RONIN directed by john frankenheimer written by david mamet and starring robert deniro

i love the way the geopolitics of these ex-military guys' situations is both totally absent (since its never really made entirely clear who they are, what they used to do, what theyre doing right now except in the vaguest sense) and totally suffocatingly present

this movie is front to back amazing and i love it

can't believe we haven't had a thread on it!

yeah its like never been talked about on ILX at all

my dad's been telling me to rent this for years

your dad otm

mamet's obsession with masculine competence is well done here. i can take or leave it otherwise, tbh, but here it's great.

the only bad thing about this movie is richard pryce's irish accent!

Last good DeNiro?

there must have been a thread at some point

i love stellan skarsgaard in this!

who among us does not enjoy katarina witt getting clipped?

xp the cast across the board is excellent, but yeah skarsgaard is particularly good

also, great car chases for people who don't like car chases (me)

sean bean is tight and the character he plays is really cool too: spy movies don't have enough blustery losers in way over their heads -- and then, the character doesn't get killed off! they actually figure out he's full of shit and send him packing.

everything cool about bourne is a lift from this film

Natascha McElhone

LOVE HER.

everything cool about bourne is a lift from this film

I say bullshit on this. None of these guys had a hand-to-hand throwdown like the three Bourne has.

yeah true, i was being CONTROVERSIAL

i was thinking abt the relationship between the bournes and this, and i think this definitely counts as a progenitor--this doesnt have great hand-to-hand combat but it has a lot of other stuff that comes through

you get the sense that all of these dudes have their hand-to-hand throwdown days long behind them

deniro is basically old bourne

with a sense of humor

the scene w/ skarsgaard and the coffee cup = clearly dude had kicked some ass in his KGB days

These are all good points. Sorry. I'm a little punchy today.

What about S8 tear-assing around Paris? HOLY SHIT.

i love that scene but dudes quoting "what color is the boathouse at hereford" gets old.

i was thinking about the awesome car stunts in the bourne movies, but the scene in this where they're speeding through oncoming freeway traffic takes it for me.

there's an essential seriousness to the violence: bullets are tiny little things but they'll cut right into your fucking body. the guns sound like guns (ie, like fake guns! pop pop). even hoary old movie tropes like a car chase through some cafe tables looks really awful -- i think the movie is edited really well, it lingers for an extra beat on the collateral.

****

that's a great point, gff

RONIN SO AWZ

the fact that the spraypaint is still wet on the decoy macguffin is a bit silly to me. and the bit with michael lonsdale is goat cheese. but natascha mcelhone is smoking hot, pryce is a great bastard, and yeah basically the most amazing cinema-landmark car chase since probably Bullitt.

i think frankenheimer got special dispensation to have car- and gun-fights in paris; you can tell he loves the city something fierce. and yet, the statement seems to be that a chase or gun battle in your neighborhood would actually seriously suck! as if anyone could think otherwise...

I'm immune to a lot of movie car chases, but the ones in this actually did have me clutching the arm rests (esp the early chase at night in Paris)

Utterly great movie!

I LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH

SO MUCH

yeah its like never been talked about on ILX at all

-- max, Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

never been threaded i guess but i mention it eveyr chance i get!!

i just ambushed you with a cup of coffee

i did a google search for ronin and deniro and you were like the only person who came up slocks

so rock on dude!!!

you know who else is great in this? JEAN RENO

:D

There has been speculation as of late that a sequel was to be filmed somewhere in Asia, with De Niro and Reno reprising their original roles alongside actors James Franco, Charlotte Rampling, and Tony Leung Chiu-Wai[citation needed].

the long shot of the chase down the wrong side of the freeway, so epic!

there's some sort of alternate ending on the DVD versh, anyone know what happens?

he gets the girl

oh wait no I think he's ABOUT to get the girl but as she's about to go into the pub where he's waiting she's kidnapped by random interlopers in a van

and he never knows what happens

Ronin-lovers should also back up 34 years and see The Train. Frankenheimer had it goin' on for a long long time.

The Train does indeed slay soft silly suckas.

Also, everyone gushing about Ronin here needs to be a Melville head, too.

I don't know that the Ronin fanbase necessarily crosses over to the 5-minute-walk-across-a-bridge Melville style, man.

i never left

I dunno, Hoos.

exhibit a: hard bitten dialog betwixt the manliest of mans

exhibit b: clever and elaborate heistjobbery

exhibit c: inflexible yet barely spoken of codes of honor

I could be wrong, sure, but I think there's something to my comparison.

for "heistjobbery" i give you a pass

I held out till they gave me a grasshopper.

what's a grasshopper?

let me see... two parts gin, one part brandy, one part creme de menthe...

so, are you labour or management?

I LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH

-- s1ocki, Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

SO MUCH

-- s1ocki, Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

so, are you labour or management?

-- s1ocki, Friday, December 21, 2007 9:43 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i have actually asked someone this, semi-seriously

i need to watch this again and will

there's a thread somewhere in which greg and i liveblog our stoned confusion re: this movie

and i wld also like to say that THE UNIT is totally underrated by ile you guys

rrrobyn if i could figure out who has my copy of the dvd i would lend it to you.

i should just buy another one, i always see it for like $8

Rrrobyn is back! Recuperated from her post exams zone.

rrrrronyn

:D :D :D

sepu--?

I LOVE I LOVE I LOVE I LOVE I LOVE

The masculine hyper-competence is so goddamn well done, communication by eyeblink and barely visible curl of lip. Reno is, in a way, DeNiro's second but there's no lack of status for him, he's cool, he's got nothing to prove anymore. And Max OOOTTTTMMMM about how their hand-to-hand days are behind them already, but the reflexes are there, ex. coffee cup scene.

So, are we saying that these guys are Bourne + 20 years?

I could see that.

I especially love the part where De Niro says "No smoking." to Bean.

Bean is like "Bad for the ol' noyt vision, innit?" Like he was taking part in a pub quiz or something.

De Niro was simply stating standard operating procedure - no smoking.

Very clear old Seanny Boy doesn't quite belong.

talking of reno, i love how at the end you realize that it is HE, not de niro, who is the eponymous ronin.

also. one of de niro's best i think. just look at the way he watches his surroundings. always alert. such great presence.

And understated as hell. So different than so many of his other roles.

the whole awareness + misery aspect of deniros character is so otm

I should see this again. At the time, the freeway chase seemed too derivative of To Live and Die in L.A., long shot and everything. At the time, I preferred The Edge.

i'm in the jetlag westcoast zone now
i guess thesis defense was a kind of exam
i may start a thread about how my brother lives in this apartment. it is kind of fascinating. but i have to do other things, like, outside where there are other things
vancouver is weird
xposts
lol rrronyn

i also loved watching the way de niro watches things

I remember the stoned confusion @ ronin thread! I got SO MAD

what thread was it???

