OMG, We're having an election too! Canada Votes 2008

Nobody knows why but Harper, but we're going to the polls on Oct 14.

I hate that we're going to end up with another Conservative minority (at best) but at least a) it'll only take a month and b) it'll give the Libs an excuse to get rid of that useless windbag Dion.

We're definitely going to see another minority...could still go either way, but yeah most likely Tory Minority.

Question: Are we still legally required to have another election next year?

I don't think so.

i will admit to being one of those people who's terrified shitless at the idea of a Con majority.
officially ran out of shit this morning.

this thread needs jrock. i saw him posting in the Tor Star comments in lieu of ilx!

also: PUFFINS!!!

Con majority seems unlikely...but hardly impossible.

can't you guys get illegal ids and vote in the US or something? please

I'm totally gonna vote for a winning candidate for the first time ever. Also, for an incumbent for the first time ever. In terms of the bigger picture, however, I share Thermo's fears.

(I kind of like Dion and don't totally know why no one else seems to.)

I kind of like Dion too, and find myself getting behind him more and more. He gave a really, really good speech (or rather, the speech was well-written) on poverty last fall, and his dog's name is Kyoto ffs.

Seriously, if I was him, I would just run clips of Harper denying climate change juxtaposed with crumbling ice shelf and win the fucking election already.

ending with that line of his from a few years ago ( i can only paraphrase) "when i'm done with this country you won't be able to recognise it"

hey, I kind of like Dion too.

really though, what an odd election. Harper hasn't done enough over the last couple years to secure himself a majority, so this whole thing seems like a massive waste of time and money. shouldn't people be whining more about how Harper is wasting their tax dollars on a pointless election?

i have heard that whine a fair amount actually.
if i thought there was a decent shot at ridding us of Harper this election could not cost enough! sadly...

Oh man, election news I can get into and understand yet not freak out completely about the possible results! Awesome!

I'm going to be out of the country in October and I'm debating whether or not to bother going through the special ballot application process. It's a massive pain, and I live in David Emerson's riding which will not be recaptured by the tories. I'm pretty happy with either Libs or the NDP winning (I kinda like Dion too! More than those Liberal PMs, that's for sure). Still I've voted in every election I could since I've been legal and it feels weird to just ignore it.

i saw him posting in the Tor Star comments in lieu of ilx!

I don't dislike Dion as much as most people seem to.. I certainly dislike Harper more. I'm in Carolyn Bennett's riding, but I think my boyfriend is going to volunteer for Olivia again.. we're dirty NDPers!

I'm in one of the few (only?) ridings that swang Lib to NDP in the last election (Peggy Nash / Parkdale-High-Park), and it will probably stay that way (tons of orange signs already, and Nash is quite active). Curious about other potnetial swing ridings this time around, but sadly I don't think the Cons are going to lose a lot of seats...

I used to be in Parkdale-High Park.. SO exciting to be in the pub (I've been out of the area too long, I forgot the name! Base of Jane & Bloor) when Nash's votes started coming in in (2006?)!

Rob - isn't Kennedy running for the Libs in your riding??? if he is Peggy may have a hard time holding on to her seat!

I live in David Emerson's riding which will not be recaptured by the tories.

I was wondering about this. living in Ontario i have no idea who would face the wrath over his crossing. i guess either way the NDP did pretty good last time and this can only help them. the question is: after being stabbed in the back once by a Liberal will they elect another one there?

I thought of doing the special ballot thing too, but I think by the time I send away for it and get one back it'd be too late for it to return to Canada on time to be counted. I tried to vote in the recent Alberta election and found getting the special ballot a bit of a hassle.

And really, since both of the ridings I'm elegible to vote in are in Alberta, neither has any chance of going anything but Conservative. Probably not worth the effort... especially in Calgary West, where Rob fucking Anders somehow keeps winning despite being a complete buffoon.

tons of orange signs

Windsor West (Brian Masse's riding) is pretty incredible. I've only seen orange signs so far.

Hey so I have a question. Do people typically vote for their specific MP or for the potential PM? I'm sure it's a little of both, but.

My MP is Gilles Duceppe. I hope the Bloc does really well and kicks the Conservative d-bags out of QC. Then the Liberals can come in next time and steal some seats from the Bloc and form a minority government etc. etc. etc. etc.

For some reason I thought you were in Saskatchewan or Alberta. I'm not sure why.

Hey so I have a question. Do people typically vote for their specific MP or for the potential PM? I'm sure it's a little of both, but.

Yes it is. tis a simple equation: if i like the local MP greater than i dislike the person vying for PM then they git ma vote.

For some reason I thought you were in Saskatchewan or Alberta. I'm not sure why.

― Sundar, Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

My NEW MP is Gilles Duceppe. My OLD MP was a Conservative who got one of his aides to impersonate him on a call-in radio show. True Western Tales!

i have a lawn sign.

STEPHEN MOORE FOR WASCANA.

he has a phd in medieval literature.

No dis to fos but I'm kind of glad I don't have to choose between the Bloc and the Conservatives.

guys, i think i have found my candidate!

I also learned that I represent this capitalised entity known as ANDREW MONTAGUE CECIL on all of my government issued I.D., as well as my confirmation certificate, and I do not condone what was done to me at birth.

I don't even know which riding I'm in. And I think I'm going to be out of the country on E-Day. Hmmmm. Maybe I should look into things.

I'm going to be out of the country in October and I'm debating whether or not to bother going through the special ballot application process. It's a massive pain, and I live in David Emerson's riding which will not be recaptured by the tories. I'm pretty happy with either Libs or the NDP winning (I kinda like Dion too! More than those Liberal PMs, that's for sure). Still I've voted in every election I could since I've been legal and it feels weird to just ignore it.

i happen to be organising canvassers for the NDP in Kingsway. and, well, i want yr vote. send me an email and i'll make sure you know how to vote advance.

re. MP vs PM in voter choice, it's hard to say, and def. depends on the riding. y'know, Svend kept willing because he was Svend, but i guarantee that Nina Grewal, for instance, is a placeholder for Harper.

My OLD MP was a Conservative who got one of his aides to impersonate him on a call-in radio show.

Rahim Jaffer! what a guy. The NDP have a realistic chance of picking him off, y'know - they were only 3k votes back in Edmonnton-Strathcona last time. wouldn't that be something.

Ah, I'm in Vancouver Centre. Okay, I can probably stomach voting for Hedy Fry (lib).
Michael Byers (NDP) seems interesting, though.

