Fire up the Quattro! Ashes To Ashes happens

and in case you weren't already sold:

from DS:
Nookie Bear has filmed a guest spot on Life On Mars spin-off Ashes To Ashes.

The puppet and owner Roger De Courcey appear alongside Philip Glenister in the new series, which is set in the 1980s.

Dean Andrews, who plays DS Ray Carling, revealed that the cast was excited by the furry guest, saying: "We were like big kids, having our photos taken with the bear and Roger. He must have thought we were mad, although I think he secretly enjoyed his time with the weird people off the telly."

Geoffrey Palmer is among other stars lined up to appear in the show, which also features Chris Skelton and former Spooks actress Keeley Hawes.

Geoffrey Palmer

okay, this is good news. the rest ... i stand by what i said on the LoM thread, ie i fear this will heave.

still gonna watch it, though, obviously.

i fuckin' love geoffrey palmer, me.

I think I'm going to hate this, but I don't want to hate it. Interesting to see how they deal with the whole did/didn't Sam timetravel, since by having Alex Drake knowing stuff by having read Sam's files in 2007, then they're pretty much taking the mystery out of it and making it a "lol, fingerless gloves and rubik cubes" cheesefest, aren't they?

I think Ashes To Ashes will be better.

-- blueski, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 11:04 (8 months ago)

As long as Gene Hunt continues to be Gene Hunt I will be at least halfway happy with this series.

> Dean Andrews

lol.

in the sense that he is the very opposite of you, yes :-)

would smash keeley hawes

i hope this is as good as torchwood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zing!

gimme 5

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/homepagephoto%5C2007-09%5Chires_070905-A-pryor-001a.jpg

lame

^ boring

^^ this

hmph. proved right, sadly.

the one good thing: the soundtrack. god damn, 1981 ruled. if, over the course of the series, i get to hear "labelled with love" or "under your thumb", i will be ... well, a little happier than i'll be with the rest of it, if that first episode is anything to go by.

the whole point about LoM was that it was an intriguingly ambiguous drama that happened to be bolstered by a truly inspired secondary character in the shape of gene hunt, who provided a hitting-and-quipping sideshow when all sam's psychodrama got too much/badly written. this is basically the gene hunt show, with a feeble facsimile of the "trapped in the past" story half-sellotaped on. only -- gah -- they forgot to, you know, actually write any fucking dialogue for him, so the very first line is a retread ("armed bastards") and we end up with "gene hunt on a boat in sunglasses" as dramatic denouement. my. i'm surprised they didn't go the whole hog and have him jump over a shark as he got out.

it would be beneath me to quibble about quattros and yuppies not existing in 1981, so i shan't. i'd let them away with that if there was a shred of half-decent drama underneath it. fuck's sake, i'd let them off if they'd even given gene some better lines.

the next episode looks like it's set on my sixth birthday. i'll give it one more chance.

would smash keeley hawes

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, January 21, 2008 5:54 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

it would be beneath me to quibble about quattros and yuppies not existing in 1981

yeah one of the real lame things was: yuppies in 1981.

other lame things were the stupid music cues when gene hunt was about to come in.

keeley hawes is very beautiful but awkward at comedy.

but i didn't think 'life on mars' was very good and this was sort of less boring than that.

i think 'LOM' was more boring because it was more 'male' -- 70s retro always felt very lad-mag to me, and simm is such an everybloke... hawes's character's possible attraction to hunt makes that ambivalence more interesting too (though being fair i did not watch a whole lot of 'LOM'; maybe there was more going on).

that said i'd always seen it as kind of spoofy, like 'the sweeney' was the kind of thing knocking around in 2006-simm's head, and that's why he got trapped in it. don't think hawes's character's subconscious is populated by 'miami vice' and yet that's how the show ended.

tellingly, i'm just watching the last 10 minutes or so of the last ep of LoM on BBC4 -- which i thought was terribly weak and disappointing at the time -- but it wipes the floor with AtA. there's a feeling of drama, of suspense, of ... i dunno, of some kind of depth which was sorely missing tonight. now, fine, if that's what they want it to be: hurrah. but ... i dunno, comedy coppering capers were not necessarily what made this idea work.

still. we'll see.

also telling: the voiceover at the end referred to ashes to ashes as "the new spin-off series from life on mars", not as -- say -- "the sequel". perhaps i'm just expecting too much.

they have opened the door to having more series of 'LOM' by having him not die in 1973.

I thought it was okay in places but Keely Hawes' character was kind of annoying. Making her fully aware of Sam's case was a mistake, she's now way too self-aware and focused on why she's there.

On the plus side the campest bits seemed to work well - especially machine guns on the speedboat. And I'm glad Chris is going to get some action.

Also, would smash Keely Hawes.

I just watched it, admittedly slightly pissed, and enjoyed it a lot! Matt, I totally disagree with your point that Alex knowing about Sam's experience is a bad thing - a retread of the 'WTF I'm in the past with some arseholes' thing would've been tedious. I liked the bullets flying everwhere and no one getting hurt scene - just like a real 80s cop show. I'm still undecided about Hawes' acting, but she showed promise.

I will probably get laughed at for asking this, but what was the tune playing over the closing credits?

My god that car!

they have opened the door to having more series of 'LOM' by having him not die in 1973.

Yeah, I thought that! Also, odd that her subconscious added the exact storyline for the end of "LOM"...

Lamest thing: There is too much in her real life for her to want to stay in 1981, i.e. her daughter. Series will end with them being reunited, after lots of 'will she/wont she' ness..

The biggest thing missing from 1981 is 1980. And 1979, 78 etc. Everything, from cars, music, fashions are all exactly of the moment, whereas there really should be more stuff 'hanging on' from the recent past.

it would be beneath me to quibble about quattros and yuppies not existing in 1981

A quick Google finds that Quattro existed from 1980, and surely City boys like that would have existed in 1981?

The shot over the Thames and Docklands where the Dome and Canary Wharf should be was kind of poignant.

.. and pointed! LOOK LOOK WE REMOVED THE WHEEL AND ALL THAT BOBBINF!

I'm hoping that this will follow a completely different trajectory to Life on Mars and her 'I know exactly what this is about' will gradually turn to 'actually I haven't got a clue what the hell is going on'.

Well, that's all it can do.

A quick Google finds that Quattro existed from 1980, and surely City boys like that would have existed in 1981?

1) quattro made its motor-show debut in spring 1980. there's no way that, by july that year, there'd be RHD models on british roads.

especially not ones with 1979 number plates :)

but hey.

