Not a footballer in sight

That only 36 Englishmen can be found playing in the Premiership most Saturdays?

We're shit and we know we are

I thought this was a thread about England's performance against Croatia.

That it's a team sport, and no individuals from any number of underachieving teams did anything exceptional this year.

Next!

So who so you think will be SPOZ then?

That between 1966 and 1990 only one footballer won the trophy because it's voted for by a middle class populace who vote for random members of the royal family?

I think it will be Lewis Hamilton. I think it should be Joe Calzaghe.

Calzaghe should win it - he won't. What is that lying cheat Christine Ohuruogu doing on it??!?!?

If Hatton beats Mayweather, he should win it

... he won't beat him tho

no cricket players either.

SHOCKER

I think it'll be Hamilton, and probably by a landslide. I think it ought to be Calzaghe or Hatton, or maybe the motorbike guy who is also actually a World Champion.

Ohurogua's inclusion is... interesting. Possibly a PR move by the BBC.

if either of them had qualified for euro 2008 i'd have given it to Healy or McFadden, if not Calz.

Also, what's with inclusion of Andy Murray rather than his brother who actually WON a Wimbledon title?

Hatton won't win because the voting will have been going on too long before his fight and not long enough after it to swing in his favour if he wins (which he might).

No snooker players ever win it any more. It used to be all about the snooker, didn't it?

The BBC is overrun by UK Athletics insiders - Brendan Fuckin' Foster and Steve Cram and the rest. That would explain the inclusion of a cheat. Somewhat of a conflict of interests going on methinks.

Steve Interesting Davis is the only snooker player to have won it. I thought Dennis Taylor won it.

x-post

"a cheat"? seriously still buying the Sun's "don't let this be the facce of the Olympics" line?

and lest we forget, she won a world championship gold medal. fucking right she should be on the list.

The shortlist isn't created by the Beeb themselves, each major British newspaper, plus Nuts and Zoo, put forward a list of ten candidates, the lists are then amalgamated and a top 10 is created thus.

Here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/sports_personality_of_the_year/7096040.stm

"a cheat"? seriously still buying the Sun's "don't let this be the facce of the Olympics" line?

Yes.

3 Scottish winners, 2 Irish, 2 Welsh (last one in 1960!), 45 English

How many millions of Welsh, Irish and Scottish people are there in the UK? Is that a reasonably proportional breakdown?

No

England: 50,690,000
Scotland: 5,116,900
Wales: 2,980,700
Norn Iron: 1,700,000

Hmmm, yes, it's not bad I suppose

Tom, I don't by any means think you're an idiot, but your view of Christine Ohuruogu strikes me as a fairly idiotic position to take.

Not convicted of anything, served her suspension anyway, passed 14 drug tests etc etc. Why isn't she worthy of inclusion?

Totally agree with you about the lack of representation of the Scots the Irish and the Welsh btw.

Perfect statistical breakdown would be:

England 44
Scotland 4
Wales 3
Norn Iron 1

Not one gay winner ever either. Especially not in 1999.

So that's pretty fucking close.

Ohuruogu is a serious bone of contention whichever way you look at it; I'm entirely glad for her to go to the Olympics, and as a World Champ she ought to be included in the shortlist, BUT, as a controversial figure it smacks of the BBC pimping the awards a bit by picking her, because of the brigade who are likely to be up in arms about it, if nothing else.

Tom, I don't by any means think you're an idiot, but your view of Christine Ohuruogu strikes me as a fairly idiotic position to take.

Maybe it is idiotic, fair enough. Call it a hunch. Which I had LONG before she was actually banned.

Not one gay winner ever either. Especially not in 1999.

What, Virginia Wade didn't win it?

Interestingly the German Sports Personality Award seems to never go to a footballer.

John Curry! (xp)

x-post

so she should have been taken out of the running because she's been involved in some controversy? Is there actually any evidence that she's ever taken any performing enhancing substances?

The people who are up in arms about it can naff off, seriously. Gold Medal in World Championships (our only one) trumps all else.

I agree; all I'm saying is that include her, people whinge. Don't include her, people whinge.

Roger Stanislaus never got nominated.

it's true, people whinge. ilx would be a very desolate place if they didn't.

Calzaghe for me. hopefully he'll come out before Sunday and make the Welsh gays happy.

I'm surprised by Steve Davis being the only snooker winner. I was sure Stephen Hendry had won it once too. They aren't very big on darts either, are they? Would've thought Phil Taylor must have been worth a shout at least once during his total domination of the game, if one-game-wonders like Flintoff, Owen, Wilkinson etc can win it.

3 Scottish winners, 2 Irish, 2 Welsh (last one in 1960!), 45 English

Wrong. It's 3 Scottish winners, 2 Irish, 2 Welsh (last one in 1960!), 44 English, 1 Canadian.

Nigel Mansell and Damon Hill have both won it twice!

OUR NIGE is immortal so that's alright. And let's not forget he used to live on the Isle of Man.

I dare someone at the BBC to put up the caption "jokes, bruv, jokes" if they show any footage of the England team.

Somewhat amazing that Tony Jacklin never won it. While Henry Cooper won it twice.

my ranking for this year:

1) hamilton (sure he stumbled at the last but he's the best debutant in F1 history)
2) calzaghe
3) higgins
4) hatton

hatton leaps 3 places if he wins

no cricketers/footballers is correct (ramprakash maybe?), but you can ignore me because i am snooker loopy :D

Hamilton shouldn't get it cos it's inevitable that he will when he actually wins the championship. Formula one drivers need to stop being rewarded for second place.

but he deserves it this year too, because no-one else really does. unless hatton wins.

a case can be made for calzaghe.

do they not still do a separate Young/Best Newcomer award? LH could have it. What about Team Of The Year? Croatia!

Scotland!

double-winners Sussex?

I make the case for Calzaghe. even though I am not that fussed about either boxing or Wales. i have been brow-beaten by the whingers though, and sorta think that winning 23 out of 23 world title bouts over his career is enough to warrant a stoopid silver camera.

Team of year is going to be England Rugby, innit, with a sympathy nod to plucky little Scotland.

It doesn't matter that Calzaghe is Welsh, does it?

I mean, a vote for Calzaghe is not a vote for Wales or anything, is it.

There's hasn't been a Welsh winner for 47 years!

not even Vinnie Jones

no, all i'm saying is I don't think he should win simply because he's Welsh but that he's totally deserving because he's clearly helluh good at boxing.

x-post to Ailsa

I don't think Ricky Hatton should win simply because he's English but that he's totally deserving because he's clearly helluh good at boxing.

