thread for dom et al about the miss england finalist

That pic smells of shop. Her head is way too small for that body. No, really.

Dom is like ILX's own Perez Hilton, ain't he?

^ban

Levels of bulimia are actually falling. Instead our high streets are packed with young girls - just like Chloe - with "muffin tops" of fat spilling over their jeans.

Chloe claims she "crept up" to a size 16 after dieting to a size 12 on top and 14 on bottom. She's kidding herself.

Her weight didn't "creep on" magically - she ate too much food.

whoa this monica grenfell is a crazy

Of course she's crazy! She writes for the mail!

It would send an appalling - and very dangerous - message to other young women that it's OK to be fat.

lol this is what i always say--teenage girls are so off-puttingly in love with their bodies.

how can i get burt_stanton to post here

i think i went to high school with this chick

for real tho she is chubby but she is not like, rolly polly

So, basically, she thinks fat people are appalling? Or, maybe fat people would be ok, but only if we shun them. For their own good.

way to call a 17 year old girl fat + lazy in a headline, daily mail!

she wants fat people to starve themselves (or become bulimic?) so she doesn't have to look at them on the street!

i am shocked the daily mail would engage in this kind of behavior

yeah, she's totally mournful about rates of bulimia falling.

Uh, guys, she's saying this girl isn't a good role model.

There's a whole genre of middle-aged pinch-faced rail-thin chain-smoking hard-shopping Mail-reading self-hating Women-know-your-placing Tory scum ladies out there, y'know. Most of them in Cheshire, by the looks of it.

Oh sorry, she's a nutritionist:

http://www.monicagrenfell.co.uk/

i'm sure there are many lovely nutritionists/dieticians, but so many of them seem to be in the throes of 7 eating disorders at once.

I'm sure the author of Crash Diet and Revenge Diet has a totally healthy attitude to food.

lol revenge diet

i'm sure there are many lovely nutritionists/dieticians, but so many of them seem to be in the throes of 7 eating disorders at once.

-- horseshoe, Friday, April 11, 2008 6:17 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

otm. see also: vegans

the real secret of this book is getting to grips with the demons that have been holding you back and helping you deal with tricky situations such as:

* the mother who forces food on you
* the friends who try and sabotage your diets time and again
* the negative boyfriend / husband who undermines your confidence

Hmmm, what kind of organisations do we know about that try to separate people from their family and friends?

I kinda love the idea of beauty contests admitting an aesthetics of weight. Most people would probably agree that there's weight that looks nice and weight that doesn't. Her weight is, you know, nice-looking, and probably not much more indicative of poor health habits than than that of the competition's hungriest-looking competitor. That should probably count for something: great genes to gain weight with!

also for lunch i had a salad with 5 buffalo wings on top of it.

i just wanted to put that out there.

But a single buffalo can weight up to 2000 pounds!

judging from vegans i have known, i think it involves eating french fries mostly?

Her weight is, you know, nice-looking, and probably not much more indicative of poor health habits than than that of the competition's hungriest-looking competitor.

the idea that you can tell what people's health habits are by looking at them is nonsense, seductive though it is. i love how the caption to one of the photos in that article says "Chloe claims to exercise every day..." fatties be lyin'.

She has a BMI of 26, which is probably lower than, like, 90% of this board.

Oh yeah but so seriously the thing that's annoying is a lot of arguments where people seem to assume women with cameras on them as being models that others follow and become like, which is idiotic (e.g., the fashion industry's promotion of thinness has not exactly sparked a real-world trend) -- it's more the indirect course of messages about weight/looks causing people to become disordered about those things in ways that have nothing to do with successfully imitating anyone, which is the sense in which having this woman in a pageant could well make more girls take up healthy, non-disordered, successful approaches to managing their weight well

(I have just typed a bunch of shit you all already know, I get that)

ilx is 90% fattey?