2) there'd be city types, yes, and a lot of them might have been wankers -- but they wouldn't be wearing shiny mid-eighties suits and big mid-eighties specs. because, er, it's not the mid-eighties. it's 1981. mark G is right -- look at footage from the time and it still looks very like the late seventies; the colour schemes and angular styles and so on that define what piss-poor TV writers we think of as the UK 1980s didn't just happen overnight.

but hey. these are quibbles of such unimportance as to be throwaway.

The Audi Quatro and the motorboat were throwbacks to Miami Vice, as someone upthread said quite insightfully.

Would any cop have a pursuit vehicle that was bold red and an audi quattro? Probably not.

well, no, of course not. and, upthread, that was what concerned me about it: ie the fact that while LoM followed a vague seventies-cop paradigm, this looked like a hyper-real cartoon where everything had been thrown at the wall and they hoped some of it would stick.

but actually that doesn't matter so much, because the plot and the dialogue are so shit they take your mind off it ;)

by july that year

hang on: it's 1981, isn't it? my mistake. so yeh, okay, i suppose it's feasible. just.

This isn't real actual 1981 people, it's a version of 1981 as going on in the mind of someone too young to really remember it at the time* so of course its going to be full of inappropriately assembled 80s signifiers!

TBH I have no idea to what extent Life On Mars actually resembled 1973 Manchester.

*Or at least we think it is.

xpost ah, no: no RHD till 1982, says the owners' club: http://www.quattroownersclub.com/quattro_file.htm.

i can't believe i care. really. i need to fuck off now.

it's a version of 1981 as going on in the mind of someone too young to really remember it at the time* so of course its going to be full of inappropriately assembled 80s signifiers!

yes, exactly. doesn't make it any good, though :)

Would any cop have a pursuit vehicle that was bold red and an audi quattro? Probably not.

-- Mark G, Friday, 8 February 2008 09:34 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

This doesn't make it wrong, it makes it stylised, in case there is any doubt of my intention here.

This isn't real actual 1981 people, it's a version of 1981 as going on in the mind of someone too young to really remember it at the time* so of course its going to be full of inappropriately assembled 80s signifiers!

well, this is the big question -- and it's hard to do. but the showdown was definitely straight outta a cop show rather than anything british police did. i'm pretty sure gene hunt and his guys would not have been carrying pistols, for example.

when the barrow-boy type city trader 'happened' is one for our boy carmody. they're usually associated with the deregulation of the stock exchange in 1986, but i think they were coming in before then. but in 1981 the uk was in a deep recession, and i think the city would still have been (deeply ruthless but polite) surrey posh dudes.

The Professionals (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Professionals was a British crime-action television drama series that aired on the ITV network from 1977 to 1983, filmed between 1977 and 1981. ...

Next episide features a DeLorean apparently.

Back to "Back to the Future" next week!

Definitely those city trader types were around 84 onwards. 80/81 were pretty much still the 70's in many ways. Adam James is the consummate yuppie in practically everything these days, it seems.

I cringed through the first 10-15 minutes, but at the end realised that I'd thoroughly enjoyed it.

Mr. Hawes is in the series later on, as is the fantastic Phil Davis.

Would any cop have a pursuit vehicle that was bold red and an audi quattro? Probably not.

It a standard (a trope?) of TV cop shows that the cops are driving cars that are beyond their means....Starsky & Hutch, Bergerac etc. And it is far easier to base your 80s-based show on TV programmes of the 80s than actual events of the 80s, esp if the writer wasn't actually around to experience them at the time as mentioned upthread.

Easier, but not necessarily less accurate - in that memories are faulty too...hmmmm.

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

lol 80s

Also, didn't Hawes' character's parents die in 1981, meaning she'd probably have enough other things going in her little life than assimilating concrete memories for a future coma-induced fantasy?

tellingly, i'm just watching the last 10 minutes or so of the last ep of LoM on BBC4 -- which i thought was terribly weak and disappointing at the time -- but it wipes the floor with AtA

Yes, they'd had 15 and half episodes of character and plot development leading up to that point. We're basically starting again here. Try watching the *first* 10 minutes of so of series 1 ep1 with a clear mind and you might be on to something.

I cringed when Gene Hunt came on referring to himself and Chris/Ray as "armed bastards", but as the premise of the show became clearer - that Alex was in Tylerworld - it made sense. Sadly I think this just gives A2A a licence to be hyperparodic, but I hope to be proved wrong.

Also, y'know, clowns are a bit scary.

I liked it with some reservations, btw. Which I think was my thoughts after the first ep of Life on Mars as well.

Also, didn't Hawes' character's parents die in 1981, meaning she'd probably have enough other things going in her little life than assimilating concrete memories for a future coma-induced fantasy?

Aaah, forgot that!

So, eventually she gets involved with finding out why and how they died, along with psychobloke's involvement (possibly eventually benign), and THAT's the resolution to returning her to the present day.

Yes, they'd had 15 and half episodes of character and plot development leading up to that point. We're basically starting again here

eh? don't be absurd! we're not at all. it's a spin-off: we're taking everything we know about LoM and shifting it forward a few years (pretty much literally, given what drake knows).

purely from the point of lighting/sound/design, LoM is a completely different prospect. it is, to all intents, a crime drama with an interesting story arc. AtA will prove to be -- and i might be mistaken, but i doubt it -- a cartoon about gene hunt swearing and waving guns about. if, by the end of the series, we're anything like as gripped as we were by LoM, i will eat my eighties tie.

(xp)

I believe there's a whole series of books and spin-off films devoted to an identical theme. "Harry Pooter" or something like that...

No we're not. All we know about Life on Mars now is that Sam Tyler created a series of characters, but it took us a good long time to be sure of that. Now all we know is that Alex Drake has taken the same lot of characters (though obviously doesn't care about Annie enough to drag her along for the ride) and is doing SOMETHING ELSE with them. So we *are* starting again - the same characters are there, sure, but in someone else's head. So we don't know what they're like here. She's toughened Chris up for a start, and turned Gene into someone who drinks wine!

I'm not expecting to be gripped, but I'm not going quibble about the period details in a series that has a built-in excuse for the period details being wrong. It's not Life on Mars pt2, and I'm not expecting it to be.

Life on Mars left people figuring a lot of things out for themselves. Bit like "The Prisoner".

But "The Prisoner" didn't have a 'spinoff' series where a different character confirmed the truth or otherwise of certain theories.

(That's if you don't count the DC Comics(?) Prisoner series of the early nineties(?))

turned Gene into someone who drinks wine!

