1975's Oscar Nominees

Good movies here.

"Cuckoo's" has the most things going for it and the least things wrong. So...that? Part of me wants to say Jaws but it's been ages since I watched it.

Amazingly, I have only ever seen one of these movies. Even more amazingly, the one I've seen is Barry Lyndon.

Unfortunately for the movie, I read Kesey's book first and it made the movie seem too buttoned-down in comparison. Very good on its terms, but the book was really nuts.

And it's either Lyndon or Nashville for me. Both are easily among the ten best movies ever nominated for the award.

I have also only seen Barry Lyndon, but have seen almost all of Jaws in pieces (Universal Studios ride, etc)

what is wrong with you people?

were you locked in the basement as children?

"Lyndon" and "Nashville" are perhaps great "achievements," but I'm not sure how often I ever want to watch them. "Dog Day" has great acting, but I struggled with with the last time I put it on. "Cuckoo" is quality popcorn. But "Jaws" is the most ruthlessly perfect and influential of all of those. So I go with the shark.

yeah, a lot of blind spots here. I think the first R rated movie I saw was Tales from the Crypt Presents: Bordello of Blood (when I was 17)

ridiculous overstatements about Jaws are de rigueur here. There's NOTHING 'perfect' about it.

I've come to think Lyndon just might be greater than Nashvillke.

I mean, Robert Shaw's great achievement in Jaws is you don't laugh his character off the screen.

wait, is Eric saying DDA isn't just another lousy Lumet movie?

"Jaws" is perfect the way a shark is a perfect eating machine. It's perfect at what it does. It's a great horror movie.

I mean, Robert Shaw's great achievement in Jaws is you don't laugh his character off the screen.

Nonetheless a great achievement.

I'm inclined to be generous about DDA given its company.

Barry Lyndon is my wife's favorite movie,and by far the best Kubrick for me (controversial?)
I love Altman but I'd pick 5-6 of his other 70s stuff over Nashville.

Barry Lyndon is my wife's favorite movie,and by far the best Kubrick for me (controversial?)

Maybe controversial if only for the "by far". It's a great, great movie, though.

I'm a Clockwork Orange fan myself, but then again I'm a sick piece of work.

Lyndon is the only Kubrick movie i've not yet seen. (oh and Fear and Desire his obscure debut)

Dog Day Afternoon gets my vote, awesome story, Pacino's best role, John Cazale v. good as well, shocking ending too.

i think Eyes Wide Shut might actually be my favourite Kubrick, even though it is way too long.

nashville

I voted nashville, too

yeah, this is a good lineup, though something about nashville's always rubbed me the wrong way. i voted for cuckoo's nest.

i tried to watch nashville years ago but couldnt understand a word anyone was saying. was it really noisy? was it the accents? i cant remember.

Altman loves overlapping dialogue, usually recorded with one mic. It works better in stereo than surround. Turn up the center channel.

Or with headphones. Last time I watched McCabe & Mrs. Miller I watched it wearing headphones, and caught a lot of background talk that I'd never noticed.

I'm not crazy about any of these pictures; none are great movies. Agree with Eric about Cuckoo's Nest (I played Martini in a high school production); Jaws, Nashville, Barry Lyndon are good films by great directors that I never want to rewatch.

I voted for Cuckoo's Nest.

Nashville, easy.

That's a tough line up but yeah, Nashville for me too. that movie is a trip.

I'm not crazy about any of these pictures; none are great movies.

Two are, easily.

as opposed to the great films nominated for Best Picture this decade: just Munich, I think...

I'd say three. Dog Day Afternoon doesn't quite work. I will refrain from boring you all with why I think that without your asking. And Cuckoo's Nest isn't really that good of a movie. It's a big-ass rabble-rouser, but I think it fails at conveying its real point, which is that Nurse Ratched is right. These people need their pills, some of them desperately.

as opposed to the great films nominated for Best Picture this decade: just Munich, I think...

Atonement?

Miss.

Thanx for responding to my call, Eric.

VERY easily Barry Lyndon, a great film, Kubrick's best after his co-directing job on A.I.: Artificial Intelligence, and a movie I want to see again right now.

I'm no fan of Nashville. As with so many such films (arty or not), the music is cute while you're watching but crumbles into insignificance once the film is over. Plus, right, Altman has much greater to offer this decade and after. But better Nashville than the messagey fare that usually gets the Best Picture nom.

