Fuck You, Michael Vick

ESPN's legal coverage, which does a pretty good job of breaking down the trial aspects.

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

seriously, if he did it, fuck this guy.

the feds are not going to build a high profile case like this without the goods. Vick is going down, and hopefully Arthur Blank will be able to cut him loose from the Worst Contract Ever.

Fucking dog killer.

Sometimes when you get a shitload of money it's a good idea to move past the crappy world you lived in before.

he was "keeping it real"

total scum bag

No, he wasn't. There are a TON of professional athletes, black men, and men raised in rural America who don't engage in the wholsale torture and slaughter of animals. This is not "keeping it real." This is keeping it crazy.

a note about Qyntel Woods, who's house was raided and who was suspended from the Trailblazers 3 years ago in a dogfighting investigation.

and the case of LeShon Johnson

xpost
no, i agree this guy is wacked for being involved in this at all. to even tolerate or associate with the creeps that do this sort of thing is despicable

You know, it's possible to (rightly) bag on the dude w/out having to make leading horseshit comments about him "keeping it real" or "(moving) past the crappy world (he) lived in before". Tho if we're going to be quoting that walking sack of ignorant shit Colin Cowherd, then by all means, let's go there, because it'll be a step up from dealing w/ the spew that asshat spits out.

THANK YOU BLAM

(for the xpost, that is)

A leading horseshit comment?

What a douche

David R or Vick?

I wonder how many of the smaller players made beeline yesterday to US Atty's office to trade testimony for immunity.

this is interesting, from the AP newswire a month ago:

Nike Turns Down Request to Sack Vick

19 June 2007

Nike has no plans to dump Michael Vick from its roster of celebrity athletes, turning aside a request from the national Humane Society to cut ties with the Atlanta Falcons quarterback over alleged ties to dogfighting.

I bet they'll be dropping him now.

Honestly I think that Nike is doing the right thing see: Duke rape case. Like to see some actual evidence, nowatimean.

read the indictment.

I think Nike is a company white people who read newspapers stopped buying products from about a decade ago, with the exception of golfers, who are their own class of shitbags and could care less about dogfighting. Oh, demography.

thank you, WSFA-TV in Montgomery, for running that particular graphic to accompany this story.

xxpost
i don't think you can't really compare this to the Duke case.

No, you can't, for one thing, Michael Vick is a black quarterback, cf the Wilbon article on how big this actually is in terms of context and circumstances

xxxx - yeah but an indictment is a charge, not a trial.

xx - Yes, you can compare it to the Duke case because charges were brought (as in this case) and there has been no trial (as in this case). I'm sure that the evidence is much stronger, but it must run its course, mustn't it?

Nike sells shitloads of product to white people who read newspapers. Check out their market share sometime when you get a chance.

Fuck Mike Wilbon, that water-carrier for #23 and general know-nothing asshelmet whose greatest legacy is that he isn't Stephen A. Smith.

LOL this is exactly like my moving violation indictment!

I agree about Cowherd. For the most part, I disagree with his politics or his desire to even inject politics into sport. BUT - I had to say that the grease fire comment made me laugh out loud for a few good minutes.

Reading that indictment this morning made me want to go and hug my dog. Jesus, that shit is disgusting to me.

I'm not white but I read newspapers, and I don't buy Nikes. What does that really say about me? I believe that means I'm acting white.

mike wilbon is one of the better shit shovelers in the business, regularly shows up kornheiser on PTI, and I'll not have you impugn his marginal reputation.

My point, don, is that people who are all "fuck michael vick" about this already don't buy nike shit for about 1000 other reasons.

Tho i should say that my own father, golfer/tiger woods fan/ex-golf-coach, would probably go after some of these dogfighting guys with his nike-brand clubs.

I don't think so. Tomboto said he wouldn't.

wow this has to be a record # of posts for a thread going from 0 to stupid.

ok ok I withdraw my hasty marketing generalizations based on a deep-seated dislike of country club members and my own anecdotal evidence of hardly seeing anybody of any race color or creed wearing nike sneakers anymore

Yeah - can we get back to "Fuck Michael Vick?" What a fucking monster.

Still a discouraging sign: the amount of ear-docking i saw at this local breeder show in Camas on saturday. A blue pit puppy with ear stitches is a horrible sight.

xp

not to say that country club members don't have their own problems. I'm kinda curious about what the sports coverage of this will be, in terms of focusing on the crime or how this fucks over the team. Hey PP, you're at a sports talk station, right? Have the callers been talking about this yet?

dogs are way better than people.

also: I saw a guy and his kid with a puppy that had its ears bandaged up from docking on Monday. I really wanted to yell at him but didn't due to presence of kid.

Only white people do that.

I'm kind of not as emotionally responsive as I thought I might be, which is probably from watching too many episodes of Animal Cops and becoming jaded, but I am with some other folks like Wilbon in just being shocked at how somebody in his position could be this stupid and dishonest about the entire thing from the word go. We sure pay some dumb mother fuckers a fuck ton of money in this country.

I hate docking so much. EARS ARE CUTE, PEOPLE.

However, yes, "total grease fire" should be liberated from its source, it's too hilarious an insult.

I'm pretty surprised he couldn't find something better than killing animals to spend his money on.

oh I could never watch Animal Cops, i'd just want them to taze everybody. Or freak out like Beavis: "give 'em the chair! YEAH! the chair! the chair!"

It would be bad enough for Vick and his sponsors if it was just the dog fighting - but the things described in the indictment are some Jeffrey-Dahmer-as-a-child serial killer shit. Once people see the details more - how do you outrun electrocuting and hanging animals?

Charges dropped isn't enough, you need to be completely and totally "I was in another country!!!" exonerated to rebuild your career after that.

There will be none of that. You think that if everything is proved there will be a lifetime ban from the NFL? That would make me laugh and laugh.

Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.

One time there was this horse on a farm that literally had a hole through its neck. Like, not an open wound. It had been an open wound at some point and then just healed around the wound so that the horse stopped being topologically equivalent to every other horse.

<i>There will be none of that. You think that if everything is proved there will be a lifetime ban from the NFL? That would make me laugh and laugh.</i>

Are you kidding? Do you follow sports?

this thread brought to you by Rupert Murdoch and the News at 10

You don't believe that if he gets 6 years for a felony conviction that they wouldn't ban him?

Wilbon's comments are interesting, if not somewhat shallow - probably written quickly with a deadline in mind. I am upset that I can't go home and watch PTI this afternoon.

His comments about this being a HUGE deal for the league is dead on. This guy was one creative head coach away from being a legend. Insanely fast, rocket of an arm, not totally incapable of running an offense. And he was playing in Atlanta, not a small, backwater of a town. He was on the cover of Madden NFL in 2004.

And, unlike a person with substance abuse or mental health issues, this guy has derailed a FABULOUSLY profitable business with WILLFUL behavior! That is cruelly harmful to animals that were raised with the express purpose of being harmed. And he has lost, regardless of the eventual outcome of the case, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Think about that - I got a ticket for running a red light, and it meant I couldn't get a new iPod for a few months. This guy allegedly ran a very sophisticated dog fighting enterprise, and he won't be able to buy that new island he'd been looking at. What a douche.

You know, what this makes me think of is that Big Boi from Outkast has a pit bull kennel, too. I hope to God Almighty that he isn't involved in this or another dog fighting scene. It will cause me to seriously hate him, as well.

And yes, despite his ability to DEMOLISH teams out of play action sets, I want no part of this lunatic. He is OFF the team.

suit, you made it sound like NOTHING would happen to Vick if convicted!

you are rather seriously overrating michael vick's quarterbacking ability.

Ally, that guy could SHRED teams with the right coach. You know it.

which coach are you talking about? christ?

sry humansuit I read your comment backwards. I agree I don't think he'll play again.

If Godell's (sp?) handing out half-season suspensions for suspected DUI, Vick's going to get a lifetime ban and lose a hand.

(xpost)

How many coaches until the "right" one is found, tho? Vick's gone through at least 2.

(xpost x2)

With raw talent like Vick's, you go through as many as you can afford.

Christ, Vince Lombardi, Patton. Whoever.

ditka??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpnl7_AK5FY

xpost lolololololol BLAM srsly you know i like you but sometimes i am like o_O when i read yr posts.

No I was unclear my bad.

Michael Vick can't be coached.

Also: Christ was a five-step-drop motherfucker; he would've ruined Vick.

Michael Vick should be coached via electric collar.

i would like michael vick to be coached by a pit bull. preferably in an adorable movie made by disney, where the pit bull talks, and wears a sporty cap. maybe also he smokes a cigar.

Only if Cuba Gooding, Jr. voices the pitbull.

Perhaps that's it then. Vick must lead his team to victory in each game otherwise an appendage is removed after each loss.

no no no clearly the voice of the pitbull is armand assante.

produced b Disney, directed by the guy who did Hostel

they should also use crazy forrest gump technology to put don knotts in the film, as the hapless assistant coach.

lol humansuit, i hope vick has a lot of extra limbs lookin at the falcons' record last year.

no no no clearly the voice of the pitbull is armand assante.

"Who got that motherfucking pick?"
"Ty Law, coach."
"LLLLLAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!"

don't make me break out tylaw&jakedelhommemilk.jpg again

i'm sorry i'm making this thread silly but i can't even begin to approach rationally discussing the actual case here other than to say that if it is true--and i don't think they'd have indicted him without pretty strong evidence linking him to this--i hope michael vick spends a long time in a jail cell.

No team will win a Super Bowl with Vick at QB. It doesn't matter who the coach is, who the running back is, who the wide receivers are, or if he quits dropping off semen samples under the alias Ron Mexico. He's not going to win a Super Bowl because his style of play will not exceed NFL defenses. He isn't a legend without the Ring. Not to mention he's been busy derailing his career for the past several seasons.

This is not a huge deal for the league, which has, can, and will continue to survive legal fiascos like this. If Wilbon is shocked--SHOCKED--that a powerful dude will take a bunch of responsibility and toss it out the window on impulse, then he's exactly as stupid as I think he is.

i was in a bar the other night and these two gay guys and this table of women WHO WERE SITTING CLEAR ACROSS THE ROOM FROM EACH OTHER were having a very loud discussion of the ron mexico scandal.

like, one of the dudes broke from watching MAN V WILD on the tv and walked over to the ladies' table and started introducing himself under a fake name to illustrate how the ron mexico thing happened.

don are you going to trade wilbon off in madden as soon as you get home

drunk ppl amirite

I don't have Madden, haven't played it in years. It's too addictive. But my kids want it pretty badly.

Fuck Wilbon. Although he's marginally more listenable than Kornheiser.

ok anything is more listenable than kornheiser though

lol humansuit, i hope vick has a lot of extra limbs lookin at the falcons' record last year.

There is always the genitalia.

a brave new direction for disney

Oh god if Joe Buck holds court on this Vick shit like he held court on the Moss "mooning" fiasco, I will kill Tony Kornheiser.