But Gene's 'tastes' would have changed over the years anyway.

There's a Mr Hawes? ;_;

matthew macfayden

At least The Prisoner had a point.

With LoM and ATA I just think: what's the bloody point? Characters in someone's head rewritten in the head of someone else. Games with time and memory. Yes, very ingenious.

And?

So?

What?

It's the sort of thing the producer in Moving Wallpaper would have come up with if he'd been assigned to sci-fi duties.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if we see Gene Hunt in a Wimpey Bar or Berni Inn!?!

Enjoyed this for the most part. Bad Guy was played by Ian Curtis from 24hr Party People, which got me thinking...

I thought he looked like Eric Idle playing the dad in Shameless.

Also re. "don't look at me" - Blue Velvet was 1986.

I thought he sounded like Naboo (xpost)

Too good to leave on a 'other' board (with apols)

What would have given me the creeps is if Adam Ant had played the gunman.

.. which would have been perfect casting.

I will probably get laughed at for asking this, but what was the tune playing over the closing credits?

Roxy Music "Same Old Scene"

Anyway, it was a shaky start to the series but promising enough to keep me watching.

OK, that was bollocks. if alex gets to have this as her fantasy (which presumably she does, since she gets to call her colleagues her imaginary constructs, at which none of them bat an eyelid) why does her dream boy shag someone else? why does she get the crime solution wrong? why invent gene hunt playing pool off someone's knackers after you've made him subvert the whole driving-through-empty-cardboard-boxes cliche? why invent the concept of suicide-bombing?

still, steve strange, eh? (but points off for Boy George as cloakroom attendant)

OK, that was bollocks.

surprise

Not as good as Torchwood

'Fade To Grey' did not sound that banging at the time surely - but then it is a fantasy.

As for all the other stuff, the whole 'it's her psyche' thing gives them carte blanche to work around anything not going Alex's way. She's not actually in control of what's happening any more than you're in control of your dreams.

I liked the Pop Group quote but otherwise this really is rubbish.

Actual music Alex Drake would have been listening to in 1981:
Supertramp
Barbara Dickson
ELO
James Taylor
Cat Stevens

Also the writer should consider the viewers intelligent enough to work things out for themselves without having her screech "This is all a dream" every two seconds. Keeley Hawes really is in the running for the Worst Actress Award at next year's Baftas.

Actual music an Alex Drake type person would have been listening to in 1981:

etc...

Her, herself, whatever sounds most like what she would be listening to in the modern day.

The equivalents of:
Kings of Leon
Dido
Flaming Lips
James Blunt
Jack Johnson.

Oh, OK....

I speak of what I know; I started university in '81 in a predominantly female hall of residence and nearly all of them had collections consisting of various permutations of the above. With some Collins-era Genesis added in of course; Abacab was much bigger than Dare that autumn.

Oh yes, and Dire Straits.

yeah.. (sigh)

I remember one 'party' we all arrived at, the host was all "I've got Brothers in Arms!!!" and put it on autoplay for the rest of the night.

......

..........

:(

It seems to me that the music is one of the few things they get right, in so far as it's supposed to be the kind of music that the Alex Drake of 2008 thinks she would hear around her in 1981, which would presumably be precisely the kind of "WOW! That was the 80s!" bizniss you hear on the show.

They'd better find some way of encouraging some emotional engagement with Alex (or her situation) because the series needs something to replace the uncertainty over reality-or-extended-dream which ran through LoM.

I speak of what I know; I started university in '81 in a predominantly female hall of residence and nearly all of them had collections consisting of various permutations of the above. With some Collins-era Genesis added in of course; Abacab was much bigger than Dare that autumn.

Haha, not just females! As I arrived in my all male rooms at Poly in 1983 the sounds of Telegraph Road drifted down to my room. I sat there playing Joy Division until someone came and knocked on my door and said "Hey, what's this?". Then I knew I had a friend.

Stop whingeing about the music, the music is fine, it's the script that's shit. The reason Life On Mars worked was because it was a good cop show with the weird stuff built around it - neither episode so far has had a crime you could give a shit about. What's wrong with having a dude murdered at the start and the rest of the hour spent working out who did it?

Preventing a bomb that might be planted does not good telly make, even if you can see the future.

hmm. i quite liked that one. in fact, i liked it a lot. mind: OMD, dexys, visage, TENPOLE FUCKING TUDOR! ... what's not to like?

perhaps i was just in a more forgiving mood, or something. anyway: once again, i manage to be in disagreement with everybody. hurrah!

Trixie-The -Prozzie appeared to have been left sitting patiently in that interview room for SEVERAL DAYS, while DI Drake had her drunken one-night-stand with the Thatcherite bore, and then went to the fancy dress party on board the yacht another night.

how do you know he was a Thatcherite? ah yes the red braces (and being a demon in the sack)

Also : she called him a Thatcherite.

oh yeah!

Just caught up on that last one, it was a lot better than the first two I thought - had the right balance of darkness, comedy and a decent crime story rather than an excuse to go 'lol 80s' for an hour. If it carries on in this vein I'll happily keep watching.

ashes to ashes not happening then?

I listened to Radcliffe & Maconie and watched Crufts with the TV sound down.

I carried on my game of Football Manager 2008. Trying to get Gateshead promoted.

Yeah, Crufts. Kids going "awww" at EVERY DOG!

Same thing happens when they watch "Dog Borstal"

One rottw with "KILL!! MAIM!! SHIT!!! SNARL!!" moves and mad eyes, and Alice is all "aww, aint he cute?"

Radcliffe mentioned that William Hill's had suspended betting on Crufts because of an alleged previously unseen Superdog/Dog To Beat All Dogs but I didn't see any evidence of one last night.

Didn't see last night's but episodes two and three were good - they've got the balance sorted now. Also Chris and Ray work well as a comedy double act.

I am so sad that lovely Keeley just can't pull off the role.

I thought she was miscast after seeing the first one, but after weeks 2 and 3 I think she's doing a great job. In many ways it's a tough part to get right.

OTM, basically once they toned down the shrill and knowing nature of her character in the first couple of episodes she's been fine. Like I said the initial episodes were bad scripting more than anything else.

In Life on Mars, did things happen to the characters when Sam wasn't around? I'm pretty sure I read that John Simm was knackered after being in every scene so it would seem that it was all about him and the characters reacting to/interacting with him (I haven't watched it since it was on, so this might be wrong, hence why I'm asking), whereas in Ashes to Ashes Chris and Ray, for example, managed to do their good cop/bad cop routine and solve the mystery while Alex was locked in a cupboard with Gene. If the whole thing is just things happening to Alex in a "dream", how are we seeing things that she's not present at or involved with?

