I am too old for this...the 40 plus thread.

I thought it was one of those age-morphed photos of Ned.

Revive for those of us between them pesky kids and the over 50's.

You are probably wiser than many ILXors. Am I remembering correctly that you have kids? They must be growing up! I am looking forward to my kids being older and less dependent on me...

-- Sara R-C, Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:57 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

My kids are now 10 and 7. And are less dependent on me. But I am no wiser. If anything I'm getting more confused. Although perhaps my recognition of my confusion is a sign of wisdom?

I've already started thinking of myself as 40 even though I've technically got a year and a half left.

It's kinda nice. Being young sucked. Being middle aged is way better. Being old is going to be the best yet. I just wish I could make the menopause come early. I know there are drugs you can take to delay it, aren't there drugs you can take to bring it on?

I don't think being young has to suck. It's just that you need certain factors in alignment to make the best of it:

-supportive parents
- stimulating educational environment
- access to a social network

For some reason, despite my mother being mentally unstable, my parents took themselves off to Africa, and had five children without seeming to have any interest in children whatsoever.

I've already started thinking of myself as 40 even though I've technically got a year and a half left.

Funny that, I think of myself as 38 and a half, even though technically I'm 42.

Celebrities Hitting The Big 4 - 0 In 2008.

40 can be a very, very good time of life, if everything is going well for you, but it can also be a time of great discouragement, if you look at yourself and don't like what you see.

My best advice for the ILXors in their early 40s is not to lose sight of the person you most want to be (not necessarily the person you wanted to be when you were 20 and wished you could be a rich and famous whatever-it-was). Then do what it takes to move toward becoming that person. If you do not, you risk becoming an empty husk and a very sad person.

Also, in your 40s, your body should still respond fairly promptly to exercise and reward you for your efforts by adding strength, stamina and energy. If you slide through your 40s, don't expect to make up lost ground very easily in your 50s. It will be 3X harder then.

Celebrities Hitting The Big 4 - 0 In 2008.

i think a few of the people on that list may be lying about their age. no way is gillian anderson only 40!

Allow me to kill this thread by hitting it on the skull with a heavy, blunt piece of advice. Oh, wait... I already did.

Oh! I thought I replied to this. Eh. I must be getting senile. Is this what my 40s are gonna be like? Becoming even more forgetful?

ahahah aimless I loved your advice, classic words of wisdom.

I am afraid my 40's are going to involve more full-time work than the last decade did.

Also, in your 40s, your body should still respond fairly promptly to exercise and reward you for your efforts by adding strength, stamina and energy. If you slide through your 40s, don't expect to make up lost ground very easily in your 50s. It will be 3X harder then.

Yeah. You can still get bigger and stronger in at least your early 40s. I suspect things decline in your 50s though.

(Or getting results gets much harder, I should say).

I'm certainly getting bigger.

My best advice for the ILXors in their early 40s is not to lose sight of the person you most want to be (not necessarily the person you wanted to be when you were 20 and wished you could be a rich and famous whatever-it-was). Then do what it takes to move toward becoming that person. If you do not, you risk becoming an empty husk and a very sad person.

Also, in your 40s, your body should still respond fairly promptly to exercise and reward you for your efforts by adding strength, stamina and energy. If you slide through your 40s, don't expect to make up lost ground very easily in your 50s. It will be 3X harder then.

Thanks Aimless. I think I need to pin this to the fridge and meditate on it daily. I'm in danger of this very problem, I fear.

I am too old for this...the 40 plus thread.

vs.

This is the inevitable thread for ILxors in their forties

FITE!!!!!

No contest. I apologise for starting that other one.

Also, in your 40s, your body should still respond fairly promptly to exercise and reward you for your efforts by adding strength, stamina and energy. If you slide through your 40s, don't expect to make up lost ground very easily in your 50s. It will be 3X harder then.

This is the reason I'm exercising now. I mean at age 34, not right now this minute - although I suppose I'm exercising my fingers. Put it another way, I'm doing it because I'm lazy, and it'll be a lot harder if I wait until I'm 40 to start getting fit again.

No need for apologies! xp.

In a few years time so many of us will be in their 40s we will need both threads.

Ok, that last sentence didn;t really make sense but I think you see what I mean. Unless dementia is setting in.

Every time I do any kind of activity I read, often the next day, of someone conking out or at the very least suffering a stroke while doing that same activity, mowing the lawn, having sex, doing the hoovering. Is anything safe for the over 40s?

I don't want to sound like Debbie Gibson but a little more positivity on these threads wouldn't hurt.

(there's a reference for the over-40s if ever there were one...)

grey hairs really coming in now :-\

39 now and staring down the barrel of 40 in November, and I'm in pretty much the same place as I was when I was 30. Which is not necessarly the greatest place to be. On the whole I'm a bit more chilled out about the impending Significant Birthday than I was ten years ago... Which may be a sign of increasing maturity or just resignation to my fate.

you can always ask Mariella Frostrup for advice and be sure of a sympathetic response:

Sex, cigars, travel - his 40th birthday celebrations have gone on all year. But as his friends leave, the rest of his life is looking like a hangover from hell

People can give you a lot of helpful advice about passing the big 4 0 but in my opinion this shit sucks and fuck anybody who thinks otherwise.

Get out there and start celebrating the fact that you still have another 50 per cent of your life to come. And try replacing the 'we' in the penultimate sentence with an 'I'. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

There's a degree of self-pity about your plaintive cries that makes it hard to be sympathetic.

And yet Mariella on being 40 herself:

Reaching 40 didn't sneak up on me as I'd been promised. It hit me, head on, like the Eurostar at full speed. One minute I was in my early thirties, thinking that there was still so much to achieve. Next, I'm 40 and wondering why I'd wasted a decade trying so hard

(x-post)

39 now and staring down the barrel of 40 in November september.

i don't have any big hang-ups about it that i know of. could be because having two little kids keeps me too busy to think about much. 50 might be harder because i have a feeling i'm going to emerge from the fog of parenthood and be like, 'wait, i'm 50???'

44 here. coping. no kids for me, thanx. but i do have two wonderful teenage nieces; they buy me CDs (lol) and shit. it's awesome.

carpal tunnel syndrome
lower back pain
acid reflux
need bifocals

yeah lol my body is starting to fall to bits and twenty year-olds think I'm some kind of space monster. this is awesome!

it can only get funnier.

xp
need to stop kidnapping and dissecting them on your dining table then.

I'm not gonna play this stiff upper lip bullshit is all. Fuck getting old.

also usu asleep by 11

eh, it happens.

xp

damn, dude, i usually hit the hay an hour or two past midnight.

noodle if you've got ppl that love you you've made it in life.

45 was a tougher birthday than 40.

^not entirely true.

xp

noodle if you've got ppl that love you you've made it in life.

yeah, this is greeting-card hooey.

I rarely think of myself as 35 years old. It's just a number and I don't recognize myself in this. (This could very well mean, I'm really getting dumber. Hard to achieve but, if it is the case, WHAT an achievement!) So I'll be 40 in about 4/5 years. I do hope so! Woohooo, let it come! I love 4s.

I'm about to turn 38 but hey.

I just noticed that I'm getting grey pubic hairs!

youngsters these days.

x-post -- Well after you started letting them grow in after assiduously shaving them due to your porn career, something had to show up.

too olde to pron, too young to die.

For some reason didn't realise I was older than Ned or Nath. Not saying lol you guys old, just thought you were a couple of years up on me. THIS ISN'T HELPING

one thing that helps me is i'm a little under the median age for my office. having lots of 40s, 50s and 60s around me -- and only one sub-30-yr-old in the place -- makes me feel comparatively spry and youthful.

Whereas I mostly work with 16 year-olds.

It's coming for me...

yeah I'll hit the big three-five this year but my "friends" irl these days are mostly professional and they're all old, like fifties and sixties old. So I still feel like a little kid compared to them.

"For some reason didn't realise I was older than Ned or Nath. Not saying lol you guys old, just thought you were a couple of years up on me. THIS ISN'T HELPING"

this is how i feel 'bout all you guys! haha

to celebrate, I would like you all to know that I think Newt Gingrich has some really good points, and that from now on I intend to pay for everything in spare change, which I will keep in a ziplock bag in my fanny pack.

Happy celebrations, Oilyrags!

Thank you. I disapprove of the music and clothing of teenagers.

Hello dere, midlife crisis.

grey hairs really coming in now :-\
― velko

don't think i'd fancy knowing on which body parts exactly ;)

Turning 40 on Monday. No fear, no regrets so far. Am looking forward to - hopefully! finally! - quitting smoking and curbing the social drinking to a minimum. But still gonna enjoy
myself as much as possible before I have to buy that walker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_29#Births

GK CHesterson!
Bob Hope!
TH White!
JFK!
Iannis Xenakis!
Josef Von Sternberg!
Danny Elfman!
Melissa Etheridge!
Rupert Everett!
Noel Gallagher!

But best of all…

JOHN HICKLEY JR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats!

