"Milk" does the body good: The Winter ILX Gay Thread

Symmetry required the Lord to start this.

...you really do mean you when you say the Lord, don't you ; )

As if there weren't enough reasons to worship The Soto. I bow to you, milord!

plz let's those of us who are here while Chris is meet up w/ him.

I hate winter. But I love the gays.

So does everyone remember the bullshit drama of my mom FORBIDDING me tell my friends at [our] work that I'm gay because she was "afraid people would say bad things about me" and because it was sort of embarassing for her to have her co-workers know? I got so disgusted with her attitude towards the whole thing (while, you know, claiming she totally was accepting and not homophobic at all the entire time) that I just told people at my work anyway. So about 10 people know--both that I'm gay, and why I didn't tell them months earlier--but it's all people my age and none of the middle-aged people that my mom is buddy-buddy with. She still doesn't know, and quite frankly I could give two shits if she does or not.

She can be so horrible at being a mom sometimes, though. I was venting once about how frustrating it was that my co-workers freely used "gay" and "faggot" to describe things they didn't like, and she just says "Well, I'm sorry to tell you, Steve, but that's life. There's nothing you can do about it." Not anything, you know, comforting (or even on my side).

Kevin J. Bozelka just called me "Sugar Bear Booger Britches". LOL!!!

Also an ilxor sent me a photo of another ilxor dude who um...is really GOTH AND HOTTTT. Or at least he was in the 20 year old pic on his last.fm page!

let's see what else...oh yeah KJB sent me this compilation of Queer music put together by Jon Savage called "From The Closet To The Charts: Queer Noises 1961 - 1978". It's fucking hilarious, especially the 60's stuff.

I have to get a new DVD player today because mine is broken and I can't even play the pr0n I rented, so it's an emergency! ;)

Also I have the first four Sheena Easton albums now. DO NOT LAUGH. They're going for fucking US$100-$125 dollars on CD, EACH. Even if you hate her, that's just fucking ridiculous.

I'd like to hear A Private Heaven.

Really feeling KJB lately.

Stevie, I'm glad you got to tell some people!

"Nothing you can do" is a pretty depressing response.

Teen heartthrob Jesse Suave.

SO the other day there was this CUUUETTT boy applying for a job at my work, and I was all "Please please hire him!" in my mind AND THEY DID AND HE IS SO CUET

Also an ilxor sent me a photo of another ilxor dude who um...is really GOTH AND HOTTTT. Or at least he was in the 20 year old pic on his last.fm page!

lol, is this crutis?

I now have like hxc crushes on three of my co-workers.

None of whom know that I am gay.

whatta lame thread title. and it's "milk does a body good." all future gay threads should be titled by surmounter.

sorry that is bitchy but seriously

oh go fuck a girl or something.

It's actually "Milk: It does a body good". Or, was, originally, maybe it has changed since.

Also an ilxor sent me a photo of another ilxor dude who um...is really GOTH AND HOTTTT. Or at least he was in the 20 year old pic on his last.fm page!

lol, is this crutis?

Haha no. Check this out:
http://www.last.fm/user/ilx_onimo

loooooooool

...

these threads suck, y'all are boring

uhhh try you're angry and not nice and not in the holiday spirit

sucka

i'd also like to point out Matt P that the last thread title was conceived by table.

and milk can do the body good if you want it too.

thanks.

Wow lots of snatchiness around here last night.

I came here to post this
Pat Boone compares anti-Prop 8 activists to Mumbai terrorists http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/09/prop_8_protestors_mumbai_ter

and as long as we're on the subject of being a cunt -- i've been a bat out of hell this weekend. ryan's had to suffer through it a little but that's allowed cuz that's like, his job.

but i really need someone to explain to me how it's possible to gain 5 pounds from 1 peanut butter binge. really, i would love to know.

Peanut butter contains salt, so maybe you're just retaining some water.

I too went on a PB binge this weekend!

! ok salt, point taken. i threw the scale at the wall this morning...

I would have no problem with weight gain.

Yeah, me either.

Brainwasher OTM.

We're boring?

These threads have declined significantly over time.

It's really all about summer. These threads should probably hibernate in the winter.

Also we ran out of fag related issues to run through.

geez ppl. it's not always chatterchatterchatter in this life. but sometimes, when ya need a thread, one exists. now stop being negative and pour yourself some eggnog or something.

The threads have changed in nature, from being about the gays who have, like no friends in this town, to being about showcases for all things conventionally gay.

<3 ramzi

Which would we rather talk about -- the brief bio of Martin Van Buren I just finished or last night's dancing?

I didn't know you were writing a bio of Martin Van Buren.

Brief bio! Brief bio!

Also, boredom comes from WITHIN so BRING IT, bitchers!

Also, stfu!

Also, <3 Ramzi 2

Also, thanx for big upping me, ikr. xoxoxo

OK which of the gays would like me to upload somewhere this comp, my all-time fave gay album:

Queer to the Core CD. A probably bootleg reissue of some old queer novelty tunes. The Teddy and Darrel These Are the Hits You Silly Savage LP is reissued in its entirety. According to Rhino Records, one of the people on this record was future California Lt. Governor Mike Curb. It's kind of like the Frogs, in that it's probably a joke record where the people doing it aren't gay, though who knows. Three singles on Camp Records are included (including the classic "I'd Rather Swish than Fight," which I always wished Sta-Prest would do a cover of.) Camp Records also released the LP "The Queen is in the Closet," but it's not on here. (The Camp Records tracks are apparently circa 1965, as they're advertised in a Vagabond catalog from that year.) And there's an excerpt of the Pearl Box Revue double LP, which is a tape of a group of drag queens including Dorian Corey of Paris is Burning fame talking circa 1970. If the people who put out this rerelease are reading this (or people who know about the original releases, even better) please get in touch with me. (Quick Nuts) (reviewed 3/98)

If so, I'll do it sometime next week.

I thought the whole point of ILX was integrating the bio of Martin van Buren with last night's dancing?

KJB, this is a comp of 60s queer novelty records? If so, that sounds interesting.

i would be VERY interested in that KJB, thx!

Most of them are 1960 queer novelty records. But the real gem is that Pearl Box Revue record which is called Call Me MISSter which is a round table discussion about drag/gay life/politics. There's a probably drunk quasi-homophobe that the queens just lay into it. It's riotous!

just lay into PERIOD.

I thought the whole point of ILX was integrating the bio of Martin van Buren with last night's dancing?

I'll vote for this.

Still want KJB to do his bootleg THANG, tho!

(I like boots, I like legs...)

Che Guevara and Debussy to a disco beat?

I sorta want to look a gift horse in the mouth and ask if anyone has John Waters' christmas mix CD.

Is this something he does regularly?

I do not have it. But I want to know more.

i am now on the guest-list at all of Bus Station John's events-- excellent! and free drinks.

that said, guys, i was turned down for drinks FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE the other night, by a cute bartender who gave me water and then insisted on talking to me for a while. it was actually really nice and the right thing to do.

that said, i now am imposing a drink limit on myself.

also fuck teh haters, what's the problem? GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.

i have a 5 am flight tomorrow. ugh.

that sounds like a sweetie of a bartender!

what's the problem?

There's no real problem; it's a chat thread, and it's never going to be super interesting. But at least the Chicago thread doesn't limit itself to, I dunno, "local sports teams", "meaty foods", and "inclement weather" the way that the gay threads have lately been all about "fierce divas", "hubba hubba manflesh", and "how'm I gonna fit all these drugs into my wee nostril?"

I'm not sure anything can be done about this though. I'm not saying "kill the gay threads". But yeah, they are mostly really really boring lately.

cas, i don't really know what to say about that... do you want people to have insane problems or do you want to talk queer theory? i can do both, but this shit ain't Oprah.

that said, i don't understand what is wrong with me. i think i either don't dress well or am totally ugly, or these boys out here are just full of themselves.

xpost Ouch.

Anyhoo, Eric, I have this John Waters Xmas CD. If that's the one you're looking for, I can up it next week too.

That would be sweet, thx.

Do they talk about queer theory on Oprah now?

whenever John Waters is on.

in my own defense, grad school has been sucking the life out of me so i've been pretty boring both online and in real life (not that i was a real firecracker to begin with here, but...)

also possibly the film detriTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTus thread has diverted attention from here somewhat (except for me because a) i don't care and b) well i kinda care but i have nothing to contribute)

I wish I could adequately explain how hot this dude is in this porno. There's about ten guys fucking this girl, but this one dude...he's got a blue collar work shirt on, you know, sorta like a mechanic and the shape and size of his...

I am posting inanities because I can't think enough to continue working on my paper, which I am growing to loath, and fuck it and fuck my useless brain and fuck this world of endless imperfection.

I didn't go to a bar at all this weekend for the first time in what must be ages. No sex or dancing either, so I've completely stopped being gay for the time being.

KJB, do you like Tom Wilson records?

(oh also, I went to sleep at midnight on Saturday and by 11 the other nights)

tabes you know you're adorable, it's just a spell. i hate those!

i don't think there's anything wrong with talking about "gay" things, and no one's stopping anyone from talking about anything else. also dwelling on it doesn't help. so just talk about things you wanna talk about, or stop calling everyone boring. :)

i understand it's a stressful time of year, but dealing with your frustration by getting down on everyone is never constructive, in my opinion.

I don't think anybody's going getting down on anyone ... maybe after the Christmas party!

tabes, we New Yorkers look fwd to testing yr drink limit.

I wd like to share this image of French film actor Xavier Lafitte:

http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/mo/uno/20070831/13/588131618.jpg

kissable!

i would love to be kissed tonight.

(i mean i guess that's kind of a given)

(is it so terrible, to want to be kissed?)

Hi! New mom update: she found a new and bigger line to cross and crossed it and I'm so stunned and disgusted at her homophobia/ignorance/neurotic paranoia/sheer idiocy that I'm just giving up on attempting any shred of a relationship with her. Bye mom, you went out being a fucking bitch!

i don't think there's anything wrong with talking about "gay" things

Oh FFS no one is arguing that.

xpost Stevie ugh, sorry.

i'm sorry stevo :( IM me if you wanna talk

i've never had to deal with too much of that in my family, which is something i take for granted... i can't imagine how discouraging it would feel.