"DON'T WATCH INTRIGUE-O-MATIC SPY THRILLERS WHILE HIGH, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE"
"WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO DO THAT"

srsly this movie should be called STONIN'

i was stoned during the viewing of this movie that inspired this thread--it still worked for me.

haha i remember tom's anger!
i wonder if it was a sandbox thread? i don't think it was directly about ronin. hrm :/

I think if I went on a date with somebody, like even if it was Keira Knightley, if we were in the theater watching a spy thriller and she leaned over and whispered "wait why did he do that?" to me more than twice, I would get up and find another seat so I could enjoy my goddamn movie without getting pestered by a retard.

What an interesting thought exercise that was.

if we were both kind of drunk and watching it on the couch at home it's an entirely different story.

Then the limit goes up to 5 times I think

if you're drunk and watching movies with keira knightley on your couch and you haven't made out by the 5 times limit you lose big time

i hate people who dont understand that the way narrative is structured not only involves but REQUIRES you not knowing everything at once

least favorite questions of all time: "who's that guy?" or "what's he doing?" within the first 10 minutes of a movie

if you're drunk and watching movies with keira knightley on your couch and you haven't made out by the 5 times limit you lose big time

This was also part of the thought experiment, and you are correct.

(for the record, i pretty much never ask those questions. stoned ronin watching seems to be a special case. also that old movie with nick nolte in it, i think he play a corrupt cop, i don't know, i just remember being 12 and not getting it all.)

least favorite questions of all time: "who's that guy?" or "what's he doing?" within the first 10 minutes of a movie

this is on the level of "I'm a Republican"

have those people never seen a movie before??

only the kind that have robin williams in 'em

i would understand it if i was introducing an alien to earth movies and on his planet a "movie" is related to you instantaneously with no temporal aspect of the narrative by which things are revealed to you, but otherwise its basically unforgiveable.

Yeah, that kills me. My wife has NO patience for new movies.

anyone who is still awake in north america who gets the spike channel -- it's on!

wow cool circular following shot there.

de niro is always so repetitive, i wonder how much of that is written for him or if he just does that

hot damn i wish i had a telly in here now

u guys with this thread next to the craisns thread i seriously thought this said CRONIN

ohman my brother has cable AND it includes the spike channel (which i now know was once TNN!) but lol westcoast time means csi is on right now
sad

xpost - or RAISIN

other movies with self-surgery GO:

master and commander
two mules for sister sarah

that's all i got

http://i13.tinypic.com/8dw0dqd.jpg

yeah, this movie is incredible.

least favorite questions of all time: "who's that guy?" or "what's he doing?" within the first 10 minutes of a movie

-- max, Friday, 21 December 2007 21:10 (1 week ago) Link

otfm

even worse when they're yakking during the movie or keep getting up and coming back and KEEP asking "who's that guy?" or "what's he doing?" for the duration of the movie. these people should be shot.

ok so i pushed this up on my (generic online rental service) queue stat, thanks dudes!!!!!!!`1

i watched the first half of this yesterday, so good. :>

I don't grok the concept of watching a single film over multiple days.

it's pretty easy.

it's not like i do it on purpose, unless it's a super long or dense movie. i had to go do stuff.

i'll have to watch this again

you people really need to see melvilles 'le deuxieme souffle'.

I just looked up John Frankenheimer to see what he's done since. :( RIP.

I think if I went on a date with somebody, like even if it was Keira Knightley, if we were in the theater watching a spy thriller and she leaned over and whispered "wait why did he do that?" to me more than twice, I would get up and find another seat so I could enjoy my goddamn movie without getting pestered by a retard.

this may be because the datee is more interested than you than the movie

ok i broke down and saw this again -- because of you guys -- and WOO HOO so good

i can't believe i didn't notice the first time around how the whole movie is a meditation on labor relations -- with like, explosions and guns and cars

also good call on this as the proto-bourne (except bourne replaces "who are our bosses?" with "who am i?" -- blech)

love reno in the back seat of the car nodding to de niro after the latter saved his skin. also love reno as the triggerman during the wrong way pursuit.

underappreciated: skipp sudduth during the first big pursuit scene, skipp sudduth as chef.

skarsgaard nervously putting on his seatbelt during the freeway chase, lolz.

if there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

Draw it again. Draw it again. You're the ace field man, draw it again. It's a simple diagram, just draw it again. Draw what you say! Draw it again! Draw it again!! Two shooters, car comes through here, shooters across from each other kill each other dead. Oh my? Where'd you learn that?

skipp sudduth is so good and understated in this movie. what happened to him, he is/was on one of those emergency 911 shows that eve is/was on right?

you think i'm reluctant because i'm happy?

yeah, third watch. he's good stuff! the show was a bit eh.

his matter-of-fact cautiousness... so good.

deniro's

yeah i love him during that bridge/tunnel scene early on.

oh hey i rewatched this last night and i don't know what my problem was when i first watched it (ok i guess i know) but anyway it has everything and is probably my favourite movie

(for the record, i pretty much never ask those questions. stoned ronin watching seems to be a special case. also that old movie with nick nolte in it, i think he play a corrupt cop, i don't know, i just remember being 12 and not getting it all.)

-- rrrobyn

that movie was q&a, right? i don't remember much about it except that nolte tries to molest trannies in like half his scenes.

(MTL love for The Score, rrrobyn?)

oh yeah totally q&a. not for kids o_o

i remember liking the score! i think i watched it shortly after i moved here, in fact

i was saying in another thread about how i was going on a john carpenter kick, but i think i want to go on a de niro kick, even tho i've seen most of the films he's in (except for a lot of recent ones...) many times. i've never seen "once upon a time in america" or "the king of comedy"! and a few others

i wish i was watching HEAT right now

king of comedy see it!

I just watched this a few hours ago. It is still awesome. Really enjoyed it all the way through. I wanna see it again to check on the car chase in Paris because it is all fucked up. It's like they're on one side of Paris then all the way to the other side and back to where they began in less than 5 minutes. It doesnt spoil the car chase at all, it is still awesome by all means, but I always enjoy watching how fucked up geography is in movies :D

THIS MOVIE

Gonna start a thread w/ a shitty title about movies like this & THE GOOD THIEF (ha -- based on a Melville movie!) and other "thoughtful" thriller types of things, because I would like more stuff like this in my life.

