Facebook flashmob shuts down station

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/02/09/uk.station.flashmob/index.html

"It was both good cause we all stuck like a group didn't stop dancing inside and outside but bad cause of the people who could get anywhere but hey I love it WE MADE HISTORY RIGHT THERE!!" one Facebook user said on the event's Web site.

"Yeah I agree, there wasn't any bad feelings there. Everybody just had a good time, apart from my friend being groped by some guy, but you'll always get one," another wrote.

way 2 go t-mobile street team

They should do a flashmob where everyone shows up with a gun loaded with blanks.

Just waiting for the negative comments from all the jaded cynics opposed to people having fun.

(xx-post)

QED

Sounds like fun to me!

i actually clicked on this thinking "please not a UK story..."

Steve do you not want "excitement" brought to your "otherwise unexciting locale"? Would you not like "a story" you "can tell for the rest of" your life? Why not just "laugh", "smile", or "stop to notice the world around" you?

God this would enrage me so much if they did it at Charing Cross. Flashmobs are for people who don't deserve real fun.

fucking students.

I don't think anyone opposed to those things was forced to participate.

(xx-post)

maybe they missed their trains because they couldn't get through the crowds quickly enough

they should've done it outdoors

We could live in a better world without mobile phones.

and nude xp

I am not opposed to laughing or smiling or noticing the world around me, I'm opposed to smug fucks who think I can't do it without their help.

Steve do you not want "excitement" brought to your "otherwise unexciting locale"? Would you not like "a story" you "can tell for the rest of" your life? Why not just "laugh", "smile", or "stop to notice the world around" you?

― cat anatomy expert (ledge), Monday, 9 February 2009 17:22 (4 minutes ago)

Just "SHUT THE FUCK UP" already

srsly I would probably break my self-imposed "no violence" rule of the pas 21 years and attempt to beat all kinds of holy fuck out of these people if they were doing this in Boston, as it would be a guarantee of missing my train

I don't think anyone opposed to those things was forced to participate.

They overcrowded and shut down a major central London transport hub at pretty much peak time. At least protesters have a cause to pimp. This is just dickish orgafun.

50 years from now: "I wish grandad would stop telling that godawful story about filming some crappy event on his mobile phone, whatever the hell they are"

"i took many a groping, but t'was all in good fun"

this country.

They overcrowded and shut down a major central London transport hub at pretty much peak time.

Yes, for a whopping 15 minutes. I'm sure the amount of hurt caused by this is massive. Also, is 7PM really a peak time over there?

lol i can only imagine the glee w/ which t-mobiles communications dept is forwarding this article arnd the office

crazzy eve is now a t-mobile marketing hero

I don't think anyone opposed to those things was forced to participate.

How is it not 100% obvious that anyone in the general vicinity of the damn thing is "participating" just by having a normal life and private personal business to conduct and trying to get ANYWHERE that's affected by either the event or its overflow?

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I've always thought that things that disrupt the dreary everyday routine for small while, yet are harmless and fun, are actually a good thing.

Disrupt your own damn routine.

We have blackouts and collapsing buildings for that.

And exploding manhole covers.

its not all that harmless tuomas--a doctor was supposed to get on that train to save seven kids who were dying of tuberculosis--he missed his train and the kids all died--whos disrupting the dreary and everyday now?

I think people should be summoned to these things bat-signal style by a giant celestial image of Thong Tuomas.

people need to get their ideas of "fun" from places other than stupid tv ads

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I've always thought that things that disrupt the dreary everyday routine for small while, yet are harmless and fun, are actually a good thing.

― Tuomas, Monday, February 9, 2009 6:36 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

are you employed, sir?

Yes, for a whopping 15 minutes.

I know that looking things up is anathema to you but copy/pasting "Liverpool Street Station Silent Dance" into Facebook takes you to the event page for this, where one of the top comments on the discussion topic "Good idea or bad idea?" reads:

Well, we kept Liverpool Street Underground closed till gone 8.30pm, so we left a bloody good legacy!

It took longer to make this post than it did to find this information. Furthermore, anyone with even the slightest grasp of logistics could have told you there was no fucking way that this only impacted the station for 15 minutes.

I don't need to be forced by some putrid mobile phone company to break from the drudgery of routine.

This is akin to mime artistes.

the "fun" here isn't coming from an event it's coming from fucking with other people, basically. i mean if all you wanted to do was gather somewhere and dance silently you can do it in an empty stadium parking lot or something

I'm actually a fan of those artsy-smartsy giant puppet crowd events that meet over on some tiny street on the west side and don't affect traffic but are a harmless public spectacle for the interested, and it does chap my hide when cops get involved needlessly. But closing down Broadway in Soho to march down it on a weekend is just...really? You needed to do that in the name of over-entitlement, I mean, "fun"?

tbh im glad my dad's three-hour-plus dreary commute wasn't 'disrupted'. fortunately he goes from kings cross.

"Pat yourself on the back, you're spiking the wheels of The System, maaaaan!"

this kind of thing is more people being passive-aggressive than anything else imo

Trains get disrupted enough by themselves without a bunch of dancing twats adding to it.

xpost Also closing Liv St from 7pm-8:30pm is a good way of ruining fun for a lot of people who were trying to get to a night out somewhere!

im with tuomas u dudes need to chill and learn to appreciate subway delays for the glimpse unto the fantastic they are

I use that line to get to gigs sometimes. If only I could end up missing a band I wanted to see because a bunch of cocks wanted to liven up my journey.

people need to get their ideas of "fun" from places other than stupid tv ads

for real. i bet they were all listening to twee shit as constantly used in ads lately too.

was t-mobil the same company that did the ad showing how cool and fun it would be to race shopping carts down a supermarket aisle and then run away from all the squares who were buying food and household goods?

I agree that the people who arranged this thing should've thought that the place might get flooded, but they probably didn't expect so many people to show up. (And they're arranging the next event in a park - see, they've learned something!) But in general I'm all for people doing stuff that disrupts the regular everyday greyness a bit and doesn't hurt anyone. It'd be a sad world if no one ever came up with stuff like this.

"aw jeez boss sorry i was late to work but my dreary and everyday routine was interrupted by a bunch of college kids copying a cell phone ad--btw i quit because now i know the true value of life!!!"

"be special"

"break free"

"be extraordinary"

"T-MOBILE"

In short, I think the idea was good but it could've been organized better.

It'd be a sad world if no one ever came up with stuff like this.

i feel this way but about those lexus commercials

But in general I'm all for people doing stuff that disrupts the regular everyday greyness a bit and doesn't hurt anyone. It'd be a sad world if no one ever came up with stuff like this.

― Tuomas, Monday, February 9, 2009 6:45 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://picasion.com/pic6/17e7cc34b03503b88f5791cfaa7679f8.gif

^^ exciting way to disrupt the regular appearance of trollmas on ilx

they really helped me realize that life is better appreaciated on the back roads and also when your ultrarich

http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/2009/01/our-zany-world-real-life-group-memes-for-the-sake-of-lightening-up-our-world.html

should have read the riot act and machine gunned these daft cunts

Remember that time Russia flashmobbed Finland? Good times.

(Note: does n e 1 know if the background music is the Animal Collective/MSTRKRFT leak?)

this really makes my eyes roll very, very hard

^^^ seeing the world from a whole new perspective

I mean, cynical folks can make all the snide comments they want to, but many people can still get a bit fun out of stuff like this, and if it's only organized better next time, I don't see how their fun takes anything away from anyone else. Like I said, no one's forced to participate.

(several x-posts)

Srsly, if you want to do something goofy, do something like this:

http://www.losmarcospolos.com/

Everyone involved is choosing to be involved, you get to have your creative outlet and it actually require a good deal more thought, planning and effort than "lol let's imitate a commercial".

srsly I would probably break my self-imposed "no violence" rule of the pas 21 years and attempt to beat all kinds of holy fuck out of these people if they were doing this in Boston, as it would be a guarantee of missing my train

― nosotros niggamos (HI DERE), Monday, February 9, 2009 5:28 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^i would seriously be getting all chris brown on some of those dudes if i'd been caught up in this bullshit

I mean, cynical folks can make all the snide comments they want to, but many people can still get a bit fun out of stuff like this, and if it's only organized better next time, I don't see how their fun takes anything away from anyone else. Like I said, no one's forced to participate.

― Tuomas, Monday, February 9, 2009 6:52 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it shut the fucking station down you stupid fuck! of course it forces people to 'participate'! also they are biting an advert. also it's retarded.

got no problem with this sort of thing as long as it doesn't fuck with other people and their commute/lives/etc. frankly i think all of the participants of this sort of thing are nostalgic former theater students w/massive egos who want to get onstage again b/c dreaming about being in the branagh much ado about nothing isn't cutting it these days.

Well yeah, I agree that there are better ideas for and better ways of doing public performances, but I don't think it matters where the inspiration comes from if people are enjoying what they're doing.

(xxx-post)

i never realized i loved my family until i couldnt catch a train home to see them because a group of students wanted to recreate a marketing campaign

later this week i will be mimicking recent Lynx adverts.

dance like no one is watching

love like youve never been hurt

live like youre in a commercial for cellular telephone service

a gray and faceless efficient commute is one of the great achievements of humankind imo

i can see the followup ad now

"On February 9th, T-Mobil inspired something extraordinary...."

cue shots of annoying d-bags culture jamming, TV on the Radio music, etc

"How will you change the world?"

It doesn't matter where inspiration comes from but it sure as hell matters what you do with said inspiration.

it shut the fucking station down you stupid fuck! of course it forces people to 'participate'! also they are biting an advert. also it's retarded.

Like I said, I think the station shutting down wasn't a good thing (though it was probably inadvertent), but it seems many folks are against this sort of stuff in principle, even if doesn't harm anyone or make anyone's train go late... And this is baffling to me, as I don't really understand why some people are so critical towards other people having fun.

aren't you the guy who masturbates in front of babies?

it really depends on how much fun is had vs how much the desire for attention has been sated

disrupting the baby's dreary, everyday existence

And how do you measure that?

(x-post)

maybe a bunch of dancing shitheads fucking up the trains will remind the public that billions around the globe have trouble travelling from their home to work or to get goods and services without serious effort, expense, or danger. well done.

these people are having "fun" yeah but i think their motive is more to throw a wrench into the works rather than to just have fun.

though it was probably inadvertent

This is where you are wrong, the disruption is ENTIRELY advertent. It's the whole point of the exercise. After all, who's "dreary quotidian existence" are you supposed to be enlivening if not that of the regular business people and travelers who have to navigate around you?

Their next flash mob should involve them picking up litter or something useful like that, in pairs, so as to avoid crowds. Won't catch on.

shit like this doesn't exist in a vacuum it totally requires bringing your corporate-inspired party to a public place and telling people all about how t-mobil will make your life better.

play-mobil

It's funny how people's perceptions of this kind of stuff flip depending on who is being inconvenienced by the "fun". Chicago has a frequent huge, mass public bike ride called Critical Mass that frequently snarls vehicular traffic around the city. I was once stuck on an exit ramp for nearly an hour with my car in park waiting for the bicyclists to clear out. Fairly infuriating, but since I was one of the "evil, polluting automobile drivers" it was all good, clean fun to inconvenience me!

John Hyman your ad copy for the followup ad has the tone down to a T

not saying orange staged the blackout btw

Their next flash mob should involve them picking up litter or something useful like that

did this one time but decided not to broadcast it on the internet

We have those Critical Mass things in Helsinki too. For what it's worth, I don't think car driving is a privilege that everyone should be able to freely enjoy whenever and wherever they want to, so I don't think it's necessarily bad thing to disrupt it. If everyone on the planet had that privilege, we'd be doomed.

I think the point of this is that even if they don't disrupt people by making them late, there is an extreme narcissism involved in imposing your zany good timez into the lives of other people. The people with the boring grey humdrum lives become involuntary cogs in the spectacle. I suppose its really a resentment at being forced to be the focus of someone else's gratification as this is only fun for these people because they are being looked at. Also, its not like anyone asked to have their boring humdrum existence interrupted.

I don't really understand why some people are so critical towards other people having fun.

b/c those peoples' "fun" involved a lot more people NOT having any fun at all

this thread really needs some TOMBOT action, can we unban him and let him loose

i thought this sort of shit was a great idea after i read the re/search PRANKS! issue but lost most of my interest in trying to do it partially when i realized that the people involved in the stuff were actually artists and smarter than me and also that there was a big difference between the sorts of pranks that where artful and enjoyed by the people around you and the ones that were self-serving and injurious to the people around you, or a statement on why they where dead-eyed sheep but mostly because i stopped being seventeen.

We have those Critical Mass things in Helsinki too. For what it's worth, I don't think car driving is a privilege that everyone should be able to freely enjoy whenever and wherever they want to, so I don't think it's necessarily bad thing to disrupt it. If everyone on the planet had that privilege, we'd be doomed.

See, this attitude is what pisses me off. Some of us have to drive for our jobs/careers. I'm an architect, so I have to be able to drive to job sites on very short notice at times. It's in my job description to have a vehicle and a valid driver's license. I would love to take public transportation every day, I really would. But I can't. It's not up to you to inconvenience me because you don't like the decisions I have to make to further my chosen career.

i for one am willing to drive my car more so that i can shock finland out of its blissful humdrum post-e comedown clean air existence.

if everyone was an architect, we'd be doomed.

