having friends who don't know anything about anything and are into really lame shit c/d

hanging out with friends the last couple of days and noticing: one reading tuesdays with morrie, wearing a dave matthews shirt, another listening to war child cd constantly and giving me a blank look when i for some reason mentioned hunter s thompson. and there's been lots of other things and i wonder if it goes deeper than any particular clue, and whether such (to me) massive blind spots and seemingly passively-determined tastes are indicative of a profound incuriousness, and more importantly, to what extent does that matter, will it start to matter more over time, etc. really it only manifests itself when some kind of topical thing comes up, when they usually offer the most boring kind of received wisdom, if anything.

i know i sound like an asshole and i guess this thread could be trouble on a few fronts: the type of things i notice they are clueless about are by necessity things i'm interested in, so it's not really a fair representation of them maybe. and i probably sound like i think im really tuned in, when really i just spend a lot of time on the internet (but also reading and listening and digging deeper into things that seem like they might be interesting bc it's an interesting world i think). and i can't help comparing them to ilx but is that level of engagement too much to ask? am i really that far off to think books like tuesdays with morrie or whatever are usually read by someone who decides to read a book, but has no interests to pursue so just grabs something to fill a gap.

i know this is some tired strawmanning but ftr im less interested in bad taste, which i can even respect and which is subjective regardless, than a lack of curiousity about the world. not knowing hunter thompson struck me not because im a huge stan or anything but because i dont really understand how a 26 year old dude who is my friend could never have heard of him. and then, if you haven't even heard about, say, him, how much of what i say to you drops into some contextless void and why are we even talking about things.

it just seems like in an age where everything is available, to play such a tiny role in what you end up spending your leisure time on is...odd, and lazy, and maybe important enough to consider.

so, similar stories? does it matter?

http://progressiveboink.com/archive/peanuts-by-charles-bukowski

friends happen in a very curious manner, and not always because of the same exact interests. sometimes, you keep the friends you do for other reasons: love, comfort, familiarity, a sense of family. being curious about the world is wonderful, but not every friendship is going to be an amalgam of shared passions and insights. i try to be grateful for what i do share with my friends, at the same time that i understand their limitations, and my need for different people in life.

wait until you have kids. They haven't heard of anything!

This is one of the major reasons I can't make many friends. Too many people - who aren't unintelligent - just seem to not really know much and its due to a lack of curiosity or interest in the world around them. I mean, I'll bring up shit I learned in fucking junior high about world history or science and they'll be like "how did you get so smart?" I just want to stand up and yell at them:

"BECAUSE I WAS A LONELY AND SOCIALLY AWKWARD TEENAGER WHO ACTUALLY PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS - IN AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOL NO LESS WHERE THE CURRICULUM IS FUCKING ONE-THIRD THE COMPLEXITY OF ANY OTHER WESTERN INDUSTRIAL NATION! HOW THE FUCK DID YOU GET SO STUPID?!?!?"

But I don't. I just sit there and go "oh I don't know. I guess I just read a lot." I don't really mind, but apparently other people don't want to hang out with some "super genius" like myself who make them feel stupid because I can make an off the cuff joke about the 3/5ths compromise and they don't know what that is.

xpost
get new kids!

Can't you just enjoy 0.6 of the conversation?

everyone has different talents, and intelligences. i try to remember that.

i don't know who hunter thompson is, even though i've heard the name. but i'm a kickass judge of character and i can write a decent melody if i want to.

Oh yeah, that is totes key. OTOH that doesn't mean I want to bro down with all of them.

xp

I have felt that way about my friends sometimes, too, Rent. I think it's a matter of intelligence. Some people just do not have a curious outlook on life and don't take an interest in learning things about the world and they come off as boring to those of us who do. It's not that they don't know about certain things, it's that they don't feel any drive TO know.

even "smart" people have gaps in knowledge about subjects they supposedly "should" know about.

it's not a good excuse to condescend to other people imo.

body odor is a good excuse though

sometimes, you keep the friends you do for other reasons

this is basically it. the friends i'm talking about are great for going out and getting drunk and into trouble, and they are genuinely good people who i know would have my back in a second and who i would probably turn to first if i had to. and then i've also had the experience of having friends whose interests are so in concert that you run out of stuff to talk about for the opposite reason.

but it can be annoying because you do have to try not to come across as a dick when eg a buddy tells you to check out the celestine prophecy replete with fake backstory. which actually happened recently and is not isolated in its innanity.

i just wonder whether, without alcohol or some common diversion, we would actually have much to say to each other, and whether that matters. i wonder i wonder.

xpost. i really try not to condescend. i know this thread seems to suggests otherwise. xxp lol tru

I remember being ruined in a 10th grade car because I didn't know who Don Henley was.

yea, but common diversions are what friends do. and friends drink together. that doesn't mean your connections aren't valid.

This is one of the major reasons I can't make many friends. Too many people - who aren't unintelligent - just seem to not really know much and its due to a lack of curiosity or interest in the world around them.

http://blogs.skokielibrary.info/studio/files/2009/03/animalcollective.jpg

surmounter is otm, but i think rent is onto something about lack of curiosity / questions about the world / self-questioning / really wondering about things and looking at them in new lights. i don't think it's a question of intelligence that differentiates people who tend to be like that and people who don't, it's more about character, and if anything, although i prefer to talk to / interact with people who are open to new experience and more importantly really think about it and interrogate it, sometimes a person who doesn't do that as much is better at other equally important things and they know it and don't feel the need to change. i feel like i need that satisfaction and stasis in some people to balance the searching but unsatisfied qualities in others and myself.

i've been thinking about this because i met this guy at a bar last weekend, ended up talking with him at ihop afterwards. nice, decent person, but he was sort of hot topic-y in how he viewed himself vs. "normal" gay culture. i'd rather be friends with a self-confident queen than with someone who halfway justifies being "underground" without really thinking about it.

my best friend is totally different than that -- straight, kind of a yuppie, or maybe a "YIPSTER," I don't know -- who got a jazz composition degree (LOL) and has been working the same serving job / looking like the same late 90s Gap model for years. even though he tends toward certain mainstream-ish tastes, he does it out of instinct, and the rest of his life he ends up scrutinizing and questioning in an engaged way. i love talking to this guy because i get hit with a lot of insights, some bordering on larry-david-trivial, some with real depth, and even though he doesn't share some of my taste and sometimes comes across as a little closed or prudish or snobbish, he's really smart and engaged, and i appreciate him more for that.

Why are *you* into the stuff you're into? If it's just for the pleasure of a funny story or a popular tune, maybe your friends get the same things out of the lame stuff they like? Mainstream stuff has a lot of merits anyway, it's generally more professional and reliable, and the ability to share it with a wider society is pretty cool.

With cool and obscure stuff though, a lot of the appeal is knowing things other people don't. It's kind of fun to at least think condescending, if not to actually be condescending - you're right that that's an easy way to sound like an asshole. But there are certain things that cool stuff can't give you, and by definition a large-scale communal experience is one of these. It's having your cake and eating it to want other people to independently get into the same nooks you've painstakingly hollowed out for yourself.

Plus, once you discovered e.g. a place like ILX where it's pretty hard to outcool your peers, that pressure's kind of off and you can just enjoy stuff for the sake of it. Having said that, I can get a similar kind of kick today out of being into totally mainstream stuff, now that most of the people I know have developed niche interests to some extent. It's quite fun to big up U2 to a serious rock fan, for totally valid reasons, or Pizza Express to a foodie.

far as the title of the post, i wouldn't say that about anybody i am friends with. but something i miss terribly from grad school world (which was otherwise hell on earth) was getting into serious discussions about literature/philosophy/cinema with a couple people there. over unbelievably amazingly excellent senegalese food + lots of coffee and cigarettes. sadly each of them's on the opposite side of the country now.. and i find i don't push myself so much anymore to keep up on these things because i don't sit around and talk about them. and i think they're perpetual students just to actually stay in a world where most people are engaged with the same things. i sometimes run into a guy from my undergrad who's always been pretty intense about these fields but he's the kind of person.. known him for a long time and he's hardly a bit less distant than he was in the late 90's. oh well.

