Is there anything the Labour Party can do to win the next election?

I think they're fucked. But they could turn that to their advantage - they're going down now, so why not try some left-wing policies in the time they have left? I'm thinking bringing back the 10p band coupled with a 50p band for very high earners. They'll lose the south in the next election, but short of Cameron, Osbourne, and Boris found snorting coke off a woman's body, they're going to do that anyway. And perhaps not even then.

Plus: there has never been a better time to change First Past The Post. The Tories may cry bloody murder over it, but if Scotland does become independent, Labour are going to need some sort of strategy to try and overcome the Conservative advantage in England, and PR might just help...

They need better PR, sure.

Sit tight. Two years to go. Fuck a local election.

Firstly, I say get rid of Brown

1) who'd take his place?
2) it's the prime minister we're talking about -- this isn't like the tories changing leader every five minutes until they got someone who could vaguely keep them in line.
3) it's not as if the dude who came before him was exactly mr popularity by the end, is it?

i'd say that's the worst thing they could do. if they want to survive, they keep brown, keep quiet about how they don't like him, and try to act like a party rather than a bunch of squabbling wanks.

i'm in a weird position here. this time last year, i couldn't wait to get labour out of government in scotland. 12 months on, i'm still delighted about that: sure, the SNP have been far from perfect but even on the most basic level -- ie actually being positive about scotland -- they're a glorious change. (i do fear they're beginning to discover there's a big cash gap between talk and action, but ... we'll see.)

problem is, as i said on the mayoral thread: in scotland in 2007, the SNP were labour's natural successors. in wales in 2008, it seems to be the lib dems. but in england, it's the fucking tories.

which puts me in a dilemma. on the one hand, as tom and i have noted on the other thread: a tory england is the best advert possible for scottish independence, which is something i'm not exactly zealous about but think -- on balance -- is the best possible way forward (albeit within the context of a loosely federal UK).

but: i'm english. i was born in the south and brought up in the north-west. right now, we're still one big unhappy UK. and i just cannot countenance the idea of those fucking tory cunts getting back into power in any way, shape or form, even if it might help bring about a better future for scotland in the long run.

gah. i'm off to the gym to take out some of this frustration.

No, there's next to nothing they can do bar something popping up that utterly discredits Cameron. Maybe banking on a hung Parliament and wooing the LibDems as much as possible, but I think we're past that point now.

Who would they replace Brown with? And why would anyone take seriously a party that let him into power unopposed and then axed him as soon as the going got tough?

Labour not getting any more unpopular kind of hinges on the economy not getting any worse, as well.

At this stage in the Tories' third term (May 1990) Kinnock's Labour absolutely thrashed Thatcher's Conservatives in the local elections (equivalent national vote of Lab 44%, Con 33%, LD 17%). The Tories were introducing unpopular new ideas (e.g. poll tax) and losing their image for control over their traditional strengths: running the economy (house prices were already crashing and the economy was slipping into recession) and law and order (huge poll tax riots and Strangeways prison out of control). Even Middle England had had enough and decided it was time for a change. But two years later they somehow won the general election. So, it's not impossible...

...but I really can't see it happening. The Tories were able to meet that feeling of 'time for a change' by ditching Thatcher. Blair has already gone and Brown's honeymoon was very shortlived. There isn't anyone else left to take over.

The T's went through leader after leader, trying to find someone 'nice' that the GenPub can like.

Funnily enough, the T's generally don't like Cameron.

I don't really think IDS or Michael Howard were attempts by the Tories to find someone 'nice' that the general public would like.

Well, an independent Scotland will mean we'll be stuck with the tories for ever, so thanks but no thanks.

And as for Brown, the man is useless. He's no good as leader. he doesn't fuckin' lead! I say we cut our losses and dump him. It really doesn't matter who you have to replace him. Look at Cameron, he's a fucking empty vessel. Just get some half good looking youngster in to spout inanities and keep the masses happy. Give 'em some flannel about immigration and crime. It clearly doensn't matter if it makes sense or not. People don't want to hear complicated theories about Britishness or citizenship or the balance of trade they just want someone who can string a couple of soundbites and a crappy zing together.

Why would the voters think better of a party that hangs on to their biggest liability. Hasn't anyone seen The Apprentice?

Dude, people hate the party now, not just the leadership. Putting a pretty boy out front isn't going to make much difference.

IDS and Howard were both cases of "someone has to do it"

Howard wasn't even trying to wih the election last time.

Also, I don't believe for one second Cameron is just "an empty fucking vessel" - Labour were guilty of underestimating him for much of last year and it blew up in their faces.

Well, an independent Scotland will mean we'll be stuck with the tories for ever, so thanks but no thanks.

Not up to you, is it?

