a man needs a maid: the thread where you go all bourgie and hire a house cleaner

once i get some debts sorted out, i'd like to do this. $60/month for help with heavy cleaning is worth it to me.

okay, so, my two friends from california have insisted to me that, in california, having a maid "isn't that expensive" and "everyone does it." Is this true, or are my friends just trying to hide the fact that their families are wealthy?

i am HUGE on cleaning services. i can think of very little things in the world that bother me as much as cleaning. when i'm done with work, i need to focus on my hobbies, not on the bathtub. it's esp. easy if u live with someone - splitting the 60 bucks a month/twice a month, whatever, is not that bad.

honestly, for ppl with a busy work life and things to do on the side, i think this is perfectly OK and fantastic at that.

I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned before. Someone started a thread about it or mentioned it on another thread. He realized that they (married couple) hadn't cleaned the kitchen for a long time and were pondering the idea of getting a cleaner. I remember because I - or rather my parents - *confessed* to having a cleaner. My mum hired one about, hmm, about 15 or 16 years ago and we - or rather I - never looked back. Does cleaning build character? I'm sure it does, but so does working seven days a week, which I do. (Of course it's debatable whether running a shop like I do is considered work, but you catch my drift.) I have professed that even if I would earn less, I would still like a cleaner. Why? *shrug* You might say it's laziness or, like I do, that I have made a choice. I love doing other things (like running a shop) more than cleaning. I prefer to work in the shop to afford the cleaner.

That said, you have a tiny appartment, so maybe if I had a small living space I'd clean it as well... But I doubt it. I realize it's a luxury. Maybe if I was in a different financial situation, I'd clean our house. But I'd have to be really poor to give it up. I once read an interview with an actress who said that even when she was on the dole, she had a cleaner.

I sort of resent that i'm defending myself because you say cleaning builds character which would imply that I lack it due to my inability/unwillingness to sit on my knees and clean.

Jessie, I'm not sure about the sit in California, but it isn't that costly here. About 7 to 8 euros per hour. With the exchange rate that could be considered a hellofalot but if you just think in dollars more or less (say 9-ish) then... does that seem expensive to you?

xp or what Surmounter said, really.

people i know pay around $30 an hour so two one hour sessions per month isn't that much, especially if you're splitting the cost. this isn't through an agency, though, which i assume might be more expensive.

A lifetime of disgusted mother groaning about cleaning up my stuff has given me a lifelong fear of allowing other people to clean up after me. This mixed with a rather strong aversion to expending effort on things I'm not being paid to do means that I kind of live in a sty.

yea agencies are more expensive.

I have my personal stuff in my apartment and this thing called "shame"

TS: living in a sty with shame vs a *stranger* cleaning up your *shit*

Funnily enough if I would go through an agency, it'd be less expensive (albeit a few *bob*). Why don't I? I love our cleaning lady. In fact my parents knew her WAY back when I was about 3 yrs old and she worked across the shop from us. This town is small, oh yes it is.

i really enjoy cleaning things and household chores, for some reason. just not doing them for other people.

i spent all weekend painting my apartment and re-doing the grout in my bathroom and it was really satisfying. i have no life, though.

I should clarify--these are maids who are at the house on a daily basis and live there on weekdays.

$60/month for cleaning seems definitely worth it, especially if you are very busy person. I could probably use one, if only to throw things out that I am too much of a packrat to get rid of myself.

oh geez, that kind of maid is very foreign to me.

People get over this useless thing called shame. They don't really care. (I'm not saying you have to poop in the corner for them to clean it up of course.) They clean for a living, not there to judge your cleanliness.

Live-in maid? Fuck that. Ours comes in 3 to 4 days a week. (She cleans our house and also the shop.)

I had a woman come clean once a week when my kids were little and I was working full time, which should have been a wonderful thing except I made myself crazy with "picking up" on the nights before she would come over. I'm possibly more relaxed about it now and would like someone to come clean up the bathrooms. I'd rather clean the kitchen myself though.

I have my personal stuff in my apartment and this thing called "shame"

haha there's that too

nah, i prefer do it myself. it's really not as a big deal by the time i get done, i usually say "that wasn't so bad".

I had friends w/ live-in maids (not exactly wealthy, but working parents all around in long-hour jobs). They really hated it - teenage boys do not appreciate having anyone clean their bedroom on a regular basis.

$70, once a month, and mainly to do things my housemate and I would probably just put off forever. Used to be twice a month, but as long as we're mostly clean ourselves, it's not really necessary.

oh god! my cleaning lady TOTALLY discovered a porn mag and a pipe all on one visit.

and u know it wasn't a straight rag either so the whole experience was definitely laden with shame.

Cleaning se4rvice is BRILL insofar as it's better than spending an equivalent amount of money on speed (to get the 'energy' to do it) or a prostitute (bcz no sexing is happening over arguing about chores or chores not getting done and the consequent depression).

It is definitely my bourgie dream to someday hire a maid and fall in love with an actress because she was playing a part that I could understand (one of my fave songs BTW).

i attribute my ability to clean my house to mild OCD. i don't go in for the foot toilet flushing though which makes me think i can't be TOO bad.

Hello, that is a new measure of sanity for me.

I know a bunch of people who do have cleaning people in LA. My wife and I will get the occasional visit from an agency crew whenever we're having house guests, unless we have the time to clean the house ourselves.

And x-post to the pre-clean clean stress. Its why my mom stopped having our ladies come over when I was younger - she hated having to do a frantic pick up just to have them come and pick up.

the section about working for a maid service in nickel and dimed put me off the corporate cleaning crews. a.) they apparently treat the workers like shit, and b.) they're apparently trained in how to make it look like they cleaned stuff that they didn't really clean. for a few years my wife and i paid someone to come every 2 weeks (a nice polish lady recommended by a neighbor), to do a 4-hour cleaning for $80. now that we have an almost-full-time nanny, we just pay her extra every two weeks to do the same thing. it mostly makes a difference in things like dusting and vacuuming behind the couch and mopping that we would never get around to ourselves.

(I'm not saying you have to poop in the corner for them to clean it up of course.)

I found a dead bird behind the wall corner of my bed. I have no idea how the fuck that happened. My house is also infested with baby geckos, which of course I do not mind.

they're apparently trained in how to make it look like they cleaned stuff that they didn't really clean.

explain. (i knew i should have read that book.)

this is one of those things i could never do. i mean, i'm not saying i'm not a typical middle-class wank; no matter how much i might protest, i am. and as other threads will attest, i'm so fucking hapless around the house that i have -- just the once, mind -- paid someone to come and assemble IKEA furniture for me.

but there's something about paying someone to clean up my stuff that crosses a small, almost imperceptible, but very important line in my mind. i can't explain it; it's a knee-jerk thing.

i'm pretty ambivalent about cleaning, and i'll admit that mrs fiendish does the majority of it in our gaff (simply because i genuinely don't see the "mess" or "dirt" she sees). but even when i was single and living in the slimiest hovel in glasgow, there's no fuckin' way i'd have considered this.

irrational? yes. cutting off my nose to spite my face? probably.

setting myself up for future shame when, 10 years and a plethora of cleaners later, this thread is resurrected (on futuristic hover-style 3D holographic ILX 9000?) almost certainly.

