why must every moderately successful store in the UK be immediately turned into a chain?

lol daily mail

lol logic of capitalism

I hear in the olden days there used to be a cobbler on every corner, and now there's an Ask. How long must we let this PC culture run riot?

At least America has stayed away from letting its dietary habits being placed into the hands of large chains. I believe there are still only four branches of McDonalds in the States.

i'll ask my mum when she's back from the butcher, baker, costermonger, etc.

xpost

wow

i wouldn't have believed a kneejerk circle jerk was physically possible

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40197000/jpg/_40197364_potter203.jpg

Pour one out

I mean, Tracer, you are aware that what you're arguing is the crux of 85% of reactionary articles about "DANGEROUS CHANGING FACE OF BRITAIN" ever written, yes?

your knee's jerking too, dude. just in another direction.

xpost

It seems to me that people go into business to create a chain in the UK more than anywhere else. It is written into the business plan from the start. Hardly anyone goes into business to create one very good store.

Unless you just buy the Daily Mail for monetary reasons. If you had more money you'd buy International Herald Tribune.

xxp

isn't it amazing how self-identified lefties can get suddenly patriotic when someone besides them "criticizes" something about their country?? (i speak from experience, here)

by the way, the daily mail "save our shops" campaign is great

I'm not British/English, Tracer.

I like Wagamama. I like Pizza Express. I don't know Masala Zone.

If all three cater for "common denominator" food, then they are doing a fairly good job of it.

There are better places I would go for great Thai food, Italian food, of course. And there are too many curry places to even bother with Masala Zone. But hey, when you're hungry, it's there.

lol "nation of shopkeepers"

Tracer, ILE is all about instant Twattery nowadays.

I'm not sure how much this applies outside london but my experience is that it does. I think there must be a book out there on how to write business plans that says you have to include stores two and three in the longterm expansion plans.

Tracer, ILE is all about instant Twattery nowadays.

the old twattery was brought in on horse-and-cart and lovingly prepared in the kitchen that very morning.

Slow twattery movement

by the way, the ILX "save our twattery" campaign is great

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 11:38 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

OK, I'll bite.

Tracer, why is less choice and higher prices such a great thing on the high street? Why do we need to "save our shops", are the livelihoods of the middle class really so much more important than lower shopping bills and increased food awareness amongst the general public?

WE HAVE A LITTLE TESCO IN MY TOWN, I HOPE IT DOESN'T GO NATIONWIDE IT'S LOVELY.

increased food awareness lol

Lidl sells langoustines, pheasant, and grouse. Patel's 24 Hours News and Food doesn't.

from the pizza express thread, Mark C says:

"when you need to find a place on any high street with which a group of people will all be happy, when you know the quality, hygiene etc is going to be of an acceptable level, and at a price most people are okay"

mcdonald's became a force at around the same time as holiday inn did. both took advantage of the massive demand from the new generation of interstate highway travellers for places that felt safe and clean, which many roadside motels and burger shacks did not.

i guess there is still something a little unsettling about other people making your food, hidden from view. i talked to a cab driver once (in manhattan) who said that he never ate in restaurants, EVER, because you don't know who's making your food and what they've just done with their hands.

xpost - the prices are only higher in relation to the bulk-rate deals made possible by the chains' enormous quantities of scale. we need to "save our shops" because independent stores give neighborhoods character and identity. in the case of the daily mail of course they undermine their own capaign at every turn but hey, that's the tabs for you

i'm all in favour of lidl - there should always be a place for "weird lots" discounter warehouses

Oh yes and there's that Iceland ad where Kerry serves have prawn canapes and filo parcels, mm tasty.

Patel's 24h = Payless or Costcutter.

xpost

serves have

^^^i thought you were australian?

again from the pizza express thread, ailsa says -

Of course I prefer to go to places where the food is freshly sourced and prepared, but sometimes it is nice just to not have to cook/wash up and on occasions like that then all I want is food that I know that I, and others in my company, will enjoy. Pizza Express/Chiquitos/Nandos etc all do that pretty well. I'm not pretending they are anything special or fancy, but they aren't McDonalds either.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

?! xp

we need to "save our shops" because independent stores give neighborhoods character and identity.
-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 11:58 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

^^^I actually understand what you're saying, and I do have some, loose, sympathy for it, but surely it's a point that only applies to middle class neighborhoods, suburbs, and villages? Because I sure as hell wouldn't argue that the "character and identity" of where I grew up has been lessened by two Tesco expresses taking over a laundrette and offy.

?! xp

-- ledge, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:05 (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Actually, I'm thinking of haitch. Ignore.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:03 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

When I was a child, fucking Little Chef was "special and fancy".

have you not just answered your own question with mark c's quote, tracer?

esp with food, it's the comfort level thing isn't it of having the mediocre but it's the mediocre you know.

it's like ILX and sam smiths, in a way.

bahaha

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

and also: how do you measure moderate success?

xpost - the prices are only higher in relation to the bulk-rate deals made possible by the chains' enormous quantities of scale.

i'm not seeing how this is a negative thing? i can afford to buy good food freshly stocked at , for instance, my local tesco. my local 'character and identity' local stores are stocked with overpriced cans/packaged food or rotting fruit/veg that's been there all week.

i should point out that i live in a rural area, and not in the UK, but i still don't see why there should be a campaign to turn overpriced corner shops into subsidised museums.

r-o-l-a-i-d-s

xpost

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:07 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.brandrepublic.com/Industry/Media/News/764495/BBC-needs-shake-off-London-centric-image/

CAN I GET TO THE VIETNAMESE GROCERY ACROSS YOUR STREET AND BE BACK AT WORK FOR 1 DO YOU THINK?

With the exception of my butcher (apart from their burgers, which are shockingly bad), the small shops remaining in the arcade near me sell vastly expensive produce of a much lower quality than Sainsburys. Doesn't mean I don't shop there but it's a depressing experience.

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

Er, where did I say that? I said I realised that Pizza Express/Chain-Restaurants'R'Us wasn't special or fancy, that doesn't extrapolate to "but everything else is".

it's just amazing to me that anything besides a chain is "special and fancy" to you guys

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i'd argue that it's exactly because indies in the price-range of pizza express aren't (necessarily) special and fancy that people see no reason to go with the unknown.

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

well done for living somewhere with a vietnamese grocery: possibly this is not a universal experience in britain.

Noodle Vague, not hiring a personal jet to fly from Hull to London to get a pork bun is just a monetary issue.

Tracer, seriously, just tap out and say "I have no idea of what Britain is like outside of my limited experience of professional life in London", and end it there.

i would go to the dentist to fix my bad teeth but it's raining all the time

i went to a very nice grocery store in hull actually. they sold fantastic yams and thai goodies.

Why do so many people ride on these ghastly "buses"?

Or maybe I'll just form grand metanarratives about what life is like in America based on the short clips of my flatmate's Ugly Betty DVDs I've seen.

xxxp

It may well result in lower prices but increased power and market share for larger companies doesn't benefit people in the long run. Once the competition has been squeezed out the larger stores are in control of pricing. And are we really sure prices in chains are cheap? I think it is something of a myth - the prices in Tesco Express or Sainsburys Local are very high! And as for Little Chef I have no idea how people afford to eat there.

At the other end producers have fewer customers, just bigger customers with more economic weight. We may have more choice this way but I would argue the quality of the food we eat isn't so good - looking at the uniformity of the fruit and vegetables in supermarkets is less than appealing

Even if the supermarkets priced out every small shop in the country they wouldn't be able to go "right, let's triple prices" because of anti-cartel and monopoly laws.

The point being made here is that there is this system called capitalism that is rather popular with the yoot right now.

This is like when idiot football fans wonder why Chairmen are only in it for the money.

i agree with dom: we got to do something about these folks who just come to our country, steal our jobs, and diss our pizza express.

I would argue the quality of the food we eat isn't so good

i must go and ask my 93-year-old grandmother about the wonderful range of quality food available to her in in 1930s liverpool.

mark presumably these crappy, expensive butchers will not become even moderately successful and therefore will not become chains.

xpost ok ailsa, but i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

isn't it amazing how self-identified lefties can get suddenly patriotic when someone besides them "criticizes" something about their country?? (i speak from experience, here)

^^^Me - accept it's not patriotism more frustration with people who want everything right all the time and don't want to pay for it and they want a tax rebate with that and free money and the sun to shine every day.

Meanwhile...

Hotel Chocolat seems to be expanding at quite a rate and I cannot believe they will be able to maintain quality...ahem...across the brand. I don't know why that is though.

I was discussing this the other day; comparing London to NYC and Chicago and even Orlando (on the north side, not down by Universal/Disneyland). London is much more chain dominated than these US cities Starbucks is easier to find in London than New York. i think we give into the chain values thing very easily here.

There are two questions here. Why do the brits love chains more than, say, the Italians?

Why does most people founding a retail business have 'chain' in the back of their mind when they do it?

One feeds off the other, of course. It comes down to the money. The culture of money is very much get as much as you can as fast as you can. Look at the expansion rates of Leon, Bodeans, or Masala zone. No one goes out to found the best rib restaurant in town and be satisfied with that and the money it brings in. I think people measure their success now, not by absolute sums of money, but by growth rates.

i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:16 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

that's kind of about right -- proper restaurants require booking and shit.

eating out was a big deal when i was growing up, and as dom will attest, i'm fairly middle-class.

dom i have been to bishop's stortford, that was enough for me

i haven't been to orlando, new york, or chicago, but damn, this culture of money is some bad shit and must be stopped.

