going to grad school was the best decision i ever made OR going to grad school was dumbest thing i ever did

?

a little from column a...

This is me (possibly) in about 3 months. I'm trying to get the regret out of my system ahead of time.

me too (possibly)
i want to hear horror stories or tales of glories and riches untold

I am hoping more of column A than B.

Um, it took going to grad school to figure out what I wanted to go to grad school for, but hopefully the PhD program will take care of that...

Things not to do: calculate how long it will take you to pay off the loans if grad-school does no improve my earning potential.

:(

my poor sister is going to have $136k in loans when she finishes her master's and starting salaries in her field are ~$40k...she hasn't even looked at what she's going to have to be paying.

i'm in grad school part-time, which is nice, only one night a week.

PROS: i can handle work and school no problem--no loans, either.
CONS: it's gonna take me five years to get an MA

a larger con is that because the program is a part-time writing program, my classmates don't take it as seriously as i'd like. there's a higher rate of half-assitude, i bet, in part time programs. (and i'm sure there are people who half ass it in full time programs, too.) but that's just a general impression.

a larger pro is i can take my time getting my thesis together, which is good b/c i am a slow writer.

another con--the only thing that's been worthwhile, really, have been workshops. my program requires lit electives and they've both sucked ass.

i want to hear horror stories or tales of glories and riches untold

How about I just send you a copy of "The Monkey's Paw"? Then you'll have both.

grad school is the new college. About half the people I know are getting their MA in something.

or rather, Masters.

yeah same. i feel like that's part of why i feel like i need to go :/

they tried to make me go to rehab but i said no, no, no

i mean grad school.

i really don't want to, but i kind of fear having to do it at some point if i ever leave this job.

Pros: easier than finding a real job after undergrad; didn't cost me anything/was paid a stipend to do it full time so no debt; helped me figure out what I was and was not good at; occasionally interesting/rewarding; got to meet lots of folks my age with my interests; some genuinely fun times had in nice casual collegial environment.

Cons: crushingly dull and disheartening at times; always more or less broke; could not do a single thing unrelated to my work without feeling guilty about it (should be in lab setting up another experiment instead of at the beach blah blah blah; should be reading Nature instead of the New Yorker etc etc etc); ummmmm but in general A+ would do again under the same circumstance. But quite happy to have just a job now and not interested in adding more schooling at this point.

it's pretty great assuming you can stay out of debt (a big assumption). I have been lucky enough in that respect as I near the finish line.

It was a good decision mainly because I came in with NO idea what I wanted to do with my life, and I will be leaving with a very good sense of what my calling is, and what I truly love--and I know also that I will go thought periods where my "calling" will feel like anything but...and I know i'll come around again. c'est la vie, etc.

TS: grad school as a natural extension of undergrad studies vs. grad school as an escape / left turn away from post-Bachelors work / life

reasons for me to go to grad school:
my undergrad degree is useless
i want to learn something practical
friends all doing it
fear of being in same job for rest of life
i will have a master's in 10 months and be able to work full-time

reasons for me not to go to grad school:
am not passionate about it
i will not have time to sleep
debt
afraid i will hate it
afraid i will die

My reasons for going were the same only I am very passionate about what I'm studying.

This last year I was FT work and FT school and it was very tough, I won't lie. I worked 8-4 M-F and then went to class until 10 3 nights a week. I'm glad that I did it this way because now I only have one semester left and will grad in December. I am leaving my job in August (WOOT!) because I have to do an internship in the Fall but would continue to do FT work if it was possible. For me at 30 it is worth the 1.5 years of suckage to get through it asap.

upside (for me):
- they waived fee even though i don't have an MA: BRRRAP
- possible career at the of it
- will change the game
- and get to be a doctor
- ???
- PROFIT

downside
- livin' with da 'rents to avoid debt
- poor social life (see above)
- conflicted over turning pro

friends all doing it

This is the reason why I played World of Warcraft for a year. NOT A GOOD REASON FOR ANYTHING. Mom's jump-off-bridge sermon OTM.

