Chariots Of Fire

(Blame the snow. Hell frozen over this weekend - I'm starting a thread about 1) a film and 2) SPORT!!!! who knew?)

Eric Liddell shurely?

Well, vote, then!

But good lord, *worst* fake Scottish accent in a film ever, for a start, and my god, all that dreary old tyme religion. Plus, he ran like a gurl, arms a-flapping.

I can't believe that this was my favourite movie when I was 11. I think it was just the bridge between being obsessed with horses to being obsessed with boys. Film posh totty running about on a beach in white pyjamas like the ponies of Camargue and even the most pony-mad of girls will notice.

And I don't know whether I'm relieved or disturbed that I still fancy the same one as I did when I was 11.

I can't remember his Scottish accent, but I thought Ian Charleson was Scottish?!?!?

From Edinburgh, but I think he's not from Irvine Welsh's Edinburgh if you know what I mean.

So he was! Blimey! OK, I stand corrected. But his accent was still questionable. Maybe it was toned down for English audiences.

What on earth was the subtext of that film anyway? I mean, on the face of it, it's a "plucky British beating the enemy" film.

But was it actually a success in Britain, or was it just made to be exported to Americans wanting to see pretty, twee, nostaligic Britainland?

Kate, see also the excision of the David Tennant burr for Dr. Who. Actors can do that.

Film successful everywhere as far as I remember.

Someone bought me the soundtrack on vinyl when I was about 11 for some strange reason (I was only vaguely aware of my Dad liking the film).

The record only had Chariots of Fire music on one side and the other side had the London Philharmonic doing other stuff (Theme from 2001, Venus, Waltz Of The Flowers, Theme from Elvira Madigan, 1812 Overture (Finale)) which was much better.

I hadn't really thought about any homoerotic subtext*. I must mention that to my somewhat old fashioned Dad :)

* from the guy who never thought of Top Gun as having any gay subtext until it was pointed out to me. I have the worst gaydar ever.

I had the soundtrack - it was one of the first albums I ever bought - if not the actual first (I don't count the Goodies album when I was 5). The theme music has become a cliche, but that doesn't diminish its power!

Lack of homoerotic subtext? Come on! There's a scene where Abrahams is getting a massage from his trainer while telling Aubrey "you are my perfect man!" (OK, not an exact quote, but close enough.)

I had forgotten all the Gilbert and Sullivan. I had forgotten that there was even a love interest at all. I had not forgotten the scene where Lord Lyndsay leaps over all those hurdles without spilling his champagne.

And it wasn't so much the exclusion of the burr that bothered me (I'm used to the Edinburgh accentlessness) as when he put it *on* - the scene up in "the highlands" - it just seemed embarrassing.

Next you can rent Oxford Blues and Prefontaine and make a night of it!

Sorry! I have only just noticed! ERIC Liddell. I am stupid. Can I get a mod to change that? Not the first time I'd have got an actor and his character conflated.

And no, no, if I were to make a night of it, I'd watch it with Brideshead Revisited. Actually, that's not a bad idea.

I can't remember who wins the race at the end of Brideshead Revisited.

It's part of the early 80s, 20s Oxbridge nostalgic, New Romantic preshadowing, semi-homoerotic, floppy haired scarf-wearing canon.

The races in Chariots of Fire are not there for any other reason than to show off the young men in various states of emotional and physical agony and ecstacy. Abraham's rivalry with Liddell is born of frustrated desire. Maybe. Or am I getting it mixed up with Brideshead again?

You're thinking of Cool Runnings.

No wonder Americans think we're all homos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUDBzVg_-u0

(I don't count the Goodies album when I was 5)

I do! I've been trying to hide it from the kids, as they'll be all "PUT IT ON!! NOW!!!" It's bad enough, when mum goes out Alice is all "Can we watch the goodies? One. Actually, Two!"

Oh, and yeah it was a big hit over here.

I've been very restrained. I've gone 22 posts without posting a picture!

Just the one, honestly. Watch that posh totty go!

http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/images/chariots-of-fire_420.jpg

Man in linen suit with the secksface!

I haven't seen a young man holding up his trousers with an old school tie since, well... OK, since the Connaught Square Squirrel Hunt to be precise, but still. It is a good look.

what is posh totty?

posh totty

Upper class hotties.

Hi Kate,

You don't understand the movie.

Yr frnd,
gbnb

That's not exactly helpful, is it? Different people may have many different interpretations of the same piece of art. Perhaps instead of condemning my view, you might share your own?

I seem to remember reading that Ian Charleston grew up near to where I live now - it's a mixture of 30s bungalows and council housing close to the beach.

