Hopefully Liverpool won't win the European Cup aka UEFA Champions League (+ the other one) 2007/08

Group A
LIVERPOOL
Porto
Marseille
Besiktas

Group B
CHELSEA
Valencia
Schalke 04
Rosenborg

Group C
REAL MADRID
Werder Bremen
Lazio
Olympiakos

Group D
AC MILAN
Benfica
Celtic
Shakhtar Donetsk

Group E
BARCELONA
Lyon
Stuttgart
Rangers

Group F
MANCHESTER UNITED
Roma
Sporting Lisbon
Dynamo Kiev

Group G
INTER MILAN
PSV Eindhoven
CSKA Moscow
Fenerbahce

Group H
ARSENAL
Sevilla/AEK Athens
Steau Bucharest
Slavia Prague

Haha, the BBC website guy has left his microphone on - he is asking a Glaswegian about Celtic's group: "How did they get on against Benfica last year?" "Humped them three-nil, then lost three-nil"

Manchester United definitely with the hardest group there. Well, apart from the Scottish clubs.

AC Milan. Again.
Benfica. Again.
Shakhtar Donetsk. Again.

Wanted Real Madrid.

I don't think Chelsea's group looks too easy. Arsenal should breeze through.

Barca to beat Milan in final

Real to beat Valencia in final! SO THERE.

That's my fully-not-going-to-happen-somewhat-random-but-lol-if-it-does prediction

if we had finished fourth i could use this thread to say jol out. but i wouldn't want to.

aaaggh paradox, where's that primer thread.

You can use this thread for that if you really want to: "+ the other one" meant the UEFA Cup, but I was in a hurry to write the thread title and was suddenly gripped by a fear that maybe they had renamed/rebranded the tournament as something like 'The Coca-Cola Ultimate UEFA Champions of Champions Vase'.

Yay!. Jol out.

wellwhaddyaknow...

lol at eggman jose

That may have been the worst LFC performance I've seen in the last five years. Thank goodness Porto choked.

Letting in six at home against the Arsenal reserves last season wasn't great.

Well, that was a lot of Liverpool reserves too.

A lot of Liverpool reserves: Dudek Hyypia Alonso Gerrard Garcia Carragher Fowler Bellamy

The defence had Peltier and Paletta in it! It was also, you know, the Carling Cup.

The Carling Cup - is that a competition Liverpool (seven times winners) don't take that seriously, then?

I was just about to say, it's somehow passed me by, but Everton seem to be playing *FC Metalist* tonight... Is that DJ Martian's Ukrainian darkwave team or what?

rafa out.

Jol should get a semi-beard like Rafa's

as a f*cking disguise, perhaps.

Also, all this talk of Liverpool, but we seem to have completely overlooked Celtic's triumphant opening to their European campaign!

Business as usual innit. 13 straight away defeats in CL group games :(

Liverpool were shit...on Irish TV they said Rafa will never be able to make a team keep the ball and play attractive football, he just concentrates on negating the opposition too much.

I don't want to believe this and am looking at the 6-0 win over Derby as a sign that they can play attractive exciting football, but last night did certainly feel that way.

But it is very early days I guess. I don't know what to think to be honest.

porto amazingly underrated by british isles commentators, is pretty much the state of affairs there. was a poor performance though.

are you trying to say that Porto might be actually a better team than Derby?

Liverpool hardly ever play well in CL group stage, i thought?

porto are obviously not as good as derby, porto have never been in the premiership. they must've just had a luckygame, is all.

Liverpool were crap, anonymous midfield FTL!!! Porto couldn't capitalise though.

1-1 good result given the poor performance.

Porto couldn't capitalise though.

Porto looks capitalised to me.

why ken, why

Well, that all looked like a lot of fun in at the Lane today. Seven goals, Temuri Ketsbaia (My Lord) and Marian Pahars involved, two for Defoe, ball boy chucking a ball at an opposition player's bollocks, and Martin Jol smiling at last. Worst opposition ever, mind.

if defoe doesn't get into the team for bolton ahead of that lazy fat oirish showboater then even you have to agree jol out matt.

unbelievable scenes over at the People's stadium.

If Everton miss two penalties every game this season, I shall be happy.

Embarrassing garbage. Without Arteta we seem to be the sort of team that chiefly relies on Neville hoofing it into the box. Which is better than hoofing it over the bar, I suppose.

I still think we'll go through. They're not Villareal and with some semblance of passing ability restored to the midfield, I think we'll win over there. Oh, who am I kidding? We're out.

How is Tommy G's return to Goodison working out? I saw him putting a ball in for a goal on his nu-debut but I've seen little of Everton since.

He was rated MOTM vs Bolton in some quarters based on his sub's appearance. I'm not even sure he played vs ManYoo. Injured last night (and maybe cup-tied?).

1-1 vs 9-men Mentalists with two missed pens (including re-take for encroachment - I mean, how many times have you seen that rule enforced in your life? Twice, three times, perhaps?). You couldn't make it up. And you wouldn't have to. Cos that's Everton. To be honest, for the few seconds that we appeared to be 2-0 up, I thought it was a bit flattering.

Classic petulant ball boy action here

I saw that live but all my friends were looking the other way so they didn't believe me :(

where's Arteta gone?

Now hapless Everton must play an Aston Villa side still buzzing from having fully two shots on target against Man City

Injured last night (and maybe cup-tied?).

He's not cup-tied unless playing for the Celtic stiffs rules you out of the UEFA Cup.

I like Tommy Gravesen. He had a couple of shockers in Europe but never really got the chance he deserved at Celtic.

Arteta's not gone anywhere, he's just injured. Not sure for how long. Cahill & Vaughan back next month, I hope. Rednoses must be roaring us on to another top-five/six finish so they can enjoy the Eurocomedy the following season.

spurs centre midfield hugely unconvincing against poor opposition last night.... just a complete lack of discipline from zokora, and concentration/effort from thudd. ekotto still an awful awful left back.

malbranque looked excellent again on the left, it really is his best position. why not bale LB and malbranque ahead of him for the rest of the season?

Blackburn was a surprise result, but i still think they'll go through.

arteta and cahill, if they stay fit all season, will take everton to fifth and possibly higher depending.

I dunno, I think the gap between 4th and 5th has got wider if anything this season.

Onimo OTM re Gravesen. Favourite memory will be from the Scottish Cup semi at Hampden, him standing down at the corner flag with one foot on the ball, gesturing any of the St Johnstone players to come and try and take it off him. One did, failed completely as TG stood grinning and waving, so he did it again to similar failure and howls of laughter all round. Class act that we definitely never saw the best of.

I missed most of the English clubs' UEFA adventures as I was watching a surprisingly entertaining encounter between Aberdeen and Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.

I dunno, I think the gap between 4th and 5th has got wider if anything this season.

Depends on Sven and Man City I think. And Chelsea not imploding totally but I can't see that happening.

depends more on blackburn and man united/arsenal.

i'm going to regret saying that out loud.

yeah, we mentioned huddlestone's decline before but another strong indictment of jol is completely ruining malbranque - just cos you got him for cheap didn't mean you had to suddenly treat him that way, like some random squad wanker, and so he's never really recovered.

Arteta's not gone anywhere, he's just injured. Not sure for how long.

i wish premierleague.com will inform me of these things so i can substitute people :(

btw aston villa only had 2 shots fully on target vs chelsea.

I dunno, I think the gap between 4th and 5th has got wider if anything this season.

I definitely think that, and some of the names being tossed around the last few posts in this regard are gonna look a bit silly come May I fear

To be fair, Malbranque has started most games since he came back from injury most of the way through last season, but he's been shunted out wide too often and I'm not sure that's where his strengths are.

He's a frustratingly inconsistent player though - even his last year or so at Fulham wasn't much cop.

Personally I blame Chris Coleman for laughing at his tiny penis. Dude's confidence has never quite recovered, even after the extension.

btw aston villa only had 2 shots fully on target vs chelsea.

Nah that was Chelsea, Villa had about 5

leave steed alone out on the left, he does ok. its blobby keane wasting every pass that comes his way then moanin about the service he gets that bothered me last night.

but when he doesn't score he doesn't get to do that retarded celebration so there's a silver lining for that particular cloud.

nah he scored n all the bollix. can't remember celebration, but defoe getting hoisted on shoulders at corner flag was nice to see.

defoe in, jol out.....!

ok that sucks.

I'm still amazed that one of the more shrewd managers hasn't managed to persuade Defoe to leave. I've got to admit that shot Bent skewed wide at a seemingly impossible angle last week made me roffle and shout "sixteen million!" at the telly, even though I bear no ill-will towards Tottenham or Bent.

i was roffling myself, but in a very bitter, angry way that made my niece cry.

roffling whilst brandishing a chair

the baby chair that my niece was in, unfortunately.

face quite like this...

http://www.fearthegooberzilla.com/pics/crazy_laugh.JPG

Apparently B0ris J0hnson has had his website closed down because of allegations made by a British diplomat about U$m4nov (the bloke trying to buy Arsenal). Details on wikipedia at the moment (but probably not for much longer) - not a good idea to reproduce them here.

yes, i saw them on craig murray's (former ambassador to uzbekistan who resigned and then stood against jack straw at the last election) site before they took it down. shocking...

Prediction for tonight: Man Utd will NOT stick seven past Roma this time.

Even Sralex admits that.

Roma begged for mercy - Ronaldo
Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo claims Roma begged him for mercy during their 7-1 Champions League last-eight, second-leg defeat at Old Trafford.

The Italians return to Manchester on Tuesday for the first time since April's 8-3 aggregate loss.

Ronaldo, who marked a sublime display with two goals, said: "When we were 6-0 up, one of their players said 'don't do any more dribbles', almost begging.

Dude is going to get BROKEN tonight.

or at least pretend to get broken 36 times and get loads of freekicks

Roma begged for mercy - Ronaldo
Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo claims Roma begged him for mercy after giving away 89 freekicks at their Champions League last-eight second-leg defeat at Old Trafford.

The Italians return to Manchester on Tuesday for the first time since April's 8-3 aggregate loss.

Ronaldo, who marked a sublime display with two goals, said: "at the 67th freekick, one of their players said 'don't do any more diving', almost begging.

Dude is going to get BROKEN tonight.

