Smoking - so uncool its hella cool?

I cannot believe that the idea of smoking has been sold as "cool" to The Masses, when basically, given the amount of campaign contributions the Tobacco Industry contributes to the right wing, every pack of Marlboros you buy might as well be a vote for Pat Buchannan.

If you want to kill yourself, please do so in a manner that does not affect *my* health. Like, drink yourself to death like a real man.

Oh, I've sooo done that...my mum haad to give me mouth to mouth once as a result...cmoking is faar better because it pisses people off soooo much. pFFF

What really irritates me are the really self-righteous anti- smoking zealots, like "The Truth" commercials that air on US television. They attempt to make smoking seem unhip, but they do so in such a smug and self-righteous fashion it's almost enough to make me take up smoking.

x0x0

The problem is, I really don't give that much of a shit if I'm ruining everyone else's health in a bar or a club. I don't care if that makes me a bitch, because my theory is that if it bothers you that much, either don't go, or stand in an area where people aren't smoking. You know what you're in for when you go and I hate, hate, hate it when people go to a club and then complain about the cigarettes. It's like going to one and complaining about the drunks. It's different in a restaurant - I'll sit in the smoking section if they have one, but I'll wait til someone else lights up around me or has obviously lit up, and I"ll blow the smoke as far away from people as I can. At my own house, I smoke out the window, and if I have visitors I'll ask them if they mind (I've yet to be told yes). Even if I'm sitting with a nonsmoker friend, I'll ask if they mind.

I just hate the anti-smoking zealots, really. It's always the same thing - you're killing me with your smoke! Yes, if you're a fetus, sure. But I've read far too many contradictory studies on the effects of *second-hand* smoke to actually care. And I hate people who feel it's their right to lecture me on what to do with myself.

The difference between being around drunks and being around smokers is that, unless the person is so drunk that they are spilling their beer on you, a drunk does not INFLICT their habit on you the way that smokers do. As they say about free speach, your right to nasty habits ENDS at the tip of my nose.

I don't need any government studies to tell me that when someone is smoking near me, my eyes water, my throat closes up and I cough, I have difficulty breathing, etc. etc. etc. Cigarette smoking MAKES ME ILL. Why should the perverse, disgusting habits of a few people make my life hell? I have as much of a right to be in a restaurant, bar or nightclub as a fucking smoker. Why do their rights outweigh mine?

It bothers me, as a music fan, and as a performer, when I go to a club and the place is thick with cigarette smoke. Do you know how hard it is to SING in that sort of an evironment?

I am not contributing to this thread any more, because it makes me very cross. I think smoking is one of the most inconsiderate and rude things a person can do. When I see someone smoking, all I think is "what a fucking twat, that they think their right to enjoy themself outweighs my rights to be here." FUCK THAT.

Norman - "You are paying a lot of money to some of the scummiest corporations in the world" - I presume you don't buy anything from a supermarket, a major record label, etc. etc.

The high UK tax on fags also helps pays for the NHS, schools, etc. etc.

Book gigs in non smoking nightclubs. They do exist, in the US at least. I mean, I understand your specific point that you personally have a very high sensitivity to something in the smoke, and that's unfortunate and I'm sorry for you if that's the case, and if you were at my house, I wouldn't smoke near you. Most anti-smoking zealots do NOT have that problem - I'm talking in the US here, which seems to be a whole hell of a lot more anti-smoking in general than anywhere in Europe.

As for drunks not impeding on anyone besides themselves, all I can say is then you've either not been around enough drunks or you were too drunk yourself to notice (oh, I'm just kidding, sit down, girl!). I mean, our whole NYC meet was about being impeded upon by vicious drunkenness. In all seriousness though, you haven't seen bloody bar brawls? Men haven't rather ridiculously, irritatingly and threateningly hit on you when drunk? You've never seen someone smash up a glass and cut themselves? No one's thrown mussell shells off a roof at cars around you? Okay, well that last one might be a special kind of drunk stupid, but the rest of them are very common. Drinking most certainly impedes upon other people's right to enjoy themselves because there are a lot of people who don't know when to stop.

I just hate the anti-smoking zealots, really. It's always the same thing - you're killing me with your smoke!

I don't actually care abt the health issue, because I have rheumatoid arthritis, so old age is something I'm not planning on staying around for, IT'S THE GODDAMN FUCKING DISGUSTING SMELL I object to. You don't notice it because yr used to it, but trust me, picking up yer clothes after a night out w/smokers - the way it smells, U may as well have dipped them in dogshit.....

aNDReW L sez:

Norman - "You are paying a lot of money to some of the scummiest corporations in the world" - I presume you don't buy anything from a supermarket, a major record label, etc. etc.

The high UK tax on fags also helps pays for the NHS, schools, etc. etc.

Sorry Andrew, but that's really fucking lame. If you can't see that there's a big, big difference between Asda, Tesco, Sony/whoever, etc and big tobacco, then you really need to take a closer look at the world around you. Last time I checked, no supermarket chain made itself extremely wealthy selling a single highly addictive product which comprehensively fux0rs the heath of its users, whilst delivering no great reward that I can see. And, no record company that I know of regularly attempts to supress research showing that its products are harmful to one's health, whilst sponsoring quasi-research which surprise! shows that its products aren't that bad really. Coming out with that line abt taxes contributing to health & education just makes you sound like a phillip morris shill. Do you know any health industry workers by any chance? Would you like to ask them about the cost of health care to an emphysema (SP?) sufferer? or a lung cancer sufferer? Or do you actually give a shit? Go on, fckng light another up......

I don't know, it makes me laugh, this lot - I see a bunch of smokers getting all antsy and calling out "health fascist!" How obvious does it have to be? If I don't smoke in your vicinity IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. If you smoke in my vicinity you are effectively FORCING me to inhale poison. That's all there is to it, I mean what the fck is this, cognitive dissonance thread, or something? If you don't care about that, well, OK, but don't start calling me, or non-smokers like me fascist/authoritarian/whatever just because we object to that. From my point of view, I have a perfect right to object to it, more so than you have to object to my objecting, or something.

x0x0

Don't hang out with smokers if you don't like the smell. Simple as that. Quite frankly, there's nothing I like less than self-righteous blubbering about smoking, so you might be giving us a break by leaving us alone for the night out.

And one last thing: I suppose you never watch all the news reports on how dirty supermarkets are and how half of their meat/dairy is contaminated at certain chains? You don't think they go about surpressing that? That's the most foolish statement I've ever heard anyone say. If you think that tobacco companies are the only ones supressing info - sometimes more dangerous and wide reaching info - then you are extrodinarily naive.

