Goodfellas vs. Pulp Fiction

Roughly the same caliber, I think.

yea this is harder than i thought

Just finished Goodfellas for like the 4th time or so. Not my fave film of all time, but pretty great nonetheless. Probs seen Pulp Fiction 6 times. Plot is better in Goodfellas, but there's a good argument for PF's superior cinematography. I love 'em both tho.

Slow parts: that whole "pot belly" thing < Paulie chopping the onions.
Worst actor: Quentin Tarentino < Girl who needed her hat
Best Diner Scene: "Be cool, Bunny" > "Got a thing in Miami to take care of."
Best Cameo: Christopher Walken > Henny Youngman
Best Soundtrack: Pulp Fiction = GoodFellas

I voted for Mira Sorvino.

Plot is better in Goodfellas

???

I'm sure what you say is true, insofar as you define "plot," but I don't think that word means what you think it means.

har

Both of these are great movies. Yet at the same time you kinda wish they could both lose, mostly because of the over-enthusiasm of other people. But Pulp Fiction is at least underrated by some quarters, whereas no one really underrates Goodfellas. But ignoring these outside considerations, it's a much closer match up than first glance might suggest. Goodfellas enthusiasts are likely to be more outraged by that suggestion than their counterparts, which sort of biases me against it, because I don't really feel like the pompousness toward Goodfellas and easy dismissal of Pulp Fiction is really that justified on these substance/style grounds. When, in fact, I feel that Goodfellas is only of neglibly greater substance than Pulp Fiction (ie very little), while Pulp Fiction is a bit more than negligibly more stylish than Goodfellas. Part of me wishes I could privilege style over substance here so that I can say that I am the sort of person that prefers style over substance, but with such negligible differences involved here, I'm not ashamed to tell the truth to myself or those who would judge me a philistine, and admit that at this point in time I prefer Pulp Fiction with it exceeding in style, imo, to a greater degree it's relative lack of substance.

Or more succinctly, they are both relatively substanceless joyrides with a surfeit of style. Why not pick the more stylishly entertaining one when it is on those grounds that both excel?

Also PF has a better plot.

easy win for Pulp Fiction, for me.

i like pulp fiction well enough but... dude.

eurgh hate pulp fiction, goodfellas easy

I get a v. bad gut-level reaction boiling this down to stylish, empty movie vs. stylish, empty movie

whereas no one really underrates Goodfellas.

I'm pretty sure I underrate Goodfellas, actually.

Pulp Fiction by some distance.

Yet at the same time you kinda wish they could both lose, mostly because of the over-enthusiasm of other people.

Keep in mind that this poll isn't about which film's fans are less annoying. This poll is about seeing beyond that. It's about appreciating pretty great but not absolutely top-tier (in my opinion) films for themselves.

Cf. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34201

i knew it would link to that! i -- if you will -- know my onion.

I considered polling Reservoir Dogs against Goodfellas for about a second, but I realized it would just get creamed.

Pulp Fiction and Goodfellas are totally different films. (oh really?) Goodfellas is a serious, epic gangster/maffia/undercover movie. (which i found a little boring, good music though) Pulp Fiction is hilarious random weirdness with bad guys.

Pulp Fiction in a walk.

took me 0 seconds to decide on goodfellas - do like pulp fiction a lot but its not in the saem league

they're both pretty virtuosic, but goodfellas seems so effortless by comparison + i would way rather watch GF.

the answer is goodfellas

the answer is clearly pulp fiction

The answer is clearly Mommie Dearest.

there's this moment in goodfellas right after they beat up billy bats in the bar where the camera zooms in on tommy looking at henry and through the music and that look and the camera work scorcese somehow communicates that tommy knows that he just sealed his fate and it all takes like a tenth of a second. it's like the 600th best moment in the movie and its still something prob 99% of directors wouldn't be able to capture.

Suggest banning everyone who seriously votes for Pulp Fiction.

^^ was gonna drop this but, like tommy, i think it'd seal my fate

"PF's superior cinematography"??

Anyone who thinks this is even close needs to stop stanning QT or lay of the crack or something.