Tom, I can't, in good conscience, play as a Michael Vick-led version of the Ravens with my dog sitting next to me on the couch. Nope. Not gonna happen.

This guy should just go away.

you shouldn't, in good conscience, be playing that team whatsoever at all!!

Electrocution?! wtf

xpost otm

Christ, Vince Lombardi, Patton. Whoever.

Michael Vick is a coach- dog- Christ-killer.

https://community.hsus.org/campaign/US_2007_dogfighting_nfl2/

Humane Society started up a campaign

lol @ bobby petrino even more now. have fun coaching joey harrington!

lol, god

fuck due process too!

u mad

anyway yeah, the way this indictment came down so fast says a lot. i dont know a lot about this stuff but the possibility of RICO charges coming into play doesnt seem unlikely, not to mention the state charges that will probably be tacked on.

He's not going to win a Super Bowl because his style of play will not exceed NFL defenses.

that's not really the reason he won't succeed, he just has a shitty work ethic. that's the problem with dudes like vick, grossman, whoever, they just dont got the HUNGER 2 EXCEL. dudes who have to be pushed just to do the bare minimum to get by will get eaten alive, unless they are brett favre i guess, i don't know how that even worked out. (this is why jamarcus will be a bust btw)

and yeah obviously the league will survive this, but i think goodall's approach has already backfired PR-wise - making a big deal abt how tuff on trubblemakers ur gonna be, turning it into a storyline, i think it draws a lot more attn to the 'image problem' than it would have otherwise? like now there is a narrative about the NFL's image problem, where before these stories were reported like they happened in a vacuum.

i would like michael vick to be coached by a pit bull. preferably in an adorable movie made by disney, where the pit bull talks, and wears a sporty cap. maybe also he smokes a cigar.

bobby cox is not a football coach

Hey just NB, to people who are all "due process" about the endorsement issues, wouldn't this be the kind of crime where that'll get sorted out sooner rather than later? With something like a random murder you can claim total innocence to your grave, but given these charges I can't imagine how he'd possibly be able to make any sort of defense without making SOME kind of admission to being SOMEWHAT involved and/or interested in dogs tearing one another to shreds. No matter how much you try to push legal responsibility off onto someone else, "I have no idea what you're talking about" just isn't gonna fly as a defense.

What if the charges are completely false?

then he'll be exonerated.

But in terms of what Nabisco said.

so he loses some endorsements, big deal. he'd still be a multi-millionaire.

and he'll have a lot explainin' to do

What if the charges are completely false?

I don't normally agree with Dandy Don, but he's OTM up at the top of the thread -- the charges wouldn't have been brought if the gov't didn't have everythng it needed. The only thing that'll save Vick is some procedural fuckup.

I agree that it's 99% likely, however I still believe that due process must be followed first.

I don't believe the companies he has endorsement deals with owe him anything but money. If they want him gone, he's gone, fuck a due process. His employment contract with the NFL may be a different matter, but wasn't it either Tank or Pacman who was suspended just for arrests, not convictions?

Pacman and Tank we at least know for sure there were there at the time, whereas Vick we don't. I think that would be the reasoning, although it's not a large distinction.

What if the charges are completely false?

I don't normally agree with Dandy Don, but he's OTM up at the top of the thread -- the charges wouldn't have been brought if the gov't didn't have everythng it needed. The only thing that'll save Vick is some procedural fuckup.

-- Rock Hardy, Friday, July 20, 2007 1:08 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i dunno, it's not like scooter libby got found guilty of all counts.

black, white, puerto rican, mike vick is a rich scum bag, who as the thread title states, will get his uptight booty poked big time in the big house.

no he won't, he's got the herp.

so he loses some endorsements, big deal. he'd still be a multi-millionaire.

-- hstencil, Friday, July 20, 2007 1:02 AM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

RICO, dogg! they could hell of seize his assets if it goes down that road.

black, white, puerto rican

ppl who say this kind of thing are secret racialists~

It's very hard for charges like these to be "completely false," though! Not like I've read over the indictment, or anything, but this is a whole dogfighting RING involving large expenditures on Vick's part to set it up -- i.e., there's a paper trail, loads of people involved, etc. By the time an indictment's brought, it's EXTREMELY unlikely that you can plausibly deny every single bit of it, every phone bill, credit card charge, property deed, everyone involved testifying against you. You can claim you were ignorant of the full scale of it, that you were just blindly giving money to other people who were doing it without your knowledge, that you got used, that you maybe did one thing wrong but not everything charged, that someone else was the bigger fish -- but no way are you gonna make headway trying to claim the entire thing is 100% untrue! That's like getting charged with embezzlement and going "what are you talking about, I never even worked there."

RICO, dogg! they could hell of seize his assets if it goes down that road.

the hypothetical was whether he was exonerated, then what. fuk u if u can't read.

and i can't find that fuk u if u disagree gif, ade, so please re-post. surprised it hadn't been already.

nabisco is judge, jury AND SEXECUTIONER

http://www.tristatepunk.com/willdavidian/images/vickfinger.png

ppl who say this kind of thing are secret racialists~

-- cankles, Friday, July 20, 2007 2:03 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

cankles,

this no secret, suck my cock you internet slut.

if u are public racist then i have mad respect 4 u~

yes! thanks aidsy.

cankles,

you wanna hide behide calling people you don't know racist, or you wanna suck my cock?

pretty easy choice, if you knew how good the cock looks.

u mad, doggie! why u so shook, nicholas~

Damn the West coast crowd is really into dicks, law, and racism. Plz.

i'm on the east coast, and really only into two of those three.

I'm not saying he's necessarily guilty of everything charged -- just that his defense is 98% likely to be something more nuanced than "I have no idea what you're talking about."

(That 2% is left open for the claim that he has no idea what you're talking about, and it's all clearly a very complex frame-up.)

http://www.sorryboutthat.com/wiki/images/6/67/Selfclowningoven.jpg

Agreed, Nabisco. I believe it's a huge frame up too.

read the fucking indictment. I seriously doubt Ron Mexico is going to be able to ditch all the charges. For one, he bought the property and for another, he paid the bills on it. his hands are everywhere.

Where are his hands on you?

yeah, everyone besides the cock-suckers otm basically? endorsements are not like a right that one has, it doesn't matter if he is exonerated, his image has been tarnished over and over and over again and this is basically a final straw for a lot of these companies i think? also the fact that y y y it is kind of impossible for him to not be implicated in this considering it's his shit and he paid the bills--theoretically, someone else could've been the ringleader but there's no way that he's going to ever be considered stain-free by the general public.

so, dropped endorsement deals. who gives a shit, i never understood why such a boring, erratic, meh dude got any of those deals to begin with.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118489415133372502.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Nike Delays Vick's Shoe
After NFL Star Is Indicted

Nike Inc. suspended the release of a shoe endorsed by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, the second time in about a year that the athletic-footwear giant has taken the unusual step of cracking down on one of its star endorsers after alleged misbehavior.

Think outside the box, Nike -- now is the perfect time to come out with the Signature Michael Vick "DogStomper" spiked cleat!

Red-on-white blood-splatter art painstakingly hand-painted by genuine Thai children.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Reservoir-Dogs-Poster-C10027430.jpeg

the pix and vid they showed on the news hour last night were fucking heartbreaking.

http://fanaticking.com/photos/Michael_Vick_Dog.jpg

yeah, everyone besides the cock-suckers otm basically?

hey now that's uncalled for ally :'(

i wish we could change our login names cuz i would so be "Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home." right now

That Ladainian Tomlinson/Michael Vick trade just gets better and better every year. :D

Fuck You, Emmitt Smith

Fuck BBCode too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2944662

dude plead not guilty today, right?

anyway, Deion Sanders wrote this bit in support. Great.

Is it too late for him to be a backup behind Harrington in Madden? Good riddance to the man whose athletic ability was reflected in video games in such a way to make Tecmo Bowl feel like Super Simulated Football Game 2050.

deion sanders is a confounding, confounding man. the worst thing on the nfl network is their multiple-times-per-week update from deion's fucking barber shop. because, clearly, people most qualified to analyze intricate rule working and trades and legal dramas of various players are a bona fide batshit nuts dude and his posse of random old dudes who just wanted to get a goddamned haircut.

by worst i mean "best thing except the execution is so awful due to fact that deion really is kind of intolerable though not quite michael irvin yet"

i DO enjoy the fact that his "i support michael vick" editorial contains like a pretty lengthy middle section talking about how awesome deion's german shepherds are and how they will rip your testicles off if you fuck with deion, though.

The logic of Deion Sanders is pretty hilarious.

it is BASICALLY the best editorial i have ever read

We're attacking this dogfighting ring the same way a teenager attacks his MySpace page after school (by the way parents, make sure you monitor your kids).

Okay I fully agree with Ally.

It had been an open wound at some point and then just healed around the wound so that the horse stopped being topologically equivalent to every other horse

^^^ this

kudos

Wow @ Deion. Yeah, I'm sure he loved those dogs. Not in the mouth-kissing way, more in the leave-the-carcass-to-rot way.

Today, I learned that Michael Vick wanting to watch dogs tear each other apart is kinda like Deion wanting to wear lots of jewelry. It's about status, understand?

Dude, you don't understand. IT'S JUST LIKE ULTIMATE FIGHTING.

Maybe he identified with those big, strong, bad-ass dogs so much that he HAD to watch them tear each other's throats out?

Maybe he needs rehab. He needs our sympathy, not our condemnation!

well, this thread just reminds me of that one scene in new jack city

chris rock and the crack pipe?

yes

Now, granted he might have been to a dogfight a time or two, maybe five times, maybe 20 times, may have bet some money, but he's not the one you're after.

http://www.filmwise.com/contests/contest_07/image_14a.jpg

Deion Sanders lives around the corner from a police station is all I could understand from the editorial.

it's like that scene in New Jack City where the guy lives around the corner from a police station

Deion probably rambled that as a voicemail to his hapless assistant on his way to dinner or something and told her to transcribe it. I refuse to believe he has the concentration or attention span to actually type, let alone use a pen.

Sanders's full-on bullshit is somehow less annoying to me than Smith's characterizing dogfighting as some kind of youthful enthusiasm that you have to grow up and be professional and leave behind -- apparently it's not reprehensible and awful, it's just more like partying too late or wearing shorts all the time. I mean, Sanders's "taking you inside the brain" is at least useful and accidentally honest, in that he winds up more or less admitting that he is an idiot and thinks dogfighting is cool.

Smith offering exactly the defense I predicted: "Now, granted he might have been to a dogfight a time or two, maybe five times, maybe 20 times, may have bet some money, but he's not the one you're after." This scans like total "I haven't read the indictment" bullshit, though -- it's not a bet, there's a money trail! Dude OWNED the stuff. (Allegedly.) And if he really WERE some kind of casual low-level participant, he's an idiot for not having cooperated with the investigation a long, long time ago. (Though I suspect that column upthread where someone references "cultural issues" is talking about snitching as much as just thinking dogfights are okay.) Anyway: money trail. You can't skeeze your way out from under a money trail.

