Writer/director/stars who cast themselves in the role of the totally righteous person, while everyone else in the film is a complete idiot

list examples here

http://ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/pics/abovethelaw1.jpg

More like cowrote/starred in and casts self as multilingual superninja zen master, but yeah.

I just so happened to view Star Trek V (Kirk vs God, Kirk wins) last night.

^^^ooh good one

GIT OFF MY POLL

http://www.jossip.com/wp/docs/2009/03/clint-eastwood-dirty-harry.jpg

inspired by this thread btw: Paul Simon - One Trick Pony, C or D

never watched any ed burns movies but i feel like he probably belongs in this category

isn't Ed Burns closer to a totally righteous douche in his movies?

never watched any ed burns movies

not a movie but Ricky Gervais' Extras.

"Stardust Memories"?

see I was considering various Woody Allen movies but he's pretty far from "totally righteous" in most of them - usually he's some combination of insecure/assholish

Insecure/assholish but basically right

the Billy Jack guy

Robert Redford in that stupid Lions for Lambs movie.

Johnny Depp in the Brave (I am just guessing as I've never seen it.)

Martin Scorsese in Taxi Driver.

lolz

Was going to say Chaplin, but he's often an asshole

not a movie but Ricky Gervais' Extras.

― languid samuel l. jackson (jim), Thursday, 7 May 2009 16:01 (16 minutes ago)

In many cases, yes. But I watched several episodes of this last night and was struck by the many incredibly-difficult-to-watch examples of his character being a worse idiot than the rest of them.

re Chaplin: OFTEN? Even when he played a Bluebeard, he ended with a speech about mankind's moral failings. However, his leading women were usually virtuous madonna types.

never watched any ed burns movies but i feel like he probably belongs in this category

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:59 AM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark

<3

totally the first person i thought of.

can't believe this didn't occur to me right off the bat, but Michael Moore

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x141/rewriter42/AlmostAnAngel.jpg

re Chaplin: OFTEN?

Yeah, strike that, he's often an asshole but is unaware that he's coming across as an asshole

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515TGGYQX9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

isn't Ed Burns closer to a totally righteous douche in his movies?
yesssssssss! this to me is the ultimate example. whenever i've had the misfortune of seeing one of his movies, i've always waited in vain for his characters' comeuppance ... but it never comes!

i hate ed burns so much

totally unaware of him up to now

http://smashcut.today.com/files/2009/03/alfred_hitchcock_372x495.jpg

totally righteous cameos?

Hitch as auteur = totally righteous star of movie

there's the ed burns movie with cameron diaz and jennifer aniston where every woman desperately wants to have sex with him, including his brother's mistress. i think they do end up having sex, but he doesn't like it. and then i think there's one where he has sex with his best friend's wife, but still portrays himself as the good guy. the best friend is played by jon bon jovi, btw.

yes. god. are you me? that fucking movie, i swear.

and honest to god, i've watched both of those movies until the end because i keep thinking that the final twist will be that burns' characters are in fact the villains of the film, hiding their inner emptiness behind easygoing charm. but nope -- everyone sucks except for him.

remember eric schaeffer who wrote, directed, and starred in 'if lucy fell' as an nyc artist or something who manages to get with elle macpherson and then breaks it off with her because his true love is sarah jessica parker?

I'm finding it very hard to think of examples of the opposite. Who likes casting himself as the heel?
Of the major scientologist stars, I think Travolta has been the only one to ever cast himself as a villain.

I'm finding it very hard to think of examples of the opposite. Who likes casting himself as the heel?

Orson Welles, dude.

early Woody Allen. He's a total jerk in Annie Hall, Manhattan, and Crimes and Misdemeanors (though that's unitentional; he's supposed to be the good guy).

Orson Welles plays the RIGHTEOUS heel though. like Kiefer in 24.

i don't think Woody comes out of his movies looking like a hero, ever.

Orson Welles plays the RIGHTEOUS heel though. like Kiefer in 24

Touch of Evil, I guess.

He's never a total jerk either, his self-regard is far too sky high for that (xp)

I'm finding it very hard to think of examples of the opposite. Who likes casting himself as the heel?