Funnily enough, the T's generally don't like Cameron

But they don't care because they want power and think that once he's in he'll revert to the Right. Which he probably will.

Dude, people hate the party now, not just the leadership. Putting a pretty boy out front isn't going to make much difference

So, why stick with him?

Also, I don't believe for one second Cameron is just "an empty fucking vessel"

What are his policies then?

He's got plenty of policies but he's not about to tell anyone about them, if he doesn't have to

Labour have absolutely no chance of winning the 2010 election. The only strategy they could have employed would have been to call a June 2007 election - I have absolutely no idea why they did not do this

I wondered how long it would be before Laxalt came along and told us what WE SHOULD HAVE DONE.

Got a labour party membership card have we?

'we'?

Jol out.

OK now that laxalt has spoken I am confident Labour will win the next election

They would have won in November 2007 as well.

November they would have won also yes. Wasn't consensus on here that he fluffed in not calling last autumn?

Tom D it is good you are feeling confident. Perhaps a trip to the bookies might be in order

Any more tips?

Look's bad but I don't think it's unsalvageable. Though a lot will depend on external factors, most importantly how the economy copes in the next couple of years. If they can sort out the Northern Rock problem before the next election that would be a major filip to their reputation.

The most important thing is that Brown should be seen to be doing something, the charges are that he's a ditherer and ducks the issues are corrosive. Elector's may forgive a government going through a bad patch, they won't forgive a leader who stands back and (is seen) to do nothing about it.

summary of "honeymoon period/feelgood factor"

When you are ahead in the polls, things look nice.

But, call an election like NOW based on those figures, and the honeymoon/feelgood VANISHES!

This is why no-one's been dumb enough to try it.

So, what to do? Get Ant and Dec to take over as partyleader.

Not be crap?

Yes, only if Labor could replace Brown with someone slightly less terrible but I wouldn't know where to find him or her.

Oh well, enjoy your future New Modern Tory nightmare everyone. Except for our viewers in Scotland.

Ant and Dec = tainted by corruption scandals

At the moment I can't see the next labour leader being anything but a milliband and I can't see one winning much either.

The problem is there is a growing awareness that the current economic problems -- which cannot be salvaged before a 2010 election (and are arguably being made worse by the actions of the last 6 months), are largely of Browns own making (yes other countries followed similar paths and are also in similar positions).

The spin is to put the blame for current economic situation on 'american subprime' which Brown raises constantly in order to deflect blame. His worst problem though is the fact that he is not good at covering this up, is not good at concealing it, he looks like a condemned man - and has done since day one. Public never tends to vote for politicians once they enter that phase

To be elected is not an impossibility I will admit - as Major showed in 92. Did Major have the same aura of incompetence though?

(xp*2) OK, let them run for Mayor next time up then..

They would have won in November 2007 as well.

-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:40 (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

In the middle of the Northern Rock crisis?

Miliband: Is that supposed to be a mustache?

he looks like a condemned man - and has done since day one

No he didn't

Did Major have the same aura of incompetence though?

Are you kidding here?

At the moment I can't see the next labour leader being anything but a milliband and I can't see one winning much either.

-- Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:58 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

You're forgetting the uber-popular and charming Ed Balls.

Haha October then. I have no idea what would have happened if Northern Rock had occurred in the middle of an election campaign. Things never seem to kick off in election campaigns usually.

One or two senior government figures will suddenly start saying as little as possible in order to drop off the radar and avoid being tainted by this govt's last couple of years. Anyone heard anything from Jack Straw lately?

One or two senior government figures will suddenly start saying as little as possible in order to drop off the radar and avoid being tainted by this govt's last couple of years.

-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:03 (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

I was thinking _exactly_ the same thing about Alan Johnson this morning. He should be next PM, he looks like he should have managed Man City in the 70s.

He might still manage Man City

SOME of the problems are of Brown's own making, and others aren't. The root of the problem is American subprime - without that the credit crunch wouldn't have occurred. The problem is that Brown has encouraged the conditions under which Britain is particularly vulnerable to a tightening of the credit market.

Before anyone says anything, I do not know what I would have done differently at the time, and I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing. This is why, happily, I am not Chancellor of the Exchequer.

They would have won in November 2007 as well.

-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:40 (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

In the middle of the Northern Rock crisis?

Was last month they had a chance of winning. Though the non-economic bad news was coming thick and fast then (the hospital bug stuff and that harman business seem a long time ago now). public still believed northern rock was isolated incident and could be contained

Are you kidding here?

About Major? No. Wasn't sure if his aura of incompetence was quite as bad as Browns or not - was genuine question

This govt has a long long way to go before it reaches the aura of incompetence that Major achieved. Thing with Major is, the media knew he was a dead duck and sensing blood were pretty much relentless in their attack. The same thing could now happen to Brown, and Cameron's policies might not be put under the scrutiny they deserve.