I never did either until like the past 6 months!! I didn't know it even existed. It's like, coming out was totally fine, and all my friends were fine and my social groups were fine--I never had to deal with any problems, really--and then life suddenly knocks on my door and is like "Hi, I forgot to give you this enormous steaming bag of horse shit 3 years ago; sorry for the late delivery"

sorry Steve, I wish I could tell you what would help. Worry about yourself first, cuz it sounds like it could take time with her.

it's always so jarring to realize sometimes we know better than our parents

I've just made a delicious pan-fried tofu and am making penne vodka in a bit. We should have a recipe exchange here sometime.

wow! what are you doing, cooking and eating all day?? what was in the panfry?

Oh, it's the most AMAZING recipe by the magical Byanna Clark Grogan, and so simple!! Simply press a pound of extra-firm tofu and slice it into really thin slices (about 1/4 of an inch) and put it in a Tupperware container filled with:

3/4c water
2T soy sauce/tamari/Bragg's
1 1/2t nutritional yeast
1t sage
1/2t each: rosemary, thyme, onion powder

And keep it in the fridge til you're hungry, then dredge it in seasoned flour (I like using equal parts flour and panko and keeping the mixture in another container in the fridge) and pan-fry it on each side until golden

oh and shake the container every few days because all the spices settle

that sounds delish. second person who's told me about a recipe with the word "dredge" today -- i didn't even know it was a word!

I should probably learn to cook before I become poor.

I never did either until like the past 6 months!! I didn't know it even existed. It's like, coming out was totally fine, and all my friends were fine and my social groups were fine--I never had to deal with any problems, really--and then life suddenly knocks on my door and is like "Hi, I forgot to give you this enormous steaming bag of horse shit 3 years ago; sorry for the late delivery"

I THINK I'm about to cross this minefield with my parents.

Do your parents know yet? What are the details of said minefield?

They know, but the gag order would rankle John C. Calhoun.

Don't Ask Don't Tell works in many nonprofessional situations.

Steve you're getting the shitty parts out of the way. You could just put off dealing with it, have it hang over your head, then have to face it later when you're older.

30 minutes ago: I am making penne vodka because I have work at 4:30 and need to eat early

After just sauteeing four cloves of garlic and adding crushed tomatoes to bring to a simmer, my mom comes home. Upon walking in the door, she yells "WHAT IS THAT SMELL!! IT REEKS IN HERE!". I ask what she's talking about, and she screams "Were you cooking GARLIC or something?!?!?" and I said, "Yeah, I'm making penne vodka, what's wrong?"

She proceeds to start SCREAMING at me that she has to come home from a long day at work to her house smelling horrible and is making all sorts of writhed cringey disgusted faces like I stuck a rotting baby fetus under her nose or something, etc. etc. So I calmly explain to her that I am working early that night, and that I need to cook dinner for myself, and I'm cleaning up every bit of mess that I'm making, and that in addition I have no way of knowing precisely what time she's coming home because she often runs errands and doesn't come home until much later than 3, and that I'm sorry that she doesn't like the smell of garlic, but that I'm not doing anything wrong, does she understand that?

And she replies "I understand that this is my house and I don't want to come home to my house smelling like this after a long day of work"

Her subsequent suggestions were to have all my dinners cooked and finished before 2:00PM, or to simply not cook with pungent substances anymore.

what

a

freakazoid

http://motherboards.infopop.cc/groupee_files/attachments/3/9/1/39110533531/39110533531_Valium.jpg?ts=4948311C&key=3DDAEE566CE2FC1CEF5D646A5583BF0A&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fmotherboards.infopop.cc%2Feve%2Fforums%2Fa%2Fga%2Ful%2F53310533531%2Finlineimg%2FY%2FValium.jpg

she needs that shit, stevie. for serious.

anyway, yeah, it probably is just a spell, and my current haircut.

my parents are excellent. last night i did a layman's explanation of why lesbian woman tend to make less money than straight women, as opposed to gay men, who typically make more money than straight men, on average.

went something like:
"well, imagine a group of kids, girls and boys. the gay boys are intimidated and attracted to the big bro type boys, so they separate themselves. the straight girls are attracted to the big bro boys, so they coyly tease them from afar. and the dyke girls are more into sports and bro-type things, so they chill with the big bro type boys."

what i really wanted to say was, "read this book called, "Dude, You're A Fag," and much of it will make some sense.

what that book claims is that a culture that worships masculine dominance allows more androgynous or male-activity-oriented girls to act as they wish, while the feminine girls are supposed to worship the super-masculine boys. the less-masculine boys are derided and considered lowest on this totem pole, as they are not masculine and so are worshipped by no one (except, perhaps, themselves and older men).

woman who wrote it essentially lived in a public high school for a year, so i don't think she's pulling shit out of her ass. her examples are excellent, too.

I will have to read that book because I don't understand your layman's explanation at all, unless you mean to say lesbians earn MORE than their straight counterparts and gay men earn LESS.

okay, here's the run-down, i was being confusing.

in terms of average salary per group:
1. gay men
2. straight men
3. straight women
4. gay women

so, the gay women are ostracized by the straight women later in life, but never really ostracized by the straight men, since they're just 'one of the guys.' in some cases, this can lead to being a high-powered bulldyke attorney or something, but in a lot of cases, this ends with lesbians who can drink most men under the table and like working on cars. this is not a value judgment, but just something that has been noticed in sociological circles-- in other words, lesbians are accepted into straight male society in many ways, but they are also stigmatized as 'not real' or 'unviable' women, thus leading to issues surrounding pay, work, etc.

that is, only by 'masking' their homosexuality do many lesbians get to a point where they earn as much as a straight man. in a catch-22, straight women often have to be MORE masculine (ie they must mask their femininity) in order to earn as much as a man.

weird, right.

that said, this is about money, which makes me want to vomit, so fuck.

I guess YOU weren't being confusing, it's just that layman was confusED.

Try being a black lesbian, see what that gets you. (Not much, in terms of money.)

NO that IS still really confusing ...

> the less-masculine boys are derided and considered lowest on this totem pole, as they are not masculine and so are worshipped by no one

so how are gays #1 then when it comes to earning power?

contra-dicktory!

no kids and/or housewives to support, presumably- which frees them up to be workaholics at all times

yes i know the conventional reason why, i was looking for clarification from table is the table's posts which also said gays are the lowest..

> "read this book called, "Dude, You're A Fag," and much of it will make some sense.

you weren't unsure of anything before you read the book, were you? i kid, but i'm intrigued enough to go to amazon now

when you search for it, you also come across this gem:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518yzf%2Bi3OL._SS500_.jpg

"Dude, I'm Not Gay", October 22, 2007
By Joe Kort "www.joekort.com" (Royal Oak, Michigan United States) - See all my reviews

This book is a must read for anyone who wants to understand the punishment males receive througout their lives at the hands of sexism, patriarchy, homophobia and heterosexism.

In my book, 10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love I write:

Being raised male in the heterosexist culture means avoiding and distancing yourself from being viewed as gay in any way. Gay is synonymous with effeminate. This is inherent sexism, as if being associated with anything female would denigrate you. In our culture, being male is a privileged status, and anything else is viewed as inferior.

A number of times I've had a straight man notice my wedding ring and ask if I'm married. I'll say, "Yes," because I am. When he asks my wife's name, I pleasantly correct him and tell him that I'm married to a man whose name is Mike.

Often, the guy steps back and immediately exclaims, "Dude, I'm not gay!" He may then proceed to ask, "Why did you choose to tell me you're gay?" as if I had a sexual motive, or tell me he was "grossed out" by the idea.

Now, I never implied that he was gay by telling him I was, nor did I have any ulterior motive. I was simply correcting him, just as when people wish me a Merry Christmas. I nicely tell them I am Jewish; whereupon they usually respond politely by saying, "Oh, sorry! Happy Hanukah!" I've never seen anyone back away, exclaiming, "Dude, I'm not Jewish. Now all I can do is imagine you in a yarmulke in synagogue and I'm grossed out. You're trying to convert me?"

"Dude, I'm not gay" and "Dude, You're a fag" are both ways to distance one's self from anything "less than a man" in Western Culture!

hey awesome, here's another way of bemoaning the heteronormative hegemony by positing stereotypical identities on the marginalized!

ok, i mean, i think i can appreciate the arguments being posted here from the book, but it seems to be a question of gender identity, specifically the performance thereof -- not sexual behavior. conflating those two things just undermines the whole premise for me. in fact it seems kinda fucked up and patently false, to be honest.

paint yourself into a pink corner if you must -- making masculinity or the lack thereof the essential aspect of gay identity -- but i don't think it's a good way to challenge those dynamics, or even describe them.

what is important is that the conflating of such is a societal impulse, elmo, not necessarily my impulse (or that of anyone on this thread).

also, vichi, i don't know who the fuck you are, but if you 'kid' me about my intellect again, i will bitch-slap you back to the stone age.

(also, elmo, the context in which this all started was me talking to my parents. they're not dumb people, but unless i put things in the admittedly false dynamics as i described them above, i can't really talk to them about this sort of shit at all...that is, they'd be terrified if i started spouting judith butler or irigaray)

(they do love gus van sant movies, though) hah

yeah, but i don't know -- it's just so easy to hate the frat boys for being what they are, but they had no choice but to be born dumb, privileged, and straight.

or, perhaps, not-straight.

Boy, I'm away from this thread a few hours and I return to a discussion on the hermaneutics of hetero stupidity.

i don't hate the frat boys for being who they are, it's that so many of them make a conscious choice to hate on others who don't live up to their standards of 'masculinity' as they define it. i know a number of gay and non-gay frat boys who are great, but i also know a number who have actively made my life infinitely more difficult in social situations because of their insistence on performing certain gender stereotypes.

But you can say that about anyone not gay!

but couldn't we agree that such obnoxious performances of masculinity are borne out of anxiety or perceived instability of their own gender roles? and that they also feel the normalizing pressures of masculinity, but directed inward?

