BBC Radio Music 6 - Wasted Opportunity?

When is there going to be a music radio station that caters for the likes of me

The Reynolds Girls asked the very same question back in '88.

its not that bad.

lol anglophile

... in a song which was a devastating attack on the AOR-heavy Radio 1 that 6 Music seems, at least from the review in today's Guardian, to be a virtual recreation of. I mean if you're reduced to hiring Liz Kershaw you must be *really* desperate.

-- Robin Carmody, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.christian-greeting-cards.com/ek5.jpg

^^^ Very reminiscent of a swastika that jogger.

Crispian Mills likes that jogger.

Re. the Simon Reynolds Girls and their heartfelt question of "Why is the DJ on my radio station always more than twice the age of me?" written by a lyricist who was more than twice the age of the Reynolds Girls - ah well, never mind...

I'm kind of fifty-fifty on Jacking and Fleetwood Macking nowadays.

I wonder if the Reynolds Girls ever met Yazz, who was namechecked (positively) in the song?

This song came too late to be parodied by the Shire Horses, a shame given its potential.

I remember seeing Pete Waterman interviewed on TV admitting that he'd "got it wrong" by working with the Reynolds Girls.

At the time the Reynolds Girls admitted in Smash Hits that they quite liked Fleetwood Mac.

Waterman originally intended the song for Mel and Kim but due to Mel's illness he couldn't record it with them.

However, as I'm sure I've mentioned on ILM before, I did play the song to a member of Fleetwood Mac who laughed out loud and loved it.

Can anyone explain to me how George Lamb got a radio show on 6music?

Or, indeed, how he got a radio show anywhere?

Becuase he's signed to John Gay Management, who as you may have noticed actually run Britain.

They obviously have the dirt on whoever runs 6music.

*Noel Gay.

Apparently Mr Lamb is "fit."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7238444.stm

Digital radio has proved a sort of Sinclair C5 for the noughties, really.

:(

I like it, tho.

I have a DAB radio but never use it. My dads old car had a DAB radio and it got played then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/feb/18/bbc.radio

6Music boss on why anyone who doesn't like George Lamb hates women.

I thought Douglas was still running R2.

Usual condescending misogynist attitude towards women of course, no less so for being uttered by a woman.

Maybe she should bring back Judi Spiers for two hours of cosy knitting and Kenny Rogers.

It's a bizarre idea though, that Lamb's sub-Tim Lovejoy routine is actually going to draw in more female listeners.

Maybe they ought to get a controller aged less than 65.

Make Lamacq controller. At least it'd be funny.

If unlistenable.

Watch out for the special three-hour retrospective on the Sect!

Thursday is SWERVEDRIVER DAY.

"And, errr, coming up later we have Frigid Vinegar and The Vandals in session"

Coming up at five minutes before the hour of...Jim Bob's Lost Budgie spot.

Lesley Douglas = the most despicable radio controller of the millenium

That's one in the eye for Lord Haw-Haw

Do you have a top 5 list marty?

PROPOSED DAILY MAIL SOLUTION

BBC Radio stations to REVERT to NORMAL CHARTERED STATUS

Radio 2 to return to STRICT STOUT HESSIAN DIET of DEREK JAMESON and RAY CONNIFF

All Radio 2 ROCK content to return to PROPER HOME of RADIO 1

Current RADIO 1 line-up to be PRIVATISED and sold off to HIGHEST BIDDER under exciting new BRAND NAME of RADIO ASBO

WESTWOOD to undergo PUBLIC CRUCIFIXION for warping minds of HITHERTO INNOCENT NOW FERAL YOUTH

Undervalued Conservative stalwart JOHN SPOCK REDWOOD to be installed as NEW ANDROID BBC CONTROLLER

dingbod that parody is more like Starry livejournal speak

Y'see, women like music on an emotional level. So, are more likely to switch over if Einsturzende Neubaten are being played.

Was Gideon Coe that great?

I listened a few times, but he didn't really register with me on an emotional level.

OE NOE! I IS TURNING INTO A WOMAN!!!

Lesley Dougiedonnelly's idea of music women like:
Dido
Beverley Craven
Barbara Dickson
Corinne Derek Bailey Jesse Rae
Gabrielle
Adele Duffy
Duffy Adele
Amy Winebar
Nickelback
Kate E Mellower
Kate E Turnstile
Kate E Gnash
Kate E Rusby
Elk E Brooks
Amy McMumble
Dorothy Squires
LEON

Gideon Coe is a standard middle aged bloke DJ you'd expect to find on 6music, but at least he isn't a blithering idiot like Lamb.

http://www.superberries.co.uk/graphics/content/features/george_lamb/main.jpg

"lol girls are thickies"

Oh god, so hateful.

Gideon Coe fails to fulfill 6Music standards of fit:

http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/onebigweekend/images/6-Music-Gideon-Coe-1.jpg

A good face for 6music!

How long before 6Music gets rid of the music content?

"Research has shown that the 'music' was putting women off listening to 6Music" announced Lesley Dougefresh at a press conference earlier today.

bring back ugliness as a requisite of radio presenting. the ladies loved the whispering cornflake.

How can a 40something woman whose music interests include Bruce Springsteen and Paul Weller know if George Lamb is Kosher when it comes to "Rave and dance" Rave? it's not 1992 !

"If you heard George talking about rave and dance there is a passion. It's less intellectual an approach to music but it's still about passion and love of music at its heart." (Lesley Douglas)

George Lamb - when does his mid morning show reflect "rave and dance" expertise?

This woman is digging deeper and deeper and making an utter fool of herself.

Thank god for the Freakzone and Marc Riley.

Lesley Douglas is Controller of Radio 2, and 6 Music (from January 2004) and from May 2007 was appointed Controller, BBC Popular Music

BBC - Press Office - Radio 2 head appointed Controller BBC Popular Music

So how many jobs is this woman doing?

Head of Popular Music, BBC Radio
Radio 2 - Station Controller
6 Music - Station Controller
6 Music - Acting Head of Programmes - as Blaxill hasn't been replaced

"If you heard George talking about rave and dance there is a passion. It's less intellectual an approach to music but it's still about passion and love of Lesley Douglas music at its heart."

Who's fault are the Queens of Noise, out of interest? Listening to that shit is like being trapped at a party where you're the only one not on coke.

Are you suggesting that LD could be Saucing it with Lamb? Mutton attracted to Lamb?

top story: Ian Botham to join George Lamb as co-presenter of 6Music brekkie show. but can he still eat three shredded wheats?

George Lamb apparently thought The Sugarcubes sounded a bit like Bjork

Re Queens of Noize: They're annoying, but they do actually play some good records between namedropping celebs they've DJed for.

They have also released their own single, "Indie Boys (Don't Deserve It)", to little critical or commercial success.

LD is attracting the wrath of women listeners on the 6 music Message Board.

Time of the month, probably

On Sundays, I like Jon Richardson but not so much Russell Howard

Current RADIO 1 line-up to be PRIVATISED and sold off to HIGHEST BIDDER under exciting new BRAND NAME of RADIO ASBO

uh... http://www.radioasbo.org/

lol @ this thread, thanks for that.

george lamb is a gimp who knows feck-all about the music he's playing, and the one thing 6music was always meant to do was reflect passion, both emotional and intellectual, for music.

that said, i bought a dab just to get 6 and i'm largely glad i did. it just pissed me off i have to switch off for half the day.

I really enjoyed the Gideon Coe show during my year at home as a house husband, his presentation and choice of music was great for me, and he seemed to have an enthusiasm for music old and new which was infectious, and me and my (baby) boy used to send in texts to him for music choices, and he'd play them and mention my boy in passing too - which would always make him smile at the radio.

