Why do people who were privately educated get so butthurt when you suggest that this may have given them some unfair advantages in life?

good thread

title doesnt need the word 'unfair'

maybe they were butthurt before you spoke to them?

Do they now? I only know public school scuzzos.

The question surely is: where was John McMahon on the night of Maddy's disappearance?

just a guess but maybe because most people don't like having themselves and/or their families insulted?

Dom, it's okay, we know you miss Louis, but this won't bring him back.

it's a good question

see also butthurt for suggesting that private schools dish out 'unlikely' numbers of scholarships

bernard probably otm

Dutch English
dom stupid, dull, cathedral, foolish

there was a fair amount of butthurting going on at my private school. lol sensitive choice of words.

The question surely is: Why do NME features editors who were privately educated get so butthurt that they have to send out 180 text messages complaining about the bias towards privately educated musicians in the Observer Music Monthly?

"Inasmuch as ressentiment functions as an underlying affective condition that permeates one's conscious intentionality, there is no simple experience or apprehension of ressentiment. It is manifested in myriad ways. Yet, this whole affective unit has a number of essential constituents. Initially there is a desire for the values apprehended as possessed by others and as borne by certain goods. For example, there are the values of physical strength, health, beauty, liberty, intelligence, wisdom, integrity, fidelity, and holiness. This list follows roughly the course of Scheler's a priori hierarchy of values. The mere apprehension of values possessed by others and borne by specific goods is not distinctive of the man of ressentiment. So far, as we have seen, the aspiring noble man and the arriviste also apprehend such values. We must add to this apprehension the fundamental sense of insecurity and lack of self-worth, which the man of ressentiment shares with the arriviste. What sets the man of ressentiment apart from the arriviste is his sense of impotence, his feeling of weakness. Yet, it is possible to feel incapable of striving for what one apprehends as valuable, and simply resign oneself to one's lot in life; and such resignation is not invariably unhappy, resentful, or despairing. In order for ressentiment to take hold there must be the addition of certain negative affects in response to this perceived inability to attain what one so deeply desires . "- from "Ressentiment and Rationality" by Elizabeth Murray Morelli

To feel as if you've been kicked in the ass by a steal-toed boot.

The etymology of the word stems from the ancient Greeks observing a descrepit puppy being kicked in the bum by an unwelcoming shop owner. Once a well placed kick has contacted the said bumhole the puppy will run off crying with its tail between its legs.

http://www.infoshop.org/graphics/classwar_07.gif

^^^ reminiscent of BNP

Privately educated indies = double butthurt??

N*ck Griffin, he was privately educated.

Yeah? I bet he likes Scouting for Girls as well.

I wonder what privately educated Al Murray As The Pub Landlord has to say about this.

I like to think he'd be ironically racist about it.

"unfair" hehe

Why does anybody CARE about where or how someone was educated? What does it matter?

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Of course it matters! If it didn't matter one way or the other then parents wouldn't spend thousands of pounds on it. Which is why it's a bit silly anyone getting defensive, getting an unfair advantage is the point of private education.

I get pissed off about it because when people "suggest I had an unfair advantage" they act like such cocks about it! I only really get pissed off with middle class people who go on about it, because they almost certainly had more privileged backgrounds than me, just cos they didn't go to public school, they didn't grow up under the poverty line!

Yes, obv it matters in that sense. But why do people obsess over it after the fact? Yeah, it gives some people an advantage to have a private education. So what?

why do the same 3 people obsess over it on ILX after the fact?

Self-referential thread titles, C/D?

getting an unfair advantage is the point of private education

why is it always assumed that a private education is an advantage? or that parents making a large financial sacrifice is an advantage? inverse snobbery nonshocker again.

Because ALL kids who can't afford private education turn into FERAL YOUTHS. It was in the Observer yesterday so it must be true.

thread title was missing a "Why oh " at the beginning.

Perhaps because, correctly or incorrectly, education is widely seen as a foundation for future life success?

(plus this assumption that your parents must have paid loads of money for it, see DG's bizarre denial that scholarships exist)

ha yeah

jeremy clarkson for PM

Where does that place Siralan Apprentice and all the other University of Life Innit graduates, though?

haha @ Chinatown.

Then again, maybe it's that YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

http://www.maltp.com/train/screenshots/groups/tommy-spud-begbie-sickboy-rents.jpg

10 seconds prior to start of thread.

Our teenagers are feral. Literally.

