Mad Men on the BBC

<3 Salvatore Romano

He looks like a weird distortion of a Baldwin.

About last night, but, you know, from a while ago.

Did Peggy look, um, stouter to anyone last night? Someone was suggesting they were padding her up to later pull a Plain Jane transformation.

Didn't notice her looking stouter, but I've thought a transformation was on the cards from the beginning - she's always had greasy skin and hair.

She's well cast, looks-wise. At first glance she's kind of plain, but there's definately something very sexy about her.

Did Peggy look, um, stouter to anyone last night?

stet otm!

Also lolling at "can I drop you off at the station?"

Loved the ending! I expected her to stare wistfully at the Symbolic Birds, not start shooting the fuckers! This was totally Betty's episode, and for the first time I have the teensiest bit of sympathy for her.

TS: Betty's homing pigeons vs Tony Soprano's bear

Anyone else fancy the pants off red headed office bitch?

Another terrific episode.

>Did Peggy look, um, stouter to anyone last night?

During last week's twist sequence my wife said "they've padded her", no doubt to allow the transformation to hottness as you say, stet. Office redhead is already *blazing* hott, although this is as much to do with Christina Hendrick's turn in Firefly and related fanboy shame.

Anyone with some historical economic smarts around here? So Don settled for $45k salary, that must have been some serious coin back in the early sixties! What would it convert to?

The Inflation Calculator Knows: $316790.51

$303K, according to this.. That's a hell of a wage if it's accurate.

I was pleased to find out that Betty's such a good shot.

x-post: that is some crazy loot! makes sense though if Pete is complaining that Don is not "ten times better than me".

The birds riff was another nice nod to the Sopranos I thought (with its early duck obsession), the bit where their dog did a mid-air om-nom-nom on the pigeon was hilarious. That final scene of Betty in her housedress, cig dangling and firing away gave me proper lols too.

Nice interview with Jon Hamm in The Observer yesterday:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/apr/27/television

It's my favourite thing on television. I adore the care that seems to have been put into every aspect of its recreation: the costumes, the sets, the colours, the way the actors move and talk. It's so refreshing to have a period drama that's neither portrayed fetishistically nor sloppy and "the people back then were just like us!" about it.

The episode with the lipstick-brainstorming session and Betty telling Draper how she aches all day for his coming home was my favourite so far. I'm so glad to find a show with a really strong central pairing. Their relationship is such a rich seam. He so enigmatic, even before the changed-identity storyline was told, she so ... I don't know what the word is. I think January Jones is just phenomenally good at making Betty – the kind of woman who'd usually be a prissy stock character – the heart of the show. It's interesting that other people were laughing at the pigeon shoot. I thought it was an emotionally devastasting ending. I was in shocked tears!

And Christina Hendricks, yes, what a fucking woman.

How well is this doing in the US ratings? Is its future secure?

definitely a second season at least, which is filming now and should air in a few months. It won a Golden Globe for best drama series, and also a Peabody (not that anybody really cares about that, though they should), so it should be alright. Also, it's an AMC original program and is now their flagship. Can't imagine it will go anywhere soon save for a creative decision.

Also, the first season dvd set comes in an awesome lighter packaging.

Great news. Thanks.

http://media.tumblr.com/aGkz4XFcZ872u7x00HJm1D54_400.jpg

WANT.

I was shocked to discover yesterday - the Guardian is good for something after all - that creepy younger ad dude who is having the affair with Peggy was Angel's son, Conor!

Anyone else feel this week's was rather unsubtle by the standards of the show? Still packed with great moments, of course.

Did Joan pick up men that unpleasant merely as a warped way of getting back at her room mate,do youthink, or are there some hitherto unsuspected deep self-esteem issues in her character?

I'd never heard of this until I saw the other day that it had won a Golden Globe. It sounds pretty great.

It's better than that.

Better than what?

Pretty great.

I didn't like last week's quite as much, no. Joan is certainly a mix of sexual liberation and fucked-up I'm-the-queen-bee-ness issues when it comes to men.

It's interesting that it's on the BBC in the UK, because it really does not have a high profile here at all. Who knew that AMC even did original programming? (But I think Gukbe must be right -- it will continue because it is now AMC's flagship show.)

It doesn't have an enormously high profile here either. The Guardian was smart enough, when it launched, to put it on the front of its weekly TV guide with a feature and the cover line "Warning: Mad Men is addictive", which is how I got interested. But BBC One buries it very late at night on a Monday, though it airs the night before on the (digital only, tiny audience, highbrow channel) BBC Four channel.

-channel

Every time this is on, there are three or four people talking to each other in a medium shot, one of those people is a stunning blonde who is perfectly put together and the other two people are men in suits and slick groomed hair. The room they're in is underlit and the walls are a dark olive green or rich red, as if designed by David Lynch. They all seem very satisfied with themselves. I swear it is the exact same shot each time.

Still loving this, but I didn't like Campbell taking the package *at all*. There's no way he takes that. It's not that it's too "evil" for him (I think we're meant to think he'll do just about anything in the service of his ambition), it's just: what, he's gonna start taking Draper's mail? He doesn't know the package contains something incriminating sent by DD's secret, now-dead brother. He's just randomly taking mail. Seems a little more contrived than the show has been so far.

Yeah, I had the same thoughts. Not completely decided about it, though.

They really know how to do a closing shot though. Peggy turning to the Rejuvenator or whatever it's called now was perfect.

Agreed about the package.

It's interesting that it's on the BBC in the UK, because it really does not have a high profile here at all.

depends on what you mean by high profile. it was all over the u.s. print media, lots of newspaper and magazine features, beloved by a lot of tv critics, etc. i don't know what that translated into in terms of viewers, but it got a golden globe for best tv series, and jon hamm got one for best actor.

and tracer otm about those medium shots. i think lynch is a big visual influence on the series.

A+++ origin story; will not spoil it for Tuesday nighters.

^^^real talk

Loved how the compositionof their scenes together emphasised how physically imposing Don is next to Pete.

Alba, your 28.4 post was well written.

Hand, I like your post about the shot or whatever. could you please put me in touch with

[a stunning blonde who is perfectly put together]

?

I don't really agree about the 'addictive' thing. I think silly internet sites are addictive. I don't think good TV series are. They're hard work and you need to concentrate on them and so on.

There are certainly some lovely ladies in the programme, which reminds me of the time that Alba or N. said 'I know the pinefox thinks all the ladies on television are beautiful'.