Yeah I was wondering that - Sam was in every scene, Alex isn't.

x-post I think she's absolutely great at judging the amount of the on-the-verge-of-hysteria sexiness that the role needs, and balancing it with the occasional softer touch e.g. when back at her childhood home last week (before she discovered that her mum was shagging whatisname from The History Boys). I'm not sure who could do the role as well as Keeley - maybe Ruth Wilson?

Ailsa - wasn't there one LoM which had much less Simm in it? I could be wrong there. But she would have been told how they'd rescued her - how that then gets in the right chronological order in the dream I dunno, but clearly stuff in the world around her happens that doesn't involve her. If I didn't have a hangover I'd be able to think this through :(

You're not it every scene of your own dream, are you?

I have some dreams I'm not in at all!

Still get paid though.

Oh wait.

I put dream in inverted commas because it's not really a dream, as such. It's something happening TO HER as she hangs in the balance between life and death, same as the two series of Life on Mars happened to Sam Tyler as his life hung in the balance.

OTM, basically once they toned down the shrill and knowing nature of her character in the first couple of episodes she's been fine/

Er... when did they do this? I loved her in Spooks, now she ruins the whole thing for me. She veers between "Right men, listen to ME", "Oh Gene, I said COCK, haw haw" and "Mollyyyyyyyy......." with nothing in between. And POSES in every scene. If you had to work with her you'd hate her.

NTRVP OTM though it hurts me to say it. Oh Keeley.

Ailsa - wasn't there one LoM which had much less Simm in it?

There was one where he was watching the action on a TV screen while a bit out of it, he's talking to his colleagues through the TV, so although he wasn't in it, it was still something he was aware of, unlike the things happening totally outwith Alex's immediate environment.

Um, that one was pretty damn good!

Keely is now much improved, so I guess iwas the script trying to do too much at the same time.

Although, just watched the repeat of last weeks, that one wasn't really.

Any other?

I've liked all of them so far.

Yes, but you're Nasty, Brutish & Short, so hey!

Wow, last episode and it was so spectacularly meh that no-one can be arsed posting. Um, so, meh. I liked Matthew McFadyen's mentalist Brummie dude last week though. However aarrggghhh, Keeley having to explain everything out loud to herself DO YOU SEE I AM MAKING CONNECTIONS I AM WORKING THINGS OUT, irritating much? Also, Geoffrey Palmer "you are institutionally racist and sexist and homophobic" Gene (to strains of pompous rousing music and cheers all round, even smirks from Alex and Viv) "yes, but we're the police, it's WHAT WE DO!" hurrah, cheer, isn't the Gene Genie the dog's bollocks OH FUCK OFF.

lolled at Drake's "NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"s

Also, Geoffrey Palmer "you are institutionally racist and sexist and homophobic" Gene (to strains of pompous rousing music and cheers all round, even smirks from Alex and Viv) "yes, but we're the police, it's WHAT WE DO!" hurrah, cheer, isn't the Gene Genie the dog's bollocks OH FUCK OFF.

this was totally fucked, thought i was lacking context cos i only started watching just as this scene started

Oh. Well I enjoyed it.

I really liked the whole thing. So there!

I enjoyed it but that Gene Hunt speech smacked of "oh we'd better give Gene something to do in this episode, it is the last one after all". But it was also a more than a bit "have you learnt nothing from Sam?" and that goes for the writers as well.

Running over an Escort in a giant pink tank was a bit Russell T Davies though.

Also the words "institutionally racist" would not have been uttered by anyone in 1981.

the car chase music was quite drum n bassy too, shoddy!

"Institutional racism does not exist in Britain" was a fairly widely broadcast remark made by Lord Scarman in '81.

Coming up in Love You 'Til Tuesday: Sam's long lost uncle (Nigel Harman) gets chased around sixties London by a menacing laughing gnome.

I don't think he actually used the phrase institutional racism, I was paraphrasing.

dingbod is otm anyway -- the phrase did exist then.

Oh well, I sit corrected. Always thought it only became a stock phrase after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.

Two better endings would have been:

1. It turns out that the plan to kill Alex's parents is devised by Evan, who intends only to kill the husband because he wants him out of the picture, ends up accidentally killing Caroline.
1.a. It turns out that the plan to kill Alex's parents is devised by Evan and Caroline so they can be together, but something does not go according to plan and Caroline either dies by mistake or dies for some other reason.

2. It turns out that the guy who shoots Alex in the future is not that guy with the scar on his face, but that copper with the floppy hair who has to spend the night in a cell with all the gay blokes. Shaz dies instead of living and the copper blames Alex, and then somehow finds her in the future (now grizzled) and tries to kill her. It would be a good reveal.

Haha I thought they were working towards the 'Evan is the murderer' reveal all series. That's kinda what we were supposed to think though.

Also why, if her's Dad's intention was to kil.l Alex too, did he not seem too bothered that she'd run out of the car?

would smash keeley hawes

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, January 21, 2008 5:54 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, February 7, 2008 11:20 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Would smash Keeley Hawes in the face and send her back to acting school to learn a thing about not doing hysterical ASAP

fair play

Well, that was rubbish. Mostly because I don't give one flying fuck about Alex Drake.

stop watching it then!

i think she is attractive but not enough to bother with this shite again

o wait i forgot about your phil glenister love

I want it to be good, I really do, because despite massive misgivings about the ending, I really like Ashes to Ashes. But it just...isn't.

(I do not care about Alex Drake, and I don't think I'd care about her if she was played by an actress I did rate either, tbh)

Um, Life on Mars. I don't like Ashes to Ashes. It's OK, but, y'know, it could be better.

Don't need to see Chris in his pants again though.

Harsh on Keeley, I reckon! She *was* dodgy for the first couple of episodes in series 1, but does a great job now.

That was better, though the Princess Diana stuff is balls and I'm still having issues with stuff happening that doesn't involve Alex at all (I mentioned that upthread) if this is all in her head. The will-they-won't-they tension is unnecessary, as is the Chris/Shaz storyline. But at least we're looking like we're going somewhere mysterious with it, rather than lol blue eyeliner and mullets.

However, chucking away the Tyler reveal in less than half an hour and also the has-Gene-gone-proper-bad-oh-look-no-he-hasn't thing was a bit silly. Do they not trust lol britishes to come back next week to see how things work out?

