who are you a stan of?

who do you defend to an unnecessary degree? who do you know embarrassingly minute trivia about? who has induced you to spend more money than warranted for cultural products?

inspired by realizing yesterday i am basically a huge obama stan

i am also a stan of:

• bruce springsteen
• biggie
• jacques derrida
• peter gabriel
• lydia davis
• j.l. borges
• james joyce
• various former professors

I are a stan of myself.

good question!

im having a hard time answering it tho.

i was sort of tempted to include specific movies & books & tv shows on this list since i act the same way toward them w/ the excessive defending & knowing-way-too-much, but im pretty sure you can only be a stan of a person and not of say blade runner

nabokov

first that come to mind are:

david foster wallace
tom waits
woody allen

btw my list up there is basically ppl who i am ok with admitting i am a stan of, there is probably another list where i find my standom embarrassing and will not reveal it

yr okay with admitting to be a derrida stan? lol.

??? put up ur list, fool

lol i am trying to hold back from getting into it re: derrida and launching some kind of impassioned & unnecessary defense, thus confirming my standom

Should I start a stanclub?

special guest stars mark bronson

Hold on, bathroom break, the shit hits the stan

Orson Welles
Bis
MBV
Ipswich Town Football Club

max, you must be a stan of markets and their unmatched power to expand freedom.

Syd Barrett
Renegade Soundwave
Thomas Leer
Richard Widmark

Michelle Marsh
Sophie Howard
Lucy Pinder
Keeley Hazel
Marc Loi

Oh god, my list is probably just a bunch of guitar players, I suck.

Frank Zappa, but not as much as I used to be.

Michael Mann, Leonard Cohen, Gregory Mosher, Peter Brook, Deborah Warner.

Thomas Pynchon
New Order

Are the two that spring immediately to mind

john waters
joan didion

right now I am a huge stan of Dashiell Hammett

joan didion
arthur russell
philip roth

I...don't know? I think other people would have to tell me because they're always bored by hearing it from me.

*Poison
*Alice Cooper
*Transformers
*James Kochalka

All in terms of the money spending aspect.

d.f.w.
david lynch
courtney love

> I think other people would have to tell me because they're always bored by hearing it from me.

This sounds lke a useful definition, and keeping it in mind:

The Wire
Jim Woodring
Grant Morrison
Thomas Pynchon
Lynda Barry
Peanuts
King of the Hill up to season 7 or so

NY Mets
Russell Feingold
Preston Sturges
Kiki & Herb (RIP)

Shirley Collins
Josephine Foster
La Lupe

also: bars with way too many beers on tap

how could I forget

Judith Light
Julie Andrews

Pulp and the Cure and, according to a conversation I found myself having, an old boss who's apparently being taken to court by loads of creditors...

Joan Didion, Souled American

i am also a woody allen and courtney love stan. i am like this about 2 million people, though; it would take me forever to think of them all. peyton manning, obvs.

faulkner--though i know he has his faults

Tove Jansson

Brian Bendis, though it pains me to admit it.

Mario Vargas Llosa.
Ricardo Villalobos.
Henrik Larsson.

what is this word "stan"?

xpost. plus swiftly becoming a Roberto Bolaño stan.

what is this word "stan"?

― caek, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:00 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

short for "stanley"

Arsene Wenger.

Robyn Hitchcock
Eddie Campbell
Thomas Pynchon

nrq otm

will stan for jd on occasion myself tho

Alfred Hitchcock
The Mekons

Sleepytime Gorilla Museum
Nabakov
DFW
McSweeneys
Jonathan Lethem
Foetus

Ernest Hemingway
Jay-Z
Raymond Chandler
Buddha
Jonathan Lethem
Alain Badiou

ha xp!

you have good taste in stanning obv

I guess for me it would be Prince:

* I own 13 albums by him (and a couple by his side projects), and I'm planning to get all of them eventually.

* I've searched and downloaded all of the B-sides and all of the 12" versions of his singles as 320kbps or FLAC files, plus a 300+ remixes, unreleased tunes and songs he wrote for other artists.

* I've read three different biographies of him.

jim woodring (hi-5 oilyrags)
ray caesar
billy corgan
raymond carver
douglas coupland
bret easton ellis
blaine fontana
faith no more

oh yeah also matthew barney for me

damn hoos.

alain badiou is a pseudo-xtian creep, the last barrel-scraping from 1968TM.

oh yeah,

Gilbert Hernandez

post your list, fool

: )

were any of those biographies worth reading, tuomas?

israel ><
salinger
greg dulli

and am i a prince stan if i think his last album sucked, but i'm still interested in what he does and think he still has the potential for greatness?

yeah, i think so. i don't like anything woody allen's done in years. i think i'm defining this as "someone who when other people criticize them, you freak out and defend annoyingly and at great length."

andrew wk

I keep mis-reading this thread title as "what are you a stain of?"

^^^ hahaha, nice

Courtney Love
The Wire
Isabel Marant
Hillary Clinton
the New England Patriots <3 <3 <3

kind of a ridiculous list, I know. Oh hey wait, I'm not the only one for Court.. :) I love Gilles Deleuze so maybe I know some embarrassingly minute trivia, but it doesn't seem to make up for the fact that it's incredibly hard for me to understand what he's saying about 75% of the time.

I just realized that I am a Wicker Man stan too.

(xpost) It was a question that I was often asked in my youth...

Serious answer (since the thread is moving beyond bands into other areas): early 80's home computers. Yes, what was once the future is now ancient history. I kind of wish this knowledge had some everyday use in the current IT industry, but it doesn't. Does anyone else find that the amount of knowledge they have on their "stan" subject is inversely proportional to the amount of practical use that knowledge is?

can't think of ""someone who when other people criticize them, you freak out and defend annoyingly and at great length"" : /

:-(

i'm thinking this kinda fades with age maybe, stanism is a young person's game

can't think of ""someone who when other people criticize them, you freak out and defend annoyingly and at great length"" : /

― cozwn, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:30 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^ otm. im not a anyone stan.

oh, maybe judd apatow.

I just realized that I am a Wicker Man stan too.

― shiitake maki (La Lechera), Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wicker stan!!

can you stan for yourself?

wd that make you lj?

Justin Timberlake
Anton Yelchin
Cassie
Richard Kelly
David Lynch
Michael Cera
Weeds
American Idol
90210

I tried to be a stan for Sting, but he said "don't stan so close to me"...

oh also Sega Dreamcast!

were any of those biographies worth reading, tuomas?

The best one I've read is Prince by Dave Hill, which takes a rather critical look on Prince's career, though still written by someone who appreciates his music, so it's not slander or anything. There's also a lot of information on the Minneapolis music scene Prince came from, and some interesting analysis of the racial politics in American popular music. The book came out in 1989 though, so it's not useful if you want to read about his full career.

Slave to the Rhythm by Liz Jones is also a good read if you're more interested in Prince's private life, though the music analysis isn't as good as in Hill's book. I think it is one of the few Prince books where Prince himself (among others) is actually interviewed, though it's not uncritical of him either. Dancemusicsexromance by Per Nilsen is about the first 10 years of Prince's career, and it's almost exclusively about his music only. There's a lot of trivia about recording dates and stuff, and individual analysis of almost everything he recorded between 1978 and 1988, but otherwise it's a bland read. More like a collection of record reviews than a good overall look on his music and career.

Oh, and I just noticed the local library carries a pretty recent book about him written in 2004, so I guess I'm gonna read my fourth Prince biography.

my last real crushy fandom was probably robyn

before that, friedrich kittler

All my pedestals have crumbled. Oh, hell, except maybe Muhammad Ali.

Oh, and I just noticed the local library carries a pretty recent book about him written in 2004, so I guess I'm gonna read my fourth Prince biography.

ha, is it matos' book? because that is excellent.

Unfortunately the Helsinki public library doesn't have Matos' book. It's a pity, I'd love to read it. Isn't it about Sign O' the Times only?

Tove Jansson

― thunda lightning (clotpoll), Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

it boggles my mind that tove jansson would ever need defending from anything, but if so put me down for stan-hood.

it's about sign o' the times but it brings in a lot of prince history and previous work.

Ah. A pity it isn't available at the library, and I don't really have the cash to order it from overseas.

The Black Panthers

also

alain badiou is a pseudo-xtian creep, the last barrel-scraping from 1968TM.

― special guest stars mark bronson, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:01 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

u rite :)

ocd, aspie-style=serial stanning, no?

Yoko Ono
Modest Mouse
LOST

...can you be a TV show's stan? 'Cause I think I am. See also: the Big Lebowski. I defend it constantly (aka I hang around the wrong people)

Richard Linklater up to and including Before Sunset
Tim O'Brien

dan selzer reminds me that I am a Xaime Hernandez stan (or at least more than a Beto stan)

nas
mo yan
timothy brook

it boggles my mind that tove jansson would ever need defending from anything, but if so put me down for stan-hood.