Loved how the composition of their scenes together emphasised how physically imposing Don is next to Pete.

OTM. I'd hoped that Don was going to give that fucking snake Pete a proper hiding, but to no avail. There were a couple of other nice shots in this episode that played on Don's physicality in a similar way: when Pete gives him the package and the camera zooms in behind him (then into flashback). Also, when Don stalks down the corridor to confront Pete and does a little shoulder roll it was like the camera following a boxer into the ring, which I guess was the point.

Am in full agreement re: origin story. Perfect.

Predictions and/or guesses for next week (the season finale)?

Stirling dies?
Rachel's pregnant?
Betty kills herself/attempts suicide?
Campbell goes to Betty with Draper's secret?

The only actual prediction I'm making is that Peggy will feature big in the last episode. The weight gain/ostracization has to have been building up to something.

Pregnant by Campbell?

SHUSH

Oh fuck

depends on what you mean by high profile. it was all over the u.s. print media, lots of newspaper and magazine features, beloved by a lot of tv critics, etc. i don't know what that translated into in terms of viewers, but it got a golden globe for best tv series, and jon hamm got one for best actor.

Yeah, I didn't hear about it until the Globes. But maybe I am just not that tuned in when it comes to TV. Most of my TV recommendations come from ILX.

a stunning blonde who is perfectly put together

Yeah, who would this be? I can only think of Draper's wife, who is almost never seen with the suits.

But anyway, this series is stone cold solid gold.

Campbell goes to Betty with Draper's secret?

My money's on this. He'd do it out of spite.

o shi

Could a person really get to the end of a pregnancy without noticing?

I do think it's been known to happen.

Anyway, utterly mesmeric as always. I'll miss it.

Yeah, it got *so* good by the end of the season, as a good series should. So much subtext!

i dont like the flashbacks.

Don's "Carousel" pitch was my favourite piece of TV this year, by some margin. The way it combined him doing the thing he is so good at (being an ad man) with the thing he is so bad at (being a husband and father) was beautifully done.

Season 2 in July apparently, I *really* hope the BBC pick this up again.

Yeah, the voiceover, er, over the final credits said something like "That's the last episode of the series, but don't worry, it'll be back."

Great in-depth interview with Matthew Weiner

Cheers, Alba - that's fascinating.

Found it via the TV critic Alan Sepinwall's blog, which is really worth reading. He does long posts about each episode. Used to read his really good stuff on The Wire.

Really.

A reminder for UKers: new series starts tonight, 10pm, BBC4.

Can't wait, there's been fuck-all worth watching for months.

Wolfed down a load of favourite episodes from the dvd set at the weekend and this is *essential* viewing tonight. Every other US import I watch gets torrented as soon as it's shown over there, but I wanted the week on week viewing anticipation from this and have stringently avoided the season 2 thread - which will probably bait someone to spoilerise this one.

I watched it week to week ... as it showed in the US. No spoilerizers, but you're in for a treat.

yah for real. i was too impatient to wait for it to show here too. alba's right, this season is so awesome.

I can't wait for this either

ive befriended all the 'cast' on twitter in preparation of the new series starting tonight.

I think that is a bad idea.

I've stayed away from the AMC thread here, I just need to stop myself reading episode recaps on Wikipedia.

Direct message from Betty Draper

Happy New Year, and thank you for being my friend. A pregnant wife and mother cannot have too many friends.

Betty Draper / betty_draper

doesnt that have a spoiler in it?

Yes, spoilers would be one good reason not to follow fan Twitters.

this thread (and others) have already spoiled a couple of things for me.

someone needs to create a betty draper on twitter for UK viewers.

The Guardian's TV preview had this to say:

What to say about the drama lately dubbed the best on television? That it can be quite dull? That it's a triumph of style over substance, a wasted opportunity to skewer the hollowness of the American dream? That it's one of those shows that people say they like because they think they should? All of the above are true, but let's add that it's also smug and slow. Still, it does look pretty.

Complete bollocks, of course. I thought the season opener was as good as could possibly be hoped for; Particular highlights were Betty's entrance, Joan laying the smackdown on Peggy by way of a photocopier and "Young people don't know anything -- especially that they're young." Don's "take your hat off" order in the lift was priceless too.

I read that, what a tit. I bet he's only watched one or two episodes.

I don't have much to say about last night's except it was wonderful as always. Oh, and I'm enjoying the new kick-arse Peggy.

i've had absolutely no desire to see this show.. the milieu, the culture, all of it just feels like something i'm glad doesn't exist any more

The show's hypercritical of those things, even as it nostalgically fetishises them to some extent.

yeah, the ads for it and the production values involved make it look like 100% fetishisation

It's genuinely a lot more interesting and subversive than that.

seriously, your loss.

What to say about the drama lately dubbed the best on television? That it can be quite dull? That it's a triumph of style over substance, a wasted opportunity to skewer the hollowness of the American dream? That it's one of those shows that people say they like because they think they should? All of the above are true, but let's add that it's also smug and slow. Still, it does look pretty.

fucking hell the guardian is full of wankers, part kazillion.

chap otm.

i'm not worked up about it, but a lot of my friends seem to like this show which from the outside looks like some glossy retrograde bullshit - i'm interested in the ways in which it subverts its own production values and advertising i guess, if that's what you're saying it does

An example is that it often lets you wallow in the glamour, wit and sumptuousness for a while before pulling the rug from under you with an act of casual repugnance from one character or other.

lovely

It's a pretty dark show at heart.

a show subverting its own advertising would be pretty much bullshit. who even cares? i'm not very familiar with the ads, at any rate.

it's a show set in the 60s, and has convincing production design and costume -- that's about it. there isn't much more to say. anyone who watches 'mad men' and finds historical verisimilitude the most salient thing about it isn't very good at watching things.

pro-tip for viewers: it isn't about a culture that doesn't exist any more.

xpost

i think chap is off the money. i don't think the characters are *particularly* repugnant, as if repugnancy is something in the past, at any rate. and at least in the second season, there ain't much wit, glamour, etc.

yeah i dunno - i guess i should stop talking about it and actually watch it but it still sorta sounds like "the angst of assholish marketing professionals part 2,923,156,108"

No.

convincing

it's a show set in the 60s, and has convincing production design and costume-- that's about it.

Surely everything didn't really look that pretty in the early 60s, even in that social strata? It's saying something about our notions of the golden-hued 'good old days' as well.