Oh like not being allowed to use more than a few inches of lukewarm water on the floor, JB, and not allowed to throw it out when it got dirty, so they'd just be swilling cold dirty water over the tiles. In fact I think she said they seemed downright PHOBIC about buckets of hot soapy water, which is all most things NEED to be cleaned with, instead of a hundred non-recycleable spray cans of toxic chemicals (YES SCRUBBING BUBBLES THAT MEANS YOU). Sorry, are my identity purchasing decisions showing?

spencer, who do you use? e-mail me offboard if you don't want to post the info here.

I may have said this on the other "hiring cleaners" thread I think I recall existing, but I'd like to hire not a maid, but one or two professional CLEANERS, for an extreme one-off job. The kind that I think is advertised as "bond recovery" or "moving house" cleans. I want people to come in for a whole day and do the stuff I have put off for way too long: srub down all the walls in the living room and kitchen (being a smoker makes a mess), clean up the baththroom and kitchen completely, toss out a TON of rubbish, clean blinds, whatever they decide is needed.

Thing Ive wondered: are there any cleaners out there who will take rubbish with them? Thats my big issue. Boxes and recycling and hard rubbish and I have no car and no easy way to turf it all (cant just chuck in street). Tired of being such a pack rat :( Maybe I should hire a skip and just throw out half the contents of my flat and set fire to it.

Good way to get yr security deposit back, I hear.

True, though in my case I am very sure I never will, my cat has destroyed the carpet and blinds :(

i just hired this agency. they're apparently one of citysearch's "best of" for the city and they use environmentally friendly supplies.

a brazilian woman named vera comes to our place every other week, though once a month would probably be fine. it's a little weird, but it's pretty good money for her and we are orders of magnitude neater and cleaner than the friends who recommended her (who have a two-year-old).

it's interesting how she rearranges my shit.

tipsy mothra OTM, after reading that book I could not in good conscience ever hire Merry Maids or any such equivalent again. (We used them for a while when we lived in Virginia, they came in once a week.)

Now that I own a house I kind of like cleaning it anyway.

I would love to do this every other week or once a month. Perhaps in the next year I'll find the money to do so. I see nothing wrong with it. I'm horrible at cleaning and paying someone to do things that are torture for me (bathroom cleaning, mopping) sounds awesome.

Thing I've wondered: are there any cleaners out there who will take rubbish with them?

I know there are here in the U.S., only bcz my psychotic hoarder ex-coworker told me about him having to do that. When he was moving to a different state, he got tired of going through all his shit & packing it, didn't even know what was what, so he called a service. He told them just to throw away everything left in the building; he didn't even want to look through it.

When they were done, they'd carried away over six tons of stuff!

I'm sure you can get this service on a much, much, much, much smaller scale (I'm assuming a renter/self-respecting person could not accumulate multiple tons of objects).

My friend was so insanely proud of his cleaning hardcoreness when he was a Merry Maid. It was all he talked about. I was glad when he started working at a diner.

hoo-rah

I wouldn't have a cleaner.

But I know some people who do. Not all of them are horrible.

But here is a good rule: you have to pay your cleaner at least as much as your own hourly rate in whatever it is that you do. Anything less and you're just... scum.

haha done and done

best name i've ever heard for a cleaning agency: "merry pop-ins"

your own hourly rate in whatever it is that you do. Anything less and you're just... scum.

Sorry, I'm not paying a web developer to clean my house. And if a professional house cleaner has the skills to do my job and earn my pay then they can give their resume instead of cleaning the house.

Do you pay short order cooks and waitresses the same hourly rate as you make? Get off it.

OKAY, AS THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS THREAD WHO HAS ACTUALLY WORKED AS A HOUSECLEANER, I HAVE ONE REQUEST. STOP, RIGHT FUCKING NOW, USING THE WORD "MAID." GOT IT? OKAY.

Neil Young started it.

Lots of women here work as housecleaners,esp. when they have kids. Flexibility, good hourly wage. Ultimately a demoralizing have-not job that you have to get away from.

If your cleaning needs can be taken care of in two one-hour sessions a month, you don't have a dirty home. You can clean it yourself.

One friend of mine quit a job when she overheard the homeowner refer to her as "the maid." Just sayin'.

I still have one cleaning job, along with all my gardening gigs. I'll have it forever.

STOP, RIGHT FUCKING NOW, USING THE WORD "MAID." GOT IT? OKAY.

what if "maid" is in the name of the agency?

as a feminist, i don't like "maid" either, but if you're fine with it being your job title, i won't argue.

HOUSECLEANER.

Ugh.

"the help"

Thank you.

"the girl"

Merry Pop-ins isn't the naked maid service, is it?

Topless Cleaners works in LA. Just sayin'.

"the girl"

"consuelo"

milo no!!! they are just merry, and they pop in.

wouldn't it be consuela rather than -o?

I had a woman come clean once a week when my kids were little and I was working full time, which should have been a wonderful thing except I made myself crazy with "picking up" on the nights before she would come over. I'm possibly more relaxed about it now and would like someone to come clean up the bathrooms. I'd rather clean the kitchen myself though.

-- Jaq, Monday, August 20, 2007 4:39 PM (Monday, August 20, 2007 4:39 PM) Bookmark Link

my parents have had house cleaners on and off for years (it is actually probably more pertinent that they have one now that we are no longer living there bc my parents don't know how to keep a house in order at all! alas, i think they've given it up) and my mom used to yell at us before the cleaner would come that we had to pick up. i always thought this incredibly ridiculous.

also, jody, is housecleaning that cheap that you can afford it on (what i thought to be - correct me if i am wrong) a student loan budget?

single people living in smallish apartments hiring cleaners is CRAZY but i waste my money on lots of stupid shit (BOOZE) so i won't judge you. my mom cleaned houses when i was a youngin' but i would never feel comfortable doing this

$200/month here, paid in cash, including "tip". That works out to about $20/hour in tax-free wages.

Nope, not a bit guilty.

NB: Our housecleaner's San Francisco home (owned) is larger than ours.

also, jody, is housecleaning that cheap that you can afford it on (what i thought to be - correct me if i am wrong) a student loan budget?

this is probably going to be a nonrecurring thing (or pretty infrequent). but i don't have that many expenses right now.