― tipsy mothra, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:01 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah, i don't end up defending her, more acquiring everything available and trying to foist her on everyone I know.

Also the Mekons.

john waters
bonnie hunt
joe walsh

hey dylannn, can u recommend me some mo yan? where shld i start

Ray Lewis
Black Sabbath
The red-haired lunchtime anchor on CNN

See also: the Big Lebowski. I defend it constantly (aka I hang around the wrong people)

that's odd to me, as i've always seen that movie as quite the unifier. do you hang with old people

Grateful Dead
Pier Paolo Pasolini
Tom DiCillo, maybe?

cozwn and nrq, standom is one of the things that makes life worth living fyi

LOST

Yeah I defend this all the time when my wife gets started about how they killed the best characters.

Buffy

^^^

cozwn and nrq, standom is one of the things that makes life worth living fyi

― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:01 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i have been a stan, but now im not.

i guess im a stan for raymond durgnat, but y'all would have to google that so it's not like i have to defend him ever.

horseshoe i want u to know that this thread was also partially inspired by that "high schoolers favorite books" thread or whatever where u came in swinging ready to defend your favorite books to the death--i admire that very much

Durgnat's socio-political approach - strongly supportive of the working classes and, almost as a direct result of this, American popular culture, and dismissive of Left-wing intellectuals who he accused of actually being petit-bourgeois conservatives in disguise, and dismissive of overt politicisation of film criticism, refusing to bring his own Left-wing views overtly into his writings on film - can best be described as "radical populist".

ha ha this doesnt remind me of anyone on ilx at all.......

haha googled raymond durgnat, considering becoming a raymond durngnat stan

xpost aw! i maybe do this a little too much, but whatevs

nah theres something i like about loving writers/artists/actors so much that theyre like family, and you feel like youre the only one allowed to criticize them

i srsly think one of the things that influenced me being this way about things/people i like is that scene in manhattan where diane keaton and that awful dude are making fun of, like, f scott fitzgerald and other awesome people and woody allen's character is like, "yeah and how about mozart and shakespeare? all of those people you just named are great." it's so true!

I guess I'm an f scott fitzgerald stan if I'm a stan at all

I'll rep before I'll stan, if someone doesn't like something I love then total whatevs

im a stan for like half the things in the world

right?

haha i think i mostly agreed with diane keaton's list in that movie

then you are my sworn enemy

sporting a commemorative username here ppl

i like this thread but i don't like the idea that attaching myself to something as family implies that i'm going to lock my girlfriend in my trunk

i dont know that i would really kill my girlfriend over my borges standom but im not going to make any promises at this point

me not being able to fathom why anyone would be put in a situation where they have to defend borges probably means I am a huge borg stan

a key sign of standom is complete and total shock that anyone could dislike the object of your standom

hmmmm...better throw Jack Kirby on the pile, then.

i like all these shits... i mean im totally with you on borges max, i even tracked down his house in BsAs when i was there... but for some reason i cant commit myself to any real stanistans. maybe i'm too fickle, tastes change too much or something?

lol im watching a pbs show right now made by charlie chaplin stans

everyone on this thread is an ilx stan

max since you are the Borges stan, I have only read Historia universal de a infamia and thought it was a'ight, what should I read that is awesome?

lol, dont ask stans what to read, because we will say, "all of it"

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/c0/c2823.jpg

lol xp

rakim

damn you, stans.

mikhail bulgakov
saint etienne
royal trux
jean-pierre melville
wong kar-wai
oblivians-related stuff

tbf the first part of the collected fictions is not his best stuff

> jean-pierre melville

Nice one, and this means you are the person I was probably thinking about when posting on the greatness of "Big Deal on Madonna Street" this morning. Or last night. Or whatever.

i like the early stuff and his evolution is pretty amazing to behold too xp

agree on the evolution part but the gangs of new york and chinese pirate kite flying princess saving the day shit is pretty zzzzzzzz

big royal trux and steely dan stan 2

i actually was an eminem stan. but it faded. (still will stan for the first 3 records, but i guess conditional stanning isn't stanning at all.)

monteverdi, mahler, mozart, donne, dryden, pope, joyce, steely dan

oh, i know: charles burchfield

re: jlb the collected fictions book is not a very good translation imo. i got more out of the di giovanni translations which are pretty easy to find in smaller collections like labyrinths, fictions/ficciones, etc.

oh shit Miles Davis obviously

like when i was 18 i did a miles davis week on my blog where i covered dude's entire career

Mingus
Threadgill

re: jlb the collected fictions book is not a very good translation imo. i got more out of the di giovanni translations which are pretty easy to find in smaller collections like labyrinths, fictions/ficciones, etc.

― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:34 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^ im a stan of this sentiment

i like the translation in the collected fictions

sentimental stan

o yeah i would say mingus and miles davis, also funkadelic, fleetwood mac - i have spent a good deal of time defending these to a number of people i know whose tastes dont move past 1969.

http://tf.org/images/covers/tf.org-Big-Stan-free-2008-tf.org-Big-Stan-free-2008.jpg

Big Stan is a comedy film directed by and starring Rob Schneider. Although released in some overseas markets during the fall of 2008, it is slated for U.S. release in early 2009. On the radio show Loveline, Schneider stated that this film will be an "anti-man raping" film — referring to prison rape.

So it's not about raping anti-men? Because I was confused.

woody allen very much seconded. Also Orson Welles, but I don't feel like there's anything unreasonable about being endlessly fascinated by him.

Also, Brian Eno.

Probably Nick Cave.

I am a stan of myself - I mean I try to defend myself about little grievances that would normally make me depressed. I apologized out of the blue to some girl I found on the internet (on accident though) for crashing her party (etc..) a few years back. she replied that I was an asshole. I wrote back that I am sorry for my past self and 'good luck on your career'. after she called me an asshole I felt pretty bad. but defending myself made me feel better. and hearing a story about a friend who would fake make out with chicks as part of his stage antics made me feel better to.

Jack Kerouac

and Off-kilter music.

jim woodring (hi-5 oilyrags)
...
― just1n3, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:57 PM (Yesterday)

I want to join in this hi-5

House M.D.
The Mighty Boosh
Eddie Izzard

black licorice
vegetarianism

Pulp
Morrissey
Luna

Bret Easton Ellis
Nabakov

Before Sunrise and Before Sunset
Ethan Hawke in general

Alice in Wonderland
The Little Prince

p-funk
adam smith
jeremy bentham

Oh! I know my real, ultimate answer: David Byrne. (It's hard to think of things at first.) Fits the definition as I understand it perfectly -- he's very good, but not as great as I often think he it, and not as clever as he often thinks he is. But god help me, I love everything he does.

Man, I love me most all the TH there is, but some of those solo albums are tough going. Like the one with Snoopy on the cover sitting on a celestial throne.

Mariah Carey, Kate Bush, the Deal sisters, Kristin Hersh

Like the one with Snoopy on the cover sitting on a celestial throne

That's "Uh-Oh." You know, like, uh-oh, god turns out to be a puppy. See, not as clever as he thinks. I don't mind the album at all, though.

yeah, I got the god/dog thing. It's been years since I heard it - maybe I'd like it better now.

It's very late-Heads, actually.

I'm not sure I'm like this with anyone! I'm a little surprised to realize this.

- Doctor Who
- Nintendo
- Prince

do i even need to mention what i'm a stan about?

Humor us.

what a great thread. i'd say i'm a stan of punch-drunk love, of montreal, and pizza

ctrl+f pizza

!?!?

charles schulz
orson welles
walter karp
j.d. salinger
hannah arendt

Of Montreal, or of Of Montreal?

You know what? Forget I asked.

hahaha

aliens
cats
rock and/or roll

lol xxp

TACOS

I don't think it counts if it's not someone you could send an insane obsessive letter to. (Whether or not they are alive to read it.) Rock doesn't really work, nor roll. Certainly not tacos. I mean, I'd stalk Chess records if I could, but not even I have that much imaginative psychosis.

Otherwise it's just a list of "things I like," amirite?

i write letters to cats all the time

k

Well, there's my new display name.

xD

lolz.

Tacos are not here, and I have not seen them in a while. I worry that tacos are lonely. They're so old-school, though -- no IM, no email. I should write. It's the same way with my grandmother.

I totally want to post a letter with just "Tacos" as a destination address now.

there are things i am hyper defensive of that i don't necessarily lurv

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/donald_fagen_defends_steely_dan_to

lol!

correspondence

that is to say i am a stan of handwritten communication

Dear letter,

AAAAAAAAA!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2179/1719373904_2110f86758.jpg?v=0

like i said, i like this thread, and i think i understand why "stan" is being used to describe the answers - it's a kind of sheepish acknowledgement of one's own total SUNKNESS re: the ish at hand; HOWEVER i'm not keen on the concomitant acceptance this word makes inevitable that any kind of overweening admiration is somehow lame, pathetic, almost pathological (it's a little like saying "what shit do you really LOVE - no homo"). maybe you can't have one without the other

No I'm sure that you can have slavish, slathering dedication to an artist with no self-awareness at all.

Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

But I do know what you mean. That's why I revised my answer... Orson Welles is too good for disclaimers, but David Byrne? Yeah, ok, my level of enthusiasm might be out of sync with reality sometimes.

nonsentient stans:
- gatorade
- ipods
- thai food
- newspaper strip comics prior to 1960
- pearl button snap cowboy shirts

Smartfood cheddar popcorn
Buster Keaton

i watched a show last nite on slapstick movies and someone called buster keaton mystical

Ok so it's just a list of things we like.

Sweaters, then. I like sweaters.

And fucking.

Dear fucking,

...

totally loling at this shit. you guys are great

I thought it wasn't things we like, it's things we like irrationally and defend beyond a reasonable point?

i think its more things you love and know abt too much - the defending flows naturally out of that

being a stan is a hard thing to describe, i suppose its possible to be a french fries stan or whatever but its unfair to be like "omg i love french fries" and call yourself a stan--a true french fry stan goes to belgium every couple years and keeps up w/ advancing french fry technology and knows what flavors are in the oil at mcdonalds and stuff

also a big thing about being a stan imo is maintaining a high and unusual level of interest in periods when the rest of the public has lost interest. hamburgers have always been a staple of american cuisine and have never really fallen out of favor, therefore im not sure that you can really "stan" for hamburgers

i was kind of ignoring the "knows a lot about x" part of the definition. by that definition, i am less of a stan of anything, really.

i think for me, being a stan of something is like, when someone says or implies something negative about that thing, it just makes you unreasonably irritated and you cant really talk in complete sentences.

throw derek jeter in there

are we all stans of jaymc's xls?

how would that work, exactly?

haha i am kind of a jeter/mattingly stan

i totally f'd that up :/

David Foster Wallace
academia / higher education
Grace Paley
Max Tundra
horseshoe
Bill Cosby
personally preferring PC use to Mac use
the idea that Anna Faris is brilliant

throw derek jeter in there

more accurate than a Jeter throw

nabisco i cant believe you left off 'Girlfriends'

i am tracee ellis ross's number 1 stan.

i sort of think this thread would be more interesting if we had to identify what other people are stans of, since a lot of the time if you spend a lot of time, say, posting on the same message board as someone you end up pushing their buttons enough to figure out what they are obsessed with and willing to defend to the death

derek jeter is the most disgusting savage in all the world imo and he gave jessica alba herpes

http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2007/08/herpestree.jpg

I left off a lot of things, but my love of Girlfriends probably doesn't extend to full-on standom, I don't think?

This is hard for me to answer, because I think of a stan as being the type of person who'd overhear a conversation about a favorite topic and be gritting his/her teeth and wanting to jump in and go "you don't UNDERSTAND" and unleash a detailed hour-long lecture on the fine points of the topic and how wonderful it is . . .

. . . and as you may have guessed one of the less appealing things about my personality is that I feel that way about LOTS of stuff, including things I don't even really care about

i was gonna say

yeah, i mean that's a much more honest description of me than stan for 2 million things.

^^^natalie merchant stan (xps)

I think you're just much more contrary than you give yourself credit for, nabisco.

^

ok fuck you guys jeter is a saint! and he's not knoblauch ffs

http://uk.geocities.com/laurel_hardy_tribute/Stan_Laurel.jpg

whoa double jeter herpes thats rough jt sry bro

alice munro
stacey dash
john goodman
pulp
team america
fellini
newfoundland
the song runaround sue
a burrito shop
geography
america's funniest home videos
derrida
fancy lobbies
cod tongues
nabokov

^^will stan for to varying degrees

i'm probably gonna wind up being a nabokov stan but i've only read two books so i don't feel qualified yet

I don't think I'm that contrary, but yes, I am totally a 10,000 Maniacs stan.

The Simpsons
Futurama
Sylvia Plath
Cocteau Twins
Bablyon 5
They Might be Giants

ugh I'm such an indienerd :/

I'm not aspie about any of these though, tho Futurama comes close if only by osmosis.

Someone needs to stan on someone named Stan, for some next level metastanning.

I guess seeing a band 30-40x puts you on the bandstan, so Yo La Tengo

I'm sure the world has plenty of Stan Lee stans, but I'll take Stan Zbornak from Golden Girls, if that helps.

Oh, I would like to add Reason software to my list.

xp - that's what I was thinking, N!

Actually, since I'm already stanning on Jack Kirby, I seem like a logical candidate.

Although not a Stan per se as I don't defend her but I do know way too much about Kate Moss. I confess: I've read two bios on her. Sad huh? I think in a sense it shows my stanishness when it comes to pop culture. I defend pop culture to an insane degree. :-(

I also am a stan of dEUS. But less so than in the past. I know every story behind their songs. Up to the last record which I think stinks.

if you can recognize that you're stanning for something you no longer are a stan for them?

Only if you can help yourself from stanning them / it in the future, I'd say; if you recognise it, but can't help yourself anyway, you're still a stan.

I think the only thing I could be considered to be a stan of is Embrace, I guess. I don't think I care / know enough about anything else to stan it. I'm too faddish.

xpost until someone points it out, i guess?

The Beatles
The Simpsons
Stephen King
the 1997 Cleveland Indians

oh I forgot one - Beavis and Butt-head.

Oh god, I know another one: Madonna. *sadface* But not so much these days.

Oh, and Star Wars, prequels, expanded universe and all.

yeah, totally Madonna.

omg i thought of one
neil young

Yes
Jacques Lacan/Sigmund Freud/Slavoj Zizek
Alejandro Jodorowsky
Boredoms
H.P. Lovecraft

Put me down for JL Borges as well.

jesus how can you be a stan of shit that makes you sound smarter than you actually are?!

i mean how often do you get in a conversation with some girl at a store or hell even on campus where you're like 'omg i know you hate jacques lacan but i swear i love him!!!'

'i know freud is like wtf but let me tell you something'

it's called "graduate school" dude

yeah so people aren't so into foucault but i feel him you know? of his time

how often in "graduate school" do you meet people who seriously challenge you about lacan/freud/zizek (a hillaaarious stretch of everything btw) so you have to stan lacan/freud/zizek (again LOL).

lacan/zizek/foucault is a tool, but tbh a lot of ign'ant humanities postgrads still rep for him; im surprised you'd need to leap to his defence.

Actually, I would say Lacan would be the epitome of academic stanservice -- loveable in a lot of ways but quite easily attackable, hence need for overdefensiveness.

they might say: 'the notion of the episteme doesn't stand up to scrutiny' or 'this guy is a creepy totalitarian' or 'lol no-one takes lacan seriously in his field so why is this even a thing with you crazy english grads?'

i mean jodorowski i can understand, because i hate him.

but the boredoms, that's critical acclaim in the places that matter to you the most. how do you 'stan' the boredoms when no one else cares as much as you do? by 'you' i mean 'i.'

x-post ok fair enough i've never had a conversation about jacques lacan with a person and from the sound of it that would drive me crazy.

i would hit freud/lacan/zizek

i've never had a conversation about jacques lacan with a person and from the sound of it that would drive me crazy

there is literally no point in having this conversation. you may as well debate a scientologist because it is a completely closed system. the answer will always come out the same when the lacan script is run.

10 PRINT "I AM JACQUES LACAN I LIKE FARTING AND ACTING CRAZY"
20 GOTO 10

but seriously these people are awesome to read and think about but not take literally and debate and stan???

Lacan def. has less fans/more critics in the humanities than, say, Derrida or Deleuze. There's definitely a weird cult-like thing that goes on with a lot of his followers and that can tend to make a stan of anyone who thinks he's worthwhile reading.

As for Boredoms, "critical acclaim" means nothing if you grew up in the suburbs and given a hard time for liking weirdo screamy drum music.

wow, then where is lacan liked? i thought it was mainly humanities departments.

i hear you on the boredoms, i'm from the same suburbs, but i guess it's not something that i feel like i have to defend. like they're one of my favorite bands ever, they're amazing, but i do not feel the need to educate unless others are interested. i'm reading a low-to-high thing into 'stan' that probably shouldn't be there.

drag city trio of:
will oldham
david berman
bill callahan

fuck, add royal trux to that

ingmar bergman
brian de palma
gus van sant

baltimore sports teams

oh yah that reminds me:
jim o'rourke

lol @ matt p going "ive never heard anyone criticize lacan or zizek" and enrique popping in with "lacan zizek are tools"

Well yeah, he's liked by some in humanities departments, but not universally by a long shot, due to the whole supposed sexist occult crypto-totalitarianism thing. But a lot of that has more to do with the way he's treated (creepily cult-like authority figure/possessor of some sort of psychoanlaytic gnosis) than anything else.