True, but some guys are just assholes.

yes, elmo, just as some obnoxious performances of femininity by gay-identified men are borne out of anxiety...as in, some gays are just assholes, just as some bro-dawgs are just assholes.

i guess what i'm trying to say that the search for an essential gay identity / community has as much to do with the conflation of "gayness" and femininity as the jocks yelling "fag" do.

I don't do these types of discussions, but after seeing a clique of fag-hags and gayboys put on an endless Broadway-spoof musicale at the office party last night, I'm prouder than ever to be a neo-butch gay.

exactly, elmo. i don't really think we're disagreeing.

>also, vichi, i don't know who the fuck you are, but if you 'kid' me about my intellect again, i will bitch-slap you back to the stone age.

- that sounds pretty GAY, and i'd like to see you try! ( i wasn't kidding your intellect, just your phrasing. and i'm guessing you're not serious either) also, it doesn't really matter "who" i am i think since i've been on ilx probably longer than anyone on this thread so for me to introduce myself now would just be silly (i hope i'm not here 'last' but ...sigh)

elmo: i don't think table is using these (obvious or not) arguments to denounce frat boys but to delineate the societal categorizing that frequently happens within "heteronormative" society. if you're "gay" you're automatically regarded as less masculine - an essentialist statement, but nonetheless true to many a frat boy, just as an example. you have to start the dialogue with where it is for these people if you want to progress it... and as table reminded us, he/she isn't assuming that anyone on this thread makes these assumptions, but American society at large

basically it reminds me of the attitudes i'd encounter amongst some of my straight friends in another part of the country: if you're gay, you're by definition castrated, whether you're 'butch' (which is seen as compensation, not organic masculinity) or not

that said, i think that i was influenced in high school when i read the book 'Fraternity Gang Rape,' by Peggy Sanday...the book details the culture of masculine aggression towards women on college campuses, but also deals a lot with the issues that boys/men face in terms of conflating masculinity with aggressive/violent heterosexual behaviors-- it made me feel quite hostile towards but also quite sad for many frat boys, whose lives have been groomed in such awful ways...

also, vichi, i wasn't serious... just letting my bitch out a bit-- tired. and yeah, you got the point i eventually made.

and to reinforce the stereotype, now i go shopping for a new belt-- mine has fallen apart after years of use.

**kiss kiss

see you gays soon.

i just saw Chuck and Buck for the first time - WOW

what great timing

oodly oodly oodly oodly FUN FUN FUN

it was great, followed up by reading the IMDB board wherein everyone asks IS MIKE WHITE GAYYY

i liked the one interpretation i read, of Buck & Chuck inverting their developmental stages by the end: Chuck goes from "adult" to stunted child since he buries his (gay or) bisexuality for a life of conformity, whereas Buck goes from child to free, self-accepting adult - liberated and ready to face life anew, and free...

...even though I don't particularly agree with it (I think Chuck just consciously did what he did at the end to help Buck let go..but this is also debatable)

ok, i don't mean to be contentious, but it's a bit frustrating -- having challenged a flawed / incomplete line of argument and to then be met with agreement on points, as though everyone already tacitly understands that the argument is flawed. i really don't feel like i need these dynamics explained to me, but what was the point in raising the line of argument in the first place? i don't mean to personalize arguments on the internet but i definitely feel like i wasted some time.

p.s. if someone asked me why gay women are generally lower wage earners, i would respond anecdotally that all of the lesbians in my life are, without exception, pink-collar workers (either in education, nursing, clinical & social work, etc).

and of course i mean argument in the sense of rhetoric, not emotion xp

perhaps you missed this, elmo:
the context in which this all started was me talking to my parents. they're not dumb people, but unless i put things in the admittedly false dynamics as i described them above, i can't really talk to them about this sort of shit at all...that is, they'd be terrified if i started spouting judith butler or irigaray.

there was never any line of argument, mostly me relating what i had said to the 'rents-- admittedly spouting rhetoric that i find pretty misleading and counter to my own understanding of the issue.

also, in a conversation (which is what i like to think of this as), there are no sides-- we're simply talking. unless that's a waste of time to you, then there's not much of a point of being here, in my opinion.

hey! my skin looks nice today!

yay sur! i have a zit. my fifth of the year-- why is it they're always near the corner of my mouth or under an eyebrow? weird.

i love the notion of counting yr zits (tho i've had too many to count this year since i usually break out when stressed)

zits are also another reason why beards are great great great = no one can see the POCKMARKED HORROR underneath

i'm at midpoint btwn zits and liver spots.

i wish i could wear nightcream, like antiaging? but it would def make me breakout

You know what word bothers me, whether used by gays or straights? "Pro-active."

how come??

cuz ppl really mean "active."

It's meaningless business argot.

i read the alumni updates from my high school, and all the douches are always: "I work in blahdy marketing finding pro-active go-to blahdy for blah" and i just laugh at how pathetic their lives are.

then again, they'd laugh at how incredibly poor i am.

Wallace Stevens was right: Money is a kind of poetry.

Entertaining sidenote: Milk does the body good:

sorry for the cunty sass up there, i was def a bit wound up from work situation -- i was on break in the midst of a busy phone day dealing with xmas shoppers & overnight shipping. now i am drunk with friends having trimmed the tree and made paper snowflakes. merry xmas gays of the internet:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/allocryptic/Photo987.jpg

pictured: d. lurks within the tree

'tis the season to be cunty!

table, is this you dancing at the front??

hi tiarnan!!

guys there are alll these sweets in the office. i'm buggin. and i'm ordering chinese today so this has the potential to be a very scary day...

these people and their tickets, man. here's my fav go-to line "well i'm gonna call the president's office"

well, if ya call the president's office, you know who they call? ME. THEY CALL ME. AND I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.

oh that must be table! well spotted ik,r?

the editing in that vid is horrific. as is kelley polar's voice (i like it on record).

yeah i'm pretty sure that's table.

also: hey guys! i haven't posted in awhile but i've been lurking.

So I saw "Milk" last night, good but not great. Emile Hirsch's Cleve Jones = precisely how I'd imagine table would be IRL.

providing 'extra service' in back of the camera store? :)

I'm amused by rather withering reviews Diego Luna has gotten. Uh, fucked-up drama queens DO act like bad actors! so he might've been brilliant!

P.S. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-16/the-return-of-chest-hair/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-16/the-return-of-chest-hair/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-12-16/the-return-of-chest-hair/

you know what there's a piece like every 2.5 yrs about this

and my hair has persisted thru all the trends.

I haven't lost the three I planted five years ago yet!

My chest hair is meager, and the worst part is, it only grows on the left side!! I have probably around 20-some hairs, all over my heart. Therefore I shave them. :(

awww hahaha

nair them!

I have often considered electrolysis or lasers, but I'm afraid that later they will start growing on the right and then I'm still all fucked up.

I have zero at all period :-(

I don't understand getting hung up on w/ or w/out. (cue Mr Rogers song on loving your chest for its specialness)

I would not mind being either with our without, but this inbetween place bugs me a little bit. (Not really all that much.)

I also have hairs growing out of the tops of my earsssss!!!!! Finding those made me feel old. I'm getting those lasered someday.

I just snip mine (when my hair is short enough that I can see my ears)

My best friend has tufts on his shoulders. We call them epaulettes.

a lot of guys get those!

I have the gayest little tuft of chest hair.

my chest hair is...well, you've mostly all seen my facebook profile

it's cute :P

i'm super virile and grow hair there eveyrday, in teeny amounts! but NO i'm not a bear!

or a cub!

KJB, do you like Tom Wilson records?

I've only heard "Lesbian Seagull" which is great and an awful EP of his songs done by others called Don't Mess With Mary. Do you dig him?

Is a winter gay someone who turns gay in the winter?

I've heard scattered Wilson songs over the years on WFMU, my reaction is more WTF than love but it beats Erasure.

hah hah, that IS me. what a great show-- it was during commencement week, and i helped book it, so i just hung out with Mike (kelley polar's real name) and Lewis (the bassist, an old friend of mine) all night. and Morgan Geist was awesome, he opened-- we went record shopping and had dinner together the next day. excellent times.

oh stevie, you flatter me. though in some ways, i do see myself in Jones' portrayal-- sentimental but real radical, and friends with tons of dykes, and really into drinking and dancing and sucking on things. especially the sucking on things.

(i do a+ work, boys.)

The local library's book store had a bunch of tapes of 80s gay and lesbian music, including Tom Wilson Weinberg.

Now I have the Changer and The Changed on cassette and vinyl!

Okay, seriously, SOMEONE has got to be gay in the making of this, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE. I refuse to believe otherwise:
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/18/strange-soccer-fashi.html

my chest hair is might, by the way. what's weird is that it forms a T....like a have a weird crucifix of chest hair or something.

also, gays, do you dig Omar, from the Wire? he might be my favorite gay ever on television.

http://foodcourtlunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/omar.jpg

i am deep into season 5 right now...and i am so wishing it had never ended. what will i do once i finish?

Does Duran Duran do a body good?

I'll bet no one here knows who Tom Robinson is. For shame!

He's glad to be gay:

We need some Brits on this thread. What happened to Martin Skidmore?

NO Bimble. Never heard of Tom Robinson. Why don't you school us?

it's a different band.

Tom Robinson married a woman. Traitor!

Bimble, don't overestimate yourself-- I knew who Tom Robinson was when I was in 6th grade. (oh ye olde dayse of spikey haire & pinning garbage to my knickers)

so will there be a NY FAP? Around the 28th-30th? I know Casuistry is here sooner.

(sheeit, I'm going to see Yo La Tengo on the 27th and Sandra Bernhard on the 28th)

i get there the 30th...but will be there til the 4th....so i vote for the 2nd or 3rd, mostly because i'll be otherwise occupied with old friends until then. that is kind of self-centered, but hey, the 2nd is a friday, so there's no excuse to stay in!

OH shit. Early R.E.M. WOW just fucking WOW

Cuyohoga

There's a dude who's gonna do a Chronic Town poll soon. I'm gonna fuckin die when that happens. I'm going to explode.

Michael Stipe is hot, really relaly really hot. I remember when he had a black hat when I was a teenager. I remember his chimney-sweep, cat-in-the-hat hat. Does anyone remember that? OH MY GOD. Have you seen him when he has that long hair and he does the "Pretty Persuasion" video?