Don't be afraid to have weird combinations of food. My mother once gave us hard-boiled eggs and peas because that was all there was. Now I think it's a great meal. If you keep feeding your children 'tasty' or sweet food, they'll get addicted. Cultivate a plain palate and you'll cultivate a slim body.

duh everyone on the internet is fat

Sandwiches also freeze brilliantly. I made my son's entire Christening tea a month in advance, years ago. Cheese tuna and other fish work best, but chicken and beef are also good. Add salad and mayo later. You can freeze an entire month's worth of packed lunches too.

sweet ('tasty') vs plain dichotomy = lol britishes

Dude, that harridan does not speak for us.

duh everyone on the internet is fat

And we're all great role models!

Someone should ask "Doctor" Gillian McKeith what she thinks

i am picturing this kid showing up to school with a packed brown baggy of frozen peas for lunch ;_;

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PVBJE8QGL._SS500_.jpg

Someone should ask "Doctor" Gillian McKeith what she thinks

Yeah, there's somebody who looks awesome on their healthy diet.

i know, her poor kids.

xpost okay, her face would really benefit if she gained, like, 15 pounds./bitch

That "revenge diet" seems to happen just naturally, much of the time; clever of her to brand it.

It's possibly also one of those great "revenge" things where you feel a sense of vengeance relating to a person who does not care and is not hurt at all (so everyone wins)

my revenge diet involves eating an entire bag of pepperidge farm cookies

http://m.assetbar.com/uua65Tz4F.gif

Whatever happened to good old-fashioned lying your ass off about how awesome your life has been lately?

Not full of shit after all

wait a minute in the article she says

"as a dietician I am so worried about the damage her well-oiled publicity machine is doing that I think it's vital to speak out."

but dieticians are registered, specifically educated people, its not just a title you can self-apply if you wrote a diet book

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietitian#Professional_associations

on monica grenfells website she calls herself a nutritionist and never once mentions any education that would lead to her actually being a dietician

http://www.monicagrenfell.co.uk/index.html

after all that bullshit about how this cuet girl should be hanging her head in shame for having a belly where does lying about being a doctor rank on that scale

srsly if this hater has been going around calling herself a dietician i wanna get her fired or at least publically shamed for it

These are points you could be making in the comments box of the article linked, Ethan.

lol i pasted that into the comments 8-D

nice!

ahha bring the bitch down

also this girl doesnt even really have a gut to speak of, unless they airbrushed it out in the bikini picture.

(It would be good if James May actually was an ""A-list"" celeb.)

http://i25.tinypic.com/2m7jfyc.gif

Nabisco: [the fashion industry's promotion of thinness has not exactly sparked a real-world trend) -- it's more the indirect course of messages about weight/looks causing people to become disordered about those things in ways that have nothing to do with successfully imitating]

- this seems wise to me.

It is easy to attack Daily Mail columnists. It is also usually, from my POV, correct to do so. Most people writing for the Daily Mail are scumbags.

I don't like the nasty, spiteful, vindictive tone of this columnist, attacking a young woman in public this way.

She's right, though, to say that if you look around, most young women are not painfully thin. And in that sense there is something unsatisfying about complaints re. 'anorexic body image', etc -- as though the media is making all girls starve themselves. Evidence of anyone's eyes shows that it isn't. More likely, it's doing what I think Nabisco says: making them feel bad and confused about what they eat / how they look, while they continue to eat it / look that way.

Whether this contestant lassie can or should change that scenario is another issue, I suppose; sounds like Nabisco thinks her presence could do some good.

She has a BMI of 26, which is probably lower than, like, 90% of this board.

-- Dom Passantino, Friday, April 11, 2008 6:26 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Well, I know what this calls for.

Calculate and post your BMI

More likely, it's doing what I think Nabisco says: making them feel bad and confused about what they eat / how they look, while they continue to eat it / look that way.

proof that dieting is like religion

also, the evidence of your eyes doesn't tell you if a person has disordered eating habits. some bodies can diet endlessly and not look like a fashion model's.

