Liverpool still won't win the premiership (2007/08 edition)

Not strictly prem-related, but Mark C / Dave B - are either of you going to AFCW v FCUM on Saturday?

Any (prem) predictions?

Yup! I'm going with my Man U supporting (but FCUM founder member-being) mate Ben, occasionally of this parish, so say hi if you see me!

Everyone else is predicting Man Utd this time round, but I'm liking the look of Chelsea's reinforcements a bit more. Man Utd's could go either way really (especially Nani and Anderson, maybe Tevez as well if he ever turns up). Chelsea's have the look of just providing cover where they were lacking last year and slotting people into a system that's worked in the past. They'll go back to 4-3-3 and be ruthlessly effective again.

It all depends how they get through the African Nation's Cup period though.

I don't like making predictions before all the transfers have been sorted out (especially the Tevez one) and I haven't been paying much attention over the summer, but I reckon:
-Man United or Chelsea to win it
-Liverpool third again
-Spurs to finally break into the top four
-Arsenal to finish outside the CL spots and Wenger to leave
-Wigan, Fulham and Derby to go down (actually, more likely Sunderland than Fulham, but I'd like to see Keane keep them up)
-Birmingham to finish one place above the relegation zone and Steve Bruce (sadly) to get the push, only for Brum to finish bottom of the table the following year

Not sure about Reading: for fantasy football I've gambled on them having another good season, but they might do a Wigan.

@MarkC - I'll definitely be there, possibly via a pub in Kingston first (trying to sort out meeting the handful of other southern FCUMers). How many do you reckon will come? Kingsmeadow The Fan's Stadium The Cherry Red Arena holds about 4,500, doesn't it? I think there'll be 2-3 thousand, but I'm a bit nervous of pay on the gate just in case I get locked out by foolishly leaving it to the last minute.

I just managed to get hold of two tickets for the Traditional Charidee Shield on Sunday for £15 each! That's crazy. They were on general sale from Man Utd - (obviously I'm not a member any more) - there can't be much interest in this one if they're just flogging them for peanuts to Joseph Public. Personally, I don't normally even bother watching it on the telly as it's a meaningless friendly, but I quite keen to get a look inside Wembley.

You'll be fine i think, but if you're concerned, just stop by the ground on the way to the pub and pick up tickets that way - unless they've changed security arrangements it's possible to simply by your ticket and turn round, rather than going through the turnstile.

I reckon 3k is about right - it's the most highly regarded friendly, and FCUM do actually have a few fans.

traditional 'how it won't finish':

1 Chelsea
2 Man Utd
3 Liverpool
4 Arsenal
5 Tottenham
6 Newcastle
7 Portsmouth
8 Blackburn
9 Aston Villa
10 Everton
11 Man City
12 West Ham
13 Reading
14 Bolton
15 Sunderland
16 Fulham
17 Birmingham
18 Middlesbro
19 Wigan
20 Derby

1. Chelsea
2. Man Utd
3. Liverpool
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal
6. Blackburn
7. Everton
8. Portsmouth
9. Aston Villa
10. Newcastle
11. Sunderland
12. Reading
13. West Ham
14. Middlesbrough
15. Man City
16. Bolton
17. Birmingham
18. Fulham
19. Derby
20. Wigan

I am being a bit harsh on Man City there and I think Sven will do fine as a Premiership manager but they need to make a shitload more signings before I'm putting them any further.

That whole run from 6th to 10th is anyone's really. Blackburn look pretty stable and have a good squad and a great manager, Villa are a bit of an unknown quantity.

Seeing as Alan Curbishley appears to be collecting every overpaid, underachieving second or third rate British footballer out there, there's no way he'll be able to keep them under control. Sacked by Christmas.

Arsenal's positioning really depends on whether Van Persie and Adebayor can score enough. I'm pretty sure they'll beat Tottenham on both occasions.

Sunderland to hit that magical 'top six at Christmas' spot. It is possible I have a little too much faith in Roy Keane. Newcastle = get one defence and the noises Fat Sam is making lead me to believe that might not happen. Boro - no bludy idea.

Matt DC you are harsh on Man City every year!

I like how you're bullish on Tottenham, but I think Liverpool is going a bit high there.

BAD PREDICTIONS GO!

1. Chelsea
2. Man Utd
3. Liverpool
4. Arsenal
5. Tottenham
6. Blackburn
7. Newcastle
8. Everton
9. Portsmouth
10. Aston Villa
11. Reading
12. Middlesbrough
13. Man City
14. Sunderland
15. West Ham
16. Bolton
17. Birmingham
18. Derby
19. Fulham
20. Wigan

I wanted to put Tottenham lower actually, but although I don't see any reason why they will do as well as everyone is predicting, there also aren't any teams that look at all likely to take their spot.

I imagine Spurs will come second or something now. This is my secret ploy for ensuring my Fantasy Football team does well, as I lay all my (secret) hopes upon Berbatov's feet!

1. Man Utd
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal
6. Aston Villa
7. Everton
8. Portsmouth
9. Blackburn
10. Newcastle
11. West Ham
12. Man City
13. Sunderland
14. Reading
15. Fulham
16. Middlesbrough
17. Bolton
18. Birmingham
19. Wigan
20. Derby

I am being harsh on Man City because they basically need to buy an entire squad. Except a left winger. Which is kind of the wrong way round.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/6921902.stm

£6M for Reyes. Isn't that hella cheap in today's stupidly cash rich market?

1. chelsea
2. manchester united
3. arsenal
4. liverpool
5. tottenham
6. blackburn
7. aston villa
8. west ham
9. everton
10. newcastle
11. bolton
12. portsmouth
13. reading
14. sunderland
15. manchester city
16. derby
17. wigan
18. middlesboro
19. birmingham
20. fulham

that bottom 8 could well shift around

Yes, especially when West Ham drop 10 places.

8th is ridiculously high for West Ham - why on earth would they be expected to do any better than Newcastle have done over the past few seasons?

I have absolutely no idea how Boro are going to do. Could be midtable mediocrity, could be relegated. How good is Tuncay then?

Because 4 of the 5 sides you have finishing above them are

8. Portsmouth
9. Aston Villa
10. Newcastle
11. Sunderland
12. Reading

portsmouth: headed for a mediocre season, punched above weight last time out

aston villa: yes

newcastle: as you imply, west ham will finish roundabouts same place as newcastle. also, newcastle still have no defence, questions about strikers staying, allardyce complaining about lack of funds etc

sunderland: i put them too high also, keane factor or no, theyre going to find this season hard going

reading: lost sidwell, very little transfer activity. need to get off to a good start at old trafford

Newcastle were keeping qutie a few clean sheets at the end of last season. They weren't scoring goals at the same time but I think Martins might do better this time, and there's Owen. They may start slowly tho.

Pompey's momentum still rising surely - tho the squad hasn't strengthened significantly (neither have their immediate rivals tho).

If Viduka can play as well last season as he did last, Newcastle will be alright.

Portsmouth punching above their weight, maybe, but factoring in the clubs most likely to underachieve and that's got to be the Hammers surely?

who needs Tevez when you have Ashton back ehhhhhh?

Did Viduka really play that well last season? He didn't seem to do much till right at the end...then got a couple of braces against sides whos seasons were over

I suspect these drifting-back-toward-midtable predictions for Everton are about right. I think we have the 5th or 6th best first XI in the Premiership and did very well last season maintaining our place in the top six despite the lengthy injuries to Cahill, Johnson, Vaughan, etc. We didn't disgrace ourselves against the Resented Elite either - beating L'pool/Arse at home, leading both Chel/ManUtd late into the game, taking points at Stamford, Emirates, Anfield (compare & contrast the 04-05 Champs Lge team - hanging grimly on to 4th without Gravesen - getting tanked by Arsenal in May). But I think we've lost a little ground in the close season splurges, Vaughan's out again and we've not replaced Beattie (he is going, right? Sheff U?).

Not going out of every Cup competition as soon as our ball is plucked from the bag would be considered progress this season.

I couldn't give a toss about anyone else; just as long as the thread title is correct. I wish the season was still a couple of months away.

I was very impressed with Everton/Moyes last season almost as much as the 04/05 season. I think UEFA Cup campaign might weigh them down a bit this time is all.

Last season was better than 04/05, I think. Sans Tommy G we took 21pts from the second half of 04/05, which is practically relegation form. In 06/07, we scored more goals, played better football and genuinely outclassed a few sides. Subtract the shambolic last 25mins vs Man U, the FA Cup debacle, McFad's dismissal vs Arsenal Kids in the League Cup and the infuriating AJ-is-a-diver nonsense, it was a great season - maybe the best since the '80s. I hated every minute of it.

I think Viduka started scoring about halfway through last season, and then continued pretty consistently without anyone really noticing.

A lot of those goals might have been in cup tournaments though, can't really remember due to it being Middlesbrough and my not giving a shit.

He only scored 3 of his 19 before Christmas, though two of them were winning goals (vs Chelsea and Everton).

Portsmouth will apparently try using a 3-5-2 formation this season in some matches. Presumably using Taylor and Lauren as wing backs with Kranjcar giving a floating attacking role with 2 holding midfielders.

I still think Portsmouth need a right winger with pace for a 4-4-2 formation and another striker if Andy Cole and LuaLua leave.

3-5-2? Have you employed Glenn Hoddle or something?

wish list for pompey:

SWP from Chelsea or Royston Drenthe from Feyenoord - would be ideal to inject some pace.

Kanoute from Sevilla FC as a striker.

Pompey played most of 02/03 in the Nationwide Division 1 under Harry with a 3-5-2 - and went up as champions.

with jason crowe at right-back. remember him?

jason crowe is now at northampton town, when he left pompey i was surprised when he went to grimsby town [then in the third tier] - he could have played at a higher level.

My "Prediction:"

1. Chelsea
2. Manchester United
3. Tottenham
4. Arsenal
5. Liverpool
6. Newcastle United
7. Blackburn Rovers
8. Manchester City
9. Everton
10. Portsmouth
11. Aston Villa
12. Reading
13. Middlesbrough
14. Bolton Wanderers
15. West Ham
16. Wigan
17. Birmingham City
18. Sunderland
19. Fulham
20. Derby County

How I came to this:

- Nobody else put Tottenham above third, so despite not reaaallly thinking they will finish this high, I've put them there because I would love to be the only person who called it on that off-chance it occurs.

- I have no faith in Sunderland, and apparently everyone else does-- another opportunity for an "I told you so" and this one might even be more likely! I'm not much for Roy Keane. Sorry Mackems.

- I got bored after doing my bottom 4 and top 8 so the rest are somewhat randomly chosen.

How mad would you be, after reading this, if I was bang on at the end of the season?

furious

Who do you support again blueski?

1. Manchester United
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal
6. Everton
7. Newcastle United
8. Aston Villa
9. Portsmouth
10. Blackburn Rovers
11. Bolton Wanderers
12. Reading
13. Middlesbrough
14. Sunderland
15. West Ham
16. Wigan
17. Manchester City
18. Fulham
19. Derby County
20. Birmingham City

Any one from the top two, I think it will be very close. I expect Arsenal to struggle and maybe miss out on a CL spot. Tottenham should keep scoring for fun and maybe add a wee bit more consistency and finish above Arsenal for the first time in yonks. Reading losing a good player and not being a "surprise package" any more will see them drop down a bit, especially with what I expect to be a resurgent Newcastle and Villa. Man City and Wigan will struggle but survive again. Sunderland will maintain enough momentum from the Championship to ensure survival. Birmingham will be pish.

Alan Smith to Newcastle it seems. Good move for him I think, barring injuries he should play a fair few games what with Owen probably being injured, Viduka being fat and Martins being sulky about having to play Derby.