More silly questions from me (cause I have wanted to engage a cleaner for a long time but I dont know this things): do cleaners help "organise" your place? I mean if they come in and you've left clothes all over the place, will they put them away/in the laundry basket/wash them? Will they put away all yr DVDs and books? Will they change the cats litter? Or is this stuff all negotiable?

More to the point is there stuff cleaners WILL NOT do?

I kno that commercial cleaners do alright for themselves these days (in Aus at least) but I kno a few people who have cleaners for their houses and they pay them feckall. Like AU$10 an hour.

As far as I know Trayce, all that stuff is negotiable. Some cleaners may just dust, mop, etc. but I know that others will put stuff away, do laundry, you name it. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a service that would do everything for you.

I'd totally be prepared to pay for it! I must look into this. At least a few one off services. I've had a bit of trouble with ill health and depression and I just need to get back on my feet and feel better about my home.

I find it interesting how many people clean up for the cleaner though! heh.

I do pick up most of my dirty clothes when she comes in. But apart from that, she's more than happy to arrange stuff for me. It all depends on the person, Trayce. I think one of the important things is that you feel comfortable around/with the person (and vice versa). Do you know anyone else who has a cleaning lady who might be willing to *share*? We had a cleaning lady (from a firm) who was ghastly. So we just let her go. Then we asked around and within a week or so we had a new one. She's terrific. I was doing the laundry but she offered to do it (in between cleaning).

The only thing you have to get used to - well, I did anyway - was the fact they do re-arrange stuff (or put stuff back) which, if you're anal like me, can be somewhat difficult. But I realize that this is just a minor gripe.

i'm pretty ambivalent about cleaning, and i'll admit that mrs fiendish does the majority of it in our gaff (simply because i genuinely don't see the "mess" or "dirt" she sees).

A lot of guys have problems with cleaners, yet they don't realize that most of the cleaning is done by their wives. Ask your wife if she loves to have a cleaner. This is what many people tend to forget: most of the time women work fulltime, take care of the kids AND do all the cleaning. If it's a 50/50 situation, then I do think that the husband has as much say in the matter. But if he sits on his arse, then I think the women is entitled to decide if a cleaner comes in or not.

hah, i do 98% of the cleaning in my house and have done so since before the kiddies. i am a neat freak tho

Grimly, I read the first sentence of your post and thought "I bet F does it all in their house". Ho ho. Isn't it more honest to employ somebody, with fair pay and conditions, than to have somebody do it unpaid on top of their already full-time job?

As soon as I can afford it I'm getting a cleaner. It takes me 45 minutes to an hour every day to wash up, make the bed and do a quick, general tidy. It's rare I have the time or energy to clean more than a room a week on top of that. But I see a difference between 'cleaning' and 'cleaning up' which involves tidying and putting away too. I'd rather I put my own dirty laundry in the basket.

My first husband and I used to bring our clothes to the laundry every week to be washed and dried and folded and given back to us. Somehow it seemed okay because the people who did our laundry actually owned the launderette, so I always figured, well, if you hated washing other people's clothes, you wouldn't buy into that business.

The woman who owned the launderette had a sister who lived in Saudi Arabia, and she said she was shocked by what a bitch her sister had become since she moved there. Apparently she prided herself on how good she was to her servants because she didn't beat them.

Our cleaner does 4 hours a week and is superhumanly efficient. She achieves more in those 4 hours than I would have thought possible. She does all the family ironing, thoroughly cleans, dusts and vaccuums the whole house, cleans all the hard floors, cleans the kitchen so that it sparkles, likewise the bathroom. She'll put on a load of washing if there's enough (there usually is). She folds and puts away most of the clothes after ironing. She does most of the stuff that Trayce mentioned, like tidying up books and CDs if they're strewn around. After her visit, we only need to do a bit of light tidying once or twice to keep things under control.

The only drawback is that she gets a bit grumpy if there are people around as she likes to get a clear run of the place - sometimes if I'm working at home I fall foul of this. We also do that thing (well, Mrs. Dr. C does) where you have to tidy up before the cleaner comes.

Grimly, I read the first sentence of your post and thought "I bet F does it all in their house". Ho ho. Isn't it more honest to employ somebody, with fair pay and conditions, than to have somebody do it unpaid on top of their already full-time job?

Absolutely HEAR! HEAR!!! OTM.

I have a small place, so I really should be able to keep it clean by myself, but my god, with a full time job and 2 bands and freelance art/writing, I have noticed it's been 8 months since the bathtub was scrubbed, and lord knows when my sheets were last changed.

I enjoy the zen aspect of doing the laundry, I kind of guard that time to myself, going to the laundrette, even though I really should get my washing machine fixed, that's something I'd never hand over to someone else. But the bathroom and the hoovering and all that... I wish I could afford a cleaner. My mum grew up with maids and a cook, and a butler too. Why shouldn't I have at least a cleaner? I've got a way busier life than she had.

I have been considering paying someone to do my ironing for quite some time now, as it's the one thing I really hate. I just get into a routine of doing everything else, but I just cannot be doing with ironing at all.

x-post I bet you could afford a cleaner. You can get one from an agency for as little as £7 per hour.

Same for ironing services.

A friend of a friend has just set up her own ironing business - once we move I might just give her a call. Seriously, I hate ironing so much, it never ends. Washing up, hoovering, other laundry tasks, cleaning out the bathroom, mopping etc, no bother. Ironing - GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I haf trained my children to do their own ironing.

I have sort of trained my husband, and I just wear clothes that do not need ironed. This doesn't somehow stop the madness - he goes through more tshirts and shirts than any other human being on earth.

I love ironing. Send your stuff down. £10 for 20 items.

Just paint a T-shirst design on his torso in waterproof paint and send him out topless, ailsa.

50p an item seems remarkably good value. I don't mind ironing (I find it strangely therapeutic), but I'd certainly pay 50p a throw to have jeans ironed. I hate doing those.

I think I could be okay with it if I made sure they were getting fair pay etc. But we are both so messy, I think I would die of shame asking someone else to clean all the towering piles of CDs/ books/ clothing.

Iron jeans? Isn't the point of...

No, never mind. What other people consider a domestic necessity is purely subjective.

In my case, I would feel guilty getting a cleaner in because he or she would be cleaning up after my dogs, essentially.

I just wear clothes that do not need ironed.

Amen to this. The beauty of working at home is essentially never having to be well-dressed (and by well-dressed, I mean anything other than sweats). Also the beauty of sending Mister M out to work in HIVE OF NERDS every day means that he can be wearing wrinkled t-shirts and trousers and, simply by virtue of being clean, can be the best-dressed guy in his office.