Yeah, I never should have joined this clusterfuck obvs.

restaurants shaped like food tho! xp

I think the point of this is that even if they don't disrupt people by making them late, there is an extreme narcissism involved in imposing your zany good timez into the lives of other people. The people with the boring grey humdrum lives become involuntary cogs in the spectacle. I suppose its really a resentment at being forced to be the focus of someone else's gratification as this is only fun for these people because they are being looked at. Also, its not like anyone asked to have their boring humdrum existence interrupted.

I see your point, but why does everyone here seem to think that all the people who witness these sort of performances automatically hate them? I assume many people who see them actually enjoy them. Just because you're a cynic doesn't mean everyone is.

In my particular case, it was the bicyclists giving everyone in a motorized vehicle the finger that tipped me off.

If you go to the Improveverywhere site where there's a lot of videos of these kind of performances, you can see that a lot of the people who witness them actually think they're fun.

I see your point, but why does everyone here seem to think that all the people who witness these sort of performances automatically hate them? I assume many people who see them actually enjoy them. Just because you're a cynic doesn't mean everyone is.

have you ever commuted through the pit of hell that is liv st station at rush hour?

Jon, I wasn't talking about the Critical Mass thing. That's a political demonstration, and it's a whole different thing.

I assume many people who see them actually enjoy them.

The purpose of going to a subway station is that you have someplace that you would like to - or need to - be. That's why you go there. A flashmob event like this one stops you from being able to do that. Now, there may have been a few lollygagging people who didn't have any particular place to go who thought that the flashmob was funny or cute, but speaking as someone you commutes using public transportation on the daily, I would have been furious.

i used to hate the fact that i had to take a full-time office job to support my family and provide for my children, until i was delayed more than 90 minutes coming home--now i understand that life is precious and every moment should be treasured

re: improveverywhere - i just watched a little documentary bit on that Improv Everywhere dude (on the showtime "this american life" show lol) that makes it clear what a smarmy "better than you SHEEEEPLE" style cunt that main dude is.

Tuomas if someone is upset that a disruptive spectacle has been imposed on them that doesn't automatically make them a "cynic". You're loading the dice with your choice of words.

people who pull this kind of shit don't want to amaze you, they want you to think they're amazing

re: improveverywhere - i just watched a little documentary bit on that Improv Everywhere dude (on the showtime "this american life" show lol) that makes it clear what a smarmy "better than you SHEEEEPLE" style cunt that main dude is.

Could be, but I think a lot of the stuff they've done is quite cool (and not particularly elitist), so it doesn't matter what the main dude thinks about it.

omar dropping zen bombs

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I've always thought that things that disrupt the dreary everyday routine for small while, yet are harmless and fun, are actually a good thing.

― Tuomas, Monday, February 9, 2009 6:36 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

are you employed, sir?

― nobody really hates hen fap (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, February 9, 2009 6:39 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Maybe people who do stuff like this are smug bastards who only want to look amazing, but I think it's still cool and would be fun to witness.

yah but doing corny shit in a starbucks to freak out the squares doesn't mean that it takes me an extra hour to get home, u dig

Yeah, I'm employed. What does that have to with anything?

flashmobs = full of people who are easily led and have a herd-like mentality

yah but doing corny shit in a starbucks to freak out the squares doesn't mean that it takes me an extra hour to get home, u dig

Yeah, but I was answering to folks who criticize this sort of stuff in general, not just this particular, poorly arranged event.

Yeah, I criticise this stuff in general

tuomas i think you are being way too generous re: their intentions. i honestly don't think these stunts are really intended to enliven anyone's dreary existence except those of the participants.

this is baffling to me, as I don't really understand why some people are so critical towards other people having fun

Tuomas, you say this as if you've never, ever in your years of posting to ILX gone on and on about how something other people find fun is horrible and embarrassing. Which you have. Loads of times. About stuff that doesn't even burden public infrastructure.

tuomas i think you are being way too generous re: their intentions. i honestly don't think these stunts are really intended to enliven anyone's dreary existence except those of the participants.

― obi don quixote (elmo argonaut), Monday, February 9, 2009 6:34 PM (35 seconds ago)

it's like an elaborate bank heist except instead of infiltrating security and stealing money you are acting like a anntention-hungry spaz and posting about it on the internet.

tuomas i think you are being way too generous re: their intentions. i honestly don't think these stunts are really intended to enliven anyone's dreary existence except those of the participants.

But what if they do anyway? Like I said, if you read the comments and check the videos on the Improveverywhere, a lot of people do find them fun to witness.

people who pull this kind of shit don't want to amaze you, they want you to think they're amazing

QFT

xpost, yeah but the point is how much fun it is for the ppl in them and how omg mega zany they are

And even if that wasn't the case, most of these things don't make any trains go late, don't cause any harm to anyone, and make the people who participate in them happy. What's wrong with that?

(xx-post)

i honestly don't think these stunts are really intended to enliven anyone's dreary existence except those of the participants.

i don't know, i imagine there is an element of 'these people's quotidian lives will be ENLIVENED and ENRICHED by seeing my stunty street theatre' to it also.

anytime i have ever met people who are into anything even remotely like this they are, without fail, so interested in letting you hear about themselves and are so nice about telling you about everything cool and weird about them, but couldn't care less about what your story is.

the only time i ever enjoyed seeing something like this was in iceland where a bunch of sexy people in vintage clothes were walking other sexy people in vintage clothes on leashes like dogs in downtown reykjavík

and they wonder why their banks crashed

I think part of why this stuff is so irritating for so many people - even if it doesn't clog up a transport hub, and even if it's as cool as the moebius Starbuck's thing, which really was cool - is that there's a disconnect between something whose entire reason for existing is its intersection with the everyday life of "the public" and the fact that this event is closed-off from anyone who wasn't in on the gag in the first place - the "public" has few or zero vectors into participating or becoming part of the scene and must basically accept a role as passive spectator. Flash mobs make a promise that their asses can't cash: hey, it's a new kind of performance, a public type of performance - your day will be transformed! Except the public remains outside the mechanism. Even with the moebius thing, there's a nagging feeling of being fucked with and not invited.

I don't think flash mobs can really overcome this because I suspect the major part of their draw is the very fact that they establish an "inside" that the participants get to be part of.

please note the significant absense of any "culture jamming" / "fucking with retail & service workers" mentality of the above scenario

xxpost

There are a lot of smug and self-centered people in the world anyway. If all the folks who participate in these sort of things are like that (which I kinda doubt), at least they're doing something more fun with their smugness than 99% of other smug people.

(xxxx-post)

people who pull this kind of shit don't want to amaze you, they want you to think they're amazing to hook up.

is there a particular finnish expression for 'moving goalposts'?

the only "interrupting my commute" kinda culture jamming i would really welcome if if Totoro himself dropped out of the sky and sat in the middle of the 10 freeway

if re-enacting adverts is your idea of fun, you're welcome to it, but the feeling may not be universally shared.

dbag bike messengers and jobless facebookers are not magical forest creatures who bring joy, as much as they wish they were, so they kinda fall short

Like I said, I think the station shutting down wasn't a good thing (though it was probably inadvertent), but it seems many folks are against this sort of stuff in principle, even if doesn't harm anyone or make anyone's train go late... And this is baffling to me, as I don't really understand why some people are so critical towards other people having fun.

― Tuomas, Monday, 9 February 2009 18:01 (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/die-front.jpg

These people don't give a shit what kind of disruption or inconvenience to others they cause, just as long as they have their "fun".

is that there's a disconnect between something whose entire reason for existing is its intersection with the everyday life of "the public" and the fact that this event is closed-off from anyone who wasn't in on the gag in the first place - the "public" has few or zero vectors into participating or becoming part of the scene and must basically accept a role as passive spectator.

I see your point, but a lot of these things can only be done effectively with a limited amount of performers. And if you think of it as performance art or street art, most art like that still has the performer and the spectator (even if some cases people try to break that boundary), and it doesn't mean the spectator isn't enjoying what he's seeing.

Tracer is insanely OTM here: that's essentially the source of my nugget of cynicism about these things. They treat "the public" as an audience -- not just an audience, but an audience in need of edification -- in a way I find unseemly. I mean, there are plenty of things I'd find "fun" to subject people to, but I don't, because of what's known as basic politeness. (I also don't stand up in public places and read my favorite poems really loud on the logic that I'm brightening people's days with great poems -- and I doubt Tuomas does either.)

I mean, there are plenty of things I'd find "fun" to subject people to

poll?

Too much mob; not enough flashing.

the other day i was thinking about rad it would be if i could just broadcast my ipod to everyone else on the train they look so tired and enervated at 7:10 in the morning i just know a jolt from my disco mix would help them out

I also don't stand up in public places and read my favorite poems really loud on the logic that I'm brightening people's days with great poems -- and I doubt Tuomas does either.

No, but if I saw someone doing that, I thought it'd be cute, and I definitely wouldn't hate this smug and elitist person.

btw tracer 8080, even the "reclaiming public space" rationale is fucked over if you don't promote interaction. in such a way, i think the conspiracy theorist nutjobs who (used to, at least) stake out in Union Square Park and rant about Rumsfield and Halliburton could teach these fucking flashmobbers a thing or two about reclaiming public space and are more genuinely subversive than starbucks agit-prop
++xp

No, but if I saw someone doing that, I thought it'd be cute, and I definitely wouldn't hate this smug and elitist person.

I call bullshit on you even being a human being.

^^ hahaha there was a thread a long time ago -- the huge argument about yelling "funny" things out of car windows -- where lots of people were like "c'mon, what's the big deal, it's all in fun, etc." and I said they sounded like date rapists, and everyone acted like I was being insane.

One result of that is that I constantly think of arguments like Tuomas's in those terms, but don't say so, because in the present instance that is genuinely a ridiculous and unfair comparison

P.S. Tuomas you are either a really horrible anarchist or just plain lying: there is no way you actually want to live in a world where everyone feels free to just stand up in restaurants and start shouting poems over one another

if i commuted by train, basically the only interruption i could stand would be a quartet of well-scrubbed teenagers doing barbershop/doo-wop versions of contemporary r&b hitz. i think i'd stop and listen every day. fuck all else.

The classical musicians in random places busking is fine w me, I'm happy to hear Mozart violin thingies in Grand Central. But I can also easily walk away when my enjoyment wanes/I am late for work.

buskers are a totally different species, tho

Busking has a social history, is minimally invasive, and -- per Tracer's terms -- is generous: there's a really clear intention to entertain you, and not some slight undertow that you are being fucked with for someone else's entertainment.

Also, usually just one busker, not 14,000.

P.S. Tuomas you are either a really horrible anarchist or just plain lying: there is no way you actually want to live in a world where everyone feels free to just stand up in restaurants and start shouting poems over one another

You didn't say anything about restaurants previously. When talking about "public places" I mean places where people can choose whether or not to stop to witness the performance, which is hardly the case if you've booked a restaurant table for the evening.

Btw, what are people's opinion on street musicians, street parades, samba carnivals and stuff like that? Because they're doing the same thing as these public performances, disrupting the flow of everyday life without people asking for it. Are they somehow different from flash mobs and alike, and if so, why?

(xx-post)

Man, I bet Dirty Dicks was RAMMED that night.

And yes I am saying that solely so Dan can be made aware of the existence of an establishment called Dirty Dicks.

street musicians: just setting up on a corner somewhere

parades and carnivals: advertised, people know about it, they go there specifically to engage in fun

what the hell is a samba carnival

Are they somehow different from flash mobs and alike, and if so, why?

Maybe public notices that say things like "MAIN ST. WILL BE CLOSED FROM NOON - 4PM FRIDAY FOR A BIG FUCKING PARADE?"

xpost

guys why do you even bother

guys why do you even bother

― horseshoe, Monday, February 9, 2009 2:08 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is all part of an elaborate 'public improv' on the internet where people get in an argument with tuomas to shake u out of ur everyday existence - i cant believe u dont get it

GIS for samba carnival yields lots of naked boobies. I say let's get this thing done.

max can bother because he is makin me laugh. lolz @ shaking a baby out of its dull, dreary existence, in particular.

shaking stuff at a baby to make it scared: c/d?

(xxxxxxxxxpost)

Btw, what are people's opinion on street musicians, street parades, samba carnivals and stuff like that? Because they're doing the same thing as these public performances, disrupting the flow of everyday life without people asking for it. Are they somehow different from flash mobs and alike, and if so, why?

A street musician is usually one guy on his own, sometimes it might be two guys with guitars or four/five people with instruments. That's not 12,000 people and doesn't cause any disruption.
Street parades and carnivals are advertised well in advance so that people who don't want to get caught in them can avoid them. They are also organised in conjunction with local government and the police so as to cause minimal disruption.

in Toronto we have pantsless subway rides. Stoned, gay-loving Canada wins again!

that sounds like a loss for everyone

wins at being the most annoying country on the planet, maybe

samba carnival at Dirty Dick's

P.S. For the record I think "let's have a spontaneous dance party in a public place" is a perfectly inoffensive idea -- I also think anyone who's willing to try that in a major train station is knowingly being an asshole to the public, because it does not take advanced urban-planning degrees to figure out that this is going to inconvenience commuters

(What's kind of amusing and semi-relevant here is that there is in fact an entire bureaucracy of public servants whose entire job is to decide things like which public art/event concepts are worth inconveniencing people over! And the fact that cities bother having such things is maybe a good indication that people do actually care about not just having people do inconvenient things willy-nilly)

xpost -- ^^ Tuomas, the above is an answer to your question about street parades and carnivals, which are NOT "disrupting the flow of everyday life without people asking for it" -- umm, these things are collectively organized and managed by the public as a whole

I'm not some kind of public-permit stan who thinks everything needs bureaucratic approval, or anything, I'm just saying there is a pretty uncomplicated hierarchy of how much most of us choose to unilaterally disrupt the rest of the public, and it tends to work okay as-is

wow mental note to remain standing if ever on toronto subway xpost

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2129/67/123/515038390/n515038390_1408718_4427.jpg

he's totally tucking

A pantsless Tube ride in London would look considerably different...

