The World Cup Thread (Do not read if you hate football obviously)

Argentina or Spain.

Italy, Argentina or France to win. Owen Hargreaves and David Beckham to be England's stars. Vincenzo Montella to get the Golden Boot.

Stevo sticks his neck out with eternal underachievers Spain!

Perennial underachievers ronan but if they can finally get their act together they've the makings of a World Cup winning side. For pure quality and technique Spanish football has overtaken Serie A over the past few seasons. Their top clubs have enjoyed success in Europe, and in Diego Tristan and Raul Gonzalez they have two of the best forwards in the world.

They will miss their keeper Canizares. He's just torn a cartilage in his right foot when a bottle of cologne fell on him whilst he was in his bathroom!

I expect them to cruise comfortably past Slovenia, Paraguay and South Africa in the first round.

Here is aWorld Cup Spread Sheat for fellow football anoraks wishing to track the results.

Italy could win, but no one will support them (except Italians) if they get into the final. They always just go into their cynical soak up the pressure routine once they get a goal. France will do well, but Barthez and Desially (sp?) could be there weak links this time around. Brazil? I'm not sure about, they only just managed to qualify...is Ronaldo any good these days? What's up with Rivaldo? Korea will do better than Japan. Argentina? Do they rely on Batisuta? He's had a terrible season. England...have three hard games, and then they might have to play France, best player will be Michael Owen.

If England don't win it. I'd like Spain to win.

State of pitches (Teddy was going on about the grass being too long), heat and refereeing could be deciding factors this time around.

Argentina, con la ayuda del mano de dios, is gonna piss all over your little seeesters.

The Hand of God is currently going through rehab again; I think you have to place your trust in the Lion's Mane and the Bald Bastard. ;-)

you think the hand of god belongs to one communist-loving cocaine sniffing fat man alone? No sir, you are mistaken - we have a nation full of them ready to whip your malvinas-stealing buttocks.

Los argentinos cabrones van a tomar en el culo. La taza sera brasileña o portuguesa. Geoff, estas marcado tambien, maldito argentino

Do Aregentina rely on Batistuta? He's not even likely to make the team. Still, they have several players who've been in poor form lately; France are sticking with a good few who look well past their best; Spain's best goalkeeper can't even hold an aftershave bottle; Italy will be too negative; England only have a few good players; Brazil have been hopeless for the last few years. The conclusion is clear: nobody is going to win the World Cup. More seriously, it looks kind of open to me - a bunch of strong sides, but none look tremendous or dominant. A few key players hitting their best form at the right moments is perhaps what will make the difference. My tip: Crespo winning the Golden Boot, Veron being a major star and Argentina just beating Italy in the final.

one communist-loving cocaine sniffing fat man alone?

Mike Tyson's not *that* fat.

I approve of the Geoff/Chupa war beginning here. Time for all niceties to be lost as we understand how Brazil and Argentina really regard each other -- the football enemy!

Ronan: great though Motson and Lawro both are (none enjoy them more than I do), I found the footy-songs segment today very poor.

Argentina to win, OK. Italy are said to be a good bet. England will not make it out of their group.

I think we should have an UNDER-21 thread!! England might do well in that.

I was going to start another thread to discuss this, but then thought it silly: WORLD CUP VIEWING HABITS. What are folks going to do? There's never been a competition held so far east before, so the kick- off times for fans in Europe and the Americas are a little bit, well, challenging. Pre-work, mid-morning or lunchtime for Europeans and somewhere between cocoa-with-Letterman and the middle of the bleddy night on the other side of Atlantic.

The idea of booze-accompanied 07:30 KOs turns my stomach. Anyone planning sleep-over parties?

Oh, and as has already been hinted at, England really need to win their group to stand any chance of progressing in the knockout phase (unless France and Brazil go a bit weird, and they could), and that seems fantastical. I too would love to see a Spanish victory.

I suppose i should declare it here - England will qualify top of their group, beating nigeria and argentina and drawing (as ever) with sweden. And I'm not even supporting them.

I'm glad to hear some people rate Italy, but I'm not overly hopeful. Having said that, 1982 was the greatest moment of my life, so...

It's easy to say who won't win, for instance I don't think Brazil will do well at all, I do think England will draw with the Argies and win their other two matches and go through top (this may be wishful thinking) but..... Argentina to win, any side who can afford to drop the little rabbit (Saviola) has to have a fuck-load of quality.

Viewing: the last few World Cups and European Championships, I've watched every game live (other than half of the simultaneous pairs at the end of each group, where I've had to settle for highlights). That's not going to be possible this time. I can be a bit flexible with work hours, so I'll watch the biggies live, including all England's games. I may be moving house in late June, so will book lots of leave once I have a moving date, and hope to be able to watch games in the morning then work at packing/unpacking the rest of the day, but it might not work out that way. It's bad for us in Europe, but even worse for those in the Americas, which includes some of the strongest and most passionate football nations.

saw Denmark v Cameroon last night, Cameroon looked very good yet still managed to lose, hmmmm. And they were wearing their cool sleeveless shirts (too, in the pouring rain, poor wee lambs.

also saw a re-run of the at awful game where we lost to Italy 2-0, we definitely don't want below par performances like that next month.

brazil no tiene un culo para metertela boca, hija brasile~na - nosotros vamos a patear la concha de tu hermana entre los goles, y la copa sera nuestra!

Haha, every time I say Spain, well I'm not falling for it this time. They will inevitably just be rubbish again. I think I might stick with France, although a third major tournament in a row would be a remarkable achievement.

The section with the fake Elton John was absolutely dreadful and not even mildly humorous, but that moment where Motson was prepared to go into serious analysis about the football songs was really telling. I can imagine him at home with his family, "I'd have to say that STEAK was the best meal we've had this week, your opinion son?".

a word about kits, other than England, Cameroon and Denmark, do all the others all have the generic Nike and Adidas kits? If so, how depressing as the big two's are all the same except different colours, lame.

Denmark though, nice Hummel kit, like it a lot, Cameroon, sleeveless (except in the world cup they'll have see-through sleeves so that the FIFA and World Cup logos can be attached) and damn good. England's kit = rub, that red stripe on there just looks wrong.

Geoff es tan burro que no sabe escribir brasileño cierto, tenemos la selecion completa, los atacantes brasileños son mejores que todos los argentinos juntos. ronaldinho(rei de italia) e ronaldinho gaucho(rei de francia) destroiram todos. lo ataque argentino: HA! cannigia tiene 100 anos, se es para hablar de vejotes, llamaramos pelé. burgos es el clone de bruce dickinson. Argentina so gana se usan las manos o se dan diñero a los peruanos

Ned, we are enemys at everything. The only time we stick together is against the americans

D'oh! Well, I don't blame you. And may I just say:

burgos es el clone de bruce dickinson.

Quote of the year.