I wish I had the balls to make predictions.

It's okay to admit you think Liverpool will win the title Pete.

Liverpool - it's all about FERNANDO TORRES. I think he is a bit of a jessie, but I hope he proves me wrong.

I think TEVEZ will be PLAYER OF THE SEASON.

I saw an advert in a telly shop today (OK, it was John Lewis) and it was footage of LFC in action and the slogan was "The beautiful game just got more beautiful". I thought about Michael Jones.

I suppose it was about HIGH DEFINITION.

Is anyone going to get Setanta Sports for 9.99? I'm not. I have no idea if it is a good deal or not.

I would quite like to go to the Charity Shield, for the reasons mentioned above. How does one go about obtaining tickets for fifteen nicker? That is quite reasonable.

I too wish the season were two months away. Such is my enjoyment of Major League Soccer. I wonder if Juan Pablo Angel does a video blog for Colombia or wherever he's from.

I am glad to see Villa have been upgraded to "unknown quantity" rather than the usual "big pile of shit". I think they will continue to be a big pile of shit, but will finish eighth, not ninth, as so many people seem to predict.

I shall be interested to see how MAN CITY get on.

I wish DERBY COUNTY well. Billy Davies (?) is waiting until the end of the transfer window to make his moves.

I think transfers are possibly more interesting than football itself these days.

Tevez will take about a third of a season to get going and suddenly become unstoppable.

Torres will be amusingly rubbish and this year's Shevchenko. Six goals in La Liga = lol massive flop in the Premiership.

turns out - we get setanta for free - or we do for now anyway, I bet they turn it off just before the season starts :(

Matt - are we having a bet on that?

Villa snap up American teenager
Aston Villa have completed the signing of United States Under-20 international Eric Lichaj.
The 18-year-old former Chicago Magic defender will go straight into Villa's Academy squad.

Lichaj is Villa's first American signing since the club were bought by Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner.

The 6ft defender, formerly at the University of North Carolina, will not be able to play until September as he is recovering from a broken foot.

"He signed a two year deal with options," said Lichaj's agent Steve Kelly.

"He was injured before he signed, but they saw his talent before that."

1:Man Utd
2:Liverpool
3:Chelsea
4:Arsenal
5:Spurs
6:Blackburn
7:Newcastle
8:Aston Villa
9:Everton
10:West Ham
11:Portsmouth
12:Reading
13:Man City
14:Middlesborough
15:Sunderland
16:Bolton
17:Wigan
18:Fulham
19:Birmingham
20:Derby

Derby and Birmingham surely certs to go down. Only putting in Fulham cos I hope they do. Either Bolton or Wigan would be nice though.

Can't see Spurs breaking top 4, it's more likely that they'll be pulled back by Blackburn, who've bought well up front. Everton never have two good seasons in a row, and Man City and West Ham have made too many changes to do well under dodgy managers.

I did not realise that the Charity Shield is today. That is TOO SOON!

One of the money teams is going to go down this season, dunno if it'll be Man City or West Ham though.

Presumably Man City when Thaksin goes to jail forever and the club is sued inside out by the government of Thailand.

I was thinking last night that Hargreaves could be a totally crucial signing for Man U and I can see them winning the Prem at a canter this season.

Oh, and Sunderland for a Top 10 finish.

Oh, and Allardyce gone by January.

Nah, Allardyce to miss out on Europe by one point then to be fired three games into the 08/09 season

At least the West Ham players know each other - it could take months for Sven to put together a cohesive squad out of a load of disparate foreign players bought in the space of a fortnight.

Fulham have spent £20m! How did that happen?

I'm trying to reconcile this late "start of the summer" feeling with this early start to the season and it's not really working.

Allardyce will be around for ages. They're not going to let him bring half his Bolton backroom team with him just to sack him after a season.

If Newcastle are bottom 3 for any length of time, which I can see, he'll go. That job is horrible and near impossible.

Reading and Everton are the only two teams to have not signed a striker off-season.

Allardyce will be around for ages. They're not going to let him bring half his Bolton backroom team with him just to sack him after a season.

You've gotta remember that Allardyce doesn't have the fans on-side, all it's going to take is a couple of bad results, or the chance of Europe to vanish, and they're all going to start chanting for Keegan or Shearer or Sid the Sexist for manager.

laffing at underachieving Newcastle will never ever get old. and yeah, Everton could well stage a relegation challenge.

I suppose I'm hedging my bets on Newcastle due to not really knowing what the new board will do. Not having to deal with Freddy Shepherd is a bonus.

Also Allardyce has generally bought well over the summer - could do with a couple more defenders but Capaca is a strong signing.

Top marks to The Sun for the headline in the "Hossam Ghaly's transfer to Birmingham cancelled after he refuses to run in training" story:

WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN

kenny dalglish on the top 10 predictions...
http://tinyurl.com/2t4x5u

King Kenny's Premiership Top Prediction

1. MANCHESTER UNITED
2. LIVERPOOL
3. CHELSEA
4. TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR
5. ARSENAL
6. EVERTON
7. WEST HAM
8. PORTSMOUTH
9. BLACKBURN ROVERS
10. NEWCASTLE UNITED

King Kenny's on Krack

Free Setanta forever on Virgin Media telly, hurrah! Except I'm moving to a non-cabled area in three weeks, boo!

Kenny's gone mad! West Ham in seventh?

Saturday: AFCWvFCUM
A great day out apart from the strange smell of sewagehttp://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r299/crunchydog_2006/AFCWpenalty.jpg
Sunday: Wemberlee
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r299/crunchydog_2006/wemberlee.jpg

I got AFC Wimbledon into the Championship on FM2007, btw.

What did you think of Wembley?

Better than I thought it would be. I was one row from the back, so right up at the top, and it's pretty steep there, but you've still got a decent view. In fact the view was great compared to the equivalent seats at Old Trafford (where you're crammed in like sardines and the roof comes down so steeply that you can barely see the far touchline, never mind the rest of the stadium).

Don't think I've ever been so high up in a ground, or had so much leg room. What about the atmosphere? It was rubbish at the cup final.

I've got vertigo even looking at that Wembley photo.

Matt, you've left yourself wide open for a Spurs gag there.

The atmosphere was alright really. At least it started off boisterously for both halves and then died away after half an hour or so. I suppose that's the difference you get when all the tickets go to supporters instead of corporate sponsors / regional FA officials etc. (and also the effect of several hours drining lager in baking sunshine). You're right about the legroom: normally you feel they've just tried to fit as many seats in the ground as possible, but this was spacious.

did you have a pie? they're nice but not worth the queue or the price

My mate had one. It didn't look appetizing at all.

i have a feeling you only get "free" santana on virgin of you've got the [scuse me] XL telly package, which we don't, so to get sultana we'd have to pay an extra £9 a month, although banana are showing a lot of conference blue square premier (retch) matches...

...cheer dickie.

argh, it's not even that simple, as the cost of our sky sports package would come down if our telly pack got more expensive...

(clearly i am rly just doing this to get to watch the baseball on NASN ;))

Ooh explain how the baseball ties in?

In what way was breaking up the TV rights supposed to be better for the Great British Consumer again?

stop them consuming hopefully

It means you get a legitimate excuse to go to the pub more.

If you're on XL package with Virgin you get the Setanta Sports package except for NASN (which is baseball heaven) for free. If you're on a smaller package you pay £8? a month and NASN is included. To get NASN if you're XL means you have to shell out the £8 a month as well. (if that makes sense)

Breaking up the TV rights means you can get some live Premiership football for less than a tenner a month on freeview and you don't have to give your money to Uncle Rupert in the process.

If I see an entire Premiership game live on TV this season I'll be surprised.

Why pay for Sky when you watch it in Chinese for free? They'd better not have closed that site down in the summer...

hmm if you can get it to actually work...

It only let me down a couple of times last season. But when it did, it was very frustrating.

were you using PPLive?

Sometimes Sopcast and sometimes one another that I can't recall.

were they showing the Sky Game cause occassionally they screen different games abroad...

wait, whut? i don't get NASN with the XL pack??? man, i'm SO p!ssed off with virgin since they dropped sky and sky sports news anyways, maybe i'll ring them up and tell them i'm going to sky unless they are very very nice to me (ie free baseball)...

the site i use seems to have pretty much every game played that night/day, including non-Sky prem, serie a, bundesliga, la liga. the quality is shite and sometimes it'll cut out mid-pass, but that adds to the fun and is still better than martin tyler.

Why do you want to watch baseball, you nutjobs?

I recorded last night's "Football Years" which was 1980/1981 and I am just going to watch that every week for the duration of the season.

I also watched that New York Cosmos documentary and thought well, what a lot of fuss about nothing.

So how about that whole Spurs breaking the Big Four thing, then?

I think the initial giddy rush of enthusiasm and optimism in every Spurs fan evaporated the moment they saw that team sheet. Forty odd million spent and Paul Stalteri and Anthony Gardner are still managing to make the team. No width at all either.

Plus, I already hate this man:

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/mcshane1.jpg

Sunderland will be absolutely fine in the Premiership by the looks of things.

mcshane wouldn't have looked as good if the ref hadn't seemed determined to allow as many niggly fouls on berbatov as possible.

and, ok, nobody wanted to see gardner or stalteri on the team sheet yesterday (let alone tainio on he right wing, come on BMJ this doesn't work) but to be fair the real problem yesterday was the rank performance from jenas in midfield, i've never seen a spurs player look less interested. does he think he's still at newcastle or something?

i'm glad i predicted blackburn to finish above us, as i'm sure at this stage spurs are gonna finish below fifth. i don't understand the optimism when we haven't signed a single player to solve our problem area, and blew a wad on positions that weren't a priority.

bmj out!

/rant

At least Arsenal are a goal down.

Also, Birmingham to pull off a gritty draw against Chelsea. I'm calling it.

jens lehmann ftw

what a tw@! that is a beautiful thing.

birmingham going for the roller-coaster draw instead, by the looks of things.

Goalies arsing things up = comedy gold (unless it's your team's goalie)

Great moment just now: Alan Green says "Reading must be hoping that they'll get a set-piece, and that Kitson, with hsi ability in the air, could possibly nick them all three points" and then Kitson gets sent off three seconds later.

I've played Dave Kitson at Scrabble, FYI.

Did he get within 200 points?

We played twice, one win apiece. Surprisingly literate for a footballer/ginger

That's actually quite refreshing. I must try and catch him in interview. (I don't think he'll be interviewed today, somehow.) Whereabouts did you meet him?

(as Reading hold United to a stalemate, with Rooney metatarsalled and O'Shea the latest striking sensation at Old Trafford.)

That was possibly the most one-sided 0-0 I have ever seen. I have absolutely no idea how Man Utd did not win that game (actually, I do, Hahnemann played an absolute blinder). That said, I'm not sure Reading were even remotely interested in attacking for most of it.

If he wants to become a big Man Utd player, Nani will need to get one composure and stop giving the ball away like that.

Also, LOL Paul Kitson.

Paul Kitson once scored a hat-trick for West Ham at The Valley in a 4-4 draw. Dave Kitson got sent off for Reading today. :p

the most one-sided 0-0 I have ever seen

You didn't see Liverpool 0-0 Charlton a couple of seasons ago.

Sorry, got my mediocre Premiership cloggers mixed up.

Rooney has broken his foot apparently. England are not going to Euro 2008.

call up paul kitson

http://theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/24/DanielKitson_060424104145071_wideweb__300x432.jpg

this is such a great picture
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44054000/jpg/_44054099_reading203.jpg

That's some kung fu movie shit right there.