"passion for dogfighting"

I really can't get past the part of Deion's bullshit that basically asserts that Vick, as a pro athlete, should be given the benefit of the doubt because other pro athletes have been victims of violent crime. Really? What?

http://www.davesez.com/images/Vick.JPG

favorite parts: "It's like ultimate fighting, but the dog doesn't tap out when he knows he can't win." What else don't dogs do, Deion? Brush their teeth?

"Can I pause for a moment to ask you a question?" haha

Has Michael Irvin weighed in on this yet? I can barely wait!

"It's like ultimate fighting, but with more grievous injury and unnecessary death. So ... you know, it's got that going for it."

I really think that the way you feel and/or act on this matter, unless you are an attorney for either side, is dependant upon one thing:

Do you have a problem with dogfighting?

If yes, you shouldn't support Michael Vick w/r/t this case.

If no, you could support Michael Vick w/r/t this case.

God help Deion, Vick's attorney or anyone else who openly supports Vick when they have to explain to their kids why Vick isn't a bad guy b/c he raised dogs to die in violent conflict with each other, and you still have to walk the dog three times a day b/c its mean otherwise.

Warrick Dunn made a statement which I regard as relatively classy, and all the more absolutely classy when compared to Deion's:
"This football team is a family, and one of our brothers is going through a situation," Dunn said. "When you have a family member who's going through something, you have to support that family member and be there for them while at the same time knowing that we have other guys on this team that we have to support and also push to be better on the football field. We're still going to support Mike, but right now we have to get ready for the football season."

But, at the end of the day, fuck Michael Vick. I've got a dog, and you don't fuck with dogs. Dogs fucking rule.

Dan Wetzel on the courthouse shenanigans, re: protestors v. supporters and the racial breakdown

^^^ I have a low-expectations bigotry about sports writing, which means half the time I read any I'm all like "wow, that was very nicely turned out." As a side-note, though:

1. Given the whole history of the U.S., people aren't really surprised that when successful black people are accused of crimes, other black people stay a little skeptical and want to hear out the details at trial, are they?

2. Given a whole bunch of other dynamics, people aren't really surprised that Americans have a weirdo love/resentment/scorn issue going on with black professional athletes, one that manifests itself in feeling especially entitled to let out the abuse on them for fuck-ups both real and imagined?

1. Definitely not. But also: OJ, and the possibility that there's a parallel element of really really hoping he's got nothing to do with it that's racialized for supporters in a way that it wouldn't be if we were talking about say, Bill Romanowski.

2. Sadly, no. Though possibly complicated in a way that has as much to do with the privilege accorded athletes as it does with race. See Lacrosse, Duke. This might be simpler if "being a asshole" were a punishable offense.

deion sanders is a confounding, confounding man. the worst thing on the nfl network is their multiple-times-per-week update from deion's fucking barber shop. because, clearly, people most qualified to analyze intricate rule working and trades and legal dramas of various players are a bona fide batshit nuts dude and his posse of random old dudes who just wanted to get a goddamned haircut.

-- the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Friday, July 27, 2007 2:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

omg ally did you see when deion was on and he had this crazy al gore beard (grey too!) and jamie asked why redd foxx was on the set, it was amaze~

i think deion and irvin are the most entertaining dudes in the world so mb i am not best person to weigh in on this. deion is smarter though, he's a really good analyst when he doesnt mind breaking character or whatever~

big article in the paper recently about Deion taking in a dozen kids w/o fathers for the summer, giving them chores/tutors/Bible study/etc.. Which seems great, but then again he's an enormous douche and always has been (moreso since the born-again phase, I think - flashy cokeheads I'm ok with, self-righteous flashy evangelicals not so much) and I really don't want him around children at all.

it's so awesome being a Cowboys fan. Cankles 80386.

Perhaps Deion should take in some foster dogs. LIke ex-fighting dogs who can't be pets, because their former owners made them deranged.

xpost

it's so awesome being a Cowboys fan. Cankles 80386.

-- wanko ergo sum, Saturday, July 28, 2007 1:40 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ja rite

The allure is the intensity and the challenge of a dog fighting to the death. It's like ultimate fighting, but the dog doesn't tap out when he knows he can't win.

"The allure is the passion and the challenge of getting something you couldn't have otherwise. Rape is just like sex, the only different is it's usually harder for the woman to have a good time when she's fighting the moment, know what I mean?"

I had to go back and read that editorial a second time. That may be the stupidest, nastiest thing I've ever read. I'm certain Vick loved his dogs to pieces. I hate--truly hate--this man, his mindset, and his fucked up deeds.

i wish blount was here 2 weigh in on dis~

it's so awesome being a Cowboys fan. Cankles 80386.

idk what this even means :((((

It means you need an upgrade.

ron mexico alias generator

I have a low-expectations bigotry about sports writing,

i find it amazing that someone who purports to be interested in writing would say something like this.

also yes i think i did see that beardy episode??? i really wish that the nfl network would basically shut down during the off-season, or only show the "brett favre: he did a lot of drugs lol" episode of america's game over and over again, because the shit they come up with to pass the time during the summer is like woah.

like you're not GLUED to training camp coverage, ally.

i don't even HAVE the nfl network at my new apt!! otherwise...i would be.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=100887

rofflez.

The rally was organized by New Order -- a human rights group based in Marietta.

Were I to organize a human rights group, this would not be the name I'd choose for about three, maybe eight reasons.

i find it amazing that someone who purports to be interested in writing would say something like this.

otm, sports writing is consistently some of the best feature writing out there.

I don't know why it'd be so amazing -- I'm admitting that it's total blind-spot bigotry on my part! There is some truly terrible sports column writing in the world, and I wind up assuming it's all like that, and so I'm stupidly surprised to come across the good stuff. I'm sure if I read more about sports, my brain would readjust and realize that lots of it is good, but for the time being it's just kind of stuck. It helps that I'm pretty conscious of that.

LOL "purports"

Read SI sometime. Or even ESPN.com.

"i find it amazing that someone who purports to be interested in writing would say something like this."

oh c'mon dude who are all these great sports writers yall are reading? i want in on that shit, cuz i dont see them anywhere :[

ally they post the CHOICEST HIGHLIGHTS each week at nfl.com/video! i dont know if the beard thing is up but i should find it, take a screenshot and print it onto a t-shirt~

dont listen to them dogg SI is trash except for zimmerman

I think Marshawn Lynch impressed me off the field the other day, after showing terrific moves on the field. Lynch was telling me how much he loves to watch Michael Vick play, and how last year at Cal he never watched much football, but every time Vick was on, it was appointment TV. And I asked him if he thought Vick was getting a fair shake and if he thought the charges against him were fair. (Which, of course, Lynch can't know. But I was trolling for his opinion in case he had a strong one.)

"I don't feel I'm in a place to have an opinion on that,'' he said. "I don't know anything about the case. So I really shouldn't say anything.''

Maybe Deion Sanders should go to the Marshawn Lynch School of Intelligence.

ooh burrrrn

the thought of kenan reading skip bayless = mind blown

What cankles said - outside of some Baseball Prospectus alumni & associates, Dan Pasquarelli, and Henry Abbott (RIP David Aldridge), ESPN.com is shit on a Ritz with a whole tube of Cheez Whiz riding shotgun - their big guns are either well past their sell-by date (Peter Gammons ;_;) or monosyllabic assclowns angling to guest host Mike & Mike. & the site still kicks the shit out of the flap-slapping jackanapes @ Sports Illustrated (Dr Z. notwithstanding).

NB: I might be full of shit.

no, you're pretty much spot on.

ESPN.com and ESPN Radio - particularly without my Dan & Keith Hour ;_; - makes me almost as violent as Day by Day.

I'm a peace-loving dude, but given half a chance I'd turn Skip Bayless into the girl in the hole from Silence of the Lambs.

congrats, you're the new shakey.

For Skip, I'm okay with that.

fair enough. as long as you can spend thousands so you don't have to wear glasses.

Thank god for Ebay, eh?

dick cheney says it's turning us all into entrepreneurs.

but are you paying taxes on it?

Not if I can help it.

kudos, you make shakey look good now.

Such is life.

just don't fight any dogs, bro.

I'd lose anyway.

haha i actually don't mind bayless anymore, not after realizing that it's all a put-on. he is so ridiculous and ott that he sort of makes being a blowhard into something transcendent. also he wears great suits.

footballoutsiders.com has one good writer too but otherwise they are pretty crappy

damn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vLGVvD7A0Y

UK fan, natch.

he accepted the plea.

I wonder if he will enjoy prison bitchdom.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/20/vick/index.html

Innocent until proven guilty, ect.

Talk about pissing a nice career away.

I wonder if he will enjoy prison bitchdom.

somebody wake me up when we outgrow this kind of garbage

ya i was gonna say somethin abt that, but i guess it's just don... bein don.

a dandy wonders

What kinda garbage, John? Being gleeful at the thought of a sadist millionaire getting it up the bum by some frothing-at-the-mouth skinhead maniac? If that's 'garbage,' pleased to meet ya, my name is Oscar The Grouch.

Not to state the obvious, but in a Tales From The Crypt 'punishment befitting the crime' kinda way, I say they oughta throw Vick to the fucking wolves.

he's talkin bout makin rape jokes when it concerns male rape, esp prison rape~

i cant really tut-tut anyone for doing it cuz rape jokes are my bread and butter but it is an uncool thing 2 do unless u are pro-rape in general imo

i would say "$10 sez vick doesn't get so much as lightly slapped by another prisoner while in the can" but that probably puts me on his level.

What's this world coming to??

Doesn't anyone watch Oz??????

(PS unfortunately I think you're probably right hstencil)

Oh I don't know. Rick Fox didn't look like he had a very good time in OZ.

HAHA xpost.

somebody wake me up when we outgrow this kind of garbage

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

edgy

idk john he raises some salient points

it'd be nice if J0hn would raise a salient point instead of pretending to be the garbage patrol for prison rape victims.

yeah everybody knows those prison rape victims have such strong advocates in the media and in politics.

Wasn't Modest Mickey lambasting us for ignoring this very same issue back before he got banned?

well he had what you could call a vested interest.

The prison rape jokes always get the biggest laughs in The Laramie Project.

I'd say there's a big difference between making fun of rape and wondering aloud if Vick is going to get victimized in prison.

Not to mention the fact that there seems to be a sliding set of morals when it comes to vengeance on ILX.

was it ever determined what in fact he got caught with? illegal music seemed so flimsy

xp

he got caught with a bellybutton ring.

IT NEVER GETS OLD

when it does you can buy a new one

i leave the esoteric piercings to alternative musicians, john.

not sure what you'd be mad at me for since i agree with you about don's dumb comments anyway.

apparently you revealed your true colors to J0hn when you said what you said you thought about saying.

in english please don?