This is getting better with each episode. It's increasingly absurd, too, but in a good way.

In a roundabout way, I've just discovered Glasvegas did a cover of Everybody's Got To Learn Sometime. It's quite good. Not a patch on the Korgis, though.

I just dropped in to ep 5 and it was awful.

Is Adrian Dunbar meant to be Satan?

Well, I liked that ending, anyway (and not just because of OMD). I assume the TV-monitors thing is a hint that the next one will be set in 1984? (If not: they missed a trick.)

I liked the ending as well, which annoyed the fuck out of me because I have grown increasingly dissatisfied with it throughout, and they have now hooked me in enough to make me curious as to what's going to happen next (probably seven-and-a-half hours of below-par cop drama, unbelievable romantic interest and lol Commodore 64s, with half an hour of actual interesting storyline tagged on at the end)

lol Commodore 64s, with half an hour of actual interesting storyline tagged on at the end

That'll do me. Can take or leave the rest.

AtA will prove to be -- and i might be mistaken, but i doubt it -- a cartoon about gene hunt swearing and waving guns about.

up to the second-last ep of series 1 and really enjoying how the redux nature of Ashes, compared to LOM, lets them not take anything too seriously and just fanny about most of the time. Also Alex Drake's annoyingness makes it fun when, unlike Sam, she is frequently OffTM.

was a bit :( at the cuteish toothy ladycop getting capped by the dude that looked like the guy with the moustache from The Thin Blue Line and Cracker.

lol at "What are you doing? They're gyppos, not argies!"

From http://www.digitalspy.com/cult/s49/ashestoashes/news/a190555/ashes-finale-will-explain-life-on-mars.html

'Ashes' finale will explain 'Life On Mars'
Wednesday, December 9 2009, 3:08am EST
By Neil Wilkes, Editor

The last ever episode of Ashes To Ashes will also explain the ending to Life On Mars, co-creator Matthew Graham has promised.

The final episode of the predecessor series, which aired in 2007, had an ending that saw John Simm's character apparently commit suicide in the present day, only to subsequently return to his coma-induced '70s life.

The ambiguity of the storyline - as well as the questions raised in its sequel show - will all be resolved by the end of the upcoming third series of Ashes. "The idea is to unify the two shows," Graham told DS. "Series three unifies Life On Mars and Ashes To Ashes and makes them one show. By the time you get halfway through series three of Ashes To Ashes, you will actually feel like you're watching series five of Life On Mars!"

He added: "In a way what we're saying is that we're going to finally explain the mythology we've created. And in theory, there will be no mystery left."

Graham also confirmed that there are no plans for a new spinoff show following the conclusion of Ashes. "This is it, this is the end and I've written the last ever lines I will ever write for Gene Hunt. There's no way we could do another series after this. There would be no mystery left."

By the time you get halfway through series three of Ashes To Ashes, you will actually feel like you're watching series five of Life On Mars!

But perhaps I don't want to! Mr Creator! With your cheesy exclamation marks!

Slightly unsure about this. Despite my misgivings about ATA, I ended up loving both shows ... but in order to do that I had to give up on the idea of any kind of coherent dramatic universe and just settle back and enjoy Gene Hunt kicking off, etc. No disrespect to the writers, because on the whole this has been some fantastic telly, but I do feel the weakest moments are the ones when they try to "explain" things.

I am very much not looking forward to this.

Well, it's back on tonight, which I found out about earlier today, it existence having been hidden behind the new series of Doctor Who. Colour me underwhelmed (but I'll watch anyway, obv, because I love Phil Glenister and would watch him in anything).

Can anyone tell me if episode 2 has been on in the UK yet? Half the BBC site says yes, other half says Monday.

Ashes.to.Ashes.s03e02.WS.PDTV.XviD-CiA.
Ashes.to.Ashes.Sing-A-Long.S03E02.WS.PDTV.XviD-SFM

So it aired.

Cheers! Am downloading now.

Yeah, was on yesterday. Is really drip-feeding the "we're building to something, honest" storylines. Very very slowly.

(will not spoiler, because obviously no-one else is watching)

I'm watching!

HI DERE

so come on, theories. esp wrt the eerie close ups on Shaz and Ray we've had. presumably each story will be about one of the characters and get the same treatment until the resolution of all the 'big story' teasers

there's some mad speculation on den of geek
http://www.denofgeek.com/television/459519/ashes_to_ashes_series_3_episode_2_review.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/television/464400/ashes_to_ashes_series_3_episode_3_review.html

i like the idea that all these characters are in a cop 'purgatory' -- that the half-face young copper is gene as he is in the real world.

also funny spoiler to '80s themed incident of the week'
http://www.denofgeek.com/television/467840/ashes_to_ashes_series_3_episode_4_preview_gallery.html

annoying how this clashes with 'legal Lost' on Sky - which takes precedence. though i may make an exception for the A2A finale.

I shall read mad speculation shortly, but my major concern is Shaz and all the stars and the darkness and that, having seen the ending to Life on Mars USA.

Though oh god, "80s themed incident of the week" is always terrible. And that photo of Chris looks like no exception.

i did watch the first episode on iplayer and it felt like i hadn't really missed anything at all (i didn't see any of the second series). the stuff about who/what Gene is remains intriguing but at the same time dragged right out.

the distinctive logo of a well known kids show tells me i may be expecting a good LOL

i don't think they can pull the LOMUSA ending. it makes a nonsense of the Sam Tyler story. and talking of ST, surely EVERYONE is thinking he's gonna make an appearance at the end right?

I figure they are going to pin a well-known event relating to that well known kids show on Chris, which will be face-smackingly awful.

Also, aye, fully expecting the Sam turn-up at some point. The fact his actual face has been shown a couple of times in his case notes points to it, doesn't it?

I really hope they don't go down the LOMUSA ending, but the stars thing kind of worries me nonetheless.

"On 21 November 1983, the garden was again vandalised" (again!)

at the oend of LoM, did Sam look up files for Gene and find a record marked 'deceased'? i really don't recall.

I figure they are going to pin a well-known event relating to that well known kids show on Chris, which will be face-smackingly awful.

So, yes they did, and yes it was. urgh. These are almost always the worst thing about A2A, though it was still not as bad as Alex-dreams-the-Uptown-Girl-video thing a couple of weeks ago.

Still no idea where they are going. Thought Keats was going to get the "lights dim and LOM gets played" thing right at the end, but it didn't happen.