Italy to win

Trezeguet to get the golden boot

Pablo Aimar to be the superstar of the tournament

all FACT!

and I was talking ass about the kits, there's a few other manufacturers in there, but it will be won by Nike or Adidas - fact.

I am in a complicated betting arrangment and need to nominate the top scoring Brazilian. Bookies seem to have Ronaldo on shortest odds, but has he even been playing over the last four years? Is Rivaldo a safer bet?

Rivaldo is also a bit unfit at the moment - go for Ronaldinho.

My God - I've just been reminded of the existence of Juninho. That little fella hasn't entered my thoughts for at least two years. Juninho - ha!

I think you're right, Jonnie, but why the hell have William Hill still got Ronaldo at 8/1, Rivaldo at 21/1 and Ronaldinho way down at 41/1 for the golden boot? I am confused.

Cos they're famous and people will just put them down if they don't know who to pick, then if by a miracle and they come good the bookies don't take a hit.

Jonnie is OTM, that said, I think they won't do that well anyway.

But please explain complicated betting thing, I am intrigued.

That is of course if Jardel doesn't end up going, he's ace and if they don't take him they will rue the day. Out and out strikers are exactly what Brazil are lacking, they've got loads of attacking midfielders but look lightweight in the striker department, erm, Ron.

Do you think there's a chance that the top Russian goalscorer will outscore the top Brazilian? If so, who? [this is not a random question - it is related to my complicated financial instrument]

I doubt it, but then again there always seems to be a hat trick scorer in the first round from one of the 'lesser' teams who leads the golden boot until about the quarter finals.So then you have to judge which teams are going to make the quarter finals etc.. It makes it all the more convoluted.By the way, Ronaldinho scored twice against Catalunia in Brazil's 3-1 friendly win the other day.

I'd like to see an AFRICAN victory.

England will not get past stage one.

Pinefox was OTM abt Liverpool, so I worry for Sven's men.

N. if one of them drinks that mystical "root drink" Oleg Salenko style then anything could happen.

ronaldo es come los spice girls con sida y la ultima jugador buena para brasil era pele, y el unico gol que el ha sacado recien fue de Xuxa

ooh look, BBC Fantasy Football League thingy.

I haf even set up an ILE Cup for us :) After you've signed up, click on friends league, then enter 621515 in the PIN number box and then "join this league". it's not exactly rocket science, just pick the top 7 scorers, but should add a little healthy rivalry (geoff and chupas could just about pick exclusively argentinian/brazilian teams should they choose).

I would join up, but they want my details and the filthy brasilians will get thier scummy its on them and firebomb my parents house.

Fratelli d'Italia....

Italy to beat Argentina in the final. Golden boot to be won by Henry. Your world cup heroes to be Emmaneul Olisabde and Hidetoshi Nakata. The Yanks to make complete arses of themselves again. Oh yes.

The Cameroon strip is awful. I hate sleeveless tops. I just thought I'd say.

I fancy Italy's changes. Abundance of strikers (if Trappatoni doesn't play both Montella and Vieri he must be on crack), top defence, two great keepers and with fuckwits like Albertini injured, Totti and Tomassi should form an excellent midfield. All that and a playing style built for winning tournaments.

Probably France will win it, their traditional striker problem seems to be a thing of the past.

Argentina have great material but one suspects too much of a good thing could become a problem.

Spain. Through intense meditation I have created an absence of expectation (I won't be fooled again). Quarter-finals tops, lost on penalties of course.

I'm refusing to put forward Spain as candidates too, just cos I've been embarrassed by doing that too many times before. I'd like to see Raul have the tournament he deserves though, even though he's a meringue ;-)

England v South Korea in a couple of hours, obviously I'll be watching and will report back for those of you unfortunate enough to be at work.

Perennial dark horses.Yay - I love world cup cliches. I got Cameroon in the sweep stake at work.Sleeveless tops are great.Ally you are just plain wrong!

I have vivid, absolutely vivid visions of Cameroon giving our boys an absolute spanking, 3-1 or 4-1. I can imagine George Hamiltons voice saying "oh..........disaster for Ireland" already. Having said that I'm the eternal pessimist according to mates, who claim I said Croatia would pummel us at the beginning of that qualifying campaign a few years back.

Did anyone watch the South Korea game? Were England any good?

well, watched it, there were adverts every ten minutes which I thionk helps vindicate my decision to come home in June (and yes, it will be the same during the tournament apparently).

anyway.....

Not convincing at all, England had control in the first half, and I was particularly impressed by Danny Mills, who seemed to keep a clear head and made some very intelligent runs. As did Owen as usual. Murphy showed some good touches too I thought.

Second half though we weren't good at all (yes we brought on loads of subs) Joe Cole seemed intent on showboating his way throuyghh the game. and the equaliser was abysmal defending, Monkey head and the most arrogant man in the premiership (T Sheringham esq.) should get an absolute rollicking for their defending at the corner.

Cheer up chros chris! Don't come home too soon etc.

Summary from my friend:

Hargreves was excellent, Mills and Vassel played well - Joey Cole did some tricks. Sinclair and Sheringham were appalling and should be sent home immediately.

Oh N. I am quite chirpy don't you worry, especially as I'm finally bandageless! anyway, your mate was right (apart from the spelling of Hargreaves, but then who am I to comment??) Sinclair wasn't *that* bad, but he didn't look quite right. Sheringham though - woeful.

I suppose Heskey did ok too. But I didn't think Hargreaves was that good.

Leave Teddy alone!

I only saw the second half and England were shite. Wes Brown and Danny Mills were comedy atrocious.

i saw their s ecurity precautions against the hooligans - fuck me, it was like bruce lee with a riot shield. Fear the John Woo styled anti crowd formations.

This Roy Keane story is very funny. They should dramatise it as a one off sitc

ock.

Yes, thank you (I am back on the crud comp)

Trevor Sinclair: what a tosser! "It's difficult, being flown to a luxury hotel on tyhe sun-kissed Korean coast to train with England's best players, with the quite possible prospect of playing in the World Cup in a week or so... I'm off".

Tosser!

But his FAMILY!

Well Joe, looks like he may be flying straight back, if Murphy's injury is a bad one, our midfield are falling like flies, at least they're not swinging their fists at the goalkeeping coach though, eh Ronan?

All these players are rubbish, injured or no - that's the trouble. England's squad is mostly an embarrassment.

Anything we achieve from now on is a bonus.

Let the record show I blame Keane fully and so does just about everybody else I know. He's really ruined his legacy and gone from being a national hero to a villain. It's the main news story here despite the fact we're waiting on a government to form.

I think the only thing you can blame McCarthy for is not having created the right atmosphere from day 1. Obviously it wasn't yesterday that the problem started. I read the interview in the Irish Times, but I don't think there's any excuse for Keane behaving the way he did. All this talk from him of "I'm not doing it for anyone other than my family at this stage". Good riddance. We might be a worse team without him, but noone's going to slate us if we just get out of our group at least, which is still possible.