I have to admit ironing is one of those things I next to never do. I wear stretchy materials that dont need it, and I'll only iron shirts and whatnot if I have to for job interviews or posh workdays/weddings/etc. I'm a lazy fucker.

My mum irons hankies and sheets and shit, what in the fuck.

I do not understand this ironing thing.

Though actually, that said, my Liberty Print shirts need ironing or they look awful when I wear them. But I enjoy ironing them, I get to play about with paisley which is one of my most favouritest things. It's another zen activity. But there is nothing zen about scrubbing the bog.

Yeah, I mean who irons shit! ;-) Ironing hankies isn't that strange, I think. It's a fun thing to do, very easy and I also love the feeling of an ironed hankie. *shrug*

Also the beauty of sending Mister M out to work..

and send him out topless, ailsa

I love the way that men in this thread are sent out. Like being sent to school or something.

I haven't been sent anywhere today. I've been graciously allowed to work from home.

Ironing hankies is at least a short job. Ironing sheets! I suppose, maybe, if you didn't hang them out to dry. Ironing jeans though, that really is crazy.
Now that I'm wearing actual proper shirts to work most days, I may have to start ironing them...

Why on EARTH would you iron a sheet? It's only gonna go on a bed. Who's gonna see it?

OKAY, AS THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS THREAD WHO HAS ACTUALLY WORKED AS A HOUSECLEANER, I HAVE ONE REQUEST. STOP, RIGHT FUCKING NOW, USING THE WORD "MAID." GOT IT? OKAY.

I have worked as a housecleaner. The name of the company (which consisted of the owner, her husband, her 2 daughters, me and a couple of my friends) was "Custom Maid by Sh3||y." Still, I didn't call myself a maid, and not just cuz I'm a dude.

xpost--sometimes I think about ironing my sheets because the top gets all crinkled and it's annoying.

xpost Fresh sheets should be wrinkle-free, for the full fresh-sheets experience. But hanging them out to dry, and then pulling them tight, should be enough.

That's insane! Next you're probably gonna tell me you change yr sheets every day or something. I find lying on them for a week or two gets rid of any crinkles.

No - he's right. Sheets must be ironed for the full fresh sheets experience.

I don't iron them, but I do stretch them tightly straight off the line before folding, which usually suffices.

Hmm, yes, stretching is good enough.

I only use a fitted sheet and my duvet so it don' matter to me. But then again I've rocked up to work in seriously crinkly clothes many a time so don't look to me for any kind of advice =D

Ironing jeans though, that really is crazy.

Depends on the type of jeans, really. I have some Sevens and those are much better when they are ironed (and I weigh 30 kilos less but that's a WHOLE other story).

Eh I'd hire someone, I guess -- but I bet one of my roommates would have serious labor/class issues with it, plus he's always skint so he won't bite. I don't mind nuking the bathroom once a month, it takes 1-2 hrs, but some jobs are so inconvenient that I can't be arsed.

For instance I am only interested in sweeping or vacuuming floors with no furniture on them. I am not, however, interested in moving furniture for 15 minutes first. So you see the problem.

Seriously my ideal bathroom would have all removeable soft furnishings and the rest would be tile or stone and washable with a hose and one of those big broom-like brushes you use to wash cars, and it wd have a drain in the middle of the floor. The teak benches and fluffy towels can be replaced when I'm done spraying down the walls.

You see how it's almost always men who have the "labor/class issues" with cleaning? Argh.

Yeah, I didn't bother specifying, but it's certainly not like HE scrubs the kitchen floor.

You did specify actually...

I bet one of my roommates would have serious labor/class issues with it, plus he's always skint so he won't bite.

Grimly, I read the first sentence of your post and thought "I bet F does it all in their house". Ho ho. Isn't it more honest to employ somebody, with fair pay and conditions, than to have somebody do it unpaid on top of their already full-time job?

more "honest"? i really don't understand what you mean. do you really think i just sit there and wait for F to do everything? do you really think she would let me away with that? :)

i'll admit that she's more likely to initiate a full-on house-cleaning session, simply because she'll say: "god, look at the mess!" and i'll say: "eh? what mess?" i mean, if i'm in the house on my own, i'm not going to break out the hoover if i don't think the hoovering needs done; of course, if i *do* think it needs done, i'll do it. but by that point mrs F will almost certainly have said: "er, can you do the hoovering, grimly?" so it's a moot point.

i'd say the housework split in our house is about 60/40 (mrs F doing the 60, me doing the 40), esp if the shopping etc is taken into account (which i always do). if you want to think -- as a couple of posters seem to be doing -- that this makes me some kind of lazy-ass chauvinist, fine; fuck you :)

xp No no, I mean: it would be different if he was personally willing to do the most menial of chores instead of paying someone to do them, but he doesn't "have time" either. Plus why do people in general think that mopping actually gets a floor CLEAN? Yes, let me just move these food particles and shed hairs around to the edges.

I am the Grimly and Neil is the Mrs F in our relationship. I quite happily do my stint when prodded, but he's the one doing the prodding. And, yes, I do all the shopping, mostly because I do all the cooking.

OK, I'll bite now on the ironing comment. I legitimately suck at ironing, although I'm getting better, so I've been considering dropping some shirts and pants off when I drop my long-overdue dry cleaning off to have them pressed.
(By long-overdue I mean the suit or two I wear to weddings and funerals)

As for the rest of the tasks, they're difficult to get started but great overall. I can do things at work all day and realize it's a small part of a project that'll be done in months, or I can go home and clean the bathroom and stand there feeling a little bit of accomplishment twenty minutes later.

x-post
Generally people sweep and/or vacuum a floor before mopping it. I think it's only those like my kitchen, with a good month worth of spills, that need hand scrubbing.

I love the way that men in this thread are sent out. Like being sent to school or something.

It does feel like that, especially since a) I actually do do all the laundry in the house and therefore feel like I dress him and b) I stay at home while he goes out to work.

We bought a new Dyson recently that is the most technologically advanced cleaning equipment EVAH, and so it is Mister M's job to do the hoovering. I do most of the rest of the housework, but that's okay. He brings in the big spends.

I don't have time to read everything upthread so apologies if this has already been said. But my big problem with the whole morality thing about this discussion is that I think it's an insult to people who do this job to imply that is somehow a lowly, humiliating job. Many people who do work which you might find "lowly" take pride in their work, need the job, etc. If they are compensated fairly, provided with good working conditions and treated with respect there is nothing wrong about most any job.

Taking what Beth said above about this being a demoralizing job I certainly respect her experience. Considering the job did not meet the three requirements above I would also call teaching a demoralizing job. But this was based on my experience and the poor situation I was in. I'm sure many teachers are given all three of the above requirements and quite happy with their jobs.