I met a gay I really like hanging out with!

He is like that magic kind of gay that I thought maybe didn't exist - he is sort of a dude's dude (he and a friend and I sparred (w/ gloves) until 6 a.m. last night, he isn't afraid to fart amongst friends, he works gluing transponders to wildlife) but he is embraces less masculine things (he knits, admires nice pumps).

But he lives about 600 miles away in a tiny town in the Upper Penninsula (which explains his bro-like side).

TS: boyfriend vs. bromance

I need an excellent gay friend; most of mine are merely good.

Huh. It didn't even occur to me that I have a bro-crush on him.

But to answer, ideally bromance with a boyfriend!

^^^truest thing ever

is it possible to be best friends w/ a straight guy but NOT have it be a bromance? no, right?

Most of my best friends are straight guys! There's some healthy sexual tension.

i mean you have to clearly have an all-purpose, sexual-orientation-transcending definition of bromance there before that can be answered... how are you defining it?

I think that's a one-way street more often than not. I don't perceive much sexual tension with all my straight women friends.

x-post - i most definitely do *not* have or want sexual tension with straight guy friends. learned things the - wince - hard way

Most of my best friends are straight guys! There's some healthy sexual tension.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:28 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah same

there is little if any of that going on between me and my straight guy friends, and frankly i wouldn't even want to go there in the first place

sexual tension with "bisexuals"/questionings iz teh worst

>is it possible to be best friends w/ a straight guy but NOT have it be a bromance? no, right?

― usic soulchild (J0rdan S.), Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:27 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

wait, i thought j0rdan S. was asking this as a non-gay visitor to this thread. i'm sorry! are you the j0rdan someone referred to as being really wise for his age on another thread, btw - like are you the 15 year old?

i'm asking innocently

my very best friend and i acknowledge that we have a friendship that is beyond a normal guy/guy non-gay relationship. kinda hard to explain (nothing sexual) just there is more... there i guess? idk, i'd say we're emotionally invested than the norm i think. but i guess i'll rarely if ever have a good view on straight guy bromances since i more often than not catch feelings

haha 1. i am gay 2. i am 20, but ppl like to make fun of my age

here's a question to ask yourself: do you think he's cute when you're getting drunk with him kind of way?

haha well i mean i always think he's cute (he knows this) but of course when we're drunk things get a little more... touchy

i want to prevent pure young gays from falling into unrequited things, under the guise of "friendship." see threads from last year for reference info.

my very best friend and i acknowledge that we have a friendship that is beyond a normal guy/guy non-gay relationship. kinda hard to explain (nothing sexual) just there is more... there i guess? idk, i'd say we're emotionally invested than the norm i think.

This is how things stand b/w my best friend and me, in part because ten years ago I was quite in love with him. No lingering feelings on my part, but he went from being vaguely uncomfortable to relishing the attention.

here's a question to ask yourself: do you think he's cute when you're getting drunk with him kind of way?

Yes, and, again, it seems normal.

rarely on my end either - anyway it sux because i've never met another guy i like more than him let alone a cute gay guy. eventually when i have a serious bf it's going to be weird for the both of us - we acknowledge the slight attachment issues

if you pick up vibes that he's more touchy/flirty when you're both drunk, then just categorize it as a "when drunk," activity - do NOT file under the illusion of "he might have pheelings for me, cuz he's pheeling me" coz if he self-identifies as straight..that will only lead to trouble

my straight best friend is one of the last people on the earth i would touch with a 10-foot dick but there are definitely shades of bromance there all the same

if you pick up vibes that he's more touchy/flirty when you're both drunk, then just categorize it as a "when drunk," activity - do NOT file under the illusion of "he might have pheelings for me, cuz he's pheeling me" coz if he self-identifies as straight..that will only lead to trouble

That was our story ten years ago.

x-posts okay good. just filling in as protective gay dr phil here

>That was our story ten years ago.

did you stop before it led to trouble, or do you mean the trouble came..but you got around it?

if you pick up vibes that he's more touchy/flirty when you're both drunk, then just categorize it as a "when drunk," activity - do NOT file under the illusion of "he might have pheelings for me, cuz he's pheeling me" coz if he self-identifies as straight..that will only lead to trouble

― Vichitravirya_XI, Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah i know - i mean he's had a srs girlfriend for 4 years or something. i have absolutely no illusions, but we do have a weird and sometimes complicated friendship

that is the premise of like every other good gay p0rn ever

HAHA i did not know this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bromance%20Day

Bromance Day 10 up, 3 down
August the 14th (Exactly 6 Months after Valentines Day.) A day when its acceptable to show ya mates how much you love them with out it being gay!
Bromance Day is a day when A Hug, Dinner and movie. Things you normally do with a chick on a date but would rather do with your mate!

As my first, honest, powerful same-sex attraction, it was rather devastating, but I never told him until I'd walked on the embers a couple of years later. We made our peace with it, and once a while I'll bring it up, in large part to test how cool it is.

this thread tangent was inspired by my dancing with 2 straight dudes last night who were both way charming and attractive and very uh "intimate" w/ each other

As my first, honest, powerful same-sex attraction, it was rather devastating, but I never told him until I'd walked on the embers a couple of years later. We made our peace with it, and once a while I'll bring it up, in large part to test how cool it is.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:46 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

my first honest, powerful same-sex attraction was when i was a senior in high school and though for sure that the other dude was gay for me. he was not. this one i put it out of my head immediately and we have a better emotional connection than i did w/ the first dude

al: was he already in a committed hetero relationship when you told him? i think that makes a very key difference in the timing of these things. threat level diminishes extremely, relatively speaking

also: were you "bi" or "straight" before this particular attraction?

al: was he already in a committed hetero relationship when you told him? i think that makes a very key difference in the timing of these things. threat level diminishes extremely, relatively speaking

I deceived myself into thinking that he returned the attraction; he's as straight as they...come. Meanwhile these feelings forced me to an internal reckoning about my sexuality, for which I'm grateful!

I suppose this is the ultimate statement on the subject of bromantic dancing:

weird thing: i realize i hardly have any straight male friends that i see on a regular basis-- they all live in new york or philly, not in san francisco. and even they're really not straight-o types. like, i've cuddled with my friend s4sha when he was feeling shitty and alone one night, and my friend m4t is really into getting pegged by his girlfriend (and has had sexual encounters with guys in the past)... but otherwise, all my friends are ladies and faggots.

i used to be in love with an old ilxor (who has dropped out of the internet, it seems) -- that was revealed last winter around this time, and we went out and had drinks and a laugh and we're still really good friends. when he left 0berlin (i had a few more days left in town) for the summer, we both bawled like babies and couldn't stop hugging. it was rather sweet.

but no other bromance stories...except maybe with that kid c00per, who is very straight and so gorgeous and i swoon.... but he's a sophomore, undergrad, and i only see him when he returns to the bay area.

i usually quite like them but that michael song is truly hideous.

except maybe with that kid c00per, who is very straight and so gorgeous

he sounds hot

so much hotness in that video

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v252/2/113/1368330044/n1368330044_30147778_3186.jpg

here he is with my friend c0rd3lia. (they are not going out).

and no, he isn't 15. a solid 19.

god daaaaamn

geez im such a sucker for boys who look like that

no pun intended

wow he is very, very pretty indeed.

(an apt first post on this thread.)

he would look great in a sharp navy suit

in a romper suit more like.

Very pretty.

romper otm

This thread has been brought to you, today, by Gus Van Sant.

dude looks like brendan sexton III kinda

Eric, Mathieu Amalric - hott or nott?

j0rdan, are you part of the facebook gayxor group? and is your name j0rdan on there?

c0rd3lia looks quite amused.

>and no, he isn't 15. a solid 19.
i bet he was having enough sex at 15 anyway (but probably not with boys in college)

i think i am? i don't really remember though

i think im the only gay jordan on ilx so probably

Eric, Mathieu Amalric - hott or nott?

Having just seen The Diving Bell..., I'd say oui, but he was hawter in Kings and Queens.

yes. he's v hott in that.

Almaric is hot, maybe not hott.

Then again ...

http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/articles/images/bond22_amalric1.jpg

He's not handsome but he projects the air of a man who could conceive of terrible things to do to your body.

is he not handsome? i think he is but maybe i'm blinded by his charisma.

I'm not sure how old that picture I just posted is, but I'd add the extra T for that.

And, yeah, extra points for aggressive, French charisma.

can i ask something lame that i'm sure has been covered elsewhere?

for those of you who've come out in college or afterwards, how have you dealt with getting friend requests of people from high-school on facebook that ...you knew might do a double-take and re-evaluate their stored memory of you, when they've "added" you as friends? i don't want to dilute the "interested in men" part of my profile, but also don't want to turn these requests down.

it's just that i feel slightly uncomfortable belatedly "coming out" to people i never thought i'd be coming out to, and it's kind of a mildly disconcerting experience at times (like when being added by the jock-bro type guys i would occasionally eat lunch with, etc). anyone else?

maybe it's a more unique problem for me since i kind of consciously stopped keeping in touch with EVERYONE and just immediately left after graduation, as i had a bad senior year, and have since lived on the opposite side of the country...so there were no mediating contacts from that era who i'd already had come out to, etc. i

it's like a full reintroduction to a couple hundred people all at once, after a decade - and it blows my mind

i dont list interest for mainly that reason

Since a Facebook/MySpace request is not a promise of a reunion drink, I generally, with mild apprehension, add the alumn. I understand -- these guys knew you in another life. If I were to run into an alumn, I'd tell them when the (likely) question about the wife and kids comes up. That question, however, depends on how effeminate you were in high school; I've very rarely been mistaken for gay.

my interest is "men and women" but i specify that i'm only looking for "friendship" (regardless, many have asked me if i'm bisexual based solely on that)

and basically i couldn't give a fuck whether people i only vaguely was on any kind of terms with in HS knows if i'm gay or not. the people i know who mattered to me know already

i used to be in love with an old ilxor

L?

I have thought of that, Vichi, and I decided that I don't care who knows. Though it was a little weird for me when after my work Xmas party I met people from our office (125 miles away) and then they started friending me on FB. One lawyer I was 1000000% sure was gay (and so very cute and sweet) friended me but doesn't list his "Interest." Fucker.

