked and now I know that I don't have to be miserable.

Sorry to interrupt, but I'll be doing med trials in the imminent future and I have no idea what this entails. That is, do you just off the bat get a prescription and start taking things right away, or is this a more mediated process?

if you're joining a clinical trial, you will be receiving an informed consent form, which outlines the purpose and design of the trial, as well as your rights and responsibilities as a subject. You need to read this thoroughly and ask questions about anything you don't understand before you sign it. Every protocol is different. If the study you're about to participate in is placebo-controlled, you may not get any drug.

Oh no, I'm not going to be testing new drugs for a study or anything like that; I'm going to be trying them out for myself. I just don't know whether its a matter of giving you a piece of paper and saying off you go, or something a bit more closely watched.

so, i went to see my primary care physician on friday to get a referral and here's what happened: despite me marking several of the "DEPRESSION" symptoms on the little form you fill out, and writing "DEPRESSION" as my reason for visiting on the very top, he didn't bring it up. instead he spent all of his time asking me about potential phlegm because i coughed once when i walked in. after giving me advice on vitamin supplements because i look like a disgusting skeleton, he started walking out the door and i had to say "hey, wait a second! um, i needed to get a referral for...uh, not my cough." then i pointed out to him on the sheet how i had marked "DEPRESSION" all over it.

he advised taking vitamins and getting more sun. i asked for a referral, and he asked me for the name of the person i'd like to see. i didn't have one. am i supposed to have one? isn't he supposed to refer me someone? he ended up telling me to go home and find a psychologist/psychiatrist that i'd like to see, and then come back next week and he'll refer me to that person.

is that normal? and also, does anyone have any tips on how to go about searching for someone that's good? and does the person that i'm referred to have to be part of my health care network plan in order to get a discount, or can it be anyone?

jesus, dude, that fucking sucks. being depressed = finding it close to difficult to reach out for help, so when you do it'd be nice to be met half way by a damn doctor.

yeah sounds kinda like old-fashioned country doctors of my childhood behaviour...feel like yr doctor doesn't quite grasp the concept of 'referral' somehow. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't quite go as planned.

I would think that you should try to be referred in-network, because out of network can be $$$ and at least in-network your insurance might cover some of the costs involved. I've never had to seek out a psychiatrist myself so I don't really know how I'd even go about starting to look for one though...which is where the 'moral support' aspect of my expertise really kicks into high gear :)

no, that really helps! the looking in-network thing. i mean, i guess it's obvious that it has to be an in-network doctor to save money (especially if i'm going to be going to therapy every week or something), but i wasn't sure.

Check yr plan -- every plan is different and you may want to check w/ ins co before you get too deep. You have HMO or ppo?

If you're anything like I am, the prospect of doing this research is enough to convince me that I'm toooootally fine but I don't necessarily think that's a great instinct :-/

Is your primary care doctor an osteopath?

z s if you know people who are in therapy or have been in therapy (and are willing to talk about it) you should ask around for recommendations

btw good job forcing the issue with your doc, if it were me i would have totally chickened out and then done a whole self-loathing thing

is that normal?

Even if it was it is still wrong. My therapist didn't acknowledge my cries for help when it came to my anxiety attacks. I quit going and they "exploded". Now I'm on anti anxiety pills. My first pill was the hardest. I remember looking at it and pondering if it was okay to take something that would radically change me. It changed me. For the better. I don't think I will quit any day soon because I simply need them.

I had massive doubt when it came to seeking help. Same with my migraine. Thanks to my husband and friends I sought help. Do so too. You deserve happiness.

ZS your revival post had this

my best friends starting taking antidepressants in high school, and it really fucked them up. they're all still on them - does anyone ever STOP taking them?

I wrote about this upthread a few years ago so I won't rehash all the details, but I did take anti-dep in high school for a half year after a couple of years of semi regular cognitive therapy. lots of feelings of worthlessness and futility and a heaping tablespoon of social anxiety. meds def gave me a mind frame to give a shit about myself. the process of getting well was long, I would say it took a few years before I didn't have any depressive episodes at all. but it was absolutely instrumental in helping me get better, putting me in a spot where I could cope with life and in time actively enjoy it.

creatively, i've been able to access those old feelings for saddo jams, but having a career has limited the kind of unbridled time I had needed in the past, so I don't know what to say there. my creativity is just channeled elsewhere now, I suppose.

but anyway to youse guys in the emotional trenches, please take care of yourselves, you are too rad to be in such doldrums.

my best friends starting taking antidepressants in high school, and it really fucked them up.

I take'em to stop being fucked up. lol Honestly, some stop, some don't. I am not sure if/when I'll stop. For the moment I enjoy feeling a lot better. I think a part of me doesn't want to stop because I know sooner or later I'll fall back into the black hole.

Is your primary care doctor an osteopath?

just a "family doctor" (manson family?)

z s if you know people who are in therapy or have been in therapy (and are willing to talk about it) you should ask around for recommendations

that's a good idea, but my few close friends in area aren't in therapy, and i'm not close enough to the other people i know to ask about it. a kind ilxor did write to me with a recommendation, but it's out of my non-car transportation area.

people on ilx are crazy nice and helpful with all of this stuff, btw, thank you

there may also be mental health support organizations in yr area that can help with recommendations

The ssri will make orgasm hard to achieve, Welbutrin (different receptor) may cause you to cum in your pants after a work urination (often)(total two trips to the urinal situation).

Wellbutrin made my sex life very awesome in the first month that I took it, but then I doubled my dose* and any positive sexual side effects seem to have left. I very disgruntled about this.

*because I felt the once-a-day dose wasn't doing it for me, mentally.

Oh Jesus Christ. A doctor recommending sun and vitamins for depression should really go fuck himself back to the 1910s. Not to say docs should just throw scripts at everything either but fuuuuuck.

Yeah, don't mind that turkey.

That's why I asked if he was an osteopath.

xp I'm bipolar, so my relationship with meds is a little different than most of yours, but I plan to be on my antidepressants and lithium-or-whatever-antimania-pill-they-come-up-with for the rest of my life. I will not go back to the way I was.

At least a doctor in 1910 would've offered some cocaine and snake venom!

mmm snake venom, stupid Pure Food and Drug Act

And lithium. You'd have died eventually from an overdose, but you'd feel much better in the meantime.

Perhaps a nice radium suppository...

Uh but this sucks, Z S, sorry you had to deal with such an unhelpful doctor.

i'm hoping i just have to see him one more time (next friday), and then never again.

if your health insurance thing is anything like the setup at kaiser, you should def change your primary GP. he does sound pretty awful.

Hey ZS try checking your healthcare provider's website...usually they're set up to be able to see in-network practitioners in your area for the particular health concern you have....it might give you at least some names to start with, maybe? Depends on the provider, but they are usually pretty on top of providing general info like that to members,

ZS that was a shitty experience and not typical NME. I'm so sorry you had bad luck of the draw on that. I know a good practice offering both psychiatrists for med therapy and psychologists/social workers for talk therapy/CBT, but they are in Rockville. Let me know if you want details. You could also try another primary care doc, one who doesn't suck.

Does your job have an employee assistance program? All of the companies I have worked for had that, and it was an excellent hookup to totally free care (up to a certain number of visits per year).

My employers have always offered a 24-HR TOLL FREE HELP LINE. THANKS, EMPLOYERS.

My job offers health benefits...and the premiums for the lowest tier would soak up three-quarters of my wages.

Was prescribed Prozac last week; due to circumstances i've ended up starting it after drinking 6pints of beer today. What can I expect after a (probably) inauspicious start?

today? fuck-all, most likely. Maybe a nap attack?

it takes weeks for prozac to kick in, so i wouldn't worry about it

entering my second week of buspar (added to lexapro). it hasn't kicked in yet, but i do feel tireder.

four weeks

Waking up 2hours earlier than usual it seems. Lol at getting anxious about taking drugs that will stop me getting anxious.

give everything four weeks before you judge

Thanks, this is the first time i've taken meds (if that's not obvious), i was just a bit nervous about it.

I understand being nervous, it is a big step, but a good one. :-)

I got a lot of weird dizzy spells when I first started taking Prozac, especially if I had alcohol. They went away after a bit.

This is going ok! Some insomnia at first, and I really should drink less, but yeah, it's helping. I wish I'd done it years ago :/

wonder how geoff's doing these days

i have been taking Remeron and i think it's making me feel worse.

the doctor recommended i add buspar but tbh i don't know how comfortable i am with that

if you have persistent insomnia ask about switching your dose to mornings, it can be like your cuppa joe

i always felt like adding meds multiplied my side effects ... two meds, 4x as bad

yea. i'm about to switch my dose to nothing at all. i'd rather be a loony tune than a moody teen. i'm twenty fucking eight.

the other day i started crying because i got coffee on my shirt.

what is the scrip for remeron for? i thought that was for like ptsd or something? if you are just garden-variety depresso that seems a little drastic

ocd/anxiety. it's like, it helps with some of the ocd, but then it makes me a crazy person in other ways.

oh.

how annoying that it is so hard to deal with that shit

its like Benedryl

supposedly at the same time that it increases seratonin it also increases norepinephrine. but it also makes you sleepy soo... i really don't understand.

serotonin regulates sleepiness or is somehow related right?

May I ask a general question about medicines to help w/ focusing? What have peoples' experiences been with Ritalin, Focalin, and the lot? Not strictly anti-depressants, I know

I was given Ritalin for about a week as a child, but I was taken off of it because of constipation, IIRC. I don't remember how well it worked--I doubt it did, because my hyperactivity (which would have been diagnosed as ADHD now) seems to have been nothing but the prelude to bipolar disorder.

hm. i don't need gastric issues.

I have a friend who started taking... hell, it's ritalin or focalin, I think, at around age 30. He's never been doing better and wishes he'd done it years earlier. He had some really mediocre experiences as a kid and thus avoided treatment, which was probably why he kind of bounced out of college pretty quickly around age 20. No major issues, but I know when it wears off at the end of the day he kind of crashes a little hard.

Maybe look into the XR versions of drugs? I take Adderral XR (well not at this moment but usually) for ADD and it works like a charm. I also like that I can just stop it any time I want because there are some times id like to be unfocused and chill. I'm taking a few months vacation from it now and feeling fine if not a little scatterbrained and slightly impulsive. BTW I'm starting to see a real evil side of anti-depressants. I mean if you're clinically depressed and it works then fantastic but it seems like lazy family doctors prescribe this for pretty much any mood/focusing/anxiety disorder first and then if you have your shit together enough to go back to the doctor to complain they start you on a different one or throw something else on top. Meanwhile 6 week chunks of you're life are being wasted wondering when something you know isn't right is going to start working. THEN you end up trying to ween off with brain zaps and insomnia and freaking out on everyone. Anyway for anxiety, focus or anything not directly related to depression my recommendation would be to get to a psychologist who 1. has studied behavioral medicine and 2. is a P.A. so they can prescribe you what you actually need via an MD.

