Question about Drug-Using Teenagers

Don't call the police, call their parents.

I don't know their parents.

go ask alice

:(

oh no that is dire

if you go chasing rabbits
you know you're going to fall

call the cops. and the local needle exchange program.

I assume you have some actual reason to think they're doing heroin, like, y'know needles lying around and shit.

I'm actually not an expert on hard drugs. When I was watching they were using lighters on spoons. I assumed from the little I know that is heroin? I mean, they just arrived.

yeah that's the smack alright.

if it really bothers you, photograph them and post the photos on the street

it is uncouth to cook heroin on anything less than a salad fork

of course I hate cops, personally I probably wouldn't call them. but I'd make it clear that junkies ain't welcome. yelling would probably be involved.

yeah, yelling "I'M CALLING THE COPS" will get them out of there unless they've got the nods.

Don't call the cops unless you want to be responsible for getting the poor sods into possible legal trouble. A heroin habit is bad enough as it is.

i used to live on the western border of chicago near an expressway, we used to have junkies shooting up in the alley all the time. always freaked me out when i was taking the trash to the dumpster and there was some guy popping skin on the other side of it.

If they're under 18...I mean there's no way to know, but maybe they'll be less punished if so? Learn some kind of lesson? I don't know. I gathered from 'Christiane F.' that the main way junkies quit doing smack is by dying. Also, that David Bowie was really bitching in concert.

alternately you could exploit them for cheap sex

yes because junkies will never cause YOU any problems and it's good to give them a place where they feel safe enough to do their thing.

xpost to t.

Don't call the cops unless you want to be responsible for getting the poor sods into possible legal trouble. A heroin habit is bad enough as it is.

This is probably the worst reason I've ever heard/seen for not calling the cops on someone.

If you are going to call the cops, don't do it on Christmas. Last xmas, my neighbor called the INS on a bunch of Mexican kids, and they all got deported, cuffed up in the park across the street. Couldn't he have waited a day? What a scrooge.

you could always just blast obnoxious music at them. you could be ironic, make it all songs about heroin.

yes but we are not talking about border-crossers, we are talking about people who shoot up in alleyways. (xp)

Make a trail of clumped brown sugar leading away from your building.

I just wouldn't call the cops because a) cops are assholes, and b) it won't really help the junkies much to be hassled by assholes (although it might improve your immediate situation). I'd say the key is just to make it uncomfortable for them to be there. then they'll go away.

possible legal trouble

hahaha, "possible." This is America, Tuomas! That said, I believe heroin is available in jails.

xp, I know, remy. It just made me have a new rule of 'don't make people deal with legal enforcement people on xmas day.'

I'm not going to do anything. They aren't bothering me at the moment. Maybe I'll file a report later on - have police drive by this alley more often, maybe?

why not just post a big NOT IN MY BACK YARD sign, shakey?

i'd call a local substance abuse hotline and ask for advice, fwiw

I'm not going to do anything. They aren't bothering me at the moment. Maybe I'll file a report later on - have police drive by this alley more often, maybe?

-- Mordy, Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:23 PM (Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:23 PM) Bookmark Link

if they haven't broken in and stolen your phone.

I admit to having told the cops about dealers and shit on my block, if only bcz they lead to neighborhood drama and I just want shit to be chill, man. They are assholes, though – didn't do a damn thing about MY legal problem. Maybe if the guy had 1/16th oz of weed on him I wld have had a case.

My brother was on the street down the block the other day and someone pulled a gun out. It was the middle of the day. I guess at this point I feel like heroin is the least of our problems. :(

They = the cops.

xp

why not just post a big NOT IN MY BACK YARD sign, shakey?

I would attach this sign to my 8-mo old baby girl and station her at the alleyway

i'd call a local substance abuse hotline and ask for advice, fwiw

Yeah, I'd do something like that too. When I said you shouldn't call the cops I didn't mean you shouldn't do anything, just that if you care at last a bit about these people, calling the cops is probably not the best option.

Maybe you could do like Home Alone and attach a cardboard cutout of Bill Cosby to a miniature train so it all looks like GHOST DAD punishing them from afar?

It's not that kind of neighborhood, Abbot. I'm in an apartment building and the alleyway is surrounded by a couple other buildings. That's how I was able to watch them -- I'm a few floors up.

Personally, I think that once you start going to random alleyways and doing hard drugs, you are taking on all of the risk that entails, which includes someone calling the cops on you.

i think that openly antagonizing at a bunch of junked up kids is probably a lot more dangerous to yr baby's potential health than just calling the cops.