(note, I don't necessarily believe this, but do feel Calzaghe's Welshness isn't terribly defining of him. On the other hand, I'm fairly sure there'll be a few Englisher not voting for Andy Murray due to kneejerk hatred as a result of him saying he was supporting anyone that wasn't England in the World Cup last year)

I don't necessarily believe this, but do feel Calzaghe's Welshness isn't terribly defining of him

Him waving around the Italian flag at fights might have something to do with this

Not convicted of anything, served her suspension anyway, passed 14 drug tests etc etc

Yeah it was good of her to pass the tests she turned up for isn't it? And there's no way she'd miss a test if she was going to fail it eh?

"I forgot, I R scatterbrained" works occasionally (hi Rio!) but when you know your third scatterbrained mistake could cost you your entire career you don't miss that test unless you've got a very good reason. You'd have every possible reminder on Earth in place to make sure you got to that test.

Calzaghe should win this, but won't.

We're shit and we know we are

-- blueski, Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:42 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Just a thought. Idea: Let's record this to the tune of "Go West" for the Euro Championship forthcoming, and make it the official anthem!

Yeah!

Just off to think this through...

take your time

"I forgot, I R scatterbrained" works occasionally (hi Rio!) but when you know your third scatterbrained mistake could cost you your entire career you don't miss that test unless you've got a very good reason. You'd have every possible reminder on Earth in place to make sure you got to that test.

As I understand it it's really not as simple as being booked in for a test and then turning up for it or not.

The athletes have to give the testing body a location where they are guaranteed to be on one specific hour each day of the week so the testers can drop in without warning. Ohuruogu gave the regular track where she trained (can't remember exactly where it was, Lewisham or somwhere). On the day of the third test a school sports day had been given priority so she had to go and train somewhere else. She subsequently received a phone call saying "get here within an hour or it's another missed test". She was apparently an hour and a half away, so couldn't make it.

Didn't Rio just drive off after training and not come back? Hardly the Greek sprinter conspiracy is it?

He drove off after training and allegedly phoned alleged clinics who would allegedly maybe know how long an alleged substance would maybe stay in someone's body for.

sorry, i meant that Ohuruogu shouldn't be compared to Kenteris and Thanou. not should she be to Ferdinand.

From what i understand, as you said, his missed test was far sneakier. never any question of him not playing for England in the European championships after he'd completed his ban though was there?

And what about the other two tests she missed?

SURELY RIO FERDINAND DOESN'T DO COCAINE

Rio only "sneakily" missed one after all

And allegedly changed his story along with alleged club doctors on several alleged occasions.

There are solid reasons why missing a test ought to be treated like failing a test.

Tom perhaps you should find out for yourself the details of Ohuruogu's missed tests before you get all Daily Mail about it. As I understand it, the second missed test was one where she didn't even try to get to the tester because she thought it would take too long, which seems lackadaisical at best.

Yes, but people were suspicious of her beforehand, I certainly was and I'm not even involved in athletics... so shouldn't she have been trying a bit harder?

Noodle, of course there are. and no-one made any fuss about her being banned for a year, said it's unfair or anything because of course, demz da rulez and everyone accepts them. but if it doesn't rule her out from running in the Olympics it shouldn't rule her out of contention for the fucking BBC prize, particularly when she's one of the few British athletes to achieve anything this year.

and "sneakier" was, i admit, a poor choice of word.

she didn't even try to get to the tester because she thought it would take too long, which seems lackadaisical at best.

Are you serious?

Yup. What's your point?

As in, "lackadaisical is the most generous assessment" in case that wasn't clear.

So you're saying that, at best, she was lackadaisical? Cos it is a "the dog ate my homework" bullshit kind of an excuse. It's just that you seemed to be disagreeing with Tom's assessment that she's a cheat.

She is a cheat, she broke the rules and got banned, that makes her a cheat. It doesn't confirm that she took performance enhancing drugs, but she's still a cheat.

I am trying to figure out if non-wilful rule breaking makes you a cheat. What about a striker caught offside? Does that make them a cheat? I'm not comfortable with your assertion, because unless we accept there was intention to miss the tests, then I don't think it's the right word.

Situations will often arise where it's impossible to prove whether somebody behaved wilfully, but having missed 3 tests and given at least one weak excuse, I'm comfortable with calling that cheating.

It's not like drug tests in athletics are these minor administrative details that are usually uncontroversial and easy to forget about.

And I'm happy to give her the benefit of the doubt about the motives behind the mistakes she made and were punished for.

Noodle, do you understand how they work? You tell them where you are at any point in time; they turn up unannounced. You can't forget about them because YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE.

Fair point Mark, but if I was one of her competitors I wouldn't be happy to be racing someone that wasn't complying with a testing regime that the rest of us were sticking to, wilfully or otherwise.

You tell them where you are at any point in time; they turn up unannounced. You can't forget about them because YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE.

Yes, then if where you are changes you let them know. I'm sure she's not the only athlete who's had to change a training schedule.

she didn't "forget" about the test though. the whole point is that these things aren't booked in advance.

x-post concurring with Mark

Fair point Mark, but if I was one of her competitors I wouldn't be happy to be racing someone that wasn't complying with a testing regime that the rest of us were sticking to, wilfully or otherwise.

Especially when she's waddling about with thighs like barrage balloons and biceps like King Kong

Anyway, she's not going to win. This thread should be all about the injustice of a losing tax-evading traitor robbing genuine World Champions of a pointless award.

Perhaps they should build some leeway into this draconian system. Like, say, allowing you to miss a couple of tests before they decide you're cheating.

from what i understand most athletes give the time and place as being early in the morning when they're still at home. that way there's almost no way of them missing a test.

I'm with Onimo here - I don't know whether she took drugs or not, but if you're in athletics being available for a test is part of your life. All competitors know the rules and they have to comply. All they need to do is plan ahead a bit and use the bloody phone if plans change. She should have phoned the testers the instant that the training venue changed from Mile End to Crystal Palace. Simple.

Mile End to Crystal Palace is never over an hour.

Maybe she ran it

Mind you, she was so pumped full of drugs it would only have taken her 15 minutes

Mile End to Crystal Palace is never over an hour.

well, We never managed Waltahmstow to Crystal Palace in less than an hour and ten minutes (and that was on Boxing Day at 8AM)

So then, Please to be showing your proof of Ohorugu being a drugs cheat people who are calling her one.

FWIW Mark Lewis-Francis has missed 2 tests due to his laziness/dumbness (and a non-working doorbell apparently) is he a cheat? or just a bit of a cheat, and will be a complete cheat only once he's failed 3?

Tom, onimo, seriously, considering you're calling her a cheat at least get some of your facts right? The Mile End/Crystal Palace cock-up was the third missed test, the hour-and-a-half issue was an earlier one.

and michelle smith never failed a drugs test either, while we're at it.

So what was the Mile End/Crystal Palace cock-up? Why couldn't she get there for the test? What were the two locations of the hour and a half issue?

I didn't call her a drug cheat, I called her a cheat. She was competing in events while not complying with the drug enforcement rules. That is why she was banned. Are you all saying she was banned for nothing, or that she shouldn't have been banned at all?

