Has ILE Gone Down The Dumper?

It looks as if the flaws inherent in the low security level here (at greenspun) are beginning to show. Instead of being just an ugly blot on the community that people can shake their heads at and then ignore out of boredom, a 'problem' here has more freedom to poison and warp the whole process. It's awfully hard to maintain the decorum of 'real life' in an online community unless the participants are *held* to some immutable facsimle of an identity. Some will undoubtedly argue that is the great thing about online discussions - that new freedom, unpredictability, rawness, fire, blah blah blah etc., but I don't get the sense that *that* is what most here are after. There's a lot of fun here and a lot of intelligent debate, but most importantly (in the survival sense), there has been an awful lot of trust and respect. When individuals flaunt the conventions and treat the place as their personal playground, they weaken the established bonds and poison the group mentality. It's a bit of a tight spot, as it seems that some people will just never, ever get over themselves and defer to the larger intended purpose of a place.

One of the things I love about ILE is the LUSENET technology, and specifically the way it allows you just to keep away from certain threads if you can see they're boring or aggressive. No, ILE has not gone down the dumper.

But I don't think ILE has. It goes through good periods and bad ones, it's pretty cyclical.

And it's all because !I don't give a fuck about this world!.

I must confess THIS time I actually noticed myself becoming disinterested in ILE but nonetheless I'm not too worried, there's a thread like this every month or so.

It's the casual hipper-than-thou contempt for the less-trendy tossed around by the cool kids that make it feel like a high school cafeteria.

This is a Butthole Surfers cover of 'Never Understand', no? But why?

I believe you.

ile: 31/100 uk/eire based
ilm: 21/100 uk/eire based

dude, where did all the brits go?

I blame hstencil.

(self-deprecation - classic or dud?)

(rivary + self-deprecation = I WIN!!)

(I learned it from you, Ally, I LEARNED IT FROM YOU!)

Obviously I'm very sorry and I'll try harder.

for the record, I left nyc long before I made post number one here.

(in all actuality my loins prolly do go well with bbq sauce, but then again almost everything else goes well with my loins, too)

but quite an acheivement nonetheless.

ILE is particularly good today and has been pretty good for the last few weeks.

Mmmmmbwah ha ha anyone else find it humorous to get to work and find this discussion coexisting with the "What do you drive?" thread. Oooooweee, somebody slap me.

me!

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* Thread Connections Revolutions (55 new answers, last at 5:56 am, 55 unread)
* "I singlehandedly captured OSAMA bin Laden. *pause* He was a faggot. He grabbed my ass!" (16 new answers, last at 5:48 am, 16+ unread)
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Like a bad rash.

::stands on computer and shakes fist::

-- ron (ohronn...), December 25th, 2003 12:59 AM

has the 'has the 'has ile gone down the dumper' thread gone down the dumper' thread gone down the dumper?

2005
# September (804)

2004
# September (877)

2003
# September (810)

2002
# September (728)

2001
# September (710)

quality vs quantity vs neither

I blame Balkanisation, but hey, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

possible combination of this and the swift popularity of regionalist balkanisation (motivated by range of factors).

just quite surprised by how steep the drop is after four fairly consistent years.

the lex has since taken up the baton

I can't remember what happened when now. Wasn't this worse in August with daily poxyfoolin' or was that more recent?

but do deleted threads still count in the # of 'questions asked' listed per month?

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_11473682/.HomePage/__sr_/688c.jpg?gr5QUOFBHVjG9QfG
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheHold/

one

we should settle this question with a poll, that'll be really edifying and will doubtless stimulate lots of excellent conversation

tubfurry makes baby jesus cry.

ILE's always been in the dumper, right? right?

ILE IS the dumper.

new low reached?

You posting is always a new low.

ILX 3.0 BATCHES
THIS SHIT SUCKS

Reving ancient "reviving ancient threads" threads.... etc etc
I like it, its good to see who used to be about, and what they had to say.

-- Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 September 2003 09:01 (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

i had no idea mark c was my ENEMY :(

I was FRIEND of 2002-era DG. What happened, man.

i don't know what i'm supposed to have done recently that's so offensive

DG has been understandably quiet on this issue. A good mood conducive to amiable aimless tosh will return.
-- Alan T, Friday, 1 March 2002 02:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

^^^mfkn real talk

honest question - as a current poster, why should i care if former posters have left ILX because it sucks now/is too in-jokey/is full of meanies? thats what people do when they stop enjoying something, or when something changes in a way they don't like. im not saying that stalky stuff is ok, but i dont understand the endless hand-wringing over these fantastic posters that have left the board, and i think it silently reinforces the whole golden days of ILX dichotomy that makes new/newer posters feel unwanted and unimportant.

didnt want to clutter up the meta-bitchiness thread with this, so i thought id put it here

uh shit-ton of xposts in there btw

http://downeastlearns.org/roldan/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/maracas.jpg

i can only assume people think dom is a sock puppet of mine

John, you should have posted that on the metaclusterfuck thread.

thought about just posting it as a question on ILE, still might. it bugs me.

of course, do i really want to add this to my already impressive "guy who still posts about admin log lol" resume?

I don't think you should care that people have left, JJ, but it's worth thinking about why they go. Like if it was a club night you were running, and everybody left because they were sick of the venue and the people who went and the music, that's one thing and, yeh, fuck 'em. If they leave because it's nothing but the same Boredoms track for six hours straight and there's always a huge punch up, with glasses and CSS flying everywhere, that's another thing.

Not saying ILX is either, mind.

the point isn't that the site is losing people, which is clearly not the case, but that the people here now are somehow less important/desirable than those people who have gone, cf. the pinefox's sadsack list of his friends who aren't here anymore.

the running theme is that lots of people are sad that ilx isn't exactly how they would choose it to be (or romantically remember it being) and it's tired old bullshit.

Oh my gosh I think I got some CSS in my eye!

I propose that mods only be allowed to edit the board while inebriated.

the point isn't that the site is losing people, which is clearly not the case, but that the people here now are somehow less important/desirable than those people who have gone, cf. the pinefox's sadsack list of his friends who aren't here anymore.
The general number of threads/posts trend is downwards, but it has been since 2004. There are ppl like pinefox who are harking back to some sort of halycon ILX days, but I don't think that's at all what's driving Pash or this no-meta thing -- it's about posters who are here.

i get your analogy, but the problem is that we aren't dealing with a big empty club, or a diminishing membership. despite the people leaving, ILX is bigger than ever, AFAIK. so if people are upset about people leaving ILX, this implies that it isn't because of a quantitative problem, it has to be a qualitative one. you rarely see people talking about how lots of posters are leaving in droves, but ive seen a lot of people saying that a lot of great or good posters have left because of the current uncivil/unreadable/lacking in legit discourse environment. which begs the question - what kind of posters are the rest of us that enjoy ILX the way it is, in the eyes of its current detractors?

xpostssss

css on ts

it is a qualitative problem, because people are leaving of their own accord and stating so e.g. not because of real-life issues like kids, jobs, or a new pill that makes them not have to use ILX any more; they're leaving because the ad hominem shit about them is making it untenable to post any longer from their perspective. I don't care whether those posters have been here for seven years or three months (though I'm not as likely to notice their disappearance in the latter case, I suppose), I care that swaths of ILX (outside of the regional threads, the MOLLIFY chat thread, or other rolling cliques) have essentially become hostile territory for a number of people and that the exit count continues to rise.

the whole argument being made about "if you say it here it's fair game" is being made with this really lovely assumption that's been evolving over time that anything/everything is "fair game" for something at all - you don't call something "fair game" if you mean fodder for earnest conversation, you mean "fair game" for fucking with the person who said it.

The general number of threads/posts trend is downwards, but it has been since 2004.