You have to be able to catch him first.

but if they do
http://homepage.mac.com/viktor2/btw/PeteRayGlad.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/60/Onyx_Collyer_Elite_Guard.jpg/180px-Onyx_Collyer_Elite_Guard.jpg

Given the scarcity of goals in games featuring United since that miraculous 4-2 at Everton in April I'm not holding out much hope for entertainment tonight. I think second place in the league is a bit flattering.

Yup. Another one-goal thriller from George Graham's Arsenal United.

Congratulations to Rangers and all their uuurrgghh aaarrggghhhh hoooaaaaccchhh something stuck in my throat.

Valencia 1 up. i'd like to see Chelsea finish third and drop into the UEFA Cup where somewhat ironically Avram could at least point out that he'd got Chelsea further in that tournament than Ranieri.

oh noes, moaning Liverpool fans incoming!

Go Celtic!

lol @ Dida

there's clearly something in the water in Glasgow.

I wonder if Mr. Benitez has considered the possibility of getting his team to score some goals. i feel like that might turn out to be the missing element that could herald a turn in fortunes for them.

lololololol Dida!

bit worried UEFA might punish Celtic for that guy who ran on the pitch - remember what happened with Denmark vs Sweden

Celtic's chances of making the knock out stages are well and truly fucked by that fan. I hope he doesn't live anywhere near Parkhead for his sake.

They could lose points or closed door games.
Wouldn't bet against Milan getting awarded the game 3-0. Despite the fact Dida is a cheating bastard. But technically he was struck so Celtic will get hammered.

^^^this. I think a 3-0 loss is pretty much inevitable.

dida was being a complete fanny. celtic will just get a big fine i reckon.

UEFA never rule against Milan. They didn't even ban them from last years tournament despite them being a bunch of corrupt cheating bastards.

he tapped him on the collarbone. Dida should be banned for cheating. What a cheating cunt!

fuxxake, the traditional cellicfooballclub paranoia has spread right across the UK.

Or at least as far as Hamilton.

(bitter liverpool fan here, Aldo)

oh, and who are you calling an old firm fan here!

FUXXAKE YR A JOCK WHO LIVES IN HAMILTON

i.e. if there's one result I'd expect you to care about tonight it's not Liverpool. YOU EVEN STARTED A BRAND NEW THREAD JUST ABOUT CUNTYBAWS MILANBLOKE FFS.

How bad were Liverpool tonight? Bloody shocking performance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F8348119?thread=4643819

Dida's a shitty keeper, a proven cheat and as far as I can tell, even Milan have no problems with celtic's win.

It's UEFA that counts though. It's no given that it will just be a fine. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were made to play behind closed doors at least.

Hi dere we beat teh champions of Europe. What a result. What a night.

Shame about wee ned dude taking the shine off it - I didn't notice at the time as I was bouncing about like a nutter, I though Dida was hurt trying to make the save. Great feeling lasted about 10 minutes - we're leaving the stadium and all we can hear is people on mobiles talking about Celtic getting kicked out fo Europe.

Hopefully common sense prevails and a fine/wrist slapping for failing to control the crowd.

Fair play to Ancelotti, Seedorf & the Milan board guy (vice chairman or something) for coming out and saying it shouldn't affect the result and they won't protest.

Dida wants to watch that video of himself over and over.

Must've been amazing scenes when the winner went in. When will you sober up? ;)

Jesus Christo Liverpool were woeful tonight. Ban Rafael "Rene" Artois.

Onimo's experience and opinions pretty much reflect mine. We went for a pint afterwards and I've never felt so deflated after such a monumental result. When we beat Spartak/Man Utd/Boavista/whoever, I'm usually bouncing like a maddie for hours - last night...meh, uncertainty. I called my brother from the pub to hear what had happened from someone who'd been watching on the telly, he likened the keeper's reaction to that classic Rivaldo one where he got hit on the leg and went down clutching his face. Having seen it on the telly myself now (my view at the time being blocked by a bouncing Onimo), I'm optimistic that common sense will prevail and we'll get a slap on the wrist and a hefty fine for the crap stewarding that let the twat on in the first place.

I'm also still trying to work out where aldo calls pfunkboy an Old Firm fan (though massive lolz at the biggest paranoid overreaction coming from someone who claims not to care about the Old Firm).

(as an aside, I fucking hate the term "old firm fan" - *no-one* is a fan of the Old Firm. Of one side of the Old Firm, yes, but lumping them all in together as some demographic entity that embodies all that is wrong with Scottish football - fuck off already)

Liverpool were fucking terrible. The worst performance in years.

Oh aye, and in all the brouhaha about the twatty wee ned, I forgot to have a rant about the soft-as-shite penalty we "conceded" for Lee Naylor not allowing Ambrosini to jump for a ball that was about 18ft up in the air above him and sailing out for a goal kick. So consider that ranted about.

If that hadn't gone in, Celtic would have drawn level with the record for the most consecutive clean sheets at home (seven) in the Champions League*. Fun fact: the last player to score against Celtic in the Champions League at Parkhead was Henrik Larsson for Barcelona.

* which would almost make up for the shitty record of not winning a single Champs League game away from home EVER

Chelsea are back!

I thought the Porto performance was the worst in years?

Rafa made me laugh for the first time: what's the best thing about the game? It finished.

Kaboom!

Good OM performance though!

Did you see last night Pete?

I sometimes think we in fact have been getting steadily worse since that long unbeaten run in the 05/06 season. Anyway, there is no way a side capable of playing so badly has any chance of winning anything this season. And there have been a few performances like that this season, if not quite as bad, then Birmingham was in the same ballpark.

I don't think Benitez should be sacked but I'm sure anyone who supports Liverpool and has watched them regularly so far this year must be absolutely sure they have no chance of winning the league (only perhaps 4 good performances so far) and will need to improve hugely even to win a cup.

Also it's not something I've suddenly realised, more like an admission!

What's the problem, Ronan? I saw the Porto game and was really surprised how bad they were. I'd been very impressed by the Chelsea performance and didn't see Porto coming. Since then, you've been nearly as bad as us. (And United haven't been much better, god they were lucky on Tues.)

Some criticism of Gerrard on the radio last night.

'I'd been very impressed by the Chelsea performance'

I mean Liverpool's performance against CFC natch.

Some criticism of Gerrard on the radio last night

But not from Liverpool Supporters Club (BBC Branch) I bet

But not from Liverpool Supporters Club (BBC Branch) I bet

Some scousers on 606. Though Tim Lovejoy kept insisting Stevie was the 'best player in the world'. Ridiculous. We all know it's Jamie Carragher.

Sissoko was woeful last night. Mascherano also gives the ball away a lot. Gerrard just isn't a great central midfielder anymore I don't think. He doesn't hold a position and he isn't on form at all lately.

Alonso injured might be part of the problem, he was good against Sunderland and Derby though you wouldn't say confidently he's the solution either.

I do think Hyypia being in is a major part of the problem too. Not so much for his defending as for his terrible passing and inclination to hoof the ball upfield.

Mind you Carragher has been doing the same. Nobody wanted to pass the ball around last night.

Perhaps there's no midfielder dropping deep or they don't want to pass to Sissoko or Mascherano as they give the ball away so freely.

I think Arsenal or Man United will decimate them.

spurs start brightly. boateng looking very creative so far.

Jol out?

Liv Spurs game all the more intriguing now

damn straight jol out. ilx eleven could beat these guys. jol out forever n stuff. maybe he could run the new privatised royal mail or something.

one nil down, jol out. robinson booked, whether for sh1tness or other not certain just yet.

Would you swap him for Rafa? It would mean Defoe gets the odd start (and also gets dropped for scoring hat tricks)...

would i swap Martin Jol, the nice dutch man, for Rafa Benitez, the trophy winning Spanish football manager?

i just want you to clarify the question, i'm not sure i understand it.

What is the ILX eleven? I for one am pretty confident of holding down a spot.

1-0 down against a team we beat 6-1 last week. Bothered.

Still, nice to know that Kevin-Prince Boateng actually exists.

Sorry, I keep forgetting we are Tottenham and should be beating everyone, top of the Premiership, favourites for the Champions League and playing like Brazil 1970 week in week out.

yeah Spurs can lose this without pressure. even defeat at Liverpool would be tolerable surely. Jol out only if a)they actually have a decent, willing replacement ready after b) failing to beat Wigan at home.

i think man united will decimate liverpool 1-0 when they play.

Liverpool defeat doesn't bode well for tonight, based on the fact that I never really get to gloat for long before Everton do something truly dire and I have to crawl under a blanket in a cottage in the Mendips for a month. So, Liverpool suffering fairly amusing setback (but they could well still qualify - beat Besiktas home & away, and the Marseille return could well become an eliminator) followed by blundering Everton UEFA exit at hands of Khaki Mentalists would seem to be the order of the day.

I'll probably still be trying to get one or both daughters to bed while we're slipping behind on aggregate...

fingers crossed Everton don't get a penalty

Sorry, I keep forgetting we are Tottenham and should be beating everyone, top of the Premiership, favourites for the Champions League and playing like Brazil 1970 week in week out.

-- Matt DC, Thursday, October 4, 2007 4:06 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

oh i forgot, that's all happening, and this is just a one-off bad result. sorry.

maybe you don't think we shoud be beating famagusta 'week in week out' either?

obviously this result doesn't matter tonight. it would have been a good warm up game for the new manager though. which he'd win comfortably.

louis re: ILX XI: keep dreaming!

ILX XI is the one that got pwn3d by sinister FC innit.

actually two subs just combined to score the equaliser against worldbeaters famagusta- jol for ten year deal etc etc.

|:-/

17.33 a famous away result as martin jol's doughty warriors manage to scrape a draw against the mighty famagusta, a result akin to beating everyone, top of the Premiership, favourites for the Champions League and playing like Brazil 1970 week in week out according to many fans.

Aberdeen doing well so far. An away goal and it's nearly halftime.

why does jol continue to hate on the boy taarabt

Aberdeen through on away goals. Crazy week for scottish football.

and yet another great goal by james mcfadden.

who else was screaming HIT IT!

I screamed, "if you don't f***ing score here you tart........"

And only Blackburn crash out. Aberdeen fans will be dreaming of a home game to Bayern I think.

minor shocks: Sampdoria, Ajax, Lens and Zaragoza all dumped out

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44157000/jpg/_44157702_mcfadden203.jpg

Alien directed by Wriggly Scot

so, were Everton any good at all? BBC report makes it sound like they were a bit jammy.