"Do you know any health industry workers by any chance?" Well, quite a few as it happens, including a doctor who smokes more than me. And yes, the cost of treating smoking-related diseases is hellishly expensive. As is the cost of treating people who drink too much, who eat too many doughnuts, who like fighting, who sustain injuries playing sports, who contract STDS from unsafe sex etc. etc. If we were to limit healthcare to those people who hadn't done something unhealthy/dangerous all the NHS waiting lists would vanish overnight. My point is, smokers are one of the few 'burdens' on the NHS who also (materially) contribute something as well.

And again, of course the tobacco companies are unscrupulous scumbags, but so are ALL corporations. The products that they sell may not be as obviously harmful and addictive as cigs, but many of the methods used to sell them and make profit can contribute to human misery just as much (cf Nestle selling milk powder to the Third World). Visit www.boycottindex.com for a long list of shitty, rotten business practises on the part of large corporations that have a negative impact on human happiness (including your example, Sony.)

Now, can't we talk abt prog or something...

Right,

I don't actually care abt the health issue, because I have rheumatoid arthritis, so old age is something I'm not planning on staying around for, IT'S THE GODDAMN FUCKING DISGUSTING SMELL I object to. You don't notice it because yr used to it, but trust me, picking up yer clothes after a night out w/smokers - the way it smells, U may as well have dipped them in dogshit.....

I don't actually care abt the health issue

IT'S THE GODDAMN FUCKING DISGUSTING SMELL

I have to like someone who smokes a LOT before I put up with the stench. As far as contaminated dairy produce and meat goes, for fuxake, I'm british. Don't you think I'm WELL AWARE that our meat & milk is contaminated? If our supermarkets did try to supress this information, then they did a pretty fckng lame job, judging by the pics of burning foot & mouth infected cattle in all of our newspapers for most of this year, and the fact that in the wake of BSE, our meat products are as like leprosy to foreign markets. It's also fairly well known that milk suppliers do such dandy things as mix past its sell by date milk back into bulk quantities of good milk, rather than chuck it out. Mmmm.

I get round this by:

1/ being VERY choosy abt where I buy milk, and not using very much of it.

2/ not eating meat at all.

Easy really. Anyway, spare me the snidey comments re self righteous blubbering. You can be pretty self righteous yourself. Smoke all the fuck you want, seeing as yer thousands of miles away. Smoke ten king-size @ once, if U like. Actually, I don't give a shit. If U think I'm going to waste online time hunting fer case studies RE passive smoking so U can just shoot 'em down in some snidey manner, then you've got a wait ahead of U. I'll just continue to socialise with those smokers who are considerate in their use of tobacco, which, ironically enough, going on yer previous post, includes people like you.....

now, go ahead and have the last word, if it doth please you to do so.

x0x0

blah. Enough for this evening....

See, I wouldn't smoke around Kate. I WOULD smoke around you, to piss you off.

Mark, you are so totally right. Drugs should be sold in the supermarket with cigarettes anyhow, it's the only way to get around the whole shebang. The government could tax it and use it to pay off things (that's the funniest thing about the whole "Tobacco companies are evil" bullshit - it's a mutually productive relationship), drug addicts could get safe(r), clean doses, plus it'd probably lessen the amount of kids starting up since it'd not be a cool, screwing-the-man thing to do. It is a sham concocted to keep government officials in business and to keep down certain groups of people.

I used to smoke two, maybe three cigarettes a day in college. I only smoked when I was with people who were themselves smokers or by myself. If I was walking down the street smoking and saw someone coming towards me, I would hold off on inhaling so that this person would not get a cloud full of second-hand smoke in their faces. Basically, I recognized that my habit was considered to be spectauclarly invase by some and tried to go out of my way to keep it from impeding other people.

This did not prevent people from running across the street as if I had leprocy while giving me levil looks if they turned a corner and saw me holding a cigarette at the end of the block. Or, even better, the person who crossed the street specifically to yell at me for killing children with my disgusting destrucitve habit (never mind that there were no children in sight and I never EVER smoked when I knew that I was around kids). I was unbelievable. When I finally quit, it was partially because my girlfriend was deeply allergic to the smoke, but also because people were such aggressive pricks about the whole thing and I didn't enjoy it enough to put up with the bullshit.

Don't think for a second that non-smokers hold the asshole monopoly on this issue, because they quite clearly DO NOT.

Smoking if someone's asked you not to = rude.

Rudeness = endemic.

Agreed re. self-righteousness of both sides. Something about the whole argument makes everyone sound like either the guy from Consolidated or like Fred Durst. Best counter-argument to "You dont have to go where people smoke" is "You don't have to smoke", surely? And then nobody gets anywhere. Also by similar logic anyone Ally's age doesn't have a leg to stand on complaining about health fascism since they could have seen which way things were going when they started up.

I don't understand your comment re: health facism, Tom - what does being well aware that smoking is unhealthy for a smoker have to do with anything?

On one hand, it's a vile, disgusting habit. Being around my father 8 hours a day (chronic colds, coughs from the vats of Hell, phlegm, phlegm, and teeth the color of 70s flatware, but still smokes in our fucking office) doesn't dissuade me from my stance. I know for a fact that my health has gotten shittier since I started working in that office 3 years ago, mostly due to being around cigarette smoke (about 3-4 cigs worth) every single day. (Not that I'm getting cancer or losing limbs; my allergies kick up more often, though, and I get sick with much more ease than I did in the past.)

That said, smokers have rights, too. If you go to a club that allows smoking, you have to deal with it. When someone sparks up near you, either ask them to move, or move yourself. Idiots that take time out of their day to chastize people for deigning to indulge in a cigarette deserve to be used as ashtrays. Grandstanding & preaching should be saved for family members, good friends, & lovers, and only then in moderation (unless you WANT to start a fight). (Of course, my ex-gal rarely respected my request to not smoke when around me, and one time even kissed me after an inhale. Mmmm. Tar & lip gloss - mighty fine bouquet. Hence, ex-gal.)

Personally, the occasional clove is OK. (I think I've had, like, 3 in the past 2 years.) Regular cigarettes are ass, though. Never mind the carcinogenic factors - what about BURNS? Your clothes, your car upholstery, yourself? As far as relieving stress, I find ranting & raving like a potty-mouthed asylum patient does wonders. And is often somewhat amusing.

When my friends smoke, I just give them a wide berth, and offer a piece of chewing gum afterwards.

And my real problem isn't so much with the smoking itself, but the assholes that I seem to run into that can't respect my right to object.

