Why are there so few female film directors?

its kinda weird

There are some prominent ones, e.g.,Sofia Coppola.

if women are socialized to be looked at, maybe it's unsurprising that they don't choose/aren't chosen to do the looking

yeah that would explain the dearth of female artists, authors and photographers as well

http://thephoenix.com/BLOGS/blogs/outsidetheframe/nair-mira.jpg

maybe it's rampant entrenched sexism in the film industry

just sayin

artists, authors and photographers are not managers

I know there are a handful active in the Hollywood system (Taymor, Campion, etc.) but the percentages are ridiculously low, especially compared to other creative professions.

do adult men and women predominate among the subject matter of female photographers the way they do in the movies?

who is that in the photo, Allison Anders?

lolz who's gonna rep for Penny Marshall

Sofia Coppola of course has family connections

many prominent female directors seem to come from other countries

who is that in the photo, Allison Anders?

Mira Nair

Kelly Reichardt

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Kathryn Bigelow!

do adult men and women predominate among the subject matter of female photographers the way they do in the movies?

? cindy sherman, nan goldin, mary ellen mark, annie liebovitz, jodi cobb. . . .

I can think of a few reasons:

* Film directing is probably considered a more "technical" (and hence stereotypically more masculine) way of doing art than, for example, painting or dancing. Especially since a lot if not most movie directors start by doing all the technical stuff like editing and shooting themselves, before their career reaches a point where they can hire others to do it.

* Making a movie requires a lot more financial backing, know-how, networking, etc, than painting or writing poems, for example. You've got a better chance of getting all that if you're a member of the Boys' Club.

* A film director is kinda like a CEO, and people stereotypically trust male leaders better than female leaders.

cindy sherman takes pictures of herself

yah--she's an adult woman tho and that's what you were asking about

of Que's list, only Liebovitz would seem to act as a 'director' of straight men in her work, and she does, or originally did, so under the auspices of a male institution (often devoted to puffing up (sometimes gender-bending) men)

all of them take pictures of adult men and women

I think you'll find many of the artistic positions that are more like "leader of a group" than "a solitary artist" to be male dominated: classical conductors, band leaders, theatre directors, etc. That's because in "solitary arts" a women can just say "Screw you!" to all the gender stereotypes and do whatever she wants, whereas with "group arts" you have to depend on financial and social backing from others, so the stereotypes are harder to ignore.

http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/movies/feature/2002/08/27/women_directors/index.html

Women don't belong behind a camera – they belong behind a hot plate.

I'd have to guess that Nancy Meyers (The Parent Trap, What Women Want, Something's Gotta Give, The Holiday) is one of the most successful woman directors these days, box-office-wise.

mimi leder
claire denis
catherine breillat

lol thread is all mangs posting

Especially since a lot if not most movie directors start by doing all the technical stuff like editing

Editing seems to be a a pretty female friendly profession in the film industry

Thelma Schoonmaker, yo.

Jill Sprecher
Susan Streitfeld

Much more common than camera, errrrrrrr, persons for instance!

Susan Seidelman
Sarah Polley

Belladonna

lols I am gross-o

Not that bad a representation when compared to, say, being a music producer or conducting an orchestra

Lisa Cholodenko

Julie Delpy
Robin Swicord
Kasi Lemmons
Nicole Holofcener
Nancy Meyers

Good we have named a whole bunch of people found thru google searches that hardly anyone wld be familiar with; glass ceiling broken.

Callie Khouri

i like that this has turned into "name whatever female directors u can think of off the top of your head"

amy heckerling

That was always going to happen (xp)

xpost Yeah, are we just naming female directors now? Doesn't prove anything, but OK:

Agnes Varda
Mary Harron
Kimberly Peirce
Lynne Ramsay

whole bunch of people found thru google searches that hardly anyone wld be familiar with

sorry, no

it proves that there are not zero female film directors.

wtf is naming female film directors proving, exactly?

it proves that there are not zero female film directors.

asia argento

maybe we're not proving anything ;)

ida lupino

I knew all of these names already and have seen all of their films, mostly in small cinemas in foreign countries.

glad 2 see weve solved this issue good work everyone

Yes. Job done. What's next?

that hardly anyone wld be familiar with

Uh mostly yes gabbnebb, I'm not film-illiterate but Sofia and Amy Heckerling (who I love!) are the only ones I know just by hearing their names. Heckerling, who in spite of being a big name and director of well-liked movies had her last film buried straight to DVD for really no reason.

I mean you shouldn't have to do film festival circuits to be able to prove whatever point it is you are making.

How do you strike a balance between wanting to entertain a mass audience, and also wanting to write something that's true, and maybe even a little painful?

Heckerling: Well, there's another element involved, and that's knowing that there really are young people out there who care a great deal about what you say to them. There are these images and characters you want to give them to look up to, vs. what you're going to be allowed to do or say. It can be something as simple as a girl dressing a certain way. Do you dress her up so that she's comfortable, or so she'll look pretty, or because you like the way it looks? Is it too sexual? Do you want your daughter to have to dress that way and worry about it? It's tough.

Gillian Armstrong
Nora Ephron
Phyllida Lloyd

harmony korine should be a woman's name

And Sofia, believe it or not, MIGHT have a nepotism factor benefiting her. I know, I know, it's some grande challops.

antonia bird

miranda july is actually a dude

uh no

mirando

ugh why did I look up Heckerling's filmography ;_;

i don't think there is a single (American) director named on this thread who you need to go to a film festival to see, at least if you live in a major American city like most Ilxors.

wtf is naming female film directors proving, exactly?

― Lamp, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 17:33 (8 minutes ago) Permalink

that eventually we will have enough names to poll them on their physical attractiveness

cat power

well this thread didn't work out very well. Although I'm glad this random list of names has proven once and for all that there's no glass ceiling of sexism in the film industry. Tuomas the lone voice of reason (oddly)

Wim Wenders
Akira Kurosawa
McG

ugh gabbnebb I guess the thing is even most people in major American cities are probably not watching those movies AND (everyone forgets) not everyone lives in major American cities...before Netflix most of these wld be hard to RENT in less than 250k population cities. I mean, if you asked a non-ILXor person, say a coworker at the office or another person on the bus, to name even 25 directors it's really unlikely a woman wld come up, tho you are doing an A+ job at deluding yrself hey good job.

Why are there so few female anythings at the top of any industry or art?

it was hollywood's blatant sexism that prevented leslie nielsen from moving into the director's chair

btw Edward III I <3 you

abbott i agree w/ you generally but i think the a decent % of ppl could name popular female directors michel gondry or ridley scott

No woman has ever won best director, and only three have ever been nominated: Lina Wertmüller for 1976's Seven Beauties, Jane Campion for 1993's The Piano and Sofia Coppola for 2003's Lost in Translation.

