What is middlebrow?

the independent newspaper? literary theory? stephen fry? julie burchill?

oh dear, what a low brow comment

When you think about it, you could class almost EVERYTHING as middlebrow - with, say, only Keiji Haino as highbrow (minus the quiet, pastoral bits in the later work) and only the especially pornographic parts of Richard Allen's Skinhead novels as lowbrow. But this thought is really vile.

I don't think middlebrow exists.

ha ha ha, middlebrow diseases no 1: consumption

And andrew, sorry if that looked if I was being all 'ner ner' at you. I'm sure you came to that conclusion yourself re:Faulks. I was just trying to point out how often I hear it. Which may in fact prove its validity.

and Rickets a low brow one?

just curious......

I used to have 'dying of consumption' romantic fantasies as a (very young) girl, featuring the lovely heroine (me) in white frilly nightie with loving family gathered at my bedside spongeing my weary brow and spooning broth betwixt my feebly parted lips. I think I skipped the coughing up blood bit which is very unromantic.

Everything bequeathed to us from Victorians is actually middlebrow. So there.

N.B. I don't know what I'm talking about.

apart from toby jugs.

the way I see "middlebrow" working is more as something cultural that smoothly and neatly underlines a given set of liberal beliefs, that confirms a certain type of punter's received opinions. In this sense Victoriana is scarily off-kilter in that it plays on kitch rusticity / austere religion / jingoistic patriotism, a combination - to todays culturally middle classes - of the insane and the lowbrow?

Hrmmmm... why is it that middlebrow is such a great British insult? Middlebrow is the intellectual equivalent of being middleclass, in the way that the British view "middle class" as an insult. Mediums and middles are frowned upon, British culture likes only the extremes- the Upper Class (toffs! hate em!) and the Lower Class (to be aspired to, it seems...)

In the States, everyone *aspires* to being middle class, and middlebrow, not sticking out, being average, being normal, being homogenous and the same as everyone else.

Why is it bad? Is it the British fear of being average or worse yet... normal?

To be upper class, refined, elegant (the Dickon/Momus aesthetic) is an aspiration of the Bohemian. As is to be working class, to be honest, salt of the earth (the Gallagher/Ashcroft aesthetic). But to be middleclass? THat's the worst insult you can call a Bohemian, because of course, it's what we're all trying to escape. Hence middlebrow being the ultimage insult for us.

Sorry, British was a red herring, though class is not.

But it doesn't really matter anyway, right?

Cute, but the point is (I don't think) these people want to be writers for any 'look at me - I'm a writer, aren't I bohemian' reason. They want to actually WRITE impressive/important things that no one else is writing. That is intrinsically an individualist stance, no matter how many people it covers.

No, sorry, It's *SO* not. It's individual only in the "let's all be different together" aesthetic. My head is hurting from the paradox, but you're wrong. If they truly wanted to be so individual, they'd find some brave new way to excell that didn't involve such a hackneyed (har har) profession as writing.

And I'm saying "they" and that's not fair, because it's a "we". I am middle class, vaguely boho and have slight aspirations of writerhood. The most middle class thing in the world is to not want to be middle class. Just as middlebrow is something which strains to be both highbrow *and* lowbrow and fails at both.

there are interesting quirks in all culture. apart from the art of the third reich.

I rather sympathize with Dan's argument. Then again, PBS by its very nature defined a certain form of American middlebrow as I was growing up. ;-)

About 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon': It is low-brow. And enjoyably so. Though I must say, the first time I saw it at a small cinema, I considered it to be a middle-brow movie (lazy rool of thumb: Subtitles = middle-brow). Watching the dubbed version of it on video however - it's no different from 'Monkey!'. Daft, "I shall avenge my Father!!" dialogue and lengthy chop-socky scenes add up to simple, dumb fun.

Low/Middle/High brow as a way of measuring culture - well, anything 'difficult' immediately goes onto the High pile; all gauche, basic entertainment is labelled Low; then there's a vast open space inbetween for the Middle to roam. Which is the majority of culture.

Middle brow = nothing to be scared of (ILE/M = middle brow, surely).

Middlebrow = everything not on ILM or ILE.

I agree with Tom E that he shouldn't attack people for being middlebrow. What surprises me is that a critic as subtle as Tom E ever did.

Forthcoming anthology: TOM EWING: THE UNSUBTLE YEARS.

Alasdair: why did you suggest that literary theory was middlebrow? Or did you not?

Nick D: whence your vehemence re. writing, as vs being a writer? Are you trying to be a writer - sorry: to write? (If so, I'm interested.)

I'm not sure whether I appreciate Nick D's disdain (if that's what it was) for dinner parties where they listen to Travis. Presumably Nick D would rather listen to 'Daft Punk' and 'The Avalanches'. Having heard the latter on TotP, I can now state that both are rubbish. So are 'Air'.