2006/1 94079
2006/2 82012
2006/3 99766
2006/4 87712
2006/5 95657
2006/6 80727
2006/7 73366
2006/8 57420
2006/9 75403
2006/10 75845
2006/11 66648
2006/12 4
2007/1 98195
2007/2 52238
2007/3 84534
2007/4 92889
2007/5 101476
2007/6 87792
2007/7 84254
2007/8 79861
2007/9 80435
2007/10 93167
2007/11 86283
2007/12 72389
2008/1 111294
2008/2 90844
2008/3 83796
2008/4 90883

True, there were a bit more average posts per month in 2004/2005 (a little above 100,000), but I'd say the general trend hasn't been declining or increasing in the past few years, just undulating around 90,000 or so.

Yes, the "great" and "good" posters language isn't at all helpful as it does imply that everyone left is shitty and crap, and I don't like that, although there are posters I personally miss. Part of what's behind it, I suspect, is that ILX used to have lots of co-existing cliques, but they've broken down a bit and some posters' friends have left.

This could be my own rose-tinted specs, perhaps people were always digging on threads that wouldn't usually interest them for lulz -- there was a time last year when even Aeon Flux was getting comedy raids -- but It feels to me that ILX is not as good as it was at live and let live.

xpost to JJ

ilm has ALWAYS, since its inception, been hostile territory for TONS of people.

there's always a huge punch up, with glasses...flying everywhere

You've got to be kidding, I wd totally go to this.

AFAIC this has nothing to do with some mythical gilded age and everything to do with keeping utterly boorish, boring bullshit off the top of my Site New Answers page so people DON'T have to resort to cloistered rolling stitch-and-bitch threads to make the site tolerable

never forget 12/06

No, don't get me wrong, I don't want cuddlestein mountain up in here -- one of the things I love about ILX is its low, low tolerance for idiots. But, eg, there were "comedy" raids on Aeon Flux last year. WTF have they ever done? xpost to Max

max otm

case in point: when i first got here, i only posted on ILM. as time went on, i got the distinct feeling that my posts on ILM were pretty much glossed over/cited as boring or simplistic and that i was sort of generally unwanted. so i stopped posting on ILM and moved on to posting on ILE and noize etc. now, i could have started complaining about how the environment on ILM was exclusionary and had run me off, but hopefully someone would have told me to stfu, and i certainly wouldnt expect rules to be enacted to protect my safe posting on ILM

xposts

...they're leaving because the ad hominem shit about them is making it untenable to post any longer from their perspective.

Or just less and less appealing. I understand that the neighborhood is always going to change and I'm totally fine with the new kids doin' their thing, whatever that is, but if there's nowhere where it's either feasible or comfortable to do mine, I may just move on, you know?

too many flying penises in place of serious discussions these days

The point of this thread is that people were misty eyed at day one. You often remember things as better than they were.

You've got to be kidding, I wd totally go to this.

I know, right! I'm also thinking that the flying CSS was analog to party hats, noisemakers, and confetti. Oh, it ain't no use to pine.

same boredoms track for 6 hours doesn't necessarily mean the song was on a loop btw

i never found this board to be all that hostile.

sometimes i got smacked down by ppl that are smarter than me, but it was probably good, toughens u up a bit.

i think a lot of the sense that "things aren't how they used to be" is more just that so much of the stuff that's worth discussing and worth saying has been used up....all the great themes have been turned into theme parks...there's a thread on ILM for almost anything you could possibly think about music.....all that's left to do is just, you know, either leave or stick around and continue to TALK HARD

ilm has ALWAYS, since its inception, been hostile territory for TONS of people.

-- max, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:32 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

not specifically.

JJ: What happened with you is how it should work, ideally. Not you get a thread all about you on a sub-board posting everything you've ever done for mocking, posters looking for real-life shit about you, turning up on your Flickr and all the other stuff Pash mentions, all because yr "boring" to them about music.

