I mean, is there a cogent argument why Jonathan Ross isn't worth a thousand journalists?

russell brand - C or D?

1. He's a git

2. He never ever ever ever ever ever stops talking

From Wikipedia:

Envy (also called invidiousness) may be defined as an emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another’s superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."

It can also derive from a sense of low self-esteem that results from an upward social comparison threatening a person's self image: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been him or her who had the desired object.

Bertrand Russell said envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness. It is a universal and most unfortunate aspect of human nature because not only is the envious person rendered unhappy by his envy, but also wishes to inflict misfortune on others.

Although envy is generally seen as something negative, Russell also believed that envy was a driving force behind the movement towards democracy and must be endured in order to achieve a more just social system.

3. the haircut

There are, of course, differing degrees of Asperger syndrome.

4. Disproportionately high support base when talent like Paul O'Grady Graham Norton Ant & Dec Loose Women okay let me have a think about this one.

exactly!

The dilemma is that I cannot stand him but can't think of anyone better.

(that is still living/working)

he made They Think Its All Over completely unwatchable.

he made *.* completely unwatchable.

(warning: opinions)

2. He never ever ever ever ever ever stops talking

lol yes *shudderss* opinions. but i agree with this one as well

I'm struggling to try and think of anyone who made They Think It's All Over watchable!

I've no real antipathy toward him. I'm gonna miss not watching his talk show. He likes comics, so that's a plus. He's a big kid who has been given too much freedom, and got away with a lot. I can't think of any 'journalists' I like.

Also, don't forget, he's not PAUL Ross. Things could be worse.

I can't remember who was in Ross's place before?

actually yes, xp to Marcello, i hate Hancock too.

i always cringed when someone i liked went on his talk show (eg janet jackson, serena williams) - he'd do his thing of constantly interrupting them to make smut jokes or lech on them and generally take the piss, and they'd always end up sitting there with this rictus grin on their face, just enduring the awful experience of being bellowed at by this strange little man. listening to ross's voice really coarsens the soul.

agh flashback to when he read out janet's sexier lyrics in his retarded voice aaargh, brain brillo pad please

Paul ross. Now presenting on Bid-up TV...

Not this very second (prob)

Lex, most chat shows that aren't Parkinson do this. It's a shit format really regardless of whoever's hosting as they always end up looking like smug 'look at me' cunts, or complete sycophants, or both.

Fuck a thousand journalists, but he's easily worth the rights to a big sporting event or three or four big budget productions or something.

It occurs to me I have no real appreciation of the craft of presenting at all, on TV or radio, unless the presenter is doing news or sport or an election or something else where their job is to be as unobtrusive as possible.

parkinson was shit too!!

tyra's chat show is great, i watched her interviewing T.I. on youtube and it was excellent. like her first three qns were all variations of "i want to bone you right now" and then suddenly BOOM in with the jail/felony questions

i wish there was such a thing as a british tyra :(

Why is Tyra doing the "I want to bone you" routine good, but Ross doing it isn't?

first three qns were all variations of "i want to bone you right now"

Well, Jross did this, and Gwynneth hasn't had a jail felony...

xpost obv.

What's with the 1000 journalists nonsense? Do they only get 6 grand a year at the BBC?

"Fuck a thousand journalists" is not a cogent argument.

Why is Tyra doing the "I want to bone you" routine good, but Ross doing it isn't?

I was gonna say 'lady if you have to ask' but on a more serious note that's a pretty good way of lulling someone into a false sense of security. I mean, assuming TI wants to bone Tyra more than Janet Jackson wants to fuck Jonathan Ross, which I think is a fair assumption.

Sexually explicit Friday night TV for student/out the pub audiences, News at Ten.

Parkinson was great. He knew how to guide the guest into talking about the right things, and importantly he knew when to shut up. Yes he was a crotchety old bastard when faced with e.g. Meg Ryan but when put against Jonathan Ross he rates very highly indeed.

(Yeah I know, I was being facetious, I am aware that BBC journalism is better than journalism in most of the rest of the world.)

I think he emeans "JRoss is not worth a thousand jn's, but he is worth a cupfinal"

xpost but the comparison is: I mean, assuming TI wants to bone Tyra more than Jonathan Rosswants to fuck Janet Jackson , which I think is dunno...