It took me a couple of episodes of season 1 to settle into it, but there's a hell of a lot more to Mad Men than the surface pizazz would suggest. Mind you, I don't think the amazing sets, furniture, clothes and styling actually, y'know, hurt anything.

It's certainly not just "the angst of assholish marketing professionals part 2,923,156,108". I mean, Don is an huge asshole at times, but the show is absolutely not just about him.

it's a show set in the 60s, and has convincing production design and costume -- that's about it. there isn't much more to say.

this sounds amazingly dull

and yeah chap otm, from what i've seen of the ads everything looks extra-luxe, expensive and clean - if there's one thing i know it's that the past is dirtier than the present, less luxe and put-together; it's why merchant-ivory has always been such a con - all those victorian townhouses were leaky and drafty, peoples' skin was horrible and hair was usually kept in place with emulsified pigfat

This is like Daft Punk all over again.

I think he meant by "there isn't much more to say" that there isn't much more to say about the show's 'gimmick'. It's a great show because it's a great show, not because of itss period details, shiny design, etc.

yup

tho tbh i don't get why 'being stylish' and 'having kick-ass production design' is a problem.

strongest individual season of tv since the wire sn.1

It's only a problem if you haven't seen the show--the promotion for it here *has* made it seem pretty dumb and one note.

xpost obv

i did see the bbc's trailer, with 'paint it black' playing... it was just confusing above all.

they should just show don's carousel speech, as the trailer. or 30 seconds of christina hendricks, whichever.

ok so i watched around 40 minutes of this last night and i feel like a mongolian at a baseball game. like, "what are they seeing that i'm not seeing?" ... it all seems just unbelievably telegraphed and overdetermined. "look how much bourbon he's pouring!" the camera says. "look at the muted grays and blues in this office!" it says elsewhere. "look, look - she's flirting with the mechanic!" i feel like i'm watching a hitchcock movie where the clues don't actually lead anywhere.

it's also weirdly chaste for a program that's supposed to be showing you a high-def portrait of a blurry era (i guess that's basic cable for you though) - it's too bad - a few "fucks" would be very welcome (though might not jive with the whole unmussed fit-and-finish of the show)

the ad exec's little speech about the advertising business when presented with an unimaginative campaign idea was dreary, a low point - ironic since its whole point was to cheerlead for pizzaz and emotion as a way to break through in a conformist world. it was blandly written but even so it should have been a showcase for this actor; instead he lowballs it fatally and this long speech (probably at least a page in the script) becomes totally unememorable

did you just jump into the second season? because a lot of those scenes would really mean nothing if you hadn't seen the first.

ok, scrolling up, it seems that you have. scene with betty and the mechanic was super tense when i first saw it.

betty in particular is played by a disastrously boring actress imo

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ehhzu7.gif

good point

It's tough when people don't like what you like

Tracer, none of what you say is striking any chord with to me. I know it's frustrating when other people hold something in wildly higher esteem, and you're torn between wondering if you have a vastly more sophisticated mind, or if they are seduced by the emperor's new clothes or if ... you are just the simpleton yourself.

All I can suggest is you I suggest you either start watching from the start, or read what other people have to say about the episode you watched (try Alan Sepinwall. Or just accept it's not for you.

the ad exec's little speech about the advertising business when presented with an unimaginative campaign idea was dreary, a low point - ironic since its whole point was to cheerlead for pizzaz and emotion as a way to break through in a conformist world. it was blandly written but even so it should have been a showcase for this actor; instead he lowballs it fatally and this long speech (probably at least a page in the script) becomes totally unememorable

I think this speech is less about cheerleading for pizzaz and emotion than it is his own attempts to maintain what he's good at in advertising and deny the possibility of the 'younger' way of thinking. The Volkswagon "Lemon" ad came out in the first season, and he hated it. Now he's got the new guy Duck in trying to get these young 24 year olds in to jazz up the ad campaigns with 'youth-oriented'(kennedy-era idealism and irony etc...) ideas.

also, the betty and the mechanic thing pays off character-wise if not plot wise

Mad Men is largely a character-driven series. The plot is the progression through the 1960s, and the slow reveal of Don Draper's past. And Betty Draper's future.

Hang on a minute, Tracer: you're starting to watch what is -- as Alba rightly points out -- a fundamentally character-driven show after missing 13 FUCKING EPISODES (or however many there are) of the first season that, y'know, TELL YOU A SHITLOAD ABOUT THE FUCKING CHARACTERS, and you're wondering what you're missing?

Dude, come on, that's just barking :)

gukbe yes - it was about trying to establish advertising as a craft that can't just be mindlessly sexed up that's true. i guess i'm misremembering it because it was so crushingly dull.

i would read what sepinwall says, but i have idea what the title of that particular episode way.

i fear i will not have the patience to start from the beginning. i like whole series of things but not if the individual episodes are only entertaining in relation to the whole.

i also think much of my problem is that i want to spend exactly zero time with any of these characters - kind of a problem in a character-driven drama - xpost

have NO idea ... episode WAS ..

gah

it's also weirdly chaste for a program that's supposed to be showing you a high-def portrait of a blurry era (i guess that's basic cable for you though) - it's too bad - a few "fucks" would be very welcome (though might not jive with the whole unmussed fit-and-finish of the show)

Well yes, they do have to work within the confines of basic cable. HBO would have allowed for more, but apparently they have committed to horny vampires and In Treatment.

i like whole series of things but not if the individual episodes are only entertaining in relation to the whole

B-b-but ... wouldn't it be fairer -- on yourself and on the show -- to start at the beginning? I mean, sure, if you watch the first ep and think, nah, that's shit: fair game.

But to start at what -- if you look at it as a continuing drama -- is a long way from the beginning and go: "Here, I don't like these people and I've no idea what they're up to" ... well, what do you expect?

I guess it's the difference between TV series and TV serial ...

i'd not bother with it, if you don't like it, rather than offer up arbitrary criticisms along the lines of "to enjoy a drama, we must want to spend time with the characters" -- like, what?