I don't give a shit about the history here.
I give a shit about the fact that last week I nearly quit the boards myself because I didn't want to be a "mod" where my job consisted mainly of explaining myself to the likes of rude shit-stirring motherfuckers who take perverse enjoyment in getting other posters to recuse themselves from the board on a permanent basis

There's a problem here in that all the egregious examples of what Pash is talking about are all DELETED so we can't exactly hold them up to eveyone and point and say "this, this can fuck right off, understand?" no teaching without a visual aid these days

when i first got here, i only posted on ILM. as time went on, i got the distinct feeling that my posts on ILM were pretty much glossed over/cited as boring or simplistic and that i was sort of generally unwanted. so i stopped posting on ILM and moved on...

My experience exactly, and I'm sure that's true with most others. But yeah, like Stet said, in retrospect a lot of the appeal of ILX is that it's really, really difficult to garner praise for anything you say.

what do you mean tho slock? what (new) places on ilx are specifically hostile territory?

ilm has ALWAYS, since its inception, been hostile territory for TONS of people.

-- max, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:32 PM (10 minutes ago)

this isn't true

No, don't get me wrong, I don't want cuddlestein mountain up in here

just for the record, I want cuddlestein mountain up in here

i just mean, not to tons of ppl specifically.

yeah but im not convinced that there is as much specific calling-out as people think!

i mean who are we talking about? tynan? louis, who shared all the personal info with us himself? suzy, whose meta thread was quickly deleted? alex in nyc, whose meta thread was mostly people talking about how much they liked him (and the negative comments on which were comments that had been made to his "face" in "public" before)? pash's flickr, which resulted in the immediate banning of heave without protest?

the public perception of the alex in NYC thread is woefully innaccurate, so now you have a bunch of people that never read the thread assuming that it was a long diatribe about how alex is a terrible parent

i appreciate the effort to moderate, and agree with it ... but this recent bullying assholery is really nothing new to my eyes -- it started a year or two ago and was largely ignored in the name of good-natured ribbing that (even at a cursory glance) was anything but good-natured. cf. jagger, early tuomas, ian r-m, etc.

which, of course, is unfixable, but sucks xpost

as time went on, i got the distinct feeling that my posts on ILM were pretty much glossed over/cited as boring or simplistic and that i was sort of generally unwanted.

oh dont sweat it! your posts on ILE are pretty much glossed over/cited as boring or simplistic as well.

*hotcha cha cha*

The thing with ILM is that I really didn't *love* music that much, I like it sure, but love? Maybe a few bands.

the public perception of the alex in NYC thread is woefully innaccurate, so now you have a bunch of people that never read the thread assuming that it was a long diatribe about how alex is a terrible parent

-- John Justen, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:50 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

uhhh.. alex read the whole thing and was offended.

ITMIO: i think music is okay

yah dude im not defending the alex in nyc thread, what im saying is that a bunch of dolts that dont bother to actually learn what theyre arguing about are going to assume forever that all of these controversial threads were thousand post bitch fests full of tons of posters wildly slandering away at some posters personal details, just like a bunch of people now assume that 77 was 100% meta fucking with people.

instead of 100% party

does it make it ok if it was just 40% meta fucking with people?

I don't give a shit about the history here.
I give a shit about the fact that last week I nearly quit the boards myself because I didn't want to be a "mod" where my job consisted mainly of explaining myself to the likes of rude shit-stirring motherfuckers who take perverse enjoyment in getting other posters to recuse themselves from the board on a permanent basis

fair enough, I guess it's noble to feel a sense of duty to serve as a mod because you'd been asked to. but I think it's fair to say you're thought of as an A++ poster but controversial at best as a mod, and a lot of us would rather you quit or take a break from being a moderator than just up sticks and leave because being a mod is, I can only imagine, a pretty big pain in the ass.

the fact is: it went down there. and it wasnt innocent lolz it was some serious mean spirited shit.

xxpost

alex has every right to be pissed about certain things on that thread. the difference is that a bunch of other people now assume that it was much much worse than it was (which basically was 2 or 3 posters going after alex personally and a bunch of other people standing by scratching their heads going WTF brought this on?)

xppp

uh, what beef do you have with tom as a mod?