ALSO HI DERE OTM

i think that openly antagonizing at a bunch of junked up kids is probably a lot more dangerous to yr baby's potential health than just calling the cops.

dude that WAS A JOKE

They have anonymous tiplines & shit.

water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons. water baloons.

water baloons. water baloons.

I knew it wasn't that kind of neighbs, Mordy – I just wanted to imagine a Cosby in your house all the time.

This sucks, and the thing about your brother sucks more. All best at any rate.

Mordy, if you live in the Crown Heights area there are a couple of methadone clinics around there, I wonder if you could get flyers or write with sharpies "CALL THIS NUMBER TO CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP, GET OUT OF MY ALLEY" on a poster and tape it to the wall?

Personally, I think that once you start going to random alleyways and doing hard drugs, you are taking on all of the risk that entails, which includes someone calling the cops on you.

Sure, but if they aren't doing any harm to anyone else, why do you have to be the person to call the cops?

oh sorry shakey mo

Why shouldn't you be the person to call the cops if you aren't okay with junkies hanging around your house?

I'm not in CH. I'm in Washington Heights. Maybe there are clinics around here too. I should do some research.

Sure, but if they aren't doing any harm to anyone else, why do you have to be the person to call the cops?

Bcz it is a tendency of some addicts too start doing crimes to fund their addiction. There is mos defs BIG POTENTIAL for shit to stir up. Junkies are volatile.

tuomas: My brother was on the street down the block the other day and someone pulled a gun out.

I actually thought the drug situation around here wasn't so bad. When I first got here, the only guy who used this alleyway was a Russian dude who played techno in his parked car until late at night. I wonder if the drug situation is getting worse.

i agree with gr8080

I had same train of thought as Laurel.

I was just going to say you should leave some lfyers or something in there so that they get the message that you know what's going on but also some helpful phone numbers too. If they still hang out there after a couple days then call the cops.

jesus Tuomas - the harm is that Mordy's immediate environment is becoming unhealthy (dirty needles are a BIOHAZARD yo; junkies tend to vomit and shit any and everywhere, dead bodies from ODs, etc.) and potentially dangerous (petty crime)

many x-posts

Question about Running from Wet, Pissed-Off Drug-Using Teenagers

lolz hell yeah water balloons

bombs awaaaayyy

Why shouldn't you be the person to call the cops if you aren't okay with junkies hanging around your house?

I see your point, but maybe better ways to scare them off without getting them into unnecessary trouble? If you don't think there are, I guess calling the cops is the best option.

tuomas: My brother was on the street down the block the other day and someone pulled a gun out.

Was it these same guys?

erm.....they could just be burning hash on a spoon to put in a yoghurt or whatever? we did this loads when I was that age.

I don't know if they are the same guys. I doubt it. I think the gun guy was a dealer. These guys are just junkies. (I'll admit, tho, I don't know how the drug economy works outside The Wire.)

"Worse" is sort of a subjective thing on this small a scale, though -- like, if one kid from your building (or any nearby building) and two of his friends started shooting up and doing it on your block, that's technically "worse" but it's just one local and his friends. Maybe? Of course combined with the gun sighting maybe it DOES mean an upswing in traffic, or a turf dispute, or something.

It involves the exchange of money or services for drugs.

xp

jesus Tuomas - the harm is that Mordy's immediate environment is becoming unhealthy (dirty needles are a BIOHAZARD yo; junkies tend to vomit and shit any and everywhere, dead bodies from ODs, etc.) and potentially dangerous (petty crime)

I understand this, but as far as I know cops are rarely able to stop this from happening to a specific neighbourhood. Of course if you feel scared you should call the cops to get rid of the immediate danger, but I don't think they can do much to any possible long-term changes.

Also they're gone now. So the immediate question has passed.

I'm sorry I'm being such a sillypants here, I can STFU if you'd like. :{

It's okay Abbot. :)

I just meant, I don't know if dealers are also junkies. Or whether there's such a clear dichotomy.

i could use money, "services", and drugs at the moment.

The smart dealers aren't junkies.

ut as far as I know cops are rarely able to stop this from happening to a specific neighbourhood

junkies, like water and electricity, take the path of least resistance. if you call the cops on them and keep calling the cops they'll go somewhere that's less of a hassle to shoot up.

Standard enthalpy of smack shooters.

i've known big-time users become small-time dealers to support their addiction. so watch out because those people are crazy.

To be a dopeman boy you must qualify
Don't get high off your own supply

Tuomas is the walking embodiment of "Sweet and Tender Hooligan".

its kinda tragic that theres not someone you can call who will you know help them

I understand this, but as far as I know cops are rarely able to stop this from happening to a specific neighbourhood.

really?

junkies, like water and electricity, take the path of least resistance. if you call the cops on them and keep calling the cops they'll go somewhere that's less of a hassle to shoot up.