Fact is, his chat show is easily the best thing on tv on Friday night, and, whatever you think about him (his tendency to talk too much, whether he's actually funny, the hateable way he tries to come off like he's 'edgy' one moment and safe for ma and pa the next), it's a reliably funny show. (I don't listen to him on the radio, fwiw.)

Why is Tyra doing the "I want to bone you" routine good, but Ross doing it isn't?

cuz tyra does it w/poise and humour (and not actually in terms as vulgar as "i want to bone you"), whereas ross kind of lurches across his desk like a drunk office creep and makes you long for a shower to ~cleanse~ yourself of his gaze.

and what matt said

omg that parkinson/meg ryan interview was an embarrassment - she wanted to have a serious discussion about a serious film that she'd clearly thought deeply about, and parkinson either dismissed or ignored or deliberately misunderstood everything she said. a clear case of "how dare you have serious thoughts about art on my light entertainment bullshit programme, i'm going to try to cut you down to size". thankfully meg was having none of it

They are different types of show though (Parky v Ross) - Parky is about the guests, FNWJR is about Ross as much (more?) than its about the guests. There's a reason Parky was prime-time Saturday night and JR is post-pub Friday telly. I agree he is a bit rapey with some of his female guests, but some guests give back as good as they get (Thandie Newton, Minnie Driver, for example), others should maybe think about sacking their agents for booking them onto a show that requires a modicum of humour to get through. As creepy as he is to female guests, I still cringe at his interview with Tobey Maguire who blatantly Didn't Get It while Kirsten Dunst sat next to him being smart, finding it hilarious, and was all but ignored.

some xposts there

One of my favourite Profanisaurus entries is still "wilty", as in "the state of awkwardness when someone is talking to someone they had a wank over a photo of earlier in the day, as best evidence when Jonathan Ross interviewed Dita von Teese"

It's spelled 'rilty'.

omg that parkinson/meg ryan interview was an embarrassment - she wanted to have a serious discussion about a serious film that she'd clearly thought deeply about, and parkinson either dismissed or ignored or deliberately misunderstood everything she said. a clear case of "how dare you have serious thoughts about art on my light entertainment bullshit programme, i'm going to try to cut you down to size". thankfully meg was having none of it

― lex pretend, Friday, 31 October 2008 21:14 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yep, and Parky spent the next 2348272389742987432 years of his career banging on about how ghoulish she was. But he's still better than Jonathan Ross.

xpost to ailsa
Ross's DOM routine usually works when the guests can usually give as good as they get, it doesn't work when they're not in on the joke.

I didn't see the Janet Jackson interview but I must have watched a different one with Serena Williams as she seemed to be really enjoying it and played along with his persona, plus if she was so uncomfortable with it she wouldn't have went back on his show another two times.

ew it's the worst when he interviews american celebs who thought they were signed up for a 'cup of tea' chat show.

Nah, those can be great.

the "can you say that on TV?" face...

Has he ever done Mariah Carey?

Ring her grandad!

I thangyeew...

Or Paris, for that matter?

Mariah Carey was on Paul O'Grady, so she must have done Ross?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_guests_on_Friday_Night_with_Jonathan_Ross

Nope, neither.

The point here being that the point of the programme rests on "you think these people are overpaid pampered egotistical twats, that's great, WE think these people are overpaid pampered egotistical twats too".

This doesn't work so well now it's become apparent that a sizeable chunk of the population also thinks JRoss is an overpaid pampered egostical twat, so much of the programme's appeal is lost.

I mean the point of that style of interviewing, really.

i think we need a poll on the most gruesome chat show moment ever.

The Lex is correct again. Ross is scum.

Gotta be.

xp

Vaguely challopy opinion approacheth:

Graham Norton is probably best at the presenter-centric style of talk show (though this may well be because he does tend to have a better hit-rate on booking guests who actually know what to expect and play along)

Parky was terrible in his declining years.

Basically he was reduced to brown-tonguing whatever C listers he could dredge up for the millionth time.

And his R2 show was a disgrace; all he ever did was moan about why wasn't R2 like it used to be, why didn't it play Sinatra/Mel Torme/Ella anymore, and I'm surprised he was allowed to get away with it for so long.