My grandmother cleaned houses. Many of my friends have done this between other jobs and found it a great and easy way to make money - - do not insult any of them by saying this is fundamentally a humiliating job.

i don't think it's the job itself that's lowly or humiliating. i think it's the attitude of people who treat the "maid" (which is a hateful word, loaded as it is with centuries of class horror) like a second-class citizen that might very quickly begin to hurt. and even if it's just one person, once a week, who treats you like that: it's gonna suck.

Yeah see the other reason I dunno if I could hire a cleaner is: how much do you have to pay to get someone who, while scrubbing the floor on his or her hands and knees, looks up and thinks "Hey, those windowsills look gritty. I think I'll fill up a new bucket of hot water and Murphy's Oil Soap and give the baseboards a going-over while I'm at it."

xp Oh totally. I think I've said before that my great-grandmother would be horrified to learn that any descendent of HERS was too good to wash a floor by hand. On the other hand, kneeling on the floor getting tile-grout marks pressed into your flesh while sweating profusely from having your arms in hot water up to yr biceps is hardly the most dignified of positions -- and I can only imagine one's annoyance at being down there while the homeowner waltzed around arranging flowers. She may be paying you a fair wage for honest work, but COME ON.

I absolutely agree with you, Ms. M, but I don't think there's any real conflict between the idea that cleaning is a perfectly respectable job to have, and feeling guilty about somebody cleaning up after you. I think it's to do with the guilt that some people are made to feel about it by their parents.

I've done my stint as a cleaner, not a house cleaner, but I've worked in hospitals and hotels, and while it is shitty, it's a job, and if I don't want to be pissed off cleaning other people's things when they can't be arsed doing it themselves, then I wouldn't be a cleaner.

I wouldn't feel in the slightest bit guilty about employing a cleaner any more than I would feel guilty about paying any other service provider to provide me a service.

I had to clean up before the cleaning lady from the age of 11-18. She was an older friend of my mother's and did all the floor jobs and washing and dusting that my mother had no time to do when she was launching a data entry company. If you have kids and no time to do the big jobs, you have to pay for extra help, even if you're my mom and therefore fond of Tall Tales of Minnesota Hardship. It was ever thus.

See also a room, central London. The room is covered in newspapers, empty food bowls and some of the crustiest man-socks ever seen, which seem to have given up life after being chased around the room by owner a la the Young Ones. It also contains a man in a bathrobe that goes Great Unwashed for months - unless I wash it. Get up to clean, only to be told: 'oh I was just about to clean' or 'you don't have to do that' when, really, OH NO YOU WEREN'T and OH YES I DO or I will start to scream and throw things.

I imagine I would be at work myself when any cleaners I hired would be cleaning. Also, I wouldn't expect people to do anything I wouldn't do myself - like scrub the floors on your hands and knees. Fuck that. If I don't see the need to do it, I won't ask them. A good mopping, that I don't really have the time to do myself, would suffice.

Do people really hand scrub floors? I've only done this after a grouting or in preparation for sealing. We're talking twice a year at most. Not a regular cleaning routine.

Also, when you hire someone wouldn't you agree on the tasks to be done beforehand (like baseboards, laundry, whatever)?

Suzy, I'm sorry, but *YOU* of all people, are lecturing someone else about sloppy habits? Hello pot, name is kettle. You're looking awfully dark today.

I would feel guilty if the place was a real mess to start with and/or really filthy. But as I said already we sort of whisk around to make it tidy before she comes. If, say, the kitchen had got really grotty through a major spillage or there were masses of dirty dishes around, we'd definitely move heaven and earth to sort it out beforehand so that she could clean normally.

Also

i think it's the attitude of people who treat the "maid"

So be a decent employer! Don't negate an entire profession nor chastise those who use it just become some people are dicks. People are also dicks to waiters/waitresses, bus drivers, etc. Should nobody go to restaurants or use public transport to save these people the horror of being mistreated by assholes? I'm sure they'd appreciate the thoughtfulness causing the loss of their job.

(Grimly, you may not have been implying this, it's just a sentiment I'm feeling in general.)

I can only imagine one's annoyance at being down there while the homeowner waltzed around arranging flowers.

one of the reasons i try to stay away from the apartment while it's being cleaned. the other being to keep myself (and the toddler) out of the way. although the kid is pretty cute about it, he'll follow her around with his toy mop and broom and try to help.

one nice thing about having the nanny do it is that since she's here 5 days a week, she has some investment in the place too (having an inhabitable working environment). she kind of catalogs things that need to be done so when cleaning day comes she's already got her plan of attack. also we pay her more for the cleaning hours than for the child-care hours, which may be a little perverse but it seems like it's asking more for someone to scrub and dust than to take a kid to the park.

My little bouts of being cranky here have absolutely nothing to do with it being a demoralizing job and everything with it being a fundamental job. As in, after food, shelter, and clothing, you have to add "maintenance of all of the above." I'm also saying this as someone who's male, lives alone, and resents the idea I might need other people to maintain my stuff.

For the record, I'm male, and used to sweep the warehouse and clean the restroom at my dad's workplace on the weekend when I was a kid for a few bucks. Cleaning my own bathroom is nothing on cleaning a public restroom.

er, no, i wasn't implying that, but i do understand where you're coming from.

for whatever reason, employing a cleaner is one of these things that touches a nerve for many people (i've had this argument before IRL): i mean, i've no idea quite why i've got such a knee-jerk reaction against it, but i have. i guess it's because -- unlike being driven by a bus driver, or waited on in a cafe or restaurant -- it's way above and beyond what most people do in their day-to-day life ... i mean, i've never been part of a household that's employed a cleaner, so for me it would be unutterably weird. whereas i've always been part of a household that likes to go out and eat.

but the fact i personally wouldn't want to employ a cleaner doesn't negate the entire profession ;)

(that's am xpost to ms misery; sorry.)

What I really want to know is this: what are "pinkberries"?

If I lived by myself I doubt I would want a cleaner. Unless I was going to medical school or something.

But two people, a whole house rather than an apartment and a menagerie of animals make more mess. Add two full-time careers and lives and giving up time for cleaning becomes more of a pain.

But this is just me and I don't really enjoy nor am I good at cleaning.

Yeah I wasn't really jumping on you grimly.

(i've had this argument before IRL)

Me too. The last guy I lived with thought the whole idea abhorrent almost like drowning puppies for fun or something. But he was a self-righteous hypocrite so what are you going to do.

Remember to tip them at x-mas.

What I really want to know is this: what are "pinkberries"?

Some new frozen yoghurt thing they have in LA, apparently.

My parents have a cleaner who comes for two hours a week, and I think she likes working in their house (within reason) because they're never there, they buy whatever cleaning products she asks for, they leave the money every week, and they set a really clear list of tasks for her at the beginning and she just comes and does the same thing every week. Also they're two oldish people who don't generate a lot of mess, really. I think if you're going to clean, that's as much as you can ask for, in addition to your tip at Christmas.