Extra dislike now also because he's just a Manchester United player as far as I'm concerned.

time for a keane thread i think...

I am finding this foot injury epidemic very confusing. Is someone going around stamping on our players' feet?

In the wake of Murphy's fracture, should Eriksson cancel the Cameroon friendly? Should he turn to the under-21 squad? Am I going to get a shot at playing?

It seems that metatarsals are this year's cruciates.

David Dunn would have been a far better bet for a call up than not so tricky trevor Sinclair

and certainly better than N..

A one-legged monkey would be better than N.

Anyone have any insprired ideas for places to watch the first game / opening ceremony.

I'd really like to find somewhere with a Senegalese slant because I'll be rooting for them tomorrow. But where?

If anyone can think of anywhere LET ME KNOW! I am keen.

How about Senegal?

The best I could do Tim:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/yourlondon/unitedcolours/features/worldcup pa_african.shtml

Funnily enough I was just rung by Sky News asking exactlky the same thing Tim. I mumbled about some Senegalese restaurant in South london and pegged it.

I'll be watching it at work on World Cup Room 1. (World cup room two has a bigger screen but is in Kings Cross and has no booze).

Oh joy! Just got an email from lovely Computing Services, IN CODE to avoid detection, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that it means WE CAN ALL WATCH THE WORLD CUP ON OUR COMPUTERS!!!!

"Starting tomorrow (Friday) afternoon, USCS will be streaming trial video content onto the campus network using multicast IP. Anyone on campus using Quicktime 5 or later will be able to tune into this video multicast. The precise programme of video multicast trials is yet to be determined, and will depend on external influences (mainly in the far East). Some trials will be run for general interested, but most will be chosen through some misplaced sense of patriotism."

KICK OFF!

Hooray - Senegal score and the festival of football truly begins. I told everyone France were shit

Just me and one French student watching here - the atmosphere is now a bit strained!

blimey there is a TV! here in the office!how's anyone gonna get any work done now, eh?

Our technicians have been in a nearby bar for the past hour leaving me ENTIRELY ALONE so I feel fully justified in a) watching the match on my computer, b) going home early, and c) creating loads of IT problems for when they return, pissed.

Woke up about an hour ago, stared blearily at the screen, thought "France up? Mm," and rested again. But then I looked again and realized "Wait, it's Senegal!" Down to the final minute now...

SENEGAL WINS! Goddamn!

A bunch of French speaking Africans have just won against the French Frogs - yeah !

BEST RON ATKINSON QUOTE EVER!!!

Clive mentions that the new ball is "something of a white knuckle ride for goalkeepers". With great irritation Ron replies "keepers are always the ones complaining when there's a new ball out..........every single time. If they were any good they'd be playing outfield anyway".

Oh yes.

Yes but you've got to remember this ball is filled with blood and pish...

ITV were - as per usual - rubbish. What is with Terry Venebles Elvis hair and Gazza not being able to be understood? Loadsafun though.

They just explained Ronglish on ITV, they're doing a series of it after each match. "lollypop" was first. Say byebye to it forever people, it's going public.

Gazza=Very unsuited to TV obv.

So, Senegal have just beaten France. Des Lynam gives it:

"Well, they won't go all the way, will they."

So sayeth the man predicting a French victory 90 minutes earlier. Why won't they go all the way? Cos you cretinous arseholes have never heard of their players because they don't play in the Premiershite? Cos they're African (ooh, plenty of defensive naivety left in these boys). Fuck off you patronising sack of smug self-satisfied corporate shit.

That's better.

there is no English commentary to be had in Thailand on the world cup due to some rights issue, this is a bad thing, thank goodness only one England game will be watched with dodgy comentary wher the only words I can understand are the player's names. Still, I thought Senegal defended in a very dodgy manner, hoofing it every time. But.... they got away with it, which is a very good thing. Man of the match? The long haired right back Colly or something wasn't it?

How does this work-are france out ?

No. (Again).

I thought in the first half Senegal defended very well, in the second half it was lack of confidence in passing the ball out that could have cost them the game.

Man of the match - the Woodwork.

They were acting surprised at the Senegal guy making Desailly look stupid. The player was African player of the year! - why shouldn't he get past Desailly. It was annoying how dismissive and ill informed they were about the Africans.

Gazza didn't know how to pronounce Trezeguet plus he'd never heard of Senegal - even after he was reasked - "What, you've never heard of them" - he said no again. Can see we are going to have some toe cringing ITV moments to come.

Still, bosses letting you watch football at work = classic

Is Anthony being a football troll?

Gazza should replace Sunita in the BB house and give Jade a run for her 'new Helen' money.

I'm sorry I still don't think that Senegal were particularly good, it's just that France were worse!! Diouf (a liverpool target now I just read) was pretty wasteful up front, and the Senegal midfield couldn't hold the ball for longer than two or three passes. France *should* have won, they had the better of the midfield pla, it's just that couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo today.

1. Bad news, yes, if ITV are joking re Ron: that's just going too far.

2. Gazza was truly strange - out of his depth - child-like all over again. I wonder whether Des's opening - 'hope you don't crack up - hope we don't either' - said more than it seemed to.

3. Post-match entertainment fave = ROLAND BARTHES PAR ROLAND BARTHES: 'I have two work spaces, one in Paris, the other in the country. Between them there is no common object, for nothing is ever carried back and forth. Yet these sites are identical...'

4. Senegal won't go all the way.

Chris is OTM. Anyway, bit of a rubbish idea to still have Petit around isn't it? Candela on that spot would have given their game much more pace and some actual crosses. Put overall is was suprised by the attitude of the French, haven't seen them this unfocussed and frankly disinterested in ages.

ireland rool! ireland rule! we rule the school! yeah! etc.

well worth getting transporting duvet from bed to couch for at 7.25! yeah! so proud of de boyz.

at work now and still can't calm down. whoot!

I missed a lot of the Ireland game this afternoon, which annoyed me a bit but I got some lovely snide goods which made up for it. However I must say that the Uruguay vs Denmark game was a cracker, two teams going for it. Denmark looked bloody useful and Rodrigues' goal was a pearler, although I have a suspicion he may have shinned it. Denmark's winner= set up with a hand ball??? Beautifully directed header from Barca target Tomasson though. Come on the Saudis!!!!!

if you missed the first half, chris, you didn't miss much. ireland arsing about and not doing much. must have been reminded at half time about mr. r. keane sitting at home watching their lacklustre performance cause they came out the second half fighting, the little celtic tigers!!

I think Tomasson is on his way to Milan rather than Barcelona. We English football fans remember him when he was being useless all the time for Newcastle, so expect him to be another Milosevic - he was useless at Aston Villa, then scored some high-profile goals and got a big-money move, then became useless again.

damn it saudi arabia. stop being so shite. do you want me to lose this world cup sweep stake or wha?