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/711/907/16/an14sBBtun3Cimg.jpg

Happy Almost Birthday, you squalling infant. SHARE YOUR CAKE.

in the last couple of weeks i have had to learn what a 'spasm of the facet joint' is (the phrase : "fucking painful" is apt), and developed an unexpected obsession for miles davis 69-74 era.
i've never really felt over 40, but these two additions to my life have certainly brought the fact into focus.
having said that, i am the more content, calm, and satisfied with life than i have ever been.

happy birthday oilyrags.

thx, y'all. As soon as it hits five, I'm going mallwalking!

Get there by four for the Early Bird Special!

I am very much on the young part of this thread, but stuff like this makes me feel like I'm 100.

http://www.retronaut.com/2013/10/people-using-cincinnati-public-library-card-catalog/

Look at those troglodytes, having to open and close drawers to find their library books!

This is the reason I'm exercising now. I mean at age 34, not right now this minute - although I suppose I'm exercising my fingers. Put it another way, I'm doing it because I'm lazy, and it'll be a lot harder if I wait until I'm 40 to start getting fit again.

― snoball, Friday, August 29, 2008 3:29 PM (6 years ago)

^^^ ranks as one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm 40 now, don't even want to think about how out of shape I'd be if I hadn't got off my backside.

ooohhhh boy is my years of not exercising and wearing the orthotics in my shoes im supposed to, catching up with me now. So many bits hurt.

Had my first migraine (I think?) on Friday. I know they strike persons of any age, but I'm lumping it in with all my other old guy ailments. Hope I never have to live through another one, though. Goddamn. Brutal.

Im dreading the likely-soon-approaching "change of lyfe" cos it comes early for all the women in mi family. YAY.

i will be 40 in 2016. already seeing random grey hairs, some minor wrinkling, and a herniated disc, but i've had that for 10 years.

my super-hilarious running joke is that i'm going to write a weird al-style parody of "everybody hurts" called "everything hurts."

you know what i'm too old for? "progressive" political marches that never change a damn thing.

Political marches mainly serve as a way for progressives to fell less lonely for a day or two. The real work to change things happens elsewhere.

yes, but i just feel lonelier

That may not be the marches' fault.

xp that's because you hope even as you feel hopeless, you crazy diamond

I stopped caring about aging. I'll be sixty in as many years as this board is old. Why care? I feel fine.

my 40s are breaking my heart tbrr. I think people join cults when they're in the sort of place i'm in about my 40s.

I'm getting old before my time. I'm definitely in prime cult-joining headspace right now.

meet u at Z3nd1k F@rm at dusk

http://sharetv.com/images/guide/360520.jpg

favorite episode tbh

Im dreading the likely-soon-approaching "change of lyfe" cos it comes early for all the women in mi family. YAY.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Monday, September 22, 2014 12:05 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

For my part I'd prefer to start "The Change" now--massive periods are yet another thing I'm fed up with. (However, if I do take after my mother in this regard, 1) my menopause is still quite a few years away, and 2) I can look forward to a 3-week cycle, as opposed to 4 weeks. YAY?)

Yeah at the moment without turning this thread into a TMI one, my insides are all over the damn place and its a pain in the jacksy.

Also god dammit, I have to learn that I cant drink like I have been for the last 15 years, forever.

ha, i was going to post something like "lol you change-of-lifers have it easy" but i didn't want to go down a TMI road.

Guess I get to post here now.

t-minus 16 days and counting.

Welcome!

46 is a weird age. i feel good, but also want to complain a lot about being tired.

6 days

I have so much doctoring I need to get done. A physical, probably a prostate exam, definitely some dental work and a new glasses/contacts prescription (bifocals!) is in order.

i'm already at the bifocal-contacts stage. i know i'll soon be at the point where i'll need f--g "reading glasses." or only read big-print texts.

48 and counting

Area 51.

http://a1star.com/images/area51.gif

I felt like a schlub last weekend when my 65 year old father came over to help me work on my yard and he would be digging up roots and sawing branches for hours at a time without taking breaks and I'd have to sit down after just mowing the grass.

Strangely 40 and 41 were OK for me. 42-45 were killers. I think I sort of rounded down in my mind, like oh, I'm still in my 30s. 42 and after, brutal.

I feel like I turned 40 as soon as I had kids. Now that I'm almost 40, I'm really glad I wasn't 40 when I had kids.

I don't have kids, sometimes I still think that I'm 26

I don't have kids, sometimes I still think that I'm 26.
Then I try to get out of bed.

yup

i'm not looking forward to 50, except that -- by then -- we'll be prepping our daughter for college, which will be awesome (and stressful, and expensive, and will make me sad if she'll be far away, and . . . bah).

haha for me it's more like I can't subsist on pizza and fried convenience foods and ice cream the way I did back then without feeling gross.

Also, it's harder to get excited about music and shows ...

yeah, i haven't been to a concert in years. i miss live music.

and i've been threatening to go get drunk at a karaoke bar. that would be bad for everyone involved.

I went to two last weekend ... but I used to go to like 4-5 a week

i just hope my next concert isn't taking our daughter to one-direction. i'd prefer taylor swift.

i will veto justin bieber.

I want live music to feature prominently in my 40s. As long as there are seats lol j/k

i feel like i am benefiting from lowered expectations. like 'hey, you don't look so bad for a 43yo'

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hearing this. i tell people i'm 56.

(j/k about the "tell people i'm 56" part)

(btw i meant that as a self-image thing -- no one actually says that to me!)

As long as there are seats lol j/k

not a joke for us

(my wife and I)

Definitely downshifting on various fronts, only been to a few shows this year, etc. etc. Not complaining, though -- the part of me that was always "I'd rather just chill and read/listen/whatever at home" is now feeling plenty justified, while I still have lot of great show memories anyway.

Our Amber went to see Taylor Swift with a friend and her mum, about 7 years ago. Bieber was support. She thought T was ok, B was rub.

Did not have to take her. I did take them both to see Busted, back in the day.

The funny thing is, the only live venue in Reading mainly puts on bands that people my age would go see (Bad Manners, The Orb, Cast, etc)

yes, also part of the great 48 and can't really tolerate, any longer, gigs where i have to stand for long periods, where it's hot or crowded, where there are poor sightlines or a noisy bar, where it's too big a venue, etc etc. can't imagine i will ever go to an outdoor festival of any description, again. on the plus side, the need for comfort, decent sound, attentive audiences etc has driven me towards many more 'classical' etc performances, which is a new and sustaining pleasure.

so i don't think i'm done w/ consuming stuff just yet.

Oh, we did Reading Festival like we used to: go see bands we want to, also go to stages at random and find bands we don't know but discover they're great, sort of thing.

Only difference is Amber is locked down the front w/ her friends.

Now that I'm almost 40, I'm really glad I wasn't 40 when I had kids.

yes, also part of the great 48 and can't really tolerate, any longer, gigs where i have to stand for long periods, where it's hot or crowded, where there are poor sightlines or a noisy bar, where it's too big a venue, etc etc. can't imagine i will ever go to an outdoor festival of any description, again. on the plus side, the need for comfort, decent sound, attentive audiences etc has driven me towards many more 'classical' etc performances, which is a new and sustaining pleasure.

so i don't think i'm done w/ consuming stuff just yet.

― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, November 7, 2014 5:26 PM (4 minutes ago)

I feel quite good for an old bastard. The metal in the ankle occasionally throbs, the tinnitus drones at night, I get mighty tired sometimes and the eyesight is fucking terrible. I suffer from insomnia and sometimes worry about all the asbestos I have been exposed to. every time I look in a mirror some fucking bent-nosed grotesque with receding hair is impersonating me. Yeah I love getting old!

The sidies are getting grey mainly, a few eye wrinks, apart from that ..

The eyesight is much the same as it ever was, might even have got better as I thought I was going long. Full hairy head, you know its ok.

i don't really go to shows anymore, but for different reasons than being old

and my drastic nearsightedness has actually been eased by the farsighted tendencies of age

Just turned 49. I still go to a LOT of shows, but because I'm out in the suburbs with only a vague income for the time being I'm mindful about where I'm spending my $$$. Far more excited about $10 club shows than I am about dropping $60 + $parking at a fancier seated venue. The biggest show I go to these days is Austin Psych Fest.

The biggest change as I've gotten older is that I see far fewer movies in a theater.

and my drastic nearsightedness has actually been eased by the farsighted tendencies of age

I am waiting for this to happen to me.

i am only 31 but i DO have one kid and another on the way next year and tbqf i really love this thread

Josh in Chicago
Posted: November 7, 2014 at 3:30:53 PM
I feel like I turned 40 as soon as I had kids. Now that I'm almost 40, I'm really glad I wasn't 40 when I had kids.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaaa oh no

I'm weirdly feeling healthier as I trudge into my 40s (tbf plenty of reasons for that, mostly involving ahem well life and habit decisions). Weirdly timed getting my shit together far later than the rest of the world, so this seems like the golden awesome years most of the times. Still lots of shows (kid dependent), lots of friends on the same arrested development schedule, outside of oh shit my parents will die sooner than I want, my 40s are awesome.