I think Liverpool might well win the Premiership this year. Then again, I think most other teams will as well. Except Villa.

Top of the league. Kiss my face.

note to martin jol: 3 into 2 won't go

still picked jenas and berbatov after saturday's embarassment. plays robbie keane at right midfield, leaves one right midfielder on the left and our best one on the bench. leaves huddlestone on the bench all game.

still picking paul robinson.

still picking paul robinson.

still picking paul robinson.

he doesn't have any tactical knowledge. he can't change a game. he never, never picks the best eleven available. he never drops a player.

he wasted 17 million on a fourth best striker when we needed a midfielder that can pass and a left back (which is not gareth bale, by the way)

jol out.

When, if ever, did you stop thinking Tottenham were one of The Big Clubs?

oh christ I'm going to cop it in work tomorrow

still picking paul robinson.

he doesn't have any tactical knowledge. he can't change a game. he never, never picks the best eleven available. he never drops a player.

wow how ever did Spurs manage to finish 5th last season with such a useless coach. and picking the England #1, i ask you!

do you mean how did they manage to finish behind liverpool and arsenal despite both being poor in the league and despite spending more than any team after chelsea since jol came in?

i don't know.

and picking the england no. 1?

there are at least three better english goalies in the league. and there are at least ten better goalies in the league, never mind the world (which we are allowed to buy from).

are you even being sarcastic?

Typical whingeing Spurs fan.

:)

I'm more of a typical apprehensive Spurs fan, I think. Not really a great start. I think I might get the hell away from merseyside for a couple of days.

Don't look at me, I support Man City. Nice to see a big club back where they belong.

I switched my support to Fort William a long time ago.

lol @ england no.1 = good

no-one claimed he was good

Seriously though, advocating sacking the manager who has delivered a proper European run plus back to back 5th places for the first time since the 1980s after a couple of dodgy results is BBC website at best.

We're in the middle of a serious injury crisis, especially in defence (what was wrong with Kaboul?) With the best pre-season planning in the world I really don't think Jol could have expected to start the season with Paul Stalteri, Anthony Gardner and Ricardo Rocha making up three quarters of the back four, and it was defensive fuckups that led to at least two of the Everton goals.

That said, I think Spurs may continue to come undone if Jol doesn't get a bit more ruthless with his team selection. Playing three strikers just didn't work, especially when you ended up with people hoofing up long balls to them, bypassing the midfield which still had no width in any case. Ditto failing to make proper use of what is a very big squad - if you have no wingers, why start with Wayne Routledge on the bench? What is the point of buying Taarabt if not to play him in these situations?

Also Defoe was by the far the best of the four strikers today, let that be a lesson to you.

Fair play to Everton though. Lescott is a fantastic player, would love to him in my team.

Robert Green on life in the West Ham dressing room: "The other players think I'm a weirdo as it is. I was scorned this week for saying I hated Big Brother. I can't think of anything more boring than watching people sitting in a room. Comments like that don't go down too well"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/6947333.stm

Roy Keane is RAGING

Jeez, that Spurs team last night - Robinson, Stalteri, Gardner, Rocha, Routledge, Jenas, Malbranque - these are not good players. I know it's difficult to get proper strength in depth when you're not one of the big four, but really, is that the best around?

Martin Jol - Claudio Ranieri in a fat suit? Discuss.

Actually, the opposite problem to Ranieri. Jol refuses to change things, even when it's patently not working. And that isn't just during games, that's from week to week.

Even allowing for the fact that Jol is sticking to the same underperforming players every week (whether in the right position or not) and isn't using his squad (see point about Taraabt above), Spurs are at least two players off competing for that fourth spot, and that's when we get all the injured players back.

And centre back wasn't really the problem last night, the real issue was left back. And we didn't buy one of those this summer (Jol has been quoted as saying he sees Bale as a winger).

When you see individually less gifted players hand out a beating like that last night (and it could have been more, let's face it) then you have to wonder how good we will ever be under Jol.

Spurs will not qualify for the UEFA cup this year through the league.

ironic thing about this year might be, that the 'top 4' may be able to lose a couple more than the last couple of years, as the 2nd tier have spent so much, with some looking really not bad...this means that its actually the 2nd tier that might need to be hitting the ground running, and its this that doesnt bode well for spurs. of course its very early days, but blackburn, everton, mancity(!!!), newcastle...could all conceivably rack up good early points

Yeah, the Ranieri comparison was more that he can take a club so far, but no further. The way Spurs folded in the 3-3 at the Bridge last season was very Ranieriesque. I remember us going up to Old Trafford, battering United, going 1-0 up and then taking off all our forwards as we waited for the inevitable United winner (Forlan, 90).

Have Spurs spent as much as Ranieri did at Chelsea now?

the Ranieri comparison was more that he can take a club so far, but no further.

He wasn't given the chance to take them further - unless there really was a big shared sense of 'well you've taken us to our highest league position in decades, but clearly there is no way you'd actually be able to maintain/improve on this especially with our new oligarch chairman with bags of cash, so bye bye'. Had this argument before I know, but hindsight so overbearing.

I'm enjoying being a newscastle fan one game in.

It won't last

Hey, it isn't hindsight on my behalf!

Point taken though, Ranieri was supported by the majority of the fans (largely because the alternative was Sven). And he did get us into the Champions League after spending zero in the summer and took us to a supine defeat in the Cup final, which were genuine achievements. But he spent a lot and won squat - them is the facts.

everton in top of league shocker. (did something similar last year iirc)

It only lasted about two hours last season, Koogs (until Pompey won their 3pm k/o after Everton had won the derby) - at least we've a day to bask in it this time. I'm going to stick my neck out and say - however meaningless this is - that Liverpool won't achieve this, even for 24 hours.

I think people might be getting a bit carried away with Man City after one win against West Ham, who everyone and their mum managed to beat last year and really haven't made much significant improvement in the problem areas of their squad.

is that 'our' tuomas in the f365 mailbox?

"LOL" at the xenophobic whingers now Sven is large and in charge.

I might even wear me Man City shirt in public before all hope is lost as usual.

Elano looks mighty good. Then again, so did Brian Roy.

the keano quote in the <a href="http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?in_article_id=61550&in_page_id=43";>metro</a> (based on the dom link above i guess) is proper 2002, i phoned the gaffer, stick it up yr bollocks ROY:

'But I have to say I think the game is getting less and less characters. They are more motivated by lots of different things like money and London and living in shopping areas.

MONEY AND LONDON!!!

it's grand to have you back, sir.

Perhaps Keane should sign an entire team of homosexuals? Or would gay WAGs bring incessant demands on their partner to a whole new level?

insert spurs joke

Results 1 - 10 of about 598,000 for ashley cole mobile phone. (0.34 seconds)

Women like to go shopping? There aren't many high-priced shops in Sunderland?

Who knew?

Anyway, surely the club could chip in an extra few hundred a week so the lads can use the services provided by local ladies of the night if their WAGs don't want to head up to sunny Sunderland?

This all started with Emerson's wife hating the North East, she must have got word out to the WAG's Guild.

Danny Murphy RIP.

Mr. Danny Taylor, please

1525: Remember all the brouhaha off the field at that final in Athens about Liverpool's fans, demand for tickets outstripping supply and how they're the best supported club in Europe?. Well, only a reported 640 have made the trip to France with the club for today's game.

and Toulouse is so lovely this time of year

20 min: The first shot in anger of the match, and it's from Elmander. It's not particularly good, either; it just manages to reach Reina on the edge of the Liverpool box. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE DO SOMETHING?

1550: A burst of energy from Steven Gerrard as he bustles into the box, but a bit too much elbow was used by the Liverpool skipper and the Greek referee spots the infringement.

Steven Gerrard? Cheating? Surely not. (btw I missed MotD at the weekend, is it right that Alan Hansen called him a cheat?) How much elbow is "a bit too much"?

weird that - I'm watching it and that was called for Crouch's flailing arms, nowt to do with Gerrard

it is a dull game tho, Toulouse are parking the bus somewhat

lol@BBC getting things wrong.

great goal there from the Dark Lord of Chaos

Why is this a 3:30 k/o? Shame, I was sort of looking forward to swearing at the telly later on. Now they've got an away goal one can only hope for some amusing Liverpool injuries/suspensions...

French bank holiday, apparently.

on a wednesday????

ooh assumption!

It's August 15th. It's a holiday in Italy too (Ferragosto? Madchen?). Christmas is on any day, it's not like you're unused to the concept.

christmas is the exception (oh, hold on, and new year's day)...

...but apart from those two!

it's a bit like when Inter played Norwich on a Thursday lunchtime.

I'm not sure anyone told Toulouse that the object of the game was to try and score... Reina made one save, a very dull match. Crouch was poor, but the much-vaunted Elmander was......seemingly absent

Yeah, our Bangalore (Partition+60) and Florence offices are closed but France shutting down seems a step too far.

Arsenal winning in Europe and Spurs at the bottom of the league, life is good

Stern John. Still doing the business.

They still celebrate his birthday like Christmas in Bermuda, don't they?

That and the date your family agreed to pay reparations, yeah.

I'm not entirely convinced about this new line you're taking.

Another day, another goalkeeping clanger, this time Tony Warner dropping the wet ball right at the foot of an oncoming Bolton player.

you don't deputise for David James for an eternity without learning a thing or two.

1550: A burst of energy from Steven Gerrard as he bustles into the box, but a bit too much elbow was used by the Liverpool skipper and the Greek referee spots the infringement

I'M SUPRISED HE DIDN'T GET A PENALTY

That and the date your family agreed to pay reparations, yeah.

-- Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 22:45 (45 minutes ago) Link

I laffed.

I felt pretty bad for Tony Warner. It did seem that the weather conditions were so freakishly adverse that bumping into his own player very gently was enough to make the ball squirm out of his hands. I wish I had gone with my initial impulse to have David Healy as my cheapo striker instead of last year's Irish-prodigy-gone-blegh Kevin Doyle. Admittedly, soon the hilarious goalkeeping errors will run out and he'll have to score a goal via a voluntary physical movement, but baby steps.

Have the media maybe done Man City a favour by propagating this "Erikkson is a bad manager" nonsense? As opposed to Big Sam having to have a transition season with a chairman not that much less of a twat than Shepherd, and Martin O'Neill having already had a season to build and having to weather the criticism of his last-minute transfer nonsense while he has no (0) right backs at the club? And West Ham being like, West Ham, obv

Bowyer, Bellamy and now Dyer at West Ham. Well they were never any bother at Newcastle...

So Thaksin was "given a rapturous reception" then?

While this will probably end in tears, it's going to be great fun too.

xpost alan smith will join them next season probably

and joey barton obv.

I'm just surprised they haven't signed this guy yet

haha he was mentioned in the ILX Jailbirds XI

jol out.

Oh come on, NO WAY!

Spurs fan in fickle shock.

Interesting games Sunday. Blackburn-Arsenal is the key fixture - if the Gooners win, they'll be challengers.

I think Man Utd's early season striker crisis may lead to a Chelsea procession to the title. I can't see anyone else mounting a challenge.

Yeah, I was saying on Sat'day I think Man Utd are about to have a shit season

Has Jol been sacked? not seeing this anywhere

but this article yesterday clearly kiss of death

with jol spurs could still have finished 5th. without him they will be lucky to finish top 10.

United's striker crisis is self-imposed. they should have bought a substitute for Saha, not another Rooney (bit like us last year with Gallas). But they'll be up there in May.

Liverpool will win on Sunday but we'll finish above them.

