Best season of HBO's The Wire

i thought 2 was one of the worst of the seasons. 4 was my favourite.

This is actually a tough call for me between 2 and 4, with 3 right there behind those two. 1 and 5 were easily enough eliminated.

4 with 2 close behind, sorry 2

I went with Season Four. I think I rank them this way - 4 >>>>2>3>1>>>>>>>5.

The only reason 2 beats 3 is Nicky's girlfriend's boobs.

head says 4, heart says 2

Four is totally going to take this, but I'm tempted to go for three, since that's really the point where the show starts spinning out onto a whole new level. (Also I was rewatching one of them recently and enjoying the realization that the whole investigation winds up hinging on Bernard-the-cellphone-buyer's girlfriend.)

the scene where lester cons bernard and his chick is great!!

Bernard-the-cellphone-buyer's girlfriend

Bernard's best line - "Man, I can't WAIT to go to jail."

i've argued this before (in fact i'm pretty sure every Wire thread has diverged into a long argument about the relative quality of each season at least once) but 3 for me is the best

B.L.A.M. pretty much OTM, but I'd set it 4=2>3>>1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5.

i'd go 4>>3>2>1>>>>5 (5 is clearly the most muddled but i still think it gets a bum rap, it's got some astonishing bits)

5 wasn't that bad, jeez

5 was terrible and stupid! i think 3=4>2>1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5

i didn't like 2 until i saw it a second time though

I think five would have annoyed me no end if I'd been watching it week to week as it aired; as a whole it's, like, yeah, muddled and not as great as the others, but pretty good and satisfying nonetheless

Two has, like, atmosphere

Season 5 was totally not that bad...quite good, actually...but out of the 5, its the one I liked the least.

Now, that said - the Chris/Snoop/Omar parts are awesome. The newspaper parts just drove me crazy.

5 did have some decent moments, but the whole McNulty premise was so g-d ridiculous that I just couldn't throw myself into it like I could other seasons.

1 is a police procedural, 2 is a working-class drama, 3 is the "shakesperean tragedy", 4 is a horror film, 5 is going for institutional satire to some degree

4 will win in a landslide

4
2
3 - v well executed, loses points for being kinda all over the place plot/theme wise
1
5

Can you really deduct points in a season for setting up a payoff in a later season?

4
2
1
3
5

3 > 2 > > 4 > > 1 > > > 5

I think quality of series might actually be propotional to quality of theme song.

I'm in the middle of watching the whole thing beginning to end, but I'm only 3 episodes in.

I'm curious to see if my opinion stays the same.

4-1-3-2-5

the season 5 serial killer thing was a little annoying to sit through (same for the newspaper stuff) but i remember it having some good payoffs

what's wrong with the newspaper stuff? isn't that mid-management newspaper dude also in some weird verizon commercial with little miss sunshine?

My main problem with 2 was that I didn't really care for anyone at the docks apart from Frank Sobokta. Nick and motherfucking-Ziggy can basically go suck a fat one.

yeah but frank come on FRANK MOTHERFUCKING SOBOKTA

And Valchek. That guy is just a SUPREME asshole.

omar otm - Season 4 is totally a horror movie.

creeping doom all the way

but nick's girlfriend and the duck are two of the wire's most beloved characters

isn't that mid-management newspaper dude also in some weird verizon commercial with little miss sunshine?

Flight of the Conchords, more notably, but yes, he seems to do a lot of commercial work. (Also umm pretty sure that's not Abigail Breslin.)

i love making fun of that commercial

I guess it goes with the other Verizon commercial in the same series with the guy who plays Clay Davis

Both with beards, I think!

5 is odd because, you know, it's still miles better than most television. Compare it to the rest of the show though and it sucks balls.

3 > 4 > 2 > 1 > 5.

3 is ridiculously funny like a motherfucking 40 degree day.

mel's boyfriend/newspaper editor/verizon shill is also on DAMAGES playing TOTALLY AGAINST TYPE as a SPOILER ALERT SPOILER SPOILER ALERT corrupt cop

2 has the Omar court scene, and many of the great characters from the first season. It is a nice cross between cop procedural, human drama, and political statement. I own all seasons except 5, and just going by what I find the most appealing to re-watch, I rate them like this: 2 > 3 > 4 > 1. 4 is amazing, but certain episodes aren't exactly good times, and it's probably the least funny season (for good reason).

i thought we did this before..anyways 4-2-3-1-5 imo

4-3-2-1-5

poll should have been 4>3>2>1>5 vs. 4>2>3>1>5

3>1>4>2>5

maybe i'm a total dick but i didn't care about the school stuff in 4 ... i liked the kids and their plots, but the stuff about how hard it is to be a teacher and prez's never-dying optimism seemed pretty played out at this point. though i also liked the newspaper stuff so maybe my opinions are nuts

i think i'd go 3>1>2>4>5, with 3 and 1 being really close and 4 and 5 being really close

Reasons why 2 rules the hardest of all of them:

- The enormous human Frank Sobotka tragedy at the centre of it coupled up with all that changing-nature-of-capitalism stuff
- Pretty much every scene with Ziggy
- All that awesome Bunk/Lester stuff
- I love Amy Ryan
- D'Angelo in the library
- Omar in the court
- BROTHER MOUZONE
- It's the last series without Carcetti in it
- "You and your brother would both be cadaverous motherfuckers"

S3 and S4 are both amazing as well, especially the rise and fall of Stringer, but it suffers from being a bit unfocussed and the Hamsterdam subplot is a bit far-fetched. S4 is better but has too much Prez and not enough McNulty. Also no matter how good the kids are, I can't bring myself to vote for it due it not having Avon and Stringer in it.

