socal vs. norcal

Central Coast, obv.

BAKERSFIELD

i apologize for nothing

well okay I apologize for obnoxious hippies

I meant socal apologism

Norcal. Fuck the rest of Californa.

http://www.banderasnews.com/0807/images/sur13.jpg

State of Jefferson 4EVER

norcal needs apologism for its lack of apologism tho

Socal is soooo much less odious when I don't have to go down there every other fucking week.

i like em both, tbh. but i'd probably go w/ norcal

"norcal needs apologism for its lack of apologism tho"

No we don't.

I admit when I say Norcal I mean SF. The rest of Northern California is pretty meh.

i like socal but it appears most of the good jobs in california (the ones i'm looking for) are in the bay area and sacramento.

i dunno, i haven't spent a ton of time in "norcal" proper; i was under the impression that the bay area was part of the central valley.

Not...really.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I love norcal not just SF

the 199 is the most beautiful stretch of road I've ever been on

i dunno, i haven't spent a ton of time in "norcal" proper; i was under the impression that the bay area was part of the central valley.

Hahahaha! Troll award for today!

SoCal, but I'll give a big ups to the Central Coast, too. Big Sur, San Simeon and SLO were gorgeous last weekend.

Yeah, we like cows in SF. What fucking of it?

and yes, I regard anything north of San Jose to be NorCal, anything south, not.

santa cruz is more norcal than san jose is imo

Eureka is Alaka, dude.

BAKERSFIELD

If I had a dime for every joke he's made about B-field in the last few weeks, I'd have about enough money to park for 24 minutes in the East Bay.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3168273446_1243a8d7e5_o.jpg

are there any redwoods south of Santa Cruz...?

Bakersfield at least had a great country music scene. Total shithole now though.

Total shithole now though.

Aw, don't judge it just by the odor.

Alright, north of Carmel. Ned, you are from the Maryland/Missouri of California.

xp It's also the color of a shithole though.

I'm judging it based on my memories of visiting a family's cattle farm there when I was 10

x-post

two states, we want two states

That would solve so many problems.

And probably create new ones too, but still.

thanks for the water norcal

for the purposes of this poll, I'm defining norcal as anything north of SLO and socal as anything south.

SLO itself = no man's land where peace treaties can be made. and uh, Bakersfield goes to whoever loses.

Yeah, two states, and maybe we can exchange Eurekaland for parts of Oregon.

the CA county map provides a very clear hint to where northern california ends and southern california begins:

http://www.cagenweb.com/plumas/map_files/image007.gif

SFian: We HATE those Angelinos!

LAian: Who did you say hates us?

Shakey mentioned it above, but it's worth repeating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yreka,_California

In November 1941, Yreka was designated as the capital of the proposed State of Jefferson, a secession movement along the Oregon and California border that has gained cultural traction in the following decades.

That's awesome. I never realized the straight line.

Pretty close, too.

Kingds/Tulare/Inyo seem more SoCal to me, but I can accept being forced to include them for this exercise.

the state of jefferson is a retarded idea. it would have the population of oakland.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

It would be more retarded if it had Oakland's actual population ... including its civil servants.

i guess the key for me here is where would i want to live in socal outside of l.a., and where would i want to live in norcal outside of the bay area? the answers would be nowhere and several places, respectively, so i choose norcal.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

No way. Parts of Fresno Co. extend further north than Southern San Francisco Co.

We won't take Fresno Co. without compensation.

i guess the key for me here is where would i want to live in socal outside of l.a., and where would i want to live in norcal outside of the bay area? the answers would be nowhere and several places, respectively, so i choose norcal.

santa barbara? san luis obispo? san diego? pomona?

Options abound down here, man!

Hahahaha! Troll award for today!

lolol i was thinking more of the inland counties and of the fact that the bay area is still south of sacto (which is often referred to as central valley even if it is clearly in the northern half of the state). i've only lived in california for three years though, sorry to be a gabbneb.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

Fixed:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8042/cali.png

xp BLAM: we'll keep Madera county, how's that?

hahaha great map

COALINGA VS NORCO

well even if i concede SLO and SB to an extent, i think the hideousness of southeastern cali still tips it in favor of norcal

xp BLAM: we'll keep Madera county, how's that?

I'll take it to the committee. 7 pm, No. 2 lane of the 405, just south of the 10. Can everyone make it?

Hmmm. If libcrypt's newest representation is correct, I claim Mendocino Co. as a colony. They have a few good breweries up there.

totally not down with libcrypt's map!! Avenue of the Giants! Humboldt weed! Klamath River!

nobody wants to claim san berdoo/riverside/imperial... can't they be their own state?

pomona BLAM are you fucking serious!? I moved AWAY from there!