One nearly every decade since the 1970s hey female directors are all over the place.

It's weird that I'm having to argue the thread title is an accurate & valid question!

That's how ignorance works, let's just pretend sexism isn't an issue and make some jokes.

i agree w/ u abbott

but i still support making some jokes

It's pretty impressive that film has been around less that 125 years and is full of institutionalized sexism.

I am all about the female name joeks too btw.

you are doing an A+ job at deluding yrself hey good job.

i'm not making the point you think i'm making, but good job deluding yrself

what point are you making then?

Why are there so few female anythings at the top of any industry or art?

fair (and fairly easily) answered question - but in the case of this particular industry I wonder what it is about film/directing that makes sexist "old boys' club" networks more enduring than in, say (as already mentioned), music or photography or literature or whatever. I mean, there are probably more female heads of state than there are well-known, mainstream female film directors... for an industry widely perceived as deeply liberal (and one that congratulates itself regularly for being so - heyo Oscars!) this seems like a rather glaring incongruity.

x-posts

i would have agreed with abbott except i read the fantastic list of popular successful female directors provided in this thread so now im wondering why there are so few male directors working nowadays

<3 <3 <3

guess:

considering how alpha-male assholish most film sets are, film studios probably prefer to have another alpha-male type on set to "handle" the stars (especially the male ones) and it's believed that women couldn't do it. it's tough for even the best female directors to get work; if you're a female director and you have a couple of hits in a row, you'll be okay, but if you have a single flop you're in trouble. a male director can have five flops in a row and still get work. there's pretty much no excuse for someone like kathyrn bigelow to find it difficult to land projects considering the fact that she's one of the best directors in her genre (unless she's just someone who takes her time working on projects.)

what point are you making then?

― cant go with u too many alfbrees (Abbott), Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Could be asked for 99% of gabbnebb's posts.

and yeah as Abbott points out this is the YOUNGEST medium on the planet - its weird that older, more heavily institutionalized mediums with traditions of excluding women are somehow actually more open than the film industry

x-posts

what point are you making then?

gabbneb's one and only point is that he (purportedly) knows shit about stuff

No, no, I want his answer.

Video games are a younger medium and shit's got less pussy than Melmac.

it was hollywood's blatant sexism that prevented leslie nielsen from moving into the director's chair

― velko, Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:52 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

surely you can't be serious

did you just make an alf joke

I rofld

actually I was just wondering the other day, are there any female orchestra conductors?

yes ALF eats cats get it?

fair (and fairly easily) answered question - but in the case of this particular industry I wonder what it is about film/directing that makes sexist "old boys' club" networks more enduring than in, say (as already mentioned), music or photography or literature or whatever.

I really do think getting to a position to secure enough money and resources to make a feature film is one of the biggest obsctacles here, though how gender works in all that is kinda complicated. With the other three fields you mention, a person can work with much less money and/or by herself to create something.

btw I <3 you too abbott iirc

Francis Coppola, Sidney Lumet, Linda Wachowski, Julia Schnabel, Tuomas

haha this thread is CLASSIC gabbneb saying something stupid and then defending it obtusely and then claiming that he said something else

actually I was just wondering the other day, are there any female orchestra conductors?

The conductor of the Key West Symphony is a woman; she's the only one who instantly leaps to mind.

its spelled frances, jeff

martina scorsese

marin alsop of the baltimore symphony is a lady

marin scorsese

considering how alpha-male assholish most film sets are, film studios probably prefer to have another alpha-male type on set to "handle" the stars (especially the male ones) and it's believed that women couldn't do it. it's tough for even the best female directors to get work; if you're a female director and you have a couple of hits in a row, you'll be okay, but if you have a single flop you're in trouble. a male director can have five flops in a row and still get work. there's pretty much no excuse for someone like kathyrn bigelow to find it difficult to land projects considering the fact that she's one of the best directors in her genre (unless she's just someone who takes her time working on projects.)

― blair underwood: "man up" (omar little), Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ ya otm

I really do think getting to a position to secure enough money and resources to make a feature film is one of the biggest obsctacles here, though how gender works in all that is kinda complicated. With the other three fields you mention, a person can work with much less money and/or by herself to create something.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:07 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol no. you can write/paint a book/symphony/painting on your own but you can't get it printed/performed/exhibited solo. you have to play the game just as you do in movies -- sure there's *less* money, but it still involves people with jobs and kids to feed at some point in the process. if anything though, publishing especially seem to be relatively female-dominated, at least at the medium-power level if not the top.

i saw Marin Alsop conduct last week in Baltimore (and a few months prior in NY)

i like how Shakey's question was really easy to answer so we sat around with nothing better to do than name some female directors and try to bait gabbneb and shit

thanks reggiano

i'm pretty sure McG is a unisex name so maybe she is a woman.

ban parmesan-reggiano

weI sat around with nothing better to do than name some female directors and try to bait gabbnebthe rest of ILX and shit

To me it seems no coincidence that the most female-dominated arts seem to be the ones where you usually create things by yourself (literature and visual arts), and with "collective arts" women are more likely to be found in the lower end of the hierarchy than the upper end. In Finland, for example, there are more female classical instrumentalists than male ones, but the positions in conducting and leading the orchestras are still dominated by men.

Criminally, I don't think I'd heard of Marin Alsop before 3 minutes ago. (My excuse is that I only know conductors I've sung with.)

stephanie speilburg

also tho omar's point is a good one - film sets are some of the last place's u can treat ppl with open contempt w/o censure i think atmosphere maybe a good partial explanation. also i guess the subject matter of many hollywood films - comics, dude comedies, sci fi shit obv gender stereotyping female director's dont seem to have as much trouble getting work helming mama mia or w/e but fewer of those movies get made?

xpost dan the only reason i've heard of her is b/c of Washington Post articles, not because i'm into the classical music scene

people have been conducting in one form or another since the middle ages, so I don't think you can blame "young art form"

there's actually a documentary about the rarity of women conductors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Woman_Is_a_Risky_Bet:_Six_Orchestra_Conductors

^released in finland as hey! we're conducting

LOL

film sets are some of the last place's u can treat ppl with open contempt w/o censure

this is SO true. The stuff I hear from my film industry buddies would never fly in 99% of other workplaces

comics, dude comedies, sci fi shit obv gender stereotyping female director's dont seem to have as much trouble getting work helming mama mia or w/e but fewer of those movies get made?

eh I dunno about that - have you heard of this little genre called romcoms

there's gotta be at least a dozen of those a year

lol no. you can write/paint a book/symphony/painting on your own but you can't get it printed/performed/exhibited solo. you have to play the game just as you do in movies -- sure there's *less* money, but it still involves people with jobs and kids to feed at some point in the process.