Are the Grits really facing their worst showing since '84 as the "liberal" media reports? WTF Canada!

The Green candidate handing out fliers at Davie and Thurlow today seemed nice. Too bad I don't actually live in this area.

You're in Van!

Indeed. It'll be sometime in November before I'll actually be able to enjoy the place, though.

apparently you can go to the returning office any time and vote w/ a write in ballot. in Kingsway the office is at kingsway and knight or something. the nominations are still open so if yr party has no candidate, you can just write the party name and it will still count.

my candidate was certified today, very exciting. we got the official maps!

I swear, man: Those PCs love to call totally fucking useless autumn elections to coincide with the concurrent USA elections whenever they have an opportunity - especially if they anticipate a Republican president. Hope this doesn't hurt Obama.

Me? Voting Green as usual.

I try to focus on voting "local" for the MP. I guess I've been lucky that I haven't come across a situation where the "best" person for the job in my riding (in my opinion), is with a party I don't believe in...

isn't Kennedy running for the Libs in your riding???

Yes, but I've seen ONE Kennedy sign so far, whereas all the orange Nash signs are blinding. I realize lawn signs aren't exactly a reliable indicator, but in this case I'm assuming the Parkdale/High-Park NDP seat is fairly solid.

who's your candidate, derrick?

for some reason ndp supporters seem to love them some yard signs way more than any other party's supporters. i've noticed this in both of the last two federal elections.
anyways - i wouldn't count kennedy out - Nash barely won the riding last time around.

NDP voters = not embarrassed by their choice

my parents used to wear "Don't Blame Me, I Voted NDP" pins.

as if it magically let them off the hook for my shoddy upbringing

where can thermo get these pins?

1989

Looking like an NDP vote for me (the only candidate with a chance of unseating the Conservative). My first Canadian vote, too, since I got my Citizenship in early 2006.

:)

D0n Dav1es, Vancouver Kingsway.

Lostandfound, what's yr riding? Bryan too, what riding??

i am very interested in the Peggy Nash/Kennedy race. hell, i am interested in all of them, except for Quebec and Alberta and PEI and parts of Ontario.

even Western Arctic is interesting!

I'll be voting in North Vancouver, and likely for Don Bell, the Liberal incumbent. The Conservatives are running a strong candidate (Andrew Saxton, a property developer running on an anti-crime platform) here so I'll likely vote Liberal even though I usually vote NDP or Green. As Liberals go, Bell seems ok so voting strategically isn't bothersome in this case.

Christ: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080920/n_canada_reuters/canada_politics_col

Ha ha, what the fuck??? Canadian right-wing party's leader is TO THE RIGHT of U.S. right-wing party's nominee on climate change.

derrrick - why no interest in Quebec? with the Bloc's grip slipping i'm really interested to see where the votes go. it'll probably decide the election!

re. quebec, i'm not interested because i don't understand it! i've got a pretty good grasp of vote determining communities and issues in BC, a decent background on the prairies and parts of ontario, but in most of the maritimes, big parts of ontario(e.g. 'clarington-scugog-uxbridge') and quebec, ESPECIALLY quebec, i have no idea why things go the way they do. i agree that it's a 'crucial battleground,' for sure, but i don't understand what the vote determination would be in, say, sherbrooke, between the libs, bloc, and cons. i just can't follow it.

i mean, i get the broader stuff, i know canada pretty well, but without understanding the details of why things are changing or developing in a given direction, it's hard to be interested!

working on a campaign, day in, day out, the only thing to do is ignore the national stuff, put everything beyond the riding boundaries out of mind, and pretend that the only people anywhere live between 16th and 41st, oak and boundary.

You can't get listeriosis from FRESH MEAT

I think I kinda love Gilles Duceppe

Fuck a Harper Majority. Really. Why? How? I just don't understand how The People find Dion THAT repellent!

Okay, that's a little more like it.

this is pretty fucking wtf!

I'm guessing that maybe it's not so much that people find Dion repellent as just that he hasn't been that good at playing the political game, e.g. in the sense of really exploiting potential Harper cabinet scandals, being able to spin Harper policies in a way that people would see them as awful, etc? I'm guessing? Because, really, he's probably less uncharismatic than Harper.

ya - i noticed the strong fundamentals things too. Harper borrows to many republican talking points it's disturbing!
• "liberal media bias"
• "cut and run"
• "tax and spend"
• "ivory tower liberal elitists"
• "In 1991, after the invasion of Kuwait, the world judged the Iraqi regime to be a dangerous aggressor. In the interests of world peace and regional security, the community of nations expelled Iraq from Kuwait; required Iraq to surrender its offensive arsenal, its chemical and biological weapons; and to abandon its nuclear weapons program. Iraq agreed to comply with these demands as an enormous and victorious force of allied troops and personnel, not just American and British, but Canadians as well stood ready to invade..."

and so forth

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081001/national/couillard_bernier

lol Bernier. Julie Couillard alleges Bernier "thought Harper had a lousy sense of style, was fat and unhealthy and that he drank too much Pepsi" and that he "was relieved he was going out with Couillard because he hadn't had a girlfriend in two years and because some of his political colleagues thought he was gay as he was friends with an openly gay fellow cabinet minister."

also lol Bernier's "political colleagues," presumably the MPs who very pointedly choose to have their electoral photo taken in a cowboy hat.

man i'm having a rough time trying to catch what's going on with the french debate right now!

I love Harper's translator.

harper is mr. happy. dion is mr. rogers.
duceppe i agreed with the most, the only one who wanted the kyoto protocol back, and the one i can't vote for.
jack layton thinks sweaters are the key issue on everyone's mind.
eliz may was the most wonkish. surprising for a candidate who has 0 chance of getting into office.

Now to watch the US VP debate on youtube.

I watched the U.S. VP debate (much lols), but I'm a little ashamed of that, to be honest. Of course, it was going to be a lot more interesting, but in terms of its impact on our wonderful Kanukistan, I'm not entirely sure...

(incoherent, sorry)

so - according to Ipsos:

Among those who changed their vote, 37% say they would now vote NDP, 26% say they would now Liberal, 25% say they would now vote Green, and 9% say they would now vote Conservative.

could barely understand Dion last night. Man! I thought Elizabeth May was really charming in a bed-in for peace, you can be it if you believe it sort of way. Jack Layton kind of came off like an ass, as always. Stephen Harper KILLED me when they all started talking about how terrible it was that he cut funding to the arts and he started talking about "My whole family are artists" and giving a $500 arts credit to famillies, as if the entire Canadian arts industry is one big kindergarten class doing arts and crafts! Fuck off!