In the wild, if a young member of an animal group misbehaves, the alpha male(s) rough him up as a firm lesson in social behaviour.

But we have no alpha male authority because we've tied ourselves in legal knots to protect the little darlings from 'dangerous' adults.

Now every town in Britain has a pack of wild animals roaming the streets, baying and howling, in full physical control of the environment.

They have become dominant.

Pickled Walter, Macclesfield

Recommended by 635 people

why is it always assumed that a private education is an advantage? or that parents making a large financial sacrifice is an advantage? inverse snobbery nonshocker again.

It's not inverse snobbery, it's a statement of fact. No parent in their right mind would spend thousands of pounds over several years on their child's education if they or the child didn't think it would give them an advantage over having gone to the free comprehensive down the road.

why is it always assumed that a private education is an advantage?

It's pretty simple. If you are privately educated, you have a statistically far higher chance of going to university. If you get a university degree, you have a statistically far higher chance of gaining fulfilling, high-paying employment.

Although I am no fan of Jeremy Paxman, I believe that he is quite right with regards to his criticism of certain M&S products. I myself have noticed a gradual deterioration in the quality of underwear items in particular over the last few years, with an emphasis on lower price rather than good quality which traditionally has been the hallmark of the company's products. I hope Mr Paxman may be able to influence matters positively.
David Pagett, Malvern, Worcestershire.

Recommended by 1,232,864 people

^ ban

YEAH AND THE SALADS ARE CRAP AND ALL

why is it always assumed that a private education is an advantage? or that parents making a large financial sacrifice is an advantage?

^^^^^^this.

in terms of being taken seriously in my place of work, i've found my private education to have been more of a disadvantage than a help over the years. it's helped me in other ways though, i guess.

This is like Titus Bramble whinging that Cristiano Ronaldo has more goal-scoring opportunities.

I'm not sure how, but it is.

PSOTINLSSE

I'm sure I can make a 9 letter word that describes this HYS...

Topsy Turvy, England, United Kingdom

Recommended by 10,480,546 BBC employees and mischievous students

Good to see BROADCASTING LEGEND Paxman grasping the essential issues which are gripping our nation in this bleak midwinter of 2008.

blueski: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/

You need to bang yourself against a wall for a bit until you’re less rubbish.

GENIUS!

is the speakyourbranes guy actually Topsy Turvy? that would make a lot more sense.

You need to bang yourself against a wall for a bit until you’re less rubbish.

7 comments speak your brane

from that link! xpost yeah!

Except the post he was skitting was a joke.

Don't care!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/MarkGrout/200712/rubbish.jpg

MAN IT SURE FEELS GREAT TO BE A BRIT SOME DAYS DOESN'T IT.

They see me loling, they hating.

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Nickelback?

THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU TAKE THE PERBORATE OUT OF FAIRY SNOW

lol britpop

Although I was raised in the West Midlands, now I'm in the US makin' deals.

Young, Gifted and Black Country.

Why do people who went to private school always rise so readily to the bait when people like Dom are clearly just trying to wind them up?

anyone who uses "ressentiment" instead of "resentment" is a dick; anyone who uses "resentment" as a critical tool is a dick.

Don't know this Young, Gifted and Black Country. Are they rockin'?

Upt0 might be the rightest.

Though I'm frequently wrong.

although Matt is also correct in that the not-so-subtle subtext to this thread title is: "Louis I miss you." *Sniff*

Why do people who went to private school always rise so readily to the bait when people like Dom are clearly just trying to wind them up?

Every thread needs a Syd Little.

Yeah, it gives some people an advantage to have a private education. So what?

-- Dr.C, Monday, January 21, 2008 4:04 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i think this salient point got missed. FACED, passantino: fuck off back to huddlesfield or whatever.

Re-read the thread title to mean people who were educated in secret.

Why do Freemasons get so butthurt when you suggest that this may have given them some unfair advantages in life?

(UK Watercooler 32 threadtitle there)

People say all sorts of revealing things in your presence when they think you're a half-wit. This is an unfair advantage!

You would not believe how many social foes I've absolutely dismantled because they heard this southern drawl and proceeded to fuck right up.

my musings:

1) i was privately educated.

2) yeh, i'd say this probably gave me advantages i wouldn't have had if i'd gone to the comp down the road. my parents certainly think so.

3) this, then -- the fact my parents were able to buy me a "better" education -- is palpably unfair, and no matter of wau-wau-wau about the sacrifices they made etc changes that. a two-tier education system based on the ability to pay = morally wrong, in my book.