And do you think, if a certain neighbourhood is going down, that cops can patrol there all the time and always come to help immediately when someone sees a junkie? I wish it was that easy. Of course if it's just a singular case, cops might be able to do something about it, but they can't do much about more general, long-term processes.

Why do anything, ever?

its kinda tragic that theres not someone you can call who will you know help them

I ref'd needle exchange program above. I worked with one in the SC area in college and they were really good people. fairly common in most urban areas.

(er SC = Santa Cruz)

mordy maybe you should supply them with drugs and clean needles, i'd hate for the poor dears to catch Hep-C on your watch.

Maybe they were using clean needles. They seemed pretty young and healthy.

You can get off heroin more easily than you can get off AIDS, is the thing.

call the cops.

tuomas, i don't know how it is in finland or wherever but in chicago, yeah, the cops WILL come if you say there's someone shooting up in your alley.

It's too late for now, M@tt. They've moved on. If they come back tomorrow, I'll call.

I half-understand where you're coming from, Tuomas, but honestly: even if you made a list of things Mordy could plausibly do in the interest of getting these kids off drugs and closer to some ideal rosy life path, putting that as his #1 concern, the top of it would probably look like this:

1. Magically befriend kids and become tough-love mentor / parent-figure who, over months of effort, wins their trust and inspires them to turn their lives around

2. Call cops

... because if they are minors, some cop hassle or an arrest that's later sealed in a juvenile file actually could, in some perfect world, mess with them and scare them straight, whereas pretty much 99.9% of everything else Mordy might do about this is not going to make one whit of difference in their lives either way, apart from whether or not they use this particular alley to shoot up.

bah I was going to say pretty much exactly what nabisco said

^^ I am definitely not saying calling the cops is likely to make much difference either, or that Mordy should, just ... sayin what I'm sayin

tuomas, i don't know how it is in finland or wherever but in chicago, yeah, the cops WILL come if you say there's someone shooting up in your alley.

Yes, like I said they can help in singular cases, but not with the general drug or junkie problem. All the experts I've read on the subject pretty much agree that in most societies the criminal justice system has been a failure in deterring drug use, and more efforts and money should be channelled in other means of dealing with the problem (health care, social work, etc). If cops really would be so efficient in dealing with this, shouldn't the US have a much smaller drug problem than countries like Finland which have more lenient drug laws and policies?

(xxx-post)

I agree, Nabisco, I was talking more in general terms. Obviously Mordyshould do whatever he feels is necessaru.

1. Magically befriend kids and become tough-love mentor / parent-figure who, over months of effort, wins their trust and inspires them to turn their lives around

i saw that movie on the WE network

tuomas, i don't think mordy is looking to end heroin use, he's looking to not have junkies use his alley as a shooting gallery.

Yes, hence my last comment.

that's probably not the only reason finland has a smaller drug problem

(xp) You are actually a team of posters, aren't you. We just caught you mid shift transfer.

ok, i think i understand now. everyone was talking about one thing while you were talking about another. got it.

xpost to t.

Team Tuomas

Please, Dan, Tuomas's consistent advice to Mordy has been that he should have ended the U.S. drug war and drastically overhauled our treatment and support services for drug rehabilitation BEFORE the kids finished shooting up and left the alley

I mean, don't get me wrong, Tuomas, I don't think there's a person here who would call the cops on kids like this without feeling really bad about it, and agonizing a little bit over the thought that it might lead to a life-changing drug conviction that could ruin the entire life of a kid who might have turned out semi-OK, especially given the drug laws in New York

That would be a good start, yes. After that he would do well to crush the inequal Western capitalist system that has lead into the situation were drug use is the only escape and drug dealing the only viable career option for some people.

(x-post)

GET TO IT, MORDY

yeah, because there's no such thing as heroin use in the east. china's never heard of it i'm sure.

"CALL THIS NUMBER TO CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP, GET OUT OF MY ALLEY"

Be sure to also leave chocolate chip cookies.

My neighbour, a butcher, said he had some young guys asking for tin foil paper. He was convinced they asked it so they could smoke heroin. Am I naive to think no junkies would do this? I mean, really, go ask a butcher for some tin foil at 7 am in the morning? I saw the guys, didn't seem like junkies to me but then I know fuck all about junkies. I still think they look like Sid Vicious. (J/K)

Yes, like I said they can help in singular cases, but not with the general drug or junkie problem. All the experts I've read on the subject pretty much agree that in most societies the criminal justice system has been a failure in deterring drug use, and more efforts and money should be channelled in other means of dealing with the problem (health care, social work, etc). If cops really would be so efficient in dealing with this, shouldn't the US have a much smaller drug problem than countries like Finland which have more lenient drug laws and policies?