However I just hate George Lamb, he seems to know nothing about what he's playing and doesn't sound like he cares either. I miss Gideon's show, but I'm certainly not sad that I'm missing Lamb's show every day now I'm back in work.

this is as good a thread as any for this: http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2258116,00.html

Lost in music

Do women go for emotional ballads and James Blunt? Are men more likely to obsess over Iron Maiden B-sides? Laura Barton wonders if we really do listen to music differently

Wednesday February 20, 2008
The Guardian

On the morning of the first Saturday in February I was in Porthmadog, standing in Cob Records. For the hour that I spent there with my father, silently flicking through the racks, I was the only woman in the shop. I bought a record called Purple Pills - a collection of long-forgotten British garage acts from the 1960s, and replaced my cassettes of Teenage Fanclub's 13 and Neil Young's After the Gold Rush. My dad chose a collection by the Band. It was a perfect morning, a reminder of my younger years, when we visited record fairs together, hunting through piles of Van Morrison bootlegs and old Thelonious Monk records.

Article continues
But were we flicking through the racks differently? Were we fulfilling different musical cravings; was I, as a woman, likely to find something different in Neil Young, than my father would glean from the Band? Do women and men listen to music differently?

Earlier this week, the co-ordinator of the BBC's popular music coverage across TV and radio, Lesley Douglas, ventured an opinion on this very subject. Appearing on Radio 4's Feedback programme to defend recent changes to BBC 6 Music, she explained that many of the changes, such as the addition of more "personality" DJs, were instigated to entice female listeners. There was, she argued, "no reason why women shouldn't love music as much as men" and further explained: "What was true is that for its first five years the audience [for 6 Music] was very, very male biased. For a station that has music at its heart, it is only right to make it more open to female listeners. It's partly how you talk about music. For women, there tends to be a more emotional reaction to music. Men tend to be more interested in the intellectual side: the tracks, where albums have been made, that sort of thing."

6 Music is one of the greatest delights of the dial, a digital station steeped in a love of music. It boasts DJs such as Marc Riley, Stuart Maconie and Steve Lamacq, and a playlist that currently embraces Band of Horses, Vampire Weekend, Foals and Lykke Li. I would sooner listen to it than any of the BBC's other music stations. But it is undeniable that most of its 500,000 listeners are male. Are female audiences really deterred by all this talk of tracks and recording studios?

People, not just men and women, listen to music differently. My father and I, standing in Cob Records that morning, may have been listening to the same songs through the shop's speaker system, but there existed a far greater gulf between us than gender. I am a lyrics person and he a music person. Ask him how the chorus goes and he'll whistle you a tune; ask me, and I'll sing you the words. Broadly speaking, I suspect that women and men do respond to music a little differently. Naturally there are millions of exceptions: I know plenty of women who are obsessive collectors of vinyl, and I once dated a man who owned only three albums, two of which were by Jewel. But, by and large, men more often adhere to the High Fidelity model of music appreciation: completist and competitive, as if you score more league table points for knowing the greatest amount of trivia about a band and owning all of its releases - even the Japan-only 7in singles and the flexidiscs. Women, on the other hand, are perfectly at ease with the idea of falling madly in love with one song, and never feeling the need to vacuum up the artist's entire back catalogue.

If we are to cautiously agree that women are more at ease with discussing emotions, and therefore more comfortable with the idea of embracing their emotional response to music, then it is logical to assume that the songs which aim for the emotional jugular might appeal more to women than to men. How else to explain James Blunt? This is not to say that men do not have an emotional response to music, rather that the emotion is expressed differently. In Nick Coleman's excellent article about how his partial hearing loss has affected his relationship with music, published in G2 yesterday, he wrote that he had always heard music three-dimensionally, architecturally: "I think music was the structure in which I learned to contain and then examine emotion." I would further suggest that the framework of music appreciation, the lists and the cataloguing, the trivia and the multiple copies of The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust, gives men another kind of structure through which to examine their emotions.

The problem - and it is one exacerbated by Douglas's opposition of "emotional" and "intellectual" responses to music - is that there prevails a notion that to take anything other than a masculine, cataloguing approach to music is a weakness; that loving the way Bob Dylan sings the line "And I was standin' on the side of the road/ Rain fallin' on my shoes" in Tangled Up in Blue is somehow not as important as knowing where he recorded that song (his farm in Minnesota, in the winter of 1974) or countless other facts (that it was originally composed in the key of E, later changed to A, for example). I know these things, but they don't matter that much to me. Should a total recall of labels and recording studios and session musicians and chord changes really be described as "intellectual"? We might just as easily call it "clinical".

Over the years, music has existed as a no-go area for a lot of women - like the pigeon coop and the garden shed; indeed, much as the public house used to be. And so it is pleasing that 6 Music should be eager to beckon us inside. But we don't need personality DJs to hold our dainty little hands, we don't need catchphrases, or phone-ins, or more songs by Carly Simon. What we do need is to feel that our presence, and our way of responding to music, is welcome.

So bring in more female presenters (there are, you might note, more male than female DJs on the station - Liz Kershaw, Nemone, Queens of Noize, among them), and bring in women who, as with Stephen Merchant, are well known names who just happen to love music. Reflect the fact that we are just as obsessed and infatuated as men. We love music just as hard. It's just that we don't exhibit that obsession, that love, through an alphabetised record collection. You want to know how I store my records? I put the ones next to each other that I think would be friends. I suppose you could call that emotional; I call it womanly.

Already discussed here: Swash Dogs and Diet Coke Heads: the 2008 rolling Guardian zing thread

Yeah, and that whole article is fair enough and good. However, that thread zooooooms in on that last sentence! which is somewhat unfair.

Speedread edit ahoy:

On the morning of February I was in my father, the only Thelonious Monk.

But were we fulfilling Neil Young? Do women and men listen to Lesley Douglas to defend male biased delights steeped in Steve Lamacq, Vampire?

People, not just father and I, standing in a far greater gulf between Jewel and falling madly in love with one vacuum up the artist's entire jugular. How else to explain James Blunt? This is not to say that men do not have multiple copies of The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust.

The problem - and it is one exacerbated by weakness; that loving Bob Dylan on the side of the road is somehow not as important as knowing the pigeon coop and the garden shed; indeed, much as the public house used to be. And so it is pleasing that Carly Simon, and Liz Kershaw, are well known names just as hard. It's just that we don't exhibit my friends.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8275056046&ref=nf

Starts quite well, but ends up philosophically confused.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/MisterKrister/vizterry.jpg

Nicholas De Lacy-Brown on standby to take over The Freak Zone.

Controller Lesley Douglas Bader said: "We have concerns that the music played during The Freak Zone is deterring normal people from tuning in. Following a thorough focus group review, we are pioneeringly repositioning the show to feature a more attractive and representative selection of contemporary music, including Newton Faulkner, Adele, Duffy and 'Rock The Casbah.'"

This dramatic shift has been welcomed by Guardian Film and Music Editor Michael Hann, who quipped: "Thank heavens someone is standing up for NORMAL music lovers, instead of those weirdos who prefer Tusk to Rumours or listen to music I have never heard of. Such perverts are a clear danger to society and KEEP THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY KIDS NORMAL MUSIC PROVIDING A SERVICE FOR REAL LOCAL PEOPLE (cont. p. 1975)"

Haha just spent five minutes searching djmartian threads, on the assumption he started this one, to post that strip

I had the misfortune to hear Lamb this morning. He was baffling whichever terrible indie band were in the studio with ill-judged banter. Really painful, I was forced to switch to Jo Whiley, who was to my surprise playing the Stereophonics.

Thank goodness I switched over to Ken Bruce's Bonnie Wee Popmaster Quiz all those years ago.

Yes, I should have known better, I admit.

people still listen to the radio?

It's that or Relocate My Dog Diets in the evening.

This is now pretty much the only radio station that gets played in my office, after years of no radio at all. It's perfectly listenable in the afternoons and Lamacq is still a vaguely comforting presence in a lol 90s way, but seriously, fuck George Lamb with an axe.

It is pretty good. Although Radio 2 on New Year's Eve was fantastic (mainly because the presenters basically just shut up and played their favourite songs)

Recently The Arrow has catered to my rock radio needs. Added bonus of no deejays.