We were jammy. Overwhelming midfield, MetalHammer were zipping the ball about like nobody's business in the first half and could've been two or three up. Missed Lescott's equaliser and Kerrang's 2nd as I was reading The Little Train That Could upstairs at time (missing all the drama involving The Big Club That Weren't), but for a long while, a tie-killing 3-1 looked more likely than 2-2. McFad's gem killed them off though - they tired quickly after that. Not looking good for the record signing when it takes the introduction of a teenager widely regarded as a Dunc-in-his-dotage-style last resort to make things happen up front; funny what a bit of clumsy bustle can do. He did take the 3rd very well though, did Young Vic.

Ajax dumped out = Martin Jol will be their manager by the end of the month.

who else was screaming HIT IT!

I was shouting 'pass!'

FC Mentalist ground reminded me of Stamford Bridge c1988.

I liked the big METALIST-CITY signage, which obviously I mentally inserted an extra "N" into and decided I had to move there.

Glad to see Aberdeen through to the group stages, not least because beating a Ukrainian team does something or other technical to country co-efficients meaning that the Scottish champs could go straight into the group stages next season since Ukraine are currently 10th and Scotland are 11th in the co-efficient ranking thing and we might get to overtake them now. Though maybe Celtic getting spanked off Shaktar ruined it again (though we can maybe turn that round in the home game). We shall see when the next lot of seedings come out.

I think it's possible to overtake Ukraine now that we have 3 teams going for points to their 2. Hopefully Aberdeen get a nice draw in the UEFA and Milan find a bit of form for the Shaktar games.

Portugal are 9th so Celtic beating Benfica would be nice, especially if wee can contrive to get something other than humped away from home for once.

Holland are 8th will struggle with only 2 teams out of 6 left in Europe but I think they're too far ahead of Scotland to come into the equation.

(If you ever want to geek out on coefficient numbers go here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/index.html)

Holland *in* 8th, rather.

FifPro team of the year out today, in 442 format

look on in amazement as an official team of the year neglects to have any players that can play LB/RB RM/LM positions.

Predicitons?

Shevchenko a shoo-in, shorely.

Jol as manager

Robinson in goal.

Kieron Dyer and Ousamane Dabo.

Owen (for most of the first half).

beckham to be on it.

sanderos

Barton deserves a place.

Europe wouldn't be the continent it is without him.

spurs wouldn't be as incontinent as they are without jol.

Yes, it's the occasional win that gives you hope.

I read that as inconsistent. I didn't see what you did there.

ah, either way really.

Ajax dumped out = Martin Jol will be their manager by the end of the month.

this is picking up a bit of steam now.

Ten Cate to Chelsea, Jol to Ajax, Mourinho to Spurs.

In your dreams.

wouldn't have him *sniff*.

I'm more excited by the prospect of Peter Shilton as new Port Vale manager, tbh

Gianliuigi Buffon (Italy and Juventus)
Alessandro Nesta (Italy and Milan)
Fabio Cannavaro (Italy and Real Madrid)
John Terry (England and Chelsea)
Carles Puyol (Spain and Barcelona)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal and Manchester United),
Kaká (Brazil and Milan),
Stevie Gerrard (England and Liverpool)
Lionel Messi (Argentina and Barcelona)
Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast and Chelsea)
Ronaldinho (Brazil and Barcelona).

Interesting all CB back four

At least three of these players had average-poor seasons.

look on in amazement as an official team of the year neglects to have any players that can play LB/RB RM/LM positions.

Daniel Alves pwned.

Gianliuigi Buffon (Italy and Juventus)

Serie B apparently the hardest league in the world.

Also Buffon must have played damn well in the Italian second tier to make that list.

(xpost argh)

actually, out of the goalkeepers they had to pick from, i would have gone for him too.

but yeah, danny alves.

lol, Terry and Gerrard. Droga and Ronaldo-fair enough.

LOL Ronaldinho is what you actually mean.

Buffon is surely a hero/wally for sticking it out at Juve

Less black players in Serie B. Perhaps.

didn't ronaldinho score a hatful though? i know he wasn't the standout player of the year for a change, but he's probably still up there.

i thought Totti won the golden boot last season? he finally did something to live up to his hype and he gets ignored.

kaka player of the year though. not much arguing with that, except maybe for messi.

ronaldinho made the list because he bought the round (and the 25 rounds afterwards) the night before the selection

UEFA Cup draw: bit of a tough one for Bolton.

Group A
AZ Alkmaar
Zenit St Petersburg
EVERTON
Nuremburg
Larissa

Group B
Panathinaikos
Lokomotiv Moscow
Atletico Madrid
Copenhagen
ABERDEEN

Group C
Villarreal
AEK Athens
Fiorentina
Mlada Boleslav
Elfsborg

Group D
Basle
Hamburg
Stade Rennais
Dinamo Zagreb
Brann

Group E
Bayer Leverkusen
Sparta Prague
Spartak Moscow
Toulouse
FC Zurich

Group F
Bayern Munich
BOLTON
Braga
Red Star Belgrade
Aris Thessaloniki

Group G
Anderlecht
TOTTENHAM
Getafe
Hapoel Tel-Aviv
Aalborg

Group H
Bordeaux
Austria Vienna
Galatasaray
Panionios
Helsingsborgs

Aberdeen's group is a bit scary.

Jammy Spurs.

(almost an Ivor Cutler album)

I was expecting Aberdeen to end up with a scary group no matter where they ended up though - pick a group, put them in pot 5, and voila, teh sheepfuxors are, um, fuxored.

has anyone written something along the lines of 'Everton will face a major trial in Nuremburg but David Moyes expects his team to rally round'. unless the match is at Goodison (spoilsports).

Jammy? our lot outgun unlucky tel-aviv.

I'm excited by Everton's group - it's well exotic. Zenit - is that the camera manufacturer? So it's like playing Carl Zeiss Jena - f'ing awesome. Alkmaar have always been my favourite club with a number in (if they still have), Nuremburg I'd prefer to play at home really (I can see loads of Scousers getting banged up for "Ah, eh, lad I was only 'aving a laff" arm gestures) and Larissa is just spicy.

Er, was that previous post by the very man who once promised to run nekkid round the 'pool, of liver? (Or is my memory not quite elephantine after all?)

It was the Boyler who threatened to do that.

I did do it!

O! Well done, misstah!

No you didn't! Did you?

get this thread back on track. jol out.

Pics?

I'm opposed to this thread on principle as my guy supports Liverpool. Where's JJ when you need his comforting heft on a thread like this??

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/mark-roberts/superbowl.jpg

okocha?

xpost

That does actually look a bit like Dave, now you come to mention it.

Boyler run thru a miniature model of Liverpool, in his own gaff

nice package dave

This is great stuff. United look great, Kiev look awful, end-to-end football, somehow only 3-1 at h-t.

They are Tottenham in disguise, aren't they?

Arsenal fucking flying.

That could have finished about 10-5. What a game. I hear Arsenal did alright, too.

Speaking of scoring too early -- poor Hyypia, huh.

:D

O wonder o' wonders, Gerrard scores. Which maketh it 1-2 with, like, six or seven minutes to go.

celtic inevitably succumb IT'S ALL GONE TO SHIT

bugger.png

Liverpool are absolutely terrible. Countdown to Benitez being sacked has begun. End of season most likely but surely nobody has anything to say in their defence now. They're never going to be consistent and they're not going to win the Premiership under Benitez.

jol out

Oh fuck off, I wouldn't say that if I hadn't been watching every game lately. They are as bad as they have been under any manager in the last 10 years.

And I don't think he should be sacked now...just that it's so obvious they're going backwards.

Was at Stamford Bridge last night - Schalke had lots of good players and a decent midfield but they just couldn't get a decent attack going for toffee. Chelsea were pretty much on cruise control, with only Joe Cole looking like he really wanted things to happen. Not much of a game, but good to experience first hand - they have heaters in the West Stand omg!

jol out

-- onimo, 24 October 2007 22:51 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh fuck off, I wouldn't say that if I hadn't been watching every game lately. They are as bad as they have been under any manager in the last 10 years.

-- Ronan, 24 October 2007 22:56 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

I like how this makes you calling for Benitez's head different to me calling for Jol's, for some reason. You assume I haven't been watching Tottenham? I wish.

reina needs to lose some weight

x-post I don't care about why you want Jol out or whether you've been watching Tottenham.

rafa out.

-- darraghmac, 19 September 2007 12:32 (1 month ago) Bookmark Link

it's been done, by the way.

oh- Jol out.

Bring back Gross and Evans.

At some point very soon Liverpool are going to come out of their slump to tump three teams in a row four or five nil, this happens every season. They probably need to give Gerrard a rest though.

Rafa seems to be the opposite of Sven - a great knock-out manager who just isn't very good at churning out results week in week out. Liverpool would win the Premiership under Sven, I'm pretty certain of it.

^^^this. Rafa strikes me as the one Premiership manager who'd fit best in Serie A.

i'm tryin to think of a team that wouldn't look like winning the league under sven.

At some point very soon Liverpool are going to come out of their slump to tump three teams in a row four or five nil, this happens every season. They probably need to give Gerrard a rest though.

didn't really happen last year

Wait wait I know this one

xpost

Sky Sports News, August 30th:

Phil Thompson told Sky Sports News there is nothing in the draw for the group stage of the Champions League likely to upset Liverpool's bid for a sixth title.

'The 2007 runners-up will take on FC Porto, Marseille and Turkish side Besiktas in Group A for a place in the last 16.

'And Thommo, who has winner's medals from 1978 and 1981 from his time at Anfield, believes his old side will have little trouble making the knockout stages.

'"I'm very happy", he told Ed Chamberlin. "You look at Porto coming out of that second pot, then Marseille and Besiktas, and you'd be more-or-less happy. Turkish football is not the strongest anymore.

'"There's a bit of a link with Marseille - a certain Djibril Cisse will be looking at the draw having left Liverpool for there. But I'm more than pleased with the outcome."

'Liverpool were quickly backed down to 10/1 in places following the draw - shrewd business, according to Thommo.

'"I think it's a good punt," he said. "Liverpool were perhaps a bit lucky to win it in Istanbul in 2005, but they should have won it this year - they were better than Milan in the final.

'"That just shows the development of the side under Rafa Benitez."'

passantino out.