I am still voting NDP but I wish they would work with the Green party to form a viable third option instead of barely recognizable third and fourth options.

oh, and Duceppe, I love that man. It must be nice to go into these things knowing you've got no chance so you can say whatever you like. Elizabeth May really WANTS a chance, so she isn't as blase about it as she could be.

one of our writers, a pretty affable if opinionated person, called conservative party headquarters in ottawa to get on their email list and when he gave his email address, which references a left-leaning organization, they were super rude, called him an anarchist and hung up on him!

not surprising but still WTF

WTF? I mean, how could he have?: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jaZcs5xcMZIZD-igI-QX2zAX5B7w

I thought May was great and I've never been a Green supporter. Really assertive in bringing up the right issues, making sensible points, and backing herself up soundly. I was actually a little surprised by how much Layton was siding with her. I thought he handled himself well enough, though he does the classic NDP thing of constantly/shrilling repeating catchphrases ("banks and oil companies", etc). Duceppe = classic as ever. I seriously wonder how much the Bloc would be willing to team up with other left-leaning opposition parties. For real, they've been the biggest Quebec party for a while without accomplishing much for separatism. However, I could totally see them being an effective force for the progressive causes that they do seem to tend to advocate. I'm not being 100% facetious here. And, yeah, it only really hit me last night just how rough poor Dion's English is.

(And I totally want to jam with Stephen Harper's kids.)

Duceppe would make a good dipper!

I think Dion's made great strides in his English, but I can understand why Alberta (or even Manitoba) gets scared when they hear him try to say "economy"

So this carbon tax idea: classic or dud?

i think people out west are sort of feeling jack layton for the first time since he replaced alexa, esp the debate. that toronto piano playing pussy vibe has sort of faded and i dig the kitchen table thing. what are those banks and oil companies doing for my goddamn kitchen table, am i right? and stephane dion is obv not a viable alternative because he's ridiculous and can't speak english.

i shook ralph goodale's hand in my university food court. he looked down at my pizza and said, "well, i'll let you get back to that!"

When I was in Vancouver a year ago I caught Elizabeth May giving a press conference on tv (which baffled me, as the tv showed her press conference speech for half an hour and then the Q&A that followed -- for a candidate with no chance! -- it was a shock, as an American) -- anyway, I liked her, thought she was smart and her head was in the right place. I don't know how politically effective she'd be.

But because of that, I've actually seen more of her in action than any of the other candidates, including Harper.

Nobody sees Harper in action...that's his secret. He's the invisible hand everyone talks about.

you know BC's a big deal for the NDP when layton is spending half the week here, or at least a couple days.

we are hosting a breakfast rally for him on monday at 7.30 am.

i love that ralph goodale story.

I'm finally catching up with the debate ... May was really strong, made some great summary points, and definitely looked like she belonged. Duceppe was good as always, and Dion's contributions were shockingly great in content if not in delivery (ya, troubles with English, etc). Harper has the calm, reserved confidence thing down pat and held up well under attack, which I freely admit even if I don't like the guy. Jack Layton, with his smarmy attitude, pithy soundbites, and low blow personal attacks, showed (yet again) that he's a bush league politician with no real agenda other than to criticize the ideas put forward by real party leaders. Seriously, his attack strategy is pretty much indistinguishable from that of the US Republicans at this point.

I think Layton's better than you give credit for but I'll freely concede that, from what I've watched, the last few federal NDP leaders have sometimes tended to take an aggressive sound-bite-ish attack approach, like some kind of bizarro populism without the popular appeal. Like they're trying to channel Tommy Douglas or something by repeating 30s-ish rhetoric. The thing is, I think their platforms (insofar as I've followed them) are generally quite reasonable, well-thought-out, balanced, and really not even terribly socialist. I'm not the best person to judge whether this gap (as I see it) between their actual ideas and their public presentation of them works in their favour or not but it does seem striking to me.

And, yeah, Harper surprised me a little too.

ya. Layton's sweater jokes and constant prattling about evol "banks and oil companies" was tiresome indeed. i keep saying - as well as he's done with the party - he really needs to go. i'll most likely still be voting for his little lady tho.

There may be hope.

This may be a damaging strategy though. Really, it seems like it'd be most sensible for opposition parties to go for a strategic anyone-but-Harper approach.

not really. not when you're the ndp or greens.

speaking strictly about what's good for their respective parties.

I don't want to believe the new poll numbers because there's always a final week, post-debate swing happen in every federal Canadian election campaign and they never hold up on election day.

Can we agree that the best part of the debate was Duceppe's answer to the question of "what would be the first thing you'd do as PM?" I was rolling on the floor over here, I seriously had to rewind that and watch it about five times in a row.

I also really liked the "round table" debate format (definitely better than podiums when five people are in the discussion) and the fact that we saw a really strong *debate* where actual issues were discussed and people got to respond to criticisms and accusations, rather than the show-and-tell presentation that the Americans try to pass off as a "debate".

Yeah, that Duceppe moment was great. Is that the first time a candidate has openly said that he has zero expectation of winning?? I agree about the 'round table' and the calibre of the debate. TBH, I haven't watched the US debates so far but I'll try to watch the next one. (I'm a little amazed that some Canadians took more interest in the US vice-presidential debate than in our own leaders' debate.)

Something that was interesting to me was how much some leaders, particularly May, but even Dion sometimes, referred to Western European countries as models. It might be a good trend, especially because I've sometimes agreed with this Idealistic Pragmatist post. (That said, I haven't spent much time in Europe myself.)

Is that the first time a candidate has openly said that he has zero expectation of winning??

Duceppe knows he won't win because his party only runs candidates in Quebec -- and he wouldn't want to win anyhow because he's a separatist! I was mainly referring to how he said "these three here aren't going to win" (while pointing at them) and that they all know it even though some of them won't say it.

(You're right, yes.)

Here's something scary going on in my riding. I neither drive nor vote Liberal but I DO walk around!