That's the one I was thinking of! Adderal XR.

xps to surm, these sorts of mood changes are things you should be talking to your prescribing physician about, you can discuss options like changing doses or drugs, and also if you just want to discontinue they will give you advice on how to do it in a non-cold-turkey fashion.

Different SSRIs will have v different mileage for different individuals. For me, Prozac started out great but started making me too tired after a few weeks. Switched to Paxil and then had no undesirable side effects on that. Some people have had the opposite scenario. Have frequent follow-ups with your physic or psych dr, give them honest feedback, and be patient.

i take celexa, trazodone and klonopin(when needed). I have Pure O if anyone knows what that is...but they all seem to help in certain ways.

BTW I'm starting to see a real evil side of anti-depressants ... you end up trying to ween off with brain zaps and insomnia and freaking out on everyone.

after almost 15 years on SSRIs, with occasional breaks, i totally agree.

i have been taking paxil for about half that time, and now i am down to about 10 mg/day, which is barely anything, but if i stop i get the worst withdrawal ever. pretty sure i am going to be on this the rest of my life, and pretty sure the "temporary side effects" are now permanent.

so i would really encourage everyone to try to adopt better diet, exercise, nutrition etc and try to wean off whenever you feel ready and rely on positive lifestyle instead of drugs

May I ask a general question about medicines to help w/ focusing? What have peoples' experiences been with Ritalin, Focalin, and the lot? Not strictly anti-depressants, I know

― remy bean

my experience was that these were highly habit-forming, so be careful

also quite tempting to abuse, esp when feeling manic-anxious about mounting responsibilities

would not try without regular check-ins with a health care professional (therapist or psych or whatever)

of course ymmv, due to poor choice of college friends, i am pretty much always tempted to pop pills if they're around

I'm always annoyed by the reliance on my memory, which is terrible anyway. I missed my meds 2 days ago (venlafaxine, lithium, diazepam) and I still feel disconnected - lots of brainzaps, over-emotional reactions, sense of 'other-bodiness, I never regret starting my meds, things are much easier now, but they are a real pain in the ass.

does anybody who has been on Paxil know/remember if sleep-inducing cold/allergy meds like benadryl reduces Paxil's effectiveness?

xps to surm, these sorts of mood changes are things you should be talking to your prescribing physician about, you can discuss options like changing doses or drugs, and also if you just want to discontinue they will give you advice on how to do it in a non-cold-turkey fashion.

― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 17:14 (1 hour ago)

yes i am doing this. i just needed to vent bc i feel like woah. thank you though.

venting is good too!

sarahel i don't recall anything like that though i only take benadryl for a day or two at a time when i am stay-at-home sick (maybe 2-3 times a year?)

i just remember 3 years ago being sick and swearing off regular allergy/cold meds - i don't remember if it was because i got super depressed and thought they were counteracting the Paxil. I hardly ever get sick.

Benadryl, and some other antihistamines, actually have a minor SSRI effect!

In the 1960s, diphenhydramine was found to inhibit reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin. This discovery led to a search for viable antidepressants with similar structures and fewer side-effects, culminating in the invention of fluoxetine (Prozac), a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI).

wow, really? i was on like 50mg of Benadryl for a week recently. So fucking miserable!

I only ever take it in the late evening/night since it makes me woozy, but yeah, benadryl can definitely mess with brain function. I have an often-repeated idea that a shot of whiskey and two benadryl beats nyquil any day (Nyquil being basically an anthistamine and dxm in an alcohol base).

i am quite familiar with your idea, mh!

benadryl is no ambien, but you get some entertaining effects if you stay up with that combination

Benedryl alone knocks me out very reliably. When my wife was pregnant, I took it every night because she was up squirming around and itching and complaining. Sorry if that was wrong.

poor woman! she couldn't take anything

pregnancy hormones are a hell of a kick to pretty much all chemicals

my mom said she got a whole new outlook on things after being pregnant -- she was a lot less depressed/anxious than usual

trazodone and klonopin(when needed).

how are you conscious right now? These two are the only drugs that take me down and out in minutes and ive never thought to mix them.

careful w/ the klonopin

i fell asleep at the wheel once after taking a klonopin and drove off the road onto a berm. stupid i know, thank god nobody got hurt. apparently i missed a bicyclist by yards.

i fell asleep at the wheel on klonipin twice in one 15 minute trip to work about a month ago! i thought xanax was the big mean benzo every doctor feared prescribing.

woah.

the first time i ever drove with my parents in the car, I had taken a klonopin.

wtf, don't take benzos and drive

in my case i actually took one at midnight to help me sleep, got up at 5:30 am and fell asleep driving at about 6:45

so yeah, be really really careful

xanax is just right for me; klonopin is like woah, too much.

re attention drugs/stimulants, i don't like getting that jittery. coffee helps me get where i need to go, and it's easier to find a dosage that works.

mh, it was definitely a circumstance I didn't want to be in! I was 16 and had just started driving with an instructor that week. I was at a friends house (who had given me the klonopin) and called my mom for a ride across town to another friends house.

When she got there to pick me up, she was basically, "Surprise - I'll let you drive the car, kkvgz! Let's see how you do, slugger!" So I did it and just took every ounce of care that I could muster. She was very enthusiastic about my driving skills when she dropped me off, so I must have pulled it off, but I've never wanted to repeat the experience.

aww :(

I feel bad for that whole experience, that is just kind of a downer.

Oh yeah, I mean adolescent prescription drug abuse in and of itself is a downer, but then you factor in my super-supportive mom... So many times did I make her cry.

So, I've just picked up a prescription for Sertraline. Feeling like I might be about to make a big mistake.

Started taking Effexor this summer, and am now on 150mg a day. There haven't been drastic changes in one way or another, but this has been the first summer in God knows how long that has been free of crushing ennui and regular mood swings. I'm also no longer anxious in most social situations.

And all the while no side effects; I'm still 100% the same person, but with some of the rough edges smoothed out (and as far as creativity goes, this summer has seen an unprecedented amount of creative output).

I've been having the worst problem remembering to take my wellbutrin lately. It's like it's functioning so well that I forget it's there, then I forget to take it for a day or two. It definitely gets my mood off-kilter. I didn't remember this morning until I saw this thread at the top of SNA!

emil.y, hang in there, keep tabs on your mood, call your doc if things get weird or the side effects are concerning, read your PI sheet, and tell someone you can count on that you are starting SSRIs and that they should call your doctor if your mood gets dramatically worse somehow. Don't skip doses, don't expect things to feel different right away, don't be alarmed by mild side effects like dry mouth or the occasional nap attack or what have you. You have taken an important positive step for dealing with your shit. Have courage.

hey you know what, when I got home with my first scrip for an SSRI (not Sertraline but Citalopram) I sat down and searched ILX to see if anyone had talked about the experience of starting SSRIs. It seemed like no-one had, particularly, maybe because after you've started you quickly forget what the first few days were like, since you're concentrating on comparing your current mood with whatever it was you felt like before starting. I registered this account specifically to fill that gap, even, but didn't get around to it until now.

What I did before starting was get a diary-type notebook and write in it
- my basic antidepressant pro/con list
- what I could remember of what the doctor said when prescribing
- a kind of short summary of my current behaviour and what I wanted to be different - not what I was feeling, not what was wrong with me, no deep-seated reasons. Things like 'I can't stop myself crying' or 'I don't want to leave the house because it is so much work to be cheerful and talk to people' (but not e.g. 'I am lazy and I am just using being depressed as an excuse'). I tried to keep it dispassionate and absent of judgement, whether positive or negative, because I didn't want to get stuck wallowing. What I wanted was a baseline I might be able to compare myself with later, and value judgements would have clouded that.
- the common side-effects from the information sheet inside the pill packet (because I was convinced I was going to get all of them). I didn't copy out the uncommon ones because they were a bit too comprehensive; I made special note of the serotonin syndrome symptoms.

For the next couple of weeks I kept the book as a diary, trying to work out if I could identify what sort of effects it was happening and whether it was a good idea or not.

What happened in the first few days (taking 10mg):
- I stopped crying (having cried daily for perhaps three months previous).
- I was more talkative but had a bit of aphasia.
- I had odd sleep patterns but that wasn't much different from before.
- On the second and third days I had a kind of airy vaguely nauseous feeling, naggingly familiar. Finally, noticing in the mirror how dilated my pupils were, I identified it: I felt like I was coming up. For two days. It was weird. (I still have the dilated pupils.) I felt happy, on the third day. That was weird as well.
- The fourth day was bad (I didn't cry but I felt sickeningly hopeless). The fifth day was better.
- Thereafter it levelled out somewhat.

I was very lucky to have quite mild side effects: aphasia, loss of concentration, bit of extra shakiness. I was also lucky that citalopram suited me, though it didn't really feel like it was working until I was on 30mg (and the day I went from 20mg to 30mg was horrible). I want to be off it again, and think I could be, but apparently I have to wait until it's been six months of a stable dose before I can try.

I don't know how different one SSRI is from another; this was just my experience of going from zero to SSRI'd-up. It wasn't too bad.

hope this helps etc

Oh, and: I am not by any means fixed but I am at least more functional, like this.

My first couple weeks of citalopram weren't quite as dramatic but slightly similar. I started to notice that the level of mental noise I had got turned down, almost to the point I felt a little slow at first, but that definitely disappeared. I also had a little bit of a headache and for about a week it felt like there was a lump in my throat.

tbh, I think I started on samples of lexapro and switched to celexa as it was more insurance-approved.