Fear of loathsome-job rut, OTOH, is #1, at least on my list.

grad school was absolutely worth my time. worked full time/went to school at night and paid for it all myself + got scholarships = no debt. i enjoyed 90% of my classes and i love my job, which i needed an MA to get. i am overjoyed about grad school, really.

note: i loathed the job i had while i was in grad school and those three years were not cake and i don't remember much about them, but i am pretty sure that totally loving my job makes up for that.

enbb what are you studying?

i would say i am interested in about half the stuff i will be learning, but not passionate about it. the other half will be really boring.

but i'm also interested because it's practical stuff i feel like i SHOULD know anyways

i had a full-time job when i started doing a phd and it did not work out so well, but YMMV.

Enbb - public health iirc

Woah - close! Women's health and concentrating in sexual and reproductive health.

My BA was in Eng Lit/creative writing so I needed to go back to school if I ever wanted to get out of higher ed admin and into WH.

the only reason why i think i will be able to handle the job/school is because it is only a 10 month program and i should be able to push myself through it.

but i also worry that i like sleeping too much.

i mean, i reallllllly love sleeping.

My motivation is that I hate the sector in which I currently work and I need some leverage to get into the sector I do want to work in, especially if I don't want to take a massive pay cut.

yeah but you can get through ten lousy months, easy. i think you should do it, provided the degree enables you to make enough money to pay off the debt, if there is any.

Bell - My reason for doing FT work/school was the exact same. It would have been 3.5 years had I done it PT and that just seemed too long.

I like sleeping more than anyone I know. Seriously it's one of my favorite things in the world. If I can do it, you can do too.

Sadly I will have debt but I'm not too worried about it. It'll work out some way.

i'm not too worried about the debt since the degree should help me get a better-paying job eventually. i can pay about half of the tuition with savings and the other half will be loans. lol goodbye savings :(

i mean, when i think about the debt my sister is getting herself into, it's practically a bargain.

Yeah, you will make $$$ so don't need to worry about that.

I got a grant that covers 50% tuition and the other 50% is loans.

A) So clearly the best decision I ever made it isn't funny.

I can't speak for everyone's grad school experience but it's already paying off for me in ways I couldn't previously have imagined and I still have two years left. That said, there have been times when I've totally hated everything about it (usually the times when I have a million deadlines and my healh/home life is in tatters), but I have to admit it has been worth it for me. I will be in a lot of debt and I'd have to be crazy to think that anyone in the real world will pay me to do the stuff I'm doing now, but I've made efforts to pursue more nuts-and-bolts experience in related things that will hopefully leave me with a better chance of being employed than if I was just another Mother Fucking Artist. I have to admit that getting paid/a job isn't the be all and end all of this project, but of course I be insane to think it doesn't matter.

^^you're at CalArts, right? Which program is this?

Film/Video

Do you know much about the Critical Studies program? i.e. is it as awful as it seems like it could be?

I guess I mean the MFA Writing program.

I almost applied to that.

reasons for me not to go to grad school:
am not passionate about it
i will not have time to sleep
debt
afraid i will hate it
afraid i will die

I don't know how much debt you are looking at, but I don't know how I could get through grad school if I wasn't passionate about it. Maybe that sounds corny? I think if I ever doubted what I was doing for a second I would go into some kind of seizure. But it seems like grad school is built around the idea that you immerse yourself in something to such a degree you begin to believe the whole world actually cares about the (potentially) esoteric thing that you are studying, and only through this process can you summon the self confidence to continue doing it once you leave school. Of course, whether that works remains to be seen...

xp
Yeah I took a class in the MFA Writing Program last year. It was totally fantastic, actually! Maybe the best class I've taken so far.

i could do 10 months sans passion, but not (yikes) four-five years.

This seems like a funny place to make a joke about marriage?

Maybe I'll save that for a marriage thread

subtext INTENDED

ok

We should have a "being married and in grad school" thread. that would be fun.

Not really dumbest, but it certainly was a soul-rending experience. I mean, I left ABD because I couldn't imagine finishing.

All of my grad school friends but 2 dropped out. Of the two that didn't, one is a math prof and the other is an accountant.

i am starting an MFA Writing program in the fall. i would rather do DJ nights and PT work somewhere while studying to become a professor (as that is what getting an MFA in writing is for, really) than flounder in this fucking horrific job market.

