There are no good movies about politics?

politics isn't dramatic OR funny

whaaat

Dave

I kinda liked Wag The Dog!

I was about 14 when I saw it, mind.

-- Just got offed, Thursday, 7 August 2008 20:20 (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

what about that Larry Flynt movie, people liked that

Bob Roberts

Dave

-- Mr. Snrub, Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:20 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

beat me

Does all the presidents men count?

a few good men?

the manchurian candidate

RFK (okay I didn't see this but it was apparently good)

which is pretty preachy at times but is good satire and makes a gesture of addressing the military industrial complex (bob roberts i mean)

the manchurian candidate

-- akm, Thursday, August 7, 2008 4:22 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

which one

jessica fletcher freaked me out

word

The Parallax View
The Candidate
Shampoo (sort of)
A Perfect Candidate
Street Fight
Advise And Consent
The War Room

plenty of other good ones where that came from...

why don't you play a game of solitaire raymond

vs.

denzel will totally surgically bite the mind-control implant out of you

ooooh The CONTENDER

Philadelphia

which is the one with james garner and jack lemmon and dan ayckroyd

Distinct lack of British movies so far.

So, erm...Scandal?

Dave was okay, yes, but I tend to categorically hate "funny" movies about politics where oh, if only a normal Joe were running things, he'd definitely cut through it all and sort out sensible solutions for what Americans really want -- it's just kind of an idiotic notion. (Dave at least played it kind of soft and pleasant, but lots of movies seem to think they're really sticking it to the fatcats with this kind of stuff, at which it becomes bullshitty to an insufferable extent.)

Movies have to have a bottom by their nature -- they are born in and grounded in and perhaps doomed to sensual experience. Politics have no bottom at all. You can be compellingly political in a book, and if that's done right, it pulls the floor out from under you and you walk around for an hour like you just took your rollerskates off. A movie that tries that trick is just annoying, because it has to cheat to even attempt to approximate that other level. This is not limited to politics. There are lots of things that movies are not the correct medium for.

The Thick Of It is being turned into a movie, and the feature-length Xmas/Easter special was so good it might as well have been one.

what about that one where robin williams is a robot who lives 200 years then becomes president

Medium Cool wtf how has this not been mentioned yet

I mean, doesn't Dave call his accountant friend to go over the entire U.S. budget and throw together some down-home common-sense corrections that effectively balance it? That kind of stuff is about on par with golden retrievers playing in the NBA, sense-wise, and yet it often gets played like it's congratulating the native intelligence of the viewer

This reminds me of how dissapointing that movie Power was. How does Lumet directing + Richard Gere being smarmy + Gene Hackman being drunk + Julie Christie = such a boring movie?

JFK is totally awesome

or the new one where kevin costner is like a contestant on american idol

or the Postman

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington

Young Mr. Lincoln
Taxi Driver
Z (this might be the best on of all)
Tanner '88
Medium Cool

The Queen

my point was basically two things:

movies have to have a shape, the conflict involved has to be resolved (or at least, some kind of stopping point, but movies rarely have 'unsatisfying' endings). this is always a problem when you're trying to deal with a political conflict because those are never finished.

the other thing is that drama is about individual people and politics is about the persistence and contest of ideas. characters can be of a 'type' and stand in for a set of ideas, but then you're already a step removed from what the movie is supposed to be 'about'. you could have a great biopic of luther, but that wouldn't be 'the reformation' in toto.

lotta xps

1776

Election!

Election YES

PICK FLICK

JFK is pretty dopey, especially for fooling the gullible into thinking Kennedy was certain to leave Vietnam.

BULWORTH

BULWORTH NOOOOOOOOOO

oh I don't believe a single thing in JFK I just enjoy all the pulse-pounding conspiracy-mongering and goofy cameos

The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara

t/s bulworth vs. head of state

ooh yeah Fog of War is great

Triumph of the Will haha

Yep, The Contender

Malcolm X

Citizen Ruth

shit Citizen Kane

The Battle of Algiers
Primary Colors
The Leopard
Hands Over the City

Ha, there's a level on which Citizen Ruth is the wonderful opposite of these films I'm complaining about where common sense would allegedly solve everything -- it's grand politicking on both sides over a pawn who couldn't give a shit either way

citizen ruth brings the lols but it's pretty bad! does one 'side' or the other get proven wrong, ie do we figure out whether getting an abortion is bad or not? no, luckily for all involved ruth miscarries (ie the movie cheats) and we get a lame gesture toward 'both sides having problems, but also something to say'. oh well, back to politics to decide the issue...

maybe i'm over-expecting was movies are trying to say politically, but none of them seem content to illustrate a moment accurately and let the chips fall, either

xp

Being There

Bulworth seconded.