Larry David in CYE obviously, but that's mostly an extension of the Allen-as-asshole roles noted by Alfred (altho I disagree with him about C&D, who's the good guy there then - Alan Alda? lolz)

Orson was different -- he just gave himself the best roles, regardless of how that character was portrayed.

not a movie but Ricky Gervais' Extras.

^^ I was clearly missing some important dimension of Extras, cause it always seemed like he was casting himself as a petty, small, and continually frustrated man, per usual

hat's mostly an extension of the Allen-as-asshole roles noted by Alfred (altho I disagree with him about C&D, who's the good guy there then - Alan Alda? lolz)

If I were Mia Farrow, given the choice between the two creeps, I would've fucked Alan Alda in a tenth of a second. Forget the loafers with no socks.

yeah, that character is in many ways the pettiest of them all, because he craves the approval of all the other petty people. i can see how one could get that idea though, sometimes that element gets a little lost in the satire. xpost re: Extras

Forget the loafers with no socks
NEVER FORGET

but... Mussolini! Mr. Ed! If it bends its funny...!

Didn't the last season of Curb Your Enthusiasm end with Larry as the righteous victor? It's a hero's arc.

I slight twist on the subject, but I was recently induced to groaning by the saintlike portrayal of Puffy (who executive produced) in Notorious. All of his "finding the dream within yourself" platitudes & bullshit pleas for Biggy to "stay out of the game" made me want to smash my television.

The main thing I ever remember about Alda in that movie is the "you'd think no one had ever been compared to Mussolini before" bit.

I am rethinking Extras -- I guess part of how something like that works is that most everyone apart from his Scottish friend is petty and alarmingly small; it's just that lots of them have some level of power that lets them operate comfortably like that. (Curb Your Enthusiasm has some of the same thing, where lots of people in it act just as badly as David, and it always comes down to a struggle of who needs what from whom, and who holds the power to win the fight.)

tom cruise (producer/star) in the mission: impossible flicks

I guess part of how something like that works is that most everyone apart from his Scottish friend is petty and alarmingly small

His Scottish friend who is a total dimwit

yeah, i mean basically, Extras is pretty flawed overall.

"tom cruise (producer/star) in the mission: impossible flicks"

Tom Cruise and Will Smith in everything. They are incapable of taking the Carlton roles.

yeah Will Smith def

cruise takes the occasional non-hero role (cf magnolia, eyes wide shut, lions for lambs) but yeah will smith is always in hero mode.

She's a classic golden-hearted dimwit, though! And the only character with any integrity or honesty! And constantly gives sage and incisive advice! The end of the show involved repeatedly playing "This Woman's Work" while she moped around cleaning toilets until Gervaise realized she was right! Haha she is the Rose Nylund of Extras

Zach Braff?

this is a thing, this ed burns=eric shaffer(i remember this dude, omar!)=zach braff thing. loathsome men.

I slight twist on the subject, but I was recently induced to groaning by the saintlike portrayal of Puffy (who executive produced) in Notorious. All of his "finding the dream within yourself" platitudes & bullshit pleas for Biggy to "stay out of the game" made me want to smash my television.

― Fyodor Lolstoevsky (Pillbox), Thursday, May 7, 2009 12:37 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not to mention biggie's mom, who co-produced the movie and was coincidentally played by angela basset as a warm, constantly loving mother

i'm not sure we've seen the worst of braff yet, tbh

eric schaeffer, from what i gather, is sort of like the romantic comedy dbag version of troy duffy (boondock saints dude)

Does Lost in Translation count, since Scarlett Johanssen is basically playing Sofia Coppola?

that is a good example, yes

except the thread is "writer/director/stars who cast themselves" not who cast stand-ins for themselves

oh fine

Does Will Smith cast himself these days?

if we're going to pile on every star that's powerful enough to get a producer credit on most of their projects this is gonna get pretty tedious.

http://www.thecinemasource.com/moviesdb/images/Lady_in_the_Water%20-%2013%20-%20Bryce_Dallas_Howard%20M_Night_Shyamalan.jpg

never watched any ed burns movies but i feel like he probably belongs in this category

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:59 AM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark

<3

totally the first person i thought of.