More Movies Like Ronin & The Good Thief, Please

Via http://doubleosection.blogspot.com/2008/10/tradecraft-from-europe-with-love-i-love.html

According to The Hollywood Reporter, MGM is developing its 1998 spy hit Ronin into a television series--and it will be shot in Europe! (Probably.) The series will be co-produced by the BBC, which is also good news. Says the trade: "Ronin is being produced in the U.K. with Steven Garrett and Jane Featherstone's Kudos Prods., and MGM exec vp Chris Ottinger said the partners are looking for an American lead. 'Jean Reno would be great, too,' he added, referring to the iconic French actor who co-starred alongside Robert De Niro in the 1998 movie, which grossed about $93 million worldwide." Kudos are, of course, the producers of Spooks (known here in the U.S. as MI-5), so that's good news.

bah

fuck this

Kudos are, of course, the producers of Spooks (known here in the U.S. as MI-5), so that's good news.

is this any good?

no

no kudos to kudos

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4281/tynan6in.gif

is that going to be at the end of every episode like "sit ubu sit"

Draft of Ronin screenplay.

spooks is dece, f the haters.

A JAPANESE DRUM starts to play, softly,
but tinged with a desperate edge, growing louder

The words hang on the screen and we hold for a BEAT, and then
the DRUMS are cut off by - A SILENCED GUN SHOT: Thwpfft...

(fucking great movie btw)

Thwpfft...

There has been speculation as of late that a sequel was to be filmed somewhere in Asia, with De Niro and Reno reprising their original roles alongside actors James Franco, Charlotte Rampling, and Tony Leung Chiu-Wai[citation needed].

― max, Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:19 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ would kill to make this happen

no frankenheimer no credibility

frankencredibility

i assumed that frankenheimer was attached

Thwpfft...

i assumed that frankenheimer was attached

― max, Monday, July 27, 2009 12:33 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

uh max are u sitting down

lolllllllll

lol i assumed that was all before he died

obviously ive assumed 2 much

now a great director is dead

Get Friedkin.

friedkin killed him!!!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/105624/ronin

1 thing that bugged me: how do diedre and seamus get out of the whole car crash off the bridge incident?

omg i will watch this at a coffee shop right fucking now today fuck a resumeq

i was just looking at this on youtube to show my friend the opening titles which are awesome imo

yeah i love the closing titles too w/ the characters names

ROBERT DENIRO
as
SAM

Sam: Of course I'm scared! You think I'm reluctant because I'm happy?

<3

another thing i love about this movie--the way frankenheimer lingers on objects that seem peripheral at the moment (the coffee cup, the sign at the hotel) but become important later on

he even does it with something that doesnt come back until like the end of the movie but now i cant remember what it is...

deniro's shlong

no, dont think that was it

his nuts

no, i just watched it last night, definitely wasnt his nuts

his butthole

maybe?

this movie is excellent.

i listened to 3 of frankenheimer's DVD commentaries (actually recorded in the laserdisc era) this past week and all he talks about are lenses! well about 80% of what he talks about. kind of a gearhead.

i love the ronin commentary, it's kind of exactly what i want from a commentary. i'd rather hear about lenses then about how great a job everyone did and how brilliant the actors are.

i find a lot of director commentaries are kind of roundabout self-congratulatory, like they're basically all about how great the movie is but phrased in terms of complimenting everyone who worked on the film's work

yeah, frankenheimer was all brass tacks. he has praise but it's always pointed and specific. i like hearing him talk about lenses. but it does sort of contribute to the stereotype of him as being interested in flashy effects. he rarely talks about his conception of the underlying drama, the thematics, whatever.

he had a BIG crush on burt lancaster. just listen to the commentary on THE TRAIN.

also GRAND PRIX is sort of 1/2 a good movie and 1/2 a horrible movie but the bonus stuff on the DVD is pretty cool. and the saul bass opening is fantastic. and the races--wow.

though honestly who doesn't have a big crush on burt lancaster?

he loves drivers! iirc in the ronin commentary he goes on and on about how awesome and precise the stunt drivers were, all from some minor continuity shot of a citroen going around a corner. "coulda had the camera three feet closer. same skid, every time. guys were amazing."

I think if I went on a date with somebody, like even if it was Keira Knightley, if we were in the theater watching a spy thriller and she leaned over and whispered "wait why did he do that?" to me more than twice, I would get up and find another seat so I could enjoy my goddamn movie without getting pestered by a retard.

What an interesting thought exercise that was.

― El Tomboto, Friday, December 21, 2007 9:03 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i hope he never changes

btw one thing i thought that was curious/cool about this film (may have mentioned it before) was gregor's unseen assassin partner-in-crime, whom he specifically called "she". it kind of set up for a big reveal but the reveal never came, which was pretty dope imo.

not to be a pedantic asshole but i think you do see his sniper partner -- no explanation of what she does after shooting katerina witt tho.

well you only see her silhouette is what i mean, i remember the first time i saw it i was expecting it to be natasha mcelhone (not entirely sure it wasn't supposed to be her, considering how twisty the plot is)

i'm really bummed that frankenheimer is dead. seems like a nice guy. and he had more interesting films in him, i think, after a lot of time basically slumming.

yeah tho sad his last one was such a turd :(

you mean reindeer games?

btw one thing i thought that was curious/cool about this film (may have mentioned it before) was gregor's unseen assassin partner-in-crime, whom he specifically called "she". it kind of set up for a big reveal but the reveal never came, which was pretty dope imo.

― GOOGLE FOR NIGGA AND FIND JOREL (omar little), Monday, November 16, 2009 3:24 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes i love this--also that he calls her a "friend" iirc. i love all the twisted relationships in this--when vincent and the russian meet up in arles and the russian goes, "don't i know you from somewhere?" and vincent says "vienna."

i am such a sucker for oblique never-explained references to events outside movies

haha me too

thank god this movie wasn't more popular or wikipedia would be full of lame explanations

you mean reindeer games?

― figuratively, but in a very real way (amateurist), Monday, November 16, 2009 6:28 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes

i am such a sucker for oblique never-explained references to events outside movies

― max, Monday, November 16, 2009 5:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha, ditto

god this movie is so fucking good

"where do i know you from"
"we watched attack ships on fire off the shoulder of orion... in vienna"

sean bean is tight and the character he plays is really cool too: spy movies don't have enough blustery losers in way over their heads -- and then, the character doesn't get killed off! they actually figure out he's full of shit and send him packing.

― gff, Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:08 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

with pay! so professional

mcelhone is so great--"i trust we wont have to tell you to forget us. we wont forget you." or whatever.