My knowledge of north-northern Cali is sparse, so I'm sure I have perp'd many an injustice with my insouciant map.

actually the recent election maps are pretty O_o to what is Norcal vs. Socal.

nobody wants to claim san berdoo

Fogerty!

pomona BLAM are you fucking serious!? I moved AWAY from there!

Sellout.

if you order a burrito and it has rice in it you are in northern california

nobody wants to claim san berdoo

Fogerty!

Gotta give credit where its due...he's an East Bay guy.

Fogerty namedrops the weirdest places in Cali

"if you order a burrito and it has rice in it you are in northern california"

Pretty sure I've had rice in a San Diego burrito, but it's been a while.

most of our burritos have rice. i believe the burritos-sans-rice is a san diego thing. (and by extension a mexico thing.)

xpost

Alright...here's an idea.

First, whats the line of demarcation?

I would argue that Carmel/Monterey is where Northern California starts. Any takers/dissenters?

Man, I am totes wading into religious territory here, but I have heard that the taqueria concept is a Norcal, or specifically SF, one. If I'm wrong, please don't tear me up like a chimp on xanax.

I already made it official up-thread!

Because, clearly...most of the diehard NorCalians want NorCal to be ANYTHING north of Ventura.

above SLO = norcal and below = socal

gonna vote as a tourist and cali lover not a resident and say

redwoods np, lassen, yosemite>>>>>>>>>>>>>>death valley, joshua tree

joshua tree >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else in the state

better?

http://21grand.org/cali.png

Ned, you are from the Maryland/Missouri of California.

My dad more than me but I am a spiritual citizen of the place.

xp Hahaha

you're giving up ZZYZX Rd. to New Nevada? you fucking traitor

i would consider norcal to be san jose and points north. give or take a few miles.

hahahaha zzyzx road!

San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara are socal. Any diehard Northern Californian should know this.

Anyway the real battle is Contra Costa County vs. Inland Empire.

above SLO = norcal and below = socal

I can dig this. I need at least some more participation before I continue on to my next few points.

"i would consider norcal to be san jose and points north. give or take a few miles."

No way Santa Cruz is Socal.

Dude, New Nevada also gets most of the prisons, pollution, and meth labs.

fine, santa cruz and points north. it can be right on the border.

xp Not until incorporates Riverside it doesn't.

what we're all missing is the fact that norcal and socal are not just geographic definitions, but rather, horrible states of mind

you can be norcal anywhere, really

If you are stoned enough, sure.

Santa Cruz is more or less equal in terms of northness as San Jose now, as San Jose has laid claim to a lot of unincorporated area south of its former boundaries.

If you are stoned enough, sure.

I'm pretty sure you can then be NorCal and SoCal at the same time. Pretty sure.

step 1. buy 'norcal' logo for the window of your black pickup truck / rice rocket

The line has been blurred since we began to get more In-N-Outs in the Bay Area, I'll admit.

what is the Maryland/Missouri of California?

No way Monterey is So Cal!

I'm gonna claim Monterey for norcal too. The entire Monterey bay is norcal's.

wiki sez Teh Big Line

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Southern_California.png

Try the Big Line. You don't like the Big Line? Just try it. Just once.

We can argue over SLO but the high concentration of lesbians makes it inherently more norcalish.

What the hell is that blue thing there in the middle Riverside/Imperial? It looks like a deflated PacMan ghost.

i think san luis as a border sounds good. went to school there and this debate was fuckn omnipresent

I've driven across the big line and Tulare Co belongs in So Cal.

what is the Maryland/Missouri of California?

Carmel and other areas on the border of NorCal/SoCal...akin to border states around the 1860s.

surprised no one has mentioned hella btw

Is deflated Pac Man ghost the Salton Sea?

Missouri of CA = SLO
Iowa of CA = Sac
Texas of CA = Bakersfield
California of CA = LA
New York of CA = SF
Florida of CA = SD
Colorado of CA = Yosemite

the big line gives way too much real estate to "northern" california

Hella, as an expression is more Central Bay Area/Sacramento area. Never heard it growing up in the South Bay/Monterey area.

Does Oakland get to be Brooklyn or Baltimore?

If you live in Cali and don't know what the Salton Sea is, you're definitely norcal (although the reverse isn't true)

someone who knows LA super well should do the next level, an LA version of that. what is the california of LA?

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8629/socal.png

I was gonna mention hella but thought it would be a bad idea

Berkeley is the Boston of CA - I have the same mixed feelings about both places.

xspot - one day, lib, one day

you have to wait for the Salton Sea fish to grow legs first.

