So yeah, Britain now has a new serial killer

http://whois.sc/petertobin.com :(

there's not much to do in margate :(

http://media.canada.com/c30db847-0e28-468b-8d66-e94dc1c2a3a0/amontobin.jpg

Yet another IDM hero is revealed as a crazed killer.

"FoxyKnoxy"? ILX can do one better. Our Roxy is foxy AND from Knoxville! FoxyKnoxyRoxy!

They are now digging up the front garden, incidentally, which would be a remarkably brazen place to hide a body.

Possibly the most interesting thing about this is that Tobin may well have been Bible John, the second most notorious unsolved serial killer the UK has:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_John

lol from dailymail

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_01/knox11011_468x351.jpg
Amanda outside a cannabis shop in Amsterdam. The caption on her MySpace page reads: 'Hmmm... weed'

OMG weed

FoxyKnoxy is fucking awesome, let's just admit it.

I mean, it's sad that someone had to die so she could get true fame. Couldn't she have written for CollegeHumor.com or something?

she was probably luna :(

she is foxy though

the girl who actually died never ever gets any of her pictures on newspapers.

Missing Unattractive White Woman Syndrome

"We still don't know whether she's the murderer, meanwhile here are some pictures of her looking sexy and a YouTube video of her getting drunk, just in case she doesn't seem sinister and deviant enough".

Xpost - erm, Ken, that's not actually true though, is it?

TS:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_02/knoxkerSPLIT_468x313.jpg

FoxyKnoxy looks like she should be on an episode of Made.

Can someone explain the legalities surrounding why Tobin's current status as being in prison for life for the murder of Angelika Kluk cannot be mentioned in the press? I'm guessing it's so that he can get a fair trial now that he's been charged for the murder of Vicky Hamilton (and presumably will be charged for the murder of Dinah McNicol as well), but that info's pretty much in the public domain since it was all over the papers before, during and after that trial.

(law-abiding mods can feel free to delete this post if I'm not supposed to mention it here either)

He (Tobin) used to live in Paisley so I'm guessing there will be squads of police digging around up here as well since I've read they're going to check out all the places he used to live.

but that info's pretty much in the public domain since it was all over the papers before, during and after that trial.

From what I remember of the few media law lectures I bothered going to, it's because the case is "active". The fact that the information is in the public domain is, at this point, still contempt.

(See what I mean - Tobin is suspected of killing at least three times as many people and everyone only wants to talk about the hot murder suspect).

I figured it was something like that Dom. I know that previous history can't be mentioned in case it prejudices a trial, but the fact that they can name him so people know who he is and can therefore remember that he's in jail and what he's jail for makes the secrecy surrounding the reporting of certain aspects of the story really rather silly (yes yes, law's an ass and all that).

what about that zany prankster in suffolk last year?

I thought this would be a brag thread.

what about that zany prankster in suffolk last year?

After they found that that The Bishop dude wasn't the murderer, everyone lost interest.

britishes are still number 1

Can someone explain to non-Britisher who the heck is "FoxyKnoxy"?

xp controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_L%C3%B3pez_%28serial_killer%29

Suspect in murder case. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492092&in_page_id=1811

xpost

I was wondering about the present owners of that Margate house - I mean, if the bodies of murder victims were being found in my back garden I woudn't fel too comfortable about continuing to live there, but it would prolly be difficult to sell a property with such notoriety attached to it. I know they demolished Rose & Fred West's house (and turned it into a memorial garden?) but I wonder if there's some sort of compensation scheme for innocent owners in this sort of case?

strong showing from the columbians here

God I hate the daily mail.

It's a council house, CJ, they are being put up in a hotel prior to being rehoused.

xp

Has Private Eye had a crack at all this yet? That Daily Mail piece almost satirises itself.

that Pedro Lopez had a comfy upbringing then

OH WAIT this guy has killed 300 people, mostly young girls, but is currently a free citizen of Colombia, unimprisoned and out of the law's hands?

why is george w not on this list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_prolific_murderers_by_number_of_victims

Put him on the list, Ken!

OH WAIT this guy has killed 300 people, mostly young girls, but is currently a free citizen of Colombia, unimprisoned and out of the law's hands?

You're familiar with the idea that once your sentence ends, you're free? Or do you think murderers should be locked behind bars for the rest of their lives?

Dom OTM. The Crown Office was putting out increasingly strained warnings last week, trying to get Sky and BBC News to stop talking about it. Our lawyers were contacted by Sky, and cut a ton of prejudicial stuff from their report. When it ran, it was followed by a live interview with an expert witness ... who then said it all anyway.