Also, I might have missed it, but has Alex COMPLETELY forgotten about Molly now, I don't recall her bleating about her at all this series?

wasn't molly's name in the graffiti? could say she's just more relaxed about M's safety.

thought Chris was going to get 'the treatment' after his assault and Keats' cover up!

Ooh, perhaps, I was all about the Gene <3 Sam graffiti, tbh, so aye, you might be right. yeah, this episode *should* have been Chris' Life On Mars moment, but the camera angles on Keats at the end when he was at the bar after Gene went off on one at him suggested, um, something. It's probably significant that Chris didn't get it, now that I think about it. I need to geek out about this more, I think. I don't quite know what to make of Keats, but it took a LOT of Life on Mars to get round to any actual exposition of the underlying themes and hints, so perhaps I'm just too impatient, expecting some sort of sense after two and a half series...

Sheepishly admits to enjoying Gene doing his thang in Uptown Girl.

My current guess is young cop with half face missing is Gene, and also that Gene's big secret that Keats is after is not that Gene killed Sam, but that Gene killed whoever killed Sam.

These are wild surmises, though.

They killed Ben Elton in 1983! This is the key to the entire series.

No this is the first time the episodes LOL80s bit has grated for me.

Spooked by ray's stars bit. They are so teasing the US ending with that dialogue but there's no way they can do it

Haha, the Ben Elton thing was utterly rubbish. And aye, Ray's stars made me really cross. It does seem to be hinging around Ray and Shaz, I thought they would all get the stars treatment, but with only a couple of weeks to go, I think it's just going to come down to Ray and Shaz.

Are we sure Sam's dead?

Right, so Gene's dead, right? And maybe Ray and Shaz as well? They've both had near-death experiences and have both had the stars, so maybe they didn't survive the fire/stabbing respectively, same as Alex might not have survived the shooting. Gene striding through the prison with no riot gear didn't look like the actions of a living human being.

And Keats is, what, a devil? Angel? St Peter?

Also, was half-face always played by Ewen Bremner and I've just not noticed until now?

I'm guessing that Keats is another time traveller--probably a bent cop that Gene catches after 1983, and who, when he dies, comes back (like the guy in series 2) but, instead of redeeming himself, sets about fucking over Gene so that Gene can never end up catching him.

And half-face cop is Gene, and Gene has been in the past so long he doesn't even remember that he's from another time (but has vague troubling memories of the original him, hece keeping the photo in his desk).

And Sam's not dead, but in hiding from something, and Gene knows this and is protecting him, which is why he's obstructive of attempts to find the truth about Sam.

I still think we're heading towards US ending tbh.

I like JM's theory above. Certainly makes this series seem a lot more interesting than it actually has been.

It's had much lesss sense of FUN than previous ones.

US ending, Keats' tapes are what bring them out of suspended animation. He showed Viv one a couple of weeks ago, hence why he died/was killed by Keats. Present day/70s/80s are different 'brain excititing' programmes to stop you from dying during suspended animation. Gene Hunt is the presonification of a disease(?), something that means you die in sus. an. and never leave the programme.

This doesn't explain why Shaz wasn't in LoM, why Annie isn't in A2A, why there were different desk sergeants or why Winston seems to be so important (but was only in LoM).

SO not going to be the US ending.

i like that we had keats and yates in that ep.

perhaps it will all turn out to be in the fevered imagination of <s>an autistic child</s> Morrisey

It's not going to be the US ending. I still reckon there's some sort of limbo between life and death - all of them have faced death and lived, unless Keats has been around to pass them over. Shaz was stabbed (and also surrounded by that gang the other week), Ray was in the fire, Chris was covered in petrol in a room with Matthew off Eastenders (the latter two were wired up to the mains last week as well), and Gene went tootling round a fucking prison riot with no riot gear for protection. And Alex has got a fucking bullet in her head. How this links to Sam, I have no idea, except that I reckon Nelson must somehow be important to it all since after nearly 3 series of A2A they thought they'd better put in a link to LoM that no-one would have guessed (but Shaz never knew him because she didn't come down from Manchester like the rest of them). I'm guessing Nelson will fancy a change of scenery since they conveniently gave Luigi an out this week and will be standing there saying "what'll you have?" to Chris at the start of next week at the bar.

Have we been reading the BBC website, btw? Keats' letters are interesting, if you want to go down the biblical/heaven and hell route:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ashestoashes/characters/jimkeats.shtml

Stoked for the madness! Also, Alex is wearing red shoes in the trailer for tonight's ep, so Wizard of Oz theory can make a revival if you so require.

bring back it's a knockout.

(oh, wait, 2012 olympics..)

NO NO NO NO NO why is Copper Purgatory so vile to me whereas if in L O S T purgatory had been the answer it would have been fine?

Seriously, I am hating this.

It isn't copper purgatory, it's copper Hades - whiskey as the waters of Lethe.

Gene hands them over to Nelson = God or Keats = The Devil. I can see where you're going with Hades, but I'd argue since they all died while actually working (none of them had a heart attack in their sleep, for example) they all fit the 'state of grace' definition of Purgatory and the default state is for them to do the last big job with Gene (which brings them to terms with their death, and why they died allowing them to pass to the pub). Hades is too neutral a theological option.

Ray wasn't killed in the line of action though, and I can't actually, for shame, remember if Sam was or not - I know he was killed getting out of his car, but was he on duty at the time?

I basically liked it, tbh, but I'm not watching LOST any more, so have no idea what comparison you're drawing. Also glad Alex left and didn't stay with Gene, thereby pissing off all the people on the internetz who wanted some Rose/fuckbuddydoctor-type resolution.

I did call the limbo thing, but for the wrong reasons.

Ray was after a fashion though, it was directly due to something that happened that day (although his description of it involves Gene being there already, ergo unreliable witness). Sam was, he was investigating his girlfriend's disappearance.

Basically, LOST has disappeared up a mystical wazoo that is nothing like the S1/S2 purgatory angle that was popular or the Man Of Science from S4/S5. With the finale impending on Friday, the purgatory aspect would be INFINITELY preferable to whatever it is going to end up being.

Settle this the old-fashioned way: is series writer Catholic? If so, Purgatory beckons. Limbo dancing prohibited.

Don't know whether they're Kaffliks or not, although their production company is called Monastic Productions. Googling that just brings hits for my beloved Bonekickers so I can't even think about looking at A2A when I cvould be reading about that.

It was pretty much the only ending they could pull off, and it was done well enough. Bit Last Battle, bit Sapphire and Steel, bit Twilight Zone, bit Dixon of Dock Green.