Much less likely to get hit in the head with a beer bottle in Berkeley.

Kentucky of CA - Fresno

Berkely is to Boston
as
Oakland is to Southy

Carmel and other areas on the border of NorCal/SoCal...akin to border states around the 1860s.

We just sip wine and look a bit into the distance on the shore:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2383/2144424321_f33da65162.jpg

Much less likely to get hit in the head with a beer bottle in Oakland.

Much less likely to get hit in the head with a beer bottle in Oakland.

Than Southy? Yes.

Likelihood of running across the following groups in Boston vs. Berkeley is about the same:
neurotic middle aged women with cats
dumpy dude with dockers in therapy
gothy live action role playing game nerds
black people

someone who knows LA super well should do the next level, an LA version of that. what is the california of LA?

san pedro = bay area old-skool longshoreman culture
pierce college (in the SFV) = central valley big agriculture
hollywood = san francisco gays, junkies, macrobiotics
the southeast valley south of ventura blvd = irvine

I know quite a few people who got hit in the head with beer bottles in Oakland.

This debate will be sooooo over when sea levels rise just a bit.

Is Pierce College where the kids go that can't get into Cal Poly?

oh and the antelope valley is the new south central, only exurban

Is Pierce College where the kids go that can't get into Cal Poly?

it's a 2-year, they probably transfer.

lolz sarahel map = teh awesome

no no I meant like what is the Texas/Colorado/Florida/California of LA

once we have figured out that, then we dive into the California of LA

LA: I contain multitudes.

places i have stayed for extended periods of time-

Norcal:
S.F. - YES. A++ would visit again or live there.
Palo Alto - mmmm ok. the weather was perfect. dug the trees. got to stay in a really nice place and i can remember a couple really good restaurants.
San Jose - downright lame imo. (pretty much lived there for 4 months)

Socal:
L.A. - totally dug it! for a few days, anyway! not sure i could live there...
O.C. - hmm no thanks. ate breakfast at a place with an awes view somewhere around laguna beach, but otherwise meh.

(norcal has edge, but tbf, i spent a lot more time there )

Is this where we start carving up norcal? 'Cause I'm gonna draw the southerly latitude @ Oakland

i hope someone has a good answer for the florida/colorado/etc of LA cuz i have to go out now. keep the thread warm for me!

were people talking shit on eureka?

Is this where we start carving up norcal? 'Cause I'm gonna draw the southerly latitude @ Oakland

That's problematic, as San Leandro and Oakland flow together pretty seamlessly.

no no I meant like what is the Texas/Colorado/Florida/California of LA

Does anyone care apart from people who live in or near LA?

I do and I don't live in or near LA

nver been there, but LA's Colorado = Laurel Canyon, maybe?

Fla = Manhattan Beach??

I just want to figure out what the Californiaest place in the world is

Disneyland.

^^^ possible
but begs the question: what's the california of disneyland? tomorrowland?

Californialand.

redondo beach is florida, but that still doesn't account for the meth/murder aspects of florida. can we just say the south bay in general? (ok, i'm going now.)

San Gabriel Valley - Moneyed South
San Fernando Valley - Poor South, and Central Plains
Venice/Santa Monica/Malibu - California
Whittier - Texas
Beverly Hills - Upper East Side of Manhattan
Downtown LA - Detroit
South LA - Gary, IN
Glendale - Armenia
La Canada - New Hampshire
East LA - Mexico
Manhattan Beach/South Bay - FLA
Laurel Canyon - Colorado
Topanga Canyon - Oregon

"Fla = Manhattan Beach??"
never been to Florida but this seems correct

Missouri of LA = Long Beach cause rivers flow through it
Iowa of LA = San Fernando cause of the rich alluvial deposits from Pacoima, I'm sure the soil is decent
Texas of LA = Riverside cause of the trucks and the hopelessness
California of LA = Hollywood, CA
New York of LA = New York means what exactly
Florida of LA = Marina del Rey cause of the waterfront retirees
Colorado of LA = Topanga

oh yeah there's the california adventure thing. still...dunno if that's as california as toontown though.

i might've been getting redondo & manhattan mixed up
xxxposts

no wait Colorado is Big Bear!

i like southern california now after years of vocally hating it, on this very board. but that's probably because I never actually go there. but I approve of the concept.

venice beach = fla panhandle spring break lol titties?

^^prob not fair to venice beach weirdos

I actually think, if we're really adding it all up, that Venice Beach is the most SoCal of all of SoCal.

Santa Monica, then, becomes the Central Coast - arguable.