TBH I wouldn't have bumped this thread had they not been playing I Feel Space at lunchtime yesterday.

This woman is digging deeper and deeper and making an utter fool of herself.
― djmartian, Tuesday, 19 February 2008

I didn't know that Barton had written such a disgusting, egotistical pile of crap in response to the 'women are emotional' debacle. Now I do.

Are you suggesting that LD could be Saucing it with Lamb? Mutton attracted to Lamb?
― djmartian, Tuesday, 19 February 2008

End times.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article7041944.ece

A sacrificial offering to the Tory/News Corp gods.

It was drawn up by the corporation’s director of policy and strategy, John Tate, a former head of the Conservative policy unit, who co-wrote the party’s 2005 manifesto with David Cameron. It will be seen as an attempt to show a potential Tory government that the BBC understands the effect the deep advertising recession has had on commercial rivals and that it does not need outside intervention to get its house in order.

i'm way more sad about losing bbc asian network, that was a total treasure.

fuck commercial tv and radio stations. I'd rather they died.

that BBC Three lives on while anything of the remotest worth dies makes me wanna vote BNP. They'll save our mildly interesting radio stations.

In a wideranging strategic review, he will announce the closure of the digital radio stations 6 Music and Asian Network and introduce a cap on spending on broadcast rights for sports events of 8.5 per cent of the licence fee, or about £300 million.

He will also pledge to close BBC Switch and Blast!, leaving the lucrative teenage market to ITV and Channel 4. But BBC Three, which is aimed at 16 to 35-year-olds will not be touched.

...

With the closure of 6 Music, which has an average listener age of 35, and an undertaking to bring more documentaries and comedy to Radio 2, the BBC will also pledge to allow commercial stations to be the main providers of popular music to listeners aged 30 to 50. There will be complaints about the decision to cull 6 Music, which has a small but fervent fan base. Music industry tastemakers revere it as a credible outlet for “real music” but a review last month showed that only 20 per cent of adults knew that the station existed.

I do kinda like the station itself, but I kinda want to set up a "Fuck BBC 6Music" Facebook group in reaction to every single one of my friends joining the "Save BBC 6Music" group.

Before I discovered ILX, I used to be a fairly regular listener to Liz Kershaw's prog. Around that time, I remember:

1) Interview and session with Wreckless Eric, in which he proved that his new stuff was pretty blinding.
2) Interview with Kim Fowley, daft old get, "you remind me of a young Diana Dors!" (to which she replied "some peoplpe have said that, thanks..")
3) the ease of entering competitions / 'fun' punchline comps, one time I won 2 Who re-release CDs which was very nice, and Joe Strummer's first posthumous new one (of which I didn't remember entering the comp at all)

Of course, this was all pre-premium phonelines and suchlike....

fucking hell. DAB is really dead now isn't it.

and er... 50% reduction in web presence..??? yikes

What does 50% reduction in web presence entail?

I would like someone, anyone other than the Guardian to go on the attack about how the Tories have essentially outsourced their media policy to News International. Presumably the Mirror can't be arsed to pick that fight and the Mail would rather see the BBC go down then take on The Sun?

This is almost worth voting Tory for.

And yeah, scrapping BBC3 seems like a way better option, given that there's no reason whatsoever why any of that channel's best programming shouldn't be on one of the two main channels.

What does 50% reduction in web presence entail?

i doubt anyone really knows. but FM&T do make an awful lot of web sites. this will be bad for the whole web industry. note how they say 25% reduction in web staff but 50% reduction in web presence i.e. that other 25% is indies.

I'm down with shutting BBC3 and killing everybody involved and their families, too.

Yeah, but they're more likely to kill off BBC4, aren't they?

6Music annual budget: £6mn.
BBC3 annual budget: £83mn.

Solution: close BBC3 and open up BBC 7Music though 20Music.

xpost

Nah, don't think so at all. BBC4 slots nicely into yr Reithian values plus middle class demographic plus they show the odd programme that doesn't make me call for the death of everybody involved plus their families.

In other words BBC4 shows stuff that mostly wouldn't be covered elsewhere by commercial morons and scum channels.

On the other hand I'm sure the grown-up indie kids of this world will find other ways to listen to music they've already owned for 15 years.

It's Steve Lamacq I'm worried about. The crisps and cider fund is bound to take a hit.

Assume Lamacq can eke out another 6-10 doing PAs at student discos.

God knows what peeps who desperately need to hear Jesus Jones on the radio are gonna do tho.

I never listen to the radio, but if I did, I wouldn't listen to 6Music.

So basically, Gideon Coe can suck my titties.

I'm sure the grown-up indie kids of this world will find other ways to listen to music they've already owned for 15 years.

looooooooooooool

re BBC Three, nothing has made me resent paying the license fee more than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwRhV7rRVd8

or at least that's what I was thinking till I realised that what I was really angry at was just that anyone was getting any money for this, mine or otherwise.

(probably NSFW.)

more details here - http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article7041826.ece

Mr Thompson will say that the corporation will stop chasing ratings and instead focus on ensuring that output across its services is of the highest possible quality.

BBC1 94% fucked then?

Is it necessarily the case that reviews spur all the changes they recommend?

I understand that the BBC feel a compulsive responsibility to cater to the ketamine demographic, but these people will watch literally ANYTHING, so do they really need to spend actual money on making new god-fucking-awful programmes? Can't they just show back to back repeats of Cheers and Danny Dyer forever?

RT @popjustice Note to BBC Asian Network - play more Mumford & Sons if you want a trending topic

That Times article would be worth heavily lol-quoting but it's The Times.

BBC Two: Janice Hadlow, the channel’s controller, will be given a £25 million boost to her £450 million budget and ordered to take the channel upmarket. It will become the home of intelligent programming, with more edgy drama about the state of the nation, like last year’s Freefall, which told the story of the credit crunch from a variety of perspectives.

BBC Four: Comedy and entertainment will be drastically reduced, in favour of high-end documentaries

er, so apparently "high quality" means "documentaries on BBC 4 and drama on BBC two"

i'd prefer to see comedy and entertainment also get a high-quality boost, rather than just being axed

but yes, "upmarket" is clearly the zeitgeist these days......

o_O

like I said, consider the source.

Agree that not buying stuff like The Wire in favour of home-growing some shit drama about THE CREDIT CRUNCH doesn't seem v. clever tho

"Parts of the website that have no clear links to programming will be dispensed with entirely."

???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! excepting all the student study tools, presumably, but still!!!!! they're getting rid of this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/

this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/

wtf

I listen to 6Music in the mornings some times, last time I did so they played the Longpigs, which just about says it all, at least about their general playlisting. They also advertised a show hosted by Huey from the Fun Lovin' Criminals, in which he did his "ey fuggedaboutit, I'm from New Yoik ya toikey" schtick. It was like the shitty Evening Session 1990s all over again.

Having said that, I'll miss stuff like the Freakzone and that Jarvis Cocker show that was on recently.

The web content has been heavily pared back before, right?

You have to look at this as a pre-emptive grovel to prospective Tory government but suzy was right review /= action

Tracer I'm not really sure why those websites need to be produced by the BBC though? I mean, why does the BBC need a healthy living website? What is it providing that the hundreds of other similar sites aren't?

This strikes me as being less about saving money and more about making the BBC less directly competitive with the private sector. It's not as cut and dried as that though, given the number of private sector providers to the BBC who will suffer as part of this.

I wasn't aware that BBC Four had comedy other than Flight of the Conchords, and since it's done that would indeed constitute a drastic reduction.

The Thick of It, anything with Jonathan Meades

Why can't these programmes be on BBC1 and BBC2 though? The BBC doesn't have enough to fill the schedules for those two channels as it is.

Because they daren't 'risk' it.

So, they "try" them on BBC3, and if they get success, they get a shift over.