I'm only speculating, but I guess maybe this is what got J0hn mad at you

i would say "$10 sez vick doesn't get so much as lightly slapped by another prisoner while in the can" but that probably puts me on his level.

the sanctimony of calling out garbage in a thread titled as such is just a little more than I can take with a straight face.

don, i didn't wish a light slap on him, much less anal rape. i would think john could tell the difference but i don't wanna speak for him.

plus, there's that whole irony thing with the gambling aspect. understandably it might take you a minute or three to get that.

I didn't wish anything on him either; I got the gambling thing right off the bad dude. I may be a retard but I'm not that stupid. But if you even allude to prison rape here, it's garbage. Never mind the endless stream of vicious garbage depicted and directed towards celebrities, politicians, and other ILXors on a daily basis.

er, "bat" not bad

i leave the esoteric piercings to alternative musicians, john.

not sure what you'd be mad at me for since i agree with you about don's dumb comments anyway.

stence I was just riffing w/you, not sniping! I save my sniping for lame har har prison rape amirite stuff

the rather poor joke was: bellybutton ring => "it never gets old" => pretend "it" refers to bellybutton ring => "if it gets old you can buy a new one"

ok dudes, I apologize for my crass comment which, at the time, I didn't think was so out of line. There's nothing funny about rape. You're right J0hn, we need less garbage around here.

http://www.tigergeneral.com/images/photos/tiger_hug.jpg

don, dont buckle under the pressure! u do u, dogg. u do u.

HAHAHGLhglkhasdglksnbisco

cankles I'm a big believer in taking people at their word, I'm not here to go "Don you said something kinda bogus so fuck you 4ever"

that would have been my younger self tho admittedly

"fuk u 4ever" is pretty much my philosophy abt everything, btw fuk all of u for making this thread about some pussbaby bullsquid >:[

cankles i thot your philosophy was summed up by that vick jpg, "fuk u if u disagree"

they should replace "e pluribus unum" with that amirite

in vick we trus

I dunno, it's not like I have a lot of pride to lose around here anyway. I've apologized before and I'm sure I'll do it again.

(Actually, I started wondering what I would think if one of my kids posted something like that...the moral math gets a lot clearer when you think that way.)

The whole case has now been justified because it has elicited the greatest political comment of our young century. Money line:

Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane. But if Vick could have figured out a way to pit two unborn babies against each other in a fight to the death, maybe we'd outlaw killing children as quickly as we rushed to enhance penalties for crimes involving our pets.

dude why are you even reading that

J0hn how is this note the money line!

"If Terry Schiavo was a dolphin or a dog (or a wale)she would still be alive today"

I was just about to post that quote!

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY DOLPHINS AND DOGS AND WHALES ARE IN PERSISTIVE VEGETATIVE STATES??!?! AND THOSE DAMN LIBERALS WANT TO USE OUR FUCKING TAX DOLLARS TO KEEP THE DAMN THINGS ALIVE! IT'S A TRAVESTY!

mookie it was linked from another blog I read and the lulz were contagious!

Alex that one line admittedly is some money, but the real cash money is two unborn babies fighting each other in a pit, I mean who would not pay top dollar to see that

sonogram_slapfight.jpg

I'm pretty ok with in utero dogfighting too, actually

Lester Munson's summary/analysis at ESPN is really good.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=2983319

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7144402?MSNHPHCP>1=10347

Embattled Atlanta Falcon Michael Vick has a friend — and fellow doggie disrespecter — in Stephon Marbury.

"I think we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals," the Knick point guard told Capital News 9, an Albany TV station. "You know, from what I understand, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors.

"I think it's tough that we build up Michael Vick and then we break him down."

so well anyway, does anyone else think it's really fucked up that they're apparently just going to euthanize the nearly 60 dogs seized from vick? WAY TO SAVE DOGS FROM THE BAD PPL, VIRGINIA.

I thought it was generally believed that dogs trained to be aggressive/fight couldn't be re-trained?

RIP

that isn't true at all, there are quite a few facilities that have been successful in retraining dogs. also some of the dogs are young and might not have been fought yet.

it just seems really fucked up to go ahead and kill all the dogs anyway.

those dogs were already dead

anyhow, PETA disagrees with you

If you want to try to rehab one of 'em, be my guest. You might wake up one day with your guts strewn all over, though. They'll be put to sleep in a more painless manner than Bad Newz Kennels did it.

yeah, you know, i'm not really sure why i brought up the point on a msg board that has that repulsive-until-recently pit bull thread, actually.

They probably have shelter overcrowding issues, and I dunno if "RESCUED FROM DEATH AT THE HANDS OF MICHAEL VICK" will attract a lot of potential owners. Pits have a hard time being re-homed even if they weren't fighting.

People for the Euthanization of Tons of Animals

hi they were seized by a very very rich man who is being penalized by the law for his actions, seems like it'd be real easy to get a big fine out of the dude as well to pay for the dogs to be housed in one of countless pit rescue shelters for the rest of their lives and, like, i don't know, make some kind of statement about the dogs instead of just killing them.

I dunno if "RESCUED FROM DEATH AT THE HANDS OF MICHAEL VICK" will attract a lot of potential owners.

That's probably the ONLY thing that would save any of 'em. "This dog is SO tough..."

but the thing is that no one actually does care about the dogs because 98% of america secretly thinks that pits are gross and vicious anyway lol.

Ally, I totally get your point...but isn't it understandable that some folks might have a slight problem with having a formerly fighting trained pit-bull around the house? Regardless of the quality/success of re-training?

I own a dog, I hate seeing animals unnecessarily euthanized, but some of these dogs might be beyond help, right? Would you want your kids playing with them?

eBay Back to list of items Listed in category: Dogs > Rescued > Celebrity > Pitbulls
AUTHENTIC MICHAEL VICK PITBULL w/ COURT CERTIFICATION
Pre-owned MICHAEL VICK pitbull, NO RES Item number: 12015273465
Bidder or seller of this item? Sign in for your status
Watch this item in My eBay

http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/billboardNYC.jpg

And I spent a lovely afternoon on Saturday with a really nice female pit bull, so I am not one of the "Ew, pit bull. Gross!" folks.

Ally I'm not sure I get where the high-horsiness comes in about pitbulls: what exactly is wrong with some people deciding they're a bit high-risk and deciding to get a collie instead? What business is it of ours if some people find them "gross" or unappealing?

I mean, I can understand getting annoyed in those areas where people try to ban them or put extraordinary restrictions on them, but if people happen to just not be fond of the breed, I'm not sure why we're gonna pretend that's some failing on their part. I'm not fond of pugs, myself.

nabisco, it's because they have an unfair bad rep, perpetuated by terrible people like michael vick

also i think the thrust of the point is that killing all the animals should not be the go-to option

BUT the fact of the matter here is that none of us know these dogs personally. They could be sweet, they could be re-trainable, but it's just as likely that they're badly abused, very badly socialized animals that will never know how to do anything but attack. You can't have those around. It's sad and it's not the dog's fault, but still.

yeah tbh i don't really care what happens to the dogs lol. the necessity of killin hell of animals that aren't wanted used to really make me mad/sad but i guess i am just really used to it now. also, living in a kennel all your fuckin life SUCKS. it's shitty for a dog to live like that so they are prob better off dead~

Kenan, way otm, especially on the go-to option stmt.

kenan gets to be OTM for helping Nabisco to understand somebody else's point?

Some people have all the luck.

KENAN OTM

At least in LA, the latest is typically the greatest, Tom.

Kenan didn't help me to understand anyone's point: I wasn't talking about euthanasia, I was asking exactly how dismissive we want to be of people for being wary of a dog that's powerful and requires good training and ownership. The bad rep can be somewhat useful if it winnows down the ranks of pitbull owners to people who are confident that they know what they're doing with them. (This isn't because pitbulls are inherently always vicious -- it's because being the shitty owner/trainer of a puggle will mostly lead to pee-stained carpets and torn-up shoes, whereas being the shitty owner/trainer of a pitbull or a Rottweiler or whatever can create much more serious problems.)

I mean, acknowledging that pitbulls have been bred to be serious, powerful dogs doesn't have to mean blaming them or acting like they're wild beasts -- it can mean respecting that they're serious, powerful dogs, and you shouldn't be messing with them unless you know what you're doing.

I wasn't talking about euthanasia

i think everyone else was

I'd like to think it was fairly clear what I was responding to.

I wonder if there are ever people who go to dog pounds offering to eat the euthanized dogs. Could you feed dogmeat to the hungry or do you have to incinerate them?

Because I seriously would rather eat dogmeat than, say, possum or squirrel.

Hell no. I say this from my year as a teenage hunter, squirrel stew is great.

Altho, much like with rabbit, you have to watch out for buckshot and hair getting into the final meal.

Yeah, skwirl is okay, I'd eat that before dog.

I've eaten squirrel stew. I guess it's basically a rat anyway.

It's just kind of illlogical that people are starving when we could be feeding them dog. I've eaten pigeon (horrible!) so I guess we could start there.

Holy shit, I just realized that we should start with Canadian Geese.

Cats I would not eat.

Geese I would. Mmm-mmmmm.

Would you eat horse?

I would eat horse. I ate glue once as a kid so that probably counts.

Plus, who knows what's actually in some of the sausage and hot dog (heh) products I've ingested in my life.

And yeah, I've actually been to a sausage factory. On a field trip, no less.

i will eat anything that does not eat meat. That excludes cats and dogs.

horses are fine to eat, it's only because we used to use them as tranpo that we have a cultural bias against eating them

xpost a sausage factory besides ilx you mean, don...

I don't know why i know this, but horses were the main pack animal for the German Army during WWII. THey'd have them pull the artillery & supply wagons(remember the scene from Band of Brothers). During Stalingrad and late in the war, rations ran so low that most(all?) of the horses were killed & eaten by starving troops.

I would eat horse, but not dog.

Horse, rabbit, squirrel, possum - gamey and greasy. Yuck.

fried rabbit is good.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9667/sweetrevengeaa3.jpg

too bad that's not a pit

this one's for cankles

http://www.tristatepunk.com/willdavidian/images/vickfinger.png

Monday may still have some surprises.

No honest person plays with the Falcons on Madden online. It's a fact. Playing some clowns this week and getting burned by cheap Vick plays makes me miss him even less. Don't even get me started on his defeat of the Packers in 2004.

I could care less what he did to dogs, as long as he's gone from computer games forever.

The source said Vick maintains he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight.

He will admit he was present when dogs were killed, but that he did not personally kill any of the dogs.

Let the career rehab begin!

Jamie Foxx, professional retard:

“It’s a cultural thing, I think. Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star. I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don’t get time. I think in this situation,he really didn’t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.”

groan

Fuck You, Jamie Foxx

Gah, that's depressing.

A guy called into a local show yesterday and told this story: he was pretty familiar with dog fighting, knew a bit about the scene and disapproved, and was exposed to dogfight videos at parties and such. He claimed that his husky was stolen from him, and he suspected right away where he'd been taken--to train up pits. He couldn't find the dog, but was pretty sure that he later saw his dog torn to shreds in a doggie snuff film.