Land and Freedom

Citizen Ruth totally cops out at the end I agree. but up until the last 5 minutes or so it is really funny and cutting.

fog of war is totally amazing, but maybe a doc is out of bounds?

i've mentioned loving antonia's line and topsy turvy somewhere else, both are explicitly political w/o being about politicians.

the lady and the duke is about the only good conservative movie i've ever seen

dick

Fahrenheit 9/11

sorry :/

xp

hah i've never like michael moore either

Bulworth was the worst movie ever!!

That seems totally point-missing re: Citizen Ruth, goole! I mean, yes, the miscarriage is a feint away from having to go one way or the other, but it's necessary enough to run with, and the thrust of the whole thing isn't about the two "sides" but rather the gap between them and Ruth herself. I suppose you could read it as faintly anti-political in that sense, that can almost find yourself rooting for Ruth's escape and even some good paint for her to huff, but it's the drops between her attitude and its disconnect from the whole idea of something being politicized that makes the thing work

The War Game

JFK was a pile of shit too.

Citizen Ruth is terrific; Swing Vote halfheartedly tries to be like it and fails.

Bulworth too tough on yr beloved Dems, elmo? or is your complaint that Beatty can't rap? GEE I WONDER IF HE KNEW

plz tell me Costner plays a paint-huffer

Dr Strangelove

haha morbs i didn't like bulworth because it was terrible

j/k i didn't even watch bulworth AND THUS YOU ARE HOIST BY YOUR OWN PETARD

doesn't bulworth end with an insurance company executive personally shooting him? gimme a break.

j/k i watched it and it was bad

Yeah Morbs, I'm sorry, that movie was awful and embarrassing

Also it seemed to think it was being really self-aware and clever about its racial dynamics despite NOT BEING THAT AT ALL

Gore Vidal's The Best Man -- has some of the man's worst qualities (smugness), but it's very sharp.

bulworth was embarrassing not in the least because he promotes miscegenation as a solution to racial politics but mostly because he wants to smash halle berry

No one's mentioned Election?!

I did

(probably my favorite movie listed so far tbh)

tbf halle berry looked pretty good in bulworth

someone did. no-one's mentioned The American President or Primary Colors.

Probably because neither is good.

hey elmo; Bulworth is CRAZY, see?

nabisco is awesome but doesnt even like The New World!

"fill me up, mr. m"

uhh

That seems totally point-missing re: Citizen Ruth, goole! I mean, yes, the miscarriage is a feint away from having to go one way or the other, but it's necessary enough to run with, and the thrust of the whole thing isn't about the two "sides" but rather the gap between them and Ruth herself. I suppose you could read it as faintly anti-political in that sense, that can almost find yourself rooting for Ruth's escape and even some good paint for her to huff, but it's the drops between her attitude and its disconnect from the whole idea of something being politicized that makes the thing work

yeah i guess this is all still within the 'realm of the possible' and thus lame, to me. the fact that ruth is a moron is already politically problematic imo. what could never occur in film is a woman with her shit reasonably together who gets an abortion for whatever reasons; it's a big deal and a lot to think about, but not a monumental crisis. this is something never to be seen on screen that also, what do you know, occurs millions of times a year. the radical-as-utterly-commonplace...

i mean, make a pro-choice movie if that's what your politics are!

I saw Bulworth in the theater and laughed a few times but yeah it was horrible. I distinctly remember the buddy I saw it with commenting how it was constructed and executed like a shitty Disney live-action movie from the 70s (a la the Shaggy Dog or the Computer That Wore Tennis Shoes) except with swearing/rapping and a violent ending. There is something awful clunky about it and all the characters are these really thin caricatures and situations are constantly getting defused in ridiculous ways (see ice cream scene ref'd on that other thread). I seriously don't understand what anyone sees in this movie.

that it's better than Shampoo?

This site has been asking political writer-journos to name their 5 favorites, and the guy who wrote Nixonland goes first cuz he named Madame de, 1776 AND Lumumba...

http://www.filminfocus.com/essays/five-political-films-1.php

oh, and Punishment Park! rent almost any Peter Watkins, in fact.

the challopsian in me wants to defend bulworth, seeing how many people hate it. i really liked it in middle school; maybe it works better if you pretend its a kids movie.