BTW, it's not like I shove Boredoms down people's throats or anything, but if I'm in the car with a friend and I'm playing Super AE r something, I def. have to defend it. Actually, even some of my more open-minded indie/alt-liking friends get weirded out by Boredoms.

ok so i got all up in arms on a 'stan' thread ffs

nah homie i didnt mean u were stanning for them, tho good on you for doing son, i meant it was a 'speak of the devil situation'

I don't get the whole "stan" thing....isn't everyone fair game? I'd defend the defenseless, but that's about it.

will oldham
bicycles and how we ought to take them more seriously
doing stuff outside
the wire

also farting, being crazy

internet

well yeah, xp

paul muldoon

i think i'm becoming a stan of the knife

i have discovered that i am a david fincher stan.

but even then im not crazy about alien3 and seven.

http://blog.pennlive.com/tonyrhodin/2007/11/billyjoal1127.jpg

that's gotta be a tough job

just have to keep keepin' the faith.

that's like being a james michener or martin brest stan

im a brest stan

sorry--breast

law & order

im a brest stan

― max, Monday, February 2, 2009 8:06 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sorry--breast

― max, Monday, February 2, 2009 8:06 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/290/294016.jpg

stan stan

http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0073486/56410.jpg is a stan of http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Stan%20Laurel.jpg

movie directors im a stan of:

depalma
miike
cronenberg

& many others...

writers mentioned on 'worst writers ever' thread i am holding back from defending:

pk dick
coetzee ("sorry but its true" launching this one from contrary to CHALLOPS territory)
king
henry james
lovecraft
eggers
rushdie
pynchon
DERRIDA <-- really had to hold myself back for this one
both amises
jk rowling (cant believe i actually was about to wade in to defend her, but--the heart, not the mind, is the organ of standom)
SAUNDERS ("shocking"? what? also describing the most recent nyer story as "smug"--did you READ it?)
foster wallace

lol did not read that thread - people are just listing whoever

haha i contributed "a baby" and then noodle vague called me out for keepin it negative

haha max! <3 <3 <3

glad i am not reading that thread

hopefully next year this time cpsc 223

to keep my list updated here r some other people i am stans of:

• donald barthelme
• italo calvino
• umberto eco

I'll need to give this some deep thought. There's a few but I'm not sure which are passing fancies and which are genuine standoms.

Good taste Max. I'm with you on the first two and RS loves Eco.

r.i.p.

I'm gonna echo the Stanning of Woody Allen, but older stuff only. I think he's lost his ear for dialogue to such an extent that his newer stuff is painful to watch (Vicky Christina's sole saving grace is Penélope Cruz) but if someone gets caught up in the Soon-Yi creepiness or actually thinks he's just not funny I have to defend the Woodster. Like, I'm annoyed with that line in Mos Def's Mr. Nigga (off Black on Both Sides which, ironically, I'm a stan for) where Mos accuses him of MOLESTING and marrying his stepdaughter and compares it with Michael Jackson's treatment in the media. The whole issue IS quite problematic, but if you don't like Annie Hall I'm not sure you have a soul.
I'll also stan for:
*The Beatles (although I kind of think everyone who says they weren't great is just being contrarian/reacting to Greatest Band Ever title), but especially the White Album. Should have been one disc?! Fightin words.
*The Office (US version)
*Nas - Illmatic
*Arrested Development
*Juvenile comedies like Dumb and Dumber, Half Baked and the work of Judd Apatow
*Daft Punk
*Don Quijote
*Pedro Almodóvar films

a few things

Fugazi
Douglas Adams
The Upper Peninsula of Michigan

I'm having a hard time coming up with people (other than, uh, Herge) that I've felt this way about over a long period of time. It seems like when I stay obsessed with a particular artist, I either drift toward magnifying their flaws or argument about them altogether.

Wait, there are people who don't like Don Quixote and Illmatic?

max, maybe this was mentioned up thread, but don't you think true stan-dom requires standing up for someone/thing partially discredited or passe? like i know calvino and eco and the like have some detractors but generally they are recognized lit heroes. i feel that being a stan should require a risk of looking foolish or being in bad taste. like norman rockwell or leon uris or stanley kramer somebody like that.

Charles S. Peirce
Terrence Malick
Seinfeld

Wait, there are people who don't like Don Quixote and Illmatic?

Yeah as I was writing my list I realized that much of it was things that nobody really disparages. But I take being a stan to mean that I consider them the greatest thing ever, like those 2 specifically I think are like better writing than Shakespeare

Wait, there are people who don't like Don Quixote and Illmatic?

― i fuck mathematics, Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:17 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i thought the famous thing about don quixote was that it is terribly written.

martin amis: "While clearly an impregnable masterpiece, Don Quixote suffers from one fairly serious flaw – that of outright unreadability."

I finally discovered something I'd stan for, SFIV : ///////////////////

I think other people would have to tell me because they're always bored by hearing it from me.

In which case it would have to be the current British government.

Also Leicester.

i like how some of you guys are saying you're a stan of something which is totally classic stuff

oh hello i am a stan of velvet underground.

xp

And the present (as opposed to The Past).

i thought the famous thing about don quixote was that it is terribly written.

martin amis: "While clearly an impregnable masterpiece, Don Quixote suffers from one fairly serious flaw – that of outright unreadability."

quixote suffers from bad/outdated translations more than most books -- the burton raffel version i have is great, but i can't imagine making it through any of the other versions i've glanced through. it's also a very fun book to read (way more fun than any martin amis book i've ever tried, for one).

never read all that much of it but when i leafed through it one day in my old uni library, in spanish, it seemed decently written, if somewhat archaic, with some pretty funny bits.

i have a beautiful old four-volume copy of this that i am ashamed to say i've never made it all the way through :o

j.d. your burton raffel suggestion is very welcome

of course m.amis is the expert on unreadability

his opinion on don quixote is pure bollocks

the only "problem" with the book is all the diversionary tales, if that's not your thing, and i can see why that would be.

My biggest Stans:
Stereolab - including all bands loosely related like Sea and Cake, Tortoise, High Llamas, Mondade, Immitation Electric Piano, etc.
Rush
Frank Zappa
David Lynch

Lesser-stans:
James Joyce - used to be full-fledged-stan back in High School
NE Pats - can't quote stats and don't have strong knowledge of pre-Drew Bledsoe era
Tove Jansson - was reppin' some Moomins to my in-laws just last night
Love and Rockets comics - both Gilbert and Jaime
Miles Davis - mainly electric period

There are probably many others that I could add to the list, but these are my primary obsessions that I will defend forever.

i am a burgeoning lukas moodysson stan (tho id be surprised if he ever comes up in convo)

a better one might be that i think im a george clooney stan

Battlestar Galactistan

i forgot charles bukowski in my earlier list

william nuschler clark jr

pinball

mars matrix

rita tushingham
dh lawrence
abraham lincoln
charles dickens
greil marcus
herman melville
peter sellers

i'm probably like this for "seinfeld," too.

It turns out I'm a stan of Jackie Wilson!

JRPGs, fantasy novels

Battlestar Galactistan based on horsehoe's definition: "someone who when other people criticize them, you freak out and defend annoyingly and at great length." And now I can't post grumpy screeds against the haterz in the BSG thread because even though they probably knew I was a BSG stan, now they know that I know and they'll never take me seriously again.

Having thought about it some more, I'll also add:

Tina Fey
The Shining

max, maybe this was mentioned up thread, but don't you think true stan-dom requires standing up for someone/thing partially discredited or passe? like i know calvino and eco and the like have some detractors but generally they are recognized lit heroes. i feel that being a stan should require a risk of looking foolish or being in bad taste. like norman rockwell or leon uris or stanley kramer somebody like that.

― velko, Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:37 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah i think this is a helpful criterion. but its all contextual anyway--i will stan for calvino at a anti-postmodernist club meeting but in the larger sphere where hes generally accepted as a top-notch writer i guess im more just a "fan"

mashed potatoes

I read calvino's little oulipo essays about how he came up with some stories but they were boring as fuck

he should have just said "I thought of some crazy shit and it got on the page"

B.S. Johnson
The Telescopes

And James Joyce, yeah. Or at least Ulysses and Finnegans Wake.