The root of the problem is American subprime - without that the credit crunch wouldn't have occurred

Don't believe this to be true. It merely happened in america first.

Am talking about Major 90-92 here though, the Major that managed to win an election!

This is the man to save Labour: John McDonnell

Well, unless it happened in Britain first, it would still be outside Brown's jurisdiction?

(xpost - I'm so disappointed that didn't say 'Harry Redknapp')

major's aura of incompetence began with black wednesday -- ie several months after april 1992 election, tom

wrt leader-changing: labour doesn't actually have the unite-the-two-wings problem that meant the tories had to go through three further self-evident duds to find an empty vessel -- however this is still a massive punt that doesn't address deeper problems within the party since its blair-is-all reshaping

damage to brown's alleged deep prudent subtle grasp of economics = running the UK economy as if all was well in the world economy, and not keeping some trick in reserve for subprime problem even when it was but the size of a small child's fist far off on the otherwise blemishless horizon -- it's ture that next to no one (apart from a handful of ecnomo-bear cassandras) was saying VERY BAD STUFF AHEAD, so brown isn't alone for not knowing better, but all this means is he gets to wear an "as clueless as the rest of em" badge, which in this context is no help

This is the man to save Labour: John Ramsay McDonnell

fixed

I'm not sure how he managed to get the prudent tag in the first place given the huge increases in debt and the huge increases in money supply that occured during his tenure

Urgently required: 1 Labour-saving device

Ask Tony Blair if he wants his old job back.

Brown was prudently counter cyclical for the first half of his tenure, then the wheels fell of that plan.

One or two senior government figures will suddenly start saying as little as possible in order to drop off the radar and avoid being tainted by this govt's last couple of years. Anyone heard anything from Jack Straw lately?

-- Matt DC, Friday, May 2, 2008

seems to be 3rd favourite behind Cameron and Osbourne to be next PM

http://www.oddschecker.com/specials/politics-and-election/uk-cabinet-specials/next-prime-minister

"huge increases in debt" <--- a. no one considered qualified to comment considered this a problem, b. it wasn't g.brown's personal debt it's all those chavs (<--- taxicab thinking not mine)

prudent = nothing much went pearshaped
qualified to comment = economic and financial commentary in general is indicted by subprime (which is a a bit of a reflex marker anyway for colossal scale of debt in key western economies at all levels)

The prudence tag came from a first term "hey look Britain we are not going to lavish money on everything in the first five minutes and then realise there's nothing in the cash register" and he got attacked by the left for sticking to Tory spending plans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

Also, Brown actually paid off a big chunk of national debt prior to the 2001 election which won the continued support of the Sun. Obviously he borrowed more since, but it's worth noting.

I worry about the cuts in spending that will arise from a Tory government plus failing economy. I suspect this is the nasty stuff Cameron is holding over until after the election.

well debt and money supply are the same thing anyway so the reiteration wasn't required. debt can be written off as personal problems I guess - but call it what it really is - money supply - and the fault comes back to the administration

oh god i just realised: three phrases that will now never be off pundit lips

i: stalking horse
ii: throw his/her hat in the ring
iii: last chance fucking saloon

you forgot

GREEN SHOOTS OF RECOVERY

ad nauseum for next 5 years

http://www.mediastorehouse.com/image/STALKING-HORSE_602060.jpg?mediatype=2&mediaid=602060&fitfill=fit&pvw=676

iii: last chance fucking saloon

Not sure about this one. Unless it's Jeremy Vine: Live and Uncensored.

haha when i looked up black wednesday -- via the medium of norman "just been fisted" lamont's wiki -- it says that's one of the phrases he most regrets using (motto of april 1992 election): that and singing in the bath (or telling the world he had done so)

Stalking horses are v. unlikely under current Labour party rules, Brown would have to actually call a leadership election.

oh god i just realised: three phrases that will now never be off pundit lips

i: stalking horse
ii: throw his/her hat in the ring
iii: last chance fucking saloon

LAME DUCK

or the PLP would have to kneecap him xpost

http://marcio.net/photos/cd0009/echo_park-one_legged_duck-0797.jpg

That would make any duck lame

That is the cutest thing ever.

OK now that laxalt has spoken I am confident Labour will win the next election

ILX's very own mystic Mogg!

Had the Tories called a snap GE after the bounce they received post-Thatcher resignation/Major election, they may well have won. I do recall in mid-1990 - the absolute depths of Thatcher's unpopularity - there were polls suggesting Lab's huge lead would be wiped out by a change of Tory leader (Heseltine was the fave then, of course). They hung on for two years and, fortunately for them, Kinnock's popularity curved gently up, then down.