As for cloves - argh! Those are horrible for you, they're worse than newports :)

As far as me dad (AKA The Boss), he got his karmic come-uppance at the office yesterday. He usually uses an emptied Coke can as his ashtray. Well, he drank his Coke (while watching TV - don't ask), then started ashing his ciggy in the can, and then inadvertently took a swig of said ashtray. Ah, if only I hadn't been sequestering myself in my office when it happened. Ah, yes.

David: EEEEEEW that's sick as fuck. I hate that, I won't even drink at a bar if I leave my drink unattended for a minute cos I know drunk assholes will accidentally(or purposefully, depending on the drunk asshole) ash in my drink. We had to use cups filled with water as ashtrays in the hotel, and the look of it turned my stomach to the point where I mad hunted for the stupid ashtray (which was inexplicably hidden).

For an illustration of just how different attitudes used to be, though, you should see the 1964 British TV adverts I was watching yesterday. The portrayal of smoking as something totally glamorous, aspirational, and sexy, makes me retrospectively vom.

Nothing to do with smoking making you unhealthy - so does lots of stuff. I was just saying that your argument of "well you know these places are going to be smoky and you went so dont complain when they are" seems pretty much on a level with someone saying "well you knew you were going to get grief from health fascists and you started smoking so dont complain when you do"

Whereas I reckon it is possible for you to know a thing has consequences, do the thing and still be allowed to complain about the consequences.

However the real menace here is Smoke Machines. I was at a club last night and got a faceful of CO2. I had to have two pints before my body could get enough oxygen back into the system for me to start dancing. Oh - and for the DJ to stop playing that fucking Mr Mister Tupac track.

I only think smoking is cool cos our landlord is an air steward and gets me cheap duty frees which my so-called friends steal.

However I generally try not to cause offence by smoking. What irritates me is when people claim not to mind me smoking near them then proceed to make an elaborate show of waving away any smoke that comes in a 10 foot radius of them. If you don't want me to smoke say so!

Drinking - now there's something that makes you a total freak from Mars if you don't do it, especially when you're 18 or so. Reactions to this from otherwise intelligent people are sometimes remarkably stupid.

"those alerts will bounce back to us if the address you type isn't valid." - Cool can i flood ya bitches?

as for smoking, seems here that posters should cite their nationality when making a point, cos as this thread shows attitudes/expectations/experiences of british and american people are a million miles apart...... out of interest, why did smokers here start up?

Red Malboro's btw, it's the law in Amsterdam to smoke those.

And yes, I know it's silly, but there's something so utterly, utterly cool about women smoking, see Dalle/Hardy/Moreau/Moss/Herrema. I can't help it, it's aesthetically correct.

Then again, if I did I'd probably smoke even more than I do. As it is, I average a pack-and-a-half a day. Ouch! P-U!

is there really no thread about the imminent UK-wide smoking ban?

i think we have many, and they all end up just the same.

ah here's one:

10 Steps To Fascism

There was a poll, I think. Except the facts were all wrong in it.

that's not a good start. i just wrote this for a...thing. Thoughts appreciated...

Let’s be clear about this: smoking looks cool. Smoking has always looked cool. Whether it’s a top-hatted Marlene Dietrich playing fag-ash Amy Jolly in Morocco, pipe-toting Cary Grant leaning on a mantelshelf, Winston Churchill chomping on a cigar or even that bloke on the cover of the first Arctic Monkeys album, a plume of smoke seeping from a tobacco-based product adds gravitas to one’s epigrams and an air of mystique to one’s demeanour.

But come 1 July, smokers in the UK are in trouble. As you’ve no doubt read, from this dreaded date we tabbers will no longer be able to emphasise a hard-thought nugget of pub philosophy with an emphatic jab of a cigarette. No longer can we initiate mildly flirtatious conversation with that cute, stained-fingered member of the opposite sex by asking for a light or a fag. Never again will we hear the reassuring “clunk-thump”, as the ludicrously expensive 16-pack of probably unwanted Benny Gold flops into the fag machine’s welcoming gutter. Smoke and be damned – indoors, at least.

It’s fair to say I’m not happy with this, and here’s why. Yes, gone are the days when surgeon generals lit a Senior Service after a life-saving lung cancer operation (well, I believed that scene in Back To The Future – didn’t you?), now we know that both active and passive smoking can do terrible and irreparable damage to the human body. But passionate, bronchial and proudly single-minded smokers deserve a choice as much as their unhappy, spluttering, ostentatiously hand-waving passive smoking neighbours. Up with this draconian, hand-holding, hectoring nanny-state drivel we will not put.

Have you ever tried to go to the cinema of an afternoon, only to find the place full to bursting with pram-wielding mums and their wailing, smelly, dribbling, attention-sapping spawn? The full gurning horror of the “mother and baby screening” has to be seen to be believed. But from these fearsome beginnings has sprung a new way of thinking: the “Smokers’ Paradise” is born. Staff a pub entirely with smokers! Only allow bands who smoke to perform! Make the non-puffers sign an “I will not whinge like a petulant milquetoast” waiver on entry! Purge this blanket ban nonsense – and for god’s sake treat us like adults.

Here is your ridiculous poll:

Should There Be A Smoking Ban?

Charlie, I pretty much agree with you, but the problem that will be raised by the 'all-smoking' pub is that some people may pretend to be smokers simply because they need the money - one may counter that this would be their own choice, but it could turn out to be putting the most disadvantaged people in the most risky positions. I'm sure nobody would find that situation acceptable.

Charlie why on earth did you go to a 'mother and baby' screening?

'the most disadvantaged people'?

haha also 'the most risky positions.' it's not working on an oil rig.

Economically disadvantaged (okay, perhaps 'disadvantaged' is not the best term, but it's obvious what is meant), hence having to take jobs that perhaps one might otherwise not want to, for instance a job where your risk of getting a terminal disease is highly increased. An 'all-smoking' pub would be more risky than a 'some-smoking' pub, too.

Also, I would personally be for the idea of the 'all-smoking' pub, but the argument against is certainly something that should be considered before backing the plan whole-heartedly.

"having to take jobs that perhaps one might otherwise not want to"

yeah jeez imagine...

if the government was more activist about economic exploitation this would hold up, but it isn't.

Charlie why on earth did you go to a 'mother and baby' screening?

for the sex of course.

(i was just using it as an example of a workable way to overcome something loads of people hate)

xpost emil.y i see your point but shelving the whole idea because a small percentage of the population *might* *potentially* suffer is as wrong-headed as the criminal justice bill's stop & search laws. i'd imagine about half the country's working in jobs it would rather not be working in, but welcome to 2007.