Be back in a week when my organs all turn to mush and my hip explodes to recant.

i think when i turn 35 i'm just gonna force myself into a "i'm an awes 60 year old" mindset and aging will be a breeze

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/03/secret-fantasies-adults

i think when i turn 60 i'm just gonna force myself into a "i'm an awes 35 year old" mindset and aging will be a breeze

My thing is dancing, not rock, and dance clubs don't like people over40 much. I'm on a strict diet and exercise program so that I can look young and fit in the dark in dance clubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh-9W19da-I

(for the first few seconds, but stay for the rest)

I just turned 60 today. I am trying to summon the mindset that I am an awesome 60 year old, but getting regularly zinged on ilx for the past few years opens the door to some pernicious doubts.

<3

Don't you mean >>>>>3?

Happy birthday, Aimless!

Congratulations.

but getting regularly zinged on ilx for the past few years opens the door to some pernicious doubts

God, no.

No the doubts are good totally keen on the doubts never stop doubting aimless

happy birthday aimless!

Oh yeah that top

o

HB, Aimless...several fine upstanding people born on this day, and also me.

FP'd u for fishing for a hb in the guise of wishing a hb also hb

You too, WC. (Fish caught!)

he wants the hb.

HB, dudes.

I'll take the FP as well as the HB -- BRB, on my way to the WC.

...and many happy returns WmC!

Happy birthday to you too, WmC!

Happy natal anniversary, WmC. We who were also born today today salute you.

happy birthday, aimless and wmc.

There is only one thing worse than being zinged about.

a paper cut?

HB Aimless and Rock, you are both standup people I admire massively for all the reasons both of you have posted about over the years and then some. xx

I'm struggling a bit at 43 with my level of fitness - I smoke and drink way more than I did in my 20s, bit of a reverse childhood I guess? I have a partner with kids now, so these things weigh on me more than they might have, as well as said partner having a heart condition. Health and get up and go mean a lot now. Its like being a shark - move or die. I despair looking at my sagging face in the mirror but tbh for a 43 year old i know i look good (im way too fat though). I drink and smoke too much, but life is short and shit, so I'm grabbing it by the hojos.

so I'm grabbing it by the hojos

The Howard Johnsons?

Meant to post this yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhLtIJIiyI

ffs today I pulled a muscle in my shoulder putting on a jacket

I woke up Monday morning and my left tricep felt like someone had snuck in overnight and kicked it with a boot. Still hurts even now. I have no idea why and my left arm is basically useless for anything other than hanging off of my torso.

what else would you do with it?

Star Wars 7 shit talk

Happy belated, Aimless

I am still free of fortysomethinghood, though not for that long

ty

1.) Walked all the way up to the water company and all the way back without paying because I couldn't remember my PIN.

2.) Was thinking last night how sitcom characters never have names like Matt, Mark or Susan - always names like "Chandler". Led to me trying to remember the characters from Friends. Here they are in order of my memory:

12 AM Chandler, Joey
6 AM Rachel
8:30 AM Phoebe, Ross
JUST NOW AS I WAS TYPING THIS ALL OUT Monica

every white american baseball player between the ages of 18-25 is named tyler

who'd have guessed the 10th President of the USA would be so widely honored 170 years later

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/suddenly_susan1_4028.jpg

who'd have guessed the 10th President of the USA would be so widely honored 170 years later

Maybe they're all his grandkids.

I am afraid my 40's are going to involve more full-time work than the last decade did.

― sleeve, Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:25 PM (6 years ago)

I would like to report that I was OTM six years ago

Less than one year into my 40s and I feel that's going to be a major theme.

No comment

My 40s rule so far

Maybe 42 is the age I was always meant to be, I dunno

I love being in my 40s, but man, do I hate people under 30 these days. They all seem like their understanding of the world is on a level with a duckling's.

That's weird. My experiences with people under 30 lead me to believe they're all way smarter and engaged with the world than I ever was at that age.

Being "engaged with the world" and being a naïve idiot are not mutually exclusive.

Turning 44 next week. Ay yi yi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDwQN4UeF8E

I keep telling myself it is just a number, and you know what? that is the fucking truth and it is just a number!

I am here to testify that although I'm a pretty damned healthy 60 years old, all those ticks of the clock, cell divisions and heartbeats add up to more than just 'a number'.

They're all part of a very limited number, one that rarely crosses over into three digits.

I work with a 25-year-old who's going through a bucket list of sorts on Facebook, doing all of these things she's always wanted to do before her first quarter-century is over.

One of them apparently was a big slumber party where everyone watched the Harry Potter movies in order.

I'm somewhat comforted by the fact that it will be that generation nursing me in hospice care.

some people under 30 are smart and engaged with the world, some are not.

i'm in the 'nothing good about getting older' camp.

all those ticks of the clock, cell divisions and heartbeats add up to more than just 'a number'.

feeling this at 57. then again i saw my friends dad recently, wished him a belated HB and he blurted "90 is terrible. 89 was fine, but 90..." as he rattled his walker in emphasis. but he went on to display a fine-tuned cylinders-still-firing mind, at one point noting (he's a retired physician) "the human body wasn't DESIGNED to last this long"

So I'm clearly old enough to be somebody's grandfather.

http://i.imgur.com/knmcJJp.jpg

Looked her up and one of the first Google results is a photograph of her from 2004 when she was 10.

Granted, if I had had a daughter in 1994, I might've named her Malkmus Moore.

ffs today I pulled a muscle in my shoulder putting on a jacket

― just like Nietzsche but with jokes (snoball), Tuesday, December 2, 2014 8:41 PM (9 months ago)

This morning I pulled one of the muscles in my back between my shoulder blade and spine, apparently by picking up a coffee cup off the table.

Timely. I was just thinking today how this year is the first time I've really felt things start to go. Started with a minor fracture in my left forearm in January, which then either led to or exacerbated rotator cuff issues, which I now have in both shoulders (can be painful to reach behind me at certain angles, can't quite reach my left arm all the way over my head). And in the last few months, suddenly getting pain in my right hip when I sit for too long (or stand for too long). I have a feeling the answer to all of this is to get back to yoga, which I've neglected this year. But no amount of yoga will change that I'll be 46 next week.

On the other hand -- I'm still fit enough to hike and camp with the kids, and most days I feel great. So I shouldn't complain. I'm just aware of the slow accretion of physical difficulties.

And looking back I see my first post in this thread was when I was 39. Ah those were the days.

Along with my PIN and the cast of Friends, I haven't been able to remember the name of the book that Harper Lee wrote.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? NO, of course not.

I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings? That's Maya Angelou, but I feel like I'm getting closer.

I could look it up, but this is ridiculous. Atticus Finch, Scout Finch, Dill, Boo Radley... dammit.

TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD Jesus Christ.

lol

Similar thing happened to me the other day. Even though I could picture all the characters from the show and sing most of the theme song in my head, I could NOT remember the title being "Beverly Hillbillies."

Ha. To your credit though, the title is never said in the song. Just kind of at the end by the announcer.

rip men

The biggest threat facing middle-age men isn’t smoking or obesity. It’s loneliness.

Can't go out on Wednesday nights, that's Church Night.

I don't hang with my pals as much anymore because, yeah work and family, but also social media. Saw an old poker buddy recently in the parking lot, first time we'd seen each other in years, but it wasn't like one minute had passed because we tweet and Like and all that shit.

I worry about my son being lonely like that. The one standing event we have on the calendar each week is Cub Scouts. The format is so weird, and I likely wouldn't have prodded him in to checking it out had I known that it was just a roomful of boys, each with their mommy or daddy sitting behind them, working on projects independently. We've been in there since September, and I don't know if the boy even knows any of their names.

suggest inserting liquid mercury for the boy's pinewood derby entry

it won't win -- the mercury sloshes backward once you hit the level -- but it'll still be cool as hell

Don't even mention the pinewood derby.

lol

i was going to attempt to address the issues raised in the article but . . . my life is different from the author's in a great many ways

People even moving to a different neighborhood in the same city can make it hard to hang out. We try to hang out with another couple every month, usually we make it work out, but I don't have any non-work-related buddies to hang out with at this point. I'm lucky I get along with people at my job!

I figure if I can maintain a couple of hobbies that aren't exclusively drinking or exclusively solitary into my dotage, I should be okay.

"the human body wasn't DESIGNED to last this long"

Lack of meaning and enjoyment in life is the primary problem I would guess:
e.g. why are I going through all these empty routines, did I waste 20 years of my life on something I haven't particularly enjoyed, can I face another x years of this and what for?

Loneliness is a secondary problem because there's no support to deal with the meaningfulness questions.