Labour's late '07/early '08 is the Tories' late '92...

"The term stalking horse originally derived from the practice of hunting, particularly of wildfowl. Hunters noticed that many birds would flee immediately on the approach of humans, but would tolerate the close presence of animals such as horses and cattle.

"Hunters would therefore slowly approach their quarry by walking alongside their horses, keeping their upper bodies out of sight until the flock was within firing range. Animals trained for this purpose were called stalking horses. Sometimes "fake" or pantomime horse-style outfits would be used."

I wouldn't mind so much if it actually involved ppl IN pantomime horse-style outfits sidling up to an actual wild duck, wild or otherwise.

There is something so weirdly dissociated about the public announcement of stalking-horsism: ok wildfowl are a bit dim when it comes to the relationship of humans with guns and horses, fair enough THEY ARE BIRDS AND THEY HAVE TINY BRAINS, but actual real competent or even quite incompetent politicians are reading that someone has loudly announced their intention to get the hunter up close by means of a ruse

bah

*goes and has goat got*

birds obviously not that brainy as they cannot count legs; 4 safe, 6 danger

I wouldn't mind so much if it actually involved ppl IN pantomime horse-style outfits sidling up to an actual wild duck, wild or otherwise

what am i saying jeremy vine has already started dressing up hasn't he

ppl IN pantomime horse-style outfits sidling up to an actual wild duck, wild or otherwise

Design department on Newsnight working on this as we speak

Could they run ads with the slogan "Do you remember the last Tory government?", with a montage of images of Major, Thatcher, that guy who broke the pound, Michael Howard, and then David Cameron.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/images/new_labour_new_danger_1.gif

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_myerson/2008/05/we_are_really_in_trouble.html

Yougov, who had the results of the London Mayoral elections spot on (much closer than any other pollers), have just issued their latest poll figures:

CON 49%
LAB 23%
LD 17%

In an general election, that would mean the Tories elected with a majority of 288 seats.

I know people are annoyed with Labour at the moment... but are 1 in every 2 people that vote at the next election really going to vote Tory? I thought Britain had moved on.

On the topic of replacing Gordon Brown - even if they did the party did want rid of him, no serious contender (e.g. (i.e.?) Milliband) is going to blow their potential future career by taking office for a couple of years and then leading Labour to a horrible defeat in 2009. Better off taking over after the next election and rebuilding in opposition.

To be honest... the most positive outcome I can realistically imagine happening is a small Tory majority after 2009 election, followed by Labour victory in 2013/4.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_77g3DtXDJXE/SCGz1ZMVjAI/AAAAAAAAB3o/cQwAh-gdfzk/s320/waxworks.JPG

Melt him down and make a Boris Johnson.

Then Boris can leave the waxwork in his office and fuck off on holiday for the rest of his term.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7395545.stm

Here's a plan for Labour to win the next election. They should:

- use the rest of this year to get all their fiascos, feuds and buried bodies out in the open
- at the same time take a scattergun approach and bring in lots of new initiatives which will be unpopular in the short-term but which have a chance of paying off in late 2009/2010 (no idea what these might be, but bear with me)
- it will become obvious fairly quickly that half of these new initiatives are going to be disastrous. Spend the first half of next year pinning them firmly on Brown
- but remember to change the mood music so that the story in 2009 is not about Labour feuding, but about a government trying to cope with a difficult situation, it's just that Brown can't do this. Associate the successful initiatives with a handful of guys like Miliband, Johnson and so on
- at the same time, these guys prepare quietly for a leadership challenge in late 2009, ideally as a straightforward choice between someone likeable and Brown
- DON'T CHOOSE BROWN
- new leader strips out whatever old guard is left from Labour's first term, like Straw and Darling, so that the cabinet looks youngish but still recognisable
- call the general election shortly afterwards
- portray it as a choice between two fresh administrations, one with a bit more experience than the other, and hope for the benefit of the doubt

The only problem with this plan is that it relies on: i) party discipline; ii) the government having at least a few good ideas left in the locker; and iii) Brown agreeing to be the fall guy. So it won't work. Apart from that, it's foolproof.

I wonder if the talk about Field as a possible leader has got to him and he's trying to bring Brown down.

Field's creepy, there's a touch of the Enoch Powells about him

Why doesn't he just defect to the Tories and have done with it?

Cue stock "should have stuck to yodelling" pun of course.

Apparently a lot of the talk in Labour at the moment is of the "self-harm" strategy: try and get everything that can go wrong in the next three years to go wrong in the next six months, place the blame for everything entirely on Brown, then bring in Exciting New Leader. Except the choices there are Balls (no, just no) and Milliband (looks like a Tory).