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20081005/450_bennett_081005.jpg
Vandals hit 25 homes displaying Liberal signs | Updated Sun. Oct. 5 2008 7:00 PM ET | ctvtoronto.ca

Vandals attacked at least 25 homes in Toronto this weekend, cutting off phones and cable lines, spray-painting property and cutting brake lines on a number of vehicles.
All the homes had a sign on their front lawn that showed their support for the Liberal party, political officials said.
On Saturday night, 11 homes in the Parkdale-High Park riding, located in the city's west end, were vandalized. The night before, 14 homes in the St. Paul's riding in midtown Toronto suffered the same fate.
Staff Sgt. Glenn Gray, with Toronto police 53 Division, refused to confirm a motive behind the attacks, telling CTV.ca it was too early in the investigation to comment.
However, Liberal MP Carolyn Bennett, who represents the St. Paul's riding where the vandalism occurred Friday night, posted a note on her blog condemning the "life-threatening" acts.
"I was sickened to hear today about several acts of vandalism involving cutting the brake lines on the cars of Liberal supporters in my riding," she wrote on Saturday. "This dangerous threat to our democracy must stop."
Bennett said several cars had the letter "L" scratched on them, and that her campaign's official agent was one of the people who had property vandalized.
"(He) went through a stop sign and nearly hit a bus because he did not know that his brake lines had been cut," she said in the blog.
She called on her supporters to be vigilant and to carry a camera to photograph anyone suspicious in their area. However, she also acknowledged the possible danger of putting a Liberal sign on a front lawn in plain site to vandals.
"We of course understand if supporters choose to take down their signs...But we would very much like to catch the people doing these vile acts," she said. "We cannot give into these people who are putting the lives of engaged citizens at risk."
In a news release published Sunday, she said if the attacks can't be stopped, she would work with her supporters to remove the lawn signs and ask other candidates to do the same.
Bennett said she spent Saturday phoning her supporters to warn them of the attacks.
Jennifer Lithgow, a homeowner in Bennet's riding said she figured out her brakes weren't working soon after buckling in her six-year-old daughter into the car.
"I can't believe that anyone would do that -- it's dangerous," she told The Canadian Press. "I could have hurt myself or my daughter who was in the car at the time. I could have hurt somebody else if I hadn't been able to stop."
She said she will not take down her lawn sign, despite the possibility that she was targeted because of it.
"I don't want to give in because that's probably one of the things they're after, for me to take my sign down, so I don't want to," Lithgow said.
Bennett said a lot of supporters she's spoken with have shown the same defiance. Some have even asked for bigger lawn signs, she said. However, others -- single women and the elderly -- have taken their signs down, she said.
"People are quite shaken," she told CTV Newsnet Sunday evening. "Someone could have been killed -- someone could have died."
This isn't the first time Liberal supporters have been targeted.
Earlier this year, voters living in Willowdale were also victimized leading up to a byelection in March. In August, supporters in Guelph had their property defaced.
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion condemned the recent incidents, saying in the news release that "there is no place for these types of dangerous and reckless intimidation tactics in our democracy."
Police will step up their nightly patrol in the area, said authorities.

re: "referred to Western European countries as models"

New John Ralston Saul book (according to G&M review) suggests that Canada draws, or should draw, as much from First Nations concepts of nationhood etc as from British and American models. Really want to read it.

also, WTF is this Colombia now?

finally got around to watching the English debates. Stephen Harper's incessant smirk annoyed me after about ten minutes, but it was somewhat counteracted by hearing Dion try to say 'infrastructure' (I mean that in a nice way. it made me giggle). I've never had the Green party at the top of my list, but I'm glad they let Elizabeth May in this year... she and her party deserved the chance, and I think she took full advantage of it and performed very, very well. was also a bit surprised that although Harper acknowledged her politely every time she spoke against him, he didn't seem to have anything to say back to her. I don't kow if it's just cos he didn't know what to say or cos he didn't feel he should waste his energy or what, but she brought up some interesting points and he just let them go undisputed.

I think a lot of my earlier ambivalence towards the Greens was because they seemed to be largely a single-issue party with a haphazard platform scattered over the political spectrum. this time around their platform is a lot more solid and definitely left of centre. I'm sure her party will get a larger share of votes this time around, but I'd be curious to see which party she's taking voters from — will her new voters be largely disenchanted NDP or Liberal supporters?

I thought this election was going to be really pointless and dull, but it's actually turning out to be pretty interesting... largely due to sudden economic problems and increased Green party profile on a national level. can't wait to find out the voting results next week...

[still kind of secretly hoping for an NDP/Green merger at some point maybe, though. they do feel interchangeable in a lot of areas.]

alot of people running the greens used to be PC'ers, so don't hold your breath!

For reals? Are they just addicted to losing?

Green is also the colour of money, fools. Well, some money.
I voted on Saturday, so that I can go out of the country next week and not find out the results until the 20th or something.
If only I had known that the Conservative Party was going to have a platform in this election, I might have voted for them!

if it wasn't for all the volunteers and voters i talk to all day, i wouldn't believe that people were still living their lives as they always do, because i have seen no physical evidence. my world has basically shrunk to an office, situated in a riding, and there isn't really anything else.

a lot of people think we will win, but we've lost here the last four times. who knows?

i found out recently my cousin is running as a Lib somewhere in Edmonton!

madness!

derrrick, apologies, I got distracted and forgot all about this thread(!), but here's my (very belated) answer:

Pitt Meadows - Maple Ridge - Mission

Incidentally, it's not the same degree of severe WTFness as Finefinemusic reports on upthread (cutting brake lines!), but here I'm noticing extensive vandalism of the NDP candidate's election signs all over town this last week.

so how outraged are we that Dion has difficulty understanding a question?

saving my outrage for the fact that the dollar took it's biggest one-day dive in a generation two days before I spend a week in the USA.
Sounds like there's almost as much outrage over Harper's jumping all over Dion's bad form.

I'm debating whether to transfer over a bit more money now, or to see what will happen, or whether I really want to think about these things at all!

If I had the luxury, I'd wait to see what happens on Wed morning, but I had to buy some US bux today and I got hose(re)d.

oh wait, but low loonie is good for you, right?

(and really, I guess, good for the economy, too)

also, ILC is paging Casuistry

Low loonie is good for me except about half my moneys are in loonie right now. Such as my fortunes are. But if the loonie continues to plummet then part 2 of my student loans will have me living LIKE A KING!

I'll check out ILC, which I haven't done in ages...

so it's time for thermo thinwall's super election prediction fun time!

CON • 130
LIB • 90
NDP • 40
BQ • 47
IND • 2
GRN • a big fat zero!