Otherwise they stick to guaranteed "safe" ones like Miranda, and suchlike.

Miranda was fucking awesome and I'll knife anybody who says otherwise.

Matt I agree really it's not like there isn't enough shoite on the terrestrial channels to clear out some space for good shows.

xp The Persuasionists must be the exception that proves that rule.

Wasn't saying anything about Miranda. Never watched it, so wouldn't know.

But, as I say, BBC3 is there for unknown quantities, new writers, etc.

Or, it should be.

"Miranda was fucking awesome and I'll knife anybody who says otherwise."

phew i thought this was just me.

Kept meaning to come out on the rolling comedy thread.

Writing was MOR at best but her performance, kinda channelling Frankie Howerd, made it total genius.

times says radio 1 is to be tied more closely to 1xtra! this is a +ve i feel

Maybe that means they'll start playing Cheryl Cole on 1xtra.

Because they daren't 'risk' it.

So, they "try" them on BBC3, and if they get success, they get a shift over.

Seriously though? What was there about Being Human or early Gavin & Stacey that suggested that it would be too much for the BBC1/BBC2 audience to handle? Seems more that they needed something to stick on BBC3 in the first place to make people watch it.

Because James Corben and Ruth Jones had no track record as such, and no 'friends' in high enough places for a green light.

Surely, it was only after G&S got made that people could see how good it was.

G&S is shit but BBC2 have premiered tons of shit sitcoms in the past.

I'm sort of torn on this in that 6music is a really enjoyable radio station vs. ageing indie kids are not really a demographic wide enough to deserve their own dedicated BBC radio station.

are there listening stats some1 lss lazy than i could post? i doubt r4 gets that many listeners, nor 1extra.

My guess would be in terms of listening R2 > R1 > R5 > R4 > R6 > R3

It's only £6m and it's basically the only station I can tolerate at work because at its worst it's still ignorable.

I mean ffs, this is the late night BBC3 schedule:

Dancing on Wheels
3/6. Two couples must perform the paso doble while the other two dance the Viennese waltz. (R)

Snog Marry Avoid?
4/12. POD transports Bolton Becky from her Magaluf sunbed to the studio. (R)

Hotter Than My Daughter
4/6. 20-year-old Keely is embarrassed by mum Lesley's attention-grabbing style and behaviour. (R)

Nicola Roberts: The Truth About Tanning
Nicola Roberts explores the dangerous culture of tanning amongst young people in the UK. (R)

Surely over a year there's £6m in savings there?

if they cancel family guy im doing a charles moore

We were wrong about Radio 4.

R1 - 10.763m
R2 - 13.473m
R3 - 1.874m
R4 - 9.841m
Five Live incl. Sports Extra - 6.188m
6Music - 695k
1Xtra - 531k
Radio 7 - 931k (!!!)
Asian Network - 360k

not surprised (and pleased) that 3 is more popular than 6

Radio 3 is genuinely unique though. There isn't another station in the country (and possibly in the world) that does what it does.

Semi surprised to see its listening figures as low as that but I suppose 6music competes with lastfm/spotify as much as it does any broadcast radio stations, so maybe it isn't really worth the money?

Even if that money is one thirteenth that of BBC3's budget. Grrr TwoPintsOfLager grrr.

That kind of money paid for ONE Jonathan Ross for ONE year.

Radio 3 is genuinely unique though. There isn't another station in the country (and possibly in the world) that does what it does.

― Matt DC, Friday, February 26, 2010 12:47 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

classic fm??

(sense r3 listeners would want to kill me for that)

>Writing was MOR at best but her performance, kinda channelling Frankie Howerd, made it total genius.

THIS. My wife started watching it, against my complaints, and within a couple of episodes I was stanning it in the office.

don't think i could get past Miranda talking to camera. had to turn it off after the first 30 seconds.

she is very funny but god that whole style is like it's been designed by robots to make me hate it

R7 is an absolute treasure

Nice to see Daily Mail readers revealing the bigger picture here:

There has NEVER been a good reason for ever having an Asian Network paid for by the TV licence payer.

An 'Anglo Saxon' radio station would never be tolerated, neither would a 'White British' channel be tolerated by the powers that be. And for goodness sake, even England doesn't merit a radio channel of its own although Wales, Scotland and NI do! So why on earth the Asian community should be so specially treated is a mystery.

Or is it?

- Alan, Bewdley, Worcs, 26/2/2010 9:49
Rating 83

Or is it?

I would listen to BBC Anglo-Saxon Network. All Germanic battle-folk all the time!

England doesn't merit a radio channel of its own

Apart from the nine national stations and the 40-plus local ones.

Alan, Bewdley, Worcs, is a real winner.

Yes, why can't the PC thugs let us have a BRITISH broadcasting c... oh.

(I wasn't even aware of the existence of radio 7, by the way. And does radio 3 have anything good since Mixing It went?)

And does radio 3 have anything good since Mixing It went?

im told it plays a large quantity of classical music.

radio 3 fkn pwns 24/7

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tp43

are there any arguments against the license fee that aren't founded on disgust at further saturation of new corporation and its aesthetics?

it's a hangover from the state monopoly on broadcasting...?

i think it's worth keeping on pragmatic grounds, but it would be intellectually difficult to argue for its existence from zero.

fuck pls replace AGAINST with FOR xxpost

I think the Tories, if they get in, will quietly back out of getting into a prolonged fight with the BBC, because if this is anything to go by they'll come up against a hell of a lot of opposition once they start tinkering with the bits people actually care about.

i think it's worth keeping on pragmatic grounds

the pragmatic argument 'x worth license fee alone' being less pragmatic than just having direct state funding for the small amounnt of commercially unfeasible bbc content

Radio 3 = Late Junction (which covers the 'eclectic' bits that 'Mixing it' used to), Night Waves, The essay, they broadcast radio plays, documentaries, music education programmes...they don't broadcast enough contemporary classical (which classic fm wouldn't go near in a billion years) so its by no means perfect.

BBC asian network was never as widely publicised as 1xtra? Hopefully they can merge some of its programming onto it? I was getting into it.

direct state funding means it's controlled by departments that are ultimately run by politicians - the bbc is insulated from that because of the bbc trust - not perfectly, but it works pretty well

i probably have a wider span of programming in mind -- it does a lot of things that "could" be done commercially, but would be done a lot less well. so my defence of it is properly conservative, though a lot of the things i like are the things the tories would want to destroy.

xpost

direct state funding means it's controlled by departments that are ultimately run by politicians - the bbc is insulated from that because of the bbc trust - not perfectly, but it works pretty well

though if the remit were limited to the resolutely noncommercial (maybe 20% of bbc4, 60% of radio3) then what would politicians have to attack it, beyond parroting the obscurantism charges levelled against all state arts funding

It would involve either the loss of, or the loss in independence of, BBC News, the BBC World Service, etc. And BBC news is still up there as among the best in the world.

i don't know why you'd want to do that, other than sheer political dogma. most of britain's institutions have their faults or are based on the conservative principle -- from jury trials to parliament itself. what would prompt such a drastic measure? most people basically like the bbc.

xpost

and what matt said. the bbc is respected and envied in other countries, and its news especially. there's not such thing as impartial, but the bbc does it better than any commercial outlet anywhere.

can you argue that any bbc news content couldn't be provided by someone else?

Outside of Reuters I can't think of many commercial broadcasters who would or could retain a network of international journalists on the sheer scale of the BBC.

yeah the foreign desks are one huge thing that sets the bbc apart. those correspondents feed into any and every programme that wants to use them. i mean we don't have to argue it, it's evident. there's nothing else that even attempts to be newsnight or the today programme.

and try pitching this to a commercial station:

A Cloud in a Paper Bag: This drama-documentary by biographer Richard Holmes tells the story of the first decades of ballooning in the early 1800s.