I used to take Citalopram, and know many people for whom it works. It wasn't so great for me though. Now I take 300mg Effexor (along with 1200g lithium, but I'm sure I'm much bigger than you), and it works well - though in the past week I missed 2 doses, and it has been a really shitty week. Anyway, I hope you've found the right meds for you! Good luck.

for people having trouble remembering to take their meds consistently, i've used a free account at Health Month to remind me. it's one of those "change your health habits as if it were a game" things. i have my whole nighttime routine set as rules on there: take meds, brush teeth, floss, etc, and the last thing i do before turning off my computer is go on the site and mark that i've done them. they send you a daily reminder email at a time of your choosing, too. a bit nerdy but it's worked well for me.

so wait, it shows up on the leaderboard when you forget to floss? that's brutal.

anybody read this? http://www.amazon.com/Medicalization-Society-Transformation-Conditions-Treatable/dp/080188585X

had it for awhile but haven't gotten around to it

a good friend of mine is prescribed xanax and was prescibed an anti psychotic at one point but i dont know if he still takes the anti psychotic meds or not (i believe he doesnt)....but anyway, he drinks a shitload of coffee each day to keep the drowsiness of the xanax at bay. is this right? i mean im not sure for certain i dont meet him that often these days as he lives in another town but i think he may be taking more that his required dosage.

xpost i would read that book

michael it's really hard to say without being a professional whether that's right or not. "shitload of coffee", "drowsiness" etc are kinda subjective.

which is not to say it doesn't sound like a red flag, but that he could be drinking shit tons of coffee each day because he's anxious, he could be drowsy because he's not sleeping right, etc etc

Could be anxious because of the coffee!

My partner's first two weeks on Citalopram (20mg) were heavy on side-effects, in particular on anxiety/panic attacks. In his third week, he had a kind of manically cheerful phase, which he recognised as not fully real. After that, things plateaued and he's been doing great for the past few months. It suits him very well. But in common with sunday driver, I thought: wow, this is like coming up, but in super-slow-motion.

Went back to the doctors today to get another prescription (they only gave me 30days to start with, and wanted me to go back to see how things are), saw a different doc to last time, which I was expecting as the one I saw last time was a locum, and she said I should try and see one of the permanent ones but they seem to be fully booked for the next few days and it was easier just to go with whoever came up today. This guy seemed a lot more 'suspicious' about me, and I started to feel like there wasn't really anything wrong with me, which is the reason it's taken me so long to seek any treatment in the first place. I've had another month's worth (at the same dosage) but they want to see me again, though they did give me a repeat prescription form so hopefully I won't get all anxious about booking an appointment and run out of pills.

Anyway, I've not really had much in the way of side-effects. A couple of times I've experienced an amazing sense of emptiness in my head, where there's usually a sort of deadweight of nothingness happening, but idk, I find my moods are kind of heightened.

It's just occurred to me that I'm mainly (irrationally) annoyed with the inconsistency in doctors.

- out of refills
- went to see the pusherman
- spent not quite one day's wages for 15 minutes of his time
- he's a decent guy, if wrinkly
- i was not totally forthcoming
- he recommended that i go on dates
- thx bro

Total forthcomingness can't hurt, is the thing.

Also as a counterpoint to some of these experiences, mine (of 20+ years) has been very positive--thanking u pharmaceuticals, u help me operate like folks with normal brains/endocrine/hormonal systems.

i've been on cymbalta for a while now. it has worked out reasonably well for me. i still get in a state from time to time, but i'd say it's a lot more manageable. the big thing for me is anxiety, especially over the tinnitus i developed a few months ago that doctors are thoroughly confused by as i have perfect hearing. cymbalta has helped me live a normal life even though i am in law school (lots of time trying to sit in quiet and read boring stuff means lots of time to think, which is never a good thing for me sans medication). at first i missed being able to drink on it, but after a while i lost interest in getting wasted.

Total forthcomingness can't hurt, is the thing.

you're right, but i can't really afford experimentation (much less institutionalization lol)

i have never been forthcoming with doctors about how frequently i had thoughts of suicide. the risk of institutionalization always seemed too high balanced against the likelihood that i would actually hurt myself. it felt like enough to just talk more broadly about my depression.

still, though, with your doctor/therapist it's important to open up as much as you feel comfortable with, and then a little more.

Okay, so, end of the second day and I feel quite strange. Being this early on is it just psychological, stemming from my anxiety about being on this stuff?

perhaps. strange how?

Citalopram made me grind my teeth and fucked up my sleep cycle. Rather than mentioning it to doc I just quit taking it, which was prob a mistake.

*swallows bottle of Budeprion*

^^^wanna come clean my apt?

I dunno if I can explain strange how. I guess I'm having tired/not tired phases and my stomach feels a bit off, but my head just feels a bit funny and not quite my own. But as I say, it's only the end of the second day, so I can't imagine it'll have got into my system properly enough to fuck me up... will it?

nah, i wouldn't worry too much. (it doesn't seem to have affected your sleep patterns much amirite!)

perhaps writing down how your head feels funny might be useful, as an exercise. my sense is that no one has any clue how an individual drug will affect an individual person.

Ha, well, my sleep patterns are shot anyway. Actually went to bed quite a lot earlier than usual last night but I was tired from having been out the night before anyway, so I doubt that has anything to do with this stuff.

Writing things down probably isn't a bad idea. I tend to have quite a bad memory, especially for transient states.

I guess I'm having tired/not tired phases and my stomach feels a bit off, but my head just feels a bit funny and not quite my own.

i was on citalopram, so not the same med, but this is similar to how i felt for the first ~5 days after starting. sensitive stomach, alternately tired and alert, and a little distant from the control panel in my own brain -- like when you're driving with the seat too far back, and you have to stretch to reach the pedals. but by my one-week check-in with my doctor it had all mostly faded.

like when you're driving with the seat too far back, and you have to stretch to reach the pedals.

That is such a good metaphor.

i would agree with people that it's totally normal to feel that way when you start something new, but if it doesn't go away or if it bothers you there's no harm in calling your doctor about it.

Ugh. Still feel pretty sick and tired and miserable. The top of my head feels tight and weird, like it could be unscrewed and lifted off like a lid. Hoping this will get better soon.

It will, Emily, soon(-ish). Speaking from experience, it took me two to three weeks to feel relatively ok again, without those weird, dissociative phenomena you too seem to be experiencing. Those sensations can screw with your head; well, they did with me. Not feeling yourself in that period was so.. bizarre. But they go away, they really do. Although I understand "soon" is relative, and you'd rather have them gone yesterday than tomorrow. I think you made the best decision, good luck and take care.

my mom said she got a whole new outlook on things after being pregnant -- she was a lot less depressed/anxious than usual

Wow, my anxiety and depression exploded into a big black hole. Now much better since I take pills. Lately feel a bit more anxious again. But nothing to worry about (hahah).

My doctors screwed up my repeat prescription (again) this year (they have issues with their computer system so whenever I go for my yearly review they somehow don't update to say I've had it and then refuse my medication until I go for my review that I've already had) and since I had lots of Prozac left (I've been on it for 9 years and I think the repeat prescription comes in slightly more regularly than I need it) I didn't bother to fix it until I ran out completely on Thursday. I got an appt yesterday morning and got another month's dose but this doctor wants me to try weaning myself off it since I haven't really been properly depressed for a few years now, but I'm not sure this is going to be a good idea, I only missed my dose for 3.5 days and I was feeling really weird yesterday. I know you go down slowly but yesterday and today I just feel like a zombie. Our electrics suddenly cut out in the middle of the night and I could barely get myself together to call an electrician out this morning. I guess it'll take a few days to replace the missing 3.5 days but argh. Anybody here tried actually getting off SSRIs? I have another appt in 2 weeks with a different doctor but wouldn't mind getting some opinions from people who actually take the stuff.

It's a horrible pain in the ass, but it's not the worst. I went off citalopram, so diff drug but same class. Dizziness, lethargy, and brain shocks (if you don't get these you're sooo blessed) lasted for about 3 weeks, waning pretty steadily. Have a friend/family member/someone you call with updates every day or two, just to be on the safe side. If not that, at least keep a journal of the next few weeks, just to keep track of changes in outlook that can be hard to notice when you're experiencing them.

It's not the end of the world, but it is really gross. Sorry you're going through it.

There is a diff between the experience of v gradually tapering off it w/a doctor's help and just not taking them for a couple days – I really, really recommend the former. If you do it over the course of a couple months it's so subtle that it's much less noticeable.

^^^ Agreed.

I went off Effexor cold turkey once when I ran out in a foreign country. I had all of these "Dizziness, lethargy, and brain shocks" plus headaches and a total inability to read off a computer screen without getting completely nauseous. Made work fun!! I'd def taper if I were you.

I guess I've learned that cold turkey is not v pleasant. It's lucky my manager, project manager and director are all on holiday cos I have done pretty much zero work the last 2 days cos I can't concentrate on anything.

This is all probably pointless anyway because all the other doctors just say I should keep taking it for the rest of my life. Not because I really should, but it's just easier for them, I think. Then they make up some bullshit in my notes, I happened to notice this on the computer screen this week, in my notes from my review earlier in the year it said "unwilling to stop", WTF the doctor said I shouldn't! Not me! I just agreed OK then I'll carry on taking them. Sigh.

stopped the remeron, now he wants to try wellbutrin SR. umm, i'm really not the type of person who could deal well with a seizure? i mean, i can barely deal with the stress of a missed appointment

? do i need to be worried about this?

i was told that wellbutrin would have me, like, cleaning the house at all hours or something

this has not happened

yeah i do that already so i guess imma have a fuckin spotless house

so clean u could have a seizure on it

i was a day late the very first time i had to refill my citalopram prescription, and yeah well after that i learned to KEEP UP WITH THAT SHIT

My doctors screwed up my repeat prescription (again) this year (they have issues with their computer system so whenever I go for my yearly review they somehow don't update to say I've had it and then refuse my medication until I go for my review that I've already had) and since I had lots of Prozac left (I've been on it for 9 years and I think the repeat prescription comes in slightly more regularly than I need it) I didn't bother to fix it until I ran out completely on Thursday. I got an appt yesterday morning and got another month's dose but this doctor wants me to try weaning myself off it since I haven't really been properly depressed for a few years now, but I'm not sure this is going to be a good idea, I only missed my dose for 3.5 days and I was feeling really weird yesterday. I know you go down slowly but yesterday and today I just feel like a zombie. Our electrics suddenly cut out in the middle of the night and I could barely get myself together to call an electrician out this morning. I guess it'll take a few days to replace the missing 3.5 days but argh. Anybody here tried actually getting off SSRIs? I have another appt in 2 weeks with a different doctor but wouldn't mind getting some opinions from people who actually take the stuff.