Laissez fair, laissez passer. Why do anything really?

I think "they" look like people I know.

I mean, really, go ask a butcher for some tin foil at 7 am in the morning

uh, the real question is why would anybody do this? If you are a) too cheap to buy tinfoil and b) young and foolish enough to think asking a butcher for it is inconspicuous and innocuous = you are probably a junkie

luarel, stop shooting up in mordy's alley.

(actually the butcher's anecdote reminds me of the guy at my former corner store excitedly telling me how he always kept bic pens in stock cuz the crackheads liked to make pipes out of them. way to go asshole!)

I know, Shakey. My friends and I were actually having fun with this. Being able to buy heroin but cheap enough to ask some butcher for tinfoil. then I realized it was maybe a bit hard to get some tinfoil at seven in the morning. Hmm. Butcher didn't give them any tinfoil though. didn't have any and I doubt he would have anyway.

yeah, because there's no such thing as heroin use in the east. china's never heard of it i'm sure.

Opium use in a wide scale was introduced to the Chinese by the British, in an intentional attempt to make them into addicts so that the West would have something to trade with them. It's all capitalist history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Maoist China was the only country to ever successfully curb a drug pandemic: treat the users and shoot the dealers on sight.

Problems solved!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish#History

Tuomas, your line about drugs being the "only escape" is kind of pretending to have sympathy for people while actually being incredibly cruel, condescending, and shitty to them.

I should have started a thread like this about the people having sex next to my building at 12:30 on a Monday night.

is it certain they were doing heroin, not a hash pipe or something?

would've been able to smell the hash, I assume

All I saw was the spoons and the lighters and then I left the window.

And no, I didn't smell anything.

Also: http://www.geopium.org/drugtradeinasia.html

monday? good for them!

(both links posted to point out that drugs existed in the East before the Opium Wars)

Jordan you have to ask yourself why, in a neighborhood full of bars that have bathrooms, you are having sex standing over a pile of trash and cardboard boxes that homeless dudes used to sleep on, in full view of all passersby, on a semi-busy downtown New York street, when it's barely after midnight

And then you have to ask yourself what your plans are for around 4am on Saturday

Opium use in a wide scale was introduced to the Chinese by the British, in an intentional attempt to make them into addicts so that the West would have something to trade with them. It's all capitalist history.

One word: roffle.

(I assume this is what you talk about, while rubbing your chins and wearing berets, shit you're Finish, not French instead of making babies, right?)

don't act like you've never had sex in an alley, nabisco

http://reelblack.com/shesgotta.jpg

Sex in alleys/around your house is just funny. The best way to deal with it is to pop out with a video camera. Up the ante!

like so. (NB: if you scroll down much that becomes NSFW.)

Tuomas, your line about drugs being the "only escape" is kind of pretending to have sympathy for people while actually being incredibly cruel, condescending, and shitty to them.

That's kind of over the top, considering how many drug users, current and former, have referred to drugs as their "only escape", or something similar, i.e. "My life sucks and I don't have anything else I enjoy".

I don't enjoy drugs.

I enjoy drugs.

Regards,

SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT DRUGS

(i don't really enjoy drugs)

Cheese is my drung of choice

will ye have a heroin

I know some people who do, though the ones who smoke weed every day are the ones who seem happiest with their lot. (They're also the ones, interestingly, who seem most bent on escapism.)

Or, if you prefer, there's the line that a friend of mine was given once, while in the Midwest (Oklahoma, maybe?):

Q: Why do you do that shit (crystal meth), anyway?
A: I dunno, there's nothing else to do out here.

xposts

There are a bunch of teenagers eating what seems like cheese in the alleyway next to my apartment (I can see them through my window). Should I call the police or just let them be? It doesn't seem like they are causing any harm at the moment. Just sitting around on crates.

They are in danger of migraine!

(actually the butcher's anecdote reminds me of the guy at my former corner store excitedly telling me how he always kept bic pens in stock cuz the crackheads liked to make pipes out of them. way to go asshole!)

I wondered for years at what kind of dick would buy his girl a fake flower in a glass tube.

http://bostonist.com/attachments/boston_jon/crackpiperoses.jpg

I should have started a thread like this about the people having sex next to my building at 12:30 on a Monday night.

-- nabisco, Wednesday, August 20, 2008 5:16 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

treat the woman, shoot the man

I bought one of those fake $1 flowers for my mom at age ten.