Dog Day Afternoon is one of Lumet's better efforts. Not saying much but voila. Haven't seen Cuckoo since well before the advent of the DVD. Would probably prove diverting in 13 parts on YouTube.

And Jaws...eh, what are you going to do? Like The Sound of Music, the film itself is a mere cog in a riveting industrial history.

All in all, not a bad Oscar year. But yeah Kubrick takes it.

Kael, however, generally otm on Jaws' merits:

http://emdashes.com/2006/08/a-goldmine-of-pauline-kael-rev.php

Partly OTM, but she doesn't mention how effective Shaw is as a plot device, how great his stories about sharks are for establishing plot and mood, and much scarier he makes the movie. Really, it'd be shit without him.

Not really clear on this supposed surfeit of "greater" Altman films there are out there, and I'm a huge fan. Sure, there's McCabe & Mrs. Miller and The Long Goodbye and 3 Women, but surely no one's out there suggesting Images or Buffalo Bill or HEALTH are better, right?

I think you just ranked your Altman.

My, but that sounds dirty.

how great his stories about sharks are for establishing plot and mood

Played like sleepaway-campfire shit

But so well!

I think on most days, I hold Nashville above them all tho. (California Split is my pick for his most overrated '70s flick.)

First half of it is so super entertaining, though.

Not really clear on this supposed surfeit of "greater" Altman films there are out there, and I'm a huge fan. Sure, there's McCabe & Mrs. Miller and The Long Goodbye and 3 Women, but surely no one's out there suggesting Images or Buffalo Bill or HEALTH are better, right?

No, but the first three are all better than Nashville. And I did say "and after" which means there are MANY post-1970s Altman films I'll take over Nashville and that includes the underrated Prêt-à-Porter and the overrated Gosford Park (kinda think they're the same damn film). And [shameless auteurist alert!] A Prairie Home Companion may be his very best.

California Split is my pick for his most overrated '70s flick.

Yeah it disappointed me even though I'm a sucker for gambling flix.

Well, at least we're in agreement that Gosford Park is overrated.

McCabe & Mrs. Miller and 3 Women are somewhat overrated, and not better than Nashville.

(they do contain maybe Beatty's and Duvall's best performances)

And shameless auteurist alert! A Prairie Home Companion may be his very best

NOw that's the kind of addled contrarianism I like!

Better Altman films than Nashville

McCabe and Mrs Miller
The Long Goodbye
3 Women
Secret Honor
The Player

Ah, the benefits of not throwing in my vote right away.

I only saw Secret Honor once and thought it was one of his worst.

What are the best American films NOT nominated for Best Picture this year? how about Love and Death, The Day of the Locust, and The Man Who Would Be King? (critical consensus wd likely be Shampoo)

Grey Gardens is the only one I can think of, though I guess that didn't really roll out in full release until the next year.

Rollerball maybe.

Definitely Mandingo, one of the most underrated films of the 1970s. Also, Thundercrack!, Mahogany, Supervixens, The Image AKA The Punishment of Anne, and Abigail Lesley Is Back in Town. Oh and Grey Gardens too. Others would say Night Moves and Rancho Deluxe but I didn't get either.

Not clear on the rules but would The Passenger be eligible?

Worst: At Long Last Love

Forgot about Thundercrack!

Swap out Dog Day Afternoon for that and Cuckoo's Nest for Grey Gardens and Jaws for Supervixens and ... you'd have the gayest, greatest best picture lineup of all time.

Some would say Smile.

ok, I was not going to Fantasyland.

xp

were you locked in the basement as children?

No.

My answer would probably be Cuckoo.

Fantasyland is the only place to be when the probable 6th or 7th vote-getter in the real Oscar best picture derby was The Sunshine Boys.

VERY easily Barry Lyndon, a great film, Kubrick's best after his co-directing job on A.I.: Artificial Intelligence

yeesh.

barry lyndon, easily.

but good line up!

what won? cuckoo?

yes, it was a Cuckoo sweep. (Louise Fletcher in wrong category)

Eric: Ask me knock knock knock.

I guess most of you know Louise Fletcher & Lily Tomlin were originally sposed to play the other's Oscar-nominated role.

Went with Dog Day Afternoon without thinking about it. Having thought about it, I stand by that choice.