Yes, I don't like watching TV series where you have to watch every single episode - esp. if, like so many of these US shows - they last for YEARS. Life's too short.

nrq if it's a character-driven drama and i'm supposedly going to dedicate weeks of my time determining if i like it or not, wouldn't it seem a little masochistic if i didn't like the characters?

grimly i think the diff is this - it's TV. you come in when you come in. i haven't fully converted to the DVD mindset yet i guess, and i like it that way. it keeps things casual. i'm not ready to get too serious too quickly.

one of the things that's so amazing about deadwood, for instance, is how subtly and consistently they re-tell you who everyone is and what the issues are at the beginning of each episode - mad men appears to dispense with this courtesy entirely

the episode was entitled "for those who think young" (or something like that)

mad men is more in the sopranos frame of mind, though with fewer characters so you're not as confused. deadwood also had to contend with a pretty difficult language, which it did wonderfully. but that show is impossible to fully understand without watching every episode.

im pretty sure that isn't true, tbh, about deadwood. which i like, but it's no mad men. having to have every character in every episode, let along the start of each episode, is a big ol' hassle.

but then the characters in deadwood didn't change a hell of a lot. mad men series two starts with some quite significant changes having occured in between seasons.

no-one is forcing you to watch any of it!

nrq do you really feel that you can enjoy multiple season of a television show without liking the characters?

just bought the first season box cheap on amazon

do you really feel that you can enjoy multiple season of a television show without liking the characters?

man if it wasn't for that occasional scene Meadow Soprano got...

pretty much, yeah.

i don't "like" vic mackey in 'the shield' or tony soprano or, even schillinger in 'oz', but there is something keeping me watching them.

not doing a 'david simon is our shakespeare' thing but i don't think we're meant to like the characters in tragedy, necessarily.

xposts

i like a lot of the characters in deadwood, the wire, even seinfeld.

i've read what that guy has to say about the episode i watched. it wasn't very interesting. i was surprised that he wrote this about the montage of characters watching jackie kennedy on television: "it's nice to see how people actually reacted to them in those early days of Camelot."

"actually"?

"to enjoy a drama, we must want to spend time with the characters" -- like, what?

Well, I don't think he means "spend time with" in terms of taking them out for dinner and then inviting them back to yours for coffee. But at the most reductive level: if you don't enjoy watching the characters and the things they do, you're probably not going to like the drama in which they play a role, are you?

Yes, I don't like watching TV series where you have to watch every single episode - esp. if, like so many of these US shows - they last for YEARS. Life's too short.

See, my approach is almost the polar opposite to this. There's pretty much fuck all I bother with on British TV now: Mad Men is the only thing currently being broadcast that I'd go out of my way to watch. I also watch Lost every week, but I have to fucking steal that in order to do so. And at some point I'll get round to the next season of The Wire (I've slowly watched the first two on DVD and loved them.)

But that's it. I've made a commitment of sorts to those three shows, and I'll watch the lot, no matter how long it takes, because ... well, because they appeal to me that strongly. Everything else, though -- the CSIs that Mrs Fiendish watches; the odd sitcom -- is something I might keep half an eye on if I happen to be in the same room.

grimly i think the diff is this - it's TV. you come in when you come in

It won't surprise you that I disagree: I think that when you've got drama of the calibre of The Wire or Mad Men (and even Lost, despite its myriad flaws), it transcends the traditional notion of TV as light entertainment and becomes a serial entity in itself: something you have to make the aforementioned commitment to. In a time of cheap DVDs and even cheaper Torrents, is that such a big ask? ;)

Deadwood is one of those things I'd like to think I'll get round to watching before I die. The swearing appeals, if nothing else. But it wouldn't even occur to me to start anywhere other than S01 E01.

OK, actually is a bad word.

I think your disdain is becoming militant, and I don't think there's any point trying to argue the point any more. Different strokes ...

x-post

the odd sitcom

Actually, that's a point: The IT Crowd was something I'd make sure not to miss. But then it's not exactly comparable with Mad Men/The Wire/Lost/etc ;)

ALSO: shit, the idea of "unmissable" TV is hardly a new one, is it? In fact, I'm sure my parents would argue that, back in the three-channel days, there was a lot more stuff like that: things you'd have to watch from the start, and pay rigorous attention to, in order to appreciate.

Can't think of any off the top of my head, right enough, but still ...

in 5-10 years we'll have our own custom TV stations online showing programmes on demand at the times we set - because even taking a disc out of a box and putting it into a player will be too much effort

shows like Deadwood, the Wire, and Mad Men use the length of a television season (and series) to really get the most out of the narrative. Deadwood might work better because there are more obvious Things That Have To Be Done, and so one level you have certain storylines paying off a bit sooner, but they usually feed into something larger. Of course the joy of deadwood is in the characters, how they develop and change, and perhaps on a larger scale, how the community and society emerge out of the seemingly disparate parts and animosities.

Even the Sopranos had season-long narrative arcs (a war with NY or various situations coming to a head), and though they might seem a lot less obvious, Mad Men has them too. Of course, watching season 1 of Mad Men the viewer can be taken in pretty quickly with the "Don Draper isn't who he says he is" mystery that drives it.

Much better than Sepinwall would be the (now sadly deceased) Andrew Johnston recaps/discussions from the house next door: http://www.thehousenextdooronline.com/2008/07/mad-men-mondays-season-two-episode-1.html

Though I'm not sure why you'd want to devote more time to it than you already have.

I've made a commitment of sorts to those three shows

I have commitment problems

In fact, I'm sure my parents would argue that, back in the three-channel days, there was a lot more stuff like that: things you'd have to watch from the start, and pay rigorous attention to, in order to appreciate.

Were there that many series that lasted 5-10 years? And that you had to "commit to"?

no-one is forcing you to watch any of it!

― Ecstasy Mother Forster (special guest stars mark bronson), Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:27 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe my disain is militant! but i was actually surprised at how bad i found it.

grimly i don't think that season-long arcs or satisfying single episodes are mutually exclusive, but i think a show does need at least the latter to work as tv. i appreciate that there are people who will make the effort to come in at the beginning though and that in the whizzy on-demand future this will become much more the norm.

btw alba i'm not trying to get you to come around to my point of view, i'm just wondering what it is that you get out of this show. the points in its favor.

i haven't seen any of this series "on television," and do prefer watching torrents or dvds at my own discretion. i don't know a single person who has seen 'the wire' on TV either. it doesn't need to work "as tv" for me in that way.

would take 13-16 episode season over 24 episode season generally...on the basis that most shows like this don't tend to get beyond 5-6 seasons.

Someone going "This is shit, tell me why it's good, tell me why it's good" doesn't inspire me to go to the effort of articulating my appreciation for something (which I find difficult at the best of times). It just intimidates and blocks me.

four things id say, before coming to anything else: acting, script, direction, set design are all excellent. if you're not feeling that, which tracer isn't, there isn't much point in going further.