Middlemarch: is that middlebrow?

Pinefox, I was just being snobbish. But I do remember my university days when every student was trying to ape a bit of bad yale deconstruction, and the yale deconstuction(ists?) were doing a cack handed job of showing off that they knew some bad translations of Derrida and friends. (see theodor gasche - "the tain in the mirror" for a more involved critique of the way deconstruction has been simplified and misunderstood by English depts - if you haven't already!)

New Historicism / Yale D's seem to me extremely middlebrow in that they simplify and corrupt elegant and abstruse philosophical ideas in the name of career progression - and most importantly - pretentiously pretend that they aren't. Others, e.g. Stanley Fish seem middlebrow in that he has one very, very simple, banal idea that he disguses with a wanky attitude. Please convince me otherwise though, and I'll try and do the same with you for Boards of Canada. ;-)

This is a very original idea. In a way it's almost Wildean: you're taking something which appears the reverse of middlebrow and saying it's middlebrow. I am almost convinced, on a 'cultural' level (bookshop shelves, etc). Well - to be honest, I'm not that convinced. But my failure to be convinced doesn't detract from the daring radicalism of the thought.

Fish is a special case. I used to think he was just terrible and dangerous, then I read him, and found that it was hard to maintain that belief. Fish re. middlebrow is an interesting case, but in a way a bad one for your argument: surely he would GLADLY ADMIT to being middlebrow? (Rorty even more so: I can imagine it now: "Hey! come on in, fellas! Stan'n'myself 're jus' havin' a Middlebrow Philosophy Barbecue right here! Lemme fix you a drink...")

By the way, what doesn't convince you? do you see De Man, Hillis Miller et al as in any way important thinkers?

Universities teaching Angela Carter = contemporary Edukaseeun but != Literary Theory. (I learned that != symbol from Josh K. Hope I've got it right.)

"His appearance as the first Jewish- American novelist to stand at the center of American literature is flanked by a host of matching successes on other levels of culture and subculture. What Saul Bellow is for highbrow literature, Salinger is for upper middlebrow, Irwin Shaw for middle middlebrow and Herman Wouk for lower middlebrow. Even on the lowbrow levels , where there has been no such truce with anti-semitism as prosperity has brought to the middle classes, two young Jews in contriving Superman have invented for the comic books a new version of the hero, the first purely urban incarnation of the most ancient of mythic figures. The acceptance of Bellow as the leading novelist of his generation must be paired off with the appearance of Marjorie Morningstar on the front vcover of Time. On all levels, teJew is in the process of being mythicized into the representative American."

"I the typical middlebrow novel, it was seldom a real Jew who was exposed to persecution; rather some innocent gentile who by putting on glasses mysteriously came to look Jewish or some high-minded reporter only pretending to be a Jew. In part what is involved is the commerical necessity for finding a gimmick to redeem an other overworked subject' but in part what is at stake is surely a confusion in the liberal, middlebrow mind about what a Jew is anyhow: a sneaking suspicion that Jew- baiting is real but Jews are imaginary, just as, to the same mind, witch-hunting is real but witches only fictions.."

Note phrase "what is at stake": Feidler is a BIG influence [ulp: what mean that?] on G.Marcus. When Marcus says Moby-Dick and Faulkner should be read in the light cast by Robert Johnson — which we are entitled to translate as Missy Elliott, if not Beyoncé Knowles — this is a Feidler trope, the first lit-crit to see what Pop Art as a radical shift actually meant in writing. Since we live after this shift, where LF was — here — writing DURING it, I don't know if this helps or hinders the argt that the concept is too damaged today to be usable. (I think I use it a lot: Spice Girls yay, Stockhausen yay, Martin Amis snore...)

On the term: it would be worth a trawl through Queenie Leavis's FICTION & THE READING PUBLIC and contemporary works (that one was 1932). But maybe it doesn't get past low/high.

Low Brow novels and films = no plot, all action.

Why unwelcome, Mark: Zodiac Mindwarp is ALWAYS welcome, you know that.

2) Middle-brow = simplified version of above

3) Low-brow = popular

This seems to cover it. Consumers of 3) see 1) and 2) as irrelevant. Consumers of 1) tend to look down on 2) and sometimes on 3). Consumers of 2) are nervous re: 1) and look down on 3). All of them are thus proved to be tossers.

Classic example of middle-brow = almost everything that passes for "literary" fiction in the UK today (Amis, Self, I can't bear to name any more). It's the genre of fiction that pretends it's the very definition of fiction, rather than just an alternative to detective novels, for example.