― The Eyeball Of Hull (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:19 AM (Yesterday)

not sure if someone else has already mentioned this but prozac has a much longer half-life than most other SSRIs (somewhere around 80 hrs iirc); this is why patients are usually told to not worry about making up a isolated missed dose with this drug in particular. three or four days after discontinuation seems like a reasonable time to begin noticing differences. people who have been on prozac for a long period of time (9 years in your case!) should be especially cautious about abruptly stopping it - it's not uncommon to experience a wide array of effects, some of which (anxiety, irritability, lethargy) you might have experienced. whether or not to discontinue - or taper - your dose is ultimately up to you but you should definitely talk to your doctor (or, if you want to save money and probably time, your pharmacist) about what the best course is for you at this point. there's nothing wrong with not being ready to come off prozac at this time, especially if you're not noticing any negative effects from it

stopped the remeron, now he wants to try wellbutrin SR. umm, i'm really not the type of person who could deal well with a seizure? i mean, i can barely deal with the stress of a missed appointment

? do i need to be worried about this?

― surm, Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:13 AM (39 minutes ago)

short answer: probably not. unless you've had a previous seizure disorder, this isn't something that's going to be significant for you in all likelihood. are you on anything else that's similar to wellbutrin?

it might make you really horny though

uh oh

i'm on "buspar" but the doc said it would go well with wellbutrin

just about any antidepressant you're going to be on will lower seizure threshold (ie increase risk of seizure), but not to a degree that's actually going to matter to your life: the risk for wellbutrin is well below 1% if your dose is 450 mg or less. in fact, the risk is even less with long-acting products, which you're on.

ok cool. he wants me to do 200mg sustained release after one 1 week of 100mg, which i guess is not so bad.

(i just took my first one. here's to cleaning and being horny)

I was on Wellbutrin for a minute, keep an eye out for impulsive stuff. Reuptake inhibitors in general are good at reducing the space between thought and action (this is a generalization/simplification), which can be really great for people who tend to over-think every little thing, but can also lead those same people to, for instance, steal things on a whim because why not?

!!!!

omg. well i certainly won't be stealing anything. learned my lesson on that front the hard way. but that's good to know. you know, i do think about EVERYTHING so, it might not be so terrible.

I really think over-thinking basic things is a big part of the depression equation. You end up thinking "why?" or "how exactly?" for things like getting up in the morning or eating three meals a day that other (healthier?) people just do.

I have been on Wellbutrin for almost a year and no stealing or seizures to date. The horniness comes in phases in my experience. Housecleaning motivation has improved from "letting the dishes pile up in the sink" to "doing the dishes every day", but laundry is still an issue.

lol @ having prescriptions for laundry dysfunction

Also re: the sexual side effects is that my feet feel like they're floating after sex.

good thing there's an underwear party in the hood this week.

yeah i haven't really had any of these side effects. perhaps i am actually ingesting folgers crystals

http://www.gifsoup.com/view5/2265017/chris-farley-son-of-a-bitch-o.gif

I really think over-thinking basic things is a big part of the depression equation. You end up thinking "why?" or "how exactly?" for things like getting up in the morning or eating three meals a day that other (healthier?) people just do.

so OTM.

I think I'm still going to give it a go getting off Prozac in a few weeks, just to see how I am without it. Definitely going to be careful about reducing dose.

I'm hankering for some Wellbutrin

Do you have a GP? Are you insured? Need help finding a practitioner who can hook you up?

…wouldn't it be weird if Rx drugs were sold exclusively by shady characters on streetcorners and we called them "practitioners" anyway?

I don't do recreational drugs, so maybe some people do call drug dealers "practitioners".

Ooh now that word is just sounding even more creepy. Like some sort of occultist.

♫ just free-associatin' into a thread ♬

Nah my shrink will hook me up just too lazy to ask right now

haha ok

i'm seeing a psychopharmacologist in two weeks. i should probably ask for this laundry drug everyone is raving about...

i have some spare wellbutrin if you're jonesing

Never had any impulse control problems on the Wellbutrin--if I had, there would have been a massive bloody mess in my brother-in-law's camper the first day I moved in next door.

"Wellbutrin - it won't cause you to murder any affinal relatives"

any protips on wellbutrin and alcohol? i had a fairly typical number of drinks the other night, felt fine all throughout the night, but woke up with a pounder!

you are not supposed to drink alcohol at all with it, according to the bottle.

that said, i haven't have any issues despite a lot of practice.

i have that laundry dysfunction and dirty dishes disease, i have never thought of those things as being treatable with medications

I'm convinced that the warning's there to keep people from going on heavy drinking binges while on it, like depressed people often do. Large amounts of alcohol will counteract the benefits of taking Wellbutrin, but I've never heard of anyone that had any problems with moderate or even moderate-high amounts of drinking.

I was in law school and thus often drunk while taking Welbutrin. Never had any problems beyond what you'd expect in that situation.

I drank a massive amount last night (three shots of Southern Comfort over ice, four shots of that flavored vodka I mentioned in 77, and two beers), and I'm in the same euthymic mood that I was in yesterday. So, I don't know.

i've gone cold turkey off cymbalta and celexa before and really had no discontinuation syndrome side effects. i don't know if that means i wasn't taking enough to begin with or what.

The only drinking effect I've noticed (that seems to have mostly dissipated) with SSRIs is one drink feeling like two, two like two, four like two, until you're suddenly wasted. Hangovers can be kind of bad until you get another SSRI dose in you.

yeah, reduced tolerance is something i've noticed. also, delayed hangovers - but maybe that's just me?

I'm convinced that the warning's there to keep people from going on heavy drinking binges while on it, like depressed people often do. Large amounts of alcohol will counteract the benefits of taking Wellbutrin, but I've never heard of anyone that had any problems with moderate or even moderate-high amounts of drinking.

― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, November 6, 2011 12:27 PM (3 hours ago)

mostly this - combining alcohol with wellbutrin can increase risk of seizures and reduce alcohol tolerance. the former is much less likely to occur but obviously is much more serious, the latter being not life-threatening (at least usually in and of itself) but more commonly experienced. *puts serious face on* you shouldn't drink alcohol while you're on wellbutrin *wags finger* - but that's not a realistic expectation so you should, comme on dit, drink in moderation

I know we have Kevin here but I wld seriously talk to your doctor or your pharmacist abt this. I was on Lamictal for a couple years for mood shit & I assumed the 'no alcohol' warning was a unch of bull, really out of no evidence whatever besides I like drinking and I didn't wake up feeling like I spent the night on the Hindenburg so it must be ok. But a doctor (my ob-gyn actually) pointed out it says that because it makes your body metabolize alcohol in a really different and really dangerous way. Which meant I basically dropped some bombs on my liver and actually got into some very bad personal trouble while drinking. I am the kind of person who attributes trouble to "oh I'm essentially bad" rather than "I should not have been a dumbfuck and combined rx drugs and alocohol" which is why I was probably on meds in the first place, those depressio self-attribution errors. That combined with my drinking habits...I mean shit. What I am saying is talk to a doctor and not some internet drunk like me. The facts are out there but ILX might not be the place to get 'em.

Like at the time before talking to my doctor I would say "oh man yeah I'm on these 3 or 4 meds and I drink and smoke pot all the time but I don't got any problems, live large my friend" but if you look at my life it was problem central. And some of that was defs from combining my rx drugs and my fun drugs! And a lot of it was form other things, but seriously, the whole internet should come with some fucking 1994 blink tag like TALK TO A FUCKING DOCTOR imo. Doctors are sometimes patronizing dicks or sometimes what you're coming in for is their blind spot but they are still more schooled than me. All I can tell you is ask your doctor.

I should note I am only speaking for myself here and not anyone else on this thread.

Mood variations, the type that swing, can swing reeeeally hard when you start blending alcohol in.

abbott 150% otm. i can tell you some stuff about the drugs you're on and drug therapy in general but i'm not your doctor or pharmacist, i don't have access to your chart and cannot (and will not pretend to be able to, or offer to) give you personalized advice. the people who know you best are the people who you're working with irl

i did ask my doc - i was like, i can have a few drinks right? and he said yes no problem. but i'll talk to him again; i have never had much of a stop button when it comes to weekend partying, and i certainly don't want to cause any harm.

yeah I hope you don't think I am railing on you surm :(

not at all! thank you for being honest!

Booze and Paxil can be a rough combo (I've seen ppl on Paxil go from zero to aggressive, blackout drunk in four beers) although that's not universal, either.

I hope I wasn't the one that Abbott was railing on. I actually do drink in moderation (three or four drinks a week is drinking in moderation, right? Please tell me if I am wrong), a big blowout like I had yesterday is rare for me.

The only one I am railing on, my friends, is me five years ago.

thought that was pretty obvious, you're good

Trick here is having a physician/pharmacist who will give it to you straight based on experience and true knowlege of all of the relevant medical literature rather than just defaulting to the easy/safe "yeah don't drink."

i feel like i should probably go back to therapy or up my antidepressant or something

i am having too many of these days where i'm paralyzed with self-hatred and self-doubt and wondering why i'm doing anything i'm doing. i know a lot of people work well with routines, but whenever i feel myself fall into routine this thought pops up in the back of my head like "what is the point of just doing this until i die."

the sun sets and rises over and over again, just as we go through our motions and cycles; it doesn't have to be sad, even though it can certainly feel that way.

plus yeah totally ok to start up therapy again or adjust your meds with your doctor.

made a dr's appointment today myself because I have been leaning on the benzos a lot for the last two weeks so I may need to up my SSRI dosage or something

my tolerance for alcohol (plus lexapro + buspar) is pretty low right now, and i'm fine with that if it means i'll spend less money on booze and ingest fewer calories in the process of getting drunk. the only problem is redness in the face/hot flashes -- i've had those after one margarita or one glass of red wine.

luckily i got my "irresponsible drinking" out of the way in my twenties, and now i don't feel like i have to prove anything to anyone. i respond to those internal signals that say "ok, that's enough for tonight."

for some reason, i can't bookmark this thread.

i just started seeing a therapist -- actually, my employee assistance program referred me to an evaluator therapist who is supposed to refer me to someone to suit my needs and she has yet to get back to me! -- and i can't figure out if i'm actually depressed or not. i had a horrible few months that were kind of really up and down, and then they just kept going down. my 2 sessions with this therapist & talking about it with my friends started to make me feel better, though I still have these ups and downs, and now I'm wondering if I'm depressed at all or if I have some repressed grief that I can just deal with and then I'll feel better.

on the first session, she suggested i try wellbutrin...i was resistant to the idea but coming here, it seems like it'll make things just a little easier. it' not clear to me though if I need that. of course when i'm feeling better, I feel like I don't need it, and when I'm down, I would take anything. these questions about whether i'm authentically depressed, if that can even be a phrase, are themselves causing me anxiety. in part because once i admitted i was depressed, i started talking about my depression as a thing and I had to pull out of a few commitments, and now that i've identified myself as depressed i feel like i'm constantly in the position of having to prove that i am actually depressed. this is probably my own paranoia and guilt here, but it's created this whole new level of anxiety.

my employee assistance program referred me to an evaluator therapist who is supposed to refer me to someone to suit my needs and she has yet to get back to me!my employee assistance program referred me to an evaluator therapist who is supposed to refer me to someone to suit my needs and she has yet to get back to me!

oh, i hate this shit. all the referrals and phone calls and waiting around just make me feel worse.

idk why that pasted twice.

tbh whether you are actually depressed is more a matter for insurance coding than for the reality of life. It's such a vague, nebulous thing, and everyone's experience can vary sooo wildly, it's not really helpful at all to have a rigid depressed/not depressed binary, but that's how medicine works right now.