Arsenal... hmmm, I like their chops but... lots of buts, actually, but it could happen.

i hope Nani does the business in the absence of Ronaldo - purely for fantasy league team purposes. I hope Utd crash and burn generally.

i've never been convinced by jol, so not really fickle. i think if george graham had been given the investment spent since, we'd be in the top 4 by now, so i'm actually calling for a manager change about 6-7 years after most other spurs fans.

with the current squad, most decent managers would have us in 5th, to be fair.

with the money spending, most decent managers would have a better squad, to be blunt.

Plus it's about time Warnock had the chance to manage a big team.

i'd go with that, yeah. i think steve kabba could do a job with berbatov up front.

i think if george graham had been given the investment spent since, we'd be in the top 4 by now

Insanity. Jol hasn't been sacked, btw. That would be the one of the most mental football sackings ever.

I don't see Chelsea running away with the title this year. Considering both Birmingham and Reading have given them the runaround already this season, they certainly don't look like the sort of indestructable side we saw two years ago. A more brittle Chelsea team plus Man Utd already playing catch-up on Arsenal and Liverpool could lead to a fun title race.

Fergie vs Sven could be amusing as well. Watch the handbags fly, especially in Man City win.

lol at idea of Spurs doing better with English manager

I was wondering when Matt would show up!

lol at idea of Spurs doing better with English manager

fixed for the current reality under a dutch manager.

with the money spending, most decent managers would have a better squad, to be blunt.

Like those managers who did so well establishing Leeds and Newcastle as stable top-four clubs, you mean?

Also lol Ian Holloway - "tell all the WAGs we've got a new shopping centre down here in Plymouth".

United's striker crisis is self-imposed. they should have bought a substitute for Saha, not another Rooney (bit like us last year with Gallas). But they'll be up there in May.

errrrrrrrrrr surely another Rooney was a genius move since he's going to miss at least 8 games???!?!?!

You have Strachan, we'll take Jol (xp)

we just need park ji sung to be fit again.

xpost

he's immense at pro evo 6.

"tell all the WAGs we've got a new shopping centre down here in Plymouth".

haha not really related but i've been there that new shopping centre is shit!!!!

yesh, i can finish besht of the resht after shpending more than mosht.

letsh buy another shtriker, and make jenash captain.

i just amn't seeing it.

we were lucky last year to finish where we did, and fukd up over the summer. what would spurs supporters out there be happy with this season under jol?

5th again?

6th?

7th and the league cup?

we'll be lucky to finish 8th this year with that midfield.

blackburns squad looks pretty nifty again this year

I'm trying to read that as Jol but it keeps turning into Sean Connery.

xpost

i think everton and blackburn are the uefa cup spots this year, they both look very solid.

in my head it was pretty dutch, onimo.

Everton and Blackburn both look like Chelsea before Roman at the moment, solid if never spectacular. Which I suppose is what the kids want these days.

i'm having no problemsh at all reading it ash mishter jol

I'm trying to read that as Jol but it keeps turning into Sean Connery.

I thought he was drunk!

'Everton and Blackburn both look like Chelsea before Roman at the moment, solid if never spectacular. Which I suppose is what the kids want these days.'

Oi!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6b71ooeBRo

Second the good Jol impression.

solid if never spectacular

wtf, chelsea pre-abramovich were just about the most unpredictable, inconsistent team in the premiership, beating man u 5-0 one day and losing to derby (or watford) the next, plus they had ZOLA ffs, and MARIO STANIC who did one thing in his career, viz. score one of the best, most outrageous goals i've ever seen.

Yeah I never thought I'd say this but Lou1s J@gger OTM. If anyone is going to be Chelsea pre-Abramovich it is probably Spurs :/

one of the best, most outrageous goals i've ever seen

Indeed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr7WyqIrx_4

I'm not sure there's been an Everton or a Blackburn in recent Premiership history - stable, well-managed clubs who look like consolidating in or around the UEFA Cup spots without ever looking like making that extra jump.

Also in looking back blimey Everton nearly went down the year before they finishe fourth. I'd forgotten about that.

Chelsea were not THAT inconsistent pre Roman. probably no more than Liverpool at the time.

i think this 'Spurs lucky to finish 5th' thing is hogwash also. they were more unlucky to finish 5th after the food poisoning debacle.

this one is quite good too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNdefw7u-Eo

that was the other one i distinctly remember, cheers ken

not even going to bother linking zola ones

wao steed

i feel sorry for sammy lee but he just LOOKS like a shit manager

3-0 in 11 minutes.

Could Man U's 9-0 be under threat?

Watching this live on the internet (god bless the 21st Century) - Spurs look SO much better now. Huddlestone especially, when he's on form, plays like a harder Michael Carrick and totally dictates the game. Wayne Routledge is playing well too - see what I mean about playing ppl in position and actually using your massive squad if there are injuries?

Bolton are going down, I'm calling it. Revising my earlier table, I think Birmingham will stay up now, ditto Fulham.

Bolton play like a good team unmotivated at the moment, I'm sure getting rid of Little Sam will have them finish, I dunno, 15th or something.

Warnock at Bolton by the end of the season then?

What the fuck is David Pleat doing on Five Live? If I hear him say 'Chimbomba' one more time I'm going to break my machine.

Warnock at Bolton is depressingly inevitable, although I'd like to see them keep Big Sam's heritage alive by picking some disgraced cast-aside foreign manager instead. The match-fixing guy from Austria or something.

xpost: "Patrick Vieri"

Mido scores on his Boro debut, lol Tony Warner fuckup again.

WTF is going on at Wigan? Antoine Sibierski of all people with three in three.

Not going to get too carried away with a result against a very poor Derby side, but I'm still pretty happy. Adel Taarabt looks like a top-class player in the making.

This is because Sibierski is in my Fantasy Football team.

Said to the missus in the car as we were listening to the pre-match preview on Five Live - "this'll be about 4-0". I believe the Pinefox was there. I hope he wasn't late.

Usual Everton on Sky Sports News Sat afternoon experience - Charlie Nicholas (or Peter Reid or Phil Thompson or whoever): "It's all Everton, Jeff." For 20min. Still "nil" though.

have Newcastle really not scored a goal at home in the league since February?

As far as I am concerned, Sven-Goran Eriksson is just another City manager,' he said. 'That's all. Carlos Queiroz knows more about him than I do. There's a few people tried the England job and a few people tried the City job.

... Are you surprised he came back to work in England, after the grief he went through with the national team? 'No, I think he probably got a better financial offer in England,' Ferguson said. 'I think that will be far more suitable to Sven.'

Ooh this is going to be good.

!

mourinho still paying off referees, nice to see

Worst penalty decision ever. Malouda is a cheat.

Well, by all accounts Malouda wasn't actually appealing for it.

Essien has also apparently received two yellow cards without being sent off...

Liverpool have conceded twice as many pens in the first two games of this league season as they did in the whole of 06-07. Now, I can't believe Liverpool defenders genuinely only committed one foul in their own box in 38 games last season so, maybe, there's some cosmic balancing goin' on. Having said that, daftest pen since...Gerrard was fouled by a phantom in the Sheff U box last August.

sickening.

Fuck off Styles.

Ha ha ha.

Soft penalty at Anfield shock! Revenge for when Molby upended wee Pat Nevin in 87 and the ref played on...

We never forget.

Mourinho in 'still banging on about the 2005 Champions League' shocker.

I guess sometimes ridiculous decisions go against you and sometimes Steven Gerrard gets a free kick on the edge of the penalty area for bumping into somebody and then asking for a free kick.

Nah, they got fucking rinsed, Torres looks useful though.

"You're So Violent" Jens Lehmann continues to amuse.

Somebody really needs to make a GIF of Ferguson standing up in triumph thinking Tevez had scored and then slowly adopting the wounded outrage of a child whose ice cream's just fallen onto the floor.

'Somebody really needs to make a GIF of Ferguson standing up in triumph thinking Tevez had scored and then slowly adopting the wounded outrage of a child whose ice cream's just fallen onto the floor.'

This was the best bit of the weekend.

I dunno, I quite enjoyed Wenger's traditional ejection of toys from pram at a Blackburn side who had the temerity to kick Arsenal a bit, like everyone's been doing for years.

Even the broadsheets are full of reports that Martin Jol's days at Spurs are numbered and he's going to be bumped off Ranieri-style in favour of Juande Ramos. Which would make me sad unless we suddenly start winning things, and even then. Although the Independent is linking HARRY REDKNAPP with the job which surely equates to either a journalist or source being on crack.

The Ferguson GIF should probably also be accompanied by that Simple Plan "how could this happen to me" song

United-Spurs on Sunday is looking like a win-win.

Yeah Wenger is such a complete knob. Every time they go north and lose he's speaking in that hurt disbelieving way and saying "they....did not let us play" as if the team should just say "now it's your turn, come forth and attack us! jolly good!"

I watched MOTD2 looking forward to some sort of murderball slugfest and all I got was this lousy football match.

Also, Lineker on MOTD2 was a bummer. He did nothing with Fergie's coitus moment. Nothing.

I thought he'd have pushed Hanson further on the whole "WTF were you doing playing with candewax Alan?" thing.

or candle wax, even

I dunno, Hansen looked slightly traumatised to the point that he might have punched Lineker if pushed. They probably had to keep Adrian Chiles away for his own good.

I've been away, but from what I can gather United have dominated their three games, but seem incapable of scoring. Is that a fair analysis? With Rooney and Ronaldo out (and Saha, but then he never seems to be fit anyway) (and Smith and Rossi sold, but I don't know how much difference either of them would make) that could be a situation which isn't about to improve. In the last few years whoever has won the league has steamrollered their way to such a massive points total that (if that was to happen again this season) you would have to feel tempted to write United off for the league already, BUT I'm starting to get the feeling that this season isn't going to be like that. I think this one could actually be a lot more competitive with a lot more dropped points all round.

1xFerguson.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Chris1989/4zaq593.gif

Hobb - that's a pretty fair analysis. You were all over Reading in the first game of the season, for example. I'm not sure quite why this is, considering that, even without a conventional striker, you were scoring goals for fun from pretty much all positions on the pitch.

Paul Scholes' goal was a belter though.

There's a good pre-season piece by Rob Smyth in the Guardian saying United would struggle because of lack of Saha or Saha replacement and I think the same. Watching Rooney scurry around in the cup final chasing lost balls and having to do all his own work cos Chelsea played deep - a performance that Fergie thought was excellent - made me realise how much you needed a proper striker testing the back line not a euro mountain of inside-forwards.

United were immense last year before xmas with Saha, but after Xmas - bar one or two exceptional performances - I thought they were quite gettable. They'll still batter some of the more naive teams, but most managers are canny enough to realise that if you play deeper you can stop United doing you on the break as they did so often last year. Reading basically kept 10 men behind the ball and United had a lot of the ball but didn't carve out any real openings.

Liverpool looking impressive; Chelsea nowhere near best but ominous. Arsenal: wimps.

Chelsea look like the could be carved open by some plucky attacking teams this season. They really miss having Makelele there and the system they're playing now doesn't really accommodate a replacement.

could someone pinpoint exactly why john obi mikel's face is so preposterous? i really am having trouble with it.

i imagine mourinho will probably persist with the harum scarum until abramovich can't take no more.

xabi alonso is not very good any more, much as it pains the world to say it: discuss

Yeah, I was surprised Maka didn't play yesterday and Essien at right back was a big bad (poss designed to force Roman's hand re Alves), but we'll be more solid when Terry and Carvalho get back together and we've a lot more to offer going forward than last season.

xpost- i dunno. we'd have alonso at spurs, that's for sure.

re: man city 'getting battered' general consensus- does anyone else think that, on the contrary, they looked very comfortable for most of the game. very nice passing and movement, and good discipline not to gett carried away in possession.

micah richards for england CB in the friendlies?

richards should get a game defo

Alonso hasn't looked right in so long. It's a shame. He gives the ball away constantly. Probably since the FA Cup final against West Ham, or maybe even before that.

was nani a bit rubbish or is that just me?

ha nani was terrible. slowed down every attack and wanted all day to put in very poor crosses.

going to my first ever premiership match on sunday at old trafford.

jol out.

there's only the one friendly isn't there? srsly though, neither team on wednesday is going to be any cop as far as i can see, half the germans have pulled out as well...

