Women: would you be in a relationship with someone who revealed that he had sex with a prostitute?

I have done that.

I'm of both minds, a bit.

1. Someone having paid for sex before our relationship is no more my business than whomever he dated before our relationship is. It's history. Or at least it better be.

2. It's a little..."meh", eh? Yeah, it's irrational, but I find it a little squicky.

He was in the army at the time. Of course it was one of many red flags I should have paid attention to.

The other being "he was in the army" presumably.

Watch it.

no, absolutely not

Hmm, I think it would depend on the circumstances. In general though, I would think this act shows a lack of regard for safety, women, and his own self-integrity. While I wouldn't find him "unclean" (assuming he did have a clear bill of health) I would be concerned that the poor personal qualities which led him to a hooker could seep into our relationship.

.. or out of it, right?

poor personal qualities which led him to a hooker
Bingo.

As opposed to those stellar (and more parsimonious) qualities which led him to a slut?

doesnt kenan's girlfriend post to ilx?

At least a slut involves some sort of communication and attempt to connect with another human beyond exchanging cash. Also real mean just learn to use their hand instead of using other people.

I might think differently if prostitution were legal and legit. But as it is most women are forced into it by addiction or other bad situations. Men who employ them are truly taking advantage of them.

Ethan, shut the fuck up.

Ethan, go be a fucking old lady somewhere else, god, you're like a bitter mother-in-law in perpetuity.

http://goddamn.lardpirates.com/archive/pictures/umad.gif

And you're an asshole. At least after I eat my delicious lunch I'll be in a good mood again.

As opposed to those stellar (and more parsimonious) qualities which led him to a slut?
You mean ME?

"Men who employ them are truly taking advantage of them."

I disagree, but this topic was bandied about ad nauseum on another thread. There's some advantage being taken by the prostitute as well in a lot of these situations.

Someone having paid for sex before our relationship is no more my business than whomever he dated before our relationship is. It's history. Or at least it better be.

seems a bit unrealistic to thing *everything that happened in someone's life* is somehow moot now you're in it?

I used to live downstairs from a prostitute in Paris (where it is legal) who had a very regular clientele of mostly middle-aged men. The arrangement seemed more respectful and mutually beneficial than some sordid one-night stands.

You mean ME?

Of course not Beth. I would never refer to you as a slut without appending the words feral-haired!

xpost

So you would rather pay a desperate, crack-addled woman for a blowjob rather than downloading some porn and taking care of yourself.

Yes Michael what you're describing is pretty different than what happens in the states.

ahh yes the undesperate non-crack-addled women of internet porn

That's a different argument and while I don't deny that porn isn't a problematic industry I'd much rather date a man who watched porn than one who used illegal prostitutes.

I suppose there are degrees of 'doing this', i.e paying a fair bit fr sex w/ someone attractive, as opposed to cheap sex etc...

If only Paul Brickman had made a sequel to Risky Business in which Tom Cruise's character and chums all fail to be attracted to or indeed attract girls at college after it's revealed they all spent their trust funds on super attractive call girls the previous Summer.

Uh, well, unless there are issues borne out in everyday behavior, obv, everything that happened in someone's life before me IS moot. First of all, it's done and over and not undo-able, and second it's none of my business any more than criticizing (or being jealous of) MY choices is HIS business. I mean, you can disapprove if you want, but it won't gain you anything.

the desperate crack-addled women of the world thank you

xxp

gah not dating men who watched pr0n would realllly narrow the dating pool, wouldn't it

xxxpost

What if they had murdered someone or had previously liked to visit Thailand for child sex? I mean I think I would at least like to know about this. Along with any other felony convictions.

bell labs OTM

I'd have thought it was more unattractive to be in a relationship w/ someone who'd slept around loads. as opposed to slept w/ a pro (we're talking once, I guess, right?)

But then, I'm not a w.

men who want to visit thailand for child sex should just download some child porn and take care of themselves at home

What are the chances, do you think, that you're going to end up in a relationship, all unknowing, with a pedophile? I mean, really. Out of the overall population. It seems a little hysterical to make that some kind of standard.

it's kind of part of someone's character and shit? i dunno, i'm not saying you can pre-judge necessarily, but maybe decisions people have made will tell you things about them. or is that crazy?

haha!

xxpost

Hi, the middle ground is calling, you're missing your coffee date right now.

Obv. it's an extreme example valid. People in relationships should be open with each other. If the other person is judgemental or unable to accept you past and all, they are not someone you should be in a relationship.

And there are lots of people out there who abuse and exploit others (sexually and otherwise). I think the chances of the average single adult encountering them is not unlikely. Or hysterical to think so.

"but valid" rather and "should not" duh.

It's a little nuts to think that, at the point of intimacy at which a person is likely to DIVULGE this info in the first place, you wouldn't have formed any stronger impression of yr partner's character and values than could be destroyed by one past indiscretion.

On the other hand, if the guy says over dinner on yr first date that he's partial to working girls and hopes you don't mind, then you're right, probably not a good bet.

I know you're always ready to call me nuts Laurel so we should just agree to disagree on this matter.

I know you're always ready to call me nuts Laurel so we should just agree to disagree on this matter.