― horseshoe, Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol me too

if we're going to pile on every star that's powerful enough to get a producer credit on most of their projects this is gonna get pretty tedious.

― richard alpert's tijuana brass (some dude), Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

i wonder if tommy wiseau's 'the room' was a failed attempt at this sort of thing

Vincent Gallo

ya but the thing i liked about buffalo 66 is although you assume he's a cool guy at the beginning cuz he's vincent gallo what becomes (and i think intentionally) very apparent is that the dude is a total loser

I'm finding it very hard to think of examples of the opposite. Who likes casting himself as the heel?

director: Steven Soderbergh in Schizopolis
star: Sean Penn

^^ Scorsese in Taxi Driver

i think scorsese kinda overall falls in with hitchcock w/r/t weird cameos (taxi driver, after hours, bringing out the dead, mean streets)

xp The thing with Vincent Gallo and Woody Allen both, is that their characters are supposed to be charming and fascinating losers. Basically, their films write totally righteous people out of them - theirs are narrative worlds without totally righteous people. They celebrate dysfunctional losers. If you don't buy into the narrative, the celebration - and they are celebrations based largely on a cult of personality of the director - then you just don't watch their movies, or patiently sit through them and afterwards say, "fuck this guy."

ah yes, Braff is a good example. same kinda deal as Ed Burns. Kind of creating a universe for yourself where you and only you are good, true and wise.

xp Michael Moore owns this one though. Moreso than even Robert Redford or Mel Gibson.

based largely on a cult of personality of the director
yeah, this is true -- one could say that Allen's own form of self-loathing in his films is almost a celebration of his faults/foibles/fetishes ... dunno, i mean, obviously Allen would say that the characters he plays are not meant to be autobiographical ...

producers don't count - read the thread title

Poor Man's Moore;

http://www.modmove.com/images_BIFF08/Morgan_Spurlock.jpg

sarahel otm. i don't know, what Michael Moore/Spurlock do is a different league than creating a whole fictional universe where beautiful women fall over themselves to please neurotic jerks, existing just to fuck them and solve their problems

cue people who disagree politically going "not a fictional universe eh??"

xp The thing with Vincent Gallo and Woody Allen both, is that their characters are supposed to be charming and fascinating losers. Basically, their films write totally righteous people out of them - theirs are narrative worlds without totally righteous people. They celebrate dysfunctional losers. If you don't buy into the narrative, the celebration - and they are celebrations based largely on a cult of personality of the director - then you just don't watch their movies, or patiently sit through them and afterwards say, "fuck this guy."

that's not really true of Vincent Gallo. Even if you could make the case for Buffalo 66, which I don't think you could, you definitely can't make it for Brown Bunny.

producers have control over story and character aspects, though, developing the projects for themselves and overseeing so much of what goes into the film.

in fiction, i think that Philip Roth plays around with this in the Nathan Zuckerman books, but in a self-conscious way, trying to say something about self-awareness/self-regard, how we create adversarial illusions for ourselves ... or something. though sometimes it just seems like everyone but Zuckerman is an idiot.

this would make for a good thread about musicians and their work as well, maybe

Do we need another Prince thread, though?

http://pictures.pichaus.com/3056e594774b41b5c8525b682c38e77ba2dd77dc?AWSAccessKeyId=0K4RZZKHSB5N2XYJWF02&Expires=1241730000&Signature=KoDXMm8tA4fAL1JTRGYNgHZM1ps%3D

Nathan Zuckerman books, but in a self-conscious way, trying to say something about self-awareness/self-regard, how we create adversarial illusions for ourselves ... or something. though sometimes it just seems like everyone but Zuckerman is an idiot.

^^ this is the rudest thing anyone on this board has ever said about Anne Frank

Steven Soderbergh is as much the hero in Schizopolis as Adam Sandler is in Happy Gilmore.