0-0 written all over it maniche

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6954211.stm
Styles dropped for being crap

Carragher in that photo is actually almost as funny as Ferguson.

They're overdue to fire Mark "Fuck Off" Halsey into the sun, while they're at it.

Carragher looks way camp.

Banished to the Championship. That's the last time Liverpool will concede a penalty this season.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2152906,00.html

pretty shit.

Defensive injury crises and managerial-board ructions are so last year...

Sky Sports are saying they've put a bid in for Juan Riquelme...

Riquelme: "They won't let that Ramos bid me."

This is really not right at all. Judging by the massive chorus of 'I love Martin Jol, Martin Jol loves me' on Saturday (before we even scored) I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Also I'm kind of reeling at seeing what I thought was a stable, well run club moving in the right direction making a decision that frankly looks like a club in panic and could backfire badly.

We'll miss you Papa Bear.

Ridiculous. Either Levy thinks Jol has been consistently underachieving by dragging Spurs up to fifth place after 15 years of mediocrity (in which case he's wrong, and anyway - why not sack him at the end of last season and let the new man handle the summer signings?) or he thinks two defeats at the start of the season are the end of the world. This smacks of Man City sacking Peter Reid.

It is silly isn't it. Jol's doing better than Alex Ferguson!!

so is it true that the real reason is the board buying bent against jols wishes?

still unexplained, the lack of creative midfielder

good news for blackburn and man city, and...newcastle....and....ARSENAL

maybe they just got bored of making "omgwtfjol" jokes

Actually the more I think about this the angrier I am - he's not even getting the opportunity to show what he can do most of the new signings, let alone a fully fit defence.

It just makes the club look ruthless and desperate, and we'll be a laughing stock when we fail to qualify for the Champions League this season.

Jol will probably lead Spurs to victory against Man Utd now.

Best performance immediately before getting fired ever? I mean, Derby are no great shakes, but Spurs could've scored 7 or 8. It's only August, you divs! If the only concern is catching Arsenal, well, they haven't started all that well either. Idiocy.

Wouldn't take it too seriously. Sid Lowe had Alves as Chelsea's right back last Wednesday, but last time I looked it was still Essien/Ferreira/Johnson/Diarra.

BBC is a sliver less certain. It is really horrible if this happens.

It would be scandalous to remove Jol now.

Onto Wednesday, however, and another meaningless friendly. Well, maybe not quite as meaningless as most. Remember the last time?

ooooh maybe maclaren will get sacked!!!

MARTIN JOL FOR ENGLAND

i suspect this is less about jol and more about the chance to get ramos, ranieri/mourinho style.

jol would be a seriously great england boss!

I would *love* Martin Jol to be England manager, but yeah I suspect RTC is correct here.

Ramos and Riquelme arriving in one week would be a pretty massive bolt from the blue. I'm not really sure what to make of all this. Can I assume that Riquelme has gone crap, bearing in mind his only options appear to be join Spurs or continue to be exiled to the Villareal reserves? Why has no one else put in a bid?

basically it's cos riquelme is a enigma fanny, and needs constant mollycoddling on and off the pitch. he's still got the skills though, but only if the whole team revolves around him.

oop haha that was supposed to be a strikethrough

where's this riquelme rumour coming from anyway? i'm not sure he's ramos' kind of guy.

what about afonso alves going to Boro...seems kinda weird, he was being linked with Liverpool and Chelsea at the start of the season for huge sums, now they're talking about Boro for 6.5m

this season is just kind of weird all round so far, perhaps thats what happens when everyone is laden down with cash and no one knows what is happening

Riquelme's agent sez Spurs have already made an offer.

Enigma Fanny would be a fairly tremendous nickname.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12876_2673635,00.html

Having big piles of cash doesn't make ordinary players any better and there aren't enough great players to go around. Clubs are now spending too much on anyone with any hint of quality because they know every other club can afford the same player (e.g. ~£9M for a goalkeeper from Hearts - 4th place in the SPL and let in a goal a game).

can't think of a more tottenham player tbh.

jol out.

but the berbatov story is bullshit.

also, to point out that contrary to reporting here it was fairly well known all summer that jol was pushing to get darren bent in against commoli's and levy's better judgement. two unbelievably inept performances against very beatable teams (and then claiming it's because he hadn't better players than tainio to put on the right wing)in light of this was always going to leave him in this position.

i'd rather gamble and run the risk of going backwards than settle for 7th-5th forever under a nice-but-dim manager like jol.

So you think the conversation went something like this?

Jol: I'd like to sign Darren Bent please.

Commoli: No, we don't think so, he's not very good and we already have lots of good strikers.

Jol: Oh go on go on go on go on go on.

Commoli: Oh okay, here's a CLUB RECORD TRANSFER FEE.

Jol: Excellent, thank you. Now I will put him on the bench.

In other words, nah.

jol out.

but the berbatov story is bullshit.

also, to point out that contrary to reporting here it was fairly well known all summer that jol was pushing to get darren bent in against commoli's and levy's better judgement. two unbelievably inept performances against very beatable teams (and then claiming it's because he hadn't better players than tainio to put on the right wing)in light of this was always going to leave him in this position.

i'd rather gamble and run the risk of going backwards than settle for 7th-5th forever under a nice-but-dim manager like jol

^^ this is the spurs we all know and love. this stability and consolidation lark just hasn't seemed...right somehow

This _is_ Spurs we're talking about, though.

xp

its good to have them back

Commoli: Oh okay, here's a CLUB RECORD TRANSFER FEE.

i don't think thfc decide the transfer fee of players they want to sign? it seems very likely that charlton and spurs would have negotiated that after spurs decided to make a bid for him.

and i'm not sure what it means when jol leaves a player on the bench. certainly it doesn't seem to have anything to do with their quality relative to the players he picks for the first team.

he shurrre ish a niyesh guy though. letsh keep him.

Bent's first goal for Spurs is the worst first goal for your new club i think i've ever seen.

i'd rather gamble and run the risk of going backwards than settle for 7th-5th forever under a nice-but-dim manager like jol

You're talking as if 5th-7th is somehow beneath Spurs, but they haven't finished higher than 5th since 1990, and they haven't managed back-to-back top five placings since 1984. Jol has lifted Spurs out of mediocrity to the point where they might finally be on the verge being one of the top teams in the country again. To sack him a week into the season on the back of a 4-0 victory just seems insane. Like I said before, it reminds me of City sacking Peter Reid in almost identical circumstances and look where that got them.

i agree with the point about sacking him now. he should have gone in the close season, early.

4th place was available for any team with a bit of consistency in the last two years. spurs aren't any closer to really achieving anything. basically, jol is a bottler leading a team of bottlers. if they were expected to finish 7th, they'd probably manage 8th.

"i'd rather gamble and run the risk of going backwards ending up in League One in and out of administration with a big points deduction and owned by Ken Bates than settle for 7th-5th forever under a nice-but-dim manager like jol."

Okay, I am being a little overdramatic and it won't happen to Spurs, but still. Essentially, this is Big Clubbism gone mad, look what happened last time any club through enormous sums of money at gatecrashing the elite as if it was the be and and end all, rather than trying to achieve it sensibly.

Ugh lack of proofreading.

if you could bottle jol how many of us would drink it?

he's more of a barrel really

Meanwhile Gabriel Heinze has lost his appeal and been told he can't join Liverpool, so god knows where that leaves him. Booed by his own supporters, possibly. This season is turning out to be even more lurid and ridiculous than predicted.

spurs should sign him, obviously.

with heinze and ramos we will win the league for sure.

he's going to lyon innit

I always like Heinze's brand of defending (i.e. tackle/foul like a nutter, take tackles/fouls like a nutter, smiling all the while - especially if it really hurts, occasionally kick a ball). I'm kind of disappointed he's become a want-away-force-a-transfer-chase-the-cash-talk-to-my-agent kind of guy.

be fair, he was dropped during an injury, and rednose now considers evra a better left back. which is just crazy. heinze is good enough to be first choice at a big european club so why should he settle for understudy to a joke?

but evra is tremendous!

Heinze was great when he first arrived, but he's not been the same since he came back from injury. Evra is definitely better, and when Heinze got a run in the team at the tail end of last season (when United's entire defence were injured) he was shite. I would happily take £6m for him, but I think it's funny that the hatred between United and Liverpool seems to have taken on an official dimension ("Thou shalt not move from Manchester United to Liverpool").

when Heinze got a run in the team at the tail end of last season (when United's entire defence were injured) he was shite.

Wasn't he played out of position at centre half though?

I think he played a mixture of positions depending on just how many were injured, but he never impressed.

I think it's funny that the hatred between United and Liverpool seems to have taken on an official dimension ("Thou shalt not move from Manchester United to Liverpool").

It would be nice to think that, but I think Fergie actually said he wouldn't sell to any of United's title rivals, meaning no moving to Chelsea or Arsenal either.

i think all the blame for spurs' underachievement should be laid squarely at whoever it was that sanctioned signing didier zokora.

or whoever continues to allow gardner into the ground.

ah seriously, when you see how good jenas can be in flashes, wouldn't you just love to beat him soundly with a hosepipe?

i thought zokora was good??

zokora is alright, actually. we have bigger problems.

like "WHAT IS JERMAIN JENAS FOR????" that is a big problem...

so that liverpool fans can say- look what stephen gerrard would be like with kieron dyers mentality.

zokora is very far from alright from what i've seen of him. runs all over the pitch like a loon and can't pass for toffee. for a supposed defensive midfielder (tottenham have no bigger problem than this) you'd get more joy out of putting a weetabix on the centre circle every match.

if i didn't know better i'd almost be blaming him for jenas looking equally pointless, but instead i think i will blame tom huddlestone's strange and inexplicable stagnation.

Spurs are a much better team when Jenas is playing*, it was only when he and Zokora were together in midfield last season that we started winning matches consistently. Zokora is such a frustrating player in that he's clearly talented but what's the point in going on rapid box to box runs if you're only going to blast it over the bar or run straight into the opposing defence.

*Probably not a better team than with, say, Juan Roman Riquelme playing, admittedly.

The stagnation of Huddlestone is a bloody crime, I think he's bloody marvellous, not quite as marvellous as Micah Richards (who was absolutely immense in the manc derby).

Now Levy's claiming that Jol is staying at Spurs, which probably means 'Ramos won't join us til the end of the season, we don't *really* think Harry Redknapp will lead us to glory so it looks like we're stuck with Martin. Let's threaten him with the sack if he doesn't get us into the Champions League and if he does, well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it'.

alternatively Sid Lowe is just RUBBISH and is making half of this up...

lolz

Spurs guaranteed to lose 4-1 this weekend.

But Spurs have denied making any offer and said: "No individual was or has been offered the position while that position has been held by Martin Jol."

all these past tenses?

No individual or has been was offered the position held by has been Martin Jol.