All work is honorable, true. But when your employer's weekend guests toss their suitcases onto the bed just as you swab the last shit-smears off the toilet, well, it's hard to feel the honor.

about the ironing thing: invest in a garment steamer, it is sooo much easier.

But he was a self-righteous hypocrite so what are you going to do

yeh: as i said in my very first post, before madchen started accusing me of being andy fucking capp, i'm very aware there's a degree of self-righteousness about my position, and i'm enormously likely to end up shaming myself as a hypocrite at some point later in life.

pondering this, i think perhaps the problem is that the very small number of people i know IRL who do have cleaners can border on the tittish; it's more a desire to avoid becoming like them than anything else. so the not-wanting-a-cleaner thing is actually nothing to do with cleaners or cleaning; it's actually about what "having a cleaner" can stand for in society today. the very fact the thread title talks about "going all bourgie" sums it up well. but this is by no means a dig at the people on here who employ cleaners -- like i say, it's an abstracted reaction based on a couple of IRL examples.

i think.

Hey guess what, there are shitty bosses in every industry.

WAHT'S THAT YOU SAY? SURELY NOT!

I'm just saying, people who don't hire cleaning help because of the trope that rich people are assholes to their maids or something shouldn't plan on buying any real estate, eating any fast food, shopping at the grocery store, or generally leaving the house ever again.

Well there goes THIS whole thread.

People should really consult me before starting these things.

I said the same thing you did upthread, nick. You should read more.

xpost

'm just saying, people who don't hire cleaning help etc etc

er, yes, we did that one upthread, do try to keep up.

and that's not what i'm saying. i'm suggesting it's about how left-leaning (british, anyway) society has a strange suspicion of people who hire cleaners despite the fact it'll happily hire people to do all sorts of other work around the house/be waited on in restaurants/be driven on buses/etc.

as ms misery and others have pointed out: there's a kind-of double-standard here and it can manifest itself as a patronising (not to mention sexist) "oh, the poor cleaners!" attitude.

You must not have said it right, because people kept talking about this bs.

Nobody likes to read. Just talk.

We bought a new Dyson recently that is the most technologically advanced cleaning equipment EVAH

Crappiest thing ever. We had two. Our cleaning lady complained that it stopped working because of overheating or something. I immediately bought another one for her, a regular one.

I don't count shopping as a chore as I love doing shopping. Same goes for cooking.

xpost: i dunno. this thread's made me think a bit.

as for vacuum cleaners: those german things (sebo, is it?) are a JOY to use and almost make the job fun. we desperately need to replace our clapped-out electrolux and i will be splashing out on one of them because they ROCK.

never used a dyson. mrs fiendish says they're shit; my dad loves his like a second son. go figure.

My dad loves his as well. Only he never cleans. ;-)

can we talk about the simple joys of garment steaming?
http://www.stacksandstacks.com/image/6040.jpg
i am happy like this lady everyday

Garment steaming doesn't give cottons that nice crisp surface, though. Only a v hot iron and Niagara spray starch will do that. :( DILEMMA. No, jk, I only iron when I'm sewing these days.

My least favorite part of sewing.

I hate all vacuums with those plastic cups of crap you are supposed to dump. After having 2 of them, I went back to a canister model with a disposable bag. </rant>

I got one of those wet-floor vac things (I really hate mopping with mop/bucket and our entire house is hardfloors). It totally sucked. Imagine that cup of full of crap and filthy, smelly water.

I need a magical floor cleaning solution, I really do.

xpost

the sebo has a good ol'-fashioned bag. and it sucks like [insert appropriate dubious sexual metaphor of yr choice here].

i used an industrial-sized garment steamer, briefly, when i worked in marks & spencer (this was in the mental fifth-floor warehouse thing on princes street in edinburgh). it fucking ruled. but i was having way too much fun, so they moved me back onto crappy fucking ambient foods, the c***s.

What's an ambient food?

My favorite vacuum cleaner is the Eureka Mighty Mite. It's light (HATE dragging heavy Electrolux canister vacuums around—like having a pig on a leash), plenty powerful and only costs 99 bucks, so when the motor burns out (every couple of years) you just run down to the hardware store and get another one.

I need a magical floor cleaning solution, I really do.

= cleaning lady

Yes this would be the best obv. :/

You know what I would really like but seem unable to find? A two sided bucket. I hate mopping with dirty water and would like to have a clean compartment.

Do these exist?

What's an ambient food?

i wondered that, too. turns out they mean the stuff that isn't in the chiller or freezer cabinets.

"so: the food shelves, then?"

"yes. that's what we said. ambient foods."

"i hate working here. you know that?"

"yes. which is why, when you apply for the same job next year, in desperation, we'll tell you to fuck off and you'll have to go and work in poundstretcher instead."

My feeling is that vacuums get dog hair up and get the dirt out of the crevices in old wood floors but for the truly ground-in city crud only a hand-scrubbing will do. Ditto for kitchens, with their microscopic film of grease and spills and food safety squicks.

Re two-sided bucket: when the water gets dirty, I generally pour it down the toilet and refill the bucket with fresh...? Maybe just prep two buckets at a time and put one halfway across the room?

I have a two-sided bucket! It just appeared one day, like so much other stuff in my home. We're a family of scavengers. It's being used for the dog's outside water now. When he gets tired of drinking out of one side, he can switch to the other.

I'm getting a cleaner in my next flat for sure. I haven't before because I don't even know how to go about it, and feel a bit weird about giving out a set of keys, but when I'm working and studying there's no way I've got time for that shit.

you would if you got out of bed.

and you would have time for a 50/50 split if you weren't in the pub all the time, with your cloth cap and whippets.

HOWEVER: whereas, before this thread, i'd have said: "you lazy bourgeois bastard, get your marigolds on and get scrubbin'", i will now shrug and say, hey, why not?

you've probably got ms misery to thank for that.

THAT SAID: if you've got enough spare cash to go hiring a cleaner TO TIDY UP AFTER YOU AND YOU ALONE, the beers are on you.

Less drinking, more marigolds.

xpost

(because, obviously, i've got the bookies' bill to worry about, and my tabs to buy. and reconstructive surgery from where mrs F has been bashing me about the head with a rolling pin.)

you've probably got ms misery to thank for that.

Well thank you. Convincing people on the internets is not something I excel at. If I ever get a cleaner I'll send her over to yours for a bowl wipe on the house.

now that's an offer i couldn't refuse.

(actually: my own pan-scrubbing skillz are legendary. those bowls GLEAM when i'm done with them.)

I don't think that's the kind of bowl she had in mind.