Dude, I'm not saying this would be the ONLY job which is like that, there are fuckloads that exist already, but why would you want to add another one to that list? And just because the government isn't activist about economic exploitation doesn't mean that it shouldn't be. This is my whole point, guh.

xpost: Charlie, I don't think it is like that. I can't see where the criminal justice bill fits in, could you explain further? Also, I phrased it mildly, but I'm not comparing it to working a shitty office job which you hate, I'm comparing it to other physically detrimental work, seeing it as a retrogressive step into working conditions that people would strike against even in the 1800s (okay, now I'm swinging from understatement to hyperbole, but surely someone must get the idea.

I'm comparing it to other physically detrimental work, seeing it as a retrogressive step into working conditions that people would strike against even in the 1800s

people didn't strike against the black lung in mines; they wouldn't in pubs. i bet you could together a studdy linking depression and obesity with office work and-boom-there's your physically detrimental work.

An example from the era off the top of my head: 1888 - Match Girl's strike against the physical effects of working with phosphorous. More pertinently (admittedly from wikipedia, but hey):

1969 Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act, 30 U.S.C. § 901 et seq. That law strengthened safety standards, increased Federal mine inspections, and gave coal miners specific safety and health rights. It provided lifetime disability benefits to coal miners totally disabled due to coal workers' pneumoconiosis and to the survivors of miners whose deaths were caused by coal workers' pneumoconiosis.

So, uh, people didn't just accept it as a hazard, it was seen as unacceptable.

i guess the key is for the state to give disability benefits to those affected rather than ban it outright then.

um, xpost to emil.y up there.

sure, i completely understand your point! but a. i'm only suggesting one day/night a week (like the mother & baby thing, kinda) - others have mentioned fully smoking venues etc, which i also think is a better idea than a flat ban - and b. i'm a utilitarianist - the greatest good for the greatest number innit.

i invoked the CJB because the stop & search legislation was based on apprehending and frisking people who *might* be on their way to an illegal rave or *might* be carrying drugs or whatever.

has the impetus for the ban come from bar workers?

people didn't strike against the black lung in mines

hahahaha what???

maybe not in ENGLAND

Without a ban it'd be only a matter of time before some serious class action suits were got up against pub owners and the breweries would be queuing up to impose bans themselves.

thank god for smoking bans
i'm tired of my clothes smelling like shit

man ally was pretty obnoxious in this thread back in '01

not saying its got a mark on me in '03 but still

have there been class action suits like that which have worked?

i am sswayed on this simply by my old boss, who had throat cancer, and who could hardly speak by the end of my tenure, who said passive smoking was a myth. i don't think it is, really. but i wouldn't compare it with miners' working conditions.

has the impetus for the ban come from bar workers?

it seems to be the main thrust of the shift, yes - and i concur with it in those terms. everyone else - vote with your feet, jeez.

Oh god, a billion xposts, sorry.

No, the impetus has not, and I'd be interested to see what the related unions think (are there in fact any barw orker's unions? I don't think I've ever heard of them, but there must be, surely?). Despite this, the strongest defences of the ban are those that focus on workers as opposed to other patrons/your own health, which are very easy to knock down.

Charlie, I must reiterate that I would be in favour of the kind of move that you suggest, though I see it working better in a dedicated venue, if only because if you were to get something like a smoking licence, that would cost money, so you'd probably be better off making that your niche market and sticking to it.

I also kind of see where you're coming from with the CJB, but it strikes me as different because those people might be doing something which is purportedly harmful to society (ha!) whereas the argument for the safety of workers is more based on traditional labour laws, and that they might be doing something that a) is harmful to themselves, and b) is not as voluntary as it could be. One is outward but the other inward. I might not have explained that well, if it seems like gibberish I'll try to rephrase.

LOL @ idea that anyone takes any notice of trades unions in the UK anymore

Well, kind of, but more BOO @ the fact that nobody takes any notice of trade unions in the UK anymore.

you have to accept a certain level of 'voluntary-ness' don't you? i suppose i'd have to ask bar staff, but it hasn't been my impression that they have been demanding this. being predominantly nz/australian/polish i doubt they're unionized.

You makes your bed, you lie in it. (xp)

being predominantly nz/australian/polish i doubt they're unionized.

you'd think they wouldn't mind working an extra hour or two at least on weekends either but OH NO most pubs still close at 11 on a Friday or Saturday dammit

it's weird that it is still true that virtually everyone i know smokes.

sure, i completely understand your point! but a. i'm only suggesting one day/night a week (like the mother & baby thing, kinda) - others have mentioned fully smoking venues etc, which i also think is a better idea than a flat ban
^^^ this is basically otm.

the saddest after-effect of the smoking ban in dc is that it's made a previously near-unnavigable strip of bars that was basically wholly populated by assholes even WORSE vis a vis ppl crowding the streets, fighting, stopping traffic, so on and so forth, so now a rather significant swath of assholes are breaking from the main bar strip (because it's now "ghetto") and ruining previously nice bars.

xpost lol yr pubs close at 11

apparently that's got feck-all to do with staff not wanting to work per se, and a lot to do with black cabs being loath to work the extra hours, thus rendering it a lot harder to get everyone ferried home post-tube and leaving them loitering around outside the pub for ages etc.

argh Xpost

it's weird that hardly anyone i know smokes!

but your pubs still close at 11 lol

Austin's pretty much abandoned it's smoking ban but we only go to bars/club every few months now so I really don't know how it's working out. On the other hand, perhaps associated with our giving up of bar life, I can only think of two friends who smoke. At gatherings they invetibly end up spending a large part of the night standing outside alone for their smoke. I feel sad for them.

they're not MY pubs scheffy

Austin's pretty much abandoned it's smoking ban

this is another thing that is true, that after like 6mos to a year every place i've gone to that has smoking bans seems to have a decent number of bars that just kind of abandoned the idea and basically have this "after 11:30 anything goes" policy, or some kind of "lol just hang your cigarette out the front window and TECHNICALLY you're outside" kind of thing going on, so it seems ineffective.

of course the other thing is that in my experience social smoking seems a lot more prevalent in america than elsewhere in the world?

xpost in a world where pubs close at 11, they are truly NO ONE'S pubs.

social smoking is apparently completely horribly *everywhere* in China. Germany's pretty bonkers too - you can still spark up in the bank there!

i can't quite believe england's going no-smoko in like two weeks. fucked up.

what!! germany banks are smokey?? crazyy

Hitler will be spinning in his... errrrrr

wow, germany, wow

What's so weird about smoky banks? You used to be able to smoke on planes and on the tube and stuff.

saner times

that's true... i remember when my mom and i were on an international flight, she got to like switch seats with someone who was sitting in the smoking section so she could have one of her benson and hedges... such a mom cigarette

You used to be able to smoke in, like, GROCERY STORES, which just blows up my brain.