Yeah a "pantsless tube ride" already sounds plenty different

yeah, well, I said I am Canadian

I've been on "subway parties" which are no doubt a huge annoyance/attention-getting dodge but don't stop non-participants from being able to catch or enter a train...and members of the normal public are explicitly invited to participate. Participation only requires that you feel like it at that moment. If you don't feel like it, um...it's going to be kind of loud in here for most of your trip, sorry.

I don't do them anymore.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

Those people pay and use the train, though, and take up specific cars, and ... I've never seen them seriously disrupt the service beyond making a couple cars weird and noisy and maybe a little extra boarding time.

opening scene of step up 2 the streets is pretty rad subway dance party

I'm not some kind of public-permit stan who thinks everything needs bureaucratic approval, or anything

nabisco (actual photo):

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~llackore/Pictures/hermes.jpg

Actually Londoners did completely mob the Tube last summer on the last day it was legal to drink on it. They made it pretty much unusable, but that was an anti-Boris thing, and they did it on a summery Saturday evening, so it's not as reprehensible.

this should really have been the biggest Al Qaeda PR coup imaginable

*should really of been

I would of thought you had it right first time

http://maximumbob.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/shrug.jpg

Law school is fucking my mind up - I keep wanting to think of this in terms of a "balancing test" that weighs the factors of humor, fun and significance against the disruption and inconvenience caused.

^^ state already has apparatus to do such balancing

haha I don't know if there's complete clarity on what types of events require use of that apparatus, but I'm sure there's a code somewhere

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

^^ state already has apparatus to do such balancing

― nabisco, Monday, February 9, 2009 3:23 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

Of course. In fact I'm sure courts themselves would use some kind of "balancing test" if a group challenged police action against a flashmob on free speech/assembly grounds.

Tuomas if someone is upset that a disruptive spectacle has been imposed on them that doesn't automatically make them a "cynic". You're loading the dice with your choice of words.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, February 9, 2009 12:22 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, and i actually think that maybe the cynics here are the people who are assuming that everyone's life is so drab and boring, that society exists out there as this inert thing, and which only they can inject some vibancy into. it sort of requires that you dehumanize everyone and turn them into mindless cogs in a grey machine (so that you can then proceed to show them the COLORS of life like it's a pepsi commercial or something). it reminds me of that part in the wasteland where the narrator is shaking his head sadly at all the similarly dressed business men crossing london bridge, and how i always want to yell: hey they're people, they have histories and families and friends and they're all different etc. you just want them to be faceless etc so you can feel special.

I am not opposed to laughing or smiling or noticing the world around me, I'm opposed to smug fucks who think I can't do it without their help.

I just want to say OTMFM!

it reminds me of that part in the wasteland where the narrator is shaking his head sadly at all the similarly dressed business men crossing london bridge, and how i always want to yell: hey they're people, they have histories and families and friends and they're all different etc. you just want them to be faceless etc so you can feel special.

so so so OTM

Finefinemusic - please explain the context of that pic to a fellow torontonian!

t s eliot was not a happy bunny.

i think people are definitely only projecting drabness onto others when they have massive egos making them believe that their world is a colorful wonderland and everyone else's is just so boring. basically what rent said.

it's kind of another thing that bugs me about certain ad campaign, where this monstrous, faceless corporations try to tell me that my pitiful little existence will never be improved unless i start driving a VW bug and listening to ELO

just a pantsless woman riding the subway in january, I think I googled "no pants subway torontoist" because I couldn't remember the actual event title :) There's a group called.. newmindspace? who organize events like this periodically (have also heard of a water balloon & a pillow fight at yonge-dundas square)

(two separate fights.. water balloon & pillow fight together sounds like a bad idea.)

ya - i've been to one of their things before.
always wanted to try capture the flag in the financial district!

that's the one I was trying to think of! I'd like to check that one out sometime too

it reminds me of that part in the wasteland where the narrator is shaking his head sadly at all the similarly dressed business men crossing london bridge, and how i always want to yell: hey they're people, they have histories and families and friends and they're all different etc. you just want them to be faceless etc so you can feel special.

yeah this was a very very good lesson for me to learn

yeah, and i actually think that maybe the cynics here are the people who are assuming that everyone's life is so drab and boring, that society exists out there as this inert thing, and which only they can inject some vibancy into. it sort of requires that you dehumanize everyone and turn them into mindless cogs in a grey machine (so that you can then proceed to show them the COLORS of life like it's a pepsi commercial or something). it reminds me of that part in the wasteland where the narrator is shaking his head sadly at all the similarly dressed business men crossing london bridge, and how i always want to yell: hey they're people, they have histories and families and friends and they're all different etc. you just want them to be faceless etc so you can feel special.

I think your building a mighty big strawman here. At least I don't see how wanting to shake up everyday routines a bit and cheer people up would automatically equate with thinking that these people are faceless non-individuals. I've taken part in a few performance type of things of this kind (though nothing of the size to block railway stations), and I can tell you that the point in them wasn't to show people how meaningless and dull their lives were, or how special we were. We merely wanted to do something a bit offbeat and fun which might also cheer up some people (and I think it worked). It's not like we thought we're above everyday dreary routines; routines are a part of modern life and it would impossible to live without them, but just the same it would be boring if those routines weren't (inadvertently or deliberately) broken at least once in a while.

What I'm calling "cynicism" here is the assumption that people who take in these sort of things must automatically be smug and elitist, and they must only do it for selfish reasons, when most of them probably are just regular people who heard about something fun happening and decided to attend, thinking it might be fun for others too. Of course there's some exhibitionism and smugness and selfishness involved (how many of us are above such things?), but I think people here are making cross exaggerations based on stereotypical, strawman ideas about these sort of "performance artists".

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

the assumption at work in this sort of demonstration is that people need / want / deserve to be cheered up / engaged / thrown off-balance / enlightened and that you're just the person to do it

Actually, I think most of the people attend this things because it's a way for them to have fun and to break their routines, and the "cheering others up" thing is just a secondary effect.

Anyway, I still don't see what's so harmful about these things... The way I see it, the people attending are having fun, some of the observers probably are cheered up, and the rest might just ignore or think it's stupid, but it not like it does any real damage to anyone involved. So if you add up the positive and negative sides the end result is still positive.

I think people here are making cross exaggerations based on stereotypical, strawman ideas about these sort of "performance artists".

i think it's more likely people here are thinking about actual real life nuisances they know, for example i am recalling seeing an annoying stilt walker i knew called andrew peering theatrically around a corner with mime paint on his face and his fingers splayed, trying to startle shoppers while his spindle-legged accomplices tottered about laughing subversively.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

maybe they should have been giving out hugs instead?

ugh, xposts

What I'm calling "cynicism" here is the assumption that people who take in these sort of things must automatically be smug and elitist, and they must only do it for selfish reasons, when most of them probably are just regular people who heard about something fun happening and decided to attend, thinking it might be fun for others too.

Tuomas, here's the simple breakdown.

If you decide that participating in "something fun happening" is more important than the inconvenience you're causing to other people, there is an unavoidable trace of selfishness in that. It's not the most horrible thing in the world, but it's certainly not generous: you're making a decision that your satisfaction is more important than other people's.

But maybe there's a good reason for it! So how do you respond when someone points out that you're inconveniencing people?

- If you say "I didn't realize they'd be inconvenienced," someone could justifiably say that this was dumb of you

- If you say "it was supposed to be fun for them, too," someone could justifiably say that this was presumptuous of you

- If you say "oh c'mon, it was only XX minutes' disruption," someone could justifiably say that this was smug of you

- If you say "I just wanted to shake up the gray dreary lives people are living," someone could justifiably say that this was elitist of you

etc. etc. etc.

I think the "free hugs" thing is actually one of the best examples of this kind of "street performance": it does shake up everyday habits a bit, but not in an exhibitionist way, it doesn't make a noise or cause anyone to be late from work, it doesn't force anyone to participate, but the people who do participate feel cheered up.

whatever everything you're saying here is just words until you acknowledge that "disrupting people's daily routines" amounts to disrupting their ability to EARN THEIR LIVELIHOOD.

many xposts

or GET BACK TO HOME TO THEIR OWN CHOICE OF FUN, in this case. I'm away from home enough as it is without some fuckwits deciding I need some of their own brand of fun to stop me getting on with mine.

(xx-post)

Nabisco, what you're saying is true only if you assume all of these things are only inconveniences and have absolutely no positive effect at all. If you would always follow those rules there would be nothing out of the ordinary happening on public places ever: no street musicians, no performance artists, no mimes, no jugglers, no parades, no carnivals... All of these things are inconveniences to some people.

whatever everything you're saying here is just words until you acknowledge that "disrupting people's daily routines" amounts to disrupting their ability to EARN THEIR LIVELIHOOD.

Er, how exactly? The railway thing was an exception, in most cases these sort of performances don't stop anyone from going to work or doing anything, people are free to stop to observe them or to go on on their way.

"stop to observe them" = traffic jamz, both automotive and pedestrian.

What's the point of this? Does it exist merely for college kids who feel that having as job is too gay or too smooth or too lower class or too black (or whatever) for them? Or is there something I'm missing?

youre not understanding what nabisco is saying, t-boz

no performance artists, no mimes, no jugglers

Add in "none of those dudes dressed as statues" and I'd totally vote for whoever had this in their manifesto.

Tuomas, re: street performers, I am going to assume you are xposting to like 3 hours ago, when we already covered that very clearly

no street musicians, no performance artists, no mimes, no jugglers, no parades, no carnivals... All of these things are inconveniences to some people.

Speaking as a juggler I have never inconvenienced anyone. O wait there was that time I was juggling fire at a music festival and dropped a club on someone's tent (no harm, no foul tho).

Also Tuomas if you look at the little bar at the top of your browser window you'll notice the "railway thing" is what we're talking about!!

Add in "none of those dudes dressed as statues" and I'd totally vote for whoever had this in their manifesto.

Especially when they're cheating by wearing sunglasses.

Every summer in the of center Helsinki there is this large band of Southern Americans playing new age Indian pan pipe music. Me and most of my friends think the music is bloody awful, but I still think the streets would be poorer if all the musicians and other performers would be driven off just because some people don't like them.

Also Tuomas if you look at the little bar at the top of your browser window you'll notice the "railway thing" is what we're talking about!!

Didn't this discussion move on public performances in general? At least there's a lot of general commentary in here.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

Speaking as a juggler I have never inconvenienced anyone.

How do you know? Maybe some people hate jugglers as intensely as people on this thread seem to hate performance artists.

Every summer in the of center Helsinki there is this large band of Southern Americans playing new age Indian pan pipe music.

This is not unique to Helsinki, and could probably also be added to the list of things I'd have up against the wall come the revolution.

Someone has taken to dramatic generalizations here.

Every day in my high school there is this large group of students dancing in the middle of nyc traffic. Me and most of my friends think the dancing is bloody awful, but I still think the streets would be poorer if all the dancers and other performers would be driven off just because some people don't like them.

Tuomas: Judging by when we last discussed it earlier this afternoon, upthread, most people here (bar Ailsa) are indifferent to workaday busking, but find it lame and self-congratulatory when groups of people disrupt social spaces to an extent that inconveniences others for the sake of their idea of what constitutes "interesting" or "fun."

(NB that came after the first part of this thread, where you seemed unsure how it was disruptive or inconvenient to people to have a train station be non-functional for an hour.)

I still think the streets would be poorer if all the dancers and other performers would be driven off just because some people don't like them

Yeah, would prefer to see them driven over.

That seems to be a trait you share with some of these people, Tuomas -- you keep ignoring the fact that there's a line between stuff that inconveniences people and stuff that doesn't.

(Being aware of and sensitive to this line is actually a fundamental part of politeness and society, by the way)

That seems to be a trait you share with some of these people, Tuomas -- you keep ignoring the fact that there's a line between stuff that inconveniences people and stuff that doesn't.

I do know this, but I also think the railway station thing is an exception. Most flashmobs and other performances of this type don't cause such a big inconvience, and can be ignored by everyday commuters just like buskers. What I'm trying to question here is the general opinion some people seem to have (this isn't the first time this issue is discussed on ILE) that these performers are smug elitists and actually worse than any other type of street perfomer, even when they're not blocking the traffic.

^ this. folks on both threads have expressed a special quality of sneering disgust with the assumed motives/character of the flashmobbers, a disgust that seems to have little to do with the degree of disruption caused

Um OR there was that art thing where people mingled all throughout Grand Central and then at a pre-determined time just STOPPED in place and held their positions for like exactly 2 minutes (or w/e). It DID look really cool but HONESTLY in the time they were stopped they were like two hundred flesh and blood obstructions for EVERYONE ELSE IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

the public hugging thing is terrible. they get aggressive sometimes! "you NEED this" they said to me once

T-Mobile should run an ad where a mob randomly siezes control of the means of production or something

I think where Tuomas is most wrong is in not admitting that the whole point of these disruptions is to be in highly populated public places with lots of visibility and even media coverage, that being visible and even purposefully disruptive on some practical level is the whole reason for assembling.