In my opinion, the single MOST important thing in grad school is to have a thesis advisor you like and who will support you from thesis to post-doc to whatever. I mean, it's worth going to a second-rate school if you can get this.

I don't know what age(s) people on this thread are, but I took 7 years between undergrad and grad school and I'm really glad I did. If you can do it, work a shitty job for a while or move to another country or do a really well paid job that you hate or get involved in a serious relationship before you back to school. It will benefit you enormously.

current job market makes that easy for you to say, perhaps.

i'm 6 years out of school and have plenty o shitty work experience under my belt

and the job market also sucked in 2002

current job market makes that easy for you to say, perhaps.

Meaning what? The job market was terrible when I first moved to SF. Everyone I knew was unemployed or had been laid off at least once and I worked 6 days a week and still didn't make rent. But yeah, I imagine it could get worse than that. The flipside is do you really want to take on student debt in (financial) times like these?

xxp
great!

xp
see above

I don't know what age(s) people on this thread are, but I took 7 years between undergrad and grad school and I'm really glad I did. If you can do it, work a shitty job for a while or move to another country or do a really well paid job that you hate or get involved in a serious relationship before you back to school. It will benefit you enormously.

so OTM

Yeah but I read that back now and I sound like one of those people talking about "paying your dues" that I always fucking hated (and still do)!

yeah but i don't read it as paying your dues. i read it as having a life and exploring the world, reading whatever books you want, etc

Ah, an excellent point. Make sure to study a subject you already like reading about in your civilian life! I guess that's that passion thing again

the job market in the UK now is good for university graduates, so far as i can tell. it's not worse than it was in 2001 when i graduated.

I don't know what age(s) people on this thread are, but I took 7 years between undergrad and grad school and I'm really glad I did. If you can do it, work a shitty job for a while or move to another country or do a really well paid job that you hate or get involved in a serious relationship before you back to school. It will benefit you enormously.

-- admrl, Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:14 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

for some reason i agree with this! i was only four years out of uni, but it felt like a lot longer, and i'd tried quite a few things (not so successfully) around the area i wanted into.

the job market in the UK now is good for university graduates, so far as i can tell.

Big article at the weekend on how it has collapsed this summer.

like a knife through the heart the title of this thread.

i had 4 yrs of working/etc btwn undergrad and grad school and then i moved here all whoohoo grad school yaay and took for fucking ever to finish my masters and guess what? nobody else cares how long it takes you or how old you are when you start or finish. and i got to do a whole bunch of work, journalism, writing, art, music stuff in that time too - whole lotta paths opened, totally unexpected things learned & done. and holy hell it's better than "what did you do over the past five years?" "oh yknow worked a crappy job, spent money on dumb stuff, drifted into stagnation, yknow, s'okay"

my debt is manageable
i did not go to grad school to 'get a better job' tho
i feel like the whole MBA thing is almost a separate kind of grad school...

Big article at the weekend on how it has collapsed this summer.

-- Ed, Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:40 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

link? not that im personally bothered, but i was relying on anecdotal intel from 5-6 weeks ago.

This wasn't the article but the gists is the same:

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,2285738,00.html

me, bothered?

isn't that what they say now? The kids?

i did not go to grad school to 'get a better job' tho
i feel like the whole MBA thing is almost a separate kind of grad school...

I agree with this. Maybe I'm not sure what type of grad school we are talking about here. I imagine I could be doing similar work to that which I did before grad school when I get out, but maybe not. I went to learn stuff and meet like-minded people/collaborators, both of which I have done/am doing.

If you can do it, work a shitty job for a while or move to another country or do a really well paid job that you hate or get involved in a serious relationship before you back to school. It will benefit you enormously.

Totally agree. LOL - I had eight years between undergrad and grad in which I did 3 out of those four (shitty job(s), spent 2 yrs in England, got married). I think going to grad school right out of college would have been a HUGE mistake for me. I grew and changed so much during that time and I think I appreciate the whole experience more now then I would have then.

shitty job(s), spent 2 yrs in England, got married

are you the reverse me?

i wish i had gone to another country or done something fun and adventurous after school...but unfortunately my main priority above all else was getting health insurance before i was bankrupted by medical bills. blah.

x-post - LOL Pretty much except we're in the States now for a couple of years.