Perhaps they should build some leeway into this draconian system. Like, say, allowing you to miss a couple of tests before they decide you're cheating.

-- Noodle Vague

otm

But only if you're British and seem like a really nice girl

FWIW Mark Lewis-Francis has missed 2 tests due to his laziness/dumbness (and a non-working doorbell apparently) is he a cheat? or just a bit of a cheat, and will be a complete cheat only once he's failed 3?

So would it be ok to call Ohuruogu a cheat if she missed 4? 8? 10? 20?
How scatterbrained and disorganised is this girl? Maybe we should cut her some slack and not expect her to comply with the same rules as every other athlete in the country. That would be fair.

If Mark Lewis-Francis misses a third test he should be banned for breaking drug testing rules same as Ohuruogu was.

Aaaargh! Plz come back to this thread when you have proof that missing three drugs test was a cynical attempt to defraud the system rather than her being scatterbrained and disorganised. She's been punished for her crime, it's over.

Observer Sport Monthly article

Worth reading for anyone with any kind of opinion on the subject.

The word "cheat" totally implies intent to deceive and I don't think anyone - certainly no-one here - is in a position to make that judgement.

Either way she served her suspension, won a World championship Gold Medal, had her olympics ban overturned and has never been found guilty of any other doping offence. So, to return to the subject of this thread, and to repeat myself, remind me again why she shouldn't be in a list that includes one rugby player that was injured for most of the world cup and another who missed more kicks than he scored.

She won't win anyway.

The Observer magazine shows that she has a half-decent PR person, that's all.

Asking for proof that she was a drugs cheat is as silly as asking for proof that she wasn't. We don't know. We have the evidence on one side that she missed three tests, and on the other side that she's a nice, scatterbrained girl (with a decent PR team). She could as likely as not be a nice scatterbrained drugs cheat.

Fairly important for UK Athletics, with Olympics coming up in 2008 + 2012, that our ONE World Champion gets as much favourable press as possible, don't you think?

if she wasn't winning gold medals at world championships, would she be less or more likely to be a drugs cheat?

Also, who am I to imply that there is hardly any serious critical coverage of athletics in the British media and what there is is dominated by former athletes and coaches and administrators with a vested interest in keep everything nice and rosy and secretive.

That's when it's refreshing when somebody like Michael Johnson comes over and says, basically, "You guys are shit because, frankly, you're lazy and pleased with yourself"

Absolutely. Same for football.

Asking for proof that she was a drugs cheat is as silly as asking for proof that she wasn't. We don't know.

Pretty much my point right there. But given that no-one, anywhere, in the world of athletics and on the anti-doping committees and panels, have actually said she is a cheat, who the hell are we to think that a bunch sanctimonious, ill-informed moralisers in the media (and on this board), know more about it? Criticism is fine, questioning her judgement is important, but calling someone a cheat is pretty harsh when you don't have much basis for it.

Why do you expect the 'world of athletics' etc to KNOW whether she's a cheat?

So would it be ok to call Ohuruogu a cheat if she missed 4? 8? 10? 20?

I'd like an answer to this from anyone who thinks I'm wrong to call her a cheat for not complying with the same rules as everyone else.

Can we call Lewis Hamilton a cheat or do we have to wait until there's a Ferrari badge on his Mercedes?

Dr. C, I didn't particularly mean other athletes, pundits etc, but the people who work for the bodies governing doping in the UK and in international athletics. Who, btw, said this at the time:

The independent disciplinary committee which heard her case released a statement saying that Ohuruogu "had no intention of infringing the anti-doping rules".

It said: "This is undoubtedly a very harsh sanction for the minor degree of fault attributed to a young athlete."

But John Scott, UK Sport's director of drug-free sport, defended Ohuruogu's punishment.

He said: "The sanction is in line with that set out within the IAAF's rules and reflects the seriousness of the offence.

"It sends out a strong signal to all athletes that making themselves available for testing is a key requirement on them, and they must ensure they deliver on their responsibilities.

"In many ways, this case has already proved to be a much needed wake-up call for athletes across all sports."

Ohuruogu, given a provisional ban by UK Athletics in August, faced the independent hearing on Monday.

UK Athletics' chief executive David Moorcroft said: "For any anti-doping rule violation, UK Athletics appoints an independent disciplinary committee to consider the facts of the case in the context of the rules of our sport.

"We operate within a very stringent regime and accept the decision the independent disciplinary committee has made."

No disagreement with any of that.

I don't see why anyone feels the need to call her a cheat at all. You're in no position to know her intent so why can't you just accept that she served the crime for which she admitted culpability and leave it at that without the moralising?

who thinks she's a drugs cheat? Poll.

Two tests ok... but three? Come on!

http://bluechampions.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/graham_poll.jpg

You have to intend to cheat. Full stop.

Asking for proof that she was a drugs cheat is as silly as asking for proof that she wasn't

I hope I never get you on a jury if I'm in the dock, Doc!

Man, British people really DO hate people who succeed. You guys are so depressing.

xpost to Darraghmac: "Cheat" is not the same as "drugs cheat"...

I don't see why anyone feels the need to call her a cheat at all. You're in no position to know her intent so why can't you just accept that she served the crime for which she admitted culpability and leave it at that without the moralising?

...regardless of whether she's been punished for it or not. Why should the end of her punishment for not sticking to the rules stop people calling her a cheat for her actions (or lack of) before the punishment was dished out? (btw, dictionary.com gives this as a definition of to cheat: 5. to violate rules or regulations which she did, didn't she, by not being available for a drugs test, one of the rules for athletes of her standard?)

Succeed in getting away with cheating you mean? (xp)

Okay, can anyone who's going to accuse her of cheating please include Ailsa's dictionary definition so we know what kind of cheating you're referring to, thx.

You're in no position to know her intent

Nor are you.

I never said she was a cheat and I agree that the word implies intent. Nor do I think she's necessarily taken drugs- I simply don't know - I just find it surprising how many people automatically believe her story in the context of a sport riddled with drugs.

Man, British people really DO hate people who succeed.

esp. Maradona

Innocent until proven guilty, Doc.

my real world paperback dictionary provides the definition of "to cheat" as:

1. to deceive
2. to act dishonestly to gain an advantage

Not saying it's anymore right cos I can hold it in my hand but it backs me up moore than goddam dictionary.com does.

I was cheating on the motorway the other day, got up to 75mph! BAN MARK C

I just find it surprising how many people automatically believe her story in the context of a sport riddled with drugs.

World Championship Gold Medal. Olympics next year.

I don't hate people who succeed. I want World Champion Joe Calzaghe or World Champion Ricky Hatton to get this pointless award which I won't even watch and I won't really give a shit if Ohuruogu gets it (which she won't). All I'm saying is that the rules are in place to protect athletes and maintain a level playing field and she broke the rules while her peers didn't.