Closest I've seen is Tom Hanks in "Do that thing you do" but even then he's still a Yoda sage figure, as far as a greasy record exec can resemble Yoda.

What incentive is there to make yourself look bad or unlikeable in a movie?

^^ this is the rudest thing anyone on this board has ever said about Anne Frank
haha, sorry. everyone except Anne Frank.

What incentive is there to make yourself look bad or unlikeable in a movie?
the laffs?

scene-stealing

Oscars

xp jim: I haven't seen Brown Bunny, I am basing it on seeing Buffalo 66, which led me to conclude I dislike Vincent Gallo movies.

I think that's the main Zuckerman book I remember much of, but I certainly didn't sense any real disapproval of, like, Lonoff. Or his wife. Or really anyone.

American Pastoral=he hated that chick at the end who gets stabbed with the fork, you could just tell Roth had sat next to someone like that at a dinner party

xp Philip: Yeah, the speech writer character is the hero, but he also plays the dentist, who is not.

I love Operation Shylock, in which "Philip Roth" meets Philip Roth.

yeah i think history has shown that charismatic bad guy roles are just as ego-boosting as the righteous hero roles.

yeah the later ones kind of take on a zuckerman vs. the world kinda vibe xpost

yeah i think history has shown that charismatic bad guy roles are just as ego-boosting as the righteous hero roles.

― once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little),

Indeed!

Closest I've seen is Tom Hanks in "Do that thing you do" but even then he's still a Yoda sage figure, as far as a greasy record exec can resemble Yoda.

What incentive is there to make yourself look bad or unlikeable in a movie?

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, May 7, 2009 3:02 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Mel Brooks cast himself as a Yoda figure in Spaceballs

First thing I thought of when I saw this thread title was DANCES WITH WOLVES but I don't know if it really meets the criteria.

Two-Socks was totally righteous.

that's more like Writer/director/stars who cast themselves in the role of the totally righteous person, while all other white people in the film are complete idiots

dances with wolves contains the obligatory christ pose in the opening battle scene

mel gibson is an obv pick for braveheart, imo

in the role of the totally scottish person

i don't think Woody comes out of his movies looking like a hero, ever.

He's never a traditional hero (how could he ever be?) but he was usually the most worldly and alive person in any film. In a world of suckers, morons, snakes and douches, a Woody Allen is king. And is there ever a perfectly happy and well-adjusted woman in a Woody Allen film who isn't dating his character? As soon as the girl is separated from the man they return to their usual pathetic and spiritually lost state.

Gervais in Extras OTM. I compared his character in that to something like Woody Allen would've created. Also, Diablo Cody in Juno fits this.

RE: Juno.

I know everyone in the film isn't an idiot, but everyone in that world is dull and two-dimensional compared to that lively, pop culturally savvy and wonderfully worldly little girl that also serves as the raisonneur.

except for the whole Diablo Cody is not the star of Juno thing

What's a raisonneur? (I'm picturing a large, pregnant raisin that doesn't like goldfrapp)

Eric Bogosian in Talk Radio

Juno is a fictional and younger version of herself, judging from everything I've seen and heard from Cody. Plus it was her first screenplay and people will often "cast themselves" very prominently in those. I swear that if you want to know how people perceive themselves (or would like to be perceived) you should ask them to write a screenplay - at least one character, many times the protagonist, is obviously them.

"raisonneur: a character in a play who appears to act as a mouthpiece for the opinions of the play's author, usually displaying a superior or more detached view of the action than the other characters."

E.g. Lisa Simpson,

yes, you're very good at describing something that this thread is not about

and also describing probably 75% of movies with a likeable central character

And is there ever a perfectly happy and well-adjusted woman in a Woody Allen film who isn't dating his character? As soon as the girl is separated from the man they return to their usual pathetic and spiritually lost state.

this is several kinds of wrong. Meryl Streep in Manhattan. Any number of supporting female characters in Hannah and Her Sisters (Julie Kavner, Carrie Fisher), Annie Hall (his buddy's wife), Martin Landau's wife in C&D, etc etc

"raisonneur: a character in a play who appears to act as a mouthpiece for the opinions of the play's author, usually displaying a superior or more detached view of the action than the other characters."