BL - I was just really lucky in that I have EU citizenship otherwise I'd have been too concerned with health insurance etc. to ever have done it.

yes - that's awesome! jealous.

i wish i had gone to another country or done something fun and adventurous after school...but unfortunately my main priority above all else was getting health insurance before i was bankrupted by medical bills. blah.

This is more than understandable. I had a huge, expensive surgery right before I started school which cost almost as much as two years tuition. I was totally holding my breath until I got an all-clear from the insurers. So...don't go grad school if you still have those medical bills. But I'm sure you know that

If you can do it, work a shitty job for a while or move to another country or do a really well paid job that you hate or get involved in a serious relationship before you back to school. It will benefit you enormously.

This is OTM, I wish I had done this before undergrad as well.

yes me too. i wish i had even just worked a year before undergrad, i was so misguided.

I took a year out before undergrad. I don't know if kids in the UK do that any more now that tuition isn't free?

I took a year but had already made my decisions about university. I wish I'd taken more time and more work.

I was a creative writing major in undergrad and I would never, ever get an MFA in writing.

Also, so glad I didn't end up in journalism school. Only marginally more worthwhile, but a serious rip-off.

I'm curious, what do people do with an MFA in writing? I mean, I had a BA in Literature and a minor in ancient Greek, and I found some hardcore writing jobs. What's the MFA supposed to do, get you a advance for a novel by a publisher?

MFA in writing means you can compete for a teaching job with all the other MFA writing grads. but yeah, MFA=teaching degree.

Haven't you already started four threads about this, Burt?

Nope

LIES

Oh my god, I'm a hipster
at what point did grind core and black metal become the hipster music du jour?
How do you rekindle your love affair with life?
Friendiquette: Special etiquette for friends?
Yo, any of you dudes into Gilbert Sorrentino?
Boning someone you're not particularly attracted to just because - C/D?

bell labs - you should try turning the effort and angst you are putting into this decision towards getting more info from profs, deans, or alums from whatever program you are thinking of attending. taking steps towards getting an mba is not OMG I AM GOING TO BE A BORING SUIT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

in regards to that life thing, taking steps towards getting an mba DESTROYS the analysis paralysis of angsting over a decision. A lot of decisions take care of themselves as long as you maintain the momentum of actually doing things i.e. you take two mba classes - you realize you hate them and want nothing to do with an mba <---- this is much more productive then angsting over the decision of what to do!

bnw i think you are otm. i'm actually going to an alumni q&a session thing tonight.

i'm glad i took time between undergrad and grad school but i also feel like the grad students in their early 20s have the advantage over me because of their youth and energy and that they're still very much in the "school" mindset.

i feel like the mccain to their obama

I think being a little more jaded helps you cut through a lot of the b.s. Also makes you less intimidated by the profs and administration. (But I do take classes at night so there aren't many young whipper-snappers about).

alum q&a's are good. You should try to ask at least one really direct question, like "could you have gotten your job without this degree?"

All the FOUG*s in my program seem to not have a very good idea of what they want to research. I think the years off let me formulate my academic interests without having to produce academic work constantly.

* Fresh Outa Undergrad

I graduated last April and have been doing the 'year off' thing. Applied in December for grad school, got in, and am meant to go back this autumn.

And now I don't want to. I really, really don't want to. a lot has changed since December. Is it worth it to jeopardise being very happy where I am in life right now for something I no longer feel sure or passionate about?

No, and besides you can come back to grad school in a couple of years, heavier in experience and lighter in debt.

x-post No. Can you defer? The Uni where I work lets grad students defer for up to two years.

thankfully I don't have the debt thing to contend with, and nor should I after my hypothetical masters, as I'd be on TA funding to cover expenses. but having a bit of extra money to go in with and further out-of-school experience would probably be a plus, yeah.

don't know about deferring! seems unlikely for a masters degree, but it's worth looking into. I really don't feel like I could give this an honest effort right now... and I don't want to do something like this half-heartedly...

[sorry to temporarily derail your thread, bell_labs]

going to grad school really was the best decision i ever made. so there.