I get irritated with probably well intentioned, but fluffy, articles in the media about how everything would be alright if only people would talk to each other more and had deeper friendships.

both those posts otm

I have family and close friends and work people I'm friendly with and a pub full of people I can generally chat to and hang with and ILX and the emptiness doesn't go away hardly ever

People conditioned to underrate salary, comfort, entertainment by the last twenty years of thinkpieces imo

hey if my salary was only a couple of thousand nearer the national median a lot of things would be notably rosier

but the rest of it is nah you're advocating for emptiness. tho I guess I have no ish with Emptiness. everything sent to try us mebbe.

no, second thoughts, those things are all fine in and of themselves but they sit higher up Maslow's pyramid than the absence of whatever it is that leaves the emptiness

There's that, if one subscribes that it's a pyramid and not a shifting swamp

just the usual bone to gnaw on a Thursday morning tbh

Not here mate, long weekend starts this evening innit

Maybe that's the environmental factors affecting results, check back with you on tues

I am not yet 40 (two years, two months to go) but I can identify with that article. I've done a lot of things over the last few years to initiate friendships - record clubs, board game club, cycling with different groups of people, football - and they're all about doing something together with a purpose rather than just 'hanging out'.

Nice to read that everyone else is alone too.

i'm not so much but other issues do kick in

If you start collecting action figures, you will never be alone again.

welp

ha i shared this article a few days ago with some friends of mine. it is definitely fluffy and a little dumb but some of it resonated with me. i'm not 40, i'm only 33 but i'm married w/ two kids, have a full-time job, and we're planning on buying a house soon so i am experiencing some of the demands of "adulthood" or some variant of it that can be stressful and isolating.

i think over the past few years i have realized how important it is for me to connect w/ people beyond my family. particularly men. i was going to post in the "serious discussion of men's rights" thread but i hesitated bc even a little association w/ men's rights feels like trash but i have found great value in meaningful relationships w/ other men

after moving back to my hometown last year i have recently reconnected w/ some friends of mine from my youth. we now have a regular thing, we chill on friday nights every couple of weeks. we cook some food and buy some fancy beer and smoke a few joints, and talk about music or politics or film. i've always had friends whether it's other couples or families we hang out with but im grateful to have this regular time w/ men who have known me since i was a kid, there is an ease and comfort hanging w/ them since we've known each other for so long.

it's weird because you still do have the "men's movement" thing kicking around which is sort of diametrically opposed to the "men's rights" thing

the trick appears to be finding a like minded community or two: people who run, do yoga, kayak, play poker, do macrame, whatever
having friends who want to hang is always iffy for adults but if you're part of folks who want to do a thing whether or not you're there, esprit de corps tends to occur naturally

meanwhile my closest friends really are people i know from the internet, usenet twenty years ago (the internet was _very_ different back in those days). but we keep dying. :(

i don't talk about this shit on ilx because different communities for different purposes but i had a death in the family last year that led to some major rifts in the family and that all kinda demolished me. but i was in a community that i had been part of for years but hadn't really acknowledged as MY COMMUNITY at that point but their support kept me afloat. people stood up when i wasn't expecting it and when i expressed thanks, what i heard several times was "you'll be called on eventually too but for now we got you." So that proved to be pretty important.

Wednesdays used to be my Happy Hour night, when I'd meet a few buds, go through a few pitchers, and tell a few jokes.

Then I got married, had the kids, etc., and you know? I'd rather spend my weeknights at the house than sampling the new Pale Ale.

One of my best friends lost his partner of 18 years this past summer, so we reconnected again a little bit. Good to see him. But a few months later, after the fifth or sixth time of playing "YouTube Jukebox" on his SmartTV, I was happy that he found a new girlfriend.

One funny thing - I hadn't visited him at his house in years, but we did use to hang out together on GTA Online.

the joy i get from oh so rarely finding an old friend or ilxor in an online game is totally unreasonable.

side note: i stopped drinking more or less completely about ten years ago and i'm here to tell you that (in conjunction with a steady relationship and no interest in picking anyone up) renders "going out to a bar" into a real horrible slog of an evening even if you enjoy the company. denying alcohol greatly limits sociability, like to the point where I've seriously considered taking up drinking again but the past experience and family history that put the kibosh on it in the first place has to take precedence.

I've written about loneliness from the queer POV a couple times this week, and it's endemic: society regards friendships as a distraction from work and biological families.

I'm lucky that my confirmed bachelorhood forces me to make dates with my bros as often as twice a week, but I'll admit it takes work. I'm also the sort of person also perfectly happy with alone-ness, a condition I distinguish from loneliness.

like to the point where I've seriously considered taking up drinking again but the past experience and family history that put the kibosh on it in the first place has to take precedence.

this being one of the big knots I can't get out of, except I have taken up drinking again, albeit with a deal more restraint than I used to have

I read at least one of your pieces Alfred and it gave me real pause - you're describing a loneliness that feels inscribed into the experience of queerness in a way that's on a whole other level from wherever my alienation originates

Comfort with alone-ness doesn't inoculate one against loneliness, mind.

absolutely - a lot of the time I am more than happy being alone on my own terms

I'm 45, been married 24 years. No kids. Neither my wife nor I has any real-world friends anymore - they're all dead. One guy, who I'd known since the fourth grade, committed suicide in 2004, and the other one, who I'd known since high school, was hit by a cab in 2005 and died a year later, in his sleep, from a traveling blood clot. She had been close with a former co-worker who was in her 60s or 70s, and they exchanged letters for years, but the old lady passed last November.

We go to movies a few times a year, or to art galleries or museums, or just go wander through a bookstore for a couple of hours. We enjoy each other's company, but we don't seek out other people. Neither of us is close with our families, either - I call my brother on his birthday, and he returns the favor. She's an only child and both her parents are dead; my mom is still alive, and I talk to her maybe a half dozen times a year. During the day, she paints and I write, and we connect for meals or if there's something one of us wants to show/tell the other. We read a lot, we have a few TV shows we watch together and a few we watch separately - it's a low-key life, but it suits us very well.

http://www.gq.com/story/the-last-true-hermit

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/mar/15/stranger-in-the-woods-christopher-knight-hermit-maine

For this 47 year old dude the biggest threat turned out to be a motion detector

Just read that same story linked on facebook. It's an impulse I can empathise with to an extent but would never follow through with myself.

The fact that the guy made his living by burglary is not a point in his favor.

#latecapitalism

Life just gets better as you go on. For me I just find myself giving less and less of a shit and that helps me enjoy everything that much more.

Life just gets better as you go on.

Oh, does it now.

I read at least one of your pieces Alfred and it gave me real pause - you're describing a loneliness that feels inscribed into the experience of queerness in a way that's on a whole other level from wherever my alienation originates

― Pengest & Corsa (Noodle Vague),

Thanks, NV. Here'st he piece if anyone's interested.

Hugs to posters.

I co-host a weekly potluck with friends that has been going on for 7 or 8 years, and I really can't recommended it enough. The consistency is the most important thing...everyone who would normally be too busy to make plans can factor it in and make time, it's always the same day/time. It's a nice way for us 30-somethings to see each other every week instead of constantly trying to make plans to meet at restaurants or whatever.

Life just gets better as you go on.

lol

Having just turned 46, looked back for my last entry on the thread and found this a couple of years ago:

Definitely downshifting on various fronts, only been to a few shows this year, etc. etc. Not complaining, though -- the part of me that was always "I'd rather just chill and read/listen/whatever at home" is now feeling plenty justified, while I still have lot of great show memories anyway.

This was about six months before my SF move, and generally speaking it carried through even up here -- I have much greater access to a wide variety of really, really good acts, touring and otherwise, in many fields, just from living in the city itself. But even combined with the fact I'm offered passes and guest lists as a matter of course now -- hooray being an established writer, I guess -- I don't do that as much as I thought I might. I've missed a few things I regret but I'm not really bummed about it. Funnily enough, though, over the next few months I'm already seeing something like...seven, eight shows to come? More? That's more that's been on my calendar for a while.

As for loneliness, not really a factor -- Kate and I are pretty content to chill at home, and we catch up with a variety of friends, hers and mine, as we do, including my sis, who also lives in the city. This said I do miss the weekly visit to dear friends down in OC that I did pretty much every Friday night when I was there, but nobody's really replaced that. Said some more about this on another thread revival lately, I think. I agree with Jordan re consistency, and I'm thinking of a bit of something along those lines for the near future that a few friends have expressed interest in -- I think it'll be enjoyable for us all.

hey Ned are you going to Teenage Fanclub at the Great American

Not really fully prepared to talk about the manifestations of loneliness, even though I have a couple of close male friends I can genuinely talk to, whom I see pretty regularly (I'm 46). But I can highly recommend deleting oneself from Facebook if you are as compulsive a checker as I was, even though I only posted once a month or so. Didn't realise the pall it cast over my life until it was gone.

xpost -- Never really was a huge fan as such. Britta Phillips is all right, but otherwise, giving it a pass.

But I can highly recommend deleting oneself from Facebook if you are as compulsive a checker as I was, even though I only posted once a month or so. Didn't realise the pall it cast over my life until it was gone.

I haven't deleted myself from there or Twitter but refocusing how I use the sites has helped immensely in terms of relaxation and focus.

I can't tell if my behavior is dictated more by my being 42 or being Gen X. That is, am I yelling some equivalent of "get off my lawn!" because I am old, or because Gen X is just weird that way? Probably both.