-- Ms Misery, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:57 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

leprechaunonthephone.gif

I rather like the idea of a prostitute in theory, but a combination of squeamishness and sentimentality precludes me from ever going there. I'm the kind of guy who would end up just talking for my allotted time, making us both feel even worse about the whole thing.

Ms Misery, in most major cities, even in the States, there are expensive 'escorts' or what have you who are not all crack-addled.

I think the fact that I'm 51 yrs old and the only woman thus far who has copped to consorting with a protitute-user is not just coincidental. We got together in 1981, before anything was known about AIDS. There was a lot of sexual-outlaw behavior going on. Since then people have learned the hard way to be more cautious.

OK ladies:
a) for 1-10 times slept with a prostitute in a place where it is legal (Amsterdam, Vegas)
vs.
b) for 1-10 times slept with someone who worked for him (let's say he's a manager)
vs.
c) for 1-10 times slept with his close friend's girlfriend/wife

I think my feeling is coming from the fac that some people I love have very checkered pasts, and their partners know about that and have accepted/married/loved them anyway. I would be v angry with someone who couldn't see that the past was past and wd be willing to throw away yr possib future together.

xpost

travisbickle.jpg

xxpost

Beth, I think it's a better guess that you're the only who knows for sure. Of all my exes I can only think of one who might have done this but he had so many other bad qualities this one would just get lost in the wash

That looks like some weird SAT word problem upthread.

I'm the kind of guy who would end up just talking for my allotted time, making us both feel even worse about the whole thing.

i've heard that this happens quite often though, with prostitutes and with strippers, that some men actually do just want to talk! esp if they are older

it happens a lot in coming-of-age films.

lost in the wash
Which circles back to gray water.

:)

yeah, prob doesn't happen too often with street prostitutes either...
xpost

What about men who would refuse to be in a relationship with a woman once she revealed she used to be a prostitute?

I probably wouldn't deal with that too well.

What if they had murdered someone or had previously liked to visit Thailand for child sex?

This is different because both of these tendencies (pedophilia and 'the killswitch') are linked to real mental illnesses. Wanting to have sex with someone is normal, though, and if someone pays for it, that's not necessarily indicative of any mental illness, just a different learned definition of right vs wrong (and I'm not passing judgment on which is which). This can be 'changed,' theoretically; the other two cannot. So I think it's an unfair comparison.

Haha Eazy, it's like "would you rather be stabbed in the foot, the eye or the stomach?"

Like Laurel said upthread, Steve, I would feel awfully shallow if the mere fact of her having been a prostitute were a deal-breaker on its own.

That said, the thing that makes it all even more unerotic and depressing to me, is that both the johns and the pros have a good chance of being in the position to pay or charge for sex due to some most likely quite large personal problems/issues. I feel bad criticizing either of them, but I don't want to join their ranks.

It's not necessarily shallowness, rather an overestimation of the importance of the man's own pride, perhaps. I can only think of examples I saw in TV shows tho ha.

I dare say more men would be paying for sex more often if there was more chance of verification it was going to be clean, friendly and the woman had a degree of control to the extent where the man could feel he'd just picked her up in a bar anyway were it not for the fact that money was going to be involved. What Michael described in Paris surely also found in Berlin, Prague and similar cities too but seems too much of a minefield for many to be sure of what they're getting into.

and the woman had a degree

this too

Being a prostitute is often part of a general downward spiral. I don't think it's a part of most well-adjusted women's pasts. Of course there are exceptions.

Not that ILX guys always go for "well-adjusted" gals.

"....is that both the johns and the pros have a good chance of being in the position to pay or charge for sex due to some most likely quite large personal problems/issues"

Not necessarily true in all cases. In my case, I was in Amsterdam, and "when in Rome" (in all ways you can be in that fair town), you know? No big deal. Who gives a shit. Plus it was 17 years ago. It's not really relevant to who I am now.

I had a good friend who, after a bad break-up, and without the money to go home to California for X-mas, went to Amsterdam, smoked copious amounts of weed and availed himself of a prostitute. It didn't turn out to be everything he had hoped, but he had a relatively good time and while I could never do that, I didn't think any less of him for it. It was better than having him stay in Paris, moping and generally making everybody miserable.

peoplw who lost their virginity to a prostitute

james joyce
al goldstein
mussolini
tolstoy
thomas wolfe
jfk
david cross
napoleon
jerry lewis
david berkowitz
jean-jacques rousseau
h.g. wells

I would totally not want to be in a relationship with any of those people, I have to say.

Women: would you be in a relationship with Mussolini?

JFK, too.

xxxxpost

In my initial post I said "It depends on the circumstances". Obv. the non-US scenarios you are describing Micheal are very different from most experiences in the US/Mexico (which is where most of my past/present dating materials hails from. I've never dated a European-traveling guy)

I say no to David Berkowitz. Maybe to JFK.

JFK seems like the kind of guy that would cry after sex. I gotta say no.

I'm not sure its necessarily any different in Europe, Sam.

and what is that off the top of your head or is there a poster up somewhere with that on it?

(I mean, there is actual statistical proof that Europeans who sleep with prostitutes are more likely to join up with Hitler and try and take over the world.)

The things Michael is describing (namely, legal) are different to me.