There is of course nothing wrong with anything which is perceived to be in any of the categories as such. It's the social practices / critical discourses associated with them that are so insufferable.

the word's been thrown around (including by me) on the ilm klosterman thread. i think klosterman's middlebrow in the sense defined by gareth many posts and five years ago -- "sturdy, meaningful, but easy to digest." but made me kind of wonder about who else/what else in current/recent culture might qualify. sex in the city, maybe? wynton marsalis? david sedaris (mentioned above) seems like a good call. david brooks, obviously. (he wrote an ode to middlebrow last year, i think.) (although he probably thinks of himself as at least upper-middlebrow.) kanye west. spielberg when he's being "serious." asian fusion food. i haven't read jonathan franzen except for an essay or two, but i have a suspicion he might be an upper-middlebrow guy who is intensely aware of his middlebrowness and striving for highbrow (hence his oprah-phobia). anyway. just wondering.

Graham Greene and Billy Wilder in one sentence!

I think this is exactly it, actually.

Arnold claimed to come from the Philistine class himself, "the great middle part of the English nation".

What could be more middlebrow than referring you to the Wikipedia definition of Philistinism?

two fine middlebrows.

lowbrow is highbrow's hero.

lowenbrau is their drink of choise.

Yeah but being anti-McMansions and anti-Starbucks and anti-SUVs and anti-Bush and considering that to comprise an ideology is its own kind of middlebrow.

Hawaii

man ned was really aching to talk about his unibrow

Hrmmmm... why is it that middlebrow is such a great British insult? Middlebrow is the intellectual equivalent of being middleclass, in the way that the British view "middle class" as an insult. Mediums and middles are frowned upon, British culture likes only the extremes- the Upper Class (toffs! hate em!) and the Lower Class (to be aspired to, it seems...)

In the States, everyone *aspires* to being middle class, and middlebrow, not sticking out, being average, being normal, being homogenous and the same as everyone else.

Why is it bad? Is it the British fear of being average or worse yet... normal?

― Kate the Saint, Friday, July 20, 2001 1:00 AM (12 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Is this correct? Is middlebrow as an insult more common in Britain than the US?

I would say that 'middlebrow' is used as an insult only from the mouths of those who feel a strong identification with 'the greats' and believe that only such art as aspires to this elite standard ought to be considered worth one's while. These same people instinctively feel that their worship of 'great' art places them on a footing only a little below the artists they adore, because they are the only recipients worthy of such gifts.

I would say the same applies to "middlebrow" aficionados but ymmv

I worry that I'm middlebrow

middlebrow= thinking you're above people who consume lowbrow art, but without putting the work in to engage with something genuinely challenging?

http://i.imgur.com/7jWO1Dm.gif

What is beating your children?

Be interesting to discuss further imo

It's one of those words that the use of which throws you in the people garbage bin for me, don't pass go and I'd wash my hands after.

don't need it now we've got "normie"

Or indeed 'centrist'

Jaccuse, nv

happy to accept. the plain reader be damned.

I like (to the point of embodying it lol) that Russian word, Poshlost

i think we shd maybe keep some distinction between "centrist" as "Tory without their kicking boots on" and "centrist" as "sociocultural normie" tho

normies are all fucking insane creeps imo

poshburger more like amirite

i might go so far as to say that "middlebrow" as a term of abuse purely for the mainstream or popular is bogus, but a useful word for certain kinds of popular sentimentalism that aspire or pretend to being deep or elevated tho.

and i say this as somebody who doesn't care much about popularity, depth or elevation. but we all know Oscar-bait when we see it.

also for example only an idiot really gets exercised about what cultural commodities other people like but it's ok to kick back a bit when somebody's beating you around the head with some worthless cultural commodity that they really like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7XfhTKRMw

normieness itself isn't so much the sweet joy of mundanity as a kind of aggressive promotion of it

I'll admit the conversation upthread is worthwhile

http://i.imgur.com/7jWO1Dm.gif

In the States, everyone *aspires* to being middle class, and middlebrow, not sticking out, being average, being normal, being homogenous and the same as everyone else.

― Kate the Saint, Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:00 PM (sixteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

this is the most hilarious observation of usa ever written on ilx

Son you don't wanna break that seal and I ain't askin

like a flower in bloom

dad

i'm middlebrow, mostly

Insofar as these terms mean anything coherent, I usually think of "normie" as referring to the most mainstream, broadly popular culture, rather than moderately popular culture with aspirations to or pretensions of intellectual sophistication, which is what "middlebrow" usually connotes to me. People vs The New Yorker.

Ah yes a famous case

key term is really "upper middle brow"

or the impactful "unibrow"

People vs The New Yorker.

where "highbrow" would refer to scholarly literary journals. In a world where Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize in Literature and people write dissertations on Lady Gaga, idk if this way of looking at things has any use, though.

Feels like middlebrow is like choosing to not take a side in the culture wars, feeling comfortable gliding between high and low without concern for judgment. Like how I might reference both Bosom Buddies and Forrest Gump in the same breath. Straddling the wide range of brows.

