POLL: Best Tim Burton film

Sleepy Hollow is perfect in every way. Edward Scissorhands runs it a close second. He won't be remembered for Planet of the Apes, though.

wow I had forgotten that I'd seen most of his movies

Of the ones I've seen, the only one that I harbor ill will towards is Planet Of The Apes.

It is horrible. So is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, thought not so much.

Ed Wood is my favourite by a mile. I often think of the "one more step down into the cellar of indignity" look on Martin Landau's face as he prepares to wrestle with that octopus.

It's either Ed Wood or Mars Attacks!, followed by Todd and Batman.

Big Fish is hideous.

I liked what he tried to do with Charlie... even though it wasn't really successful.

Haven't seen: Vincent, Frankenweenie, Ed Wood, Big Fish, Corpse Bride

Pee-wee, Edward, Ed Wood, maybe Beetlejuice. I have a feeling Batman would seem kinda lame after Nolan/Bale.

i somehow managed to never see ed wood, I think because it wasn't on dvd for ages. also haven't seen vincent or frankenweenie. I have a feeling that everything b/w 96 and 2005 is pretty bad; I remember really hating Sleepy Hollow, but now I don't remember why. Big Fish just seemed like his "Fisher King". Charlie is really, really bad. But I'm inclined to vote for Sweeney Todd because it was so much better than I thought it would be.

i kind of liked the charlie and the chocolate factory remake. i saw it on the amtrak train.

either pee-wee or beetlejuice

Ed Wood is my favourite by a mile.

Mine too. Such a generous-spirited film with universally perfect performances. No one vote for Big Fish, it's rubbish.

You know what annoys me? When people describe Burton's films as 'dark'. He's obviously a big softie with a fetish for gothic window dressing.

Haven't got around to watching Big Fish but the fact that Spalding Gray killed himself after watching it doesn't bode well.

edward scissorhands brings me to tears every time

I have a feeling Batman would seem kinda lame after Nolan/Bale.

Wonderful production design (obviously), but a wafer-thin plot.

have a feeling Batman would seem kinda lame after Nolan/Bale.

-- ledge, 11 July 2008 14:28 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

no, what?

xpost no, what?

I have a feeling nothing would seem kinda lame after Nolan/Bale.

bale can't hold a candle to michael keaton's batman/wayne.

I think the production design would suffer most actually, at the time it seemed dark and fitting but now it would look ridiculously obviously Burton. And I'm not sure I was ever that keen on Nicholson's hammy Joker.

yeah, why would anyone ham it up playing THE JOKER? Jesus.

Wow. Most of these movies are crap. And long!

Beetlejuice.

There's all different kinds of ham. Some ham is better than others.

Christian Bale is terrible! When he assumes the I-am-Batman stentorian, it's like watching a kindergarten student play adult with a pencil mustache.

Morbius mostly otm above but Pee-Wee ftw

Wow. Most of these movies are crap. And long!

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 11 July 2008 15:40 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

^^^ridin' the truth pony

Burton's second Batman is still way better than Nolan/Bale, it's one of the best superhero movies in general. The first one is kinda patchy, admittedly.

bale's "serious batman" voice put me off right through the movie, and may well stop me from seeing the sequel all by itself.

i think the first batman is better than the second, though.

Bale is the best naked Batman (Val Kilmer close).

Other then the 4 I named (and I like the first Batman mostly for Jack and Gotham), Alfred is right; Burton is more tripe than ham.

I prefer his Apes to what (at the time, I haven't rewatched) seemed to be the emo misogyny of Edward Scissorhands.

Pee-wee has a great opening 15 minutes.

Batman Returns is so MEAN! Not much besides Pfeiffer.

Batman Begins might've been as good as Batman Returns if it hadn't taken itself too seriously. I hope the new one doesn't still follow Frank Miller's example in thinking Batman should be "realistic" and "gritty" and "psychological" like Dirty Harry or Death Wish or something.

Ed Wood pretty far ahead of the other good ones (Pee Wee's, Edward Scissorhands, Mars Attacks)

I mean, Batman Begins is still quite "dark", especially compared to the Adam West Batman (not that I have anything against it), but in a way that suits the genre better.