I'm halfway through my M.P.A. It's probably a little too early, and I'll probably come back to this thread in a few years and yell at myself, but I'm almost certain it was a very good decision to go to grad school. True, I'm going to have to start paying off $60K in debt next summer, and there are plenty of times when the stress boils over. But even just 2 years off between undergrad and grad school was enough to completely freak me out. I've always done well in school, graduated with honors, etc, but after not even being able to get a job as a fucking TEMP WORKER in Chicago after months and months of applying (I ended up doing data entry for a year, and going crazy. I contemplated becoming a postman), I was itching to get back to school.

Now I actually have hopes of, like, a career. Whoa.

i really enjoyed doing my MA in english lit, looking for teaching jobs right now to kill time before local schools recover enough post-katrina to reinstate such useless things as phd programs in the humanities. if the idea of going the rest of your life without having a serious conversation about novelistic heteroglossia or whatever is unbearable (as, sadly, it is for me) grad school is the way to go.

It was the worst of times it was the best of times. Either way you're broke right?

I'm halfway through my M.P.A. ... Now I actually have hopes of, like, a career. Whoa.

i think you'll do fine. MPAs are very hireable, even if they don't make MBA salaries.

Hey, where are you getting your MFA? My gf is about to finish at Maxwell...

Jesus, look at the liberal arts major. MPA, I mean.

Are fees worse in the US than in the UK?

Is it worth it to jeopardise being very happy where I am in life right now for something I no longer feel sure or passionate about?

Not going to grad school is one of the best choices I've ever made. My last of year of undergrad I applied to grad school, got in and then realized I had no idea why I was doing this, other than because I was good at school and I didn't really like the job I had currently. So I deferred and then chose not to go, got a different job and thought about what I wanted to do. I travelled and read a lot and generally fucked around since I acutally had $$$ + spare time all of which was more fun then paying money to be somewhere I wasn't sure I wanted to be.

Hey, where are you getting your MFA? My gf is about to finish at Maxwell...

-- Eppy, Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:43 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Jesus, look at the liberal arts major. MPA, I mean.

At the Cornell Institute for Public Affairs, in environmental policy.

Are fees worse in the US than in the UK?

Um, yeah!! Tuition at my graduate school is upwards of $25,000 a year. My undergrad was around $30,000 a year. Admittedly these are on the high side but in general higer ed tuition in US is ridiculously expensive.

I've done it twice. First time (M.A., English literature) was very interesting and stimulating, though it didn't do much for me professionally. I didn't exactly expect it to though. Second time (M.S., Library science) was excruciatingly boring, though it prepared me for a career. I didn't expect the second degree to be much fun, rather it was a professional degree that I needed.

So for Bell, it seems you are more interested in the professional development component of the degree. I would try to decide where you want to end up professionally and what degree could help you get there. I don't really know the ins and outs of the B-school degree versus the finance degree, so I can't be much help there. Grad degrees can be helpful in kick-starting your career, or in enabling you to take a U-turn that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to take.

Most of what I learnt about grad school is included in this helpful cartoon

something familiar about VA Plain ...

i thought for sure that badg's link would be piled higher and deeper

Hi BNW! Miss you. I don't have anyone to take long ferry rides to far-flung beaches with this summer.

the Q&A was really really helpful. the program that i'm looking at is an MS in finance, not an mba, and i was worried that i'd be going to school with a bunch of wanna be ibankers. but most of the alumni came from other backgrounds (engineering, journalism) and were just looking to branch out in their current careers, not get hired by goldman sachs.

i'm worried about the work. it will be about 15 hours of study a week and 12 hours of classes, and a lot of group projects. i don't know if i can deal with group projects. but i guess if an aspie engineer can do it i will be ok. a lot of it will be accounting which i know nothing about and find incredibly boring. but i think i'm going to do it.