Would it help if I stopped calling her a cheat and started calling her an athlete who was chucking out personal bests while possibly unintentionally we'll never know missing three drug tests in less than a year and who received a life-time ban for breaking drug testing rules and to be fair the South Circular is murder that time in the morning?

Mark, if you'd have been caught, then, yes, you'd have been punished for it. Because it's a rule of driving, and you broke it. I didn't say it was the only definition of cheating, just one of them, and appropriate to why I personally would consider her to have cheated. I'm not saying she's a drug cheat or anything, I'm saying *I* think that it's fairly obvious she broke the rules as they stand.

xpost

Yes, but Mark - doping controls kind of work the other way round i.e. you're possibly guilty until you prove yourself innocent (by taking a drugs test). Which she didn't always do.

But did you intend to get up to 75 mph? (Let's not talk about breaking the speed limit - I received a very stern warning from the cops the other week.

ailsa i agree with you! i wouldn't refer to her as a 'drugs cheat', but this:

Would it help if I stopped calling her a cheat and started calling her an athlete who was chucking out personal bests while possibly unintentionally we'll never know missing three drug tests in less than a year and who received a life-time ban for breaking drug testing rules

pretty much covers it. reasonable doubt gotta come into it, and consistently breaking the rules of the sport/association is as good a definition as 'cheating' as anything else.

i was just wondering how many people

(i) think she's a drugs cheat and using the rules was the best way to punish her
(ii) doesn't think she's a drugs cheat, just unlucky/dithery
(iiI) doesn't think missing the tests counts as cheating in itself.

(iv) Think she was rightly punished for missing the tests but that we're in position to judge whether or not she actually cheated.

Also the fact that her physique was looking rather, uhhhhhhhh, pumped during this period. Remember this is about the same time that highly-respected and well-liked British athlete Dwayne Chambers went away one season and came back the next, having been apparently inflated by an air pump, and we all know what happened to him

* we're in "no" position

(iv) Think she was rightly punished for missing the tests but that we're in position to judge whether or not she actually cheated.

Gerry, yes, I think it would help, ta.

but missing the tests *is* cheating! It's breaking the rules! No-one's saying she took drugs, are they, just that she has been given ample opportunity to prove she didn't (as per the rules of competitive athletics) and, for whatever reason - it doesn't matter what that reason was - failed to do so.

xposts

(iv) Think she was rightly punished for missing the tests but that we're in position to judge whether or not she actually cheated.

-- Upt0eleven, 07 December 2007 13:15 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

so, that would be a simple 'no' to (iii), then?

How about I cheated when I knifed that hobo? Y'all are using the word cheat well aware of its deceitful implications whether or not Ailsa's handy dictionary definition gives you the green light. Either call her a full-on drugs cheat (oh, Tom has, fair enough) or call it a day.

Intent is a factor that should be (and was) used in mitigation but I can't help thinking that once you're on your third strike you should break a neck* to make sure you don't miss a test.

*this is apparently a stock phrase in sports broadcasting

Look, *in a sporting context*, breaking the rules is cheating.

If you define cheating as being simply "breaking the rules" then absolutely, she cheated. i just see it as slightly more complicated. refer to Mark's post about being caught offside upthread.

Either call her a full-on drugs cheat (oh, Tom has, fair enough)

I didn't but I reserve the right to be suspicious without being called "moralistic"

so uh, anyone voting for Jason Robinson then?

Also I have difficulty swallowing that, "Oh I'm such a scatterbrain" line

If it was known that being caught offside was the sort of rule-break that could see you removed from competitive sport for asignificant period, I'm guessing people would be more careful not to do it. You saying she had NO IDEA of the implications of her lack of action?

xpost again

Really? Out of thousands of athletes who have to deal with these tests I am amazed only a handful have forgotten/made a mistake etc.*

*"etc." to include pumping yrself full of roids and hiding from the authorities

If I was on two strikes I'd be incredibly careful not to get a third, but it would only take one slip-up, one moment of stress or surprise at the key moment, to make this terrible mistake. Think of all the unforeseen things that can make a firm idea go straight out of your head, even stubbing your toe or remembering you've left the iron on.

Now you're just being silly

I'm not though!

Maybe I'm some kind of spaz, but I can set off down the stairs with some terribly important task in mind and by the time I get to the bottom of the stairs I see the rubbish needs taking out, so I take out the rubbish and go about my day having completely forgotten about the original terribly important task.

Actually the more I type the more I think that yes, I am a spaz. But maybe she's a spaz too?

If it was known that being caught offside was the sort of rule-break that could see you removed from competitive sport for asignificant period, I'm guessing people would be more careful not to do it.

Sure it would happen a lot less, but it would still happen. And of course she knew the implications of her actions at the time but were they foremost in her mind when she had to change her training plans? Fucked if I know.

We can have no idea what she was thinking - of course one is right to be suspicious, but suspicion alone is not enough to therefore draw such a damning conclusion - so to condemn her as a cheat seems completely unjust.

Surely you mean SPOZ? (xp)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44266000/gif/_44266429_spoty2007_203.gif

(Don't) Putting Spaz

No cricketer? Also, Jason Robinson = douche bag.

http://www.rfu.com/images/News/P_JasonRobinson.jpg

This man has no qualms about date raping your sister. You heard it hear first.

no cricketer because england lost a home series against india, got DESTROYED in the ashes, and failed miserably in both one-day world cups.

like i say, if we're recognising domestic achievement, ramprakash is obviously a contender, but since when has county cricket been a major calling-card at the SPOTY awards?

Ramprakash is A WINNER (at dancing, though, which doesn't really count)

What do people think of Kieren Fallon?

Over the course of my life, Kieron Fallon has cost me more money than National Insurance

The court says he's not even answerable to any charges so what's your point Mr C?

Altho in all honesty there is a level of "cheating" that is a constant in horse racing, but it's about trainers avoiding handicaps rather than conspiracy to defraud mug punters.

Noodle, my point is there are possibly more reasons to be "suspicious" that Fallon "cheated" (and when we're talking about race fixing there are no issues with dictionary definitons) but do you think he's completely clean because a judge has found there's no case?

I kind of think what I said: trainers tell jockeys not to let horses win by 20 lengths, which is dishonest in a way, but it's a very different thing to throwing races.

There's no point at which I'm morally outraged that cheating takes place in sport, I just don't want to sentimentally pretend somebody hasn't cheated.

Leeeeeeeewis

http://www.slantsix.org/articles/choke-adjust/choke-links.jpg

Fucking 7-1 on at Paddy Power.

If the Americans insist on knocking our great white hopes out, can they at least lend us some non-shitty sportsmen so Hamilton doesn't win this?