(x-post)

xposts to tuomas- well, better all of those things than we get another schumacher style effort.

ed wood. martin landau is totally great in it and bill murray steals every single scene he's in. "mexico was.... a nightmare."

re-watched this recently thinking I probably wouldn't like this as much as I used to... definitely not!

second place is probably beetlejuice or batman or something.

I liked Schumacher's first Batman! He did the campy superhero thing very well, I think. Never saw the second one though.

emo misogyny of Edward Scissorhands

I can't quite figure out where this is coming from. Diane Wiest is clearly the moral center of the film, and the most sympathetic character

You know what annoys me? When people describe Burton's films as 'dark'. He's obviously a big softie with a fetish for gothic window dressing.

^^this. Seen every single one... Planet of the Apes, Big Fish and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory are all awful but I pretty much like/love everything else. Ed Wood and Scissorhands are his best I think, but gonna go with Nightmare before Christmas - it's a little ruined by all the emo kids sporting Jack Skellington merch these days, but I must have seen it a billion times as a kid and love it a lot still.

I mean, if you have a story about a man dressed up as a bat fighting equally ludicrous villains, there's no reason you can't play up the camp aspect, even if it upsets Frank Miller fans.

(xx-post)

the campiness has been done to death though.

Simone: I know you're right, Pee-wee, but...
Pee-wee: Everyone I know has a big "But...? C'mon, Simone, let's talk about *your* big "But".

I'm gonna vote Nightmare Before Christmas too. It's the single most perfect film in his filmography, even if you're not a goth. Though half of the glory should go to Henry Selick, obviously.

scissorhands is really cloying and condescending. i didn't even like nightmare before christmas at the time, but now i don't remember why -- the ragdoll love interest bs maybe? i have not seen ed wood or sweeney todd, and i'm betting those are among his best

much rather watch the nolan batman at this point

the campiness has been done to death though.

Really? When Batman Forever came out, the "dark" Batman had been the predominant one for about 10-20 years.

I like Pee Wee better, but Beetlejuice is a better "Time Burton film".

so what is about Tim Burton that inspires long threads?

I like a lot of these, don't know if I love any of them (Big Fish was OK, not sure what people hated about it). Voted for Beetlejuice, narrowly over Pee Wee, Batman, Nightmare and Scissorhands.

re campiness vs "grit" options: that's why there shouldn't be Batman films, period.

Shakey, I dunno, I remember Wiest just coming off like a harpy.

Long threads about glitzy, overrated juvenilia-oriented filmmakers are inevitable, Alfred.

I agree with Shakey: Wiest is the best thing in Scissorhands.

When Batman Forever came out, the "dark" Batman had been the predominant one for about 10-20 years.

not 20 years....there had been the two burton films, which were kind of dark, and the comics after the Dark Knight (including Alan Moore's Killing Joke), but there had been 30 years of light comics, the tv series, the cartoon.....

i quite enjoyed Planet Of The Apes - don't get the hate

i'd forgotten that burton was behind ed wood and mars attacks.

i agree with uncle tuomas, dark batman is more played out at this point. i didn't give a chance when it came out, but after watching a bunch of youtube clips recently (i think there was a thread?) i was like "this shit's hilarious!".

Shakey, I dunno, I remember Wiest just coming off like a harpy.

?? She brings Edward home cuz she's worried that he's all alone with no one to take care of him, she tries to integrate him into her family, she defends him when everyone else turns against him... she's totally the idealized Avon Lady, all sweetness and light and naivete, except its genuine.

not 20 years....there had been the two burton films, which were kind of dark, and the comics after the Dark Knight (including Alan Moore's Killing Joke), but there had been 30 years of light comics, the tv series, the cartoon.....

I thought Batman comics already began to turn dark in the seventies (after the campy sixties) with Denny O'Neil and co. Anyway, in 1995 the dark and gritty way of doing Batman had been basically the only way for about 10 years, so Batman Forever felt kinda fresh compared to that.

its important to note that public perception of Batman and the comic-fans' perception of Batman vary widely according to what movies are in circulation.