Maybe we should nuke 'em all.

And their mewling brats too.

I've been to all three places.

I have no point to make, just wanted to say that.

money, capitalism, it's just none of it working out really.

Did I say that.

I think there has been a change in the culture of money over the last 10-20 years, which is interesting to note, whether it is wrong or right.

Further question - does the rise in chains contribute to the concentration of wealth and the decline in social mobility over the same period?

No.

i must go and ask my 93-year-old grandmother about the wonderful range of quality food available to her in in 1930s liverpool.

This doesn't mean the food that is in our shops and restaurants is of a good quality. It may be a different issue - but the spraying and coloring and storage of today's food isn't something I think is good for our health

yeah, going out to eat was a big deal when i was little too - even if it was to taco bell - going out is always fun, an event

I was quite astounded by some documentary recently that claimed Long life milk, GM crops and so on were more green, because of the economies of scale implicit in being able to store absolutely tons of it for long periods.

I mean, yeah I know what they are saying, but then...

it's an interesting question re social mobility. devil's advocate: running a shop you hand on to your kids isn't doing much for social mobility. (a lot of local shops are franchises now, i suppose.) but working up through the ranks of tescos could be.

xpost

Well, most of the "evidence" to the contrary is bullshit so yeah why not?

The kind of unique and independent eaterie we should be encouraging:

http://edwinmak.com/?p=260

In the US it seems obesity is something that strikes the poorer sections of society. Given that we are agreed that supermarkets bring greater choice at lower prices, is this something of a surprise?

So we should keep the peasants away from discount cakes for their own protection.

I just wasn't sure if we were supposed to be blaming poor people for being overweight, or whether the increased access to better foods at lower costs was helping them

I think we should blame them for being overweight and for eating awful frozen food in poorly designed restaurants.

i have attempted to eat at enis's but didn't have enough time to stay and sit and wait for the incredibly slow service - instead i got fish and chips to go at "fishcoteque" - but yeah it feels like a portal to another dimension

noodle i don't know wtf this thread has to do with "poor people"

or "peasants" as you say

In the US it seems obesity is something that strikes the poorer sections of society. Given that we are agreed that supermarkets bring greater choice at lower prices, is this something of a surprise?

-- cedar, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:32 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

wow.

i think sometimes it's nice to attribute human agency to poor folks.

I was responding to cedar's post about "poor fatteys".

If you don't see how criticising chain restaurants and cheap food might have class implications, you really are being disingenuous tho.

Criticising it in the way you did, specifically. Like it's just a question of bad taste.

The chain restaurant phenomenon isn't restricted to the bottom end of the market, we have chicken Cottage up through, Nandos, Pizza Express, Giraffe and Bodeans all the way through to Conran or Gordon Ramsey's portfolio of restaurants.

Damn, now I'm hungry.

Actually I agree re:human agency.

So why do lower income groups in the US have higher rates of obesity?

wagamama is pretty good but i agree with the thrust of what tracer says in this thread.

the rich ones seem pretty fat too, to be fair.

xpost

xpost

So am I and I think I am going to cycle of for a non-chain chinese bun, but last time I did this I was diverted by the chain Bodeans, it could happen again especially as today is a day for burnt ends.

In America, streets are paved with cheese.

noodle vague in what way is wagamama "cheap"?????

I don't even know what a wagamama is. In what way is it bad?

it doesn't use fresh-sourced peasants, it uses pre-ground peasants

Anarcho-punk collective, had a big hit with "Tubthumping".

xp

aren't wagammama dolls banned now?

xxpost

I think not even trying to make sense might be a sign of bad faith.

Burnt ends are Sunday and Wednesday, I thought? Hmm I have a Bodeans 100 yards from my office (BUT I'M ON A DIET NO NO NO).

Is there anyone here whose FAVOURITE place to go out to eat (not some £100 a head restaurant, somewhere reasonable) is a chain restaurant?

Not me.

This thread still has a way to go before it matches Tracey's DAEREST BRITISHES: WHY YOU NO WASH DISHES PROPERLY?

all the chinese buns shops are run by the triads, ed!

wagamama is cheap when you get those 2 for 1 vouchers

it's my favourite place to go for lunch. in a way that is because there is a lack of good cheap noodle shops in the vicinity.

but that also brings a point - near where i work, in central london, it must cost so much to set up a business that, almost all of the time it is going to be a big chain store who can afford to do this???

on holloway road there are quite a few indie food stores. although amici had a shop down the road

if your business is doing well, and you have the capital to expand the business, and the market is there to absorb your growth, why wouldn't you do it?

there are probably loads of moderately successful shops that do not branch out. but you will never hear about them because there's only one?

xpost conscience and a concern for the traditional profile of the area.

LOOK TRACER A WOP LIKES PIZZA EXPRESS AND A CHINK LIKES WAGAMAMA

it shows how far gone you are

Assimilated is the word, I think

what does conscience have to do with this? it's unethical to expand your business if you believe it is something good and you know that people enjoy it?

there are probably loads of moderately successful shops that do not branch out. but you will never hear about them because there's only one?

-- ken c, Monday, November 5, 2007 1:09 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is the thing. hard to compare a chain with a single restaurant. if the single restaurant is conveniently situated for your needs, great.

wagamama are the nips. mark. english people love haggis.

haha i am so wrong. wagamama dude was totally from hong kong

¦)

but then pizza express dude was from peterborough. go figure!

Is there anyone here whose FAVOURITE place to go out to eat (not some £100 a head restaurant, somewhere reasonable) is a chain restaurant?

-- Mark C, Monday, 5 November 2007 12:54 (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.buddiesrestaurants.com/

what does conscience have to do with this? it's unethical to expand your business if you believe it is something good and you know that people enjoy it?

sorry ken, should have included the /sarcasm tag after that post.

you should have included the /italkshite tag after your post.

you're saying everyone who runs a successful business has no conscience.

or are you saying that no business ever delivers something good for anybody.

in that case, close all shops?

what makes a shop with one branch more ethical than two?

if you cannot answer that, then you have just talked shite.

I can't answer that!

jesus ken, i just told you it was sarcasm. wtf?

oh! sorry

i thought you said "sorry ken, you should have put the 'sarcasm' tag on" which had a totally different meaning!

i like wagamamma's because there are few other japanese restaurants near me which do katsu don (though there's a killer place just by piccadilly circus). i like bodean's because there are few other american barbecue places near me. i don't understand the attraction of masala zone in london, where there are tonnes of great independent indian restaurants. and my favourite italian restaurant, presto, was dirt cheap and delicious but closed like four or five years ago, i think, though the aurora is nice, when i can remember where it is.

Yo Sushi is good because you can go there after you've been to Lucky Voice, assuming we're talking about the Yo Sushi on Poland Street.

The "yay chain restaurants for bringing affordable dining out for the working classes" is flawed because in many cases independent restaurants are not significantly more expensive than chains. But I'm enjoying the "hooray global capitalism for saving the working classes' precious pennies" doublethink at work here.

how many 'masala zones' are there in london anyway?

The "yay chain restaurants for bringing affordable dining out for the working classes" is flawed because in many cases independent restaurants are not significantly more expensive than chains.

indeed but people don't want to take a punt, as has been said repeatedly; they know what they're getting, as said repeatedly. it hasn't been established that cheap indie places even have better ingredients. IT'S JUST LIKE WITH POP VS INDIE REALLY.

And the answer to the original thread question is that, more often than not, they are backed up with private equity/venture capital/seed capital money rather than old-fashioned bank loans and investors be wanting to grow the business as quickly as possible.

i had a domino's last night :D

One of the best restaurants I've ever been to was a run-down Italian place in central London called the 'Centrale'. You could grab a huge plate of delicious pasta (with chilli sauce/other toppings) for about three quid. We were taken there by a wonderful, worldly-wise teacher of mine, and we ate superb food for extremely low prices. It had a reputation of being homeless-friendly; tramps would often come every few days, having saved up their takings, and it would serve them without prejudice. When it closed down a few years ago I was greatly saddened. I think Dom would have adored it (not least because he'd have been able to natter along with the charming owners in their native tongue).

My point? Some independent places are not only cheaper, but they're necessary.

But I had a lovely chatter with a beautiful girl who worked at a KFC. Which was also very homeless-friendly, so in a way it's not what type of shop it is it's the people in it, innit.

That Centrale place was nice though.. (near old compton street??)

Assuming it's the same place.. the lady (presumably the owner) was very charmingly angry. and shouted at us a lot, but in an adorable way

Yeah, I think it was near (or on) the circus (Cambridge Circus?) where Shaftesbury Avenue joins Charing Cross Road. [/rickety geography]

The lady was indeed like that. She was also very sympathetic (if amused) when I succumbed to temptation, and the goads of my friends, and placed one of the very small, very red chillis in my mouth, and crunched down. Not overly distressed by the immediate effect, I repeated the process with a second. Sadly, my hubris was to be punished roughly 8 seconds later with a sensation I can only describe as 'internalised hell'. It took, I believe, five glasses of water before it even became normal 'hot-food' pain.

savin' the thread, one post at a time.

glad I'm not interested in food

lol scottish?

what are you interested in?

xpost

do you live on vitamin pills, RJG?