True, but in writing or painting you at least have the chance to try to break through even if you don't have much initial financing, whereas in film this is less likely, because the whole process of making you art swallows much more money.

"Get in here, Lloyd, I want to make out with you"

^released in finland as hey! we're conducting

^^^well done

I know the only woman director I can think of who did all the shit herself was Nina Paley (of 'Sita Sings the Blues') who couldn't have done it before computer-based animation, and took four years of her own time/$$$ doing it and STILL can't get the damn thing released.

There's a difference between not finding the resources to get your product marketed and not even having a product because of the lack of resources.

(xxx-post)

basically the entertainment industry is too alpha-male for anyone but the female directors who have "proved themselves", and by that i mean they've proved themselves more times over and on a higher level than their male compatriots. plus the industry on a whole is one where males can still call women cunts on set and get away with it and the women will basically be told to get over it, can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, etc

"actually I was just wondering the other day, are there any female orchestra conductors?

Emmanuele Haim, Jane Glover

eh I dunno about that - have you heard of this little genre called romcoms

u r missing my argument which is maybe not good but goes like this - there is basically a 0% chance of a chick getting 2 direct terminator, dude comedies &c and a larger but still not huge % chance of her directing girl movies like romcoms. and the majority of movies made right now are going 2 be of the 1st type rather than the 2nd skewing the # of opportunities for female directors even lower

also and its interesting i think that there is a decent # of female execs, agents &c in hollywood none of whom seem particularly comfortable dealing w/ female directors

Agnes Jaoui, Kira Muratova, Agnieszka Holland, slab of ham, penis penis penis

"Mr. and Mrs. Penis, you have a lovely daughter. What will you name her?"
"We have the most beautiful name picked..."

Tuomas is pretty much OTM this thread so far.

Editing seems to be a a pretty female friendly profession in the film industry

In the early days of cinema it was primarily women editing film.

I want to say it was for some totally sexist reason like 'they have such little hands and can spend hours and hours cutting up film!'

don't know if this was mentioned upthread, but sight and sound had a Spirit of '68 issue last May where they interviewed a few contemporary french directors including Catherine Breillait about he legacy of the Paris riots and she kinda said, whatever it was just something else for all the boys to rally around, it didn't really affect anyone outside of that except make one more myth to live up to. Totally paraphrased and tangential but I kinda think its relevant somehow. Peace.

considering how alpha-male assholish most film sets are, film studios probably prefer to have another alpha-male type on set to "handle" the stars (especially the male ones) and it's believed that women couldn't do it.

Or rather, the woman who is capable of managing a film production, and behaves in the manner of the "alpha male," is perceived as a "ballbreaker" and thus a "threat" to the male stars.

Also, Hollywood operates very much on name recognition--stars who are able to "open" a movie or "properties" that already have a following are more likely to make it through the production process. Other than maybe Sofia Coppola, I can't think of any American female directors who have this level of name recognition.

I want to say it was for some totally sexist reason like 'they have such little hands and can spend hours and hours cutting up film!'

Or in the days before cinema became AN ART, women provided cheaper labor.

Somewhat tangential, but the more I read about Ida Lupino (and the more I see of her films), the more amazing I realise she must have been to be a director when she was.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/may/20/profile-women-film-directors

I love Diane Keaton's Heaven. Totally disorienting cut-up sampledelic documentary on beliefs concerning the afterlife. She even samples a lot of the same materials as Negativland, and used 'Walter Westinghouse' by the Residents as soundtrack the section on Hell.

I kind of assumed there'd be at least one rave blog review of how ahead that film was, but just found some withering NYT review, who at least had the virtue of being completely wrong, but was shocked to see coverage hasn't caught up to that one

i remember seeing her promote that on Letterman.

In the early days of cinema it was primarily women editing film.

― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I want to say it was for some totally sexist reason like 'they have such little hands and can spend hours and hours cutting up film!'

― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's just a different form of sewing

the edit bay is the kitchen of the entertainment industry

guys, i feel like it's almost evenly matched when it comes to documentaries

this year women swept sundance doc awards

because documentaries are less about the "vision" (i.e. the ego) of the director?

or at least, they should be.

Editing seems to be a a pretty female friendly profession in the film industry

In the early days of cinema it was primarily women editing film.

― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:01 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I want to say it was for some totally sexist reason like 'they have such little hands and can spend hours and hours cutting up film!'

― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:02 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

iirc also lots of women in other important branches, especially scenario-construction, and script-girling, though not direction* so much.

though it should be said that editors were not credited as such for a looooong time, and it wasn't seen as a creative act for a looooong time. but e.g. alma reville, who married hitchcock, was an editor/scenario-editor senior to him... until he overtook her lol.

*lot of early directors were the producers: it was only in the 1920s that 'director' properly caught on as a thing. could be another long-term historical factor in this.

Maybe a little earlier in Germany? Peeps like Murnau or Wegener were directing in the 1910s when the producer role was owned by the studio I think.

oh yeah i just mean the word "director" rather than the function. the two words co-existed for quite a while.

Susan Streitfeld

― Reggiano Jackson (gabbneb), Tuesday, 26 May 2009 17:21 (Yesterday)

her film female perversions is a favorite of mine. it addresses women's messy relationship to careers and success (and to sex and to sanity and to family), so it's likely to interest most folks invested in this thread. it's arty (based on a monograph about feminism and psychoanalysis, whoa) and smutty (produced by zalman king wtf) and freaky (would fit into that "vaguely lynchian indie shit" thread). it starts in a very icy, clinical cronenberg-like mode but drifts towards an emotionally resonant ending.

unfortunately she never made another feature film... probably had something to do with the patriarchal conspiracy...

it's a favorite of mine too

and ppl should know that it stars Tilda Swinton

in maybe her best role?

yes, she is incredible in it. the marketing of the film was atrocious (e.g. paulina porizkova has a brief role but is featured prominently on the vhs box), can't imagine how many dudes rented this thinking oh here's some quality red shoe diary softcore and getting hit w/ a freakazoid feminist screed that features delights such as a teenage cutter who likes to bury her menses in the desert. I dunno, maybe that was the point?

speaking of lynchian, his daughter jennifer is back in the director's chair

15 years in the wilderness seems like appropriate penance for boxing helena

jennifer lynch's new movie is called hisss and apparently mallika sherawat plays a snake

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/hisstrailer2.jpg

o lol i had 2 review her last one, 'surveillance'. it sucks, but probably not as bad as boxing helena. haven't seen it but.