Also, my gaybrocrush is going to make me throw myself on the third rail. I'm not sure if it's a sexy crush or just friend crush and that is part of the problem.

i don't want to dilute the "interested in men" part of my profile, but also don't want to turn these requests down.

in the case of old high school people i generally assume the school gossip networks will have done their work, but the only reason i keep the "interested in" bit there is for situations like this - if someone hasn't worked out that i'm gay for whatever reason then it can cut out a minor stage of confusion later. i mean if i think anyone's going to react weirdly to finding out that i'm gay, i can always refuse the request.

all this talk of crushing on yr straight friends is making me reminisce! i don't have any crushes going on right now, which can be annoying in itself, but it's better than futile crushing.

i hadn't crushed on a straight man for a while until recently with a builder/electrician i worked on a few projects with. he made me stutter and blush for the first time in a long time.

p.s good to see you on here, lex.

i would love to stutter and blush with a builder/electrician. gay people have insinuated that i'm strate lately. mainly i'd love to plug something up and talk about the blockage. that is these days./

oh this is a harv3ey milk thread sorry haven't seen it would rather hear the band

re. the builder: i spent a very interesting half hour or so half way up a ladder with his crotch in my face (he was at the top of the ladder with his head inside a suspended ceiling and i was passing him lights and connectors). mmmm.

saw milk! finally. franco and hirsch both highly smashable; good, expressive, if slightly maudlin turn by penn, wasn't as emotionally affected by it as I had expected as the bio format of the story got a bit blunt and heavy at the end? felt mild resentment during the opera/murder/flashback scenes, whereas my b/f shed some tears next to me. i dunno. but i quite enjoyed it -- especially the clothes, bodies, hair etc. of them fabulous furry freak boys of bygone times.

yeah, ain't c00op3r smashing? woo, so pretty it hurts me every time i see him.

in terms of the facebook thing, i have only rejected one person from high school thus far-- a kid who was quite homophobic, quite catholic, but always friendly to me for reasons i don't understand. everyone else? they all fuckin' knew, and i knew, so if anyone's surprised, that's their own shit.

his girlfriend is super fetch, je pense. they are v. cute together, tho i am immensely jealous.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1740/187/112/4303253/n4303253_31212631_9642.jpg

and here she is as a latin king:
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/120/38/1562580079/n1562580079_30246269_2303.jpg

The boy looks like that overemployed Michael Cera.

OK, now Eric & donna rouge have to explain their tepid reactions to Milk.

he and a friend and I sparred (w/ gloves) until 6 a.m.

I spar sometimes! Perhaps I should being 2 pairs of gloves on my next Chicago trip. :)

is it possible to be best friends w/ a straight guy but NOT have it be a bromance? no, right?

OK, apparently I don't understand "bromance." Define.

Bimble, I have an autographed copy of Chronic Town. (Bill Berry wrote "SORRY ABOUT THE NAME PAL.") I also saw them on that Fables tour along w/ the two before that.

You can't be obsessing on Mathieu Amalric in A Christmas Tale when Melvil Poupaud's in there (even in a buzzcut).

has donna rouge gone home to NJ for the week yet?

xp wow great getup -- she's so pretty!!

also big props on the descriptor "fetch" tabes ;)

i am still in nyc! but i'm not sure about movie tonight, a friend of mine is out of school's clutches finally and i promised him hangouts. think i'll be catching an early afternoon screening of sturges christmas in july on xmas eve tho!

well Casuistry had to bail on MoMA, he'll be around tomorrow.

urgh i cannot wait for NYC!!

though i am listening to r&b and eating ham sammiches and just chillin.

i watched "Man on Wire" with my moms last night, and sort of fell in love with blond-haired french boys again.

http://trishutchinson.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/petit3a1.jpg

regardless of my taste in guys, i would probably find table's friend more attractive if i admitting so didn't make me feel like a pedo

No offense to table, but I'm not at all attracted to that guy. I've had a thing for a twink or two in my day (i.e. now), but not that one.

i think he is attractive in a way that arouses moral quandries rather than ardent passions, much in the manner of twink porn made in former soviet bloc nations.

Naturally. But as I/we get older, 19 years old starts looking younger and younger. Which is where that mathematical formula comes in -- half your age plus 7 years is the max difference before it just gets pervy.

"broke straight boys"

lol at Eric's algebra, but that's intuitively close to the mark. who formulated?

i don't know where I saw that, but I think it holds remarkably. At this point in my life, I shouldn't go any younger than 21.

(OK, I rounded)

good thing Bogey & Bacall weren't gay.

I think that formula spans sexuality.

But I think it's definitely amplified when applied to notoriously ageist gay community.

oh so this is another community standard, rather than a moral one? Rules are made to be broken, get me David Wright.

The formula means I can date someone between the ages of 21 and 44. That sounds like a reasonable moral imperative.

my general rule of thumb: if i can't take you to a bar i don't want to date you

Half + 7 isn't an exclusively gay thing.

I am now old enough to date someone with AARP membership, exciting!

You definitely wouldn't want to date me, donna.

i think he is attractive in a way that arouses moral quandries rather than ardent passions, much in the manner of twink porn made in former soviet bloc nations.

classic sentence.

that was a good one -- very Lordian.

Holy shit. I think I'm allergic to men. When I have interactions with a guy I might like, I become mentally unstable and feel sick.

Your immune system may be outsmarting you.

Jesse, how heavy was this sparring? no mouthpieces, given the hour?

No, no mouthpieces. It didn't occur to me until later that even w/ gloves, we could have broken some teeth. I was hitting pretty much full force and I got a couple really solid blows to the head.

haha! yeah, that can be dangerous (and wrap your hands too). I'm sposed to have a rematch next year with a Canadian who busted my lip...

just saw "Milk" last night with my family in a movie theater in the suburbs- very moved by it even as I saw the way it was functioning to produce exactly that effect- it's weird, the crazy close-ups of franco and penn in the first love-scene were like the farewell to van sant's artier style, a kind of brief fling with his more structural approach before the warm feelgood momentum of mass-appeal biopic kicks in. I liked the script a lot, the way it didn't back down from showing how milk's business background underwrote his confidence, his sense of how to think radically but also how to be a politician and a player about it all. It was very weird to see people I know from San Francisco queer life showing up in cameos- strangest was seeing the real Danny Nicolleta sitting in the office with Penn and looking right into the camera just before Dan White shoots Milk- that produced a very strange double-vision effect for me. I had the "oh, I know that guy, he took my picture when I was a teenage go go dancer" kind of "hi mom!" scenester reflex, and then the deeper sense of the continuity of queer networks and queer life across generations, and how much is at stake in this kind of cultural dissemination as our mode of survival as a result of that, and why that makes a film like "Milk" matter in ways that kind of stand outside of good movie/bad movie evaluation. At least for me.

I need to go see Milk so I can stop avoiding talk of it.

Morbs, what does wrapping your hands do? (I would like to box more for real, but not sure how I would do so w/out knowing someone or spending a lot of money on a trainer (I don't care enough to do that).)

phew, sam is half my age plus 7 and a bit years.

well, here's the deal with boyo, perhaps explaining j0rdan and myself finding him attractive:

i am 24. i dated an 18-year-old for many months about a year ago. j0rdan is 20. the boy is 19.

in other words, 19 is my cut-off age. j0rdan's is 17. if we're going to do that whole math thing.

i don't find myself wanting to defend my like for eastern-european twinks any longer-- i'm attracted to all sorts of men, but if you gave me a 20-year-old named Pawel from Belarus who looked like the boy above, then goddamn, i would be happy to go to town.

(i've slept with guys who could've been my father, so whatever. no ish)

Jesse, it keeps you from breaking your finger on the other dude's face.

awesome, DD. I liked seeing Tom Ammiano heckling the antigay crusader after knowing him from the Milk doc and its DVD extras (like when he said at an anniversary ceremony, "They say Harvey's murder wasn't homophobic -- BULLSHIT!").

Now we have two simultaneous Milk conversations!

also, squirrel, i like your assessment of 'Milk'-- put a lot into words that i couldn't really grasp. problem is that the queer life and continuity across generations isn't as prevalent as i would like to believe...

well, the thing is, there isn't ONE "queer life."

you said it.

I have been thinking about that exchange between Milk and White where Milk says "it's not an issue, it's our LIVES" in this hyperbolic way- I think that that kind of exaggeration, that kind of swagger, that kind of "shoving it down their throats", the posturing of it, the deliberate self-inflation- it can strike outsiders as an index of some inner lack or void (when women do the same they are called hysterical by men who want to cut them down to size)- but the urge to be fabulous and larger than life *is* a sort of survival strategy for queer culture- and I do mean queerness as a culture rather than as a demographic multitude of people who have certain kinds of sex- if queerness is going to be a culture at all (and yes hopefully not one culture, not just only "a" single culture) then it has to go through this sort of self-aestheticizing and exagerrating and posing- and it will be used by people who are hostile to it as a means to condescend- but it's also a tactic for putting faces/phrases/postures/images/slogans into the bloodstream in a memorable and forceful way. Maybe I'm just ranting here about the shared logic of queer martyrs and divas and icons and "legendary children" (in the drag ball world) as part of a continuum of deliberate over-the-top-ness that is a bid for attention and survival between queers rather than as a bid for acceptance from straight society. Obvious maybe?

i need something warm to eat. i reallly wish i had chili :/

i guess i could heat up some beans but how boring is that?? very, that's how

pwned by chili

That was Tom Ammiano? I knew he seemed familiar!

(There would be three simultaneous conversations if someone cared to bump the actual movie thread.)

if i wasn't in a music hole, squirrel, i would be all up on the engagement. but might have to wait til tomorrow for me-- blog posts, decorating the tree, drinks with old friends. busy night ahead!

"They say Harvey's murder wasn't homophobic -- BULLSHIT!"

I don't disagree with this statement, but I think it was other things as well as homophobic.

milk isn't out over here for another month or so. goddamn i hate this country's time lag.

i still don't really want to see it

I BOUGHT CHILI!

wait, ramz, i still don't understand why you don't want to see it? EMILE HIRSCH!

http://thomay.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/emile-hirsch-shirtless.jpg

he's waiting!!!

wow!