I like S2 a lot, so it's really more like S4=S3=S2 > S1 > S5, but if I have to rank, I have to rank.

Right away I can eliminate 3 and 5 because the Hamsterdam and serial killer plots were way too far fetched. The pure fiction of those storylines negated the realism that they so painstakingly try to create in the rest of the series.

I surprised folks are so unenthusiastic about the first season when it has so many classic moments. Still maybe not the best because it took them a while to really find their voice.

So it's down to 2 and 4. Both excellent, but I'm choosing 2. This is actually a bit of surprise to me because I had misgivings about the docks plot the first time around and liked it much more the second. The great thing about season 2 is that it covers so much. The focus shifts to the docks, but it still manages to keep the original plot in focus. The twin tragedies of D'Angelo's death and the failure of the Sobotka family make it a truly epic and sad season more than any other.

Can someone refresh my memory about what happens with the docks and the Greeks after season two? Can't remember ... is the suggestion pretty much that there's a similar arrangement with the guy who was waiting to step up to head of the union?

yo is that bunk watching rebirth at 3:10 in this video?

Totally. I think he lives there.

and he's playing a brass band trombone player in 'treme', so why wouldn't he be doing a little research

He is certainly FROM there, regardless of his current domicile.

"Right away I can eliminate 3 and 5 because the Hamsterdam and serial killer plots were way too far fetched."

Isn't hamsterdam based on some real failed project?

There was a pretty interesting Times article about him and Treme and New Orleans -- he organized a community group and sat down and learned enough about housing to propose a rebuilding development to the city! As in, there were no development proposals from within the community in question, so he studied up and helped put one together.

"Hamsterdam and serial killer plots were way too far fetched."

not going to really argue with this re: the serial killer plot, although i gave s5 a sympathy vote because i want to work for gus the city editor. but sunday times journalist philip knightley has a story about working on a paper called "the truth" in melbourne in the 50s which sort of parallels this on a small scale. deadline was approaching, they had nothing for the front, so the news editor comes over to knightley, then a trainee or whatever, and says "use your imagination."

so assuming this is what the editor wants, he fabricates a story about a man with a wire hook who stalks young women on the commuter trains and uses the hook to lift up their skirts and perve on them. he files, and the editor looks it over, just making one change: having the hook attacking that very day and putting the headline HOOK STRIKES AGAIN.

next day, and a call comes through for knightley. shit, it's the chief of police. so he takes the call, wondering how he's going to explain this one. the cop says to him: "you the guy who wrote about the hook?" "er, yes" "well, i just wanted you to know... we caught the bastard".

he said he still doesn't know if there really was someone doing this, if the police just fitted up some random, or if they decided that if the paper was going to invent crimes, they were going to pretend to solve them in record time.

Isn't hamsterdam based on some real failed project?

Do you mean Amsterdam in The Netherlands? ;>)

or christiana in copenhagen

surprised to see sl0cky rate 2 so low since it seems the most sopranosy to me. /sorta challopsy

...insofar as the human dramas in all the other seasons are conflicts along friendship-, crew- or institutional-loyalty lines. the issues in 2 were the most familial.

except namond/wee-bey in s4. and randy/cheese (this one goes kind of unexamined, now that i think of it!). and michael/cutty by proxy, sorta.

ok, it's a lame theory.

randy/cheese goes completely unexamined. They have the same surname and that's all there is.

4, 3, 5, 1, 2 .

weird, i got incredibly bored during the second season. (i admit that i am also not a huge fan of the sopranos). the fifth season was pleasing to me because of the whole media corruption clusterfuck, as well as McNulty's increased insanity level.

I'm not sure I even noticed that Randy was a Wagstaff

I think they were planning to explore Cheese/Randy a bit but the network wouldn't give them all the broadcast hours they requested, and they couldn't otherwise fit it in.

I guess he got the hair from Prop Joe

Isn't hamsterdam based on some real failed project?

Not sure if it's based on Needle Park (or a similar place I seem to recall reading about in Vancouver), but it's not exactly a new idea. I guess, the main thing far-fetched about it was how long it went on. It didn't really dampen my enjoyment of season 3, though. It's a glimpse of a possible future if nothing else. S3 gets huge marks from me just for letting us get to know Bunny Colvin (who offset Carcetti's annoying ass).

Tough call for me between season 2 and season 3.

Arguments in favor of Season 2: the Subotka/Valchek beef and their various attempts at revenge, McNulty figuring out the murders happened in Baltimore city (plus he looked cute in his boat uniform), the decline of industry stuff, Omar in court, the Russian guy, Lester and Bunk questioning the ship's crew, Tom Waits does the theme song

Arguments in favor of Season 3: more Stringer and Prop Joe, Bernard and Squeak, lol economics and parliamentary procedure, Cutty as eligible bachelor, Comstat, Rawls in gay bar

I love Carcetti. :(

Xxpost

Also, by far-fetched, I meant specifically that it would never ever be allowed in a black neighborhood in the US.

I can deal with that aspect, since it's not really "allowed" -- I think the main suspension of disbelief is the way it goes unnoticed for so long.