4) so, on this evidence i have four As at A level and a surfeit of self-confidence (good); i also have a deep-seated loathing for the very system that created me (confusing; bad).

5) fact remains, though: the folx in question who are getting butthurt need to put their expensive education to good use and do some thinking. i'm not saying "everyone who went to private school is a cunt" -- how could i? what i am saying is that anyone who actually believes a system whereby, if your parents are rich enough, you can get a better education [1] is in any way fair must have a very unorthodox concept of fairness.

[1] and, as someone sagely pointed out upthread: if it ain't a better education, why are mummy and daddy so keen to splash the cash?

Why did Louis leave, anyway?

education.

(true)

yeh, he's doing it privately now.

louis doesnt do anything privately

tutors = immoral

wait, what?

He killed a dude in a bar-fight over the new 65daysofelastic record.

"why do people get so annoyed when i speak to them?"

tutors = immoral

wait, what?

well, yeh, same kinda principle, innit? don't see the poor kids getting "extra tew".

do people who have private health insurance react the same way? if not, why not?

don't get me started on that shit.

(Merkins this does not really apply to you)

"private health insurance, eh? can your fucking doctor stitch that?"

xpost aye, better make that clear from the off!

- is often a work perk
- doesn't really give you lifelong advantages

- doesn't really give you lifelong advantages

other than not getting MRSA etc and therefore living longer ... j/k, j/k

Maybe there should be a law where we quantify brain activity somehow, and then set a maximum limit at whatever the "intelligence poverty level" is and then anyone who tries to think more per day than the dumbest common denominator is taxed a little or gets his balls shocked. Fairness is the thing.

more importantly

Added: Monday, 21 January, 2008, 05:02 GMT 05:02 UK
When, oh when, will just one politician stand up and admit that the 'Political Correctness' path was the wrong one to take?

Graphis, London, United Kingdom

Recommended by 7 people

END THIS POLITENESS SCOURGE

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/tapestore/education.jpg

...If you get a university degree, you have a statistically far higher chance of gaining fulfilling, high-paying employment.

-- Zelda Zonk, Monday, 21 January 2008

Could have fooled me. Oh shit, they did.

I know, people should really quit throwing that stat out (or like w/a 'liberal arts' clause).

Says the person who's been an undergrad for seven years.

"I knitted my way through four years at Wellesley and ended up with a degree and a sweater, both of which were serviceable but somewhat smaller than expected." - Miss Manners

This is a thing in dublin, it was never something i'd encountered irl before

wonder what Slash N Burn thinks about this

This is a thing in Glasgow too.

wow dommy p gets around

strange how this thread fulfilled it's own titular prophecy

Is that a ref to public school kids misusing it's

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VqRUakwUOjA/UHZ4PEjqifI/AAAAAAAAA1g/FtqcrzuN-eE/s1600/snap_ho.gif

my catholic-educated coworker said today, "i mean, no one is forced to work at walmart!"

In the USA a degree from a prestige university might well get you into a prestige starter job. After you land into the working world, your fancy educational trimmings start to fade rapidly into meaningless noise and your boss's evaluation of your work rises quickly to the top.

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More detail on the phenomena? I don't know if I've experienced it or not.

I've definitely seen the motif of 'I'm doing well for myself just because I am a hard working individual who gets up in the morning' taken up by people whose parents were working class, made some money, and sent kids to private school. This motif often used defensively.

HI

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Cardamom_small.JPG

One gets an advantage, that's definite. The contentious bit is whether it's unfair. What is fair?

We don't all start from the same blocks in life, regardless of education. Geography, family, genetics, who knows what else, give advantages or disadvantages.

I guess I missed this the first time 'round, but *ahem* why would a public schoolboy start a thread like this without owning up to being one?

Dom? Public schoolboy?

He'd be much less of a twat if he was.

ah man this is some og zingcrew business

Find this personal discussion of a departed poster dreadfully distasteful

Would have addressed it at the time if I'd seen the thread, as stated. Dude posted a fair bit about what school he went to when classmate became instantly famous, so discussing it in context of thread is fine, but *my bad* it's a selective ex-grammar, not a private school.

One gets an advantage, that's definite. The contentious bit is whether it's unfair. What is fair?

We don't all start from the same blocks in life, regardless of education. Geography, family, genetics, who knows what else, give advantages or disadvantages.