It's a big-ass rabble-rouser, but I think it fails at conveying its real point, which is that Nurse Ratched is right. These people need their pills, some of them desperately.

Eh? While I can sorta see coming away with this after watching, I can't for a second imagine that this was Milos Forman's "real point." (And it most certainly wasn't Kesey's, for all that Forman switches things up from Kesey's nove.) I mean, maybe if you've never seen another Forman movie, but otherwise I just don't see it.

how great his stories about sharks are for establishing plot and mood

Played like sleepaway-campfire shit

Well, duh.

Never could really get into Altman movies - they strike me as the parent of the quirky indie dreck of this decade - preciousness, overly long, meandering ...

Jaws was actually not a very tight movie, parts of it were actually kinda dull considering it was about a shark attacking people.

Dog Day Afternoon gets my vote.

appallingly, i've never seen barry lyndon, so i can't vote in this. of the other four i guess i'd take dog day over cuckoo's nest and jaws . i think nashville is shallow, mean and hugely overrated, but i've said all that on other threads.

Don't forget that the music is crappy too (but you were probably saying that anyway).

Never could really get into Altman movies - they strike me as the parent of the quirky indie dreck of this decade - preciousness, overly long, meandering ...

I can definitely buy the latter two. But how in the world could Nashville (or Three Women or The Long Goodbye or, esp., McCabe and Mrs. Miller) be accused of preciousness?

Haven't seen the ones you list in parentheses, so I could very well be wrong - but Nashville and Short Cuts definitely felt precious to me, in the sense that they seem too in love with their characters and it's a bit of quirkiness for quirkiness' sake.

man movies - they strike me as the parent of the quirky indie dreck of this decade

maybe those indie filmmakers would say so, but the mumblecore films' attitude toward their characters is way way different.

That's also like blaming Led Zeppelin for 40 years of shit metal.

(tho I don't like Led Zep either)

is there an Altman poll? i want an Altman poll.

That would be preciousness for its own sake.

I find him unpollsuitable. Like Fassbinder, his work is one big film.

and then we get to read dumb "Oh, no love for..." posts cuz no one thinks Brewster McCloud is his best movie.

NO, NO LOVE, YOU'RE NOT #1 IN YOUR FAMILY, EITHER

can't front that it isn't a strong line-up, buuuuut

don't really want to see the two standouts, barry lyndon and nashville, again. maybe on the big screen, but BL is exactly what people always accuse kubo of being, ie inert.

as a 'statement about america on the eve of the bicentennial', i'll take jaws over nashville, which i don't totally 'get'. certainly not as good as a bunch of other 70s altmans.

one flew over the cuckoo's nest hasn't dated too well... i guess dog day hasn't either but of the two acting showcases im going to take pacino over nicholson.

i'd feel wrong voting jaws, but it's kind of going that way.

unpollsuitable

word of the day!

I'll make sure that the next year I poll only features movies I don't, against all Oscar history odds, think are great. Last year, for instance.

against in accordance with Oscar history odds

as a 'statement about america on the eve of the bicentennial', i'll take jaws

you and Fidel Castro, who saw it as an anti-capitalist allegory.

1977's list is even more middlebrow:

Annie Hall
The Goodbye Girl
Julia
Star Wars
The Turning Point

Yes, tho Annie Hall is maybe the best actual winner of the whole decade.

My god, The Turning Point; it's only worth watching for this scene, a masterpiece of camp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a_wW3sNRPk

... the hell?

well, also to look at Baryshnikov.

Eric, you really need to catch up on yr '70s middlebrow.

I saw The Turning Point in the Little Carnegie theater on 57th Street -- asnd there is a shot of that theater in the film, I think the only time I've had that Sherlock Jr experience. (Also saw Annie Hall there opening weekend)

Hey, I've seen Kramer vs. Kramer, The Sting and at least two Neil Simon productions.

The Goodbye Girl is paaaaainful.

You know what's stinky? The Oscars.

So, I hate to break it to you, is Mahogany. < / Morbs >

I do wanna view Mahogany at some point, to see if Anthony Perkins' hatred of Diana Ross's lack of professionalism comes through.

(btw Eric, they're reviving The Wiz on Broadway)

Listening to "Do You Know Where You're Going To" at the market last week, I noted Diana's lack of command of grammar.

xpost ooh, i should audition!