E.g. Lisa Simpson,

Like 3/4 of the Simpsons episodes that Lisa gets self-righteous about something, someone has to pull her back down to earth and tell her she's being judgmental.

"Indeed!"

Hey, Omar has a hero's code!

1. Don't shoot anyone not in the game
2. Justice for fallen comrade outweighs material gain
3. Honey Nut Cheerios

wasn't this what shamaylan did with lady in the water?

ya basically, plus he added an evil film critic character which is like bonus points

this is several kinds of wrong. Meryl Streep in Manhattan. Any number of supporting female characters in Hannah and Her Sisters (Julie Kavner, Carrie Fisher), Annie Hall (his buddy's wife), Martin Landau's wife in C&D, etc etc

Meryl Streep's ex-wife character left Woody because she was a closet lesbian, and she later writes a petty and gossip-ridden book about him if I remember. I've yet to see "Hannah." Annie Hall: I remember his buddy and wife having a less than ideal marriage, but forget the details - the husband was actually a jerk and their relationship on the rocks or something (but perhaps you're right about the wife being a-ok, I am forgetful about it). I bet there are some very valid exceptions (especially looking at his later films) but during his classic period I remember that, as a principle, most of the women he met were an emotional mess - and they got right by getting with Woody, or they didn't get right because they were married to handsome guys who were revealed to be boobs.

Meryl Streep's ex-wife character left Woody because she was a closet lesbian, and she later writes a petty and gossip-ridden book about him if I remember

yes and now she is in a happily, committed, stable relationship. Allen is the one who looks like the asshole (see: all the jokes about him trying to run them both over with a car). there is no suggestion at all that she was "better off" or "happier" with Woody (in fact, the implication is that during their relationship she was in the closet and miserable!)

The husband was actually a jerk and their relationship on the rocks or something.

yr argument isn't exactly supported by making stuff up.

there's also Muriel Hemingway in Manhattan - who, after leaving Woody, gets a boyfriend her own age and is all set to go to Europe and grow up and be her own person - by all implications she is fine without him. Its WOODY who was better off with her, not the other way around.

Was Mia Farrow's character actually more messed up in Husbands & Wives after she left Woody? That seems incorrect to my memory.

that's another good example - after she left Woody she married Michael Caine (and while she does seem to suffer some anxiety during his infidelity she is otherwise referred to as the most stable of the three sisters). I suppose you could point out that Caine is also a Woody analogue even though Woody is already in the movie but that seems sorta convoluted and problematic, particularly for the purposes of this thread.

and at the end of the film Caine and Farrow are back together and happy/content as can be

haha, oh man, all of those woody allen movies really blend together don't they?

At work recently I watched <A href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307989/";>this</A> remarkably awful direct-to-video MMA fight flick whose relatively flabby star/producer/writer/director is depicted besting many way buffer foes - and having graphic sex with numerous women in between matches. I think it might be the ultimate example of this phenomenon.

oh wow, hurray for me.

do any female directors do this? Streisand? I haven't seen her movies, so ...

haha, oh man, all of those woody allen movies really blend together don't they?

honestly that's more the case with his early period, gag-heavy stuff for me

RE: Juno.

I know everyone in the film isn't an idiot, but everyone in that world is dull and two-dimensional compared to that lively, pop culturally savvy and wonderfully worldly little girl that also serves as the raisonneur.

Yes, what a delightful little trouper Juno is.

do any female directors do this? Streisand? I haven't seen her movies, so ...

the pool of female directors/writers/actresses is pretty goddamned short

btw when Annie Hall leaves Alvy, I feel like CHEERING. I mean, the whole point of the movie is that she's grown beyond this whiny little goat.