Otherwise why not have flash mobs in Red Hook in a deserted freight yard? In fact, please do that. From now on.

Also, I know many people who don't like the music buskers play at all, so it's an incovenience to them. A lot of people seem to think teenagers who skateboard on public spots are a nuisance too, and should be banished. What I'm trying to say is that in most cases what's considered incovenient enough to the public is difficult to measure, so I'd rather allow things that are incovenient to some but mostly harmless (and which sometimes have positive effects) instead of saying that nothing incovenient should happen on public places.

(xxx-post)

haha Laurel otm

see, you argue about how this isn't inconveniencing the public, but in fact it hinges entirely on the public from the point of view of the performer's gratification too.

What I'm trying to say is that in most cases what's considered incovenient enough to the public is difficult to measure

its not really as difficult to measure as you think--for one, skateboarding teenagers have never shut down a train station

except in the movie 'masterminds' starring patrick stewart

How many times do I have to say that shutting down a railway station is an exception? Yes, in that case it was easy to measure, but in most cases it's not.

TUOMAS, MOST FLASH MOBS ARE SHUTTING SOMETHING DOWN, FOR SOME AMOUNT OF TIME. An intersection! A department store! If enough people assemble it WILL matter! That's the POINT!

One particular group of performers disrupts me, and thousands of other commuters every day here in Sydney. Trying to catch the bus or train, we have to stop for them while they run past us. They are dirty, noisy, pushy and insistently aggressive if someone accidentally gets in their way. They are dangerous, and have hit several people I know. They slow down our journey to and from work by minutes a day. I'm talking, of course, about car drivers.

As far as I know flashmobs or other public performances don't shut down railway stations on a regular basis.

I don't have a statistical rundown of flashmob events to judge whether inconveniencing people is "exceptional" or not. But based on the examples I know of around NYC, and the ones we've discussed on previous threads, I would say that they are typically way more disruptive than the average street performer. (One clue is in the name: there are only so many ways to use a "mob" that isn't at least mildly disruptive.)

One of the last times people sneered at this was when a bunch of people walked around a Best Buy dressed like Best Buy staff, something that is absolutely nothing but inconvenient and disruptive.

I also don't think it's surprising that people would question their motives in ways that we don't with other types of street performers. They question their motives because of what a lot of these flashmobs actually do. A street performer does something like singing a song in an otherwise quiet place: this is pretty clear and straightforward. Something like the Best Buy stunt, though, really calls for people to question its motives! What is its point? And it's difficult to come up with any answers to that question that don't come off as lame, smug, elitist, presumptuous, etc.

I don't think it matters at all how much they inconvenience, what bothers me is that they claim ownership of public space and the attention of fellow users of said space with the condescending intention of making those user's lives a better place. Its a bit like taking somebody's money to buy them chocolate, wtf?

Tuomas' collected posts on this thread can best be explained as a logical flashmob meant to jar us out of our drab and dreary thinking logically about things day to day mental existence

new age Indian pan pipe music posts.

Whilst I mostly agree, they claim ownership of public space and the attention of fellow users of said space with the condescending intention of making those user's lives a better place could equally apply to local authorities and private businesses.

"In the process we bring excitement to otherwise unexciting locales and give strangers a story they can tell for the rest of their lives. We're out to prove that a prank doesn't have to involve humiliation or embarrassment; it can simply be about making someone laugh, smile, or stop to notice the world around them."

^^From the last paragraph of the station article. I know the disruption they cause is a good reason to hate them but personally the smugness is enough for me.

I don't mind buskers! I am not inconvenienced by panpipe bands or mimes or street performers or human statues, they just annoy me. This is not particularly relevant here, right enough, it's just a wee bugbear of mine.

many xposts

xpost, I think a lot of flashmob ideas are really fun ideas outside of practice. A friend of mine works in a shoe shop where they have the name of the shop written on the front of the uniforms they wear and STAFF written on the back. We always think it'd be really funny to make a t-shirt that said the name of the shop on the front and CUSTOMER on the back and go in and buy something. Of course in practice this would just be totally annoying.

all art asks for a public audience. and a great deal of commercial "art" insists on public visibility (billboards, signage, music, visuals of all sorts). as lame as flashmobbing may be, i respect the insistence that noncommercial uses of public space are just as valid. i mean these spaces are PUBLIC, right? the attempt to use this ordinary, endlessly renewable resource in a somewhat new way is, at heart, noble, even if the implementation of the impulse sometimes sucks.

i mean, every other shopper "disrupts" the grocery store when they're standing in line in front of you. every other car disrupts your use of the road in a traffic jam. every other asshole on the G disrupts my ability to find an empty seat in an unstinky car.

in comparison, the disruptions caused by flashmobs seem trivial, infinitesimal.

i really wish i could embed "el condor pasa" in this thread

if everyone could just leave this video playing the whole time you're reading this thread, that would be great

i mean, every other shopper "disrupts" the grocery store when they're standing in line in front of you. every other car disrupts your use of the road in a traffic jam. every other asshole on the G disrupts my ability to find an empty seat in an unstinky car.

Oh, I don't like any of those people, either.

http://www.musicobsession.com/Pictures/l/o/losincas402087.jpg

I don't think it matters at all how much they inconvenience, what bothers me is that they claim ownership of public space and the attention of fellow users of said space with the condescending intention of making those user's lives a better place.

You know what else does the same? Commercials, billboards, stores, shopping malls, etc. I think it's nice that at least some public space is claimed for non-capitalist use too.

I think it's kinda odd that people who try to make public places nicer for free are considered more suspicious than those who do it for money, like buskers.

(several x-posts)

yeah but a shopping mall or a billboard isn't going to try to hug you or park itself in the middle of your driving lane

I think the crux of your argument is the "make public places NICER" part. Who says these smug douchebags make it NICER?

comparing these things to billboards and shopping malls and annoying people in lines isn't helping your cause

people who try to make public places nicer

See, this is the big point people are trying to contend with you here, T-Dog. Not that either side can really know the motivations of the flash mobbers, which is why we judge their actions by the results instead.

also, people are actually in town to go shopping, not to get hugged.

A lot of the disgust probably also stems from the fact that doing weird stuff in an urban pseudo-"public" space (and re: NYC, Filene's Basement is not "public" in that sense) kind of steals people's attention in an asymmetrical way -- it's not the flashmobbers' fault, obviously, but there are lots of urban spaces where people's opportunity to just ignore what a mob is doing is necessarily limited. Flashmobbers know this, of course, and are kind of exploiting it. There's an element of the attitude that is not all that far removed from children doing that whole "I'm not touching you" thing.

Maybe a DDOS attack on Facebook would put them in their place.

Or a parcel bomb attack on the phone company. I'm good either way.

someone should flashmob a flashmob xzibit style

And re: "niceness" it does not make anything nicer or anyone's life easier for 50 people to be wandering around Best Buy in Best Buy uniforms even though they don't work there, just as a non-random example. It makes things worse, makes things work poorly, is kind of tense and freaky if you don't know what's going on, and is a perfectly justifiable reason to totally question the motives of the people who think it's a fun idea.

I think the thing that people are mainly objecting to is a kind of intrusion, this doesn't have to mean they get caught in a shut down station, it just means that random jerks who are feeling wacky can take it upon themselves to insert themselves into their lives because they feel like it or think it would be great to give said people a hug cos don't they need distracting from their lives?

I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail.
Yes I would.
If I could,
I surely would.
I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.
Yes I would.
If I only could,
I surely would.

Away, I'd rather sail away
Like a swan that's here and gone
A man gets tied up to the ground
He gives the world
Its saddest sound,
Its saddest sound.

I'd rather be a forest than a street.
Yes I would.
If I could,
I surely would.

I'd rather feel the earth beneath my feet,
Yes I would.
If I only could,
I surely would.

I think the crux of your argument is the "make public places NICER" part. Who says these smug douchebags make it NICER?

Who says buskers or billboards or street ads or shopping mall music or parades or whatever makes things nicer either? Like I said, it's quite difficult to measure these things, which is why I think all sorts of harmless public activity should be allowed to go on, for diversity's sake if nothing else.

it just means that random jerks who are feeling wacky can take it upon themselves to insert themselves into their lives

Do you think it's okay for companies with enough money to buy public space to insert into our lives then?

n/a is killing me softly

I don't think companies dumping pollutants is a good thing, I'm not sure allowing private citizens to do it would be in the interests of creating a balance.

itt the people droning on about both sides of flashmobs are the commuters, and the people posting pictures and youtubes and shit are the flashmobbers

I'd kinda just prefer a Sao Paolo situation

Haha Tuomas you do understand what "public" means, right?

I don't think companies dumping pollutants is a good thing, I'm not sure allowing private citizens to do it would be in the interests of creating a balance.

The problem is that any of these things are pollutants to some people, harmless to some, and cool to some.

really it is just an indication that twitter and iphones and facebook have great powers when it comes to getting a whole shitload of people to do the same dumb thing in a synchronized fashion.

yes, exactly, and that's a big part of what's cool about it. it's a new technology dipping its bare, disruptive toes in the unstill water of human society. therefore cool, especially in that the manifestation is unplanned (unplanned by the initial developers of the technology).

the objections (such as nabisco's insistence that bunches of ersatz bestbuyers are somehow threatening, creepy) weird me out. i've encountered a couple of similar situations (a mass nudity on the subway, and spontaneous production number in a produce aisle), and both times they made my day. i wish there was more of this stuff in my life. then again, i don't want random fuckheads hugging me, so i can see as how it might break the other way.

some dude came to a party i was djing at and thought it would blow everyone's mind if he got spontaneously naked but it was just kind of creepy and tbh the girls weren't impressed :/

the manifestation is unplanned (unplanned by the initial developers of the technology)

YEAH AND THEY ARE REALLY HEARTBROKEN THAT IT IS BEING USED THIS WAY

tuomas, i may have been strawmanning a bit waaay up there, but i think that attitude (that everyone else's life is a dull routine) is pretty common, and is what both motivates and justifies a lot of the stuff.

what you're not denying is the presumption that my idea of how i want to use public space is not as important as yours (if you're a flashmobber or whatever), to the extent that you'll engage in activities that impinge on my ability to use this PUBLIC space. how is that fair? are you really surprised not everyone would be swept up in some whimsical idea of a world where no one needs to get to work to earn earn money because hugs are free and the trains don't run?

the other thing is that the reactions on this thread are not out of some investment in having commercial use of space before public, obv., or any other overarching pro-capitalist/anti-craziness agenda. it's the simple fact that these people, or at least the things they do, are, very often, immature and very annoying.

also, to be clear, i am not talking about buskers. i like buskers.

I think I am going to stand around in public on corners with signs that say "Manners" and "Etiquette," to incorporate all my feelings on public performance into...a public performance. I'll quietly step out of everyone's way when needed.

i am no lover of best buy, but going in and completely disrupting the ability of a store to do business isnt some sort of clever commentary on consumerism, its called being a dick. or in this case, a flashmob of dicks.

I bet they were pretty indistinguishable from the normal krill-level jackasses who work there. Which just means they were volunteering not to get paid.

Years ago I was on a train platform, the train had been delayed, people were waiting and starting to get tetchy. Suddenly some guy starts singing opera - I mean really professional sounding. And that was cool, because it broke up what was otherwise a tedious experience.

i wish there was more of this stuff in my life. then again, i don't want random fuckheads hugging me, so i can see as how it might break the other way.

But unfortunately I think that the majority of these things are going to be random attention seeking fuckheads. And the more this kind of thing happens, the more likely it is that it will be smug annoying wankers who think they're being clever/outrageous/individual/"edgy".

So it comes to the question: How do we convince humans that no matter what effort they make, they're dull, boring bastards?

(NB I hate dicks and jackasses too.)

I think I could get over a load of my ethical concerns with this nonsense if it wasn't for the absolute rubbishness of its aesthetics values, which all seem to be very iPod ad indie music twee and which have this childlike dreamy wonder bull that completely contradicts the inherent aggressiveness of the action. If the action was presented as it is I don't think I'd be so bothered by it, but all this give me a hug when really its a confrontational bid for attention crap can fuck off

Its the latency of the aggression that bugs me, buried under layers of smug cuteness

(xxpost) Turning up at a station and re-enacting a TV commercial doesn't seem like much effort. I guess that the question people might ask themselves is "is what I'm about to do in public the result of skill and practice, or am I just trying to get people to look at me?"

i am no lover of best buy, but going in and completely disrupting the ability of a store to do business isnt some sort of clever commentary on consumerism, its called being a dick. or in this case, a flashmob of dicks.

If you read the description of that performance, they weren't "completely disrupting the ability of a store to do business". They wore similar shirts to the store clerks and hung around, and if some customers came to ask them for help, they tried to help them to their best ability. And when the security guards told them to leave, they did. I agree that it's not a very clever social commentary or anything, but it's not like they were doing any real damage to the store sales.

I think I could get over a load of my ethical concerns with this nonsense if it wasn't for the absolute rubbishness of its aesthetics values

^^^ OK am intrigued want suggestions.