The context of the call was that he wanted to explain some of the other aspects of dogfighting, and he said it was just a part of a bigger street culture that involved a lot of other criminal activity. He was not emotionally critical of the scene, and he didn't go after Vick at all, he seemed pretty low key on the whole thing. It was more like he was just sad about his dog.

I couldn't figure out if his seemingly dispassionate response made him more or less credible.

makes him eligible for mental treatment

Either that, or he's told this story SO many times in the past month that he's determined that people will pay a lot more attention to what he's saying if he adopts an informed, but dispassionate, approach to talking about it. There have been a lot of polemics on either side here.

Or maybe he thinks about it as some animals are bred to die in for fights and that's okay, but pets are different cos they're bred to be our friends. That's their reason for existing right? Just like some animals are bred to die in slaughterhouses and people are generally cool with that too.

They should stick Jamie Foxx's Oscar up his ass. What a total prick.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, last I checked. And if he didn't know it was illegal, why was he doing this shit in a secluded house with blacked out windows?

The worst thing to me is Foxx trying to sneak in some race-based bullshit, like the Man is just fucking with black culture or something.

"Black people kill dogs. It's just what we do."

I got drunk with Foxx and his pussy posse about five years ago. He was (is?) in love with himself and basically, a prick.

I know, right? Its like they say they get fucked b/c they can't do anything but keep it real, and then they say that we just don't understand keepin' it real! Its like they're an entirely different culture or something!

The previous message brought to you by the idiot Pasadena bitch housewife in training who was loudly drunk, within earshot of me, at a bar last night.

I was confused for a second

Oh yeah, its like THAT in the San Gabriel Valley, holmes.

I honestly don't think that this is a race thing in any way, other than the guy in question happens to be black and it took place in Atlanta.

*Leans against the bar, looks around to see if anyone is charging towards him for a fight*

Suspended indefinitely

RICHMOND, Va. - The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.

Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings...

I love how this slides further & further down. "Okay, okay, so i knew the entire thing was going on and approved of it, paid for the shit and even might have killed a few dogs myself, but i never gambled! Take THAT, william bennett!"

"Lest anyone think I was doing this simply for profit," said Vick, "I want to be absolutely clear: it wasn't about the money. I really believe in electrocuting animals, you know? This was a labor of love, and it's reprehensible that anyone would claim otherwise."

Oh man, i'm really going to be pissed if this takes on more of the race-baiting/street-culture defense.

"These little scamps here are my friends," he added. "And when they come to me saying 'Please please please can we keep dogs and train them to be vicious and make them fight each other and gamble on it and then kill them if they're not good at it' ... I mean, look in their eyes. You'd have to have a heart of stone to say no to these little guys."

i posted that FUIUD pic first, kingfish!!! fuk u!

i thought it was a little crazy when pps got on portis' ass for saying what he did a while back, cuz it was true: football players are mostly a bunch of country motherfuckers, and dogfighting is some country ass shit (i know that's really unfair to the great majority of rural pps who have nothing to do w/it but otoh who cares)

don't yell at me, yell at hstencil.

dogfighting is some country ass shit

fuck yeah. I went to the local "west coast bully breeders show" last month just to see what was up, and it was way out in scary-ass Camas.

oh dang sorry lol, wtf was i thinkin~

did any of u guys see the thing on REAL SPORTS (the bryant gumble show on hbo) abt dogfightin? it looks like some pretty uncool stuff!!!!

i posted that FUIUD pic first, kingfish!!! fuk u!

this one's for cankles

learn to read you country ass motherfucker

req beastiality slashfic re michael vick plz email me directly

esp more violent stuff.

The worst thing to me is Foxx trying to sneak in some race-based bullshit, like the Man is just fucking with black culture or something.]

It's a shame this didn't come out earlier or DMX could claim the controversy behind dogfighting videos was an attempt by the white man to get his videos taken off tv.

Oh man, i'm really going to be pissed if this takes on more of the race-baiting/street-culture defense.

If you belonged to a race that used to be terrorized by dogs (pre-Civil Rights era no less) you might do what Michael Vick did too!*

*Seriously, what's up with stereotypes re: black Americans and dogs? I've met countless blacks who've had aversions to them (they are overrepresented amongst other people who have that problem, in my experience) and I know there's a stereotype that goes along with it.

Fuck you again, DMX...

CAVE CREEK, Ariz. -- Sheriff's deputies acting on a tip of animal cruelty raided the Phoenix-area home of rapper-turned-actor DMX and carried out 12 pit bulls in need of immediate medical care, investigators said.
They said they also found several dogs buried in the back yard of the Cave Creek property.

The Maricopa County sheriff's deputies said a tip came in more than a week ago about dogs being kept in inhumane conditions, said Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Detectives went to the home and then called one of the rapper's lawyers, Arapio said. Investigators told him that the conditions for the dogs needed to be improved or deputies would obtain a search warrant, Arpaio said.

Authorities armed with a warrant returned to the home Friday and discovered a dozen dogs that were not being watered or fed. Arapio said.

A source told CBS 5 News that someone had recently been hired to take care of DMX's dogs while he is in New York. Neighbors said they haven't seen DMX for several months.

Investigators also found drug paraphernalia and a cache of weapons inside the home, according Arpaio.
Arpaio said it does not appear dogfighting was involved, just abuse of dogs.
Earl Simmons, 36, also known as DMX, was not at home when the raid occurred, according to deupties.

The animals were taken to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office M.A.S.H. unit. The facility at the jail is no-kill animal shelter created to house and care for animals that have been abused or neglected by their caretakers and rescued by the Animal Cruelty Investigative Unit.

DMX has a history of law-enforcement run-ins. In 1999, during a "Hard Knock Life" tour stop in Denver, he was arrested and later cleared in the stabbing and shooting of his mother. In 2002, he pleaded guilty to animal cruelty for neglecting 13 pit bulls in his possession.

You kind of have to hand it to the prosecutors in this case. They were up against what I'm sure were some very high-paid lawyers and they wrapped everything up very quickly without a trial and with what seem like pretty stiff sentences. The federal court in Richmond is known for its speediness (and also, should be said, for being very conservative).

To the surprise of no one, Vick claims to have found Jesus now...

I take full responsibility for my actions," Vick said. "Not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I've done.

"Through this situation I've found Jesus," he added. He vowed to redeem himself, saying, "I have to."

If you ever can't find Jesus, look in the courthouse, pre-sentencing. He hangs out there a lot.

Which isn't to suggest that Vick is just saying that, or anything. I mean, I know when I was 9 years old, I tended to believe in Jesus way more when I was in trouble.

Micro-props to Vick. He has thousands of miles to go but he took a step in the right direction. Sure it was all coached and practiced, but it seems to be one of the first times he's chosen to take good advice.

I'll meet y'all back here in a year or so to see if he keeps it up.

A little late, but:

Cunga, will you shut the fuck up?

beat me to it

i was surprised when i saw a clip of him, he sounded genuinely contrite in a way i didn't expect. his normal post-game press conferences always sound canned as hell so i figured this would be even worse. he's got a long way to go, but that was some pretty real sounding shit imo~~

(am i deluded?)

Possibly deluded. Today just felt a lot to me like "I'm sorry I got caught. Kids, don't get caught."

freemichaelvick.com doesn't look like it was updated today, but about as crazy as other sites i've seen

http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com/

http://www.jimmyshowbiz.com/vickschewtoy2.jpg

The Official Vick's Dog Chew Toy

Is it different you ask? You bet it is! Vick's Dog Chew Toy is made of state of the art "dog" material. The Vick's Toy Doll is so strong and flexible, it will challenge every breed. Especially The Pit Bull.

Unlike other toys, our manufacturer is so sure of its durability they guarantee it against the most playful dog destruction. It Bends. It Bounces. It Flies. It Floats. And best of all, it lasts through the whole season and more!

Get Your Official Vick's Dog Chew Toy today!

xpost

It sounded real enough to possibly shave some time off of his sentence. But he'll make believers out of all of us how he lives his "new life".

As a teacher who works with many young people who aim for the thuglife, I don't think that any of my students would have seen any nudge-nudge-wink-wink in his speech.

What about Raymond Pettibon? Never really saw any reaction to this when it ran:

http://www.believermag.com/issues/200412/?read=interview_pettibon

Pettibon being a cock is far less shocking than Michael Vick being one, really.

i don't know about that. both of 'em being dicks isn't really shocking at all.

Okay, I just watched his statement again on ESPN and I retract my last post. There seemed to be some real introspection and humility there. I'm still suspicious of him playing the jesus card, but there was an instant there when he said "I'm going to have a lot of downtime in the next year or so" when it looked like he suddenly realized the truth of what he was saying. Don't know how much slack it'll get him from Hudson, but it was a good public apology.

Dude had dogs fight and kill each other for his amusement. Fuck him.

They just had a report about this on Irish radio. The correspondent, who lives in the U.S., reminded people at the end of the piece that this story has stirred up particular controversy in the U.S. because people really love their pets. They have health insurance for them and pet psychiatrists and everything! This was a source of much hilarity to the presenters. Fucking dicks.

My friends have had to take their pug to the emergency pet hospital. Pug insurance is a useful thing. Fuck these people.

I thought his press conference/statement was utter unbelievable horseshit. Once again, he avoids personal responsibility by blaming immaturity (much like he blamed his cousin initially). Fuck him

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070827

Our very own version:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6969651.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/01/vick.dogs/index.html

two bits:

1. Dogs will be sent to families or doggy sanctuary. One dog is too far gone and will be put to sleep.

2. Dude tested positive for marijuana in the midst of all this

Second Draft (2.5mb pdf)

Atlanta Magazine revises its four year old gushing profile of Vick in light of the current situation.

Five Falcons fined for wearing Vick tributes

That's whay I laugh when the Falcons lose (and I've been laughing plenty this season)

oh the comments section:

evodz wrote:
Bunch of Keyboard Cowboys (KC's) who don't have the guts to speak their racist views in the face of "any" minority. The same type to throw stones and hide their hands. Heck, these KC's are bigots unto their own. Pettiful souls.

BearkatModelLawyer wrote:
I second Diamante. I'm young and black people always assume either that I'm a half wit or some type of criminal. That is, until I open my mouth. I'm more eloquent than most white, middle class 40 year olds (white middle class 40 year olds have told me this). I attended a college preparatory boarding school, I'm consistently on my university's Dean's List, and I look neat and tidy every day in my Top Siders and Abercrombie wardrobe. Nothing is more offensive or ignorant than pre-judging an individual solely upon the basis of the color of their dermal pigmentation. Skin Color is nothing- Content of individual's (not an entire race's) character is.

singerlink wrote:
Mr.Vick apologized in a repenting manner,this is good enough for our LORD and GOD,but not good enough for the dog owners or neighbors........The LORD
JESUS turned to the Scribes,asked,"what is the greatest commandment"?Scribes
answered,"hear ye O Israel,the lord is one,you should worship HIM with all
thy heart,soul and might"........JESUS answered"well said,there is another
as great"love thy neighbor as thy love thy self".........
I thought JESUS took our sins upon HIMSELF,fotever,that includs mine,yours and Mr.Vick's.In closing he who is without sin cast the first stone..AMEN!