Maybe they were trying to address that with the bit where McNulty and co. pull over Bodie and he objects that he's headed to the free zone, but that really just inflates the question -- in a large police department with loads of bureaucratic divisions and details working on different things, no one outside that particular district's command notices or gets wind of this, or reports it up the ladder?

But it's interesting enough to make it some allowances, since all it really does is extend the timeframe during which it's unnoticed, not pretend that it could be unnoticed forever

no one outside that particular district's command notices or gets wind of this, or reports it up the ladder?

b/c that would be giving a fuck when it's not your turn to give a fuck?

the mean patrol guy from season four would have given a fuck, assuming he was patrolling that district at the time.

re Hamsterdam: I think it was based on something that actually happened in Baltimore ... the guy responsible had a role as one of the academic/social service advisors.

xp rockapads: It's interesting that that guy is the only real corrupt cop in the entire series. He would only give a fuck in as far as he could get something out of it, and because he'd be getting something out of it, it wouldn't go up the chain.

maybe he was an idealistic young cop until he had to pull security detail in Hamsterdam... there's a subplot waiting to be told!

The Wire could have used just a touch more of The Shield in certain ways. I had to kind of agree with the Bodie Barksdale article where he accused the show of being too cop-biased.

xp rockapads: that NY Times blog with the Freakanomics guy watching the Wire with real thugs touched on this. The thugs expected more corruption among the cops. I think they pegged Bunk for being on the take.

I disliked the actor who played Ziggy's Robert-De-Niro-in-Mean Streets-isms less the second time around, and loved the Omar court scene. Season Five has replaced it as the worst. As I said on that other thread, that's where David Simon's cynicism started to inhibit character development.

I voted for Three -- that's where it comes together.

annoyed a "sympathy vote because i want to work for gus the city editor" is going to fuck up season 5's goose egg

xp- It's been a long time since I've seen Mean Streets so maybe I don't get the DeNiro-isms, but everyone has known a Ziggy (to some degree), and that dude perfectly nailed the type. He was fucking great in Generation Kill, too.

Gus lets you take smoke breaks!

none of you want to work for Gus. You think Gus would think you're one of the good ones but you're wrong. gus would not like any of us.

xpost no robert deniro perfectly nailed the type

also that we're even talking about "the type" suggests how weak he was as a character.

Time to Netflix Mean Streets.

I feel like season 5 could have been better if they'd had the extra two episodes the other seasons had. The newsroom characters felt a lot more stock.

ziggy is a pretty awesome character

i guess it's true that it's taken as a given that there is a lot of corruption on the police force, but most of the main cop characters are decent. except for herc. i mean, herc was a fuck up and he did some bad things, and rawls is political all the way, but not a whole lot of straight-up bribe-takers that i can recall.

i've seen ziggy out at one of my regular bars & the ladeez LOVE HIM.

xp Carver was the one who dragged the body away from Hamsterdam; i lost a lot of respect for his character then :(

i guess they already know he has a big dick/duck

I think the creators did their best to try to embody particular problems in single characters, instead of trying to spread traits out in a more representative manner. So instead of having a lot of Shield-like cops they just had a few, but they also had a lot of other cop types that a show like the Shield would never think to include.

Wow internet is CRAZY, I don't know anyone in real life who would defend Season 2. We all take the same tack, "yeah they tried hard but it just wasn't very good". Absolutely hated Ziggy, but I agree the actor was much better in Generation Kill. Also don't quite understand the hate for Season 5. Close race between S1 and S4 for me, went with the first.

everyone i know IRL who has watched the wire thinks season 2 is pretty amazing and they're otm

pretty much the only police corruption consists of: Mean Officer Walker in Season 4, the allegations against Daniels from when he was in the Eastern, and Carver & Herc losing then hunting for the drugs in the car, after having contemplated keeping some.

fun thing to notice about the wire: in the first series all the cops really like to beat on people, by series four it is only Bad cops

Valchek pursuing a vendetta against the Stevedores...

Herc and Carver beating the crap out of Bodie for shits and giggles...

I guess if by 'corruption' you only mean 'graft' though.

Drunk ass motherfuckers in Season one trying to take the dept. to the cleaners with fraudulent injury claims...

Prez knocking some kids eye out for a laugh...

xp oilyrags: by corruption I mean graft, being on the take, yes.

i think, possibly, homicide cops and those in highly-watched-over new units are less set up for corruption than, say, vice or narcotics cops would be, is a part of the perceived lack of it.

that was the "complaint" of the thugs watching the show ... that they expected more cops to be on the take.

xp thomp: that's probably right ... I think it comes up in Simon's "Homicide" book.

Sorry, on a less hasty reread that was clearer. At first I thought the claim was all the cops on the show are clean except a couple bad apples.

this conversation never gets less annoying.

could never vote for a season without avon and stringer. people saying the hamsterdam plot was far-fetched and lumping it in with season 5 have got me wondering, but i remember loving hamsterdam at the time, the rest of season 3 is incredible.

xp i think there are some other threads on site new answers

haha well i need my irritation recorded!

Wow internet is CRAZY, I don't know anyone in real life who would defend Season 2. We all take the same tack, "yeah they tried hard but it just wasn't very good". Absolutely hated Ziggy, but I agree the actor was much better in Generation Kill. Also don't quite understand the hate for Season 5. Close race between S1 and S4 for me, went with the first.

for real, this is the most OTM thing on this thread. i mean, there were episodes in season two where i FELL ASLEEP-- i just wanted them to trash the waterfront BS and focus on the hood and prison and whatnot more-- that's where the interesting story was, as far as i'm concerned. perhaps this is because i've spent a lot of time in and half grew up in a neighborhood like the one Ziggy and Subotka lived in...whereas i've spent some time squatting in african-american ghettoes, omar-style, but never inhabited one for a long period, and have never set foot in the projects...1 3 4 and 5 intrigued me a bit more, in brief.