Heh, I googled to see if the JFK trivia came from Seymour Hersh's book -- it cam from one of those Kennedy bios -- and in doing so the first google match says that Oliver Stone lost his virginity to a prostitute.

I dunno, if the prostitute in question is a desparate drug addict does the legal status of prostitution make much difference, morally speaking?

it used to be "the norm" for enlgish public schoolboys to lose their (hetero) virginity to a lady of the night. ethan's list is not exhaustive. but times change.

This is different because both of these tendencies (pedophilia and 'the killswitch') are linked to real mental illnesses. Wanting to have sex with someone is normal, though, and if someone pays for it, that's not necessarily indicative of any mental illness, just a different learned definition of right vs wrong (and I'm not passing judgment on which is which). This can be 'changed,' theoretically; the other two cannot. So I think it's an unfair comparison.

-- Will M., Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:06 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this asks way more questions than it answers.

I still boggle at virginity being something to lose.

in england right now they are talking about they want to make paying for sex illegal. most english prostitutes are brought over from e europe and the deal is they have to pay back their immigration costs plus interest at a vigorous rate and no it isn't their "choice" to be in it.

if i'm reading this thread right (maybe i'm not) there is some strange, fact-free categorization going on here:

'crazy damaged druggy desperate street whore' vs 'classy self-aware petit-capitalist pricey hotel hooker who's also hot'

i'm a little suspicious of this

xp it's not illegal to pay for sex in the uk?!

This thread has totally gotten off-track. Why are there more men now posting? boring.

All right, lads, let's adjourn to the club and let the ladies continue their discussion.

well it's interesting innit? i wouldn't expect to be able to say i'd been with a pro (if true) and get another minute with any woman in 2007.

Yeah, go smoke up the drawing room. xp

It seemed to me the boring conversation (by males) was keeping away many of the women who were posting at the beginning of the thread. Or perhaps I was just missing the insightful commentaries inbetween lists of famous johns.

good luck ladies

give us hell, Ms M!

I just want more entertainment for my slacking dollar.

I don't know about boring; I think That one guy has been pretty otm in various threads about prostitution.

also, back to Ethan's list...maybe not a coincidence that Tolstoy had the best-documented virgin-whore complex of all time?

men are ruining your humanitarian plea for men to not actually pay desperate crack-addled women when they use them to bust a nut

xp it's not illegal to pay for sex in the uk?!

It's illegal to pay for sex, but not to be a prostitute (I think I've got that right - if I haven't somebody'll say I'm sure).

I just want more entertainment for my slacking dollar.

Is this a prostitute joke?

xp to gff, well, it's all relative, innit? Is contracting w/ a prostitute a small number of times better or worse than sleeping with, say, seven people in one day for no pay at all because you hate yourself and want to be ruined/X-ed out? That was someone I know who's now happily married, and who deserves to move on. I think we all deserve that.

i wouldn't expect to be able to say i'd been with a pro (if true) and get another minute with any woman in 2007.

is this plan thru verizon or t-mobile?

men are ruining your humanitarian plea for men to not actually pay desperate crack-addled women when they use them to bust a nut

This thread is about men that we would be in a relationship with. I don't think anyone gives a shit what you do, Ethan.

good luck

It's illegal to pay for sex, but not to be a prostitute (I think I've got that right - if I haven't somebody'll say I'm sure).

-- Madchen, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:55 PM (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

naw in england, says wiki, it's illegal

-for a prostitute to loiter or conduct solicitation in a street or public place
-for a potential client to solicit persistently, or solicit from a motor vehicle ("kerb crawling").
-to own or run a brothel
-to pimp

paying for sex is legal, as is being a call-girl or hotel-based prostitute etc.

Are you talking to me RJG? I have a very good relationship with a guy who is just as disgusted as I am by what we're discussing. I am very lucky.

I once had a bf who had an on-again off-again thing with a prostitute. They had actually had a casual relationship over the years without money exchanged. He met her at a birthday party. His 90-year-old friend had decided to shock everyone by having a prostitute accompany him to his own party. My old bf and she got talking.... She apparently used to come over to his houseboat and surprise him in the middle of the night. He said it was when she needed some cuddling. He was not judgmental; she craved a nice, loving man. I found this to be a positive story that increased my respect for the guy. I have always been very safe about STDs, and insisted on clean test results, so that wasn't an issue.
xpost (this was in the netherlands, where prostitution is legal)

xxpost

this must be why Snoop was banned.

Actually, boyfriend preceding prostitute-user WAS a prostitute. Worked out of gay strip clubs, 1979-81. He's healthy, amazingly. Like I said, sexual-outlaw days. Plus it was the recession. Jobs were super-scarce.

I forgot all about that! Huh.

i live a pretty boring, vanilla life, it looks like.

Beth, G. and I were just talking the other night about what life must've been like for people our age before AIDS. It's really hard to fathom a world of sex without this cloud of death hanging over you.

Yeah, in the fifteen minutes in between the cloud of pregnancy clearing and the cloud of AIDS rolling in. Jeezum.

I got tired of the sluttiness even before AIDS. I picked a guy who'd just come out of the army because I thought it would be a corrective to the scene I'd just been in. WRONG.

Ah gots a real nice husband now.

