People who use the phrase "Uncle Tom" should be beaten senseless

upstanding democrat eisbaer to thread

btw i actually have an uncle tom & he lived in a cabin

uncle ron

We have a family friend (actually my godfather) who is very carefully referred to as Uncle Tommy. I never understood why until around junior high.

oh good louis is here

btw i actually have an uncle tom & he lived in a cabin

-- and what, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:42 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

the new "some of my best friends..."?

Anything that says/codifies "you're a sellout if you try to better yourself, why not, like, do nothing" is total bullshit. Voted "no they should be shot".

I read that as Chuck D and spent a couple of minutes with my head spinning and then re-read it and wondered why there's no 'they should be castrated' option.

in these times i felt "they should be stabbed" is the most appropriate

So where does all this leave Harriet Beecher Stowe?

The use of "uncle Tom" pointed at Obama by DJ Chuck T is mind-boggling, like "uncle tom" Obama is selling out black people everywhere by being in with a good shot at becoming the president of the United states of America I MEAN, ONLY THE MOST POWERFUL MAN ON PLANET EARTH, wtf.

"powerful"

So where does all this leave Harriet Beecher Stowe?

Still dead, I guess.

RIP

We have a family friend (actually my godfather) who is very carefully referred to as Uncle Tommy. I never understood why until around junior high.

-- HI DERE, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:43 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^^^^^^^

(hence "totes" and "hence")

<3

he should keeping it real as a bitchy e-thuggin mixtape dj not community organizing like some kinda uncle tom

Obama gonna coast for life on "community organizing" no matter how many warrantless wiretaps he's cool with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Shows

^^^v. intersting reading, explains a lot of why "Uncle Tom" came to mean what it means today

"powerful"

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:02

"Dr"

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?cat=165

thread title brings back memories:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACCW71GsipI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a47ujEUuG9s&feature=related

Obama gonna coast for life on "community organizing" no matter how many warrantless wiretaps he's cool with.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 10:10 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

he can't compete with your history of selfless public service

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071207133746AAUHEy3

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?cat=165

-- am0n, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:18 (4 minutes ago) Link

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?p=3906

^get out of jail free card

I actually have an Uncle Tom and he lives in a mobile home.

wikipedia link is interesting reading, thx Dan.

Urgh @ that outlaw "news" link, especially the second article, where some infow4rs nutjob sends obama a screed on govt did 9/11, and Obama's (excellent) response is used as a junping-off point for blah blah blah alex jones blah blah ron paul etc etc etc. (xpost the one bnw direct links to)

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjTSX.CaOJ_CalXz.CVbGR8J5wt.;_ylv=3?qid=20070217005120AAHSgj8

I actually have an Uncle Tom

he's white btw

marley - absurdly overrated uncle tom. eric clapton with boot polish.
-- Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 08:25 (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

that's Jacob Marley tbf.

holy shit

lord custos was fond of the "____ with a tan" formulation when describing black artists as similar to white ones

the only one i remember offhand was that ice-t was "jello biafra with a tan"

Doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever, that one.

B-but they did a song together!

(x-post) I guess it's kind of on a level w/people describing rap as "the black punk" (which to be fair I haven't seen used for a long while)

is UTC worth reading then? must be the most frequently derided classic ever.

upstanding democrat eisbaer to thread

-- and what, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 13:41 (1 hour ago) Link

as always, ethan padgett squandering any & all good will in order to get in a cheap zing.

I don't know if it's worth reading, but it seems to be a classic and basically anti-slavery and political, and was the biggest selling book in the 19th C behind the bible. (cf: Wiki)

uncle t(h)om(as) sowell

i use it when i hate his columns, which is all of them. so shoot me.

dude you called clarence thomas an uncle tom repeatedly, even when people asked you to stop

dude you called clarence thomas an uncle tom repeatedly, even when people asked you to stop

years ago, dude, years ago ...

i mean really -- do you have such a sad life that you have to regurgitate offhanded remarks made years ago? and do you really think that endlessly reguritating such remarks serve any useful purpose other than cheap zings?!?

stabbed, definitely stabbed.

i have never claimed to serve any purpose beyond cheap zings

it's really a shame, ethan, b/c you often have very insightful things to say on this topic and others ... and yet you choose to throw away all of the good will such insights create just to score some cheap points.

you might want to think about that sometime.

harriet butthurt stowe

Sorry if this is a little disruptive to the thread, but maybe of some interest I coincidentally just stumbled upon this, which I'd never heard of before...