I'm not british/scottish

indeed but people don't want to take a punt, as has been said repeatedly; they know what they're getting, as said repeatedly

This has all probably been said already but the thing is, how do new chains get off the ground in the first place? I'm not sure if folks are somehow afraid of local food places or if it's the vibe of being just another anonymous customer that going into a chain brings or whether maybe people like to feel that they're somehow participating in this big exciting global machine, but I do get the feeling that people are more comfortable taking that punt with a chain restaurant. Is that right?

Yeah, I think it was near (or on) the circus (Cambridge Circus?) where Shaftesbury Avenue joins Charing Cross Road.

there is a pizza hut there. also an all bar one.

One reason for the success of chains in the UK is I believe due to land ownership. On the continent shopkeepers and so on tend to own their premises and hand them down, in the UK a lot of commerical / retail land is owned by landlords who can push rents to levels which only the chains can afford. I'm not sure when these landowners rose to power though.

Also The Pub.

xxpost: and a pub called 'the cambridge' and a couple of theatres. just beyond is lloyd's no.1 bar, which is a wetherspoons.

speaking of which, FUCKING WETHERSPOONS

^^^the real enemy

town vs gown

BAN LOUIS JAGGER, Spoonys is king

haha, like the regal isn't fucking chock full of cambridge students every saturday (xpost)

wetherspoons is very homeless friendly

going back upthread a bit:

i guess there is still something a little unsettling about other people making your food, hidden from view. i talked to a cab driver once (in manhattan) who said that he never ate in restaurants, EVER, because you don't know who's making your food and what they've just done with their hands

yes. i guess there is still something a little unsettling about other people making your underpants, hidden from view. i talked to a tinfoil-hat-wearing maniac once who said he never wore underpants because you don't know who's making them and whether or not they've wanked furiously into the vat of dye.

:/

as for the discussion in general ... i dunno, i'm becoming more and more worn down by shrill middle-class metropolitan posturing about how we all have to get back to little shops selling home-grown organic plums for two days a year etc, although a lot of this is down to a rash of articles i've subbed recently on said subject. it has become a kneejerk response on my part, i admit, but noodle vague, dom and others are OTFM above: this is absolutely and totally a class issue.

fine: if you've got the time and the cash to do all yr shopping at independent shops and avoid the multiples -- good on you. you're doing a decent thing. me -- and i'm as much of a middle-class wank as they get -- i leave the flat at 8am and don't get home till 9pm. i work one sunday in three, and spend many of my saturdays on arran helping mrs F look after her dad. with all this in mind, the 24-hour tesco is a fucking godsend, and i ain't gonna feel guilty about using it.

as for restaurants (whence this discussion came): as i said on the pizza thread, i fucking hate and despise pizza hut and would rather eat dom's spunk spread on an old boot. however: that's my opinion, and i'm not going to look down on some harassed mum taking her kids in for a child-/family-friendly meal, because -- hey! -- preferring the food from the wee bistro round the corner doesn't make me some superior life-form.

won't somebody think of the children

dom's spunk was so much better before it got sold out to this new scarf and blazer branded franchise

i was about to post that, only not ironically, because i'm told that having kids isn't entirely uncommon and, having grown up with parents, i can recall that maybe on top of everything that entails, maybe going to separate city-centre venues to buy foods each day wasn't an option as open to them as it is to young urban professional types.

xpost

Now if we're going to take as read that other countries in the world that aren't Britain contain parents with young children, people that work long hours and workers on low incomes, none of this is adequately explaining why there are so many chain stores and restaurants in the UK in relation to other countries.

One reason for the success of chains in the UK is I believe due to land ownership. On the continent shopkeepers and so on tend to own their premises and hand them down, in the UK a lot of commerical / retail land is owned by landlords who can push rents to levels which only the chains can afford. I'm not sure when these landowners rose to power though.

-- Free Peace Sweet!, Monday, 5 November 2007 14:19 (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

from the wee bistro round the corner

Which specific bistro - I am visiting soon and wish to know some good places to eat.

Free Peace Sweet - I was about to acknowledge that point actually!

You guys seem more american than most americans i this thread. Honestly, American chain restaurants are way better also.

FUCKING CHILI'S DUDE!!

Now if we're going to take as read that other countries in the world that aren't Britain contain parents with young children, people that work long hours and workers on low incomes, none of this is adequately explaining why there are so many chain stores and restaurants in the UK in relation to other countries.

-- Matt DC, Monday, November 5, 2007 3:15 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

i believe that chain restaurants and stores have taken off, in their colonial way, in the US. i recall that one of them was so successful they even own one of the british chains. apparently they sell ammunition and censored rap cds.

but also we work longer hours than those workshy euros, have a more 'urban' skew, lifestyle-wise, and possibly have more women in the workplace (ie not at home).

yeah that together with ed's point about business plans demanding extraordinary growth very quickly has got the ring of truth to it

(that was an xpost to Free Peace Sweet)

Subtext = woman, get back in the kitchen and cook me my dinner entirely sourced from the organic grocers in Hampstead?

Subtext = woman, get back in the kitchen and cook me my dinner entirely sourced from the organic grocers in Hampstead?

-- Matt DC, Monday, November 5, 2007 3:19 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

that's the subtext of this thread, and the daily mail's campaign, yeah!

not of what i was saying.

mmm nigella

Grimly Fiendish - I don't think anyone is blaming people who use or shop at supermarkets or chain stores/restaurants. Is there anybody who doesn't use them (I don't eat at chain restaurants but then I rarely eat out). I don't see anyone looking down on harassed mums taking kids for child-friendly meals here.

I think there is a conflation here between a) supermarkets and the decline of the traditional high street (since recreated inside some supermarkets), and b) chain restaurants and the disappearence of smaller establishments. They may be related but they are not the same thing. The chain restaurant can actually be a revitalizer of the high street (even as it homogenizes), the out of town development can be a death knell for the high street.

Also.. we're not just consumers and customers.. we're providers and suppliers as well

Which specific bistro - I am visiting soon and wish to know some good places to eat.

Glasgow has lots of nice places to eat. And a couple of Pizza Expresses as well :-)

xposts

Which specific bistro - I am visiting soon and wish to know some good places to eat

heh: i was thinking of amalfi, on west nile street, which is awesome (and genuinely is round the corner from a pizza hut). but woah, if you're visiting we need a proper welcoming committee/FAP etc! get thee to "try glasgow more".

Now if we're going to take as read that other countries in the world that aren't Britain contain parents with young children, people that work long hours and workers on low incomes, none of this is adequately explaining why there are so many chain stores and restaurants in the UK in relation to other countries

are there really? i'm not in a position to comment on that, but it sounds ... well, i'd like to see some stats, certainly.

i mean, sure, i have a romantic image of french or italian families sitting en famille in little family-run restaurants, but a) i think the french and italians have a very different relationship with and approach to food, and b) my romantic image might just be a load of old shit.

i would guess that, chain restaurants notwithstanding, we do better diversity-wise than, say, italy or rural france when it comes to food.

cedar: my ire was directed more at newspaper columnists than anyone on this thread in general :)

i've a lot more to say here but i really do need to get on with some work ... will hopefully return later, by which point the discussion will no doubt have shifted by six or seven planes.

speaking of which, FUCKING WETHERSPOONS

david guest was stood outside the regal the other night. CELEB FACT

i think the french and italians have a very different relationship with and approach to food,

This is basically it I think. The chain store mentality is just as strong in France as in the UK for everything except food. Paris still has about 50 farmers' markets because people are actually willing to spend their precious time patronising them (and paying their higher prices).

david guest was stood outside the regal the other night. CELEB FACT

on holloway rd??

and a wee supermarket on every other street

david gest, or a david guest i've not heard of? if the former, lol cheekbones. (tracer, tissp be talking about cambridge)

i actually go to 'spoons' occasionally, normally when the group i'm with winds up there. it's cheap, vast, impersonal, and overcrowded.

and a wee supermarket on every other street

The fact remains that 90 percent of food in the UK is supplied by five supermarket chains (or something like that), whereas in France the supermarkets have nowhere near that stranglehold.

yes

Glasgow has lots of nice places to eat.

mono?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_sub_res_percap-food-subway-resturants-per-capita

if supermarkets supplied 90% of the food in france, no one would have anything to argue about

carrefour 4tw

i.e. that place does great croissants but the bread is bad, and this place has the best lamb west of pau, whereas this place etc etc etc etc til your head splits open

yeah, sorry tracer i am talking about cambridge. and it was david gest, sorry. i didn't realise he spelt his name all funny style. he was fucking TINY

e leclerc was up and running before supermarkets in the uk btw.

nationmaster is great!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_tea_con-food-tea-consumption

Is the issue that the French and Italians are, generally speaking, more protectionist and precious about their cultural heritage than the British?

(And with that, clusterfuck fans, it becomes a race issue as well as a class issue, oh joy)

France and Italy are a lot less "integrated" in terms of their immigrant communities, put it that way.

I'm having roast beef for dinner

Plus the English "protecting" their culture of food is a bit like American Samoa protecting their culture of football, let's be honest.
lol xp

Is the issue that the French and Italians are, generally speaking, more protectionist and precious about their cultural heritage than the British?

time for a french farmer to weigh in.

that's why this thread is not about "the good old days" vs today's bad bad world

american samoa are my spiritual bros, it's not every day you let 31 in

Zelda, to a certain extent the crowds at a hypermarket Flunch would proove you a little wrong. However you are mainly right, france and especially italy have a culture of eating out that is very diferent from that in the UK. Walk round Turin on a sunday evening and every pizzeria and trattoria will be bursting with family groups, a fair number of whom will go and sit at the same table week inweek out or atleast on a monthly basis. There is an attitude of a local restaurant being an extensions of the home. It is certainly somewhere where the tenure of restaurant property is more ownership than leasing.