That Man Utd v Spurs game is suddenly rather bigger than a match played in August has any right to be.

jol out. i am gonna make this happen. i hide under levy's pillow and whisper to him at night.

will be at the match on sunday with united supporting brother.

it's either fergi out or jol out after this weekend. or both

Tottenham's last 15 league finishes (i.e. since the Prem started):

8, 15, 7, 8, 10, 14, 11, 10, 12, 9, 10, 14, 9, 5, 5

How anyone can want the manager sacked after looking at that is beyond me.

and spurs were only 5th a couple of years ago due to food poisoning.

and failure to beat west ham.

or failure to eat best ham, i think you mean.

touche like A FOX!!

whoah

Benitez: "I want to ask the Premier League why it was so difficult for Liverpool to sign Javier Mascherano, when we had to wait a long time for the paperwork, but it was so easy for Carlos Tevez to join Manchester United?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6958993.stm

Well, firstly, it took you a fairly long time to sign Mascherano because the original deal that West Ham made was so dodgy that it was always going to attract attention, and because you had to get FIFA to agree to let you break their rule about a player not representing more than two clubs in a season. Secondly, I don't think anyone would describe the Tevez saga as having been resolved easily or speedily. You dick.

"A fully fit Michael Owen would have scored that", sez Lawro in response to Owen spooning the ball over the bar from 3 yards

Ankle knack, so much to answer for

germany being managed by kyle maclachlan tonite i see.

Benitez: "I want to ask the Premier League why it was so difficult for Liverpool to sign Javier Mascherano, when we had to wait a long time for the paperwork, but it was so easy for Carlos Tevez to join Manchester United?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6958993.stm

Well, firstly, it took you a fairly long time to sign Mascherano because the original deal that West Ham made was so dodgy that it was always going to attract attention, and because you had to get FIFA to agree to let you break their rule about a player not representing more than two clubs in a season. Secondly, I don't think anyone would describe the Tevez saga as having been resolved easily or speedily. You dick.

Oh come on, that's straight from the Alex Ferguson management handbook!

dear Real Madrid, pleeeeeez sell Heinze to Liverpool now, i wanna hear the sound of one Ferg exploding

funny you should say that!!

Evidence given to the arbitration panel is likely to prove embarrassing, however, after it was revealed that Heinze’s representatives tried to by-pass United’s block on the player moving to Liverpool by engineering an intermediate transfer to Crystal Palace. Under the proposal, Heinze would have been bought by Palace and sold on to Liverpool. It is understood that the bid was revealed in evidence given to the Premier League panel this week by Phil Alexander, the Palace chief executive.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/chelsea/article2311105.ece

Rafa's latest outburst finally confirms that he is just as bats as Fergie, Jose and Wenger, if still quite boring.

Bye bye Arjen Robben, you were great when you weren't cheating or injured.

i'm surprised you can remember that far back!

what's happened to robben?

Gone to Real.

As has Heinze

surprisingly tidy sum for him as well, although i suppose shaking real down for money is a piece of piss.

belletti in = giving up on alves? giving up on glen johnson, certainly.

re robben i mean. £8m for heinze isn't bad either though.

heinze means beans

If you put Belletti, Johnson and Ferreira together, you might get Gary Neville. Guess we'll have another run at Alves in January.

£8m for Heinze is taking the piss. United have got good money for all their cast-offs this summer.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f14/snouts/groan.jpg

too late ken

Glen Johnson isn't going to get any better, is he?

that seriously looks like they thought of the headline first and then made up the story

oh someone's done that headline already? xxpost

yeah, the daily star do that alllll the time.

heinze been means (gabriel ordered to apologise for calling fergie's mum a donkey bitch)

Gabriel: I'm No Angel

£8m for Heinze is taking the piss. United have got good money for all their cast-offs this summer.

Crazy, isn't it? Everyone knew he was available for £6.8m, that he was finished at United, and that the deadline was approaching, so why on earth did Real offer £8m? By my reckoning that's £26m United have got this summer from selling Heinze, Rossi, Smith and Richardson!

That'll wipe out 2% of their debt! And they'll still have Wes Brown!
Glory glory etc

That 26m could get you one Berbetov...

Is the signing of Belletti just a collassal wind up of Arsenal? Ha Ha we signed the player who won the CL for Barca.
I wish Rafa would give it a rest with the Chelsea stuff. It's the same with all the top 4. The things they critisize their rivals for is the stuff their teams do as well! They must know this surely?
I was really hoping Chelsea would get Alves so that I could chortle at them spending 20 mill on a full back who can't defend to replace...their full back who can't defend. Although if he ends up at Real with Robben then Capello can look on in amusement at the shambles that will be the new "enthusiastic" era Madrid.

arsenal crossbar challenge

"walcott, peut-etre.... what is zat."

almunia!

The things they critisize their rivals for is the stuff their teams do as well!

I was kind of thinking that. Liverpool were punished by a penalty awarded for nothing at all, but they've won a few of them themselves. Chelsea were right to complain about Torres diving, but they're no strangers to this either.

Would it be better for them not to complain? They can't rightly do that. "Yeah, he dove, but we do sometimes too, so it's all good." Hehe.

That would make a refreshing change. "So, Jose, what did you make of Torres?" "Well, he goes down easily, some might say he's taking the piss a bit, but personally I'd be a hypocrite to condemn it considering the antics of my lads here at Chelsea and at Porto before that, so I say the boy done good." "OK...and Rafa - any thoughts on the penalty?" "Well, we've seen it on the replay, there was fuck all contact, only the ref knows why he's given that, but to be honest we've been the beneficiary of quite a few of these decisions before and I reckon it all evens out over a season so you won't hear me moaning."

I'm sorry but Liverpool have never in my memory benefited from such a shite decision in such a big game.

No team has, it was pretty much the worst penalty decision I've ever seen and I know plenty of non Liverpool fans who'd agree with that.

HI DERE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CllT_iZEblE

was waiting for that....nowhere near as bad a decision.

Aye, Gerrard's bold claim that these things tend to even themselves out over the course of a season was proved tragically wrong in just eight days

I'm sorry but Liverpool have never in my memory benefited from such a shite decision in such a big game.

Is this a joke?

Shoot!

The best I could think of was that time against Roma when the referee gave a penalty and then decided it was a corner instead. That was about as bad a losing of the plot as Sunday.

Fucking top four fans. You don't hear us constantly whingeing about Pedro Mendes' goal in 2005 or being poisoned by Arsene Wenger in 2006, do you?

I can't remember ever feeling so cheated as after Sunday's match!

That is to say I can't think of many times they were on the receiving end of such a decision either.

Don't make me say it Ronan...

I'm sorry but Liverpool have never in my memory benefited from such a shite decision in such a big game.
---
was waiting for that....nowhere near as bad a decision.

It was a bad decision. It shouldn't have been a penalty yet Liverpool got one. In a European Cup Final, not the 3rd game of a 38 game season, the final of the biggest club trophy in the world - so I think that just about squeezes into the "such a big game" category.

I'd forgotten about the Roma shambles, another European trophy won thanks to a shocking decision (and I know it wasn't the final but it played a hell of a big part in getting Liverpool there).

I'm sorry but Liverpool have never in my memory benefited from such a shite decision in such a big game.

Is this a challenge, Ronan? Do you want my full list or just the top 50 since 1977?

Oh here they all come. Yes go for it.

The CL final decision isn't even definitively a wrong call, opinions across the board were pretty divided on that afterwards.

Pete...you're not going to mention 2005 are you? That's mystifying, cos everytime Mourinho mentions it I want to scream with a loudspeaker at him "if it wasn't a goal it would have been a penalty and Cech would have been sent off".

Nah, Garcia would have been booked for foot up and Cech would have had a free kick...

And if the pen wasn't given on Sunday, Drogs would have taken it on his second touch and rifled it into the top corner while Jose did a knee slide in front of the Kop.

LOL "big game", frankly this will be academic when Liverpool drop points by drawing 0-0 with Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Derby.

You don't hear us constantly whingeing about Pedro Mendes' goal in 2005

Dude, it never crossed the line

That's the only mitigating excuse.

As for 2005, as far as I recall the penalty had been given, though can't remember if it was the ref or the linesman.

In any case, the reason Liverpool fans are so outraged is cos it was a shockingly soft penalty. It was a far worse decision than any of these examples being given. Forget Liverpool, why not just list off the ten worst penalty decisions of all time, I'm struggling to think of any occasion when there was such comprehensive agreement on a bad decision (so much so that the ref even apologised afterwards)

x-post, excuse I meant to Pete, re Drogba

Dude, it never crossed the line

I assume you're trying to wind me up.

Of course it was a bad decision, the ref was demoted to the Championship as a result FFS.

I assume you're trying to wind me up
Obviously. One of the worst refereeing (or 'linesmaning' I suppose) decisions I can recall, along with Maradona's 'Hand of God' goal, and Schumacher nearly killing Battiston.

In other news: FA Cup Winners to get Champions League place. A good thing, I think, if it makes the FA Cup a big deal again. Although it has to be said that exactly the same four clubs keep winning the FA Cup so maybe not much would change.

And if the winners are already in the top three, the extra place goes to the 4th-placed club? Boo. And if they're both in the top three? There can only be four Ch Lge places and the UEFA Cup allocation can't increase, so I guess the Cup Final has zero European impact that season.

I assume the UEFA Cup allocation will now only be league/league cup-based so if you're a mid-table (or Championship) side and lose to ManU in the Cup final, no European place at all?

I don't think Michel's thought it through. I better have a word.

champions league spot to go to the hardest-done team in the league in terms of official decisions each year. think aboubt it- do the fourth best team REALLY deserve it more?

Damnit, I was hoping that the runner up in the final would get into the Champions League, leading to the amusing prospect of someone like Millwall ending up in Europe's Premier Club Competition (TM).

worst refereeing this season is when sunderland got the equaliser vs birmingham when birminham's keeper was held on the ground with a crippler crossface by a striker while the ball was up in the air and then someone headed the ball into the net.

Why *do* the same four clubs keep dominating the FA Cup? Apart from Everton (beating Man Utd) in 95, it's been Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd (against Chelsea), Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool (against Arsenal), Arsenal (against Chelsea), Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal (against Man Utd), Liverpool, Chelsea (against Man Utd). That's a long time, and it's not like those clubs were the top four over that whole period. You'd have expected Blackburn or Newcastle or Leeds to have won it at some point.

Last season was the big one - shame it ended up as Man Utd v Chelsea because a plucky and committed and not utterly knackered Blackburn side could have won that. West Ham came pretty close as well.

the final tends to be really shit when it's two of the big 4 in it also.

whereas when it's semi finals they tend to be AMAZING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgHi3D7OjNs

Carling Cup finals between Big Four teams, otoh = r0x0r.

Everton are off.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2155564,00.html

they should TOTALLY share the stanley park stadium, this whole kirby thing is mental.

the premiershipship pullout thing that came with the observer / guardian thing one week singled out the old everton ground as a joy to visit, mostly because it was unspoiled by progress.

Did Jol really say "if anyone thinks there'll be a new manager at the club, then I'm a Dutchman"? Awesome.

how exactly do they justify demoting crap refs to the championship anyway?! cos it's not like there's any important matches going on there, noooo. gits.

yeah it's BS - I don't suppose they can fine them for gaping errors of judgement tho?

really moving one minute applause as opposed to one minute's silence at Goodison just now to mark the murder during the week.

Is a minute's applause really appropriate for a dead child? I can see for eg dead footballing legend but in this context it seems kind of weird.

I refuse to believe that Kasper Schmeichel is any older than 16.

That wasn't a penalty. It hit Brown on the chest.

Kasper Schmeichel for England, anyone?

Personally I think England should stick with Robinson or James.

in the long-term, I mean.

Short-term solution is Scotty Carson. Duh.

Yakubu is second only to Thierry Henry in the Premier League goals over the last four years.

waht

well ok i suppose so but still

For the life of me I have no idea how we lost that game - in a lot of ways that seemed our best performance of the season and United seemed to get away with things by the skin of their teeth on several occasions. Certainly didn't seem like the performance of a club in turmoil and I hope Jol isn't judged too harshly on it. Also yay Gareth Bale on the left!