Which of those things is highbrow??

multibrow vs omnibrow: FITE!

Sund4r, I don't know if it made its way to your local art house, but Gump was a winner of multiple Academy Awards (aka highbrow movie prizes).

i think the oscars are as middlebrow as it gets. titanic? english patient? come on

american beauty lol

i still think that plastic bag was cool f the haterz

Middlebrow is a basic bitch.

Mmm, I'm not sure you understand. These are awards they give to the best movies of the year.

I might reference both pain olympics and the films of Lav Diaz in the same breath

the only things i remember from AB are the plastic bag and kevin spacey jerking it in the shower

Ha, Old Lunch

i still think that plastic bag was cool f the haterz

― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, March 2, 2018 10:34 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's the major reason i don't pick up trash on the sidewalk. Vaya con dios, bolsa de plastico.

lmao

that plastic bag should've won best supporting actress (yes plastics bags can be female sorry if that makes me an "SJW snowflake")

“Middlebrow” is a word for describing the tastes of people whose favorite director is Stanley Kubrick

I like to think of myself as more unibrow

“Middlebrow” is a word for describing the tastes of people whose favorite director is Stanley Kubrick Paul Thomas Anderson

Xp Oh of course someone already said that

Ox Gallstones for sale

'Middlebrow' is a word for describing the tastes of people who think the earlier Fast & Furious movies are better than the later Fast & Furious movies.

Old Lunch bringing the fire

Glad to have triggered this

to me "middlebrow" is something designed to appeal to a broad range of people. marvel movies are "middlebrow". so is doctor who. a symphony orchestra playing the beatles is "middlebrow".

in contrast "highbrow" is something designed to appeal to a specific cultural subgroup. the narrower the subgroup the more "highbrow" it is. expensive beer is "highbrow". lp reissues of library music are "highbrow". magazines with subscription-only websites are "highbrow".

lowbrow is tits, fart jokes, racism, and people being kicked in the nuts. it's possible for something to be "lowbrow" and "highbrow" or "middlebrow" at the same time.

a symphony orchestra playing the beatles is "middlebrow".

That's lowbrow, John Tavener is middlebrow.

... Brian Ferneyhough is highbrow. Etcetera.

P sure tits are not specific to any one cultural stratum

That's lowbrow, John Tavener is middlebrow.

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.)

relativism is middlebrow

Yeah but who is lowbrow designed to appeal to?

I don't have any John Tavener or Brian Ferneyhough, so I don't know where that leaves me. Am cool with tits though.

Yeah but who is lowbrow designed to appeal to?

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.)

people who like tits, farts, and watching people get kicked in the balls

also racists

i have no interest in brian ferneyhough but michael finnissy is good.

"Cassandra's Dream Song" is p cool imo.

More tits in highbrow stuff tbh

Only way they get ppl in

Anyway marvel is obv lowbrow

The scorching takes on marvel are middlebrow

Benny Hill>>Gaspar Noe>>Some fucking paedo>>Von Triehard

Anyway marvel is obv lowbrow

The scorching takes on marvel are middlebrow

Wait deems are you sleeping at all

Shakespeare simultaneously high and lowbrow

It's only half one mum

🤖

I resent the notion that lobrow is the sole province of racism. Like hibrow might as well be called whiteprivilegebrow, really.

And Marvel movies are at least somewhere between lo- and midbrow. Not very many farts or terds.

I think everyone has already told rushomancy that they are wrong tbf

Sorry, my response was delayed by the midbrow entertainment I was enjoying.

When are we going to address the elephant in the room

the circus?

The Elephant in the Room was a good movie, probably hibrow (black and white always helps). John Hurt didn't look much like an elephant to me, but a title that doesn't make sense is another hallmark of hibrow.

An interesting phenomenon, not much touched on yet, is when popular lowbrow entertainment is 'discovered' and reinterpreted into middlebrow or even highbrow terms, much as French intellectuals took Jerry Lewis movies and reframed them as works of high artistry and meat for the intellect. Or Warhol, Roy Liechtenstein, & the whole Pop Art movement. Or Marshall McLuhan. The lines between these distinctions are very shifty and impermanent.

lowbrow is highbrow all the time, whether the french get involved or not; it's only middlebrow that stays that way

Unlike its radio show, The New Yorker is not quite middlebrow. New York magazine is middlebrow.

An interesting phenomenon, not much touched on yet, is when popular lowbrow entertainment is 'discovered' and reinterpreted into middlebrow or even highbrow terms, much as French intellectuals took Jerry Lewis movies and reframed them as works of high artistry and meat for the intellect. Or Warhol, Roy Liechtenstein, & the whole Pop Art movement. Or Marshall McLuhan. The lines between these distinctions are very shifty and impermanent.

― A is for (Aimless)

or you know shakespeare