On the UK side, I think that the culture of leverage is pretty strong, i.e. mortgaging your business to extend your business. The banks of other European nations have been less gung ho about this.

Weather's nicer there innit?

Well we have a similar pub culture in the UK that places like Italy generally lack and that hasn't stopped the majority of them becoming owned by massive impersonal PubCos. I suppose you can pinpoint the moment that started to Thatcher forcing the breweries to sell off pubs, though.

firkin' chain pubs, hate the lot of 'em. :D

the smoking ban hasn't helped. sometimes a chain pub gained a musty individuality through the atmosphere created by its clientele. i don't smoke myself, but i'm really pissed-off about the ban.

i don't smoke myself, but i'm really pissed-off about the ban

Oh fuck off you're not, you bandwagon jumper.

I sort of agree with Tracer to some extent. Obviously the preponderance of chains is an economic factor and the US does of course have thousands of them, but in California at least most people I know tend to shop and eat at independent businesses or community-minded local chains. I think in Britain perhaps this kind of behaviour is seen as a little precious and bourgeois but that's sort of how Britain is, sometimes.

Walk round Turin on a sunday evening and every pizzeria and trattoria will be bursting with family groups, a fair number of whom will go and sit at the same table week inweek out or atleast on a monthly basis

and the vast majority of these families will be a snapshot of urban upper middle class, much like the clientele you mainly see sitting outside restaurants in any major european city.

it's the people you don't see eating at these restaurants that may well be shopping/eating in chain supermarkets/restaurants. they're generally the majority.

"if you can eat this peperami we'll know you're not a class traitor"

"ok"

menacing guard waves peperami under nose of detainee

"ugh.. no. NO!"

* bang *

apparently carrefour is the second largest hypermarket chain in the world second only to walmart

Oh fuck off you're not, you bandwagon jumper.

The majority of my friends are smokers, and I side with them and their right to choose. No way am I a bandwagon-jumper. I genuinely prefer bars with a musty old-man smoky vibe.

Of course you do. "Right to choose"? What right to choose?

you mean the right to choose what

darraghmac takes the arg one step further: european people who eat at restaurants are upper middle class!

Choose whether to smoke or not when they're out enjoying themselves!

um, i meant uppity middle class, possibly

they can choose whether to smoke or not outside

xpost

has the thread question been answered yet?

well i'm pretty sure Tracer knows why

Also with regards to "cheap food" and "chain restaurants" being one and the same, I am a graduate student with negative income. I can't even really afford Starbuck's!

Mark - lay off, just because you're really passionate about the anti-smoking ban it doesn't mean all non-smokers share your views. (I'm saying this in an affectionate, small nudge way, BTW.)

Personally, I prefer the small shops. For reasons of quality and middle class guilt. That said, I've just done a shop at Lewisham Tesco. My boyfriend is in hospital and, like, Grimly, I haven't got a spare second right now, let alone waiting for a carrot until I can get to the market on Saturday. (Fuck waiting a carrot?) The danger is a homogonised chain of supply, suppliers prices being forced down and being stuck with standardised apples.

The other issue: when I was really poor a few years back, small shops were a God send. I could buy small amounts from loose produce, three apples, one fish fillet etc. Supermarkets only really work as the cheapest option if you're bulk buying - so if you're feeding a family on a budget, then yes, supermarkets are cheaper. If you're an elderly person living alone/ a freelance journalist who hasn't been paid in three months, shop small and local.

and i'm not going to look down on some harassed mum taking her kids in for a child-/family-friendly meal, because -- hey! -- preferring the food from the wee bistro round the corner doesn't make me some superior life-form.
No, I think it's great. Means I can have a nice meal in wee bistro without screaming sprogs smearing food on each other! That said, if I had kids I'd probably take them - just because they'll have staff who can provid crayons and the other diners will know what they've let themselves in for.

this question was answered after 1 minute- if you do something well, and are making money at it(presumably), why wouldn't you want to expand?

You can buy 3 apples and one fish in Tesco.

Also, some of us have children who behave in restaurants, whether it's a pizza hut coz it's next to the cinema or a nice wee bistro.

xp

Darragh - because the appeal of some businesses and therefore their main USP is that they're unique?

wee-bistros were the reason maddie went missing

Maddy would still be with her parents if they'd taken her to McDonalds.

Oh I'd never take my kids for tapas, it's hard enough to get them to choose one thing.

and the vast majority of these families will be a snapshot of urban upper middle class, much like the clientele you mainly see sitting outside restaurants in any major european city.

Not in my experience.

No I know that Onimo - I quite like other people's children most of the time, it was said partly in jest. But some people are quite happy to let their children run riot (some people of all classes and income levels, before we go down that route.)

As for the smaller portions thing - you can in big superstores, but in the smaller branches I've really struggled to buy small amounts. And to get to a big store most of the time you need a car. (I'm basing this on personal experience, so may not be wholly accurate.)

also, those three apples and one fish are going to cost almost exactly what they cost at the wee shop around the corner

there are plenty of shopping configs for which the whole "supermarkets are cheaper" truism is AN CANARD (i.e. i can get a litre of puglian olive oil for a fiver at my farmer's mkt and carrots at 50p a bunch)

hey another thread where we can hate on corn:

Food is scarcer now thanks to market liberalisation, which helped to cut excess production and lower stocks. At the same time demand for grains and other food commodities has shot up in China, India and other countries with rapidly growing economies. The biofuel industry is gobbling up an increasing share of the corn and sugar crops. And this year floods and droughts around the world destroyed much of the harvest in countries such as Britain, which had one of the wettest years in recent history, and Australia, which had one of the driest.

http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10085859

of course that puglian olive oil is produced by african slave labour.. er eek

yeah the big-box grocery stores are only remarkably cheaper if you're buying shitty food, in my experience.

ok not to be too pejorative or classist, but "shitty" as in cases of coke, potato chips, frozen chicken, etc

in my experience, cases of coke and enormous bags of potato chips are enjoyed by rich and poor bastards alike

hmmmmmm.

yes that is my experience also

don't see as many middle-class kids eating mccain micro-chips and processed not-quite-chicken-burgers bought in frozen bulk, though, do you?

Darragh - because the appeal of some businesses and therefore their main USP is that they're unique?

yes, but to be fair business owners that know that this is their USP aren't going to expand, are they? the chain stores/restaurants that we're discussing are exactly the opposite, as are their selling points- cheap, mass marketed and (usually) predictable wares.

does it all just come down to demand? you don't see many antiques stores branching out into chains.

maybe there's a niche there......

yes, but to be fair business owners that know that this is their USP aren't going to expand, are they?

actually, yes: i can think of one glasgow-based, food-related business straight away that is desperate to run before it can walk (well: walk straighter, with fewer stumbles) and is in danger of fucking itself right up.

and therefore soon won't be a good stand-alone store for very long.

McFopp?

exactly!

it's sort of like the mid-90's insistence that every moderately successful band have some long, interminable "career"

xxpost

well, it's an interesting case: it began as an upmarket, slightly wanky but quite likeable women's clothing shop with a wee cafe -- which was fucking ace. so now they've opened a restaurant-cum-deli, which is good but has some teething problems (IMHO) ... yet already they're crowing about wanting to become a chain and have stores in major cities throughout england.

and i think, get it up you, you dicks: why not worry about doing one thing properly first? once again, though, it's the attitude that annoys me ... i see their "we're going to take our values to other cities!" stance as being just as annoying as "oh, you can't eat at chain X or shop at supermarket A! eat at independent place Y and buy at grocer B instead."

fundamentally, i loathe the middle classes of which i am part :(

has mono got a chain yet?

Tracer have you been to a Rasa yet during their time in London? I think they've done the 'small/burgeoning chain' thing quite well. It helps that their food is gorgeous but each restaurant is similar quality and feel yet themed - one is vegetarian, one does meat, one for seafood etc, but all Keralan food.

Of course this would probably evaporated if they opened many more restaurants, think there are only five or so.

Evaporate, even. Lol grammar.

rasa express on euston road is rubbish though.

has mono got a chain yet?

yes! well: it did have. stereo, in the west end [1]. but i believe it's now shut.

you'd think they'd have learned their lesson: mono, IIRC, was started by refugees from the 13th note, which fucked up royally (the 13th note on king street was being run by receivers for a long time; fuck knows who has it now) when it opened a second premises.

[1] actually, not really the west end but the arse end of argyle street and a total PITA to get to.

was stereo twice the size as mono? i was hoping there'll be another chain called meningitis or something.

can someone take me somewhere nice to eat this saturday?

that flying duck club is part of mono i think.

Do we know that the UK has more chain restaurants than the US? It doesn't seem likely to me, especially with the US casual dining places like Denny's et al.

of course it has less!

per capita, or whatever I mean. Isn't Tracer's argument that the UK favours chain restaurants more than anywhere else?

it certainly doesn't have less, but most probably fewer

i don't have an argument, i have a question!