Everyone's stopped talking about Chelsea, haven't they? I've got a feeling they could sneak through to the semi-finals without anyone really noticing and then go on to win the thing, finally.

And then finish fifth in the Premiership, arf!

Everyone's stopped talking about Chelsea, haven't they? I've got a feeling they could sneak through to the semi-finals without anyone really noticing and then go on to win the thing, finally.

And then finish fifth in the Premiership, arf!

If it was good enough for Rafa...

everyone's waiting to see on chelsea.

i still like them for the league.

wait a minute- total loss of plot, new beard--

FAKE RAFA

so what we're saying is rafa for england?

rofl beetingus

Heard rumblings over the last few days that a takeover of Liverpool might be on the cards again... something's definitely going on.

Patriots dude innit?

Sven in.

Actually reports are saying he's after a London club.
"It's a wonderful and global game. I love the passion of the football fans here in the United Kingdom.

"People in the United Kingdom and London especially are really avid sports fans."

hurrah leyton orient

proper big club that, chelsea take note.

Phil Thompson told Sky Sports News there is nothing in the draw for the group stage of the Champions League likely to upset Liverpool's bid for a sixth title.

I was genuinely confused reading that. Who calls them 'titles'?

Results 1 - 10 of about 16,900 for "european title" "champions league". (0.15 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 322,000 for "Champions League" "cup winners". (0.11 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 447,000 for "european cup" "champions league". (0.17 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 98,200 for "premier league title". (0.19 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 169,000 for "premiership title". (0.24 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,840,000 for Liverpool league title. (0.50 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 655 for Liverpool "five titles". (0.33 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,340 for Liverpool "five European cups". (0.45 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,790 for Liverpool "18 titles". (0.42 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 15,800 for liverpool "bunch of arse"

you make me want Rangers to win the league.

Jol out, literally. Ramos in at start of next season.

where you hearing this?

Radio 5 live.

From The Times

Martin Jol has agreed severance terms with Tottenham Hotspur and is expected to take charge of his last match for the club against Getafe tonight.

Juande Ramos has agreed to become the new manager at White Hart Lane at the start of next season, although he is coming under heavy pressure to take the reigns sooner.

The match at home to Blackburn Rovers on Sunday is likely to come too early for the Seville manager, however, and Clive Allen is expected to take charge for that match.

Gus Poyet, the former Tottenham and Chelsea midfield player, has been approached to become the assistant manager.

Jol’s position has been untenable since senior Tottenham officials made an embarrassingly public approach for Ramos in August. The club have been pursuing the Spaniard since.

The Dutchman appeared buoyant as he left the tunnel for the dugout before kick-off against Getafe, giving no hint of the drama that was unfolding.

Ramos will be charged with turning around Tottenham’s fortunes - expectations of challenging for a place in the Champions League this season have been crushed by a series of poor results and performances.

PR 101

Why settle for being a national embarrassment when there's a whole world out there

2057: Getafe's Juan Albin and Spurs' Dimitar Berbatov swap shirts. How bizarre.

What does this mean?

you make me want Rangers to win the league.

lol I'm just showing the pointlessness of google wars

Results 1 - 10 of about 416,000 for rangers "beautiful game"

^See?

(weird thing is though - there's only 24,800 hits for "bunch of arse" - meaning two thirds of "bunch of arse"s mention Liverpool)

I'm not reading too much into that. They'll both probably put fresh one's on and just wanted to make sure they had a chance to swap. xpost

Is "swapping" a term I'm not familiar with? Because to my stupid Canadian mind, Berbatov is now running around in a Getafe kit. Do they generally wear a different shirt in each half? If so why is it bizarre? How can anyone tell? Did they do it on the field?

No, no, they'll usually swap shirts at the end of the game as a symbolic gesture. My guess is that they'd pre-planned to swap shirts but they had a hunch one of them wouldn't be around at the end of the game so they swapped at half time. But then if one or either of them comes back out they'll be wearing a fresh strip for their own side.

I don't think I can watch any more of this

just as well

i felt sorry for jol tonight. imagine! kaboul and dawson, with some coaching and a lot of hard work, could be a good league one centre haldf pairing some day.

zokora, on the other hand, will never make anything other than a reasonably quick drugs mule.

Corking goal from Osman tonight. May not be the lead story on the back pages tomorrow.

(Beautiful series of shots just now on ITV4 of isolated stay-behind fans at WHL, staring at the pitch and sadly shaking their heads.)

rafa out

holy fuck i hadn't seen that

wtf@scottish clubs, also.

I always said I was a fan of Rafa's unique brand of free-flowing attacking football.

That was tremendous, even if Besiktas' defending was awful. The build-up passing to that Gerrard goal was beautiful, just a great team goal. And Benayoun had the game of his life.

I bet they don't qualify.

lol that last line was exactly what I was about to say.

Crikey. I switched off at half-time (too much work to do + Besiktas had basically given up already). I said Max should play Crouch more.

Liverpool didn't play particularly well. Besiktas are just shite.

Still, they scored 10-1 against Besiktas over two legs.

having said that I want to see Babel played up front. I mean, isn't he actually a striker?

A copy and paste of an email I sent to my mates, only one of whom also supports Liverpool -

Well that was enjoyable! Arsenal's record usurped already. Yes, Besiktas were very poor but you can only beat what's in front of you and that was an excellent performancem with more verve and attacking intent than we have seen for a while. If only they'd play like that when it wasn't win-or-bust, we might have a serious chance in the Premiership.

Benayoun MOTM of course, excellent all-round performance apart from the 3 goals. And Crouch had a really good game too, he simply has to start when fit. He's 3 times the striker Kuyt is - work ethic isn't enough at the top level. Voronin played well too, though the jury is still out on him and he had a lot of space which he doesn't have against the top teams. Good to see Kewell back and running at people. If he can stay fit for the rest of the season he'll be a real asset.

I just hope they don't revert to type now. We have the players to play high-tempo, attacking football with skill and precision. It's up to Rafa whether he wants to use them that way. And please, for the love of god, keep the same midfield and attack at the weekend, UNLESS Torres is fit.

8-0, 8-0, 8-0. Sounds lovely.

crouch and torres...or torres and babel, or torres and crouch.

must start.

20 euro says crouch dropped if torres is fit...

Match fixing, anyone? Apparently bookies took an insane amount of bets on scores over 4-0 for tonight's game.

It's Grobbelaar all over again.

Ertuğrul Sağlam out

Reminded me a bit of Lpool 7-0 Spurs back in '78 - a bunch of goals going in off Dalglish's backside or goalkeeping errors and then capped off with an absolute gem (McDermott from Heighway's cross, I think). That's a bit harsh, actually - I think it was only 3 gk errors and 2 deflections last night. Porto beating Marseille keeps it interesting - I thought Lpool might go to France in December to play a side who'd already wrapped up the group, but that's unlikely to be the case now.

pool is much more *effective* (aside from being more entertaining) when they take a more gung-ho, attacking approach. rafa's assembled the personnel to build a great, swashbuckling side, so i dunno why he keeps them on the lead the whole time. it's not like chelsea under mourinho, where the approach was negative, but it at least gleaned results.

That Besiktas kit was lovely though.

I was gonna say that, Mike. Their keeper had a mare, he looked on the verge of suicide towards the end.

Also: they at the commentators reckoned last night's game would have improved Babel's confidence.. thoughts? Scoring one off your back and a party-piece backheel? There was the one that hit the bar I suppose.

Also, no mention of how shit Chelsea were last night?

Chelsea played last night?

anyone else think that hutchings really didn't deserve the sack? being relegated with that group of players is in no way a management failure, and i don't think they've been especially bad considering the teams that they've played so far.

does babel need a confidence boost? maybe getting a run of games in the league will help with that.

berbatov to united in january, it seems. if we get 20 million for him at this stage it'll be good business.

Do United need another striker?

You can always spend that cash on the £13 million rated Kenwyne Jones

fcuk off dom i'm sick of you trolling spurs fans. ban.

kiu Dom, boo Spurs

i'm leaving ilx. you rotters don't even deserve a long-winded note. tally-ho!

can we have Jol (local hero 1984–1985) back now?

he seems to think it's a possibility. poor man.

Have you guys seen the horrific challenge on Scott Brown yet? That was a genuine career threatening tackle and I'm amazed he emerged unscathed(apart from having to be taken off). I hope UEFA give Augustin Binya a long ban.

i've heard about it, but not seen yet.

It gets worse everytime I see it.

^^^this

It looked kind of long, like it didn't break his leg straight away so he stood there for a bit longer

that poor keeper. esp the deflection that just looped over his head to nestle under the bar. i thought maybe he would laugh at that point - you almost have to. he did not.

I was looking for the clip of Ian Walker laughing at a dodgy bounce beating him and found this classic o.g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqR_qvC3O2M

ian walker. ian. walker.

you just never let it go onimo, do you?

was there whispers of dodgy betting patterns before that liverpool game? goalie maybe touch of the grobelaars? did i read that on this thread this morning? who knows?

I thought stirring up memories of Walker would make you thankful for the good times you now have with a quality England international between the sticks.

Was it a McManaman shot that bobbled over him? I still can't find a clip.

Scott Brown was evidently wearing better shinguards than they issue in Portugal, since the slightest knock had a couple of them down crying for stretchers and Scott Brown just got up and tried to play on. We were talking in the pub before the match about big girl's blouse players who fall over clutching their leg before getting up again and wondered if anyone who's been kicking a ball around for fun for years has ever suffered such an injury even without the aid of top-quality shinguards. Or is it just something they teach you at time-wasting school?

xpost - classic ball bobble = Stan Collymore v Tim Flowers.

it was mcmanaman, walker at the lane in 1997 i think.

Aye that was another one, same season iirc. I definitely remember Walker laughing at the ridiculousness of the goal and then being criticised for doing so.

xpost I was thinking 1996

that walker o.g. is brilliant

It's a sign of how Battlin' Scott Brown has matured, really.

Best non-international ball bobble in recent years was Peter Enckelman.

xpost to darra - football365 had whispers about heavy betting on >4 goal margin in favour of Liverpool.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/betting/article2824980.ece

"Having bet on the three different scorelines he clearly moved from seventh heaven to feeling just gr-eight."

All spokesmen for betting firms should be shot. There, I said it.

i can't blame walker for laughing, it was actually a fairly human reaction. it wasn't a particularly happy laugh, more like "ah wtf?!"

i'm glad that his win wasn't de-nined

I'm sure he in-ten-ds to enjoy his winnings

e'l-even buy his mates a drink

It dozen really matter, does it?