I think I've mentioned I scream "Do You Know Where You're Going To" at NYC drivers

I'm a hueg kubrick stan and barry lyndon is his underrated masterpiece so...

have I mentioned my theory that the shining was kubrick's sadistic revenge on the moviegoing public for ignoring barry lyndon?

"Ignore my brilliant 18th-century satire?! Here's... a NONSCARY horror epic!"

So, I hate to break it to you, is Mahogany.

Well, now I know.

Then again, I always knew. Mahogany is stinky. But its stinkiness is noble, precious even. Like Empire Records, it bites off more than it can chew, so damn eager to please everyone in viewing range. But in this, it reflects the well-meaning-but-not-too-well-meaning liberal mindset of Oscar ideology more accurately than the sure-footed snoozefests that usually get the noms. In short, it's beautifully confused. Plus the clothes are fab!

So are the clothes in Nashville!

No they're not.

Right, they're not. But even if they were, they'd be nowhere near as fab as the ensembles (don't pronounce the "s") in Mahogany.

Revision: Everything about Nashville is better than anything in any other movie.

Even Gertrud?

Even Lipstick.

I think this has got to be the strongest Best Picture field ever, with Nashville at the top, Jaws second, Cuckoo's Nest third, then Dog Day, and Barry Lyndon last. And I like Barry Lyndon, even though I think Gene Hackman's famous Night Moves (also '75) joke about Rohmer might just as well have been directed at Kubrick's film. Someone asked about the best non-nominated picture that year--Frederick Wiseman's Welfare, I'd say. I just saw an excellent HBO documentary on John Cazale called I Knew It Was You; not sure who was up for supporting actor in '75 (Henry Gibson?), but they somehow managed to overlook Cazale in Dog Day.

1974 was a better Best Picture year -- if you ignore the nod to The Towering Inferno.

Tough call...For top three, yeah, '74; GFII, The Conversation, and Chinatown are unbeatable. But I don't think Lenny's all that terrific (coincidentally enough, I'm halfway through rewatching it on DVD), and Inferno seriously undermines the other four. I guess I meant that '75 is the rare year where the Best Picture field in almost inarguably five deep.

Fair enough. The Best Director nods are more interesting: Fellini replaces Spielberg (a moment captured on film as Spielberg listens to the announcement) for Amarcord, his best movie since the fifties.

I only dig The Conversation from 1974. Cassavetes/Elaine May robbed in 1974 and 1976. But when wasn't Cassavetes robbed?

Avant-garde, porn, and other art cinemas were sooo much more compelling in the 1970s than this New Hollywood silliness.

Ugh -- Cassavetes. I prefer the dramatizing of his psychodramas when playing villains.

Towering Inferno is no worse than Jaws.

Jaws didn't have a kitty and Oh Jay.

Towering Inferno = Jaws? They're not in the same stratosphere.

jennifer jones being eaten by shark would be better than robert shaw

Avant-garde, porn, and other art cinemas were sooo much more compelling in the 1970s than this New Hollywood silliness.

They were all pretty compelling on the whole, though I think the case for '70s porn has been radically overstated, personally.

I used to think that about 1970s porn until I saw more softcore and sexploitation. And Chuck Vincent. And the greatest film ever made.

nearly all porn is worse than The Towering Inferno, and even worse than A Woman Under the Influence.

Almost every Rohmer and Kubrick film is better than Night Moves. (I also think the Hackman line is sposed to show he's a philistine)

First statement = you're on a mountain of drugs

Second statement = you're in rehab

nearly all porn is worse than

Even this first conditional phrase is untrue. Morbs, have you seen some of the really dark straight porn that's out there? Gay porn has a different dynamic, I think. There's HATE in some straight porn. In a lot of it, even.

I can't think of anything theoretically worse than really dark straight porn.

Tell me about it. Not only enlimpening, but makes you want to scrub your skin off.

I also think the Hackman line is sposed to show he's a philistine.

In the context of the film, no, I don't think so; it's preceded, from what I remember, by Susan Clark saying something to the effect that her co-worker (Hackman's nemesis, the guy she's having the affair with) found the Rohmer film "yummy." It's the other guy who sounds faintly ridiculous, even more so after Hackman's dry dismissal. (Which is not my own dismissal. I've seen Rohmer films that are clearly superior to Night Moves, and others that aren't as good. Ditto Kubrick.)