The old Stereo is now 78, still owned by the Mono folk. And a new Stereo in town has just opened up on Renfield Lane (I'm going there tonight! I love me those chains). Plus The Flying Duck, yes.

xpost Ah, okay. I just hadn't noticed any glut of chain restaurants. But I live in a Scots town of just less than 20,000 folk, and we only got our first fast food place a couple of years ago.

was it an american chain?

have fun selling out to your colonialist pigdog masters, Alba

x-post - yeah, subway. :(

And a new Stereo in town has just opened up on Renfield Lane (I'm going there tonight! I love me those chains)

rly? whereabouts?

also, ken: is it this w/e you're up? 'cos i'll almost certainly be on arran :(

Renfield Lane isn't very long.

i can't actually think which one renfield lane is. what else is on it?

nothing it is a shit old lane between hope st and renfield st. one up from gordon st in front of central station

I thought that was Drury Street/Lane?

No wait that's one over isn't it?

ban glasgow

BANG LASGOW?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/music/reviews/singles/2002/02/25/something01.jpg

that is one over

love me some chili's

also i love the smoking ban. even when i was a smoker i appreciated it so i could get outdoors and potentially talk to some cute boy while asking for a light. ;)

i'm going to see acid mothers temple at this Stereo hole on the 16th Nov, so wld like to hear Alba's verdict

also, sunburned hand of the man at nice n sleazy this saturday

It is a big cavernous hole. They left all the urinals at The Flying Duck.

"independent stores give neighborhoods character and identity"

is the one thing that they might have to recommend them.

i don't know if it's true.

but to draw a few things together, i live -- at the moment -- equidistant between a co-op and a franchise corner shop. i can't remember what franchise, because it changes all the time. at one point i did a paper round for the franchise, at one point i worked behind the till at the co-op.

can't really say either of these provided either character or identity, but then the same goes for the three other comparable shops, including the newest, a polish place, in the area. there was no difference between the co-op and the londis (or whatever it was) either.

the co-op recognizes my grandmother and are sympathetic when, say, i have to go round and ask if they've seen her (she wanders) in the last half hour, etc. but of all the places i've lived, having a convenient place to buy milk hasn't added much, character-wise, to the community.

damnit GF! arran doesn't even have a mono!

I think it's hard to get past the class aspect. In the UK, being a foodie is essentially a middle class phenomenon. It's largely the middle classes who buy their meat and veg from Borough market or patronise the boutique delicatessens and specialist cheese shops. That's simply not the case in France and Italy, where the food culture cuts across the classes far more, which is why a place like Paris can support so many markets, so many cheese shops, bakeries, butchers and what have you.

i think that's true, and is possibly a big reason for the chain store phenom, since individual proprietorship either means "greasy glass worker's caf" or "snooty bullshit"

FWIW i don't think i've ever bought anything at borough market, although i do like to go marvel at the harts hanging on hooks around christmastime. with the prices there it might as well be harrod's.

i went to borough market just cos i was spending time at the hospital there. it was full of ghastly people like me.

How frightful for you

^troll

borough market is only appealing for people who love queueing for half an hour for a bacon sandwich.

proper foodie go to nag's head market innit.

I know I do

Starbucks is easier to find in London than New York

!!!!!!!!!

iT'S TRUE!

One thing to be said in favour of all those London coffee chains was that before they arrived, it was pretty difficult to get espresso coffee in London. They may have replaced all the greasy caffs, but most of them only served instant. Back in the eighties, you practically had to trek to the Bar Italia in Soho to get a drinkable coffee.

exactly. not that i was around then. but exactly.

lord knows how i remember this, but david fincher once said the same thing re. los angeles.

One of the best restaurants I've ever been to was a run-down Italian place in central London called the 'Centrale'. You could grab a huge plate of delicious pasta (with chilli sauce/other toppings) for about three quid.

Oh, if that's the place I think it is, I found it once by chance a long time ago, and it was lovely.

Who needs coffee when you have beer?

Who needs turnstiles when you have ennui?

You lost me there

sorry to bang on this relatively minor point but if you really think it's easier to find a starbucks in london than bleeding new york, you were actually in new jersey

I strolled the length and breadth of NYC last week, and it was certainly my impression that there were fewer Starbucks. Especially considering how many of the NYers I talked to were complaining about how bland and corporate Manhattan had become!

Yep, there are more Starbucks in Central London than Manhattan. Depressing as that is.

is the new stereo in the rennie mackintosh old daily record printworks?!

it is hard to conceive of somewhere with more starbucks than central london.

in a kantian sense.

dunkin donuts/baskin-robbins and bank branch offices have replaced starbucks as the preeminent nyc real estate scourge.

162 Starbucks within five miles of Borders Charing X!

http://www.starbucks.com/retail/locator/PrxResults.aspx?a=1&LOC=51.5146493429756%3a-0.12947326600996&CT=51.5146493429756%3a-0.129473266009966.76880352077202%3a5.07660264057902&countryID=242&FC=RETAIL&dataSource=MapPoint.EU&Radius=5&GAD2=&GAD3=+WC2H+0JR&GAD4=United+Kingdom&IC=51.5146493429756%3a-0.12947326600996%3a32%3a+WC2H+0JR

WAIT THERES A PLACE CALLED MASALA ZONE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

yah dunkies is a rash spreading down from boston

GIMMME A BIG ONE AND A CRULLAH

i have never heard of masala zone. is that really a thing?

its a thing. you should try it. eating in zones is cool.

A while ago I walked the whole length of Oxford St from Marble Arch to Tottenham Ct Rd. It was quite bizarre because you get about three iterations of all the chainstores: Starbucks, Borders, Boots, Next, whatever, and then fifteen minutes later they all come up again. And then again. Like you're in some weird space/time loop.

sorry to bang on this relatively minor point but if you really think it's easier to find a starbucks in london than bleeding new york, you were actually in new jersey

-- ^@^, Tuesday, 6 November 2007 14:50 (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

No, we were definitely in NY, Empire State, WTC, Chrysler, Trump, Central Park Zoo, all that!

A while ago I walked the whole length of Oxford St from Marble Arch to Tottenham Ct Rd. It was quite bizarre because you get about three iterations of all the chainstores: Starbucks, Borders, Boots, Next, whatever, and then fifteen minutes later they all come up again. And then again. Like you're in some weird space/time loop.

-- Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 3:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

cartoon background. this is true of most of the country though. bank, mobile phone shop, pub, pound shop, indian, bank...

my oystercard doesn't cover masala zone ;_;

according to starbucks.com, there are at least 300 starbucks in manhattan alone (i think this is what the search results max out at) and 206 in all of london.

206 + costa coffees + caffe neros = ?????

plus coffee republic. And Pret, EAT, and all that.

theres two starbucks in the mall down the street

you guys dont really get to add other coffee shops to starbucks all willy nilly like that

There aren't many Starbucks outside of central London though.

There are maybe three Masala Zones in existence?

There's two in central Reading!

the number of prets is pretty amazing. ok, not 'amazing', but they came up like mushrooms, same time as starbucks mroe or less, and it wasn't that long ago.

There's a Costa in Woodley, of all things.

I think the number of pret's is reducing, there was one in Slough once anyway.

seriously question.

where should i go for ramen that's better/cheaper/faster/stronger than wagamama?

Ask Sheena Easton!

"If love is good, let's get to ramen"

is tea drinking on the wane as coffee ascends? is this one of the things complained abt in the "daily mail" too?

surely pret a manger is for food rather than coffee anyway.

it's called pret a manger

is tea drinking on the wane as coffee ascends? is this one of the things complained abt in the "daily mail" too?

-- jhøshea, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 3:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol. i think it's a myth propagated by sting that englishes don't drink coffee.

How things have changed...

http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/teashop.jpg

Pret stores are quite small though, remember, plus they're all located in heavy office/professional areas. It's not as if there's 50 of them lining, I dunno, Corby high street.

is tea drinking on the wane as coffee ascends? is this one of the things complained abt in the "daily mail" too?

-- jhøshea, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 3:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol. i think it's a myth propagated by sting that englishes don't drink coffee.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 10:36 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

so do people drink both or do they fill different niches or what

There'll be statistics on it somewhere but I think a lot of people do both?

Because Pret is private we don’t face the same pressure to grow that a public company does. We will develop slowly, one shop at a time. There are about 150 Pret shops at the moment. Most of them are in the UK. We turn over roughly 150 million pounds a year and would like to make 9% profit but haven’t yet. One day we will.

Pret's owned by McDonalds, isn't it?

in america everyone believe the english to be tea drinkers. also americans believe tea is for fags.

but they definitely only want their toasts done on one side

mcdonald's own about a third of pret

The Irish are the crazy tea drinkers

americans do not believe the irish to be fags

i do get to add costa and cafe nero willy nilly because this thread isn't about starbucks it's about chain stores in general - the u.s. has no 2nd- and 3rd-tier coffee chains that even come close to the saturation of these two, at least that i know of - i'm surprised there aren't actually MORE costa coffees (especially if you count the "licensed" costa shops that are independent but serve costa coffees and are then required to hang a giant costa sign outside, blurring the distinction)

sorry - MORE costa coffees than starbucks is what i meant to say

there are 600 in the uk

u.s. has no 2nd- and 3rd-tier coffee chains that even come close to the saturation of these two

there are but they tend to be more regionaly clumped - dunkin donuts in new england, pete's in california, everything in the pacific nw etc.

in boston there are waaay more dunkies than starbucks

the u.s. has no 2nd- and 3rd-tier coffee chains that even come close to the saturation of these two

well in the UK it doesn't take much to jump from "regional" to "national," right?

in the upper midwest we have caribou and dunn brothers coffee places, as well as shitloads of indie places (lol twin cities)... go somewhere else and it's what, au bon pain? there are lots of starbucks competitors but none have their reach, no

xp!