That's for thertain

Anyone fourteen-is?

(apologies, those were piss poor)

fifteen.

spurs two nil up at half time, keane and berbatov. malbranque created both.

Jol in

were jol installed at half time we would almost certainly lose four two.

The same Jol that won an miracle point from 4-1 down against the Villains?

We're bound to concede at least one, so we need another goal ideally. BBC website is full of people mocking Jermaine Jenas so god knows what he's been up to.

it's two nil against ten men, we'll be fine.

i can do without martin jol's 'miracle points' at home to villa, thanks very much.

Aww, I was amusing myself with the thought of Natcho and Shish on the same pitch.

Incidentally this is the second time in as many games that Ramos has used all three subs early in the second half. Cue goalkeeping injury...

between this thread, the right to be fat and gorillas vs bears it's all about the Jol on ILX today.

(pissteen hundred jokes 'bout jol cannot be wrong lol?)

it's all about the Jol on ILX today

I even saw Rory Bremner doing a (not very good) impersonation of him on his (not very good) TV show!

Is it not all about the Jol *every* day on ILX now?

Just keepin' the dream alive

I was thinking that, most of all, I would miss the Pinefox's flawless Jol impersonation. But then I remembered that the Pinefox doesn't have to be current like Rory Bremner and can continue to do Jol for ever. We still have fun with Gullit. "Could be a Chile match!"

Channel 5 UEFA triple-header today and I'm off work ill but Ava demanded Peppa Pig/Bobinogs double-whammy instead. I might see 30min of Everton after I get them to bed.

the irony of a not very good impression on a not very good show of a not very good football manager.

All this talk of a football manager who's been gone a fortnight, and meanwhile Gary Megson's Bolton hold Bayern Munich to a draw and no one comments?

I was gonna say, maybe just whisper it, but perhaps... Megson may turn out to be a great boss for Bolton?

who ever doubted it?

lol big sam, btw. i hate him so much.

jol for newcastle?

I like Megson, his press conferences have been impressive so far. Still too early to say how he'll be as a boss but I say FAIR PLAY to him.

yeah, i like megson. he's dealt with all the sh1t brilliantly so far, and he seems to have them fighting anyway.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uyQNKTJDVs4

Could be a bit more of this tonight.

steven gerrard. just awful.

he is approaching self-parody in useless, first time 40 yard passes to nowhere.

hyypia, carragher- a lot more to come from these two in the second half, you feel.

well done chaps, and celtic too :)

A drunken Ailsa & Onimo to thread!!

the bbc site says kennedy was carried off with a serious injury. Lets hope its not and he's ok. He doesn't deserve such bad luck again.

Celtic 2-1 Shakhtar Donetsk

Blackburn 0-4 Aston Villa

Redknapp held in football inquiry

What a great set of headlines. Marvin Harewood for top scorer.

Wow Celtic. Amongst all the people going nuts in the crowd shots post-second goal there was a really great guy who was about 4ft tall and looked like the Penfold-esque racist in This Is England.

I noticed Gerrard scored a penalty, did he get any better?

he was....ok, every one of his passes seemed about a yard short tonight if you know what I mean - he never played a ball in front of a man, it was always to the static man - a sure sign that he's not on top form. Torres was brilliant though, he's going to be a proper legend.

How absolutely awful was Marseille's kit?

A drunken Ailsa & Onimo to thread!!

There are limited (i.e. no) opportunities to get drunk inside a stadium, and before- and after-match drinking somewhat curtailed by having work to come from/go to the next morning. But, yeah, it was fun. One day we're going to be bossing a game rather than going for the last-minute heart-attack stuff in Europe, and my pulse will thank them for it.

Dunno what the score is with Kennedy, but considering his sole contribution to the game prior to his injury was to gift Shakhtar a goal, I can't say I'm too bothered, coupled with the fact that he's not going to be the player he should have been before his injury, and that Celtic have about eight squillion centre halves of the same sort of ability to replace him anyway - unfortunately they're all playing out of position due to not actually having a single fit full back, hence why I'm slightly more concerned as to the wellbeing of Lee Naylor.

WGS very smug in interview after that game!

basically giving out about the crowd booing his players.

Let's not get too carried away tho, Shakhtar only have to beat Benfica to go through - thanks to standard issue comical five minutes goal from Brandao (xp)

Oh man, when yr worried about Lee Naylor things must be grim.

Couple of guys in the pub had money on Liverpool 3-1 last night. Hilarity ensued.

We're guaranteed at least the UEFA Cup though, which is OK by me considering our clownish defence and insistence on hoofing it up to the big man even though he's crap at jumping. A wee UEFA run will do our standing no harm, and the UEFA Cup Final in in Manchester, so a bit easier to get to than Moscow </optimism>

oh, and leave my Lee Naylor alone. He's OK. Really, he is.

Great servant to the Wolves, like. Just couldn't tackle to save his life.

Fuck one UEFA Cup, I want second stage of Champions League!

:D

Jol out

:S

GIANT Huddlestone to play in HOLDING ROLE for DUMPED England, when will FRATELLIS curb foreign youth academy intake

"ChimbomBA"

Pleat out

If he says it one more time I'll have to watch Aberdeen or Bolton :(

Ugh, that's one of his old standards. Thankfully Patrick Vieri no longer plays in this country.

"Disappointing week for Scottish football, two Scot teams play and two defeats, are we on the slide again?" Ian, Glasgow via text

lol rangers trolling

Good stuff at the Lane tonight. Ramos has definitely got something, his substitutions are so much bolder and more adventurous (not to mention better timed) than Jol's.

Darren Bent is definitely picking up form, and nice to see Huddlestone come in from the cold. He's a beautiful passer of the ball, I really hope Spurs stick with him and really work on his weight and mobility, because in a few years he could be a colossus.

colossus

there's only one of those in english football, and he left you guys on a free about 6 or 7 years ago

you'll never know how that hurt, L0U1$.

jol out indeed. but ramos has his yellow card. if he ever starts with lee again then i'll be agitating for his replacement.

daniel levy got nothing on me.

never seen you both in the same room

*RUMBLED* :-{

BTW-

paul robinson is no longer fat.

or good

He's got a lot better since he got dropped by England!

^^^
it's like the clock rolled back two years all of a sudden. he's been really solid the last few games, and saved us a point against west ham.

when he came out to claim that high ball late in the game last night it was the moment of the match for me.

Two clean sheets and an assist for Scotty C since Croatia, it's amazing what destroying your country's chances of qualification for a major tournament can do for your club form

Didn't he get hopelessly lost off his line for their 2nd goal?

xpost

i didn't see any reason to blame him for that one- someone has to play right back if yo! pongo lee won't.

gareth bale didn't cover himself in glory, but it was a bit of a clusterf*ck in the box at that stage anyway.

can shakhtar donesk do it

no they can't

well done celtic

lol fixed matches

no lolz for robbie keane's red card appeal failure

;_;

look on the bright side, now Berba, Bent and Defoe might actually score a few

yeah, there's a set of guys that have delivered when the heat is on.

not that our strikers have been the problem- it's just that now they're not overperforming the rest of the team (especially centre midfield) has been found out.

30 million plus on zokora, bent and kaboul. i sure hope that ramos gets to make his own signings.

"he gets away from Dawson but Dawson breaks his neck to get back and put him off"

!

5 out

why must the analyst always be senile, always invent words like "alternatate", and ALWAYS ALWAYS refer to Pascal Chibomba? :(

and yeah, michael dawson was truly a colossus, mr commentator. you appear to be forgetting the lolsome moment roughly halfway through the second period. what rancid defending.

great win for Bolton, they should squeeze thru

Wait John Barnes just said Dawson "broke his neck getting back" too. Is this a common phrase that's somehow passed me by.

Dawson (amongst others) badly at fault for the goal. Did well in the air throughout though, even with a broken neck.

I *think* Dawson expected Jenas to take care of the ball but it was kind of difficult to tell, should have just got rid of it.

Dawson had a weird game really, fantastic for much of the match and then one massive clanger that leads to a goal. He's showing signs of regaining form, and he'll come on in leaps and bounds if we sign an experienced defender and/or King is ever able to play football again.

Fantastic save from Robbo though - I'm happy for him never to play for England again if that's the effect it has on him. Also Berbatov has the best 'can I be bothered?' penalty taking demeanour since, erm, Baggio in 94.

um, dawson was terrible all game, except for maybe three headers. he is our only centre back on the pitch, yet seems to think he should be in midfield, leaving zokora and lee our last ditch defence.

that is not a good last ditch defence.

robinson had a good game though, and malbranque was, yet again, our most committed performer until berbatov came on.

What the hell was happening in Belgrade last night?

I think you missed a fair few Dawson headers. I'd put it at more like six or seven in/around the penalty area. I thought he was mainly very good. Five were way OTT in their praise of Spurs. Kind of hard to say they deserved a win when they basically didn't get a troublesome shot on target the whole game

xpost

but they broke a neck trying!

setanta were far from ott in their praise of spurs.

I think it was less not getting a shot on target and more not being able to pass the ball in midfield without giving it straight to the opposition. Thankfully Anderlecht were just as bad and pretty dirty with it.

yeah, midfield were terrible again. especially jenas. passing was very poor, and bad as anderlecht were, i couldn't but feel relieved when the final whistle went.

when i saw his picture i was wondering if robbo became a swashbuckler to lose weight.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44285000/jpg/_44285389_rob_pa_203.jpg

that's the rod ramos shoved up fatty's arse ten minutes in the door.

"have some backbone, fatty" he was later quoted.

Well, Liverpool are looking pretty set.

Where are there shirt sponsors?

their*

Why the fuck aren't we (in scotland anyway) not getting the Liverpool game as advertised? We've got the fucking meaningless Chelsea game.
What game are you getting in England?

Liverpool on ITV, Chelsea on ITV3

Liverpool. No comedy Pleatisms yet. Oh, he just called Benayoun "Ben'n'oom". That'll do.

No Carlsberg 'cos of some French rules on booze advertising on the tv, innit.

Fucking STV. Why the fuck would they show a meaningless Chelsea game at the last minute? Fucking hell. Especially as it's on ITV3.

STV are cheating bastards!

(If you've got cable you can get ITV Engerland on channel 800-odd)

I think I hate Liverpool more than Chelsea?