Sandwiches also freeze brilliantly. I made my son's entire Christening tea a month in advance, years ago. Cheese tuna and other fish work best, but chicken and beef are also good. Add salad and mayo later. You can freeze an entire month's worth of packed lunches too.

nothing can be more fucked up than this

bell labs is right, too, about the girl's tummy. if she had more flab there, as very many do, then maybe the beauty-powers-that-be would not have smiled on her so readily.

frozen cheese ;_;

Sorry guys, I thought I remembered seeing something in her poo article:

Widely considered one of the country's brightest and most original diet innovators, Monica started her working life as a graduate Food Scientist and nutritionist.

Altho this doesn't necessarily mean she's definitely a professional Dietician. In fact that sentence doesn't actually say what subject she graduated in, does it?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ixzqfo_6MsDdWM:http://www.hslda.org/bookstore/img/diplomainsertsample.gif

She's English I think so by rights graduated ought to at least mean finished University with a 3rd in American Studies and Nobbing the Rugby Team.

I think anything that lessens the intensity of obsession, fixation, shame, dysmorphia, disorder, etc. -- anything that helps the psychological aspects simmer down -- makes it WAY more likely for people to make helpful, non-vexed decisions about their own health and nutrition, yeah.

A few stand-out "role models" in that context might attract some happy rhetoric that sounds (to bad listeners) like some people are pro-being-heavy (as opposed to just pro-themselves-not-being-shamed), sure; it's when nobody's surprised by the thought that this girl can be considered "beautiful" that you'll have reached this far-off non-vexed Utopia where people make their health-and-nutrition decisions based on (gasp) actual goals about health and nutrition.

xposts - that's part of what I meant about an "aesthetics of weight" -- she is larger in the way where it looks natural (like it's how her body kinda wants to be built), and conforms to various ideas we have about what, umm, looks nice. (I totally take Horseshoe's point that you can't judge people's health habits by eye, but "beauty" in this sense seems to have a lot to do with how much it looks like an ideal state for your body vs. a forced or unnatural one.)

(P.S. I didn't mean larger people are "disordered," I mean that a disordered or shame-based or psychologically vexed relationship with weight is unlikely to help a person achieve whatever goals that person might have about things like food, health, and weight.)

i guess why i keep harping on the you can't tell about health from the way people look is because the grenfell-esque hysteria about weight always couches concern in terms of health when it's clearly about meeting a beauty standard. i just wish people like her would stop pretending they give a shit about women's health.

Haha anyone shilling a diet intended to work its magic in the weeks after a boy dumps you = not primarily concerned with women's sustainable physical/mental health, yes, no

yeah for real - i dont pay as much attention when its girls cuz im a dude & stuff but like that guy who wrote the dr* morbz-style blog post about how disgustingly UNHEALTHY seth rogen and jason segal looked had me o_Oing

*not a real doctor

I immediately went, "Oh, shit...I'm stuck with this dude for the whole film." Segel is an obviously bright guy with moderately appealing features, but he also has a chunky, blemished ass and little white man-boobs, and he could definitely use a little treadmill and stairmaster time and a serious cutback program regarding pasta, Frito scoop chips, Ben & Jerry's and Fatburger takeout. I don't relate to this shit at all, I was muttering to myself.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2008/03/galumphy_guys_r.php

yeah, nabisco, but it's not just her. i think there's a lot of muddle-headedness in even wellmeaning "omg people are too fat" discourse. the line between i'm concerned about health and i'm concerned about fuckability is pretty blurry.

more sexxy photoes plz

okay, seriously, the idea that you can look at Jason Segel (who is thin, for fuck's sake) and know what he eats is CRAZY TALK. some serious these are the foods i crave but don't let myself eat projection going on.