(ie most of the general public does not read comics and has no desire to nor any interest in how a character's tone may have changed)

so what is about Tim Burton that inspires long threads?

no one can agree on whether he's a good/great director with a distinctive visual style or a one-note hack.

Batman had been basically the only way for about 10 years, so Batman Forever felt kinda fresh compared to that.

-- Tuomas, 11 July 2008 15:06 (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

but, crucially, it was shit.

that's a false dichotomy, no? He's a director wih a flair for the theatrical who, had he been born in the 19th century, would have staged operas.

(xpost)

i feel like every single time the topic of comic book/superhero movies comes up, tuomas bitches that they aren't campy enough and they all should be campy, like it's the frickin mermaid parade at marvel/dc or something.

dr. m, see edward scissorhands again because your description makes it sound like you have never seen it, at all.

^^^^so OTM

Watched some of Batman Returns last night, what a mess, it seemed interminable.

Anyway, Beetlejuice or Ed Wood for me.

xxxpost yeah i guess but he's also made too many different kinds of movies - all very Burton-esque but all different enough that it also becomes difficult to say "you either like his schtick or you don't".

I don't think all superhero movies should be campy, but I don't think they should try to tackle "real world" issues either, like Batman Begins tried to do. It just doesn't work. Superhero stories are a fantasy genre, and while adding some realism and grittiness to fantasy can give you interesting results, if you overdo it it's bound to get stupid. Read DC's Identity Crisis for proof.

What real world issues did Batman Begins try and tackle? It was still self-conciously pulp, just pulp of a very different tone to the Schumacher abortions.

Could someone point out the Burtonesque qualities of Planet of the Apes, or is "unapologetic blockbustery shittiness" a reoccurring motif in his ouevre? (Do not say it was Ape Lincoln.)

xpost -- I'm gonna try some reverse psych hoodoo and say "oh PLEASE feed the oblivious albeit well-intentioned Finnish funny book troll, especially when he's holding court on shit he's probably versed himself on via Wikipedia and his phonebooth"

I don't want to go back to this, because we had a massive debate about Batman Begins when it came out. But if you want to read my opinions on it, you can check the original thread starting from here

(x-post)

yeah this campy vs. serious Batman argument already blights numerous threads must it ruin this one too

it's hard to hate dying chimp Heston clutching his gun.

I think this is probably the most relevant post:

I saw Batman Begins last Friday, and while I did enjoy it, I have to say that after all the positive reviews I was somewhat disappointed. Let me eleaborate why...

First of all, let me state that I do not hate fun. I belong to the minority of people who actually thought Batman Forever was a good film, due to it's deliberate camp and playfulness. (I never saw Batman and Robin, so I have no comments on that.) But I do think there's room for dark and serious interpretations of Batman as well; if any superhero deserves them, it is Batman. However, if you choose the serious road, you have to accept all the baggage that comes with it. With Batman Returns Tim Burton found a great balance between darkness and playfulness, so that the film was serious enough not to be camp, but not serious enough to feel "real". It was a modern fairy tale, and one of the great things Burton did there was to focus as much on the villains as on Batman. Batman Begins, on the other hand, puts the focus pretty much on Bruce Wayne, and chooses seriousness over play and fantasy, and that is where both it's strengths and weaknesesses stem from.

I like how Batman's origin story was told to such great detail. His motivations, his history, his inner conflicts; watching all this unfold was extremely enjoyable. Similarly, the scenes which dealt with the practicalities of becoming Batman - preparing the equipment, the suit, the Batcave - where among the best in the film. Batman's story, however, is essentially a revenge story, and this where the film's seriousness betrayed it. In general, superheroes are vigilantes, and so is Batman. Vigilantism is extremely problematic, but most superhero stories sidestep the issue one way or another. It is exactly because these stories are non-realistic that they make the audience forget the more serious implications of superheroics. But because Batman Begins is such a serious film, it doesn't ignore the problem of vigilantism but tries to tackle it full-on.