Thank god I didn't get my PhD. In English academia, if you don't have Noam Chomsky tattooed on one ass cheek and Che Guevera tattooed on the other, you're considered Adolf Hitler.

http://4chanarchive.org/images/co/2590289/1198561721053.gif

(xposts) my downfall with group projects is that i'm always most interested in the topics nobody else wants to do, so i get stuck with the people who don't give a shit what group they end up in.

also the grading on a curve thing...i've never been graded on a curve, so forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that some people are necessarily failed in every class?

no, its just grade inflation in my experience

i think i wont go to grad school until im at least 30 (4 years from now), and a little more lifestyle/location-settled. i have no interest in being a crazed grad student; id rather just stick w my undergrad degree than do that - i wanna be focused and interested in what im studying.

also i have no idea what id do - math, statistics, econ??? who knowz

Bell, is there any reason why you have to do this in one year? Why not split it up into two years, and you can do it more leisurely.

the reason is that i want to get it all over with! i'm afraid that if i drag it out i'll never finish.

They have just sent me my email account details for CMU, it is all getting rather close.

i'm glad i took time between undergrad and grad school but i also feel like the grad students in their early 20s have the advantage over me because of their youth and energy and that they're still very much in the "school" mindset.

I'm feeling the opposite, like I maybe learned a few Valuable Life Lessons in my twenties and that I am more willing to call bullshit on bureaucracy and get what I came to get out of my education.

And, I mean, I also didn't have much energy as an early-20-something.

But, I might well be deluded about all that.

there's truth in that. the older kids in my program are definitely the more vocal ones in terms of both class discussions and bullshit-calling

uh, "older kids" = adults

It's getting into late October/November = I'm freaking out.

Grad school would be fine if it weren't for the 4-5 months a year where I COMPLETELY FREAK OUT

Grad school life would be fine if it weren't for the 4-5 months a year where I COMPLETELY FREAK OUT

i spent all day today making phone calls and have basically nothing to show for it (for a paper due wednesday)

the older kids in my program are definitely the more vocal ones in terms of both class discussions and bullshit-calling

Oh dear god, I really have to restrain myself to stfu as it stands. Future me, by this portent, will be irritating & terrifying by equal turns.

Abbott telling all those damn kids to get off her lawn -- even her own!

taking time off was the best ever.

tho, i keep having fever dreams about quitting and moving back to the mountains :-/

"You lawn, you better get off my lawn, lawn!"

Me too, only my escapist dreams are day-style, not fever.
I'm in the midst of Fall "Break" right now. My teachers (all of them) were nice enough to assign extra work during the break because we have extra time to work on it. Thanks!

One of the nice things is that most of the students in my program are keeners, so it's all fair game.

But yes, I have my first set of papers and midterms coming up and I am having the dry heaves. I'm kinda stressed out in other ways so my thinking just isn't happening so well. Meh. Oh well, I will muddle through.

i am at the point of not caring. nothing can make me care. this is bad. (i am in 3rd of 4 semesters, but 4th semester will be a drastically lighter load, so it feels like the last semester now...)

i have so much further to go :(

i'm applying for (mostly) useless MA programs this fall, i'm a bit nervous. the people i know in the field who are now applying for jobs are having a lot of trouble finding them even with their degrees. i'm wondering if i should give myself a few years to fail and then apply to law school.

srsly, most stressful "break" ever

the former

Kinda surprised I never gave a full answer on this one, then again I'd already said a lot on this thread, so requoting that:

--

Hm hm hm. Well.

As muttered many times before, I went through the grad school wringer for some years -- when I thought of applying, I was still an undergrad and unsure What I Wanted to Do With My Life. I wasn't dead set on becoming a professor or anything but I did like the sound of teaching maybe on a junior college level -- I knew that my teaching skills would probably serve me better than my academic writing per se, and so events proved later on in particular. So I applied, not really knowing what to expect, and ended up being accepted at UCI with a four year fellowship -- it wasn't my first choice but my parents urged me not to look a gift horse in the mouth (and they were the only campus to accept me anyway, out of five!), so I went.

In retrospect having the fellowship was a very very good thing -- because it gave me the ability to leave when it ran out, and to not feel what I think is a real obligation on the part of many in grad school who rack up huge loans to see things through and pay everything off in the chosen profession, even if the desire has to some extent died. That may sound extremely negative but to provide a bit of balance, there was much in grad school -- in my case, English lit -- to enjoy. There was the discussion and deeper study of texts new and old to my experience, real camaraderie and friendship in the trenches, and in particular the joys of teaching writing -- which, had I known that I liked it so much beforehand, would have meant I would have applied to grad school in teaching writing and composition, and would probably be my career now, quite possibly. And even far more valuable than that were the external friendships formed on campus at the radio station and newspaper -- that's how I met donut bitch a mere couple of days after I came to the campus, and he's still one of my best friends ever. So for many, many different personal reasons, I don't regret my time spent in grad school.