I actually got bored of the Liverpool game about midway through the second half, did anything else of interest happen once they realised they'd won comfortably and stopped bothering?

liverpool are almost perfectly unlikeable.

Poll?

How many times can I vote?

Anyway, I thought Chelsea were no longer hated now that a) we aren't as good; b) we're part of Uncle Avi's laugh-a-minute chucklebut express magic show.

And after Ronaldo's pointless and nasty dive v Derby, surely the Mancs are back in the running for 'most unlikeable club' stakes?

So do we poll the big four or the whole premiership?

Or the big four and Newcastle?

i demand that spurs are in there, we have the potential.

"When did you stop thinking Spurs were a "hated" team?"

it's all we got, man. don't take it from us.

Poll the whole Premiership, and put Leeds in there for a laugh.

after Ronaldo's pointless and nasty dive v Derby, surely the Mancs are back in the running for 'most unlikeable club' stakes?

Quite a frustrating move by Ronaldo. He actually does get fouled a hell of a lot and he finally managed to get a bit of recognition of this and sympathy after he picked up a booking for a 'dive' the other week (against Fulham) which wasn't a dive at all. And then he goes and spoils it by conjuring up a 'foul' to win a penalty FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER (coasting to a comfortable victory with only a few minutes left against the worst team in the division).

As for most hated club, I think that's up for grabs this season. No one's really got a clue who's going to win the league (well, you could narrow it down to a certain four clubs pretty easily, but that's about it) and it tends to be the most successful clubs who are most hated (and Leeds, of course).

it's getting harder to hate blackburn, but for a few years there they were a pretty easy choice.

when west ham get their players back they'll have a very hateable first team, but as a club they're not so bad.

chelsea? if you think about it i think they're still the mark for the rest of the premiership, taking into account funding, decision making processes, fans, players and behaviour on the pitch.

at least once a week it's still spurs for me though.

MOST HATED PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM POLL

Quite a frustrating move by Ronaldo. He actually does get fouled a hell of a lot and he finally managed to get a bit of recognition of this and sympathy after he picked up a booking for a 'dive' the other week (against Fulham) which wasn't a dive at all. And then he goes and spoils it by conjuring up a 'foul' to win a penalty FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

I know. I kinda feel sorry for Fergie, who went out of his way to cause a fuss and earn Ronaldo a 'free' penalty for his next tumble, and then the silly kid squanders it against bloody Derby. You sure as hell won't get one at Anfield now (and that's partly our fault).

Drogba has never won us a single dodgy penalty. That's a very poor return for the effort he's put in.

decision making processes

eh?

ah i suppose i meant structure of the club, kinda thing. abramovich's control over the football side, basically.

To answer Gubke's question, French law bans advertising alcohol on TV and at sports matches, so teams with alcohol sponsors have to wear different shirts when playing in France. See how diffreent F1 cars look at the French GP too.

Liverpool will get Barcelona in the 2nd round

Celtic will get Barcelona. We are destined to only play teams we are sick of the sight of.

Yes, Barcelona or Man Utd for Celtic

Real Madrid for you

Real would be nice, I've never seen them in the flesh.

If Rangers get through tonight Scotland will have more teams in the last 16 than France and Germany (and possibly Holland) combined!

I want Arsenal

Celtic could beat Porto

Celtic could beat Arsenal

Arsenal could beat Milan

Portsmouth could beat the 1963 Real Madrid team

Well the 1963 Real Madrid team are all in the 70s by now

Eh? Their 70s!

It's a slower pace of life in Spain

and more psychedelic

Dudes be walkin' round with garottes round their necks... sorry, cravats

Wtf is Smith doing. One up front and playing for a draw at home is negative. It's McLeish stuff. Get Boyd on you ass.

Smith = McLaren.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_4DzLbV79i7g/RuHMbMha9GI/AAAAAAAAEBo/iWaK6k52P8g/s320/Scotsman+Crying.JPG

Wtf is Smith doing. One up front and playing for a draw at home is negative. It's McLeish stuff.

Thought you liked Smith and McLeish? Hated the fact they both left Scotland?

Um, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA is all I have to say. Comedy keeping, missing chances from two yards out, players getting sent off out of frustration, making Jim White look like crying, these are a few of my favourite things. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

laugh a minute report on five live earlier - apparently ultras like to stab you in the arse as it sublimates their homosexual urges causes a lot of bleeding, hurts like fuck & you can't sit down for days.

hohoho those jokers eh?

x-post
Jim White looked like crying when Donati scored against Shaktar.
I did like them for Scotland(esp Smith) but negativity cost us qualifying and so did tonight for Rangers. I hate just 1 up front in home games. 2 scottish teams in the final stages woulda been great. Now Aberdeen will get horsed at home as well.

And yes I hate them for leaving Scotland(and not becoming most hated men in Scotland for it). I'm also fed up with Scottish Glorious Failure.

If only Celtic could win away from home in Europe (and Rangers at home).
And if only Accies didn't blow league games.

At least Liverpool got through.

Celtic seem to be doing OK the last couple of years without winning away from home.

...by which I mean it would be nice if they could do that as well, but there are things that bother me far more.

Sky commentators were on about that Scottish glorious failure pish as well tonight, despite Celtic actually qualifying and Aberdeen still in with a chance despite no signs of gloriousness anywhere in their qualifying campaign. On that note, the UEFA Cup group thingie is pish, isn't it? In that, for example, Aberdeen have drawn 1, lost 2, got ONE whole point and are still in a position to go through if they win their last game. Out of a group of FIVE teams. Four points out of four games can get you through in third place of a group of five.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23428473-details/Manchester+United+player+arrested+on+suspicion+of+rape+at+%C2%A34%2C000+a+head+party/article.do?ito=newsnow&

So who was it? Nani or Anderson shorely. Rooney on good form: "I bet you two were naughty at uni.Did you do threesomes? You know two girls and a lad?"

Does he think 'uni' is like 'Sorority Girls II' or something.

It's defensive stalwart J0hnny Ev4ns who helped them lose to Coventry in the league cup.

They ate a £19.50 Christmas menu of home-cured salmon, roast turkey with apricot and pistachio stuffing and baked white cheesecake.

I think our Xmas party was fancier than that. Well, by about two quid.

"Ms Tetteh"!

haha

Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.Later on there was karaoke and Rooney did a rendition of Mustang Sally.

a "rendition"?

yeah, she's gone missing, along with sol campbell. guantanemo bay authorities refusing to comment. our maddie sighted.

Aberdeen qualify in style while a second string Everton become the first team to beat AZ at home in European competition.

3 "Battles of Britain" coming up tomorrow:

Aberdeen vs Everton
Rangers vs Spurs
Celtic vs Man U/Chelsea

By "tomorrow" I mean in tomorrow's draws.

I'd rather have Aberdeen than Galatasaray. SK Brann, please!

Marvellous stuff really - not that I saw any of it (in late from work, bathed the kids, Ava steadfastly refusing to sleep until 9:40) - but to beat UEFA Cup runners-up 1980-81 (Metgod?) at home with half a team in a dead match is sort of impressive. This really is the best Everton squad for 20 years. On Sunday we'll see how little that actually means when we get schooled at Old Trafford.

You have to say congratulations to all Aberdeen supporters and their sheep.

ARSEALONA, more like.

Not again :-/

Celtalona

Inter for Liverpool. Which is funny, cos I think all Liverpool fans should be interred.

Only jokin', like.

Actually, that was in appalling bad taste! Sorry.

Arse get the other Milan.

Lyon v Man Utd, Liverpool v Inter, Real Madrid v Roma, and the mouthwatering prospect of Schalke v Porto... (xpost - get your old news here first second)

Hmph. Chelsea have done alright.

So we'll have Liverpool and Arsenal fans in Milan at the same time?

no they can't play on the same night

they usually space them out a week apart don't they?

Yes but people tend to travel a couple of days before and a couple of days after games so they'll be in Milan at the same time unless they switch one of the ties, which neither Milan team will want to do.

xpost aye they might move it a week blueski

Aberdeen v Bayern Munich
Bolton v Atletico Madrid
Everton v SK Brann (yay! Watch us go out on pens)
Spurs v Slavia Prague

Panathinaikos v Rangers

Dude on Sky Sports was all excited about Everton getting Brann. "We should be OK" he said. We. I only point this out for Mike, you understand.

How are Panathanaikos these days since they caused major roffles by humping Rangers at Ibrox a couple of years back?

UEFA Cup last 16 draw too:

Anderlecht/Bordeaux v Aberdeen/Bayern
Rangers/Panathinaikos v Werder Bremen/Braga
Bolton/Atletico v Sporting Lisbon/FC Basle...

"We"? Was it Ed "Stewpot" Stewart?

Rosenborg/Fiorentina v Brann/Everton

Bit tastier, that.

Football writer called Gavin Hamilton. I'm not sure if he meant WE as it An English Club or WE as in Everton.

xpost

(google isn't helping me much)

African Nations Cup final is only three days before the first leg, so if Nigeria get that far, we can't really expect Yobo/Anichebe/Yakubu back by then (they'll likely miss both legs of the Carling Cup semi). Anichebe - he's lived all but the first year of his life in Toxteth and Crosby, but fair dos if he wants to play for the Super Eagles.

The only Blue I know of in broadcasting these days (aside from former players) is Gabriel Clarke. His dad was the screenwriter/director Alan Clarke - they're from Birkenhead. Oh, and Gary Imlach, I guess.

Nice draw. United should be too good for Lyons; Milan too old to beat Arsenal and I'd say Liverpool have no chance, but I thought that last year when they got Barcelona.

Milan too old

every year...

HAI GUYZ INZAGHI ISN'T A VERY GOOD FOOTBALLER LOL HE'S OFFSIDE ALL THE TIME oh wait he's just scored

In the final of a recent massive Pro Evo 7 tournament held between me and my friends (a final, it is fair to say, that I just scraped through to with Bolton-esque grit, collecting 10 points from 5 games despite only scoring 3 goals), I found myself 1-0 down in extra time against Lyon with my team Lazio, whom I'd picked as a complex and very witty joke (lol fascism). Sizing up my options, I decided to bring off Rocchi for Simone Inzaghi.