Anyway. Married with kids has put a damper on some stuff, but by and large my most pain in the ass, hard to pin down friends are the ones *without* kids. Like, my friends married with kids, it's really not that hard to find someone to grab a beer. But my solo friends? Man, they suck, it is so hard to get them to commit to an outing. And it's so hard to care myself about their problems. Because I am 42? Because Gen X? Because married with kids and they're not? Probably the last. Like, my older one is 12 and in 7th grade, I don't give a fuck about your stupid single life problems.

I go through these weird scenarios in my mind while I'm doing pointless yard work.

Like, today, I was gathering up rocks for this rock garden project I've decided will be this year's summer project. Looking for those pink and yellow feldspar ones, you know? And if you think all that sounds crazy, you should see how I must look - walking around my property with two buckets, gathering up rocks.

And at one point, I imagined my son asking me in the future as I'm dying, "Where's the money, Dad? Tell us before it's too late." And I'm all, What money? I never had any money. He says, "You must've buried it somewhere. You can't take it with you, so just tell us where you put it." I reply, I KNOW I can't take it with me, believe me.

How people who are dying let go of things a little bit at a time. The day before, they don't care what's for dinner. The month before, they forget about what bills are due. Maybe six months before, they give up worrying about renewing their newspaper subscription.

And 35 years prior to that? They let go of seeing their friends every week and what the neighbors think of their blue buckets bought from the dollar store.

I am so unsocial now compared to myself 20 years ago. Especially within the last year or so. Like to the point where I almost hate it now. I make myself reach out to friends now & then to catch up, but it's just so much quieter & nicer at home & everywhere is loud & annoying

I think I have an actual undiagnosed hearing problem at this point

we've lived where we live for 8 years now and it's weird to see so many married people we know break up over that time period. i never really knew so many married people before. i used to just read about divorce in the paper.

also weird that i wasn't 40 when this thread started and i am turning 49 this year...........................................

See you in 12 years!

Yeah, didn't realize I posted in this thread 10 years ago. See you in 2 years.

i don't like going out much at night at all. but life has been extra life-like for months now and i need my energy during the day. i'm hoping it doesn't become a permanent thing though. i've always been a house cat but i have definitely been really happy when i have gone to things that it would have been really easy to not go to. i'm missing a good show tonight in town and tons of friends will be there and i'm trying to not make myself feel bad about it.

i always make time to dance with bob though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhCwM9Ebawk

But my solo friends? Man, they suck, it is so hard to get them to commit to an outing. And it's so hard to care myself about their problems. Because I am 42? Because Gen X? Because married with kids and they're not? Probably the last. Like, my older one is 12 and in 7th grade, I don't give a fuck about your stupid single life problems.

it's because you're an asshole and they don't actually want to hang out with you

yeah the "if you don't have kids you can't even KNOW" look is not good

xpost If only it were that simple!

Oh, come on. I didn't mean it like being a dick, and it's not something I invoke. I just mean that there is a degree of priority on my part, to people totally reliant on me, that is a totally different kind of life compared to people without kids. Which is cool, kids are not the key to the universe. But we do all the same shit other people without kids do, just that the kids and attendant responsibility are always there. I don't know what's so bad about observing that. When a friend without kids says, man, I'm wiped, I don't know if I can get a beer, that's fine. But whether I go out or not, I know exactly when I am waking up in the morning, 7 days a week, and what is expected of me from more or less sunrise on.

what's so bad is " I don't give a fuck about your stupid single life problems." That's being a crummy friend. And also a dick.

Also dickish: assuming that if you don't have kids you don't have responsibilities that have you waking up 7 days a week and doing what is expected of you.

xxp fuck you

damn dude yr kids sound like a burden, maybe get rid of them

Man, you all are grouchy. But I'm honestly sorry I offended you.

gah, thread took an ugly turn.

what i notice is that olds = grouchy.

hey! I resemble that remark!

Like, my older one is 12 and in 7th grade, I don't give a fuck about your stupid single life problems.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 March 2017 01:30 (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Can't

Uh

Can't believe you can't get these ppl to spend time with u man

Oh right we got to that in between. Fair enough.

Remember that one thread that lex revived

That was fun

Mulling it over this morning, I definitely expressed myself poorly, and was therefore misconstrued appropriately. I meant nothing personal, if that's (at least) where offense was given. I was just being flip, writing extemporaneously, because internet. I thought we were writing about the challenges of going out and hanging with friends as we get older, and I did a bad job conveying that kids can be a constant complicating consideration. That's all I meant.

So to the article I didn't finish reading: why is this not an equally significant problem for women?

motion detectors?

The main suggestion was that women are happy just to talk to each other (onj the phone, in person, over coffee) whereas guys need to DO something (watch sport, play records, ride bikes).

Key line for me was the one about photos of female friends being face-to-face but photos of male friends being side-by-side.

Josh, I know exactly how you feel. The "if you don't have kids you can't even KNOW" look may not sound good but most people with kids have been (slash are) there.

People with kids don't have more problems or complications than those who don't; the latter have different problems and complications on the same order of magnitude.

maybe one difference being that if you don't have children and fuck up, children (probably) don't suffer

i don't have kids but totally empathize w/ josh's parental frustration

but we don't have to look fwd to having our kids curse us in the unlivable dystopia of 2030

maybe one difference being that if you don't have children and fuck up, children (probably) don't suffer

unless you're Simon of the Desert, fucking up will affect a companion, nieces and nephews, siblings, or friends.

man, you guys have no imaginations.

yeah, let's be fair, people without kids are just as good at fucking up the world as people with kids.

Man, you all are grouchy. But I'm honestly sorry I offended you.

― Josh in Chicago

ban "sorry i offended you" from the english language

i'm not offended at what you said but i also usually try to make an effort to not complain about people with kids who can't talk about anything else but their kids

i do feel like there are certain pressures and fears that are unique to parenthood though. not having kids makes a LOT of things easier. depression, substance abuse, overeating, sloth, lethary, ennui, etc. all much easier hobbies to cultivate when childless.

"lethargy"

i was too tired to finish that word...

I've been tempted to use the "got kids" argument before, but then I see on Facebook other parents my age taking their kids to club shows, shooting pool with them in some rec room, or ziplining across the Ozarks with them. That's when I realize, Boy, I'm doing a real shitty job of raising these kids, maybe I ought to just go out and get a beer. They can play Roblox while I'm gone.

it only just occurred to me that ilx is one of the very very few things that has remained constant in my life, which either highlights the number of new goals/jobs/friendships/interests/obsessions i've cycled through in the past ~15 years, exposes how many of those things i've run away from because i'm terrible at staying invested, or puts a spotlight on my unusual choice of anchors

definitely not the combative arsehole i used to be though, which could be me learning how to be less shit or perhaps just a 40s thing

People with kids can (sometimes) remember what life was like and how they felt before they had kids, maybe even empathise with people without kids. Because everyone who's got kids has not had kids at some point (albeit for different lengths of time in different situations). People without kids (generally) don't know what it's like to have kids, though. I don't think that's an outrageous thing to say.

(pplains always, always remember that social media is a studiously edited highlights reel; those people taking kids to club shows or whatever are feeding them mcnuggets or shouting at them or whatever at some stage; no one is perfect.)

I'm not saying having kids is some kind of holier-than-though martyrdom and we need huge amounts of credit and respect - fucking billions of people have done it, how hard can it be - but it very definitely has a different level of responsibility to it than not having kids, in my limited experience (35 years of not having kids, two and a bit of having them).

So to the article I didn't finish reading: why is this not an equally significant problem for women?

― SFTGFOP (El Tomboto), Friday, March 17, 2017 11:48 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What article? Is this something I would have expanded 288 posts in order to see?

At 40, approaching 41, I am definitely more boring but I usu don't think of it as an age thing, I think of how my job used to be unfulfilling and also conveniently located to social centers so I had lots of mental space & energy to give to socializing and I was closer to friends. Now I have this consuming career as a do-gooder that exhausts my emotional energy, and also my living space is nicer than ever before so it's appealing to stay home.

I also went out a lot more when I didn't have the internet at home AND I was mostly single, is my other takeaway. Now I can ilx from the comfort of my couch and I have a partner who makes dinner so....

unless you're Simon of the Desert, fucking up will affect a companion, nieces and nephews, siblings, or friends.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, March 17, 2017 5:55 AM (eighteen minutes ago)

sure, maybe, but then again: tiny, helpless peoplets whose health & well-being depend entirely on you

I've got several bartenders whose health and well being depend entirely on me.

"I'm not saying having kids is some kind of holier-than-though martyrdom and we need huge amounts of credit and respect - fucking billions of people have done it, how hard can it be - but it very definitely has a different level of responsibility to it than not having kids"

it's just simple math. more people makes things more complicated. if you're fucked up and have problems on your own or with your partner it can be tough and i've been there and its no fun but i've also been fucked up and had problems and had to to tell children that everything was okay and going to be all right and make sure they were safe and me fucked up on my own or with a partner was a LOT easier. it's like that old saying: being a parent is like fucking fred astaire backwards. i think i'm remembering that correctly...

the kid-haver and non-kid-haver chasm can't really be reconciled imo, I agree with Soto that they're separate demos with equal but distinct sets of issues

simpler != easier imo

but being alone sucks too. i dunno, pain is pain. it sucks no matter what. kids/family can actually give you strength to get out of something bad that might be harder to get out of when you are alone.

only thing is though kid havers know what it's like to be a non-kid-haver but non-kid-havers don't know what it's like to be a kid-haver

That's not even true. Plenty of childless folks out there, esp women, who had a heavy hand in raising younger siblings

i'm mostly just jealous of people who don't have kids. i wouldn't advise anyone to have them. sometimes i feel like an accidental parent. i'd never even held a baby until i had one.