If we're including the criterion of at least partially discredited, then I still think Joyce counts as I totally stan for him against the charge of literary decadence. I'm such a Johnson stan I got really pissed off reading the mostly-positive Coe biography as it wasn't stating on every page how much he is the best writer in the world ever.

stanimal collective

Murakami
modernist houses
flickr
Betjeman
Hal Hartley
caravans

Scott Walker
Libraries

Kanye, inc. 808s, crazy fashion choices

http://www.vibe.com/vibeverses/

martin amis

alasdair roberts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46Aue8R_Fc&feature=related
if you listen to this in the dark and it doesn't scare you, even a little bit, you are not my people

this should be "whom are you a stan of"

or maybe "of whom are you a stan"

technically, yes
(that one)

i am not generally in favor of the dont-end-sentences-with-prepositions rule but i am generally in favor of making a distinction between who and whom

rolling stan '11

sometimes I purposely don't use whom cause I don't want to seem like a dick

its wel on its way to being antiquated for sue

grammar rules i stan for

who/whom
less/fewer

i dont know if this counts but i stan for correct use of the phrase "begging the question"

for whom the stan posts

'spare a question kind sir'

least favorite thread title grammar mistake: 'people that YELP are scumbags.'

haha i annoy my friends with less/fewer too

people who get all upset re grammar are m/l loudly advertising their middling intellect to the world, they dont seem to get that, maybe cause theyre not that smart idk

i am a grammar teacher, and i like to explain the situation as a fluid one, but one they have to live in for a while longer.

ultimately, its because who and whom are different words, and the other thing is a style rule made up by -- iirc -- strunk and white.
who is subjective relative pronoun: The teacher who stole my boyfriend left through that door. OR The teacher, who stole my boyfriend, left through that door. (restrictive clause, nonrestrictive clause)

whom on the other hand is an objective pronoun

For whom is that package? (following a preposition as obj of the prep: Sally had a long relationship with Jeff, with whom she shared a house and three children.

whom -- relative pronoun in the object position
who -- subjective position

anyway can we talk about the excellence of alasdair roberts?
please?

one of my friends who lives in my building was telling me how a few days ago he started jacking off to porn for the first time in like a year and then he heard a voice from outside his window shout "we can see everything chief" and he stopped and got really sad, but that story aside I stan for the word chief

i still use thee/thou

people who get all upset re grammar are m/l loudly advertising their middling intellect to the world, they dont seem to get that, maybe cause theyre not that smart idk

there are also people who think that there really is some higher level of rightness w/ proper grammar, like it's almost a moral thing

yeah and none of them ever seem interested in studying linguistics which is sort of strange

idk its like some desperate attempt to signify intelligence

David Lynch
Guns N' Roses/Axl Rose
Bobby Chacon (professional boxer)
Roger Federer

Michelle Marsh
Sophie Howard
Lucy Pinder
Keeley Hazel
Marc Loi

― '92 ron fan (gnarly sceptre), Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:07 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

underrated post here

or maybe "of whom are you a stan"

you are correct max!

<3 grammar nazis. except in cases when the correct grammar sounds ugly, in which case i think it is fine to get it wrong. also i hate it when you ask how someone's doing and they respond "i'm well." i've only begun to notice it in the past few years. it sounds funny to me. contrived.

there are no rules, im sorry you had to find out this way

like it's almost a moral thing

i went to catholic school. to the nuns, i think it was.

guys we will all be happier when we realize ice cr?m is smarter than all of us, plz let's work on this in the coming days

anyway i had an long thought this morning abt like what it means to stan for things and basically i think im done w/it, its contrived and confused to stan and doesnt really represent any sort of honest approach to appreciation

guess we know with whom hoos has a beef

i thought the preferred phraseology was 'a hoos'

with whom a hoos has beef

lol, sounds better, tru

guys we will all be happier when we realize ice cr?m is smarter than all of us, plz let's work on this in the coming days

― Godspeed HOOS! Black Steendriver (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:52 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well if you think there are rules to grammar that people need you to point out to then im prob smarter than you, thats just a general pattern ive noticed, although im totally willing to allow that smart people could indulge in stupid shit like this due having back childhoods or w/e

dude

what im just sayin

anyway can we talk about the excellence of alasdair roberts?
please?

you've just inspired me to give No Earthly Man a 6am play! Should work well as the sun starts to rise.

i mean grammer pedants can sit there all day like actually - yet im not allowed to call them stupid - the world is unfair!

with whom a hoos beefs

i don't actually care except when i have to copy edit stuff at work.. ok and when people send me emails at work that are so grammatically messed up, i can't understand what they are saying and i wonder how they even have a job.

<3 grammar nazis btw, if I could internalise it all well enough to be a grammar robot I would. Instead I settle for being Mr Free and Easy. Even though I'm not entirely down with the not-ending-sentences-with-a-preposition rule, I do like forcing its application when the resulting structure is tortured beyond belief.

(that's not geeky at all.)

grammar pedants irl have a certain adorable fustiness but on the internets it's just a miserable ploy

adorable fustiness maybe if they're like, a 60 year old english teacher. but most people I know who do it irl are just dicks.

well if you think there are rules to grammar that people need you to point out to then im prob smarter than you, thats just a general pattern ive noticed, although im totally willing to allow that smart people could indulge in stupid shit like this due having back childhoods or w/e

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

wait u mean the rulez of language don't MEEN ANYTHING and pointing them out is just 1-upping yrself and sggstv of intellectual insecurity oh shi--like of course that's the case man and a person who runs around correcting people's essentially insubstantial misunderstandingz has some growing up to oh hmm hmm

I feel like the hoos/cr?m beef has serious potential

i don't think ilx can survive such a showdown

in all seriousness i respect people understanding and even taking great delight the conventions of grammar - all those relative pronoun and whatnot are p amazing on some level - its the combination of not really having any perspective on where that fits with ~the miracle of language~ and feeling the need to correct people that comes off as oddly and pervasively clueless

lol is hoos still mad cause i didnt like that kind of lame guy from youtube

and for the record as to the 'rulez of language' my position is there are none that require enforcing

Well I was gonna list another bunch of stannin's but I dont want to interrupt this erudite discussion :|

what language has the most grammar correcting people

latin

it has to be french doesnt it, not that i speak french but ive heard they are really into that sort of thing

I want to say french but ime it's rarely 'grammar correcting' and more 'people looking down on other people silently'

the french have a whole academie devoted to grammar correcting

Yeah latin I would reckon. Or english tbqh

ime people from countries with a lot of individual dialects or languages (my experience is w/ india) get into huge arguments over how to say the stupidest shit, esp when they all speak the same multiple languages

seems like spanish speakers are always claiming their country speaks 'the best spanish' w/e that means

so many people dumber than ice cr?m...

there have to be billions of them *marvels @ world*

afaik the academie spends way more energy fighting loan words than on grammar issues...cause french people are always gonna use 'french grammar', it's not like you can borrow english grammar.

xp

l'académie française
institution for protecting the language dating all the way back to the 17th century. no english words please!

you can't borrow english grammar i suppose, but arabic, or from african languages, or verlan.. the way some young people talk is almost incomprehensible

no one tell them abt

http://savageminds.org/wp-content/image-upload/indoeuropean-language-family-tree.jpg

verlan is very french in origin!

well yeah it's french slang. l'envers, le verlan

the academie francaise is so weird and unique though - to have an official state institution charged with the national language, and how it's functioned all this time.. i haven't thought about this stuff in years.. wow.. memory is bad!

I dunno these guys are a good example of buzza's adorable fustiness, they get to call themselves 'immortals' and hang out in a little castle but really don't have much influence on the world. french grammar is changing more drastically than english grammar!

anyway I don't think that answer is french, I think the answer would be a country w/ lots of people who like to act helpful but secretly think they're smarter than everyone else

canada?

shocking development!

ties in perfectly w/ the weeknd thread

S3

lol is hoos still mad cause i didnt like that kind of lame guy from youtube

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:15 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol

ps fwiw he is no longer someone for whom i shall stan

canada?

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:46 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

lol, came here to say

Neil Young

eric bachmann. he is a total hero. career musician, food truck operator, genuinely nice guy, grown man.

I like how Hungarian isn't on that tree

I mean I know it's a non-indo-european language, I just kind of marvel at its oddness

dfw
david lynch
kate bush
basic channel

also known to stan for picasso, nietzsche, and joyce depending on the extent of the challops leveled against them

the Who

my stan list is so dorky

Stephen King
Nick Cave
Pearl Jam
Iron Maiden
Drive By Truckers
NIN

inspired by realizing yesterday i am basically a huge obama stan

― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 15:06 (2 years ago)

and now?

i think i still am, more or less. i think "stan" is gettin used just to mean "obsessive fan" by a lot of people, but i think its more than that... its like fandom despite "knowing better" or something. "objectively" i think obama is a big disappointment but irl i cant quit the guy

now that I have compiled my list, I see that max has emended his qualifiers. but i'm posting them anyway (just garden variety "obsessive fan" stuff here)

david lynch
errol morris
roald dahl
umberto eco
fyodor dostoevsky
susan sontag
mark rothko
diane arbus
david hockney
kevin shields
galaxie 500
cocteau twins

i have such a weird and irrational love for the "Sledge Hammer!" TV show that it upsets me that people didn't really seem to get it when it aired

i mean dont get me wrong theres an overlap with "obsessive fandom"... i dont know what i was trying to get at itt but its something about like... being unable to admit that a person/persons work has flaws; defending that person/persons output well beyond where most reasonable people would stop

Arsene Wenger.