Alba OTM this has been really bugging me with some people lately (i mean more than usual)

It is difficult to explain, especially if you haven't seen the first series. It should be noted that there are no characters in the show that represent some ideal goodness. Pretty much every character is forever trying to figure things out in a changing world, and it's beautiful how their arcs develop, especially when contrasted to the others. Don/Peggy, Peggy/Joan, Betty/Peggy/Joan. They start off as fairly recognizable 'types' and reveal themselves to be much more over time. Even Pete, who starts off as pretty one-dimensional corporate climber asshole is given great depth (reacting against his parents, his background, his insecurities, and the two-potential father figures in Duck and Don). Even the relatively minor characters like Sal are given time to breathe and develop in satisfying (and heartbreaking) ways despite limited amounts of time devoted to them.

on top of all of that, you have the social changes of the time interfering with the status quo, and the larger ideas of identity in America.

acting, script, direction, set design are all excellent. if you're not feeling that, which tracer isn't, there isn't much point in going further.

you're not saying that those are the best things about the show (as opposed to the storyline and characterisation) tho right?

i wonder if it's a milieu that's more attractive or exotic if you're not from the united states. it makes me think a little of me asking my dad why he'd never read "friday night lights", a novel about the pressures of being a high-school football star in west texas. which he was. he was like "i've spent my life trying to escape from that, why would i want to read a whole book about it?"

gukbe that's a nice argument for the show!

you're not saying that those are the best things about the show (as opposed to the storyline and characterisation) tho right?

― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:21 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

id say those two come under script/acting/direction... it isn't just the storyline but the way the story is unfolded, not just the acting but the way character is revealed.

im from the us, and i love this show. so does my mom, who was born about the same time dons two kids.

I react most strongly to Don and Betty. Don's alpha-maleness comes from a strange place that it is endlessly fascinating to work out, his strength in his world and passion for advertising undercut by his tendency for flight. Betty, like Don, is not someone I identify with, or would be drawn to in real life, but my sympathy for her lot really hits home nearly every episode. I think January Jones plays her beautifully. I love the little head-bobbings she puts on when she's happy playing the model wife, the ease with which she slips into cruel petulance, and the sadness of her scenes with Bobby, the doting son of her neighbour.

and the sadness of her scenes with Bobby, the doting son of her neighbour

Yes: I'm not going to get into some waxing-lyrical thing about why I love this show, but those were infrequent and perfect enough to hook me by themselves.

Betty, like Don, is not someone I identify with, or would be drawn to in real life, but my sympathy for her lot really hits home nearly every episode. I think January Jones plays her beautifully. I love the little head-bobbings she puts on when she's happy playing the model wife, the ease with which she slips into cruel petulance, and the sadness of her scenes with Bobby, the doting son of her neighbour.

yeah. the show has a genius for this, making you sympathize with characters against your inclinations.

otm. i think that should factor in if you really don't like the characters from the start. i can disagree with what a lot of them do, but still love them. several of my friends are still very resistant to the idea of Pete being anything other than an asshole, but for me what at first seemed like "what a dick thing to do" eventually became kind of tragically desperate. Also, there are great 'fuck yeah' moments, i.e. betty with the rifle and the birds in the first season.

also, this show can be funny as hell.

Pretty much anything with Roger Sterling, for example.

i was about to say. i like to whine about mad men + unlikable characters but i love that dude.

xposts

Pete is -- history aside, judging on behaviour alone -- a complete and utter phallus BUT he's actually the one character I find most fascinating (cf what I was trying clumsily to get across earlier about the difference between "liking" as in rooting for and "liking" as a dramatic creation).

Although there's a little part of me that does want Pete to succeed, so ... yeh, what horseshoe said about sympathising, really.

Pretty much anything with Roger Sterling, for example

His second heart attack being the key case in point: "Not again!" as he falls to the floor with fag in one hand and club sandwich in the other.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/fez_/madmen_smoke.gif

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/fez_/madmen_smoke.gif

Whoops.

but i think a show does need at least the latter to work as tv.
this is just wrong. There are some TV classics -- Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy springs to mind -- where later episodes would have been unbearably incomprehensible if seen in isolation, but work together to make something great.

Nick and Steve otm about not liking having to work uphill to defend something against "it's shite", but that said I think I like Mad Men partly because some of the characters are unlikeable. I don't have to like someone to care about what happens to them, and as voyeurism into incipient misery it's great.

(Though I did finish the first ep of the second series and think "not a high point, that" tbh)

I started with Season 2 and had no problem getting into it. Weiner obviously learned a lot from working on The Sopranos, and in both cases, the deadpanning cinematic explorations, the total effect of visual and Point Of View, drew me in much more quickly than the ol' rolling filing cabinet drawer of The Wire has (but I'll stay with that too). The probs of stoking and controlling your drives, self-discipline in the cause of self-gratification, even trickier in some ways here than The Sopranons, because advertising is more legit--though I'm as old as Don's kids (so possibly easier for me to get into it),and recall that the Mad Man was pretty much of a commom comic character back then (posted about this on the other Mad Men thread, but) TMC recently aired The Hucksters, from the late 40s (! best seller, forget who wrote it) Clark Gable perfectly cast, as adrift, overqualified in a way as Rhett Butler, and comes striding back into the game because he needs the dough, and can't do anything else, he thinks--and lesser hucksters are cunning enough to realize this. Lots of movies based on best sellers, like The Man In The Grey Flannel Suit, and other movies, often with Jack Lemmon--plus TV family entertainment variety show sketches, The Twilight Zone, cop shows, etc (and Feiffer in Voice, others in Playboy, New Yorker, Mad etc used these water cooler buttoned-down hipsters)Be interesting to see how this show's characters self-consiousness about their image in society figures in; seems to be a factor in some of Tony Soprano's success, the way he observes, in conversations with his consigliere and shrink. Betty's adultery by proxy: much more startling than her direct hit, and moving past Carmela Soprano; plus the thing with her father ("He used to fine us for small talk," she proudly reminds her brother) different turns in the face-to-face with the mother of that poor kid who was hung up on her--she's as dynamic as Don and Peggy.(as with Sopranos, the women try to make a road within the road, necessarily--all roads shown in both series are across history, personal and group and every other kind)

Though I did finish the first ep of the second series and think "not a high point, that" tbh

Agree completely, but I don't expect every episode to be a high point at all. Hell, if all it's done is set the scene for high points to come, I'm happy.