Team of the Year is the England rugby team. Dunno if that's union or league (lol)

Noodle, my point is there are possibly more reasons to be "suspicious" that Fallon "cheated" (and when we're talking about race fixing there are no issues with dictionary definitons) but do you think he's completely clean because a judge has found there's no case?

So a man whose win rate actually INCREASED in the races he was supposed to be throwing has "more reasons to be suspicious" than someone banned for breaking drug testing rules?

The syndicate that was supposed to have fixed races LOST money on races Fallon rode in.

Worst. Cheat. Ever.

speaking of cheats, why did good old christiano feel the need to do that against poor old derby county of all teams? they were already 3-1 up! if he continues to cheat in such a flagrant manner he'll never fully win this country over. :(

England Rugby team? BBC viewers to fuck right off, please.

can't think of a better team performance sadly

There's this country just north of Carlisle that was quite handy.

but not better

Would have voted for Harrington not Federer as overseas sports personality of the year.

Scotland's football team winning home and away vs France?

England's egg chasers done well to get to the final but how the fuck can a team award go to someone who lost a match 36-0?

xposts

there must be a club side or sump'n. BBC = still 1956, gentlemen only pleez

^^^a very very good point (xxpost to Harrington)

When will DING JUNHUI'S year come?

At least we don't have a royal in the running.

(I'm watching the snooker btw, keep updating!)

Hamilton is like the Racing Driver of Hearts tho.

best club side would be Arsenal Ladies. any non-Brits in that team?

The People's Choker

Diana took corners better

omg

Lifetime achievement award goes to homophobic shitbag architecht of England's worst ever major tournament performance (Euro 88), Bobby Robson

lol recycled Princess Grace jokes

best club side would be Arsenal Ladies. any non-Brits in that team?

-- blueski, Sunday, 9 December 2007 20:44 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

Dutch midfielder Felicienne Minnaar

don't forget Robson got lucky and picked a decent side by accident because of injuries and suspensions did really well in 86 and 90 tho.

Lifetime achievement award goes to homophobic shitbag architecht of England's worst ever second-best major tournament performance (WC 90), Bobby Robson

dammit xpost

^^^OTM, England were IMMENSE against Belgium and Egypt in 1990.

Platt vs Belgium NEVER FORGET

pwning Corrie atm too

Yeah, he's gonna die next year

Bobby Robson not David Platt

yeah ok the rest of the world wasn't exactly firing on afterburners circa 85-93. bobby robson strikes me as a fairly ordinary manager who got by on personality and mundane 'common-sense' tactics. his england nowadays would get crucified by most major international teams.

some young'un called Cope just took a brilliant 137 total clearance off john higgins. a future winner?

Good. They should kill off the soap character as well.
xxpost

put yr deadpool where yr mouth is (although i suspect you're probably right, he's flickering at best)

xxxpost

Lung cancer apparently.

In third place: Ricky Hatton

Same as last night then.

Runner-up: LEWIS HAMILTON!

SWERVE~!

THANK YOU JEBUS

KATE NASH

Your winner, and sports personality of the year: Joe Calzaghe

Immigrants, come over here, take our BBC hosted awards ceremonies...

hooray!

BAN LOUIS HAMILTON

The BBC is a wonderful institution and its viewers are knowledgeable and astute sports fans.

He better beat the shit out of Hopkins next year now.

Joe Calzaghe MBE, also known as "The Pride of Wales" (born 23 March 1972 in Hammersmith, London, England)

a victory for the mediterranean

(Cope just played one of the 5 worst shots I think I've ever seen in a major tournament)

I had a horrible feeling it was gonna be Radcliffe for a second there.

Internet bookies rubbing hands. First rumours of betting scams in 10...9...8...

Real name Joseph Calzaghe
Nickname(s) The Pride of Wales; The Italian Dragon

The Hammersmith Hardman

They say that Calzaghe's beaten nobody, but we all saw how great a fighter Jeff Lacy is last night.

Well, he's no Sven Ottke, obviously, but hey ho.

Caption competition:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44290000/jpg/_44290052_ab10.jpg

(it's Phil Taylor on the left, BTW)

Yeah, I was trying to work kiddy-fiddling in somewhere.

lol I completely forgot Lacy fought last night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton

Good work

A lot of sterling work on that page tonite.

(born 23 March 1972 in Hammersmith, London, England)

OMG it could have been me!!

omg

yr italian as well, no?

There's a "Lewis Hamilton finished second... again!" advert out there surely?

I think boxing is kind of for cunts really, but kudos for the British public for voting for someone who has at least won something.

I cheered REALLY fucking loudly, and heartily roffled at Hamilton not even being arsed at going up for his loser trophy. Hurrah for winners! (and loser England rugby teams). Also top lolz at Alex McLeish being nominated for coach of the year for, um, bottling an unexpected yet achievable task at the last hurdle.

Anyway after years of being overlooked I'm glad Calzaghe finally won in the year no one else British won anything at all. It's kind of the British Sports Personality equivalent of having a number one single in Indie Week.

Sorry, forgot about Jamie Murray, AKA Brit who actually won Wimbledon. Lol no one caring about doubles.

Dario Franchitti and James Toseland both won things too. At least one of them got a nomination...

Cannot decide what was cringiest - the obviousness of the "better give Sir Bob an award before he croaks" award, getting James Toseland to play the piano, or getting Mark Ramprakash and Karen Hardy out to plug Strictly Come Dancing in the big ol' Christmas ratings war by poncing around to the cricket tune.

Also top lolz at Alex McLeish being nominated for coach of the year for, um, bottling an unexpected yet achievable task at the last hurdle.

yeah, SURE mcleish bottled it. jesus.

Fucking GEORGIA?!?!?! (also was going for vague lolz comparisons with the Lewis Hamilton season trajectory)

(i.e. did unexpectedly well, had finishing line in sight, did something rubbish at the penultimate hurdle, making the final hurdle trickier than it needed to be, arsed it up)

(I'm not really McLeish's greatest fan)

yeah, SURE mcleish bottled it. jesus.

Scotland did brilliantly to beat France home and away and had a great home win against Ukraine. McLeish was in charge for two of those three matches, apart from that what did he do? He lost to a team that had fucking SCHOOL the next morning.

Eck won a fucking watch getting a premiership job after losing 3 out of 8 competitive matches as Scotland manager.

I think boxing is kind of for cunts really

Matt DC out.

^^^agree with this post

Louis, there's a thread somewhere, probably the Euro 2008 one, where there's a whole bunch of "McLeish got lucky and is going to get found out" comment, if this doesn't make it clear enough for you. Also, yes, MattDC NOTM.

Maybe Matt had money on Hamilton.

Matt DC had his heart broken by David Haye

Is David Haye the only world champion in any sport who looks like he should be the bodyguard for Bell Biv Devoe?

Boxing is shit.

^^^ nother tax-dodging Motor Sportsmen fan

The performance of Scotland in their final game is more or less as far from bottling as it gets, in the context of ultimate failure.