― a hoy hoy, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 17:06 (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol at this guy.

Pauline Kael, Bill James, Barack Obama.

i mean dont get me wrong theres an overlap with "obsessive fandom"... i dont know what i was trying to get at itt but its something about like... being unable to admit that a person/persons work has flaws; defending that person/persons output well beyond where most reasonable people would stop
this is the context in which i posted btw

i am an obsessive fan of many things, but i will defend eric bachmann based on my own personal set of standards that no one can question because they are admittedly irrational. i realized i was a stan when i began stanning, basically.

wld stan for R. Barthes and F.W Murnau if necessary.

i am an obsessive fan of many things, but i will defend eric bachmann based on my own personal set of standards that no one can question because they are admittedly irrational. i realized i was a stan when i began stanning, basically.

― Ralpharina (La Lechera), Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:55 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes exactly. being a stan involves a lot of arguments that end with you saying "YOU JUST DONT GET IT"

Pauline Kael, Bill James, Barack Obama.

― clemenza, Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:46 PM (1 hour ago)

haha these are otm

John Larroquette but I think most of ILE already know that. I'm overly critical of TV and movies that he's been in that non-stans think are great. (The John Larroquette Show> S4/S5 of Boston Soapbox)

Robert Palmer. Not much needs to be said but he needed more stans when he was alive.

I used to stan for quite a few Urban/R&B divas. The stanning of the fandom got to be far too obsessive for me, especially when it came to best album choice (Most stans are usually WRONG about their "best album") and collecting every physical maxi single in existence.

Shouldn’t MISERY have been called THE STANNED?

— Kealan Patrick Burke (@KealanBurke) April 28, 2020

nice

Interesting thread. To me, the real difference between being a stan and being a fan is that talking about something I'm a stan of makes my heart rate shoot up, like I instinctively go into fight-or-flight mode on their behalf. If I love something but can talk about it calmly and without trembling, I'm just a fan.

I'm a fan of lots of things but I guess I only really stan Rudyard Kipling, Bruce Springsteen, and Homicide, Life on the Street.

how do we deradicalise these freaks

― imago, Monday, 27 July 2020 09:01 (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

You realise that the most obsessive and extreme reaction of the week is from you, right?

i am not talking about actual ilxors

read the replies if you dare

We reviewed @TaylorSwift13's new album https://t.co/w6hqBCUUIq

— Pitchfork (@pitchfork) July 27, 2020

should've been 10 but okay and it's alternative not pop/r&b pic.twitter.com/UGCWBndsGO

— nad (@cakeymakeup) July 27, 2020

They don't have a alternative label. Lana is also classified as pop/r&b

— Kaique |folklore| (@angelswiftxcx) July 27, 2020

Wow i didn't know that. Thank you!

— nad (@cakeymakeup) July 27, 2020

obvs there are people who should be old enough to engage fav artists critically but most of these people are probably 16. problem is more how warped the perception of p4k scores is, which is p4k's fault.

absolutely agree on the latter point and you won't find me defending pitchfork in all this

but really, who are these people? they operate as a sort of warped collective mind, harassing en masse, absolutely unable to view taylor swift as an ordinary human so much as a figure of absolute worship

how much does swift herself and her extremely carefully-controlled aloof persona court this? probably somewhat. but there are other stan cultures

my mind turns to pro wrestler & terrace house contestant hana kimura who was recently driven to suicide by prolonged bullying by stans

People spent decades following the Grateful Dead like unemployed carnies with sheets of acid hidden in their assholes. Superfans gonna superfan.

Deadheads never had an internet and they were surely too high to go at other people aggressively, this is not the same thing at all

This guy is more nuts than any Swifty.

You guys are crazy... I listened to a couple of songs and I really don't think this should have gotten a perfect 10 lol. I mean, if Joanna Newsom's albums didn't get a 10, this album shouldn't

— Nadav Reiss (@NadavReiss) July 27, 2020

newsom stans are a thing but they're generally a bit more easygoing and wholesome? idk itt we rank the stannages lol

There is this band the Cardiacs their fans wont shut the fuck up about them RIP and some of them even target other artists they deem milk toast and even their fans for just following the consensus, stanning is really despicable

my mind turns to pro wrestler & terrace house contestant hana kimura who was recently driven to suicide by prolonged bullying by stans

― imago, Monday, 27 July 2020 11:14 (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the black dresses situation as well

*quickly mocks up picture of ghost Tim Smith with inverted crucifix & sends to Euler's house covered in blood*

buying into the logic of conde naste brand pivots completely seems like a deeply troubling existence

Black Dresses situation aye, although they were bullied less by stans of a certain act as by stans of a certain dennis-cooper-esque subculture

There is this band the Cardiacs their fans wont shut the fuck up about them RIP and some of them even target other artists they deem milk toast and even their fans for just following the consensus, stanning is really despicable

― Joey Corona (Euler), Monday, 27 July 2020 10:22 (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

also, and i am having to restrain myself here lest i come off as precisely the thing i am criticising itt, this modern 'stan' culture is defined by its rabid defence of the idol, whereas cardiacs fandom has always allowed that lots of people just don't like it and that's fine, there are even loads of self-deprecating jokes and light-hearted digs at the band. the top-rated review of 'sing to god' on RYM is a 1-star review saying 'this is like visiting 4 ugly dentists at once', a review beloved even by fans of the band. not remotely the same thing and for you to post this less than a week after my all-time musical hero has literally died well tbh i am doing well to keep my response civil

whereas cardiacs fandom has always allowed that lots of people just don't like it and that's fine

You sure about that?

did u not notice that i didn't respond to your post yesterday lol

i think the case where it erks me the most is beyonce where the media apparatus also seems similarly unable to approach her critically at this point

Lol that tweet from Pitchfork wasn't even ratio-ed.

"there are even loads of self-deprecating jokes and light-hearted digs at the band. the top-rated review of 'sing to god' on RYM is a 1-star review saying 'this is like visiting 4 ugly dentists at once', a review beloved even by fans of the band"

Sure sure...

Jill Mapes: “I reviewed folklore positively and guess what? I’ve been getting phone calls since 1 am. Stan culture is terrifying.”

do you think social media encourages people in these communities to sort of try and out do eachother, in terms of who is the most committed fan. kinda like something that might have been restricted to a group of friends in school back in the day, but is now unhealthily massive in scale

as I said RIP Cardiacs guy, but you seem to be saying that "stanning" is only a problem if the ones you consider "the other side" do it, because you want to be able to knock not only another artist's music but also their fans, as you imago are among the most obnoxious on this message board at doing, without taking any heat---you're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to do what you're accusing them of doing.

I know I'm unloading on you imago but you've made many threads unreadable over the years with your handwringing about how you don't like some popular artist but the "pitchfork industrial complex" or "mainstream rock critics" can't see the truth. it's just shitty messageboarding.

the mistake we made was to allow talk of "cancel culture" when "internet hate mobs" remained the real issue

Dan Bejar threads, right here on ILX, creep me out

i think imago's passion for cardiacs is v different from hounding writers for giving something a positive review

>

JILLIAN MAPES, COME ON BBY GURL, DONT BE SHY. UN-PRIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT THIS INSTANT pic.twitter.com/e5Mt9R0AmU

— kendoll™ • #1 exile stan (@hissthesnake) July 27, 2020

I agree but the irony of imago showing up on a stan thread could hardly pass without comment.

I Love Stanthropology

https://img.discogs.com/PxNvTmk9DhOpQFoUDru4-DtpYY0=/fit-in/600x592/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-463701-1506095153-5488.jpeg.jpg

stanning for Stan

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/NINTCHDBPICT000001140999.jpg

where does this ludicrous thing about pitchfork being soft on/biased towards r&b come from, heard it before from metal/punk fans too, I’m assuming it’s the obvious

I could see a potential bias in terms of types of artists they typically award BNMs to (metal for instance rarely makes the cut) but that seems to be down to earnest group priorities and not some kind of sinister calculation

just checked and the last two were blood incantation (last november) and deafheaven (summer 2018). so that's pretty rough.

as I said RIP Cardiacs guy, but you seem to be saying that "stanning" is only a problem if the ones you consider "the other side" do it, because you want to be able to knock not only another artist's music but also their fans, as you imago are among the most obnoxious on this message board at doing, without taking any heat---you're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to do what you're accusing them of doing.

I know I'm unloading on you imago but you've made many threads unreadable over the years with your handwringing about how you don't like some popular artist but the "pitchfork industrial complex" or "mainstream rock critics" can't see the truth. it's just shitty messageboarding.