Topsy & Eva, a vaudevillian musical-comedy play by the Duncan Sisters, a retelling of Uncle Tom's Cabin with the central focus on the novel's inversed pair of children, Topsy and Eva, instead of Uncle Tom.

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/duncanpost.jpg

Very few, if any, of the thousands who brought Uncle Tom's Cabin to the stage did so to promote Stowe's message. When the Duncans discovered the possibilities of using the novel to expand their own career, surely they had neither the proper role for Christians nor the horrors of slavery in mind. The stories they told about how they became Topsy and Eva are all tempered by the fact that they appeared in response to press interviews. The most broadly distributed version appeared in The American Magazine in August, 1925. The sisters were established vaudeville stars by that time. 'A little more than two years ago,' Rosetta told an interviewer, 'a man came to us to see about doing something in motion pictures.' After several ideas were broached and dismissed, 'finally he said . . . "I guess we'll have to black you up."'

i have never claimed to serve any purpose beyond cheap zings

I don't want to come across like a schoolteacher or any of that "you're letting yourself down" shit, but you ARE worth loads more than that, Ethan.

guys.

and what - absurdly overrated cheap zings. rodney dangerfield with boot polish.
-- Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 08:25 (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

no, he's not.

it's really a shame, ethan, b/c you often have very insightful things to say

DNFAW

do not fellate a wiener?

Did Nanna Find A Walrus?

Why is Ethan wearing boot polish?

he's jello without a tan?

i swear this place needs a ball-busting sensitivity/self-defense seminar

maybe we could rename "moderator request forum" as "ball-busting sensitivity/self-defense seminar".

butthurt aquatherapy

colonic irritation

I tried to divert attention upthread, though I'm not very good at like...stuff.

X WITH BOOT POLISH PEOPLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KzYwGZGNAc

People who use the phrase "Uncle Tom" should be hung from the nearest tree.

Except for me, since I do have an Uncle Thomas. He plays jazz on the public station and goes by the moniker of "Captain Tom".

"The King and I" to thread.

You guys should read the wikipedia link on Uncle Tom's Cabin, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin

Reading this made me wonder why I let preconceived notions keep me from picking up this book.

Who's actually read this, btw? What did you think of it?

I read it in 8th grade for English class. I found it difficult to follow TBH. My main memories are that a) The meanest man in the book, Simon Legree, was actually a Yankee and b) the characters were all pretty overdetermined. And c) I was having much more fun learning the chords to "Iron Man" by Ozzy Osbourne.

However, in 1985 Jane Tompkins changed this view of Uncle Tom's Cabin with her landmark book In Sensational Designs: The Cultural Work of American Fiction.[40] Tompkins praised the very sentimental style so many other critics had dismissed, noting that sentimental novels showed how women's emotions had the power to change the world for the better. She also said that the popular domestic novels of the 19th century, including Uncle Tom's Cabin, were remarkable for their "intellectual complexity, ambition, and resourcefulness"; and that Uncle Tom's Cabin offers a "critique of American society far more devastating than any delivered by better-known critics such as Hawthorne and Melville."[43]

We read it in class when I was in junior school, 1975-ish, maybe. TBH I can't remember a damn thing about it, except for tears in the classroom at some of the outrageous unfairness portrayed. I must admit that more recently I'd assumed it was one of those books where the message is abolitionist/anti colonialism, but it reflected the attitudes & language of the time in which it was written, thus problematical.

Maybe we could all pick up a copy, read it and compare notes in a week or so? Could be interesting.

im actually up for that - ilx book club!

I say "totes," does that make me racist?

^^^ its true, he does

i think it makes you a douchebag, was the point (which is otm sorry crut)

We tried a book club once before, didn't last. Dan and I ended up reading Invisible Man, though -- great book.

Who's actually read this, btw? What did you think of it?

Read it in college, I think? Tracer's summary jibes with my memory of it but there are definitely some memorable, heartwrenching scenes. It's interesting to read some of the violent reactions to the book at the time from the South, just to see how deep and horrible the self-delusion was.

xpost but their socks really are toasty

I admit I've never read Uncle Tom's Cabin. All this time, I thought Tom was a "house boy" who may have even helped his white owners find runaway slaves (as I was reading the plot synopsis and it talked about Eliza escaping, I was expecting to read that Tom turned her in or something.)