I fear Ireland going the way of the Scots in '74 - possibly being eliminated because they can't match the thrashings their rivals dole out to the group whipping-boys. A display of extraordinary ineptitude by the Saudis - I don't remember them ever being as meek as this before.

When do the BBC update their Fantasy Golden Boot site? I expected someone named Sarah Cox (!) to head the leaderboard, but, despite her team name, she's only got Klose down for a single point. Congrats to Graham and James for their heavily-weighted Mboma choice. I've got a point!

Yeah, I was really pleased about Ireland today, but equally amazed at the awfulness of Saudi Arabia, especially as the Saudis beat Senegal 3-2 in a warm-up the other week.

I put Tomasson down as my one point choice, ah well. The Saudis were absolutely appalling, couldn't pass, couldn't defend, couldn't do anything!! I watched it with a German bloke and even he was feeling sorry for the Saudis by the end!!

I did my 'blearily stare at screen while waking up in the night' thing again and was thinking: "4-0? Hm...." *doze some more* "7-0? The hell?"

8-0 WAKE UP NED

8:30am on a Saturday. GO BACK TO BED NED.

(I saw you drunk stumbling across a footbridge yesterday)

I fell asleep again before the final goal, and now I wake up to this abuse. As for me drunk and all that, I suggest that you are the drunkard for mistaking me this way.

I'm excited.

1. Hansen called the Germany game the worst he has ever seen - I tend to agree. In the context of a world cup, this was dreadful fare; think of how many teams who didn't qualify could have beaten the Saudis today. I expected more from Ballack - disappointing - although he seemed to be being penalised simply for being bigger than the opposition. A shoulder charge is not a foul just because the man falls over! Germany deserve some credit though - 8 goals is a feat against anyone, and Kahn spectated throughout.

2. Senegal will not go all the way. Although I'm hoping they do since I have landed them in a sweepstake.

3. The French were short on ideas, and defensively poor. If Diouf had been more canny he could have had a bucketload. They have never needed Zidane more.

4. Denmark looked fairly impressive, although competing against a team who offered virtually nothing in response. Uruguay seem to be playing as a one-man side, with Recoba providing all the best moments (the goal excepted) until he gave up, frustrated (or was he injured?) and was substituted. Apparently they are good 'if in the mood'. I think they need a rocket up their arse.

5. I missed the Ireland game, but agree with Mike re: Scotland '74. We shall see.

All for now. Did I say I was excited? World Cups always seem to be more entertaining generally a) without Scotland and b) outside of Europe.

Some of us get massive entertainment from Scotland in World Cup Finals, Ally. They've got a fine record for qualifying, but always, without exception, fall at the first hurdle once they get there, often in hilarious (if you're English) fashion. If they were there this time they'd probably beat Russia, fight a mighty draw with Argentina and then lose to Saudi Arabia (obv I have made up a group there). Scotland's failures (especially when we got to see your namesake Mr McLeod (sp?) looking hopelessly confused) have been at times the only consolation for some of us England fans, on those occasions when you got there and we didn't.

Yes, Saudi Arabia were astoundingly bad today. I remember them being fairly good before, and Saeed Owairan (sp? again) impressing everyone. And I was disappointed with Uruguay too - I thought they'd be much livelier and more imaginative.

I'm getting quite excited about tomorrow (four games, including England's!), apart from the propect of rising at 6.15am on a Sunday, which is absurd. At least it's an appetising game at that time (Argentina-Nigeria) - I may struggle with the early game on Tuesday being China vs Costa Rica, which is one of the least interesting of the group matches. Although it'll get a massive audience of course, since China has a quarter of the world's population. I guess their game against Brazil will get a colossal audience, especially if China do okay in their first (which they probably won't, although the opposition is weak too).

argentina will piss on the hands of the english team and the mothers mouths of the irish

Nonsense, Argentina won't make it to the knockout stages. totally overrated. (these words will of course come back to haunt me when they lift the cup in a months time).

I suppose we'll see tomorrow Billy, but I fear that statement may be a little rash!

This world cup mallarkey is playing havoc with my sightseeing/gift buying!!

mind you here in Bangkok every shopping centre and restaurant (and even the huge weekend market) are showing the games on big screens.

Enough about the actual game. ;) I like most of the kits I've seen up till now. Most of them go for the classic look without idiot design, although the African teams seem to be stuck in the 80s design-wise. Also there seems to be an upsurge of good hair, probably the best looking footie players in a world cup since 1982. Although one can almost spot which players earn their living in Italy by the length of their hair. Eh right.

The Uruguay goal was a beauty and I indeed saw that hand-ball too, weird how we never saw a proper repeat of that moment. Refs seem to be really good though even those from...let's say lesser footie nations ;) I'm hoping this will be a trend: not killing the flow of the game for every Micky Mouse push or tackle

Cameroon’s ripped armpits Puma tops are a bit naff, but I dig their and Senegal’s new dance around the shirt goal celebration. France’s Addidas shirt has a pleasing simplicity even with those stripes. England's red-stripe top though is just awful.

As to hair I’d just about got used to Christian Ziege’s pockmarked complexion but that mohican, inexplicitly died blonde at the back, is ghastly. Schneider's stiff roots, and over all display, was most pleasing. Then there is the unwelcome upsurge in Abel Xavier-type dye jobs yuk. In Tofting and Graveson Denmark have the ugliest, meanest looking midfield duo, whilst Matt Holland is a vast improvement on Keane (+ scored a pretty goal).

BTW I’m reliably told the British ITV commentator at one point exclaimed ‘Le Boeuf takes one in the mouth’ hehehehe.

i missed the end of the uragay and denmark, who won ?
As well any of the other wins and losses i have missed could you tell me

Denmark won 2-1, then Germany thrashed Saudi Arabia 8-0.

Shit I wanted Uragay,

i cannot get ovah how bad ITV are at this. first gazza now "jimbo" hasselbaink. Aaaargh. did anyone catch when gazza mentioned he invented the dentist chair celebration and Tel and Des went stony faced and murmured "just leave it Paul". The man's on the brink!

also loss of tache has neutered Lawro.

IRELAND AND CAMERON DRAW <

Ned, you were wearing a slightly filthy bright orange polo shirt and had sprouted a textbook example of "vagrant beard", but I'm still sure it was you.

When Cameroon was in Eygpt land; let my Cameroon go.

Cameroon's compromise for the sleeveless kit was a horrible idea, it just looked as if they were playing a training game. And I stand by my comments about Denmark having the best kit, even if it does seem to be worn by a load of Uncle Fester lookalikes. Still haven't seen Holland's goal yet but I hear it was a pearler.

Well, almost halftime for Argentina-Nigeria -- missed the first half hour, but still scoreless, Argentine player currently being helped off the field after some weird collison...wait, he's back. Well, let's see what the second half brings...