Now I have a friend who is like a sort of alterna-Dom. He's half-Italian, physically imposing (apparently he's absolutely incredible at an obscure Indonesian martial art), likes nothing better than to argue about football and put people down with his sometimes-off, sometimes-red-hot wit. His knowledge of the Italian game is encylopaedic but I wouldn't trust anything he says 100%. Thus did he, spectating, exclaim his derision at this desperate and futile change of mine. "He's shit!" Worse, "I can guarantee you, Simone Inzaghi won't score. He probably won't even touch the ball."

It's a five-minute game, so when I gain a corner kick in second-half injury-time of extra-time, I've probably got about 5 to 10 game seconds of play remaining. Swing it in. A bit too near the keeper. But there's enough power...the keeper misses it...and who else is there at the far post to slide-poke the ball home from about half a yard out?

Of course I win the penalty shoot-out.

This is the value of Inzaghi. Even the shit one. When you need someone to be a goalhanging bastard, Inzaghi.

great story

Michael, Will Hanrahan, TV producer and former host on Sky's The Computer Channel (for whom I did the autocue) is a diehard bluenose.

Is he related to Brian?

Ed "Stewpot" Stewart is performing at the Theatre Royal, Windsor. Sadly, it is quite expensive.

Cant find a Uefa cup thread so I will post my astonishment here
Half-time score Aberdeen 2- Bayern Munich 1

Cant find a Uefa cup thread

You're in it: Champions League (+ the other one) 2007/08

Aluko's having a great game. Seems to have no respect whatsoever for who he's playing against. I fear for the Aberdeen defence in the 2nd half though, given the way their last two domestic fixtures went.

Ridiculous penalty decision considering the exact same kind was denied

earlier for aberdeen

It was a clear penalty.

Though feel free to call someone a cheating bastard :)

poor 'deen. :'(

What a snoozefest last night's Rangers game was. But good to see Walt being as bold as ever: at home against a team of similar quality? One midfielder up front it is!

It was a clear penalty.
so was the one for Aberdeen earlier.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the one that was given was a "ridiculous penalty decision" - given that it was CORRECT.

Call the other one ridiculous by all means.

wtf ref

Clattermore in disguise, innit.

fuck matterazzi, fuck him forever. football karma.

still no way the pool will win this, kuyt playing his normal 'advanced defensive midfielder' role.

refs made it up to inter by denying a stonewall penalty

MOVE THAT BUS!!!!!!

watch us fuck this up proper now.

well well

What a strike!

Hoorah!

goodness, went into this expecting to get battered.

So inevitable.

gerrard elated and cheery as ever for the pmi

I think Rafa's been lulling everyone into a false sense of security with this 'visibly not giving a shit about any other competitions' stuff.

refs made it up to inter by denying a stonewall penalty

How many refs did they have? :-)

Anyway, do you really still believe that "decisions even themselves out over the course of a game/season/lifetime" bollocks? I'm pretty sure Inter would rather have had 11 men for the whole game.

Also, lolz at commentator going on about the referee being a homer and playing up the "materazzi used to play for Everton" line - conspiracy theorist madness much?

Did anyone watch the Chelsea game? I kept flicking over to it then getting bored after approx ten seconds each time, mostly because, well, it was Chelsea.

do you really still believe that "decisions even themselves out over the course of a game/season/lifetime" bollocks

conspiracy theorist madness much

What, you think referees get it equally wrong across all teams and matches? Suggesting that some decisions affect the outcome of games and don't necessarily get redressed is hardly going to send people scurrying for their tinfoil hats is it? I mean, I don't really care for Inter one way or the other, but I'm hardly inclined to think losing 2-0 rather than 3-0 makes up for going a man down after half an hour.

I don't think they favour Liverpool across all matches, and it wasn't an utterly woeful decision either, you grab a players shirt you're taking your chances.

Inter were poor before the sending off anyway. I don't think you can blame being one man down for such a woeful performance which was more about them failing tactically.

When they briefly left their 18 yard line in the second half they troubled Liverpool and broke up Liverpool's attack, why they didn't bother to do this again after that one 5 minute spell of pressure is beyond me.

anyone know of a pub in central-ish London I could watch the Arsenal/Milan game tonight?

I think an 11-man Inter could well have beaten Liverpool last night. Their hand was kind of forced, tactically, in that they basically retreated into two banks of four with Ibrahimovic or Cruz pretty isolated upfront. Liverpool didn't look even close to scoring for 60mins so who's to say what could have happened if they'd been more evenly balanced.

Also, that first Materazzi yellow card wasn't even remotely a booking.

Also don't forget Liverpool only managed to breach that defence after Inter had lost both their first-choice centre backs.

Sorry but a good team wouldn't play that badly with 9 men, let alone 10.

And don't think I'm saying Liverpool were amazing either. But Liverpool not breaching the defence was due to their own deficiency, not Inter's skill.

Man U or Arsenal would have decimated Inter if they turned up and played like that.

Inter just gave up last night didn't they, it's difficult to judge whether they'd have fought harder without the sending off.

I think the issue was that Inter have gone so long without being beaten that after the sending off they thought they could hold onto a 0-0 and then beat Liverpool at the San Siro.

For the record Liverpool deserved to win, were the better team even before the sending off, weren't particularly threatening upfront and had a pretty massive helping hand.

Yeah and that was a major mistake on Inter's part. Anyone who's watched Liverpool of late knows how lacking in confidence they are, particularly at the back. Even with 10 men Inter should have gone after a goal, PARTICULARLY in that spell midway through the second half where they rattled the defence with their very first half chances.

Maybe it's not the Italian way, and maybe they'll come out all guns blazing in the San Siro but it was a pretty pathetic performance.

But ignore me, I'm just sick of people telling me all week how badly Liverpool were going to lose when I felt fairly confident they wouldn't.

Inter to probably win the return leg 3-1, Liverpool to lose Champions' League final on penalties to Chelsea, Rafa replaced by Ian Holloway on account of Hicks' wife finding his BBC column funny.

anyone know of a pub in central-ish London I could watch the Arsenal/Milan game tonight?

It'll be on pretty much everywhere I'd have thought. If you want the Arse to lose, try one of the Italian cafes on Charlotte Street.

Never write off Liverpool in Europe.

I think Chelsea will get diddled by the Greeks, sparing us another CFC-LFC CL bore-off.

I'm glad I really revelled in the Barnsley business (watching the goals three or four times on BBCi, reading all the reports) because there's always a danger Liverpool will let you down when you're expecting them to fail. I thought it was the most obvious 0-0 ever - the late goals were stunning.

I'm not sure whether it's Rafa tactical acumen or the desperation to stave off complete seasonal embarrassment that gets Liverpool through every time. Or perhaps it's just not leaving one of his two best players on the bench.

I expected Liverpool to win, partly because it's Europe, but mostly because Rafa clearly does not give a shit about whether or not Liverpool even finish fourth this year. He's going all out for the Champions League to make sure he's got pride of place in the shop window for next season.

Strangely the only team in the draw I can't see Liverpool beating is Man Utd.

Milan will do Liverpool as well, Liverpool for some reason seem a lot weaker against slow paced teams.

Eamon Dunphy last night made the point that there are only a few teams that can handle the atmosphere at Anfield for European Cup nights, and that it makes Liverpool seem like a force that they aren't.

This is why I'd always be far more wary if we drew United or Arsenal, or to a lesser extent Chelsea (not that I think that'd be anything like a breeze)

Arsenal or United would be like "erm...it's just Liverpool!"

i think even Liverpool could handle the Chelsea of last night. particularly in a Champions League match.

Eamon Dunphy last night made the point that there are only a few teams that can handle the atmosphere at Anfield for European Cup nights

like Benfica and Marseille! but they are just blips.

Chelsea crashing out I can see mainly because I've been waiting (much longer than I expected) for Avram to stop looking pretty much as good as Mourinho on results. or maybe he really will win both cups, lose a CL semi and finish only a couple of points behind the top two.

Benfica is the only time they've lost a knockout tie under Benitez at Anfield.

They've been ropey in the groups several times there though admittedly.

've been waiting (much longer than I expected) for Avram to stop looking pretty much as good as Mourinho on results

I don't think he does look as good as Mourinho on results. He hasn't won against Man Utd or Arsenal yet, and they've only beaten Liverpool in the Carling Cup. Mourinho did.

yeah but he hasn't lost to Middlesbro or Fulham...fair point tho

I don't think he does look as good as Mourinho on results

He certainly doesn't look as good as Mourinho on looks.

well his wife might disagree (then again)

Pretty sure Grant is the ugliest Premiership manager.

Grant doesn't have a clue against good sides or when things are going wrong. Still no reason to send him racist death threats though. Scum. (incidentally, this is the piece I ended up writing about anti-semitism - dig the skull cap.)

(BTW, is it unclassy to link to your own stuff?)

http://www.timeout.com/london/sport/features/4221/FootballracismXXX.html

Pretty sure Grant is the ugliest Premiership manager.

Frank Clark

Polling this in five minutes.

Please do.

Pleat and Alan Ball also in with a shout

Was Cloughy's last year the first Premiership season or the last First Division one?

Fat Sam shorely.

Clough retired 1993

FFS: it's obviously Dowie

I think we may be in for a repeat of this tonight.

Ronan, I don't think it is about Anfield (at least no more than any other home ground, where most decent teams expect to win their matches). Last year, their key result was at the Nou Camp and they lost that one at home.

Good piece here. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,2249358,00.html

Key quote:'There is no evidence that home advantage is much affected, if at all, by the size, intensity or commitment of the fans. Instead, home advantage is remarkably consistent within individual sports across different locations and different crowds.'

Liverpool's home record in knockout European ties under Benitez:

P12 W8 D0 L4

Lost 4?? Barca last season, Benfica in 2006...what are the other two?

Ah...the two qualifiers in 04 and 05. Carry on.

So Inter had more reason to be intimidated by Anfield than Barnsley, right?

Lost both legs of Benfica game, Chelsea away last year.

Gah, I'm an idiot. Home games.

So Inter had more reason to be intimidated by Anfield than Barnsley, right?

maybe Inter should have watched some prem games like Barnsley probably did. or just read the papers. they gave Liverpool way too much respect.

Sorry I forgot Barca last year...still a great record.

That's a great article.

i'd put a tenner on Juventus to win the Champions League next season, just because.

You'll be the first hauled in for investigation if there's a dodgy penalty decision in the final...