You guys seriously can't be bothered to have a fivethirtyeight type site, can you.

http://nodice.ca/elections/canada/projections.php

No map, no cred.

http://www.electionprediction.org/2007_fed/index.php

You haven't even looked at fivethirtyeight, have you?

http://www.wlu.ca/lispop/fedblog/?page_id=46

i looked at it.
you asked for map. i gave you map.
second one is better.

no pie charts tho.

I want fancy statistics overload! I want lightly orange ridings speckled with red! Or something!

xp MUCH better.

it's a little tougher with a real democracy and our crazy five parties!
xpost

That map seems a bit off, or maybe just over-general. The two Windsor ridings and probably Ottawa Centre are relatively safe NDP ridings.

Cons will surely win more seats than any individual party but, pipe-dreaming now, is there any possibility of an opposition accord like what happened in Ontario in '85? Seems like Layton might be too stubborn/arrogant to go for it though.

(I hope the Greens do better than zero, at least enough to keep the BC seat, but am not sure of the chances of that either.)

"overly general"

BTW what's the deal with Saskatchewan? Why'd they end up turning their backs on the NDP federally? (I mean, I can think of reasons...)

is there any possibility of an opposition accord like what happened in Ontario in '85? Seems like Layton might be too stubborn/arrogant to go for it though.

I wanted to ask about this but thought maybe I was just being a stupid Americaner.

sundar - i'm predicting the dippers will gain more seats than any other party combined! with Dion being hammered by the Cons since the day after he was made the Liberal leader and Harper being, well, what he is - there's a good amount of ridings in Ontario and BC where the NDP needs the slightest of nudges to take them. Thunder Bay and the Nickle Belt i'm thinking an NDP storming of those areas is pretty likely.

also, i think the NDP will be back in Sask in at least one riding after tomorrow.

as for a power-sharing if Harper gets defeated... while possible - I think Layton would jump at the opportunity, even tho he's said otherwise. it's Dion and the likeliness of those two parties having enough combined power to do much more than the Cons that i see making that situation unlikely.

that is - defeated after he forms the next gov't.

Even your predicted numbers could make it possible so long as the Bloc would vote down a Conservative govt. I realize it's unlikely they'd do anything for the Liberals, though it'd make more sense in some ways.

(1 riding isn't enough! But, no, someone who knows Saskatchewan explain it... It's the birthplace of the CCF and is often NDP-dominated provincially, though I know Calvert lost the last election. But it provided NDP seats federally until not too long ago... Is it just social conservatism that sways it to the right?)

(But, like 16 years of provincial NDP govts until 07.)

BTW what's the deal with Saskatchewan? Why'd they end up turning their backs on the NDP federally?

Western alienation. The province has been largely voting right wing since the late-90s. Doesn't help that those of us in the more left-leaning cities have to share constituencies with rural areas, where the smalltown vote is arch-conservative.

Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar has the best chance of getting an NDP upset, I think. And smalltown folks are very forgiving, so look for Gerry Ritz to be re-elected despite his infamous listeria comments and his weeks spent in hiding.

agree 100%

i'm glad that the place i go to vote is an elementary school - makes the whole thing seem more worthwhile, yknow, future of the country and all. i guess we'll see...

(somehow i seem to usually live in NDP strongholds, which, for me, is a good thing)

I don't think I've ever voted in anything other than an elementary school or a community centre. It does get the civic/democratic pride/duty bubbling a bit, doesn't it?

I miss voting in elementary schools, and pressing levers, and all that stuff. Voting was more tactile. But voting by mail (as we do in Oregon, as I have to do voting absentee in Canada) is very pleasant and convenient and in many ways less stressful.

A high school for me, but yeah. My first vote in a Canadian election, I'm stoked.

Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar has the best chance of getting an NDP upset, I think. And smalltown folks are very forgiving [of Conservatives], so look for Gerry Ritz to be re-elected despite his infamous listeria comments and his weeks spent in hiding.

― A. Begrand, Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:34 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is not looking good

Not really, no. Although a (total) fantasy Liberal-Bloc-NDP coalition would still totally kick ass.

Dear God. It's only getting worse.

this thread is weird

this country is weird.

How so?

xpost Ah, fair point.

fuck i hate john baird. get off my tv

Preliminary thoughts:

1. Canada will never have another francophone PM. If the Liberals ever want to govern again they need to reckon with the increasing isolationism and francophobia (or, one might say, contempt for History) of the West. Get a English guy NOW.

2. Poor, dear, Elizabeth May. What a nice lady! Canadians have overwhelmingly chosen to embrace meanspiritedness, but Elizabeth May is nice!

Aaarrgh! Gerrard Kennedy is leading Peggy Nash in Parkdale-High Park (my riding). Despite the fact that I actually think a lot better of him now than 6 weeks ago, Kennedy should be made to pay for making Dion the Liberal leader. I'm very pleasantly surprised that Harper doesn't seem to be headed for a majority, but let's face it - with Dion leading the Liberals, he really should be.

so another conservative minority. but a stronger one.

xpost - told you guys!

Re Sask: I'm playing dumb a little but for the sake of argument, why should Western alienation mean they want to back the governing party, the party of big business and free-market economics? I get Alberta no problem: It's always elected Conservative govts provincially and it's an oil-money province. And I can understand socially conservative tendencies in rural prairie ridings. But I'm curious why there'd be such a dichotomy between SK's leanings provincially and federally. Is Layton just perceived as too 'Toronto'?

Buncha xposts Well don't blame me. Over 50% of my riding voted NDP. But, fuck, the rest of Southern Ontario!

And I was really really hoping for a Green MP! Maybe another Liberal will cross!

Also, fuck that, I'd love to see another francophone PM! One that can actually get Quebec on board.

(I get what you're saying but "never" is a strong word, no?)

You can't "get Quebec on board." If the Bloc were to tank and leave the other parties to fight over its corpse, sure, but that would absolutely have to happen first and it isn't going to.

man - watching the coverage on Global is brutal.
what a bunch of conservative hacks - talking about "if" Ignateiff "manages" to win his riding (all other stations have called it for him) - saying that Dion is going to have to step down with his seat count in the lower 70s (while even their own ticker had him in the upper 70s for the last 10 minutes - ugh!

and Edmonton Sherwood Park - might not vote in a conservative - in favour of a...
conservative!