All right, now we're talking -- that was one cool goal from Batistuta, I have to say, just knocking in there with the header from Veron's corner...

That goal was a defensive nightmare, two forwards arrive at the far post completely unmarked?? the man on the post ducks under the ball (surely he's there for just such a move???) and then the defender fails to clear (although you can't really blame him), hmmm Argentina I would have thought, should have pissed all over Nigeria there but couldn't finish very well at all, Sorin should have buried his chance where he controlled it on his chest, and the Nigeria keeper made a very good save at the death.

Nigeria looked completely tacticles though, instead they seemed to be hoping for a flash of individual genius to get them their breakthrough, and it just didn't arrive (although Okocha's shot was well saved). And both teams seemed to be playing very very narrow, I think that could be our key to doing well against the Argies, if our wide players can break, anbd if Sorin keeps drifting so far infield, we could (stress the could) be ok.

and why was Aimar keptr off the field so long??

The goal apart I didn't think Batistuta played too well either.

now let's see how Paraguay do without Chilavert, and whether Bafana Bafana can do alright without Bartlett????

Who WOn

Argentina 1 Nigeria 0 Anthony. Getting up at 6.30am isn't much fun, but the game was ok. Nigeria only started playing at all after they went one down. The Argies seem to have goalkeeping trouble; time for Beckham and Heskey to step up.

To disagree with Chris again, Denmark's strip is the worst so far - that disgusting skintight look. Not pretty.

Oh and Chris - Holland aren't even IN the World Cup, remember? Harhar etc. Tacticles, heehee.

Argentina, for all their qualities, struggled to create chances against a very defensive Nigeria (disagree with Chris on their tactics, they defended in depth + counter-attacked, boring but not inept). Batistuta didn't get many chances but still scored a great far post header. Write this colossus off at your peril. Pablo Cavallero looked in goal weak but first you've got to get past Walter Samuel who is one awesome defender.

W.Samuel is the Vieri of defense, a total nihilistic, emotionless ice- king. Argentina were solid but did lack a bit of creativity. Never understood the appeal of Ortega. Quite liked Sorin. I also think they were a bit nervous, probably will grow into their game throughout the first round. Nigeria meanwhile look like the African version of Germany, utterly boring flow-destroyers (with a crap kit btw ;)

Another entry in the great hair department is: Aimar.

Now let's see what Spain do during their traditional first-game-is- always-crap performance

oh boy, 1-0 at half time, Mills playing well I think, as is Hargreaves, although Cole and Heskey on the left looked initially a little unbalanced that's where problems are being caused so we carry on like that I presume. Beckham I don't think has missplaced a pass yet, the foot seems to be holding up too, good news all round

What the hell has happened to Larsson though, he was piss poor in the Scottish cup final much to my annoyance and looks in about the same frame of mind now.

Agreed on Walter Samuel though, he's one cool bastard, and always seems to be in exactly the right place.

Good luck for later Omar btw.

and lastly a gripe - The fucking world service aren't broadcasting a commentary!!!! what is the fucking deal with that???? we're having to watch it in Thai! and commentate ourselves!!

yay sa! (kinda)

Just call me Mr Kiss of Death! Bloody hell, from playing really well in the first half to being over-run in the second. Hargreaves became more anonymous as the game went on and we won't talk about Danny Mills' little cock up. ah well, I predicted a draw before the game and that's what we got. Dyer didn't add much really and we missed Beckham like France missed Zidane.

My man of the match = Emile Heskey, worked hard non-stop. My fellow Brit in the hostel gave it to Ashley Cole but that was just before he put Larsson clean through, thank goodness for his lack of form.

Well right now Omar must be happy -- woke up to just miss Raul's first half goal, the replay's made it look pretty exciting...

just saw the second goal before the mosquitos and the heat drove me from the tv room. Spain are playing the most attractive footy I've seen so far I must say, the forwards seem very tuned in to each other.

COME ON SLOVENIA!!!

My Sweden prediction turned out right - might as well go for a 2-1 to England in the Argentina game, and 3-1 in the Nigeria game. Fingers crossed I have super voodoo powers!

marc c - yr voodoo powers mean nothing against the giant schlong of south american mite!

why is it that the goalies are mostly far cuter than the rest of the team?

That was never a penalty, etc. etc.

England were wretched, and very fortunate to get away with a draw. Too many aimless long-balls (as though Vassel + Owen were going to win in the air), a lacklustre midfield, and some atrocious defending. Mills mistake was punished but he wasn't the only culprit. Only Ferdinand looked on top of the game. Play like that against Argentina + Nigeria + they might as well start packing now.

why is it that the goalies are mostly far cuter than the rest of the team? It's that ponytail and moustache of David 'semen' Seaman's you're thinking of, isn't it?

I think Sven must have been misinformed by scouts that all Sweden's centre-halves were under 5' tall => Owen and Vassell will win long, high balls. I can'r believe how bad England were in the second half. It's not even as if we were playing a good team (Everton's reserve midfield!) - it's horrifying to imagine how we'll fare if we play like that against Argentina!

Bah, what a lamentable performance by Spain. Everyfuckingtime the same story, they play brilliant in the qualifyer and then the first game of the tournament they start playing safe out of fear of blowing it in the first game. Luckely Slovenia were shite so this time we even got the 3 points. But the passing was unbelievably bad. 2nd goal was a beauty though. Luis Enrique shouldn't be in the squad and I have my doubts about De Pedro despite his consideralbe skill. Spain really need to play with Mendieta and Sergio (maybe even Joaquin) otherwise it's another 2nd round exit. Defense didn't look too good either, Puyol looked in trouble a couple of times and I still don't know what grandpa Nadal is doing there.

Luis Enrique shouldn't be in the squad .....Puyol looked in trouble a couple of times and I still don't know what grandpa Nadal is doing there

Spot the Real Madrid fan;)

Omar, I thought Luis Enrique was just about the best player on the pitch today. Mendieta should be playing though, you're right. And Spain were not impressive.

England played pretty bad...acceptance of the fact that Beckham is the only quality midfielder we have, and his role is now free kicks and corners? (due to his lack of match fitness) What the hell has happened to Scholes? Hargreaves was okay, but he's young he should be able to run about alot. Argentina will play with 5 in midfield, I can see it being a real seige, with England relying on the counter attack, which will probably suit them better...though they may have a better chance with a 5-3-2 (southgate, campbell, ferdinand)...with Cole and Mills making the space out wide...could play Butt, Beckham and Scholes in the middle, and make it Owen and Heskey up front, and bring on Sheringham when we need a free kick. England are definetely missing Gerrard.

Good to see Argentina sticking with Battisuta over Crespo (thus preserving my place at the summit of the ILE league)

Spain were okay, they got the result. That's all that matters at the moment.