The restrictions are interesting on what they think will and will not prejudice it: you can name him, but not show his picture.

I'm just amused that a crime which in most Western democracies would see you incarcerated for life, no questions asked, would fetch you a mere 14-year sentence in Colombia. This guy has murdered and presumably sexually assaulted THREE HUNDRED young girls. Such monstrosity is completely unprecedented here. I don't think murderers should necessarily be locked up for life, but this guy. This guy! The most interesting aspect is that he is free on the streets, able to kill again should he wish. Given his previous record, I wouldn't put it past him.

So it's OK for an uninvolved observer to post on a public message board about what he's done in the past?

also, Tuomas, I think if someone's systematically killed 300+ people, there's a reasonable case to be made for a life sentence meaning that you actually put someone away for the whole of the rest of their life, rather than putting someone in jail for a bit then commuting their sentence for good behaviour

xposts, obviously

So it's OK for an uninvolved observer to post on a public message board about what he's done in the past?
Well, probably not, actually. (My work's had to cut mentions of it from their forums). But I doubt ILX is going to be the test case.

Er, in most Western democracies "incarcerated for life" doesn't really mean for life - if they behave well, even murderers are usually pardoned after 12-20 years. Not that I want to defend this guy, but according to Wikipedia the "300 people" was just his own confession, it doesn't seem like there's evidence for all that. Also, it doesn't seem like the guy has been accused of breaking the law ever since he was released, so maybe he has actually reformed?

I mean, obviously he has done some terrible things, but unless you're for death penalty, I don't see what else could've been done about him, unless you want the law to be different for different people.

(xxx-post)

Gotta love this piece of damning evidence from that Daily Mail article:

"I never really liked her on a personal level. Me and a friend found her a bit brash... She talked a lot and laughed at her own jokes."

Priceless. But still not up there with the line "Yeah, he was a loner alright. Kept himself to himself most of the time." which so frequently accompanies stories of serial killers when their neighbours are talking about them.

And Louis and Ailsa very very right. There comes a point when you really should be throwing away the key.

Most serial killers are thrown in jail for ever and ever amen regardless of how good they are. Ian Huntley ain't ever getting out and he killed TWO young girls. This guy killed THREE HUNDRED and he got his sentence reduced! Gah, maybe he is reformed. Maybe he no longer poses a threat. But there seem to be disparities between the Colombian system and our own that don't really scan.

Put him on the list, Ken!

done!

how long will it stay there do we fink?

12 minutes

I would say it's a safe guess that, there may, just perhaps, be some tiny differences between the justice system in Colombia and the UK.

Matt: Yeah, I know. Country funded by crime soft on crime shocka.

maybe they just think 300+ victims is small fries compared with 794619

I mean, obviously he has done some terrible things, but unless you're for death penalty, I don't see what else could've been done about him, unless you want the law to be different for different people

Laying to one side the total fucking understatement of the century, what could've been done is locking him up and not letting him out. A country whose legal system says "kill lots of people if you want, it's OK, you'll be out in 16 years tops" isn't one I'd be terribly comfortable putting my trust in.

xposts

also, stet, feel free to delete or googleproof my mention of Tobin's previous up there if you want.

sounds like political correctness gone mad to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_L%C3%B3pez_%28serial_killer%29

wow, that is some biography. Not surprising that he has a f*cked up idea about stuff. I don't see how he could ever be declared sane, he should be in an institution for the rest of his life, but not jail.

It seems Colombian legislation allows only for the maximum of 16 years of imprisonment, no matter what you've done. While I agree that it is a very light punishment such a deed, I think the alternative system, where you can actually put people behind bars for the rest of their lives, can easily lead to a situation where those who could actually reform aren't given the chance. You have to realize that this is an extremely rare exception, and I don't think the law should be based on exceptions, otherwise eploiting it would be too easy.

(xxx-post)

A country whose legal system says "kill lots of people if you want, it's OK, you'll be out in 16 years tops" isn't one I'd be terribly comfortable putting my trust in.

Do you really believe that if the Colombian law would've allowed for a longer sentence, or even a death sentence, that this wouldn't have happened? Most serial killers are totally fucked up in their heads, I don't think they give a shit about what sort of sentence they might get if they're caught.

who was it here that swapped Alexis Petridis' name for Harold Shipman's on that list?

lol a little

(xx-post)

Stan OTM, it's hard to believe this guy could ever be declared legally sane.