Just focus on figuring out what will or will not help you, both in the short and long term, and don't worry so much about whether you're 'properly depressed', because it really doesn't matter.

That said, I know what you mean about the guilt. This feeling of "oh hell, who am I to be complaining, now that other person, with less opportunities/parents/limbs, they're allowed to be depressed. I'm just a sad jerk."

yeah -- it's more that i pulled out of a rather large commitment because i could not emotionally handle the intensity required to do the job well, and every time i see these people, i feel like they'll be thinking, "she looks happy. she's just using depression as an excuse and really she's just not committed enough" and blah blah. i am being totally unfair to the people to whom i am referring, but thus is my brain. i have to sit down with one of them soon and explain what happened, and i am just having this imaginary conversation in my head that is not going well. i know the solution is to have the actual conversation, but this is the anxiety that runs through my brain and i think i just had to share.

To whatever extent you can, don't give in to the "I said I was depressed now I have to act like it" thing, it can bring you down far further. Starts a negative feedback loop, essentially.

And oh my god I hate the imaginary conversations so very, very much. Sorry you're going through this.

thanks. i'm sure the convo will go fine. even if not, have to do it. writing in this thread provided the impetus needed to schedule that meeting.

get bent -- yeah, i left a message today checking in. but i'm glad it worked out such that she's not my actual therapist, b/c i didn't like her. i just wish she would get back to me with an actual gd referral.

I went over and over the am I actually depressed or just unhappy loop for years before I gave in and said ok I'm depressed. Of course subsequently I found out half my family has suffered with it one way or another. SSRIs certainly helped me out of it. Now I am on day 1 of coming off them, kinda dreading it but gonna give it a go

good luck!

All the talk about Wellbutrin and alcohol the other day is interesting to me. I just straight-up quit drinking when I first started on Wellbutrin one year ago. For the most part, I haven't missed it much (in part because I'm too poor to drink these days) but there have been occasions where I wouldn't have minded having a beer. In particular, family functions have been even more awkward since my father-in-law, who refuses to remember that I'm vegetarian, also now refuses to believe that I stopped drinking. My psychiatrist had led me to believe that even the smallest bit of drinking would lead to an epic, days-long depressive funk, but it sounds like that hasn't been the experience for anyone here. Maybe I'll humor the old man and have a beer with him next time I'm over there.

Wine seems to go a lot better with Paxil than beer, in my experience.

It's different for each person--it's a matter of trial and error in finding out how much you can drink on Wellbutrin. (The blowout I mentioned earlier did actually lead to a 24 hour depressive funk--but it was worth it. I just thought of it as an extended hangover.)

pdoc is switching me to abilify, pending the results of a couple of blood tests -- this one has a nasty side effect profile, including weight gain, increased blood glucose, increased blood pressure. whooopeeee!

the woman in this ad dresses like i do. i guess i'm the target demo for abilify? along with schizophrenics and severe bipolars?

http://bit.ly/srFoMN

I think Abilify has the funniest name of any drug on the planet. Isn't one of the possible side-effects increased clumsiness?

haha i don't think anything out there could *increase* my clumsiness.

signed,

clumsy mcklutzerton

actually the funniest name is Aciphex ?

bc it is pronouncd like ASSEFFEX

speaking of aciphex, my favorite food ingredient name is asafoetida:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida

(also known as "devil's dung")

Abilify ended up on my list of Prescription medications with Pokémon-like names

About 10 years ago, I was put on a small dose of Risperidal as an adjunct to my Wellbutrin. It worked, and worked better than anything else did prior to the lithium, but I ran out of the samples and couldn't afford the full-sized prescriptions.

doctors have sooo many freaking samples around. the pharma reps are like drug pushers.

Yeah, thank God. They were a lifesaver when I needed meds and was broke.

actually the funniest name is Aciphex ?

bc it is pronouncd like ASSEFFEX

― surm, Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:01 PM (6 hours ago)

close, but it's Acephen - which is just tylenol, but you put it up your ass - clever, right?

Abilify ended up on my list of Prescription medications with Pokémon-like names

― ghost grapes (Abbbottt), Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:56 PM (2 hours ago)

wow great thread

Ok, so I tried this. Two MGDs with pops on top of my normal dose of wellbutrin. I'm not depressed, but I've got a pretty wicked headache for just two beers. Don't know how much is the drug and how much is just not drinking for a while. But the headache does seem more intense than it should.

I am blaming it on the fact that you're drinking MGD
joke

No, no. I mean, I had that thought also. Many variables here.

Just took my first paxil. Worried that I'm going to lose my enjoyment of life and general personality.

If you start actually feeling that way, you're on the wrong drug or the wrong dosage. I'm more myself on pills; they get rid of the thing inside me that stops me from enjoying things.

Should I expect to feel that for the first few weeks regardless? Basically, how long should I expect to feel side-effects like that before I go to the doctor and say something's up? Obv not feeling any of this now, as it's only been about an hour.

I had a great day yesterday, reading and writing and cleaning. It was a gorgeous, crisp day and I went for a walk and listened to an album I was really ~feeling~, and now I'm worried that I'm going to lose that.

nb a lot of this has been from googling and reading message boards, which is just nightmare central.

It took me about three weeks to stop feeling completely fucked and bizarre on my anti-depressants. I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on them, though. They've helped with some of the paralysing anxiety, but not so much with the fact that I want to die and know I'm a shitty shitty person who doesn't deserve to exist. But then I don't want to step up my dosage because I don't want it to take over. As it stands I can just about be me on these things, and drinking hasn't been too bad, but if I take a load more I don't know what will happen.

I'm starting on a low dosage but in a month I should be up to 20mg, which seems like a lot but I dunno. I don't suffer from depression, just a crippling anxiety stemming from physical symptoms that the doctor can't figure out so we're assuming (hoping?) that some sort of anxiety created those physical symptoms that then gave me the crippling anxiety about those symptoms. My life was pretty awesome sauce (for me, anyway) when it all kicked off so I'm hoping I can get back to that.

Gukbe, after an hour, you will be feeling zero different. For the first few weeks, there's a whole universe of possible side effects that you might get to experience. You probably already have a follow-up with your prescribing doctor scheduled. Keep tabs on your mood and your side-effects as time goes on and your serum levels rise. Read the info sheets that came with your medication carefully; take note of the CONTACT YOUR DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY IF section but don't let it worry you (hah!). Tell your friends, or at least one person who you trust a lot, that you are starting drugs and if you start acting really erratically or unusually they should check in with you and call your doctor.

emil.y, what will happen if you increase your dosage is that you might start feeling better. Also you're still not a shitty shitty person and you deserve to exist (even if you would have preferred to be asked first and are not entirely pleased with the whole arrangement). I promise.

Really guys I am intimate with many people who are on or have been on SSRIs and none of them have seemed like zombies. (Full disclosure, the worst thing that happened was a friend with OCD was misdiagnosed as a major depressive and they gave him Wellbutrin which ended up making things rather worse for him for a while.)

The short version is, antidepressants won't turn you into Jack Nicholson at the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Thanks silby. That makes me feel much better about all this.

Well, the main reason I'm not upping my dosage yet is that I've finally got my counselling sessions through so I'm hoping that will help some of the underlying issues. And I have taken the decision to be pretty open about the fact I'm on antidepressants with my friends - I know a lot of them have been on similar stuff for varying reasons and I think it's better that people know than just think I'm being a bit odd.

Gukbe, you're welcome.

emil.y, glad to hear you have counseling coming up. And props for talking to your friends. I decided at some point that I was gonna be as open as I could about my mental illness and how I was treating it; I was surprised by how often just talking about my problems and my pills got other people to do the same thing. It helps in thinking about the problems, and it has the side-benefits of finding you people to commiserate with about pills and fighting the very-real stigma of mental illness.

Hi to Gukbe.

I'm having trouble saying what I'm trying to say here.

Depressed and anxious people that complain exclusively about the effects of their meds on the internet, either have an obvious and fixable wrong med situation happening, or they've improved enough to start picking and choosing.

Starting out by doing the right thing and seeking help, and giving the help the proper chance, is exactly where you ought to be right now. Monitoring your condition objectively with yourself and trained pros, and loved ones will help you with the down-the-line decisions.

I used to worry about turning into a Christian (zombie)(good cheerful helpful person)(sincere)(concerned but optimistic) nope.

also, silby otm.

otm back atcha,

http://www.visitingdc.com/images/zachary-taylor-picture.jpg

I had a few "episodes" when I first starting taking Prozac when I drank a lot of alcohol where I behaved pretty eratically and self-destructively but tbh I've always been a bit of a bad drunk on occasion anyway, and I was taking 40mg instead of the usual 20mg. But I don't know how much that was the Prozac/alcohol combination or just the fact that I was very depressed at the time.

Now I'm on day 7 of trying to come off Prozac 9 years later. Not convinced this is a good idea yet but may as well see what I'm like without it. So far it's been OK apart from yesterday I woke up feeling like a zombie, really woozy all day. Today I'm OK though so far.

Emily, I'm glad that you're going to be seeing therapists. Maybe they can finally get it through your head that deep, dark, black depression is not your natural state. You've basically been possessed by a demon your entire life. You need to learn to live without it.

zoloft. is this going to make me sexually incompetent, bc i can't handle that right now.

the psycho said prolly not but first-hand experiences would be helpful. and not the ones i find on the internet that make me think i'm going to die.