A related question, this one for the ladies: would you get outraged if you found out your guy looks at porn? (completely hypothetically)
I just figure almost everybody in the world looks at porn sometimes, so sho cares? But I know this is a dealbreaker for many.

who

I don't care about that.

I have been known to look at porn, myself. For about thirty seconds it's arousing, if you can block out the faces and the reality and the memories of actual people in the industry that you've known.

probably not, with the prostitution
about porn, i dont really care!

I have a friend who canceled her internet connection because her husband was surreptitiously looking at porn. I asked her why they didn't just look at it together—incorporate it into their sexual thang.

I think if you assume your guy doesn't look at porn that just means he has his computer locked or you haven't found his hiding place yet.

There should be porn glasnost in the marriage. Sneakiness is bad.

It casts the wife in a mommy role. She doesn't want or need that.

It also assumes that she has no nasties in her sex-brain.

it can add to the thrill tho

uh...maybe..i dunno

I jokingly put a little note that said "stop watching porno" in the bedroom dvd player's tray and then a few days later I found it in my nightstand, on top of my vibrator.

People watch porn on DVD?

i believe that has happened

The bed's comfy. And he better not use my fucking laptop.

Oops, my 23-year old just came over for lunch. I better get offa here!

Is the DVD a commercially released movie, or just stuff he's downloaded? I guess it's just hard for me to imagine people playing for porn these days.

downloaded and burned. Nobody pays for anything anymore.

playing for porn these days.

you mean like poker?

OK, that makes more sense. I was imagining he like called up and ordered a Girls Gone Wild or something.

The fucking laptop only comes out on special occasions right?

multiple xposts

Interesting choice of verb, Jarlrmai.

xxxpost it's for the usb vibrator.

The last movie DVD I bought was Pirates (silly high budget pr0n). As to the initial question, sure - that's not a deal-breaker for me.

I choseth not the verb.

omg comes is a verb, i am so evian.

girls gone wild is porn now?

oh, man. my favorite ex-boyfriend told me very early on in our relationship that he saw prostitutes a lot in his past (although I highly doubted the past bit). i really thought nothing of it at the time and still don't. he was smart and funny and cute and inadvertantly saved me from getting cancer(!) so i hate to think of throwing that year away because of something so trival.

Old-fashioned pornographic novels had a lot to recommend them. If you are of the political mindset to consider porn actors "victims," well then, problem solved.
Certain set-pieces of De Sade remain some of the most effective porn I have encountered.

How did he inadvertently save you from getting cancer? Distracting you from a HPV carrier?

And there's also the collection of Victorian erotica called "The Pearl." Fabulous. Nasty and silly.

The softer side of cock-blocking! xp

girls gone wild is porn now?

Ha, this occurred to me after I posted, but I figure it still kind of is. I mean, even if the flashing-at-Mardi-Gras parts don't count as porn, there are the parts where they go back to the hotel room. Plus, some of the special series. The ickiness of the GGW phenomenon (sleazy entrepreneur who coerces girls to appear on camera) notwithstanding, a lot of the time I'd rather just watch people happily take their clothes off than engage in explicit but soulless intercourse.

Just because it's for-hire doesn't mean it HAS to be soul-less, I guess? There's pron by, for instance, Annie Sprinkle's production company in which all parties are equally involved/enjoying b/c that is the whole point, for them. Which seems cool.

I dunno where you get it besides sex-positive stores like Toyland etc but y'know it's out there.

You can direct DIY disapproval everywhere. Why should you pay someone to cook for you in a restaurant. Shouldn't you cook for yourself? Shouldn't they be home cooking for their loved ones? And massage therapists! Lordy. All work is prostution.

prostitution.

Alienated labor is prostitution, comrades.

Just because it's for-hire doesn't mean it HAS to be soul-less, I guess?

That's true. My statement was as much about the difference between soft- and hardcore than about amateur vs. paid, though. Watching two people just methodically fuck doesn't usually turn me on as much as what led them to that place.

In answer to the question...no fucking WAY. Because paying for 'classy' sex or a stag-night lapdance is really not going to help reduce the trade in trafficked women and only serves to legitimize something utterly barbaric. However highly sexed a man might be, his conscience should probably come into play here.

The adverb is problematic. I've seen plenty of steamy porn where it looked anything but methodical.

xpost

Alright, how about this one -

If you had a friend, and I do - several, actually, who fit this description - that had spent some time with a street prostitute in the past, how comfortable would you be introducing them to a friend/relative of yours in a "Hey, you should meet this guy" kind of way?

B/c I have actually struggled with this numerous times.

If he's fit to be my friend then I introduce him. If I don't feel that comfortable, I wonder whether he should be my friend. If I feel my friends are hypocritical, bigoted, or sanctimonious and that's hurting other friends, I find a way to tell them.

I admire your forthrightness and honesty. It would probably not be easy, but very rewarding, to be your friend.

apparently prostitution is legal in rhode island, or so i hear. noize dudes, can u confirm?