Spurs deserved a draw, but it was another tedious game and it was never a penalty.

It was pretty terrible. But yeah, Gareth Bale looks great.

I don't think it was a penalty because even if it did hit his arm I don't think Wes Brown is actually clever enough to make such a deliberate yet subtle intervention.

Is a minute's applause really appropriate for a dead child? I can see for eg dead footballing legend but in this context it seems kind of weird.

Family's request, apparently. They were there yesterday, on the touchline with Moyes prior to k/o. We could have at least won for them, for chrissakes. (Bad year for kids in Everton tops; I should track down that pic of me inexpertly heading a ball against our yard wall, summer '79 [Umbro logo trim, proper badge stitched on by Mum], and burn it).

man i wish dawson and kaboul and king would get healthy because it's painful watching rocha and gardner. actually gardner wasn't awful today... but rocha. wow. he was mediocre at both ends. and keane? where was he?

That wasn't a penalty. It hit Brown on the chest.

Hi dere get one (1) eyeball. Definite arm stopped a definite goal. Penalty + red card if ref had any (1 or more) balls.

Does anyone think Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown are better defenders than anyone two divisions below them? I don't see it.

I would suggest they could perhaps get a place in Saints' starting eleven at present.

Penalty + red card if ref had any (1 or more) balls.

Having seen it again I withdraw that, he couldn't possibly see it. Linesman should have given it.

Diouf looking rather stylish in that clip on MOTD2 just now.

i'm talking about his attire, not display on pitch obv.

wraparound shades a definite plus point

Hi dere get one (1) eyeball. Definite arm stopped a definite goal. Penalty + red card if ref had any (1 or more) balls.

Lol. Every replay from every angle showed it hit him on the stomach/chest.

Every replay from every angle was inconclusive imo. The angle the ball deflected at as his arm came up makes it look like hand ball to me. My beer goggles when I watched it live said it was a stone waller and I trust my beer goggles with my life.

At absolute worst it hit his stomach AND arm, or possibly stomach then arm. In neither case would the ball have gone in the net had the arm not been there, and there's no question there was no intention to handball. So I reckon the ref and lino got it spot on (NB I don't like Man U at all so there's no bias here).

I thought it was stick on as it happened, then said ball to hand the first time I saw the replay. The more angles I saw it from, the one from behind the goal is the only one that appears to show an arm, which the officials couldn't have seen. As my mate said when we were watching it - "Wes Brown just isn't a good enough footballer to do it deliberately and make it look accidental."

I actually thought the Ferdinand(?) obstruction on Berbatov a minute or so before, when he got back up and chipped Van der Sar was a better shout.

Plush we should definitely have had a penalty - Brown hash ushed hish arm and shpread himshelf to block the shhot like a keeper and you can't do that.

Sean Connery Martin Jol agrees with drunk onimo :)

Ryan Giggs is going to bite Nani's ear off!
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44080000/jpg/_44080389_nani270.jpg

Jesus that photo is scary. Haven't seen anything like it since those 18th century Hogarth Panini sticker albums.

I dunno if this will work but i love this pic... http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/76333963.jpg

tom's all MOVE BITCH GET OUT THE WAY

it didn't work. maybe this will work

For the record, Aston Villa had 27 shots on goal against Fulham, not the 12 claimed on Match of the Day. Also, Solksjaer's retired. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_2690166,00.html

I'm quite sad about that, terrific footballer.

In the paper David James said there should be a Save Of The Month to try and make goalkeeping more appealing to kids. Good idea.

They should bring back those '101 Great Saves' videos, or possibly '501 Great Saves'. The spinoff of '501 Great Goals'. From the early 90s. Whichever one it was I'm sure David James would approve, and that's all that matters

Continuing the "He's gonna eat me!" theme

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/GravesenSDM2808_468x558.jpg

Miller remains a target for Manchester City, Fulham and Derby County and, as Sportsmail first revealed last season, Celtic will accept an offer in the region of £3m for the striker, despite the Scotland man's reluctance to leave.

Despite his early season form I think Celtic should bite the hands off of anyone offering £3M for a striker we got on a free a year ago and who has scored 11 goals. I do like Kenny Miller though, helluva worker for the team.

Mido, who scored Boro's first equaliser, responded to the chanting: "Maybe some of them were drunk or something."

"I heard it, it was very clear and I understood what they were saying.

"The chants made me want to score more goals. I was delighted to score and I wanted another."

Boro boss Gareth Southgate added: "I find it strange that 3,000 people can insult someone in that way when nothing's happened."

Southgate is apparently only annoyed because Mido has never actually blown anybody up.

Zat Knight and Wayne Routledge to Villa? Hot damn.

If you overlook the injuries of the past few years, is there an argument for Solskjaer being the best ever Premiership signing? £1.5m for a striker with a goal ratio of one in three, who won the Champions League for United and probably went a long way towards at least one title given the number of match-winners he used to score.

If I were a Man Utd fan I would give anything to have a striker of Ole in his prime right now. Actually, I would as a Spurs fan as well.

£1.2 mill for Cantona

20m the pair for rebrov and dean richards.

best premiership signing- anelka for 500k, sold 18 months and lots of goals later for 23.5m

Yes I know Cantona but I wanted to go for a less rockist pick. Anelka might be it.

what mattDC meant was

You are my Solskjaer, my Ole Solskjaer,
you make me happy, when skies are grey,
and Alan Shearer, was f**king dearer,
so Please don't take, My Solskjaer, Away.

Whoah, Antonio Puerta's died

On August 25, 2007, Puerta collapsed and lost consciousness during Sevilla's first match of the 2007-08 La Liga season at their home stadium Estadio Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán against Getafe due to a heart attack.[2] He was seen crouching and then subsequently collapsing to the ground upon moving back to his team's goal, after 28 minutes of the game had passed. His teammate Ivica Dragutinović and club medical staff were then seen immediately running to his side as he began losing consciousness.[3]After recovering and being substituted, he collapsed once again in the changing room.[3] He was taken to hospital in an ambulance, where he received cardiopulmonary resuscitation.[4][3] [5]

BBC getting their priorities right, then, in leading the sports section with Solskjaer.

Aye, it's not like Puerta played in the Greatest League In Teh World or anything.

if he played for chelsea he would have gotten a penalty for that.

the death penalty

Erm...

Sorry, I was torn between remonstrating with ken c for his tastelessness, or continuing along his path...and chose wrongly.

There've gotta be karmic consequences for that, I predict a Darren Ambrose brain haemorrhage

Good job.

xpost

this is much sadder than owen wilson acting the c*nt

I wonder if they'll acknowledge this in any of the premier league fixtures

well, they can hardly deny it. it's going to be in all the papers.

perhaps he is just hiding in Eastern Europe

^^^^^ gabriel agbonlahor mountaineering accident

worst band name ever

heaven needed a perpetually open mouth

worst opening lyric ever

struggling to think of a worse set of summer signings than the shower martin o'neill's put together. and this with a ludicrously enthusiastic chairman with a blank chequebook. mon = a bottler in his comfort zone being FOUND OUT etc etc kneejerk etc

Robbie Fowler (Liverpool, £11m), Seth Johnson (Derby County, £7m)

OK wtf?

In order to finance buying David Nugent, who moved to Pompey during the transfer window, Derby are going to sell Robert Earnshaw, who they bought during the transfer window, to Charlton.

To think, there are claims agents are leeches on the game.

waht, we have 8 strikers already

I understand Pompey are looking to sell David Nugent to part-finance a bid for Nicky Anelka, who no doubt is looking forward to a long and immensely enjoyable stint at a top European club like Portsmouth.

Come on now, Anelka's been at Bolton for 12 months now, he must be getting itchy feet.

This bit from his wikipedia article is telling:

During January 2007, Anelka stated that he would be willing to leave Bolton Wanderers for a return to former club Arsenal. However, Anelka pledged his future to Bolton Wanderers in July 2007, following talks with manager Sammy Lee. Anelka later said he would reluctantly consider leaving the club if Boltons poor start to the 2007-08 season continues.

bird celebration = i want to leave innit.

Yakubu now officially a Toffeeman, and still only 24

Yakubu now officially a Toffeeman, and officially still only 24

fixed. watch as yakubu mysteriously loses all pace and stamina aged offically 26 or so.

i don't understand

I think he's saying Yakubu is officially 24 in the same way that Patrick Vieira is officially 31.

darraghmac is making the point that a large number of African footballers in Europe lie about their ages, which explains why so many appear to be wunderkids at 19 and clapped out at 28. xp

butbutbut won't nugent and earnshaw then have played for three clubs in a year? or is that not an issue any more? or does fifa run on an august-july year? or what?

Has this ever been proven? I mean Yakuba looks older than he says, and so does Mikel, but then so did John Terry.

and nugent looks about 40 and he was still in the under 21s over the summer...

Wasn't there some big fuss about the Nigerian FA "accidentally" revealing Obafemi Martins's real age a few years ago, which was six years higher than the one on his passport? I know Nigeria was chucked out of U21 contests for a while in the early 90s for age-fudging.

why would African footballers lie about their age? they're not pop girls

kanu must be the best example- isn't his official age now only 30 or so? kanu played for nigeria in the 1930 world cup.

he was sold to arsenal because of a heart defect, apparently, but the whispers at the time were that they found out that he was about 50.

i think i've read (imagined) that bigger clubs (ie not run by harry redknapp) do all types of tests on african players now before signing them to try and determine their real age.

Harry redknapp, by the way! nothing dodgy about him, then.

xpost

i think you'll find that you can only make money as a footballer if you are under 35, or at bolton.

african footballers (allegedly) are under 35 for at least 42 years. then they move to bolton.

The same thing happens to Pakistan cricketers, for instance Hasan Raza playing Test cricket at the age of 14, or Shahid Afridi hitting the fastest ODI century aged 16. Clearly, such feats are more impressive for a player if they can make out they're especially young.

sorry to seem naive, i can't quite fathom how difficult it is to verify a player's real age, regardless of where they come from (i.e. why doesn't this happen with Eastern European players also?). Maybe both Rebrov and Shevehenko are 87 hence shitness.

i must admit when i read 'Yakubu, 24' i thought 'bollocks'...but if it's so obvious why do the media play along with it (this goes for pop girls too tho).

IF ONLY I HAD MEDIA STUDIES DEGREE

http://www.poster.net/caprice/caprice-photo-caprice-6220964.jpg

Yakubu, more or less yesterday

yeah, i'd say it's easy to print stuff calling millionaire celebrities and their backing organisations liars for profit, possibly opening myself to a little racism (backward/corrupt africa) charge while i'm at it.

Yakubu has a media studies degree I think

xxpost

Yakubu RIP, heaven needed a 38-year-old.

I think the reason this is common in Africa and not, say, Eastern Europe or S.America is that African footballers really do pick the worst fucking agents in the world.

that's what happens when you're young and naive, unlike older, more experienced european players

i mean, we all made mistakes when we were 24.

I think the reason this is common in Africa and not, say, Eastern Europe or S.America is that African footballers really do pick the worst fucking agents in the world.

Aren't agents who prolong your career and earnings at the top level the best fucking agents in the world?

Not if it basically ends with you being lied to about where you're being taken and rotting away in the reserves of a Russian second tier team instead of turning out for Juventus.

Don King should've gone around telling everyone Tyson was only 7 when he bit Evander's ear off.

bobby robson is 104

Finidi George to thread.

Easiest way to deal with this is to cut their fingers off and count the numbers of rings around the bone. Works for trees innit.