I'm on my fourth or third week of celexa. pretty low dose. has worked wonders. I was on paxil years ago and it was a nightmare, this is a walk in the park. Minimal sideffects, the worst being a kind of general body ache that feels like the onset of flu, but at least I don't want to jump off a bridge anymore.

good for you!!

sexual side effects on paxil were unbearable and awful. but I was also younger and hornier then and more concerned with sex. side effects on celexa so far are pretty minimal, but could be different for everyone, and different for every drug.

No I remember Paxil being the pinnacle of sexual frustration.

yeah well, fuck if i'm gonna mess with that shit. haven't touched the zo yet.

every antidepressant I've ever taken (Luvox, Effexor) has had sexual side effects. IE, delayed ejaculation.

It actually worked to my advantage the last time as my g/f was thrilled that our sessions lasted twice as long, but it could be hella frustrating if you weren't in the mood for an all-night session.

my doc said sometimes they give men with PE zoloft

the problem is with the side effects, sometimes it's not delayed, sometimes it's...just not happening at all. on Luvox, the well dried up for months. hasn't been so bad with Effexor, and I think it's just as much psychological too.

yeahhh.... not happening.

tbh I didn't have that problem with Prozac.

I've been off Prozac for about 2 weeks now after tapering down for 2 months. Still getting brain zaps/wobbles/whatever. Dunno how long this is going to go on for.

What does a brain zap feel like?

I don't know, but the thought scares me, which is why I've never tried to quit Effexor, even with stepdown method.

Kinda sounds like when William Hurt starts bouncing off the walls in Altered States.

i would compare it to being hit in the nads, only not as bad, located in your head, and lasting for weeks

It's kinda like, I guess, suddenly being drunk for a second, and then suddenly sobering up? Or being really dizzy for a second. Or like having a ghost pass through you. It's kinda hard to describe.

I get odd days when I wake up in the morning a total mess, I'm hoping this is just my brain adjusting to serotonin levels changing and not an indication of what I'm going to be like when the prozac is totally out of my system... I was on this stuff for 9 years so I kinda have no idea how I would/will be without it.

i've been on something new - remeron. it's working great and i feel like a human being again. renewed interest in activities and social stuff, and much better sleep/less insomnia. the only downside is drowsiness so far, but it's not bothering me that much.

yeah i'm contemplating trying it again

The brain zaps are more of a full-body zap for me. It feels like your head/body are a spring that got snapped and going "wah-wah-wah-wah" or "doi-oi-oi-oinnngg" for a couple of seconds. It's not pleasant, but it's not terrible.

I used to be part of the 4% of Zoloft users who would spontaneously dry-orgasm when yawning. Swear to fucking god. I actually kicked off the drug because of other side effects, but this was a fantastic one.

-- Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, February 2, 2005 11:10 PM Bookmark Link

lollll

that's really intense. you're like at a meeting

Searching RedTube for Masterpiece Theater clips.

Wau... Dry mouth, yes. But dry orgasm? Not even close

i stayed up late, a lot

OMG. I think I might enjoy spontaneous yawn-induced dry orgasms? Would I??

Does it have to be a real yawn? Is it something you could condition yourself to do at will? So many questions.

Orgasms have always been hard work for me and Paxil hasn't helped, so it sounds like a really good thing to me.

am a little drunk from my dinner of whiskey and ice cream (the most delicious dinner of all), so i don't know if this is the most appropriate thread for this, but....here goes:

what do y'all think of your relationship with your therapist? i'm starting to really dislike my therapist and i don't know if it's b/c she's "challenging" me like a therapist is supposed to do or if she's just f'ing annoying. I only started therapy in Nov when I hit a real low point and I found her insights to be really helpful. Now I'm doing more OK -- light years away from where I was a few months ago -- and I dunno, I'm not finding these sessions as helpful as I did. Not sure what to do, and really don't look forward to finding another therapist -- how do people even go about finding therapists anyway? This one came to me via my employee assistance program at work...

I dont' currently go to one, which is probably why my meds are occasionally ineffective.

like you, though, rayuela, I saw my last one through a referral through my EAP. He was fairly good, but I felt like I was doing all of the work. I got tired of paying him $20 to parrot back what I said.

(For the record, this is not what I think of the industry, I also had a great psychologist back in 1999).

my last therapy stint was in 2010 for about 7 months; I found a therapist by determining that the medical center across the street from me had a behavioral health department and was in-network for my mom's PPO, then I picked her based on her bio and photo making her seem the youngest/least grandparenty. She wasn't that young ultimately but I did like her. (Then of course winter break happened and I kept putting off setting up an appointment and then I graduated. so it was over a year ago that I last saw her.)

in my limited experience, therapy has rapidly diminishing returns.

if her insights were helpful in nov., that's a big plus. and if she's still 'challenging' you, that may also be a plus (or maybe not). probably better than murmuring things and collecting a check, tho.

otoh, it is unpleasant to pay someone to be annoying. maybe you should challenge her with this question?

"why are u so fucking annoying"

lol

It's also possible that certain therapists have greater strengths in dealing w people at certain points in their progress? I have never been to one so feel free to correct me, anyone. But maybe if you feel like your work together has hit a wall, you could outline what you wd find more helpful and see if she wants to recommend anyone?

I don't know, maybe that's not acceptable doctor-patient discussion.

lol - 'say is the doc next door perhaps better than you at resolving my problems?'

it is true though, no two therapists are the same, and some may show better results early on and then hit a wall when you reach a certain level of progress. unfortunately I've never stayed with one long enough to know.

"why are u so fucking annoying"

yes!

My problem is that I can never get myself to tell therapists the truth about my life. I find myself editing things for them, just like I find myself editing things for my mother. So therapy is pretty much useless for me. It looks like I'll have to get one, though, because the health clinic won't prescribe psych meds for me--they gave me the number of a public substance abuse/mental health clinic.

Do you feel like you have some sort of appearance to maintain? I didn't cop to a lot of the bullshit in my life for so long because I thought that I'd lose some sort of image that people might have of me, which is ridiculous when dealing with therapists or anyone you can spill your heart out to, because... that's why they're there.

Haven't you done some nursing-style stuff, or home care, or something like that, Christine?

The problem is that a therapist feels like an authority figure to me, and I've always felt like I had to hide things away from authority figures. (Yes, I think it does come from my relationship with my mother.) Actually, I've always felt like I had to hide lots of things from everybody--talking about things I enjoy (music, films, etc.) still feels like a painful breech of privacy.

Maybe step one is saying that they seem like an authority figure and you have trouble sharing with authority figures? I don't know, that seems like a hard trust barrier to crack

Yes, I worked in home health for too many years. It's a tremendously isolating job--you have no coworkers, and you learn very quickly not to get too friendly with your clients. (Even the nice ones take advantage of you if you do--I know of people who were sweet-talked into doing things like chopping wood and driving cross-country for their clients.)

I'll try your suggestion out, mh, thanks.

up to rayuela several posts back, (long post ahead) You might as well talk about how your not sure what you are doing in the therapy right now.

I've had the experience of pouring out all my hurts and explaining what went wrong in my life for several weeks, and then just getting tired of hearing myself talk and giving it up. It wasn't until I was in a long term relationship with a therapist and got past that and started talking about how things break down in day to day life and having patterns brought to the front of my attention that I got to the next level.

And then I felt a sense of abandonment over something in her personal life and used that as an excuse to bolt. And if I ever go back, that whole dynamic is exactly what I should be talking about. The therapeutic relationship can be used as a laboratory example of the greater life experience or something. If the pdoc isn't a good match, that could just lead to circular meta, but there is something to be learned there also.

My problem is that I can never get myself to tell therapists the truth about my life. I find myself editing things for them, just like I find myself editing things for my mother. So therapy is pretty much useless for me.

Yeah, I've found this too. I also have problems with being able to communicate with authority figures, perceived or real (though I can't pinpoint this issue to any familial thing I can think of).

The real reason I'm not seeing a therapist at the moment, though, is that my sleep patterns went so completely nuts that the only sleep I was getting was during their opening hours. So I missed my appointments and got kicked off their books.

I think it does come from my relationship with my mother.

Isn't it always? lol

(I was laughing because in my case, I think a lot of my so-called problems stem from my relationship with my mother.)

i have the same problem with editing things, whether it be for a counsellor or a therapist or someone with authority over me, or even just a person who might be forming an opinion of me. It's always surprised me that more people don't edit and hide and pointlessly prevaricate - or maybe it's that more people don't seem aware of themselves editing things. (people don't tell an awful lot of stories that make themselves look bad, do they) (and how can you be honest to someone when you feel like they are there to develop an assessment of you that might pass on to other people! (answer: because if you aren't honest the assessment will either be a lie or about you as a liar, and you're anonymised anyway, and thousands of people are worse than you at everything in life so get over it))

mh's suggesting of starting with "i feel like this is going to be difficult because to me it feels like you're an authority figure, and I am worried that I will be constantly self-editing in order to tell you what i think you want to hear" is a really great one, i think: it gives good advance warning that the therapist might want to dig a bit deeper, and it also alerts the therapist to your fears about the therapeutic process and authority and etc.

thanks for all the tips/comments! I think I might just have to find another therapist, as what I find annoying about her is her general passive aggressiveness so that now I view all her advice/insight as suspect. And since then I've started self-editing, so probably just good to try a different therapist. Sigh.

maybe these are all excuses and I would have issues w/any therapist b/c of that whole authority thing which I have too. or maybe i'm trying to deny her piercing insights. who knows?

tbh I think few people in my life have acted properly authoritative so I don't really have a fear for what's behind the curtain

A long time ago, I crashed my car into a construction lot while tripping balls on LSD. Lucky for me, a tornado had killed 25 people that day and the police were preoccupied with other things. My father (who's white, btw) was able to call off the police when they called him next to my abandoned car. (I had walked home, looking for the apocalypse.)

As part of my penance, I went to a therapist. The whole time I was there, I told him that I crashed the car because I was upset about a girl. He drew flowcharts with magic markers on a legal pad and finally after a few months, told me I could go now. It wasn't a very rewarding experience.

I've started a prescription lately that's worked wonders with my mood swings and anger spells, but the side effects are undesirable. I got the scrip from a GP, but now I'm thinking I should go see someone who's a specialist again. I just worry that I'm looking for an excuse to go mee, meee, meeee for an hour every so often and pay a guy $25 to pitch me some hug yourself bullshit.

Just give me a pill that doesn't make me feel like I'm stifling a yawn all day and I'll be happy.

remeron has changed my life. 2 months ago, my doctor gave me a depression index text and i scored 24, but at my most recent appointment i scored a 2. i feel "like myself again" and everyone that knows me well says that i seem so much more at ease. the main side effect is weight gain, apparently (up to 1/3 of people experience this side effect) but i haven't experienced any yet and my dr says that if it was going to happen it would have happened already.