"honestly that's more the case with his early period, gag-heavy stuff for me"

I think he's joking that I referenced Husbands & Wives and you described Hannah & Her Sisters haha.

man I really hated Juno

x-post

I think he's joking that I referenced Husbands & Wives and you described Hannah & Her Sisters haha.

oh shit lolz

I don't remember Husbands and Wives at all, really

haha, yeah, i couldn't remember either!

anyhoo, i actually don't think Woody belongs in quite the same territory as, say Braff or Burns. Even if the characters he portrays in his movies end up celebrating his loathesomeness to some extent, they don't have the full-bore narcissism of these guys.

yeah I would think that for the most part, while most of his characters may consider themselves "totally righteous", its usually made abundantly clear to the audience that he is anything but.

actually, though, there is that one (with Charlotte Rampling, maybe?), where everyone is super Fellini-esque gross, except for him and his lady friend. what is that one called? Stardust?

"Stardust Memories"?

― Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:01 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

altho honestly I dunno why anyone would think a filmmaker who decorates his apt with wall-size photos of Vietnam atrocities could be anything other than a total asshole

heh heh

Kevin Smith

"do any female directors do this? Streisand? I haven't seen her movies, so ..."

wasn't there a widely mocked TV movie where rosie o donnell is the hero?

riding the bus with my sister?

yeah silent bob always has one monologue/wisdom bomb scene

Rosie project yr thinking of is "Riding the Bus With My Sister", but she didn't write or direct it (it was shamefully directed by Anjelica Huston)

altho honestly I dunno why anyone would think a filmmaker who decorates his apt with wall-size photos of Vietnam atrocities could be anything other than a total asshole

wau, did not know this.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/sdm.jpg

^^^this is a really funny scene, but I think it pretty clearly shows he's as much of a jerk as all the other monstrosities in the movie

(except for Sharon Stone, who has never been more gorgeous)

i gave up on woody, but i did enjoy some of his old films so i should probably make a point to see the ones i've missed.

"Rosie project yr thinking of is "Riding the Bus With My Sister", but she didn't write or direct it (it was shamefully directed by Anjelica Huston)"

I cant believe a performance like that didn't come from a place of willful auteurist self-expression.

oh it totally did. but it doesn't quite fit the criteria since a) not everyone else in the film is a complete idiot, and b) while she may be "totally righteous" she's also playing some humiliating caricature of the "mentally disabled"

My buddy Steve owns Riding the Bus on VHS, I need to re-watch that thing.

Rosie O'Donnell Playing a Retarded Person on Hallmark TV Movie

there's also Muriel Hemingway

Mariel

murgaux hemingway

oh it totally did. but it doesn't quite fit the criteria since a) not everyone else in the film is a complete idiot, and b) while she may be "totally righteous" she's also playing some humiliating caricature of the "mentally disabled"

― Skinny Malinky (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:54 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

and isn't she the one who is a total idiot amirite

when she shits herself the nontards see how wonderful life is

man ed burns is a dude who sucks

I waited on Ed Burns once. He was a total jerk AND a bad tipper. He def fits this category.

I suspect that Miranda July would make this list even with only one movie down.

xxxpost

More recently there was America, which Rosie co-wrote, and in which she co-stars as a psychiatrist or counselor or something who helps the titular character, a troubled inner-city youth, confront his terrible past. Maybe not everyone else in the movie is a complete idiot, but it still kinda fits in this thread.

ed burns has got a voice like a film geek dbag who tried imitating don corleone one too many times

miranda july probably but i thought that movie was pretty dope tbqh!

"I waited on Ed Burns once. He was a total jerk AND a bad tipper. He def fits this category."

I am eagerly waiting for Selena Robert's book, E-Bur to come out now.

miranda july probably but i thought that movie was pretty dope tbqh!

Didn't like or care for the movie at all, but I've always thought her writing was pretty good. New movie supposed to be out this year.

That Miranda July movie annoyed me so much I couldn't get through it. It was a while ago now so I can't remember why exactly.

i've got a really good story about miranda july

Okay Miranda July makes zero sense as a response to this: whom are we considering idiots in that film, the freaking children?

I waited on Ed Burns once. He was a total jerk AND a bad tipper. He def fits this category.