The Batman of the film is not "pure" hero but a violent avenger. He lets Ducard fall to his death and does nothing to save him. Some would say that doesn't make him a killer, but remember that he himself asked Gordon to shoot the monorail down. So he is, in essence, responsible for Ducard's death. Also, earlier in the film it looked pretty clear that Bruce Wayne was about to shoot the guy who killed his parents, despite the fact that the killer repented. However, the film cleverly dodged the question whether he would've done it or not by letting someone else shoot the guy. In addition to that, during the car chase scene Batman endangers the lives of several innocent policemen by crashing their cars. For a while I thought the film was really gonna show Batman as a not-so-respectable character after all, since the shooting scene was followed by Katie Holmes saying, "Your father would've been ashamed of you!" (spot on!), and the car chase caused Alfred to chastise Bruce for not caring about other people's safety. But those threads led nowhere, and in the end Batman was supposed to have been a triumphant hero, even though he had both literal and metaphorical blood on his hands.

The problem with the serious approach to superheroics is that in the real world most folks would not like the idea of a superhero taking justice into his own hands. Of all the revisionist superhero writers only Alan Moore seems to have realized this: in his Watchmen citizens protest against superheroes. Non-revisionist superhero stories, such as the two Spider-Man films, are able to sidestep politics exactly because they are so clearly non-realistic, and because they focus on other issues than revenge and vigilantism. Batman Begins, on the other hand, has the same exact as flaw as Dark Knight Returns. The Miller comic was the first Batman story to say, "Take me seriously!", but what if you did so? You found out all the vigilantist, downright fascist implications a "realist" superhero story has. And the same applies to Batman Begins, even though it doesn't hold it's right-wing sympathies on it's sleeve as visibly as Miller does.

Funnily enough, as serious as the story of Bruce Wayne was, the same didn't seem to apply to his opponents. Liam Neeson played Ducard with all the sternness of a drama actor, not realizing that that was in direct conflict with how ridiculous, downright goofy, the whole idea of the League of Shadows, it's goals and ways of getting there was. That was another major flaw in the film: Neeson simply wasn't a good villain. He was too solemn, too little over-the-top for that. And he didn't even have a costume. Cilian Murphy's Scarecrow would've been a much better main villain, but he was given precious little screen time. In fact, I think the film wouldn't have needed a villain at all. The whole "Gotham is in danger, can Batman save it?" latter part of the film felt too short, lame, and kinda tacked on, when the main focus was on Batman's origin story anyway. Ideally, the film should've presented only the origin story, so that it would've ended when we see Batman in costume for the first time. But I guess the big showdown at the end was necessary for commercial viability.

Summa summarum: Batman Begins was an interesting enough reintroduction to the character of Batman, hopefully the sequels can offer us better villains and less dodgy politics.

-- Tuomas (Tuomas), 2. elokuuta 2005 19:12 (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

(xx-post)

i thought Batman Returns was boring, apart from Michelle Pfeiffer saying 'Miaow'. 90s minutes of that etc.

btw re Burton-as-sweetie, Mars Attacks! is one of the most misanthropic films to ever come out of Hollywood. I love it so.

First of all, let me state that I do not hate fun.

batman returns is pretty campy to me.

It is, but in a "dark" way rather than candy-coloured, like Batman Forever.

but some candy is dark coloured uh

Batman Returns definitely holds its own. Every time I see it, I thoroughly enjoy it (and I do think it wears camp firmly on its sleeve; Tuomas, you don't seem to think anything can be campy without being dayglo).

Is Corpse Bride worth seeing?

^^Worth it but it won't be like, groundbreaking.
I think Planet will be remembered but mostly because of the scarring potential for monkey/human sex in such a PG-ish film. But I did still like the film.
Also I agree with Shakey Mo, we do not need to descend into Batman quibbles all the time, can we just say I like 'Batman (insert) why? fuck you thats why?' and go about our business? This isn't a thread solely about the Batman franchise.
Could someone point out the Burtonesque qualities of Planet of the Apes, or is "unapologetic blockbustery shittiness" a reoccurring motif in his ouevre? (Do not say it was Ape Lincoln.)
There were some elements of 'classic Burton' in the style themes of the movie but to be honest he may have thought a story about apes that can speak (ENGLISH no less) was weird enough for him to get away with using as little 'Burtonesque' qualities and making some extra moolah while still maintaining his credibility as being a bit of a nutter. I think he was blatantly phoneing it in on this flick.
I voted Beetlejuice...am having regrets...couldn't decide between Mars Attacks! and Edward Scissorhands.