I thought it took a few episodes for the second season to get going, but I still enjoyed it.

don't read Dow's paragraph if you don't want season 2 spoilers, btw

saved by laziness

Saved by lack of paragraphing.

oops sorry, didn't know you guys hadn't gotten that ep yet (but the only possible spoiler is toward the end)(oh yeah there's another but it's down there too)

oh yeah I guess there might be several in there, very eventually (good thing my chunkiness turned some of you away)

There's two Mad Men threads - this one is for the Brits. We're only one episode into season 2.

Uh-oh! Bye.

Pete's initial reaction to his dad's death was so beautifully observed.

Yeh, that was kinda fantastic all round, that ep.

I quite want Tracer to watch that one and see if he still thinks it's shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_1

Interesting that they're using actual real-life events. So last night's episode was March 1962.

Also, I loved the face-off between Joan and Kinsey.

Weiner on last night's:

The second episode to me is about... how you should react to anything and what you were told you should do, and I think the word "should" is used probably like a hundred times in that script. To me, we're always torn between the way we are supposed to be feeling and what we actually feel. You know, I can say, just as being a father four times, you know, that when you take that first baby home from the hospital and -- at least for me, maybe I'm a monster I don't know -- the experience of looking at a newborn for a Dad can often be a very strange experience. It's like you're not breastfeeding, you're not doing any of these things. So you should feel something and yet you don't always feel that, and it takes time. At least it did for me. That is sort of what the tension is for me in that, and it's for Pete. It's for Don. It's for Duck. It's for Roger in that episode, for Peggy. That's where that episode lives emotionally for me.

From here

Someone needs to do an animated gif of Jimmy the comedian biting on his fist.

Jimmy was a wonderfully vile creation. Don't like that Bobbie much either - stay away from her Don.

I cracked up at Pete in his white jersey.

Another terrific episode.

Variously I enjoyed: Peggy's sister's confession. Don's daughter preparing the drinks (and Don's resultant plastered state), and her whisky sippin' in the office. The crackling intensity when Don shoved Betty. Sterling's dalliance. Most of all, the line-up shot just before Duck gave them the news about his pal at AA.

The scene with Don and Peggy at the hospital was killer.

I don't know if my brain has been addled by trying to remember which cylon is which in BSG, but there's something very satisfying about the relative lack of "complexity" in Mad Men; I don't mean that it's not sophisticated or lacks depth, but the makers (unlike many other shows) aren't trying to look clever by shoehorning in dozens of characters and plot lines. Instead they're letting the core cast and relevant supporting people really get under the skin of their roles, and it also never feels as though they don't know where they are taking things.

Regardless of this rambling, last night was brilliant again. There's nothing on TV that I am now enjoying more.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f26c4046b0/lex-luthor-bailout-with-jon-hamm

Some lovely lovely moments this episode - Betty's admirer running a mile the minute her kids show up, Pete trying and failing to engage Peggy as a human being, Kinsey's pitch ("Marilyn's a Joan, not the other way round..."), the whole Duck storyline...

The use of an obviously anachronistic song at the start was quite startling, have they done that before?

What do people make of the ending? I guess I'm not use to things being quite so oblique in MM world.

(ie the ending of that episode, natch, just in case anyone's wondering what the fuck I'm on about.)

I think Sally's assertion that she wouldn't say anything reminded Don of telling Bobbie to do the same, stirring up all the self-disgust the encounter raised in him.

I'm not so sure it's that simple: I mean, Don's shown little sign of ever succumbing to feelings of self-disgust before, has he? Despite, y'know, an awful lot of reasons and occasions on which to do so.

It was the sinister droning noise that threw me; I thought that was going to presage some kind of war flashback. I can only assume we're meant to think there's been a gradual eroding of his sense of self throughout the episode (or, rather, a shift in self-perspective): his family and friends still believe he's a war hero when he knows he isn't; Bobbie and her friends believe he's some kind of sexual superhero when he wants to be a loyal family man but knows he isn't ... and then there was the whole scene with Duck, which again was overlaid with overt military metaphor. I can only assume he's heading for some kind of breakdown (again?) ... I guess I could go and read some spoilers, but I won't.

The key thing, I guess, is that war/fighting/the military were alluded to so many times in so many different ways that I was kinda thrown when the ending didn't overtly go there. Hey ho.

He's always (largely successfully) trying to hold back a raging sea of self-disgust. I read that moment in the bathroom as one of the times when his barriers come perilously close to breaking.

Yes, I think that's it. In which case we've got, what, half a series left to watch the waves crash up and then ... the deluge :)

Love this show.

Anyway, I can't believe it's taken me this long to figure out who Pete reminds me of. Obvious really:

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/7187/7187.jpg

Duck's abandonment of poor Chauncey was a real Y U BRAKE HART moment round here - the whole update of Duck's personal situation was wonderfully done.

Re the sinister humming noise, it surely IS a presage to some kind of mental and / or physical collapse (for all the reasons grimly mentions above). Was it the first episode where the doc told him to cut back on the high-living and cigs? It seems like that may be coming home to roost.

Duck's abandonment of poor Chauncey was a real Y U BRAKE HART moment round here - the whole update of Duck's personal situation was wonderfully done

I still get more upset over that than any reasonable person should. But what kind of bastard does that, honestly.

Tonight's was su-fucking-perb.

Yes, it was. Jimmy/Betty/Don, Joan, Salvatore's wife, all brilliant. I fucking love this show.

Aye to that. The 5 UK ILXors that seem to be watching this are probably a fair reflection of its popularity over here though, sadly.

The way Jimmy stuck it to both Betty and Don was horrible to watch. Also suspect that Joan will be preparing a humongous smackdown for Jane. Old man Cooper's scene with Harry and his Rothko also v.v. good.

..as was leaving all the picnic litter behind.

Great Salvatore scenes as well. I like how he genuinely seems very fond of his wife, despite the marriage being a total sham obviously.

Aye to that. The 5 UK ILXors that seem to be watching this are probably a fair reflection of its popularity over here though, sadly.

If the rest of ILX is anything like me, we've watched them all via Bittorrent already! Great show - why wait?

Why wait? I enjoy having one good hour of TV from 10 til 11 on a Tuesday night to look forward to. It's part of the appeal to me.

It's nice to do these things the old fashioned way sometimes.

Primary reason: I watch every other American import that I like using torrents etc already, and wanted to have at least one thing where my wife and I can sit down and watch a show together on the telly as it's shown. Old-fashioned, I guess. Also, the week-on-week anticipation is sometimes a lot more fun than just watching a season over a weekend via downloads.