Malibu is then NorCal. Maybe.

this game can then be played on the country level

SF = France
SC = Switzerland
Oak = Belgium
Santa Barbara = Spain
LA = America

America of LA = SF Valley

America of LA = SF Valley

Sad, but true.

What, prithee, of Pasadena?

oak = holland? (oaksterdam yukyukyuk)

humboldt=new zealand

CSI: Miami is filmed primarily in the United States. Location shots are filmed in the South Florida/Miami-Dade area, while indoor scenes are shot at Raleigh Manhattan Studios in Manhattan Beach, California. Some scenes, mainly outdoor, are filmed mostly in Long Beach, California, as well as portions of Manhattan Beach. Beach areas of Downtown Long Beach are often used for other outdoor scenes: Marina Green Park, Rainbow Lagoon Park. The newly constructed high-rise condos there give the presence of being in Miami. The sculptured walkway paying tribute to the old Pike Roller Coaster can be seen in the background in the episode "Under The Influence" (original air date 10/04/04; there, Alexx and Horatio investigate a body found on Shoreline Drive, a street made famous by the Long Beach Grand Prix).

i'm voting socal but only really like la and joshua tree & environs. rest of socal doesn't interest me at all

What, prithee, of Pasadena?

some teutonic place with a twee flower show

san pedro = bay area old-skool longshoreman culture
pierce college (in the SFV) = central valley big agriculture
hollywood = san francisco gays, junkies, macrobiotics
the southeast valley south of ventura blvd = irvine

pasadena is the solvang of l.a. county!

solvang is the euro disney of california

pasadena is the solvang of l.a. county!

San Marino is the Connecticut of LA county

Years back, Mono and Inyo Counties were part of the 714 area code so I've traditionally placed them in So Cal.

The Rust Belt of the LA Sprawl is Downey, Lakewood, Hawthorne, Whittier. Bellflower

Also, this movie to thread:

Years back, Mono and Inyo Counties were part of the 714 area code so I've traditionally placed them in So Cal

Inyo face wiki big line adherents!

there isn't nearly enough socal apologism in this thread

I'm sorry you feel that way.

still it was worth it for this phrase:

"pasadena is the solvang of l.a. county!"

I am quite happy with the straight line/San Luis Obispo theory as it makes Norcal a really easy vote (uh, for this foreigner who has spent a mere three weeks in your state and probably shouldn't be allowed to vote at all), otherwise Monterey and Big Sur might give me pause.

Mainly I just really liked SF and thought Tahoe and the coast road north of SF were beautiful, but by the time we got to the south we were all getting pretty tired of the driving-motel cycle, and our LA experience consisted mostly of going in circles and/or stuck in traffic being unable to find things, so we cut the few days we'd planned to stay there short.

our LA experience consisted mostly of going in circles and/or stuck in traffic being unable to find things

sounds like you got the legit LA experience

chaki in LA vs. chaki in SF

boring thread

^^^ boring person

i've only been to Norcal (and the Central Coast, if Monterey and Santa Cruz are "Central Coast").

also interesting that CA is like NJ, in that there's a north and south and a "central" region that is both/neither north/south!

norcal > socal
sf < la

that's more or less my take

i like LA. and i like SF.

but in some ways, think i'd be happier in LA, weirdly enough.

QFT:

There are a lot of unpleasant people in LA and in SF as I think this thread ably demonstrates.

― Alex in SF, Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:47 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

jeff smeff

jeff, howbout you go share your insights about the world in some less boring thread

how about you read the previous la v. sf threads so you dont rehash this tired debate :P

:P

okay, enough of insightful jeff's insightful insights (for now)

how about the bay area as a mini-california

san jose = LA
san francisco = even more san francisco
berkeley = santa monica
marin = nornorcal
modesto = riverside

outer east bay = OC
san leandro = ventura

I like these SF vs. LA debate threads. It's like we're just checking the temp on the patient. As far as I can tell, he's as healthy as ever.

can we all agree that stockton sucks?!?

i've only been to Norcal (and the Central Coast, if Monterey and Santa Cruz are "Central Coast").

The local tv station calls Monterey and Santa Cruz the Central Coast. You are correct!

Stockton does suck. Apparently enough people who live in Stockton feel the same, as it made one of those most unpleasant/depressing places to live lists. When I was in high school, I had a friend from Stockton, whose Mom was the therapist for the grade school where a bunch of kids got shot back in the 80s.

That incident is the first thing I think of when I here Stockton

The local tv station calls Monterey and Santa Cruz the Central Coast.

Hey, I knew what I was saying in the first post on here!