I'm always trying to find friends who keep pursuing their education after they're finished with school by teaching themselves about different schools of thought and random skillz. A good friend is hard to find!

for me though on this point it's less about where your tastes lie as the their depth and breadth or lack thereof. obviously your interests are partially a product of your surroundings, especially in the beginning. but at some point i dont understand how you dont at least try to take some initiative. i have friends whose tastes haven't budged since high school, so that they still have the same 20 pearl jam and red hot chili peppers albums on constant rotation. i dont know how someone could stand that, even without the thought occurring "i must be missing tons of good stuff."

xpost to ismael

i've stuck with my closest friend of.. wau, nearly two decades, but have the impression a lot of the time she's thinking, god, you're weird.

i have friends whose tastes haven't budged since high school
this! i should talk, though, i'm currently listening to the new jack swing i was into in middle school/early high school XD

Yeah, ok rent, I don't get that either. I had a similar experience with some university friends that I've long planned to write about here, actually. Britpop was the big thing through my student days, but had obviously died by the time I left, and at that time there were a few UK developments jockeying to take over. Garage was one of these, so I went to see Craig David when he was getting popular. I happened to bump into university friends, mentioned that I'd been to the concert, and took massive abuse for it - from people who were still buying Oasis albums and going to Shed Seven reunion tours! I've never understood this.

im worried that it sounds like im stressing about whether i can remain friends with someone who still likes pearl jam, which isn't the point of course. its that they still ONLY like pearl jam because they dont care and what if anything that says about them nore broadly, and whether this internet nerd/english grad has a meaningful future with them or whether it will just get more strained over time.

ha, daria, obv new jack swing is still cool

hunter s thompson? how adorable. have you read marek hlasko's _the eighth day of the week_? now THERE was a badass. they called him the "communist james dean," you know.

yeah ismael i have friends who will still fly across the country to see oasis and while asking them whether they think its not premature to start going down memory lane at the exclusion of all other avenues wouldn't change anything obviously, i worry (a little) that if oasis keeps playing for the next 40 years they'll keep going to see them and talking about them, i guess in part to try and recapture some happy high school memories or to commemorate the Nth anniversary of when their tastes stopped developing, and ill have to sit through dinner parties filled with this kind of thing, which maybe i can liveblog here.

I feel like this is so much less of a problem for me than it was in high school - I'm not sure whether this is cause most everybody went to college, or because wikipedia was invented

guys for every one of your friends that you think "what a weiner, he still listens to oasis" about, there's two dudes lurking on this forum that think you guys are square losers because you know of the right Modeselektor 12"s.

*DON'T know of the right Modeselektor 12"s.

Both versions of your point work!

haha, yep!

no one has the responsilibity to seek out "new" and "exciting" things. that urge is completely voluntary, and is usually mostly fueled by posturing to show off to other people that do.

my mom has a fit if i bring home a movie with subtitles. i still love my mom.

To a certain extent. But some folks have naturally short attention spans and voracious cultural appetites.

xp

My best friends don't read much and have okay tastes in music, but they're witty and curious about the world. What else do I need?

I just don't understand this obsession with taste: I want arguments not opinions. What's more important than taste is judgment.

But I don't. I just sit there and go "oh I don't know. I guess I just read a lot." I don't really mind, but apparently other people don't want to hang out with some "super genius" like myself who make them feel stupid because I can make an off the cuff joke about the 3/5ths compromise and they don't know what that is

No offense, but this is just creepy.

guys for every one of your friends that you think "what a weiner, he still listens to oasis" about, there's two dudes lurking on this forum that think you guys are square losers because you know of the right Modeselektor 12"s

That would be a fair and amusing point, except that we're not talking about obscure stuff, I was taking abuse for liking the new, popular, groundbreaking-thing-that-the-kids-are-into - i.e. what Oasis were five years earlier. I had thought that was why my contemporaries got so excited about it at the time, but evidently I was wrong (and I still occasionally take abuse for it now, ten years later!)

What iatee says is right though - I'd've been annoyed about it when I was a kid, now I just find it a bit bewildering. Plus I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not really dignified for a grown adult to care so much about this stuff (ahem)

Plus, once you discovered e.g. a place like ILX where it's pretty hard to outcool your peers, that pressure's kind of off and you can just enjoy stuff for the sake of it. Having said that, I can get a similar kind of kick today out of being into totally mainstream stuff, now that most of the people I know have developed niche interests to some extent. It's quite fun to big up U2 to a serious rock fan, for totally valid reasons, or Pizza Express to a foodie.

i've noticed this reversal lately where friends who are now married dads are really into deep music like radiohead and my morning jacket. it can be pretty fun to argue with them about coldplay even though i don't really like the band in the first place.

Whiney G. Weingarten, you must live in Brooklyn. In other parts of the world people are enthusiastic about art and music because they like it. A lot of times these people are older than 25 or a little more mature, and they've come to the realization that the cool game is a stupid reason to do anything.

Holla!

Is Pizza Express a faster version of PIzza Hut?
I've never heard of anyone ironically enjoying bad food. Collecting it and used for hazing, maybe.
The bad food would have the last laugh.

Pizza Express is perfectly nice! There's nothing ironic about liking it, you get a decent pizza and I've had lots of good evenings eating there. It's just that no-one who took food seriously would love it - it'd be like having, say, INXS as your favourite band

if you were a rock critic

Pizza Express should use "What You Need" in an ad campaign

Whiney G. Weingarten, you must live in Brooklyn.

lol

i have a beard too fyi

Good thread.
A few things
1) Rent, in the OP does your friend listen to War Child by Jethro Tull?
2) About people who play the same old music: Have you ever been on ILM and looked at the whatcha listening to threads, or rolling ____ 2009 threads. I haven't heard 99% of the stuff mentioned. It is daunting to try to be on the music bandwagon when there is millions of artists.. and giving each artist a fair listen would take about an hour at a time. Yesterday I went in one of those 'favorite albums of 2009' threads and actually decided to pick a band and go to their myspace and hear one or two songs by them. Before yesterday I had pretty much given up on finding new bands because the task is so tedious.
3) I does appear that some friends don't have a soul when they don't care for music (except maybe DMB) and they don't discuss anything the slightest bit philosophy related. But 'not having a soul' is obviously an understatement. I don't discuss much 'big life issue' things either. I haven't read Hunter S. Thompson but I sure do love Jack Kerouac.
4) I would like to be that 'genius' because he remembers the stuff from puclic school. Last night I clarified that what my friend just explained is Dramatic Irony. He thought I was smart. I only remember the names of 2 of the 3 types of Irony: dramatic and situational.

5) I'm not going to give a similar story about friends who aren't big picture people and therefor don't seem to share the same interest in life (and music) as I do. But people here already mentioned that what we got with our friends is still pretty good. Sharing insights, humor, lust for babes, friends, hobbies/entertainment is still pretty good. I know that's not what the OP wants to talk about. I think OP wants to know how some people are the way they are. HA! Okay I do have a story. I have a friend who listens to classical music until college. Sometimes he thinks that my obscure tastes are ways of showing off. Sure I love to play my music for other people, but mostly I do it because I rather be listening to band ______ than classical music in the car. Also I would love to turn someone on to new music. Not to show off, but so people can understand where I'm coming from half the time.

I used to know someone who wouldn't listen to any music that was more that two years old. He was also a major coke head. Hey maybe the two things were related...

^^^ has to mean CONTROVERSIAL MODERATOR EDIT

Oh god, some people, not my friends, wouldn't recognize a popular Led Zeppelin song because they only listen to current radio rock and hiphop. What can we say about these people. The ones that used to blast Korn in their cars, but now they have some similar substitute band. Variations of these people make up a majority of people my age. What can we say about them?

THEY SHOULD BE STERILISED. NASTY NAUGHTY PEOPLE

I think it gets easier as you get older. It's not that you become more boring, but life catches up to you such that it's not just music, literature, intellectual or aesthetic stuff that occupies your thoughts. You end up having to deal with health problems, malfunctioning appliances, money stuff, politics, the "pragmatic bullshit" that bored you to tears as an adolescent when your parents and relatives went on about these things at holiday meals. Maybe that's just me ... But I do notice as I've gotten older, and I tend to think of myself as someone that is intellectually curious, that I'm more interested in the "normals" than I was in my mid-twenties when I was more likely to write them off as "lame." I'm interested in why they like what they like, how they perceive their lives as meaningful, etc.