'surveillance' was very early 90s.

This is as good a thread as any to ask if anybody's seen Anna Biller's Viva and if so shd I make efforts to go see it or shd I not bother?

because documentaries are less about the "vision" (i.e. the ego) of the director?

― N1ck (Upt0eleven), Wednesday, 27 May 2009 09:35 (8 hours ago) Permalink

or at least, they should be.

― N1ck (Upt0eleven), Wednesday, 27 May 2009 09:36 (8 hours ago) Permalink

plz stay off rolling documentary, kthx

in the case of this particular industry I wonder what it is about film/directing that makes sexist "old boys' club" networks more enduring than in, say (as already mentioned), music or photography or literature or whatever

I basically agree with everything that's been said above about film being so much more of an organized and hierarchical activity, and I'd add that it's that way in terms of its dissemination as well -- a lot of other art forms have an easier time dealing with niche audiences, whereas with film there are huge, complicated, and very monetarily vexed and marketing-intensive systems of what goes where.

I'm not sure how much I believe this matters, but I'd also add that mass-market films are really, really calcified in terms of genre expectations, so if you happened to believe that there are types of stories or films that women might be more inclined to want to tell or view (which is maybe true in certain ways and untrue in others), the rigid, pre-existing, marketing-based ideas of what films are supposed to be like would be working furiously against that.

And I don't know a ton about the industry, but my sense has always been that women are way underrepresented as screenwriters as well -- I tend to think that films would be way way more interesting (and maybe slightly broader in their rigid/generic ways of functioning) if this weren't the case, with writers and directors both.

Noodle, check here re: the amazing Viva:

Anna Biller's Viva = amaaaaaaaaazing film

http://www.artsjournal.com/dramaqueen/sleepless.jpg

my general perception is that there are more women screenwriters than directors but this isn't based on any research

how about female record producers? I'm sure I'm being thick but I can't think of any off hand

Linda Perry.

But there aren't many, its true

the same reason why there are few females in politics:
majority of men=ego+competition+power : the struggle gets tougher.

why there are few females in politics

um, what country are we talking about here. cuz globally speaking there are a lot of women in politics.

Why are their so few men who are in charge of casting?? HMMMM??

its kinda weird

in real life, women tend to be not as good at technical things as men. all those nasty cameras, working out angles, changing the film, all that fiddly stuff.

Why are there so few female technical thingists?

oh bless she tried to say something technical, and she's a girl!

thinging gives you wrinkles

Why can not women be technical thingers in this post-Botox enlightenment era?

in real life, women tend to be not as good at technical things as men. all those nasty cameras, working out angles, changing the film, all that fiddly stuff.

how do you account for the preponderance of female film editors?

plus unless you're kubrick or working with no budget you have people operating the cameras for you

joeks

my general perception is that there are more women screenwriters than directors but this isn't based on any research

There was a big deal made at last year's Oscars, when three of the nominees in the best original screenplay category were women (Tamara Jenkins, Nancy Oliver, and the winner, Diablo Cody).

There have been 27 women nominated for a screenplay Oscar since 1990, though 11 of them collaborated with men. (Two collaborated with each other.) Winners include, besides Cody, Ruth Prawer Jhabvala (Howard's End), Emma Thompson (Sense and Sensibility), Fran Walsh (co-writer of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King), Diana Ossana (co-writer of Brokeback Mountain), Callie Khouri (Thelma and Louise), Jane Campion (The Piano), and Sofia Coppola (Lost in Translation).

oscars.xls

Damn straight.

how many women nominated for best director since 1990? jane campion and sofia coppola maybe? can't think of any others.

that's it. and only one before jane campion.

Linda Richman: Okay. Now, this show is dedicated, as ever, to Barbra Joan Streisand. Yes. We love her. And, of course, the big news - "Prince of Tides". 7 Oscar nominations total, including Best Picture. But Barbra did not get a nomination for Best Director.

Liz: Long story short - I love "Prince of Tides". It was to die for! And to think a poor little mescite from Brooklyn made this masterpiece, and she's not getting any recognition for it.. [ near tears ] I'm sorry, but I get a little choked up!

I just remembered Mary Harron (sp?)

I mentioned her upthread. A male film-critic friend of mine noted when I last saw him that his favorite two films of 2009 are directed by women -- Bigelow's The Hurt Locker and Campion's forthcoming Bright Star.

Manohla Dargis gets something off her (undoubtedly magnificent) chest:

http://jezebel.com/5426065/fuck-them-times-critic-on-hollywood-women--why-romantic-comedies-suck

Do you think that a woman would have been able to get forty million dollars to make a puppet movie the way that Wes Anderson has been able to make, bringing to bear all the publicity and advertising budget of Fox? After two movies that didn't make a lot of money? I think this is true for a lot of black filmmakers too – they're held to a higher standard. And an unfair standard. You can be a male filmmaker and if you're perceived as a genius – a boy genius or a fully-formed adult genius – that you are allowed to fail in a way that a woman is not allowed to fail.

letting Nora Ephron have it should always be encouraged.

that movie cost $40million?!?

there's no thread on the hurt locker!

<3 Manohla

Do you think that a woman would have been able to get forty million dollars to make a puppet movie the way that Wes Anderson has been able to make, bringing to bear all the publicity and advertising budget of Fox? After two movies that didn't make a lot of money? ...they're held to a higher standard. And an unfair standard. You can be a male filmmaker and if you're perceived as a genius – a boy genius or a fully-formed adult genius – that you are allowed to fail in a way that a woman is not allowed to fail.

this

tried to find info on female box office records and such, but couldn't really find any. nora ephron probably a good bet i'm sure?

"So does that mean I have to go support Nora Ephron? Fuck no. That's just like, blech."

<3

"Let's acknowledge that the Oscars are bullshit and we hate them. But they are important commercially... I've learned to never underestimate the academy's bad taste. Crash as best picture? What the fuck."

<3

Manohla is a g-d swashbuckler in this article.

One, the people making them have no fucking taste, two, they're morons, three they're insulting panderers who think they're making movies for the great unwashed and that's what they want.

killing it

"People are starved for representations of themselves."

so true

One, the people making them have no fucking taste, two, they're morons, three they're insulting panderers who think they're making movies for the great unwashed and that's what they want.

pretty much otm unfortunately

I'm wondering when the young white male demographic will get a movie of our own

I can only hope to do it as much justice as Manohla does Ephron's movies.

http://www.indiewire.com/article/b.o._of_the_00s_the_top_grossing_female_helmed_films/

Awesome, TS. I was just looking for something like that.