I think that's obviously true. They're not having a debate about film, fer chrissakes.

I saw Night Moves for the first time only two months ago and was impressed; I'm not an Arthur Penn fan.

anyway, are ppl who call Lyndon dull judging it by wham-bam standards? There's quite a lot going on... Pirates of the Caribbean, now that's boring.

Full recovery! Much love!

i'm sorry but not enough has been made of this comment VERY easily Barry Lyndon, a great film, Kubrick's best after his co-directing job on A.I.: Artificial Intelligence
????!!!!!!!!??????

yeah Kev, "co-director" is pushing it since SK was DEAD.

Just because he wasn't breathing behind the camera doesn't mean his vision isn't stamped on the film (in a quite dominant way too). I've said this before millions of times (including somewhere on ILX I'm sure) but there are moments in that film that Spielberg could never have created and moments Kubrick could never have created. Thus I sleep VERY well at night stating that A.I.: Artificial Intelligence is the best film by BOTH directors (unless Spielberg turns into Mizoguchi in his remaining time here).

Voting Nashville. This is a good list (even with awful Ryan O'Neal stinking up Barry Lyndon and Pacino chewing scenery left and right in Dog Day.)

for realz, i want a detailed defense of AI (or if you've done it elsewhere, point me to it!). There is about ten minutes of good material in that movie (opening sequence) and the rest is shittttay. and this is speaking as a guy who loves the hell out of every Kubrick movie.

Not on this thread.

Ryan O'Neal is splendidly cast in BL.

Ryan O'Neal wasn't spendidly cast in anything.

c'mon, a dopey gullible-turned-ruthless Irish naif... PERFECT!!!

I agree 1000% with Morbs. Very much like the genius casting of Bill Pullman in Lost Highway (or maybe Robert Cummings in Saboteur).

i want a detailed defense of AI

Well, for a detailed defense, you'd have to pay me. And this is certainly not the thread for it. But very briefly, that hybrid quality is precisely what I adore about the film, the way it's a Kubrick film but not quite, ditto Spielberg. "Sui generis" gets thrown around a lot but I can't think of a Hollywood film that more deserves that description.

"Very much like the genius casting of Bill Pullman in Lost Highway"

You are a crackhead.

i mean, in theory, i agree with you -- AI is interesting in the way you're talking about it. But it is still kind of a horrible movie. Sorry, I'll stop derailing this thread. Voted Barry Lyndon. Movie gets funnier every time I see it.

with fans like you, who needs haters?

Barry Lyndon IS a comedy, tho.

It has wit. It is not a comedy.

(the book is, apparently)

"Very much like the genius casting of Bill Pullman in Lost Highway"

You are a crackhead.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I hate that movie singularly. And yet... Morbs may be on to something. It's the very blandness and the blankness of the look on his face that makes it work.

All the movies in this lineup are sort of comedies, except maybe Dog Day Afternoon.

It has wit. It is not a comedy.
so i can say that it's a funny movie? or not? help me out here.

Greil Marcus wrote 6000 pages on the greatness of the Bill Pullman casting.

There might be overlap with my 6000-word piece about the brilliance of the casting of Starship Troopers. (As yet untranscribed.)

"Greil Marcus wrote 6000 pages on the greatness of the Bill Pullman casting."

I thought it was about Spaceballs though not LH.

Dog Day isn't first and foremost a comedy, agreed, but it sure does have a lot of humour, starting with Cazale's line about Wyoming. (I have a feeling that Kael reviewed it as primarily a comedy, just as she did Rosemary's Baby--she was a fan of both.)

Dog Day Afternoon is kinda a Marx Brothers movie for the 70s.

Yeah, totally ended up voting Nashville.

This list is currently making me nauseous.

btw kenan that was KJB on Pullman, as I saw Lost Highway once and forgot it immediately.

lol, when it comes to Lost Highway, S: Robert Loggia and Robert Blake, D: Everything else.

I bet Kubrick, if he was being honest with himself, would have voted for Jaws.

a funny thing about the casting of Barry Lyndon, is that a condition of getting the film made was that Kubrick had to cast an actor who had been rated among the top 10 box office draws. O'Neal was the best choice among them (Irish, handsome, young etc.)

It ended up working out perfectly, I think.