That's it. Also, there's so much pleasure to be had in the lame/normal stuff itself, it's a whole new world to discover.

Occasionally hanging out with my family is more than enough exposure to normals for me. I do not need to know which Josh Groban album is the best, thank you very much. Got that covered.

I'm just saying that it's easier for me to relate to them as I get older, not that I'm jettisoning my underground network in favor of hanging with the normals. I also don't have any desire to go back to previous jobs where most of my coworkers were normals.

Mod Skeletors?

No offense, but this is just creepy.

Why?

Mod Skeletors vs. Rocker He Men

I think actually what I most seek and like in a friend is someone earnest and with a good heart. They're hard to find (in part bcz sometimes they are shy). I've given up on anyone sharing my obsessive niches, tho it's nice when they do.

Actually at my knitting party group everyone is so fully stoked on each other (& their knitting projects & progress) that no one gives a fuck about anyone's politics/views/life paths/tastes, etc. It is pretty insane and I've never been in a group where people all liked each other bcz they have one activity they're doing together at the same time.

Maybe this is why people like activities and interests!

No offense, but this is just creepy.

Why?

If the OP walks around acting smug, no wonder he has trouble making friends.

deep music like radiohead and my morning jacket.

i didnt say the supposedly creepy thing btw nor do i walk around acting

and i have many friends!

...YOU!

no just kidding i have lots of friends

on my ipod

i have lots of friends

IN MY MIND

This thread is really depressing.

There isn't really any way to express an opinion like this without coming across as, at best, a bit patronising.

There's no winning in this world.

xp noodle: unless you're 15, and then you come across as an average teenager.

There's no fathoming the depths of another person's mind, I'm thinking.

xp yeah I was gonna give a caveat about most of us feeling this way when we're that age.

oh, i didnt want it to be depressing. i thought it might be interesting to talk about. i just had a bunch of these moments lately.

anyway i think

I'm interested in why they like what they like, how they perceive their lives as meaningful, etc.

― giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:29 PM (1 hour ago)

That's it. Also, there's so much pleasure to be had in the lame/normal stuff itself, it's a whole new world to discover.

― Ismael Klata, Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:34 PM (1 hour ago)

is a good attitude

xposts

There isn't really any way to express an opinion like this without coming across as, at best, a bit patronising.

i realized this going in and considered not pressing submit but i think it's being dealt with well. i know ive already said it, but i meant this to be not about what you like, but whther someone even has the impulse to actively engage with the world (granted, nostly cultural stuff) and whether that matters when it comes to the people you choose to hang around with.

I think feeling that you don't have much in common with your friends is something people encounter throughout their lives though, even into one's "twilight years" when you don't have much in common with your friends because they are dead.

There are lots and lots and lots of different cultural worlds, is the thing. Most of them kind of semi-closed to most of us.

"lame shit"

I like how Modeselektor are this thread's poster boys for involved cultural interest

only for people with beards.

I guess the question could be less assumptively posed as "Do you like your friends to be like you?" in which I'd say most of my friends are probably quite different to me.

http://gothamist.com/attachments/arts_jen/0409griftertattoo.jpg

but NV it seems like the cultural world these particular friends exist in is open to everyone bc its made up of whatever is lying most prominently on the surface of the mass culture landscape at a given time, which indicates etc etc

but i see what you're saying, mine isnt special or better necessarily.

Popular things are popular.

i don't really have close friends like this... i feel like the acquaintances i know whom i'd describe this way keep me at arms' length cuz they think i'm weird.

i.e., i already know i'm "different" from the vast majority of people but this is only really a problem when i get the sense those people have made their mind up about me. i don't bite! i can talk about everyday stuff. show me pictures of your dog!

You have summed it up nicely, my experience.

Tho I know you were in fact summing up your own.

some of the best conversations i have are with strangers on the bus.

Ha, me too except the one time when said stranger ended up physically assaulting me.

I don't care what crap you put on the stereo if yr party's great.

That said, when you're talking with some people who aren't that curious, when you hit politics or something you'll often find this really unexamined opinion and get surprised. Strangers like this are often types I find myself thinking "christ, they need a good ILXing to stop them saying this shit".

I don't really mind if people show no interest or don't know anything about something I'm talking about. It's only when people get angry that you're talking "over their heads" that really annoys me. Especially when you have just patiently listened to them recall their favorite parts of South Park for the past 10 minutes.

burt_renton

i.e., i already know i'm "different" from the vast majority of people but this is only really a problem when i get the sense those people have made their mind up about me. i don't bite! i can talk about everyday stuff. show me pictures of your dog!

― MRSA Marchant (get bent), Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:47 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^Feelin this! It usually takes something like a work situation, where proximity is forced, for "normal" people who have me all figured out to change their minds. The last job I had, one of my coworkers I'd become real friendly with came out and apologized one night. I didn't know about it, obviously, but the day I came in to hand in my application, right after I left, I guess he'd told the boss not to hire me...that I'd be a dud employee, he recognized right away that I was sorta weird. (He wasn't *totally* wrong, I *am* teh goon.) But it took actually being forced to engage with one another to sort of level the disparity and make him realize that even though on the surface I was "different", and we have different interests, that I was not only a good employee but actually a really good guy, easy to get along with, etc. "show me pictures of your dog the fish you caught!" And so on.

What ZS said, too. What's frustrating for me is that although I'm of above average intelligence, it's nothing special and I am very far from gifted. So when I get guff like "there you go again usin words I've never even heard", I feel like they're going out of their way to widen the gap that makes me feel kinda displaced around most people to begin with. I mean-- gap isn't all that wide=this should take little or probably NO effort to bridge, but you're treating me with this weird hostility cuz I used a word that I'm pretty sure I learned from TV.

Haha, whooa. Thats a long post for me.

I just drank a whole lotta coffee.

That particular work friend might actually be a bad example, he was only a regular huntin and fishin sort of dude on the surface. Was a pretty smart guy, built his own lures (and started his own small business), made his own crazy full body camo' suit, worked on engines to propel rockets, etc. Totally quirky sense of humor, natural curiosity, probably the opposite of what this thread is concerned with.

I just talk as I do and take people as they are. Last night at a party I ended up talking to the father of an acquaintance who's an NRA member and AFAIK is generally a pretty hard right kind of guy and we spent most of the night getting on and swapping stories about the military (via my dad's experience), drinks and overseas travel. Just be yourself and be social and friendly as suits you best, the rest follows.

guys for every one of your friends that you think "what a weiner, he still listens to oasis" about, there's two dudes lurking on this forum that think you guys are square losers because you know of the right Modeselektor 12"s.

This is the most inadvertently hilarious thing I've ever read on ILX/M.

I just talk as I do and take people as they are. Last night at a party I ended up talking to the father of an acquaintance who's an NRA member and AFAIK is generally a pretty hard right kind of guy and we spent most of the night getting on and swapping stories about the military (via my dad's experience), drinks and overseas travel. Just be yourself and be social and friendly as suits you best, the rest follows.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, May 3, 2009 4:30 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah that's a pretty good rule of thumb and it's generally what I try to do. Growing up as sort of an oddball in a closely knit family, many of whom are pretty right/hard right, kinda socialize me to deal with these differences early on. I'm can be somewhat of a social goomba so I think this helped me out a great deal.

I'm all smiles until someone says something shockingly racist. And then I'm still all smiles, but I feel terrible about it. :(

This thread touches on a lot of the reasons I find Facebook so fascinating. It's very interesting to hold a life's worth of friends and acquaintances at arm's length like that, to engage them casually (or be engaged by them) and sort out who's sharp, who's dull, who's different that you remember and who's shockingly the same, who's gotten weary-looking and who's gotten better looking. The difference for me is always, as several people have said, intellectual curiosity. It's obvious even from a bit of brief chat, usually, who has remained interested in life and who has accepted a level of defeat. It's not about listening to the coolest new music or reading the best kinds of books (though I do take those as good signs, generally), it's... how can I put it? It's the difference between someone making a witty, insightful comment vs. retelling a big knee-slapper they recently heard. One of my high school friends recently took the time to hand-write a many-paged letter and send it to me. I think that's fantastic, since there's no practical reason he needed to do that. Some people are just more *engaged* than others.