God, you're all very down on Dysons. I think they're great. Mainly, it must be said, because Mister M will use our one and I don't have to.

nah, i meant pan as in lavvie pan. although you could eat your dinner out of it, aye :)

and that's not what i'm saying. i'm suggesting it's about how left-leaning (british, anyway) society has a strange suspicion of people who hire cleaners despite the fact it'll happily hire people to do all sorts of other work around the house/be waited on in restaurants/be driven on buses/etc.

But hang on, cleaning's not the same at all as working in a restaurant or driving buses, etc. I mean, they might be the same in terms of how people treat the people doing them, but I can't cook a restaurant-standard meal, nor can I drive a bus (nor (practically) walk the distance that a bus might take me). I can clean my own toilet, though.

You can make a breakfast for yourself but it's a treat to go out for it right?

And maybe some people simply can't clean that well and a pro is going to do a much better job.

And maybe some people simply can't clean that well and a pro is going to do a much better job.
So OTM. I've just finished cleaning my flat, and if someone came round they'd be all "ever clean in here?"

But hang on, cleaning's not the same at all as working in a restaurant or driving buses, etc

we're splitting hairs, i think. but okay: i think nothing of hiring a dude with a trimmer to deal with my monstrous hedge. i could do it, and indeed have (and nearly killed myself). i simply don't want to. cf also "simple" DIY, at which i suck so hard it's not even worth trying any more.

(and as for restaurant-standard meals ... hmm. mrs F and i like to eat out, but we're both reasonable cooks -- she being a damn sight more reasonable than i am -- and i'm pretty sure we could do a good approximation of about 75% of the food we've eaten in restaurants around glasgow recently. but that's a whole new issue entirely. i have a friend -- who has a cleaner, incidentally -- who only goes to restaurants that do food he can't cook at home. i think he's crazy.)

so is there *any* rational basis to the no-cleaners thing, then?

I also greatly enjoy eating and drinking out even if it's things I can make myself/have in the fridge. Maybe I'm just lazy and have not very economical.

xpost

You don't really have the desire/see the need to hire them?

I don't really go to the salon. Nothing against hairdressers really.

have not very economical.

Also have not very grammar.

Yeh, but you don't call other people lazy and bourgeoisie for not cutting their own hair. I mean, GF pays people to cut his hedge because he can't be bothered (and frankly, I'm glad of it cos he'd likely be dead otherwise, the cack-handed strimmer gimmer) so what's wrong with someone else paying someone to clean up because they can't be bothered/are too busy?

He said before it was a knee-jerk thing, and I'm wondering why that is.

er, dude, i explained all this earlier when i was trying to work that very thing out myself. do a search for "it's nothing to do with" or something.

read the thread, basically :)

Read it? Gah. I'd rather pay someone £2.50 for a summary.

roffle

Summary: British people have class issues.

(Note: I didn't read this thread either)

xpost to stet:

summary? this is the thread where i have CHANGED MY MIND. sort-of. (i'm still not getting a cleaner, though.) also: you're a big mook. that's £2.50, please.

Yes well you guys might have class issues but we just have race issues.

Our race issues are often disguised class issues, though.

... and our class issues are, increasingly, not-all-that-well-disguised race issues.

i have a friend -- who has a cleaner, incidentally -- who only goes to restaurants that do food he can't cook at home. i think he's crazy.)

Ha! I will usually try to find things on a menu that I can't or won't cook at home. Fortunately I've never tried making my own pizza.

Well, like I said, I think the knee-jerk reaction to cleaners comes from mothers.

My mother was a slob. And broke. We could've done with cleaners really.

By the mother thing I kind of mean such great sayings as "what did your last slave die of?" and "well, how would it be if I only cleaned up after myself?

haha. . .G.'s mother needs a bit of this. His 23-yr-old sister still lives at home and mom bitches about having to wash puke-filled bedsheets. Me: "If she comes home drunk enough to puke in her own bed, let her lie in it." Grr. . .that situation really ticks me off.

xp I do have a loose policy of not buying things I could make and/or sew, reasonably speaking. Esp if such things are made with two side seams and POSSIBLY a hem and priced anywhere over $50.

Ha! I will usually try to find things on a menu that I can't or won't cook at home

i went through a phase of doing this, but stopped when i'd find myself eating pigeon when what i really fancied was a massive bloody steak.

and i maintain that one of the single greatest things i've ever tasted was a small bowl of pasta with cherry tomatoes in venice.

Probably seen elsewhere, but whatevs: http://www.extremeironing.com/

small bowl of pasta with cherry tomatoes in venice.

Is that like bolognese?

You see, I deliberately misinterpreted Venice for humorous effect. I pretended to think it was the name of a sauce.

that's pasta joke.

i have a friend -- who has a cleaner, incidentally -- who only goes to restaurants that do food he can't cook at home. i think he's crazy.)

My parents eat at all the shitty chain restaurants they can find - Chili's, Friday's, El Chico - and I don't get it. I can heat up frozen ingredients, without dealing with a crowd or tipping a server.

Eating out is about more than just eating food.

Yeah, but only if it's an experience. Going someplace with mediocre-to-bad food and service and atmosphere (ie 95% of restaurants) is just a waste of time and money.

Chili's has good fries. Good for work lunches.

Eating out is about more than just eating food.

I dunno. I don't find the furniture all that appetizing, but the staff are often snackable.

1. I will never choose pasta with tomoto sauce from a menue
2. Grimly, I was hoping you might employ me next time you have some flatpack furniture that needs building
3. I hate being 7 hours ahead of the UK and 12 hours ahead of the UK because the fightin is done by the time I wake up :(

Eh? Why aren't you in Scotchland?

OH GAWD the Kate Pot Kettle cliché. I wished I had all day to sit on the internets, stalking everyone else for hypocrisy.

Madchen is working away somewhere glam (Singapore this week, I think) just now.

Oooh very glam. And very clean, apparently.

No, Suzy, you only come here to stalk your ex boyfriends, so clearly you're higher and mightier than I.

Kate, for someone who's supposed to be so concerned with the sanctity of friendship, that was a really bitchy thing to say.

Anna, as someone who taught me *exactly* how "sacred" friendship really is, I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

Oh come on, girls!Don't let me slap you with my broom! Err, I can't, cause I don't know where it is. Hey MAID where the fuck's the broom? (kidding!)

"Eating out is about more than just eating food."

*perv mode on* Of course it's more than just easting food.

Actually, Madchen, you're just in time.

Aside from fact that I can't afford a cleaner on my measly civil service wages, i actually rather enjoy cleaning once i get started.

I've also discovered I'm not the only person on this thread to have worked in the ambient foods section at the Princes St M&S.

