Slain Woman Also Accidentally Shot By Police

http://www.4029tv.com/cnn-news/19902903/detail.html

ugh

Sometimes it's just not your day.

"It's kind of like a wakeup call to all of us in the community to keep our eyes open and be caring about anybody, particularly young pregnant women who might have had a violent person in their lives.," said Judi Selle of the Peace At Home Family Shelter.

good god.

I am tempted to bookmark this thread for the next time someone talks about how friendly The South is.

Evil people are everywhere. Dan learned an important lesson today.

I think this has less to do with the friendliness of the South, and more with the prevalence of gun-happy poleece in the South.

Yes, B.L.A.M. Tell us more.

I don't know that shooting a guy who's in the process of stabbing someone is all that "gun-happy" -- just sounds like a horrible result that the stray bullet was what wound up killing her

agree

the bullet killed her "along with multiple stab wounds," according to the article, which suggests it may not have been the fatal act so much as something that sadly exacerbated what was already imminent.

I think this has less to do with the friendliness of the South, and more with the prevalence of gun-happy poleece in the South.

― Two Will Get You Three (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:08 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lmao are you retarded (rhetorical question of course u are) - wow yeah what a bunch of crazed gun-happy monsters, i don't know a lot about the application of lethal force but i'm certain that walking in on a dude stabbing his gf to death is when it is least called for~

btw can you even imagine what it would feel like to be the cop who shot that ho? like, just coming upon the crime scene and dealing with this grisly ass tragedy would be traumatic enough, but then to know that you killed this poor ass broad when you were attempting to save her? that would devastate me imo or at least bum me out a lil

xp

that ho?

Real nice.

If only that unfortunate officer would had a taser to kill her :-(

+ have

PP - I didn't imply "as opposed to everywhere else."

Canks - . . .

- . . .

This sounds like a really horrible and sad situation but ultimately just a really tragic accident. I guess I'm agreeing with Nabisco and Cankles on this one.

cankles been handing ilx's ass back to it of late

btw can you even imagine what it would feel like to be the cop who shot that ho?

can we fucking ban this guy already?

...there is an exchange of ass

as is generally known, I'm here for the ass

the mountain ass

assage

"mounting ass"

but that's like the most human thing cankles has ever posted

it's garbage & should warrant at least a lil 3-year yellowcard

btw can you even imagine what it would feel like to be the cop who shot that ho?

can we fucking ban this guy already?

― worm? lol (J0hn D.), Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:35 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

Seriously? I mean obviously his use of the term "ho" in that context is 100% serious and he hates all women but . . . Honestly, did you even read what was written?

Blam, if that was what you were trying to imply, why not just write " think this has less to do with the friendliness of the South, and more with the prevalence of gun-happy poleece in the South."

All this bringing up the geography of this tragedy into it really seems irrelevant to me.

Washington County is full of Yankees anyway.

yeah I read it. I'm not big on establishing the v. crucial context for "can you even imagine what it would feel like to be the cop who shot that ho" & really anybody who really wants to say "consider the rest of the paragraph!" is either being disingenuous or really fuckin clueless

What are you even talking about?

^^ ban this fascist already. xp not erica ;_;

i don't think cankles is saying that the dude who shot that ho probably feels like he's on top of the world.

cankles otm, i imagine that cop feels devastated enough to quit his or her job at this moment

haha we are foiled by the fact that even a positive sentiment coming from cankles will still be embedded with something awful

First Ian I was all O_O when I started to read your post and thought you wanted me banned!

Secondly, woah - it never occurred to me in a million years that that first sentence could be read that way. I thought he was objecting to the use of the term "ho". John you really thought he meant it the way Ian said? Wow.

"ho" is not in approved vocabulary codex fwiw

Blam, if that was what you were trying to imply, why not just write " think this has less to do with the friendliness of the South, and more with the prevalence of gun-happy poleece in the South."

Oh, whatever.

This is a tragedy. It was before the cops showed up, it became even worse of one when the cops showed up, and it reached its nadir once loveable old Canks eulogized "that ho."

Ugh. Let me get back to the warm, fuzzy world of litigation.