"i will never forget u i luv u"

yeah actually i think it's a really original character, this guy who probably has some "in" and some decent amount of experience, but who nevertheless bluffed his way into this crew. he's not a double-crosser, he's not a bad guy, he's just incompetent. and yeah, he just lives and learns!

in most movies, when an earlier character suddenly appears in the frame/scene, you think "how in fuck are they showing up there" but here you think "oh, of course, they are in [x location] now"

xp and they get him out of the picture calmly before he fucks up and gets someone killed, adds to the irony of being screwed by gregor, since you are spending the whole movie waiting for the double cross.

Someone in my building has a brand new Audi S8. I imagine redoing the chase from Ronin in LA in it every day he's here.

i love sean bean getting all over-excited after the weapons buy and puking

the sean bean plot bit is so great because of how it reveals the hierarchy of the characters--like, its deniro who sees first and best how stupid bean is, while mcelhone and reno dont

and i just ambushed you with a cup of coffee is seriously one of my top 10 movie scenes of all time

it's only marred by the fact that "don't have people across the road shooting at each other" is kind of entry-level war-nerd stuff. they could have sent him packing as soon as he brought it up

...but i guess deniro had to prove it to the rest of the group, so, still genius

well i didnt know about it (and im sure 99% of the audience didnt either)

also i just ambushed u with a cup of coffee http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/images/msn/smiley-in-action/coffee.gif

legit lol

and i just ambushed you with a cup of coffee is seriously one of my top 10 movie scenes of all time

― Alf, Lord Melmacsyn (s1ocki), Monday, November 16, 2009 6:53 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thing is, this could've been done so poorly, too, imo

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x89/edwardbayntun/gifs/dramatic-looks-in-ronin.gif

http://www.mocpages.com/user_images/17026/1255608049m_SPLASH.jpg

!

hahaha

how

(really did not mean to carry that name beyond 1 post)

i love the other dudes in that scene too, they do a lot without saying a single word.

ya like when natasha mcelhone gives a big thumbs down and jean reno pinches his nose like he just smelled something bad and stellan skarsgaard rolls his eyes and sighs

didn't deniro kinda try to test skarsgaard with a cup of coffee during the first meeting too? maybe i'm misremembering.

he asks him the time while skarsgaard is holding a coffee to see if he spills it all over himself like a big nerd

he throws the coffee in his face and says, "FUCK YOU," to see if skarsgard is blind, or deaf, or can withstand hot liquids

i love that the cars are not crazy sport models in a james bond mode, but basic sedans tuned up for the occasion. there's a metaphor in there.

for life imo

if you drive an audi and are american you will get shot

or was it knifed? i dunno

slashed

dude got his fuckin throat cut

w/e, just don't buy an audi, is all i'm sayin

The Audi S8 is a crazy sports model.

i just love the music during the first big car chase scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1w9n-G7qAc

fuck man... chills. such a subtle use of sound.

this movie is so good that even now just scrolling through a day's worth of nerding out on it on the internet is entertaining and i am just have to watch it again now

i am watching this right now

watching frankenheimer interview from "golden age of television" dvd's... right. now.

my $9 ronin bluray arrived last night

put it on just to check how it looked and got sucked into the first hour or so

best movie

how does the blu-ray look?

dece but not mindblowing

CRITERION ARE YOU LISTENING

lame thing is the blu doenst include the commentary which is one of my favourite commentaries

are you shitting me? no commentary? oh ffs. That commentary is like awesome free film school!

yeah. its boolsheet.

what a bunch of assholes.

What would be the problem with transferring the commentary track over to bluray? idgi

lemme try this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/ronincriterion-1.jpg

*fans self*

<3

people never get the fonts looking good in those criterion fanboy covers

back to work omar

*crumples up resume intended to be sent to criterion*

wd buy it

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/5126499081_88abbf160e_o.jpg

Omar, what are your recommended sources for film stills and frame captures? Your image choices were pretty inspired in that poll reveal.

lol conrad. The Criterion "FIESTA" edition

for the poll i tended to search blu-ray review sites, many of which feature tons of stills and captures from various points in the film i was seeking. more ronin examples fwiw:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews44/ronin%20blu-ray/large%20us/large%20ronin%20us%20blu-ray2us.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews44/ronin%20blu-ray/large%20us/large%20ronin%20us%20blu-ray3us.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews44/ronin%20blu-ray/large/large%20ronin%20blu-ray5.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews44/ronin%20blu-ray/large/large%20ronin%20blu-ray6.jpg

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=326&position=8
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=326&position=6
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=326&position=9
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=326&position=10

http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/626_10_large.jpg

http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/626_6_large.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/626_8_large.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/626_9_large.jpg

that last one

I love how there's so much collateral damage. So many innocent bystanders get shot or wreck or get shot and then wreck. And that guy on the sidewalk who gets hit by the car as it's stopping.

Sound design is key here.

Forgot that Mamet used a different name, so when the credits came up I thought I was going nuts thinking he was involved. I wiki'd it and I love the explanation:

Writer David Mamet is credited as "Richard Weisz", reportedly due to disappointment at having to share credit with Zeik (the originating writer). According to production sources (notably Zeik's lawyer), Mamet's contributions were "minor", limited to adding the character Deirdre and most of De Niro's scenes. According to Frankenheimer, "The credits should read: Story by J.D. Zeik, screenplay by David Mamet. We didn't shoot a line of Zeik's script."[1] This is confirmed by a copy of Zeik's original script, which shows his very minor contributions.[2

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr2x8xm3Yb1qdhhtjo1_500.png

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/paul-rudd-computer.jpg

rownin

lol at fiesta ronin up there

I forgot about the whole ice skating thing at the end. Ice skating!

watching this for 1st time tonight

p sure the guy hitting on DeNiro is in the script solely to inoculate Bobby D and Reno from the "guys watching figure skating together" vibe that would otherwise be sort of inescapable

I forgot about the whole ice skating thing at the end. Ice skating!

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, February 24, 2012 4:46 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have seen this movie several times and I always forget about the whole ice skating thing

Yeah I just watched it again the other day

When Stellan Skarsgard asks Jonathan Pryce "are you going to kill me?" and Pryce lowers his gun and says "no, no, I'm not going to kill you", Skarsgard's face somehow grows even more weary and he actually brings his cuffed hands up to his face to remove his glasses in anticipation of the punch which lands a second later

In that scene Pryce and Natascha McElhone end up poking at the fire and having whiskey. We cut to Jean Reno, De Niro and Michael Lonsdale..... poking at the fire and having whiskey

I love how I forget so much of this movie that everytime I see it, it's like watching it for the first time.

If you like the chase scenes in this you should figure out a way to see Ce N'Etait Pas Un Rendez-Vous by Claude LeLouch (it's about 8 minutes long or something)

Though it's notable for its lack of destruction, contra Ronin

Ce N'Etait Pas Un Rendez-Vous

it was on Youtube last time i watched it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NJzrv4MaMo

I love how I forget so much of this movie that everytime I see it, it's like watching it for the first time.