I forget the name of the station now - it's the Salinas/Monterey station - the female evening news anchor went on to marry Clint Eastwood. I think she was the older sister of a former baby sitter of mine.

I lived in Orange Co. for 9 years as a kid, and Shasta Co. for 3 1/2 years as an adult, so my answer probably should be "nuke the whole thing," but the real answer is Norcal.

t/s norcal vs. socal VS alta vs. baja california

I used to be really anti-NorCal, because I moved up to SF for a year after spending my entire life to that point either in the 909 or LA. I was homesick most of the time, so San Francisco lost a ton of points just for being not Los Angeles. What really got me was the occasional swipes at LA on the TV/radio, in the paper, etc., to the point where it seemed like part of San Francisco's whole civic identity was about not being LA, and so it seemed like the City was rubbing in my homesickness further. (Although now I live in Washington DC and sometimes it feels like people think less of LA here than they did in San Francisco.) I got to like the Bay Area a little bit more right before I left, although a lot of that was having a commute from San Francisco to Davis for a while. It is a really nice drive if you time it right, and Davis is kind of great. Still, Southern California is the best place ever, even if it includes a bunch of weird stupid crap.

In terms of comparisons, I am kind of surprised nobody brought up the pejorative "Fontucky" yet.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9536/41dh7jzdkjlsl500aa240.jpg

seemed like part of San Francisco's whole civic identity was about not being LA

sf=the canada of california

We also have universal healthcare.

if only

to be fair Newsom DID propose that at some point, didn't he?

I have lived in San Diego, San Juan Capistrano, LA, San Jose, Berkeley, and Oakland, work in San Francisco, and have family in Modesto, and the correct answer is that the Bay Area reigns supreme.

to be fair Newsom DID propose that at some point, didn't he?

He made it law, sort of. Employers with x or more employees that work x or more days a month in San Francisco have to either provide health insurance for their employees or pay into a city fund. I think the Golden Gate Restaurant Association (i.e. San Francisco restaurant owners lobbying group) are suing over it. Or is it the minimum wage thing, they're suing about? I forget.

I think they are suing over both.

"it seemed like part of San Francisco's whole civic identity was about not being LA"

Having contempt for LA /= constructing our identity over not being LA.

So much of San Francisco's whole civic identity is being morally superior to the rest of the country. It's not just LA.

All I can say about people who love LA is y'all must love driving and hate walking a lot more than I do.

i really enjoyed LA for the brief time i was there but the driving did kinda make me wish for death

I really enjoyed SF for the year or so that I lived there, but the parking made me homicidal.

As an nondriver in OC I just have to say -- hey, still here after all these years. Did I mention the wonderful weather right now?

the whole state of california needs to get over itself; our governor is the co-star of twins

"I really enjoyed SF for the year or so that I lived there, but the parking made me homicidal."

Why even own a car then?

has there been a good sf vs. nyc thread? that's the only way to get sf people on the defensive

Oakland weather is pretty wonderful right now, too.

"As an nondriver in OC I just have to say -- hey, still here after all these years."

I'll bet that's super convenient. Remind me again how often you need to bum rides from other people to get to and from shows?

i just sold my car and am about to get me a bike to tool around l.a. with

then again most of my friends live right near me, most of the bars are near me, a couple of dope live music venues are right around the corner, and i can borrow my gf's car if i ever need it

"has there been a good sf vs. nyc thread?"

There might have been. That debate pretty much comes down to the weather as far as I am concerned.

i'm a nondriver in l.a. and my experiences with mass transit and walking have mostly been good. but i get crazy over things like neighborhoods where there are few-to-no sidewalks on major north-south streets, because some genius decided to widen the streets to accommodate more friggin' cars. ok, i'll just get killed while walking, so the cars can have six whole lanes to drive poorly in.

Why own a car? Because I had to haul things, (this is before city car share/zip car), and I had to work hours where it would take over an hour for a bus to show up. I also liked to visit my family from time to time, and they were 1 1/2 by car vs. 3 hours by train, and there were only two trains from SF that went down there a day.

I own a car and also have a garage. :D Yay Oakland.

i just sold my car and am about to get me a bike to tool around l.a. with

yeah, there's a pretty sizable bike culture in l.a. -- they're a little too guerrilla for me though. i haven't been on a bike in years other than the stationary one at the gym, and i would mostly be interested in riding in safe places like dedicated bike paths and residential streets.

Having contempt for LA /= constructing our identity over not being LA.