Flashmob where a bunch of people release bulls into the crowd?

what you're not denying is the presumption that my idea of how i want to use public space is not as important as yours..., to the extent that you'll engage in activities that impinge on my ability to use this PUBLIC space.

but what if the disruption is practically nonexistent, trivial, unthreatening in any real sense? is it still so objectionable? i understand that society and public spaces only function properly when certain conventions are observed, but isn't there some room within that construct for experimentation, for play, for the unconventional? yes, every form of boundary-pushing is, to some degree, socially hostile, but do we really intend to therefore shun ALL forms of exploratory aggression? one of the most basic questions we're asked by society and in response to society is, "what are we allowed to do?" and, by inference, what are we not allowed to do? testing and pushing at these boundaries helps us define what society is, in effect who owns it and to what degree.

the tendency to shun any kind of social rule-breaking, though natural, seems pinched and depressing to me.

flashmob where everyone starts humming "el condor pasa"

Contenderizer everyone has already answered that a billion times on this thread, and the billion answers have all been no, nobody is saying you can't talk to people or sing songs in public

flashmob where everybody smashes themselves in the face with a tin tray at pre-arranged signal

but what if the disruption is practically nonexistent, trivial, unthreatening in any real sense? is it still so objectionable?

no

xpost exactly

yes

flashmob where everybody wears Noel Edmonds masks and t-shirts that say "CUNT"

flashmob where everybody storms the Bastille

flashmob where everyone shows up at a different time and location

flashmob where oh shit it's hard to keep this thread sfw

flashmob where everyone turns up at a railway/bus/tube station at a different time, buys a ticket, then travels somewhere, all without telling anyone else or going "look at me!!! look at me!!! look at me!!!"

I would like a flashmob that seeks to disrupt the herd mentality of flashmobbing, hopefully this would involve an army of burt stantons with pipes

nobody is saying you can't talk to people or sing songs in public

― nabisco

yeah, but we all know that already. so the degree of experimentation, risk-taking, boundary pushing involved is minimal. flashmobs don't have a similarly fixed place in the social order, so they are inherently more "aggressive" to that order. it's easy to say that they are therefore undesireable, to be shunned, QED, but i don't know that i accept this. the idea that social patterns should not be disrupted, should instead remain static, is the essence of conservatism. and it's a valuable POV, but i don't want conservative stasis-maintenace to be the only direction from which social pressure comes. i want people to be pushing out in new ways, too, disrupting and reshaping society as a result of the experiments that seem valid and useful to them.

within reason. everything within reason.

flashmob where everybody massacres the innocents

flashmob where concern trolls are the only ones posting on a thread

sadly most flashmobs are comprised of a bunch of nails all thinking they are hammers.

see this is where I disagree, its the timidity of this crap that bugs me. It doesn't even have the guts to be aggressive, its like as soon as you say "hang on now, that's really annoying" it goes "hey I'm only trying to bring sunshine in, you can ignore me if you want" when really its a territorial act to take over these spaces. So the reason is what pisses me off. Its this kind of half assed ad-copying rubbish where its just for shits and giggles and because we all have mobiles now.

xxxpost

(xxxxxpost) A flashmob - even one of 12,000 people - is a minority enforcing it's views on the majority. Social change happens when the majority of people agree on something, not because a minority force everyone else to do things.

Social change happens when the majority of people agree on something

Cite examples including relevant statistics plz

damn estela...um...nailed it with that post.

(xpost)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/ElectoralCollege2008.svg/349px-ElectoralCollege2008.svg.png

the objections (such as nabisco's insistence that bunches of ersatz bestbuyers are somehow threatening, creepy) weird me out. i've encountered a couple of similar situations (a mass nudity on the subway, and spontaneous production number in a produce aisle), and both times they made my day. i wish there was more of this stuff in my life. then again, i don't want random fuckheads hugging me, so i can see as how it might break the other way.

Yeah see the problem is wishing there was more of it in MY life. (Or any non-you person.)

Social change happens when the majority of people agree on something, not because a minority force everyone else to do things.

― snoball

so we only have rights and/or a valid POV when we're in the established majority? no! most ideas start small.

agree with plaxico about the timidity, which can be annoying, but would you really rather have full-scale aggression? a hippie putting a flower down the barrel of a guardsman's gun is, in truth, an aggressive act, but its lack of directly-expressed aggression does, in fact, tend to minimize any real threat or danger. would we rather that the hippie tried to rip the gun from the guardsman's hands? this might be a more "honest" act (with regard to admission of aggression), but i don't think it would be more socially useful.

Social change happens when the majority of people agree on something, not because a minority force everyone else to do things.

I don't think they are forcing anyone to do anything. Also, society is always a playground or battlefield where various minorities try to affect majority opinions. A lot of things have become acceptable for the majority because they were first lobbied by a minority - gay rights is a good example of this. Hence we whould allow a diversity of minority voices to be heard instead of shunning them because they're against "majority opinion" (which is often quite hard to deduce anyway).

Yay Obama but Obama votes = c. 70 million? Population of Good Luck, USA = c. 300 million

(xx-post)

Just to note that of you read the i.e. guys' stuff, they seem to take quite a bit of care not to disrupt people unduly, to encourage folks to be respectful, etc. When people haven't enjoyed their performances they seem to be genuinely upset.

^ yeah, i haven't encountered much, "ha ha square im freakin u out!" jerk-type attitude.

see the problem here is that both T and contenderizer are changing flashmob motivations to fit the argument. on one hand, this is just people trying to have their own blissful whatever and take us along for the ride, but when that doesnt work because we dont want to be taken along for a ride, suddenly it is all about societal change and reclaiming public space.

and groping boobs

such as nabisco's insistence that bunches of ersatz bestbuyers are somehow threatening, creepy

Hahaha I mentioned it once, which is hardly "insisting," but yeah, if I were the manager of a NYC Best Buy where a bunch of people were setting up around the store dressed like employees, I would be pretty certain these people were about to fuck up my life something fierce (and at least 5% of me would be imagining it ending with me gagged in the back room being asked to open a safe). And if I were shopping there I would kinda want to get out.

Just to note that of you read the i.e. guys' stuff, they seem to take quite a bit of care not to disrupt people unduly, to encourage folks to be respectful, etc. When people haven't enjoyed their performances they seem to be genuinely upset.

True. Also, I find it weird that people are using the "random guy hugging me" as an scary example, when (as far as I know) the "free hugs" thing is totally voluntary. Those people won't hug you unless you agree to it.

see the problem here is that both T and contenderizer are changing flashmob motivations to fit the argument. on one hand, this is just people trying to have their own blissful whatever and take us along for the ride, but when that doesnt work because we dont want to be taken along for a ride, suddenly it is all about societal change and reclaiming public space.

Could it be that - gasp! - these people various different motivations for what they're doing?

mostly the boobs tho

yes, the most common motivation is narcissism though. xp

most ideas start small.

various minorities try to affect majority opinions.

Flashmobs don't have political or social agendas. Neither do they have the persistence of purpose to affect change, because they are too transitory, and the members of the mob too self interested. Obtaining equal rights for a minority, or battling social injustice, is something that takes effort and dedication. These are not qualities possessed by a mob of attention seeking fuckwits.

Tuomas, earlier: most of them probably are just regular people who heard about something fun happening and decided to attend

Tuomas, now: these people various different motivations for what they're doing

tuomas = flashmob flipflopper

Leif.

i think this whole "they're shaking the status quo" argument is hilarious

I'm not sure there's an argument anywhere on this thread that isn't hilarious, to be honest, but I'm enjoying seeing how long it can go

"we're gentle creatures who are upset if you don't enjoy our art"

gtf off the sidewalk and get to a stage

gtf off the sidewalk and get to a stage

It's like you WANT them to form an improv troupe. Stop the madness, while it can still be nipped in the bud.

i'm willing to negotiate with these people who are either bringing capitalism to its knees or just out for a bit of fun, let's be cool. i forget which.

You can do both! At the same time!

oh cock off

T and contenderizer are changing flashmob motivations to fit the argument. on one hand, this is just people trying to have their own blissful whatever and take us along for the ride, but when that doesnt work because we dont want to be taken along for a ride, suddenly it is all about societal change and reclaiming public space.

― John Justen

i don't think it's wholly one thing or the other, and admitting this doesn't really change my argument. as far as i can tell, people usually do this for reasons that are both artistic and political, as an attempt to do something "good" - good for themselves & their friends/collaborators, but also good for for society in general (sure, a much dicier proposition, but hardly something we should dismiss out of hand).

and, and yeah, it's hard not to see in such behavior a kind of self-centered hubris, even an antisocial aggressiveness, but to focus those aspects as the crucial essence does seem a bit hostile and narrow minded to me. why not place primary emphasis on the attempt to have some fun, to expand and brighten the social moment?

p.s. i also like it when cities decorate themselves with "artistically" decorated fiberglass animals of this or that sort. i don't give a rat's ass about the art quality, i just like the temporary change in scenery and the fact that little kids seem to like them.

i think this whole "they're shaking the status quo" argument is hilarious

― omar little

i honestly think they are, and in a good way. not in a big way, but in a way that's valuable. understand that this is not the dominant view.

why not place primary emphasis on the attempt to have some fun,

Because the flashmobbers are having fun at the expense of other people's ability to go about their own business. The mob, inadvertantly or otherwise, is effectively saying "I don't care if I inconvenience you, I've had my fun"

I like that, too, Contenderizer. It's rather different, though.

the idea that social patterns should not be disrupted, should instead remain static, is the essence of conservatism.

yeah but how about we all disrupt our own social patterns when we feel like it, and if someone else disrupts mine i reserve the right to be annoyed (i don't think you're disputing that), and also we concede that some people might actively seek to maintain stability for any number of legitimate reasons.

the idea that social patterns should not be disrupted, should instead remain static, is the essence of conservatism.

some days i go to burger king instead of mcdonalds

i am def down with fiberglass animals

Because the flashmobbers are having fun at the expense of other people's ability to go about their own business. The mob, inadvertantly or otherwise, is effectively saying "I don't care if I inconvenience you, I've had my fun"

― snoball

i don't know that this is all that true. i mean, it's always going to be at least a little bit true, but does that mean that only certain people have the right to be in or use any given place? don't we disrupt other's lives simply by existing?

in the trainstation example, the degree of harmful disruption is obvious and extreme, but in most cases of flashmobbing that i've encountered/heard of, it's much less severe. and maybe the mob is simply saying, "i have just as much right to dance like a fairy here as you have to commute, to eat lunch, to buy groceries, or to walk your dog."

in a way, part of the objection seems to be that "mere art" has less right to use (and thereby necessarily to disrupt) public space than almost any other form of human activity.

it's a complete cant phrase, 'social patterns', as is 'conservative stasis-maintenace', 'social pressure', etc.

society never is in stasis. how, in any case, performance art disrupts the social order is beyond me.

that said, i'm totally okay with people being annoyed by it. to each, etc. in defending my support for this kind of thing, maybe i err in attacking those who don't. apologies if so.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zbccWJYAORo/SH7gWBDxjFI/AAAAAAAAAPU/eUQXHjv_Yaw/s200/neutral%2Bplanet%2Bpeople-%2Bfuturama.bmp

yeah but how about we all disrupt our own social patterns when we feel like it, and if someone else disrupts mine i reserve the right to be annoyed (i don't think you're disputing that), and also we concede that some people might actively seek to maintain stability for any number of legitimate reasons.

This is all true, but I think what Contenderizer and I are trying to say is that disrupting social patterns can be valuable if a society is to have multitude of diverse voices, and that it can also serve other purposes than merely satisfying some folks' egotism and exhibitionism.

Contenderizer's really shooting for the "freaking out the squares" thread, actually -- so far we've got the "transgression is inherently good and non-transgression is inherently conservative" argument, and also people who find many flashmobs annoying are just too "narrow-minded" to get down with the joy

xpost - He is now moving on to being Tuomas an hour and a half ago, pretending not to understand the differences between various methods of relating to other people via the use of thoughtful-sounding philosophical questions ... "don't we disrupt other's lives simply by existing?" See, it's all the same! So if someone shoved Contenderizer down a flight of stairs, would it really be all that different from the everyday burdens of, like, co-existing in society with Contenderizer, or like taking a seat on a subway that he would have sat in otherwise? It's all connected, man...

"i have just as much right to dance like a fairy here as you have to commute, to eat lunch, to buy groceries, or to walk your dog."

and i have a right to find that annoying, and you vice versa

in a way, part of the objection seems to be that "mere art" has less right to use (and thereby necessarily to disrupt) public space than almost any other form of human activity.

i guess ive come a long way since my kalle lasn-reading days, but this seems pretty reasonable. esp if the ostensible goal of the art is to disrupt, whereas to many most other activities it is incidental and hopefullt minimized for the sake of others.

xpost - Haha sorry, Contendo, you had just totally moderated your argument, never mind

I think what Contenderizer and I are trying to say is that pooing on people's front doorstep can be valuable if a society is to have multitude of diverse poos, and that it can also serve other purposes than merely satisfying some folks' need to poo

of course society is never in stasis. and people have given tons of examples how how flashmobbers do or might disrupt social order, both in practical terms (blocking entry) and more generally (assuming permission to impose certain sorts of "unexpected" experiences on others).

the phrases "social patterns", "conservative statis-maintenance" and "social pressure" were simply attempts to communicate ideas. if they didn't work, let me know how, and i'll try to clarify.

that re mark bronson

I think we're talking about social disruption that does no real physical or psychological damage to anyone. Shoving someone down the stairs is hardly comparable to flashmobs.

(x-post to Nabisco)

the best i.e. stuff is where they don't make any effort to keep the joke a secret -- i.e. where it's screamingly obvious that they're doing public theater. that and the dostoyevsky thing, which was awesome.