This is the first time I've encountered five Best Picture nominees and enjoyed 'em all. Has anyone created a poll for best crop of Best Picture nominees yet? Maybe that can wait 'til later...

new 35mm print of Barry Lyndon screening next week. That would probably have confirmed it as my pick. Not sure right now though.

I bet Kubrick, if he was being honest with himself, would have voted for Jaws.

This statement is a silly one.

very

"honest with himself"

Kubey, you're such a liar!

Kubrick loved him some Spielberg.

I mean if Kubrick was jealous of how good E.T. was, I presume he loved Jaws a lot too.

It sort of presumes that you can read Kubrick's mind, or can read what it was thinking in 1975.

http://filmexperience.blogspot.com/2009/07/were-1967-1979-oscars-most-fascinating.html

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

The only thing ILX about those results is Dog Day Afternoon as first runner-up ...

Glad I put a vote toward Nashville, you bastards.

for whenever you get around to Actress, Carol Kane is really outstanding in Hester Street -- she enters at the 20-minute mark and takes over the film.

Supposedly one of the worst years for that category, but it sure beats best actor that year AFAIC...

Isabelle Adjani, The Story of Adele H.
Ann-Margret, Tommy
Louise Fletcher, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Glenda Jackson, Hedda
Carol Kane, Hester Street

Walter Matthau, The Sunshine Boys
Jack Nicholson, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Al Pacino, Dog Day Afternoon
Maximilian Schell, The Man in the Glass Booth
James Whitmore, Give 'em Hell, Harry!

Doesn't help that one of the worst performances to ever get a nomination dogs the latter.

Give'em hell, Hendy!

I would've been fine with Adjani or Kane winning.

I would've been fine with Matthau winning

(Alfred, brush up on the Eric-hates-comedy memes)

obv i'm jokin -- Matthau shd've won for A New Leaf in '71

Eric hates Neil Simon.

I think in Inside Oscar, it says almost everyone in the industry thought The Sunshine Boys would be making the best picture lineup instead of either Barry Lyndon or Nashville, which would've been an affront.

The Sunshine Boys is possibly the last good Simon play/film (I kinda liked his Hawn-Chase movie tho). Obviously it's not remarkable cinema; it made me laugh regularly.

also it taught me some Yiddish curses which i use to this day

Try them in the Greenwald thread.

I’ve griped about Simon elsewhere, but I’ve never seen The Sunshine Boys and I also like that Chevy and Golide movie, though it’s been forever since I’ve watched it.

Also, I don’t know how much of The Heartbreak Kid should be credited to Simon (his script, but not his story).

he apparently walked off Heartbreak cuz they weren't using his dialogue at all.

btw Karen Black in Day of the Locust shd've gotten '75 awards action

I said this in my first post and, nine years later, wouldn't budge a bit: for me, this is easily the best grouping ever, or at least if you use one of those mathematical formulas (there's a name for them) where it's better to have two 8.0s than a 10.0 and a 6.0. My own ratings would go something like this:

Nashville, Barry Lyndon, Jaws - 10.0
Cuckoo's Nest - 9.0
Dog Day Afternoon - 7.5 (great first half, drags a bit after that)

If you're big on Network and Rocky, I guess '76 is just as good. I'm not.

agreed that this is the best BP slate ever, would still go with Jaws, with Nashville nipping at its heels.

I'd have three 10s for '74, too, but I find Lenny kind of turgid, and while I've never seen The Towering Inferno, I'm fairly confident it wouldn't score higher than a 5.0 for me. For '76, the other year mentioned in the original post, I'd have two 10s, a 7.0 for Network at best, slightly higher or lower for Rocky (haven't seen it in ages), and I haven't seen Bound for Glory.

To think of a recent example, 1980 also boasts not one dud in the bunch.

1979 is a solid slate too. the worst movie won.

I love that there's more conversation in this thread than the active 1978 poll thread.

Ditto:

Now the inevitable, which of these should've won against ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST?

— Eric Henderson (@ephender) February 14, 2024

I miss Nashville's days of higher reputation

I made my twice-a-year visit to Twitter to vote in your '76 poll (ATPM). This, today, would be about as close as you can get to a three-way tie for me. (Not Dog Day.)

This is still a great batch of films. Maybe some recency bias, since I just finally saw it for the first time last year, but Dog Day Afternoon would now get my vote.