I am totally Grimly - I 'don't see' dirt - and even when I do in eg the bathroom surfaces I am not THAT bothered about it! General tidiness is my issue rather than cleanliness but I don't want to pay someone to tidy up around me - tidiness directly impacts on mental state and you know - you gotta take care of your mental state yourself to take care of your tidiness yourself - might not work for everyone but keeping myself in a state I am happy existing in is preferable to feeling worried about someone else IN MY HOUSE.

How dirty do houses REALLY get anyway?

(says the single person who rents and her flatmate probably cleans a fair bit that I am just unaware of - actually not so much cleaning but more putting stuff away after washing up - I am very bad and NEVER do this... well after I have washed up things have to DRY and she always seems to be the first person to need to wash things up again... then again I am also the type of person who will see obstacles in her way of cooking and open a tin of beans and eat STRAIGHT FROM THE TIN w sossidge as spoon aka Alan Partridge wot of it).

(I am fairly terrible about keeping tidy by the way. I think the fact that I do explicity link together living conditions/general mental wellbeing is big reason why I don't want anyone SEEING!)

I've also discovered I'm not the only person on this thread to have worked in the ambient foods section at the Princes St M&S

absolutely shite, wasn't it?

(at least, it was in 1994. i'm guessing nothing changed.)

out of interest ...

anyone else ever used that mould spray stuff to get rid of unsightly black spots on a bathroom ceiling?

anyone ever misjudged the angle a bit on the first spray and, say, showered themselves in a small mist of it?

know if it has a long-term bleaching effect on hair?

fuck-a-doodle. this is why i should never clean. anything.

Yes, i worked there at the arse end of 1992 and had the dubious pleasure of stacking the bread shelf at 7am every monday morning.

x-post

This thread - so many cleaning styles. My 1st husband would only clean things if it would be a complete surprise to the person who would most value the cleaned bits. So he would only clean stuff if no one was home and then do things like polish all the copper bottoms of the pans. None of that day to day pick up after yourself business for him.

When I lived alone, I got very regimented about cleaning stuff. Unhealthily regimented. It took a few years of living with other people (namely Mr. Jaq and 2 of our respective teenagers) for me to give that up. Now, I have to gear up for cleaning, especially bathrooms. It's like my disgust threshold has been detuned several notches. Mr. Jaq is the champion of laundry, especially since he mastered the j-fold. Except for bathroom towels and rugs and kitchen towels and napkins. I wonder why but don't ask; I do those. He wants appreciative acknowledgment of his cleaning efforts, applause or a medal. I think I do too.

The bleached bits will eventually grow out GF, haven't you read all those hair color threads?

you could colour it back in with permanent marker, I hear that's quite good ;-)

hoo hoo hoo etc.

i think it's okay. i spent a while faffing about with two mirrors and all i can see is that worrying thin spot which i'm convinced is going to become a bald spot very soon. maybe it wasn't bleach spray i felt; maybe it was just the chill wind of old age whistling around my bonce.

From now on, whenever anyone addresses grimly fiendish as GF, I am going to pretend they are calling him "girlfriend."

damn!

-----------right of reply-----------

No, Suzy, you only come here to stalk your ex boyfriends, so clearly you're higher and mightier than I.

Kate, you are a bully. You just pretend to be victimized ALL THE TIME and attack people with absurdity and nonsense and petulance and violence knowing that for whatever reason - mostly because they're decent, rational people - they will not fight back.

Thanks for defending me in my absence from the kind of thing Kate would never dare say to my face, Anna - especially because you didn't need the jealous abuse either. If this is the kind of utter bullshit she has only now just managed to say on the board, I am given to wonder just exactly how much poison she is capable of spewing out on this matter privately, to people I genuinely care about, purely to advance herself. Because her behaviour isn't doing anyone else any good AT ALL.

----------resume normal thread, sorry-----------------

Mould spray on its own wouldn't bleach your hair, worry not.

No, certainly not! BLEACH per se does not even do this, all it does is burn the skin.

it can also erase memories from yr eyeballs, if poured in

I thought I'd missed it! I have been out on the gin and I saw some Koi and they nibbled my knuckles. And I saw *three* bits of chewing gum trodden into the pavement. And a bus with the Everton team advertising beer on the side. Singapore is very clean indeed. I am greasy in this Asian atmosphere. And I've been on the gin.

Grimly, don't spend money on the spray - a dab of bleach or diluted bleach on the sponge does just as well. (It works on the orange stuff in a bathroom too.)

Ewww, the orange stuff....

xpost Ah. Have you not heard of that wonderful product, Brain Brillo? I use that a LOT at the moment.

anyone ever misjudged the angle a bit on the first spray and, say, showered themselves in a small mist of it?
Dear god man, how do you manage to write without stabbing yourself in the eye with the pencil?

wow, this thread heated up pretty quickly! i must say, my own issues re hiring a cleaner isn't so much about labor/class (i have tons of empathy for service-industry people, but to me just about any job short of running a child prostitution ring or being michael vick is perfectly respectable). my issues are more tied in with my own philosophies about one's "messes" being something another person should clean up, no matter how well they're being paid. you can also apply that to things like oil spills, emissions, stormwater runoff, even just random litterers and people who let their dogs shit all over the sidewalk.

ahem. the cleaners are over right now -- i went out to get coffee and leave them be. i'll tip well.

these aren't really "my" messes though; the last tenant didn't do a particularly thorough job cleaning the place before she left, and the building manager didn't respond to my request to clean up before i moved in. i've been meaning to do it myself, but i've been busy.

Grimly, don't spend money on the spray

... bit late now ;)

still. it's done a fantastic job.

a dab of bleach or diluted bleach on the sponge does just as well. (It works on the orange stuff in a bathroom too

what is this orange stuff of which you speak?

Yeah, Jody, I think we have different issues in that area, cos your concerns don't totally resonate for me. But I hear you anyway! Enjoy the beautiful beautiful results.

Ha ha Suzy very OTM upthread re. style of bullying :)

Wish there was a different thread to revive, but there you go.

Due to some recent crazy circumstances i'm going to need a cleaner for at least the next couple of months. Does anyone in the London area have any recomendations? Also how much should hiring someone cost?

OH MY GOD I HAD MY LANDLADIES' HOUSECLEANER DO MY APT OVER THANKSGIVING AND I DON'T THINK I CAN LIVE HERE ANYMORE

WTF WTF ALL MY STUFF IS NOT ON THE FLOOR

WHERE IT IS

THAT'S NOT AN APARTMENT IT'S A SPACE STATION

/londonthread

Thinking of setting this up for my brother- he keeps a slovenly house, his daughter stays three or four days a week,I've got concerns.

Anyone have any experience of doing this for a third party, is tehre any way for it not to come across patrician nb he's my younger brother so it wouldn't be a deal breaker to come across bossyboots