― Joey Corona (Euler), Monday, 27 July 2020 12:15 (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

a) this isn't about knocking an artist's music or criticising their fans, this is about orchestrated mass social media bullying campaigns

b) do i not take any heat? lol

c) to restate: one person mudslinging about the critical consensus surrounding parquet courts or julia holter, no matter how crudely (and give me some credit, i usually do it in the dedicated bitching thread nowadays) is not the same as social media harassment in the service of the stanned artist. let's use cardiacs as a comparison: when have i ever gone on social media or even ilx and attacked someone personally for not giving them a positive enough assessment?

and yeah pitchfork are fucking dreadful about metal (watch me stan metal!) but that's most critics tbf

i think imago's passion for cardiacs is v different from hounding writers for giving something a positive review

― devvvine, Monday, 27 July 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Hmm, fandom takes on these queer shapes. The bigger issue is what pitchfork ought to do to protect their writers from harassment.

their actual metal reviews are fine there's just not enough of them, and other outlets (eg stereogum) have struck a better overall balance imho

stereogum are independent atm right? that must help

stereogum are very noticeably playing to a much broader crowd, it's good

but yeah while there's no love lost between pitchfork and i, this targeted monstering of their writers is absolutely despicable and at its logical extent represents the death of criticism, how can the stan army be dissuaded? is it taytay's responsibility? i kind of think it is. but she doesn't like to get involved in politics you see, bad for the brand

Is this all happening on twitter?

presumably on a lot of platforms but twitter seems the predominant one

are there many historical examples of cultural figureheads telling their own fans to basically calm the fuck down

Altamont?

https://youtu.be/hV8JFj17AtY

bunch of fans trying to curse Pitchfork for a reasonably positive review. fun!

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና በደንብ pic.twitter.com/3cPy3K1sZz

— s h o e b¹³ (@hauntedghostss) July 27, 2020

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና በደንብ ይተኛሉ pic.twitter.com/gOvU8bev3g

— bella⁷ 𝒇𝒐𝒍𝒌𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒆 (@biggrreputation) July 27, 2020

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና pic.twitter.com/SIQi9mbyeu

— folk folk (@encaswift) July 27, 2020

for once I suspect russian interference

Publications's/sites's perceived genre bias is only ever a magic combo of failure to understand audiences + being a perma-butthurt fan of some genre

don't pitchfork and stereogum serve, like, exactly the same audience

Surely Ethiopian there.

the campy occult shit is a bit creepy but the direct in-English harassment (of which there is also a lot) obviously much worse

don't pitchfork and stereogum serve, like, exactly the same audience

prob true about pfork not trying v hard with metal, but at least there are plenty of spaces covering metal exclusively, r&b is always getting accused of taking over generalist music coverage when it’s covered at all, even barely

I thought some of those taylor thinkpieces of the past decade painting her as a borderline fascist weaponising wounded white femininity etc were a little harsh at the time but they prob had a point considering how her online fanbase conducts itself

goes almost without saying but can only assume quarantine is making this several orders worse

It's as easy as coming out and saying "cut this shit out you absolute fucking ghouls". But there's no real incentive for artists to speak out against it, because a) they risk having the rabid, legitimately dangerous pack turn on them and b) their record labels must absolutely love this shit because it terrifies music writers into obedience to whatever narrative, image or product they want to push.

There's a bit in the Taylor documentary where her Dad and a bunch of other old white dudes worry that her endorsing a fucking Democrat would put her life in danger or something. She'd honestly have more to worry about by telling off her fans for their absolutely vile behaviour.

Imago: Have you seen any genuinely deranged Cardiacs fans? We seem deranged to outsiders, true, but so far I've come across only one. (I doubt you know her. She's not British.)

imo when your fans are sending death threats it behooves you to speak up. she has a security detail, critics don't

Music and violence have never gone together.

trying v hard to think of artists i like with a substantial coterie of genuinely deranged fans on social media

mitski? idk tho, most of the social media buzz around her lately has been calling her a cop coz her dad was in the cia. probably led by taylor stans. whose parents...well. i mean.

CRJ's stans must be p grounded, can someone confirm/deny

yall are tasteless asf pic.twitter.com/SPAknMNI8b

— Beny / 𝒇𝒐𝒍𝒌𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒆 like limit (@Benyoutsold) July 27, 2020

alternate headline: washed-up former tastemaker too scared to make any bold assertions about female pop artist doubles down on oddly specific score range to appease the lowest common denominator pic.twitter.com/7M3xXzA6vR

— eugene (@eug1998) July 27, 2020

WTF @pitchfork #pitchforkisoverparty pic.twitter.com/37RRtKGkeN

— Harshit IS CRYINGGGGG.(atleast he is trying) (@taylanastan) July 27, 2020

^^ these are my fave tweets tbf (well apart from witch house taytay obv), because they do touch on the ridiculous grading up to a decimal.

CRJ's stans must be p grounded, can someone confirm/deny

I don't think she even has stans in the sense being discussed itt

The K-pop industrial complex and the various businesses that feed off of it has put a lot on money into creating and weaponizing deranged fans. (By various businesses, I'm thinking in particular of the taxis that cater to fans who want to follow their idols around.)

K-pop IC did a lot to troll Trump/be pro BLM. Don't think it's the same tbh

oh i thought of a good example of an artist i once liked with a noticeable and weirdly obsessive and unhinged fanbase: marina diamandis. and not uncoincidentally (?) her music has fallen through the floor recently. come at me marina stan army

As well as a lot of horrendously destructive behavior.

i do find it extremely hard to engage with k-pop given how...militaristic it is, and i'm sure i'm not alone

It's the absurd Pitchfork Industrial Complex grading that triggers this response. It invites stans to go "b-but chumbawamba had a 8.1 18 years ago you bastards!"

if I were mr or mrs twitter I would improve my website by 20% by banning hashtags with "...isoverparty"

xp I refuse to listen to it, myself, because of it.

the fan armies are awful but surely only a very small fraction of k-pop is “militaristic”

this thread sucks

then again k-pop stans were politically radicalized recently so

audiences/readers are primarily to blame re supporting the grading system. I don't have hard math handy but it always seems to be that arts sites that use grades of one kind or another tend to have a viral appeal that ungraded outlets don't

and of course letterboxd/RYM type places are unthinkable without ratings and are surely stan breeding grounds

idk i've read up on how k-pop groups operate, it seems p militaristic. if the stans are adopting the same causes the rest of us are then that is nice but

RYM unthinkable without ratings yes but at least their overall ratings are a democratic conglomeration rather than a pronouncement from on high

not that i want to exclude the possibility of critics making graded pronouncements, the trouble is the 'on high' bit, and because only a very few (PIC, FIC) outlets give grades that go viral these days, this only serves to concentrate the stan energy

i’m glad we are once again discussing lj’s favorite subjects

audiences/readers are primarily to blame re supporting the grading system. I don't have hard math handy but it always seems to be that arts sites that use grades of one kind or another tend to have a viral appeal that ungraded outlets don't

― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, July 27, 2020 3:48 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't believe even 10% of the taytay stans actually read the review. It's completely on p4k. What do they prefer? To go viral, or for people to actually read the reviews they publish? Wait wait don't tell me! etc. It's the first. Otherwise they'd ditch the lame grading, ditch grading all together, and let people actually read reviews.

xp i bumped this thread tbf, with some favourite subjects v much in mind, and what exactly is wrong about what i just said?

also these subjects are all ilxors' favourite subjects don't front lol

One day we *will* get to the bottom of the global conspiracy to force people to like pop music

i do find it extremely hard to engage with k-pop given how...militaristic it is, and i'm sure i'm not alone

― imago, Monday, 27 July 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Having a problem with militancy again is it

One day we *will* get to the bottom of the global conspiracy to force people to like pop music

― À la recherche du scamps perdu (Noodle Vague), Monday, 27 July 2020 13:57 (twelve seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a p bad-faith reading of everything i've (or anyone has) been saying itt, and obviously i like pop music too

not really, and not really? but it would be self-defeating to argue against stanning for not pop so

Stanning for pop with a huge list of caveats instead

my argument itt has been that it is bad that some high-profile pop artists have fans, encouraged either tacitly by the artist or inadvertently by the critical discourse, who harass and abuse critics, and i have asked what should be done about it

I used to be part of a community where people would do this with all the shit Scaruffi was big into, it was really amusing but also deeply fuckin weird. like they'd berate people into listening to Irrlicht a hundred times

I'm coming to the opinion that everyone who willingly and approvingly calls themselves a stan and/or introduces the term into fandom discussions should be incarcerated

oh yeah there's all that /mu/core shit like fishmans

fishmans are rubbish imo lol

God it must be 10 years since I've read Scaruffi.

they should also remove the scores from rateyourmusic imo

I agree that there's a level of behaviour online which is bad to the point where it shouldn't be acceptable, that line being somewhere around threats and bigotry but nowhere near taking the piss out of writers or baring your shameless devotion. I agree that people with fans should publicly denounce threats and bigotry from their fans.