Which is why I said 'generally'.

xp(s)

IO: I mean the article that mookie revived the thread with. Yes it's above the line now.

My larger point is that the real error here is trying to make any kind of "there are only two kinds of people in the world" call re: offspring is UNPRODUCTIVE and we are all correct that JiC should have considered his words more carefully

SS also coming around to a good point that kids can be a good prophylactic against other ills and anxieties

My last point: us parents definitely need to stop believing our own press sometimes

only thing is though kid havers know what it's like to be a non-kid-haver but non-kid-havers don't know what it's like to be a kid-haver

Kid-havers don't know what it's like to want very much to have kids but never get to, or to spend a life convinced that it would be unwise to reproduce cause you're just too much of a fuckup, or (etc). Again, chasms.

haha well, let's just say the first part of that post is true and the second part isn't necessarily true

xpost re: banning "I'm sorry I offended you," I completely agree. It was honestly written in the spirit of "I offended you, I'm sorry," but again, poorly phrased.

Re: kids, I wasn't trying to make a distinction of superiority, just, like I said, constancy. I think people with and without kids deal with many of the same problems and frustrations, but the former also has to deal with absolute dependents - they're always there, and always need help, and therefore can be physically/emotionally exhausting in a way quite different from adults. Any choices I make, anything I want to do, from now and for the next many years, the kids will always be a consideration, a constant.

In terms of getting out, being social, it's hard to say whether most of our friends are married with kids because we are married with kids, and therefore we are all on the same wavelength, or because, as one gets older, many people tend to get married and have kids. I do know that, per someone above, I have hit the stage where a small handful of people I know are getting separated and/or divorced, which is another factor of getting older, I suppose.

Anyway, my kids are great, my life is great, I'm pretty happy. But I am also constantly reminded of sacrifices I have made for the sake of the family as a whole, sacrifices that have not necessarily directly made my life better but which have made *our* life better, which in a round about way ultimately makes my life better, just with some residual regret, resentment, etc., because we're not robots. Per Scott, I feel you, I hadn't given kids much thought before I had them, and the transformative experience in every sense is nothing I could have ever imagined.

i'm mostly just jealous of people who don't have kids. i wouldn't advise anyone to have them. sometimes i feel like an accidental parent. i'd never even held a baby until i had one.

― scott seward, Saturday, 18 March 2017 00:44 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we have three nieces, one of whom we're pretty close to; it's nothing like having actual kids but it's great to be involved in their lives and be able to hand them back at the end of the day

haha well, let's just say the first part of that post is true and the second part isn't necessarily true

Ha, OK, fair.

the end of that hermit article above is OTM by the way:

And once, when he was in an especially introspective mood, Knight seemed willing, despite his typical aversion to dispensing wisdom, to share more of what he gleaned while alone. Was there, the journalist asked him, some grand insight revealed to him in the wild?

Knight sat quietly but he eventually arrived at a reply.

“Get enough sleep,” he said.

He set his jaw in a way that conveyed he wouldn’t be saying any more. This was what he’d learned. It was, without question, the truth.

“Get enough sleep,” he said.

OTM.

OTM on a sad 40s thread anyway.

but maybe in general. it makes a world of difference!

Especially for kids, as you know.

the north pond hermit! i know quite a few people who claim to have felt his burgling touch. probably just raccoons, though.

“Get enough sleep,” he said.
OTM.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, March 17, 2017 9:54 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^

But my solo friends? Man, they suck, it is so hard to get them to commit to an outing. And it's so hard to care myself about their problems. Because I am 42? Because Gen X? Because married with kids and they're not? Probably the last. Like, my older one is 12 and in 7th grade, I don't give a fuck about your stupid single life problems.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:30 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh man, i couldn't disagree more. i LOVE hanging w/ out my single friends, it's a break from being a parent for me, sometimes i don't really want to talk about my kids, and when we hang w/ married parents i feel like we talk about our kids 90% of the time. i need that too but i gain a lot from separating myself from that part of my identity and connecting w/ friends who have different life experiences and w/ whom i can talk about other things besides being a parent

this group of guys i've been hanging out w/ every couple of fridays that i mentioned earlier itt, two of us are dads and the other two are single and it is such a nice balance to have

my single friends are definitely up for hanging out more, send more "hey do you want to see a movie tonight" texts or do more informal spontaneous things, and i wish i could participate more. im always the one that has to say "how about this friday two weeks from now"

xpost Oh, I totally agree! I love hanging with my single friends, for those reasons and more In my poorly worded post I think I was just talking about trying to meet up. Like, if I can find a way to make it work with kids, then surely they can find a way to make it work without kids. I think that's all I was trying to get at.

Kid-havers don't know what it's like to want very much to have kids but never get to

As an adoptive parent who will never have biologically-related children, fuck this.

I wasn't excluding adoption! Not everyone gets to adopt, either.

amazed that so many childless people have trouble saying, "parenting is something i can't fully understand and which clearly entails a unique sort of responsibility."

it's not hard to grasp, and there isn't much room for debate. nor should such words trigger a defense of your own choices, stresses and responsibilities. it's just one of those "way of the world" things.

My point is that we didn't go through pregnancy, which is still the default image people have when they talk about "having kids" and one of the first things other mothers engage my wife on when chatting about motherhood. You are in the club but... not really. The way that all of our social constructs deal with family and parenthood, you are constantly reminded that you didn't bear those children yourself. You get the experience of parenthood and raising children without experiencing the "universal" thing that everyone assume people with kids have gone through. (And, for medical reasons I'm not going to get into, we will never have biologically-related children, let alone go through pregnancy; that experience is forever closed to us.)

Basically, "having kids" is not this monolithic experience where everyone got there the same way and had the same experiences.

yeah for sure

Dan, appreciate your input on this. Honestly, pregnancy as part of parenthood was, as weird as it sounds, something I had never really thought much about. But my brain is pretty foggy on that experience at this point.

Came to post about adoption (a friend is likely to be introduced to his adopted kid within the next couple of days; another friend adopted around when we got pregnant), and also just people who have massive difficulty conceiving for years and experience miscarriages and so on and so forth and then do manage to have a kid (both of my brothers and their partners). There are almost infinite permutations.

But DJP got there first and knows way more about it.

I assume you don't really have to think all that much about pregnancy as part of parenthood if a) you're the guy and b) the pregnancy was relatively easy/standard. 90% of the time the first question my wife gets from other mothers when they see the twins is "omg how was THAT pregnancy?"; the other 10% is "how did you manage breastfeeding?"

This is turning into a rant for I Love People-Making so I'll stop now.

Man, I went to an adoption meeting a few months ago (my partner and I are trying to adopt) and it was super-dispiriting, but I guess a good reality jolt to find that out. We're still gonna try though.

but being alone sucks too

It can, except for the part where i'm grateful that kids aren't driving me out of my goddamn mind

rlly i like kids (sometimes) but never had the vaguest notion i'd ever take care of one

The adoption permutations really are remarkable. I know people who had IVF, unsuccessful IVF then adopted, unsuccessful IVF then got pregnant, fostered kids they later adopted after deciding not to have biological kids, adopted kids, adopted because they couldn't have kids and then had a surprise kid, had several adoptions fall through at the last minute, have been involved with ugly legal stuff vs. biological parents after adopting, and so on, all scenarios with their own unique challenges.

I also had a close friend with a three-year old son who had spontaneous identical female triplets. When I tell that story to friends I can see the fear in their eyes. My friend, almost overnight, had to get a night nurse, have a parent move in, get a new car and find a way to build an addition to the house.

xpost You're right on b) but I was very involved in my wife's pregnancy, and as a mostly stay at home dad and primary care giver was at least initially ostracized from the usual mostly-mom playgroups, who no doubt assumed I was "just" a dad and not the guy handling everything from diapers to dinner. On the plus side, I've learned to cook and clean, skills my parents somehow never taught me, so there's that.

i wasn't reacting to parents vs. not -- tbh i find my friends' kids pretty interesting and like hearing about the phases they go through. nor do i question that parenting is difficult and consuming. but here are some single-life 'problems' people may have: their dad has alzheimers. their mom is a hoarder. they're worried about losing their health care. their sister-in-law is an anti-vaxxer and won't let *her* kids get shots. etc. etc. these are real-life problems for real people that are supposed to be your friends, and having a seventh-grader doesn't make you a tragic hero watching everyone else skate through life. anyway, i wasn't offended, i just think you're a shitty 'friend'

very much enjoy learning what songs the little DJPs are into these days

not sure whether to crash this thread disrespectfully or if we need a separate thread about friendships. there really isn't a clear or vast gap between parents and not parents though and ppl insisting otherwise should ssshhh

xpost Appreciate you staying engaged and not being entirely put off by me. But you sort of misunderstood my point. All those problems you mentioned are problems faced by people with kids, too ... except we have kids. When my dad was dying of Alzheimer's, for example, I had to deal with that ... while dealing with the kids at the same time. And their sympathy and helpfulness only goes so far. That's what I meant by kids as constant. I didn't mean to downgrade anyone else's problems, and I don't. It's just that kids are a constant that often compounds problems that many of us have or face regardless.