yah well if everyone could read the thread than they wouldnt assume that would they? it was chicken shit of jon in the first place for starting that thread on secret board and its chicken shit of ilx in general to have a secret board for that to go down on.

xpost

wait, who is remy asking?

i don't think it was chicknshit of Jon, it was very calculated. how he got away with starting that thread and posting the things that Alex took most umbrage with but managed to get the flak directed towards Ian is beyond me. maybe i'm giving him too much credit.

you dont think it was chicken shit to start a thread about a poster's income on a secret board when said poster couldn't read it? uh ok.

perhaps one of these excellent mods should delete tubfurry up there and make this thread less NSFW

he was trying to rake up a shit-storm and you played your part very well. i'm sure he was delighted. xp

if he wanted to start a shitstorm he would've posted it on ile.

Now I just want to see this sekrit board to find out if some ilxor has been dumpster diving for my paystubs.

and miss out on the extra secret borad baggage? like i said, maybe i'm giving him too much credit, but if not his method was A+ xp

at best he accomplished a minor shitsquall (2xp)

jw got pretty upset at me when i reposted the thread where alex could see it so yah.. i think you give the guy too much credit.

i don't think it was chicknshit of Jon, it was very calculated. how he got away with starting that thread and posting the things that Alex took most umbrage with but managed to get the flak directed towards Ian is beyond me. maybe i'm giving him too much credit.

-- Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:09 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

it's because everyone expects jon to be an asshole at this point

if Jon sincerely complained about you moving that thread Chaki then i take it back, and he's chickenshit and dumb as bricks on top of it. it would not be out of carachter for Jon to go out of his way to engineer shit and beef, tho, so you can see where i was coming from.

why is this not worksafe, or is that a joke

has anyone ever done the IMPORTANT STATISTICAL WORK of plotting posts per thread over time?

i don't like ppl talking shit about alex in nyc

ok we're one step up out of the dumper now tubfurry has gone

uh, isn't everyone sick of talking about ILX yet?

apparently not

wow. we need more to do.

Sure does make it easier to tell who is incredibly self-important.

It does?

Yeah if you can like, read.

OH CRAP THATS WHY I KEEP GETTING CONFUSED

Good job playing the purposeful obtuse card guys.

if you want to see purposeful obtuse you should see the other thread

lol "I should?"

coulda shoulda woulda

wait so you guys arent all making squiggly line pictures to exchange

egg on my face

(without the yuk yuk comedy i am not being purposefully obtuse i actually have no idea who you are talking about)

I'd c&p but I don't wanna get banned :D

(my point was that most everyone here has stretches of shocking self-importance all of the time and I don't think you need a thread like this to see it)

uh there's definitely a spectrum

There is, but you still don't need a thread like this to see it.

this thread is all about ther evivial of butt mucous - well fuck you all, i'm out of here, and i'll never shit my filth upon your darkened doorsteps again. i can tell when my anal weeping is not wanted.

-- Queen G, Friday, March 1, 2002 1:00 AM (6 years ago)

^^^real talk

Right but IMO the difference is that there are the people who go in streaks of self-importance and then there are the people rehashing the same obscure points over on the ADMIN thread all trying to rationalize why they do/don't agree with the ideas put forth by the mods. Plus I don't read every thread so it consolidates that shit a bit. xp

i can't even remember what back then prompted this thread

dom your anal weeping is always wanted

i can't even remember what back then prompted this thread

-- DG, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 20:21 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

I think it was that "what is the most unacceptable thing to come out of yr ass" thread./ I just woke up. I think I'll go back to sleep.l

omg that thread

and it comes full circle with the anal weeping?

the exit count continues to rise

can the exit count ever go down?

hahahahahha yeah that is a good point

yes, like when felicity and the pinefox came back!

so ilx is getting better?

you've got to believe it.

http://eil.com/newgallery/Spandau-Ballet-Gold-162495.jpg

http://image.fishpond.co.nz/731458523321.jpg

"Nothing can stand in our way!"

(it had better not, cos we'll ban it)