Today's sport was then a scientific revolution underwritten with poetry. Getting up and staying aloft was a huge challenge, and what the pioneer balloonists saw from their baskets changed the way we think about the world. In the race to be the first across the Channel, the age old rivalry between Britain and France was renewed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008j43n

The world service is already directly government funded, the foreign office pays for it.

there's not such thing as impartial, but the bbc does it better than any commercial outlet anywhere.

srsly disagree with this, unless the some say x, some say y 'evenhandedness' of news coverage is enough

there were studies suggesting the bbc news provided less space to stories sceptical of uk/usua claims during the last gulf war than any other news provider

insofar as bbc news is critical of govt it's in hyperbolically personalised attacks againt a howard or campbell (the visibly defective pol/civ servant) who corrupts the essentially benign nature of govt

most of britain's institutions have their faults or are based on the conservative principle -- from jury trials to parliament itself. what would prompt such a drastic measure? most people basically like the bbc.

maybe it ought to be observed that arguments in favour of the bbc are usually based on this sort of consensuality than clear logic

there's nothing else that even attempts to be newsnight or the today programme.

there is probably only room for one today programme, just as there is probably room for only one guardian

someone ought to be able to sell a near likeness of it esp given the high listening figures and upscale demographic

but how close would the likeness be? not very, i would bet. especially after a few years. it would start being 7-9, then 7:30-9, then hosted by chris moyles, who'd need a job anyway.

and eventually it would get so meretricious and right wing rod liddle would have to edit it

there were studies suggesting the bbc news provided less space to stories sceptical of uk/usua claims during the last gulf war than any other news provider

and yet it was the bbc that created the biggest storm by reporting david kelly etc.

maybe it ought to be observed that arguments in favour of the bbc are usually based on this sort of consensuality than clear logic

― nakhchivan, Friday, February 26, 2010 3:32 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

when did "clear logic" get made king? there are all sorts of good things that wouldn't pass the test. "clear logic" headbangers are a menace (via edmund burke).

i don't think the bbc is at all perfect, but don't understand the desire to destroy it

"clear logic" headbangers are a menace

hmmn i'd have had you down as one of those!

fwiw i wouldn't get rid of it but someone dig up beria cuz bbc3 needs purging

After a minute I took it off, saying: "Right, I imagine it carries on like that, but if you want to hear the rest of it tune in to Terry Wogan. I work for you lot, not U2's record company, and I'm sure that Bono would fully support me in my stance against external oppression … these are the Futureheads."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/26/bbc-6-music-licence-payers

"an affront to the memory of John Peel"

Oh fuck off.

“6 Music keeps the spirit of broadcasters like John Peel alive and for new artists to lose this station would be a great shame” David Bowie.

God bless him.

killing phil jupitus would be a blap in the face of bbc6 listeners

He's leaving anyway, isn't he?

"With the advent of new technology I could eventually choose anything from two weeks of stored music when I started taking my PowerBook in to work."

so was he playing low bitrate mp3s from his laptop on the show? i've been wondering how they do at radio now wrt not actually needing to use CDs at all anymore.

Radio sound quality is so poor I'd imagine it doesn't make much difference.

"an affront to the memory of John Peel"

Oh fuck off.

― Matt DC, Friday, 26 February 2010 17:04 (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

OTM.

This is the problem with 6 Music as I see it- it's kind of like Peel without any of the happy hardcore, reggae, electronica, grindcore, The Fall, and all the other interesting stuff he used to play. In other words, Steve Lamacq's Doc Marten stamping on a human face, forever.

Which is probably still better than any other radio station (not that that's saying much)

You've never actually listened to 6Music, have you? xp

ha, he left 3 years ago... (xp yes, but not for ages, see above)

To be honest, he was all fine up until he said "Longpigs", after that it went damn off.

xp I have actually, and the above applies to the daytime shows IMO. I think the late night and weekend shows are good, though.

And FWIW I do think it's bad the BBC is going to do away with it.

i guess a £6m budget for fewer than 700k listeners doesn't compare well with radio 2's £50m bringing in over 10m cloth-eared toerags, but hey this is the bbc....

it wasn't a lifeline but as has been said earlier 6music is the easiest station to have on and not want to kill somebody. i oscillate between 6 and radio 3 for that reason.

6Music may not be a 24hr John Peel shrine, but The Fall, electronica and reggae have all been heard on daytime shows. I'm just saying the idea that 6Music is just wall-to-wall landfill indie is false.

If you're going purely by listening figures then surely 1Xtra should be done away with too?

6Music - 695k
1Xtra - 531k
Radio 7 - 931k (!!!)
Asian Network - 360k

Or keep them all and dump BBC3.

surely 1Xtra should be done away with too?

thats_racist

xxp Fair enough, but I didn't claim it was, and I'm probably being over-critical of one of the few music stations I actually listen to. I will be sorry to see it go, I just feel it always played it a bit too safe. And that's not to mention the employing-George-Lamb incident.

Yeah, I don't know why BBC's 3 and 4 can't be merged (ie put Being Human on BBC4 and scrap 3, essentially)

I don't think I've ever seen anyone defend BBC3 yet those radio stations have its diehard fans. Also those stations cover music commercial radio wont touch. So it makes no sense to dump them. It's not like commercial radio will suddenly open 3 national stations covering that stuff.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7041712.ece

....
"Proposals seen by The Times look like a welcome recognition that the empire has gone too far, and should focus back on quality programming. But they actually constitute an evasive and artful strategy designed to keep the next government from intervening, while in reality changing very little... If the BBC were serious about reform it would consider selling Radio 1 and getting out of the pop music business, which is hardly ill served by others. It would give up BBC Three, which has no rationale at all. It would get tough on executive pay, and admit that it cannot continue to be regulated by a trust that is also its cheerleader."
...

Music website Popjustice says the BBC is "turning its back on pop music":

"6Music is one of the few spots on the 'radio dial' to guarantee an idiot-free listen - it's also very much in tune with the musical tastes of some prolific tweeters, the majority of music journalists and other influential early-to-mid-to-late-30s media tastemakey people. So you'll be hearing a lot of people being upset that their favourite radio station might be taken off air but there'll probably be slightly less fuss about, for example, BBC Asian Network, which is arguably a better use of the licence fee but is looking at a fate similar to 6 Music's."

It would give up BBC Three, which has no rationale at all.

um waht

From the comments on the times article

John Whitney wrote:
The BBC is quintessentially British? You are joking, aren't you?

The BBC - like its paymaster NuLabour - hates all things British. It has spent the last 40 years to my knowledge tearing down every single bastion of Britishness that we all used to hold dear - namely the traditions and history of this once-great country.

The BBC is about as anti-British as it gets. It is juisty the broadcasting wing of the Left.

Scrap the license fee and make the BBC pay its own way in the world. Then we need to set up a centre-right broadcasting entity to counterbalance the unremitting left-wing bias of the remaining media.

um waht

"Several things have happened since I spoke out. I had no strong views on 6 Music on Friday, I now know it is brilliant with a passionate and articulate fan base – I am now an avid listener to 6 Music. I suspect that 6 Music has doubled its audience. I strongly suspect 6 Music will be saved."

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/6/17/1245197463754/Ed-Vaizey-shadow-minister-001.jpg
^^^^wanker

did he also listen to the asian network?

The "we want to cut things until we have personal experience of them and then we realise they are valued things we promise to preserve" thing is the worst aspect of the nu-Tories. See also Cameron and the NHS. It just makes them look clueless.

I am now an avid listener to 6 Music. I suspect that 6 Music has doubled its audience.

zing?

Closure confirmed by Mark Thompson. 6 Music is currently playing Monkey Gone To Heaven. Can't tell if this is a coincidence or not.

Also 'Lets Face The Music And Dance' just before it.

this is pretty fucked imho

Seriously. Don't they...listen?

Don't think it's "confirmed" at all tbh.