Some people are just more *engaged* than others

It can be hard to judge. I occasionally get into an embarrassing situation where I'll be talking to someone and they'll express an interest in something e.g. "I'm a massive Beatles fan". I'll respond by telling them how brilliant I think Revolver is, and to show my enthusiasm for their interest I'll explain why a little bit. It then immediately becomes clear that they don't know there's an album called Revolver and have never heard of the songs I've just mentioned - to them, being a massive fan involves having half The Red Album on a tape for the car. I'm never sure where to take these conversations

I always find it good not to hold people to my own level of aspie-ness about stuff. Though I've never owned a single Beatles album and I know they have one called Revolver, so otoh that is pretty weird.

Right now I've got a lady staying in my house. She's in her 50s, and I feel more relaxed around her than I do around the students on my course much closer to my age (I'm 29, most of the studes are 21).

Perhaps cos the students want to party and I really can't be bothered these days. I've been very happy talking with the lady about cooking, the ceramic stuff I've made that I've got dotted around my house, mature studenting, travel, camping, our partners, fun stuff.

I don't think any vaguely socially-skilled person in my position would be all "wot you're not into minimal house? wow, looooozzzzeer!" cos we are programmed to not be wowed by these massively common generational differences. What is maybe more interesting is how much we've got in common. And in this case it seems to be a relaxed, positive approach to things.

Otm about fb, kenan. I'm never keen to fill in Favourite Books or Favourite Movies sections cos I'm, like, "what? this is still a prerequisite for Getting On?". I'm likely - if not more likely - to want to engage with someone who doesn't share my interests, right? True, the stuff I like says something about me but not... everything. And nor does it diminish my interest in somoene NOT into that stuff. Variety is the spice and all that.

Some people are just more *engaged* than others.

i.e. people planning to get married!

they don't know there's an album called Revolver and have never heard of the songs I've just mentioned - to them, being a massive fan involves having half The Red Album on a tape for the car. I'm never sure where to take these conversations

"You haven't heard Revolver? Oh man you should check it out. Anyway. How 'bout them Mets?"

It's a funny issue. Some of my oldest friends don't really share my interests at all, except something general like football or whatever, but I think when it's a long friendship you just show interest in what your friend is into and that means a lot. I know I always really like it when friends ask about something I know they have zero interest in, or even better when you can tell they're interested cos they know it's important to you.

Then there are friends I have who I've met through music or having a really big interest in going DJing or to clubs or whatever and on some levels this can seem like more of a friendship. It's probably just different though. I have a few friends who I will talk about music with non stop everytime I see them, but somehow the discussions seem to be about everything/anything at the exact same time. An interest is just a filter to getting to know someone the same way you would anyway, really.

I definitely sometimes feel "why am I the only one I know who likes x/y/z" but no doubt my friends feel the same. I can understand the OP's point if he feels trapped by friends just completely not getting his own interests or being v different.

On that specific point, people who seem not into anything, I often mentally divide people into two groups, those who think about things and want to think about new ways to talk about things (whatever they're into) and those who don't.

I have a surprising amount of friendships that revolve around South Park

Otm about fb, kenan.

Randy became a fan of Protect Marriage: One Man, One Woman. · Comment · Like

I have kinda a changed perspective on this because I quite suddenly stopped loving music about 2-3 three years ago - I still enjoy it but the feelings that made it seem worth obsessing over more or less vanished. The last genre I managed to get into was contempory classical but I just don't at all have the urge to seek new stuff - in fact when people have recommended it I have acted enthused out of habit but actually just gone and listened to steve reich again.

I have thought a lot about the role of work in all this - there's a kind of job that makes you the right blend of neutral to do play WoW or follow sports, but not at all to hear new things?

I don't really mind if people show no interest or don't know anything about something I'm talking about. It's only when people get angry that you're talking "over their heads" that really annoys me. Especially when you have just patiently listened to them recall their favorite parts of South Park for the past 10 minutes.

This. This.

This.

I have a surprising amount of friendships that revolve around South Park

Get out of Boulder. GET OUT OF BOULDER!

I may have told this story on another thread (probably the "Boulder - city of the neverending nightmare" thread), but I knew I was in trouble the very first time the guy I was staying with for the summer had friends over. Things were going ok, we had a little Sublime blasting out of the speakers, we were in the middle of the 4th game of beer pong, people were shooting arrows at nearby buildings (!!!) - and then I made the mistake of mentioning that I had heard that something like 10% of paper currency had traces of feces on it. I said it just like that.

After a Jack Benny pause, some guy goes "...dude...did he just say CURRENCY....and TRACES...in the same sentence?"

Later I heard whispers about how the new guy visiting for the summer from Cornell was all elitist and full of himself.

lol.

http://i44.tinypic.com/smbx5l.jpg

"Yeah, man, this is a pretty sweet song. Classic"
"Totally. One of their best."
"Yeah, I used to play this all the time senior year. It never gets old for though, y'know."
"Oh, I know. I don't think I've ever stopped either."
"I just downloaded an acoustic version that's really pretty. I'll play it for you when we're in my car next time."
"I'd like to hear that."
"Hey guys, did you know 10 percent of all u.s. currency in circulation had microscopic traces of human feces?"
"..."

"why does everyone hate me?...I like hot dogs!"

I have got catholic tastes in friends but the people whose company I enjoy most are those with colossal appetites, people who will eat anything and with relish. This also works as a metaphor.

lol.

i think this thread might have prompted me to start singing 'Tractor Rape Chain' in my head this morning.

in other words, you like those who can deep=throat?

I don't mind at all if people don't know things I do - there'll be plenty they know that I don't, inevitably! Ususally TV related things, as my TV's semi on the blink so I just gave up watching it and watched DVDs instead.

So its cool if they've never heard of Pavement or whatever, I just wont talk about bands - and its cool if Ive never seen Lost.

But if someone asks me if Ive seen Lost (for eg) and I say no, I dont then want 3 hours of discourse about how awesome it is in great plot detail. neither do I want a workmate telling me, every single day, that I must see Twilight and why havent I seen it yet? Give it a rest, already.

These days I'm more interested in gardening and cooking than keeping up with music and arts, but I am starting to do a lot more non fiction reading. If anything, I'm surrounded by people who know way *more* than I do :/

Tractor Rape Chain, table person, we would be great friends... I can tell because u like that one song :)
My favorite song on that album is Smothered in Hugs because the singing is so powerful to me on that song and I like to pretend that the song is about me. What is your favorite song on that album table person?

----------------------
I have noticed that my bestest friends are the ones that genuinely appreciate being my friend. That guy that loves baseball and can talk to strangers with such ease; that guy that is a bit of a nerd but we always can find something to do when we hang out; that guy who quotes dave chappelle and has tons of normal friends but thinks it's absolutely great when he hangs out with me (for some reason); in the past there was a guy who was more the weirdo than I could ever be but he was so in tune with people around him and was obviously emo even if never chose to display any emotions; the guy that is always busy but loves it when you tag along his daily errands and you end up eventually watching a movie; the guy that is hyperactive; the club guy that is your partner in crime; it all goes back to them genuinely wanting to be with me and there is no better friend than that. I genuinely want to be with them, even though we share only a few things in common.

Mulvaney, it is either 'Tractor Rape Chain' or 'Goldheart Mountaintop Queen Directory.' i think this stems from the period when i most listened to GBV, which was during a particularly difficult and alcoholic point of my life. i lost a lot of great friends to drugs and bullshit, essentially. Tractor Rape Chain still kind of makes me nostalgic enough to cry, which is rare.

My best friends are all over the place, too-- political junkies who dig disco beats on the side, crit-theory heads who are also sex workers, lighting designers who i eat brunch and watch derek jarman movies with, the bike kids (there are a lot of them!), crazy performance artists who reek of disgusting but attack me with hugs whenever we're hanging, basketball jock girls who love dancing to reggaeton and doing drugs with me, etc. etc.

i guess that i do sort of try to surround myself with people who are 'intelligent' and 'interesting,' but they don't have to be intelligent or interesting in the same way that i might be, or try to be. (i have, like, three friends who are poets. have a lot of professor/mentor types who are awesome, but none of them are quite 'best friend' material because their lives are more settled).

and BTW, i figured that i should explain my name: it is from the poem 'Alakanak Break-Up' by Mei-mei Berssenbrugge.