Secondary reason: Mad Men is so lovely to look at that I'd much rather watch it with broadcast standard picture on my plasma than avi. quality on the PC.

x-posts: Ha! seems we're of similar opinions!

Re. your secondary reason - are you watching it in HD? It looks AMAZING. There's absolutely no way on earth I'd want to watch it any other way.

I wish...am too cheap to pay for Sky HD and no cable in my 'hood so it's Freeview all teh way, which still looks pretty good. Not as good as the blu-ray of season 1, mind you...

720p x264 AVI, played via a laptop on our TV via VGA cable is at least on a Par with Freeview quality, and in some cases far better.

Well, different strokes I guess. As with season 1, will buy the blu-ray for repeat viewing pleasure once have watched whole of S2. Main reason for week on week is still as above, it's nice to have something to look forward to in the morass of rubbish on the telly.

Line of the year: "Turns out I was right, there is only one book about Moby Dick"

P.S. Wow, amazing etc.

P.P.S. What a performance from Christina Hendricks this episode.

Yes, she was fantastic. Last night was the first time we've met her fiancé, right? What a chump. Super tense showdown between Don and Betty, it strikes me that January Jones is very talented as well - her meltdown scenes are always great to watch.

Seconded, thirded, whatever: absolutely fantastic. I could start talking about it but I wouldn't stop :/

That was staggering. Holy shit, what an awesome piece of television.

Yep. Not quite as transcendently brilliant as last week, but pretty close.

I'm out of the country for the next three weeks so I've decided to cheat and am torrenting the last three episodes. I'll probably pop in with my thoughts after the finale's been broadcast.

chap, you have betrayed the whole ethos of the "Mad Men on the BBC" thread. Oh hang on, you started it...

Not much to weigh in with on last night's except to say that I cannot think of anything I have viewed (Sopranos and SFU included) that has *ever* maintained this level of sheer, blissful, televisual joy on a sustained basis throughout a series. Blazing emosity over D and B's fleeting, floorbound reunion though. Damn.

Ha, now I'm one episode ahead of everyone and armed with spoilers. Turns out Roger's a Cylon!

I have finally caught up with this thread, which I've been avoiding up to now, in that the most recent episode I torrented was the most recent shown on the BBC. I echo what most of the defenders have been saying upthread - even taken just as a snapshot of the changing role of women in society it's interesting.

Also all the actors are really, really good at tiny gestures that you almost don't notice. I didn't realise how good the actor playing Don was until we saw the same actor play him as an inexperienced and nervous youth. He looked totally different, but the only noticeable physical difference was his hairstyle.

Also loved, loved, loved the scene with Kinsey on the bus going South - "the consumer has no colour". Lol.

I am getting invited to a lot of parties because I look like Pete. Good job all round.

Season's end doesn't disappoint. All I'm saying.

They find earth then?

i loved the first series but had trouble with the second one. got as far as ep 3 with all that horseriding stuff which felt really misplaced.

You picked a really weird reason to stop watching - the horseriding stuff isn't even a major plot strand. Well, not yet that I can see.

what do you mean by misplaced also?

horseriding stuff gets really major when time travel comes up and it turns out that when don travels back in time he appears as a horse

don is then misplaced

I think Don is actually Vincent.

it threw me a bit, suddenly she's off horseriding and getting chatted up by some poncey toff who we know nothing about - it just felt like i'd missed something, important strand or not. oh well... i think the real reason i stopped watching is cos i couldn't find the torrent for ep 4 (yeah, i know), but the second series did feel a little less immediate than the first. i'll pick up where i left off soon. i should really start watching the Wire as well, and continuing with Breaking Bad would be nice too - so many good US shows, not enough time.

imo season 2 is way better than season 1

I watched season 2 immediately after finishing downloaded episodes of season 1, and felt that it was a bit of a letdown at the time.

Looking back now, I think I prefer season 2 ever so slightly. Fuck I love this show.

Duck's "...and creative report to me" line last night was priceless, the sneaky fucker.

i don't think of em as separate series, more like chapters in a novel, maaaaan. but for realies, this has been an incredibly surefooted show.

This programme. Oh gosh.

Poor, poor Salvatore :-(

With chap on his travels it falls to me to revive the thread this week - I keep thinking every episode is the best of the season but last night was a true contender, esp with the Mrs Draper backstory fleshed out.

Any word on whether the BBC have picked up season 3 yet? If they have, and insist on waiting 9 months after it airs in the US to show it again, I will be sore tempted to torrent it.

Yes, last night's was eye-opening, jaw-dropping and quite unbearably poignant at points. The brief sketching-in of Bert Cooper was so deftly handled: not an unnecessary scene, shot or word, yet the sense of loss in that pan back from the desk after the partners' meeting ...

I knew what happened to Joan thanks to an accidental spoiler elsewhere, but it was still shocking.

And the final scene ... actually, they could have ended the entire fucking series there and it would have been perfect. Next week's, I feel, will be astounding ... Mrs Fiendish knows what happens but has promised not to tell me.

Once this has finished, my plan is to try to catch up with The Wire (I'm only up to the end of S2) but the idea of torrenting the fuck out of Mad Men S3 is sorely tempting too :)

s3 hasnt started yet

Oh well: that makes life a lot easier, then.

Yeah, S3 starts this Summer in US from what I understand. Surely if Sky One can show Battlestar a few days after it airs in America the BBC could do the same with Mad Men? Because, srsly, I've dug this season so much that I don't think I can wait for months and months again. The idiotic scheduling of any decent imports by all the main UK channels doesn't fill me with hope though.

The brief sketching-in of Bert Cooper was so deftly handled
OTM, his in-house waiter-service luncheon with sis' was glorious. Peggy's office snaffle was ace as well, her solo celebration drink was so cute.

So I'm totally jumping ship this season and joining the torrent crew. No way am I waiting for the whims of the Beeb.

Traitor!

I know, I feel the guilt acutely. I just need my fix man!

http://www.amctv.com/originals/madmen/whichmadman

Turns out I'm Roger Sterling. Result!

I'm Betty :/

I am Betty too :(

Don Draper here.

i'm duck phillips. this is not v accurate

apparently after the reading from meditations in an emergency at the end of episode one frank o'hara ended up in the top 50 sales on amazon! that's kind of amazing

I'm Pete Campbell.

Pete Campbell! Ugh.

Just coming to the end of Season 2, this programme is so unbelievably amazing, I can't actually believe TV can be this good. I loved the Wire but this gets me in a different place, possibly the heart.