THAT IS CRAZY TALK.

i mean about season 2 being bad; obviously i can't speak to what you want out of a tv show.

i didn't like it at first, it was kind of a "wtf who are all these white people" reaction, but i was totally sold by mid-season.

start of every season is like that for me. what was wrong with the old characters? love them by like 4 or 5 tho. that even happened in 5.

just with regard to the characterization of ziggy--i think the fact that he's irritating and uncomfortable to watch makes the drama of how his story ends that much more amazing. it was well-done, his arc.

i mean he's impossible to take seriously for one million hours and then in two seconds he's a human being.

also frank sobotka omg you season 2-haters must be made of stone.

i think i voted for ziggy in the character poll. he is an amazing character. can't think of others like him on tv and it was brave in a way to spend so much time with someone who is so annoying. but he's definitely a real person. i know people like him.

to me his arc was ultra-predictable, I could tell almost immediately that he was headed for a grave or prison.

What! Season 2 kills, and the actor who plays Ziggy is great in it.

yeah but it's the way that he does! everything about the wire's plotting is predictable if you take the long view. well, maybe except for the lol serial killer plotline.

xpost

predictable is not necessarily a problem in a show like this.

yah.

to me his arc was ultra-predictable, I could tell almost immediately that he was headed for a grave or prison.

As opposed to most of the black characters involved with the drug trade?

i've also spent time with people like ziggy and frank and also in the ghetto and i didn't have any problems with season 2 whatsoever

this isn't a thriller so "predictable" is not a problem per se. you can guess the ending of macbeth at the end of act 1.

I have spent times in the suburbs and also in nice urban neighborhoods, so I have no cred whatsoever, but thought the docks were such a fascinating and beautiful place.

yeah i mean "didn't see it coming twists" are for shows like desperate housewives and 24 imo.

omar otm

i don't think that's true, I think when plot twists and cliffhangers are what a show is hinged on they suck, but I don't think that Ziggy's predictable downfall was at all reflected in the other character arcs in the show, I didn't see Prezbo becoming a cop, or McNulty settling down in the 4th season, etc. etc.

didn't see Frank Sobotka's downfall coming either.

some you see coming because they're inevitable (tragic?). that's the whole premise of the show in some sense. the ones you don't see coming, e.g. your examples, are the exceptions, people who somehow avoid their destiny.

neither did frank sobotka

xpost

lol

the whole thing with the show is some characters' fates you see coming and they happen, some you see coming and they don't, some you never see coming and they happen, etc

in a show more interested in fulfilling dramatic necessities than this one, Randy would have made it out of the projects on the strength of his hustle and brains while Namond would have got shot trying to please his mom. But Wee-Bay surprised everyone and told him to get the hell out of the game, and Carver surprised everyone by NOT saying 'to hell with the rules, a child's FUTURE is at stake, doesn't that mean anything to you?'

xp oilyrags: yeah Namond struck me as the ghetto version of Ziggy ... if he had stayed in the game, he wouldn't have made it.

Ziggy would never have made speech & debate captain, Bunny or no Bunny.

xp he could have become the next Vincent Gallo, though.

Another vote for 4>2>3>1>5.

4 >3>1>2>5. The Prez schoolteacher reinvention was far more believable and unforced to me than the newspaper stuff.

am i heartless motherfucker for being a dude who wants to teach who really had a hard time giving a fuck about 4

The teaching stuff was believable and unforced but it's also been the subject of like 50 movies so it was just a little zzzzzzzz to me

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

3>4>1>2>5.

seasonal theme song version ranking (not subject to debate): 2>1>5>3>4

was a season 2 hater/footdragger 1st time through but on replay it's damn good. first rewatching in order, season 4 next hoo boy.

3 for me, though I still need to watch 5. I think the introduction of the political stuff in 3 is pretty weak - the expository dialogue is really noticeable and awkward, and I almost never have problems with the writing. But once it gets going it just does everything so beautifully. There's nothing quite like that rooftop scene with Avon and Stringer.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Really thought 2 was going to be the surprise winner here. But really, who voted for 5?

that person meant to vote for season 4 but missed.

Glad season 3 got love, that continues to be my favorite season. Love Bunny Colvin.

Wouldn't vote in here but yeah Colvin and Sobotka are these wonderfully sculpted tragic figures.

Had no probs with Hamsterdam going unnoticed for a month, and with not even that much of a suspension of belief, either. Once BBC2 start to screen it it will be interesting to see how that holds.

I like how most of this thread was debating merits of seasons 2 and 3, and season 4 wins big ... which was only surprising in that there was so little repping for it in the thread.

Man, just because this is the most recent The Wire thread. I haven't watched any of it for like a year, but I had a question: do any of the criminal organizations in The Wire have names?

I remember cops talking about "the Barksdale organization" and stuff about east side vs. west side beefs, and I remember D'Angelo throwing a gang sign at the stripper in Season 1, but I can't remember any proper gang names.

Anybody know?

i think in general they're referred to by their leaders, like Barksdale, Marlo, etc.
Baltimore's only really had a big surge of 'gangs' with well known names and/or national affiliations like MS-13 or the Bloods in the past few years, AFAIK before that it was mainly small neighborhood-based crews dealing.