I agree on Ailsa re. Norton but moving from C4 was a grievous mistake.

Youtube appears to be missing Matthew Kelly on The Frank Skinner Show.

agree WITH Ailsa I meant

This doesn't work so well now it's become apparent that a sizeable chunk of the population also thinks JRoss is an overpaid pampered egostical twat, so much of the programme's appeal is lost.

But who MADE them think that?

Not Jonathan Ross.

It was the Mail on Sunday.

wrong, Ross has always made me believe Ross is an overpaid pampered twat

Youtube appears to be missing Matthew Kelly on The Frank Skinner Show.

― William Bloody Swygart, Friday, 31 October 2008 10:43 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Was this when he made a load of "lol paedo" gags?

This was after he had made a load of lol paedo gags. Which Kelly proceeded to remind him of.

Think you're confusing him with Frankie Boyle there.

xpost

It's funny how Carlin seems to love and admire Ross!

It's silly really that we are talking about these cruddy inferior R2 tossers and not the greats, like, yes, DESMOND CARRINGTON and his cat Sam.

The best I can remember is when Alan Hansen went on Frank Skinner and obviously decided to take no shit, turned up, called him a twat, and then spent the interview making Skinner squirm and going "go ahead, say something funny, that's your job, why aren't you being funny?" and ending by intimating that he was a filthy letch. Skinner totally couldn't cope with it.

i think we need a poll on the most gruesome chat show moment ever.

the internet is not providing me with this, but years ago tori amos was on the jon stewart show - he was pursuing the "you and your fans are crazy" line rather heavily and she was giving pissed-off one-word answers, then suddenly she reaches across the desk and pours his glass of water into his lap, then sort of sits there giggling until the interview ends.

I don't love or admire Ross.

But I despise those who would seek to destroy him and the organisation which employs him because of an ever potent mixture of vested interests and envy.

I agree about Desmond Carrington, on whom there already exists a thread on ILx.

Frank Skinner was due to have been a guest on FNWJR tonight. That would have been fun.

Like the sound of that Tori Amos one: very considered, into his lap....

Not quite Grace slapping Harty, is it? Now them was the REAL giants...

i think i saw that Hansen one, ouch

Yes, the Hansen was good! Skinner is bad and shouldn't be on TV.

I started the Carrington thread myself, years and years ago!!

HEY I have just remembered the one chat-show clip that combines Ross, water-pouring and the gwreatest wrock writer ever!

want to see hansen/skinner. want want want.

Man, check out that waistcoat on Morley. Fashion p-l-a-t-e.

Rossie did alright in that situation. Morley can't grumble about having water thrown over him after nicking the guys hat and throwing it across the studio.

also protesting about what? dancing after 3am? what is this Footloose?

Blimey, I remember that; an obvious attempt to do a Pistols on Grundy except that Mr Colston-Hayter clearly wasn't John Lydon and Ross managed the situation rather better than Grundy did.

oh my i forgot about the pistols, a sure winner.

Grundy's career certainly never recovered from that!

Was the Morley incident about 1990?

I agree, having thrown the hat across the room, Morley couldn't be so surprised by the water! It is quite funny how he calls him 'the one with the double-bawrwelled-name' - either he can't remember it or, even having been reminded, just acts like he can't.

it was 1989 according to that vid title

I wonder what happened to Colston-Hayter, wasn't his partner in crime the guy who went on to found right-wing blog Guido Fawkes?

Do you mean him? You surely do!

That's the fellow. I'd guess that TCH is running a hedge fund in the city or some such useful employment.

"uptight Conservatives are probably the people who would benefit most from taking drugs, particularly Thatcherites, with their machine-like obsession with efficiency and abstract attachment to the freedom to make money. I'm as much of a believer in Capitalism as the most earnest of Young Conservatives, but couldn't we put acid in the punch at the YC ball and then really have a party?"

!! this, from a tory...

its bizarre how tame that bee gees interview seems now. talking about the odessa era, etc, clive seems almost reverent...

i think we need a poll on the most gruesome chat show moment ever.