In fairness, F1 is even shitter than boxing.

The performance of Scotland in their final game was kind of moot after they bottled it vs Georgia under-15s.

Also playing with 1 up front at home in your last game when you have to win isn't exactly showing your bottle is it? Eck put Kris Boyd (top scorer in Scotland last season) on in the 92nd of 93 minutes. What a brave manager.

xpost

The performance of Scotland in their final game is more or less as far from bottling as it gets, in the context of ultimate failure

I'm not sure how many times the game against Georgia needs to be mentioned before you actually understand how Scotland bottled it.

I saw the Georgia game, and sure they played badly with an understrength side, but...gah, whatever.

I agree that the Scotland team was understrength but then Georgia's first goalscorer had to get subbed off to finish his homework.

he was really tall though! you can't complain about conceding a headed goal to such a lofty physique

Right, so first of all your point is that Scotland didn't bottle it because losing to Italy is no shame, and now you're pretending you meant Georgia all along. Also surely someone NOMINATED FOR COACH OF THE YEAR could do something with an understrength side who had been punching above their weight (it's not like Scotland only have 11 players or anything, it's not *that* thin a squad) to get past a similarly-understrength side who up that point had only taken points from the Faroes, which was pretty much my point.

also, those tables and chairs that they had the guests sitting at were like the organisers had suddenly realised the day before that people needed somewhere to sit and had to zip round to IKEA and/or Woolies with a budget of approx £1 per person.

I have nothing to contribute to the "Is Alex McLeish a good manager or not?" squabble, other than to point out the obvious, that Louis is evidently losing on points and probably has a cut above his eye and the previous post may well be a KO blow or sumfing. (well done for being scrappy tho)

But on a different note how much did Lennox Lewis look like Stevie Wonder last night? Uncanny

Yes, Louis, shut it. McLeish = shit manager. You'll find out soon enough.

Looking at the list of previous winners ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Sports_Personality_of_the_Year#List_of_winners ) boxing is fairly well represented with 5 awards (Cooper twice, McGuigan, Lewis, Calzaghe) while there are only four footballers: Bobby Moore for winning a world cup, Paul Gascoigne for crying, Michael Owen for scoring against Argentina and David Beckham for scoring against Greece (the next footballer will probably get it for doing 5 keepy-uppies).

Michael Owen for scoring against Argentina

Amazed he didn't win one for diving against Argentina

(the next footballer will probably get it for doing 5 keepy-uppies)

Posthumous lifetime achievement award for Jim Baxter then :-)

Right, we're nearly back on for this year now? Can Chris Hoy's big thighs beat the tax-dodging boy in the fancy car?

doubt it

Aw, shite, JAKE HUMPHRIES! NO! Whither Adrian?

SPotY voters sure do love tossers who drive round in circles more than people who have, like, actual athletic prowess. Still, Lolzaghe last year showed good things can happen so I'll be rooting for Rebecca Adlington.

rebecca adlington might be the surprise choice of winner
x-post

She's been fairly low-profile since the Olympics though, unlike Hoy who would turn up at the opening of an envelope.

Andy Murray's basic unlikeability is going to do for him, despite him doing great things all year.

adlington by a fucking street (i have decided) in the absence of ronnie o'sullivan

not that i really care tbh

Andy Murray's basic unlikeability is going to do for him, despite him doing great things all year.

― ailsa, Sunday, 14 December 2008 19:06 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

His own fault for being Scottish in a built-up area

Can't see it being anything other than Hoy v Hamilton, tbh.

Unless the "big" "race" at Wembley was an omen - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7782521.stm

xpost, not really, he doesn't even really have the Scottish support.

I think England will vote for one of their own Olympians ahead of a Scot.
Lewis Hamilton will probably win it with Rebecca Adlington second and Hoy or in third.

Did you not hear the cheer Chris Hoy got? He's massively popular.

Jake, on the other hand, is a fucking dick and should never get near the telly ever again.

I still don't think he will beat Lewis Hamilton though. But you never know I suppose.

xpost, not really, he doesn't even really have the Scottish support.

― ailsa, Sunday, 14 December 2008 19:11 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You don't think the reason Middle England doesn't like him is because he's Scottish?

he plays tennis so surely his only english fans are middle class?

Yeah, probably, but it will be because Lewis Hamilton does a sport that's popular, not because he's not Scottish. I'm quite confident he'll do better than Adlington.

xpost to Dom, not really, I think it's mostly because he's a torn-faced miserable bastard. I think Sun-reading England doesn't like him because he wouldn't support them in the World Cup that year once though.

if Chris Hoy wins, SPOTY will have truly sold its soul to 'results on paper'

the rest will vote for Essex Man

pfunkboy brings the class war stereotyping to thread.

I think Dom beat me.

Chris Hoy will inspire tens of youngsters to schlep over to the best cycling facilities in the world and train relentlessly until they are ready to cycle round a track quicker than anyone else in the name of Sport

i mean it's cycling, it's not a natural bodily action, it's a very specialised pursuit

Oh God, orchestral Coldplay. My ears!

is Hamilton actually there? if not it's Hoy's

also wow victoria pendleton is gorgeous

Yes, she is, isn't she?

hang on this Welsh rugby dude is World Player of the Year and didn't pick up a shout in the main awards?

that may be because we only know him as 'welsh rugby dude'

Not if he was a nominated person being pushed all over the BBC schedules, I wouldn't. Also, if I'd given anything at all of a fuck for rugby since Scotland turned rubbish.

Oh look, it's the "James Toseland plays the piano" segment.

GO AWAY JAKE YOU ARE A TWAT.

fwiw World SPOTY = 1. Bolt 2. Phelps 3. Mitcham imo

Aye, Bolt should have it in the bag, would have thought. Unless someone at the BBC listens to Cristiano Ronaldo's self-publicity.

For the first time in my life I just phoned up and voted. I assume this means that Ant & Dec have just made a tenner out of me.

Who for?! I never know anyone who votes in these things (I once drunkenly voted for Mark Owen to win Celebrity Big Brother because Les Dennis is a cock, but apart from that, nada)

Eddie Butler may well have my favourite voice in the whole wide world.

Nicole Cooke. I know she hasn't got a chance of winning, but I think she deserves it most out of the five hundred cyclists on the shortlist and I hate to think of her getting no votes. (xp)

Also voting for Cooke. She should have won in 2006, seeing as how she might very well be the greatest of all time in her sport (apart from Jeannie Longo, obv).

So that's two votes already. Come on ILX - mobilise for Cooke.

Stop Les Dennis.

Matt Mitcham's story is one of the most authentic "fairytales" to come out of sport that I can genuinely think of.

I think the lion's share of cycling votes will now be going to Bradley Wiggins.

Matt Mitcham's story is one of the most authentic "fairytales" to come out of sport that I can genuinely think of.