ha... at the doctor's

is this all really about the ability of modern medicine to keep people quote-unquote "alive" for long after they want or need to be?

they used to have cigarettes in these stands in the grocerys stores in Nashville TN, these small stands around the store that were like completely unprotected, like anyone could take them. at 15 or whatever i was just lifting them right outta there, crazy

maybe xpost... i think ppl do wanna be alive for a long time tho, and the thing can kill u even b4 u don't want/need to be here anymore...

they think they want to live for a long time until they're 90 and totally dependent.

the thing can kill u even b4 u don't want/need to be here anymore...

yes, but it's all relative to so many things. it basically took me forever to accept that my body actually wanted it - not because of previous addiction but on a real basic physiological level. i don't want to be an advocate - i can only speak from my own experience. the two fundamental positives of it for me physiologically relate to digestion and helping me sleep.

basically, i think it's not going to go away and there's a reason why. i don't think that reason is decadence. the stigma that you're going to die is very strong and probably more of a problem for people in dealing with this subject than it is a benefit. i think it's caused problems and sickness (though, again, there are always a multiplicity of factors that go into why a particular person might have gotten sick) - sure - but i think our society hasn't fundamentally addressed the question of why it's used and how, if it's possible, it can be used without resulting in sickness and death.

Please. And condone the use of non-essential carcinogens that aren't fed to us by the FDA in our bacon? Your body is a temple, Tim. Get with the program.

yes but this:
i think it's caused problems and sickness (though, again, there are always a multiplicity of factors that go into why a particular person might have gotten sick) - sure

seems quite understated.

come on now Laurel no need to Patronize

have u ever known anyone who's died from smoking Tim? that hits home for sher.

There shd be a Brooklyn sports team called The Patrons. It just seems right.

even when i was a smoker i was thankful for the smoking ban.

i mean STANKY CLOTHES are gross.

i went to a mall in lewisham that allowed smoking inside--and this was in 2003. it kinda freaked me out!

lol Laurel... I actually work in a Patron Services office in Brooklyn, does that count?

this is another thing that is true, that after like 6mos to a year every place i've gone to that has smoking bans seems to have a decent number of bars that just kind of abandoned the idea and basically have this "after 11:30 anything goes" policy, or some kind of "lol just hang your cigarette out the front window and TECHNICALLY you're outside" kind of thing going on, so it seems ineffective.

That's the policy at one of my favorite bars here in Miami: after midnight the kitchen closes, so technically it's no longer an "eating establishment" and therefore one can smoke (Florida's Clean Air Act forbids smoking in any establishment whose total food sales constitute more than 10% of their grosses).

As a light to moderate smoker I haven't minded the change. Most bars here have a patio, and that's where we sit. Normally I can't stand secondhand smoke.

i have never smoked a cigarette. :/

but i think all the ilxors i've met are smokers?

okay not quite all, but pretty close

XP: Oh, is that why the random capitalization? I wasn't being Patronizing (sic) by the way, I'm a fairly committed smoker myself.

i haven't overly minded the ban either except in super crowded establishments where a small group getting up = you will have no seat when you return. i DO feel bad though for people who are non-smokers who just would like to sit outside though because now all of the smokers just hang outside and smoke all over them, it seems to concentrate the second-hand smoke whereas previously it'd be more evenly distributed around indoors and outdoors (if this makes sense?)

i don't think it's an understatement - i'm acknowledging that it's caused sickness and death and i can't really do any more than that. i just think the solution comes from a holistic view of it rather than from fear and stigma because, like i said, it's not going away and there are reasons why.

thank god for smoking bans
i'm tired of my clothes smelling like shit

OTM. I think bans are kind of bullshit and mean for smokers but at the same time I really really hate cigarette smoke. i also like the "break" it provides when smokers get up to go outside. it changes the mood of the room, you can move seats, etc. it's also fun sometimes as a non-smoker to go outside and hang with the smokers and shoot the shit.

the other thing is dancing in a cloud of cig smoke is kind of terrible. dont inhale too deeply now

people who dance while smoking in a crowded club should be punched in the face.

b-b-but that means you don't concentrate on who you're picking up! SMOKE GOGGLES

(xpost)

No ways, if dancing just turn cigarette into yr hand as if it's raining, that way you can't burn anyone.

or just keep it in your mouth and dramatically increase risk of cataracts later in life

laurel, the thing is that 98% of people fail to have the coordination to do such a thing at all.

basically i think the bottom line is that i basically agree with ppl who are bitching about RUDE smokers who go around oblivious to anyone else's thing but the problem is that 80% of people are just fucking rude and oblivious regardless so it offends me when non-smokers act like this is some kind of special thing.

Well yeah. Hence the misanthropy.

and i'm sorry but dancing in a v crowded establishment with FIRE in yr hand is pretty rude, guys. :/

i would never do this and i am angry at pplz who do such things and ruin indoor smoking for all of us ;_1

oh man i am ADDICTED to the bitterness of smokers. soo so good. i like to inhale all that sad cuntyness into my ungs ooh yeaah, and then just breathe it out right in their faces, just like a great cloud of satisfaction and schadenfreude. man after july 1st i am going to be able to do this even more. fucking good.

lungs

ok barry

you must be a real hit at parties.

My favourite thing about the smoking ban is that it has given people who don't smoke a license to stop people from smoking in their houses. This means that in the summer, everybody hangs around outside, smoking in the back garden until the wee hours and MAKING LOADS OF NOISE.

Oh yes, the two favourite ILE complaints. Smoking and noisy neighbours, together at last.

xxxp: lol yeah that is why the random capitalization - and i'm a fairly committed smoker myself, funnily enuf

i SO won't miss fag-hair after clubs.

i so won't miss people whining about smelling of cigarette smoke.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/douchebag-32667.jpg

go whine about "totalitarianism", littlejohn

i so won't miss people whining about smelling of cigarette smoke.

-- That one guy that quit, Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:10 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yeah only LAMES would complain about inhaling carcinogens just because they wanted to go grab a drink

basically yeah that's true

everybody who lives in a major city has to inhale carcinogens by the ton every year just because they have to go to work to pay the rent. fix that.

i don't know what that picture was of. i mean, obviously no-one in my immediate family has died of/been treated for cancer, i'm one of those horrible libertarians who wants everyone dead just so i can indulge my planet-endangering habit.

but perhaps by calling my opponents by the names of batshit columnists i will win, TOYNBEE. ohhhh the burn.

now that no one smokes in bars my parents are speaking to each other again

and my rent just went down, it's amazing

when i get home at night my clothes smell like roses and i can look myself in the mirror again

i only started smoking this year. what a gyp.

in the summer, everybody hangs around outside, smoking in the back garden until the wee hours and MAKING LOADS OF NOISE.