Nabisco,

[she is larger in the way where it looks natural (like it's how her body kinda wants to be built)]

I am not sure whether I quite agree with this - first poster on thread thought she looked a bit oddly proportioned in that pic and I think I see that. but of course the truth is, people's bodies (like yours and mine) do look diverse and imperfect.

[it's when nobody's surprised by the thought that this girl can be considered "beautiful" that you'll have reached this far-off non-vexed Utopia where people make their health-and-nutrition decisions based on (gasp) actual goals about health and nutrition.]

but as people have said, we don't really know how healthy she is, or how good or bad her diet is.

it strikes me that in 'the real world' (ie: not pix in the press), people do acclaim girls like that as Beautiful, all the time. if they didn't, then there wouldn't be much acclaim going on. I don't think there is a dearth of such acclaim in the real world. only in what Darren Tackle used to call "the so-called media and that".

i think that's true, pinefox (that people think non hollywood looking girls are pretty all the time) but teenage girls can lack the perspective to see/believe that.

She's right, though, to say that if you look around, most young women are not painfully thin.

this might be true in england but unfortunately not so around my workplace on the upper east side. no butts on anyone, it is weird.

Wait - That girl's (who I think is pretty hot, to be honest) BMI is 26? I don't know - she looks a lot bigger than that. Of course, I could just be saying that becuase mine is 25.7 and she's def bigger than I am. weird.

BMI doesn't really tell you anything about how you look, the height/weight thing is weirdly skewed.

Better role model for youth: prettey BMI 26 lady photographed stood smiling by swimming pool vs author of 6000 books entitled "Lose Shit-tons of Weight at Dangerously Unhealthy Rates because You Hate Him So Damn Much (You Go Girl) (PS you are unacceptable and gross and must give me your moneys to have any hope of becoming less so)"?

If this Grenfell is related to Joyce G I'll have to cry for a week (go on, form an orderly queue to tell me what bad things can be deduced about people fond of dimly-remembered 50s-70s middle-class roffles)

this might be true in england but unfortunately not so around my workplace on the upper east side. no butts on anyone, it is weird.

-- bell_labs, Friday, April 11, 2008 9:09 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

it's partly a class thing -- in whatever the english equivalent of posh manhattan is, the girls are more slender. on the whole.

I wouldn't call vintage Smiths fandom a bad thing.

re bell labs' comment: that does sound weird. you should try walking around my neighbourhood, or the rest of London really. the pursuit of the skeletal is not much in evidence.

but xpost to B: yes, that may well be true; probably I don't see those girls. but by definition, we can agree, they are a Minority.

given that (if I am right) most girls are not very thin, presumably male (gaze?) aesthetics / norms have to adjust to that. ie: any male who rejects / denounces anyone who is not Painfully Thin is going to be alone, by default; and most males, with some experience of the (non-thin) norm will have to be sensible enough to adjust from whatever BS norms Hollywood / magazine covers / etc have offered them. ?

xxp Nah, Joyce G was an OG zing crew member.

I guess I may have vaguely been thinking of Yootha Joyce more than Joyce Grenfell - who served on the Pilkington Committee for TV, along with Richard Hoggart, you know

presumably male (gaze?) aesthetics / norms have to adjust to that

People are often quite handy at negotiating cognitive dissonance tho.

i don't think she is attractive enough to be miss britain, all save-a-fattey-ism aside.

^^^ Protecting standards

i guess that, to be "miss britain", you gotta want it. the (rought estimate) four more-attractive-than-this-girl total strangers i saw on the street today probably didn't apply.

I'm all for giving Miss Britain to someone who isn't gonna go and get spitroasted by Bradley Wright-Phillips and Jermain Pennant in celebration, tbh, so if it takes this lass, so be it.

she looks aite to me but looks like a state fair chick kinda... would have to see other miss britains before i could talk STANDARDS lol

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/finalists2.php

last year's be like damn, iirc

having clicked, no, not her. maybe 2006.

wrong again, that was the racist danielle lloyd. can't be bothered to look further into this.