Yeah, but keep in mind I was young and coming from a place whose identity involves thinking about itself obsessively, so I viewed the entire world from Wilshire Blvd. The contempt seemed very strange, since most of the people I knew in LA generally liked San Francisco. (This is not true for the conservative suburban area where I grew up, though. They think San Francisco is full of godless liberal communists, and gays.)

I used to blow off steam by driving around aimlessly through Los Angeles, and miss my car dearly. I do not hate walking, although I rarely lived anywhere in LA walkable to anywhere worth going to. I live in DC now and it is kind of the opposite. Driving here seems like kind of a pain in the ass, honestly.

I own a car and also have a garage. :D Yay Oakland.

Ditto! I can also walk a block to the corner store without being hit up for cigarettes or spare change two or three times at almost any hour of the day.

Are there enough bike lanes in LA? I haven't seen 1) a lot of bicyles and 2) safe areas to bike when I've been there. It is nice and flat though (except for the mountains.)

i rarely hate driving in la. you can choose to live in a walking neighborhood (there are some), live relatively close to where you work etc. you don't have to be a slave to the freeways.
also, walking around in the socal sun is dud for like half the year because it is too damn hot.

"I can also walk a block to the corner store without being hit up for cigarettes or spare change two or three times at almost any hour of the day."

Yeah but according to someone upthread you might get hit in the head with a bottle.

As a relative outsider, I definitely agree with the idea that San Franciscans think about LA too much. But while there are plenty of cool people in LA, I will take SF's lame people over LA's lame people.

i would probably not do any of my bike riding beyond the side streets and sunset blvd between los feliz and echo park, though maybe i'd go to hollywood if i was feeling ballsy. but drivers here are scary enough when i'm relatively safe in a car, so i might not ever get that ballsy.

poly otm on that last point

also, walking around in the socal sun is dud for like half the year because it is too damn hot.

haha, the first year I lived in Redding was the summer we had something like 40 consecutive days over 100 degrees.

"i would probably not do any of my bike riding beyond the side streets and sunset blvd between los feliz and echo park, though maybe i'd go to hollywood if i was feeling ballsy. but drivers here are scary enough when i'm relatively safe in a car, so i might not ever get that ballsy."

That's really sad, cuz LA could be a great biking town if it was better set up. I guess it might be a little hot sometimes.

Are there enough bike lanes in LA? I haven't seen 1) a lot of bicyles and 2) safe areas to bike when I've been there. It is nice and flat though (except for the mountains.)

bike lanes along major boulevards? there are a few, but i wouldn't trust them. as for bike paths, there's a pretty nice one along the orange line -- from north hollywood out to woodland hills. and i know some cyclists who love riding along ballona creek (culver city).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Los_Angeles_bike_paths

problem with bike lanes is you always have to watch out for people pulling out who are only watching for cars and might miss you, or even people just opening their doors to exit.

^^ this is not just an LA problem.

You have to do that in Amsterdam (probably, you definitely have to in SF.) Drivers don't give a shit about cyclists everywhere.

yeah i didn't say "problem with bike lanes in l.a."

and some cyclists (esp messengers, delivery dudes) don't give a shit about anyone else.

Alex, were you trying to make me feel bad about asking for rides for shows? Truly, I'm wounded.

xp Those guys get hit a lot though so it's all good.

"Alex, were you trying to make me feel bad about asking for rides for shows? Truly, I'm wounded."

Hah if it works for you, good on ya.

I see it all this way -- my bus pass is free from work and has been for some years now, I live right off a 24-hour bus line which has a connection to Amtrak/Metrolink, I live right next to a slew of good places to eat, drink, relax at, shop for essentials at etc. and it only takes me about twenty minutes max to get from work and to get back either way. That and you occasionally get presidents giving town hall meetings nearby.

Like I said, good for you. I don't see how you live as being remotely typical for LA living though or even really replicatable for most people living down there.

Ned, your life strikes me as pretty alright.

and i've always made a point of living in transit-rich areas. mobility is near the top of my list of priorities when i'm picking a place to live. (and i don't blame people for choosing to live in the middle of nowhere if that's their thing, but they don't get much sympathy from me when they say they would TOTALLY take transit if their area had it, but whoops that never entered their mind when they were researching the neighborhood/town.)

Alex, most of Norcal is car-centric, too. Trying to get around San Jose without a car is pretty depressing.

It's certainly not typical at all, Alex, but I wouldn't pretend otherwise. I of course wish it was more replicable, though, and that's precisely why I support transit initiatives and the like -- and even something as relatively limited as Measure M down here in the county itself is essentially, as it's asked the county, twice, to ask for and then extend a sales tax increase to support local road, rail and bus systems and maintenance. In both cases they passed and made the two-thirds majority necessary, however razor thin at points -- it's a sign that there is awareness and interest, even here. More can and should be done but I'll take some over none.