Turns out, he's not. At least not in the novel.

The Uncle Tom, or African American who is too eager to please white people (in the character of Uncle Tom). Stowe intended Tom to be a "noble hero." The stereotype of him as a "subservient fool who bows down to the white man" evidently resulted from staged "Tom Shows," over which Stowe had no control.

So to answer the poll's question, people who use the phrase "Uncle Tom" should be at least violently shaken, if not for some unjust observation that a black man is selling out by running for president, but because they're being ignorant as well.

oh, now I remember where I heard of this in middle school -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_I

now with extra racism.

Meanwhile, a new (literate) slave for the king named Tuptim -- a gift from the king of Burma -- befriends "Mrs. Anna" and borrows her copy of Uncle Tom's Cabin. She transforms it into the Siamese ballet Small House of Uncle Thomas, which is presented amidst the welcoming of emissaries from Great Britain, making it clear she is unhappy being a slave to the King.

this place is in my neighborhood. i don't know the man posing.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/461880740_61a9bdc322.jpg

jane smiley big ups Stowe - i read some article in Harper's like 12 years ago where she rips down Huckleberry Finn in order to build up Uncle Tom's Cabin. I found her argumnents overheated and full of shit but there is definitely a revisionist school that says the book has been unfairly maligned

couldn't find the original article but this one talks about it
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D02E0DF1E3BF933A25750C0A960958260

Mid-nineteenth century sentimental literature tragic death t/s -- Uncle Tom vs. Little Nell

this book is worth reading, but it is also a pain in the ass. i would totally participate in an ilx book club devoted to it.

separate thread maybe?

started but never finished reading it when writing dissertation on blackface

mainly because of the tom shows as per upthread, and how it fed into all that. there's a v good book on the reception, usage, abusage of the book - uncle tom mania, by i think sarah meer?

the book itself is really soggy, though, and the pictures drawn of the black characters would be hard to cope with in a book that wasn't explicitly written as an anti-slavery book for white female slaveowners

for real sometimes the term "uncle tom" just applies

I don't understand why it is so maligned, but then I've never tried to read it. Is this shades of being a product of its time, despite the strong anti-slavery message that is the whole point of the book? I mean it was basically an after-school special for the entire country, I thought -- meant to raise awareness of horror of slavery etc.

Er xxxxp by several

Subtract "after-school special", add "Lifetime Channel showcase".

laurel or horseshoe will u spark the thread because if i do everyone will think it is a joke

Just start this one up again:

book club

when exactly would that be? like when you feel like calling someone a race traitor but want to make sure that everyone listening knows they're black?

xxxxp to brainwasher

I get what Brainwasher means but I still really, really, really hate the term (for lol obvious reasons).

i dont get what he means because its a slur basically by definition

Yes, and there are times where calling out the behavior referenced by that slur is justifiable. That doesn't make it any less of an ugly thing to say; it would be foolish to say that self-sabotaging appeasement behavior doesn't exist, though.

it would be foolish to say that self-sabotaging appeasement behavior doesn't exist, though.

But this particular phrase, or derivation thereof - "Tomming", for example - really can't be divorced from the racial implications it carriers, can it? Someone could call me an Uncle Tom and I'd be all "huh?"

Someone could call me an Uncle Tom and I'd be all "huh?"

To clarify: I'm white.

shocking

im white btw

:D

shocking

hm. not sure what to make of this. I thought I'd passed for black for all these years.

Uncle Tuomas

so brainwasher yr argument is that 'uncle tom' does not carry any racial connotations? seriously?

um, where did I say that

for real sometimes the term "uncle tom" just applies

-- The Brainwasher

you didnt, but im asking you wtf you mean by that because it doesnt make much sense to me

some people are uncle toms

it's pretty self-explanatory

Thankfully my niece calls me Thomas.

in other words, the phrase 'uncle tom' has no racial connotations

lol what?

obviously it has racial connotations... that doesn't make it any less true in certain cases

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/minkster24/sockpuppets.jpg

seriously what the fuck is this teenpop cull survivor on about

its pretty obvious what brainwasher is saying outside of whether or not he is RONG. deeznuts in being willfully retarded shocker.

deeznuts jesus christ stfu

if deez is a sockpuppet hes the lamest one ever.

poll^^

congrats to both of you for once again completely missing the point

They're not the only ones.

please explain it to us

actually

so we've gone from parsing Obama's comments on gay marriage to Uncle Tomism in two days!