I fear for the future of civilization after reading those comments.

How dumb are those Falcons anyway? That organization is fucked. There trying to make Vick out to be some kind of martyr? How fucking stupid can you get.

Also, D'Angelo Hall should concentrate on football and shut the fuck up. His new nickname should be "Toast".

so i had a big discussion w/ some of my students - students i think most people would label "jocks" or "thugs" - about this during break time the other day.

most of them were totally disgusted by vick.

a few of them made the case that vick isn't any more guilty than the owner of a slaughterhouse. sure, he was torturing and killing dogs, but so do chicken farmers and veal farmers. they doubted that vick was motivated by amusement - they figured he was motivated by profit.

i argued that killing animals is motivated by necessity. they said people could live off soybeans + lentils, but that killing cows and chickens was a

i tried to bring up the fact that motivation isn't everything. wanting to make money might motivate someone to be a teacher or a drug dealer, but there's no way the two things are equal. they said i was making a spurious comparison, and that to make it fair, i'd have to compare two types of drug dealers: one that works in social norms, and one that works outside social norms. they said i might be a school psychologist prescribing ritalin for profit, or a dude on the street selling crack. then it would match the vick/farmer situation more closely.

all in all, quite cynical for 16 year olds!! mind you, this was like 3 out of 12 kids and the others were strongly anti-vick. still, i had trouble dismissing their arguments out of hand.

ps i blame this on gangster rap

the bit that got cut off = "killing cows and chickens was within our social norms"

Look, I WHOLLY subscribe to the concept that everyone is due forgiveness, regardless of their wrongs.

HOWEVER

A whole lot of Christians (all of 'em - Baps, Presbys, Catholics, Lutes, etc.) take this to mean that once they've said they're sorry, they shouldn't be punished at all or looked upon as a man redeemed.

FUCK THAT.

Should a man who raped and murdered multiple women or stole millions upon millions of other people's money or mismanaged a company or organization so as to gain personally while driving that thing into the ground be forgiven because of a simple "mea culpa"? NO. You must atone for your wrongs.

And, in a society like ours, being put in jail or suffering other punishments, and thereby serving as a detriment to others who might consider perpetrating other, similar crimes, is one form of atonement.

Michael Vick systematically and over the course of YEARS raised, trained and killed dogs for the purpose of a blood sport. You may not be a dog owner, and therefore not as prone to feeling as strongly about this as I do, but that man didn't make a mistake. He committed many, many wrongs. Should he be forgiven? Sure. Who am I to judge when that will happen, if at all? But do I have to take him as the same guy he was BEFORE all of these things came to light and were subsequently admitted to, just because he said "I'm sorry"?

Nope.

Detriment should read deterrent .

And anyone who blames this on the system needs to understand this fundamental, and wholly-informed-by-religion, aspect of the American justice system:

The American Justice system does not reach justice. Only God can do this. But, as we are a society that is made of humans and not directly informed as to the opinions of God on our day-to-day activities, we have the justice system in place to reach the best approximation of justice that we can.

I'm feeling a little Old Testamentish today. Sorry if I'm preachin'.

http://www.commonsensefarm.com/images/Ingredient_sub/500soapbox-pic.jpg

Admitted. Totally admitted.

Only I don't have boots like those.

Isn't some brave soul going to defend dog fighting as a vital aspect of inner city African-American culture?

nope, not trolling at all

xpost here you go dally^^^^http://www.mojito.ch/images/upload/cherry_garcia.gif

Isn't some brave soul going to defend dog fighting as a vital aspect of inner city African-American culture?

Wait, you mean like Newports, chrome rims on SUVs, drug dealing, un-wed mothers or fried chicken?

quite cynical for 16 year olds!!

If I had gone through early adolescence and driver's ed during this bush administration and 9/11 etc. I'd be really suspect of adult ethics as well!

16 y/o was peak cynicism 4 me

those kids are pretty much right tho

vahid's students basically otm

Which ones, the 3 cynical ones or the 9 who think Vick's a pig? I'm going with the latter.

go fuck a whore

vahid's students essentially *off* the money because they know what a social norm is without really examining it

the argument "oh, it's just a social norm" isn't a very strong argument. yes, they wear throwback jerseys to class and i wear a shirt + tie, and that's a case of different social norms, but that doesn't mean that the gap between killing fighting dogs and killing cows for leather couches or purses is the same as the gap between throwback jerseys vs shirt + tie

just because some social norms are arbitrary, or appear arbitrary, doesn't mean that social norms actually *are* arbitrary!

"go fuck a whore"

Your mother free today?

that should say "all social norms"

gentlemen, please, you're transgressing nrms of civilized behavior

I get insulted because I think a guy who tortured, maimed and killed dogs for profit should serve his jail sentence. Nice work.

t/s fighting dogs vs fighting dawgs

so vahid your argument isnt that killing dogs is worse than killing cows, its that the way in which the dogs were killed (or the reasons for the killing)?

"the reasons for the killing" is what i tried out w/ the kids but they weren't buying it!

I have to admit that's a decent question, in light of the big industrial slaughterhouses' treatment of their animals.

xpost

i dont have a lot sympathy for the "cows are dumb and therefore deserve to be killed/dogs are smart and we shouldnt kill them" argument

not that anyone here was making that argument obviously

i mean, i find the whole "fighting dogs" thing repulsive on a base, instinctive level, but i don't think that means i can just dismiss it out of hand as a "mere" social norm

the other side of that is my feeling that just because an ethical argument is *logical* doesn't mean it's actually ethical ... it might be the best position from which to argue but not necessarily the best position to hold.

well i have no idea what your point abt throwbacks and ties is there but its absurd to sentence a man to two years in jail for killing animals in a country where millions of animals are killed legally every year. probably most of the dogs that were seized from him will be killed by the state.

not saying that theres no difference between a dog fighting ring and a slaughterhouse. but the punishment is just ridiculous - its based on the deluded belief that dogs and cats are at least half human - give the guy a fine and move on.

i was trying to argue that killing for food + shelter is better than killing for entertainment, to which the kids replied that there wasn't any evidence vick was actually *entertained* by killing dogs - he was doing it for the same reasons.

should we prosecute racehorse owners who push their horses to the point where they break legs and get shot on the track?

yah dog racers kill those lil dudes wholesale trying to breed one that can run fast enough

the other side of that is my feeling that just because an ethical argument is *logical* doesn't mean it's actually ethical ... it might be the best position from which to argue but not necessarily the best position to hold.

Entirely true.

And, if we take out of the equation the whole concept that man has dominion over the earth and its creatures, don't slaughterhouses and dogfighting get a whole lot closer to each other? There is no one who has spent any time around cows that can't say that they aren't intelligent beings with personalities. Why should the widespread breeding and killing of them be any better than that of dogs?

It has to do with the utility that their killing represents. And dog fighting serves no utility, other than for sport. Which can be had elsewhere.

The kids make a good argument. I'll give them that. One that deserves to be explored and teased out in a learning way - something we used to call "a teachable moment."

its pretty tarded too that profit is judged a morally superior motivation than enjoyment

its pretty tarded too that profit is judged a morally superior motivation than enjoyment.

Not at all - its all about greater utility adding to the entirety from which all can draw, as opposed to consuming and discarding that which could be better used.

And I would argue that a dog could be MUCH better used as a pet than as a gladiator, if only from a longevity standpoint. And don't come with the "pit bulls aren't suitable pets" bullshit. I have numerous examples in my neighborhood to the contrary.

j.s. mill sucks

Deontological ethics or deontology (Greek: δέον (deon) meaning 'obligation' or 'duty') is an approach to ethics that focuses on the rightness or wrongness of actions themselves, as opposed to the rightness or wrongness of the consequences of those actions.

Consequentialism refers to those moral theories which hold that the consequences of a particular action form the basis for any valid moral judgment about that action. Thus, on a consequentialist account, a morally right action is an action that produces good consequences.

But is it possible to have a deontological defense of an action that you KNOW the wrong consequence of?

michael vick you have been sentenced to two years in prison because your form of animal cruelty doesnt contribute enough to society.

not to mention breeding animals to eat is the least utilitarian thing in the world - consumes like 1mx the resources than growing food.

not to mention breeding animals to eat is the least utilitarian thing in the world - consumes like 1mx the resources than growing food.

^ hyperbole

jhø i think youre forgetting that puppies are very cute and sometimes we even give them human names

we need jessie monster's opinion on this

NO ITS TRUE IT CONSUMES LIKE 1MX THE RESOURCES

yeah it sure is expensive having to deal with all those cows and chickens after they've been killed and eaten

michael vick you have been sentenced to two years in prison because your form of animal cruelty doesnt contribute enough to society.

If by "enough," you mean "at all," than yes, I agree.

breeding animals to eat is the least utilitarian thing in the world - consumes like 1mx the resources than growing food

This is an entirely fair point, but at least there is SOME utility thereto. Breeding dogs for the purpose of them killing or maiming each other, not to mention the ones that are bred and summarily killed prior to ever fighting because they don't meet certain criteria, serves NO utility at all.

Well, I guess you could make the argument that, in some circles, dog fighting is just like any other recreational competition, from basketball to poker. In that sense, it does have some utility - it creates social interaction, it allows for enjoyment by those involved, and it can turn a profit for those who are more-than-recreationally involved therein.

The problem is that we as a society have deemed dog fighting to be undesirable, and therefore illegal, and being involved in the enterprise of dog fighting, and gambling thereon, is also therefore illegal.

From the utility standpoint, kiddie pron provides enjoyment to others, and is thereby somewhat defensable. But, like dog fighting, its been deemed undesirable, and is therefore forbidden.

So, yes, I did just make the analogy that kiddie pron = dog fighting.

they found a cow cruelty place right around here one time, it took thousands of people, some paying hundreds of dollars, to clean it up

the cows were a real risk, if they had gotten out of their pens, the way they had been trained, they could have killed people

"1mx" should be adopted as the standard rule of measure for everything.

since cows are often bred for companionship and are sometimes quite intelligent, it was difficult to eat them

what does horse meat taste like?

the cows were a real risk, if they had gotten out of their pens, the way they had been trained, they could have killed people

Executive Producer Upton Sinclair presents

Killer Cows: Escape from The Jungle

everything illegal = kiddie porn

Hmm. Using the language of my post, yes.

I see your point, and it is well-made.

Nevertheless, the question of dog fighting will never be resolved in favor of dogs fighting in this country. Ever.

tombot, blam: go fuck whores

the mechanism for dealing with raising cows and other animals for food is already institutionalized in our society

the mechanism for dealing with raising dogs for sport is not - it is an exceptional circumstance and a costly hazard

jhøshea, eat shit

fuck whores 1mx

1motocross

hey guys speaking of motorcross who wants to see a picture of evil kinevel

I think a society can make a value judgment between feeding people on the one hand and training dogs to fight and kill each other for gambling purposes on the other. I only agreed with the point above that treatment of the animals in the slaghterhouse is inhumane prior to slaughter. I hope Vick has a hellish two years in prison.

go fuck a whore

I guess I better go fuck one too, 'cause I hope the same.