I loved the Dixon bit. And it occurred to me that Keats looked a bit Osbornish.

Well there's an argument to be made that the entirety of Dixon Of Dock Green is set in the LoM/A2A universe, as we know George Dixon is dead before it starts (in The Blue Lamp).

Where does Eddie Shoestring fit into all of this?

I like that the gateway to hell is in a lift, and the gateway to heaven IS A PUB

Even I liked it. A lot. Which is saying something.

Favourite moment: Keats in the car suggesting they listen to Club Tropicana on repeat all the way back. What a giveaway.

Really liked it, actually. My theories were pretty close. Didn't pick Keats as Satan, though.

Liked ending a lot. Esp. with new copper wondering where his office is and Gene looking over brochure for new Mercedes.

I like that the gateway to hell is in a lift, and the gateway to heaven IS A PUB

That was excellent, aye.

I had a thought last night. If, as it panned out, they *were* all dead when they got to Geneworld, how did Sam get back to the future (wahey, terrible reference unintentional) to write notes for Alex to read in her role as psychologist before she was shot and transferred to Geneworld?

I know it doesn't pay to overanalyse these things, but I was a little bit confused by Ray/Chris/Shaz seeming to drift in and out of self-awareness. Once they'd seen the videos they realised they were dead, didn't they? But then Shaz said something like 'I need to see my family again' and I wasn't sure if this was meant to show that she either was (or thought she was) in a coma in the real world and she still had the possibility of returning. And then when they were outside the pub their goodbyes, especially Ray's, seemed to indicate that they knew what was going on, but then as they were actually entering the pub they seemed to have forgotten everything and thought they were just going for a pint and the Guv would be joining them shortly.

Yeah, I was mulling over the same thing, Ailsa. For it to work, we have to assume that the ending of Life On Mars was as it seemed (i.e. he really did wake up from his coma, write those notes about the world he'd been in, then decided he didn't want to live any more and killed himself and returned to that world). But when I saw Life On Mars I said at the time that I didn't think he'd really woken up, he had just imagined how empty his life would have been if he had woken up and rejected it, although the script writers didn't agree with me!

Reading back, me and James seem to have pretty much nailed it between us.

. Googling that just brings hits for my beloved Bonekickers so I can't even think about looking at A2A when I cvould be reading about that.

You need help :-) You do realise Matthew Graham wrote the Fear Her ep of Doctor Who as well, which had a couple of nice gags, a decent central idea, and absolutely terrible exposition with complete hamfistedness throughout? I spot a pattern. (though him and Ashley Pharaoh also did some episodes of Hustle back when it wasn't dreadful)

xposts, NB&S, Sam's notes are the only thing he left concrete when he "returned", weren't they? And they are the only thing I can think of which ruins an otherwise decent story arc.

How come they all ended up in 1970s/80s though, the characters we saw? I buy that Sam and Alex ended up in the eras of their formative years, but we saw a very young Shaz killed not so long ago (judging by her Met uniform, which seemed very of the present-ish day). Shouldn't she have ended up in the late 80s/early 90s, soundtracked by EMF and wearing Global Hypercolour? I couldn't date Ray's death at all.

A couple more things:

1) I can't quite remember, but back in Life On Mars, when Sam used to speak to Winston in the pub, did Winstone say some things which seemed to show he was somehow more aware than the others of how things really were?

2) I'm a bit disappointed that John Simm didn't turn up in the final episode, but playing the role of The Master.

1) yes, but iirc I think I thought he was just a wise man/counsellor person. but he's called Nelson, why do loads of people (including me, but possibly just from reading other people calling him that) think he's called Winston?

2) I was waiting for him turning up - I thought he would show outside the Railway Arms, but I'm pretty glad he didn't, really.

1) I can't quite remember, but back in Life On Mars, when Sam used to speak to Winston in the pub, did Winstone say some things which seemed to show he was somehow more aware than the others of how things really were?

He did reveal to Sam that his whole Jamaican thing was put on, and he'd give Sam advice about holding on and being strong--the sort of advice that a benign but not terribly helpful god might give, to be honest.

Also liked the way the end explained why all the other coppers besides the stars were such non-entities: they were just figments of this limbo world, with only enough to them to fill the spaces where cops should be, but without personalities or even voices, really

So Keats made the decision to take Louise (? the bent copper) and Viv because they'd done wrong? I don't quite understand how they got to die in Geneworld though, if they were already dead - I'd noticed before about Gene in the riot seemingly not scared of what could be coming to him, see also Ray's bravery at the fire (and in a hostage situation in LoM, yes?) and Chris when in the house with Matthew off Eastenders. Shaz bottled her moment of bravery when she stood up to the gang, then ran away because helium-voiced "police!" didn't command enough respect. All seems a bit inconsistent, or I'm missing something obvious.

I was actually "NO! DON'T DO IT!" at Keats when he was touching Alex's face, he was a good baddie.

we saw a very young Shaz killed not so long ago (judging by her Met uniform, which seemed very of the present-ish day). Shouldn't she have ended up in the late 80s/early 90s, soundtracked by EMF and wearing Global Hypercolour? I couldn't date Ray's death at all.

I R moron (thanks internet!) - Shaz of course was listening to Oasis so around 1996/7? Was Ray watching the Jubilee - someone elsewhere has dated his death to 1977, I can't remember what his music was. Chris died in the 80s.

HOWEVER, if Shaz died before Sam but after Ray and Chris, why wasn't she doing her purgatory in Life on Mars?

I might be to blame for the Winston stuff, I think I half-remembered his name and it snowballed from there.

I thought Viv was what he had to do for Keats in order to get to go with him. The bent copper from a couple of weeks ago (from Manchester, tries to shoot Ray at the benefit concert) is odd though, because it's Gene who kills him and says something to hm before he goes. Does the fact he's bent mean he's automatically gone to Keats' side? If so, what does that mean about Chris from the end of series 2, when he was taking money from the gold thieves? What about Ray from the start of S2, when he was in the Masons with Supermac? If the man with the roses from S2 is another aspect of Keats, doesn't Alex join him when she kills that copper and hides him in the sewer? This answer only works if you look at S2 of A2A, and very carefully cherry-pick the rest. How was everyone able to end up in the Railway Arms every episode of LoM without it being heaven? If we say only the main characters are important, why didn't Ray and Chris end up in heaven after the train robbery at the end of LoM? In fact, we know Sam explicitly doesn't, because Gene kills him at a different time according to A2A. Where does the guy who claimed to be Sam in S3Ep6 fit into it?