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/110_1.jpg

Thing is I don't care what you look like, if you're "Miss Doncaster" I'm not gonna get my bone on.

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/179_1.jpg
oh god this one

^^^ this is "negging" right?

xpost

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/179_1.jpg

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/179_1.jpg
oh god this one

-- bell_labs, Friday, 11 April 2008 21:32 (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

This is what British standards of beauty are.

Thing is I don't care what you look like, if you're "Miss Doncaster" I'm not gonna get my bone on.

-- Noodle Vague, Friday, 11 April 2008 21:32 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

Believe this is known as the "Michelle Marsh speaks" effect.

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/135_main.jpg
UUUUUUUUUUUUUURGNH

Miss News of the World appears to be sculpted from porcelain

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/model/173.php

"Miss Middlesbrough"

"Miss Heckmondwicke"

"Miss Goole"

xp where'd my image go

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/173_1.jpg

http://www.preetidesai.net/images/photogallery/large/image_06.jpg

this is who i was thinking of, she got the prize after d. lloyd had it taken away.

http://www.miss-england.co.uk/images/model/99_main.jpg
is this "miss myspace"?

or maybe miss doesn't look good in closeups?

"Miss Lidl"

heck of an outfit

There really is a Miss Grimsby and District

Miss Bargain Booze
Miss Favourite Fried Chicken
Miss BetFred

Was hoping there was a Ms England competition for friends of Dorothy but when I google it I just get stuff about Lynndie.

http://www.preetidesai.net/images/photogallery/large/image_06.jpg

this chick is aite but i found some other pics where she was lookin madd generic.... i <3 indian girls like nobodys business but she aint a stunna

Was hoping there was a Ms England competition for friends of Dorothy but when I google it I just get stuff about Lynndie.

-- Noodle Vague, Friday, 11 April 2008 21:41 (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Mr Gay UK

http://mrgayuk.co.uk/home/index.php?image=41646&size=full

i work with like 80000x hot indian girls but they're all married. :(

Mr Gay Cockermouth

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ruth_fowler/2008/04/flab_isnt_fab.html

Wonderful to see The Guardian hate fat people too.

lol ILX pin-up journo ruth fowler

She's the powerblogger Tony Naylor could have been.

yeah i witheld linking that owing to this being hate-on-the-times week but srsly guardian FUCK OFF.

xpost

yeah naylor kind of fell off? maybe we gave him too much attention too early.

Scott Carson of bloggers.

Wow. What a bitch.

always seems to me there must be a link between the kinds of weight levels in eg UK today (probably US too), and relatively widespread affluence, society of consumption; 'fat is a capitalist issue'? (most, or at least many, of us are examples of this, M and F)

made me wonder what alternative / comparison would be - maybe eg. typical weight / body mass / shape in old Eastern Europe? I wonder if most (young?) women were thin in old East Berlin, Bulgaria etc

this is not at all an argument for being like them: it is good that totalitarianism fell.

contemporary capitalist society / culture with consumption everywhere, including food / drink, generates diet manias in reaction / compensation / etc? perhaps this seems obvious.

she is the guardian's resident troll. did other articles like how liberals are gay and getting paid for giving blowjobs is cool, etc. challenging opinions indeed.

xpost

xpost

Like banry said tho, it isn't generally the most affluent people in our country that pile on the pounds.

these articles are making me think that burt_stanton could have a writing career after all.

xxp Son of Burchill

they should have centered the St. George's Crosses on her nipples

NV, that is true, and I was thinking about B's point prior to thinking of mine. but I still think that in general, levels of consumption (of Everything!) are higher in UK than ever before. and I would guess that people in the UK (both sexes) are also heavier than ever before. in a way, the most affluent are protected from FX of this, or go out of their way to avoid it, with special regimes, diets, trainers, etc? so the big physical evidence of rising 'living standards' / affluence / whatever would not be among the rich.