I thought Luis Enrique played very well too, he looked bloody knackered by the time he came off.

Yes, Gerrard is exactly what England are missing. Even I'm sad he's not there. Scholes wasn't THAT bad, it's just that when England started to dissolve and their confidence drained, they stopped looking for the ball so much, got static rather than making any decent runs, and he had nowhere to go. Strangely comforting that this still happens, despite all England's new-found pomp and expectation.

In other new, lovely to see Veron in an Argentina strip. He was almost my favourite player in the world before he went to United and got forced into the wrong role. A shame.

Spain really need to play with Mendieta and Sergio (maybe even Joaquin) otherwise it's another 2nd round exit...
Nah, Spain will win their group, as no other team in it is any use. Then they'll play the runner-up out of Germany, Cameroon and Ireland and beat them - I'm very much looking forward to an Iberian semi against a Portugese team that nobody is much talking about, but I rather fancy. That could be a great game. I still think England might finish second in our group, on 'we can't play that badly again' 'logic'. With France losing to Senegal, that might mean France don't win their group so we play Senegal, Denmark or maybe Uruguay, and I think we'll have a reasonable chance. Then it could be a quarter-final against Brazil, which could be a very humbling experience. That's the best I can see us doing, to be honest. I really wish I could imagine our overall victory, but my imagination falls well short.

England shockingly poor and increasingly sloppy and fatigued, as others have noted - just have to hope that they buck their ideas up a la Euro96 (this game very reminiscent of that dour opening 1-1 draw with the Swiss). Scholes horridly out of sync with the game - I remember whenever British track'n'field athletes failed unexpectedly at major championships in the 80s (Cram, Ovett, Coe, etc) it always turned out to be some kind of virus. Poor Scholesy must have glandular fever.

Spain effective but not terribly impressive. Likewise Argentina. I wish I could comment on the other match but ITV1 bailed out after 45 minutes in order to concentrate on fuelling pre-England match hysteria. They truly are rubbish. Off to catch RSA's comeback on the Beeb's highlights show...

[Big worry about Group F: England improve but lose narrowly to Veron & co; having qualified Argentina rest 5 or 6 stars v Sweden and lose, avoiding France in R2. England beat Nigeria but finish third.]

Yeah Martin you're right about Portugal not being talked about that much and an Iberian semi being lost of fun. I don't see it happen, I think Portugal's moment was two years ago. Figo at the moment is in dreadful form, probably it all depends too much on Rui Costa's fitness.

Okay so Luis Enrique looked good preparing the first goal I just think he's passed it, Sergio and Joaqain just have more pace, skill and enthusiasm and Mendieta just is a better player. Puyol I like a lot even if he plays for FC Satan. He played on the wrong wing though, maybe that's the reason he looked a bit shaky at times.

Am I the only one who was astonished by the tenacity, pace and sheer determination that the Argies displayed in droves for at least part of the Nigeria match? If they close England down like that we're donald ducked. I say we, though, of course, I am very much an Italy supporter when it comes to the footer :-)

Starry has been converted to football by Brazil vs Turkey!

Come on Turkey! I hate the whole notion of Brazil are great, you must support them. It's the anti-canonist part of my nature.

My cat's breath smells of Cafu.

Wot secret code is this that you are talking? Thatmatch was fantastick with its last minute red card. OH NO my face my face! MAYBE but the ball hit you in your CHEST you Brazillian ponce. Tom says 'everything but biting was deployed' but I bet there was biting SOMEWHERE. And wot was with the Turkish goalie and his under-eye adornment? Reduces glare? Reduces my arse... more like.

Rivaldo goal is good for me...that's 14 points now! Though, he deserves a red card for his reaction at the end.

Oh dear, last time this type of confusion happened it all ended up with Me Vs Gurls.

I hope the Fifa sanctions come down hard on Rivaldo, that was fucking ridiculous.

I think that may have been the worst reffing performance so far, and I thought Turkey were unlucky to lose, despite their lack of forward momentum in the second half.

Piss, I just missed the match, sounds like a good one. Well, let's see about Italy and Ecuador here...

2-0 to italy already, has anyone got vieri in the fantasy teams? See starry we *told* you footie was good, now there is only emma left to persuade...

Her Majesty didn't give you lot TWO days off work to watch telly and surf the interweb you know. Shouldn't you be waving little flags in the street or something?

The Mexican victory is already getting people going around here -- late night celebrations, the local Spanish language news on Univision has everyone wearing team shirts, it's all good! I'm hoping for a good Mexican run in the competition.

Both Vieri's goals were fun to watch, they were. That solo one was great!

Italy looked pretty bloody comfortable didn't they? (mind you, I kept falling asleep, can you catch sleeping sickness in Thailand??) Vieri was very god and Totti was unlucky not to get one spectacular goal, he had enough good attempts. Maybe that was my one fault with the Italians, they were going for the spectacular a bit too much.

The Ecuadorians defended valiantly, but I can't see them progressing at all.

btw, this thread is taking fucking ages to load, is it time for a new one, or shall we wait until every team has played once??

Let's wait till every team has played. Brazil are cunts to put in a friendly manner. ;) Spoiled little brats who are still cruising on the myth that they were once the greatest team ever. Their kit is shite too. Too bad Turkey looked really solid and in control for most of the game.

Now Italy, they look very good. The Tomassi - Emperor Totti - Vieri connection is already on fire. Good team performance, should go all the way to the final in this form. Also the first Italian team I've seen since '88 that plays with a bit of joy.

I've got Vieri in my Fantasy Golden Boot, Steve. Weighted 6 too, so I've rocket boosted my way off my wooden spoon position. Doing well in my sweepstake too. I love the World Cup, despite yesterday. England can't defend a lead to save their lives, can they?

Sir Alf [to team]: Do you like gold?
Alan Ball: YEAH! I LOVE GOLD, ME!
Sir Alf: Well that ball's gold so don't give it away

Useless fucks.

I hate maths. What result would be best for us in the Sweden-Nigeria game? I'm already hearing people talking about Sweden and Argentina playing for a draw in their final game just to stuff us. Err, and to go through themselves, I guess.

Only way for that horrible scenario to be avoided for sure is for Nigeria to beat Sweden. Even then, there's the possibility that we lose to Argentina narrowly, and Argentina relax too much in the final game and lose to Sweden, meaning that even if we beat Nigeria we'd only go through if we had the superior goal difference.

Yeah, that's Mike's nightmare, above. If that looks like happenig I guess I'll have to start willing France to pull their socks up, so that Argentina still have an incentive to top the group. Oh forget all this hypothesising - it just causes too much worry.

Martin leads the ILE league by ten points from yours truly.

What's everyone worrying about. It's simple, England put 3 past Argentina and then another couple past Nigeria. 7 points in the bag, easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Unless they decide to avoid the midfield again, then they're stuffed.