Third place is What Women Want. It should all be so easy.

I would pay to see a movie of Manohla Dargis intelligently cursing up a storm.

letting Nora Ephron have it should always be encouraged.

― Feingold/Kaptur 2012 (Dr Morbius), Monday, December 14, 2009 9:39 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Agreed. Julie and Julia was such a nice, pleasant, charming DOG TURD of a film.

Half a dog turd. The other half was just dog food.

The Julie parts were garbage. The Julia Child parts were enjoyable but kind of empty at the same time: has idea to write cookbook -> writes cookbook -> gets it published! Yay, life is swell! The end.

A male film-critic friend of mine noted when I last saw him that his favorite two films of 2009 are directed by women -- Bigelow's The Hurt Locker and Campion's forthcoming Bright Star.

Would this be Brian, "Jaymc's film-critic friend"????

4. jaymc's "film critic friend"
Defining Characteristics: metaphorically stands in for ILXors pathological habit for using film critic quotes instead of stating their own thoughts
Most Famous Battle(s): being invoked by adamrl on the Capote thread
Humanizing Factor: is friends with jaymc, so is probably sweet like sugar pie
Secret Powers: too good to throw down in the low-down catty 300-plus-post battles
Weak Point/Guilty Pleasure/Kryptonite Analogue: ditto
Known Enemies: adamrl
― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 3 March 2006 02:00 (3 years ago)

Would this be Brian, "Jaymc's film-critic friend"????

Indeed!

I missed him.

I never see him anymore. I sort of fell out of touch with the group of friends I met him through. Plus, he had a kid a few months ago. But you know, if you're curious about his take on recent films, go nuts.

He agrees with Tomatometer 79% of the time. Figured it would be higher than that. I feel like I've had to make a conscious effort to get mine down to 75%.

And that's with the help of dozens of Disney movies.

that movie cost $40million?!?

PUPPET MOVIES ARE EXPENSIVE.

Also, FMF has only grossed $16m.

I think this is true for a lot of black filmmakers too – they're held to a higher standard. And an unfair standard. You can be a male filmmaker and if you're perceived as a genius – a boy genius or a fully-formed adult genius

this is such a fascinating area - generally the lack of artistry seen in black art at large. if you're brian wilson and you spend your days pushing buttons you're a troubled genius, if you're sly stone and you re-record all your album tracks yourself you're a power crazed whacked out saboteur.

sly is generally viewed as a troubled genius iirc

yeah I don't buy that at all, critics love female 'troubled geniuses' too - sylvia plath, cat power etc.

It's the 1p3 What Do You WISH You Looked Like Thread ; )

generally the lack of artistry seen in black art at large.

this is a fairly inexplicable charge to make

America LOVES black music FYI and not for any perceived "lack of artistry"

female trouble genius

generally the lack of artistry seen in black art at large.

this is a fairly inexplicable charge to make

i don't know if i can articulate what i'm getting at, but i think that the standard 'artistic' model, of some piece of art being the product of a refined expressive mind, is less visible. to stick to my previous example, because it's easier to be narrow, i think the comparative coverage of there's a riot goin' on and pet sounds or smile is so jarring - there are obviously too many variables and differences in style to call them analogues, but it feels like similar stories reach different conclusions and laud one guy and not the other. i'm obviously not disputing that america loves black music; or that american music is black music etc etc etc; and not suggesting that it fetishises its lack of artistry? i am trying to put words to the vague idea that genius or artist is bestowed on white authors or whatever sooner than it is elsewhere; maybe that's an inevitable high/low culture judgement.

I don't know what universe you're living in where Sly is not lauded. Greil Marcus wrote a whole chapter about Riot, he didn't write shit about Brian Wilson for ex.

and that's not some retrospective thing either, Sly was lauded as a genius from the get-go, and rightly so. Brian had to grow into it publicly. Both squandered it, obviously.

yeahhh I think your argument might feel stronger if you weren't using a super acclaimed album / ilx's top album of the 70s as an example of some ignored piece of black culture

http://yallbcn.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/gza1.jpg

Not even just Sly -- Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder were hailed as artistic geniuses around the same time.

curtis mayfield

yeahhh I think your argument might feel stronger if you weren't using a super acclaimed album / ilx's top album of the 70s as an example of some ignored piece of black culture

ha, yeah maybe so. it isn't the ignored piece of black culture thing that i'm suggesting though; more that it can still occupy a prominent position but without the same kudos for the author. man i don't even know.

charlie parker

yeahhh this list of geniuses is pretty damning - i'm not proposing some kind of segregation or conspiracy, was just thinking that maybe people weren't as quickfire with the g word overall, or that there's a higher standard for it in black music. maybe i'm wrong.

miles davis
john coltrane

duke ellington
james brown
michael jackson

(altho megalolz at a thread about sexism turning into - AGAIN - a thread about racism)

I don't think sly stone's story is as easy to romanticize as brian wilson's mostly just cause brian wilson was genuinely crazy in a weirdo childish way before and after doing drugs...whereas sly stone just seems like a genius who became a drug burnout case. there are plenty of comparable white drug burnout case geniuses that aren't given a brian wilson treatment...cause, well, they're not brian wilson.

So ... is our solution to female directors: Become black male musicians?

Yeah, actually, if anything, the innate talent of black artists has become a sort of pernicious stereotype. That is, we're told black artists have "natural rhythm," that the blues comes from deep within their souls, that Charlie Parker's dazzling improvisation is an outpouring of his tortured inner life, etc., all of which downplays the role of conventional training and hard work in their artistic success.

If only women naturally remembered which end of the camera to look into.

find the right end of the camera? mine can't even find the *kitchen*

^^^not really doing ILX any favors here guys

I can think of a few favors I'd like to ask of certain female directors. Meow!

i am trying to put words to the vague idea that genius or artist is bestowed on white authors or whatever sooner than it is elsewhere

The closest guess I can make is schlump is making a roughly parallel diagnosis to the way the sports media lauds black athletes as "natural." (and whites as gritty hustlers)

Anyway, I didn't know Timespeople could curse in real life like Dargis, cuz I had drinks w/ at least two last week and they didn't!

Way to network, Morbs!

one, there was a lot of discussion of "the hurt locker" on the kathryn bigelow thread.

two, my one and only post on this thread is :) to me right now

this thread has a classic 'first post' imo.

q: why are there so few black film directors?
a: spike lee!

I am sincerely hoping Bigelow continues to make as thorough a bitch of Cameron at the major awards as she has in the various critics' circles.