"ostracized from the usual mostly-mom playgroups, who no doubt assumed I was "just" a dad and not the guy handling everything from diapers to dinner."

oh man i got the hairy eyeball so bad. nobody would even say hello to me at toddler groups i went to out of boredom. not one word. talk about feeling all alone in the world. this was almost 15 years ago though. hip beardo dads alone during the day with their toddlers and babies is normal now. it must be a little easier.

I imagine it's a bit better, but mums still ignore dads in a lot of my experience.

i was so miserable back then. had to hang out on ilx all the time just to get through it. that's how bad it was.

and my kids still ended up pretty happy and healthy! go figure.

We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be 'perfect' parents but from my observances you have to be trying pretty hard to fuck up your kids. As long as you love them and let them know that, it's OK to let them sit on the floor with an iPad while you make breakfast or whatever, rather than teach them to macrame blankets for homeless unicorns.

Okay I read the article, and lol at the question: "Why don't women seem to go through the same thing?" Because

My wife and I also have other couples we like and see often. It’s easy to fall into the trap of believing that’s good enough — and for many men it is, at least until their spouse gets the friends in the divorce.

The wives are probably the one making the plans in those couples, and being the social glue that "gets" their husbands out doing stuff. Oh good just what I always wanted, to be someone else's social social secretary.

Planning anything takes great initiative, and if you have to take initiative every time you see someone, it’s easy to just let it disappear.

https://i.imgflip.com/vugc6.jpg

When you have a gap in your schedule, you feel bad running off with the fellas and leaving your partner alone to look for the shoes.

Yeah, this -- spending time with your buds means handing extra work to your spouse and there are actual good reasons not to do this (especially since 90% of all dads, myself not excluded, are doing this in innumerable small ways unrelated to their social life)

Like, it would be nice if it said "Every Wednesday have a beer with your guys but also you make dinner for the kids that night before you go out"

This is the bit where I point out that I do all the cooking in our house. Breakfast, lunches, dinners. All of it. Well, 95%.

Today I took Em a pancake in bed, cos she gets an extra 20-40 minutes in bed each morning while I take Nora downstairs for breakfast.

When you have a gap in your schedule, you feel bad running off with the fellas and leaving your partner alone to look for the shoes.

^^ the phenomenon I most observe with married couples.

This is the bit where I point out that I do all the cooking in our house. Breakfast, lunches, dinners. All of it. Well, 95%.

I do too, but the point is there's more that you don't do, unless you are the most unusual of husbands, and this article is about usual husbands.

eephus & in orbit otm

i get up with kids in the morning and get them ready and make lunches and i make all dinners mostly. this helps make up for getting out of all kinds of stuff by being the only employee in a store all day all week.

irl lol @ orbit's Prince pic but then I got sad because... Prince

it was too easy to let him disappear.

When you have a gap in your schedule, you feel bad running off with the fellas and leaving your partner alone to look for the shoes.

this is absolutely thing and is the kinda thing that just gets woven into the fabric of yr relationship w yr partner ime. I get my weekly night out for music, she gets her weekend morning yoga session, etc. Trade-offs, compromises, shared responsibilities, mutual respect for others' needs are an essential part of a functional relationship. for my part I think my wife and I both try hard to be accommodating - last night she went out for a drink w some girlfriends on relatively short notice and I stayed home and put the kids to bed, it was no big deal.

(also if we're doing competitive dad-boasting here Sick I also do 95% of the cooking and give the wife extra hrs sleeping in on the weekend - which tbh is no big deal cuz I am one of those horrible people who wakes up w the sun anyway, no matter what)

Trade-offs, compromises, shared responsibilities, mutual respect for others' needs are an essential part of a functional relationship.

yea this is pretty right on

Uergh. I also wake with the sun. But that's not age, I've been like that for 15 years.

oh I've been like that my whole life

Yeah, I've always been a morning person too. I'm one of those weirdos who wakes up 10 minutes before my alarm goes off. I let it go off anyway, though, because it's a really loud submarine klaxon sound and my building has thin walls, and my horrible neighbors hate it.

DST has been rougher going the last few years, but, yeah, I'm up before 7 a.m. on weekend mornings too. The only time in my life I slept till noon was the morning after Grad Nite.

rising early is for suckers

It was great when I was cycling lots pre-Nora - I'd be on the road at 6am on summer weekends and have 30 miles done and be home for 9.

I had had this problem of waking up at 5 am lately.

Monday I wake up, look at the clock, and it's 6. Finally, DST's working out for me.

Tuesday morning, I wake up at 5 am again.

Anyone else occasionally take melatonin? I think it's one of those supplements that work for some but not for others. Fortunately, it works for me.

i just read that if you take melatonin in the MORNING it makes you feel like you had a good night's sleep and gives you more energy. which seemed crazy to me but what do i know.

Really? It puts me to sleep within the hour. Though maybe that is just because I sometimes take it at night when I am already tired.

i love staying up late and hate going to bed and hate getting up in the morning but when i go to bed at a reasonable hour and get 8 hours i feel 400% better. so i try. to go to bed earlier than i want to.

"The clock in your brain doesn’t just take cues from light, but from the hormone melatonin as well. Every night, about two to three hours before you conk out, your brain starts to secrete melatonin in response to darkness. Taking a melatonin supplement in the evening will advance your internal clock and make it possible to fall asleep earlier; taking it in the morning will do the opposite. (You might assume this would make you even more tired during the day but it won’t; you could think of it as tricking your brain into believing you slept longer.)"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/opinion/sunday/can-sleep-deprivation-cure-depression.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

Wow! I need to try that. Trader Joe's sells these awesome minty melatonin pills.

I'm a weirdo that gets up at 4:15 almost every morning. Mostly to do things that would normally impact my family time. Much easier to do it when they are still asleep.

I took melatonin during the great tinnitus insomnia freakout of 2012, didn't do shit for me

I've been using melatonin here and there lately

my circadian rhythm is all fucked up and in the wrong time signature though and I think it's been that way for years

my natural state is staying up until 2am or 3am and getting up at some point between 10:30 and noon. Once I was able to get a job situation that worked with that schedule, I had a lot more energy, which still feels like less energy than I had in my 20s, but only having to set an alarm maybe once every other week ... it is the life.

the past few days, I've spent time with friends my age and the topic of, "I just don't feel like going to shows anymore" came up.

in my profession nobody young gets jobs anymore so despite being in my early 40s I'm still often the youngest person at work / work events. that's one way to feel young, I guess.

the past few days, I've spent time with friends my age and the topic of, "I just don't feel like going to shows anymore" came up.

I suspect most of us go through this. In my case, now that I've settled into a 'asleep by 10 pm, awake at 5 or so' pattern -- which I am totally good with, I should add -- the prospect of standing around suffering through not-that-great openers for a band I really want to see only for them to start around midnight...yeah, not really.

That said this Wednesday I am doing just that (though hopefully with better openers) with the James Chance show, because when else am I going to catch him, I figure. Mind you it helps that I'm just two blocks from the venue. Otherwise to my slight surprise I have a slew of shows coming up over the next few months I already have tickets for -- but I'm also not surprised the majority will be on Friday and Saturday nights.

can't believe an *the opening bands are done you can go to the show now* app for phones isn't a thing yet.

which would be mean, but still....

The fact that 90 percent of metal shows are now in Brooklyn, not Manhattan, makes the decision not to attend a whole lot easier. I have a bunch of upcoming jazz shows bookmarked on my calendar, but those are on-a-whim kind of things. (It's not like they'll be sold out.)

can't believe an *the opening bands are done you can go to the show now* app for phones isn't a thing yet.

I would go so far as to invest via their IPO.

I still like going to shows but sometimes wonder if I am too old to go to them anyway.

This is less of a problem going to see old punk bands because there's usually quite a few people there older than me.

Also I frequently get told I look younger than I actually am, which is probably not always just flattery because I got ID'd for booze a couple of weeks ago. So I can probably get away with being the old guy at the show for a while longer.

Man, the number of times I've called clubs to ask specifically when the headliner goes on ...

That said this Wednesday I am doing just that (though hopefully with better openers) with the James Chance show

I think about 90% of the members of the opening bands for that show are friends of mine so ....

Then I will happily take that as a sign!