― Ant Attack.. (Ste), Friday, 31 October 2008 21:37 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Emu attacking Parky has to be up there.

wasn't that Des O'conner?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqrg_VCPgAQ

btw someone wants to make an animated gif of Clive's face collapsing.

wonder if Ross's old boss, Chris Evans, is secretly waiting for the call ..

HA, i maybe thinking of Grace Jones instead

btw someone wants to make an animated gif of Clive's face collapsing.

OMG it was classic wasn't it

I can't help feeling that the whole walking off thing was planned in advance.

i think we need a poll on the most gruesome chat show moment ever.

― Ant Attack.. (Ste), Friday, 31 October 2008 21:37 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

At the very least, there definitely needs to be a thread on gruesome chat show moments with youtube accompaniment. Is there one?

or was it Russell Harty?

xp definitely should be, just trolling through the tube now and I'm remembering shit loads.

I did that earlier. David Icke on Wogan is worth another look.

Wogan (to shell suited Icke): "I don't think they (the audience) are laughing with you, I think they're laughing at you"

Or Wogan interviewing George "I don't like bullshitters" Best

Most gruesome chat show moment ever

Let us celebrate the fact that a Friday night has passed without Friday Night With JR.

Poor wee Miley Cyrus :-(

http://images.newstatesman.com/articles/2008/1040/20081030_ross_w.jpg

MISS YOU BOW WOW

Jonathan Ross to leave BBC, apparently.

what a disaster for unfunny tv presenters

Good morning. My day is turning out to be far more interesting then I had anticipated ! See you later - have a good one.
about 1 hour ago from TweetDeck

A new presenter for Film 2010 then, thank god.

He can't talk over people on Twitter.

A new presenter for Film 2010 then, thank god.

lol Alex Zane

so all that stuff about doing the job for love and not minding taking a paycut was... a lie? i'm astonished.

I don't dislike M. Kermode as a human being but whoever's speculating he'll get the Film 2010 gig is nuts.

Marcus Bentley's going to need a gig xxp

anton beke

Chiles.

A new presenter for Film 2010 then, thank god.

lol Alex Zane

― James Mitchell, Thursday, 7 January 2010 10:40 (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if this is true i would genuinely go on a murder spree in broadcasting house

I don't dislike M. Kermode as a human being but whoever's speculating he'll get the Film 2010 gig is nuts.

― Shart Habit to Break (Noodle Vague), Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:42 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark

the bbc seem to like him A LOT tho. is it so nuts? it could be worse: it could be johnny vaughn. it could be bad dad off the adam and joe show for all i care tbqf.

that history dude with the arms

David Tennant, just to piss off the Daily Mail.

Who is going to pay Ross even the kind of money he was getting after the paycut?

I think Sky probably pay people something totally disproportionate to the viewers they attract to do new Sky 1 shows.

Okay Kermode possible and I couldn't give one either but I do hear him on the radio on the reg and I just feel his reviewing criteria (i.e. "Is this Goth?") are lacking a bit.

Who is going to pay Ross even the kind of money he was getting after the paycut?

During the furore over his salary, JR claimed rival networks had offered him more than the BBC were paying him, but decided to stay with the Beeb. Whether he has finally been tempted by one of those offers, time will tell.

Kermode is a shoo-in for the Film 2010 etc gig. Though JR's contract doesn't expire till July.

i'm worried this paves the way for James Corden

Need to be big fucking paving slabs etc etc

JR claimed rival networks had offered him more than the BBC were paying him

Well, he would say that, etc. Sky implying that he's off to America where he can earn serious money instead of this piddling £6m a year.

judging by most US guests' reaction to him, can't see that happening.

During the furore over his salary, JR claimed rival networks had offered him more than the BBC were paying him, but decided to stay with the Beeb. Whether he has finally been tempted by one of those offers, time will tell.

Kermode is a shoo-in for the Film 2010 etc gig. Though JR's contract doesn't expire till July.

― DavidM, Thursday, January 7, 2010 1:13 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

weirdly the world at one newsreader stated as fact that he could make more elsewhere. didn't even say "had been offered" more.

BBC should be grooming the new (and hopefully better) Ross now, not just waiting for Channel 4 to find these people for them

isn't the C4 phase an important part of developing these wonderful zany presenters

C4 now has terry wogan and noel edmonds so... i dunno where that leaves us.

ans: with some shitty programmes

Is Wogan on C4 now? It's handy to have all the real wankers in one place.

he's replacing richard and judy

the bbc will snap them up in 2014

iirc? he's on trailers at the moment n e way

xp

(xxxxpost) Graham Norton! oh...