Galloway to make a triumphant return as Labour party leader, then.

Milliband (looks like a Tory).

In that case, he's perfect... provided he thinks like a Tory too

Dom that's pretty much what Ismael Klata just said

Miliband just seems like a yes-man robot drone to me

ken livingstone for PM obv.

Next election let's just have Leon and Rhydian and vote for whoever cries more.

Galloway to make a triumphant return as Labour party leader, then.

http://images-srv.leonardo.it/progettiweb/nonsolocritiche/blog/1984-movie-bb1.jpg

I'll always vote for Ken Livingstone - as you can tell.

I like David Miliband OK.

I do not at all believe that Ed Balls could possibly be taken seriously as leader or PM. No way, for various reasons. Including: you can't stand for PM and be called 'Balls'. He can only ever be an underling.

The most charitable explanation re. Frank Field's behaviour is that he's doing everything he can to reverse the tax change, I suppose. But I don't care for him. He wasn't very nice back in 1997, as far as I know.

As Brown's tenure now looks as though it may be a short one I'd suggest that Yvette Cooper may be a strong bet to replace him.

Oh, God no

That smarmy git James Purnell is coming up thru the Field

That's true.

Cooper is better-looking.

Which in the end is what it's all about. Apparently.

Surprised the B*P haven't put up Dannii Minogue as a candidate yet.

Too far too the right.

http://www.lunarsociety.org.uk/photos/david_milibandm.jpg

You can't tell me that that isn't a Tory face.

plus is immigrant

xpost

NOT UNTIL WE KNOW ITS A FUCKING MOUSTACHE OR NOT

William Hill still has Browns most likely departure date as 2010 --- marginally ahead of 2009. Can see logic in this. Labour know the next election is a lost cause and getting rid of Brown now won't change that, and any serious contender is better off waiting till after they lose the election

Problem is - still - no credible candidates (the fact that people like Cooper are being mentioned here is surely not good for them)

If Brown - as expected - holds on as long as possible I think thats going to make winning the 2014 election very difficult for Labour no matter who they have as candidate.

Also see that Prescott and C.Blair are lining up to put boot into Brown

Important point in 2014, if 2012 Olympics are big success then the (Tory) government will take the credit for it. If it's a mess than that will be blamed on current administration.

Nah Labour got the blame for the Dome despite the fact that a lot of it was Heseltine's work.

How much of a factor does everyone think the Olympics will actually have?

Also am I right in saying the tories could actually hold off calling as late as 2015?

Feelgood factor innit? If the economy is going well in 2012 it could be encapsulate New Swinging London again or whatever nonsense.

Of course, Euro 96 didn't help Major but that's not such a flagship event.

Then again if the economy's going well then Britain won't unseat Cameron and Osborne anyway.

Yes but 2012 itself is unlikely to be an election year unless things have gone really messed up somewhere down the line? and by even the next year surely the olympics will have been more or less forgotten

as for feelgood factor this might be more prevalent but I think 2012 is prob a bit early for all that swinging london business again

economy may well be doing its 'green shoots of recovery' bit by then but doubt it will be to such an extent that we'll be all swinging london puff pieces in the supplements again

Also when/once the economy does start moving again surely the question that has to be asked is what sector is actually going to be driving it? esp when you look at the big 3 of the 00s

Finance?
Consumer Spending on debt?
Housing/Construction?

Or maybe a return of industry? but what industry?

woah 18% swing 8000 maj

How long as Crewe & Nantwich been Labour for? Am I right in thinking as a Labour seats it survived even the Thatcher landslides during the 80s?

Well it's only been a seat since 1983. Crewe was Labour before that, Nantwich's always been tory.

So, yes.

Next election seat spread average:

Conservative Party: 350
Labour Party: 231
Liberal Democrats: 46

Adults Worldwide Say - Tax the Rich!

Jon Cruddas on British politics in the New Statesmen
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2008/09/labour-social-conservatives

Cruddas gets his second New Statesman OTM Award of the last few months. It's what I've been saying for ages, Cameron has outflanked Labour on both sides by being all "look at the enormous fucking mess you are making" and balancing that by doing the touchy-feely stuff better as well. This should by all rights be relatively easy to argue against but the decade-old policy and communication priorities of New Labour prevent them from doing it.

The left needs to recover its ethical socialism and commitment to equality. It needs the political will to reject the easy option of marketisation and realise ideas for democratising public services and building an accountable, redistributive state. Power needs to be devolved to local government. There has to be a renewed argument for constitutional and electoral reform and the protection and extension of individual civil liberties. The conditions for trade unionism have to be improved and a new internationalism established. Perhaps most of all, and most difficult, the left needs an ecologically sustainable, pro-social political economy capable of generating both wealth and equitable development. The future is for the left to lose.