That is some cool historical knowledge.

prop joe's coalition of dealers is called the co-op

Amazed that 2 got more votes than 1. I liked both seasons, but it seems like the CW is that 1>2.

not your average gang, tho, obv - xpost

maybe i'm a total dick but i didn't care about the school stuff in 4 ... i liked the kids and their plots, but the stuff about how hard it is to be a teacher and prez's never-dying optimism seemed pretty played out at this point.

I posted this on the main Wire thread:

I think S4 is my favorite both because the kids/education angle is particularly compelling, and also because I think it's really tightly constructed from a narrative standpoint. All these little connections come into play, and you see how characters' choices reverberate far beyond their circumscribed worlds.

Oh yeah, wasn't it called the Sunshine Co-op or something? : )

"new day"?

yep

The Get-Along Gang

lol

in a sick kinda way i think the older neighborhood-dealer Baltimore crime world depicted in The Wire was healthier, there was violence but it was over money and territory. now there seems to be a lot more bullshit like random robberies/violence by younger and younger kids just to pledge loyalty or be inducted into a gang, people getting hurt or killed for wearing the wrong color or flashing the wrong sign, which is kind of disgusting on a whole other level.

gang names seem kinda '90s

http://www.blogwaybaby.com/uploaded_images/WestSideStory-719190.jpg

oops

http://www.blogwaybaby.com/uploaded_images/WestSideStory-719190.jpg

gang names seem kinda '90s

― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:15 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, when The Bloods started really becoming a presence in Baltimore i was kinda like 'wtf? do they even still exist in LA? i thought that was just something rappers like The Game kept talking up to maintain their street cred.'

The whole question was spurred by a Baltimore Sun story about the Pasadena Denver Lanes Bloods. When I lived out on the west coast, there were lots of different gang names - usually sets of Bloods and Crips that were named after what block they were from. The only one that sticks out is Tree Top Piru.

Regarding TTP, their first google hit is a myspace page in baltimore, so go figure.

haha gangs with myspace pages feels VERY baltimore to me

Halfway through season four and I can see why it swept this. It's ridiculously tight and assured. I think I slightly prefer 2 to 3 though.

i'm still working on season 1, and i'm pretty excited that this show is supposed to get better and better b/c, well, season 1 is pretty fucking great!

already pretty addicting too

just watched 'one arrest' big payoffs in this episode, tho i like the episodes where nothing really happens too

I wish I was still at season 1. I've watched it all the way through 4 times now. It is still just as great, but little things that didn't bug you the first time through kind of do once you start picking over the carcass. Like some of the music selection in season 1 just doesn't feel right. And Jimmy's accent is a little off. And those b/w shots from security cameras that they quietly ditched after season 1. And...oh who am I kidding I could watch this over and over forever.

Season 4 though is where it all comes together in the most satisfying way. Season 2 is also great but Ziggy is so fucking irritating. Season 1 with hindsight is more of a groundwork-laying season. Season 3 and 5 are the most obviously didactic, like the writers are really trying to drive home their point about institutions through the over-the-top conceits that underpin both seasons. Still great though.

I have to say also that you do have to judge the Wire at the Season-level. Most other shows have the occasional duff episode, but I really can't remember ever finishing an episode of the Wire and thinking that was a stinker. The show has such consistency right the way through.

Like some of the music selection in season 1 just doesn't feel right.

It gets me a bit that the dealers always listen to chart hip-hop in their cars rather than hardcore gangster shit.

VERY MINOR SPOILERS:

I think my fondness for two comes from the boldness of taking a swerve to an entirely different location and set of supporting characters after only one season. Also the whole scenario of docks and smuggling and unions seemed really fresh and unfamiliar.

Yeah, for most shows, I think such a swerve would be a death knell, but they really pull it off. When I first saw Season 2 I couldn't see how they were going to top it to be honest.

Seasons 2 and 4 are also my favourite because they are so tight and focussed thematically and yet at the same time they managed to keep the main plot simmering. Season 3 has more of a transitionary feel to it as they clear up a lot of the Barksdale stuff and pave the way for Marlo. And again Season 5 feels rushed because they were trying to tie up the loose ends.

I have a feeling that it would have lost its way after Season 5, but it would be interesting to see how they would have followed it: it was mooted at one point that Season 6 would have focussed on the Hispanic community.

1 and 2 best for me. surprised 1 did so well. didn't think 3 was great tbh. good at the end but not all the way through.

Three lost focus a bit in the middle for me as well. All the dithering over hamsterdam is essential to the plot and themes, but not as riveting as machevellian gangster scheming and people getting capped.

I think they only really clocked onto to the local Baltimore music scene around Season 4 or at least got someone on board who knew anything about it. As a Britisher it didn't really occur to me that it was weird for D'Angelo or whoever to be listening to backpacker-type stuff until the second time through. It is strange though that they neglected that side of things given how scrupulous they were with everything else, although I think I read that if they made the music *too* contemporary it would date more rapidly, especially with US audiences.

I do like how they managed to shoehorn Dead Meadow into it on a couple of occasions. The main guy in that is David Simon's son.

Hamsterdam for me just required a little too much suspension of disbelief - I just couldn't imagine it happening.

I thought the music in the first two seasons stood out a mile as being too backpacker.