Apparently Norton is going to be his replacement. And then there's this:

"Stand-up comedian Michael McIntyre could also benefit from Ross' departure, with the BBC thought to be grooming the Live at the Apollo host into one of its leading performers."

STOP GETTING TALENT WRONG, BBC

why is michael mcintyre?

Who do people find him funny?

People find MM funny? He's like the ultimate public school Oxford/Cambridge tosser who thinks he's hilariously funny.

I'm pretty sure he's the biggest comedian in Britain at the moment, so at a guess i would say some people find him funny.

He doesn't strike me as particularly Oxbridge either, but it's been obvious for ages he was going to be given a prime time Saturday evening slot before too long.

I will be fair to MM; I saw him twice in Edinburgh (as an emcee) and he is very, very good at the nuts and bolts of doing standup. He played the 1000+ room I was in expertly. The actual substance of what he says is puerile. But there's a kind of form and rhythm to standup that, if you have it, it almost doesn't matter what you say.

Whilst I concur with the substance of what you say, I wd still like to stick McIntyre in the eye with a chip-fork.

yeah, i saw him mc a show that chris addison healdined a couple of years back, and while his personality is irredeemably smug and smarmy, he had my gf and i laughing despite ourselves. i find him entirely unlikeable, and will rue his reign as the nu-jimmy carr (but could he be worse than jimmy carr?), but he is, i guess, Good At What He Does.

Let's list people who are good at what they do where the world would be a better place if they weren't good at what they do.

Maybe after all the years of Russell Brand et al there is something comforting about a standup who is so unrepentantly square.

tracer, again, http://images.contactmusic.com/dn/jimmy+carr_855_18439521_0_0_5880_300.jpg

Square I can live with but what I've seen of his act he's a smug reactionary little Tory prick too.

Pretty much.

stevie I once narrowly averted one of the worst mistakes in my life when I realized at the last second that I was about to buy tickets for JIMMY Carr instead of Alan Carr as I'd planned on doing.

frying pan, fire imo

Alan Carr is amazing!! He should replace Ross and Norton IMO.

never heard him do standup tbf but his chatshow/radio person grates

i lol'd when jimmy carr said "tell us wha'gwan, or i'll murk you" on quiz of the year

but admittedly i would lol at most white british comedians saying that in their regular voice

on r5 just now some ginormous cunt called charles moore was rabbitting on about not paying the license fee and giving money to help the aged because of andrew sachs rip in the most tory voice i've ever heard. if he doesn't look like stephen glover i'll wring a peasant's neck

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2007/11/16/moore460.jpg

Former Telegraph editor and fascist cunt Charles Moore I assume.

that's the one! his very voice cried fucknozzle

Could the average pupil of today do long division, or speak French, or write an English paragraph, or explain the Great Reform Bill, or find Valparaiso on a map, or operate the laws of thermo-dynamics better than his or her equivalent half a century ago?

Surprised you've not heard of him before, he's an old school enemy of all that's good and humane.

We heard this week that a quarter of primary schools never teach pupils the Lord’s Prayer, partly (presumably) because the words of a Jew who has been dead for 2,000 years are considered out of date.

You can see this in the practical things of daily life. Huge numbers of drugs, it turns out, are wrongly administered in hospital because nurses have not followed the instructions precisely. No one taught them the habit of accuracy.

from wiki:

A former editor of The Spectator (1984-90), the Sunday Telegraph (1992-5) and The Daily Telegraph (1995-2003); he resigned from the last post to spend more time writing Margaret Thatcher's authorised biography, which will be published after her death.

cannot wait to read this book^^^^^^^

Reading the comments to this article I am stunned anew as to the right-wing cunts this country nourishes, and their perennial argument that the current Labour regime = left-wing fascist conspiracy against Britain. STFU AND DIE

seems pretty likely that american audience will reject jonathan ross, due to he is not really all that funny

but i said the same thing about russell brand and then next thing you know he was in a real movie

Then he called Dubya a "retarded cowboy", insulted some Christian boy band on an MTV awards show and had to apologise immediately afterwards, and then he came back to the UK.
Similarly Noel Edmonds' attempt to crack America failed.