OK. Seems easy enough, let's do it.

Do Labour really want to win the next election?

http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/10/24/brown-gordon-cp-2961417.jpg

"There's a taste in my mouth, as desperation takes hold"

Jon Cruddas tipped for promotion though. But, yeah, Mandy seems like an insane choice.

So yeah, Brown to lose the election, Cruddas to challenge Miliband and, I dunno, Jack Straw or someone for the leadership?

Johnson/Cruddas is probably the only sensible option right now for a future Labour leader/deputy partnership, with Purnell as, I dunno, shadow home secretary or something.

That arselicker John Hutton moves to Defence, Colin Newman lookalike Geoff Hoon goes to Transport. I hate those two weasels.

Cameron and Osbourne react to Mandy's return...

surprised that osbourne likes mandelson that much

Labour really need to learn from the Tories' mistakes and purge members of this government from the Shadow Cabinet as quickly as possible. Miliband in opposition will just be more of the same from Labour and that's the last thing they need.

Also, the monkey thing. Where did that come from?

"Monkey thing"? Is that a reference to Mandelson being MP for Hartlepool?

I'm talking about various cartoonists that have already started caricaturing Miliband as a monkey, although that seems to have started within the last couple of weeks.

He reminds me of the guy who did the Professor sketches in Vision On (ask your dad etc.).

Mandelson and Hoon back? Come on, this is ridiculous. I guess this is what happens when you only promote yes-men for 10 years - all the new voices get marginalised.

That's presupposing the existence of new voices.

I know, but there has to be some, surely? That's what's so disheartening about the LP at the moment - who could run it better than it is at the moment? And there's nobody of any talent in the wings.

Candidacy only went to yes men in the first place. I doubt there are many inspirational new voices in (Labour) Parliament at all.

PROFESSOR PAT PENDING?

(looks nowt like him, but)

Really they're all just going into politics now as a career option rather than anything to do with conviction. Behave nicely, don't talk out of turn and you might get to be a PPS in 30 years' time laddie. They've got mortgages, student loans and credit cards to pay off so they're not in a position to argue, not that the notion of arguing would ever occur to them.

The ballot box will wipe a lot of them out anyway - Labour could be forced into a callow shadow cabinet with the occasional big hitter.

http://www.its-prof-again.co.uk/

Is there anything in this world that *doesn't* have it's own website?

Sydney Devine.

A callow cabinet?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1545000/images/_1549964_callow150.jpg

With Mandy and Draper back beating the drum for Labour it's full steam ahead to a fourth term!

...for the Tories within the last three decades...

Yeah, but Mandelson has previous experience at the DTI and in that capacity was surprisingly well thought of, both inside and outside the department.

(At least according to my partner, who was receiving a lot of DTI assistance while starting up his biotech business at the time. There was no small amount of dismay at the policy vacuum following PM's resignation, as he was providing strong tactical leadership on "knowledge-based economy" initiatives.)

Mandy spoke well to Paxman on the Econocalypse the other night.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/17/davidcameron-politicalnews

let's hope this economic thingy can do for brown what it has done for obama

I hate David Cameron.

So do I.

Can you vote, in the UK?

I don't think so, but maybe if I'm here a little longer. I hate most the way he's talked of as having some kind of common touch that Brown lacks, yet they never put him in any situations where he might prove this. The one time I saw him speaking to "ordinary people" was on a BBC Newsbeat video where young people asked him questions, and he seemed completely aloof and freakish next to them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/18/davidcameron-conservatives

Holy crap, who saw this coming?

Crikey, this is getting dangerously close to socialism.

We won't be getting Tom Jones or Phil Collins back then.

50 quid on Campbell in car crash/outed as paedo/polonium milkshake before 2009.

Darling, rather.

HAVE YOUR SAY

The economy will go back to the dark days of the 1970s - taxing the rich is such a stupid idea

Matt, Manchester

or "Diamond", as KSilk had him on "Jungle" yesterday.

(xpost)

We are all Joe the Plumber.

Speak for yourself pal. I'm more Joe the Pesci myself.

Not me, I'm Joe le Taxi.

And now I'm Lord the Custos.

Joe the Swash is the new Joe the Plumber.

0.5% increase in NI from 2011

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1095057/Gordon-Brown-denies-February-election-rumours-ministers-claim-recession-worst-ever.html

I still don't think they'd win, but I'd say this is the best chance they've got. However, given that Brown bottled it big time last October, it'd be pretty perverse of him to roll the dice now.

frankly they've got too much on their plate to hold an election right now. i think they'll wait for the green shoots of recovery of early 2010, should there be any.

there's a weird anti-Brown rant that's been posted up on the v large billboard spaces underneath the old railway bridge by the top of Shoreditch High St.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorow/3109564177/

I love the Daily Mail pic of Tessa in prayer:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/bobbysixer/tessa.jpg

"We’ve had it up to here with a government that says we can go on treating people like shit."