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, February 28, 2012 7:13 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

watched this shortly on the heels of the action poll, for the first time since around the time of its release. One thing that struck me was how a film with so many amazing car chase scenes could still manage to feel understated. I loved the minimal dialog and sparing use of music. def jumping on the ilx 'lost classic' jampile w/ this one.

Haha I don't know why I negated the title of that LeLouch movie... Magritte must have permanently inhabited the part of my brain that stores simple declarative French titles of artworks

Other Tricks of the Mind Dept:

For some reason in my memory this movie takes place in Prague.. but actually do they ever go there?? It's Paris, Nice, Arles, Paris again...

ya no prague

however what's really cool is how untouristy paris is in the film... great locations

I just watched this again last night - Probably the fourth or fifth time all the way through. It has made me think the following things:

- Natascha McElhone has aged VERY well. She still looks amazing on Californication
- "Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna pass out." And . . . scene.
- I really need to upgrade the sound on my television at home. The car chases in Nice and in Paris have some amazing cars and amazing engine sounds, but they were really dampened last night. Audi S8! BMW M5! Some badass Citroen!
- Sean Bean's character is so obviously out of place, I'm surprised he didn't get ditched prior to the weapons buy in Paris. Just such an obvious poseur.
- Katarina Witt - ALL TIME BEAUTY

One thing I never remembered catching before - at the end of the skating scene, when the crowd is mobbing out of the arena in Paris, DeNiro tells McElhone to leave and that he "was here for her boss, Seamus" and that he "never left." I take that to mean he's still in the CIA. I had never caught that part before last night.

This movie is great.

i say "I NEVER LEFT" at least once a month

just watched this again recently!

i find myself wondering at the true % credit btw mamet and the other screenwriter. the other guy gets a story credit.

i think my favorite scene might be when sam goes to the cia dude outside a cafe.

trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YonDWuZ7LFI

has a couple lines btw deniro and seen been not in the movie

BLAM otm re engine sounds. There's SO much about the car chases to love, but the *realness* of them is what, ahem, turns my crank.

ronin car sounds + michael mann gun sounds

*dies*

pretty sure every europe set american thriller features at least a brief sojourn in prague or vienna

mix of tax breaks and vaguely suspicious mitteleuropa ambience

there's a vienna mention.

i thought michael mann gun sounds are the least realistic thing about his films? like preposterously loud? nb. i have never seen a real gun.

having grown up around them and fired my fair share, I always thought the opposite.

dayo OTM, get that rumoured Michael Mann Le Mans movie into filming pls... need MM engine sounds.

I remember watching the night shootout in miami vice, being astonished at the sounds coming out of the speakers... this low and stately whump whump whump, very awesome

Guns are preposterously loud. Way more unrealistic to see TV shows and movies where people let off a few and don't even flinch. Even with a shooting headset (that drop the sound level 30db), the concussion and noise indoors can be startling. I've started to wear earplugs and a headset when I shoot indoors.

you guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFBoIda0y5A

is that the one where she gets picked up by the IRA? that was on the DVD i think

yeah

not sure why they call her a "traitor" though

crazy internet gun dudes freak out about Mann movies so i'm willing to bet he's pretty OTM with his gun sounds. xpostsss

The placeholder dialogue scared the shit out of me in that alt ending xp

yeah

not sure why they call her a "traitor" though

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:48 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

because she (unwittingly) collabo-ed with the security forces who snatched seamus?

This movie was so, so good... Exhibit A in any 'how action movies were better before CGI' discussion

oh yeah - when de niro tells her to drive away she says no fucking way, her job is to pick up seamus right? but as soon as de niro reveals he's CIA she is.... AUDI S8

audi 5000 iirc

I watched this last night, or maybe it was this morning, somewhere in between, it was GREAT. Sean Bean as the guy who's obviously going to mess up and die, except hey the rest of these guys are hotshot professional criminals, of course they're going to notice that this guy is obviously going to mess up and die. So economical, I imagine under most hands this plot would be an hour longer with three more chase scenes - make em COUNT. And make even the hoary tropes like smashing through a marketplace feel brutal and immediate. So much coffee.

Watched it today after a pause of 8 years or more, together with my girlfriend. She fell asleep halfway through, unfortunately.
I can relate to that behaviour to an extent, after visiting the hideout and having Michael Lonsdale construct dioramae to further emphazise the film's already obvious metaphors the story never really kicks back into gear, save for the big chase. The finale is a bit muddled, I had totally forgotten how much of it played out, in contrast to the start in the warehouse, the gun acquisition, the ambush, all of the chases which are 12/12-classic genre-defining material etched into my memory.

Anyway, what an incredible film. My deep love and desire for the S8, that particular model, piloting that thing one day through narrow streets in France has not aged a bit.

Melville connection: Certainly. Cercle Rouge, it's like its older not-that-into-fast-driving, jazz-listening, chain-smoking 60s brother.

last time i looked at my netflix history i found i pretty much end up streaming this thing at least once every three months

According to production sources (notably Zeik's lawyer), Mamet's contributions were "minor", limited to adding the character Deirdre

deirdre, minor! zero credibility

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1807397/ronin-rocket-o.gif

me irl watching that gif: :D

possibly the best gif ever in the whole world

always love that the big plan sam is so committed to & argues so vehemently for is to fire on the convoy at a major intersection with heavy automatic weapons then chase them with a rocket launcher.

Gregor: So what could have been conducted in collegial atmosphere is now fucked into cocked hat.

that should be the coffee mug quote

yeah where's my fucking mug

*bangs imaginary mug on the table*

http://i.imgur.com/e1ZzHIn.gif

;_;

Gregor: So what could have been conducted in collegial atmosphere is now fucked into cocked hat.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Thursday, March 7, 2013 7:38 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:)

always love that the big plan sam is so committed to & argues so vehemently for is to fire on the convoy at a major intersection with heavy automatic weapons then chase them with a rocket launcher.

― discreet, Thursday, March 7, 2013 7:31 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

lol

that fucked into cocked hat line always sticks in my head. what does it even mean... sounds good anyway tho

it's a weird old english idiom but the way he drops the "a" just makes it immortal

blah blah blah toby mugs, skittles

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/knocked-into-a-cocked-hat.html

well i'll be. the way skarsgard says it always made me think it was some kind of borat-like malaprop

yeah I had no idea either

smh foreigners

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1824746/ronin-mb-short-o.gif

and an explosion for good measure

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZZmcHl5j8Ww/UHxdDXnZl6I/AAAAAAAASm8/3bjZAGlA9AI/s1600/ronin+gif_13.gif

there're times i catch myself, just zoning out or w/e, and i think 'why the fuck amn't i watching ronin?'