Caffe Nero is actually pretty good though. Costa = meh. Starbucks = rubbish coffee. But yes, nowhere outside Zone One is anywhere near 'saturated' with them. I think Costa is only all over the place because it picked up most of the Coffee Republic places when they went bust.

There are still *a lot* of independent cafes and coffee shops in Central London, mostly catering to office workers.

yes DC that's very true abt central london

apparently there are two tea chains set to expand in the UK:

Betty's Café Tea Rooms

and

Tea

"Once we are in a position to start expanding," Spence says, "we hope to raise more finance to open 10 to 15 units in three years. We'll probably initially look at London locations such as Canary Wharf, the West End, Covent Garden, Notting Hill, St John's Wood and Richmond."

Looking further ahead, Spence says that he envisages one of three possibilities - an outright sale of all units, the setting up of a franchise business, or a brand rollout across the country financed by a launch on the Alternative Investment Market.

the u.s. has no 2nd- and 3rd-tier coffee chains that even come close to the saturation of these two

dunkin donuts!

ken, there's a place called sakura in central london that's supposed to have decent ramen. wagamama is horrible.

a wagamama was just opened in boston, by the way. i hope it bombs.

dunkin donuts is a donut shop

There are still *a lot* of independent cafes and coffee shops in Central London, mostly catering to office workers.

-- Matt DC, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 3:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

i was going to raise this earlier. working in w1, in the end, i tried different places, but cafe nero was basically better than the indies. sorry indies.

DD claims to be the "world's largest coffee and baked goods chain," serving 2.7 million customers per day at over 7,000 stores globally which includes approximately 5,300 Dunkin' Donuts locations in 34 states throughout the USA.[citation needed] This figure compares with the 10,800 stores of coffee chain Starbucks,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkin'_Donuts

tracer you're blowing my mind a little bit

their coffee is horrible come on

dunkin donuts is a donut shop

as someone who grew up in the greater boston metropolitan area i can unequivocally attest to the complete falsity of this statement.

There's a Wagamama in Boston AND a Wagamama in Cambridge. Both are awesome.

Also DD coffee tastes like cat ass.

their coffee is horrible come on

this is true.

people do luuuuuuuuuv it tho

my job here is done

xpost argh

maybe it's specially formulated to have a donut put in it

people love DD coffee, it's true. also, it is true that it tastes like cat ass

i'd rather drink the coffee at cumberland farms

oh wait, let's call that a "coffee shop"

cumberland farms: 1000 outlets

i like how the debate has unceremoniously changed from number in starbucks in new york vs. london to number of coffee chains in new york vs. london to number of quality, dedicated coffee chains in new york vs. london

you people are CRAZY-MAKING

hey they serve coffee at ikea too

point is dunkin dontus sells mostly coffee. might as well call starbucks a dry crumbly blueberry muffin shop.

maybe it's specially formulated to have a donut put in it

they do stock a donut known as the "dunkin donut" that has a little handle right on it for dunking

but that's a meatball shop

xpost

i like how the debate has unceremoniously changed from number in starbucks in new york vs. london to number of coffee chains in new york vs. london to number of quality, dedicated coffee chains in new york vs. london

Wait. . .do you want to have a ceremony every time the thread changes topics? Because we can do that.

i'm gonna give sakura a try i think lauren! seems to get some good reviews. a bit far for a lunchhour visit but perhaps a weeekend yummm.

Dunkin' Donuts is a doughnut shop that serves horrible, horrible coffee and awesome fake McMuffins.

http://atrp.gatech.edu/pt17-1/fptb_ribbon_cut.jpg

hope you enjoy it, ken. it was way too far from my office to be feasible.

let's have a ceremony every time mr. que is funny, that way we won't ever have to worry about it

ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE

GUYS I DONT HAVE ANY STATS RIGHT HERE BUT ID BE WILLING TO BET THAT 75% OF DUNKIN DONUTS PURCHASES ARE COFFEE SO ITS A COFFEE SHOP OK - THEIR BEST ITEM IS HOWEVER MUNCHKINS BECAUSE THEY ARE CUTE AND FUN TO EAT

the simpsons donut was really good!

the french cruller is pretty great too

Krispy Kreme has the #1 Koffee

you couldn't hurl a rock in my office without hitting someone who swears by DD coffee. unless you hit me, but my probably starts at the coffee part, so I don't count.

Wagamama is gooood, fck th htrz, etc. the one in Faneuil Hall isn't quite on a level yet with the ones in London that've been doing it a while longer, and is a wee bit small, but I can't speak for the Harvard Sq one. for th London people, Taro on Old Compton St is a good alternative if the bad taste in your mouth is more to do with the chain than the food.

i was going to raise this earlier. working in w1, in the end, i tried different places, but cafe nero was basically better than the indies. sorry indies.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 3:59 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

oh shit villandry on gt portland st, only that encapsulates the whole thing; you virtually have to wear white tie just to get served there.

probably = problem xp

Someone tell those guys they can't all cut the ribbon. One will almost certainly have the ribbon slip away from his scissors.

Coffee in Britain is shit, let's just cut to the chase.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/ohsnap.gif

Why is it that Dunkin' Donuts is a big Berlin thing? It was perhaps the most depressing time I had in Berlin, all because stupid German friends kept on ranting about how good it is. It isn't. I know of one DD in Ireland, which has two donuts. Hurrah!

why is santa claus naked

... daddy?

I think that Naked Santa Vampire pretty much settles this debate.

Coffee in Britain is shit, let's just cut to the chase.

-- Matt DC, Tuesday, November 6, 2007 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

whaddayagonnado. i think it's fine.

views on PAUL, i wonder, which i think is good + overpriced.

the bad taste in my mouth from wagamama has more to do with crappy, dumbed-down food that was generally over- or undercooked as opposed to any corporate affiliation. it was one of the only restaurant meals aside from macd's that my friend's toddlers would stand for so i'm more well acquainted with the chain that i'd like to be.

maybe they fucked your food up on purpose. did you do something to make them mad?

Coffee in Britain is shit, let's just cut to the chase.

otm! and while we're on the subject, what exactly is it that keeps starbucks in europe from offering regular brewed coffee just like it does in north america? i don't know many real-life americanos who jump at the thought of espressos diluted in hot water.

fuck knows -- but everybody knows starbucks is rubbish.

though tbh it's just fucking coffee.

thats a good point. coffee is just coffee.

i like a good cup, but i'm not shedding a tear if it's marginally better in paris or milan or whatever.

Waga's habit of bringing the food exactly when it's ready, is rubbish.

i.e. you get yr boiled rice 10 mins before the main course it should be with.

Do you Britishes not get Illy brand canned coffee? That stuff is far and away better than a bunch of the stuff you get filtered fresh at various chains, and that's all the way in Canada!

yeah we can get that, i think.

There's a can of the stuff sitting about 5 yards from me as I type this!

just coffee?

is that like freedom fries?

It's distributed by Radiohead.

You brew it for yourself.

Taro on Old Compton St is a good alternative if the bad taste in your mouth is more to do with the chain than the food.

Sorry Roberto, there's another Taro about 300 yards away on Brewer Street.

what exactly is it that keeps starbucks in europe from offering regular brewed coffee just like it does in north america?

Nothing, they do offer it. Maybe they've marketed the Americano so that people don't think to ask for it?

it's never on the 'board'

i'm not sorry, they're allowed two if they're good. xp

og cluster gangbanger JB weighs in

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/julie_burchill/2007/12/why_i_love_tesco.html

Number of times she can fit personal pronouns into one sentence really is astounding:

"Maybe I'm lucky, but personally I find I get all the validation, passion and commitment I need from my family, friends, religion and voluntary work"

Nice ad for the voluntary work there too. yer a GOOD PERSON joolee!

i think it's a fair enough thing to chuck in, given the moralism of winterson's piece.

I haven't read Winterson's... she also wrote that pro homeopathy piece so I have little sympathy for her, but Burchill's piece is staggeringly banal, irrelevant, and full of strawpersons.

to give you a taste of JW, it begins "The moment I step off the train in Paris or Venice, Amsterdam or Rome, I head straight for a little bar I know, and ask for a glass of champagne or a creamy Prosecco, an aged Jeneva or a Campari Soda. These tiny family-run places are totally different to one another in feel and style, yet what they have in common is what makes them precious; they are the real thing."

seriously.

I hate ILE, everyone will be so above consumerism that they think Tesco is great!

Both articles are full of shite. BOTH.

Both are snobbish and irrelevant and make claims that are founded on horrible assumptions.

great revive

Burchill's piece is staggeringly banal, irrelevant, and full of strawpersons.

:)

Prosecco isn't creamy and JW's shop in Spitalfields is THE MOST OVERPRICED GROCER IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Most supermarkets are OK by me but I just don't shop at Tesco because of the Shirley Porter links, or ASDA because it's Wal-Mart. Sainsbury is essentially run by its founding family, so FINE and Waitrose is part of John Lewis, which is one of the most sound companies in Britain. I think making choices based on these things are perfectly reasonable. The big cash and carries run by Turks, Bengalis, Punjabis are fantastic and well worth a trip (especially for those giant bags of Basmati rice).

I work summer Saturdays in a farmer's market and like everything in the world, there are good and bad value items to be had and a surprisingly wide cross section of people shop there.

I can't help but make the mental link between those Krispy Kreme stands in every Tesco and the fat people in every Tesco.