LoM ending that's consistent with the plot from the end of A2A: Sam going back to the modern day is his Keats moment. The weight of suspicion against Gene makes him run into the tunnel and into hell, which for him is the reality of modern policework. Somehow (maybe it's nothing more complicated than, like Ray, Shaz and Chris, getting to the lift doors and changing your mind when you hear the scary noises) he changes his mind and gets back (like they do in the finale). It doesn't explain how Alex has his notes though.

both sam and alex got back to the real world. they're not actually dead the first time - just in a coma - and that special between worlds state is what keeps them remembering reality.

the era of the consensual reality is anchored by Gene's continued existence - both Sam and ALex made him want to progress - but the details (Ben Elton being shot dead) are supplied by the others.

'How was everyone able to end up in the Railway Arms every episode of LoM without it being heaven?'
it's not the same Railway Arms - it's one way Gene imagines cop nirvana. he left it behind when he moved on to the 80s/London, but then brought it back, against world logic, so that his charges could themselves move on.

But Alex was dead and didn't go back to the real world, wasn't that the point about the time on Keats' watch? That bit at the end of the last series when Gene shot her and she thought she'd got home, wasn't that just a trick as well? How long are they in this coma for, Chris and Ray went from 1973 to 1983 with Gene, and Sam got to 1980, even Alex had three years of it.

I think Alex was in a coma initially, as was Sam. Whether either of them ever came back is debatable - I would say Alex didn't (she was actually dead by that point), but Sam might have done. How long they were in a coma for doesn't really matter - there's no reason to think that time in Gene's world matches up with time in the real world.

No, you're right, was just trying to make some sense of Alan's reasoning. So Sam was in a coma, he didn't die, he got better, but in his coma he had the whole Geneworld thing then when he decided to kill himself he got to go back to Geneworld? I think I can live with that. I don't think Alex got back, no.

it's not the same Railway Arms - it's one way Gene imagines cop nirvana. he left it behind when he moved on to the 80s/London, but then brought it back, against world logic, so that his charges could themselves move on.

Except it clearly is, because as somebody else remembers from LoM about Nelson, "He did reveal to Sam that his whole Jamaican thing was put on, and he'd give Sam advice about holding on and being strong--the sort of advice that a benign but not terribly helpful god might give, to be honest.".

Coma victims being in Purgatory would be an... interesting... theological question, no?

But surely he'd be all omnipresent and that. The outside of the pub looked different, it looked like a London pub in A2A, but it was more a redbrick northern pub in LoM, aye?

xpost, oh aye, perhaps Sam was actually clinically dead for a bit then, but was revived, but lived a couple of years with Gene in the 70s in that moment.

Aye, it was a regular red brick pub in LoM. The Italian performs the same function in A2A as we thought the pub did in LoM.

I'd be quite happy with it being Gene's idea of Heaven in A2A, and him just trying to make something familiar for Chris and Ray, if it wasn't for the fact Nelson did what he did in LoM with "I'm not really Jamaican" and knowing what was happening. He's not the same as Luigi.

But why then did he invent Luigi's, it surely wasn't the kind of place they'd be familiar and comfortable with, or was it just somewhere he could flirt with Alex where she'd be happier? He could have found a different Railway Arms type place for them. I remember commenting back at the start of this thread two years and three series ago that Gene really wasn't the wine bar type.

Yeah, I think it's more supposed to be somewhere Alex thinks would exist in the 80s, plus she lives above it, remember? I can't recall where Sam stays in LoM, isn't it somewhere Gene puts him?

Just read this somewhere else, I am not a walking A2A wiki: at the end of series one, it was Gene who picked up little Alex after her dad had killed her mum and she'd escaped. But it CAN'T have been Gene as that was 1981 and he'd been dead since 1953.

That's simple, none of the events in the series actually happen, they're created by God/Gene/The Devil to enable the characters to move on one way or the other. Being simplistic about it, it suited Alex's character development (in terms of working her way through Purgatory) to believe everything was linked together. See also Annie in LoM who was assaulted by Sam's father in Purgatory 1973, but given what we know now was probably killed him in the real 1973.

Ah, OK. Simple...

I might have to watch them all from the start again to see when they decided this was the way it was going to end.

Just re-reading the Life on Mars thread, and Alan wins:

it will end with Sam in a bar talking to the barman who turns out to be god. or something.
― Alan, Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:33 AM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Having been pretty much ho-hum & indifferent about the series so far, I thought it was a brilliant, and rather moving, last episode. (& with George Dixon- am I the only ILXer who can remember DoDG actually being shown on Sat Night Telly? Loadsa loose ends, most of which other people have mentioned. Still well confused about fate of Annie in LoM & the bloke who was claiming to be Sam this series, but whatever. Other endings were filmed though - I think just the scenes outside the pub - not sure what they were.

I might have to watch them all from the start again to see when they decided this was the way it was going to end.

I doubt this ending was intended from the start. I wouldn't have thought Ashes To Ashes had been conceived of before Life On Mars was filmed, for one thing. And when I saw the end of the first series of Life On Mars I definitely got the feeling that they'd probably shot two different endings depending on whether a second series was commissioned or not (i.e. if it hadn't been, then it would have ended with Sam waking up having solved the riddle of his Dad's disappearance).

Holy jebus! I was totally thinking of Quantum Leap in that instance mind

am I the only ILXer who can remember DoDG actually being shown on Sat Night Telly?

Nope. Explained that bit to wife who was all "Oh, is That what Dixon of Dock Green was like?"

I didn't really keep up with the show since Life on Mars ended, but it did seem to be the better "revision of The Prisoner style of elliptical storytelling" than the actual revival of "The Prisoner"

As I implied up there, it's almost certainly an attempt to co-opt DoDG into the LoM/A2A universe (given George is dead before the DoDg series starts).

Just reading up on DoDG - Jack Warner was 80 (born 1896!) when the last series ran in 1976. I thought it stopped around 1971-2. 432 episodes, jeez.

Was he still in it then? I got the impression he was a "top 'n tail, and a walkon maybe" by then.

I think he was Desk Sarge but all the action revolved around Sgt Andy Crawford.

As I implied up there, it's almost certainly an attempt to co-opt DoDG into the LoM/A2A universe (given George is dead before the DoDg series starts).

I didn't realise this at the time, but now I've read up on it, I think that's definitely the intention.

See? I'm not just here for arguments.

never finished watching S2, have just stuck on ep 1 of S3; lol :D at Sex On Fire being used to illustrate how dull and dire being back in the present-day "real world" is