I do not miss gabbnebb I gotta say

x-post

I do not miss gabbnebb I gotta say

x-post

― Magnolia Caboose Babyfinger (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that is basically the only thing i was going to contribute to this thread---good riddance

This thread was the only time I got into it with gabbneb.

The relative lack of prominent female Hollywood directors is less distressing to me than the near complete lack of (Hollywood, at least) films not based on existing properties. It's almost all sequel/remake/adaptation, all the time. Credit both Bigelow and Cameron this: at least "Hurt Locker" and "Avatar" are proper original screenplays, albeit drawn from complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Sorry, thread derail over. I was happy to see at least a few best of the decade lists that included "Beau Travail." Curious about Claire Denis' "White Material" (adapted from Doris Lessing's "The Grass Is Singing").

My brother says Dec. 2012 is not the end of the world, but the end of when Hollywood comes up with original storylines.

I do not miss gabbnebb I gotta say

x-post

― Magnolia Caboose Babyfinger (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:42 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

What, did he die?

zing?

points awarded

why are there so few blended haircuts?

I really enjoyed Zoe Cassavettes' "Broken English", would like to see it again (preferably not on a date as I did on the first go-round, awkwardsies)

re Denis, White Material is nowhere as good as 35 Shots of Rum. Also, I don't remember reading it was adapted, and the iMsB seems to indicate an original script:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135952/

ppl should pay heed to Dargis' point about Hurt Locker -- it wasn't US-financed. (Hell, 2 projects after semi-sweeping the Oscars the COENS can't make an entirely US-produced film. They might as well be women!)

The relative lack of prominent female Hollywood directors is less distressing to me than the near complete lack of (Hollywood, at least) films not based on existing properties. It's almost all sequel/remake/adaptation, all the time. Credit both Bigelow and Cameron this: at least "Hurt Locker" and "Avatar" are proper original screenplays, albeit drawn from complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Sorry, thread derail over. I was happy to see at least a few best of the decade lists that included "Beau Travail." Curious about Claire Denis' "White Material" (adapted from Doris Lessing's "The Grass Is Singing").

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:25 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

im not sure why it matters that much if stuff is or is not "based on" existing properties. especially when both 'beau travail' and 'white material' are adaptations.

yaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn

don't get up so early then

"Beau Travail" is hardly a straight (ha) adaptation of "Billy Budd," no more than "Adaptation" was a straight adaptation of "The Orchid Thief." Or Winterbottom's "Tristam Shandy" was a straight adaptation of Sterne. And so on.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if something is adapted or not, as long as it's good. But talking with Hollywood and/or screenwriter friends these days, it sounds like if it's not adapted or based on an existing property then it has no shot getting made at all in this climate. I mean, there's always the indie route, but that creative freedom doesn't make it any easier to get a movie made, let alone to land distribution. I'm ignoring the myriad exceptions, of course, but who ever said Hollywood was consistent?

if melville is what h-wood producers would call an 'existing property' then we're in better shape than i thought

Well, I mean, currently as well as historically most of the top grossing movies as well as Best Picture noms are/were existing properties, so it can be both good and bad. A good story is a good story. What I'm talking about is an original story as potential preemptive deal-killer, which is too bad.

lets focus on removing endemic institutional sexism from the industry before we address the much bigger issue of creative bankruptcy

In some loose way they're related, I think. In that female directors might get less work because they're stereotyped as capable of making only certain types of films. Bigelow is an awesome director because not only does she make action movies and thrillers, she pretty much only makes action movies and thrillers. Who is next in line there? Mimi Leder, who went from a couple of big budget action flicks to fucking "Pay It Forward," and has been paying penance in TV ever since? But I'm sure Jane Campion or someone could make an awesome "Harry Potter" movie, at least as easily as Alfonso Cuaron did.

The Hurt Locker is not an 'action movie' in the sense her earlier ones are (tho I missed a couple like the Harrison Ford one)

Of course it's not a shoot 'em up. But there are explosions. I mean, is "Near Dark" an "action" film? "Strange Days?" No, but like Michael Mann's movies, action is inevitably one major component.

Strange Days is an action mess.

http://fadeinonline.com/articles/minority-report/

Laurel Canyon: not bad, although--the limits of my staid imagination--completely implausible in one regard (if you've seen it, you'll know what I'm referring to). Liked seeing a couple of landmarks I knew about from a book on Laurel Canyon I recently read. Haven't seen any of Lisa Cholodenko's other films.

I know I've seen that one and High Art, but I can't remember anything about them (it's been a while). Kids Are All Right has some good and some bad.

The Kids Are All Right won me over as it went along, which was a challenge after such a terrible first half hour.

Laurel Canyon: not bad, although--the limits of my staid imagination--completely implausible in one regard (if you've seen it, you'll know what I'm referring to).

ive seen it and i dont

You do, it's just that you didn't find it implausible. Myself, I don't think two of those three characters would cross that line. The "Whoa" that Frances McDormand finally throws up, I think it would have occurred to her a lot sooner than it did, no matter how casual her lifestyle or alleged bad parenting skills.

Meant to say that I loved the final shot of this.

It's her weakest movie. clem, watch High Art, still her best.

I've been meaning to--a friend put that on a 50-favourite list a few years ago.

yeah laurel canyon plays like a trial run for Kids are alright

I remember really liking High Art, but I had it recorded off telly onto the same VHS as Kissed (also directed by a woman, coincidentally), and now I get them a bit confused. Which is a little weird if you know what Kissed is about...

1400 films by female directors:

https://mubi.com/lists/films-directed-by-women

this thread is definitely the point where I started hating ILX and decided it was a waste of time to talk here (posting as Abbott)

I'm sorry :(

Didn't mean to dredge up bad memories (I'm re-reading the beginning of the thread now). The link showed up on my Facebook wall; didn't give it any thought, it just looked like a real labour of love, and the layout is great.

nbd; i just don't post much or try to ever change anyone's mind

or, maybe, ilx prepared me for dealing with petulant know-it-alls, and i do that in my day job now

always enjoyed when you would show up in threads about mormons and comics and whatnot

hahaha holy shit the opening run of this thread is obscene

GOod ol gabbneb remember when he was permabanned? Good times

Crabbits I miss u, hope you'll keep postin' if you can deal with paying the petulant know-it-alls no mind

I don't think I've ever gone to anything in the yearly Images festival here, but they'll be showing Barbara Loden's Wanda in 35mm in a couple of weeks--that I'll see.