Congratulations, Tuomas, you have spontaneously developed some slight ability to distinguish between things that bother other people and things that don't! Awesome, we'll start from pushing people down stairs and work our way backwards, okay?

why are any of you bothering

with this thread, at all

Let's start with punching someone in the face. Is that rude?

For fun, gbx, geez, don't be so narrow-minded about the joys of life

contenderizer i think the main tension in this thread is that you're looking at this kind of academically, for its theoretically positive social effects (which potentially exist, but which i think in the case of some teenage facebook flashmob would be commensurate with the novelty of the ideals it represents, so: not much there), whereas the people "against" this are just looking at how, practically speaking, this shit is presumptuous, possibly threatening, and generally not really thought-provoking in any meaningful way (even though, at it's best, it potentially could be). there's not a direct opposition happening between these two sides.

i actually think the impulse to do this stuff can be good and maybe necessary, esp if it’s done in a spirit of non-aggressive inclusiveness, but honestly -- what is the point of a flashmob? really, bc i don't know. anything beyond “social” confusion for its own sake? and if that's it, i'd suggest that people are largely already confused about all sorts of things that actually matter to them*, so why do you want to add to that? like if it was for something higher ideal than their own enjoyment this would not be the first thing it occurs to you to do, right? the effort to achievement ratio is pretty low.

*I really suspect that a lot of what allows people to think this is a great idea is the assumption that the people they are inconveniencing are automatons that need to be awoken or smthg, when usually they have all sorts of more important things racing through their minds.

don't we disrupt other's lives simply by existing?

We're considerate to other people in the hope that most of them will also be considerate to us.

maybe the mob is simply saying, "i have just as much right to dance like a fairy here as you have to commute, to eat lunch, to buy groceries, or to walk your dog."
in a way, part of the objection seems to be that "mere art" has less right to use (and thereby necessarily to disrupt) public space than almost any other form of human activity.

But a railway station, or a mall, or a swimming pool, is not a public space. It's a space where the public are allowed in for certain implied purposes - travelling somewhere, shopping, swimming. Also implied is the assumption that your use of the facilities doesn't obstruct other people in their use of the facilities.
If this flashmmob had happened in Hyde Park instead of a railway station, probably no-one would have been bothered. But because of where it happened, it obstructed other people going about their every day business. And it's not the number of people in the mob. Never mind 12,000 people, 12 people can close a railway station, or at least obstruct enough people to cause a problem.

yeah, this is just one of those "issues" (<---LOL) for which any strenuous argument (for or against) equals you being an asshole

mobbin all the time, get over it SQUARES ---> ppl have real shit to do, f u asshole
gawd all these dweebs being dweebs, don't they have JOBS ---> life can be fun, f u asshole

cf critical mass

truly the godhead of flashmobs

rent totally, completely, 100% OTM. gonna post this anyway, cuz i already rote it:

pretending not to understand the differences between various methods of relating to other people via the use of thoughtful-sounding philosophical questions ... "don't we disrupt other's lives simply by existing?" See, it's all the same! So if someone shoved Contenderizer down a flight of stairs, would it really be all that different from the everyday burdens of, like, co-existing in society with Contenderizer, or like taking a seat on a subway that he would have sat in otherwise? It's all connected, man...

― nabisco

understand that you've retracted a little (thanks), but a lot of people are batting at this straw man. the comment about pooing on doorsteps, etc. that analogy treats any/all social boundary-pushing behavior as categorically unacceptable. it seems to suggest that anyone who fails to conform to a very rigorous set of social expectations deserves only to be hated.

and that's true, to some extent. i've admitted all along that inserting your art into public spaces (flashmobbing, grafitti, wearing crazy outfits, singing songs to random passersby, dancing in the public square) are in fact socially aggressive. they break rules, and those who break rules DO have to expect some people to object.

my argument is less about what other people should or shouldn't do, but how we (that is I, but sort of you, too) should view and respond to such intrusions. i'm arguing that it's "better", more humane, more socially productive, more good for society as a whole, to view and respond with a wide-eyed hippy-dippy tolerance, even encouragement. especially when people AREN'T damaging property or pooping on doorsteps. especially when the intent seems more creative than hostile.

but YES to gbx, the attempt to reduce this to oppostional stances is retarded (having been guilty of just that)

understand, re: snoball, that there are good and bad ways to do this. i've been attempting to defend the good (less disruptive)

and full disclosure: i generally side w/the flashmobbers on this stuff.

I think we're talking about social disruption that does no real physical or psychological damage to anyone. Shoving someone down the stairs is hardly comparable to flashmobs.

The impulse behind these events are troubling though. "A minority never feels more free than when it can force its will on the majority,"-type stuff. The fact that a bunch of young people can be disruptive and gain fame by doing something so simple and rude is the attraction. The motivation behind things like this isn't too much different than what happened when bored young people wanted to make Snakes on a Plane a hit movie for the sake of flexing their own cultural muscle.

^^^^ asshole

and an old fart, to boot

that analogy treats any/all social boundary-pushing behavior as categorically unacceptable ... and that's true, to some extent

Hahaha ARGH, dude, you are so totally missing the point here: I was actually mocking the way you keep talking as if that's true, as if any version of influencing public space must be categorically something or other. You and Tuomas have both been doing that. This is the kind of academic/theoretical stance Rent is talking about.

It's also weird, because it means totally eliding the fact that there are relatively clear social lines already in existence giving us very good clues about what's unnecessarily disruptive and what's totally cool and encouraged. (Most people absorb those lines pretty well, so if they feel like dancing in public, they think things like "well, the train station's a bad place, because we'll tie up everyone's commute -- let's try the park instead." You know, simple, practical, non-theoretical stuff.)

oh man i hope i never have to debate critical mass ever again, so tedious

being upset about missing your train/being late for work/whatever = fair play
worrying about the social implications of "young people" doing whatever these ppl did = asshole

xpost to cunga, not nabisco

haha, yeah dude. it's the worst. the debate, i mean. CM is fun and awful.

actually, i take it back

rent:

in my mind, idealistically, there are two primary types of motivations behind most flashmobs

1st is simply to do something, to create something. to author a thing of some sort on the social canvas. ideally a good something, a something that will cause pleasure to those who execute and encounter it, and will not greatly inconvenience the world. i'm in support of this, to the extent that it's handled responsibly.

2nd is a form of social/political protest. as gbx said, critical mass-style. this sort of activity actually seeks to disrupt, in order to make something visible and/or to instigate change. i'm in support of this sort of thing too, with the caveat that people who intend to disrupt & inconvenience others deserve all the negative feedback they get

i suppose there's lots of room for bleedover in the middle, and then there's plain old exhibitionism. for the most part, though, i'll refrain from judging motives too harshly...

i'm arguing that it's "better", more humane, more socially productive, more good for society as a whole, to view and respond with a wide-eyed hippy-dippy tolerance, even encouragement.

Yeah, but sometimes, you're just not in the fuckin' mood, you know?

gbx is just trying to recruit us all into going into a public space and collectively farting and being crazy

It's also weird, because it means totally eliding the fact that there are relatively clear social lines already in existence giving us very good clues about what's unnecessarily disruptive and what's totally cool and encouraged. (Most people absorb those lines pretty well, so if they feel like dancing in public, they think things like "well, the train station's a bad place, because we'll tie up everyone's commute -- let's try the park instead." You know, simple, practical, non-theoretical stuff.)

― nabisco

i understand that nabisco. what i'm trying to do is to defend actions that do threaten established boundaries WRT what is permissible and where. trainstation clogging exists at one extreme, but just getting a bunch of people in clown suits together in the park is at the other. i'm more concerned with stuff in between, the boundary testing. that's why i keep referring to aggressiveness. not because i think it's all that relevant, but because it is there, and other people keep foregrounding it.

sometimes, you're just not in the fuckin' mood, you know?

― Pancakes Hackman

oh, hell yeah

ok seriously, like look at this http://improveverywhere.com/2008/11/17/welcome-back/

they're just going out of their way to be randomly silly and *nice*. ok fine this is painfully twee, but if anything it has the *opposite* of edge.

damn, that last post (to nabisco) was nearly subliterate. yikes

what if lori was flying in for the funeral of her sister who had just died the night before unexpectedly xp

two primary types of motivations

Fair enough, but I don't think a flashmob is a good way of achieving either of those goals, because flashmobs tend to attract far more people who don't care about anything other than their own preening narcissism. Probably the guy who started the station Facebook flashmob had good intentions, but it quickly got overwhelmed by thousands of people who saw it as a chance to shout "look at me!!!"

*I really suspect that a lot of what allows people to think this is a great idea is the assumption that the people they are inconveniencing are automatons that need to be awoken or smthg, when usually they have all sorts of more important things racing through their minds

^this. anthem of flasmobbers:

Daylight dawns, you wake up and yawn - Mr. Clean
A piece of toast from the one you love most - and you leave
You catch your bus in the 8 o'clock rush,
And catch your train in the morning rain
Mr. Clean - Mr. Clean

If you see me in the street - look away
'Cause I don't ever want to catch you looking at me - Mr. Clean
'Cause I hate you and your wife
And if I get the chance I'll fuck up your life
Mr. Clean - Mr. Clean -
IS THAT SEEN!

Surround yourself with dreams, of pretty young
girls, and anyone you want, but -
please don't forget me or any of my kind
'cause I'll make you think again
When I stick your face in the grime -

Getting pissed at the annual office do -
Smart blue suit and you went to Cambridge too -
You miss page 3, but the Times is right for you -
And mum and dad are very proud of you

my argument is less about what other people should or shouldn't do, but how we (that is I, but sort of you, too) should view and respond to such intrusions. i'm arguing that it's "better", more humane, more socially productive, more good for society as a whole, to view and respond with a wide-eyed hippy-dippy tolerance, even encouragement. especially when people AREN'T damaging property or pooping on doorsteps. especially when the intent seems more creative than hostile.

But, see, I think that, for most involved, this is all about pushing the concept of "public tolerance" to see how far you can go. How disruptive and loud can you be before society finally shoves back and gets upset? It's usually creative only in the sense that any sort of "MAKE ME A CELEBRITY PLZ" attention-whoring and self-absorption is creative - and many times it is implicitly hostile to someone or something. There's a sort of neo-Dada strain in all of it.

asshole - and an old fart, to boot

Haha I'm young enough to remember when a lot of this type of "mass rudeness/crowding as performance art" games were restricted to when internet sites would meet up and they'd do similar things in public spaces. Thirty kids would go into a mall and start clapping in an Apple Store, obstruct public walkways, etc. It was a way to be rude to people and gain attention for yourself without having the courage to be too personal and individual about it. It was the feeling of anonymity and social detachment you get from being rude on the internet to strangers being transferred into the public realm. I was there...

http://www.uloc.de/screenshots/a/aabf02_hippie_homer.jpg

Hey, Marge, don't be late for the flashmob!

obv the best way to get the maximum happiness out to the common people would be to flashmob a cemetary right? those people are all so sad all the time.

im just trying to figure out if it were better if we joined a funeral and pretended to be one of the bereaved, or if just showing up without pants on or some sort of mass dance approach would be more effective

what would really be a mad jam would be to switch babies around in the hospital

that attitude is why people can't do nice things.

I think I'd respond with annoyance to most flashmob stuff, which as others have already said, violates the "don't fuck with other people" rule. Anything unexpected or WTF in a place like a train station isn't a good idea, at all.

That said, I'm kind of surprised that anyone who posts regularly to ILX would base an argument on the idea that their time is important and shouldn't be wasted. I mean, c'mon.

Also, what Abbott said (I assume ironically):

So it comes to the question: How do we convince humans that no matter what effort they make, they're dull, boring bastards?

That said, I'm kind of surprised that anyone who posts regularly to ILX would base an argument on the idea that their time is important and shouldn't be wasted. I mean, c'mon.

That's not really fair, there are plenty of us who go through cycles and are "busy as a bee" one moment and then playing the hurry up and wait game another.

Understood. Just trying to inject a little humility into things. i.e., very few ILXors are working multiple blue-collar jobs to support a family, and people in that position are way ahead of most anyone here in the "people whose time shouldn't be wasted" pecking order.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3584/fame11024qf7.jpg

obv i tend towards the hatorade side here, im not real big on theater kids, but just curious nabisco -- what do u think of ali g / borat / bruno?

sometimes i think fucking with people is funny. its also smug & assholish but ... funny

i mean, when ppl fuck with tuomas it probably disrupts his day in some sense

while i dont really think its funny to fuck w/ the poor best buy employees, part of me is like "wtf are people shopping in a best buy for anyway -- they're getting way ripped off if they're buying electronics"

I was actually mocking the way you keep talking as if that's true, as if any version of influencing public space must be categorically something or other. You and Tuomas have both been doing that.

Äctually, what I've tried to say is that I find it weird that certain public activities are being treated more critically than others, even if the amount of actual nuisance is about the same, merely because of what the perceived motivation behind these activities is. So, standing on the street corner playing an instrument and singing = good, whereas standing on the street corner offering free hugs = weird, creepy. I've tried to explain that I see the railway station thing as a bad example, because most of the times these sort of performances don't create nearly as big a disruption. And I do understand that many people find weird performances more disturbing than, for example, street musicians, because they've used to the latter and have accepted them as a part of everyday public life. However, I don't think this should lead to an attitude where anything weird and unusual (but harmless) taking place in public spaces should be seen as a bad thing, because an attitude like this will only lead to conservatism and social stagnation. It's like saying that artists should only do art that people in general find nice, because they might be disturbed by new, unusual types of art. Many forms of public behaviour were once seen as odd and unusual (Krishna parades or Gay Prides for example), but have now become accepted as part of urban life.