The strategy review has now been submitted to the BBC Trust and a wider consultation period will take place.

concerned parties currently being reccommended to email tr✧✧✧.enquir✧✧✧@b✧✧.c✧.u✧

hahaha o ilx i love you

trust.
enquiries
@
bbc.
co.
uk

i haven't listened to bbc radio 6. (or heard jedward.) im sure i could turn this refusenik attitude into a g2 coolumn. this week: in my day we used "kindle" to start fires.

Yeah they've fleshed out the story a bit now. It was only a paragraph when I first posted.

Oh, "consultation period". That probably means they're fucked.

I can't think of any clearer reason why Radio 6 needs to die than the approval of "Crazy" Ed Vaizey.

Mark Thompson really needs to increase his shaving budget.

Mark Thompson can afford to pay a stylist to tweeze out his stubble one hair at a time - he's on 800k a year (twice Greg Dyke's salary).

If we look to who listens to 6Music (students and ABC1s up to age 50) this is not a demographic the BBC can afford to piss off. That, and it supports the British music industry, which is jobs for thousands of people (many of whom take non-traditional, non-professional routes to success) who pay higher taxes than they might if there were not networks where their music can be showcased.

Matt, in this instance 'consultation' has the standard local authority meaning of 'this decision is done and dusted, whinge away for show, suckers', yes?

Or alternatively "dudes, start intensively applying for jobs now".

livebloggin':

lauren laverne, who i once saw play in a band, emphasised "*proposed* cuts" and is encouraging people to write in, what with it being a consultation.

get on with it and play some music, lauren!

could this be the first new song i hear this year...?

please don't be the foals

phew, it's a beloved song from 1990

Partners In Kryme, Turtle Power

i mean "beloved" by people with no taste, sadly

and then they played some whiney shit by the foals

kind of remembering why i stopped listening to indie now

that said, they did just play some sly and robbie

Yeah I just cranked up Boops, always a bonus TBH.

last time i had a job they played r4 all day, and this is better than 'you and yours' (and basically any r4 afternoon show) fwiw

Even though my shoulder-chip is set to sympathy for the downtrodden and the ripped-off, Y&Y makes me want to stab my eyes out - especially when there are CALLERS.

http://www.last.fm/user/bbc6music/charts?rangetype=overall&subtype=artists

Won't close until the end of 2011 at the earliest according to the Beeb.

hahahahahahaha until now i had not clocked exactly what 6music played - i thought it was meant to be "weird", leftfield shit???

somehow the Mayans knew xp

also the popjustice handwringing over what this will mean for shitty pop is hilarious

shame. i like 6 music. no other radio station would play geto boys in the morning!

that george lamb was totally overrated though.

Geto Boys too geto for 1xtra

how does 1xtra manage to stay away from the chop? apart from being shit and mainstream and bland of course.

hahahahahahaha until now i had not clocked exactly what 6music played - i thought it was meant to be "weird", leftfield shit???

Not really but Last Fm top artist stats always make things look less varied and interesting than they actually are - the 1Xtra Last FM page barely contains any artists who wouldn't make daytime Radio 1, surprising and welcome Donae'o anomaly notwithstanding.

Do 1Xtra play much stuff older than 4 years ago? Interesting that this was deemed a requirement for 6 but perhaps not necessary for 1X

lol i turned it back on and they're playing 'new rose'. this is kind exactly what i thought it'd be like.

mark thompson does come off as a plank, in interviews. over-promoted? just seems second-rate.

Last Fm top artist stats always make things look less varied and interesting than they actually are

the stats don't interpret themselves. i've had friends appear on r6, but a lot of it is just reinforcing a lot of shit done elsewhere (&that sucks)

So maybe the shit's done elsewhere but I pay good money not to have to sit through incessant stupid adverts on those stations, or to hear music I like mixed with Ke$ha or something.

idk, a lot of this "they do it elsewhere" charge brought against the bbc is kind of like "yeah, but less well." i could probably have expressed that better.

this is all canary-in-a-mineshaft stuff. a lot of us are being uh collectively punished maaan for the nefarious ways of the evil bankers and politicians in this so-called society. we must cut everything back to strengthen the pound so that the rich can stay that way. fuck you, rich people! you probably aren't even happy, because money doesn't make you happy, right? ha ha ha, of course it does, you bastards.

that's fine I don't disagree that you like it. popularity doesn't translate straight into cultural value. lots of shit is/wld be better done by the bbc than elsewhere, that's not reason enough imo

xp, obv

1x does play older stuff on the ronnie herrel show on sundays i think and occasionally like when they have bob marley day or whatever but mostly its from the 90s and not too much from there either. nothing much older than that. 'back in the day' is usually most likely to mean 1999 or thereabouts. but its meant to be for teens so they try and keep it mostly all modern.

id like 1x more if the tone of most of the presenters wasnt so asinine. westwood is the best presenter/character on there.

Lauren Laverne sounded resigned, and Mark Riley played "Wolf Kidult Man" by the Fall.

BBC Trust open to 6 Music 'rethink'

Would not be in the least bit surprised if the facebook campaign manages to pull off a reprieve.

Anyone see Newsnight yesterday? Apparently Paxman did the full attack dog routine on his own Director General.

Here you go:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8546940.stm

Yeah, I was "um, isn't this yr boss, or do you not actually have any other interviewing technique?"

It was a thing of beauty; if you're the boss of Jeremy Paxman, you know what you're letting yourself in for if you arrive unprepared and frankly, banjaxed. Lead-in report with loads of bad Bowie puns (due to David Bowie's calling for 6M to be saved) also A++

I won't be surprised if the campaign saves the station; this is exactly like those R4 backlashes that happen from time to time with people our parents' ages, spearheaded by gatekeepers/tastemakers. Stevem's point that the BBC is biting the hands of hundreds of thousands of bedrock BBC advocates of the future also worth noting.

mark thompson comes off as a real choad

he was on c4 news and adam buxton or the other one + this guy from the asian network were pretty forthright

Oh! I Always Get Those Two Mixed Up!

Even if Mark Thompson comes across as an idiot why can't some of the BBC6 programming be swithced onto Radio 1/Radio 2? A lot of it is just post-punk shit for students, right? And they can always stream at any time (I mean I've only heard 'The Freak zone' a couple of times, one of which was the guy from Sparks saying he didn't like pop music much) I don't really get the point of 6music, unlike Asian network, who no one cares about because its ratings are so low (when the BBC aren't meant to strictly focus on ratings?)

Radio 4 is unique, you can't compare it to BBC6.

I care about the Asian Network and was delighted to see Bobby Friction pwning Thompson with proper substantive points eg. this is a SECULAR NATIONWIDE station by and for British Asians (when most of the Asian faces on mainstream BBC are from as much of an elite as their white counterparts). If this fucker's so easy to pwn on TV, why is he in charge of it?

By that reckoning, Paxman should be in charge!

Not really. Dude should be able to stonewall and smile while doing it. Suggests a profound lack of interaction and a dislike of surprises.

there's a degree of self-loathing (or near as damn) in people saying "what's the point of it?" its listeners are all "people like us", so we give them a hard time. whereas none of us watch "the one show" -- or even (i suspect) very much of bbc1 at all, so don't question it.

i don't think ilx was that bothered by jonathan ross's salary, but that was really egregious and hard to justify. it sounds cornball, but when i heard him say, pretty much verbatim, "i would fuck you", to gwyneth paltrow, i thought that was pretty fucked up, that we were all paying this prick.

radio 6 seems to please a lot of people -- some of whom may be students, heaven forbid -- for a pretty low budget. the cuts are all part of an evil tory agenda.