The only good thing about Krispy Kreme is that its chief executive has his wage paid by the hour. OK, so he's making 100 times what an entry level employee would get, but still.

I think the main good thing about Krispy Kreme is that they make doughnuts.

Crap horrible doughnuts with gunk in the middle that tastes like sickly sweet shit.

RONG

with gunk in the middle that tastes like sickly sweet shit.

what do you usually get in the middle of a donut?

FOIE GRAS YOU FACKING PLEB

pizza

http://no-pleebs.com/no-plebs.jpg

Any views on Beard Papa? I really liked it when I visited New York last year. I see one has opened here in London just off Oxford Street (though it doesn't look like it serves the full range)

Any views on Beard Papa?

he's just a good friend, son.

I can't help but make the mental link between those Krispy Kreme stands in every Tesco and the fat people in every Tesco.

-- James Mitchell, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 19:39 (Yesterday) Link

That'd be "every Tesco within a very small circle of central London and about three outside of the nation's capital, thus making this a fantastic way of analysing greater trends in the wider sphere", yes?

At £1.29 for a bun Beard Papa can fuck right off.

there's a protest in the gentrified area of cambridge (trust me) at the moment about the prospect of a tesco coming in... the thing of it is, most provincial corner shops are not the vietnamese-truffle-vending, sourdough donut emporia that you get in that london. the most exotic place going is the polish shop down the road -- which is awesome if you're really into canned goods.

Sometimes you really need some cubed sausage in mayo, right?

Any views on Beard Papa?

The fucking rancid stink of this shop makes me feel sick just when I'm walking past it to get to Berwick St. I don't know how anyone could possibly venture inside.

there's a protest in the gentrified area of cambridge (trust me) at the moment about the prospect of a tesco coming in... the thing of it is, most provincial corner shops are not the vietnamese-truffle-vending, sourdough donut emporia that you get in that london. the most exotic place going is the polish shop down the road -- which is awesome if you're really into canned goods.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 20 December 2007 09:31 (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^Don't the students help bring in exciting foreign food trade? Like pizza, kebab, and fried chicken.

Or whatever Oxbridge students have after a night on the lash. Quail in dulce de leche.

Don't the students help bring in exciting foreign food trade? Like pizza, kebab, and fried chicken.

only on special occasions

They get it catered in for ironic Oik Parties, amirite?

we only buy it to fling at commoners from punts

Man, never look a gift kebab in the mouth.

The blue-green world is drenched with doner vomit

Maybe Tracer set this thread up because he was dispappointed to discover that Favorite Fried Chicken was actually a chain.

There's a fried chicken place near where I live called "Favourable".

There's a place in Bridlington (I think) called "Kebab Machine" - awesome name.

Top 3 N'pton kebab venues:

3. Millennium Kebab: nice bright yellow seating and some fruit machines for getting rid of your shrapnel
2. Up All Night: has Laurel and Hardy-themed decor, good banter with the guy who owns the shop, all the staff are Turkish dudes listening to really loud bassline house
1. King Kebab: wow. Used to have a vintage Guinness Book of Records quiz machine, now just has some awesome naan/garlic/onion freshness to hit you with.

Indus, which is just round the corner from our house, serves the greatest kebabs I've ever eaten in the UK when they're on form. They used to have a triv machine too but I liked the guys too much to rip it off very often.

Also: naan bread instead of pitta = hell yeah.

^^^serious, this should be an Early Day Motion in parliament

Is there anything worse than checking out a kebab shop in a strange town and getting some pathetic tiny pitta sandwich with a bit of raw onion and a slice of tomato on top?

The Holocaust.

But other than that, no.

TRENDWATCH I DISAPPROVE OF: serving donner meat and chips in a chip box rather than a kebab box. Way to rip off the punters, Abdul.

When I worked in a kebab shop we used chip boxes and that was years ago. I put about a stone on when I worked there.

oxford has way more kebab vans than cambridge -- just one of the many, many differences. (the only one i can think of in cb is at the elizabeth way bridge end of newmarket road -- any others lj?)

speaking of the holocaust, you can't move for kebab shops in krakow.

Isn't Oxford 30 council estates and a university, though?

no.

they're all "over the river," where the townies live. i guess they have kebab vans too, but even townie-free central oxford has a bundle.

townies and post-students, i should add.

I love people who say "town and gown"

Like this dude?

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5549/jrjbigvk1.jpg

Have you noticed how the very first post on this thread reads like a DJ Martian spoof?

there is a pub in cambridge like five minutes from here called 'the town and gown' lol. never been.

3. Millennium Kebab: nice bright yellow seating and some fruit machines for getting rid of your shrapnel

There is one of these in Stoke Newington too. I have sampled their wares often, and they are tasty. Does this mean they too are a chain?

Would there ever be room for a chain of doner kebab shops?

The Queens Head pub near the Reading Uni campus had a Town bar & a Gown bar, I guess to try and prevent trouble.

Have you noticed how the very first post on this thread reads like a DJ Martian spoof?

I did notice! All it needed was SYSTEMS THINKING and a HOLISTIC APPROACH to make it complete.

Would there ever be room for a chain of doner kebab shops?

-- stevie, Thursday, 20 December 2007 10:57 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Aren't Kebabish a chain? And there's a really popular kebab chain in Ireland that's had a couple of (failed) attempts at cracking the UK market, mainly due to their insistence (the one time I went there) on putting thousand island on my donner.

Would that be Abrakebabra? There's one of them in Glasgow, or there was the last time I was up Sauchiehall Street looking at fast food places (er, about two years ago)

townie-free central oxford

they may not live there but they sure as hell hang out there

Would that be Abrakebabra? There's one of them in Glasgow, or there was the last time I was up Sauchiehall Street looking at fast food places (er, about two years ago)

-- ailsa, Thursday, 20 December 2007 11:09 (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

^^^that's it

not really though... you gotta regulate like warren g.

xpost

Chain kebab stores are diluting our culture and forcing much-loved locally sourced kebab merchants into sleazy back alley vans or something.

Most Kebabish customers not even BORN when kebab vans first came into this country, PLANK Conor McNicholas selling our Vietnamese arthouse late night food snacks DOWN THE RIVER.

Waitrose is part of John Lewis, which is one of the most sound companies in Britain.

Hmmm.

"John Lewis, a major UK retailer, only recruits programmers from Oxbridge, does not take notice of field of study, and trains them itself from scratch."

Good Capitalists vs. Bad Capitalists

"John Lewis, a major UK retailer, only recruits programmers from Oxbridge, does not take notice of field of study, and trains them itself from scratch."

-- caek, Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:23 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

wau

surely there's no such thing as a good capitalist?

John Lewis and Vietnamese Pie shops, apparently.

http://nerdwithswag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/50centobeyking.JPG

John Lewis's reason is apparently that the quality of programming graduates is extremely variable. It's in the nature of the subject that there's a pretty large fraction of graduates for whom its never 'clicked', but who make it through anyway because of the normalization of the graduating class. So they say a programming degree is no better indicator of programming ability or potential than any other degree. This is apparently not particularly controversial, unlike the next line in their logic, which is that the best technical undergraduates come from Oxbridge.

ONE OF US, ONE OF US

did not read that lame burchill article, but i bet it was lame

Burchillax

did not read that lame burchill article, but i bet it was lame

-- blueski, Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:45 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

it's a love/hate thing for me.

did Abrakebabra exist before being referenced in the Pauline Calf Video Diary?

abrakebabra has been in ireland for donkey's years.

and donkey meats, i suspect

JW's shop in Spitalfields is THE MOST OVERPRICED GROCER IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Not enough has been made of this. I went in there and literally started laughing at some of the prices. It is ridiculous. But if people are stoopid enough to but £8 pots of jam because they've been made by some Italian artisans I'm not going to stop them. They should however shut the fuck up when I want to increase their income tax.

I am wanting spicy chicken kebab meat (in a tray - I don't want any pitta thanks) with the spicy grease seeping out onto the chips. Now.

TRENDWATCH I DISAPPROVE OF: serving donner meat and chips in a chip box rather than a kebab box.

Is a 'Kebab box' one of those horrendous polytyrene things? KEBABS COME IN A PITA, OR WRAPPED, AND IF YOU MUST YOU CAN HAVE SOME PAPER YOU CUNTS.

kebab shops are too inconsistent. had great chips from local place 2 weeks ago. last week, around same time, they were terrible i mean like KFC standard.

Wooooah, that's a serious accusation there. KFC chips are like the CHUDs of the fast food world.

also yeah death to those styrofoam kebab boxes. meat on chips can be wrapped in paper easily enough.

Luckily here we have American Chip Spice to make everything okay.

Another thing that ruins a kebab and seems to happen all the time is that they cut the meat off and keep it in those stainless steel heated things. So when you're walking past, and see a delicious kebab on the stick, instead of getting the lovely hot crispy meat sliced straight off the 'bone', you get a pile of limp, lukewarm grey stuff that's been sitting in its own fat all night.

I was in Belfast yesterday and it was really, really bad, shop wise. I saw only one shop that looked good enough to enter that was home grown. However I didn't enter as I was too intimidated. Primark or Sofa World doesn't have this problem.