I guess I'll say out loud that I'm on the paxil. I was worried about weight gain, but it hasn't been too bad yet. Hard to tell what's the side effect and what's me plowing through eight bowls of cheese dip on Super Bowl Sunday.

They also mentioned impotence, which for me was just

http://ttands.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/challenge_accepted_re_red_pancake_s400x300_128675_580_re_longest_post_on_sharenator_s400x300_1947941_draw_a_hamburger_with_your_eyes_closed-s400x300-278987-580.jpg

I won't go into any more detail than that except to say I can live with it.

I came home from the Super Bowl the other night. The kids were in their pajamas still from the night before. Whatever, it's bath night. We'll get them scrubbed. Sunny stops me and says, "When they were home for Christmas vacation, and I let them stay in their pajamas all day, you came in at five and exploded. Do you remember that?"

I said it rang a few bells, but hey, look! I'm not exploding now! I ask her why she mentions it anyway, to offer me a compliment? She lowered her eyes at me and answered, "No, just that you're a hypocrite!"

Tongue-in-cheek, (I think.) I just whistled and got the bath water ready.

Beeps doesn't say things like "I like it when you're happy, Daddy," anymore. I just wish I wasn't so tired.

<3 <3 <3 sunny for ruthlessness.

otm

I know someone who had the yawns from Paxil. They went away eventually but it was really bad at the start.

Seriously, I do that thing all the time now where I squeeze my eyes shut real tight and fold my lips into my mouth. And I can't focus on shit.

If I wasn't on it, I'd be really angry about it!

When I first started Paxil I constantly felt a yawn approaching, but it just wouldn't happen. And when I did yawn, I gagged. That side effect went away fairly quickly.

Had a very similar experience to you, rayuela. I started therapy for the first time back in November and it was very helpful off the bat (at the time, I was to the point of barely caring about myself enough to go for the appt). But the past few weeks, it's been mostly me talking and him just sitting there. I don't dislike him but I do wonder what I'm paying for. Though knowing my issues, I worry about sliding back if I stop going. No advice for you, but I can relate!

thanks vinnie -- i have decided to dump my therapist! though i may take the chickenshit way out & tell her i'm going to suspend therapy in general. we'll see...

i have been curious to try the Remeron again bc looking back i think it may have had some benefit but i just can't go through that weight gain again. i just can't. i'm finally losing weight. also it made me soooooooo tiiiiirrrrrrreeeeeeeeeed i was like my cat!

effexor. i understand the withdrawal stuff, but let's say i want to try this. is it going to mess with my sex drive? any guys out there want to offer any experiences? neandrethal, you said it's better than others, right?

i just want somebody to tell me that they took Effexor and enjoyed the best sex life they've ever had

i haven't had any sex problems with effexor but i'm a lady and i think it works a little differently for us.

i'm currently tapering off effexor (because remeron is working so well) and the process sucks but i still haven't hit the point where i feel depressed again, just hating the withdrawal.

i haven't had any weight gain with remeron yet but my doctor says it's incredibly common...but that if it was going to happen it would have happened already. i hope that's true, though i would deal with extra lbs if they came.

i mean - with remeron, it's just about self control. it doesn't automatically add the pounds, it just makes you want to eat chocolate chips out of the bag. but if that doesn't seem to b a problem for you, then awesome!!

i just don't think i am going to find a magic pill. my psycho must think i'm funny cuz at every 1 month check up i'm like "yeahh i was too scared to try it"

mmmmm chocolate chips out of the bag. i have been having lots of intense food cravings like "if i don't eat pickled green beans right now i am going to DIE" but usually i am not able to find the food and it passes, but i'm not sure if that's from the remeron.

I know somebody on effexor who tells me they have virtually no sex drive whatsoever, ymmv.

great.

that was my experience with effexor too

fantastic.

also FYI the side effects are potentially permanent and in my case outlasted my discontinuation by almost a year

yeah that's the part that pretty much terrifies me. are you a male/female?

no I'm just male

bahahaha. thank u for ur honesty.

i am glad to be on paxil BUT in the 12+ years i've been taking these things i've come to the conclusion that it's important to use them as a stepping stone or supplement to treating depression via good exercise, rest, nutrition, cognitive therapy, mindfulness, etc etc in order to be able to take the lowest doses possible of whatever i'm taking

here's what i've figured out

10 mg (1/2 pill daily) - not smiling ever, snapping at coworkers and making them cry in meetings, pounding steering wheel in frustration while driving

40 mg (2 pills daily) - feel like a giant sloth. fall asleep in chair at work. GF also depressed because of no sex.

20 mg - feel like a human, finally

a giant, adorable sloth escaped from the zoo

I've only had citalopram (celexa) which killed my libido, flattened my moods out, fucked up my menstrual cycle and made me gain a shitton of weight.

This was on just 10mg and coming off it was even worse.

My doctor gave me a month's worth of Prozac "just in case" but I'm just so disillusioned about it now.

I'm really annoyed about it because the mood-evening effects were good for me. The late great's post makes me feel like I should try again though.

i just want somebody to tell me that they took Effexor and enjoyed the best sex life they've ever had

― surm, dinsdag 21 februari 2012 18:48 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*raises hand*

!! male or female? sorry is that a personal question

Srsly, not had any problems with it in that regard, none. It also significantly raised my alcohol tolerance lol. Zoloft (years ago) ruined my libido, but with Efexor, no such thing.

xp Lol your wish comes true: male :-D

o boy

Withdrawal truly is the worst though, I can vouch for that. I'm a scatterbrain but the withdrawal symptoms made sure I wouldn't ever run out our forget a prescription.

I'd never heard of Luvox so i looked at the wikipedia page for it. This is the chemical representation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Fluvoxamine_structure.svg/180px-Fluvoxamine_structure.svg.png

Is it just me, or does that look like a cross between a hangman and a Teletubbie?

Same as Neanderthal's experience re: Effexor, except that I'm always down for an all-night session....

I still don't get how a pill that makes me fat and kills my libido is supposed to cheer me up....

yea i've heard of Luvox too for my ocd

i've been on effexor since i was 16 so honestly i don't really know if it effected my sex drive or alcohol tolerance since i didn't really have either of those before i started. depression is the ultimate sex drive killer for me though. i'm curious to see how all that stuff will shake out when i go off it completely.

celexa decreased my sex drive very slightly while going on it and when adjusting the dosage but that wore off and it's fine again. also no weight gain. so that might be an option for you if you are concerned about those things. but they are different fro everyone. when I took paxil years ago it was horrible for my sex drive.

What sex drive? LOLOLOL

also FYI the side effects are potentially permanent and in my case outlasted my discontinuation by almost a year

my psychiatrist asked me to start taking lamictal today, will let everyone know how it goes

that sucks....i bet it's going to take my brain super long to bounce back since i've been on effexor half my life.

x-post to sunny

i had wicked effexor withdrawal when i just stopped taking it cold, but had no problems later when i replaced it with something else

About to doze off in my chair today. I close my eyes and feel like I'm bobbing.

It sucks because everything else about this has worked tremendously except for this one little thing that could possibly get me fired.

what's going to get you fired?

dozing off in my chair.

oh. are you an air traffic controller? maybe you should tell your boss, so if you do doze off, they can't fire you.

Should've added that I'm at work right now, but everyone's in a managers' meeting, so I'm cool for now.

seriously though, if you just tell your boss your doctor is asking you to take a medication that causes drowsiness i don't think they can fire you, unless you're an air traffic controller or something

Well, I don't want to be drowsy either. You'd think an anti-depressant would be anti-depressive.

I'm being a little extreme about getting fired, I could likely explain the situation. I just don't want to get to that point in the first place.

I appreciate the advice though. Not trying to be all YOU DON'T KNOW ME.

I have no problems being the "Hey, I have a medical issue that could cause my attention to drift this week" guy who then does pretty well at work. I'm more annoyed with people who don't alert others who could be affected or try to blame everything on medical issues.

i've had way less anxiety since starting remeron and as a result i've been maybe a bit TOO laid back at work. the first two weeks i had a lot of drowsiness and constantly felt like i was on the verge of falling asleep but thankfully that side effect cleared up.

i think it is somewhat a hallmark of both american attitudes toward work and also depressive people's attitudes toward work that you have to always be running 110% at work, that if you're not doing 110% things could go to absolute shit at any second and the entire enterprise will fold, and that if you're not working so hard that it's stressing you out then you're not working hard enough and should be sacked

anyway, that's how i find myself thinking a lot of the time, would like to get to a point that i'm not thinking that way all day

yeah that is how my brain works at work as well. i was at my very worst at my last job and having panic attacks all the time, and my boss definitely wanted me to feel that way to make me feel compelled to come in on weekends and stay late and take on responsibilities way outside of my title/salary range.

i had a moment last year when a higher-up at work noticed me staying late all the time and was like "you know, just because you aren't married and don't have kids doesn't mean you have to stay late all the time - you are allowed to have a life." that hit really hard because i was definitely using work to fill a void...and like, really shook me.

lately i haven't been staying late and have been focusing on hobbies...music, cooking, exercise, and will leave in 5 minutes to go to therapy. but i partially expect it to bite me on the ass at some point.

depressive people's attitudes toward work that you have to always be running 110% at work

haha no

My employer has been very cool with me before about medical stuff. I'm just tired of being tired, and if I did get caught nodding off, I don't want to have to have a hand-holding "help us help you, Mr. Plains" talk with the managers.

In other words, give me something that wakes me up and I promise not to stay late or go 110%.

so wait you want to stay late / go 110% AND you're tired of being tired?

staying late makes you less productive the next day, smart bosses want workers with balance in their lives so they're not spending all day coping with stress by checking ILX or whatever

ok, i'm being a little flippant.

I don't like being drowsy. I don't like being tired. I'm not very productive right now.

No, my employer wouldn't fire me for nodding off, like I was about to today, but I would just as soon avoid nodding off at work if I can help it.

I would like to earn my keep and take care of my shit and then leave at 5 pm every day. The biggest thing is that my prescription is turning me into a zombie, it feels.

yeah i want that too

i'm considering switching to a different job with some of the same core responsibilities, but fewer of them - i'd be taking a 40% pay cut but then i'd also have a position w/ essentially zero take-home work.

it's tough to consider leaving something i've tried to build and taking a 40% pay cut - even factoring in the lower tax bracket & the 10 minute commute as opposed to the current hour commute - but you gotta do what you gotta do ... got an interview on friday, we'll see how it goes.

oh guys

i might go fill my prescriptsh for effexor today

i'm scurred

Do it up. We're pulling for you.