That piece of shit can say whatever he wants on the internet, it's alright with me. A metro cop accidentally shot a nanny here recently. He was aiming at gentlemen who had been bothering a lady and got a nanny in a two-for-one.

i support cankles

But elmo, what about when Santa says it?

can we ban santa already?

enbb no yr first impression is I am just objecting to the use of "ho." I know you guys have a v. awesome theory of language in which some poor woman shot by police getting called "ho" is totally not an insult, but fuck that.

impression is correct

what about "Tally ho?" Should we be banning foppish British people, too?

no, we should never ban the Clean

I don't see why not. xp

they have too many good songs--besides, they're from New Zealand so they're Kiwis, not Brits

i dunno i like to get offended just as much as the next girl but cankles is cankles is cankles

the Clean are British?

xpost oh way to fuck with my timing Que

bad training

I <3 these hos

http://www.candyfavorites.com/pi/hostess-ho-hos.jpg

john would it be inexcusably offensive to call you a twat, or would it only be verboten if you died first

dont know what the more effective trolling is here--cankles of john, or john of the rest of this thread

cankles, sower of discord:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1234/1309324269_7cffa602fb.jpg?v=0

you can call me whatever you like elmo argonaut, it's not offensive to call a dude names - misogynist language on the other hand is bullshit & it's a pity that so much of ilx is "hey whatever, it's cankles!" or whatever other dude is coming with weak sexist garbage

captain save-a-poor-woman-shot-by-police

this seems like a law of averages thing to me; for every x uses of lethal force, something is going to go wrong. i'm more amazed that the cops seem to have gotten to the scene when the stabbing was actually happening, and not like, never.

xps using the word ho on ilx = trolling j0hn? that's kinda deciding the argt there max

how do you feel about "superman dat ho" xp

i believe that is ilx's ass in that statue's hand xxxxp

because only john & kate think it could ever be a big deal, everybody else is way over it goole

we can be not-offended if we want to

^^^ ilx t-shirt pls

let me know when we get to the part of this thread when we can start posting jpgs of mountain goats

xp can't see cankles or non-cankles on that statue.

j0hn & kate

^^^joint project plz

they're there if you look hard enough xxp

"it's not offensive to call a dude names"

is this what you think, really

oh man i feel so bad, everyone's piling on j0hn plus i ruined his clean joke ;___;

j0hn & kate against "h8"

was trying to come up w/ something like that

let me know when we get to the part of this thread when we can start posting jpgs of mountain goats

you could just send the love letter directly to me and eliminate the middleman

yours is good tho

i never thought there would be a day when i would stand for cankles but hey

xp harbl - those fit the definition of cankles? Damn ... I guess I have them, too.

is this what you think, really

no but no offense elmo but you're not really warranting much of a serious response here

you could just say "stfu fag"

what a disaster for stfu!

lol

well, j0hn u got ur wish

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:47 PM Site FUCKIN 'TALLICA BRO (cankles) has been banned permanently.

calling you out on some bullshit division you made between the way men & women ought to be treated doesn't warrant a serious response? mindblowing. xpxpxp

no, no, jogn you should call me by my full username like before, it plays up the scolding nanny(goat) vibe u got going

lol

whoa wtf

this will end well

People sure do love to ban people around these parts.

does this mean gabbneb's coming back ;_;

J0hn you seem like a good guy and I understand why Ade's post upset you, but sometimes you get really up in arms about the unspoken problem of ilx's sexism which no one is willing to call out but you, which seems weird. especially in a thread where female posters don't seem to have a problem.

also if ade gets banned again i just don't know.

oh shit xposts

http://lowellfilm.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalhonaaho1.jpg

haha yes ian remember the feelings of the poor men! it's reverse sexism!!! copyright nat'l review 2009

that's not what he said at all?

how do you feel about gaybashing?

what if i called a woman a name like "fartmonger" is that okay?

I didn't even vote on that ban.

Later, skater.

it's not sexist. everybody farts.

ian everything you do is ok with me forever

cankles remains banned = i gtfo

Rolling Metal Thread 2009

while we're near the subject j0hn, i think u cd answer these

http://www.lubbockcentennial.com/images/030208/hi-d-ho_lighter_700.jpg

cankles remains banned = i gtfo

― spiritual giant Cubby Culbertson (omar little), Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:16 PM

cankles on the other hand has been coming with racist & sexist garbage forever and calling a woman "ho" and having only crazy j0hn d. go "hold the fuck up" is kinda bullshit, there's worse stuff in the world but I'd think even fartmongering ilx would be above that

xpost sorry goole I have been more or less offline for a week while we moved house, I needed a more self-righteous neighborhood

okay that was me that did that, just undid it too.

what if i called a woman a name like "fartmonger" is that okay?