I'm still waiting for your mother to call me back, I guess she's busy with other customers.

xpost of course

wishing someone a hellish time is pretty repulsive behavior

Yeah, I feel bad about it. I need your moral guidance.

BTW EVERYONE GO FUCK A WHORE IS AN ILX APPROVED LAZY ZING FOR BILL MAGILL SO U CAN ALL GO FUCK WHORES

Whore fucker.

the whore store called

"BTW EVERYONE GO FUCK A WHORE IS AN ILX APPROVED LAZY ZING FOR BILL MAGILL SO U CAN ALL GO FUCK WHORES"

Mature stuff, dude. "Lazy zing" is kind of an understatement.

srsly tho the moral grandstanding and self-righteous aggression over this bullshit is pretty gross

i know u all luv lil doggies but shiiiit

not saying that theres no difference between a dog fighting ring and a slaughterhouse. but the punishment is just ridiculous - its based on the deluded belief that dogs and cats are at least half human - give the guy a fine and move on.

They call a dog "man's best friend." Not his wife or his children. Dogs give unconditional love and affection to people in a world where such things can be found in few if any other places. Neither wives nor children, no matter how much they try, do that.

It was a short step for any dog owner to go from those dogs to their own dogs.

And then and even shorter step to imagine, however quickly and involuntarily, those harms being visited on any dogs they've had in the past.

So, when Michael Vick was linked to an operation that did any number of cruel and deadly things to dogs in a systematic way, it was no large series of jumps for people to apply their feelings for their dogs to those dogs Michael Vick had.

Deluded? No. Emotionally driven, and therefore probably less-than-totally-logical? Probably.

But, as I own a dog, fuck Michael Vick. Guy's a fuckin asshole.

Like moral grandstanding about soliciting prostitutes. I'm sure call-girls all over the world are grateful to you for standing up for them.

xpost

Comparing dog-fighting to soliciting prostitutes? shiiiit

calling his mom a whore in response, however, is a sure path to the high ground, eh Bill?

regardless of how I feel on the issue of Vick, i concur that you should probably go fuck a whore.

what if the prostitutes were dogs???

Hey man, I didn't bring up the whore thing, he did, not my problem. I was just posting on the topic until it got sidetracked like that. No regrets here.

boom! I fucked your whore

i like dogs, i had a couple as a kid. do i think people's weirdo anthropomorphic projections should should result in a man's incarceration? no.

as for bill magill: i wasnt comparing anything, i was just suggesting that maybe you should go fuck a whore, as is yr want.

I will, you paying? How the hell do you know what my "want" is, you don't even know me. Do you really care about what I posted on a thread on that topic a few months ago about something I did about twelve years ago in a place where it happens to be legal? I guess i'm flattered, because I don't give a flying fuck about anything you do.

srsly tho the moral grandstanding and self-righteous aggression over this bullshit is pretty gross

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ndzli4x1TWW4RM:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/DJHexa/potblack.jpg

dont u see what youve made me do - next ill be fucking whores w/bill magill

oh shit I wish I had remembered "go fuck a whore"

I don't know if you want a prostitute to be your first time, chief. She might hurt you.

xpost

I'm done on this thread. You guys have fun obsessing over my sex life. Maybe someday you'll have one yourself.

great job everyone

I'm off the prostitutes because of you!

sorry bill - srsly i dont care if you fuck whores or not - its just a fun thing to say to someone who disagrees w/u

however i do think itd be wise to get a new login and never ever reveal anything abt yr personal life on ilx ever again

like arent you a republican too?

Go check a post I put on the Presidential Candidate thread this morning, that should answer your question. I would have thought you would have known that, since you seem to be obsessed with me.

Do you think you could ever get me to change my screen name? I don't need your stupid advice. I doubt if we met you would have the courage to get in my face you fuck. Nice courage in the safety of the bedroom of your mommy's house. I guarantee you would not find it "fun" to say shit like that to my face.

Nice way to ruin a thread, you dick. Merry Christmas

how dare joshea ruin a dogfighting thread with his talk of whores!

no see i was just joooking bill jeez

bill magill doesnt joke

he just beats the shit out of dudes

ts: michael vick vs. being a trick

Bill, change your name to "e-thug" plz.

Even though I can't stand Oprah, and am annoyed by Burns, if I could vote for anybody in this race right now it would be Obama.

-- Bill Magill, Wednesday, December 19, 2007 10:22 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

i am officially a bill magill stalker now

that doesnt make it clear whether or not hes a republican

Obama: Soft on Prostitution

Enjoy that.

x post.

WTF @ thread

bill is like the hardman version of louis in "just keeps asking for it" department

i still think he might be a republican

people people why are we fighting

just for fun

plz dont incarcerate me

God are you an annoying little putz

I'm done on this thread. You guys have fun obsessing over my sex life. Maybe someday you'll have one yourself.

-- Bill Magill, Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:00 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ts: zing syndrome vs. last word syndrome

zings win obv duh

is bill magill relation to magilla magilla gorilla

uh i mean stfu u gay

xp

one or the other will be ILX's downfall.

xxxpost

1. Bill, please stop taking jhosh'z bait, he's clearly not aware that somebody might actually get angry from being told to go fuck a whore.

2. jhoshea, please stop baiting Bill.

but i caaaaant

(even if more often than not it seems to be its raison d'etre)

but aaaaanyway. Fine the dude. Community service, PSA's, whatever. 2 years?? seems excessive.

just be cool down in front ... don't push around ...

brothers and sisters, come on now, will you cool out??

everybody be cool now come on.

settle down the dog fighting is abt to commence

mandatory periodic psychiatric evaluations, maybe.

I think a big part of the 2 years was that the judge and the DA were pretty unhappy with Vick perjuring himself on the first go-round or whatever

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_mccann/12/10/vick/index.html

it's a shame you can't get the article in the SI print edition on Vick and other athletes' troubles stemming from "ghetto loyalty" as a phenomenon; it was really thoughtful and actually made you feel a bit sorry for the dude in the end (of course, it's SI)

RIP lil kim

do white people just turn their best friends, though? is there no loyalty in the burbs?

i feel sorry for dude he got shafted - of course our justice system brutalizes less rich and famous guys way worse everyday - but still

That was a good article, Tom. Baron Davis seemed to be the voice of reason in that article, if I remember correctly.

yeah but baron davis is a total chucker

What the hell does that mean? An inaccurrate shooter? Who cares?

the duke lacrosse rape was thrown out, so they had to scratch the "burbs loyalty" story

hes so talented theres no reason to be taking contested threes off the dribble early in the shot clock. although he has reined it in a bit over the past year or so.

The move to GS has resuscitated a career that was headed seriously south.

"how does he have the courage to take those shots?"

Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.

jhosea ruined this thread!

go fuck a whore

Alright, so apparently cockfighting is part of Dominican culture, and therefore Juan Marichal and Pedro Martinez should get a pass for attending a cock fight.

I think this is quite different from the Michael Vick situation, but still pretty abhorrent. Thoughts?

For the actual video, go here. It is a little graphic.

Only Koreans eat dogs

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/vick/now.html

Bill, please stop taking jhosh'z bait, he's clearly not aware that somebody might actually get angry from being told to go fuck a whore

hahahaha

SURRY, Va. -- Former NFL quarterback Michael Vick plans to plead guilty to state dogfighting charges, a step that could allow him to qualify for an early release from federal prison and into a halfway house, court papers show.

In a motion filed Oct. 15 in Surry County Circuit Court, Vick's attorneys asked to have him enter his plea by video teleconference. A hearing on the motion is scheduled for Oct. 30, Surry County Circuit Court administrator Sally Neblett said Tuesday.

The court papers note that allowing Vick to appear on two-way video would save the government the considerable expense of transporting him from prison in Leavenworth, Kan., to Surry County. His guilty plea would also allow him to pursue a halfway house program.

Under federal rules, Vick is ineligible to be released to a Residential Re-entry Center in the federal system until any pending charges against him are resolved.

In a statement, Vick attorneys Billy Martin and Lawrence Woodward said their client "is committed to taking responsibility for his actions. He is hopeful that, through this motion, the trial court will allow him to finally resolve these matters and put the charges behind him so that he can begin to focus on his future and to prepare to be reunited with his family."

The plea deal, if approved, also would satisfy the county's need to hold him accountable for the grisly crimes he bankrolled and participated in at a rural house he owned there.

"I'm not trying to make him suffer," Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald Poindexter said in a telephone interview. "I'm just trying to make him account for what he's done."

Vick pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy charges tied to the dogfighting operation last summer and is serving a 23-month term. Three convicted co-defendants also face local charges. The U.S. Bureau of Prisons lists Vick's projected release date as July 20, 2009.

Vick will have three years of federal probation upon his release from prison, and the deal offered by Poindexter would tack on an unspecified jail sentence, which would be suspended, and an additional year of probation in the county, he said.

Poindexter said he's not sure how quickly the judge would rule on the motion.

If permitted by a judge, Vick's video participation in the plea hearing would not be the first time he has participated electronically. Prison officials in Kansas have allowed the former Atlanta Falcons star to listen via telephone line to each of his several bankruptcy hearings in recent months.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/magazine/12/22/vick.dogs/index.html

this seems like it was a lot longer ago than just 18 months or so

house for sale
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/05/05/74/bigbox_hood_974055_splurgevick.0302_HS15.JPG

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2190715438_d12a5f026e.jpg

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vickbankruptcy&prov=ap&type=lgns

Lede of the story is that dude will work construction when he gets out of the clink, but article mostly about the details of his release.

Still, he'll work this job for 90 days at the most before some much bigger gig, but there you go.

The road back to the NFL: How does Michael Vick get there?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-05-28-michael-vick-cover_N.htm

to the road?

Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.
― B.L.A.M., Wednesday, 18 July 2007 16:05 (1 year ago)

Said it, still mean it. Fuck this guy. I hope he's broke and pathetic for the rest of his life.

Conditionally reinstated.

condition #1: do not encourage dogs to tear the living shit out of each other

the lead story on my local news yesterday was the police raiding a CANARY FIGHTING RING

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha

tweety noooooooooo

Yeah, he's a low-life. He was also a shitty quarterback.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/07/27/Police-bust-canary-fighting-ring/UPI-60621248725865/

wau

canaries should be outlawed, they are bred to kill

http://www.thesuperest.com/heroes/k76_mff_canary.jpg

http://www.dollgenie.com/2008/2008-Black-Canary.jpg

Unless you're a vegetarian, or better a vegan, then you really have no moral leg to stand on when denouncing Vick. What is done to cows and pigs, also mammals, is far more brutal than what Vick did to dogs. There are several slaughterhouse fortunes, backed by corporate wealth. How much big money do dog fighting promoters make?