I bet CTV is way worse. xpost.

cbc correspondents are v v good-looking too

No, I got what you meant, salmon. "Never" just seemed a little strong (considering the Bloc is what, 15 years old?).

so Turner gets the boot - no surprise. what i don't get is Finley getting voting back in even after there were tobacco farmers literally committing suicide because they thought their MP and gov't had lied to them and abandoned them.

xpost - they can pretend balance ok. most of the time. except when they phrase questions in a confusing tense.

ya - the Bloc came out of nowhere fast (relatively speaking). really with their entire reason d'etre evaporated - they could easily fold just as quick.
i've always said Duceppe would make a good dipper!

speaking of the NDP - 38 seats as it stands!

"saying that Dion is going to have to step down with his seat count in the lower 70s (while even their own ticker had him in the upper 70s for the last 10 minutes - ugh!"

Dion does have to go. I like the guy. He seems genuine, honest and I would certainly have taken his class as an undergrad, but he doesn't get people fired up. In what may serve as some small consolation, I think a lot of the things he talked about will one day become a part of the conventional wisdom. Scandanavia has had various types of carbon taxes in place for years, and they've been largely effective. Back in the 80s, the environment was primarily the domain of the "fringe left", but now you have Harper, Bush and McCain talking about climate change. He has been fairly ineffective as a leader, but he definitely brought something necessary to the discourse.

really with their entire reason d'etre evaporated - they could easily fold just as quick.
thought you were talking about liberals here for a minute

ha ha!

j-rock - Mulroney had a halfway decent track-record on the environment iirc!

a lot of greens came from the old PC party. May and the dude before her - both PC'ers

does anyone here know about an AB?? did every seat but one go to the conservatives except one seat that may go to a dude who sd his biggest desire was... to be a conservative?? and that dude is some old white guy and he was running against a sikh dude so... good job AB!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/map/2008/

(Re AB: yes.)

yup. go one party province!

"Mulroney had a halfway decent track-record on the environment iirc!"

That's fair. He's been recognized for that, and did push Reagan on acid rain, but the environment was never a major part of any (Progressive) Conservative platform, and certainly not something that the rank file believed in fervently like the Greens in Europe, or even the NDP.

maybe. i'm not really sure how we can know for sure, all we have is what they did and it was certainly better than Cretiens job on that front.

Maybe it was just a typo, or your subconscious manifesting itself, but your spelling of "Chretien" was awfully close to "cretin".

wow - that cbc map is awesome - thanks sundar!!

ha ha. i actually liked the guy alright!

As expected, it's a slugfest in Saskatoon Rosetown-Biggar...NDP leads by 43 votes with 13 polls to go. Pretty much the only excitement in what's been a depressing, not to mention pointless exercise.

Hey, there actually was a Communist candidate in my riding!

What's the threshold for a majority? 155? Is there any chance at this point that Harper might hit that?

There were 2 Communist candidates in my riding: CPC and CPC (M-L).

according to cbc.ca 155 is the threshold and harper mathematically cannot win that many seats at this point.

COMMIEFIGHT!!!

^^^ national review headline for thier article about canada's election btw

ha!

lol

(IIRC the Marxist-Leninists still defend Stalin so I'd hitch my wagon to the CPC. But that's just what I recall.)

we;re forgetting the big story right now - **Conservatives lead in Nunavut**

I thought the distinction between the Communist parties was the big story?

Dippers totally rock the Western Arctic though.

i thought the big story was canada votes overwhelmingly in favor of status quo

and outremont! i didn't think they could do it

mind you they haven't done it yet

xpost. no - it's nunatut

they're the bellwether territory.

Well, I for one want to know who stands where on the Sino-Soviet split. PRIORITIES PEOPLE.

haha it took me a minute to figure out what a "dipper" was. just fyi for anyone that cares voting outside of canada is some bullshit. the despair and disinterest this election has engendered is some cold consolation for that

xpost Leona Aglukkaq ftw

outremont goes to thomas mulcair!!!

I just moved to North Vancouver and now I want to leave North Vancouver. IDIOTS.

Come to Kingsway, we just elected a good New Democrat!

just fyi for anyone that cares voting outside of canada is some bullshit.

I also learned that lesson this time around. Pretty much the only thing I'll remember about this election in five years time is how ridiculously incompetent and unhelpful embassy officials are when it comes to this stuff.

I could live in Kingsway. You got a Superstore?

xposts, I didn't even bother with trying to remote vote this time. It was shambolic enough when I tried to vote from overseas in the Alberta election earlier in the year, in part because the timeframe is so narrow that I'm not even sure special ballots make it in time to be counted (they can't send them out until two weeks after election is called, but that leaves only two weeks to receive the ballot and send it back!). Anyway, I looked at the thing I would've had to send in to get a special ballot for the federal election, but none of the address on my IDs match my parents' riding, which is I guess my address in Canada, so it was all confusing and looked like way too much effort just to vote in a province where conservatives will always win anyway.

However, the people in my various Alberta ridings were really, really helpful with trying to send me a ballot during the provincial election. It was like they actually cared people were making an effort, and so they really went out of their way to send my ballot out and sort out where I should be voting and so on. Super friendly bunch, they were, even though they probably all voted conservative. But yeah, too bad the experience with federal special ballots was so disheartening.

Oh well. Maybe next time?

I guess I was wrong upthread about my riding (Parkdale-High Park) staying with Nash. A relatively close race, but I clearly underestimated Kennedy's support! So I suppose that Dion will step down and either Kennedy or Rae will take over the Lib leadership. Or am I way off there? Kennedy has been practicing his French, apparently...

I wonder what it's like to have the federal party leader as the MP in your riding - are they too focused on party leadership to address local/riding issues on a regular basis? Or is it a plus to have the party 'big cheese' as your MP?

a little of both. i was reading that some people were getting a little miffed at Layton being away from his own riding so much (for obv reasons).

i wouldn't be surprised to see Ignatieff getting the leadership. not sure how good idea that is tho - with how much Harper got away with on account of the last liberal change in leadership.

Wow, sad to see Peggy Nash lose Parkdale-High Park last night.. I remember the cheer that echoed around Bloor west when she was first elected.

I voted NDP in my riding despite knowing Carolyn Bennett would win it, and she did, but it was a real slap in the face when the first few numbers that came in gave the Greens the third place finish that the NDP eventually won..

ugggghh
not a surprise, i know, but still wtffff

apparently canadians are afraid of cities

at least i live in outremont riding. tho obv the struggle on national level continues. but also obv i am beginning to see the bloc's point.

derrrick, wasn't it Kingsway where Emerson ran as a Liberal and crossed the floor once he was elected?

Oh well. Maybe next time?

elections canada keeps making it harder to vote from abroad. srlsy like they really didn't even want to give me a special ballot saying i had been out of the country too long.