Seem like Mark Thompson could do with a bit of media training. Given that Paxman's seen four DGs come and go since he started Newsnight (not actually as many as I'd expected) and how loyal he is to the principles behind the institution I'm not surprised he was willing to wail on his boss like that. Still, I enjoyed how easy he made it look.

ross was an unfunny, indefensible crepe (see also moyles) and it was a shame that controversy was willed into being by the mail and its agenda, which seemed to make a lot of people take up a kneejerk pro-bbc stance

im glad ross is going. he was mostly unfunny, try-hard, prone to pathetic in joking with his celeb buddies, and more interested in himself than any of the guests. though he seemed to get a bit better at feigning interest in other people besides himself over the last year or so.

asian network is flawed but isnt bad at all.

ive a feeling 6music will end up being saved at this rate though, as its got so many defenders. thompson seems to have no clue what to do at this point, but the idea of 6 music going and the best parts of it going into radio 2 to make r2 better seems like a good idea. partic as r2 could do with a shakeup and a greater diversity of output. though that in this case, will prob just mean more docus on dylan albums (not that i necessarily mind that).

ive a feeling 6music will end up being saved at this rate though, as its got so many defenders.

there was an interesting moment in mark thompson's interview with martha kearney when she got the impression that thommo was doing this as a ginger exercise, in order to get them to rally to the beeb's defence.

Yeah like I said upthread there's been so much anti-BBC sentiment from the media that it's good to see a sustained public campaign in its favour, even if this is a relatively small part we're talking about.

Even though nobody in their right mind thinks the Beeb is perfect it's a central part of our cultural heritage now and I don't think many people want to see it go, even in some kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' way.

beeb needs to stop bowing down to its detractors.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-%26-entertainment/bbc-angers-fans-of-the-idea-of-6-music-201003032520/

Daily Mash otm, the elephant in the studio here is the parlous state of digital radio at the moment. DAB has never taken off the way its boosters hoped it would. I don't say that gloatingly - I'm a fan, use my radio for hours most days - but for a few reasons the system doesn't seem to be doing much that you couldn't do via the Interwebs.

Even tho these closures are couched in the language of cuts, I don't see why the BBC has to persevere with every service it tries out. Sometimes things that aren't working as planned need to be dropped or shaken up? I don't really see what the point of a 6 Music is. They should make its purpose stronger, and clearer, or they should cover whatever they're covering on there via Radios 1, 2 and 3. There is a difference between this and Radio 4, the latter does something unique and specific. God knows I don't like 95 percent of Radio 4, but it has one of those raisin debtor things that 6 has never really had imo

bbc1 - many people here wouldn't watch but you can see its point and how distinct it is from BBC2.

Its hard to argue for any cuts because of the agenda behind it, but we should still question why BBC3 and even BBC4 exists. With the latter most of its docs are weak, in both subjects (er lots about old telly) and execution (few talking with fewer ideas). It looks like the cash is spread around with no focus whatsoever. Isn't it better to take the best ideas, give it a budget and put it on prime time BBC2 instead?

BBC's digital role needs a hard look. The space shouldn't be filled because its there!

How much does BBC4 cost, if it was purely about re-running old documentaries and/or previewing new docs for the main channel?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2010/3/1/1267465128053/2-Information-is-Beautifu-001.jpg

£120m is a lot for licence fee collection. council tax collection is about twice as efficient afaict. i guess those magic detector vans cost a packet, eh?

Capita do the license fee stuff rite

That graphic above is misleading: it conflates income and outgoings in the same diagram.

Also, I'm not sure that it isn't double counting some things. Asian Network sits outside radio and the national networks don't make up the full radio spend, OK so Nations and regions should be in there as well but still. Also Senior Management, double counted or not?

£9 for 6music! here's a tenner. keep the change.

more seriously Ross + Clarkson + Norton + Robinson > 6Music

you mean "cost more" im guessing

damn nick robinson be paid huh

anne robinson, i took that to be. and yes, cost more.

£357m sports and music, £91m sports? Where's this £266m of music programming? Is it including radio?

using the listening figures released the other day, the rough cost per listener for each station
(note : just a bit of fun, not claiming these figures are definitive, etc etc)

R1 £3.99
R2 £3.86
R3 £27.21
R4 £11.08
R5 £11.64
R6 £12.95
R7 £7.41
1Xtra £18.08
Asian £33.33

they should just get rid of all the DAB stations.
no one cares about DAB.

or switch them to MW (is that cheaper on some level?) like thompson was talking about.

i listen to radio on a tv... is that DAB? (or a clever tribute act name?)

Yes, it is a digital signal!

no, i think DAB = digital signal received by radios only. you're listening to mostly the same channels in freeview but from a different signal.

my mum has a dab radio, but only listens to radio2 which if fm-able anyway.

I mostly listen to Radios 3 and 5 on mine, but it's nice, convenient, decent sound quality, and I have the choice of listening to digital only channels if I wanna. The main DAB channel I listen to is http://www.thearrow.co.uk/ which is a lot of fun and dispenses with the boring gits talking shite inbetween records that lesser stations like 6 Music cling to.

i duno why lauren laverne was looking so sad on that newsnight clip - shell be doing something else for the bbc in no time. bbc presenters rarely seem to fade away. theyre just there. forever. and ever.

as an aside, those wind-up radios that you can get state

http://www.gadgetsquick.co.uk/freeplay-devo-wind-up-dab-radio-p-366.html

Continuous Playtime:
- Fully Charged Battery - 6 hours (DAB normal volume)
- Fully Charged Battery - 36 hours (FM normal volume)
- 60 Second Wind - 3-5 minutes (DAB normal volume)
- 60 second wind - 1 hour (FM normal volume)

which would suggest they use 6 to 20 times as much electricity as the fm equivalent. which is pretty bad in this day and age.

Paxman reading the night's schedule for BBC3 is gold, was there much of the interview beyond those 3mins?

i duno why lauren laverne was looking so sad on that newsnight clip - shell be doing something else for the bbc in no time.

Well she has also recently lost the Culture Show gig, and now this, so... But yeah she'll probably be shunted to Radio2. Along with Adam and Joe, Lammo... ? But will anyone think about poor Mark Riley?

I'm not sure she's lost Culture Show tbh.

im not sure she has either.

theyll prob start some whole new vehicle for her.

There was some stupid rumour going around about the cost of her make-up artist creating resentment but it doesn't tally. At all.

lol what?

she didnt seem to be wearing makeup on that newsnight clip. maybe they left already to find a new job.

When she's presenting telly she needs serious cosmetics because otherwise she's nearly the palest non-albino person in Britain. But she is also very safe because ISTR she came out well in that 'telly presenters we like' internal study the BBC did. CS people like working with her too.

I know you all like her, for some reason or other, but she was terrible on The Culture Show

I thought she got bumped off the Culture Show when they opted to take it a bit more highbrow?

Put 'highbrow' in inverted commas there.

Yeh, highbrow culture, whatever next

i think shes really likeable, but doesnt really have much to say. but obv id take her over pretty much every radio 1 presenter.

ive not watched the CS for ages though. seems to not know what the point of it is anymore.

I think the point is to prove the BBC Board of Governors that the BBC is still commissioning programmes on art and culture, but without overdoing the art and culture bit, because people don't like that shit, innit?

i don't like any bbc tv culture shows. some radio things are ok. i don't think laverne was that comfortable/confident in her role there. not a diss because the tv format tends towards superficiality, but the culture show *really* tended towards superficiality. i get that things have to be entry-level, to a degree, but...

i mean, they must be a nightmare to produce, but a real "magazine format" show wouldn't rely on two non-expert presenters to talk on stuff they don't know much about. but those shows always strike me as smarmy anyway so im not the person to ask. it's not as bad as kirsty wark doing newsnight review, but then, neither was the burma railway.

it's not as bad as kirsty wark doing newsnight review

Or doing Newsnight!

she is terrible, and compounds it by having the worst guests of all time:

Tonight!

11.00pm Newsnight Review

Kirsty Wark hosts a special extended programme looking back at the cultural highlights of 2008, with guests Michael Gove, Paul Morley, Julie Myerson and Ekow Eshun.

just argh. you might, might, might get something amusing from morley there, but otherwise.

HM, I would like to know if you think there are any good Late Review presenters.

Has Tom Sutcliffe done it before? And that Channel 4/ Channel 5 arts guy is bearable.