xp It's aight...sweet and funny enough but not great - none of the songs are half as good as the ones from TNBC or even from the Charlie remake.

why the hell does batman need to be candy-colored??! batman is a scientist, not ethel merman in gypsy!

lolz

xp: I know!
http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/050609/173541__tv_l.jpg
Then my friend said; 'Holy overweight strippers batman'
FAIL.

batman is a scientist, not ethel merman in gypsy!

here's hoping for that long-awaited Newsies nod

I think Ed Wood almost lives up to its ludicrously high reputation, and Pee-Wee is fun, but Beetlejuice all the way.

http://www.chromewaves.net/images/interface/20061020batmanVsWolverine.jpg

Batman
(Speaking) Finish? We're just beginning and there's no one to stop at this time!
I had a dream, a dream about you, baby.
It's gonna come true, baby.
They think that we're through, but baby,

You'll be swell! You'll be great!
Gonna have the whole world on the plate!
Starting here, starting now,
honey, everything's coming up roses!

Clear the decks! Clear the tracks!
You've got nothing to do but relax.
Blow a kiss. Take a bow.
Honey, everything's coming up roses!

Now's your inning. Stand the world on it's ear!
Set it spinning! That'll be just the beginning!
Curtain up! Light the lights!
You got nothing to hit but the heights!
You'll be swell. You'll be great.
I can tell. Just you wait.
That lucky star I talk about is due!
Honey, everything's coming up roses for me and for you!

You can do it, all you need is a hand.
We can do it, Mama is gonna see to it!
Curtain up! Light the lights!
We got nothing to hit but the heights!
I can tell, wait and see.
There's the bell! Follow me!
And nothing's gonna stop us 'til we're through!
Honey, everything's coming up roses and daffodils!
Everything's coming up sunshine and Santa Claus!
Everything's gonna be bright lights and lollipops!
Everything's coming up roses for me and for you!

the scarring potential for monkey/human sex in such a PG-ish film

really? wow, i do not remember a single thing about that movie.

lucky fucking bitch

best line in his oeuvre is Sylvia Sidney's: "hahaha, they blew up Congress!"

there was a Broadway Superman musical in the '60s.

Is Corpse Bride worth seeing?

nope.

Dan wants to have sex with a monkey?

xp: yes.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27130325064

thank god for "xp", there was almost an unnecessary fight up in here

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_8892~Planet-of-the-Apes-Posters.jpg
EW. At least in the remake Marky Mark was clothed.

Ed Wood

Nightmare Before Christmas is well overrated.

^^^ for realz - its good (and a lot of the best parts of it I think should be credited to Selick and not Burton) but it definitely overstays its welcome and misses some notes (ie totally unnecessary and unconvincing love subplot)

Isn't Nightmare only 70 minutes long????

this is shakey's welcome were talking here

i haven't seen half of these, but i'm voting for pee-wee anyway.

Pee-Wee one is far and away the funniest and probably the most fun... Ed Wood is great and still his best, but probably because it splits the difference between maudlin/sappy Burton and goofiness.

Pee-Wee has a bunch of my favorite production fuckups in it though, the "effects" in that are super homemade. I remember how in the nighttime road shots with the signs going by, the traintrack for pulling the signs towards the camera to create the illusion of motion is clearly in-frame.

ie, GOOD EFFECTS.

exactly

effects in Pee Wee much more enjoyable than all that eyeball melting crap in C&C Shit Factory

best to worst

1985 Pee-wee's Big Adventure
1990 Edward Scissorhands
1992 Batman Returns
1988 Beetlejuice
1999 Sleepy Hollow (looks great but wtf is up with the plot)
1993 The Nightmare Before Christmas
1994 Ed Wood
2007 Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
1996 Mars Attacks!
1984 Frankenweenie

big drop here

1989 Batman
2005 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
2005 Corpse Bride (terrible songs sink it)
2001 Planet of the Apes