My ranking first to last:

Barry Lyndon
Jaws
Nashville
Dog Day Afternoon
One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest

I'd probably go

Dog Day
Jaws
Nashville
Lyndon
Cuckoo's

I've softened on Dog Day a bit, but the presence of Lyndon and Nashville means the other three are always going to be battling for, at best, third place

Tbh, I really need to rescreen Lyndon, I haven't seen that since I first dove into Kubrick's catalog in college. My strong distaste for period pieces at the time made me walk away thinking it was good, not great.

As I'm sure I've mentioned somewhere in here, I also think Cuckoo's Nest is pretty great.

This book from last year, btw, makes the case for '75 being the best five-deep best picture slate, or at least the apotheosis of New Hollywood at the Oscars, which I know a few on this thread probably regard as the same thing.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Oscar-Wars-Book-Cover-Publicity-H-2023.jpg

I haven't watched Cuckoo's Nest in many years (I played Martini, of course, in a high school production). I'm sure in the abstract I'll have problems with the film's (and the novel's) valorizing of McMurphy, the last of the '60s hellions -- in my high school production the audience roared when he attacked Nurse Ratched.

The way the text lined up, I misread it that you played Nurse Ratched

As I kid I thought the book superior to the film (by many, many lengths). Now, older and operating off my dimming memory of my last viewing, I feel maybe the movie works better for me -- Nurse Ratched isn't such a bad guy after all, etc.

I haven't read the book. Just as she is presented in the film, I don't really get the idea that Nurse Ratched isn't such a bad person. The way she plays mind games with Billy is evil.

You try to control that room

I have, believe me.

(Says the middle-school supply teacher...)

lol

The way the text lined up, I misread it that you played Nurse Ratched

― Rich E. (Eric H.),

They said I looked too soft and genteel.

I loved Nashville when I first saw it in high school partly because Altman was so new to me and all of his innovations were just incredible to see for the first time. But there's also an ugly side to his work that's grown more disappointing over the years, and it's definitely there in Nashville - it remains technically impressive but also uneven and marred by cheap cynicism.

Barry Lyndon is the opposite - I thought little of it when I first saw it, again in high school, but it's grown exponentially on me. A lot of Kubrick's done that - I probably would've called Barry Lyndon the first in a string of uneven or disappointing films by Kubrick, going all the way to his last film, but I'd call every one of those films masterpieces now with Eyes Wide Shut being the favorite. I think part of it comes from maturing and getting older - a lot of what I see in them now that feels so moving or revealing isn't something I'd relate to when I was a teenager.

And Dog Day Afternoon is great - probably my favorite Lumet film, my favorite Pacino performance...maybe even my favorite Brooklyn film. Not long after I first moved to Brooklyn, it was pretty wild to watch it in 35mm at BAM then head over to the neighborhood where they originally shot it.

I dunno, I still see an empathy in Nashville that I don't see in many other films

xp I did the same thing with Dog Day Afternoon except the cinema I saw it in was right there, a couple of blocks from where the film was shot. I can walk from my apartment to the Dog Day Afternoon "bank" in about 10 minutes. And there's also a hot dog stand around there called Dog Day Afternoon, naturally.

I think Nashville has a lot of things in it that don't work or are just ill-conceived, but then a lot of things in it do work, and it's all just so crazily ambitious that I have to respect it as some kind of masterwork.

That's about right, Josefa, re Nashville. Let me add: the film doesn't seem to understand or pretend to show an interest in the era's country music and country music culture either, which I'm sure counts as a plus for some viewers.

And then just the whole idea of having non-country culture actors who are only nominally musical performers write and sing their own material live - what an insane idea, but it mostly works.

That aspect bothered me, just because I do listen to quite a bit of country from that era, but it's interesting to process that when I watch it now. Wishful thinking but part of me would have loved to see real country stars playing themselves in the cast, with Dolly Parton replacing Barbara Jean. (Ronee Blakley is great as Barbara Jean though, so nothing against her - it just would've been mind-blowing to see Nashville as it was in that movie, but I doubt it could have ever worked.)

"I'm Easy" is a pretty great song.

it's easy like Sunday morning

Maybe because they’re attached to the movie and I can’t untertwine them, but only a few of the songs strike me as truly bad beyond the ones that are clearly supposed to be bad (“200 Years,” most obviously).