Yeah, all else aside I am not, for example, totally cool with a grown man who is perfectly aware of the ramifications of the fuckedupness of the prostitution system in the U.S. CONTINUING to patronize prostitutes or, even in safe & legal circumstances, considering purchased sex a substitute for relationship sex (altho let's not even have the conversation about whether picking someone up by plying them with drinks/your prestige/a three-carat diamond is a transaction) -- or for instance I'd prob be worried if he was totally comfortable with and un-chagrinned about past exploits from the point of view of adulthood. And Michael OTM, that person will prob end up a casual acquaintance.

All sexual relationships, and all friendships for that matter, are transactions, usually two-way. It's a matter of degree.

Yes, exactly -- not worth unpicking in this context, I suspect.

Everybody has their faults. Would you introduce someone who had dealt cocaine? Someone convicted of battery? Somone convicted of a DUI related negligent homicide?

If you are upfront about it, repentant and have comes to terms with it you will find me very forgiving.

I would totally not want to be in a relationship with any of these people, I have to say.

-- horseshoe, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:28 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Hasn't come up yet, but who knows. xp

Michael, I have some things to tell you. . .

In a small community you hobnob with all manner of murderer and embezzler and batterer and pornographer. Not that they're your closest buddy, but you know everything about everyone.

Mine could use a little work.

Wait, that's a response to what I just said on the ILX heaven thread! It was bound to happen. All the threads have gone all slutty.

suzy otm.

You can direct DIY disapproval everywhere. Why should you pay someone to cook for you in a restaurant. Shouldn't you cook for yourself? Shouldn't they be home cooking for their loved ones? And massage therapists! Lordy. All work is prostitution.

-- Beth Parker, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:07 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

no, it is different. not just because it's sex (though call me a misplaced sentimentalist or whatever but... that too) but because the terms of trade are very different. maybe a hypothetical could be drawn up where women aren't kept in the trade via above-mentioned trafficking 'debts', drug addiction, or old-fashioned violence, but in england anyway it would remain hypothetical.

Dammit beth, that's what I meant to post to the other thread. I wondered what happened to it.

I want to make this perfectly clear...

I thought the cop was a prostitute.

Delirium is setting in.

I got yer back, Beth. Speaking as a Victorian-era prude (who, admittedly, lives across the street from a creepy Egyptian brothel) I think y'all're super-judgemental about this.

would you be in a relationship w. somebody who had USED DRUGS?
would you be in a relationship w. somebody who had LUSTED INAPPROPRIATELY?
would you be in a relationship w. somebody who had CONSIDERED NIHILISM?

... Lysol Douche

People are being forced into horrible work all over the planet. Coal mining, daycare, Verizon DSL tech support.

A related question, this one for the ladies: would you get outraged if you found out your guy looks at porn?

No, I wouldn't. How could I as I am very much pro-porn. That said, I don't watch it so much, in a way I'm more pro porn in *theory* than in practice. I enjoy it from time to time, but I actually prefer to read about it (both smutty bios and intellectual theorizing).

What concerns prostitution, *shrug* as long as he played it very safe (as I would want with all his sexual experiences), I don't think one should just sweepingly categorize the man as a saddo. He wanted sex, didn't need any emotional baggage nor any chitchat or dating, so he opted to "bang" a prostitute... What's wrong with that, really? I don't think there's much wrong with it, really. Except of course if the woman has ended up in prostitution due to human trafficking. I mean, hypothetically I don't have a problem with the transaction, just that the woman ended up in prostitution because of someone forcing her into the trade.

Hmm.

doesnt kenan's girlfriend post to ilx?

-- and what, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:37 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Oh wow! That is the most awesome thing that has ever been posted on ILX. You are a class act all the way, good friend.

Jesus fucking christ.

xpost
ok, would you be with a guy who paid a prostitute an extra hundred dollars an hour to pretend that she had been forced into the trade?

if so, im pretty sure you can email me...

There is nothing left in the hollow shell of a man once called "Ethan" but snark now.

Jesus fucking christ.

Didn't he bang a whore?

ok, would you be with a guy who paid a prostitute an extra hundred dollars an hour to pretend that she had been forced into the trade?

God no. Y'know at the end of the day I think I'm far more conservative than I like to believe. I can theoretically understand/accept it, but I don't know how I would react if I found out if a partner went with a prostitute.

Now, now...Mary Magdalene just hung out with the wrong crowd. Jesus was the boyfriend that rescued her from that.

Paul, of course, was always giving him shit about this.

Messiah Save-a-Ho

Jesus was no one's boyfriend.

He was a god-friend.

Jesus wants to be inside you.

Jesus is the only polygamist sanctioned by the Catholic Church.

Dogmatically, at least, nuns are married to Jesus.

Shouldn't he, therefore, have been their boyfriend first?

It's kind of an arranged marriage.

Nuns have loveless marriages, though. It's really sad. If it were anyone but Jesus, the lack of conjugation would be grounds for divorce.

heh xpost

"Jesus, I have needs! I am a woman!"

http://embruns.net/logbook/images/jackhammer.jpg

http://www.blowfish.com/catalog/toys/images/t-div-1351.jpg

don't look at this.

http://www.carter-stephenson.co.uk/DissertationPics/exorcist.jpg

Is contracting w/ a prostitute a small number of times better or worse than sleeping with, say, seven people in one day for no pay at all because you hate yourself and want to be ruined/X-ed out? That was someone I know who's now happily married, and who deserves to move on.
Oh Lord! Her husband must be awfully proud. Then again, he's probably fucked up too. The above example is interesting with regards to the discussion on who is or isn't a whore. I have always maintained that the pecuniary transaction is irrelevant and that it's the actions that constitute the whoredom. By that token, an unenterprising prostitute may be less of a whore than is someone like the girl in the example above.