Right under my window when it is 35 degrees and I would, you know, quite like not to have to shut them all while I lie on the bed grumbling about global warming. Not that I'm suggesting people shouldn't smoke outside their own houses, obviously. I just wanted to whine on the internet.

I don't mind smoke in pubs much because, you know, it's what I was expecting when I went out, but some days I feel like crap after a night in a pub even if I wasn't drinking, and I'll be interested to see if that happens any less after the ban. Plus it's kind of annoying wearing freshly-washed going-out clothes knowing they'll be unwearably smoky afterwards.

I am really surprised how many people (including loads I was sure were smokers, or had been recently) have been so anti-smoking in all the arguments this has stirred up.

ah heaven

then they came for ass-rocket.jpg, and i said nothing

lol everyone's the devil's advocate on ILX ; )

xp
(zing!)

I hate froth mouthing ultra non-smokers. Urgh. So much so that I plan to start smoking once I delivered the baby (and stopped breastfeeding).

I wish. Sadly I am also a hypochondriac who almost ALWAYS thought of cancer when litting a cig. :-( God, I miss smoking so much.

public health-wise, this government needs to tackle the fatteys first. at least we pay taxes on our thing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/10/04/nsmokers04.jpg

tackling fatteys may be difficult, they have a low center of gravity

why does the goveernment need to tackle fatteys?

(that's the british not the dutch government)

whenever i come home from the pub my clothes all smell like funnel cake, it's ridiculous

without fatteys we wouldn't have pubs

why does the goveernment need to tackle fatteys?

-- Frogman Henry, Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:55 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

healthcare costs, lost earnings, general wear and tear

Cut It Out: Wearing out the sidewalks between the living room and the funnel-cake store, I pay taxes on that shit yo

everything in public spaces constantly covered in cheeto dust

8080 x 2

come home from the pub my hair and clothes all smelling like cool ranch

xxxp
something that is a fact of being human since forever and in every place vs an invention manufactured for profit. yes that is directly comparable.

haha yes those native americans sure pulled a fast one on us with their invention of the tobacco plant

doritos are "just an invention manufactured for profit" too.

much like the moroccans when they invented hashish. boy won't the amsterdamese feel stupid in a few decades, when they come home from the pub, and smell all hempy

waitresses forced to endure hour after hour of dorito breath just to feed their children

i don't smoke. it's nice (and still surprising) to come home from bars and shows and not smell of smoke, but it's not a particularly big deal to me. i don't mind kissing people who smoke. some of my best friends are smokers.

my mom has asthma. since i was a kid, if there was smoke anywhere near her vicinity, she would have uncontrollable coughing fits. on planes, if we were towards the back. in restaurants, because even when separate sections were legislated, the sections weren't necessarily that separate. at baseball games (!) where you technically didn't have the right to change your seat.

my mom learned not to go to bars and certain restaurants. and maybe the second-hand smoke cancer risks are overblown and the state has become too nannyish. and most smokers are actually very considerate--i like the unwritten law of letting strangers bum a smoke. but pick a vice that's less in non-partakers' faces if you want to fite--slip a pinch between your cheek and gum, shoot something in yr arm, turn yourself into a fattey I DON'T CARE JUST DON'T MAKE MOMMY COUGH

mmm doritos

i thought frogman was saying smoking was a fact of being human...

"haha yes those native americans sure pulled a fast one on us with their invention of the tobacco plant"

do you have a sideline business in rizlas and tobacco growing. if so i apologise. kudos for cutting out the middleman.

omg

"doritos are "just an invention manufactured for profit" too."

it's true. cave paintings show ancient fatteys digesting some kind of cheeto prototype.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING A FATTY?
http://static.flickr.com/42/123591434_139cfe0f6e.jpg

fatty and fattey are two completely different words

lol @ bitter smokers getting defensive about other people finding their dangerous and irritating habit annoying

lol @ when they basically turn that argument around but with 'non smokers' in place of 'smokers' because we know the only thing worse than inhaling carcinogens is complaining about inhaling carcinogens

tombot, you don't have to smoke hash dude.
(i imagine posting that is prob like a granny:eggs sitution, but still)

yes where "finding it annoying" = "banning it"

mmm

i am in flavour country

okay, i apologise for being obnoxious, but seriously, it is so cool that is happening.

= "banning it" in public

"fascists!"

i'm just letting of steam. just a bit of fun, let's all be cool/mark g.

okay, i apologise for being obnoxious, but seriously, it is so cool that is happening.

-- Frogman Henry, Wednesday, June 20, 2007 3:20 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yeah it's definitely cool. now when i go to buy my in-no-way unhealthy VOLUMES OF ALCOHOL my clothes won't smell.

well you see beer and whiskey are inventions of the white race

blah blah blah gin lane blah blah

oh, my volumes of alcohol are very healthy indeed

see this is what i mean. sooo cool.

i thought the tobaccoo lobby had some game, but they have really ballsed this thing up. given the labour government's arse-licking attitude towards fucking las vegas casino dons, surely they could have been flipped with ease by the cig giants.

right right and maybe i should stop eating red meat because i think smoking is annoying, or driving a car, or eating non-organic food, or sitting in an office all day

basically yes or you could alternatively shut up

deej accept and expound syllogistic fallacies or shut up.

i don't even understand deej's point.

something to do with outlawing stuff because he finds it annoying.

just observing silliness of 'wtf you can't be worried about your health at a bar, you're drinking alcohol anyway!'

okay not being able to smoke in a casino is just wrong. i've changed my tune.

i can't invision going to vegas and not smoking some rank capri menthol while pumping quarters into a slot machine.

hott

sorry, my mistake.

pumping nickels into a slot machine, not quarters.

If you smoke, please try Carlton.

just observing silliness of 'wtf you can't be worried about your health at a bar, you're drinking alcohol anyway!'

-- deej, Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:06 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

if the argument against smoking is it's bad for your health, costs the taxpayer, etc, don't see how. being a nicotine addict is less generally harmful than being an alcohol addict. zealotry pushes arguments into stupid shapes. there could easily be a sane compromise on this.

1. when you are at a bar no one is making you drink but you are forced to breathe the same air as everyone else
1a. the basis for the ban is that it is a WORKPLACE and as such the folks working there need to be working in a safe environment, therefore smoking = an actual danger to them

2. you can drink and not, you know, be an alcoholic.

just observing silliness of 'wtf you can't be worried about your health at a bar, you're drinking alcohol anyway!'