Unseen by me
1982 Vincent
2003 Big Fish

sleepy hollow would have been really awesome if it didn't have that bullshit script and if johnny depp didn't ham it up poorly

the first batman was ok when i was 12 but i dunno anymore, it's such a mess and really poorly constructed. the only thing i remember now with any clarity is jack nicholson dancing to prince.

yeah 'sleepy hollow' seems really excited to get into that three way reason vs religion vs lady witchy stuff fite but it's pretty dim and clunky. i'm a sucker for that kind of 'debates in western culture' stuff in movies (cf master and commander and lol the nolan batman) but that was just no good

the only thing i remember now with any clarity is jack nicholson dancing to prince.

the entire movie is basically that, so it makes sense that this is all you remember.

Prince Batman sdtk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Burton Batman movie

y'all sleepin' on Arli$$ dood in first Batman

Ed Wood is his only great movie.

tru, schef

C&C Shit Factory

dun dun dun dun EVERYBODY SHIT NOW

Lots of great films, a few iffy ones and a couple of clunkers. Ed Wood is far and away my favourite. I kind of wish he'd got better singers to do Sweeney Todd but maybe I'm wrong.

Don't care what any of you fuX0rs have to say, Big Fish is one of my favorite movies of the last 10 years.

I bet it was Tim Russert's too

Maybe, who knows. ;)

(ie totally unnecessary and unconvincing love subplot)

This is totally the sweetest thing in the whole movie!

sweet /= good

unless Dianne Wiest's involved.

Sweet is good, in animation especially. Plus Skellington would be kinda boring without Sally, it's not like the romance subplot is tacked on or anything when it takes like 1/4 of the movie.

its unconvincing cuz for the first 75% of the movie he never even notices or acknowledges her and then at the end is all "oh yeah, you! I love you!"

Lame.

I really wanted to say Pee Wee but I'm giving it to Beetlejuice.

It's so sad how much potential Burton has... and he let's the studios squander it almost every time.

He should just start art directing other people's films...

i think scissorhands is sort of the purest tim burton movie. whoever said softie-with-goth-window-dressing was mostly otm, except that that sort of overlooks how swoony-romantic the whole goth thing is to start with. ed wood is more defensible on artistic grounds or whatever, and i like it a lot. but it's also a little self-consciously arty, where edward scissorhands isn't self-conscious at all. also, i think batman returns is the best batman movie anyone's made, by a large margin. (which isn't saying much, since almost all the rest of them are terrible.) still haven't seen sweeney todd.

the first batman was ok when i was 12 but i dunno anymore, it's such a mess and really poorly constructed

otm. it's a great-looking movie, there's some memorable lines, a few funny scenes with jack hamming it up and keaton's fairly convincing, but the script is just bad.

i don't get the cult of batman returns. i guess a movie with penguins carrying rockets on their backs can't be all bad, but still.

I'm the only SOB who embraces the Mars Attacks vision of a world populated only by teens, bimbos, old ladies and Tom Jones?

loved Ed Wood and Big Fish, voted for the latter, it being the underdog. :) even a Pearl Jam song worked there.

i don't get the cult of batman returns. i guess a movie with penguins carrying rockets on their backs can't be all bad, but still.

for me it's the only one that's really stylistically and narratively coherent. it feels like it takes place in a consistently imagined world (as opposed to the first one and also batman begins, where i think gotham city seems like a theme park), and the tone is the most successful balance of mordant jokiness.

plus...

http://images.wikia.com/openserving/entertainment/images/thumb/7/79/MichellePfeifferCatwoman.jpg/350px-MichellePfeifferCatwoman.jpg

I voted for Ed Wood.

Also in contention: Pee Wee, Beetlejuice

torn between Edward Scissorhands and Beetlejuice

^^^ yep. points for pee wee and i need to see ed wood again

Beetlejuice, but only by a nose because it was the first Burton film I ever saw. Closely followed by Ed Wood, Nightmare Before Christmas, Pee Wee, Mars Attacks and Sweeney Todd.

Ed Wood is great, one of my favorite movies, but I voted Pee Wee.

I guess because Pee Wee has a kind of renegade filmmaking feel to it, kind of a no-budget recklessness. And it's deeply odd. And funny as heckfire.