Her husband must be awfully proud.

WAHT?

Fuck you. It's not his business.

Sure it is. They are an entity.

To know, yes. (many casual sexual encounters, yes this is need to know info). To be judgmental, no.

And fuck the rest of that post, too.

grrrr.

Yes, yes... captain save-a-whatever. I know, I know.

That's so WTF that I'm going to observe the Special Olympics rule: in an argument with a crazy person, even if you win, you lose.

Wow. I hate to see the questionairre Jeb makes his potential dating partners fill out.

Wait... so in Las Vegas you can get married in like five seconds. You can also legally sleep with a prostitute. Why has no enterprising businessman put those two together, creating the ultimate hell-proof sex industry?! FOR 300 DOLLARS, GET MARRIED, BANG YR NEW WIFE AND GET ANNULLED. You could call it "Drive-Thru Consummations" or something!

"Question One: Are you a virgin?
Question Two: Are you or have you ever suffered from mental illness?
Question Three: Do you believe in any separate existence from your significant other?

If you answered yes to any of Questions One - Three, please throw this away, and leave this House of God.

Millions of American dollars await you, Will.

Is annulment approved by the Vatican?

According to the Church, an annulment affirms the Scriptural basis of divorce and at the same time affirms that in a true marriage, a man and a woman become one flesh before the eyes of God. The Church's teaching on marriage is that it is a Sacrament and that it is only validly contracted by the two individuals, so questions may arise as to whether that person is able to contract a valid marriage. In the Western tradition, the ministers of the marriage are the two individuals themselves, and the priest is a witness for the Church.

Q. Who Needs An Annulment in the Catholic Church? (Civil annulments are handled by the civil courts.)

A. Anyone (Catholic or Non-Catholic) who was previously married and who wants to remarry in the Catholic church should discuss the circumstances of their former marriage with a priest to determine if an annulment or nullification of the previous marriage is necessary.

So if the circumstances were "We did it once in the parking lot," is that grounds for annulment?

Details, details. It doesn't need to be waterproof. People would buy into it. BUY INTO IT WITH DOLLARS.

If that one time in the parking lot was preceded by a marriage ceremony in a quick marriage chapel in Vegas, then yes.

It's all so frightfully romantic.

Haha, waterproof.

I meant "airtight."

I haven't eaten anything today... brain is going :(

No prostitution in Vegas. Only counties with a population below <x> (60k? 100k?) have legal prostitution - ruling out anything near LV. All the hookers are near Reno, I think.

to answer the first question, yes I have done this...

If said person hadn't any STDs, I'd be okay with it. You know, assuming I wasn't ending up with the guy who wrote My Secret Life. Not that much different than a bachelor party...I know there's no sexing at the bachelor party, but paying lots and lots of money to lick expensive women's fake boobs or get lap dances is even weirder to me, as it's just the "done thing." And this is right before you get married. Whereas I'm assuming if someone saw a prostitute, it was bcz they really needed and outlet for sex once or twice when no options would be available for a fair amount of time.

(NB I know this is not the MO of many/often/seldom/some/most bachelor parties.)

I would not be in a relationship with someone who had sex with a prostitute while we were already in a relationship tho. Here's your keys, can I have my copy of Black Monk Time back? k thx BYE.

...the further reaching implications notwithstanding, there was nothing wrong with the transaction as I imagine it---he was on vacay, it was easier, and arguably more honest than schemin on some gal, I'm sure he conducted himself in a gentlemanly fashion. I have been plagued by worries that he might not have considered "okay, what I am contributing to here," but I don't know all the details. But I asked and he was forthright, so I can't really hold it against him. (Like Laurel said, if you already know someone before finding this out...)

err..xpost

Abbott, don't loan out Black Monk Time

I KNOW THIS ALL TOO WELL.

That is the real moral of this thread.

wait, do I have low self-esteem? xpost

do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you,
do you know why i hate you baby?

Because you never returned my copy of Black Monk Time.

you know kenan, you are only increasing your reputation as a john

It seems to me that it all boils down to if any action in someone's past is forgivable, as long as the feeling is right. On a strictly emotional level, it is probably so, but since when did emotions become the be-all end-all arbitrator for what is right? I would like to think that I would have the will-power to end a relationship in a split second if it turned out my amorata had indulged in prostitution, bestiality, etc., prior to our teaming up - howsoever my feelings told me not to. And I expect nothing less from the people to whom I lend my trust. I guess that what I'm saying is that frivolous forgiving can lead you morally astray.

you sound like a scary old gentleman waving a stick

I shall immediately commence the most frivolous forgiveness as there's little I prize more than being led astray, morally or otherwise.

Also, 'teaming up'?

Jeb scares me

If I tell him I've engaged in bestiality, will he go away?

curious if anyone on this thread has seen this film

In my experience most men that are regular patrons of the sex industry (strip clubs/prostitutes/escorts etc) are not into it so much because they're desperate to get laid or anything like that. It has more to do with power (and by extension displays of wealth).