Has everyone on ILE been watching Scorsese and QT films lately?

this actually just an elaborate plan to annoy morbius

i dont think youd need an elaborate plan to do that

This is a question? Isn't this like comparing John Coltrane (Goodfellas) to the lint you cleared out of your dryer's lint trap yesterday (Pulp Fiction)?

it's like comparing one boring overrated movie to one annoying but interesting overrated movie

its like comparing goodfellas (goodfellas) to pulp fiction (pulp fiction)

its like comparing goodfellas (pulp fiction) to pulp fiction (goodfellas)

its like comparing pulpfellas to good fiction

good pulp fiction is better than fellas

i like good pulp, would not watch fictionfellas

Subbing "Jackie Brown" for "Pulp Fiction" woulda made for a tougher decision on my part. And "GoodFellas" "Miller's Crossing" woulda been more fun for me, if only 'cause I love to enumerate the trivial inadvertent parallels between those two. As it is, GF takes it pretty handily, tho PF at least had the more idiosyncratic soundtrack.

goodfellas (millers crossing) vs. pulp fiction (jackie brown)

fella fills jackie brown good.

it's like comparing one boring overrated movie to one annoying but interesting overrated movie

OTMFM!!

oh the man for me!!

I'd hit

i would like to say that

Pulp Fiction is hilarious random weirdness with bad guys.

^^^this could also describe much of 'goodfellas'

"PF's superior cinematography"??

― s1ocki, Monday, March 2, 2009 7:49 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Pulp Fiction may be all flash and no substance, but the flash is pretty flash, even if it's all stolen Hong Kong goods.

waht

where are the hong kong-y bits in pulp fiction?

it looks nice and everything, but there's nothing to compare with, jesus i dunno, karen's introduction to everyone at the wedding, to take a random scene.

dude up until and including most of kill bill QT's cinematography is like the definition of workmanlike... lit all to fuck

Pulp Fiction is hilarious random weirdness with bad guys.

^^^this could also describe much of 'goodfellas'

well i agree with the 'bad guys' part..

goodfellas is funnier than pulp fiction

I just couldn't shake the "Happy Days" quality of Goodfellas, by which I mean, references and nostalgia for another film. Goodfellas wasn't awful, but every five minutes or so it reminded me that I could be watching The Godfather instead.

what?

?

pulp fiction was sunnier than goodfellas.

filmed in socal

I just couldn't shake the "Happy Days" quality of Goodfellas, by which I mean, references and nostalgia for another film. Goodfellas wasn't awful, but every five minutes or so it reminded me that I could be watching The Godfather instead.

― what happened? I'm confused. (sarahel), Monday, March 2, 2009 9:37 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wtf. they're both about italian-american gangsters in new york but otherwise, there's not much linking these two films.

the more I read the word 'goodfellas' the more ridiculous it looks

not sure how i'm voting yet though.

wtf. they're both about italian-american gangsters in new york but otherwise, there's not much linking these two films.

Goodfellas plays up the nostalgia element of old school italian-american gangsters, there's the coming of age aspect, and the family aspect of the mafia, and the stereotypes of said things, that were largely popularized by the Godfather films. Robert DeNiro plays a major role in both. For me, it's hard not to link them.

i think you meant to say goodfellas plays AGAINST the nostalgia element of the velvety godfather movies

i think you meant to say goodfellas pisses all over pulp fiction

What an awesome poll.

Voted "Goodfellas," btw, but for the record, I have Pulp Fiction on proper double-disc DVD and shit, and my copy of Goodfellas is a computer file.

I just couldn't shake the "Happy Days" quality of Goodfellas, by which I mean, references and nostalgia for another film. Goodfellas wasn't awful, but every five minutes or so it reminded me that I could be watching The Godfather instead.

This is like saying John Cale and Lou Reed are the same because they were once in a band and are attracted to bad sex.

Voted "Goodfellas," btw, but for the record, I have Pulp Fiction on proper double-disc DVD and shit, and my copy of Goodfellas is a computer file.