In a brief Q&A after Wanda yesterday--for which I came that close to forgetting I'd bought a ticket two weeks ago; I do that sometimes--the festival woman pointed out that it's a little slow. "Exhausting" was the word she used, and also "durational." I will never again tag anything as being boring; "It was a little durational at times."

Definitely something that should be sought out. The print was a UCLA restoration; I first saw it on TCM a couple of years ago. Sad that Loden never got to direct another film--I think she basically made an American Jeanne Dielman four years before the fact (also, very consciously Loden once said, an answer film to Bonnie and Clyde).

The usual disclaimer--don't actually make use of this--but it's up on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22eKcUjFHiw

directorial fiasco of latest Wonder Woman film

"To translate all of that into English: Since studio development executives are now asked to be property managers rather than movie developers, not many of them are capable of sitting down and talking about what a story should be. And none of them wants to risk his neck by committing early to the wrong choice. So, like many modern-day blockbusters, Wonder Woman will be developed via the monkeys-at-typewriters approach: Let's have a bunch of different people write different Wonder Woman scripts, pick the parts that we sort of like better than the others, proceed to humiliate the 'winning' writers by asking them to interpolate the stuff from the 'losing' scripts that we also kind of liked, let the WGA work out the credits and mop up the blood and tears, sew everything together, and sell the resulting Frankenmovie to an audience we will have programmed (via an incessant drumbeat of teasers, trailers, and post-credit sequences) to show up for whatever this thing turns out to be. That certainly sounds like every writer and director's dream."

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/wonder-woman-michelle-maclaren-female-hollywood-directors/

maybe it's rampant entrenched sexism in the film industry

just sayin

― Swat Valley High (goole), Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:29 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"durational" is a horrible word

From a group called The Make It Fair Project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuHAMpg9FwQ

fair is fair

http://shitpeoplesaytowomendirectors.tumblr.com/

A list from a female film collective:

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/female-film-directors-put-together-a-list-of-must-see-movies-made-by-women

Some obvious omissions, as with any list.

'Europa, Europa' by Agnieszka Holland

The ones that jumped out for me were Ackerman's Jeanne Dielman, Amy Heckerling's Fast Times and Clueless, Barbara Kopple's Harlan County, USA, Maya Deren's Meshes of the Afternoon, and Dorothy Arzner's Dance, Girl, Dance. Anyway, it seems pretty informal, and not meant to be textbook complete.

im doubling-down on cholodenko after the olive kitteridge series fyi

if women are socialized to be looked at, maybe it's unsurprising that they don't choose/aren't chosen to do the looking

― Reggiano Jackson (gabbneb), Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:26 PM (6 years ago)

sure don't miss this guy

Holofcener is missing too, but the lack of Ackerman is cray-cray

I thought of something that isn't on the list

I thought of another thing.

I thought of Your Mom.

Aren't surprising omissions/inclusions the beginning and end of whatever interest lists like these have? If you're not interested in the lists to begin with, then of course the particulars of what's on there holds no interest. That would seem self-evident.

From the article
After the show came out, a couple listeners had the same question: So, what are some recent female-directed films we should be seeking out? To put together a list of current women-directed films, I turned to Film Fatales, a collective of women film directors who support each other and collaborate on projects. The Film Fatales asked their members in New York and LA for their recent favorite films helmed by a female director and for older films that have inspired their work.

It sounds like the target of the list was not fans of lists, but people looking for recent movies directed by women

Of course--there's always the intent, primary or secondary, explicit or implicit, that, "If you're interested in this, start here." Just responding to the surprise/derision above that people looking at such lists might then discuss what they see as omissions. And, as I posted, discussing them does not mean you view those omissions as a big deal; historical completeness was clearly not the goal here.

Curious omission
Posted by JonTheDad (not verified) on July 9, 2015 - 11:00am
I'm surprised Hurt Locker didn't make this list. Any reason why?

REPLY

Saw Dorothy Arzner's Dance, Girl, Dance sometime in the '80s--first read about it in one of those Danny Peary cult books--and it always stayed in my mind. Looking at it tonight, the first half-hour's a little clunky, but it really picks up once Lucille Ball gets her Tiger Lily engagement. Maureen O'Hara's big speech is pretty great, as is the ending, and a throwaway name-joke that came back to me immediately.

http://moviemezzanine.com/women-directed-films-home-media/

The Lightbox has an Ida Lupino series this summer, including four of the films she directed.

http://www.tiff.net/#series=ida-lupino-independent-woman

A local video store (long-standing, and one of about three left in the city) evidently started a "films for free" series recently, and they've got a long list of female-directed films as a subset of that.

http://www.baystreetvideo.com/films_for_free_list.php

Forgot to acknowledge the centenary of Ida Lupino, born 100 years ago last Sunday. I saw her film Outrage last week; despite the strictures of the Code ("rape" is not uttered, though that's what it's about), it's a solid, haunting psychological drama.

http://sensesofcinema.com/2009/great-directors/ida-lupino/

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/why-ida-lupino-was-such-a-groundbreaker-for-women-in-sci-fi

good articles

Series of silent films made by women playing this summer in Brooklyn and LA, Kino Lorber box coming in fall.

https://www.bam.org/film/2018/pioneers-first-women-filmmakers

http://americancinemathequecalendar.com/content/pioneers-first-women-filmmakers

https://www.kinolorber.com/film/pioneers-first-women-filmmakers

btw someone on Letterboxd made a list of 3806 female-directed films. I've seen 204 of them.

Barbara Loden’s son Marco Joachim shared this picture from the tour his mother did to screen her 1970 independent film WANDA. She is not only the star, but she also wrote and directed the film. Marco will share stories 8/10 at the WANDA show at Egyptian. Screens August 10-12. pic.twitter.com/QHA9guqvYr

— AmericanCinematheque (@SidGrauman) August 9, 2018

I hear there's talk of a Criterion edition of Wanda coming some time soonish.

huh - never heard of this! sounds interesting

you can bet on it, Ward, per the Janus Films copy re the NY revival.

http://metrograph.com/film/film/790/wanda

Shakey, there's a serviceable print of Wanda on YouTube, last time I looked. It's not a film where visual pleasure is paramount, but it would still be good to have a dece physical copy out there.

I'll rent the criterion when it comes out

The guy who put out a "Directed by Elaine May" T-shirt a couple of years ago has moved on to "Directed by Barbara Loden" T-shirts.

http://phildellio.tripod.com/loden.jpg

been hearing a lot about Wanda in the last month, trailer looked good. "an American Jeanne Dielman" sounds great

it's a lot shorter...

Watched Wanda around the time of the road movie poll, it's fucking great.

Btw Morbs I can't remember which thread you posted it in, but that female cinematographers season looked really good.