It's notable that some ilxors including but not limited to you imago seem to get especially exercised by this when very popular artists with big fan bases including professional writers have got a new record out.

i just don't like the distortions born out of mass worship, v aspie of me i know

......

they should also remove the scores from rateyourmusic imo

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, July 27, 2020 4:06 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

hateyourmusic.com

(i am on the spectrum if 14 years yesterday of my posts hadn't alerted u to this)

Stan 4 critical support only.

https://i.imgur.com/kWExY2b.jpg

Not that I disagree, mind you. I've mostly given up, however.

Every fandom is made up of larger or smaller numbers of individual fans tho, so it's either false consciousness en masse or maybe just maybe an individual's dislike is just their own private anti-fandom, no distortion necessary or possible

the distortions in this case are not dislikes, they are slavish, aggressive defences of the stan object

It seems to me that analysing why I don't like something is way more likely to lead to insight than theorising why a bunch of strangers do like something

like they'd berate people into listening to Irrlicht a hundred times

LOL. I have listened to it a fair bit myself mind you.

but i do quite like the new taylor swift album despite not liking her as a person (see triggercut post upthread)

I initially misread that as 'liberate people into listening to Irrlicht' and was like 'yeah, that's exactly it'.

xp

I think 99% of the Taylor fandom on Twitter is performative, though maybe people making threatening comments about the p4k review or whatever are going too far (if they're actually serious). Maybe Taylor Swift could say something to stop that, but idk if she really needs to or if it would be helpful, b/c there are obsessive weirdos to be found in every pop niche cult.

"I agree that people with fans should publicly denounce threats and bigotry from their fans."

They should, but tbh I doubt it would stop them -- taking this from the way I've seen political crankery operate on twitter -- so it should be the publication taking steps to protect the writer's welfare.

Read a thread from a Guardian writer (not a regular) last week who said she was doing a piece, detailing the care and attention and reading she put into it...but she also said that issue was so contentious that she was going to lock her account for a week so that people don't send her abuse via twitter. Very much where we are.

lj agonistes

Fragments of a Pitchforkian Melodrama

You're right about employers's duty of care Alph yes

Read a thread from a Guardian writer (not a regular) last week who said she was doing a piece, detailing the care and attention and reading she put into it...but she also said that issue was so contentious that she was going to lock her account for a week so that people don't send her abuse via twitter. Very much where we are.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, July 27, 2020 10:25 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is more "where we are" a few years ago (also, locking one's account doesn't totally stop it, although it does filter a great deal. but then of course if you get doxed locking your account is just a bandaid)

also:

It's notable that some ilxors including but not limited to you imago seem to get especially exercised by this when very popular artists with big fan bases including professional writers have got a new record out.

― À la recherche du scamps perdu (Noodle Vague), Monday, July 27, 2020 10:06 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I didn't want to be an asshole about this but several hours later it's still one of the most asinine things I have read all week, which now includes tweets by stans. no fucking shit this happens primarily for very popular artists with big fan bases, given that it is those big fan bases that tend to harass people. this really is not very difficult logic at all.

(and also I think we can spare the handwringing about "they're just expressing their shameless devotion, get over it" when such expressions of devotion involve doxing and spamming writers' phones since the dread positive reivew went up at 1 a.m.)

tbf to NV he was referring to my iconoclastic instinct towards the music itself rather than my censure of stans

in this case as I say I quite liked the music so my ire is really only reserved for the stans and a little bit for taytay for not calling them off

"(also, locking one's account doesn't totally stop it, although it does filter a great deal. but then of course if you get doxed locking your account is just a bandaid)"

I wasn't arguing it was, just relating back what the writer was saying. The Guardian link the writer to their social media (usually twitter) account.

Agree its bandaid, it needs publications and twitter to make a joint effort to stop this. But that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

The Swifties are mad at the New York Times because Jon Caramanica is a "pop music critic" and Folklore is an "indie alternative" album, and so his review is clearly "biased and unprofessional."

Good Lord.

Hi, I’ve decided to contact you in light of folklore’s new album review. Given that the critic that has analyzed the album hasn’t looked at the album objectively but instead compared it to her older work and previous genre -

— Michael Pratini #Folklore (@michaelpratini) July 26, 2020

- personal taste has been involved in the review as well as bias from the critic which altered the actual review and analysis of the album. Please remove the review and assign it to someone more professional, preferably an experienced alternative listener. Sincerely.

— Michael Pratini #Folklore (@michaelpratini) July 26, 2020

Oh, and they're lobbying Metacritic to remove Caramanica's review for the same reason. SMH.

lmao stans own

doxxing can gtf tho

Maybe this will get people to ease up on the Zoomer fetishizing

this is an unexpected turn in the poptimism/rockism war

Unexpected, you say...

stans of indie rock star taylor swift harassing jon caramanica over his love of frivolous pop music

we must reunite the four crystals to make the world right again

"change the score, tell us how much you want we can make a fund"

I think we've found a way to save music journalism.

all this because swift decided to do her man of the woods phase a bit early (i'm just assuming that's what this album is i'm not gonna listen to it)

crowdfunding BNMs.....it could work!

Justin Timberlake must be seething.

Michael Pratini...from one of the greatest footballers of the 80s, to the UEFA scandal, and now this; how can a man sink any lower

He could talk about how he is "on the spectrum" to justify his terrible posts?

if you'll forgive me (don't bother) for lapsing into stan mode, the stan of self, the one true eternal stan: why do you even post, everyone fucking hates you

I like posting.

https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/03/taylor-swift-folklore-hardcore-pop-fans-abusing-critics-stan?

"This is horrible, anti-artistic behaviour from people wanting total consensus. That would be a strange and damaging thing to want even in politics, where some degree of consensus is necessary to make a democracy run. In art though, this impulse is downright fascistic."

Lol @ anti-artistic behaviour. Also berating (mainly) young people for fascism when the parents vote Trump and Tory.

i give folklore zero stars. take that, stans!!

I did a vote last week, we decided narrowly that everything is bad.

Who are the real villains?

* Publications which insist on grading music to decimal places
* Obsessive stans who launch petitions to have any non-fawning reviews taken down
* Music writers who are still somehow employed in 2020, so must have done kind of faustian pact.

— Centuries of Sound (@Centuries_Sound) July 28, 2020

I read some people on Facebook commenting that Swift's silence re: the harassment Mapes and Empire was "disgusting". I thought about responding there but decided to type it here.

People decrying Swift's silence, people targeting Mapes for her review, people piling on JK Rowling for being an TERFy idiot, the fact that Swift likely has to deal with a weekly attempt at a break-in, B-list musicians getting stalked, C-list musicians getting stalked-- this is all symptomatic of the same issue. The issue: individuals who have obtained even a modicum of visibility by dint of their occupation become subject to immense demonstrations of onlooker entitlement. Onlookers demonstrate entitlement over the visible individual's attention, their opinions, their bodies, and responding with immense resentment when their entitlement is met with resistance. (I don't want to focus on "stans" because I don't think it's just "stans" who do this-- even certain professional music writers themselves absolutely veer outside the realm of objectivity and demonstrate immense levels of entitlement upon their subject, even to the point of obvious narcissistic abuse.)

"Twitter" is a catalyst, not the problem itself. I don't know what the problem is, but I think it's a metaproblem that is woven into the very fabric of concepts of "visibility" and "culture industry".

tbf Rowling would probably not be getting abuse for being a terf is she didn't persistently keep posting terf shit on Twitter

I'm not saying that Rowling doesn't deserve the abuse, or defending her in any way shape or form. I'm just saying: it's abuse, it's not actually criticism. (You know, forget that I ever mentioned Rowling, to me she's literally not important and I've found over the past month that when I even mention her in passing, people will frothingly defend their inalienable right to frame the transparent online abuse she's received as "criticism", and I feel ridiculous even talking about it any more considering that I, too, agree that Rowling's comments were fucking foul, and I have no personal use for her presence or work in my life henceforth.)

I agree that there's a lot of abuse which is beyond the pale, and I agree that people are not fair game because they happen to have some level of celebrity

Don't use Twitter would seem to be one way out of this.

Yes. Several A-list musicians I am acquainted with do not engage with social media in any capacity-- two particularly famous clients don't own phones at all and communicate solely via e-mail. But: Twitter is just a pressure cooker for a broader cultural problem.

In what ways does it happen outside of Twitter? Feels like Twitter fuels it behind the scenes either way.

harassment of people in the public sphere/their relatives happened long before twitter!! harassment can take many forms, it's just easier now

Also, writers/journalists have good reason to feel they must be on twitter for professional reasons

I suppose I assumed fgti was talking more about when people gang up to do it but I misread.