― kenan, Tuesday, March 3, 2009 12:22 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

heavy.

and are attracted to bad sex

ok you lost me

heavy.

I was merely pointing out that I was willing to BUY PF, but not GF. Then again, my having GF as a computer file allows me to reference and screencap it more easily, so maybe it's a wash.

but u voted gf (pf)

Because I think it's just slightly the better film.

Maybe more than slightly, but this is no blowout.

goodfellas is great. it's a really solid movie.

but pulp fiction - as annoying as tarantino is, as cliche as lots of aspects of the film seem now, as blah blah blah - whatever - at the end of the day it's one of a dozen movies that's been so completely integrated into american pop culture that sometimes you don't know if something is ripping off / referencing pulp fiction or whether that's just what the filmmakers are doing because that's just what people do. obviously words like 'important' and 'influential' don't have to overlap with 'good' - but pulp fiction has to be the most influential movie of the 90s. whereas goodfellas...is simply a very, very good scorsese movie.

goodfellas is the best scorsese movie.

even better than kundun?

ya goodfellas didnt influence anyone, least of all tarantino

who cares about nebulous "most influential of the '90s" shit... which do you actually like better?

i mean are you really voting for pulp fiction because without there wouldn't be a "2 days in the valley" or a "things to do in denver when you're dead"? such a loss

no I'm also voting for it because it's more fun to watch

btw as far as influence goes boogie nights has some shot-for-shot thievery str8 outta goodfellas

how it breaks down for me: goodfellas is a movie i'm always happy to watch again, pulp fiction is a movie i hope i never watch again

(and i like PF)

so completely integrated into american pop culture that sometimes you don't know if something is ripping off / referencing pulp fiction or whether that's just what the filmmakers are doing because that's just what people do

Disagree. PF is such a pastiche itself that the stylistic references to it, esp during the 90's, look tired and obvious to me. (eg Guy Ritchie.) You can't really "rip off" Pulp Fiction without looking like a cinematic choad. Change that statement to be about Scorsese, and you're right.

it's like eating animals that eat meat. It's distasteful.

s1ocki u r just the realest damn dude

i od'ed on pulp fiction when it first came out and when it first came out on vhs, goodfellas kinda fell by the wayside but upon rediscovery i realized it was one i couldn't live w/o and i have yet to actually buy pulp fiction (totally unnecessary to own in my opinion)

yeah the fact that goodfellas seems like it isn't as stylized or unique is maybe a good argument for how influential it has been

This is like saying John Cale and Lou Reed are the same because they were once in a band and are attracted to bad sex.

No. Closer to the mark would be saying Lou Reed's solo work suffers because it is reminiscent of the Velvet Underground and makes you rather listen to the Velvet Underground than Lou solo.

with a couple exceptions... Berlin, New York

PF is such a pastiche itself = the lasting legacy. the 20th century pop culture milkshake-ness.

not the gangsters looking cool w/ flashy editing - which is what guy ritchie etc. try and rip off and end up with pretty boring movies.

i think you meant to say goodfellas plays AGAINST the nostalgia element of the velvety godfather movies

Lou Reed and John Cale are the same as the velvety godfather movies - attracted to bad sex.

PF is such a pastiche itself = the lasting legacy

There's something to that, for sure, but it's a legacy that all but disallows references to itself. Borrow your own shit, noobs!

I like Lou Solo (Berlin, Transformer) and VU in their own rights. However, someone else might feel like Lou is pale substitute for Velvets.

the 20th century pop culture milkshake-ness.

Was just talking to a friend the other day, that Pulp Fiction would have been better without that diner scene.

I love the dancing bit, all that sexual tension etc, and that's necessary for the setup to the rest of that sequence. But right after Uma comes back from the powder room, I always thought her lines were kind of awful. She overtalks every sentence, throws in big words for the sake of doing it. Come on, that's not something a freshly coked-up person does, it's something a writer does.

A flailing one.

http://flailblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/medieval_flail.jpg

No that's later in the movie.

that's what they call foreshadowing.