Ronin is one of the few movies I keep on my laptop - you just never know when you want to watch it again.

yeah there are windows where it's not streaming on netflix and i always notice and am always like 'aw wtf netflix?!!!'

im still bummed about the commentary not appearing on the bluray

So I am in Paris, and I tracked down the staircase from the opening and closing scenes of this movie and made my sister photograph me walking up it, quoting Vincent's final lines.

PIC PLZ

omg

awesome!

this experiences on netflix on jan 1 people so get to it

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/44096249/Are+You+Experienced++Vinyl.png

Anyway will watch it right after The Andromeda Strain.

is this the best action movie of the late 90s?

I sincerely hope not.

I watched this for the first time last night, largely inspired by the enthusiasm of various ilxors. I can accept in good grace the fact that it was preposterous. such movies generally are. the worse problem was it was perfunctory. After having rewatched Bourne Identity a couple of days earlier, this just fell flat as an undercooked soufflé. Terrible cardboard bad guys. The good guys were not much better, except Jean Reno, whose acting was better than his lines deserved. The car chase mayhem was mostly paint-by-the-numbers and was undercut by mediocre camerawork and editing.

lol

your opinion, it is to laugh. like so: ha!

your post was mostly paint-by-numbers and undercut by mediocre editing!

lol watch it again

did this sudden desire to watch a 17 year old film relate to the revive of the hereford thread the other day

xp I understand all you guys liked it. I thought it was a poor use of two hours. Your enthusiasm won't help me like it better. My dislike won't affect your pleasure in it.

Hereford thread

Having never watched it, I had no clue what the Hereford thread was on about.

lol

mediocre camerawork my ass, nobody has still ever filmed car chases like j-franks did in this movie with his low camera mounts... and this movie also has a very distinctive and effective imo "wide-angle" style... the camerawork is great so i really don't know what you're talking about aims

I guess there are a limited number of ways to film cars careening around and I've seen all of them enough times to start losing interest. Maybe this film broke ground 17 years ago and I've just been seeing all the later copycats. Maybe I am just too old and jaded to properly enjoy orange balls of flame and showers of sparks as cars are forced sideways into railings, over and over again to the accompaniment of insistent drumbeat soundtrack, so that for me, today, the best car chase is a brief one. This explanation seems plausible the more I think about it.

maybe i just ambushed you with a cup of coffee

lol

whenever I see a car chase in a movie now all i can think of is Bruno Pontz-Jones snickering ("Americans, always with the car chase, eh. And the happy ending, with the puppy licking the face")

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:29 AM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3rOKE2t0EHA/hqdefault.jpg

the car chases in this film take place in europe

John Frankenheimer is an American

jean reno is a frenchman

robert deniro is an asshole

fuhgeddaboutit

natascha mcelhone is a goddess!!!

I've never posted about this film, because the truth is, I forgot it instantaneously--perfunctory was my reaction too. I was surprised to learn it had such a following here. I'm right with Aimless (admittedly based on my non-reaction 15 years ago).

(best line in ronin)

maybe YOU guys are the perfunctory ones hmmmm

jean reno in this movie

ambushed you with a cup of coffee

when everyone has to follow your script, you can set up your patsy with a whoopee cushion if you want

could say the same for every zing in every movie ever made tbf

if every time bogie laid out a verbal step for bacall to climb and reciprocate in the big sleep she instead responded with a charmless comment about the weather or a thundering fart or by storming off then itd be a shit movie and a little bit less of a wonderful world nest pas

Different zings work for different audiences. Mamet's cup of coffee is like Odysseus telling the Cyclops his name was Nobody. It works if you want it to work. But the guy he humiliates had already been overdrawn as a weak nonentity, so vanquishing him that way, which was supposed to make Deniro look sharp and dangerous, just looked to me about as difficult as grabbing a dishrag.

i think it was about making him look not just faking it, but as being so weak that he wasn't even a threat to anyone. i think that moment was equal parts asserting his control, making sure his actual mission went off without a hitch, getting rid of an amateur who could get them killed, and saving the amateur's life.

it doesnt work because deniro's so strong and awesome and we're impressed, imo. it works because sean bean nails it as a quivering wretch.

and the movie isn't unkind about that

the movie's treatment of the sean bean character is one of its particularly singular aspects.

yeah im relieved for the little tyke every time i watch it

if every time bogie laid out a verbal step for bacall to climb and reciprocate in the big sleep she instead responded with a charmless comment about the weather or a thundering fart or by storming off then itd be a shit movie and a little bit less of a wonderful world nest pas

a thundering fart would make it a taking-a-shit-movie.

i think it was about making him look not just faking it, but as being so weak that he wasn't even a threat to anyone. i think that moment was equal parts asserting his control, making sure his actual mission went off without a hitch, getting rid of an amateur who could get them killed, and saving the amateur's life.

― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:06 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's also about telling you everything about deniro's past you need to know, and letting you know that you might not know what you think you know

can i just say how much i love deniro's dad jokes in this movie?

going to watch this right now

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--sNFqRYuf--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/649560072584230985.gif

IMHO most movies would be improved with thundering farts.

This not one of them.

huh, thought i wrote a post on this the other day. oops. so i watched this based on the ILX raves and it was... pretty cool? my partner really turned against it early, citing some stock/dopey things in the dialogue, the boringness of mcelhone, the unsubstantiated romantic (?) interest de niro takes in her based on nothing, and the heavy-handedness of the "and now we explain the theme to you" scene. i was looking to like it and mostly did, but definitely this is a movie for chase connoisseurs where you sort of are just relieved the stuff in between the chases is interesting at all; certain bits rise well above that to being awesome (the sean bean coffee scene, and de niro and reno's relationship generally) but... the #7 action movie of all time? really? i must have really missed something on that one. and yet i'm oddly down with the idea of seeing it again.

the one thing - yeah it's cool that we never find out what's in the case, i get it, it's a macguffin yadda yadda, but... we don't find out until the very end that de niro has a "bigger" motive, and it's pretty hazily sketched in. that would be fine but given that the movie does, indeed, linger on all the collateral damage and doesn't shy away from civilian death (or its obvious implication) then you are constantly going, jesus, why do they care so much about getting the case back? they must have some super important motivation! it must be that warrior code thing that the figurine guy was gesturing at, since that was strongly telegraphed as the main theme. but... it's not? because de niro is there on a job. so if that means jean reno is the ronin... what's his warrior code exactly? why's he willing to do all this? is it to avenge the guy whose throat got slit? is it personal revenge for getting double-crossed earlier in the deal? just not wanting to see them get away with it? simple loyalty to de niro and what he wants to do? or did i miss some dialogue that might hint at this?