I have some great friends who read shit like Dan Brown and Jodi Picoult, but then OTOH they're also waaaay better travelled than me, and probably better human beings, if I'm being honest.

Do they want to go to space?

will never understand why so many people on ilx seem to genuinely dislike their friends. it's not like we're still in primary school, if you don't like someone for whatever reason it's fine, and you don't actually have to be friends with them.

like, i wouldn't be friends with anyone who actually held views similar to the thread starter's. it's close-minded, un-selfaware dickishness of the highest order. nothing defensible about it whatsoever. just a really lame way of trying to assert superiority over people who are, as likely as not, as invested in their interests as you are in yours. still, would absolutely think less of anyone who tried to hold hunter s thompson up as some sort of cultural standard, jesus.

"Hey guys, did you know 10 percent of all u.s. currency in circulation had microscopic traces of human feces?"

if u said this my response would have been "..." too

But wait, that wasn't what I said! That was Whiney's version of it. And it wasn't a total non sequitur, either.

sigh.

will never understand why so many people on ilx seem to genuinely dislike their friends

Actually I dont think anyone at all has said this!

x-post -- Well what exactly did you expect us to think when you told that story! (I mean, I am wondering why they reacted more to the words 'currency' and 'traces' more than 'feces.')

I guess I'll go with the good ol' "you had to be there" excuse, complemented by the "I wish I had video recorded what happened so you'd believe me!" argument from 2nd grade.

Zac I used to blurt out random wtf shit to my schoolfriends all the time, I wouldnt worry about it :)

I'll just take the whole experience as another reason to really value the friends I have who willingly put up with my nonsense on a daily basis!

Blurtsy McBlurbins

hmm, the table is the table, where do you live?! has to be a new york thing, right.

xp daria: or San Francisco

could be providence? ptown is all right. tell me it's some cool city in the south. i couldn't move north again (exception: NYC)

woah lex :/ youve misread what ive intended here, both in letter and spirit, on pretty much every count. i feel like i could refute most of your accusations just by reposting things ive already said in this thread!

Yeah I dont get where he got that idea either, most everyone said "my friends like x y z and its a bit shit but I love them dearly and wouldnt be without them".

Why does any currency have traces of feces? Cocaine, I could understand...

People: they don't wash their hands.

Yeah if you think thats bad PP, dont ever think about dishes of free peanuts at the bar...

Just eat' em. Puts hair on yr chest!

"..." vs. just rolling w/ a silly non sequitur (It WAS after a few rounds of beer pong dudes)

(If hypothetically we're taking it as a non sequitur, which it evidently wasn't...anyhoo...)

"beer pong" sounds like how you end up after drinking too much and spilling half of a pint on your trousers and going home reeking of too many German weisbeirs.

^Beer pong will do this to you.

Substitute "Bud Lights" for "German weisbeirs" and yeah, sounds about right.

The friends I see and talk to regularly nowadays became my friends partly due to proximity. My roommates, a few local college friends, coworkers I get along with really well, a few friends from high school who live nearby or phone often...it's really just happy coincidence that we all happened to be in the same place at the same time, and if we hadn't, I'd probably have different friends. It has a lot more to do with luck, and compatible personalities, than common interests.

Also, I think liking what's "cool" and "new" doesn't necessarily link up with being curious about the world any more than being into "really lame shit." Case in point: the only music I've been able to get really excited about in the past year has been either Scandinavian metal or pretty traditional folk, and most of what I listen to is new to me without actually being NEW. On the other hand, my roommate who considers herself a music snob is very plugged into new indie music, obscure bands, new albums, and "good taste," and I know she considers what I listen to "really lame shit" and kind of embarrassing. The thing is, even though most of her music is very new, I am not interested because I find most of what she plays too boring and similar to music I stopped liking a few years ago. It just all sounds too much like Belle & Sebastian and the Postal Service, I'd rather listen to some more exciting death metal or depressing blues. I guess my point is that you can be interested in new things and still come off as pretty narrow in your tastes, or you can get really excited about things that are new to you and still come off as really lame, so we should probably give each other a break.

I know what you mean, Maria. There's nothing I find lamer than my contemporaries keeping up with the latest indie stuff, especially when it's every indie band - partly because I was doing that myself fifteen years ago (as were they), but also because I've got to feeling it's not really meant for us - now I'm older, I kind of want bands to try a bit harder, y'know? But then they obviously haven't gone through the same thought process, so when they get in my car and I've got Amy Winehouse or Paul Simon or the Jackson Five, I probably just seem like their Dad

I think the above is a good point but both of you are clearly into stuff, even discussing the very issue here shows that. I am friends with some people with whom I could never discuss things I like in any serious way, people who talk about actions rather than thoughts or ideas, maybe. I think Lex jumped the gun a bit to suggest people are hating on others for this too, there are lots of reasons to be friends with people, or to find someone a good friend, every friend need not have every quality.

I should add I also have friends with whom I do talk about things I like all the time, sometimes in depth. All I can say is as I said above, neither is the be all and end all.

I might reflect on the thread topic a lot more if I didn't live in a major metro area where pop culture and the general level of discussion is pretty hopping. But also I've maybe just collected friends who are all freakishly something about something. Like, probably none of us are "normals", or very few anyway, and they can all at least cross over.

I kind of DON'T know what to do with really "straight" people, but then a lot of that distinction is probably more in my own mind than it is in reality.

yeah that's what I often wonder, is it just being dumb and harsh on people to deem them "normals" or something, but then say my last job I just thought everyone was so different to everyone I knew, and the conversations were weirdly normal, v teenage but I think most of my friends would have felt the same.

as I said above, I always have a dividing line in my head between people who just live seemingly without thought and reflection (and are probably successful as a result) and the people I know, or the person I feel like myself.

It must really suck to walk around assuming you are so much better than the unthinking masses around you all the time. Buy one clue assholes.

I don't think that's what people are saying really to be fair.

^ the irony xp

I showed several people in my program (ie, the only people I really know here) this last week. Nothing. No response. Like, "why would that be funny? What's funny about it?" And of course that was depressing for me because I totally lost my shit the first time I saw that page.

But then again, they would probably categorize me as the "friend who doesn't know about anything and is into really lame shit".

It kinda is though. When you talk about dividing people into "those who think and are curious" and those who don't. It really isn't that simple. Maybe those people that don't go on and on about things they're into just don't give a fuck about impressing you.

(xpost)

lol somebody's sad about their dog dying! fuck THAT asshole!

I mean, just the idea of separating people into "normals" and "straights" involves a whole lot of judging that I'm just not comfortable with tbh. This whole thread just rubs me wrong though.

Maybe those people that don't go on and on about things they're into just don't give a fuck about impressing you.

The point is that they DO think the things they're into are impressive. They're always telling you about the Dave Matthews Band, or wine tastings, or something pretty common like it's very exciting! You can enjoy your friends' and family members' excitement about their lives while still thinking that their pursuits fall into a very narrow range.

I know some people who are really interested or passionate about one thing, or even more than one thing, but are really unwilling to talk about it? Like it's an invasion of privacy, or you're calling them weird. Whereas people who grew up 'indie' wathever that means are way more likely to react to that invitiation like "you want me to show off, really?"

This isn't what Laurel's talking about, though.

Obv the best friend you could have is the Great Spirit of the Wolf, she has yr back. Not sure if they're a normal or a straight though.

The more people I meet, the more I'm convinced that "normal people" don't exist.

The point is that they DO think the things they're into are impressive. They're always telling you about the Dave Matthews Band, or wine tastings, or something pretty common like it's very exciting! You can enjoy your friends' and family members' excitement about their lives while still thinking that their pursuits fall into a very narrow range.