Think that was Noel Edmonds' attempt to do crack in America

Edmonds even went to the effort of learning which US city was the equivalent - for humorous purposes - of Wigan. I can't see Wossy taking that much trouble.

Most children today belong in prison but since that would be rather inconvenient, I suggest they be drafted into the army until they are at least 21 years of age. If they haven't learned anything worthwhile by then, we should send them to prison.

retarded cowboys and Christian boy bands are a tough crowd tbf

On the plus side, Ross does talk like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.

You mean, in the most unconvincing cockney accent ever?

Ross is crap.

i lol'd when jimmy carr said "tell us wha'gwan, or i'll murk you" on quiz of the year

i can't see any way this wouldn't be an utterly horrible nadir of broadcasting tbh

a good way to improve tv would be to BANISH ALL "COMEDIANS" COMPLETELY FROM IT

i really want to see jonathan ross publicly humiliated and living in the gutter before he dies

But there's a kind of form and rhythm to standup that, if you have it, it almost doesn't matter what you say.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, January 7, 2010 6:06 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

think this is a lee/herring line: "it has the rhythm of a joke, but...". im sure it will be awful michael mcintyre who wins but a-doi it's mnstrm light entertainment, it's supposed to be shit.

there are MUCH worse tories than charles moore, imo -- he isn't a fascist at any rate. but of course he is wrong about the license fee, and it's quite right that we should pay millions of pounds to highly talented and beloved entertainers like jonathan ross, bruce forsyth, and chris moyles.

it's the principle. he's just such a self-entitled, self-righteous reactionary berk. yeah there are massive problems with the system, but this is not the way to go about solving them.

what's the principle?

his principle that because a man was insulted he will suddenly decide to no longer fund the bbc and by extension ross. and make a big fuss about it because he has the media platform from which to do so. it's self-serving and will accomplish little except rally the pinheads

i think he has a longer and deeper animus against the bbc for its liberal bias and so forth, and ross's obscene salary in combination with sachsgate was his opportunity. as an ex-editor of a national newspaper he has a platform to make it an issue -- yes, that tends to be how the world works; ross too has his media platform. but iirc it's precisely because it would become a fuss that he hasn't been prosecuted? idk, i don't really have a dog in this fight.

i'm probably displaying a massive liberal bias here myself, but i don't think either side is particularly liberal or sympathetic. maybe it is true that the SALARY is the greatest evil here, but moore's position appeals to a reactionary sense of propriety rather than a social justice. he's using fred goodwin comparisons in order to attack, yes, this 'liberal' bias which allows swearing and prurience and gays and ethnic minorities to embugger the airwaves. bring back queen victoria and the boxed ear! in latin, now, please

i think it'd be pretty hard to deny that the bbc does have a liberal bias (really a new labour bias) after 12-13 years of new labour -- it was "worse" a few years ago because obviously now it has to get ready for the big change. as it did in the mid-90s. that seems to be pretty much the way things go, and it isn't limited to the bbc, but the whole of the establishment -- universities, newspapers, whatever.

im not sure what "social justice" is involved in this argument. or how moore's sense of propriety (deeming phoning people up and saying you've fucked their granddaughter uncouth) is, in this instance, reactionary. the whole fuss over "sachsgate" was a ridiculous episode, symptomatic of the banking crisis and people's failure to deal with matters of importance. at the same time, ross is awful.

Would love it if Charles Moore got busted by a license van/man.

^^ this is the whole thing though -- iirc he *wants* to get busted to make a big hullaballoo about it, and the bbc doesn't want that. such is my impression n e way.

well yeah. the main thing i was thinking while listening to moore was 'this guy does not have his priorities straight'. i agree with you strongly about ross and about sachsgate. the scale of moore's response betrays a reactionary mindset, though! plus his intimation that now ross is going he has a 'mechanism' for paying without paying. so unctuous.

is a new labour bias really a liberal bias? maybe superficially. paying vast sums to presenters is maybe 'liberal' in the old definition. these days they come off as libertarian and priggish for the most part. still, the bbc does some excellent work and harbours a significant left-wing community, corrupted by money or not.