(Not a scene from the movie.)

I think he'll look better when he's older. (Not that I have anything against young men, mind you.)

Well "it's not an issue, it's our LIVES" was much less hyperbolic in '78 (even in SF) than now. That gen of queer activists (at least those to the left of the Advocate-publisher types who thought Milk was too aggressive) seems more like Black Panthers (w/out guns) than they do the Southern Christian Leadership Conference...

Found a white chest hair this morning, the horror.

good morning guys! i'm in st. louis now. it feels nice -- yeah. we're going shopping now WOOHOO :D i'm going to buy a suit soon. a black one, thin.

PS you know who i think rocked the gray chest hair thing was harrison ford. but then he got it all waxed for some good cause or something

ok wow @ that emile pic

Alas we don't see the body hair in Milk.

dr, I've never seen that Sturges-written pic that's playing with Christmas in July. You going at 2:45 tom'w?

so have a nice Yule if I don't seeya, faeries!

the rain this afternoon doesn't surprise me. if anything, it softens the blow of the holiday season with seductive possibilities of blankets, takeout and movies with endless soundtracks.

now, do i go to the neighborhood gay bar tonight? it's showtunes night and supposedly everyone gets really into it... and this guy i met online kind of suggested i go. it's like, me in a bar, in a strange city with a bunch of strange men. i really don't know.

"me in a bar, in a strange city with a bunch of strange men."

i say yes.

Sur, did I tell you about the nurse I made out with in a StL bar 2 summers ago? what's the name of it, way south of downtown?

haha no i don't know that you did! it's called "The Loading Zone"

OK. Mine was called Clementine's. Very sweet bartender I talked to for an hour, looked like Gyllenhaal.

dude being in a strange bar in a strange city is the greatest! (i went to a gay bar in prague by myself once and ended up meeting very lovely - mostly american! - people)

morbs - yeah, 2:45 but i'm not sticking around for the second feature

bad wording. i meant that the clientele at the bar was mostly american - czechs are lovely people also!

Yes, it can be fun. Being a stranger alone in the city provides you with a motivation (or excuse) for talking to strangers.

xp: OK then -- Remember the Night is on TCM tom'w night anyhoo. Hope to see you in next couple weeks.

OK well i texted this guy jeff and told him to "let me know where he ends up"

i mean knowing me i'll try to meet up with him and wind up in kansas city

hey ramz are you originally from STL? i think next year i'll be there at some point

no sir just visiting my aunt -- what does stl have in store for you?

I don't care if I'm abusing this forum. Maybe I am. But thanks to The Reverend (closest ILXor to me geographically that we know of, he said our homes were about 8 miles apart which is about right) check this LAY_DEEE out, she is the jazz shit of all jazz thingamajigs. She is HOTTTTT. In a good way that I believe faggots should follow. LOL. Cause wherever she's going, I want to go there. :)

&

it's not abuse it's just that i'm pretty sure no one on this needs advice from you on how to be a good "faggot" or even that there is a recipe for being a good one based on issues of taste. it's patronising and it's a turn off.

i've never really been told "you need to listen to this cuz you're gay"

is this a thing?

my skin looks really great today but i don't feel so hot. i want a pizza, and solitude.

I prefer "you need to suck this cuz you're gay"

Same. I'm much more likely to pay attention to that.

So hey, I've lost a couple of pounds through the magic of not eating. Normally stress makes me pig out, but this time it's miraculously made food repulsive. Why can't it always be thus.

congrats! normally people are gaining weight at this time of year

i've been good this year tho. i've been doiing that appetizer thing at dinners out -- you know like 2 apps instead of an entree? i just love that. it's like more flavors less guilt

2 apps don't = 1 entree?

it depends but yes they do. i guess i usually get 1 light and 1 like fried goodness thing or somethin. mostly it's just about having more flavas.

Sorry for the delay in the yummies I promised. I've been "Fuck you, God!" ill with food poisoning or the flu or some such barbarity. Still creaky with a tummy not suited for inhaling rafts of food this afternoon, a sadness. But Eric (and anyone else who wants it), here's A John Waters Christmas. I hope it's not too late to be of actual Xmas use to you.

Queer boot coming soon, I promise.

Merry Season to all!

Oh that's YSI so I think it's only up for a week.

oh ya merry xmas :)

m xms

Guys, it's been too long.

yea wtf

!!!

ain't been feelin' so chatty lately

http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1351/1351588pldqq516zu.jpg

by the way I am so glad I do not live at home anymore, my entire family are now completely obsessed with television and have bought recliner sofas and a massive flatscreen television, like, actually humongous.

also, if I take another long posting break do I get a cute picture card when I come back?

also, Ramzi, have you ever seen Breakfast on Pluto? It's on tv and we are watching it, I think you would totally love it, because it is hilarious.

i believe morbs really likes breakfast on pluto? i haven't seen it myself

also t1arnan welcome to my family (there are seven tvs in my house)

i have not seen that!

and of course you're always welcome to a welcome home card :D

also t1arnan welcome to my family (there are seven tvs in my house)

are you fucking serious? there's only seven rooms in our house, how do you live

yes, I like Bkfast on Pluto a lot, the best Neil Jordan film other than The Butcher Boy maybe.

Pat McCabe is a solid gold genius.

t: they live by watching LOTS OF TV

nb: i don't live here anymore now

what should i do if i'm locked out of the apt when i get into NY tomorrow?

i.e. where should i shop

PS i really love TV, on many levels. i appreciate the entertainment, and relish the absurdity of the programming. i also adore commercials, and find the experience as a whole an unparalleled resource when it comes to tapping into the american collective consciousness.

i'm also addicted to white noise. addicted.

ooohhh i need a new years outfit. it will be built around ten diamond bracelets on one arm. i'm thinking gold.

well the bracelets are really thin, so really twenty would be better -- i want like a sleeve effect. but that's too much money for an outfit.

There is little I pursue more avidly these days as staying as far the hell away from the American collective consciousness as I can.

Good morning, gays. It's 73 degrees, I've a sore throat, and a new camera. What kind of trouble can I get into?

i need to pee. does ilx dare me to wet myself?

Did you know that T.R. Knight is 39 and his boyfriend is 19? Wow. I just learned that.

I am deeply in love with that man.

T.R., not his bf.

http://www.greysanatomyinsider.com/images/gallery/tr-knight-and-mark-cornelsen.jpg

t.r. is 39??????? no fuckin way!!!!!

we all have AIDS?!?!?

You haven't seen that ad campaign? We all have AIDS!

I was very surprised to find that T.R. Knight is 39.

Last night and the night before I was talking about T.R. Knight and 2 different people told me, independently of one another than I'm cuter than him and my heart soared!

pics pls!

http://www.flylip.com/news/images/53-1180070171-tr-knight-goes-pink.jpg

Isn't that TR Knight?

i've never seen him before but imdb & wiki both say he's 35.

That is T.R. Knight, yes. I'm not sure I have any good pics of me handy.

Huh. I guess you're right. I read on Perez Hilton and another site that he was 39.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v296/139/121/1309983927/n1309983927_30091709_8405.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/2842107680_0d71814866.jpg?v=0

I wonder where that shirt went.

Question: I was looking at the Facebook "6 Degrees of Separation" thing and I saw that it said "Sign up to see who is viewing your profile....."

Uh, is this possible? B/c the thing is, I've been cyberstalking someone who has this feature installledf;alkdsfads;flkj

Isn't that something that a lot of apps advertise to get you to sign up?

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/object3/657/81/l34265474321_5267.jpg

I hope it's not true b/c I've been one this person's page rather immoderately b/c I have a crush.....

why don't you just join and then see if you can see as well, you never know, he may have been immoderately looking at yours....

isn't "we all have AIDS" the campaign that lasted about a week because it was about as popular as New Coke, and way more revolting?

I joined and I don't see a way to see who has been looking at my profile.

By the way, crushes are terrible and this person is not even attainable, as he lives a long, long ways away.

This is the only good picture of me I can find!

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1810/139/121/1309983927/n1309983927_30218913_9220.jpg

hawt!

i have a thing for rolled up sleeves

today I went chopping wood but I was too lazy to unload it off the trailer and now i am sick and will have to do it in my sickly state tomorrow.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Thespis_-_Illustrated_London_News_Jan_6_1872.png/800px-Thespis_-_Illustrated_London_News_Jan_6_1872.png

hope yall had a <3<3<3<3 xmas

hey "roxy"!

hey "tiarnan"!

hey rox <3 xo

jesse, you do look like t.r. but i feel like you have the kind of face/features that will age a lot better than his - he has too much of a baby face.

Thanks for your kind words. I was hoping that it didn't seem like I was fishing for compliments.

I remembered that I need to try to not be full frontal! My face looks fat that way.

full

frontal

xpost hahah me too!!

i also get this awful double chin thing happening sometimes, i'm so self conscious about it.

Crap. That was to read "to be PHOTOGRAPHED full frontal"

http://www.shaveeverywhere.co.uk/

SFW.

saw Sandra Bernhard last night for the first time in awhile (Sarah Palin and Rick Warren jokes, buncha songs I didn't recognize). One of my tablemates came down the stairs at the Public theater and "smashed into her titty."

20 years ago I didn't get the '80s fashion refs in SB's act, now I don't get the Project Runway refs.

Morbs, you bad fag you.

There is little I pursue more avidly these days as staying as far the hell away from the American collective consciousness as I can.

Except in physical proximity, right?

you are blowing my mind.

but Alfred, the night before I recognized the opening bars of "She May Call You Up Tonight" when Yo La Tengo played it even tho I hadn't heard it in 20 years!

Yo La Tengo is faggy?

nope. It's not very analogous at all.

I've never met a straight person who likes Yo La Tengo

I've never met a fag who likes Yo La Tengo.

If you had brought your phone charger last year, you'dve met me.

I've seen em play about 35x.

can't remember last time i even listened to them but i saw them at maxwell's in HS (one of the chanukah shows) AND still own the t-shirt

I know about six gays who are big YLT fans and have never met a straight person who brought them up in conversation.