The record for division 3 this year is that home teams are winning only 44% of matches.

i just wish we could play the cream of europe every week. i wonder if there ever was a european super league would a benitez led liverpool be up there challenging or undone by woeful inconsistency like in the prem. ie. is it the cup format or the european opposition that suits?

i suspect a bit of both with slightly more the latter.

Ok Messi, the game's done. Can we have our ball back now?

i wonder if there ever was a european super league would a benitez led liverpool be up there challenging or undone by woeful inconsistency like in the prem. ie. is it the cup format or the european opposition that suits?

-- or something, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 18:14 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

It's worth comparing Liverpool to the other over-achieving in Europe/under-achieving in the league team of the past five years, AC Milan.

What do the teams have in common?

a) Weight of history behind them
b) Conviction that they're the biggest team in the country
c) Statistics show they're not

Probably not any of these

d) Heavily interfering chairman

Maybe

e) Despite this, bizzarely long-standing managers for such underperforming teams

Cause or symptom?

f) Team just isn't strong enough

^ this

Although in Milan's case it's because the average age of a player in their team is 37, and in Liverpool's it's because they basically don't have the skill in depth. You can turn it on 100% maybe four or five teams a season, and if all of those games are Champions League knockout bouts...

I'm not that disappointed Celtic lost - I mean, whaddaya expect against a team that can take off Ronaldinho and replace him with Samuel Eto'o, while our ace card is bringing on Samaras and Donati? Biggest disappointment was that fucking cunt Henry scoring, I hate that fucking smug bastard.

b) Conviction that they're the biggest team in the country
c) Statistics show they're not .

can you clarify what you mean by "biggest" cos i always struggle with the concept re football teams; richest? most supporters (actually AT stadium or worldwide?)? most successful? or some other signifier? i don't think too many liverpool fans consider the club to be the richest or most supported but if successful is the signifier then liverpool are just about still clinging on to that one.
i do take your point about the players outside of the first team being not good enough (as well as a few IN the first team), what we wouldn't give for a messi or a kaka or a ronaldo. i think benitez could send out a team to beat anyone on their day and he's kind of proved that now but when it comes to breaking down a team intent on defending the creativity and ESPECIALLY the finishing (which i think gets overlooked - we don't half miss some chances) aren't quite there.

When, if ever, did you stop thinking Tottenham were one of The Big Clubs?

You might find a teeny bit of discussion on what makes a 'big' club on this thread. Just a little, mind.

come sunday we'll want that thread renamed!

or not.

yup, you're right. wot with Leicester and Middlesbrough both achieving "big club" status after winning it.

except that Spurs won't win it.

lol http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44441000/jpg/_44441997_lampard_terry_getty203.jpg

Thursday, 06 March 2008
Anderlecht v Bayern Munich, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Bayer Leverkusen v Hamburg, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Bolton v Sporting, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Fiorentina v Everton, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Getafe v Benfica, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Marseille v Zenit St Petersburg, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Rangers v Werder Bremen, Last 16, L1, 19:00
Tottenham v PSV, Last 16, L1, 19:00

what a great set of fixtures!! fuck a champions league.

That is actually quite exciting.

Every single one of those could conceivably go either way except Anderlecht vs Bayern which will be a predictable tonking.

um, not to be pessimistic but i can't see us beating PSV over two legs either.

I couldn't see Bolton beating Atletico Madrid over two legs either.

The problem is that by the time the UEFA gets interested, everybody has forgotten it's taking place.

I think we might be in a for a bit of a shock vs Fiorentina. No jolly day out, stick Big Vic on to put the wind up them for the last 20min, bang them in for fun from outside the box. The notion that this has all been a European learning experience for Everton and we're just getting better and better is undermined by the fact that we haven't played anyone particularly good.

i'd been pleased enough with our performances lately, but last night was not good.

Aye Cuddlestein's passing was poor and defence had a Jol Fragility about it.

I think we might be in a for a bit of a shock vs Fiorentina. No jolly day out, stick Big Vic on to put the wind up them for the last 20min, bang them in for fun from outside the box. The notion that this has all been a European learning experience for Everton and we're just getting better and better is undermined by the fact that we haven't played anyone particularly good.

-- Michael Jones, Friday, 22 February 2008 12:31 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

You'll probably beat Fiorentina. Their line-up is very "challenging for the UEFA" Premiership team style, lots of the "lost children" of the past decade of football: Sebastian Frey, Fabio Liverani, Mutu, Montelivio.

Cuddlestein Mountain played pretty well in the first half but I think everyone sat back a bit after the break thinking they'd coast through and save energy from Sunday, and as soon as Slavia Prague scored they were all 'WTF do we do now oh shit it's a ball quick pass it in the first direction that comes into my head'. Otherwise known as England under Sven.

or tottenham under jol, which is what i kept flashing back to in the second half.

thought- zokora messes up the balance of the team something rotten.

tottenham-under-jol sounds like some quaint little town in the midlands

Yeah I blame Zokora as well. After almost two seasons now, people still don't seem to know what he's *for*. He is a defensive destroyer? Is he a box-to-box-midfielder? Is he supposed to go forward and run at teams? Is he supposed to play the holding role and calmly protect the back four?

He can't really do any of them particularly well and it worries me he's still ahead of Tainio and maybe Huddlestone in the midfield pecking order, when at least they know what their job is.

i thought they would keep clubs from same country apart until the quarter finals but no

xpost- i don't think zokora will be in the lineup for the final.

he's got all the attributes to be our 'makalele' player, except for the discipline/mentality just to sit there and cover. also, his running is dreadful- quick, but usually just in a straight line until he's tackled.

i think we'll see hudd/jenas for the final. maybe tainio for hudd, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Italian football RIP.

Heaven needed a bunch of Argentinians lying about where their grandmother was born.

There was some quality rolling-about-like-girls from the Milan players last night, I think they did it deliberately to annoy Wenger after his 'we are not going to kick them' posturing this week. Shame they were rubbish, mind. Pato Banton looks exciting though.

Also, one hell of a ding-dong between Seville and Fenerbahce last night. Wish I'd watched that instead frankly.

Aye, that looked brilliant, didn't it? Only saw after the 90 minutes having been watching Celtic attempt to thwart Barcelona by playing all their midfielders out of position and their top scorer on the bench.

Strachan out

Job swap with Ancelotti

Pato Banton? what next - Pino Palladino?

good percipience from DC re. Zokora, upthread, pre-League Cup Final.

Mike, so you expect to *beat* Fiorentina?

Maybe we should call them 'Florence'.

There was some quality rolling-about-like-girls from the Milan players last night

do girls roll about?

until they're old enough to dive like women, yeah

I don't really expect to beat Fiorentina, especially now we're not on the Lucky Channel (UEFA from this point appears to be ITV1/ITV4 rather than five). Unless we can parachute in Elton Welsby from the other thread his Hoylake retirement cottage, we'll struggle.

is five not just the lucky channel because the games they show all involve English teams playing FC Stirksvarmer Apozutz and that

Man, you don't wanna talk shit about FC Stirksvarmer Apozutz, they crushed Miffy 1916 2-0 at the weekend. Finland hasn't seen football like they play since the glory days of Litmanen and Faenenananen at Club Bivutz Sport.

Elton - great to see you the other night. Annabel had a smashing evening too - we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. Holylake is charming! We loved what you'd done to the patio, and Annabel wanted to copy the work you'd done with the trellis at the end of the garden ... not to mention Maxine's recipe for lasagne! Funny to talk about these new lads (and lasses!!) on the TV - Colin Murrayfield, Gabri Logan, Matthew Smith - I was reflecting on that again, while walking around our local shopping mall this morning and waiting for Annabel to finish in the garden centre - they (the presenters, I mean, not the gardeners!) have the enthusiasm but not the professionalism, I think, of our generation.

Listen to me talk - like an old codger! Anyway, Elton, keep in touch - all best. bye-bye.

the last four European Champions have exited the CL in the second round the following season.

Olympiakos look rubbish, how on earth did they get this far? Commentator just now: "They finished top of their group with Real Madrid on 11 points, but maybe a bridge too far, quite literally, tonight."

....ah! I get it now. As you were.

hotting up at the Bernabeu - i think Roma will hang on

wow they got a winner. they're bound to get Schalke in the QFs now.

whoops Schalke aren't actually thru - extra time in Porto now

hooray schalke! mate said "fiver on whoever you chose for pennos", i chose schalke as you never back against the german's in a shoot-out (no. 3 in football ten commandments). result 4-1!

Schalking it up to experience

exactly. pity i'm so made up over an extra fiver eh? still, as i said to my mate, it's not about the money it's about backing your judgement.

so, is tonight the night for Bent to start paying back some of that weekly £90k?

ah stop. even a good win can be ruined by dwelling on the wrong aspects.

Loads of PSV in covent garden.

I wished them well.

Got a bad feeling about this.

lol keeper vs Rangers. Shocker there from the Werder Bremen "stopper".

Gilberto out.

Juande knows

Zdravko Kuzmanovic has scored for Fiorentina against Everton, although that's easy for me to say.

That's the end of that, then.

Only saw the last 25min (which has been about the average this season for the UEFA ties, such is the long drawn-out routine of getting the kids to bed) and we were fairly poor. Then I switched over and was slightly surprised by the fact that Spurs were equally bad.

We Never Looked Like Scoring.

I still feel that it will help you in the next leg if you think of them as "Florence".

Probably also help if you think of them as "Team whose star player is a fat fuck 35-year-old Australian whose left every single club he's ever played for with the fans requesting he doesn't let the door hit him on the arse"

mark viduka plays for fiorentina now?

No disrespect, but I'm gonna go with "Florence".

i'd quite like to see taraabt start instead of lennon for a few games.

i think ramos is getting a clearer picture of the unit he's working with now.

Vieri's CV is amazing. 14 clubs in 19 years, with six of those years being at Inter. Is there anyone of a similar stature who can come even close to comparing to such glorious journeymanism?

Gazzetta Dello Sport reporting that if Mourinho goes for Barca, then Inter will make Benitez their next manager.

lol sport in general

3 English clubs out tonight OR WHAT?

I expect Everton to raise false hope with an early goal; we concede an equaliser just before the break and spend the 2nd half lumping it up the middle to no great effect. Oh, there'll be an injury too. Cahill or Pienaar (if he's even fit after Sunday).

Mancini for Liverpool. Or Chelsea.

alex ferguson would have you believe that barnsley are the best team in the world, if i've read him correctly.