Yes, and there are times where calling out the behavior referenced by that slur is justifiable. That doesn't make it any less of an ugly thing to say; it would be foolish to say that self-sabotaging appeasement behavior doesn't exist, though.

-- HI DERE

i feel like being a good sockpuppet would require actually getting ppl to engage with your willful stupidity vs. making everyone throw up their hands after your second post

Then how do you explain gabbneb?

calling that behavior 'uncle tomism' or whatever is inherently racist

when exactly would that be? like when you feel like calling someone a race traitor but want to make sure that everyone listening knows they're black?

brainwasher could have saved us all a lot of time and just answered "yes" to this, BTW.

abour a million xposts you quick typing fuckers

Then how do you explain gabbneb?

-- Laurel, Wednesday, July 9, 2008 2:24 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

surprisingly, i believe he is a real boy

http://polnotes.typepad.com/windfarmblog/images/pinocchio.gif

i know i tried to ignore him @ first but then everyone got going again

xp to bb

but want to make sure that everyone listening knows they're black?

-- BLACK BEYONCE

great point

HAY GUESS WHAT I THINK

...I need a nap, that's what.

i feel like there is a newly-minted meme i could be using here but i just can't quite put my finger on it.

The context here that is being willfully tap danced around for no discernible reason is "sometimes you will encounter black people who act in the manner described by the slur 'Uncle Tom'". This is why I said "I get what Brainwasher is saying even though I still hate that term."

lol defensive white liberals

thats interesting because ive sure as hell never encountered black people who specifically seek to appease white people myself

wtf I love these guys, please hammer don't hurt em
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4775/warrent6jd.jpg

calling that behavior 'uncle tomism' or whatever is inherently racist

This is (at least from my perspective) sort of a weird thing to say, since almost everyone I've ever seen/heard call someone an "Uncle Tom" has been black.

(Actually, the only white person I can think of who's done it has been, uh, me, when I was watching Wayne Brady in the middle of a particularly gross bit of self-abasement on "Whose Line?" some years back. I cop to this without pride, but without particular remorse, either.)

("seen/heard" = in real time, that is)

sometimes i have fun thinking of hundreds of ILXors with their finger poised over the enter key collectively thinking "nah fuck its not worth it".

those are our favorite ilxors.

I was simply asking, based on Dan's comment re: self-sabotaging appeasement behavior, if calling someone an Uncle Tom could be divorced from race, or not.

I would vote not, but I was wondering what he thought.

And then motherfuckers got all stupid.

I have a serious question, tho. What about a "Captain Ron"? You always hear people bandying it about, you know, "Captain Ron" this and "Captain Ron" that, as if it's really going to hurt anyone's feelings. I think it's an unintentional compliment, myself. "Why thank you! Yes, I am a Captain Ron!"

goddamn captain rons with their boating adventures and hawaiian shirts bring our country to its knees i tell you what

white dudes who act like pirates are the worst

ARRRRRRR you talking about me?

What about "Uncle Ruckus"?

is calling someone an Oreo better or worse then this?

Tough one. Oreos are uniformly delicious, while uncles vary widely in taste. So, there's that.

what about

FUDGE COVERED Oreos
WHITE CHOCOLATE Oreos

???

if someone called me a captain ron i'd be honored

Oreo and the variations on it for other racial groups are awful.

Hendrik Hertzberg of The New Yorker noted in his memoirs that Helms had "the 'humorous habit'" of calling all black people "Fred".

from wikipedia

-- Eisbaer, Friday, July 4, 2008 12:29 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

is calling someone an Oreo better or worse then this?