― a sweet ballet dancer (ENBB), Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:31 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

omg erica you've been holding out on me you said he was cute in some other thread where i freaked out about how much i hate him! of course he's a bad tipper. of course he is.

omar little has inside information.

xp Children can't be idiots in your world? How narrowminded. Tsk tsk.

haha definite versus indefinite article, A!

HS - he was handsome but smug and smarmy and everything you'd expect including cheap. Also - all over Heather Graham in a gross and creepy way.

Miranda July is the luminous star round which affectless toddlers and the jewish cowboy from deadwood revolve. at least that's the message I got from that movie.

He wasn't a cowboy in Deadwood. He owned a shop like a good jew should.

but... he had a hat and a gun!

Omar - spill it.

"but... he had a hat and a gun!"

Yeah but it was a bowler and the gun was small.

Well like 90% of everything July's done lately is about taking people's desire for and huge problems with connecting with one another and literalizing them in almost pathological ways, which in that film means her character spends a striking amount of the running time sitting alone in her apartment wanting to talk to the guy from Deadwood while the guy from Deadwood struggles to juggle parenting and his crappy job and most of the other main characters make their own vexed attempts at connecting with other people on a spectrum of woundedness and weirdness in which July's character's is actually somewhere in the middle and possibly toward the lamer end, so ... I dunno.

I guess seeing as they all have pretty much the exact same overarching problem, I find it hard to see July's character as somehow more righteous about it; I guess she makes "clever" video art about the topic of the film, but that doesn't seem like any huge setting-apart, and anyway if she made video art about some other theme it wouldn't fit in very well

I mean like if she made video art about the Armenian genocide it might be a little jarring

You've convinced me. She's an idiot and everyone else in the film is totally righteous.

Hey Horseshoe - I just checked and it was the surprisingly fun Ashley Judd thread on which we had previously discussed Mr. E.B.

thank you for being in a position to corroborate that he's a dbag!

This may be totally off-topic since I've never seen that Miranda July film, but I read her short story collection and it seems to me that she's less about totally righteous central characters surrounded by complete idiots than she is about delicate innocent whimsical free-spirited snowflakes surrounded by callous inhuman indifferent represenatives of Society.

x-post - NP glad I could help. I probably didn't mention that part then because I didn't want to be all omg here's my celebrity story etc. but now you know!

man, I could get really save-a-July up in here, not even out of fondness but just because some of these readings seem so weird: like of the characters in that book I can remember firmly, you can only read them as innocent whimsical free spirits if you completely ignore the bits where she's pretty clear about prodding them over into being damaged or pathological -- I mean, first story, the woman who cuddles up to someone who's just had a seizure!

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY BEAUTIFUL THREAD

oh right umm how about Steven Seagal

like I don't even know if I've seen On Deadly Ground or not, but I'd be willing to bet a year's income that Seagal's is the most righteous character in it by a long, long shot

the postman trailer is one of the greatest trailers ever imo

do any female directors do this? Streisand? I haven't seen her movies, so ...

Her 'The Mirror Has Two Faces' SOOOOO fits this. It's awful. Oh, just thinking about it makes me want to kill myself/her/everybody retrospectively. Such a shit, shit, shit shitty shit of a film.

'If Lucy Fell'--that was the one where they put Elle Macpherson in glasses so she'd look "intelligent", wasn't it?

man, I could get really save-a-July up in here, not even out of fondness but just because some of these readings seem so weird: like of the characters in that book I can remember firmly, you can only read them as innocent whimsical free spirits if you completely ignore the bits where she's pretty clear about prodding them over into being damaged or pathological -- I mean, first story, the woman who cuddles up to someone who's just had a seizure!

― nabisco, Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:42 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, it wasn't so much the individual characters as the stories all read together that did my head in. On their own I might have enjoyed and remembered each story, but read in aggregate they just stopped feeling sincere. Or something.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I agree that this thread was created for Kevin Costner.

Writer/director/stars who cast themselves in the role of someone who gives out hope like it's candy in their pocket

i want every postman hunted down

Costner vs. Tom Laughlin FITE

Check out http://www.billyjack.com/ for Laughlin evidence.

This is Steven Seagall's son, Kentaro (the one with the bazooka):