My abiding memory of Chariots of Fire is spotting the 60s Brutalist architecture of the very scuzzy Dumbidykes housing estate in shot during the scene on the slopes of Arthur's Seat.

the movie is about a lot of things, but if it's about one thing, it's a reimagining of british values for a diversifying society that no longer rules everything - it shows how manners can divide and how they can unite, and it suggests a british form of adaptation to/competition in a world increasingly defined by a strange new beast, the (class-less) american. while not necessarily subtextual, there are meta associations with the national film industry.

sex is not completely irrelevant to the movie - Liddell is, simplistically, all about greatness through denial, while by far the least uptight character, Lindsay, obviously has the most fun, sacrificing achievement in the process - but I think you only find gay subtext if you went looking for it.

while I'm on the emotionally frozen chosen (kiu) team, obv, and am tempted to go for the Americans - Scholz has the best name in the film - Lindsay is totally the best major character.

the movie is about a lot of things, but if it's about one thing, it's a reimagining of british values for a diversifying society that no longer rules everything - it shows how manners can divide and how they can unite, and it suggests a british form of adaptation to/competition in a world increasingly defined by a strange new beast, the (class-less) american. while not necessarily subtextual, there are meta associations with the national film industry.

Can I go watch Local Hero now please?

I went to the pictures as a kid to see this film with my parents at the Hamilton Odeon. It was a double bill with Gregory's Girl.

it's about GOD & COUNTRY

ton of gays in cast (Charleson, Gielgud, Lindsay Anderson, Dennis Christopher)

Hard for me to hear that theme music now without thinking of Ween's "Japanese Cowboy"

lucky!

I've never seen this.

ton of gays in cast (Charleson, Gielgud, Lindsay Anderson, Dennis Christopher)

who wrote it?

That's actually a very interesting and thorough analysis of the film. Thanks for coming back and posting that. Gabbneb.

I found the scenes of the American team training frankly terrifying. The relentless machinelike nature of it, as opposed to the fun and slightly haphazard training methods of the Plucky Brits (playing cricket in the hotel ballroom!) - a common theme in WWII movies, only with the Germans in the mechanised role.

Scholz did turn out to be a decent fellow, after being held up as such a scary adversary. The note of encouragement to Liddell was a nice touch.

Lindsay, despite coming off like a foppish, floppy trustafarian, did actually turn out to be a very pivotal character - his sacrifice was to Liddell, recognising his greater potential (or perhaps, as in his speach to Chorus Girl, he recognises that these games *mean* something to the others, in a way they're just fun to him) rather than simply "for fun." (Though he's also the character that veers furthest from the historical truth, to the point where his name had to be changed from the actual lord who inspired him.) He was my favourite when I was 11, and he remains so now.

I still think that there is a massive homoerotic element to the film. Perhaps not overt (apart from that massage scene) but definitely in the woman-free cameraderie of all-male environments such as Cambridge. And also, simply in the sexualised imagery that the runners are portrayed. Perhaps that's inherent in idealising athletes - that it is inherently a kind of body worship. It's definitely objectification of the male body.

Colin Welland, innit?

(xpost writer)

Hard for me to hear that theme music now without thinking of Ween's "Japanese Cowboy" Daley Thompsons Decathlon On The Spectrum 128K

who wrote it?

Colin Welland wasn't it? That's the gruff hetero working class northener, Colin Welland... whatever happened to him anyway?

Weird how you can win an Oscar then pretty much disappear. He's only got 5 or so writing credits after CoF.

4, even.

# War of the Buttons (1994) (screenplay)
... aka Guerre des boutons, ça recommence, La (France)
# Bambino mio (1994) (TV) (writer)
... aka Mon enfant
# A Dry White Season (1989) (screenplay)
# Twice in a Lifetime (1985) (writer)

And Nigel Havers is doing pantomime now!

He's probably just retired now. Put the old feet up. Slippers, pipe, whippet etc (xp)

I find nothing from 1995 on, apart from some "after they were famous" reprise type TV shows.

xpost quite.

He was a good actor too (Colin I mean, not Nigel):

http://www.dissidenz.com/Images/Upload/Films/flFl_Illustration_1286.jpg

There was a time when I'd have put Nigel Havers next in line for a Die Hard Bad Guy role after Jeremy Irons got one.

Kes, best film on thread

(oh, except for Local Hero)

He's got an "Britishers" accent, he must be a bad guy!

For the longest time, I got confused and thought it was Jeremy Irons in Chariots of Fire. Hard to tell the leads apart, really.

(I don't really understand movies, actually.)