Worse. At least there was a time and place where "Uncle Tom" was a handy (though shitty) shorthand for what Dan artfully called "self-sabotaging appeasers". It's a shitty thing to say but there's at least a whiff of historical context, since people who were doing otherwise-worthwhile things were using the phrase at one time (i.e. Malcolm X, who called MLK an Uncle Tom).

thats interesting because ive sure as hell never encountered black people who specifically seek to appease white people myself

Therefore they do not exist QED CASE CLOSED

yeah oreo is definitely much worse

white people rank racial epithets like this.

no youre right pancakes there are tons of blacks who live to kiss white ass we just dont know em is all

no youre right pancakes there are tons of blacks who live to kiss white ass we just dont know em is all

Well, the problem here is that the context is different - Harriet Beecher Stowe was writing about overseers and slaves, we don't have those any more.

NOW, you want to talk about Tomming in a work or social group situation, that's a whole other thing - no less applicable, I think, but different.

An interesting thing that this makes me think is that we all, at some point or another, kiss a little ass or take a little too much abuse in order to advance/fit in/not rock the boat. So, at what point is an upwardly mobile, black professional with a white boss Tomming, instead of playing smart office politics?

M-W.com: 'Tomming' (v) - acting like a black man trying to make a white man like him

i mean id love to start a thread called MLK was an Uncle Tom & see how yall take it

he wasn't though.

Which is the main problem with the application of a term like "Uncle Tom" - no real standard analysis, past the clear-cut cases.

clear-cut cases

And Andy defines what it means to be black.

malcolm x, who was black btw, disagrees with you xps

M-W.com:Main Entry: dick·head
Pronunciation: \dik-hed\
Function: noun
Etymology: dick (penis) + head
Date: 1964
usually vulgar : a stupid or contemptible person

its a retarded offensive insult in any context

That's true. But does that mean we shouldn't try to understand the cultural underpinnings of its application?

I mean, look - I'm just trying to get in touch with my black sisters and brothers here, you know? I can't keep it real, per se, but I can appreciate keeping it real.

i mean come on malcolm x called mlk an 'uncle tom' so that somehow legitimizes it?? wtff xp

wtfffff blam

Deez, we are agreeing here, right? In our own, truncated, xposted ways?

Why not simply call someone craven and avoid the literary distraction/impotent polemics?

Yeah, just wanted to make sure...I'm over here laughing my ass off, and then I realized that my sarcasm just might not be coming through effectively.

So, yes. We are agreeing. In our own silly little way.

Doesn't avoiding the literary connotations/polemicized implications take a lot of the sting out of the insult?

I mean, I wouldn't use something of this nuclear variety unless I damn sure wanted a fight.

^^^^^this (another reason why the term sucks)

So, to answer your question, Mr. Perry -

People who use the phrase "Uncle Tom" should, and probably will, be beaten senseless.

i mean come on malcolm x called mlk an 'uncle tom' so that somehow legitimizes it?? wtff

It doesn't legitimize it, but it implies a context within which the opinion of $RANDOM_WHITE_DUDE becomes kind of irrelevant.

It doesn't legitimize it, but it implies a context within which the opinion of $RANDOM_WHITE_DUDE becomes kind of irrelevant.

You mean like the special 60s black leader meetings?

yeah youre right a famous black guy said it stupidly therefore its not stupid xp

$RANDOM_WHITE_DUDE's last mixtape was fire

freedom is a road seldom travelled by $RANDOM_WHITE_DUDE

No, I mean that white dudes probably should treat very lightly when they start critiquing (say) Malcolm X's opinions on race, even implicitly or indirectly, i.e. when deeznuts said that "calling that behavior 'uncle tomism' or whatever is inherently racist". I'm not sure that their opinions are likely to be particularly welcome/needed/whatever.

$RANDOM_WHITE_DUDE's just another word for nothin' left to lose

treat = tread, obviously

though I like "treat", somehow

malcolm x should maybe have tread a bit more lightly when critiquing mlk's opinions on race

No, I mean that white dudes probably should treat very lightly when they start critiquing (say) Malcolm X's opinions on race, even implicitly or indirectly, i.e. when deeznuts said that "calling that behavior 'uncle tomism' or whatever is inherently racist". I'm not sure that their opinions are likely to be particularly welcome/needed/whatever.

this makes kind of no sense at all.

i mean from a purely logic/rhetoric standpoint, for one

Be more specific?

For one, don't discount me from taking part in some discourse, and at least trust that I will attempt to fully inform myself before making any comments.

he's saying because deeznuts is white his opinion should not matter to blacks xp

People are less intelligent when they self-limit like that.