Will ye have a cheese lad

Cheese the heroin-based recreational drug that led to dead teens in Dallas a couple years ago?

I will have a dairy cheese

I am now embarrassed for not having connected the two.

Yellow-tar heroin.

http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/yelo-kid.gif

Question about terrifying indeterminately-aged teenagers

There were 4 or 5 of them, and they looked somewhere between 16-19.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/Vaklam/yellowkid1.jpg

Not calling the cops on these children leads to increased gambling & influx of petty crime.

http://craigboldman.com/yellow_kid.gif

Their habits influence youth in the suburbs & more affluent neighborhoods.

http://www.toonopedia.com/uimages/toons/d/rarebit.jpg

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk5.jpg

Soon they have to carry illegal firearms.

Abbot, this is some next-level shit you're posting.

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk18.jpg
Eventually they are forced to sell drugs to continue their own habits.

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk19.jpg

The city is terrorized by organized crime; soon, the cops are as corrupt as the criminals themselves.

whole new realms of cultural reference are opening up in front of me.

this has all the makings of an ILX classic thread. were any of the teenagers wearing trucker hats? was one of them sitting awkwardly between two girls?

No... I think there may be some confusion about the kind of neighborhood I live in.

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk39.jpg

Even among non-users, 'heroin chic' is glamorized.

Which is to say, I don't live in Williamsburg or Astoria.

<removes tongue from cheek with audible popping noise>

sorry.

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk73.jpg

Dogfighting is introduced as a new underground activity to funnel money into dealers'hands.

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk73.jpg

http://www.marklansdown.com/pinbacks/images/yk80.jpg

Children are sworn into secrecy and forced to enter Satanic cults with bizarre induction rituals.

you live in the future williamsburg/astoria

xpost

TRUTH.

so just wait 10 years and the teenagers will be gone

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA04/wood/ykid/images/comicartists/yk_orangeSM.jpg

Pimps enter town, forcing their cadres of prostitutes into heroin addiction, to the point where they no longer recognize people.

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/h/hearst_wr/hearstpulitzer.gif

Eventually their stylings spread to even the 'big five' media.

is there any rational reason for having heroin?

also, back in my day, the kids in washington heights were on crack. lol gentrification

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/images/avatars/snitch.gif

It's all capitalist history.

despite the fact that opium use in china dates back to at least the 15th century? which is what, three hundred years before the advent of capitalism? how does that work?

Ironically, I'm leading tour groups of Washington Heights next week.

"Now here on your right you can see the heroin-abusing kids who hang out in the alleyway."

:D

what general area of WH are we talking about, Mordy? east or west of broadway? up by Ft. Tryon park?

187th + Amsterdam.

East of Broadway. Ft. Tryon area is really nice.

ok, yeah, east of broadway was always a bit sketchy compared to the west side of the neighborhood.

i've never seen anyone do heroin, certainly not on the street. or maybe i have and i just didn't know it.

they usually aren't very cute

to seriously answer your question:

Seems to me, WH is a neighborhood with a lot of positives: strong sense of community, rich culture, nice cityscapes, etc. It's also a neighborhood with some challenges: poverty, assimilation issues, potential for crime and other urban blights etc. It's a neighborhood that could go slide into decay or maintain its strong working class immigrant community. You seem to have affection for the area and highly value it's positives, so you should do what you can to prevent decay and encourage strong community. In this case, IMHO the best tool you have for dealing with this situation is calling the police.

that part of the hood is often called "ft. george" - i used to live near there a long time ago but pretty much stayed west of broadway. the neighborhood had a huge drug trade thing going on in the 80s, is that still the case??

I don't know. I mean, I'm guessing there is. Since clearly people are doing drugs, and my brother's gun encounter seems to be drug-related.

(I follow a community message board, and while there's plenty of crime, I haven't noticed a lot of complaints about drug stuff.)

MORDY, NO!

http://wcbstv.com/local/jesse.trojaniak.tadieusz.2.800003.html

im 16, stand 6ft, i go to school, i fight andn scream andn listen to loud music, i smoke drink and do drugs and you shouldn't even try to change me kauze just for tips it wont work....im bisexual no surprise there lulz but im more attracted to girls personality but the boys looks also i starred in a grindhouse film from the late 50s

stay classy

who me (i haven't read the thread in its entirety and retroactively saw you posted recently probably in an ongoing conversation...what call the police?), thought of this semiabstract post for some of your enjoyment on queston about drug-using teenagers

(pretty sure Tuomas was kidding in those last posts, guys, I know it's hard to tell sometimes but)

I saw someone doing heroin in the pool room of a certain williamsburg bar where the heroin + syringe was stashed in a virgin megastore bag.