Lumumba
Great political films are often great because the give us foreshortened, visual means to grasp the abstract mysteries of political change. I was fascinated by the verisimilitude with which Raoul Peck was able to capture what it feels like when one political moment transforms itself into another — here, in the case of the process of independence for the nation of Congo. It certainly rung true enough for the ex-CIA hands depicted in the film, who forced HBO to bleep out his name by threat of lawsuit if they showed it.

and here i am arguing that this can't be done w/o losing something essential... haven't seen lumumba btw, i heard it was really good.

i'd heard of punishment park before, thx for the tip on watkins.

To be fair, Morbius, I couldn't even get through enough of The New World to have an opinion beyond "this is tedious and I have no inclination to finish watching it." Maybe it got way better after that.

Goole, I think Citizen Ruth works much better if you avoid interrogating it for political opinions about abortion and focus on Ruth undercutting that (alternately, it's fun to pretend the judge at the beginning is still actually his character from the Police Academy movies)

maybe it works better if you pretend its a kids movie.

No max, don't defend it.

what could never occur in film is a woman with her shit reasonably together who gets an abortion for whatever reasons; it's a big deal and a lot to think about, but not a monumental crisis

Fast Times at Ridgmont High
Last American Virgin

amy heckerling, come back, your country needs you

bulworth is a movie about a breakdown. it's meant to be embarrassing. dont think for a second warren beatty ever thought he was cool doing those terrible raps. it's a brave performance.

amy heckerling came back and made loser

bulworth 2: a brave performance

(That's not the way I meant it was embarrassing, s1ocki!)

yay s1ocki!

nabisco should give the tedium test to Peter Watkins' 5-hr film on the Paris Commune....

haha no but really, isn't bulworth a movie about a stuffy white dude who learns how to loosen up through the fateful intervention of black people?? yawn

morbz unwavering love for bulworth is totally endearing

what country has the best politics

amy heckerling came back and made loser

uh yeah well uh

there's also this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0466839/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=969ANF3GCX8

see if you change "warren beaty" to "julia stiles" and "politics" to "dance," suddenly "bulworth" looks a lot like "save the last dance"

no elmo, he is preachin' first TO black people that they shouldn't expect anything of him, properly.

Bulworth isn't stuffy, he's atrophied (hence the opening pics of him with RFK, King? etc), a la ex-McGovernites Billary.

haha forgot about odb in there

omg save the last dance - that is an awesome parallel

seriously the fact that morbz thinks a movie where warren beatty tells a black church they need to stop eating fried chicken is some kind of awesome political courage & truth-telling is all you need to know about dude on politics ever

hahahah

xp: very clever out-of-context bullshit there, from a guy who thinks "and...what" is the apotheosis of hiphop.

Oh, another dumb idea I hate in movies about American politics (briefly touched in Bulworth if I remember right) -- the idea that if a politician just suddenly felt free to speak his mind and call it like it is, he would be adored by a public yearning for some straight talk.

just like John McCain!

man I really hope McCain does some embarassing rapping before this campaign is over

Obscenity? The rich is getting richer and richer and richer while the middle class is getting more poor/ Making billions and billions and billions of bucks/ well my friend if you weren't already rich at the start well that situation just sucks/cause the riches mother fucker in five of us is getting ninety fuckin eight percent of it/ and every other motherfucker in the world is left to wonder where the fuck we went with it/ Obscenity?/ I'm a Senator/ I gotta raise $10,000 a day every day I'm in Washington/ I ain't getting it in South Central/ I'm gettin it in Beverly Hills/ So I'm votin from them in the Senate the way they want me too/ and-and-and I'm sending them my bills/ But we got babies in South Central dying as young as they do in Peru/ We got public schools that are nightmares/ We got a Congress that ain't got a clue/We got kids with submachine guns/ We got militias throwing bombs/ We got Bill just gettin all weepy/ We got Newt blaming teenage moms/We got factories closing down/ Where the hell did all the good jobs go? Well, I'll tell you where they went/My contributors make more profits makin, makin, makin, Hirin' kids in Mexico/ Oh a brother can work in fast food/ If he can't invent computer games/ But what we used to call America/ That's going down the drains/How's a young man gonna meet his financial responsibilities workin and motherfuckin Burger King? He ain't! And please don't even start with that school shit/ There aint no education going on up in that motherfucker/ Obscenity? We got a million brothers in prison/ I mean, the walls are really rockin/But you can bet your ass they'd all be out/If they could pay for Johnny Cochran/ The constitution is supposed to give them an equal chance/ Well, that ain't gonna happen for sure/ Ain't it time to take a little from the rich motherfucker and give a little to the poor? I mean, those boys over there on the monitor/ they want a government smaller and weak/ but the be speakin for the riches 20 percent when they pretend they're defendin the meek/ Now, shit, fuck, cocksuker, that's the real obscenity/ Black folks livin with every day/ Trying to believe a mothefuckin word Democrats and Republicans say/ Obscenity? I'm Jay Billington Bulworth And I've come to say/ The Democratic party's got some shit to pay/ It's gonna pay it in the ghetto/ It's gonna pay it in the-

Oh, another dumb idea I hate in movies about American politics (briefly touched in Bulworth if I remember right) -- the idea that if a politician just suddenly felt free to speak his mind and call it like it is, he would be adored by a public yearning for some straight talk.