(and being "transgressive"/bad etc.)

haha ferrell in 'blades of glory: "i'm a sex addict... no, it's a real illness.. with doctors..."

Gah, I'm getting freaked out here people! This is scary turn thread has taken! I think all that can calm me now is conjugating "to be."

am
are
is
was
were
be
being
been

*whew*...that helped.:D

there's little I prize more than being led astray, morally or otherwise.

-- Michael White, Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:39 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

welcome to 1890

Shakey, did that really come out that long ago? There were fliers just, (what?) six months ago for a screening iIrc.

Did you mean to link to this, Shakey?

welcome to 1890

Ah, so you're a connoisseur, too?

Abbot, you forgot do / does / did / have / had / can / could / will / would / shall / should / may / might / must, dear.

Did you mean to link to this, Shakey?

ah yes, sorry. dunno what happened there

I can see what Messrs. White and M1ll3r are hinting at. In fact, Oscar Wilde would be a useful addition to ILX, although it would probably lead to yet more people passing off his memes wit as their own.

those are not conjugations of "to be"

This was a mild enough freakout to require just the Classic Eight. No animals got ran over here.

Actually, I am minded of a possible offshoot: historical figures who would've been great ILXors?

although it would probably lead to yet more people passing off his memes wit as their own.

However could THAT be possible?

That's one of the duller things Oscar Wilde ever said. Don't see that on too many coffee shop greeting cards.

They're the helping forms, Amanda -- I had to learn them all in jr high English and have never managed to forget them.

xp to Abbot: ahh, okay. Will save the others for serious crises in future.

they are modal verbs

devolution into grammatical pedantry: COMPLETE
let the whoring commence

I love you. What are modal verbs? xp

can / could / will / would / shall / should / may / might / must, etc

they are welcome to go with more verbs than "to be" they add shades of meaning
i am esl teacher

i could eat some more cantaloupe
she will whore if she's desperate
he would prostitute his own mother
you can call me a moron if you want

Is 'can' considered a modal verb? I didn't know that.

However could THAT be possible?

I'm sure Wilde already invented "I am the small cat", or something. Probably phrased it really elegantly though, like "Those who talk ill of their inferiors talk ill of me, for I am the small cat".

yep, unless you're talking about green beans or fruit jellies or getting fired

she likes to can her green beans, but i think they're gross
i got canned when i worked at a pizza place

A SMALL CAT MAY LOOK AT A SMALL KING

may=modal verb

If I could just recall his epigrammatic original version of 'fuck washing a hat'.

The Importance of Fucking Washing A Hat
=

Shakey, I've seen that film. I thought it was great, not only as an insight into the psyche of someone who regularly patronized prostitutes, but just overall. Zahedi's films (and his persona) remind me quite a bit of Ross McAlwee...just add liberal helpings of sex + drugs.

The Fucking Unwashed Hat of Dorian Gray

its a pretty good movie, a good combo of uncomfortable humor and insight - altho I think the real underlying/running joke of the movie is that he's not so much a sex addict as he is a selfish asshole. something I've found to be true of the men I've met in my life who like to get handjobs from massage parlors and lapdances from coked out chicks with fake tits.

I shall immediately commence the most frivolous forgiveness as there's little I prize more than being led astray, morally or otherwise.

Ok, you are all very funny, but to see why I'm right, just imagine the sight of a rehabilitated Baghdad Bob, now rid of his fidgety, treacherous old self, fit and ready to make you coo with rapture. Are you telling me you would forgive him? The example is over the top, but you catch my drift.

no, not really

Baghdad Bob?

beats me, tho i do have Bob's Dad's bag

Hey, the Women's World Cup Soccer is on, and there's a Korean player named "Kum Suk."

...he's not so much a sex addict as he is a selfish asshole. something I've found to be true of the men I've met in my life who like to get handjobs from massage parlors and lapdances from coked out chicks with fake tits.

Hah, that sounds more like people who have questionable taste, as opposed to being selfish assholes...

But I agree with you regarding the film; in his dealings with his girlfriends/wives Caveh really pushed the envelope as far as selfish asshole-ry.

okay, former patron of prostitutes replies favorably to sms suggestion of porn watching with implied fucking to follow...three hours elapse...no contact from said fpp...two "hey, you still alive?" painfully coy-casual texts constructed which amount to "hey, where the fuck are you?!"...some minutes later: "sorry busy with some work rainchek (sic)" Draw your own conclusions from this...

no no no The Flickr Of Dorian Gray!

Re prostitution: it underscores and gives permission for the idea of 'expensive' and 'cheap' women and HEY GUESS WHAT the women are not the ones passing the judgement.

not this time

have you ever had a ben wai ball stuck in you?

Sorry, the last thing on Earth I want to do is whack some Chinese Ker-Bangers up myself. YMMV.

well, it's the last thing I want to do NOW but I already did it

i'd wager this is more dangerous than visiting a prostitute

dammit I don't have health insurance

okay, I imagine the key is to just relax, but dammit, it's STUCK

emilys. is my new favourite poster

If this was Viz Comic, advice would be to "M*str*bt it out..."