Barry Lyndon is just cold, remote, and weird to me. Maybe one day it will click for me but I'm not there yet. It represents one of the few occasions I don't jibe with Dr Moribius's tastes, given that he loved it.

I've never cared for Nashville, for some of the reasons mentioned above. I don't find it either its milieu or its politics (such as they are) very persuasive. It's like my 5th favorite Altman of the '70s.

I'd place McCabe, Thieves Like Us, 3 Women before it.

3 Women for sure yes

MASH also, despite its raging misogyny.

Hellllllll no

A line must be drawn and I draw it at preferring MASH over Nashville

Cuckoo's Nest has the best soundtrack. Apparently the final theme was played at Jack Nitzsche's funeral and left everyone in bits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L5SwisFSCE

xp I'm surprised at the reaction. The ensemble absolutely clicked, the script and editing (including sound) is fantastic, and it's funny as hell--despite, as I say, its raging misogyny. I'd watch it over Nashville any time.

(xpost) Love Nitzsche's crazy theremin music over the end credits.

I'd rather watch Prêt-à-Porter than MASH again.

Clem, I think that's a musical saw rather than a theremin (can't seem to find any online confirmation of this either way, tho).

Ah, here we go:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jun/07/musical-saw

Inneresting (since it's Jack Nitzsche)! Always just assumed a theremin.

Barry Lyndon is just cold, remote, and weird to me.

Well sure, it's a Kubrick movie

I'm surprised at the reaction

I get it. Me? I'm always surprised that some people prefer watching Roadhouse to Showgirls

Maybe needs a theory of conscious vs unconscious camp

in which camp are you

Camp Arawak

Camp is Camp and it belongs to the audience not the klutz making their Art

Is broadly my take

My favorite Altmans are McCabe & Mrs. Miller, California Split, The Long Goodbye, Gosford Park and probably M*A*S*H. Misogyny's definitely there in M*A*S*H, but at the same time it's an honest (albeit unfortunate) reflection of both the military and '60s counterculture. I can't call it one of the film's merits, but it is a sad truth about the way women were treated across the sociopolitical spectrum.

FWIW, like I did with 1970, took a look and quickly came up with ten favorites from 1975 (only two of the Best Picture nominees though that's actually not bad for the Oscars) - pretty amazing year:

Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles [Chantal Akerman]
Mirror [Andrei Tarkovsky]
Barry Lyndon [Stanley Kubrick]
Do Rah-e Hal Bara-ye Yek Mas’aleh (Two Solutions for One Problem) [Abbas Kiarostami]
Dog Day Afternoon [Sidney Lumet]
Welfare [Frederick Wiseman]
India Song [Marguerite Duras]
Manila in the Claws of Light [Lino Brocka]
The Passenger [Michelangelo Antonioni]
Night Moves [Arthur Penn]

Jeanne Dielman, 23, Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman)
The Story of Adele H (Francois Truffaut)
Fox and His Friends (Rainer Werner Fassbinder)
Love and Death (Woody Allen)
Night Moves (Arthur Penn)
Barry Lyndon (Stanley Kubrick)
The Passenger (Michelangelo Antonioni)
The Man Who Would Be King (John Huston)
Xala (Ousmane Sembene)
Jaws (Steven Spielberg)

Honorable Mentions: Shampoo (Hal Ashby), Mother Küsters' Trip to Heaven (Rainer Werner Fassbinder).

of the ones I've seen in the past few years, I'd go Lyndon > Jaws > Dog Day.

I haven't seen the Nashville or Cuckoo's since the '90s. back then I preferred the former to the latter, but I'd need to see them again to rank them against the other three.

(xposts) I'd probably put Welfare #1 for the year, partly a function of having seen my favourites from the list too many times.

in my high school production the audience roared when he attacked Nurse Ratched

i played mcmurphy last month; audiences invariably cheered billy saying he's not sorry but you could always hear a pin drop in the blackout after i strangled nurse ratched; energy rly seemed to lurch around in an uncomfortable way i enjoyed and made me reappraise a thing i loved in high school but decided in college was Too Schematic. (maybe i was just unsympathetic.) play def the worst of its three incarnations tho: strips away most of the book's hallucinatory subjectivity but without grounding it in naturalism as sturdily as the movie.

woulda voted for whichever of nashville/lyndon i'd last seen. don't rly get mash.