Motson always called him George Finidi

Collins "John Collins" John to thread

Not really though.

Jess Eoin, 17

I don't know if this will work

Did I ever show you guys this? One day I got bored, and was curious about the actual proximity of clubs in England (I'm from Canada and haven't never been). Today I was slightly bored and did the SPL as well.

I might change the colors, but as of now, dots on tags = england, no dots = scotland; top divisions in red, seconds in blue, thirds in green, 4ths in cyan.

You've got 4 SPL teams missing.

lol zat knight arrested on suspicion of supplying class A drugs

and class C defending amirite

:/

4 spl teams not missing, google is just a beeyotch, and you have to go to page 2, at the bottom of the list of teams.

i think i am going to delete them all and make a seperate scotland map, though. i was just curious as to how clsoe scottish teams are to englsih teams and such. WHY CAN'T YOU DISPLAY MORE PINS, GOOGLE?!

Oh yes, sorry.

Can I continue to be a pedantic prick and point out that Raydale Park doesn't meet the SPL stadium criteria and therefore Gretna are ground sharing with Motherwell this season?

I was considering putting Gretna's dot on the St. Mirren stadium, but decided instead to but it on Raydale because I had no idea where Gretna was and wanted to see it in reference to the rest of the UK. Looks prettier with the dots in separate places.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/6971325.stm

Tommy "disappointing" Gravesen returns to Everton for the remainder of the season. Hopefully Celtic are freeing up the wages for someone else to come in.

"I really look forward to coming back to Everton and to once again play at the top level," said Gravesen.

Miaow!

i knew Gravesen would end up back at Everton somehow

"I really look forward to coming back to Everton and to once again play at the top level," said Gravesen.

Miaow!

-- Matt DC, Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:15 PM (Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:15 PM) Bookmark Link

To be fair, Celtic reserves isn't quite the top level.

Transfer deadline day rather boring so far isn't it? Chelsea finally sell Glen Johnson to Pompey and, erm, that's about it.

Marcus Bent to Wigan, man. MARCUS BENT.

Ashley Young f'r England. And David Bentley.

Marcus Bent to Wigan, man. MARCUS BENT.

On loan, man. On LOAN.

Everton have been drawn against Ukranian side Metalist in the first round of the Uefa Cup

BEST TEAM NAME EVER

I EAT METALISTS!

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/GravesenSDM2808_468x558.jpg

erm, i think Deportivo O'Higgins might have a problem with that, aldo

Oh wait, Deek's mental, not metal.

I know, I was just indulging in typical ILX hyperbole LJ.

gamst pedersen, matt taylor, decent goalie to spurs total 18m

Young pyo, gardener, ghaly, robinson, defoe, murphy ekotto out total 18m

Spurs win league.

How hard is that?

C'MON SPURS 11 HOURS MAKE IT HAPPEN BICTHES

I dunno if Jol has even been to Fratton Park this season, though?

why is he applying for joe jordans' job? he's isn't good enough.

he likes their pies

cos he's fat. so he likes things to make him fat.

is this where i go off on one about how horrid you are about fat people, and that you're probably no wafer yourself?

cos i'm not really in 'that' place just now.

Glen Johnson - IN at Pompey for a 3 Million, 4 year deal.

Another possible transfer deadline day signing is on the way according to Peter Storrie. Papa Boupa Diop and Chelsea's Lassana Diarra are rumours.

Shock news:

Gary O'Neil to sign for Boro today !

BORO AGREE £5M FEE FOR O`NEIL
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_2697838,00.html

Gary O'Neil is Pompey's longest serving player having made his debut for Pompey when he was only 16 in 2000. He went on to represent England at U71, U19, U20, U21 and Captained England at England U21 level.

xp
looking forward to when you are, darling!!!!!

O'Neil finally making the step up

won't boro just buy any average england u21 player?

(suppose spurs fans are in no position to sling muck there tho)

re: O'Neil finally making the step up

The only up concerned with Boro is up north

Where did Boro finish last season? A: below pompey

how many UEFA Cup final appearances lol

how many england managers

GON is ex England U21 he is now 24, back in 2000 Tony "the Tiger" Pulis gave him his debut to make him Pompey's youngest player ever. His then nickname was Paperboy.

lolz

you could make a pretty good team out of english players, if you wanted.

I've missed this.

Back in May 2006 Boro fielded an all England team, including subs there were 14 of em.

:O

no, no i said a good team

would anyone's pick of the best eleven english players look anything like mclaren's england, i wonder?

Prediction: DJ Martian's would not

mine would but only because i know less about football than mclaren does

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Transfer+News+%26+Rumours

Looks like the deal is going through it's now on the Boro OS

Boro Close To O'Neil Deal Middlesbrough FC - The Official Site 14:26

Blackburn star Bentley was not picked for the friendly against Germany.

He was punished after his late withdrawal from the European Under-21 championships because of fatigue.

OOOOH FEAR BIG MC'S WRATH. FEAR IT.

My boring XI to face Israel:

James

Richards
Ferdinand
Terry
Cole

Lampard (Gerrard on as a late sub maybe)
Carrick
Hargreaves
J Cole

Crouch
Owen

James

Richards
Cole
Terry
Carragher

Gerrard
Nolan
Lennon
Young

Crouch
Defoe

You're 'avin a laugh

-------------Rooney
-------------Lampard
-------Barry----------Gerrard
Cole--------Hargreaves-----W'Phillips
--------Terry-------Richards
-------------Ferdinand
--------------Carson

with Lamps and Rooney interchangeable as main/support strikers, and either Ferdinand or Richards barrelling forward should the opportunities arise (thus reshuffling the back four - Cole or Barry could drop into orthodox left-back, Gerrard or Hargreaves into right-back, whilst sweeper Ferdinand or CB Richards maraud).

If you really want Joe Cole (and I think he's a player who plays well in a formation he ruins), then bring him in for Barry, but don't expect a great amount of grit on the left side of midfield.

this formation is clearly the best, in an ideal world with fit players.

Israel are probably going to have an even bigger team bus to park in front of the goal than they did in Tel-Aviv. But I wouldn't expect them to be effective on the break - will probably come down to how well England organise against and defend set pieces (aw crap...). Same goes for Russia really.

The good news is you don't need to bother about playing Beckham - tho set pieces may suffer

Also, I was going to say I don't know why anyone would pick Lampard ahead of Gerrard but Lampard scores goals and Gerrard doesn't score as many as his fanclub (the BBC Sports Department) think he does

i'm not convinced Gerrard will be fully fit is all.

Ah right, he still doesn't score as many goals as Fat Frank tho

i thought we were using fit players as available against germany

ok fully fit

Kirkland (because why the hell not)

Terry
King
Carragher

A Cole
G. Neville

Hargreaves
Gerrard

Rooney

Crouch
Defoe

I am sort of agog at Louis Hoddle's batshit formation up there. It looks to me like you'd have eight or nine players running around like headless chickens not knowing where they were supposed to be.

Also England = boring. Lets go back to mocking Pompey again.

matt dc why not open your eyes to the new total football

xpost

um, unless the manager explained it to them, matt? cos i think that's part of his job.

on that note, jol out etc.

it's quite simple: all 5 midfielders have played at full-back at some point in their careers, so any of them could slip in at the back (and temporarily revert to 4-4-2) should any of the centre-backs (who are all massive aerial presences in both boxes) choose to go forward.

default roles are thus:

carson - goalie
ferdinand - sweeper
richards/terry - CB
a.cole - LWB
w'phlps - RWB
hargreaves - defensive midfielder, makalele-style
barry - LCM
gerrard - RCM
lampard/rooney - main/support strikers, alternating as and when they feel like it.

this = football progress, objectively considered

um lampard as a striker- you do know that if defenders were to notice him at international level, he would never score again?

he has a great shot, a good finish, very good vision, good control, heading ability, and excellent movement. there's no way you can say that without at least having seen the experiment attempted.

Louis - so your idea of progression = people tried it in the 90s, realised it was rubbish and didn't work, swiftly moved on?

It's the Mansun of footballing formations!

aw hell

was this precise ideal of attacking centre-backs, a solid DM, a sweeper, adaptable midfielders with wing-backs outside and two interhangeable support/main strikers tried in the 90's? with all of those specifications?

maybe we should have a player in some kind of moving chair, with a gun

The reason for the GON sale is Pompey now have options on the right side of midfield: Utaka, Niko Krancjar and Glen Johnson [if Lauren plays RB]

Louis is to football tactics as Louis is to hip-hop criticism

Martian focuses on the real burning issue

LOL adaptable midfielders, playing for England.

You do realise what would actually happen is that teams would just run at Shaun Wright Phillips, pulling defenders all over the shop and consequently force an error, don't you?

Will any one these strikers be on the move to Premier League clubs today:

Vagner Love
Alfonso Alves
Eidur Gudjohnson
Fred [from Lyon]
Adriano

will Shevchenko get a loan move?

other possible big money moves:

Juan Roman Riquelme
Daniel Alves

Probably not. You seem to be saying that until the excellence of your tactical vision unless it is tested in practice, no-one can dispute it.

Given that that is unlikely to happen, can I just put forward the 1-1-3-4-1-1 formation using two goalkeepers but one of them can only save with his feet?

millions of crossposts to 10u15

Every time djmartian posts in a thread like this, i can only think of that kid in the penguin costume from Gregory's Girl.

if teams doubled up on SWP, SWP could double up with richards, gerrard or hargreaves and it would be sorted

UGH POOR LITTLE SWP DOUBLED UP ON BY NASTY ROUGH GERMANS

Lou1s J@gger showing a distinct lack of systems thinking here.

SWP began career at man city as right wing-back anyway

Sorted until the opposition pass to the player in loads of space because England are forced to put two players on one left-winger, you mean?

God, if we were in a pub I would be making a really offensive face at you right now.

Given that that is unlikely to happen, can I just put forward the 1-1-3-4-1-1 formation using two goalkeepers but one of them can only save with his feet?

They could make a rule that the one keeper who's allowed to use his hands remains indeterminate until one of them actually does, and he is then designated the Hand Goalkeeper role for the rest of the game. If the second goalkeeper uses his hands, he is not booked but must instead fight a duel with the opposing team's Shotgun Chair Knight inside the centre circle while play continues.

winner

SWP began career at man city as right wing-back anyway

Is that when they were calling him the New Alan Wright?

ok now i'm roffling

Matt, btw, I only said we should double up if the opposition double up. I'm sure that if the other team played with wingers, our wing backs would not only be able to cope with them, but would force them to play more defensively as a result of their own attacking prowess (provided that SWP and Cashley were available).

Plus, if a winger broke clear of Cashley/SWP, one of our centre backs could go and deal with them whilst the other two stayed put.

(the roffling was for Ferg)

there would be a school of thought that says it's ok to play more attacking formations against poor teams that you tend to struggle against in 4-4-2.

the best england team i remember played 3-5-2 in euro 96.

England Select 11 Managed by Harry Redknapp Vs England [AKA Steve Maclaren's Big Time Charlies]

GK: David James

RB: Martin Crainie
CB: Linvoy Primus
CB: Sol Campbell
LB: Leighton Baines [Wild Card / Guest Player]

RM: Glen Johnson
CM: Sean Davis
CM: Gary O'Neil [Testimonial / Leaving Game]
LM: Matty Taylor

CF: David Nugent
CF: Peter Crouch [Guest Player Ex Pompey]

UGLY British Robert Redford MCLAREN must stop HORSE WHISPERING at PAST IT nags.

the best england team i remember played 3-5-2 in euro 96.

waht? that was Christmas Tree i.e. 4-3-2-1

Seaman the sturdy bucket