Did anyone else think Don going off to Palm Springs with that weird Joy character was meant to hint at some sort of Mark Anthony/Cleopatra thing. They had all this kitschy Egyptian music playing and it just all seemed to fit in that way.

I recommend staying away from the other mad men thread if you don't want the show ruined btw

Yep, total clusterfuck. I think it's karma for me abandoning my compatriots.

thanks for the tip-off

x-post - yeah, the other thread has been comprehensively shafted.

shamefacedly I also downloaded this, only to discover that the only divx that's doing the rounds won't play on my dvd player (seems the same for my xbox owning chums, must be some weird codec thing). So I had to tortuously convert it to a dvd, delaying the viewing by a couple of hours. The waiting made it even sweeter though - great to have it back.

Without giving anything away, I was surprised by the lightness of tone and playfulness of this episode.

Unfortunately I can't seem to stop reading the AMC thread.

this revive got me curious enough to actually want to watch this, and as I said, I normally can't deal with television

When is new season on BBC?

I know right? you should watch, I v seldom bother with any of these shows (tho getting into them more lately) but once you get on a roll of Mad Men it's just huge swirl of diff things to think about, so good.

When is new season on BBC?

Like fucking November or something. Seriously, get in on the copyright theft action.

hah i like the sound of having diff things to think about.

The other thread has calmed down a bit and is actually quite good now.

When is new season on BBC?

There was a six month gap between the US and the UK for the first two seasons, so Feb next year as usual.

I'm not going anywhere near the other thread. I'm gonna sit it out 'till 2010.

You're a far better man than I.

Unsettling lack of an s3e2 torrent. Until now I've always found major US shows are up by 6am GMT the morning following the US broadcast without fail.

lolz I am Joan Holloway

I can't find ep 2 anywhere either. Why would that be?

me neither...enjoyed ep 1.

Still no sign. This is very odd.

There was one added to mininova half an hour ago, no idea if it's real though.

Yeah--hunting round the place reveals lots of people desperately waiting. It would be the perfect fake torrent at the moment.

I'm dling one from mininova now, I'll let you know how it is this afternoon.

Fake.

not up on http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/internet/mad_men/ usu. means there's no torrent yet

A few have popped up on Isohunt now but dunno if they're real or not.

you can always get the episodes on rapidshare

Hey, got it off rs in under four minutes! Thanks groove, would never have thought of that.

Episode 2 is all over Mininova, guys. I watched a copy with 3200+ seeds not moments ago.

Is there a 720p version out yet?

now you're just being greedy

It doesn't look the same in SD, got it now though so a happy bunny.

It hit M1ninova yesterday morning, more than 24 hours later than usual. I guess P1rate Bay being down affected things somehow.

I think the groups were just being a it lazy. It didn't hit the private trackers until yesterday either.

a *bit*

is this shown every two weeks or something?

nope. it's every sunday - there's 2 episodes so far this season

right so the newest one is this coming sunday?

yep

excellent!

Revive for Series 3!

Roger Sterling blackface!

Joan and her accordion!

why did they do that flashback at the start of last weeks episode? didnt seem to add anything to the programme at all.

does anyone know where i can view the first 2 eps of this series? i missed them.

oops, it wasnt a flashback, i meant flashforward.

Excellent episode last night - a strong Betty episode, with hardly any of the regulars, except Pete and a Joan cameo, and not a single scene set inside Sterling-Cooper. Joan usually gets all the attention, but Bets was great, loved her little "we won, we won" jig, but her la dolce vita makeover was something else.

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/betty-don-draper-italy.jpg

That whole scene on the piazza was wonderful.

Have just finished watching S3 (on DVD) - the final episode was possibly the best yet, I already had some idea of what the final outcome would be from the S4 thread title but the way they got there was still thrilling.

Was then surprised and delighted to read that it's only weeks until S4 starts on BBC4!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/sep/19/jon-hamm-mad-men-don-draper

what a terrible article. "good looks and fame always impress me". isnt this meant to be the observer?

liking the new series though, and how all the characters, don esp, seems much less composed than ever before. getting more interesting.

not sure the obs would be ok with a similarly 'i got a boner' approach to interviewing from a man

that mags readership is prob 85% women tho (or perceived to be, ditto the guardian's saturday magazine)

but that interview is one step away from talking about how she went home and gave herself a seeing to while drinking from his leftover coffee cup

but that interview is one step away from talking about how she went home and gave herself a seeing to while drinking from his leftover coffee cup

It isn't really, although I'm stoked for talking about whether objectification of the sexes is a level playing field once again. It's an interesting enough read once Jon Hamm starts talking but the breathless first person stuff at the start is appalling writing.

i dunno how you subs would have left it (maybe thats just how he talks and so thats how it should have been left?), but his quotes had too many exclamation marks.

that... didn't bother me

actually, the piece reads a lot better if you avoid the start.

Polly V3rnon has a schtick of being very impressed/leg-humpy around thinking women's crumpet types, which in no way makes things level for women because the man is elevated to a pedestal rather than being, say, the female object of a circle-jerk who can be discarded at any time.

Did anyone have to actually read the thing to become aware of this? Because she got her bona fides in this department, writing shitty articles about how a diet of cocktails and canapés is 'accidentally Atkins' or whatever. My school friend is a PR who deals with Obs mag types a lot and says she treats other women in a dismissive manner unless they're important, but doesn't seem to wheat-and-chaff men in quite the same way.

He seems like a nice guy.

he does. don't like reading about actors tbh though. doesn't really matter what they're like. like, elisabeth moss is a scientologist iirc.

I like reading about actors but they have to be interesting people with some kind of intellectual life; the world is a better place because Peter O'Toole still does interviews, for example.

The only time I have even approached that kind of WHOA in my own work, it was 1995 and I'd had three hours of coffee with Ewan McGregor at the height of his fanciability, just before Trainspotting came out. It's not the kind of thing you write when you're forty, unless you're trying way too hard to be the new Mariella Frostrup.

Just started watching season 1 of this properly, after having caught the debut broadcast of the first episode way back when but somehow never following up on it. It's pretty damn awesome. We're about 5 epsiodes in now. Just seen the episode where Betty shoots at the pigeons...

Halfway through s3.

Craft, good acting and staging is wonderful but kinda sits here, now watching for the asides -- the boss' Ayn Rand fixation, Joan playing the accordion as the most bizarre but effective way to show how wives or gfs are used to impress other men on the way up in the career ladder -- is what keeps me watching.