Labour's @BarryGardiner breaks down over the cost of living crisis @eiecampaign pic.twitter.com/YqseSSC1HE

— PoliticsJOE (@PoliticsJOE_UK) August 18, 2022

Barry Gardiner MP supports the Enough is Enough campaign.

DJ Martian otm - the prophetic power of systems thinking!

This is the man to save Labour: John McDonnell

― djmartian, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:11 (fourteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Is there anything the Labour Party can do to win the next election? [Started by Ned Trifle II in May 2008, last updated two hours ago by Piedie Gimbel on I Love Everything] 2 new answers
Nope (dir. Jordan Peele) [Started by Ned Raggett in April 2022, last updated two hours ago by Josh in Chicago on I Love Everything] 13 new answers

Bingo

Sadder answer, the plan is to do nothing and rely on winning the battle of apathy in the wasteland of 2024

it's more like "cisterns thinking" with Kieth, that's where he usually hides his flask of single malt

"I know Owen, I like Owen, I'm sorry Owen... I'm not focused on Owen, I'm focused intently on winning the next general election"@Keir_Starmer reacts to being called a "professional political conman" by @OwenJones84.@theJeremyVine | #JeremyVine pic.twitter.com/kuNA15yF1i

— Jeremy Vine On 5 (@JeremyVineOn5) August 31, 2022

"I like Owen"

An odd thing here is that KS puts OJ down by saying he was a "cheerleader" for Labour's 2019 election campaign.

KS, unlike OJ, was literally on the platform for the launch of Labour's 2019 election campaign. (I, unusually, was there!)

just found out that the owner of ex-alpaca Geronimo genuinely made a graphic for today where she called him "The Peoples Alpaca" pic.twitter.com/b7Wteunce0

— Alice Lia Maro (@slimelia) August 31, 2022

next he'll be saying he actually tried to save Geronimo

KS saved geronimo from having to watch the world fall into ghastly ruin

yeah they've probably already started eating his buddies

'We all know what it's like with teenage children and I feel very strongly about this...this argument that children can make decisions without the consent of parents is one I just don't agree with at all' https://t.co/U1y6V1PvVZ pic.twitter.com/UNGy8fQA3C

— j (@jrc1921) November 1, 2022

KS very animated here as he springs into life to make a statement. You can judge the statement for yourself.

There's something wrong with that room and the people in it

starmer at least had previously publicly said the right things on trans rights despite refusing to do anything about duffield & co. but coming out against gillick competence (does he even know he's doing that?) is extraordinarily bleak.

kier starmer take the budd dwyer challenge u coward

I spent my 20s thinking of myself as "lucky" because I was only thrown out for two days after I was outed to my parents as gay. Had it been that I was trans, I would have been lucky to even make it to homelessness because of my stepdad's bigotry. This is the kind of thing that could directly lead to the deaths of trans teenagers.

Keir Starmer has given an interview to Justine Roberts, the founder of parenting and anti trans message board Mumsnet.

Here is everything Keir Starmer said about trans topics to Mumsnet.

1/17

— What The Trans!? (WhatTheTrans.com) (@WhatTheTrans) November 1, 2022

whole lot more bullshit from him here

after all this i'm labor to be whipped to abstain when the tories make their recently announced move to gut existing legal protections for trans people

thinking of all the shitty wretched nights I spent at Boys Brigade football practice and so on, just being miserable and easily targeted by peers, at the insistence of a parent who thought the best thing for me was to suffer that in a pathetic attempt to become more masculine (spoiler: it didn't work, I'm still fabulous) - it was awful, and I didn't even have it that bad at all in comparative terms.

He's an amoral right-wing social conservative and he's very bad at hiding it at the best of times. But he's certainly not going to try too hard to hide it when he's talking to mumsnet. He'll throw anyone under a bus this cunt - especially now he feels like the next GE is going to be winnable.

djmartian at 11:11 2 May 08

This is the man to save Labour: John McDonnell

oops quoted two months ago ha ha still tho

McD get's a lot of shit from the left and he certainly isn't above criticism. But I sure do miss him, especially after seeing that video above.