This afternoon I lunched with my closest friend and his kid while his wife was doing her thing. I had just gotten out of a morning showing of Get Out. I spent the rest of the afternoon writing and reading. L-I-V-I-N, man.

it's amazing how many npr-ish white people i know went to see/can't wait to see Get Out and i know for a fact they would never go see a horror movie otherwise in a million years. it's the white liberal feel good movie of the season! i mean my father-in-law's wife really wants to see it and she hates horror movies with a passion. she hates most popular things. she's nice though. she once asked me why people watch horror movies.

Lock her in the cellar with the shining and a good sound system and she'll be pounding on the door to get out

i'm talking people who don't even own television sets. deep western mass hempfolk. they are all about this movie like i haven't seen in a long time.

it's amazing how many npr-ish white people i know went to see/can't wait to see Get Out and i know for a fact they would never go see a horror movie otherwise in a million years. it's the white liberal feel good movie of the season! i mean my father-in-law's wife really wants to see it and she hates horror movies with a passion. she hates most popular things. she's nice though. she once asked me why people watch horror movies.

bet they'd be approaching Peele, holding glasses of wine, asking him how he did it

"So, Jordan, how long were you working on this...this thang?"

Lol

Get Out (Of The Shareholders' Reception

I didnt know there were this many bits of me that could ache all at once urrrgh :(

now every slightly new semi-inexplicable health thing makes me think, "Is it perimenopause?"

Yeah same. Ugh the sweatttinnnngg.

I don't know if it's normal sweating or _that_ sweating

is it a side-effect of standard circulation issues from being a regular smoker for 20+ years, that I think I'm cold so I dress warmer for bed and use more blankets and then sweat at night because I'm actually too warm or is it .... the change?

my spouse asked me for a glass of 7-up. i poured it for her and was about to start drinking it when she snatched it away from me. (we've been married long enough that she could tell i was about to drink it by the way i was looking at it.) she says i'm too young to be as forgetful as i am. i disagree.

in the meantime my shins have been aching all day. i don't know why. i've been packing and have taken much trouble not to throw out my back, and instead my shins start acting up. this isn't just aging, i'm genuinely in horrible physical condition, but part of being 40+ is having these pains and just not having any idea why.

I had a broken ankle in my 30's and the piece of metal holding it together gives me some awful pain these days, and I do a shitload of walking. I'm also paranoid about all the asbestos I've been exposed to, whenever i get short of breath i think "here it fucking comes". But apart from some troubling elements like these I much prefer being an old tosser. I was in some terrible places in my younger days, kinda perversely happier now than I've ever been. I just need to start another sentence with I.

i haven't had a cigarette since new years eve. longest i've ever gone in 30 years. i do the nicotine lozenges though. now i am down to lozenges/caffeine/sugar. no booze. no drugs. no smokes. i kinda dig it though. going outside to smoke 20+ times a day took a lot of time out of my day! i feel more productive.

I'm down to under a pack a day!

scott well fucking done!!!

sarah ime smoking less was even harder - way harder - than not smoking at all. ymmv obv

is it a side-effect of standard circulation issues from being a regular smoker for 20+ years, that I think I'm cold so I dress warmer for bed and use more blankets and then sweat at night because I'm actually too warm or is it .... the change?

Tbh I wake up sweaty a lot and I think I've figured out that it's the fact that I probably have had to pee for a long time but I'm deeply asleep and every muscle in my body is tense with holding back. After I get up and pee at like 5am I'm fine.

^ same here, like clockwork almost every morning

I know I sweat a lot more when Ive been overdoing the booze. But generally yeah I'm guessing its crone time, ha.

i had never heard of jenny slate and thought chris evans was the guy from parks and recreation

/morbs

another sign you're old is when you hear about Jenny Slate and Chris Evans and instead of being like RATS, WHY NOT ME you're like oh that is really cute, I hope they make it last, their scions would probably be adorable and mostly well-adjusted.

I have zero idea who those people are.

i don't think they're goths, so

Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Captain America, respectively.

Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Captain America, respectively.

I mostly know her from Married, where she played Paul Reiser's hard-partying, too-young-for-him wife.

She's the actress who said "Fuck" on SNL, right?

I know who Jenny Slate is and have greatly enjoyed her work on screens large and small and on audio, but did not know why mookie was mentioning her and now gather from Tombot's posts that she has dumped her husband for a guy that plays Captain America in something

Jenny Slate broke up with Chris Evans (Captain America) though?

I liked her in Married...

She got divorced, then dated Chris Evans for a while, and is now single again. Details here.

"plays Captain America in something"

lol ok Tuomas

I know him from the time he shouted "NAME IT, BITCH!" at Leonard Maltin on Doug Benson's podcast

it seemed so unlike you to admit to not knowing a thing, i was confused

Marcel the Shell with Shoes On

What what in the whattywhat? :/

Also mookie: oi!

okay i had to google the shell thing and i really wish i still didn't know what it was. so annoying.

watching her do that voice on conan is really embarrassing too.

Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Captain America, respectively.

― Not the real Tombot (El Tomboto), Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:03 PM (six hours ago)

I still have no idea who these people are

Jenny Slate was on SNL for one season and said "fuck" on live television, which contributed to her one season. She also did the character Tina Tina Chaneuse who sold custom doorbells and car horns that were her voice saying dumb things, which for some reason consistently cracked me up. She also played Jon Ralphio's sister on Parks and Recreation.

Chris Evans plays Captain America in the Avengers movies. He also played Human Torch in the Fantastic Four movies with Jessica Alba and Michael Chiklis and was one of the ex-boyfriends in Scott Pilgrim vs The World. He also was the lead in Snowpiercer. His uncle is my representative in the House.

Jenny Slate was funny on Kroll Show.

His uncle is my representative in the House.

Wait hold on

Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Captain America, respectively.

― Not the real Tombot (El Tomboto), Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:03 PM (six hours ago)

I still have no idea who these people are

― sarahell, Wednesday, March 22, 2017 2:49 AM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

me neither

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Capuano

he rules

this discussion makes me feel young and spritely

none of these people seem at all cool -- I feel legitimately cooler having been ignorant of their existence

I still have no idea who these people are

^^^ also I don't really even care.

i had a dream about jenny slate & chris evans last night, hate u guys

A good dream or

I can't wait to old the shit out of ILM in 60 weeks or so. WHO THE HELL IS THE WEEKND IM PRETTY SURE IM COOL FOR NOT KNOWING THE ANSWER

You kids today with your streaming services and

gonna imgur the fuck out of my case logics, one page at a time

wait they had the SAME guy play the human torch AND captain america? that's so dumb.

it was a pretty boring dream :(

tbh when i first heard jenny slate's name i thought is that . . . slate dot com's advice columnist?

i was not cool for not knowing the answer

do any of you get that "ehhhh, what do you know, you're young/a kid/etc..." from people in their 60s or older? hate that shit. makes me irrationally angry. maybe i just don't look adult enough. but i'm almost 50...and my back hurts...

it has taught me to try and not do that to people younger than me. and just treat adults like adults. and not talk down to kids. but sometimes i slip up.

48 used to be ancient.

scott I think the right thing to do is to say "hey man, I'm sorry you had to grow up with lead paint and leaded gas, but I'm only 12 years younger than you - thanks for all you did to clean up the environment so we don't have to breathe that shit any more"

ha, i do tend to get defensive. sometimes i'll ask them how old they are and then i'll say "eh, 66, that's not that old, i actually thought you were a lot older..."

this woman came in the store and she was so healthy looking and light on her feet and quick and i figured she was in her 70s and she told me she was 90! i couldn't believe it. and then she told me she had been a dance teacher. so, there you go, everyone start taking dance lessons.

http://i.imgur.com/Pz3n8l1.png

THEY'RE STILL BEING USED IN SHOE STORES. LOOK UNDER THE BENCH, IF YOUR BACK CAN HANDLE IT, OLD-TIMER.

Had a 50something co-worker pedagogically explain to the rest of us in the newsroom the other day how LEVON HELM from near HELENA was in THE BAND.

i have always thought that the whole "you're too young to remember that..." line of reasoning was the most demented thing on earth. i get it a lot obviously having to withstand countless boomers in my record store. but people really do believe that you had to be a certain age at a specific time to know what something is.

I am 40, and I know who Jenny Slate and Chris Evans are.

or more accurately they will say "you're too young to know who that is...". as if all knowledge of a person or thing just...stops?

it's all good though. it does teach me what not to do when talking to people.

unfortunately, i am at the age now where i think that most young actors are horrible and dumb and boring. which is kinda sad. broad city duo are heroes to me though. so i'm not a complete monster. there are definitely exceptions.

*makes old man breathing noises*

I am 51, and I know who Jenny Slate and Chris Evans are.

I would think Morbz knows who Jenny Slate is cuz of Obvious Child

slate was great on Married and is seriously hot imo

Publizity is the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLMDcJxwkr0

It's based on their names.

I'm 42 and I know it's based on their names.

I also like Mike Capuano

Mike Capuano rules

is there a thread for comedy things for people that hate 99% of all comedy things?

The Lex probably started one somewhere.

Who hates comedy, it's funny.

"There are two kinds of comedy. Good comedy, and the other kind." - Duke Ellington

I would think Morbz knows who Jenny Slate is cuz of Obvious Child

I did not see that film because I saw the trailer.