But, see, I think that, for most involved, this is all about pushing the concept of "public tolerance" to see how far you can go. How disruptive and loud can you be before society finally shoves back and gets upset?

I think you're exaggerating the motivation behind these things and the actual effect they have on the public quite a bit. If you, for example, read the Improveverywhere site, you'll find that most performances they arrange really aren't about "pushing the concept of public tolerance to see how far you can go".

Also, what's people opinion on candid camera TV shows? Aren't they just doing the same thing, i.e. disrupting people's everyday public routines with weird activities, only they're doing it mostly to provide laughs for the TV audience instead of some (however vaguely defined) artistic or political purpose?

Personally I think candid camera shows can be great, if the stunts they pull are imaginative and not particularly nasty or embarrassing towards their targets.

Many forms of public behaviour were once seen as odd and unusual (Krishna parades or Gay Prides for example), but have now become accepted as part of urban life.

Doesn't mean that we should uncritically accept a flashmob, or any other new form of public behaviour, as an an unequivocally good thing, or that it's right to claim that people who don't like them are simply "fun-haters" or "cynical".

god what is this place turning into? daily mail aspieville.

jesus people read what you've written. you sound like a victor freaking meldrew flashmob.

christ what a bunch of boring old tory public school farts.

cue shots of annoying d-bags culture jamming, TV on the Radio music, etc

People dancing in public I can take, but TVOTR, now that's annoying.

Äctually

Marcello - take a look back at some of your old threads, man.

i love how you guys are so GRRRRRRRRR and weren't even there. hahaha

'Stitched up like a kipped' (also known as expertly manipulated) by Tuomas's opening comment:

Just waiting for the negative comments from all the jaded cynics opposed to people having fun.

There's nothing more annoying that the 'I'm less cynical/more tolerant than you' meta-game.

Erm...Stitched Up Like a Kipper

http://www.sproutonline.com/sprout/i/programs/Preview/kipper.jpg

Doesn't mean that we should uncritically accept a flashmob, or any other new form of public behaviour, as an an unequivocally good thing, or that it's right to claim that people who don't like them are simply "fun-haters" or "cynical".

You're right, no one has to like these things or find any sense in them, but I would hope that people could accept them as a part or urban diversity, which in general is a good thing, at least opposed to an alternative where only a limited set of pre-approved public behaviour would be tolerated. (Especially since in a capitalist society a lot of public spaces are available only to those with enough money.) I'm sorry if I've sounded condescending in this thread, it's just that I'm kinda baffled how negatively people who I think are otherwise quite liberal seem to view this kind of public activity.

[have not yet read entire thread]

i accompanied a friend to something like this a few years ago, she was writing about it for a magazine - lots of dudes turning up in some shady neck of london at abt 6pm, and dancing in the market area listening to their ipods for an hour or so. i guess there were about twenty to thirty people who turned up, and they all seemed to have an ace time.

it was entirely not my scene, however, and despite half-heartedly agreeing on the tube down there to get into the spirit of things, i did not feel like dancing at all, and tbh felt INCREDIBLY EMBARRASSED by the whole phenom. this is at least 98% because i am repressed and uptight, obv. but also i just felt like all the dudes doing it just looked like asses. and i couldn't help but note that the 'locals' just stared at the dancers with utter disdain, and that the cultural gap between the 'locals' in this sketchy bit of london, and the dancers (who mostly seemed to be the upper middle class theatre-studies cliches referenced above), seemed to stretch even further as the event wore on.

i don't know. i felt like a total misery sad sack for not getting down and feeling the moment, but, to be honest, i found the whole thing retarded and not a little insulting to the surroundings. my friend totally adored the experience, however, and went on to attend further outings.

[would like to make it clear that i did not dance a single step, and retreated to the sidelines with the 'locals' (who were much more my type of peeps, background-wise) within seconds, and did my best to pretend i wasn't 'with' the dancers, not unlike that dude who denied jesus those three times in the bible]

haha

Marcello weren't you the one who started frothing at the mouth over an airport being shut down by a protest over a tiny little thing like climate change? I mean, I agree this isn't in the same league of importance as dancing around listening to yr ipods and recreating an advert, but its still a better reason for causing disruption.

I think the point that seems to bother people is not even that they use this "public space" (remembering that public space is in itself a construct with its own boundaries) but that their claims for it are so innocuous and ineffectual. The motivation behind this shit is just a bit of attention seeking "haha everyone thinks we're mental."

I mean, what are these idiots trying to get across. If their motivation was about the reclamation of these spaces, if they at least acknowledged the disruptive motivation of this behaviour, I could be a little bit more sympathetic to them. Instead this seems to be about forcing an audience. Also, the fact that it takes so easily from advertising, even before this flashmob inspired by an advert inspired by flashmobbing trainstation shutdown, it seemed to have this bogus aesthetic borrowed from commercials where people "imagine" shit anyway. Its got this fake, namby-pamby non-transgressive aggressiveness. A bankruptcy of actually wanting to say anything but a huge interest in saying it as bloody loudly as possible.

Its the mediocrity that bugs me.

A bankruptcy of actually wanting to say anything but a huge interest in saying it as bloody loudly as possible.

― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:29 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

treu

ilx culture jamming would presumably involve marcello standing in a branch of clinton cards screaming at the staff for not stocking the new derek bailey lp

that's not culture jamming, that's culture full stop

"new" derek bailey lp

if you want total objectionable stopping people from getting to/from work stuff then have a go at stupid scared tfl for taking all the buses off last monday because they were shitting themselves that ppl would sue them.

also sloanies pissing abt in an airport trying to turn the clock back to the middle ages are totally right to be objected to.

but flashmobs in liverpool st? wtf. it's fun. who cares whether it's hype or not? if you just want an ordinary, ordered, "appropriate"/"acceptable" life where all the trains run on time and you get back to yr nice little dormitory in time for corrie then go back to whatever provincial shitheap you sprang from. this is london. this is why people brought up in provincial shitheaps want to come here, dream of coming here. quit whining and have some fun.

and before anyone else brings up me re. whining abt the elephant in the streets: i liked the idea but the streets are way too narrow. it would work somewhere like lisbon where you can walk everywhere but otherwise put it on the south bank or similar.

You whined about the elephant in the street? Good god.

The elephant in the street was the elephant in the room

"new" derek bailey lp

I'm sure someone somewhere's putting a new one out

the other thing i went on abt was the pedestrianisation of oxford st on the saturday and the march to/from trafalgar sq on the same day. totally stupid. it should have been either/or. comes down to proper organisation dunnit.

consistency isn't really your thing then

I think a lot of flashmob ideas are really fun ideas outside of practice. A friend of mine works in a shoe shop where they have the name of the shop written on the front of the uniforms they wear and STAFF written on the back. We always think it'd be really funny to make a t-shirt that said the name of the shop on the front and CUSTOMER on the back and go in and buy something. Of course in practice this would just be totally annoying.

This would actually be great, IMO.

Marcello how about the flashmob going by the name of 'TfL' who shut down the WHOLE CIRCLE LINE for the ENTIRETY of last weekend? Outrageous!

i mentioned tfl eight posts ago. do try and keep up.

marcello carlin has always struck me as a guy who knows how to have a good time

Lisbon is harder to navigate on foot than Central London. I love the place but there are huge steep hills everywhere and if anything you're more reliant on buses and trams. At least in London you can cut underground.

The other flashmob thing I remember seeing online that I thought was awesome was the coordinated dance (or something similar; maybe they were spelling words?) that happened in a bunch of store windows; I think they only got through about 30 sec before a few of them were yanked by security but the overall impact was pretty impressive (largely, IMO, because it required effort to put together and was minimally invasive in its execution, yet still interesting and arresting).

That one was done by Improve Everywhere too:

http://improveverywhere.com/2005/03/19/look-up-more/

And yeah, I think it's one of the best examples of how to do this kind of thing, because it didn't really disturb anyone's daily routine in a serious way, most people who saw it probably thought it looked cool, and if anything, the store it took place in just got positive publicity out of it.

I think a lot of flashmob ideas are really fun ideas outside of practice. A friend of mine works in a shoe shop where they have the name of the shop written on the front of the uniforms they wear and STAFF written on the back. We always think it'd be really funny to make a t-shirt that said the name of the shop on the front and CUSTOMER on the back and go in and buy something. Of course in practice this would just be totally annoying.

This would actually be great, IMO.

This is actually the T-shirt equivalent of "Hey, I'm X and I'll be your server"/"Hi, I'm Y and I'll be your customer." Conceptual dad joeks.

(And they're arranging the next event in a park - see, they've learned something!)

From the article:

The success of the event has prompted Crazzy Eve to call for another silent dance at Trafalgar Square in central London on February 13. A group has been set up to organize another one at Liverpool Street Station a week later.

FYI: Trafalgar Square: not a park. Liverpool Street Station: Also not a park.

This Is London

WE ARE LONDONERS

like no one ever organises anything in trafalgar square

Well, at least it's a square, so they're not probably blocking public transport there. But I agree that arranging an another railway station event after the previous one is not smart.

(xx-post)

This is actually the T-shirt equivalent of "Hey, I'm X and I'll be your server"/"Hi, I'm Y and I'll be your customer." Conceptual dad joeks.

Yeah, but this one is actually funny!

it's kinda boring if they're just going to do it at the same station all the time. why not organise a rota? do victoria instead. piss off all the brighton pseudo-trendies.

But first make sure Julie Burchill's in the station

I thought the flashmobbers were all psuedo-Brighton trendies?

Pseudo-Brighton = Hove?

that's terrible jay-z slander!

They should do one at Marylebone. No one uses that shit.

COCKFOSTERS

I'm a quasi-trendie from Hassocks and I'm confused about which people are good, and which are bad.

Quasi good, pseudo bad

Actually wait I'm a hipster from Keymer.

I am against this whole thread.

However, this...

They should do one at Marylebone. No one uses that shit.

This I would LOVE to see.

But that's the Aylesbury line! How would Marillion get home?

Even if they don't, plenty more fish in the sea.

But that's the Aylesbury line! How would Marillion get home?

There's always that floor in Belsize Park for them to kip on

I'd have had a lot more respect for these geeks if they'd actually done it somewhere totally... random. I mean, flashmob at, say .... Perivale. Now *that* is art. Flashmob at Peckham Rye... wait, that is actually an actual piece of art, isn't it.

Put some more effort in, people.

Are there prog rock flashmobs?

Yes were a pretty flash mob

difficult to boogie in 5/4 time :(

I'm not an active InterWeb user (I've never owned a computer), so you won't see me here too often. Oh, and I do have strong political views (I'm an anarchist/vegan/conscientious objector), but I never preach. I guess that's it.

-― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 27 March 2003

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Is it surprising that people change in 6 years?

not as much as how much they don't

In response to Tuomas's (and Marcello's, it seems) surprise that people aren't more receptive to flashmobs, I think there's a healthy instinctive wariness of crowds and mobs.

Crowds are odd things: people lose a sense of their individual responsibility in a crowd, or even their own views if they are swayed strongly enough.

thank you desmond morris.

Well yeah, I guess years of experience with political demonstrations has made me less wary of crowds. It's not like there's anything intrinsically evil about them, and being part of them can also be a liberating, exhilarating experience. Take Gay Prides for example, where the mere existence and visibility of the crowd is one of their main points, when gays and lesbians have for so long been denied public visibility and public community. But I do understand that in the postmodern, individualist society many people tend to be suspicious of crowds, and sometimes for a good reason. (Though certain forms of crowds and mass behaviour still seem to be socially accepted, like sports gatherings for example.)

thank you johnny morris

Thank you, Morrissey.

Sarah Jane Morris to thread?

The crowds thing is a red herring. The reason people are reacting so negatively to this is because it shut down Liverpool St station for no reason.

http://praxis.c8.com/catalog/images/a120-co.jpg

What about the people who react negatively to these thing in general, not just this one thing? Based on this thread there seems to be quite a few of them.

What about them? Who cares about them?

Ultimately, the big problem with flashmobbing is the same big problem as everything else; it starts out as something that requires thought, effort, and coordination, comes across well because of said thought, effort, and coordination, then gets glommed onto by people who don't think as well, don't put in as much effort and can't coordinate for shit and gets ruined. FIN

I like your binary opposition of crowds vs. post-modern individualism

Thanks.

Anyway, I don't think anyone's answered my question about various candid camera TV shows. Since they do pretty much the same thing as the other public performances discussed here, why are they treated less negatively? Or are they?

I never cared much for those prank-type shows personally.

Not sure I've ever seen one that has disrupted mass transit, or been as unimaginative as a bunch of people dancing.

otoh I have seen some pretty fucked-up humiliating stuff.

I never cared much for those prank-type shows personally.

I did a bit, but then humiliating people went mainstream and I lost interest

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04192008/photos/tv049c.jpghttp://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00427/snn3101gx1280_427945a.jpg

Last time I looked, humiliating people on camera for cheap lols wasn't considered to be performance art, a political statement or MAKING HISTORY RIGHT HERE. It's something that goes on crap TV channels on a Saturday evening between the football and the pub.

Some of Beadle's work was brilliant

One one hand it was brilliant...

I think candid camera pranks are pretty much like flashmobs and other public performances: when they're well thought out and not too aggressive towards their targets/witnesses, they can be great fun, but when they're unimaginative and too humiliating/disruptive, that's just sad.