TS: My straights vs your gays.

i have no idea who TR Knight is.

great Xmas, horrific post-Xmas. i hate extended family, love my parents. wish it was just the three of us.

anyway, i've been hating the internet as of recent-- no blog posts, no ilx, no nothing-- and since i am going to be in the whirl of NYC for the next couple days, i'll still be away quite a bit. BUT SOON, my fairy friends, we shall be reunited.

actually, also, ahem: are we still going to FAP sometime at the beginning of the new year? the 2nd?

yall can call me too, my # is on the FB profile, i'm pretty certain.

2nd wd be good for me, tabes! I might have some naughty things to do on the 3rd. what boro you staying in?

i dunno-- probably in brooklyn with some peeps, but it all sort of depends on where i end up...hah.

i can def. do the 2nd

well, check on NYD to decide Brooklyn v Manhattan?

Yo gay bwoys and grrrls. Get Queer To The Core!: Queer Rock From The Vaults! here. Act fast. And grab that John Waters Xmas disc I linked to above before it expires! Merry 2009!

found yr # tabes. I'll call you by Fri if I don't hear anything.

Um, hello! Download the f outta that shit, homticulars!!!

HAPPY NYE to all my ilxor aunties n chickens n fairies
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/3156013416_847f851792_o.jpg

so is FAPping a thing for fri. night the 2nd? and can i suggest a bar that isn't metropolitan if we do it in brooklyn?

Thx Kevin! Love the John Waters one btw.

On Gayface

http://www.pen15club.net/2005/09/11/predestined-the-anatomy-of-gayface/
http://www.pen15club.net/2006/02/12/gayface-ii-son-of-gayface/#more-258

It helped me understand HOW, but not WHY.

suggest away, dr, but you or tabes phone me w/ final decision! are Sur & Steve available?

that gayface shit is beyond tedious

Love the John Waters one btw.

Oh good! Glad you could nab it.

uh, if tabes happens to read this... dont know if u have any bars in mind, but my nominations would be Excelsior in Pk Slope or Westside Tavern (Fri bear DJ night in basement) at 23rd & 9th if Manhattan is yr choice. We doing this around 10, 11 if we can? donna rouge has yr number, I'll check my machine after 7.

I saw Milk. It was inspiring.

well, it appears the table has vanished into the temptations of NYC. I hope he's OK.

yeah sorry i never got back to you guys, i ended up staying in, not feeling too well (in more than one sense)

aw, feel better in more than one sense.

I need a great big man with a great big cock. That's what I need.

So I was recently made aware of the Guerilla Gay Bar phenomenon, as there seems to be a branch in Providence. Have any of you queers ever attended such an event? I'm thinking of maybe attending the next one here.

For those not familiar: a secret cabal of gays select a local "straight" bar and spread the word via social networking sites to all interested parties, giving the order to descend on the selected "straight" bar at a selected date and time.

I'm interested to attend once before I render a judgement on whether it's any good / any fun. But the general idea -- well, I'm not sure if it's to promote queer 'visibility,' or to expand the gay scene beyond the regular gay bars, or what. What does a gayLXor think?

sounds very 1992.

The only thing I remember hearing about in NY along these lines in the last couple years are "leather invasions."

alas, if i lived in a city that had more than like 8 gay bars i would probably think this was lame and unnecessary

i mean, shit, the signage for the providence eagle is done up in COMIC SANS

pretty dire

queer nation would do this iirc

i'm all for there being "secret cabals of gays" no matter what the occasion

I googlged GGB and found the LA site. It seems like it could be fun, but I'm not sure I quite understand the motivation. Most "straight" bars I care about at all, I already go to, and they already have some gay people. (This could be the result the North Side of Chicago being a de facto gayborhood....and could explain why we don't have a chapter listed on the LA page.)

Yeah, I can't see that resulting in anything more than a shrug at most bars I frequent. Like, "Oh, looks like some gay guys are having a party over there. Anyway..."

This might be marginally more significant outside of capitals of Sodomy like NYC and Chi, but I doubt it.

An invasion of gays could only help my local watering holes, as long as martinis of many colors stay the fuck away from me.

Even in Greensboro, NC, this wouldn't be all that big a deal. (I'm sort of assuming that the point is to cause a scene.)

It might work in Clearwater or Topeka.

Gayz in demanding attention shockah!

honestly, i'm not sure the intention is to force a confrontation or cause a scene -- rhode island is, by and large, rather tolerant, but the fact is that the gay bars are a rather seedy and made up of a pretty insular cast of characters. (not that seedy is bad per se, but i'm not always in the mood for it). but there are lots of gays, myself included, who tend to shy away from the gay bars because their clientele is tragically lame.

if this sort of stunt offers me a chance to meet queers who usually stay away from the gay bars, then i am all for it. besides, who doesn't want more gay friends in town?

Yes, good points. The way the LA site read, the group was made for guys who are tired of the same old bar, which would mean that only the venue would change, not the clientele. But if it brought others out of the woodwork, that'd be great.

Seems like it's a way to create your own private gay bar ... where you don't have to worry about getting chased/groped by a troll. I can dig.

i only "frequent" one gay bar in nyc and it's not one of my preferred haunts - for one, it definitely ain't the cheapest

anyway, if i go -- and i think the next event is this coming friday -- i will get back with my observations. obviously a lot will depend on which bar gets invaded.

Yes, please give us your reaction.

i went to a gay bar on friday night and it was so depressing! i can't believe i ever go to those places without friends in the wings. i felt like a tiny fish in a deep, dark, slutty ocean.

I closed the PkSlope bar on Thurs night.

i felt like a tiny fish in a deep, dark, slutty ocean.

lol yes

btw d. & i hosted our first houseguests in the new apartment this weekend. awesome, laid-back williamsburg lesbians who like to play charades and drink whiskey A+++ would host again

there is only one gay bar in Limerick I think, I'm not actually really sure if there is one actually.

omg elmo that sounds great! wait i'm sorry i'm so out of it, but are you here now?? i forgot where you were moving to

also slightly off subject: group play with strangers C/D

Do you normally have group play with friends?? That seems strange to me.

lol i guess not.... so are you saying this is acceptable?

xxp: We're all strangers, and we die alone.

Oh. You're talking about with the S.O. not being involved....yeh, I don't know.

yeah, fuck if i know

Almost related: I'm really over random hook-ups. It's been over 2 months since I saw the business end of a man, and that's been OK with me.

i'm glad you're more at ease than i am. i've just learned that i can't conflate my expectations any further. i need to know what i want and who can give it to me. thanks for the wisdom, 2009.

i am "on hiatus" now, as it were

I missed both a date-bait kinda thing (woulda been my first) and a "party" bcz I was asleep by 11 Saturday night. Message?

i need to know what i want and who can give it to me

hai guys I'm getting bored with my nominal boyfriend.

Not sure that I'm "at ease," but around October, the hook-ups stopped being fun. I'd like to:
- have conversation before/after
- be with the same guy more than once
- like the guy at least somewhat

/New Years' realizations and things to take to therapy

I missed both a date-bait kinda thing (woulda been my first) and a "party" bcz I was asleep by 11 Saturday night. Message?

― Dr Morbius, Monday, January 5, 2009 12:31 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i wrote a song called "missed the party again" because of nights like this

That is what I get for drinking at bar w/ ILXors during football playoffs earlier. Probably saved some cash.

I wonder if we'll next see the table is the table here or on a milk carton?

the business end of a man

the business end depends on the nature of the business, i suppose

ramz, we're still in prov., our guests from this weekend live in bklyn -- d. & i may be making a trip down late feb, tho

ohhhh ok :)

i was like girl did you move here and i didn't know it!?

hey NYC, the divey Uncle Ming's bar is now all-gay all the time, as The Hose.

HX: What’s the vibe at The Hose gonna be like?
Paul Short: The Hose is the best elements of Uncle Ming’s: Latenight atmosphere, hot bartenders, great music. The Hose is the sort of place where you could have a super secret rendezvous with a sexy spy and stick your tongue down his throat or get fucking trashed on the cheap and dance on top of the bar. Art, fashion, music and fun without the attitude!

Any other parties in the works?
For now, we’re keepin’ it simple. I’ll be throwing a filthy men’s party called Mooseknuckles and we have these young fucks, Ashton Anderson and Ryan Smith, doing a hot monthly called Rocket. We have a kicking New Years Eve party planned! Lots of surprises!

HX gives me a big gay headache

mooseknuckles, huh? not v. appealing.

i am all for male crotch but male cameltoe is nothing to fetishize. who in holy hell wants a seam separating their testicles??

did they invent this m.k. term? It needs a hit single.

received the newest issue of BUTT today

d. got me a subscription because he is pretty much the perfect christmas gifter

I'm going to go hang out with activist gays and make protest signs tonight.

I should probably come with a slogan in mind.....

http://www.hauntedventures.com/2007NEWTEMPLATES/NoveltyCostumes/MilkCarton.gif

i am sorry gays.

i sometimes dread computers. and plans.

plz forgive me and come visit me in san francisco.

love
t

Uh...so I went to the gay activists meeting last night and it was cool for the most part. I met this really cute, scrubby hippie dude and we hit it off pretty well, so I was like, oh, cool! We went out and got Thai and all was lovely.

Today I see him on FB and....

Interested In: Women

Did you discuss cocksmanship at all?

Now that we got two gay threads going (one of which is unofficial), I'm confused!

that is not a gay thread, it is a bisexual thread

bisexuality is confusing.

I had an endoscopy yesterday, and doc sprays yr throat that diminishes the gag reflex. FINALLY!

for a second I thought you wrote "gay reflex."

http://jackwolak.com/7/3339.jpg

I bet you OWNED that Japanese 12". Or did you prefer "The Wild Boys"?

no, never bought a thing from Porky Pig & friends. Unavoidable in that era.

How y'all doing?

Two of my best friends announced the dissolution of their relationships, including one divorce. Gay life = da bomb.

Have them write HRC and tell em to get a few more issues to go w/ garriage, then.

they're hets!

(your suggestion still works, though)

oh, so these ppl have good records to divide up.

zing!

2009 is mostly a piece of shit so far

Mine's going pretty well. It could be the year of lasting change for me.