Tuomas, I think people would murder people, jail not being much of a deterrent to people who are determined to go and serially kill other people, but if it reduces the likelihood of them *continuing* doing it, then yeah, I'm all for it. Otherwise, fuck it, why even *have* a legal system?

lol petridish!

(I'm all for rehabilitation of offenders where appropriate, btw, but even liberal old you must see that killing hundreds of people over a period of time doesn't bode well for future re-integration into society. Would you have let, say, Harold Shipman out?)

I think everyone here agrees that killing 300 people should give you a longer sentence than 16 years, Ailsa.

Except fake-Tuomas.

at least 18

I think it's unfair to put the mafia guy on the list of serial killers as it was his career, after all.

someone fixed petridish but left george w intact

Incidentally P3tr1d1s's Wikipedia hacks have a faster react time than Bush's. Impressive.

He knows what's going on.

Except fake-Tuomas.

I never said that! I just said that if life sentences can be as long as the authorities want, then that can give too much power authorities; a highly conservative government who doesn't believe in rehabilitation could decide to keep all of them in for the rest of their lives. I think there should be general rule for a maximum number of years you can get, and only in extreme cases (which this no doubt is) could the sentence be extended - and politicians shouldn't be able to influence these decisions in any way.

yawn

this thread needs more

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_01/FoxyKnoxMachDM_468x436.jpg

"Come on and hit me with your best shot"

not sure about those earrings tho

dubya is gone :\

lol he looks like a monkey lol

but Elizabeth Bathory, wow

:D

i wonder when they'll get round to making a john christie doll

That list seems a bit out of date.

yeah no one's added 'hen fap' to it yet

more cheery news

I know this thread died, but I just want to point out to Tuomas that to incarcerate a prolific serial killer for *actual* life one does not have to give judges the ability to make a single life-sentence as long as they like. Setting upper and lower limits on the singular sentence is a different matter to setting limits on the sentence as a whole. If someone is charged for 300 murders, then even if the lower sentence is a year, they are still put away for 300 years. Most serial killers get nowhere near that number of kills, and are usually not found guilty or even charged for all of their crimes, so they would probably not serve a life-means-life sentence, leaving room for rehabilitation even if the lower sentence is, say 12 years.

Um, no. Many jurisdictions have legal limitations on incarceration length that make the sentence given by the judge irrelevant. The train bombers in Spain, for example, were sentenced to up to 40,000 years each -- legally, they cannot be held longer than 40.

I've heard of criminals sentenced to life, and then serving just 3 years.

legal system is wacko man.

RANDOM ILXORS CALL FOR RETURN OF THE BIRCH SHOCKAH

Um, no. Many jurisdictions blahblahblah

What I was pointing out to Tuomas was a method of sentencing that meant one could be imprisoned for life without judges having complete control over the length of a life-sentence. What you are pointing out to me is 'many jurisdictions blahblahblah'. How is this relevant?

We need a Mary Bell thread, bitch scares the shit out of me still.

I think you'd be safe Dom she was only any good at taking on toddlers.

really?

(what am I saying!) xpost

I quite like to think that the identity she was given after being released from prison has been succesful for her, and that's she's actually, I dunno, Caroline Quentin.

Let's speculate!

Caitlin Moran.

Polly Toynbee

Penny Smith

Masonic Boom

Ruth Kelly

Elizabeth, of Firth.

POLL

I've heard of criminals sentenced to life, and then serving just 3 years.

legal system is wacko man.

-- Ste, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 09:30 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

Link?

no this was in my local rag

Julie Birchill.

Sorry Ste, but your post sounds like one of those right-wing "criminals are treated too softly" sermons, if you can't even provide proof of that.

Put him on the list, Ken!

done!

-- ken c, Monday, 19 November 2007 13:34 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Most_prolific_murderers_by_number_of_victims&oldid=172483592

You should have put him further down the list, he would have been on there longer! I know, it wouldn't have made sense then...

tobin was released ridic early.

http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/search/display.var.1819308.0.teen_killers_could_be_released_in_three_years.php

correct me if i'm wrong but parading a dead body around in your car, doesn't show that they were intent on killing ? hmmm.

and stuff you Tuomas, btw.

So that's about a life sentence being overturned. And three years would be when one of them is eligible for parole. And most importantly, it refers to children.

I think the alternative system, where you can actually put people behind bars for the rest of their lives, can easily lead to a situation where those who could actually reform aren't given the chance. You have to realize that this is an extremely rare exception, and I don't think the law should be based on exceptions, otherwise eploiting it would be too easy.

i'm basically against jail time for property crime, but these are murky waters. i don't get how "not killing more people" can be equated with "reform". but if that isn't reform, what is? with the people ste linked to, i guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. perhaps these 'children' will be fine upstanding adults.