the boringness of mcelhone

WAT

"pretty cool" QUESTION MARK?

i love you man but you had this coming

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdeixxc0xR1qm3ypqo1_500.gif

interrogate at yr peril

i enjoyed it! i mean i would definitely put it way above the peacemaker or speed 2 or pick another generic late-90s action-movie. we probably had slightly more fun with mask of zorro but i have no interest in seeing that again whereas ronin i feel has all these nice things to appreciate on a second viewing.

but mcelhone suuuuucked. just really blah. it was interesting for a while that she was so clearly stuck as this caper's middle management, in the same way that it was interesting (as posters here have pointed out) that sean bean is just allowed to be the crappy guy who then gets... let go with pay. i haven't seen that in a movie. so that was cool. but she never really...does anything, except the one big paris chase (which was admittedly very cool). it just felt like they imagined she was a much more interesting character and that we would totally understand why de niro is waiting around for her at the end (and why he - twice - gives her the chance to just bail instead of like...arresting her.

er... close parenthesis, and yeah, so then she isn't interesting, so the movie is missing what it seems to believe is an important aspect of itself.

we would totally understand why de niro is waiting around for her at the end

i do

he's hoping she'll pick up the tab at the cafe?

I'm just fine with McElhone showing up in *anything*

everyone in this movie is understated af so idg what else you could possibly want from mcelhone itt

i dunno, she just seemed kinda lame, never really came into focus as a character or something. is the idea that she's the ronin, or now will be, since jonathan pryce is dead? that would be cool if, again, we knew more about her own 'code' or motivations in this thing. it's never 100% clear whether she's a dupe/hired hand, just naive about pryce's intentions and cold-bloodedness, or an equally committed terrorist. sometimes it seems like she definitely doesn't know what's in the case, other times like she definitely does. i figured the case had to either contain a lightweight portable means of funding pryce's terrorist operations (drugs or diamonds), or something directly useful for conducting terrorism (plutonium or something, i dunno). so is she really committed to accomplishing some heinous acts, or not? what's her "warrior code"?

these things don't directly matter when it comes to whether the chase scenes or badass exchanges work (they do), but they matter for whether the 47-ronin monologue and the concluding cafe scene feel like a setup and a payoff, imho.

we don't find out until the very end that de niro has a "bigger" motive, and it's pretty hazily sketched in.

it's very directly spelled out, he is not a 'ronin,' but still working for USG, and his job is to kill or apprehend seamus so that the peace deal in n. ireland can be settled

he keeps needling mcelhone if they can talk to someone further up the chain because then he could do his job w/o all this fuckery with the case in nice

reno does all this stuff because cool guys who like each other are boyfriends and those are the rules

game recognize game

yeah i understood what de niro was doing. like i said... we found out at the very end. but the dots aren't connected while it's all happening, so it just keeps being distracting - jesus, these murderous thugs (our heroes, it seems) are willing to let a lot of fucking people die in the hopes they can get this mystery box back from a different group of murderous thugs. oh okay at the end it's all for some greater purpose but we don't feel that purpose at any point. maybe the peace talks would have gone fine regardless - just pundits filling out some dead airtime with idle speculation. oopsie!

Amazing to me that the powers that be in the US government are willing to accept massive amounts of property damage, serious injury and collateral deaths in allied nations in Europe on the off chance that it might eventually lead to a somewhat more secure peace in N. Ireland, even though the troubles in N. Ireland really didn't interfere with any particular national interest of the USG.

it's true, we usually hate property damage

it is just fantasyland nonsense, where you can fire off bazookas on the streets of European cities without any really serious repercussions.

More political hay-making:
https://journals.lib.unb.ca/index.php/jcs/article/view/11750/12521
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/us/politics/in-accepting-irish-american-honor-hillary-clinton-recasts-her-role-in-a-peace-pact.html

never knew this movie was such a political football

The coffee cup symbolizes the special relationship between US and UK interests.

but they matter for whether the 47-ronin monologue and the concluding cafe scene feel like a setup and a payoff, imho.

it's a mamet script written after 1990. it has some clever scenes but is deaf to dramatic devices.

was just thinking yesterday about another thing i did like about this movie - how much it looked like stuff hurt. especially in arles, when some people are tumbling over a railing, banging down stone steps, fetching themselves up at the next tier - couldn't say what exactly in the direction or stuntwork was really cementing the feeling of just how ugly a fall that was but i thought it was super great.

Amazing to me that the powers that be in the US government are willing to accept massive amounts of property damage, serious injury and collateral deaths in allied nations in Europe on the off chance that it might eventually lead to a somewhat more secure peace in N. Ireland, even though the troubles in N. Ireland really didn't interfere with any particular national interest of the USG.

UK exhausts MI5 options, needs "second party" resource to intercede, basically just like how the Canadians helped us out in Iran. We do it all the time. Anyhoo, you wanna whine about property damage in Europe? to the Yanks?

Anyway the ronin is all of them - the lesson is that all spies in deep cover are basically masterless warriors, stuff gets hairy and the only thing you have is your guts and the french guy you met three days ago.

AUGUST 15

SPECIAL EDITION CONTENTS

Brand new 4K restoration of the film from the original camera negative produced by Arrow Video exclusively for this release, supervised and approved by director of photography Robert Fraisse
High Definition Blu-ray (1080p)
Original English 5.1 audio
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
Audio commentary by director John Frankenheimer
Brand new video interview with director of photography Robert Fraisse
Paul Joyce documentary on Robert De Niro
Ronin: Filming in the Fast Lane, an archival behind-the-scenes featurette
Through the Lens, an archival interview with Robert Fraisse
The Driving of Ronin, an archival featurette on the film s legendary car stunts
Natascha McElhone: An Actor s Process, an archival interview with the actress
Composing the Ronin Score, an archival interview with composer Elia Cmiral
In the Ronin Cutting Room, an archival interview with editor Tony Gibbs
Venice Film Festival interviews with Robert De Niro, Jean Reno and Natascha McElhone
Alternate ending
Theatrical trailer
Reversible sleeve featuring original and newly commissioned artwork
FIRST PRESSING ONLY: Collector s booklet illustrated by Chris Malbon, featuring new writing on the film by critic Travis Crawford

saw this shared by an enthusiastic s1ocki, glad to see it getting a good release instead of a higher res dvd transfer dump

ohhhhhhhhh yes

wau

I loved the minimal dialog and sparing use of music.