He's got an "Britishers" accent, he must be a bad guy!

I never got why they bothered hiring two Brits (Rickman and Irons) to play bad guys then made them have dodgy east European accents.

I can't remember who the bad guy was in Die Hard 2 as it was a pile of shit.

I never got why they bothered hiring two Brits (Rickman and Irons) to play bad guys then made them have dodgy east European accents.

Because if they fall out of their accents, they' still sound foreign to Americans.

Also Homos = Bad Guys

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_01/brideshead020607_468x431.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_04/chariotsfireDM2610_468x340.jpg

All that's different is the clothes! The cheekbones are the same. And, the, uh, general amount of activity. The classes and haircolours are right.

(It worries me that both google searches brought up results from the Daily Male.)

Oh, and BHR is in Oxford, and CoF in Cambridge. But they both have the broody dark haired middle class upstart and the effete, foppish and silly blond aristocrat. I can't tell them apart.

Now don't go bringing Rickman into this or I'm really going to get confused.

Ian Charleson was a respected stage actor in the London theater, with occasional dips into film and TV movies. He was playing Hamlet in London when he died in 1990 of AIDS.

He was 40 years old.

He was in "Jubilee"!

Playing Hamlet at age 40? really? Isn't that stretching it a bit? I mean, I know he was boyishly goodlooking and all, but really!

Sad, though. About the death part.

Olivier was also 40 in his film version, and I think there have been a number of famed older ones.

A Hamlet who is older than his stage/screen mother is just plain WRONG.

I mean, can you imagine a 40 year old Juliet?

The last thing I remember seeing Welland in was that BBC dramatisation of the Tony Kay affair (with Coogan as the tabloid hack who broke the story) - he played Everton manager Harry Catterick. No physical resemblance was attempted.

Charleson was also in Sebastiane.

The Tony Kay Affair? (xp)

Hugh Hudson's Tarzan movie is better than CoF.

Scholz did turn out to be a decent fellow, after being held up as such a scary adversary. The note of encouragement to Liddell was a nice touch.

the merkins, some of them at least, like the Scots/Irish better?

Lindsay, despite coming off like a foppish, floppy trustafarian, did actually turn out to be a very pivotal character - his sacrifice was to Liddell, recognising his greater potential (or perhaps, as in his speach to Chorus Girl, he recognises that these games *mean* something to the others

he's the guy that knows how to speak the language of the old world to provide entree for the new

What on earth do you have against CoF? x-post

staid, safe, rode wave of Reaganism to defeat Reds for Best Picture

Does beating a superior film (in yr opinion) make a film in itself bad?

Also, interesting that IRL it was the Lindsay character who won the Trinity Great Court Run, not Abrahams at all!

Dave Kehr never got over gym class

I haven't seen it recently enough to call it "bad," M.Boom, but I don't recall it being remotely adventurous, which Reds and Prince of the City were that year. At least it's better than On Golden Pond.

Also, interesting that IRL it was the Lindsay character who won the Trinity Great Court Run, not Abrahams at all!

-- Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:03 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Which makes it bad.

(I have no great opinion either way, tbh)

A conventional underdog tale (of two British runners in Olympic competition) is used as emotional cover for some fiercely reactionary sentiments, including nationalism, classism, xenophobia, and religious fundamentalism.

Yes, see this is the exact sort of thing I wanted to read about. I loved it because I loved it as a child (and it has hott boys running about in wet t-shirts) but wondered what kind of subtexts were going on, and why it made me uncomfortable.

I liked the aesthetics of the thing, but wondered about the Leni Riefenstahl stuff. (Then again, is it possible to make a film featuring the Olympics without referencing her?)

I don't know enough about film as a medium to read it in any way other than a heartwarming story with pretty boys. Which is why I asked the question in the first place.

I know this goes against the current zingy culture of ILX, but when I say "why is it bad?" I don't mean "you're wrong for disliking it" - I do actually want to know what about it you don't like.

Because it plays to a lot of cliches that I love, and I do have a Pavlovian response to those things. But on the whole, it leaves me with a strange feeling - that it's somehow transgressive to be well, enjoying of it.

Obviously, the fact that I find lots of it sexually alluring - well, transgressiveness is a part of the appeal. But the rest of it, I worry what I'm swallowing ideologically in the course of viewing things I find to be aesthetically or visually appealing.

it's really about the inherent supremacy of the Britons, no?

Even the Jewish and the Scottish ones?

Isn't that what every Olympics ever is about? The supremecy of whatever nation you happen to be a part of, as proved through sport?

i see, morbs, we were led by Reaganite nationalism to celebrate British supremacy

like the ehh-ok boring Rooskie epic had a chance in the first place other than inside hollywood pull

I'm really confused now.