Abdul's in Manchester used to be great chain kebab. I'd quite like to try one again, if Grimly ever gets around to organising the Great Mancunian Adventure.

there are two kebab vans in market square, the van of life and the van of death. there is gardenia's, universally known as 'gardies', on rose crescent. finally, we have city kebab on regent street, near the avery.

all of them are woeful. all of them are extremely popular.

there are two kebab vans in market square

are they strickly "kebab" vans tho? rubbish chips more like?

they do burgers and kebabs, i think, as well as the well-reknowned 'cheesy chips'. ages since i last patronised one.

*renowned, you wouldn't think i'd spent all day in britain's most literary institution would ya

"britain's most literary institution"

the garrick club?

britain's most widely-available literary institution, free-of-charge and open to all comers. i do believe you've spent a good deal of time there yourself. you must give me tips on how to use Humanities 1 as a flirting zone

haha yeah, i'm Mr Flirting Tips, that's me.

tip 1: humanities 2 has the old nmes and melody makers. a guess a certain class of broad may be attracted by these lol.

haha, well you never know...

someone i'd lived with in the same boarding-house at school for four years sat diagonally opposite me today. it took us ten minutes to recognise one another. he'd grown a (spectacular) moustache, i'd lost the specs, i guess.

Jesus christ, question answers itself...

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/alex-james/alex-james-the-great-escape-772411.html

gave a million quid to drug cartels but has an issue with cheap food.

Also this is bullshit...

If you're paying less than eight quid for a chicken

...I buy free range chickens direct from a farm shop (so free range you could - if you're not as squeamish as I - pick them out while they run around) for about 5 or 6 quid. I suppose he buys his from Daylesford fucking Organics though (so he's probably lucky to only have to pay £8).

If they haven't got any ready the man in the farmshop says "I just have to...er...process one...can you hang around for a bit?" Now, that's fresh.

I tend to assume everyone in the Cotswolds is immediately "arrr here comes that twat from Blur, get all them prices up by £3 quick!"

You don't think there is an argument that our meat is too cheap? That the price we pay in terms of actual quality is so poor because of the intensive methods

I know this threads argument is that its all very well to say we should pay more for meat but ordinary people cannot afford to do this. This is correct, but why are our diets so meat intensive? How did we arrive at the point of eating so much meat the whole time?

I posted this elsewhere, still seems pretty OTM.

(That was an xpost)

"Chickens, being birds, tend towards the extensive."

Does anyone know what this means? James also says, just a few sentences up:

"Sheep farming is quite an extensive, organic practice."

??

Argh @ comments section of Matt's link... lol Guardian readers etc

I presume he means 'you need to keep them in lots of space before you slaughter them and eat them'.

perhaps we could rear them in chop form

Extensive - Open spaces, using mainly natural resources, fed from the land few inputs like feed or drugs
Intensive - Land cannot sustain the number of livestock so lots of feed inputs etc.

xpost

But why do we need to eat meat so much?

see here
Ipso Fatso

it's just basically the same thing over again at this stage- lol i can afford to this this and it's great lol you all stupid and poor.

sorry, to be clear- that's celebrity articles/programmes on this subject, not the thread as a whole.

although possibly a little of this from some posters.

I opened two free range eggs box at the supermarket the other day and put all of those eggs in an economy box because I was morally conscious.

because heath would have wanted it that way

didn't really agree with that Rayner article due to unconvincing argument that intensive farming "saves lives" and to abolish it would be "dangerous". exaggeration much?

altho he was right re Far more important than how the chicken is raised (as far as an individual person's health goes) is the simple question of whether it ends up in the deep fat fryer at the end.

I opened two free range eggs box at the supermarket the other day and put all of those eggs in an economy box because I was morally conscious.

-- ken c, Wednesday, 23 January 2008 11:27 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Ha ha ha ha Ken

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8417544170&ref=mf

^^^^ edifying comments section

Church St is beautiful. Nandos is plain ugly. It don't fit. It's like having Jay-Z headlining Glastonbury (great idea!)

Nandos belongs in an outta town cinema complex/mall not in a urban conservation area.

send in the panzers

london gets this turned-inside-out stanbase who mistake it for a village in the cotswolds.

http://www.archives.state.al.us/govs_list/govs_gifs/george_wallace.jpg

"Church St is beautiful. Nandos is plain ugly. It don't fit. It's like having Jay-Z headlining Glastonbury (great idea!)"

http://www.natallnews.com/images/teaser/george-lincoln-rockwell.jpg

"Ive seen what Camden council have done to destroy the fabulousness that was once Camden Market, and I dont want to see the same in N16.
Most small, interesting shops and businesses like family run cake shops were shut down to make way for 2 Pret A Mangers, Hennes, mobile phone shops and naff indoor markets full of tourist tat and football shirts.
So corporate and dull..."

Just thought I'd let people know about the fact our MP is on our side!!! She's going to write to the council to register my unhappiness. Let's hear it for democracy in action!!!

i'd be over the moon too if Diane 'Incorruptible' Abbott was on my side too!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nndb.com/people/533/000114191/OMosley.JPG

"I've nothing completely overbearing against chain franchises in general, but dear Christ - anything but Nandos. Seeing as their customer base seems to consist of people whose main preoccupations in life are a) breeding Pit Bulls, b) listening to misogynist hip-hop and c) getting into fights in Wetherspoons, I don't want my beloved Stokie being dragged into the gutter."

lol at one of one of the guys there going "Yes, I got a reply from Diane Abbott too. Maybe shes not as lazy as I thought".

She's so well spoken, as well.

Too right, it seems we can't try and protect our tiny "green belt" of a street without misguided KFC-lovers claiming we are being "white and middle class." I'm a common-as-muck Irish country bumpkin

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/profile6/817/78/s634652690_3701.jpg

xpost

I heard she listens to misogynist hip-hop tho.

http://uashome.alaska.edu/~jndfg20/website/potemkin.gif

Hmm, wonder if we could get Mr Fearnley-Whittingstall involved? Not entirely sure if the pieces of chicken corpse littering our streets have ever been part of a "happy" chicken (doubt very much if they've ever been part of a chicken).

Someone find a good quote to use with a picture of Ballard Berkeley.

http://www.sitcom.co.uk/fawlty_towers/graphics/char_major.gif

"You can't get a can-opener in Tesco. That's how bollocks Tesco's are."

http://www.leninimports.com/heinrich_himmler_1.jpg

listen, i like chicken as much as the next omnivorous man.... infact, some of my best friends are chickens. but this is too much....

http://static.flickr.com/66/165090854_d19110f1ca.jpg

"Dave, come back when you have learned how to construct a sentence. Is it a coincidence that all the big Tesco fans seem to be illiterate as well?"

6 years ago there was a campaign against Fresh and Wild

wao

dunno if this is mentioned on the fb group but it does seem a bit fucked up putting a Nandos on Church St when there's one half a mile down the Kingsland Road already.

Nando's is actually a front for SWP trolling, is why.

dunno if this is mentioned on the fb group but it does seem a bit fucked up putting a Nandos on Church St when there's one half a mile down the Kingsland Road already.

-- blueski, Monday, 21 April 2008 01:20 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^SOMEONE doesn't like red pepper dip with flatbreads.

Think I can get some support for an "Open a Spearmint Rhino on Stoke Newington High Street" group?

C'mon they've already had to put up with an Oddbins on their street!

Oddbins--the off license solely patronised by pit bull owners.

Isn't there a campaign to put a massive glass dome around 'Stokey' to prevent anyone wandering in from Hackney or Tottenham?

noodle, dom and grimly very OTM on this thread.

Upper-middle London experience /= "the UK"

they've even found room for two of those world's-scuzziest-chicken-vending Nandos in Oxford.

Results 1 - 10 of about 152,000 for stokey.

from what i gather about eating out in the 70s or in MODERN DAY SUDAN, nandos is okay, in the grand scheme of things and in historical perspective. hell, i've probably even shared breathing space with people who have eaten in nandos and enjoyed it -- while on public transport perhaps, or waiting in line at the bank.

Hull now has a nandos.
http://blogs.orange.co.uk/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/17/prezza_17aug07_pa_200.jpg

http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-9529.gif

Been there. No sign of JP. Or Pit Bulls, come to think of it.

could do with some KFC now i think of it

Could go for a Nando's right now.

Worcester looks like it's to be getting a KFC, at-fucking-last.

The online networking site Facebook even has a special group called KFC in Worcester dedicated to campaigning for the firm to open an outlet in the city. The group boasts 318 members.

Marc Stuart wrote: "Worcester can't call itself a city without a KFC."

^Marc unloads a truth mega bomb right there.

JFC

Posh dirty chicken

The start of this thread is awesome. It really sorts the good from the bad and the ugly.

^^solid, substantive argument, like it.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40871000/jpg/_40871308_cleese.jpg

i mean, i know and enjoy the pork buns at the vietnamese grocery across the street and they cost like £1.10 each, and they're delicious. not sure about the "hygiene" standards there of course, they might not be quite as diligent as the 17-year-olds who clean the pizza express bathrooms

basically what i am saying, is that you are all unimaginative, lazy bastards.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:07 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^with classic shit like this, how could we compete?

RIP

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/22/casual-dining-crunch-jamies-italian-strada-byron-struggling

“I ate in the Liverpool Jamie’s two months ago and it was possibly the worst meal I’ve ever had. It was appalling. I ordered what was supposed to be sausage ragout. It looked like boiled tomatoes with overcooked pasta, and it tasted the same.”

quelle fucking surprise. His recipes are 90% garbage when you don't cut corners with them.

i'd be up for reading a full interview with this guy ranting about horrible chain restaurants.

Reaction to Tracer's original post itt pretty unfair imo.