The other reservation I'd have about the show music wise is a few cringey parts where they're just endorsing v classic music way too ostentatiously. EG Bunny playing Billie Holliday when he brings the kids out for dinner and they're all "She sounds so sweet Mr Bunny" etc etc. Just like shoehorned stuff.

A similar thing happened in Lambeth a few years ago, albeit with the full knowledge of the establishment and press.

xpost

One bit I really like tho is, when, in season 4 (I think) just before the election, when Carcetti goes to the gospel church, the reverend is leaving and he's talking to some of his advisers or whatever and they're like "there's a meeting at two" and he says "if I'm late...." and they rhythmically finish his sentence "we'll wait." echoing the Jesse Winchester track used at the end of season 1. real pleasing.

xpost

I think it is really the keeping it secret for so long that makes it a bit difficult to swallow.

xpost

never noticed that. There is something to look out for on the 5th run-through...

the music in season 2 is good, more familiar ground maybe for the producers? i think the steve earle montage is the best montage. also that 'i walk the line' montage.

The Paul Weller montage at the end of S4 somehow made the season even more depressing.

I thought S4 lost the run of itself completely by the end, it starts off amazingly but just loses steam. I mean in the last two eps what are you even supposed to be excited about? There's no plot.

Reckon Season 2 is the most barnstorming of the lot, Sebodka's speech about surviving Reagan etc is one of the highlights of the whole show for me (not seen S5 yet.) Also the montage with the Greek music is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAathqcWAYk

from about 1:40, listen to how fucking demented that greek music is. need me some of that.

okay if we're avoiding spoilers here someone better delete that...tho I can't see why someone who hadn't seen show would check here

tbh it's now six years old!

Series two and three have the best conclusions - the virtual destruction of the Sobotka family and Stringer and Avon doing each other over are such satisfying ends to their respective story arcs.

I mean in the last two eps what are you even supposed to be excited about?

I dunno, the bit where Lester suddenly works out where the bodies are is great. Still, I sort of think of 4 and 5 as a continuation of one another because you see what happens to the kids. That's why I'm not really down with the S5 haters.

It's only found a widespread audience in the UK over the last year or so though. I think I only know about two people who don't fall into the categories of having just finished it, being in the middle of it, or being about to start it.

xpost

I dunno, it's been rippling here for aeons now, I resisted watching it for ages cos I was sick of being told I'd like it for what feels like 2 years or so.

gonna start mad men tonight I think, waiting to watch s5 on an all dayer with some friends...

Ah, you're in for a treat with Mad Men. Way more of a slow burner than The Wire though.

idk about that, but it's the effing shiznitz.

I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere but watching 8mm for the first time after seeing the Wire makes the movie's climax infinitely more loltastic. I don't know if I'd say I recommend seeing 8mm, but there is a pay off for Wire junkies.

Ah, you're in for a treat with Mad Men. Way more of a slow burner than The Wire though.

how much slower can it be than a show that doesn't hit its stride until the 3rd season

I don't know if I'd say I recommend seeing 8mm, but there is a pay off for Wire junkies.

wait, so what is it? I have seen 8mm, but it was before I'd watched the wire, and I am not watching 8mm again!

a show that doesn't hit its stride until the 3rd season

well this is bullshit.

but also 'mad men' isn't a slow burner... different kind of show, more character-based.

wait, so what is it? I have seen 8mm, but it was before I'd watched the wire, and I am not watching 8mm again!

otm, what is this payoff?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134273/

Check the cast and imagine your reaction when The Machine finally takes his mask off IF you had seen The Wire first.

I've been re-watching season five and I'm beginning to think it's a bit underrated. Templeton’s' character doesn't irritate me nearly as much as it initially did and Gus’s character makes a plausible metro city editor. Overall, I think the newspaper stuff was quite well done except for the serial killer nonsense. I think if the writers had just left out the serial killer angle, and stayed with Templeton's "little white lies and exaggerations," they would’ve driven home the media's inadequacies much more effectively. On the plus side, the Omar, Marlo, Bubbles, “the kids”, and Prop Joe sub-plots were well written. But I do see why people think five is the worst of the Wire, all too often the season felt rushed, too obvious, and truncated; more like a really good series of Law and Order episodes instead of the Wire.

As for additional seasons, I would have loved seeing more of the Greeks. Oh yeah, five needs more Cutty.

http://www.hbo.com/thewire/img/episodeguide/season02/ep21_nick_sobotka.jpg

[after removing his mask for the first time]
George Higgins: What were you expecting? A monster?

i think s5 just needed more time. if there were two more episodes showing how badly screwed up the dept was by the budget situation (thanks carcetti) with cops, including "good" guys like bunk and freamon, pulling ever-riskier little schemes to gin up resources just to get their work done, and only really crossing the line to fabricating crimes after those started to fail, it would all make more sense. it seems much more likely that cops would start doing omar-like vigilante crimes -- jacking drug dealers for their cash outright, and paying for repairs to their cars themselves, let's say -- than making the leap right away to a huge fraud. the payoffs to the serial killer plot are great but getting into it is really shaky.

anyway every wire stan has probably been making this argt lo these many years, eh...

but also 'mad men' isn't a slow burner... different kind of show, more character-based.

With MM it wasn't until a good two thirds of the way through the first season, and I'd got to know the characters quite well, that I got how masterful it is. I could see what was special about The Wire pretty much from the off - it's more visceral, maybe I should've phrased it that way.

from about 1:40, listen to how fucking demented that greek music is. need me some of that.