Ste - they haven't actually been released, and very possibly won't be within three years. That article is scaremongering, basically.

Also, according to the article:

Before release, they will have to persuade the Parole Board they pose no serious danger to the public.

In Finland at least "eligible for parole" doesn't mean you get released, many criminals will sit in the prison years after that, if they aren't considered fitting for rehabilitation. So that article title deinitely sounds like right-wing scaremongering.

(xx-post)

yeah you're probly right. I hate myself for being sucked into newspaper headlines like this.

When I read this for the first time it was on the same day i read about the suicide internet bullying on ilx, and another similar story in another newspaper about gang related murdering. My whole day was fucking ruined and I felt shitty.

Someone start a thread with good news stories please.

(incidentally, this was the other article i read on the same day

(sorry for thread hijack, carry on)

You can hardly be blamed for the crappy journalism! Journo clearly trying to get a bit of scandal over what looks to me like a sensible ruling by the new judge. As I understand it these (relatively) new indeterminate sentences makes them less likely to be released in 3 years.

in england eligible for parole usually does mean you go, mainly because of overcrowding in jails -- the jail population is constantly reaching capacity.

Before release, they will have to persuade the Parole Board they pose no serious danger to the public.

fuck off with your "unless you put your trust in the parole board you must be right-wing" stuff. tobin is an object lesson in how these things really go down. i don't think the parole board are softies: they just have a lot of pressure on them not to keep people in.

if prematurely releasing very bad and dangerous men is "left-wing" in your book, then... your book... is shit.

in england eligible for parole usually does mean you go

This may be true but not in the case of violent offenders. A parole board is not going to release a violent offender just because of overcrowding.

Er, no one suggested that. Obviously parole boards should not be pressured to release people that are obviously dangerous, and if the reason for that is overcrowding, then it might worthy to consider what crimes should be punished with jail in the first place. (Also, put some more effort into preventing people becoming criminals in the first place.)

(x-post)

"it was on the same day i read about the suicide internet bullying on ilx"

:o :) :D

Uh...

"suicide internet bullying on ilx" = lol.

only a matter of time

and gone again

I hate to disappoint you, but we're talking about a thread about people unnconnected to ILX or anyone here.

So you say.

how do people get onto correcting wikipedia so quickly?

i say "correcting" i mean "imposing their version of 'truth' of non-occurence of murder"

Justice for the Farringdon One.

Oh you were talking about Bush.

was 'hen fap' the world's worst serial killer again?

http://image.guardian.co.uk/artsblog/authorpics/alexis_petridis.jpg

"Mission accomplished"

Hi, emily. It is relevant because the limits I talked about are often constitutional, and not stuff that you can just change. Also you are dumb and rude.

Five and counting

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54167000/jpg/_54167904_rebecca_leighton.jpg

crazy inside that skull

glad there's no need for trials anymore, i think this is progress

according to the Mirror she helps organise a regular darts tournament at the Star & Garter in Manchester, which I'm pretty sure makes her Britain's most indie serial killer of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQ6kbSfvUU

Is that her?

beth ditto?

glad there's no need for trials anymore, i think this is progress

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one thinking this was a bit too "open and shut".

Put it this way, how much of the evidence actually confirms it to be her, as opposed to someone who could plant it?

Dunno. I'm not saying I'm assuming her to be innocent, but ...

Well, I didn't actually say she was the killer, unless it's the work of more than one person, which would be pretty odd, we can assume that it's the work of a serial killer

Or an accident, or she didn't mean to kill them, or...

Someone didn't mean to kill them you mean

Someone did something, I think we can all agree on that.

Seems extremely unlikely to have been a mistake to make however

... oops... well you know what I mean

it's just good to see that the fiasco w/that landlord guy last year has taught the press to have some restraint <-irony

It's the saline stocks that were contaminated w/insulin, right? As long as you don't mind being a hands-off killer, it's a very convenient way to kill a large number of ppl and remain uncaught.

Charged with six counts of criminal damage with intent to endanger life. So not murder then?

holding charge maybe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14769486

Well!

Of course, guilty until actually proven innocent, of course. As opposed to "dropping the case on technical grounds", which could mean anything.

Still suspicious of her mental health.

.. and that's the best she can reasonably expect from the public at large, I would say...

I thought this revive was going to be about Tobin as I saw a news stand with a "body found at Tobin church" poster today. Turns out there are no suspicious circumstances.