Kirsty presenting Newsnight Review has all come across as sheer megalomania to me

none that i've seen, or that i can remember, and i haven't seen it since idk when. totally admit i'm *liable* not to like any of them, being a grouchy so-and-so.

i used to like morley more than i do now. will self is bound to have been on it, and i like him. iirc hari kunzru is p dece on these things.

xpost

as for presenters -- well, no-one is as bad as KW. other than mark lawson i can't think of any other presenters.

Kirsty presenting Newsnight Review has all come across as sheer megalomania to me

the bbc execs hear the word culture and reach for their devolver

oh snap

other than mark lawson i can't think of any other presenters.

Martha Kearney. I like Martha.

They move the show to Glasgow (*cringe*) and, next thing you know, up pops Pat Kane

martha kearney must have been presenting it since i stopped watching. yeah, she's fine, on the radio so i guess is probably ok?

which would suggest they use 6 to 20 times as much electricity as the fm equivalent. which is pretty bad in this day and age.

― koogs, Wednesday, March 3, 2010 9:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fm has an advantage over all other bands (dab, SW, MW, etc.) because there is useful energy in fm radio waves. you can actually make an fm radio without _any_ power source. the only reason wind up battery/wind-up powered fm radios exist at all is because ones without power are a bit too quiet.

p.s. 6music sucks.

on the radiator with a stupid ear piece iirc

Is Paulin on Newsnight Review still ever? He had a sense of panto that made it bearable - sighs, eye-rolling, silly pauses. Comedy intellectual on TV arts prog his true metier.

Turned into a self parody. But, yes, great in his prime. Germaine's always good for a laugh.

I like when Hari Kunzru is on much more than I like Johann Hari, but apart from Sarah Churchwell most of the women are a bit stilted.

id like newsnight review more if they had something covering the arts that was less pompous/middle class/for guardian readers. something like def II again would be nice. something for people that dont want to see fucking mark lawson or KW or ekow eshun or kwame or fucking morley AGAIN AND AGAIN.

something like def II again would be nice

i can only dimly remember this but have to applaud the sentiment

my tastes arent high brow enough

ok i just signed this -
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/invite/BBCcuts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/mar/04/bbc-tim-davie-6-music

BBC director of music and audio parrots Mark Thompson's line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0zNDhhPkSk&feature=player_embedded

i know this is a thread about 6 music and no one on here prob has ever listened to asian network but god, this piece is stupid -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/07/asian-network-6-music-closure?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

wheres the fucking CIF piece about how its a good thing 6 music is going?

Bloody hell

^^^ Solid argument for closure right there

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8580343.stm

The BBC says it plans to make "fewer things better" .....

.. please yerselves..

Ugh

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/3/29/1269859328539/Fans-of-Father-Ted-protes-007.jpg

they appear to be tittering. which is appropriate.

I like THIS Guy's extra peace arm.

indie kuato

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8699519.stm

George Lamb quits.

...

Well, I did not know he was Larry Lamb's son. So that's something.

RIP Big Man. Heaven needed a twat.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/05/bbc-6-music-saved

BOOOOOOOOOOO

congrats to white people everywhere

shut up

Jesus I thought we were in the austerity years

They should look at merging the Asian programming. Just for fun, like.

FFS, HM, many people who bothered to complete a consultation response were in favour of keeping both stations, and said so. Hands up if you could be arsed to fill one of them out; if not please quit grandstanding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21294894

Male artists dominate a listeners' poll to find BBC Radio 6 Music's top 100 tracks of the past 10 years.

Coldplay top the list with their 2003 track Clocks, ahead of Arctic Monkeys' I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor and Elbow's One Day Like This.

More than 100,000 votes were cast in the poll which looks back over the 10 years since the station began in 2002.

"It's a good result for Coldplay, who were clearly one of the biggest bands of the decade," said DJ Steve Lamacq.

"But you can see the breadth of 6 Music's tastes in the rest of the top 10, including some bands who we've championed and who've broken through commercially like Elbow, and some brilliant groups who remain out there on the margins of pop like British Sea Power and The National."

Speaking on 6 Music, Coldplay's Will Champion said he was "totally blown away" by topping the poll.

"This is extraordinary. We've been listening to 6 Music since it started and I feel like our band's career and this station have grown up in parallel. This top 10 is amazing - what an amazing 10 years of music," he said.

Champion said that topping the chart was all the more surprising as "we all said not bad for a song that hasn't got a chorus".

"When I first heard it, Chris played the riff and I said 'that's a good intro what about the rest of the song?'

"I was scratching my head trying to find something that would fill a little gap in the record."

He added: "This was a first successful attempt at writing a song where the melodic hook was the key to a song rather than a big chorus. Our manager said it would never be a hit and here we are."

More than one million tracks have been played across the network since the station began in March 2002.

6 Music's presenters, producers and staff compiled the list of 100 tracks from the past decade taken from the station's playlist, then asked listeners to vote for them in order of preference.

Voting took place from 7 - 25 January on the station's website. Listeners were limited to one vote each.

Bloodbuzz Ohio by The National and The Killers' Mr Brightside complete the top five polling at four and five respectively.

Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six, followed by The Flaming Lips' Do You Realize?? and Hurt by Johnny Cash.

Rounding out the top 10 are British Sea Power's Remember Me and Radiohead's There There.

The late Amy Winehouse appears at number 25 with Rehab, behind Lana Del Rey's Video Games at 24, but ahead of Adele's Hometown Glory at 28.

Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six Seven National Army from The White Stripes - the only band in the top 10 to feature a female - was voted in at number six

you can see the breadth of 6 Music's tastes in the rest of the top 10, including some bands who we've championed and who've broken through commercially like Elbow, and some brilliant groups who remain out there on the margins of pop like British Sea Power and The National

http://thecollegestartup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/istockphoto_8312638-from-point-a-to-b-PAID-FOR.jpg

http://digitaljournal.com/img/2/5/7/7/3/3/i/4/8/2/o/GiantTurdSculptureKeukenhofWillemTScheepers.jpg

don't bother fronting, Coldplay is the best thing on that list

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/oct/14/bbc-6-music-radio-3-fm

^^^ This is why corny indie fuxx should never be allowed near positions of actual power.

tom watson makes me long for all politicians to be soulless bots who don't give a shit about music

as for 6music it really is just a retirement home for people who were in terrible 90s bands/vehicle for them to become insufferable national treasures

someone rescue mary anne hobbs

When the Guardian last week proclaimed that garageland blues-rock group Drenge could be future Glastonbury headliners, we didn't quite predict this. Their performance at the Worthy Farm festival appears to have been so epiphanic that it has led to the resignation of former Labour MP Tom Watson.

Posting an open letter to Ed Miliband on his blog today, Watson explained that the continuing rows over the party's Falkirk selection process was a deciding factor for him stepping down as Labour's general election co-ordinator, before signing off the blog describing a pivotal moment he had during an interview with John Humphrys:

"John Humphrys asked me why you were not at Glastonbury this weekend. I said Labour leaders can't be seen standing in muddy fields listening to bands. And then I thought how terribly sad that this is true. So: be that great Labour leader that you can be, but try to have a real life too. And if you want to see an awesome band, I recommend Drenge."

lock thread.

oh i forgot, chuka umunna, we actually have an mp with decent music taste and he's a soulless corporate bot anyway

Bet anything Miliband googled them. xp

I hadn't heard about Chuka Umunna's taste in music before!
I like this Daily Mail hatchet job where some buffoon of a tory mp takes him to task for being rude about London's club scene in a 7 year old message board post:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304227/Internet-secrets-jetrosexual-Chuka-Umunna-party-loving-MP-hailed-Labours-Obama.html

it's hardly a surprise that an MP has really weak taste in music. and enjoys trolling.

But you can see the breadth of 6 Music's tastes in the rest of the top 10, including some bands who we've championed and who've broken through commercially like Elbow, and some brilliant groups who remain out there on the margins of pop like British Sea Power and The National.

this sentence still amazing