I think this helps me understand a little more what you are getting at, but I still think it involves a whole lot of judging of people simply because their tastes don't align with yours. To pick on one of your specific examples, I have a friend who is way into wine and way knowledgeable about it. He manages to speak about wine in a really fascinating way, without being condescending about in the least - so I'd hardly dismiss his interest in wine as "pretty common".

The more people I meet, the more I'm convinced that "normal people" don't exist.

so OTM

I showed several people in my program (ie, the only people I really know here) this last week. Nothing. No response. Like, "why would that be funny? What's funny about it?"

uh...what is funny about it, though? the dog is kinda cute i guess but i'm thinking that's not what you mean.

jon via chi otm anyway - wtf with labelling people you know as "people who live without thought and reflection"? (and then pretending that that isn't a huge value judgement about them.) none of you lot are all that weird or different, let alone superior, to any given person you write off as "normal".

I thought the terrible layout and full-on unreadability was kind of hilarious.

Has it not been other people's experience that people who are actually, legitimately "different" end up having some severe psychological problems that require constant medication?

badly designed amateur websites aren't exactly hard to come by though. the dog's name was funny but that's kennel names for you.

Oh, not saying it isn't common! Just that I cracked up when I loaded the page.

Sure, jvc! Being REALLY into wine or anything makes you unusual for that thing. Which I said a few posts ago. But people who get excited about, like, going to a wine tasting for the first time because it's new and boundary-pushing, for instance...

This is hard b/c I don't AT ALL mean to say that people shouldn't get excited about things -- what's the point of having a life at all if you can't get all worked up and anticipatory and excited about things? -- but people who recurringly get excited about things that are well within mainstream culture, and share them with you as if they're revolutionary and unique, because they're unaware of the alternatives...or even that there ARE alternatives...is that making any more sense?

Most people are thinking and reflecting all the time, it's the curse of being a sentient being :(

"lack of curiosity" is such an odd criticism from people who are simultaneously totally dismissing their apparently incurious friends' tastes and interests out of hand

this thread reminds me of this poem that joe wrote:

h8 being trapped.
h8 everything about suburbia
h8 my parents
h8 the red bricks on my house
& every other house in my neighborhood.
Today I watched an MGMT music video
and listened to Animal Collective
and also listend 2 Passhy Pit
then cut up my favourite Am Appy shirt
and put some paint on my face

Went outside
all of my neighbors looked at me like I was from another planet
even though they usually give me that look
it made me happie
that I was challenging social norms
and saying ‘eff yall’ 2 them.

I was the most free spirited person
within a 100 mile radius
My mom and dad looked out the window
and looked disappointed

If only they knew
what I wanted 2 do
and the ideas inside of me
which can be converted to art
and be sold 4 a great deal of money

If only they knew
that I am not going to work for an insurance company
in a business park
in a yucky part of town in some cheesy city.

I am trapped in suburbia
1 day
I will get out of this hell hole.
1 day…

I am the next Marc Jacobs/ Jermbro Scott / winner from Projjers Runway.
What’s ur anti-suburbia [via anti-drug]?

I don't really think I wrote anyone off. I actually said maybe those people are smarter rather than stupider, so not judging either, just a matter of different types of people.

x-post it's not really about "friends" lex, I don't consider any friends boring or stupid or any such thing. can't speak for others but I was referring more generally to people you meet/work with etc.

x-post -- Joe the Plumber?

I guess I just picture some of the people posting in the thread to be the type that overhears a co-worker talking about having seen Twilight over the weekend and writing them off forever as "tasteless" and "unthinking".

There is nothing funny about this.

http://www.wolfpack10.com/tuppence/tupp-reflect.gif

Just another tribute to best beloved tuppence imo.

my point is that those people are almost certainly curious about a whole load of things, and do invest time and energy into their interests, it's just that those interests are things which you're not curious about. i dunno, gardening or birdwatching or something.

I have lots of friends (actual friends!) who are clever but have lots of friends themselves, who aren't particularly intellectual and are kinda culturally conservative? Is this controversial, or unsual? So their sense of what is culturally unusual is less extreme than mine, because I have mostly intellectual friends?

I think ZS is kinda trolling here, I felt sorry for the dog guy too, that dog was cute.

Greg, exactly.

If anyone I work with saw Twilight over the weekend they are way, waaaaaay behind the times because the free screening was like 6 mos ago.

Most of the ppl I know who went to see "Twilight" did so to laugh at it.

reminds me of hanging out in 1st year of uni with a bunch of asshole dudes who were snarking on some girls we knew for just being into fashion, calling them ditzy and vacuous and, in fact, incurious about "proper" culture &c &c - i was like, how in the world does getting excited about fashion make you any more vacuous than getting excited about the fucking smiths (who these dudes were really really into)??

Okay, maybe bad analogy. I just mean, geez, maybe the dude next to you likes Dave Matthews, yeah. But maybe dude could actually school your ass on Herzog/Kinski history if you gave him half a fucking chance.

(xpost)

not necessarily true lex. nobody ever even said someone has to have the exact same interests as them either.

I guess I just picture some of the people posting in the thread to be the type that overhears a co-worker talking about having seen Twilight over the weekend and writing them off forever as "tasteless" and "unthinking".

I know what you mean and I hate when people judge others based on arbitrary info, but I guess I'm just thinking of more forthright office "winners" who seem to be the reason a typically bad workplace can be so auto-pilot and free from any enjoyment.

it's not as tho people on this thread are slating this defenceless public who cower beneath them or something.

anyway so many strawmen here, I just think the OP can be forgiven for wanting to chat about stuff he is interested in with his friends, or feeling like they don't talk about things.

it's not even a matter of specific interests either, surely some of you know people who just don't discuss things?

x-post lex you've got the wrong end of the stick here....I don't care what somebody is interested in really, just particularly like people who have ideas about whatever they do like.

maybe OP should have just called thread "not being able to be yourself around friends" or similar...

Ha, the biggest DMB fans I know all went to college in upstate New York when they were still a touring regional bar band, so they get to play the LCD Soundsystem "I WAS THERE" card!

Yeah, the straw men are unavoidable in the process of trying to give examples! I don't think anyone's examples should be considered fast rules; certainly mine shouldn't cos I just made them up in a few seconds.

the people i feel more sorry for are the people who obviously fake an interest in certain subjects just cuz they feel they "should".

ronan, they DO have ideas about whatever they like! i mean, they might not share those ideas with you or bring them up over the office watercooler, but...that's just not a judgement i feel i can make about anyone.

You're right, maybe I've projected some of the posters in the thread in the worst case direction, but still... I don't know, just rubs me weird to imagine people out there constantly judging others for what they may or may not be vocal about being into. I'm friends with the people I'm friends with because I enjoy being around them and they make me happy. Sure, much of that was bonding over shared interests and experiences, but I'm hardly about to kick a lifelong friend to the curb because he doesn't want to talk about fucking Pavement with me.

and sure, i know people who don't think v deeply about the narrow band of culture they consume, but all of those people do have interesting ideas and thoughts about other subjects - politics or finance or whatever.

I have met and hung out w people who truly functioned at a very low level of mental engagement w the world...no books, no music except whatever was on the radio, no evidence of hobbies or anything unusual in the home. Just the societally-determined items of consumption, mediocre quality of everything, unquestioning acceptance that wanting these things was what was appropriate.

I suspect that MOST of ILX doesn't know a lot of these people unless they're related to them, simply because outside of certain areas of affection and liking like the original poster's, ILXors are probably not going to really grok those people, and vice versa.

^^otm, I agree 100 per cent.

"not being able to be yourself around friends"

(also Lex I have heard plenty of people say "I am not really into things", indeed as I get older I find I myself am not as into things! Even things like fashion, which might be dismissed by first year indie snobs! In fact I spend more time being bored, and doing things I think are dull, rather than being fascinated by things. Work has been a big reason for this! Do you think this kind of statement is outright incorrect, or just that it is usually unhelpful?)

the OP talks of "profound incuriousness" as the problem with the friends. I tend towards replying: profoundly incurious about EVERYTHING, or just about the things you deem worthy of being curious about? The latter rankles as elitist in an obvious way. But if it's the former, that the problem is that these people are profoundly incurious about EVERYTHING (and let's suppose you're right about this, obv. it's very hard to know; a lot of the caution on this thread is about how hard this is to know): then I can see why you wouldn't want to be their friends. It's still interesting to wonder why incurious people would make worse friends: are we looking to learn something from them? Or is their curiosity likely mean more fun and adventure for you? I mean: what do you get out of relationships with curious people that you don't out of profoundly incurious people?

and sure, i know people who don't think v deeply about the narrow band of culture they consume, but all of those people do have interesting ideas and thoughts about other subjects - politics or finance or whatever.

i am pretty sure i could tell if somebody didn't happen to like ricardo villalobos but actually was into politics/finance or something instead. I don't think it's radical to say that some people really aren't into anything.