Last time I looked, humiliating people on camera for cheap lols wasn't considered to be performance art, a political statement or MAKING HISTORY RIGHT HERE. It's something that goes on crap TV channels on a Saturday evening between the football and the pub.

Yet for some reason people tend to be less critical towards them. Why is the motivation behind these acts considered more important than what actually happens? And why is an artistic or political motivation less suspicious than sheer commercialism?

Sorry, I was meant to write "more suspicious", not "less suspicious".

They're totally old hat now, aren't they? It's the sort of thing I assume "Europeans" enjoy, like circuses and mime artists and dancing bears

no the bear needs to be driving a small car

And dictating the shape of our bananas. And abusing their children in cellars. (xpost)

lol I was about to say "that's one busy bear!"

Well, he can't be dancing all the time

did Guy Debord ever make it to thread

Distracted en route by a juggling unicyclist

(btw I meant to say this before but A+++ to ledge's "speaking as a juggler" post; never stop juggling)

Just don't do it in my presence

"Speaking as a Juggalo..."

Go for the juggler

did anyone talk about how there have already been cell phone ads attempting to exploit the flashmob trend for several years? like that one where a bunch of crazy kids organize an impromptu grocery cart race in the supermarket with their awesome phones?

the whole "Pass it on" bullshit

with the pillowfighting

yeah n/a, that was mentioned either upthread or in the related "freaking out the squares" thread (as was the pillowfighting IIRC)

ok, just trying to keep this hilarious shit going without actually having to read it

good call, if I could unread it I would

i think i got out just in time

Well, at least it's a square, so they're not probably blocking public transport there. But I agree that arranging an another railway station event after the previous one is not smart.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:52 AM (4 hours ago)

see this right here is the hilarious tuomas aspect of this whole argument. because you have decided that there is some altruistic/artistic aspect to this whole thing, you believe that this is some reflection of poor judgement and bad decision making. logical people who think about things see it as yet another indication that these people don't give a fuck about the impact they have on others, and in fact enjoy the idea that they are disrupting them.

Note: this repeated method of argument is also why lots of people (like me) think you are a troll.

to be fair, you might just be dumb as a box of hammers. or twelve.

twelve boxes of hammers?

Four calling birds, three French hens, two turtle doves, and a bar fridge in a belfry.

I don't know, don't ask me, I have a giant project to do that I can't focus on at all.

oh hey, me too

let's meet up in a train station and ostentatiously finish our respective projects while wearing heron masks

Grand Central OK w you? Say around 6pm, that's not a busy time for commuters, is it?

Can't move in stations, bloody heron addicts everywhere

kids are all about the kite-amine these days bro

coke-atiel

""

blimey! this thread hasn't gotten really long!

We need to find out where the next flashmob is, and all go again and act outraged. Or maybe we should organise an "outraged by flashmob flashmob"...

^^^^^ this

A swarm of people flooding Trafalgar Square to complain about the flood of people flooding Trafalgar Square BEFORE THE ORIGINAL FLOOD GETS THERE would be excellent!

Flashmobbers descending on Trafalgar Square were met with a note that said "Flashmob cancelled due to lack of penis size."

And the outraged people wouldn't film the event or take pictures or tell their grandkids, or brighten anyone's day. It'd be like all the people with V masks at the end of V for Vendetta.

http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/sneed_flash.jpg

NSFW ^

Sorry, didn't notice the nipples at first... officer

SIR, YOU BASTARD

That's a totally different kind of flashing.

If you were reading that book on a train, you could easily conceal the nipples with yr thumb.

Flashmobbers descending on Trafalgar Square were met with a note that said "Flashmob cancelled due to lack of penis size."

this is genius. imagine if you could manage to rent a billboard (or a ticker perhaps) overlooking a flashmob meet - the day of you put the message up "douche-bag convention" or "micro penis support rally" etc

what would be genius would be a bunch of people who were late for work on Monday descending on Trafalgar square with assault weapons

Assault weapons, no. Disintegrator guns, yes.

this is london. this is why people brought up in provincial shitheaps want to come here, dream of coming here. quit whining and have some fun.

― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:11 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol, really? THIS is why ppl move 2 ur shithole city? and you're proud of this???

Dude, it's Marcello.

i actually have no idea why people come here other than for work

A really big Top Shop.

The rest of Britain is shit?

booing eboue

i actually have no idea why people come here other than for work

― O Supermanchiros (blueski)

there, fixed!

blueski has no idea!!!!!!!!!!!! lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin)

well i should hope so!

http://www.micaelita.com/historytoday/Assets/images/httitle1.jpg

Flashmobbers: The ugly, twee, silly little children of social disobedience

I might change my opinion just so as not to be in agreement with Vice

lol I had that same reaction

i think the vice offices could use a little flash mob themselves

Everybody's rappin' like it's a commercial
Acting like life is a big commercial

Stay classy, Chicago.

Good luck usa

jesus fucking christ

The Snuggie™ Pub Crawl Team:
Michael Gallagher - Venue and charity details
Dan Kuthy - Marketing and promotions
David Barnes - Media and web development

Snuggie Pub Crawl coming
By Vikki Ortiz | Tribune staff reporter
1:48 PM CST, February 13, 2009

Like many others who've seen commercials for the Snuggie--"the Blanket with Sleeves!"--on TV, David Barnes and Dan Kuthy were fascinated.

The Chicago 20-something-olds chuckled at images of a man wearing the monk-like coverlet so he could more freely munch on popcorn, a woman being liberated by the Snuggie as she talked on a (cordless) phone, or – perhaps best of all – a family high-fiving while wearing the garments at an outdoor sporting event.

And then Barnes and Kuthy decided to Snuggie one better.

"We thought, imagine the vision of 1,000 people walking down Clark Street wearing Snuggies -- this is what we wanted to make happen," said Kuthy, a 23-year-old Lincoln Park resident and co-organizer of the Snuggie Pub Crawl planned for downtown Chicago on March 21.

Less than a week after the launch of www.snuggiepubcrawl.com, Barnes and Kuthy have e-mail addresses from more than 450 people interested in wearing the $19.99 Snuggies -- buy one, get one free, along with a free reading light -- for a blanket-covered, bar-hopping adventure.

"This is so wrong, but it feels so right," one commenter gushed on the Web site.

Barnes and Kuthy, who both have full-time Internet marketing jobs in Chicago, knew Snuggies were gaining cult-like status before they came up with the pub crawl concept.

One of many You Tube parodies of the Snuggie commercial dubs it "the blanket that will ruin your sex life" and "turn you into a complete shut-in that never leaves the house." A Snuggie Fan Page on Facebook had more than 12,700 friends as of Friday. It's also creating a buzz on Tweeter, Yelp and Digg.

Barnes and Kuthy hope to strike a deal with the Snuggie manufacturer to provide blankets for sale at the pub crawl. They say they'll donate the proceeds to an orphanage in Tanzania.

If they pull off this year's event, Barnes and Kuthy want to make the Snuggie Pub Crawl an annual outing.

"It'll be our little mark on history, I suppose," Barnes said.

this is honestly the worst case against american culture i've seen

or the best case against i guess - the worst case of american culture, or something

how long did it take the snuggie to jump the shark? 3 months?

its not as bad as slavery

this guy i was friends with in high school keeps putting stuff on facebook about shit like this, like some giant pillow fight in san francisco

all they have left to do is drape themselves in bacon and we can call it a day

waiting for a mass suicide to finish this off for good

Haha the Snuggie one is suspiciously pro-Snuggie, yo. On the plus side, America is poised to perform wonderfully if the world ever drifts fully over into an irony-based economy.

Haha this'll sound hateful of me but can I say that I am generally against pub crawls in large cities? I know most owners can't help but be relatively friendly toward them, but there is nothing worse than being part of a bar's ordinary patron group when suddenly ... three dozen loud and extremely drunk people are going to crowd into the place, creating 20 minutes of havoc and non-service and generally behaving the way you would if you were drunk in a bar but were planning on leaving in 20 minutes anyway.

(The last time I was treated to that it was a bunch of English people in a too-small bar, including dudes singing songs who didn't find it at all funny when I requested "Take Me Back to Dear Old Blighty," and an adult English person who seriously told me that it wasn't until she traveled the world a bit that she realized that not all English people liked Thatcher (???).)

i had a very negative experience with santacon

^^ she also asked me "how can you read in here?" -- umm I could read because it was pleasant an un-crowded before you and your 40 hostelmates came by! Remember how you weren't always here?

lollllllll

S.F. may crack down on 'flash mob' antics

i hate these things, but sentences like:

They are organized via telephone text messages, Web sites like Laughingsquid.com and eatbrains.com, and just old-fashioned word-of-mouth. They often have no identified leaders or sponsors.

and:

But he acknowledged that such conformance would be contrary to the flash mob's decidedly decentralized, anti-bureaucratic principles. Kern said Rec and Park does not even know how to contact the pillow fight's anonymous organizers.

A series of e-mail and phone inquiries from The Chronicle seeking comment from pillow fight organizers went unanswered.

got me fantasizing about these things as a way of training Americans for some kind of eventual sci-fi future resistance movement.

The silent rave in Glasgow Central was stopped by police so they had a conga line on Buchanan Street. I'm watching this with sound off and I don't think I'll bother watching it with sound when I get home.

raychall3 (1 day ago)
i don't care wt any of the h8ers say. this was awesome.ther was so many diffrent kinds of ppl ther n we all just hd such a laff.

JackyC14 (1 day ago)
I WAS THE ONE WHO YELLED UNDERGROUND!
i take all credit for that bit

weundefeated (21 hours ago)
fuk off me n mitchell at the front fukin led th whole fing so jus fuk off

strax (1 day ago)
dont be a prick

BethySniper (1 day ago)
let's go fucking mental, let's go fucking mental..
nananana! nananana!
i'm in this! haha. this was actually class.

Chrisy9119 (1 day ago)
WOOOP, does anyone have a vide of down the station?

wrightj1 (23 hours ago)
that 1 got stooped

JEMMAHAIN (1 day ago)
you can see me in this at like 2.47 :-j
this was amazing <3

verstapen (1 day ago)
haha u see me like 20 times in this one fucking well good

WELL GOOD

a silent crowd on buchanan st? hahaha riiiiight

i hate when UK ppl say "fing" instead of "thing"

im on dis fing no hype lol

you try being raised as a chimney sweep

hope every other person in that line got pick-pocketed

Surrealist rut-shaking art happening qualities of "silent rave" called into question by participants' inability to stay silent and stop with the look-at-me screaming for ten seconds

(sorry, watching that thing has made me come over all middle-aged Daily Mail. ILLITERATE MIME-YOUTH FILMED KICKING SOCIETY INTO GUTTER AND ENJOYING IT)

i hate when UK ppl say "fing" instead of "thing"

i hate it when ppl write 'say' instead of 'write'

RE: that youtube video - Fucking bawbags!

i'm ashamed to say that when I was reading about this bullshit flashmob shutting down the station in London I had thought that Glasgow wasn't quite poncy and shit enough to have that kind of thing. How wrong I was.

Don't think the Glasgow lot were exactly poncy.

I'm not going to spend seven valuable minutes of my life watching that jism, but a quick swatch at the 2'40"-2'50" mark suggests these are not exactly the hardest cases my beloved adopted city has to offer.

I'm intrigued as to what the nederati would have made of it, mind.

http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/03/18/who-cleans-up-city-fun/

Message: flashmobbing is not only annoying, but racist too.

The exclusive 4 minute extended version of the moment 13,500 people spontaneously sang Hey Jude together in Trafalgar Square.

Somebody doesn't know the meaning of the word 'spontaneously'.

I think I would have killed everyone in reach if I'd been there, I fecking hate that song.

Yep, it was Hey Fuckin' Jude for whole time I was battling my way through the crowds at the back, in front of the National Gallery, en route to Charing Cross. The strangest thing was hearing little pockets of tourists, well away from the main throng, joining in around me. Next time: 13,000 synchronised street mimes, painted silver.

Oh, and there were placards at the rear of the square saying something like "by being here you agree to be filmed and possibly used in an ad campaign; if you don't wish to have your image used, make yourself known to the workers in day-glo jackets". Or, alternatively, just curmudgeonly shove your way through with a face like thunder, and they won't use you anyway.

HOLY SHIT:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8955/heyglitter.jpg

that doesn't look like him!

The pic below the headline kinda does... the frame from the vid looks more like David Bellamy

these things are the enemy of humanity and everyone involved deserves riot police and swine flu combined

t-mobile can suck it, frankly

surely that's jon voight?

do those microphones actually work?

It's Bill Oddie 10 years from now (xp)

too clean.

Kenny Rogers?

no, no, definitely voight- the eyes have it

saw the ad last night, awful worse than i even imagined.

I think I would have killed everyone in reach if I'd been there, I fecking hate that song.

Same here. Most of my objections to flash mobs are aesthetic -- too fey and cutesy.

i think it's Captain Birdseye back from the dead/belly of the Kraken

Can that dude sue for being called Gary Glitter?

Only if it was rhyming slang.

>:(

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=73352262682&ref=nf

"This was from Ole Miss.... We could do SOOOO much better, Mizzou! "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c

¯\(°_o)/¯

Just waiting for the negative comments from all the jaded cynics opposed to people having fun.

― Tuomas, Monday, February 9, 2009 5:16 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

These people are giant dorks.

That's not a flashmob, it's an advert filmed on the cheap.

if drama fags ruled the world