How can anyone disagree with this? Smoking equates to drinking about as much as strippers compares to drinking. Hey, what the fuck, I'm having a drink anyway, I might as well look at some tits!

waht?

There isn't a picture on the web that can't be captioned with the phrase "WHERE THE TITTIES AT???" (picture thread)

"They're here to DRINK, anyway! Why you health inspectors gotta bust my balls? So we got rats, so what? They're drinkin' over here, don't you get dat?"

deej, are you saying there are no public health issues related to drink? i wouldn't deny that smoking in underventilated bars causes some problems for staff that need to be managed. i still think an outright ban is not the right idea.

of course there are but its a totally separate issue and bringing it into this debate is disingenuous and clouds the actual issue being discussed

I think the only health issues related to drink that affect other people involve vomit or fighting. Perhaps piss all over the toilet seat. Not really the same as smoke in the air.

1. when you are at a bar no one is making you drink but you are forced to breathe the same air as everyone else

NO-ONE IS MAKING YOU GO TO THE BAR, FASCIST.

1a. the basis for the ban is that it is a WORKPLACE and as such the folks working there need to be working in a safe environment, therefore smoking = an actual danger to them

COULD THIS BE MANAGED WITHOUT RECOURSE TO A BAN? LIKE, YOU COULD HAVE SMOKING AND NON-SMOKING PUBS, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES?

xpost

how? drinking is a public health issue, smoking is a public health issue. the actual issue -- modifying behaviour via legislation -- is the same.

I think the only health issues related to drink that affect other people involve vomit or fighting. Perhaps piss all over the toilet seat. Not really the same as smoke in the air.

no.

you are a clown

Wait, this is funny. In no way is the smoker a fascist, then? What do you think of guys who walk into a public space with a blaring radio?

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/mceater/RadioRaheemLOVEHATEsmaller.jpg

that guy was awesome(ly stupid), but I did like that one song.

NO-ONE IS MAKING YOU GO TO THE BAR, FASCIST.

right, they're keeping me from going to the bar

everybody wins

...thanks to a smoking ban!

Guys, guys, we did this passive drinking v passive smoking before. It was funny!

Scotland Bans Smoking In Public Places

Hey, what the fuck, I'm having a drink anyway, I might as well look at some tits!

wait, this is true.

also basically the most obnoxious person on this thread is deej? you've gone out of your way to humorlessly reinterpret every single post as "bitterness"? which basically makes you look like the type of bitter git that no one wants to have a drink with, ban or no ban, so really OTM on "everyone wins" with you staying out of bars.

Not if you happen to hate tits!

Haha YES re "everyone wins". That deserves a zing slot, really, just for tidy-ness.

But, how does everyone win if only the smokers win?

wah wah wah they won't let me smoke in bars
what a bunch of crybabies working for a living in a toxic environment

"but what about smoke-filled bars, listening to jazz/putting dollar bills into g-strings/etc"

that's gone! sometimes things change, permanently, their window is closed and something new comes along

like metallic leggings

i go out w/ friends who smoke to bars all the time and i'm not an asshole to them but i have no problem telling them where i stand on the ban if it comes up in conversation. i dont care if they want to smoke and i don't complain about it around folks who do. I smoke occasionally when i've been drinking a lot or whatever and my dad smoked for years.

But I dont see how in 2007 you can really defend that kind of atmosphere, yr clothes end up smelling and yr eyes water and it fucks with my sinuses and all this other shit just because you want to go out and have a drink with your friends. Never mind the clearly underlined health issues related. I don't understand how you can try to turn this into me being the selfish one because i eagerly await being able to breath w/out inhaling cancer every time i go out.

yes humorless blah blah blah i didn't see too much funnee going on in this thread before either but whatever

we've had no smoking in all workplaces here now for two or three years, and everyone got used to it.

smokers bitched, non-smokers were smug, but most reasonable people just got used to it.

when anyone is out now, they usually just go to the smoking section outside in the pubs/clubs anyway, cos that's where all the hot chicks/guys are.

What's the consensus on outrageous b.o.?

if it's someone you know well, definitely take em aside and let em know its a problem. if you don't know them that well, complain loudly and move.

Does the same apply to smokers?

no, because we already know it's a problem, we just don't actually care

What's the consensus on outrageous b.o.?

probably not carcinogenic? just guessing.

But you enjoy the smell, yes?

As long as it's not American Spirits -- that shit is nasty.

I didn't realize American Spirits was b.o.

Me, I like to mist the air everywhere I go. If people don't like it, they can kiss my ass! It's very refreshing and a little water never hurt nobody!

deej, are you saying there are no public health issues related to drink? i wouldn't deny that smoking in underventilated bars causes some problems for staff that need to be managed. i still think an outright ban is not the right idea.

-- That one guy that quit, Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:22 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

of course there are but its a totally separate issue and bringing it into this debate is disingenuous and clouds the actual issue being discussed

-- deej, Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:25 PM (Yesterday)

it's not a totally separate issue at all - it's the original reason i revived this thread!

cf, my original final para:

Staff a pub entirely with smokers! Only allow bands who smoke to perform! Make the non-puffers sign an “I will not whinge like a petulant milquetoast” waiver on entry! Purge this blanket ban nonsense – and for god’s sake treat us like adults.

Make the non-puffers sign an “I will not whinge like a petulant milquetoast” waiver on entry!

or just ban them from the place ala 'no team shirts'

i guess i'm in favour of smoking pubs and non-smoking pubs (would be interesting to see which places opt for what and differences to business) - esp. as it wouldn't really affect my social life either way.

if it's someone you know well, definitely take em aside and let em know its a problem. if you don't know them that well, complain loudly and move.

really? You "complain loudly" at, like, homeless people on the bus? "You STINK! Also, GET A JOB!"

just because one is a smoker doesnt mean that they should have to work in an environment blanketed with tobacco smoke.

lots of people are willing to work in unsafe conditions for money but the government still regulates it.

i mean because so few people i know smoke as it is so i could be in the non-smoking places with most of my friends most of the time. (xpost x2)

deej, the thing is that basically one person is arguing with you at all and everyone else is advocating things like smoking licenses for clubs to apply for and other available options rather than blanket bans, so you kind of sound like a broken record douchebag. barely anyone is trying to claim you as being "selfish" or anything else yet you keep rambling on about how bitter and whiny everyone on this thread is. HI STOP BEING AN ASSHOLE, THE "EVERYONE WINS" ZING WAS BASICALLY IN REGARDS TO YOU, SPECIFICALLY YOU, STAYING HOME AND NOT COMING OUT, EVER.

yes i got the 'zing' and i think its corny and uh i actually am arguing with the idea that there should be 'smoking bars' or whatever

i guess i'm in favour of smoking pubs and non-smoking pubs (would be interesting to see which places opt for what and differences to business) - esp. as it wouldn't really affect my social life either way.

was directly responding to this

Now he feels singled out.

in what way was "waaah waah waah" a direct response to that?

he should feel singled out

no teddy bear? come on.

the teddy bear is only for you.

i started off responding to 'that one guy who quit' and you started getting all aggy about it, excuse me

i mean am i wrong or did i not start the 'wah wah' until you called me the 'most obnoxious person in the thread' for actually discussing the issue with 'one guy'

I love it when Ally calls people obnoxious. It's like jaymc calling someone defensive.

hugs, ally.

deej, nobody likes someone telling them they shouldn't be able to do what they want to do. Look at NAMBLA!