Okay, maybe bad analogy. I just mean, geez, maybe the dude next to you likes Dave Matthews, yeah. But maybe dude could actually school your ass on Herzog/Kinski history if you gave him half a fucking chance.

or maybe he couldn't, then it'd be ok to look down on him, right?

I think ZS is kinda trolling here, I felt sorry for the dog guy too, that dog was cute.

Dude, nothing even one whit on the awesomes ZS...I don't want to turn this whole thread into a gloss of yr few statements here.

The stories he's told, about his chat with his Boulder roomies, and showing some unamused people the Tuppence site (RIP Tupp)....that they could be considered 'trolling' is bonkers to me. Like a failed anecdote and sharing things you thought were funny (that got an uncomfortable reaction) are things calculated to provoke others? This makes no sense to me!

Maybe it is this hyperanalysis of non-existent subtexts of other people's behaviors that makes it hard for me to befriend others. Maybe I'm a simp or a naïf or an aspie, who knows. I sure feel like it sometimes. But having to interface with that kind of non-innocent scrutiny as an undertone of any interaction, it makes me totally loco to know someone is doing that.

I can't handle gossips or shit-talkers or people who assume the worst about others. Not as friends anyway. I think the combination of me being a complete Pollyanna and a lady with an extremely silly sense of humor and heavy earnestness about what I do...I guess it means hardly any people are on the same 'wavelength' as me.

I've learned a long time ago that pop culture or career or culture whatevs commonalities aren't some secret handshake to friendship. I still have what seems a disproportionately difficult time making friends. That's why this thread is killing me: if the only difficult factor was shared taste...god what I'd give for that problem.

I love to learn things from people!! They get to be excited and show off and enjoy Their Thing, and I get to learn something w/o having to look it up myself -- and something else from the next person at the table, and something ELSE from the next one, and so on. The perfect combination.

If someone only shows excitement about things I have already determined I DON'T want to know, and they don't want to learn things that I know, either, then what you have left is pretty much just...DOING things. Actions. Which is fine, too -- I mean, how do most people relate to their dads? They DO rather than TALK, and that's fine in limited situations and does, actually, offer changes to learn things about people that you might not otherwise.

But a full life for a "curious" and...let's say, engaged, person will probably need a bit of all of that in it. Which explains why you can be FRIENDS with the people in question and still not grok whole huge parts of their lives.

* "offer chances to learn"

eh nothing wrong with whatever ppl are calling 'elitism'; wanting to have ppl in your life who are enjoyable to talk to about things that you find interesting and exciting is absolutely understandable. not everybody's into the same shit and some ppl are not into much of anything. i don't really understand that because life is full of wonder imo, but i also don't have kids or an all-consuming career or a dense family/hometown kind of life. there's only so much time and attention in a day.

as a response, it's ok to object that the quality of 'being into' x or y is not the be-all and end-all of human value, that's true too. generosity and humor and charisma are entirely different realms of experience and have no correlation one way or another to culture nerdery.

or maybe he couldn't, then it'd be ok to look down on him, right?

Way to miss the point entirely.

I've been sitting here trying to think of someone in my life who isn't curious about anything and I'm drawing a complete blank. I think some of you are making these people up.

my main problem is wondering how in the hell people put up with me, not with trying to put up with other people.

also, many people are just not very good at discussing/putting into words why they're into the stuff they are. doesn't mean they're incurious or don't engage with anything. esp in places like ilx, and hanging out with media/creative types, it's easy to forget that lots of people aren't default articulate.

otm lex but some people are default opposed to articulacy too.

my main problem is wondering how in the hell people put up with me, not with trying to put up with other people.

yeah I have that too. a little from column a, little from column b.

otm i sometimes get exasperated when talking to some friends who seem to be interested in not much at all but i'm also a little bit jealous because they all seem better adjusted and less socially awkward compared to neurotic, obsessive, too-many-interests me.

huh i don't know anyone who's default opposed to articulacy! unless you mean, idk, people sarcastically saying shit like "ooh that was a big word" if i use any multisyllabic word in conversation but that's just harmless insecurity really

I've been sitting here trying to think of someone in my life who isn't curious about anything and I'm drawing a complete blank. I think some of you are making these people up.

No no no, I mean, I really DID know those people with no books and no hobbies blah blah, but they're an extreme and mostly what I'm trying to say in this thread (and I think several other people are also) is that the people who mystify us still THINK they're being curious and stuff, but actually look around very very little at their options. They're way more likely to consume the thing that's thrust in front of them and wonder why YOU are spending time & energy looking for something less available, less convenient, and less acceptable to a wide range of people.

huh i don't know anyone who's default opposed to articulacy!

wow you have no idea how lucky you are

I don't think it's radical to say that some people really aren't into anything

That's the bit that I find really difficult to accept - even though I've seen evidence of it my whole life, I kind of feel that it *must* be wrong, just because it's so far outside how I do things. The only feasible explanation that I've come up with is that they are into things, they just don't talk about it - or that they really don't have any interests as such, but in watching whatever's on ITV every night they gain access to some kind of all-consuming communal experience that I, hunched over my keyboard talking to a handful of geeks about Modeselektor 12"s, can't begin to understand.

Hello, most of America between the coasts and not in an urban center! xp to Dan and also to lex

Roz otm, when I came to art-school and was suddenly given the freedom to just be completely immersed in stuff I thought was interesting, it was a pretty hard knock for my social skills, only now recovering by the way. I met up with a few old friends from school who've all kinda stuck together and gotten really into their own stuff, and we both found it pretty fucking impossible to make small talk.

Abbott I am sorry to have offended you! I said I thought ZS was kinda trolling because:

1) Lots of people have had a v strong negative reaction to the whole idea of the OP
2) ZS (whom I like! He has finished ninja gaiden!) was supporting a controversial idea with the kind of examples that I would imagine someone who was trolling (ie by suggesting that other people didn't "get" a certain sensibility weren't up to it, to parody the viewpoint) would choose.
3) I really like dogs and couldn't understand how someone would find that site funny rather than uncomfortable :(

ZS I am sorry if you weren't trolling and were just offering real experiences! I have been called out on ILX before and always found it unpleasant.

Oh no you didn't offend me! I'm sorry I came off as defensive.

I can see that, too; I get the feeling the world thinks I'm 'trolling' it for similar reasons. ;_; when that is not the case.

wonder why YOU are spending time & energy looking for something less available, less convenient, and less acceptable to a wide range of people

... which would also be a perfectly valid explanation to my last point. Coronation Street isn't just thrown together, it's got plot, character and humour in it like any other story - why is it that I need to seek out Hunter S Thompson to get the same kicks?

I'm not sure rent was trying to hold the dude up as the litmus test of worthiness.

You know, I always thought it was kind of funny that some people I knew in college who were passionate about intelligent or avant-garde theater had such unimaginative mainstream tastes in music, but I figured that they kind of chose their one thing to immerse themselves in and didn't really have the time or inclination to care about anything else. I think a lot of posters on this thread would forgive their lack of curiosity because of that one thing, but you have to consider that even having the opportunity to get into that one thing is a privilege and a luxury.

Simply put, a lot of people have priorities that go beyond having new cultural experiences. Things like raising kids, earning a salary, etc. Pragmatic stuff. Does this sometimes make it a challenge to talk to them, if you're a person for whom varied cultural experiences are a big part of what makes life worth living? Absolutely. But apart from wanting voters to be informed when they go to the polls, I can't get too worked up about people not knowing the stuff I know, unless they're outright hostile to it (and usually that's a defensive maneuver anyway).