not looking forward to the next few years. well, in a way i am, actually. a cry will rise.

and yeah, as i say, moore's looking for martyrdom. they should bite imo

Newspaper have a liberal bias? xp

"intelligent people have a liberal bias"

i can't see any way this wouldn't be an utterly horrible nadir of broadcasting tbh

you could if you wanted to

still, the bbc does some excellent work and harbours a significant left-wing community, corrupted by money or not.

yeah, this is moore's problem with it! he is a conservative. i have no idea where you're coming from with that "corrupted by money" bit, or how you can be both libertarian and priggish but, uh, anyway. the bbc does good things, it does bad things, but the news -- at least on bbc1 -- is basically government news, as it was under the tories.

Newspaper have a liberal bias? xp

― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, January 7, 2010 9:29 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

well, a new labour bias, yes: the murdoch press backed new labour. and so did (often) gordon brown's friend paul dacre at the mail. now, on the other hand, even the guardian is pretty soft on tories.

It's sad that the Guardian are soft on Tories.

Yeah, I see that HM but OTOH if they're just doing his neighbourhood, he's just another entitled jackass trying to flout stuff. And if the TV License person is like the guy who did my block, the optics of going snide on a low-waged furriner may flummox whatever mileage he'd want to get out of Taking A Stand.

But liberal and New Labour are not the same thing. The Sun and the Times were never liberal papers and slagged off NuLab whenever it strayed into liberal territory, as did the Mail (and I'm struggling to recall the Mail showing much support for Brown or Blair tbh). The Daily Mail has pretty much been the same pile of reactionary shit since before ww2.

I've just spent the last half hour reading articles by Moore and would like to retract my accusation of fascism. My previous impression of him was misplaced. His take-downs of Andrew Marr's history shows are mostly OTM.

He's still a pompous dick, like.

certainly is that. i think they used to call him lord snooty in private eye? before david cameron took that on. he's a bit like the pinefox imo.

But liberal and New Labour are not the same thing. The Sun and the Times were never liberal papers and slagged off NuLab whenever it strayed into liberal territory, as did the Mail (and I'm struggling to recall the Mail showing much support for Brown or Blair tbh). The Daily Mail has pretty much been the same pile of reactionary shit since before ww2.

― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, January 7, 2010 9:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

ok, ok. i misspoke a bit -- the bbc does have a liberal bias, but with newspapers it's different. the point in the post was just that the establishment adapts to how the wind is blowing. that's how it stays the establishment.

obviously no-one would claim the mail was a cheerleader for new labour every step of the way. but the story is a lot more complicated than most of its (basically labour-supporting) haters would like to think. dacre respects brown's presbyterian probity.

it's not just the things i named either -- here is an article about arts quangos:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/19/quangos-in-tory-quandary

i wouldn't say that the bbc was *strongly* new labour or anything, it's subtler and more insidious than that. but it was -- as i recall -- pretty fkn tory twenty years ago. even on a stylistic level, the 9 o'clock news theme and set design was right-wing. 'the day today' nailed it.

it's not like these are big ideological battles in the grand scheme of things. but nick robinson is more conservative-leaning than the (very new labour) andrew marr, and that's not a total accident imo. it's a semi-state broadcaster, so some influence would hardly be a total shock. i think charles moore's campaign is foolish because there are things about the bbc that i can't see being done anywhere else, for all its faults.

The BBC isn't going to be so pro-Tory when they start to systematically dismantle it later this year.

Charles Moore is pretty much the archetypal old-school fuddy-duddy type Tory of the Telegraph's old Retired Colonel's Daily phase that they're trying to downplay in the new Full Colour Splash Banner With Jay-Z On era.

im drawing my examples from two long governments, this one and the last. and cameron's might not be so long. but in the end i think the bbc will eat the cuts. the higher-ups, people like mark thompson, don't have any firm principles. the whole news agenda, the bbc's included, is "come clean, there are going to be cuts." so it won't be a massive leap. and cameron is not going to systematically dismantle it (not immediately) because it is basically popular. likely to fuck with the minority-interest stuff -- they one of the digital channels will go iirc.

intelligent people have a liberal bias

seriously?

No results found for "intelligent people have a liberal bias".