It'll be interesting to see if the Liberal PR folks start pushing hard to improve Justin Trudeau's image in Quebec. Anyone else think he could be the future of the Liberal party? He won yesterday, btw, in spite of the parody. He's not his father so he might do better than horrible in the west.

this is the west we're talking about, dude.

Yes, but would he be better or worse than Dion for their chances in the west? Doesn't matter I guess since they're probably at least 5 years away from considering him.

I just moved to North Vancouver and now I want to leave North Vancouver. IDIOTS.

wait, Bryan formerly of Winnipeg? I didn't know you were in the PacNW!

(sorry)

Yup! Moved out here 5 weeks ago. I'm not going to get to enjoy being here for another month or so, though, thanks to stupid work.

well that and the weather from November on is ass until May.

well, ass in a pizzly way, not in a fatally freezing way.

i'm sure for Bryan this winter is going to seem like Hawaii out there.

He's not his father so he might do better than horrible in the west.

But he's still a Trudeau, and that'll be enough for conservative Albertans to disregard him. If anything, a future Trudeau leadership would just piss off conservative Albertans, or give them more reasons to whine about alienation, although I don't know about the rest of the west.

^true. god forbid the liberals should be shut out of Alberta!

Exactly. Sure enough, JT's name is being thrown in regardless of his qualifications: http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=6c01dd4f-843b-4027-8d96-db007dc4677f

If Bob Rae becomes leader I might vote Liberal with a clear conscience next year next election. He's so Muppet-y!

So --

No one is talking about Linda Duncan (NDP) snagging a seat in Edmonton?

:D

i mentioned it earlier to little fan-fair. Edmonton, Outremont and St John's are all pretty fantastic (historic) gains for the little guy!

It's true -- the NDP appear to have unseated the Grits as the leftist party of choice in urban Canada (with the exception of Montreal and Toronto).

Speaking of which, the Liberals are looking sort of irrelevant outside of Toronto and Montreal, aren't they? I mean, they were hammered pretty much everywhere else, even in Ontario. And I suspect that a lot of T.O./Mtl people vote Liberal more due to habit than merit these days (I count myself among that group), which is definitely not a healthy sign for the future of the party.

the only party that got more votes (total) than the last time is the Greens. i think a lot of liberal voters stayed home this time around.
i'll bet real money that next election, if we see an uptick in turnout we'll see a surge in Lib support.

It is just that people don't like Dion?

"It is just that people don't like Dion?'

I actually don't think that's it at all. Most people, myself included, seem to like Dion, but acknowledge that he shouldn't be leader of the party. A lot of things have been said about the guy, but no one ever says he's not a nice man. It's just that sending him up against Harper is like taking a plastic fork to a gun fight. The outcome was never in doubt. The Liberals know that they still have to spend a bit more time in the penalty box over the sponsorship fiasco, and never expected to win this election anyway. Dion was their version of Kim Campbell. Also, I think a lot of people are losing patience with having elections every year-and-a-half. Voter fatigue, and a distinct lack of charisma all around (apologies to Jack Layton, and Duceppe - kinda) was certainly a factor in the low turnout this time around

my short answer to that would be this: most people believed he wanted to raise their taxes.

I actually meant "like" as in "like as a leader", not the weird "want to go have a beer with" sense of like that modern politics seems to ludicrously revolve around (at least in the States).

Yeah, after this campaign, I can't see Dion as the PM in any way, shape, or form. I certainly wouldn't want him to leave politics though, and he's a valuable asset for the Liberals, even if his best role isn't as leader. But historically, the Libs tend to stick with their leaders for a while so I wouldn't bet on him stepping down anytime soon.

not sure wether him staying or going would be the better move.

i know if he did step down it would be playing right into Harpers' game plan. he has stated publicly that his goal is to destroy the liberal party (not, like, lead the nation or something more altruistic, no) - so having Dion step down and someone else take over and all that's involved in that would be exactly what he wants.

When Dion took over the leadership Harper had his attacks ads ready to go almost right away (god forbid he should concentrate on running the fucking country, not what the liberals are up to). "Dion is not a leader", this and that - had it been anyone else, they would have attacked just as hard no matter who it was. that's the plan.

in a way i see it as Dion having been vetted by the cons already. their attack message is now old news and a new leader would mean a whole new pack of rabid attack messages. "Rae is not capable of managing the economy" "Ignateiff is not a Canadian" "Kennedy has poor eyesight and is gay for Dion". you get the idea.

on the other hand you just cannot rely on a leader with the kind of poor showing Dion had. so it's pretty much a no-win situation.

I agree -- a leadership change would mean new attack messages and give the impression that the Liberal party is in disarray (which it kind of is, but forget that for now). Lots of across-the-board political turmoil can and will happen before the next election, which will give Dion plenty of time to hone his act and plenty of ammunition against the Tories. Dalton McGuinty also fared badly during his first election campaign and look how far he's come along since ... OK, maybe this is a bad example ...

i must admit thinking up attack headlines was fun!

"John Manley: not manley enough."
"Martha Hall Findley is missing a Y chromosome."
"Frank McKenna? No he kanna not!"
"Scott Bryson: he's gay, people!"

So, yes, good-bye Dion.

Thank you, TTC News Service and longish wait on the Yonge line this evening.

hahaha that clip is priceless! Although it could have been better if Dion had created his own Chretien moment and started choking the guy. I was rooting for that.

CTV is fucking evil trash.

a station that remains steadfast in thinking it's a good idea to employ ben mulroney is no friend of mine

and also, degrassi is a shell of its former self

I finally watched the infamous CTV interview -- not just the restarts, but the entire interview. Now that I've seen the entire thing, I don't see how anyone can say that Dion didn't get jobbed by the jackasses at CTV. He had no trouble answering any of the follow-up questions. His English is fine. The initial question wasn't clear, and he was correct to ask for more clarification -- which never happened, btw, because all Murphy did was ask the same question in pretty much the same way. And when he didn't get exactly the answer he wanted, he kept pressing Dion and wouldn't let it go for the first five minutes of the interview proper. Dion simply rolled with it and tried to answer as best he could.

This is all academic now that Dion's finished as of tomorrow, but anyway, screw you CTV.

It was a poorly worded question, but he should have been able to answer using whatever interpretation he wanted without having to restart. I don't watch CTV/ATV local programming (Steve Murphy is creepy) so I never saw it on TV; I had to watch it on youtube.