I have disliked this guy for many years, but am nearly convinced to give Sweeney Todd a try. Sondheim, ya dig?

I fell asleep.

same answer as kenan. i like ed wood an awful lot and batman returns is perversely awesome (if not necessarily v. good) but pee-wee is the only one i couldn't do without.

i love pee-wee and burton was the perfect guy to do it, but i think it's shortchanging paul reubens a little to call it a "tim burton movie." i think of beetlejuice as the first real tim burton movie.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

pee-wee was co-written by phil hartman!!

Well sure, he's Cap'n Carl!

He's in it, too, for like three seconds.

"Ed Wood" for me, but I still think Depp almost ruins it. I think he's the most overrated underrated actor ever. He plays it way broad in "Ed Wood," but the great script saves it.

I kind of wish one of the Larry Karaszewski/Scott Alexander movies had taken off and been a hit; I love the offbeat biopic subgenre. They had about 25 different ones in various stages of development for a moment there.

Yeah, biopics are way better when their subject is someone the general public doesn't have much knowledge of. They also tend to be better when they're really quite heavily fictionalised, like EW is.

or like all the old Hollywood ones?

or like all the old Hollywood ones?

Otherwise, they're documentaries, kidz.

I mean, like the one where Cary Grant played Cole Porter as straight.

I went as Lydia Deetz for Halloween one year. lol high schoole gothics

btw when will this be made into a Batmovie?

http://brainiedeal.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/batman.jpg

man 70s DC comics were so great

I like that Ringo equiv s hungover and in some ill-fitting track jacket.

Also that there's an UNMARKED GRAVE right there.

I thought I would've gone for Mars Attacks!. But I saw it again recently and the nihilism turned me off (not 100% certain why either - maybe because the nihilism felt privileged or uncommitted?). So I'm giving up to my man Pee-wee and even there it's just to say that I think Big Top Pee-wee is underrated (I was cackling within two minutes at that Lincoln bit...megatons of lolz to be had there).

In general, Nate OTM here:

It's so sad how much potential Burton has... and he let's the studios squander it almost every time.

He should just start art directing other people's films...

P.S. I had absolutely no clue that Burton did the Apes remake until this very second.

Nightmare was my pick, narrowly beating Ed Wood and Beetlejuice. Ed Wood being his last decent movie.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Justice.

What happened to the Batman Returns lobby?

as part of that lobby, my opinion is that Batman Returns is the better of his Batman films (and one of the better Hollywood superhero films in general) but it is nowhere near the top three as polled here.

no wait Beetlejuice is pretty lame - Edward Scissorhands should be no. 3

next for him, Alice in Wonderland:

http://www.cinematical.com/2008/07/24/tim-burton-casts-alice/

sounds fucking horrible

hahaha

the '30s version isn't bad, esp WC Fields as Humpty Dumpty

"Ed Wood" for me, but I still think Depp almost ruins it.

Painfully OTM

Wow, so close to an upset I could really endorse.

It really really really bugs me that he just can't deal with original material - almost everything he does is a shitty remake done in "the Tim Burton style". so boring.

like I don't even need to see this Alice in Wonderland (or C&C Shit Factory, or Planet of the Chimpwives, or Sweeney Todd) because I can already picture exactly what it will look and sound like.

Oh good, the world needs another goth Alice in Wonderland.

there are so many versions already (and none of them really hit it out of the park - altho each has their moments I guess)

Nothing can compare to the wonder that is American McGee's Alice.

This is the only film version you need

xpost lol Dan I was specifically thinking of that load of old bollocks when I said another goth Alice.

hahaha

http://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1185027/article_images/sammydavisjr.asthecaterpillar.jpg

^^^Sammy Davis Jr

That is the only Alice in Wonderland you need. The one with Carol Channing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DrjIVhIeGnw

She was FUCKING DEMENTED in that. That whole psycho song about jam... yikes.

XPOST HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think there was an X-rated musical one in the '70s.

I have seen it - its pretty softcore, fun for what it is

I like Carol Channing fine but for fuck's sake that Alice is HORRIBLE.