...And what's truly hilarious are those Philadelphia Eagles fans who decried Vick's signing. Eagles fans are among the most abusive and violent in the NFL (no small feat). The amount of pig flesh they cram down their throats before and during games keeps abattoir torture functional and profitable.

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2009/08/pick-your-vick.html

i mean this is right, but it's also wrong. i'm not convinced that running a dogfighting ring is the exact moral equivalent of eating meat. wtf does this guy know about eagles fans anyway beyond what the internet tells him?

dennis perrin sure has a lot of opinions

American Fan: Sports Mania and the Culture That Feeds It by Dennis Perrin (Hardcover - Jan 2000)
30 Used & new from $0.32

he sure is a dumbass

I wrote jokes for Bill Maher

Fuck Dennis Perrin. I am trading him off of my team in Madden as soon as I get home.

That guy is NOT great in the new version of the Madden at all. Totally dropped off in the stats.

Dennis Perrin forgets that comparing two wrongs and declaring one of them to be the greater wrong does not make the other one right. Plus he is an asshole.

Fuck Dennis Perrin. I hope he suffers a debilitating injury and fucking dies.

(Jk, guys. Eagles guys bring the <3, I promise.)

Luckily for Morbz and Dennis Perrin I AM a vegetarian. ANd I suppose if Oscar Meyer or Frank Purdue played for the NFL I might support banning them, too.

i am a vegetarian and fuck this guy.

In what whacked out universe are dogs not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pigs n cows anyway?

Pigs are smarter and more interesting than dogs.

i am a vegetarian and fuck this guy.

― Samuel (a hoy hoy), woensdag 19 augustus 2009 10:59 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

^^ Co-sign

Pigs are better tasting than dogs.

I would bet that as a whole, Eagles fans have a much higher per capita rate of scrapple consumption than any other NFL team's fans, so there is that.

btw alec baldwin is saying basically the same thing as perrin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alec-baldwin/michael-vick-black-sheep_b_260990.html

well, kind of a nicer version of the same thing, basically saying we should examine our own standards of how we treat animals before condemning vick

In what whacked out universe are dogs not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pigs n cows anyway?

Yeah, Perrin certainly didn't address that, eh?

I'm sure none of you made it to the moneyshot at the end (you know, dogs vs Afghan children).

Pigs are smarter and more interesting than dogs.

― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 11:19 (1 hour ago)

Srsly? More intersting than this?
http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/2009/07/01/dog_fire_jump.gif

"I'm sure none of you made it to the moneyshot at the end (you know, dogs vs Afghan children)."

I saw Dennis Perrin wrote it and you linked to it and then I ignored it.

morbs i admire your restraint for not c/p'ing the nonsensical obama/vick parallels he tries.

uh, who's that? I don't know who that is.

Fetchboy, that gif sort of proves that pigs are smarter than dogs imo.

also, Alex -- don't address me in your posts anymore, please.

smarter /= awesomer

Dog's on some canine Jackass trip. It'll end in scorched nads and a hangover I bet.

Dunno who Perrin is. I don't have a major problem with what he's saying about our inconsistency when it comes to our concern for animals, but he could have said it in a bit less of a trollish way. Can't vouch for the Obama stuff though.

Dennis Perrin can't do anything in a less troll-ish way.

Seriously not going to read his piece, but if his point is human beings care more about dogs, an animal which has been domesticated as a pet for nigh on 15,000 years, than they do about animals which they been killing/eating for at least as long then that's not exactly a contradiction of epic proportions here.

He's commenting that it's a moral contradiction rather than a cultural one.

Only if you equate eating meat as being morally equivalent to forcing dogs to fight each other and then killing them. Which most people don't thus it's not really much of a contradiction.

this "dennis perrin" seems like a sad and miserable person.

It's the meat industry's torture of animals that is the point of comparison.

(I am a shameless carnivore so this is all theoretical for me)

"It's the meat industry's torture of animals that is the point of comparison."

But all meat is pretty inevitably going to come from what can really only be described as the torture of animals. And he's most talking (in the section quoted above) about the eaters' complicity in that which apparently makes us too "morally compromised" to be outraged about what Michael Vick does or whatever.

whatever it is it's missing the real point which is that no one apparently believes in paying yr debt to society and being allowed a second chance anymore.

Only if you equate eating meat as being morally equivalent to forcing dogs to fight each other and then killing them. Which most people don't thus it's not really much of a contradiction.

Exactly. Animal rights groups are always going to have a hard time getting past the meat = sustenance equation most of us carnivores hold as true.

"whatever it is it's missing the real point which is that no one apparently believes in paying yr debt to society and being allowed a second chance anymore."

When did people ever believe that?

There are all kinds of permanent consequences after paying one's debt to society, though. My wife's stepfather served a few years in prison on felony drug charges when he was in his twenties. (Some 30 years ago.) He's been clean ever since. But as a result, he can never be bonded, nor can he be licensed in his chosen field of architecture. Nor, come to think of it, can he own a handgun.

xpost

when white people got arrested

I think it depends on the crime and whether or not you find Jesus.

Animal rights groups are always going to have a hard time getting past the meat = sustenance equation most of us carnivores hold as true.

― Adventures of Dog Boy and Frank Sobotka (B.L.A.M.), Wednesday, 19 August 2009 18:28 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

I call bullshit here. You can farm a hell of a lot more non-meat products in the same space it takes to raise x animals and feed a hell of a lot more people if meat was not such a staple of people's diets. However, I also refuse to be a preachy vegetarian, so i'm going to stop now before boring everyone/myself.

it is a sad and miserable world

xp Yeah you convinced me real good right there.

i guess i'm just interested in the impulse among the public that two years in federal prison was not enough punishment--be it motivated by race or the nature of the crime or whatever.

But all meat is pretty inevitably going to come from what can really only be described as the torture of animals.

nah

Well I think part of it has to do with the amount of money athletes are paid. If Michael Vick was going back to his job at Walmart. I think people would be less worked up about this.

pretty sure it is possible to get beef from cattle without waterboarding them

yeah i guess we do have a pretty big blind spot when it comes to treating athletes as employees.

"nah"

Right it's going to be the way we get meat that involves nicely asking the pig for its ribs and loin and then it just complies.

There's a difference in 'paid his legal debt to society, free him' and 'he deserves to be a millionaire again and that's not going to bother me at all.'

There was an equal amount of uproar, maybe more, about Stallworth getting 1/24 the jail time of Vick, so I don't think there's a double standard being widely applied here (by the public).

The real target for ire should be the NFL, of course, where a DUI manslaughter conviction gets you booted for a year.

guys let's talk about vegetarianism on the Internet again

dude i've been a vegetarian for 10 years now and even i recognize that killing animals isn't the same thing as torturing them

xpost ok

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2800991295_3b3f1ae8fc.jpg

meat is torture

There's a difference in 'paid his legal debt to society, free him' and 'he deserves to be a millionaire again and that's not going to bother me at all.'

do ppl really not separate these two things? his job is unrelated to his crimes.

how much do you tip your butcher?

they don't get tips! do they?

I haven't seen anyone say that part of his sentence should be that he's never allowed to play in the NFL again. So, yeah, they're unrelated in that way. But expecting people to forgive and forget heinous acts committed by celebrities is remarkably naive (and perhaps unfounded - I don't know why it's my job to wish him well because he got out of jail).

If Bernie Madoff had gotten a couple of years in jail, do you think people would have been okay with him resuming a place of wealth and power? If Ken Lay had lived, etc.?

bernie madoff executed a scam--he would not be allowed to resume his position of wealth and power.

Dude, seriously? You don't think white-collar criminals have access to their previous world when they get out of jail?

er, don't have access to their previous world

the guy ran a singular scam for over 20 years--he had no discernible skills beyond lying to people--please explain to me what exactly he would do?

this is not like a ceo getting rehired after doing something shitty. i understand why that happens--not sure how it compares to vick tho.

"please explain to me what exactly he would do?"

Have a reality show?

pretty sure it is possible to get beef from cattle without waterboarding them

Oh boy, having flashbacks to that one scene in Earthlings now.

Madoff worked in the financial industry for 50 years. He wasn't running a scam for that entire time - he wouldn't have been able to get into position for his scam/fund if he hadn't been rather high up the ladder to start with.

ehh yr attempt to draw parallels between vick and madoff/lay is not working for me man

Also the thing is that I don't really give a shit if Bernie Madoff gets out of jail 5 years from now and gets a reputable honest job not stealing things. How the hell is it my business? If this is where we are in the world, why not just execute everyone convicted of a crime?

i cant believe this even needs to be said, but the meat packing industry is not in the business of torturing animals solely to satisfy blood lust and generate something to bet on. the inhumane conditions are a matter of practicality, not entertainment. vick went out of his way to torture and kill highly intelligent and aware animals in extremely groteseque ways. that's why, say, comparing dogfighting to bullfighting is valid, but comparing vick's crime to bullfighting isn't - he went above and beyond.

fuck yeah.

Everytime i see pictures of some of the bitches from that kennel that resemble my own dog i get a little bile from knowing that guy would've joyously killed something i love, just for a powertrip thrill. So I got a personal beef in there, no pun intended.

http://11.media.tumblr.com/9cyPFQbgCmavk0j0v9fUw3bho1_400.jpg

Ha!

I like Michael Vick. please don't sb me
Not that I ever seen him speak, not that I know anything about him besides him being a great quarterback that got into some trouble dog fighting. Oh and they tried to catch him for weed at least once.

Sometimes I cheer for the con man. Like how people loved Dillinger...
Also Vick is far less evil than OJ if that makes a difference in any of youse opinions of him.

yeah dog fighting is unforgivable. i'll like him even if I don't forgive him I guess.

I mean I'll like him as a player
also i cheered him on in the past (I'm a georgia boy)
and I kind of look like a cross between Michael Vick and Rick Morannis

tragicomic mulatto

It's not just dogfighting, though. He murdered several dogs himself. The dogfighting is almost beside the point.

I call bullshit here. You can farm a hell of a lot more non-meat products in the same space it takes to raise x animals and feed a hell of a lot more people if meat was not such a staple of people's diets. However, I also refuse to be a preachy vegetarian, so i'm going to stop now before boring everyone/myself.

Right. I accept as true that the farming of plant matter is a whole lot less taxing than the farming of meat.

HOWEVAH - farmed animals = meat = food is pretty much a constant for a whole lot of people.

and I kind of look like a cross between Michael Vick and Rick Morannis

http://jimbocyberdoc.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/urkel.jpg

saw a guy on halloween in full michael vick uniform walking a pitbull around

Lol.

http://is7.itookthisonmyphone.com/m/00118/14b41af8-7bd9-4bc2-a861-76e40aff70b2/2e714168-984b-4575-842e-e1742a2089c4_426x568r270.jpg

Just testing. BLAM face, still saying "Fuck you, Michael Vick."

reality show taping and one good season as a backup behind him, I'm surprised to find that the rehab seems to have reached the point where he might play as a starter next year. maybe washington?

I'm hoping for the raiders. Just feels right!

Tucker Carlson, bastion of righteousness