Ally McCoist once again gives Ireland the kiss of life with his bloody "I think they'll be lucky to get a point" act.

He may be right but I question his motivation. This is because he annoys the fuck out of me on question of sport with his constant efforts to be funny.

I have to say as bad as it is that Ronglish is gone public, it was quite amusing hearing him discuss Spotters Badge this morning. ITVs pundits are truly awful though, Townsend? Gazza????

Not a patch on the superb O'Neill/Hanson/Lawro axis. Martin O'Neill is definitely a man you could have a pint with.

Olisadebe will have to get a hat trick for Poland tomorrow! 3rd place is unacceptable, I've talked to the lads and a few of them are pretty disappointed by their performance.

ITV are just dreadful full stop. You only have to look at the posters of the Manga Motty with his camel coat to see how ahead of ITV the Beeb are.

Can anyone post links to these manga ads or something? I'm intrigued...

See if this works......http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/photo_galleries/news id_1989000/1989629.stm/sport3/worldcup2002/furniture/nothing.gif

I liked the German coach for Cameroon. He looked like the tour manager in Spinal Tap, all pub-bloated and tough. And there was kind of a Graham Greene ex-patriate faded glory about him too.

It's less than 48 hours until all the world wuvs DaMarcus Beasley.

Am I a lunatic/and or exaggerating the ability of (my) 'home' teams or could all three CONCACAF teams advance?

....< href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/photo_galleries/new sid_1989000/1989629.stm">2nd time lucky

Anyone know how to link directly to a pic on a site which doesn't have an obvious img src tag?

....3rd time lucky

Anyone know how to link directly to a pic on a site which doesn't have an obvious img src tag?

Vieri was my #1 choice, so his two goals were worth 14 points to me! And I had Raul third, Ronaldo fourth and Mboma sixth. And Portugal haven't played yet. I'm happy with this aspect of the tournament so far. The BBC pundits shows Ray Stubbs at the top with 14 - Lawro bottom with 4!

I loved some of Brazil's play today, but thought Turkey were terrific - one of the best performances of the competition so far, and very unlucky, as that was yards short of being a penalty. Rivaldo should be immediately suspended for at least one game, but the sending off should stand, as it was for a justified second yellow. I expect Brazil will cope with China and Costa Rica, even if Rivaldo is suspended.

The current big World Cup question is: I've not missed a game yet, but can I get myself out of bed tomorrow for China vs Costa Rica? Not a lot of my favourite players, and I don't think either are serious contenders.

Thank ya there, Billy. I now cannot doubt the continuing influence of the Gorillaz, among other things. ;-)

Scott, Martin and I discussed this on another thread, and I argued that the US team, while no threat to win or even get to, say, the quarterfinals, was the best ever (or at least since 1930), should perform respectably, etc. I'm retracting all that. The speed of play has been very fast for long stretches of time, embarrassing quicker and more able defenders than the US has. Without an adequate back line, Damarcus and Mathis and O'Brien and Wolff and Donovan aren't going to be seeing enough of the ball to make stuff happen. I hope I'm wrong. If I'm not, you can put the fault squarely on the shoulders of Mr. Bruce Arena of Fairfax, Va., who has stuck by his old, slow DC back line of Agoos, Llamosa, Pope, and Sanneh (okay, Pope is okay) to crippling effect. The extent to which he has played favorites with his old club would embarrass Terry Venables. I'm thinking 0 wins, 0 draws, and 3 solid losses is a distinct possibility.

If Arena were to wake up and play Mastroeni and Hejduk, I'd retract my retraction.

Cripes, Martin has this ILE league sewn up and no mistake. I'm suffering from my smart-arse idea that the opening phase would see some leading strikers injured/rested and Luque and Luizao would be banging them in. Could've sworn I hadn't deselected Raul though. Banking on Rui Costa frying the US on Wednesday morning.

Early days (doors, whatever). I think a fresh thread for the second chunk of group matches is a fine idea. Wednesday lunchtime (BST)?

Benjamin: You’re right about Arena’s pets – in particular, bringing a less-than 100% Llamosa is baffling. The man was slow enough as it was before being banged up. (And a red card waiting to happen with his ill-timed tackles to compensate for that lack of speed.) And the U.S. defenders with any pace have such slow football minds – Sanneh and Regis are calamitous under pressure. It’s a shame that Bocanegra (granted he was oft-injured) and Mastroeni didn’t gain Arena’s faith earlier to win the spots in central defense. Instead, virtually every deserved young player who has worked his way into the lineup has earned his spot after subbing for an injured vet rather than supplanting a more ineffective one (Mathis, Wolff, Mastroeni, Donovan). Beasley is the only exception. Presence of Cobi Jones or Joe-Max Moore on the field = total U.S. embarrassment (and the perfect illustration of Arena's player selection 'mistakes'). Chippy ‘fighting spirit’ types, bless ‘em, for trying so hard, just aren’t going to do the job.

I'm pretending Cobi Jones isn't on the team. English folks asked about soccer always feel obliged to mention him and 'the red haired git, with the beard,' and I claim, falsely, that both are in the A- League.

I had a dream that our back line was O'Brien/Pope/Mastroeni/Hejduk the other night, but Jeff Agoos (top minger in the world cup, as well as being a crap defender) is written into the starting lineup in indelible ink. Why is it that the good US players spend most of their lives sliding in and out of the MRI chamber, and the worst players never get hurt?

I've been winding up the US fans (it's nice to have a subject area where they're a minor, developing nation), but they might just pick up a point or two. Not against Portugal, oh dearie me no, but South Korea and Poland aren't terribly strong, so they have chances there.

As for the ILE fantasy league, I have to say that the lads have done fantastic for me so far, we had a great pre-season so I knew we was on for a flyer, but it's early doors and you have to remember that an ILE World Cup fantasy league is a marathon not a sprint and I just hope we'll be there or thereabouts at the end of June.

Forgot to say: You don't win anything for being top on June 3rd.

it's nice to have a subject area where they're a minor, developing nation

Which is pretty much the only reason I can feel comfortable supporting a US national team. This team being mediocre and largely under the radar = refreshing lack of jingoism.

Come on Japan! First match with an atmosphere (unsurprisingly).

I don't personally think it's been a great world cup so far, far too many mismatches. It might have been a good idea to have some of the potentially more competitive matches up first, to capture the imagination. The early morning probably doesn't help. It will get better I'm sure.

Second half of Japan v Belgium was marvellous stuff. Nothing much wrong with Inamoto's disallowed effort.

Big Ron keenly identified the differences between the rather ragged back-lines of each team - the Belgians had 'just lost it', whereas the Japanese were, obviously, 'defensively naive'. Aargh. (Trevor Steven was at it about China too).