(I also wonder if anyone except me has actually voted. Sigh.)

Reaganite/Thatcherite nationalism, you elitist dingaling

so you can be a nationalist for another country?

Stop this pointless bickering over ridiculousness and get back to explaining me the film!

::stamps feet::

or else I'll post about 40,000 more pictures of hott boys in wet shorts or tweed or whathaveyou!

I mean, can you imagine a 40 year old Juliet?

http://www.amrep.org/images/randj/174.jpg

Who is that?

A 42 year old Romeo and a 34 year old Juliet.

casting old is pretty common in that play, othwise you end up with Leo DiCaprio & Claire Danes

You know what this movie needs? A good wild jazz party scene. With flappers and jazz cigarettes.

The Tony Kay Affair?

Yes, you've probably looked this up by now but it was this. Jason Isaacs as Tony Kay, written/directed by Paul Greengrass. Kay was (more than) implicated in a match-rigging/betting-ring scandal in the early '60s and ultimately jailed (the crime was committed as a Sheff Wed player; he was the lynchpin of Everton's title-winning side by the time of the trial). Welland as Catterick was very WTF.

You know what this movie needs? A good wild jazz party scene. With flappers and jazz cigarettes.

did England ever have any of that? anyway, no jass please, we have W.S. Gilbert and Arthur Sullivan, thank you very much. you know, '80s music.

England certainly did according to Evelyn Waugh and Vile Bodies and all that.

Right, I'm going to add "Bright Young Things" to my 1920s movie binge. I enjoyed it, even if no one else did.

I enjoyed that too, was ridiculous.

this used to be my favorite movie when i was little! i can't remember anything about it except that the runners had to scoop out places for their feet to go with little trowels, instead of using starting blocks like we do now. i was always concerned that once they'd made a lap they would twist their ankle in the hole. which is presumably why the practice was dropped in the intervening years.

i learned how to play the vangelis theme song too, of course, probably driving my parents around the bend as i did so

Yeah, I think I saw it with you, in fact, IIRC!

I didn't understand the trowel thing. But why would they worry about twisting their ankles on little holes when they have the bloody French shoving them out of the way to twist their ankles over!

I never got around to playing the theme tune, though. :-(

Maybe I will learn in on THE BASS to wind up my new bandmates, ha ha!

no kate i haven't seen it since i was teensy (and a piano player)

i also remember taking exactly the wrong lesson away from that one race where the guy falls (or is pushed by the french?) but gets up and miraculously storms back to win the race: rather than think "hard work and determination can achieve wonders" i thought "i don't even have to keep pace, i can always just pull it out in the end" :-/

Sorry, that was to Suzy, with whom I believe I saw BYT.

And he didn't just fall, he was very definitely pushed by The French. Because they are Evil. Possibly even worse than The Americans in this film, who turn out to be quiet decent after all, even though machine-like and scary.

I don't know if this pic should go on this thread or the 'Cooler, but as the 1920s Wild Jazz Party was yesterday, perhaps it should just go here.

A Bright Young Thing:

http://www.portrait.gov.au/exhibit/cecil/_lib/img/large/exhib_8.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

"Plus, he ran like a gurl, arms a-flapping."

Massive x-post back to about three posts from the top, but that was the only objection Liddell's sister had to the way he was portrayed, according to an interview I read a while ago.

never seen this but "reds" isn't any good at all.

Liddell's sister was supposedly consulted in the making of the film! Or at least she was listed and thanked as having done so. Apparently Liddell was known for his unorthodox running style, but it was head back, mouth open, not arms flapping like a GURL.

But, oh well, he came off quite well compared to the supposed character assination that the basis for Lord Lindsay claimed.

Oh! I very nearly bought the added extended bonus edition with "making of" and "extended cricket scene" but figured it really wasn't worth an extra £10 just for a bit more fringe-flapping.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Hurrah! Champers all round!

::tosses straw hat in air::

THE WINNER!!!

http://thenigelhaversimperium.4ya.nl/homepage/show/708820.jpg

maybe I'll turn it up loud to counter my distance running neighbors' scary domestic disputes

"extended cricket scene"!!!

i think that was in that Roger Rabbit movie

never seen this but "reds" isn't any good at all.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

srch: SCTV version of CoF w/ Hall & Oates

The only time I saw this movie it was in Hebrew school something like 15 years ago. This movie sucks.

I was searching for a portrait of a lady on fire thread but one didn’t come up, my review of that movie is it has excellent eyebrows