Your politicians try to clarify questions so that they can actually answer them? Seriously, you guys are completely adorable.

otm?

Your politicians try to clarify questions so that they can actually answer them? Seriously, you guys are completely adorable.

Yeah, but look where it gets them.

yes, Kingsway is Emerson's old seat. this was a very symbolic victory!

my candidate won with about a 2,800 vote margin - abt 6% of the vote.

Ha, excellent!. I remember at the time e-mailing Emerson with my disapproval of the patent unfairness of his actions even though it isn't my riding. He didn't reply of course. ;)

I also remember now (come to think of it), the extraordinary tenacity of the protesters at the time, showing up daily for months after he pulled his little stunt.

as well they should have! and i'm glad the voters in his riding have responded in the way they did in the election.

so dion is gone come may. looks like the Libs are going for another ride on the merry-go-round!

Ignatieff? Rae? Who else, realistically?

the usual suspects i guess. maybe Kennedy again.
if they knew what was good for them (ha!) either Rae or Iggy would back out so that they can go into the convention with a front runner and as little collateral damage as possible. (probably Rae would do best to sit this one out, y'know with a recession and all)

I forgot about Kennedy. What little I know of him, I like though.

So you guys aren't talking about how sad it is that Dion is publicly blaming "Tory propaganda" for his poor showing in the election? "We would have won if the Tories hadn't been so mean to us!" If this is what he really believes (and not just a way to deflect attention from his own campaign fuckups) then it's true, he has no business being leader because he doesn't have the stomach to succeed in federal politics.

well, the sad thing is, he pretty much *had* succeeded up until he became the liberal leader.

Yeah, he just couldn't succeed at the level he's at now. It's a textbook case of the Peter Principle in action!

ha ha, v. true!

re: Sask

Most of the urban ridings are still really rural, so the hep city folk vote gets cancelled out.
Palliser, for eg, which has the southwest corner of Regina, traditionally the most progressive folks, went to a former mayor of Moose Jaw for the Conservatives, who beat an NDP former mayor of Moose Jaw, and the Liberal former Police Chief of Regina.
Saskatchewan has lately come around to thinking it's Alberta, even though it's actually more like Manitoba.

right. i keep hearing about how saskatchewan has MORE OIL THAN ALBERTA but no one wants to come and get it because saskatchewan is a backwards socialist province, unlike alberta, where everyone drives 2009 f350s and lives in minimansions outside calgary. vote conservative.

i think hep city folk in palliser are pretty likely to vote conservative, too, nowadays.

like, ironically?

yeah. like how they're into roller derby and shit.

This has probably been mentioned on the newscasts, but I read just now that Dion and Edward Blake (party leader from 1880-1887) are the only Liberal leaders to never become PM.

So that's yet another unfortunate record held by poor Dion :(

yeah, but Blake was KERAZY
http://www.dorkclub.com/watchmen_comedian.jpg

i like his smiley pin.

It's also precisely the kind of ruthless attitude we need to rid ourselves of these Conservative d-bags.

Travis Bickle for Liberal Leader!

So... Nunavut voted today? Are they copying the American election or the Canadian?

neither by the looks of things - everyone's an independent!?

So, it looks like we may have a Prime Minister Dion after all?

Or Prime Minister Goodale. Or Prime Minister McCallum. Or Prime Minister Ignatieff.

it's madness. my mind is blown that it came to this so fast!

seriously. what the fuck was Harper thinking?

Defence Minister Peter MacKay told The Chronicle Herald that the opposition will blink. "When they play chicken, they wind up looking up like chickens," he said.

I have to hand it to the crazy mofo, it takes balls to be slinging that kind of mud when they're in the situation they're in.

I'd usually be the last person to give props to Randall Denley but he makes some good points (even from a right-wing perspective):

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=12dd0bfd-ce83-49cb-b55c-3c7aa30e02c4

Can the opposition parties work together though?

Also, WTF?

Serious question: when was the last time the GG had to make a real decision?

And what's this about an "unidentified Tory" being invited to the secret Jack Layton EVOL planning session? If he was invited, then taping conversations is perfectly legal, isn't it? It's 2008, Watergate happened 36 years ago, and nobody would be stupid enough to blatantly record the oppositions' conversations, right?

Check out this CBC interview transcript with Harper from Sept 2004 (when the Libs had been elected as a minority govt and Harper was the new leader of the opposition). There are some choice bits here, such as:

Solomon: Would you describe this government's position because of its lack of consultation as precarious?

Harper: I'd describe it more as arrogant. And I think the real problem that we're facing already is that the government doesn't accept that it got a minority.

http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/harper.html

Is the coalition government going to happen? This is exciting.

I love the Canadians who say that creating a government with majority support in parliament amounts to a coup d'etat.

yeah, the reader responses on this story are full of that sort of thing and people carelessly throwing around various C-words

If you look up "coup" in the dictionary; it says: "a sudden violent over`throw of a government by a small group"...

Is this what Canadian Democracy has come to from the NDP and Liberal parties of all things?

Canada, we have to speak up! Talk about Communism!

I for one would love to see the NDP and Libs OF ALL THINGS take up arms and storm parliament

Canadians are so used to majority govts that they've forgotten how minority govts (i.e. most govts in the world) are supposed to work!

With this guy manning the barricades in the HoC, I think even a rabble led by Stephane Dion might be able to succeed with a violent takeover:

http://web.ncf.ca/ek867/harper1.jpg

^i'm pretty sure they'd have all the guns, unfortunately.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081201/national/parliament_crisis

http://macleans.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/081127_wells1.jpg

I don't know who the photo editor of the Maclean's blog is, but he/she deserves a medal.

http://macleans.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/081201_dion.jpg

wow. 18 hacks appointed to Senate while the house is prorogued. including... Mike Duffy?!?!?

oh. and then he goes on to appoint Cromwell to the supreme court even tho he promised a public hearing on the issue. now that's job creation!

so...time for a new thread?

new gov't.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/media/ALeqM5gTmr1cjPH2P4dQ6GQYs2Xu8AUKDQ?size=l

can Ignatieff pull it off?

i so don't even give a shit about this election.

Not again...

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6520/giantdouchevsturdsandwich7om.jpg

douche vs turd sandwich... also vs guy with mustache vs french dude, but who cares.

as if reading my mind (or my GIS), the star has this to say!

Wait a second, the bloke from the Late Show is trying to be prime minister of Canada? I really am out of the loop.