I've met a lot of hottie activist boys, that's for sure. Nothing hotter than an athletic Socialist.

^the mind boggles!

Oh god, there was one of those in my sociology class in college and I have to say I agreed 1,000 percent with that sentiment at the time. I'd probably have a little (lot) less tolerance for the self-righteous soliloquy these days.

Collective farm boys, eh?

Uh...picture of me at a Belgian beer tasting from 2005 from a friend's Flickr stream

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/10514543_49aad773c5.jpg?v=0

I just found this tonight and I do not recall smuggling a baton that day.

wau!

I'd probably have a little (lot) less tolerance for the self-righteous soliloquy these days.

Or for anyone who can't see that the Democrats will save us all, right?

Not exactly the same thing there, is it?

Probably not, but of course democratic socialism will get absolutely nowhere in America, ever, despite the fine early 20th-century efforts of some Wisconsinites. :)

http://www.biography.com/biography/images/episode_images/Ed_Gein_320X240.jpg

that's not Robert LaFollette. (or is it?)

No, that's Ed Gein. The person who I immediately think of whenever someone says "Wisconsinite."

oh, I've never gotten into his story. (tho I know to say "geen")

Have you read or seen Wisconsin Death Trip (is that the title?) about the crazy ass town where everyone was crazy?

By the way, the picture I posted is an illusion. Sad to say.

I think I realized that, otherwise you would have a lucrative FT career in a disreputable field.

As for "sad to say," I think there's a point where big just becomes disgusting. But I may be in the minority on that one.

I think there's a point where big just becomes disgusting

Hmm.

There's just a limit to the suppression of the gag reflex, and other barriers.

Hmm.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn

I take it you either disagree or I accidentally hurt your feelings.

If it's the latter, I'm sure you'll get over it.

what feelings?

Dang, I was hoping we'd at least get to another thread before I had to admit Morbs is totally right about relationships. :(

(Frowny is a signifier not of sadness but rather embarrassed capitulation.)

You people. Carry on. Oh yeah Eric -- Showgirls with the Shmader commentary plays in the background as I type.

I have mixed feelings about that commentary, but any enthusiasm in Showgirls is enthusiasm and, thus, good.

And all is well. Supposedly Shmader did a commentary for Can't Stop the Music at a screening in Seattle recently.

Now that movie deserves every bit of playful scorn it has coming to it. Do the milkshake, the milkshake, do the shake!

"...one more time!"

I once was lost but now am found! Looks like I got some catching up to do.

I started watching Oz and am madlessly and hopelessly in love with both Beecher and Keller (more Keller)

wait madlessly is not a word.

condolences, eric?

Not necessary, but thanks.

ANNOUNCEMENT: i came out to the mormon fam, they pretty much all knew, but it felt good.

now i've just got to stop drinking so much, then enjoy life. suggestions???? lol

like join a ragget (lol) ball club, give back via some aids organization, flog and whip some bitch in a leather class, bottom for a guy with a mustache, clean my apartment, i kind of think cleaning my apartment is 4 tomorrow

omg sorry raggett

now i've just got to stop drinking so much, then enjoy life. suggestions????

Nope, that sounds like a pretty good plan.

I suspect I will be single again soon. Maybe it does do the body good.

What makes you suspect? I'll admit that I was (for a change) not the direct initiator of the breakup, though I pretty vehemently agreed when the subject was brought to the table.

hey, fun times here:

and rodney in the coda

eric h., i tried to look as far upthread as i could for more info on your breakup. call me ishmael. i'm sorry to hear it if it's final. i need a start, you know?

What makes you suspect? I'll admit that I was (for a change) not the direct initiator of the breakup, though I pretty vehemently agreed when the subject was brought to the table.

I sense a big argument coming, after which things won't change. We were friends before lovers, which means we had no mandate to change our problems.

Not a whole lot of info to tell, matt. I don't typically do relationships, so it was probably misguided from the start. It might have been on the last thread, but I did start this one with relative optimism because I thought he had the qualities I was looking for in a relationship. He did; it's just that I wasn't looking for a relationship.

I mean, that's what's hitting me hard about this whole thing (if anything, I mean) ... not so much the breakup because it's pretty clear I wasn't that into him and he, in turn, lost interest in me. What really sucks about this is that it only provides more evidence that I'm just not programed for a relationship. But, you know, can't fake the feeling, et al.

I'm not as adamant on the subject as I may appear. I just don't look for anything along those lines, ie "Hell is other people" only if you ask too much. Anyway, hugs.

Yeah, I remember something about it on the old thread, and you saying you weren't programmed for longer relationships. I wonder if I'm the same way, though I want to wish I'm not. (I seriously wonder, especially after tonight.) The crux of this whole coming-out thing with my parents and all my married siblings was: if you still own this retarded timeshare ten years from now, which you will, i want to bring some long-term bf there and get equal treatment with temple-married hymen-stealing dickbags and cunts. I think I've bought into the equal-partners-within-traditional-marriage-bounds thing too early or with too much naif.

x-post i love "'Hell is other people' only if you ask too much." What do you ask for, Morbs?

as little as possible? honesty?

yeah

i like honesty, but i like 'as little as possible' even more ;_;

more and more i think sex is something people should make public -- everything else they should keep under wraps, very tight rayon-mix raps are preferable.

I just came here to that I read that Gus Van Sant was originally wanted Robin Williams to play Harvey Milk. Horror averted!

In the Q&A with Van Sant in my copy of the My Own Private Idaho script, that version of the film was in "pre-production"

I think Williams was possibly 'attached' to the project before Gus was.

Williams would've been pretty awful, no doubt.

Exchanged a few more postmortem e-mails that at least put me in a better state psychologically about the relationship. It's nice when breakups can be this cordial. Still doesn't solve the riddle of, as Matt put it, "wishing" to be programmed one way and not being such, but at least a friendly breakup can let me repress that whiny emo shit.

hmmm, I can't get with being programmed for anything, even as an idle wish.

EH, don't read Against Love for at least a week.

Ha, no danger of that, I'm sure.

I'm sure in a few days, I'll get really militantly single just as I always used to be. For now, I'll try and learn a few things about myself.

Haha, wtf j/k!

A good slut period always cleanses the palate. Not a long one, maybe 2 or 3 years.

Whatev, I'm even less interested in being a slut than being in a relationship. The pressure to be one of those two things is exactly what stresses me out.

I know I'm "wasting my youth" or some such business, but whatever.

No pressure!

Except when most appropriate.

Was there ever a concensus here re Against Love? Can someone sum up the opinions expressed?

I can sort of see what sort of mentality leads repressed homos to try to become priests, so the story goes.

xp: It's been maybe 3-4 years since I've read it, but basically its premise is that all romantic/sexual relationships are insistently force-fit into society's template for bourgeois coupling, until both parties' lives are consumed with behaviors, goals and things neither of them wants, sometimes for 50 or 60 years.

i've been going to gay bars w/ my friend a lot lately since now we're both a) on break and b) single again. his batting avg is higher than mine, to say the least

joke's on him tho, he went home with an 18-yo last night, lolz

i made out with lots of guys the other night. it was tres silly. almost made a man cheat on his husband?

anyway, san francisco. missed it. how fare the rest of you?

Scrabble night. Tried to use the word "two-timed." Don't hyphenates count?!

SPOTTED:

http://www.homo-neurotic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/_059.jpg

nb: clever sign on tap

ok Eric, what are the "dirty politics" perpetrated by Harvey Milk in the GVS film? telling Moscone he'll regret not coming through on gay issues? That's just plain politics.

i need to learn to take my coat off at bars

I need to live in a city where men bring coats to bars.

I wonder when I will have a drink w/ ramz

and is that Eastern Bloc?

IIRC threats and veiled blackmail are thought of as sort of dirty, but hey, he's in the right, right?

way less dirty than our incoming savior's chief of staff

Paraphrasing: "We supported you bcz you said you'd address our issues. If you don't we will not support you next time." If that's blackmail, let's all do it please.

ya that's the Bloc. just happened to run int joe. morbs i would love to have a drink soon, maybe this wknd? not sure what i'm up to but we should touch base

could be! This Sat is the Metrop night I go to, haven't been in a couple months.

hey gays, play w/ the gif:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/aretha-franklins-hat/raving_over_arethas_hat

where does the hat end?

I think I'm going to attend a Qu33r N3rds at H3art meet-up. Wish me luck. (I typed "lunch" first - lol)

g'luck, and after tell us HOW nerdy.

My straight friend tells me that at the straight meet-up, the girls were OK, but the guys were "there for a reason."

Pictures of the QNAH suggest a higher caliber of attendee than the men at the straight one.

i am being picky on this language front now but i don't think you can be a nerd "at heart" because nerdiness comes pretty specifically from the brain//???

It's a play on words - it's a singles group for "nerds."

That's a word that gets thrown around a lot these days.

I'm not a nerd (am I?) but I am a fan of them (amn't I? )

ok. got it.

now i am resisting the urge to go into the taxonomy of "nerd" vs "dork" vs "geek" etc etc

I thought about getting into that (here and otherwise w/r/t the meet-up) but I got very tired when thinking about it.

In other news, I have had an unrequited crush (also: long-distance) for nearly a month now and I have resisted talking about it until now. He's teh nomnom :-/

they only do those meetups in NY by age and for "professionals," usu.

I guess self-aware nerds are the healthiest.

Yeh, that was the other thing - they SAY they're for "professionals" but I don't really know what that means. It's sort of an annoying term, you know? I mean, I guess technically I am a "professional" in some sense? but I don't say that ever.

I would never wanna meet guys who identify as such (or more to the point, consider it a standard to be met).

i called my bf & i "a professional couple" when sending out emails to craigslist apt listings

which is true? i guess?

i am a professional insofar as i sit at a desk and do paperwork 9-5 and sometimes wear a necktie and draw a living wage for my efforts

Me, but without the necktie. Hooray!

You wear a tie?

sometimes. but i am the only person in the office to ever do so.

I'm a nerd but I'm thinking gay geek is less my type than I originally thought, especially when they verge into hardcore Poindexter territory, et al.

Hardcore Poindexter coming from Falcon Video

SCI-FI & SODOMY