― country matters, Sunday, 14 December 2008 19:48 (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...

oh shit

Did you not mean to call him a fairy, then?

btw, Rebecca Adlington clear favourite with the bookies.

gaffe of the year :X

that's so duff

OK, going off reception in the hall, Hamilton would appear to be walking this.

Quality round-up of Scottish football there, Rangers Rangers Rangers, oh, Celtic snatched the league on the last day, Rangers Rangers Rangers. Total time about 5 seconds. But it did show Davie Weir crying, which is nice.

ilx's scottish league thread to thread

Aye, because we're impartial. And we love Rangers.

it's Llanelli i feel sorry for

hey, look, Bobby Charlton's still not dead! have an award!

Vennegoor of Hesselink's time will come, don't worry.

God I hate Alan Shearer.

lol at Team GB and a subset of Team GB being up for the same award

AND THE SUBSET WINNING IT!

Pendlton for Strictly

Phelps struck down by Bolt shock.

Ugh, Heather Small. Go away.

It's Hamilton, isn't it?

Becky in 3rd, pissing off the bookies.

Nope!

Chris Hoy ftw

(will lol if it's like Ohoruogu or someone)

WOOO!!!

Yay!

Rebecca Adlington look gutted

Hoy looks like he cant believe it

He'd better practice this "OMG can't believe it" stuff some more for when he gets his Sir Chris Hoy thing in the New Years Honours.

Bradley Wiggins clearly a mix of being proud for Big Chris and relief that he's not up there again himself.

Lewis will win it but Becky might not so I guess you gotta feel sorry for her

I don't think you coulda argued with any of the 10 winning it. Sure makes a refreshing change from someone winning it because the Queen is her granny.

And actually winning some events, and winning over bloke who got votes because he had a dead wife...

SPoY is an entertaining diversion that I get wound up by once a year for two hours, then don't give a fuck about the rest of the year. I don't think anyone really takes it that seriously, do they?

Just Louis. Who will be reading this just now. *waves*

Blimey. I thought Hamilton was a shoe-in. That was a nice surprise, but I can't help thinking the bloke just opened the envelopes in the wrong order.

Haha Jamie I was thinking the same thing when it was being announced.

i take it everyone is down on Hamilton winning mainly because he is technically more reliant on other forces compared to the Olympians? he'll be like Schumacher now and not win it again for a few years

Nicole Cook should have been first or second. First woman to win a gold medal and a world championship in the same year on the road.

― Ed, Monday, 15 December 2008 09:31 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i thought they messed up the scoring and everyone were sports personalities this year?

Bring it back next week and everyone's votes will still be counted because otherwise we'd have to put on a Last Of The Summer Wine rerun!

I don't think anyone really takes it that seriously, do they?

You would think wouldn't you? But apparently not:

"After the year I've had and the whole team has had, to be crowned Sports Personality of the Year, it just means so much. This is the big one and this is just unbelievable.

"Standing here holding it in my hands, looking at the names on this trophy, it's quite incredible... This is unique. There is nothing like the BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards. This is the big one, it's as good as it gets."

Overdoing it a little, no?

Surprised Chris Hoy won it over Adlington but not over Hamilton. I think the Olympics was a MUCH bigger unifying moment than Lewis Hamilton winning the championship by a couple of seconds. Also he'll probably win it again at some point, so best save him for a year in which GB does nadge all else of merit.

What annoyed me most was the incredibly cliched 1974-style entry the cyclists had to make, i.e. coming into the studio on their bikes.

But yes, proof once more that great sportspeople do not necessarily make great talkers.

"After the year I've had and the whole team has had, to be crowned Sports Personality of the Year, it just means so much. This is the big one and this is just unbelievable.

This is about public recognition of the sport more than anything else. Cyclists are so used to doing their thing with not a bit of interest from the British public. TBH, I'm more surprised that Chris Hoy won this than the fact that he won three gold medals.

I'm surprised he didn't utter the phrase "living the dream" since I thought that was now compulsory for anyone who wins anything on TV.

With Ed on board as well, that's three ILX votes for Nicole Cooke. I demand a recount.

Is it too late to cast my vote for Ashley Young?

more like spurts personality of the year amirite

Special Juande allegedly wants A Young at Real for 30 million Euros; not sure why he'd make the step down tbh

ok why no claire taylor

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/sports_personality_of_the_year/8386162.stm

obv andrew strauss by a street

David Haye ftw

he knocked out a crap sideshow giant

strauss performed epic feats pretty much on his own to vanquish the most feared team in a nationally-loved sport

he didn't even knock him out! if he'd knocked him out maybe i'd see your point

Cricket is shite, and punching blokes expected to donk you into the ground like a piledriver isn't. Also, he's a very nice chap. FEAR MY SPORTING LOGIC.

i think most ppl were expecting haye to win? yeah he is a very nice chap and i wish his boxing academy quite near where i live all the best - boxing is a great sport. but it wasn't an epic fight.

no contest: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44044000/jpg/_44044603_jessica-ennis416.jpg

^^^u sprung

She did great things in a field of sport which routinely fails to capture public imagination!

Claire Taylor won England two different world cups pretty much on her own!

David Haye won the most boring title fight ever against 100kg of Russian granite. He can have SPOTY once he's knocked out someone who can actually box.

^^^^^^this however is completely otm

indeed

would be a joke if giggs won it for "sentimental" reasons

Pretty sure Beth Tweddle is the token classical album of this list but she seems 100% grounded and OK so I am going to fruitlessly hope she wins

i think they'll give it to Button to "make up" for the F1 world champion not winning it last year

if button wins it i will be appalled - the sport has 0 credibility

i mean it is quite funny watching it disintegrate but there is no glory for button

Nominees coming out on stage. Local girl Jessica Ennis and Ickle Tom Daly getting the biggest cheers in the studio.

One vote for Cavendish and one for Giggs from the Brutish & Short household.

A Footballer In Sight

He has a personality?

Who was the enthusiastic old man with the white handlebar moustache who the camera kept zooming in on?

Did Giggs win then (am watching the X Factor)? lol. I said earlier to the mister that he was going to win because he walked on to "tonight's gonna be a good night".

least deserving winner since, er, Zara Phillips.

gutted

awarded ten years late

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46iqRSBiI5s

Can only assume it's some kind of retrospective thing (like his player of the year award as well). Is he planning giving up soon?

Just been offered another year's contract, apparently. Obviously it's a retrospective thing (as you say, same with the PFA thing). I mean, he's been good this year: surprisingly so, considering him and Scholes looked well past it a couple of years ago, but no one would really claim he was the outstanding footballer of 2009, never mind of all sports.

Still, what a great career:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEAouJwTYlU

This is like Paul Newman getting the Oscar, basically.

Aye. I see Seve got the "still not dead yet" award this year, presumably Giggsy was a wee bit too young for that one still.