Jim DAvidson said something about chocolate and it coming out a treet...

Hey, so did JIM DAVIS! There's even a couple of Garfield comic strips on that subject. I'll be sure to post them later, but you can feel free to thank me in advance!

well, masturbating is what I get it so far in...I may be your favorite poster now, but I shall soon hemorrhage to death...

Well, the space is at it's largest just before..

hang on, I need to get a "nsfw" sign hung up..

I think the most popular and fondly remembered threads are generally those revolving around one specific poster in a particular situation in real time. Eg "there's this cute girl in the library opposite me, how do I start talking to her?" "a car alarm keeps on going off outside my house" or "help there's a man in a trucker hat having anal sex with my roomate on my couch".

-- Matt DC, Friday, 7 September 2007 09:31 (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

Or "help I have a ben wai ball stuck in my vagina".

Maybe we could go back to the middle ages when it was perfectly okay to rape a woman if she "roamed" the streets past nine.

What I mean is, prostitution caters to a need and maybe that's perfectly okay (unless it's forced prostitution)

Is it a 'need' though?

It's like anything that's not actually illegal but sort of 'criminalised', it ends up being controlled by the worst kinds of exploiters.

Still, better than being actually legal, controlled and safe, right DM readers?

where is Beth Parker now? Only she could possibly help me.

I'm here! I brought my barbeque tongs and I'll have those balls out in no time!

Words, Beth, I hope never to hear or read again.

OUT! thanks to, and I'm not kidding, some crazy oil from thailand left behind by a former resident of the house.

uh/

Ker-Bangers, jacksy, never....

Emily, should that ever happen again, a very nice lady at a sex toy party I attended this weekend (bachelorette party I had no choice) said the key to getting those out is just to squat.

mental notes from ilx edu:

make sure buttplug has flared base

only use ben-wa balls if crazy oil from thailand is onhand (or one is able to squat comfortably)

I'm sure some frying oil in a turkey baster would do as well. Inject, stand on head to really get it in there, and then squat.

i have no idea what this thread is about anymore.

too bad rumpie left 'balls' off her british bbq poll

I'm curious as to what exactly makes Thai oil 'crazy'?

The thread has mutated from philosophical to useful. You never know when you or a loved one will get a foriegn object stuck in her giney.
Which is sort of like being in a relationship with a ho-client.

foreign. God.

xxxxpost

Yeah, sorry. I started posting about my Rachael Ray sexual fantasies, and then the whole thread imploded into some Food Network meets hardcore porn thing.

I was in a green card marriage when I was 20. Talkin' foreign objects up there.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Balls.jpg/469px-Balls.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/sevenxviii/parenthesis7.gif

'Tongs, Ben-Wa balls, crazy oil' also sounds like the title of the memoirs of a sex tourist.

nice one, BP

I want to know where they got to. There's only a limited amount of space in there, right?

http://www.barbados.gov.bb/images/HarCave.jpg

You gotta watch the childbirthing.

So, are there a lot of OB/GYN's who also have training in dentistry?

HI-YO!!

http://i9.tinypic.com/5ykgk9k.jpg

Look, asking the guard would entail describing how this entire company whores itself out to the sales department so in interests of everyone's sanity, how bout I just eat across the street.

too bad rumpie left 'balls' off her british bbq poll

-- blueski, Wednesday, 12 September 2007 14:46 (1 hour ago) Link

lol grocery groin

I'm curious as to what exactly makes Thai oil 'crazy'?

-- Michael White, Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

umm, it was really oily oil?

omg

lol "men: would you have sex with a woman who was once a protitutr"

HAHAHA this thread went from lame to awesome

alls it takes is someone to admit to sticking things in their vagina. Instant funzone.

Is that what you call it?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011221.html

That is instant funkillzone. Come on, there were rapes and infants in that link ≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠ fun.

Who gives a shit what these people think?

The solution is to squat and bear down and push it out, just as if one were straining with a bowel movement. One can also use a finger or two to help direct the object out

looooooool Eyeball Kicks

Results 1 - 100 of about 256,000 for "ben wa balls". (0.20 seconds)
Results 1 - 100 of about 1,200 for "benoit balls". (0.12 seconds)

lol

I had this dream last night that Nerds candy came out with a fruit-roll-up style candy scrotal sac, and that you could buy (separately) individual candy testicles to put in it.

Ohhhhhhh....kayyyyyyyy....

You need to copyright that shit, Abbott.

Abbot's brain can't be copyrighted. Patented, maybe.

Additional Question...

What if their dad had tried to procure said prostitute?

Fucking hell all I got for my 14th was a lousy ZX81.

My father had a breakdown around mine - he was probably worrying about approaching prostitutes.

If you see a prostitute approaching you can always cross the road.

I just cannot imagine taking your son out (even if he was 20 let mind 14!) to look for prostitutes. "How about that one, son?"

I can't imagine repeatedly sexually assaulting your kids either but you know that stuff goes on :(

In this case his dad was probly trying to make sure he didn't grow up to be one of them gays or something.

I saw a father/son (who happened to have Down Syndrome)at a strip club once. I couldn't decide whether it was completely wrong and freaky or sort of sweet.

This thing with the hooker and the 14 yr old = definitely wrong and freaky.