Results 1 - 10 of about 320,000 for reality has a liberal bias. (0.20 seconds)

haha

not a reactionary git, just an idiot

:D

The BBC isn't going to be so pro-Tory when they start to systematically dismantle it later this year.

You'd be amazed how much finding out your bit *isn't* being dismantled can sway your opinion. The people being chopped won't have a big platform from which to make noises and the people staying in work will stfu and keep cashing the cheques.

):

the bbc is actually pretty big...amazingly many people working there are just trying to cover stories neutrally because they work day to day, on a story, on a programme, not for the views of the entire corporation.

there are so many women there!

and what if...that increased diversity had contributed to the perceived liberal bias. chicken/egg scenario tho.

women can be conservative too. there was that one woman, forget her name -- quite shrill.

mrs bucket

BBC diversity levels etc. just a good snapshot of changing 'middle class' demographic, nothing more or less. Some of those people read the Guardian, others the Mail. Still others have to read all of the papers because it's, like, part of their job to.

people love the mail in my office, not cos they're right wing, but cos it's a good source for tv stories...

surely the middle class demographic hasn't really changed, it's just literally a bit less white and male (and old?)?

but cos it's a good source for tv stories...

yeah that's my Mum's excuse. she's just gone back to the Beeb as it happens.

BBC diversity levels etc. just a good snapshot of changing 'middle class' demographic, nothing more or less.

possibly *london* middle-class demographic.

but it's more specific even than middle-class, isn't it?

RTE- bible class

bibble class

middle cross

im not a member of the metropolitan media elite so don't know what youse are on about.

Apart from some of the music people, for whom there is working -> middle class mobility, I feel like whoever's going to work there (regardless of race/ethnicity) is probably from some permutation of the middle class, but within that, white lower middle class types are not acceptable to the higher-status white people doing the hiring. This is how chips become balanced on the shoulders of certain gringos.

Come June they'll just put Top Gear on 24 hours a day - bias corrected!

Claudia Winkleman named as presenter of new-look Film 2010

eh i kinda hate her.

I actually don't mind her.

well i did only say 'kinda'

http://listicles.thelmagazine.com/wp-content/upload/ironhide_facepalm.jpg

although i guess anyone who isn't kermode is alright with me?

I don't mind her either but isn't this is a bit too much of "a proper job" for her?

yes FILM 2010 is an important and vital programme since the internet stopped working.

She's married to the producer of Kick Ass, btw.

a hoy hoy posted her in WS iirc? she already looks smashed enough tbh

eh, thats before i wiki'd her and noticed that she is actually pretty fucking evil

jesus that's worse. smash/don't smash but never consider personality imo

She's beige enough to do this job perfectly adequately imo

she really brought something to fame academy after hours iirc.

The beeb should have got Jenny Powell in.

Should've got Alex Cox in, now that would be worth watching.

Yeah, I remember his "cult film" series. Including "Repo Man", the bashful

She's married to the producer of Kick Ass, btw.

really? isn't jonathan ross's wife the screenwriter of Kick Ass?

jane goldman? damn, i was gonna see that.

I for one welcome our new Kick-Ass overlords of film reviewing.

Matthew Vaughan is the main producer, and he's married to Claudia Schiffer.

CW's husband started out as a PR at Freud.

is this him?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/Rubixcubeofyou/GreenPowerRanger.jpg

looks suspiciously like the Kick Ass guy...

more importantly, when are they going to drop the 20? fucking dumb-downers

Claudia W's husband is mates with Matthew Vaughn, and they make films together. And I read too many shitty magazines.

The thing with CW is that a few times I've seen her on other people's shows and she seems OK, like she might be kind of fun and witty, but on her own shows she is so desperate to give off this gushing persona of being brazenly in love with celeb culture beyond all things while also playing it in a way like she's trying to make you question whether it's all ironic and really she's a bro acting like a GURL for laughs but just ends up in a big wacky Davina-esque annoying whirl.

Didn't mind Wossy too much on Film actually.

Well, so does Wossy on other TV shows, but in the big armchair he visibly relaxes and the TV 'persona' isn't evident.

So, it could happen the same for CW.

http://i.imgur.com/0C02U.jpg

morrissey's not looking well these days