― Local Garda, Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:59 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

track 18 on this!

http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Pieces-Matter-Years-Music/dp/B000YDOOT6

it's on spotify, the soundtrack. really good tune!

took me a good few eps to really start enjoying the wire I have to say...bout halfway through just found myself watching 3 eps in a row.

I couldn't agree more with goole. The extra episodes would have made all the difference in season five. By the way, why did HBO cut the number of episodes? Seems like a strange thing to do for the last season.

Interesting tidbit c&ped from here:

Once upon a time, back before it looked like HBO needed to be shamed into ordering a fourth and, especially, a fifth season of "The Wire," David Simon had plans for a miniseries called "The Hall." It would follow Tommy Carcetti, Clarence Royce and Tony Grey in their race for mayor, possibly include some other "Wire" characters in small roles, then have Tommy in office to start season four.

I need a Wire fix. Have never really paid much attention to The Sheild. Is at all comparable to The Wire in tone, plot, and character development or should I skip?

I started watching the Shield almost immediately after watching the Wire and thought it was ott garbage. Didn't even finish the first season. However, I have heard that it really comes into its own from like Season 3 onwards so I dunno.

I couldn't really go back to a cop-show model where crime investigations could be wrapped up in the space of 45 minutes.

Is at all comparable to The Wire in tone, plot, and character development or should I skip?

not ever in tone, no. 'the shield' is mostly suspense-based. in plot there are some similarities later on. it doesn't wrap up everything in 45 minutes (or at least, it doesn't in later seasons). i wouldn't say character development was a strong point on 'the wire': they come out about equal.

they get compared because they are both good cop shows that debuted in 2002 and have important links to 'homicide: life on the street', but 'the shield' is much more of a cop show. you don't have anything like the dealers, the dockers, the schoolkids. but city politics play a role. it's a lot less didactic.

I like five the least. Maybe 2? Or 4? So hard to pick one. :-(

x-post. Thanks for the Shield info guys. Guess I'll skip.

Each episode of The Shield seems more self-contained to me, but with a wider overarching plot. Then again I'm only four eps into S1 so maybe I should stfu.

people who need a Wire fix should read Simon's books. Homicide is great and I just started The Corner and am pretty wrapped up in it already.

^seconded

reading Richard Price's Clockers now & there are at least 3 classic The Wire scenes in first 50 pages.

Pelicanos also wrote some classic Wire ish so I'm lookin for recommendations there

Just watched the movie Clockers, and it was okay, but I'd probably prefer the book, I guess.

I do like how they managed to shoehorn Dead Meadow into it on a couple of occasions. The main guy in that is David Simon's son.

Nephew, actually.

Been rewatching the series and I'm amazed to realize how much I initially overrated 2 and underrated 3! So many brilliant things in 3!! Just getting rolling with 4 but damn, those kids are awesome. So much more character and development than the s1 boys, even though I <3 Wallace & Bodie for all time.

Finished 4 last night. Dang it's great.

Poor Bubbs! Poor Dukie!

Oh man prez's first day teaching! <3

Pelicanos also wrote some classic Wire ish so I'm lookin for recommendations there

Drama City is the only one I've read, but it's kind of quotidian, albeit deliberately. It has doggies in it, though, so: recommended.

As far as Pelecanos goes, if you enjoyed the characters of Lester and Prez, then you will probably enjoy the Derek Strange and Terry Quinn trilogy, Right As Rain, Hell To Pay, and Soul Circus. Pelecanos obviously riffed on a lot of similar characters and scenes for the Wire.

Another big crime writer on the Wire is Dennis Lehane. I've read some of his Kenzie-Gennaro novels (hard-boiled crime fiction) and they are worth a read, although more mainstream and schlocky than Pelecanos.

Pelecanos is nowhere as good as Price. The movie version of Clockers was pretty annoying, I couldn't finish it, but the book is amazing.

Useless trivia: Richard Price actually has a cameo in the Wire doesn't he? Isn't he the teacher of the prison reading group of which D'Angelo is a member? I don't know if any of the other writers have similar cameos (David Simon pops up once or twice as a journo).

so i finished season 1 the other night - best police procedural i think i've ever seen.

started season 2 last night, did a binge and watched the first 4 episodes. was really tough tbh, and wasn't until the 4th episode that i felt like i was really getting into it. the total change-up in characters/story was pretty jarring at first, and i definitely missed the street characters (or missed the bigger roles they had in the 1st season).

also i know ziggy's supposed to be an ignorant annoying fuck, but yea, he's really fucking annoying. the docks are getting more interesting now but the first 3 eps were kind of drag

Stick with it, the arcs of the three main stevadores (Nick, Frank and Ziggy) are all really well done.

it isn't a procedural

what, season 1? or the show in general

Season 1's the closest to a procedural.

yea i'm getting that the show as a whole is a lot more than a police procedural. but i'm not sure what else would more accurately describe season 1

The cop side of things in S1 can be described as such - the dealers thread is more, I don't know, social drama?

It all has its roots in police procedurals, right? I mean for all its greatness it isn't sui generis.

I mean they do spend a great deal of time in every season outlining in painstaking detail how the investigation unfolds.

I'm just being a pedant. In terms of drama, to quote wiki, "procedural dramas are television series which rely on an episodic format that does not require the viewer to have seen previous episodes. Episodes typically have a self-contained, also referred to as stand-alone, plot that is introduced and resolved within the same episode. This format is often referred to as "case-of-the-week".