Well duh, but unlike with your other examples, the distribution of wealth and the education system are things that can be (and often are) tweaked to make things fairer.

idk there's got to be some way we can work on streamlining genetics

Hitler tried.

selective ex-grammar

suspect Northampton isn't in the same category but it's tempting to file this thread with the people I met at university whose daddies owned large chunks of Kent countryside w/ horse paddocks and tennis courts etc, and whose friends from grammar school - the rich parts of Kent being more or less the only bit of the UK still to have grammar schools - were strangely all in the same family income bracket, all very exercised about public school kids as if they were typical state school kids

(not even a political opposition to private education as they all insisted "politics is boring", just narcissism of small differences)

Oy i was talking to tuomas dyou mind xp

Xpost to spacecadet this is exactly what I was talking about when this thread originally started. I got shit at uni from posh to upper middle class grammar school kids for going to a public school on an assisted place. Would happily trade supposed advantages with those cunts

You'd swap families

i forget what i said upthread on this, years ago, but ime the advantages of private school were the co-curricular stuff, not the teaching.

Its the halo of invincible self-belief, the stuff they give you in rural VEC's turns to mush as soon as your first boss gives out to you, the private lads ah sure you can't get into their heads at all

Its the halo of invincible self-belief,

yeah look at my halo of invincible self-belief.

the whole public school kids have boundless ingrained confidence and belief thing is such a huge myth

there is about half who do. but i dunno how you'd separate it. i assume it comes from parents.

or playing rugby?

it's possible that projecting confidence is more trained into public school kids than any other group of similarly-schooled kids, even allowing for all these sad-eyed young people with grade A violin and impostor syndrome.

type of public school too, like...there are a huge range of them, that never gets discussed really

prob uncontentious to say that public school education will send a kid already predisposed to be confident etc into overdrive

lg and lex, two shy retiring types imo

xp to self: or a thing that looks like confidence: being, for example, excellent at "bullshit", which feels like winging it and excitingly scraping your way through a stressful conversation on a tank of almost no knowledge, but is actually founded on a load of background work you did when you weren't paying attention.

Biggest bullshitter I know grew up in Wythenshawe and left the local shitty comp at 16.

Certain types of public school can give certain types of people a huge 'advantage', assuming they want to be chancellor or prime minister or whatever. Every one is different, shocker.

Wait can we just

i attended three post-primary schools, none of them were fee-paying or etc

ok, lets carry on in that vein.

Just, yknow, have a godiva at the ladies protestething o'ermuch

*grade 8 violin

Never had a music lesson in my life.

haha yeah I tried for grade 1 piano and guitar and even took a singing lesson or two. never took a grade exam. now starting a band of sorts :D

shame there's no grades 1-8 audio engineering eh soufawl

I'm a grade 7 at listening.

idk i think actual money eclipses this in importance, being able to enter into the experience economy in a way that is not available to people who worry about bills, food etc. so much of entry level work is self-financed in various forms. a decent cv in your early to mid 20s is largely a question of startup capital and investment now i think. the problems of generation limbo.

I think that a lot of the time when people are talking about this, those two terms ('public school' and 'money') are pretty synonymous. People think of the former as being an essential signifier of the latter - when it isn't, necessarily.

Whoa what do music lessons have to do with anything here? imo it's just another thing to get overzealous parents to dump their $ into, see also: karate lessons

Music lessons code as middle class in the UK.

Start-up capital is hugely important but so is social capital. A pretty significant number of entry opportunities are never advertised, they're found through networking and being in with the right families, via school links, can have a major impact on that.

University links can be just as important but there's also a clear correlation between private education and having access to the most prestigious institutions.

many privately educated kids do not have access to those networks and those institutions, is the thing

Anyone seen godiva since

I don't think anyone would dispute that the advantages don't apply equally to all, even within private education, xp,

itt a bunch of butthurt privately educated kids

lol, OTM.

guys, this is a dom thread.

Obv the poor kids post to the sub thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RubBzkZzpUA

my own private butthurt

lg and lex, two shy retiring types imo

coming from you, darragh? yeah your education really left you afraid to express your opinions! in any case i resent being lumped in with somebody else based on my 20 posts a month here.

i don't presume to know how confident or happy anyone else is, or what advantages life doled out to them. i think plax is otm upthread tho, money gives advantages, not private school necessarily.

itt a bunch of butthurt privately educated kids people

Im deeply damaged u fucker its different

and nobody claimed yis were happy, just better

you did say confident though.