Was just talking to a friend the other day, that Pulp Fiction would have been better without that diner scene.

Sooooo wrong. Maybe my favorite scene.

Goodfellas is better in just about every way. Probably that woulc be more accurate without qualification.

Goodfellas is better. Boom, done.

Right. Not to say I don't enjoy Travolta asking Sam for a footrub.

I do!

I am very sick of both of these movies.

Morbs is right about the overall too narrow focus of ilx movie fandom. I love both these movies, but haven't gotten sick of them because I've only seen them three or four times each, max. I do believe I will start a Preston Sturges poll.

What movies aren't you sick of, Mr. Snrub?

it's quite possible to like these movies a lot and have seen them a lot of times, and also like Preston Sturges

(who is as overrated as these movies)

OMG that's too insightful for me to handle. This is the big one Elizabeth! I'm comin' to meet you!

> it's quite possible to like these movies a lot and have seen them a lot of times

I don't mean to be controversial, but isn't it possible that the more you see them the more you become bored due to familiarity?

And because I'm not finished blowing your mind yet, perhaps the degree to which something is rated (either over or under) depends on the individual or group doing the rating? On ILE, at least, we have had dozens of variations on the Pulp Fiction/Goodfellas thread, and very few on the Preston Sturges thread, therefore Preston Sturges is not rated as highly and thus not overrated as much by ILE as PF/GF QED.

*~mind explodes~*

I would like my Nobel Prize made out to "Cash" please.

ya goodfellas didnt influence anyone, least of all tarantino

i thought Blow stole a lot from goodfellas

Could we get back to milkshake-ness? Could someone make a poll about it?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

rong

fuck you pay me

results too close for comfort imo

This is a very strange matchup. Was one of the Pulp Fiction episodes based on Henry HIll?

Goodfellas vs. Sopranos seems like more natural sparring partners.
Pulp Fiction vs. Go.

so rong

you're right. goodfellas should've had more dead nigger storage and saturday night live cameos.

pulp fiction is def better but goodfellas isnt a lightweight either so eh i can take the rong

I never understood the godfathers/goodfellas/sopranos bestofalltime shit.

pretty good story + it's about the mafia!!!! = clearly better than anything else, ever.

What movies aren't you sick of, Mr. Snrub?

― what happened? I'm confused. (sarahel), Monday, March 2, 2009 9:27 PM

snrub's silence is deafening

This is a very strange matchup. Was one of the Pulp Fiction episodes based on Henry HIll?

Goodfellas vs. Sopranos seems like more natural sparring partners.
Pulp Fiction vs. Go.

This is called "thinking outside the box", son.

Right, since nobody asked:

GoodFellas - Released September 1990
Miller's Crossing - Released September 1990

GF - Italian/Irish/Jewish mobsters
MC - Irish/Italian/Jewish gangsters

GF - Irish protagonist, Jewish wife
MC - Irish protagonist, Jewish paramour

GF - Morrie known for his toupees
MC - Rug Daniels known for his toupee

GF - Henry pukes in the forest while excavating Billy Batts' corpse
MC - Tom pukes in the forest while looking for Bernie's corpse (which he knows isn't there, but never mind)

GF - Tommy shot in face specifically for purposes of disfiguration
MC - Ditto Mink

GF - Morrie sings "Danny Boy" to Henry
MC - Leo listens to "Danny Boy" on his victrola

GF - Karen ineffectually threatens Henry with a gun
MC - Ditto Verna/Tom

GF - Morrie threatened, choked with telephone cord after falling behind on gambling debt
MC - Tom threatened, beaten; same reason

GF - Spider shot in foot, and then shot again, fatally
MC - Anonomous would-be assassin shot in ankle, then shot again, fatally

GF - Lois separated from her lucky hat, sends Henry to retrieve it
MC - Tom separated from his own hat, goes to retrieve it himself

GF - Starring Mike Starr as Frenchy
MC - Starring Mike Starr as Frankie (and "Frankie" = "francophone" = "French-speaking" = Frenchy!)

thanks!

dece

Is it possible to put that info in Excel and graph it?