Left out a word or two there, should be 'essentially just that'

l.a. county got screwed out of its measure r money (a 1/2-cent sales tax increase that was MEANT to go to funding new transit infrastructure). when the state was doing its budget, it allocated exactly zip to l.a. transit and decided it would use the measure r funds to shore up the operating deficit. er, that's not what it's for!! thanks for stealing something so hard-fought from us.

if i'm ranting, it's because this issue is close to my heart. i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

Yes, and yes again. There is something to be said for trying -- however haphazardly sometimes -- to be a role model. There have been instances where friends, either for medical or other reasons, have found themselves carless and have been absolutely convinced there's no way they could get around. Being able to show them they can -- certainly there's a little planning that'll always be necessary, no question of it -- is worth it.

oh, for walkability stans, this is going on:

Trekking Through Great Neighborhoods

Do you enjoy walking around "great places" and "great neighborhoods", and then want to replicate some of those amazing ideas you've learned for your own community?

The California Planning Foundation (CPF) is proud to present three distinctive walking tours in three great communities. These sustainability walking tours will take place in Oakland, Pasadena, and San Diego on Friday, April 3 from 9am to 4pm. 6 CM credits are pending on these CPF professional development workshops.

The San Diego tour will focus on the Hillcrest neighborhood named as one of APA's Great Places Neighborhoods for its diverse, urbane, and trendsetting characteristics. Downtown Pasadena draws on the successful efforts in the integration of redevelopment and green buildings. Sustainability is the key for the Oakland tour that includes talks on green businesses and green collar jobs, and a visit to a local food cooperative.

Last year, over 40 college planning students throughout California received scholarships and awards. Please continue to support this vital program by attending the walking tours as the proceeds will go directly towards funding the very important CPF scholarship program.

Don't miss the opportunity to attend one of the three remarkable walking tours. For additional information and to register, please to go www.californiaplanningfoundation.org/CPFWorkshop2009.pdf

i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

and i want to clarify that "car culture" is in quotes for a reason. cars are not the enemy, it's the defeatist/arrogant mindset of so many socal people who believe that because the automobile was central to much of a place's early planning, that it necessarily has to (or should) stay that way forever.

All I know about California is two trips to SF for a total of maybe 9 days, four of which were last week. In my time there I heard at least four or five people talk shit about LA and wonder why anyone would ever want to live there or even visit. Which is kind of funny after living in a couple of pretty, less expensive, reasonably-close-to-California places where anything California related, north or south, is despised moving in and jacking up the cost of real estate.

"Californian" is also apparently fightin' words:
http://i44.tinypic.com/nlr5zs.gif

also: cars turn normal people into complete raging d-bags

also: cars turn normal people into complete raging d-bags

This is one opinion.

I, for one, have not experienced this phenomenon.

As to say, I have not become a raging d-bag.

have you tried to park a car in San Francisco?

you know what also sucks about california? prop 13. (unless you're a homeowner who bought a long time ago in a down market and are still paying taxes proportional to that original assessed value; then prop 13 fucking rules.)

good source of funding for public projects? out the window. thus, sales tax is a really big deal here.

there's this thing called road rage, blam!

Hey did someone say road rage:

A 23-year-old man was in custody today following a bizarre road rage incident in Toluca Lake. Sarkis Ambartsumyan was driving on the 101 Freeway at about 3:45 p.m. Tuesday when he got into an argument with another driver, police said.

Ambartsumyan pulled out a handgun and fired several rounds at the other man as they neared the Cahuenga Boulevard exit, police said. The victim, who was struck in the hand, followed Ambartsumyan and tried to get his license plate number as the suspect drove wildly, said Sgt. Ben Alonso of the Los Angeles Police Department.

Ambartsumyan got into a brief collision near Cahuenga Boulevard and Bloomfield Street and "then drove westbound and pulled into an auto body shop," Alonso said.

The victim continued to follow Ambartsumyan and flagged down a Los Angeles Fire Department captain, who saw Ambartsumyan flee the auto body shop. The fire captain notified police, who set up a perimeter and eventually took Ambartsumyan into custody, Alonso said.

Police said a 9-millimeter handgun was recovered, and the victim was taken to a hospital in stable condition. Bail for Ambartsumyan was set at $500,000.

Of course, this could all be explained by it being Toluca Lake.