That and the lol90s CGI tire smoke.

this is a place of love fyi

Nice - time to upgrade my old DVD.

okay after catching part of this in a hotel recently i have to admit that the coffee scene really is one for the ages. i also think de niro's very best cool-customer tough-guy performance ever might be in the "you don't wanna go in there" bit, just before that.

Spence: "You know, you think too hard."
Sam: "Nobody ever told me that before. But I wouldn't go in there."

Haven't listened to the commentary or any extras yet, but it's great to see a good transfer, because the existing version was crap. The ambiguity of the plot's direction after the heist, where we think we know the end goal but the characters don't know how to get there, and the denouement where Deniro's character's actual goal is revealed, would have been a wreck in less capable hands.

The car chases and gunfights are so insanely well-done, and you could teach a master class on how to shoot action based on those scenes!

The Northern Ireland angle still seems like a trite wrap-up to add historical weight to the action of the movie, though. It's really not necessary, imo

It's all about the Sam/Vincent relationship. Even when they barely know each other, Vincent gives Sam two cigarettes when he asks for one, and simply says "for later". It's almost wordless, and dreamy.

It really is. Every other person involved has a different take on the situation: Spence is 86ed for being a fake, Gregor has an actual job he's doing unbeknownst to the others, Larry is so businesslike you assume he's devoted to the work regardless of who he's working for. Sam seems to be in the same boat as Larry but is under suspicion, and Vincent decides to throw his lot in with Sam at the beginning and the job is secondary to making sure Sam succeeds.

It's the "old habits die hard" bit from RONIN (1998) https://t.co/atS0FjQ6kv

— Michael Tae Sweeney (@mtsw) March 4, 2020

i'm sure this is old news to everyone but i had gone this far without reading it so, just in case it helps you in these difficult times: if you like this movie then you might like the book the day of the jackal by frederick forsyth.

ooooooh you know i have never read that

thx caek

it often has this incredibly weird non-fiction style. i just read bad blood (business narrative book about theranos with a straightforward style) and the tone is very similar. i guess that's because it's proto-competence porn and as such spends a lot of time describing precisely what people are doing and a lot of what are basically training montages in word form.

also fair warning: the sex scenes are terrible verging on offensive.

also fair warning: the sex scenes are terrible verging on offensive.

It's funny; I don't remember there even being sex scenes, but I read it 35+ years ago, so I must have been right in that pre-teen zone between "don't notice sex scenes" and "read books exclusively for the sex scenes".

Hmmm this is very tempting to read, I do like scenes of competent dudes doing things, but I'm worried it's a step into airport dad books from which I may never recover

i've read airport dad books. it's a level above that.

There must be competence porn books/films with mainly female characters, but I can’t think of them?

There must be competence porn books/films with mainly female characters, but I can’t think of them?

Wallace Stroby has a whole series of books about a female professional thief. Thomas Perry's The Burglar is also really good.

Salt (2010) with Angelina Jolie wasn't the worst action thriller of its kind. Or maybe it was; at one point she took off her panties and used them to cover a surveillance camera.

There must be competence porn books/films with mainly female characters, but I can’t think of them?

Greg Rucka's Atticus Kodiak novels.

One more warning: DOTJ also has an extremely crudely homophobic scene in a gay bar toward the end

I interpret "airport dad books" as any books resembling those assembly-line books that were ghostwritten for Tom Clancy, upon which he put his name, in big letters on the covers. yeah, Day of the Jackal exceeds that dismal level.

Greg Rucka's Atticus Kodiak novels.

Add his Queen & Country novels, though the series starts as comics before it becomes booky books. (His MO is basically female action heroes being good at their jobs (and not much else).)

Amused to see DOTJ come up, since I just rewatched the film the other night. Not sure how it compares to the book, but the film breezes by for its 145 minutes of men doing things competently. Also, Michael Lonsdale!

Ah, Ronin. Always a pleasure to watch.

watched this yesterday! the sheer amount of innocent people who eat it in this movie is a little unsettling but the action sequences are so well-done. the last car chase is maybe a little too long, the slaloming through incoming traffic seems like it goes on for just a bit longer than is plausible even considering the suspension of disbelief necessary to buy into the kind of movie, but that’s my only minor beef

I second most of the praise in this thread for the directing and acting, and I think the fact that so much is unexplained for most of the movie actually works in its favor. the one scene I didn’t see mentioned that I thought was great was between vincent and juan-pierre as sam is recovering from the surgery, where they discuss whether sam’s still working for the CIA. vincent’s like “why would he put himself through all that? he could make one call and it’d be taken care of.” juan pierre just kind of raises an eyebrow and takes a long sip of his tea, like...”ok kiddo”

also: “you labor or management?”

tbh i could stand 10-15 minutes of additional slaloming through incoming traffic

agree

i was pretty hard on this movie five years ago, but it's stuck in my brain a lot more clearly than most 90s action movies that i've only seen once all the way through. would def watch again.

the only correct answer is that it rules

everyone gets there eventually

yeah one thing that was obvious was that this would be something I could easily see myself rewatching

i love rewatching this movie years apart bc i forget everything about it and get to totally reexperience how good it is

i first watched it with my parents around when it came out on video and i remember thinking it was so tonally different from every action movie i had enjoyed before, which only drew me deeper into its pull

The other day I saw someone on Twitter describe Michael Clayton as "a god tier Dad Movie" and instantly thought Um...you're not wrong, but what about Ronin?

Twenty-give minutes into this movie and it's pretty great.

welcome

buckle up!

👍🏽

so jealous.

Sean Bean is such a puke in this movie

This movie was so good I started watching it for the second night in a row.

ronin-pilled

i was pretty mixed on this movie when i first saw it upthread, but it stuck with me and i found myself wanting to go back and watch the best bits. saw it on the big screen tonight, and was very satisfied. looks great, sounds great, plays great.

solid q&a afterwards with Jamelle Bouie and John Ganz, whose smart and engaging podcast Unclear and Present Danger sifts through the politics of 1990s thrillers. they were good! good time at the movies!

grab a folding chair & a coffee mug

solid q&a afterwards with Jamelle Bouie and John Ganz, whose smart and engaging podcast Unclear and Present Danger sifts through the politics of 1990s thrillers. they were good! good time at the movies!

― Doctor Casino, Friday, December 13, 2024 8:30 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

burying the lede!! this is sick

yeah sign me up

Fun podcast but JB is such a better host/spieler, it seems a bit unfair on the other guy

Ganz is a helluva good political writer.

I need to read When the Clock Broke.

It's terrific.

Also, I swear, lol, I thought the co-host was Janelle Monáe.

their podcast is great, can confirm