another historical comparison would be eg UK late 1940s, when people were still growing vegetables, food was rationed etc -- surely if one could see figures, they would tell us average weight / size / fat in UK was much lower then?

this also makes me think that claims re what's 'natural' in contemporary capitalist society ('women naturally look big like that', etc), while perhaps well-intentioned, are not quite correctly phrased -- so much history / society has intervened.

people in the UK (both sexes) are also heavier than ever before.

we're unquestionably *taller* than our parents' or grandparents' generation. and rich people are taller than the rest too.

It's certainly true that my parents' consumption of, for want of a better word, crap is way higher now than even when I was a child. I josh my dad about his experience of rationing giving him a ridiculously sweet tooth, but even when he makes an effort to eat well he seems oblivious to how much sugar, fat etc he's eating regularly. It's not at all surprising that if you can get these things cheaply you'll gorge on them - our brains are probably still hard-wired to do that.

In all seriousness a bag of crisps was kind of a treat when I was 10. It appears to be a daily staple for most everybody I know now, including me.

Pinefox, there's scads of writing on this topic -- what a lot of it would tell you is that it's not a matter of pure affluence allowing people to consume more, it's a matter of the things we're consuming becoming increasingly removed from the foods the human body is meant to operate on. (Processed foods, high-fructose corn syrup, modified fats, etc. etc.) This is part of why the U.S., at least, has higher rates of obesity among the working class (who are more likely to eat lots of low-cost processed foods) than richer people (who might have the money / leisure time to deal with lots of fresh produce and high-end health foods etc.). There are some cultural habits surrounding that, too.

As far as old Bulgaria goes, I think one huge difference in our thinking is that people used to be very much in touch with the idea that women's bodies tend to change across a lifetime! Which is something modern standards do a weird amount of work to pretend isn't (or "doesn't have to be") true.

http://logo.cafepress.com/2/3367831.3997742.jpg

Nabisco, I agree, and those thoughts are not very new to me, though I could not have named the products as you do. Nonetheless, people in our societies - not 'rich people' - are consuming more than they did. More iPods, more DVDs, more cars, more holidays. More alcohol, more fast food, more slow food, more food in between the other food. I certainly am (apart from the iPod). Maybe you are too. and I am sure that in an era when all consumed less, people were less fat. but you're right, what we eat matters. (but what I eat is quite healthy on the whole, and I still get fatter and fatter: the amount matters too!)

I agree re. the women's-bodies-changing point too, in old-Bulgaria or otherwise (picturing an ancient shawled crone, whether shrivelled or bulbous); and re. this becoming a problem, or something to be negated or deferred, in our society.

Dear R. Fowler,
Since reading your controversial anti-feminist blog on the Guardian website, I think you would be proud to know that I have opened my mind and dared to think some very un-feminist thoughts. In particular, I have this recurring bolt of "daerest woman who churns out these 'I am a pretty young woman and my life has been easy, what are these disgusting uglies whining about?' articles, I am so gonna laugh when you get a bit older and saggier", oh, a couple of times a week since that first glimpse of enlightenment. Thank you! I am truly freed now.
Yrs,
Fattey McSpacecadet

god ruth fowler is a moron. why do papers print this shit?

1. Whip up zing-shark frenzy on ILX
2. ????
3. PROFIT

i know. it was a dumb question; her article just reminded me of that ridiculousness the Atlantic published, "Marry Him!" which i know probably got them page views or whatever, but it's so embarrassing for a once-respectable magazine to publish stuff like that.

the phrase 'dom et al' is making me laugh more than it should do

who is this al dude? is he in lbzc?

dom, ethan, al shipley

they didnt approve my comment http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/f-u.gif

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Launch?study=/user/education/weight/weight.expt.xml

As such, the score should serve as an opportunity for self-reflection

Fuck you, Harvard.