Best to just sit in smug silence as the USA goes totally smoke-free. Then, when they all start saying, "ya know, I actually feel better! Fuck them all! I'm glad I quit! Haha, I win!" you can pull out your gun and shoot them.

jesus fucking christ

too much?

yeah yeah i'll back off now, didnt really want this to be playing the
http://pics.vintagepostcards.com/f/f4153.jpg

about this but i was sensing a weird persecution complex or something i dunno

really? You "complain loudly" at, like, homeless people on the bus? "You STINK! Also, GET A JOB!"

absolutely. i consider it one of my many free public services.

Even though I'm a smoker and have had this stance in the past I have to admit, the 'but drinkers!' argument doesn't really wash, being as it doesn't really affect other people's health (aggresive drunks bashing ppl etc notwithstanding, but thats a strawman). I've always also argued for smoker's bars... I can't see why not. I'm ok with it all, but I'm going to find nightclubs weird to handle next month when our bans come in.

Pubs here, not a problem. We have a lot of beer gardens here; outdoor areas you can drink in, sometimes even heated/covered but outside. So a lot of places will still be fine. Just not actual clubs, which is the one I will have to deal with.

smoking in bars, cafes, restaurants, workplaces etc. is completely banned in NZ, since a couple of years ago. before that, there was this one smoke-free bar... it lasted a few months before going bust, 'cos everyone knows the cool kids are all smokers :). personally, i was gutted when i first found out about the smoking bans, but guess what? now i only go to bars (in winter) that feature covered outside smoking areas. and then i stay out there all night. it surely is the best way to meet new people.

the 'but drinkers!' argument doesn't really wash, being as it doesn't really affect other people's health (aggresive drunks bashing ppl etc notwithstanding, but thats a strawman).

alcohol abuse is possibly a bigger problem in binge-drinking britain than wherever you are. because we have publicly funded health, the question of whether it 'only' affects the person who drinks is moot: we all have to pay for people who abuse their bodies.* and the effects of alcohol abuse are much more widespread than aggressive drunks. it fucks up families.

*i don't really think it's productive going down that path; but i think the smoking ban opens the door to a lot more legislation of this kind, limiting healthcare access to people if they're fatteys/extreme sports people/drunks/addicts/etc.

Hahaha god, I can assure you heartily it is a BIG PROBLEM in Australia too.

Also, I agree with you abt booze.

let battle commence! http://blogs.orange.co.uk/news/health/index.html

the comments on the anti-ban thread are hilarious, to whit:

We are on the way down the road to Nazism,since it was Hitler and his gang of thugs who FIRST brought in this totally discriminating law in...I say to the anti freedom trash...If you don`t like the smell of smoke..,GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN...Our Fathers and Fore-Fathers fought and died in a couple of World wars,and other so called smaller wars,all in the NAME OF FREEDOM AND LIBERTY..Shame on you Westminister

and

who said smoking is a killer? how do they know that for sure, have they implanted a set amount of babies in 2 rooms for 50 years or more cos that is the only way u know for sure. they only go on statistics cos more people died who smoked but remember there used to be nearly about 80% of the country smoking so u would get a higher figure, all the nasties in fags are in your food 2 and basicaly in your everyday life, there are more dangers in pollution from cars and lorry's than fags. did you know theres over 1000 chemicals in coffee alone most likely the same that r in fags.drink is a bigger killer than smoking

and my favourite

i would like to no why i can not smoke in my own work van who the hell is that hurting i have checked under the seat for do gooders non found this law is an ass,they are going to waist millions trying to enforce this pile of crap i agree not smoking in pubs ect but my personal space is rubish , so if i fancy a fag its just pull on the hard shoulder on the m25 then is it.

gawd bless England.

the 'hard shoulder' bit makes it art.

there used to be nearly about 80% of the country smoking

uh?

during the war you got em for free. a LOT of people smoked.

i agree with deej

They showed this program on, I think it was, Blackpool and the problem of smoking. I don't know why they lumped those together, maybe some twisted fucked up guy thought it was a great idea, who knows. Anyway as much as I miss spmoking, it was kinda sad to see what the long term effects are of smoking and how smokers can really block that out.

it was kinda sad to see what the long term effects are of smoking and how smokers can really block that out.

It's funny!
http://www.perpetualkid.com/productimages/lg/ASHT-0645.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42449000/jpg/_42449836_smokeban203pa.jpg

8080:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2119888,00.html

I'm a smoker who lives in California. I moved out here from the mid-west, and it was a real shock at first not to be able to smoke in bars. I thought it would really bother me, but the weather is so mild here that I almost like it.

There are a few bars that manage to get around the smoking rules somehow, and when I go to them I find that I feel shittier the next day from chain smoking.

All in all, I'd say I like the camaraderie of the "smoke pit" (which unfortunately for some neighborhoods, is the sidewalk out in front of the bar), but really I tend to go out less than I did before. Maybe it's because I'm just getting old and would rather hang out with my cat and my girl than a bunch of poon-chasing "bros", or maybe it's because at home the beer is cheaper, the music better, and I can enjoy both with a smoke, the way it's meant to be.

All in all, I live a pretty isolated life. Non-smokers are fine, but anti-smokers can fuck right off. When smoking is illegal everywhere, they'll find some other thing to cry about. I've no room in my life for those types.

a bunch of poon-chasing "bros"

I want to be one of their number

lol

They must imitate the early Quakers, retreat to a hut in the hills, and light a pipe of peace with the world. But the big clunking fist will get them in the end.

pwned.

it's ok, i get it, you hate our freedom.

ally, you have really good skin for a smoker!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6912900.stm

"A former British heavyweight boxer was shot when he asked customers at a club to stop smoking."

that's the mean streets of, er, Fulham for ya.

the guy is SIX FEET NINE as well!

but apparently the smokers were actually outside, so frankly (according to my flatmate's gf last night) he should've just shut up.