And what is the internet but a place where I can express ANY opinion on ANYTHING without fear of real repercussions?

Damn.

More like deeznuts, as a white dude, should maybe rethink things if he finds himself saying that something Malcolm X did is "racist", even by accident -- as you're doing if you say something is "inherently racist".

Or, as I said (or at least implied) earlier, I'm not sure I feel comfortable attributing racism to things said in the course of internecine warfare within the black community -- and even if I did, I'm not sure that my opinion wouldn't better be kept to myself.

AIMURCHIE KEEP SAYING NOTHING

racism is idiocy is calling mlk an uncle tom

i have no problem w/ what i said xp

im saying what malcolm x said about mlk is retarded

if you disagree you better have more ammo that 'he's a black man'

well yeah it's retarded but it's his fucking opinion and he was entitled to it at the point (FYI he later apologized)

dan you must've known this wasn't gonna turn out well

does this mean that as long as we agree that Rev. Jesse Jackson has done a great deal of good in this world we can start using "Hymietown" without it having racist overtones?

xposts, again

well yeah it's retarded but it's his fucking opinion and he was entitled to it at the point (FYI he later apologized)

-- The Brainwasher

ok if he apologized y did he apologize? because IT WAS RETARDED

QED

this thread is so stupid, what exactly are you bitching about?

(note: what i am doing here is indicating, per request, why i think your argument is not sound. Personally, I think Hymietown sounds silly)

xxpost

No, my ammo is more like "white dudes should consider shutting the fuck up over whether Malcolm X said something 'racist', and about attributing racism to internecine black conflict in general; if you wouldn't say it in real life, to the faces of your black friends ('But I have lots of black friends!'), then keep it to yourself".

xposts

I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit, but still.

1) I don't necessarily agree that The Reverend Jesse Jackson has done a whole lot of good in this world;
2) Hymietown had to do with Jews, not fellow blacks,

Ergo, not an applicable analogy.

I'm not arguing that what Malcolm X said was OK -- I don't agree with it at all, and I think it sucks. But if you call something "inherently racist", and find out that Malcolm X said it, and you're a white dude, some backpedaling might be in order.

And do you really think that an argument between a leading figure of the Nation of Islam and the groups of which MLK was considered a leader (no convenient shorthand!!!) can appropriately be called internecine?

I would say that, apart from their skin colors, those two were WIDELY disparate and not similar at all.

um, they had pretty much the same goal in mind, they just had different approaches

strangely enough the authority on what white people can say about black people talking about other black people is a white person.

Yeah, where IS Ethan?

Whether or not "internecine" is an appropriate word, I think that there's every reason for white folks to hesitate when they find themselves about to describe something a black leader said about another black leader as "racist".

Not trying to set myself up as an authority, just suggesting that STFU is a good principle to follow.

fucking hell, everyone

um, they had pretty much the same goal in mind, they just had different approaches

Keep in mind your timeframe here:

At the time Malcom called Martin an Uncle Tom, he was a strong adherent of the Nation of Islam's separatist philosophy. Martin Luther King never espouses such a philosophy.

From there, you can see that they were not looking for anything close to the same thing.

From there, you can see that they were not looking for anything close to the same thing.

Yeah, I was going to say...

Unless physical harm is a possibility, shutting the fuck up is NEVER a good option.

Unless my wife is involved, then I will shut the fuck up when she tells me I should shut the fuck up. But she's smarter than me.

so charlie is arguing that i should backpedal because a black dude said something i as a whitey disagree with? does it matter who's spouting racially motivated bullshit as long as its racially motivated bullshit? like, get back on topic dude xpsssssss

in some ways this turned out better beyond my wildest dreams

ok chaz i will never talk about people who have darker skin than i do again because it is not fair (dickhead)

oh shit, discord on a race thread?!!

Malcom called Martin an Uncle Tom

I keep misreading this as "Marvin the Martian and Uncle Tom", which is probably Warner Brothers' response to this.

xposts

so charlie is arguing that i should backpedal because a black dude said something i as a whitey disagree with? does it matter who's spouting racially motivated bullshit as long as its racially motivated bullshit?