Also, Wanda can't stand the heat, so she gets out of the kitchen.

it was NY film snobs! series just ended at Lincoln Center

xp

Caught a screening of Wanda yesterday, preceded by two 1975 shorts which are apparently the only other films directed by Barbara Loden. The Frontier Experience was quite excellent (she also plays the lead in it).

But... The Boy Who Liked Deer, just 18 minutes long, is perhaps the saddest film I've ever seen. If this was actually shown to school kids, that's incredible.

would love to see that, has the recent Wanda restoration gotten a home video release? I saw it about a month ago, really great, a movie made by its final shot.

The Boy Who Liked Deer is on youtube, I see

Wanda is under the Janus Films umbrella, that means a CC eventually

I watched The Boy Who Liked Deer tonight. It would make a good double bill with Cipher in the Snow.

xp crossing fingers for Kanopy access

I'm in no rush to revisit Wanda, but I'd love to see those shorts on a loaded Criterion (or other label) blu-ray disc.

re Wanda, Elia Kazan and...

Mel Brooks LEGEND pic.twitter.com/IZvkI4mvzp

— Peter Labuza (@labuzamovies) January 9, 2019

btw Criterion of Wanda drops March 19

https://www.criterion.com/films/29450-wanda

Olivia Wilde's Booksmart beats you senseless for an hour--appropriate that "You Oughta Know" figures prominently (first time I've ever not hated it)--but I found the last 20 minutes or so (everything post-party) rather sweet, and I'd guardedly recommend it.

I agree it's an often fraught movie but this is a strange thread in which to post the criticism. It would work in the x movie thread.

I liked booksmart enough that I was bummed it didn’t make me laugh much. It was an 11am showing on a Sunday and the rest of the audience weren’t laughing either so the circumstances were tough. idk it was pretty much exactly this tho

these are the only jokes in like 90% of movies now pic.twitter.com/Qap6VJIK6O

— Nicole Silverberg (@nsilverberg) June 16, 2019

(xpost) I sometimes post thoughts in the last-x thread, but I usually try to find something a bit more specific...not that this is all that specific, but it's the best I could do without starting a new thread (which the film may warrant--as much as Eighth Grade, I'd say).

In retrospect, you're right to keep it here; like you, I think it's not as solid as Eighth Grade.

What I liked best: that the film ends up aligning itself with the time-honored tradition of high school movies that argue there's-more-uniting-us-than-separating-us (which, in the here and now, when you're actually in high school, is a complete fantasy; it's only credible with some time and perspective--and maybe not even then, but it's a nice thought).

One thing that leaves me at a complete loss: where the line of acceptability is for over-the-top caricature. The two gay students...If Chris Rock (or fill-in-the-blank) tried something like that, he'd be run out of town. It doesn't outrage me or anything--I basically never get outraged at the movies, just bored--I'm just curious. If there's controversy over these two characters, it hasn't reached me.

You misread that sentence; it's less polished than Eight Grade (in that it's like a bulldozer), but I think it's a more interesting film.

(I'm talking about the two guys--maybe the gay lead is seen as a fair trade-off.)

A rewatch of Wandayesterday, and that educational short by Barbara Loden about the frontier mentioned above. It's halfway into her interview w/ Dick Cavett from 1970 before the other guests chime in with questions -- Jimmy Breslin and Howard Cosell.

The loser thief Wanda hooks up with is treated with surprising depth, I think, w/out letting him off the hook or painting him as anything but damaged and cruel.

I hadn't realized Loden stayed married to Elia Kazan from '67 til her death; I thought they split up at some point.

Also, I've been to the religious theme park that Wanda and Mr Dennis visit. It's in Waterbury CT, and is essentially in ruins as it closed in 1984.

XP According to the You Must Remember This about Loden, they had agreed to divorce when she got her cancer diagnosis.

They were more or less separated for a lot of the '70s.

pauline kael was so mean to barbara loden in her review

cavett is sort of a prick to her too in that interview

sort of in the way of the era

for sure, tho unusual for Cavett

Not really, bcz he's *trying* to be 1970-woke ("It must be harder to raise money for a film when you're a woman") but then puts his foot in it anyway. Similar Cavett moment in the trailer for the recent Toni Morrison doc. He was nailed by Rick Moranis' namedropping impression on SCTV.

on the history of women editors

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/6582-hidden-histories-the-story-of-women-film-editors

S.C. centennial

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/6616-celebrating-shirley-clarke

new Lupino set

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/09/ida-lupino-box-set

A woman I grew up with on Fire Island is making quite the name for herself as a director right now and it’s so awesome. Can’t wait to see what she ends up doing. This is her latest project: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2019/09/the-rhythm-section-trailer-blake-lively-reed-morano-1202174816/amp/

That Lupino set was announced maaaaybe a day or two after I bought The Hitch-Hiker. Which was pretty annoying. But the set doesn't contain Outrage which is a bit of an outrage unto itself.

Went to see Hustlers the other night, good stuff

I recommend the pre-Code alcoholic romance Merrily We Go to Hell, directed by Dorothy Arzner (who quit directing features in the mid '40s, but later taught F Coppola at UCLA). Fredric March is a newspaperman turned playwright (a warmup lush for his Star Is Born role), Sylvia Sidney is his 'doormat' heiress wife, and when they end up in an open marriage she takes revenge with Cary Grant (one scene). Recently issued on a Universal disc.

https://www.screenslate.com/features/172

^^^ watching this afternoon on Criterion Channel (recently added).

Just watched Working Girls, which the Criterion Channel just put up as a companion to MWGtH. The screenwriters and director must have worked hard to get a happy ending for foolish sister May and wise sister June, in the big city and surrounded by men of varying morals. But they achieved it.

Related topic: Why do discussions of women in film rarely discuss female screenwriters?

well we all love rio bravo

https://www.criterion.com/films/27854-daisies

Great film! I saw Chytilová's follow-up The Fruit of Paradise but don't remember anything other than bewilderment.

My favourite film! Got to see it on the big screen a few times, the best was last year with a p raucous audience of mainly students who were v nonplussed but loved it

There's already an excellent blu-ray of this from Second Run, a label that's shown far greater commitment to East European cinema than Criterion. They also offer other Chytilová films:

https://www.secondrundvd.com/release_daisiesBD.html

Susan Seidelman memoir: https://read.macmillan.com/lp/desperately-seeking-something-9781250328212/

Criterion releasing an early Martha Coolidge film: https://www.criterion.com/films/33619-not-a-pretty-picture

That looks really interesting--amazed I've never heard of it. (Liked Valley Girl when it came out, also a rewatch years later.)