The girl I mean, haven't seen the film.

I remember there were NYC RADIO ads for the porn musical back then! Imagine that happening under our New Puritanism...

I don't remember this poll happening, but I'm pleased ILX chose the correct winner.

Would've had Scissorhands higher, it's certainly better than Batman and Mars Attacks.

was just thinking that, looking again.

Never seen Ed Wood. I think I would have had to vote Scissorhands. I have a real soft spot for that movie.

earning myself 22 sb's, but i dunno would i have it in his top 3. depp is very very good in it though.

sleepy hollow his most complete effort imo

Listen to your internet peers and watch Ed Wood.

xpost

I'd say EW and ES are his most emotionally engaged films by far.

I also love Beetlejuice which I've seen at least 20 times. I feel like it was always on TV when I was a kid.

ps - this was a friend's Halloween costume last year:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs031.snc4/33905_1557193062224_1607181715_1322990_1484390_n.jpg

sorry to ruin ur internet peers line chap :(

yeah, i'd agree with you on 'emotionally engaged' but for me personally that's an area where he tends to go a little over the top if not reined in sometimes, so the bit of edge that SH retained keeps me happy

9 is a pretty good Burton film

he didn't do anything with that but produce it. also, I think you are the only person who ever saw it.

i saw it and it's brilliant

but yeah, not a 'burton' movie.

Oh, I got it for xmas and saw Burton written on the cover. I couldn't remember if he had wrote it or not.

Oh shit yeah, 9 was awesome, although it ended on a corny note.

sleepy hollow.

i really like edward, batman 1/2 and mars attack

my mom took me to see Ed Wood when it came out. i was 9 years old and was very excited since it was rated R. i loved it.

ive never thought of myself as a tim Burton fan but thinking back on it, it's funny how many of his movies ive seen and loved (especially when I was a kid) - loved Nightmare & Beetlejuice, saw Batman Returns when it came out too, was 7 years old, loved it, Pfeifer in patent leather likely a formative influence on my burgeoning sexuality, probably the second best live action Batmovie... the first batman is horrible (love how he turned bats into a literal serial murderer though)

mars attacks was prob where it all started to fall apart... loved it at the time (& havent seen it since) but all the seeds for the 'wacky' Alice in Wonderland were sown there... Sleepy Hollow had amazing set design and a spooky Chris Walken but not much else going for it... Planet of the Apes was str8 up horrible aside from some great costuming and makeup, i skipped everything else by him this decade until a date dragged me to Alice... im sure i'll never intentionally see one of this guy's movies again... i promise you his Dark Shadows movie will be agonizing, someone needs to euthanize Johnny Depp

i do sorta wish his nic cage superman movie happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvhMejIcD9o

http://mydisguises.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/superman-lives-concept-art-3.jpg

jesus that picture at the bottom is just horrifying

ikr, it looks like a final happy snap before some drunk cannibalism.

I thought his movies were lame and bad and boring when I saw them as a kid for some reason but then again I loved the mortal kombat movie and shit as a kid
but I saw ed wood and uh some other movie he did I forget oh it was beetlejuice recently and both were pretty awesome

I think I saw mortal kombat 3 on tv a year ago when I was drunk at like 3 am or something I watched the whole thing it was like one long expensive episode of the power rangers holy shit what do we all do with our lives

now the song is stuck in my head

Was thinking about this this afternoon. My top three would be Bettlejuice, Scissorhands, and Nightmare b4 Christmas which I try to watch every year but now I feel like I really need to see Ed Wood.

Actually pretty surprised at the lack of love before Nightmare. It's really good!

wow - I just reread that. Lack of love "for" "Nightmare Before" obv. I just woke up and apparently can't type while still 1/2 asleep.

I've always found Nightmare Before a tad overrated, mainly because of goth girls at my sixth form going on about it endlessly.

yeah but we are approaching an age where the Nightmare Before fad is ending
popularity aside, the night mare has amazing artwork/detail/yada yada, it should have got more points

jesus that picture at the bottom is just horrifying

Coppola looks like an extra from the Walking Dead in that picture.

You guys know about the unmade Beetlejuice sequel set in Hawaii, right?