Yes, if it's Malcolm X, you goddamn dipshit

Har, Dan. (xposts)

Well yes they were looking for the same thing, as I said they had different approaches but the ultimate goal was black solidarity, equality, prosperity, etc.

just checked, nothing about a "mercy lock" in the faq. oh well.

there was an idealogical difference but they shared a common goal is my point

i forgot the part where malcolm x was our lord & savior & mlk was satan

Buy anyway the point is who gives a fuck about what you think about what black people may or may not call other black people

Dan had a dream too!

a dream about Tyra Banks animated gifs

Let me take you to
Hymentown.

folks let me spell this out for you im trying to dictate what black people can & can not say because i disagree with something a black person said

I see nuts got there before us.

Buy anyway the point is who gives a fuck about what you think about what black people may or may not call other black people

This is actually a very, very good point.

Respect the ability of a group to self segregate. Its kind of an important thing, and is protected by the Constitution.

we need to determine the intersection point of "phrases malcolm x used" and "words and phrases that are indeterminately racist" on a venn diagram before we go any further guys, at which point this should be a cakewalk.

anyway the point is who gives a fuck about what you think about what black people may or may not call other black people

ding ding ding ding ding ding

xpost I'm not sure if I want to go there

(I wish I were talking about Hymentown)

xxpost Not a cakewalk!! Anything but that!

(Can we substitute "inherently" for "indeterminately"?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk

hahahaha DP

Exactly!!

If he ever said nigger while referring to a white person, that was racist.

if malcolm x was still alive we could just go and see what bottle opener he had in his kitchen and get that one taken care of too.

Coming up soon: British ILXors post on how Gandhi wasn't a good Hindu.

^^ good thread

evil universe: "Black hole" is racist in Dallas

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dallas-county-meeting-turns-ra.html

Fuck. I expect to see that story fwd: fwd: fwd to me from the same senders who got their panties in a huff over the congresswoman saying that hurricanes should have black names.

RACISM GOES BOTH WAYS!

Black names?

You mean like Martin and Malcolm?

SEE KORAN CHAPETER 9:11

The form was originally known as the chalk line walk; it takes its name from competitions slaveholders sometimes held, in which they offered slices of hoecake as prizes for the best dancers.

really can't get past this

ILX is GREAT today : D

great thread

):((((

also can't get past the "black hole" story for completely different reasons

it's not "Brer Rabbit and the Black Hole" dumbasses, stfu

pride is one of the seven deadly sins deez

i alreaday took sloth as mine yo

I'll take rage.

http://selfhelpdaily.com/snow-white-and-the-seven-deadly-sins/

Third or fourth GIS result for "rage"

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/09/roadRageMEN_600x486.jpg

Fuck. I meant I'll take "wrath."

Fourth or fifth GIS result for "wrath."

http://santiago.mapache.org/art/desktop/wrath.jpeg

http://www.miguelmartindesign.com/sfcccinema/images/st2.jpg

That does look angry. Like a tiger. Grrrr.

xpost

http://www.fotoil.com/Images/sloth2-r3-wm.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Remember this classic?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5rYT4PpIfAQ

Did anyone figure out what the hell Morbius meant upthread by "DNFAW"?

Do Not Fuck A Wallaby?

This is why you should listen to your elders. They have experience.

Did anyone figure out what the hell Morbius meant upthread by "DNFAW"?

Yes.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol who's reppin' for the douchebags

"How is my son?"
"Oh fine, Uncle Tom. Fine."
"Uncle Tom?"
"That's short for 'Pappy'!"

Mid-nineteenth century sentimental literature tragic death t/s -- Uncle Tom vs. Little Nell

-- Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 17:26 (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

vs. Ilyusha in Brothers Karamazov.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3226

Long ago, and basing his insight on the Garnett translation, Aldous Huxley pointed out that Dostoevsky's immense superiority over Dickens in describing heart-rending scenes, like the death of the child Ilyusha, lay in his eye for heterogeneous details of all sorts: Ilyusha's worn little boots, neatly arranged side by side by the woman who has come to lay out the dead boy, the doctor's "sealskin hat with its sealskin visor," and so forth. When he did the death of Little Nell, in The Old Curiosity Shop, Dickens abandoned all such incongruities entirely, as inappropriate to the pure sentiment he wished to put across.

Seems an appropriate place for one of my favorite Wilde quotes: "One would have to have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell without laughing."

^ cosign on THAT