Poland are looking really awful. The defenders seem to actively dislike their midfielders, preferring to boot the ball out for touch rather than win it and move upfield. Fair enough, as the midfielders would rather play harmless balls over the top then move into the ample space Korea give them. And Olisadebe, while showing flashes of skill when he gets, is surely getting frustrated and tired as his good off-the-ball runs get wasted. Do people really rate convincing qualifying wins over has-been Norway and never-was Ukraine as justification for thinking Poland are really a solid team? Or is this a case of 'they gave England fits some years back, they must be good'?

Oh well, if my fears are borne out, the US should provide them with enough points to justify a world cup finals appearance that looks to be utterly disappointing.

Goals don't come any softer than the one Korea scored in the first half.

Ron Atkinson and Clive Tyldesley are single handedly trying to ruin the world cup, I have now realised the best method is pictures on TV, audio from 5 live. Plus big Ron is a big fibber, *as I said in the first half the Belgians are too old*, no you bloody didn't you're just making it as you go along.

I thought South Korea played excellently, shackled Olisadebe completely, and as said above totally cut him off from the rest of the team. Poland did well enough in qualifiers to earn themselves their fancied outsider tag, however, if they don't buck their ideas up even USA may take a point off of them.

Of course I managed to miss the second half of the Japan game , just seeing Inamoto's ridiculously ruled out winner.

I think Spur's should offer to buy Inamoto.

I want Japan to win the world cup as their players have clearly made the most effort with their hair styles.

However, I've only see one or two mullets so far...one Argentina and one Costa Rica player. I wish Tony Polster was still playing.

Gosh golly, I picked my players entirely abitrarily and I'm doing WELL.

The Japanese DO have the best hair. Thank God that goal was chopped off as I put a bet on the result of all the matches today, got them right and won a tenner. Ha.

I wish Tony Polster was still playing.

heheh or Chris "King of Crap Haircuts" Waddle.

If we're talking haircuts, I would like to remind older English fans of Paul Mariner. Sorry.

Paul Walsh (Luton, Spurs, Man City, Liverpool and others) had a mullet way into the mid 90s. He had no excuse as other footballers had moved on from this phase, but no only did he have a long mullet, it had highlights too. The man was a disgrace.

TONY

FUCKING

WOODCOCK

Not to mention Ian Bishop!!

40 minutes gone, and it's Portugal 0 USA 3!!!!! It can't last, can it?

At the very moment I posted that, Figo scored. Bollocks.

It's still totally mental tho. When I first read the scoreline I assumed they'd got it backwards.

I figure Benjamin is still asleep and somehow the BBC are broadcasting his dream.

Have they mentioned North Korea on ESPN yet, I wonder?

stranger things have happened, as Costa Rican player Wrigth, sorry, Wright knows only too well.

haha! I knew Portugal would have a stinker of a world cup!

that was an answer to Ricky T, btw. Incidentally, wot is the deal with all these Costa Rican players with English names?

Costa Rica annexed the Isle Of Sheppy two years ago. There is also a largish American community who often get stuck there because whilst they think they know the way toi San Jose (Fa la la la la la lala laa) its not the San Jose they wanted.

Oh and Wrigth's name was spelt correctly - his parents mis-spelled it on his birthing certification.

Portugal were way too cocky in the first half, and the US chased down very well. Missed the first goal, the second was a freak and the third was in the words of Hansen, appalling defending.

I have to say though that the US team has two of the most punchable characters in football, Brian Mcbride is a cocky little shit who dives all over the place, sems like a typical jock (US useage) whereas Bruce Arena is my most hated man of the tournament so far, pompous wanker, I mean it's bad enough when players mime for yellow cards at the ref but when a manager does it, it just makes them look like a cunt. Plus his goal celebration??? grrrrr must stop, about to blow a fuse. Good luck to Ronan's boys in a minute though.

I couldn't sleep, I was so anxious, and I was hoping the stories about Reyna and Mathis (our two best players) being too nicked up to play were typical Bruce Arena head games.... there was a huge amount of luck, but also the sense to run our players into the corners and fight their way in.

In my dreams, we play flash football and score gorgeous goals like Brazil 1970. But I can live with this, I think.

3-2! Well done, USA.

End of phase one. Time for new thread? I insist you call it "The World Cup Thread and other football throwdowns Pt. 2 - The Saga continues" ;-)

Ben, congratu-fucking-lations mate :-) I really feel your enthusiasm somehow made the difference!

There's a guy called Bruce Arena? Oh my God! That's the coolest name ever!

You haven't sen him Jel!!

forgot to say in my rage up there, yes, Well done USA possibly the shock of the round.

Shit I have other theories about the world cup so far but I have to go upstairs and watch those lovely boys in green.

ps Rui Costa = Rick Witter

Chris, I've hated Bruce Arena for many years. Despite points for being a Brooklynite, he's a whiny, lisping, arrogant shit, who sticks by his UVA/DC United boys, despite shocking incompetence (cf. Agoos). But I can despise the man and still adore him right now. I'm sure I'll feel differently once Agoos takes the golden boot on own goals alone.

Neat victory (and what a brilliant own goal, it was if he knew it was going to be a sure goal so he decided "aahh what the fuck I'll do it meself, with some grace...WHAAAMM" ;). Portugal are beyond help though, bunch of egomaniacs. Besides if you insist on playing with Fernando "Butcher" Couto and without Nuno Gomes for most of the game you're asking for trouble.

Willy Brandt - Karl Kraus - Falco [etc etc] - your boys took a hell of a last-minute point!

Mike is picking up on bad clichés, eg 'defensive naiveté'. I think it could be argued that in the past, some developing-world nations *have* been defensively naive (or substitute other phrase if preferred - unprepared, ineffective or whatever). But I think the boy Jones is OTM for 2002, where *none of them do* look defensively naive, even the ones labelled defensively naive!

eg (as Mike says) China - this is a way of not recognizing the achievement of Costa Rica? Two good finishes!

Portugal: if they were from Asia they'd be called def. naive; as it is they're called complacent - which I suppose is almost the logical opposite (you're so accomplished you're bad).

So whatever about the past, I think the dodgy double-standard is well in play now, and distorting the pundits' view of what's happening.

Trevor Steven *not* good so far, I'm afraid. (Put it down to jet-lag, succeeding the disgraced McGrath? The Trevor Sinclair of expert summarizers...)

BTW / fantastic US win - that tickled me. Terrible 2nd-half og, though.

I must admit I felt very embarressed yesterday when Ron Atkinson constantly used the word naive.

I thought the Germans were defensively naive against Ireland. Countries that only had a professional league since the 50s will always struggle at this level. After all, their heavy industry and such like was only put in place after 1945, and sadly, these teams are vulnerable to the long ball up to the big man up front.

Well done USA. Portugal amazingly bad defensively, managing to look like they'd never played together before; indeed, never played FOOTBALL before. Also well done to the Irish. Some entertaining games in the last few days, although I haven't managed to see all of them.