Anyway, it meant Jenson Button didn't win, so we can be grateful for that at least.

That #2 vs Spurs in '92 from the clip above was the first time I heard "new George Best", I think.

what the actual fuck

and as for team of the year, well the men's cricket team was a rag-tag bunch of dismal flops led by one man alone

the ladies' cricket team won TWO WORLD CUPS

fucking idiocy from everyone

Aye. I see Seve got the "still not dead yet" award this year, presumably Giggsy was a wee bit too young for that one still.

bit nasty on Seve there, he's achieved a lot and was cracking jokes when he spoke on BBC during the Open this year. he has easily done enough for a lifetime achievement award and the fact he might be dying shouldn't invalidate that. on the contrary.

graeme mcdowell? srsly struggling to think of anyone

"someone called graeme"

bazzump

gareth bale?

yeah let's give it to a domestic footballer whose country has done fuck-all ever and who has done moderately well on the left side of midfield for their club team, that'd be original and worthy

peterson?

/trolling to make up for rubbish tmi thread

lj ignoring actual competition for achievement throughout thread. women's cricket? gtf.

yeah it's mcdowell, tho i wasn't aware it was an international award tbph.

ah no i kid- he's 'one of them'

Paul Scholes innit.

fuck, just realised they're gonna give it to a commonwealth games no-mark

fuck you bbc

Thought McCoy was favourite at the bookies and think he'll notch a v. deserved win?

the bookies certainly love mccoy

oh wait

The entire audience doing a blue-tinted Poznan to celebrate Aguero's last-ditch title winner was truly the stuff of nightmares.

http://i.minus.com/ibrbOoRe6fTRMf.gif

It would have been amazing if they'd done a mass this instead

is that rafa incognito

They should have interviewed moustache man.

I wonder if he's the same moustache man (then wearing a rennie-style hat, iirc) that the camera panned to, sitting morosely in the stand behind the goal where Sheffield Wednesday scored a penalty at Old Trafford in April 93 (awarded almost immediately by the replacement ref, who had come on after a lengthy delay to the original ref getting injured, meaning there was a sizeable amount of injury time that day....)

Anyway - is Wiggins going to walk this or could the bookies be wrong? In any 'normal' year, Jessica Ennis, Andy Murray or Mobot Farah would be a shoo-in.

Surely somebody on here can confirm xp? Can't believe google's letting me down on this.

I like Jessica Ennis.

My memory let me down - he *does* have a moustache, but he's merely sitting behind someone with a hat. Circa 1.55 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsmyTAs9C9k
I reckon it could be the same guy.

Here we go...

Murray robbed

gtf Wiggins you Oasis-looking cunt

He looks like he should be in Ocean Colour Scene and hang out with Chris Evans. Fuck that. Mo Farah wuz robbed.

i mean it's a v high standard this year but a) he's the Martin Freeman of sport and b) there's about 6 on that list i'd've voted above him

Ha, I just made the Martin Freeman comparison to my other half.

I'd go Farah, Murray, Ennis, Weir at least above him.

HE WON THE TOUR DE FRANCE!

You guys are nuts.

And what's wrong with Martin Freeman?

You folks must have been done over by a mod sometime in the past. His winning the TDF alone guarantees my vote, Olympics gold just cemented it.

xxxxp

yep, plus maybe Rory, Chris Hoy, Nicola Adams

XXp he's a hobbit

He's a twat.

friend's Facebook status update:

If only Team Sky had chosen Nikki Adams to win Le Tour.

kinda sums it up for me

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-563570/Martin-Freeman-life-shouldnt-just-day-office.html

we've got at least one thread for me to get as close to libelling Freeman in as possible

mind you, never forget

Politely, I comment on his lovely house and the tranquillity that surrounds it.

"When I moved up here this woman I know said, 'Ooh! There are a lot of whiteys up there', and I said, 'I love white people; I've no problem with them at all."

The idea was that I was going to complain because there weren't enough blues dances out here; not enough ragga around. But I'm not bothered by it.

"Multiculturalism hasn't and doesn't help, because rightly or wrongly it polarises people so much," he continues.

"Racism is one thing ? and I don't agree with that in any form ? but noticing that there are differences is normal and fine and to be encouraged.

"We've reached a state now where it's, 'You shouldn't notice. Why are you noticing he's got a bomb and has a beard and is Muslim and wants to kill your family?"

"There is no country in the world like this. If all of a sudden all the traffic wardens in Ghana were Welsh, they'd really notice and might not love it? We give ourselves a hard time in this country in a sort of mea culpa way. But if we were that racist, people wouldn't come. Very simple."

indie guilt in full effect itt

yeah, was it Murray robbed that gave it away?

winning the Tour is a great achievement, but it's a team effort in a sport where most of the last 20 years' worth of winners have been doping, and relies essentially on strength and endurance rather than the finesse and moments of creative inspiration that you need to be a top flight tennis player, boxer, golfer etc etc

fair dos apparently there are more cycling enthusiasts in the country than fans of those other sports but whatever, Wiggins achievement to me doesn't feel as special and the aspects of his personality that seem to endear him to some people grate right down my spine

and if that's indie guilt because OF COURSE SECRETLY WE'RE ALL INDIES then you can shove it up his well-tailored arsehole.

hope this clarifies the situation, thx.

Pretty sure you need skill and finesse to ride a bike at 60 mph down a mountain etc

yeah well, give me a degree of poetic licence. still stand by the gist of it. yeah the Tour = big achieve, i just don't think it was the defining victory of the year, i'm obviously not the only one who feels like that.

there are definitely more tennis fans than cycling fans in this country - murray will win spoty soon i'm sure. obviously this year there was an unusually high number of deserving winners.

if this were actual meritocracy rather than a parlour game for petit bourgeois nudniks to affirm majoritarian identity via minoritarian sports then it would go to a football player pretty much every time except for this year cuz of murray and whichever year lennox lewis unified belts

so wayne rooney every year from 04 to 10 and gareth bale 11 and probably 13 onwards

yeah i forgot this shit has been won by at least 2 royals and a Nigel Mansell

don't think finesse and creative inspiration are necessarily more laudable qualities in sportspeople than strength and endurance - if anything the fact that the latter qualities can come only from years of self-denial and discipline (the former perhaps representing something more innate or ineffable) links them more strongly in my mind to what it is that sets great athletes apart.

that doesn't mean it isn't often more enjoyable as a spectator to watch people who excel in finesse etc, of course. i mean my favourite footballer is matt le tiss. but i still think wiggins was a worthy winner of this ridiculous gong.

yeah but i mean finesse athletes have the latter too, not like the twinkletoed wayne rooney couldnt have been a champion brick thrower in another life

thats before we even think of what rooney could have brought to the world of dressage

was mcilroy in for this or what

sure, it's not really either/or is it...i mean endurance cyclists are more than the sum of their muscular parts too