In the 2003 California recall election in which Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor, his advisor Warren Buffett suggested that Proposition 13 be repealed or changed as a method of balancing the state's budget. Schwarzenegger, believing that taking such a step would be to touch a political third rail that could end his gubernatorial career, said, "I told Warren that if he mentions Proposition 13 again he has to do 500 sit-ups."[citation needed] A 2004 Los Angeles Times Magazine cover story that detailed the proposition's damaging effects and advocated its repeal drew heavy criticism from its supporters.

< /policy wonk>

prop 13 does suck. it really screwed schools over until they passed some other proposition, and those two combined are partly what led to all those budget deficits.

Hooray oh wait.

The dysfunction of California's public funding would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so grim in many areas. Black humor is the only correct response to keep from exploding in frustration, and even that only goes so far.

we had to vote in a 1.5% sales tax to fund public hospitals in the county. We have the highest sales tax in the state, though so does El Cajon.

we had to vote in a 1.5% sales tax to fund public hospitals in the county. We have the highest sales tax in the state, though so does El Cajon.

LA has a very long history of killing (and eating LOL) their public transit systems.

the whole state of california needs to get over itself; our governor is the co-star of twins

― NYSE:JAH (get bent), Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:25 PM (2 hours ago)

this was rather pointlessly driven by socal politicians invoking recall and Arnold's narrow victory was propped up by the counties of Orange and LA almost exclusively.

Wow, El Cajon has the highest sales tax of any city in California now? Wow, things have changed since I moved outta that box.

ComicCon vs. WonderCon

gray davis, the last american hero

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38678000/jpg/_38678831_gray1-ap-300.jpg

see what i mean

My perspective as someone who was born/raised in San Diego and went to college in Berkeley is that San Fransisco is a really well executed (maybe the best executed, but NYC is probably better) American city, while LA (and SoCal in general) is in it's own category, like it really doesn't belong in the category 'American City'. Furthermore, all the things that I think of as quintessentially Californian (with a couple of exceptions: hippies, for one) all have their genesis in SoCal culture.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

haters

score one for wheelchair access!

Not actually wanting to revive this particular conversation but seeing as both myself and mrs adamrl have the errr, blessing of very flexible schedules, we are thinking of maybe doing a weeklong road trip of some places in (mostly Northern) CA we still haven't seen. Potential itinerary is LA--->Sequoias-->Yosemite--->Tahoe--->Shasta---Humboldt/Mendocino--->SF---->LA. Obviously, we know SF and Yosemite pretty well, but she wants to do Tahoe and I want to see mystical canyons of redwoods floating with mist. We also feel like we've pretty much covered the Central Coast so will fast track it south from SF. Anyone ITT know where is best to stay for exploring the Redwoods? Eureka and Arcata look pretty grim but I guess that's to be expected, and I don't mind a little of that. We've also never been to Muir Woods, despite living in the Bay for 4 years, and I have a soft spot for the Sonoma Coast so wouldn't mind revisiting Point Reyes. Anywhere else we should consider?

Thanks!

Furthermore, all the things that I think of as quintessentially Californian (with a couple of exceptions: hippies, for one) all have their genesis in SoCal culture.

Sky Saxon of the Seeds coined the term "flower children" and the Sunset Strip scene was happening before anything was going on in SF. The scene up there only took off once they started shutting down clubs on the Strip and people started moving up north. So LA should get credit/blame for hippies too.

if you do Tahoe, have breakfast at the Squeeze Inn in Truckee. a) Truckee's pretty freaking delightful and b) excellent omlettes etc - though don't go on the weekend or you'll have to wait forever to get in.

and the Donner Party memorial at Donner State Park (just outside Truckee) is a good photo op

eureka and arcata are great!

I mean they're like alright places or w/e but they're great jumping off points for seeing redwoods idk

but then again I dont know about the lolweather right now

I'm not too picky about weather

we used to camp up somewhere near the Redwood State Forest, goddamn it's beautiful up there

but that was, like, 8 years ago so I'm really no help at all :/

Have any of you ever heard Northern California referred to as "No Cal"? I just got a memo from a colleague in our Irvine office referring to some Bay Area projects that way.

prop 13 is bad but if it were repealed for standard homeowners the vast majority of them in california would go bankrupt, most likely, such is the rate of real estate inflation in parts of this state. I believe they are now working on looking to repeal it for certain business transactions.

bump?

the only good city in california is san diego

eh

what are you basing that on, sleepingbag?

# of people who can be trolled in california w/ one line

iatee otm.

Have any of you ever heard Northern California referred to as "No Cal"?

I may have heard it years ago on *gulp* sports talk radio.

I divide california up into left and right cal. it's such a so cal thing to do.

prop 13 is bad but if it were repealed for standard homeowners the vast majority of them in california would go bankrupt

I highly doubt that