Fair cop

i think it is obvious that social connections are massively important as well, and I do think that access to particular institutions of learning are important for this. i say this as someone who has had two very different experiences of institutions of higher learning, one where wealth never really seemed to enter the equation, surrounded by a very averagely financed peer group, affluence never really permeated anything, the building was falling apart, opportunities were limited. And then another where there was an immediately shocking (to me) culture of bored privilege, iphones, marc jacobs packpacks, unlimited drug money. going to house parties is still kindof pretty expensive. And money circulates in and out of these institutions in vague and difficult to trace ways that link social worlds to startup capital and back to the institution via like "economies of cool," and casual affiliation. Two obscenely wealthy classmates started their own project space with a deep pool of resources and things like this rebound back into prestige and clout that the university can wield, but the people that go to their opening nights are obviously friends and scene-ey people. its complicated and convoluted and yeah i think the confidence of prestige-via-proximity comes into it. but its difficult to unpack and no one element accounts for the whole.

There is a stereotype of the public school hooray-henry whose father dines with members of the media elite and managed to somehow get a key position after just 6 months' internship at his newspaper based on his connections and credentials. And yes, these people exist and I have met them and many many of these people are insufferable.

Equally, I have also met public schoolmembers who go about their business with perfect humility, didn't gain jobs off the backs of their credentials/capital, and wouldn't dream of bragging about their upbringings.

This thread was started by the same guy who said that graduates who leave university to go and work in the video shop are "the worst of the worst", so go figure.

I'm perpetually confused by the divide between US and UK definitions of "public schools" as they mean just about the opposite thing. What do people in the UK call schools that would be public schools in the US, local non-exclusive schools that are paid for through taxes rather than tuition and open to the general public?

state schools

got it - thanks

The term "public school" in the UK is pretty misleading, must admit.

From wiki:

A report published by the commission formed the basis of the Public Schools Act 1868. In the Act a public school was defined as one open to the paying public from anywhere in the country, as opposed to, for example, a local school only open to local residents, or a religious school open only to members of a certain church, or private education at home (usually only practical for the very wealthy, such as the nobility, who could afford tutors).[7]

tbh when we say "public schools" we often mean "fee-paying selective schools", rather than strictly the headmasters' and headmistresses' conference schools.

One of my colleagues was denying he went to a public school, saying it was just an "independent" school. I shut him up by pointing out his school was in the conference and therefore was officially a public school.

The same school Radiohead went to fwiw.

the narcissism of no differences

Basically unless you went to your local comprehensive and got savagely bullied, you're a cunt.

What was the question again?

ps anyone seen godiva

'conference schools' makes me think of john cleese in clockwise

I expect the reaction to the effects on public schooling on a messageboard like this is skewed somewhat towards the type of people who end up on a messageboard like this. The proto-prince-Harry types aren't going to be whining on the internet about the shitey breaks they've had in their life now, are they?

i was definitely not whining, it was more an "it's more complicated than people usually think" but darragh seemed more interested at laughing at his own jokes so w/v

it's been a bracing dose of 2007 here on ilx today

i laughed at all the jokes and i whined all the whines

and all i got was a messageboard like this.

That wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation. Six years of public schooling didn't teach me clarity.

spose most forms of privilege are unconscious & you tend to be oblivious to how they work in yr favour. i'm not sure what i think about the effects of different schooling overall but the concomitant resentment/defensiveness seems real & unhealthy

do ppl who were privately educated tip better or worse?

what *does* dom p do these days? i know he's much-hated round here, for valid reasons as far as i can tell, but he was never boring.

http://soupleys.com/files_uploaded/Dom-Perignon-Experience-L4fMS5jBFf8uDs.jpg

it's been a bracing dose of 2007 here on ilx today

― delete (imago), Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:40 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i hope this thread keeps going for a week, at least.

here u go tuoNI: http://dompassantino.tumblr.com

such a miserable failure.. and yet such clean design!

his blog!

http://www.burgerbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/lovinit.jpg

i also love noted misogynist william bennett

cheers marcelloproof!

did have a little love for that 100 worst twitterers. would have been more acceptable if they'd balanced it with '100 best twitterers' but i guess that's not how he rolls :(

anyone know the real reasons it got closed down? murmurs of legal threats which seem a bit heavy-handed for some internet snark.

lol xo

DP works in b2b comms now. Specifically defence/security industry journals, I believe.

Lex dont hate cos you didnt get the comedy module at hogwarts or w/e

assembling sandwiches 201