Despicable, pathetic little man.

read that the mumsnet transphobes weren't appeased by this anyway because Starmer said kids could still socially transition with parental approval, whereas they don't think anyone should ever be allowed to transition ever. so once again he's appealed to nobody.

a lot of this stuff is an effort to appeal to or signal to people who might be broadly sympathetic to voting Labour and just want him to offer the fig leaf. the same applies when he tries to woo the LBGTQ+ community, trade unions, people who fondly remember the Labour Party etc

xp ofc, Stella Creasy did a q&a on there and every single question was about it, absolute lunacy

No point in trying to please fanatics arguing from a deranged position of personal identity, you can never ever appease them enough. Better to just say what you think, although like his forebear Blair Starmer appears to think nothing whatsoever other than a vague sense of patriotic authoritarianism.

I think these people are (usually implicitly) arguing from a *collective* identity of aggrieved middle class whiteness not from unique personal identity - that's the only reason powerful men give a shit about what they have to say after all

pic.twitter.com/WlW0Yv3c93

— Dr Unpleasant #EnoughIsEnough (@drunpleasant) November 18, 2022

Rachel Reeves once took a ball off a kid at an engagement party and threw it over the back fence before shouting at the kid and making them cry, then shouting at their parents as well. The parents ended up making a "her or us" at the wedding ultimatum to the engaged couple.

— Sii (@skippy_0h) November 18, 2022

this ghoul makes Jeremy Hunt seem like a human being... yeah I know!

He's not only one of the best MPs in Parliament and a fierce champion of the working class, but he's also an amazing friend and comrade.

I'm honestly so thrilled @IanByrneMP has been reselected as the Labour MP for Liverpool West Derby 🥳❤️ pic.twitter.com/3eNcyitH5e

— Zarah Sultana MP (@zarahsultana) November 20, 2022

this saved me organising my thoughts

I think that SCG M.P.s are often less bad personally but their presence lends legitimacy to the Labour machine that will ultimately grind them into paste.

That said, it is fun to see Harpin, Akehurst, and assorted Briefcase Enthusiasts eat shit every once in a while.

— Kier Hardly (@KeirWillow) November 20, 2022

that's about the only good thing about it, even with the odds heavily stacked in their favour these ghouls can't even manage a stitch-up properly

Quite an interesting piece on the politics of that seat.

https://www.livpost.co.uk/p/ian-byrne-fights-for-survival

"Crick believes there is a “lot of resentment” from the Corbyn years, when left-wing candidates were parachuted into seats"

except this never actually happened

not only did it not happen, but they didn't expel any of the right wing scumbags who are running amok now ffs

Michael Crick still has a job has he?

His current job sounds made-up.

“…michael crick?”

Yeah, right wing scumbags accusing Corbyn and/or Momentum of doing all the stuff they really should have been doing but didn't is a thing

Don't think that's what Lab left should've been doing. It's really petty, very locally factional stuff, picking one member at a time. The couple is constantly fighting, when divorce is an option.

I don't know how you would go about this but maybe it would be a re-drawing of the party constitution. Maybe mass taking away of whips from some of the worst MPs and some that might be ok but are landlords, or have interests, for example. Jobs jobs 'Unions' like GMB are toxic and would be kicked out too. The problem is it would make it smaller at first, you'd maybe lose an election or two but overtime it's organised into something worthwhile with a coherent set of policies.

https://t.co/Q9S4AUq57O pic.twitter.com/rBODuLAP5P

— the penny respecter (@ChrisKPH) November 26, 2022

coke and sublime

The 56D chess game continues pic.twitter.com/gbQMlLX2hU

— j (@jrc1921) November 29, 2022

She's been staunchly, tepidly supportive of him in the hope that he'll suddenly be who she thinks she wants him to be. pic.twitter.com/QFaVPtlrfr

— Kamal Prashar (@kampra) November 29, 2022

ah centrism. the vibes, the whole vibes and nothing but the vibes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-miliband-labour-general-election-b2235070.html

Big Beast.

Straining the already stretched metaphorical applicability of the words both “big” and “beast” IMO pic.twitter.com/vkfPlWgP1z

— Flying_Rodent (@flying_rodent) December 20, 2022

Tend to agree.

Nobody’s going to be able to stop Starmer getting in, but for gods sake don’t encourage the creeping fascism of the party by voting for him. The task is to break up a party that’s made itself morally meaningless and create the conditions where it’s forced to alter itself.

— matthew collings (@matthew51691936) February 20, 2023

do i want to click that tweet and read a bunch of maroons calling him a tory enabler? no sir, i do not

when the Tories have been voted out and they aren't actually opposing or voting against any of Labour's detrimental austerity+ benefits and NHS reforms and Rosie Duffield is the new minister for woman and equalities, that will be the time to congratulate yourself that you weren't no Tory enabler in 2024!

Do you really think Duffield gets any women’s or equalities job before Jess Phillips? The latter would elbow the former in the face for shits and giggles.

no, I was just rhetorically using Duffield for dramatic effect!