Hello, most of America between the coasts and not in an urban center! xp to Dan and also to lex

― But not someone who should be dead anyway (Laurel), Monday, May 4, 2009 12:44 PM (4 minutes ago)

most of the US is between the coasts and IS in an urban center (if you're counting suburbs, which in discussions like this we probably aren't)

xp oh dude jaymc theater people always have unbelievably shitty taste in music. this is law.

....is it? Maybe I don't understand cities & suburbs. I think of most of the country as being...country.

(several x-posts) I like Coronation Street. Never watch it anymore since I left Dublin though, my Mum still says "did you see Coronation Street last night" when I speak to her on the phone!

And actually just as an addendum, I love nothing more than when someone talks about things they like, and I find it incredibly sad when someone is like "I like Band Y but they're so terrible I know you'll laugh" etc, that's just so depressing.

the US has been a majority-urban country (by pop obv) for most of the 20th century.

(xpost) the people who mystify us still THINK they're being curious and stuff, but actually look around very very little at their options

dun dun dun! COULD BE YOU. (or me. actually, really could be me.)

Also, that is how I talk about my music taste half the time..."I really like Band Y, I know they're cheesy and ridiculous, they're fun though...."

Yeah I think I actually do it too, in situations where I don't want to talk to them, so maybe I am a jerk to then say "Come on! I won't judge!" and force other people to do so.

I was about to post a description of the uncurious strawman and then I got scared that it sounded too much like my life lately!

Haha, Gravel Puzzleworth it's no big deal. I wasn't trying to troll, for what it's worth. I was guess in a really hackneyed way I was trying to show that even though I sometimes get frustrated with trying to interact with people who don't seem to exert the smallest effort to "meet you halfway" (ie, you bring up curb your enthusiasm, they bring up jackass, and then somehow you end up listening to them talk about jackass for a long time), I realize that from their perspective I'm probably the one who is doesn't know anything and is into really lame shit.

My fatal error was that I thought I could imply this point by sharing stories about feces on dollar bills and a link to an absurd dog memorial.

I'm not sure rent was trying to hold the dude up as the litmus test of worthiness.

― fillibustar superstar! (Abbott), Monday, 4 May 2009 17:50 (3 hours ago)

no, not at all. i was surprised when this happened because if you went to university or even any halloween parties in the last ten years (which this friend has), really since the terry gilliam movie, HST is totally ubiquitous. like other ppl here, im sort of loathe to use examples, and i kind of grimace reading the opening sentences of the OP because i see how it reads, but it was just an example and it actually happened and had been preceded by a few other things that led me to starting this thread just to talk about whether other people find that lack of knowledge, which could be categorized as maybe just this side of mainstream for the people in question, and more imp the lack of curiosity these things might culmulatively suggest, at all relevant when it comes to who they spend their time with. given this guy's experience, it would be maybe along the lines of him never having ever heard of thomas jefferson or ecuador or beavis and butthead or smthg. or maybe showing him that picture of che guevera and him having no idea: like, i know you've encountered this many times, so please friend why, why dont you know?

it seems a bit disengenuous to deny that there are degrees of active engagement with the world when it comes to people, or to say that everyone is equally invested in things, and just the things themselves change. "profoundly incurious" might be a bit strong but still, someone has to be at the end of the spectrum. the suggestions that the friends im talking about might be way into other things is something i kind of dealt with i thought by saying that i wasnt talking about bad or different tastes. i meant people who seem to play a very small, passive role in what they consume and pursue, haven't really made a habit of taking things in, don't do much, and as a side gambit, to what extent can that strain a relationship over time (basically they have very little to say about "things", but are still great, funny people). but, yeah, the notion that relatively incurious people don't exist has been disproven many many times over to me, whether that makes me sound like an elitist or whatever or not, idk, its true in my experience.

that said, it is all relative, and ilx is prob way near the top of that scale, and there's tons of people here (and elsewhere) who make me feel like i would probably bore them (heh) even while what they write or say is fascinating to me. but maybe we could get along really well based on the myriad other things that make people click? but then, i wonder if it could be sustained. i do agree with surmounter and others that you look to diff relationships for diff things, and nobody wants hanging out with their friends to be a chore. really if that excitement's there when a friend is talking about smthg, then the thing itself is possibly usu secondary.

i kind of regret the "lame shit" thing in the thread title but i think i unconsciously meant it in a comic book store guy way, tongue in cheek. i guess too i thought and still think it could function provisionally as a category based on diff ppl's experiences, unless you truly think nothing is lamer than anything else.

i also realize that this is maybe the type of thing you could only really consider if you had very little else to worry about. sorry if im coming across as exceedingly arrogant or young or petty.

Since Abbott was responding to me, I'd say that it doesn't really matter whether Hunter S Thompson is worthy or not, all that matters is that he's not a guy who's on telly every night. I used him because he's just a good example of somebody you probably wouldn't come across normally, but isn't at all difficult to find by following leads (basically because a large proportion of artists/critics talk about him, while only a small proportion of all readers actually read him). Use Noam Chomsky or the Velvet Underground or, I don't know, holidays in Umbria if you prefer.

Rent's point in a nutshell, as I understood it at least, is that he likes to follow these leads (hence HST is a major figure to him) while his friends don't because they are happy to take whatever's closest to hand (hence HST means nothing to them). Rent doesn't understand why his friends don't dig around like he does, and worries about the implications for his relationships. Is that fair?

(I really should be working right now)

i didnt really even look at what abbott was responding to there tbh. but, yeah, that's a fair nutshell i think.

I also respond to sounds and colors.

I guess I just picture some of the people posting in the thread to be the type that overhears a co-worker talking about having seen Twilight over the weekend and writing them off forever as "tasteless" and "unthinking".

OK I dont know if this comment was based on my one about my co-worker and Twilight but I'd just like to point out that I merely used that as an example of something I don't relate to, I specifically made the point that when I express lack of interest I dont like then being hammered with "but why? oh go on" for FOUR DAYS RUNNING, and most importantly of all, I NEVER EVER implied the co worker was tasteless or unthinking, jesus.

In point of fact: my mother sometimes says to me she feels sorry for me, because "people who are smart and thoughtful like you think too much, and you're always depressed by it. Sometimes it's nice to just live in happy ignorance".

No! Honestly I didn't even see your post about Twilight til you called me out on that! It was just the first popular large-scale culture reference I could think of that seems to get looked at with derision by a sector of "wide-ranged" people.

Oh ok, carry on then :) Funny that everyone does use it as a current reference actually, heh.

Don't mind me btw: not well, bad mood.

I think it is bcz your eyeliner, the people want you to do the wam-PIYAH movie thing.

That is the correct pronunciation of vampire, you know.

Ah, fresh victims for my ever growing army of the undead!

I have a "conservative" relative - he has to live a conservative lifestyle for his job (he is a minister). Well he complains to me a lot about this type of person...I mean he thinks it's idiotic that people have never heard of Hunter S. Thompson. He thinks that stuff is interesting, it's just that he doesn't have time for that stuff in his line of work.

and i can't help comparing them to ilx

can imagine this being said mournfully in a broken voice in a break-up speech

This is an interesting thread to re-read. The one thing I always really related to, which I felt got lost amidst the discussion of 'interests,' was the comedy-shock response to the use of the words 'traces' and 'currency,' which if you went to college and/or read books all the time, are kind of just ordinary background words, not ten-dollar show-off Poindexter words. It's moments like that which can really throttle me out of good times with people: not necessarily the gulf between their 'normal' and mine, but the sense that for them that gulf is lit up with neon and that it marks me as an Other.

I'm sure there would be lots of things I've unthinkingly done that set up that same kind of thing in the other direction - and I suspect the resistance of lex and others is them thinking THAT's what's going on in the OP.

But it's always a bummer, whether with old acquaintances, or more typically (for me) with coworkers at a job where I'm dealing with people who aren't from my class/education background, and who up until that moment it felt like we'd kinda managed to find some common ground, shared some laughs about reality TV, bitched about the day shift, whatever.

Huh, thought this had been recently revived, guess I bookmarked it after it got linked in something? We should see if crimsonhexagon can program us a trackback system or something...

Ilx = weird shits who like weird shit.

I Don't Know Anything About Everything