I think that definition may be erroneous, I understand it as a narrative in which an inordinate amount of time is spent detailing the specifics and mechanics of solving a crime. You can have novels that are police procedurals too.

it was widely, widely used when i worked in TV.

Oh ok, I concede to your greater knowledge.

It was widely, widely used when I was in the library.

TV needs more season-spanning police procedurals imho.

1 > 2

i thought i was gonna hate season 2 a couple episodes in, but they really got into a groove and i started liking it more and more as the season went along. feel like i might like it even more a second time. i think ive just got a whole lot more sympathy for barksdale's crew than zobotka's though the greeks were sweet and i hope they're back next season (don't tell me).

nick's girlfriend's boobs cancel out by far the two worst characters on the show so far, brother mouzon and ziggy

this is pretty much otm though eventually i came to have a retrospective fondness for the dock guys like ayo they were alright

the dock guys fucking rule

"...and I don't know why you got Horseface up there."

Astonished at the love of season 3. For me, 1=2=4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3=5.

It's sometimes hard for me to believe 3 and 5 were made by the same people as the others. Zero coherence, no themes, some dud characters. I can only guess people like it for the same reason they hated the end to The Sopranos--you get some kind of gratuitous closure when Stringer is killed.

I am so in love with this show. Love it even more than the Sopranos. We also watched The Shield. Started watching Homocide and Oz. But nothing comes close to The Wire. Awesomest awesomeness.

gang names seem kinda '90s

― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:15 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark

So this revive is to the subconversation about gang names from a year ago, but I figured I'd bring up Black Guerilla Family, since they're in the news this week.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md.hermann-bgf-indictment-20100413,0,5438346.story?page=1

guess I shouldn't have given up after s3

halfway through season 4 now and it might be my favorite yet

I adore this show. I just rewatched Season Four. Knowing what happens to Duquan in Season Five makes this especially poignant; I teared up.

hiyo five years late

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/oct/14/life-wire/?pagination=false

o man i know.. i love lorrie moore but i really really dont need to read anything more abt the wire at this point

We need a best image from opening montages poll

always into stringer unzipping d's gf's jacket

S3 - completely forgot about Prez shooting the black cop, holy shit

I rewatched s1 and s2 recently, s2 was way way better than I remembered it, the whole thing with the docks/Sobotkas was masterfully done

it was funny, I remembered the s1 e1 being such a boring painful switch from the barksdale crew and the streets and it felt the same way this time but once he season gets into it, and especially by the last few episodes it is just amazing

it was funny, I remembered the s1 e1 being such a boring painful switch

s2 e1 rather

Yeah, I remember being

http://i.imgur.com/2HYcebt.jpg

What the hell is this shit.

lol yes like are we really talking about stained glass donations to a church

Yeah from a distance it's all about s2

yea in many ways I do think it's the best

oh no you guys i don't have time to run through this series again and this talk isn't helping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhX7hvzlaGc

xp - I started like ten days ago and I'm halfway through S3

Fucking hivemind... Randomly decided to pop in s1 e1 - five days later I'm 3 deep in season two. Fucking love this show.

Season two might be the most important of the show, it's the one carefully putting down the foundation for an extended run, after season one ends pretty conclusively. I rewatched it a while back and was surprised at how great it was as well. But once you get to season four, it's pretty clear what's best. Those episodes are amazing.

Ha, wife and I just jumped into S3 after many years away. Still really great and so much easier to pick up in the little things the second time thru!

I've said this somewhere before but I still can't bring myself to rewatch S4, just too emotional to hang out with those kids.

And it's harder to watch when you already know where their arcs go.

That said, I re-watched s4 last year then had to stop after 1 ep of s5 because it's just too corny

I watched a new Hannibal Buress netflix special the other night, and there's a bit about how his dad is just now getting around to watching the wire and enthusiastic about it and Hannibal didn't want to spoil the fact that S2 is the worst season, and I was like what? Season 2 is soooo underrated. Don't know if it is the best, but it's really good.

Snoop buying the nail gun is the best cold open ever.

S5 is the only one I haven't rew... re-screened, I'm curious how that's going to go as a binge vs. week to week.

there are plenty of good parts in S5.

Snoop buying the nail gun is the best cold open ever.

Cold open for the season, right?

S5 had moments but in some ways everything has been SO PERFECT albeit DEVASTATING up to that point that it can't help but disappoint

I have to agree with Hannibal - season two is the low point for me.

And it's still phenomenal as far as low points go.

ha I read on wikipedia that when s2 was rebroadcast on BET most of the docks shit was cut out

That would make it a pretty short season

Seriously. That's like 60 mins tops without the polishes.

I just got to the ep where D departs, btw. Down as I may be on this season - that shit still breaks my heart.

He was who he was, and he did what he did.

did these come out on16x9 format yet?

The Frank Sobotka "we used to build shit" stuff didn't play as well this time around but Nick and Ziggy are such wonderful tragic characters.

One of the details that pisses me off a lot is how the FBI gets involved immediately once it becomes about 'union busting', but does nothing against crime in general. Season 2 is a whole lot about skewed interest.

4 eps into S5, just starting the serial killer bit. Newsroom stuff is a little less strident than I remember, but still not very good (aside from Gus's acting), the parallels are way too blunt. Wish the emphasis had been more on city politics behind the police cutbacks instead of police and paper response.

RIP Ziggy

Also my favorite character in Generation Kill. Really sad.