Hate the way when I forget to take mine (paroxetine/aropax) in the morning, i can hear my eyeballs moving the whole rest of the day. very odd sensation.

Does anyone else who takes Zoloft get super intense head rushes and dizziness when they skip a day or two? I just been to busy to keep up and am fucking spinning right now. Tends to go away about an hour after ingestion though

surm: I use Effexor and while some might glean that it isn't working based on my posts the past few months, overall it's leveled me out the last few years to where I'm functioning much better than I did prior to taking the pill. I recommend picking it up and seeing how it works for you.

If you do, be prepared for a rough first few weeks, as with all medications of this sort -- I went through about two weeks where I felt very grody. Try and persevere as best you can during that period (barring of course any unusually vicious side effects), and if the pill's right for you, it should wean away the depression a bit which will also allow you to take firmer control of your anxiety. I've always seen Effexor as being an agent that slows things down for me a little so I can process them calmly.

Does anyone else who takes Zoloft get super intense head rushes and dizziness when they skip a day or two? I just been to busy to keep up and am fucking spinning right now. Tends to go away about an hour after ingestion though

Zoloft is Sertraline, right? One time I missed three days and it was definitely doing that a lot. One day skips haven't really done anything to me, though I try to keep up with it every day. I still sometimes get that tight weird feeling in the back of my head when I am taking it, too. Bleurgh.

yes, Sertraline

Mm, well, wish I hadn't said that, as it transpires I lost over a week's worth of tablets while away in London and the pharmacy aren't able to fill my prescription until Thursday. Fucking great.

thx for that advice bo

hey emil.y pharmacies usually aren't much help but if you're in serious distress and willing to wait for a doctor at an urgent care or emergency room they're usually willing to prescribe a small supply of SSRIs (or at least valium) to get you through the next few days

i've been able to have my doctor call in a 10 day prescription when i've gone on vacation and forgotten it.

that's actually happened like 3 times now, you'd think i'd learn.

nhs = death panels amirite

I agree – find a doctor. They understand that you shouldn't miss a dose.

My pharmacy sold me an emergency short-term supply of Paxil based on my expired prescription when I forgot to get it renewed. Sounds like you've probably already tried pleading with them, though :-/

I just switched insurance from Kaiser and now I need to find a new doctor to renew my subscription. Will a regular family doctor be able to do that? Do I have to jump through a lot of hoops or will they just write me up?

I've seen GPs and told them 'hey I was on [whatever SSRI] could you please write me an rx' and they were almost always quietly obliging.

Then again they MAY NOT but it's a good starting point.

Boots will usually give out 5 days worth, our GP frequently doesn't supply repeat prescriptions in time so I've had to do that quite a few times.

my GP wrote my prescription for effexor for about 8 years...but i really should have been checking in with a psychiatrist during that time because i was not on the proper meds and got into a really bad place because of it.

I wanna come off, but I guess I need to refill this script for now

if you're going off i highly recommend seeing a psychiatrist through the process

Saw my GP yesterday. Told him the Pax was working all right, but there was a dealbreaker. He gets this glint in his eye and proclaims "I bet I know what it is!"

I call him on it and he says "the sexual side effects, amirite?" I say no, I'm drowsy all day, can't function at work and might know something about the other side effects if I wasn't passing out two hours before my wife goes to bed every night.

He's all puzzled, says it's rare that "the yawns" go on so long and advises me to split my pills in half. So that's what I got for a $25 co-pay yesterday.

Came home and pretty much fell asleep for 12 hours.

If you can you might want to track down a titration specialist who can help you adjust your dosage more scientifically than shrugging and suggesting you split your pills in half.

Yeah I will try all of this, perhaps I am unreasonably confident that I can deal with tapering off? I have been on this stuff for 2.5 years and am in a much different/better place than I was.

Was also in therapy for 2-3 years, so I am fairly used to that process (and it was just as helpful as the meds, just to counter various opinions on the therapy thread). I am definitely glad I did both - was feeling fairly good about just having therapy until it sort of became clear that a chemical kickstart was needed. Both have been great but I wouldn't have done one without the other.

pplains how long have you been having the drowsiness - i had 2-3 weeks of it on remeron, partially it was my body getting used to the drug and partially (as the doctor explained it) my body making up for a "sleep debt". i had a few days where i slept til 5 in the afternoon, like. but i was a terrible insomniac before and so my body had a legitimate reason for needing extra sleep.

bumped up my dosage slightly due to seasonal blahs and had the awesomest crazy dreams last night and have been in better spirits

drugs are awesome, kids

b_g: Two months on the scrip. And I've always been a pretty sound sleeper.

yeah to me that sounds more like it's not a good fit for you if it's been that long.

PP, do you take the Pax at night or in the morning? I started out in the morning, and when I told the doc it was making me tired, they switched me to the night. Worked much better, and also works like a sleeping pill.

any1 know anything about serzone/nefazodone

VP, I've taken it all times of day. Right before bed and I can't sleep comfortably, if you can believe it. I get drowsy on it, but not relaxed, if that makes sense.

In the morning, and I'm yawning all day at work.

I take it now in the early evening.

(and btw, I don't know who you are irl, but I've always considered you my sibling on this board.)

Ha, likewise. I think paroxetine does have more drowsy-making qualities than Prozac, or whatever the variation of that is these days. You might want to ask your doc to try you on another anti-depressant. I guess your other option would be to introduce some drug to counteract what's making you tired--but that could get complicated.

any1 know anything about serzone/nefazodone

I took it for a few months in 1997 and it had absolutely 0 noticeable effect on me. I decided to try it after Paxil made me orgasm difficulties and I wound up going back to Paxil.

0 side effects, too. It was like taking a sugar pill. After the very positive effects of Paxil, it was a huge let-down to be back to being depressed and nervous while still taking pills every day.

americans: is it standard practice for shrinks to charge for the first vist ($250!) and then allow insurance after? seems totally nuts to me

no, that is not standard practice

yeah, I don't think that is acceptable at all. Are you sure you don't just have a $250 deductible?

no, this is all shrink-side, made clear pre-appointment

Isn't the first meeting a little longer and more intense than subsequent visits? It also works like a deductible where if you're really wanting to do this, you have to pay for it.

max, the dude might be unethically attempting to subvert his negotiated rate with the insurance company. I'd find another provider, and maybe call your insurance.

yeah, that's weird, i've never heard of something like that.

well, before jumping to conclusions ... i just went and saw a psychiatrist and the first visit cost $200.

this is off-plan. my state employee HMO system has terrible mental health coverage. they just removed therapy, and there are something like 20 psychiatrists for something like 10,000 people. so you get appointments like three months out, and you get seen for 15-20 minutes. at least they still cover the medication co-pay for SSRIs and whatnot.

i went off-plan and asked my therapist (who is also off-plan) who she would recommend as a psychiatrist. she recommended me somebody who i went and saw. she wanted to see me for an hour the first day,
and an hour the second day. it was $100/hr, which is a break on her normal $150/hr rate.

in that time, we made a timeline of my mental state from when i first started having problems with depression (5th grade) and ending at the present. she found out everything she could about diet, exercise, sleep, medications, substance abuse, lifestyle, work, relationships, etc etc etc before making a diagnosis and adjusting my medication. she gave me one new thing and kept the other things the same and gave me extensive advice on how to adjust my diet and lifestyle to feel better. after two weeks, i already feel *much* improved.

my HMO psychiatrist asked me what i was taking, how much, and how it was going for me. she prescribed me two new medications and i fell asleep driving on the way to work about four days later. i didn't go back.

so it could be unethical, OR it could be that the psychiatrist is essentially saying "to give you the level of care i want to give you, i need to see you for a longer, more extensive session than your insurance covers, therefore you pay out of pocket for the first couple, and then we do the 20-minute psychiatric checkups that your insurance covers".

to make really clear - my HMO only covers 20-minute visits with a psychiatrist, even for the initial visit.

they are supposed to get all of the background info from your GP but obviously a GP is not a psychiatrist and may or may not have relevant info, also who knows how good the communication is, and if the psychiatrists are as slammed as the ones in my HMO system then they're probably too busy to really look at your medical records in much depth anyway

max sometimes the following happens (which may have already been mentioned):
*you need a referral from a gp/family doctor (i made an appt with a shirk a few years ago. it took 3 months to get in to see me at which point i was told i would have to pay $375 because i didnt have a referral. They had three fucking months to ask if I had a referral or even insurance. and then she said 'oh look *you dont even have a PCP on your insurance card so you cant get a referral we can accept)
*you need a referral from a gp/family doc that is registered as your PCP with your insurance (their name might be on your card)
*some insurance plans only allow certain specialist visits and even if they do allow a shrink it might only be for certain things like stuff a psychologist cant handle. (its all about the claim codes man)
*lots of stuff needs a pre-authorization by insurance and doctor and noone bother to tell you that shit

oh fuck i just realized you covered all this shit

okay some questions and maybe protips?

1. if your first visit was off-plan then of course youre going to foot the entire bill, unless im missing something?
2. how many times do you get to see a shrink per year? it seems weird they would go by times not no. of visits.
3. Heres what I do with my guy. I call reception and ask them to put me on the cancellation list. You'd be shocked how quick you get an appt and they usually give you 24 hours notice.
4. Lay everything out about your mental state, what you are taking etc as fast and honestly as you can when you get to see this guy. Once you get the right balance down he can then refer you to a GP who can keep on writing RXs for the medicine the shirk recommends. That way your GP will know whats going on, your shrink will be there if you need him or if things get out of whack etc. (fwiw ive been getting adderall and xanax from my OBGYN on the recommendation of my psychologist for about 2.5 years. Ive seen my OBGYN maybe once in the past two years and that was in a parking lot in passing. Docs know each other and if they trust one another theyre happy to prescribe whatever the other doc recommends.

diude thats all ive got in me now. more soon.

oh one question: can i ask what the drug that knocked you out was?

(last two popsts the late great........one before that to max)

lol u ppl with coverage

yeah i'm paying for everything out of pocket

your plan sounds like a good way to save money but honestly i'm not ad brave as you are w/r/t procreation so i'm okay paying to avoid the aggravation

I think what knocked me out was Ativan at night and klonopin in the morning