And the villain's a mellifluous type (Claude Rains, Frank Langella, etc) who somehow got elected and is a "veteran."

i.e. he's so transparently crooked that you wonder how the common sense-loving voters picked him year after year.

But what we used to call America/ That's going down the drains

preaching to black folks that they used to have it better off in america, that's some insight right there

you mean before Clinton abolished Aid to Families with Dependent Children? YUP

I've still got McCain doing "Gimme That Nut" in my head.

fortunately re Claude Rains, there's absolutely zero politics in Mr. Smith

Cromwell, Marie Antoinette, Nixon, also yeah, totally Dick. The kissinger impersonation there is so very good.

mr smith is the only good one

except for election

Oh, another dumb idea I hate in movies about American politics (briefly touched in Bulworth if I remember right) -- the idea that if a politician just suddenly felt free to speak his mind and call it like it is, he would be adored by a public yearning for some straight talk.

part of the reason capra's film is great = this DOESN'T happen.

it doesn't?

but we do get a proto Jimmy Swaggart confession.

While Smith talks, his constituents try to rally around him, but the entrenched opposition is too powerful and all attempts are crushed. On Taylor's orders, newspapers and radio stations in Smith's home state refuse to report what Smith has to say, and even twist the facts against him. Even an effort by the Boy Rangers to spread the news results in vicious attacks on the children by Taylor's minions.

Although all hope seems lost, the senators begin to pay attention despite Smith's utter exhaustion and the hoarseness of his voice. Paine has one last card up his sleeve. He brings in bins of letters and telegrams from Smith's home state from people demanding his expulsion.

Yeah, I remember liking that a lot -- it'd be interesting to see someone plot out something like that with modern communications, where a message the audience wants to see delivered gets twisted, countered, misrepresented, etc. as it seeps out to the public.

Secret Honor

Eh, I still find Mr Smith creaky most of the time. The Great McGinty's a better film for mitigating its cynicism with corn that Capra might have liked.

God, I love Allen Garfield in The Candidate: "Whatever you do, don't look up at all. Don't look up, don't look up--'cause your eyes are glazed, then you look cockeyed. You look like a moron."

Couple of odd Godfather connections I noticed watching The Candidate tonight. 1) At one point, Crocker Jarmon says, word for word, the opening line of The Godfather: "I believe in America." 2) When McKay visits his famous politician father in search of a denial (to the story that the father is going to endorse Jarmon), it's staged very similarly to Michael's first visit with Hyman Roth in Godfather II (two years later).

I've been watching a number of Trump-related films the past week. Looked at Bob Roberts and Bulworth yesterday for the first time since they came out.

Didn't mind Bob Roberts. It's the more predictable of the two, with easier targets, but a couple of the songs I actually kind of liked (in the way I like certain songs from Nashville--"complain and complain and complain," that one was good), and it was fun seeing all the familiar supporting players (even spotted a couple of character actors from Seinfeld, including the guy Jerry locked in a trunk). Robbins is good--same year as The Player, I think.

I wasn't engaged enough in 1998 to appreciate how specifically Bulworth was targeting Clinton and the welfare bill. That was the best and most interesting thing about it. But the same gimmick that made me hate it then was still there and still a huge problem: how painfully awful Beatty's raps are. And the fact that they're supposed to be painfully awful doesn't make them the least bit easier to watch. (The only thing I can really think of in movies or TV that I know is supposed to make me cringe and is carried off so perfectly that I find it compelling because of it is the Larry Sanders roast episode.) The two scenes where Beatty first starts saying whatever's on his mind--the speech in South Central and the heavily Jewish fundraiser afterwards--I don't know why he just didn't stick with that, those scenes were fine. And then he starts rapping.

Watched A Face in the Crowd two nights ago. Above average for sure.

I was thinking that Bob Roberts felt like a more polished, even cagier version of Lonesome Rhodes. Also trying to figure out how A Face in the Crowd related to Kazan's HUAC problem...was Rhodes supposed to be McCarthy and the film meant as an apology?