But on a professional level, I was ultimately a washout -- something that many professors sagely and correctly noted was hardly unique and didn't mean I couldn't contribute something somewhere, just not in a formal academic setup. I did well enough but struggled at points, always felt like I was playing catchup and ultimately concluded that I didn't have the particular focus others were bringing to their studies -- but on the flipside I didn't feel like I was committing myself heart and soul to something that ultimately took the joy out of one of my greatest pleasures, out of simply reading. The pressure to always study and read up and become an expert in an area is a vicious (if, again, understandable) cycle of internal and external pressure, the more so because you have to think ahead to finding a place, making your name, publishing or perishing...it can reward those who look for particular challenges but again it is not for everyone. My studies towards my oral exams were desultory, my foci too cramped and rushed, and in the end I was tripped up by what I still think is a ridiculous extra language requirement -- though in respects that provided a nudge for me to pull the ripcord and get out. I was awake once more after a sleepless night and thought to myself "If I wasn't in grad school, I wouldn't be feeling so miserable." I repeated it to myself, and there and then, I left. I went through the motions of a leave of absence, I searched quickly to get a job and found it -- the same one I have now -- and as soon as I could, I got out and never looked back.

Some of the grads, I heard later indirectly, apparently thought I was chickening out, which is understandable. But others told me directly that they wished they could have the guts to do what I did, which I found very telling. Meanwhile, a former head of the department told me soon after that I was doing the right thing, and when I asked why, he ruefully and simply noted, "You have a job." The amount of grads being produced in many programs was not being matched with job supply, a situation that probably hasn't improved much, and which occasioned the great, cynical comment I overhead between one grad and another a couple of years before I left: "Do you ever feel like you're at the world's most expensive cab driver training school?"

I now tell people you should go to grad school for one of two reasons only:

1. Working in the professional, on an academic level or in a position that requires a doctorate, is EXACTLY what you want to do. It is your dream, your goal, your desire, you know the challenges and you will not waver. In which case, all power to you and I hope you do fantastically.

If that does not apply, then the only other reason is:

2. You can afford to get out, to leave and have no regrets. I stumbled into that with the fellowship by accident. For most, you should be able to have something already set aside, and if you're only doing it for the sake of knowledge and can afford to leave and concentrate on other things when you're done, great. Avoid loans at all costs.

I am asked every so often if I want to study to be a librarian. I am flattered but no. I have done grad school, I got an MA, whatever ego boost I needed I got. I did learn from the experience and I've applied that knowledge in quiet ways as I read and study other things. I could get more money in the field of library work with an MLS, but it would mean the wringer again, and I have had enough of formal school to last a lifetime, so I will not go back.

what's your job security like, ned? are you union or state-employed or something like that? i mean, can you work there forever if you want?

my life would seem like it was going somewhere if I were in grad school and so many "srs ppl with srs future" jobs require it...but whenever I do the calculations and research I just go back to: "I don't want that debt. I don't want that debt."

xpost -- State-employed via the UC, which has been handy in avoiding the direct tussle over state workers' wages these past couple of years as Schwarznegger can't simply snap his fingers like he does with the rest of the state apparatus. We've still had to deal with reductions and furloughs though, and budgets are going to be grim for a while yet to come. Also covered via a union that has recently affiliated with the Teamsters, of all things. So job security is pretty solid but I always do wonder about the future from time to time.

And no, iatee, you really don't want that debt, but as I said, if there's something you really really want to do that requires the degree...

I am hoping grad school isn't one more in a series of classically insane & stupid decisions. Eh. I found out, anyway, that if I work in a public library, they forgive my loans after 10 years of payments.

god my student loan debt is depressingly atrocious. I think grad school, though it will add to it, will in the long run help me get out from under it since I don't think a bachelors in anthropology is going to open the doors wide to fantastic career opportunities.