ex. Rosarita is a fartmonger

http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A3270/32703/300_32703.jpg

is this the ho that broke the cankles back, so to speak?

i will remain and not gtfo

I appear to be more sensitive abt (ironic?) sexist language than most. sry if any butts were hurt.

permabans should only be for spammers and gabbneb

okay that was me that did that, just undid it too.

and here I was all ready to send you a basket of delicious fruits & stuff

permabans should only be for spammers and gabbneb

lol

i'm a fartmonger

I've got my finger on the trigger
love is in control
I've got my finger on the trigger
I ain't lettin' go

permabans should only be for spammers and gabbneb

― am0n, Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:19 PM (1 minute ago)

Ws canks using 'ho' over a pregnant woman who just got shot + telling a chick to 'quit flapping her dicksuckers' on another thread that just made me press my usually tempered ARGH button. I had like 2x students creep on me today (looking at getting suspended, way worse than ILX ban, sheesh!) AND a borracho try and fondle me on the bus, so I was just like SHIT WHY DO PEOPLE SAY THESE THINGS. (If it makes you feel better canks, students & creepy drunk got a talking-to as well, I ain't just taking my agressions out on a stranger).

And now John D. telling me I'm not even worthy of fruits. :O

xp You are getting way too apologetic for banning someone as unpleasant as cankles.

upgraded to fruits and chocolate but if my wife catches me out it's gonna be a bad scene

wait, you're calling gay people fruits? that's not right

but it's okay to call men names so whatever

Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between gabbneb vs. cankles -- they both have these hint-of-troll posting personas -- banning one and not the other really just seems to come down to what we want to tolerate, whether we find it charming, funny, ignorable, etc. I don't either of them are awful enough to be banned, but I can understand why people would want to ban them.

gabbneb was 102'd though, not banhammered, so you can't really equate their bans at all.

i've always wondered about gabbneb--i sug banned him the first time, but did my sug ban the second time count? or is it an entirely different 51 people?

before you ask, yes, i do spend my downtime daydreaming of that smug motherfucker, i just love him so much ;_;

Alex in SF it's all I know how to do. ;_;

ian we are so alike

are we done here? i'm done here

xp tehresa: I would not be "WTF?" if cankles got sugbanned, just like I wasn't shocked when gabbneb did.

Slain Woman Also Suggest-Banned By Police

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/HarpoGarza/lyle.jpg

in and out in record time today, guys

J0hn you seem like a good guy and I understand why Ade's post upset you, but sometimes you get really up in arms about the unspoken problem of ilx's sexism which no one is willing to call out but you, which seems weird. especially in a thread where female posters don't seem to have a problem.

also if ade gets banned again i just don't know.

― horseshoe, Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:13 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark

Glad to see this ended well but I was basically about to post what HS just here ^^. I am a woman and a feminist and I have never had a problem with what I read as basically OTT clowning. I mean I do understand why some people react certain ways but I think that certain ppl also just sort of look for reasons to ban certain posters. idk. Anyway, good job folks!

http://htmlgiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/internet-serious-business.jpg

I <3 u Tza.

enbb otm

i don't wanna live in a world without OTT clowning

Me neither harbl, me neither.

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/img/hofers/plaques/plaque_120117.jpg

permanently clowned by the grave

mark this as possibly the 1st time i've ever been offended by something someone posted here.

which post?

josh fenderman's

― nabisco, Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:17 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

agree

― josh fenderman (jeff), Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:17 PM (3 hours ago)

^ that one?

yes, how is this guy not instapermabanned?
(it was cankles. sb'd him b4 even scrolling down to read the brouhaha)

Apparently he's not really a racist, sexist or homophobe -- he just plays one on the internet.

^
racist

It's a bit of a lame schtick really, I can't recall ever actually being offended by him but at the same time I don't get why people are so '<3 Cankles' either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyzR8w2i7bM&feature=player_embedded

dont get me wrong they are god's most precious angels and i wish i had a pet capybara to inquisively sniff my hand

― (╬ ಠ益ಠ) (cankles), Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:33 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

<3

:-)

capybara

To be honest, any reason to look at that thread is a good one imo.

i don't care about racist sexist etc, i'm not on the internet to dole out judgments other than "wow what a douche".

i'm not on the internet to dole out judgments other than "wow what a douche".

This should be entered in the current New Yorker caption contest!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ralph24/White%20Palace/vlcsnap-407811.jpg

k i'm late to this party but let's just be clear on one thing: this is who cankles is, we're not gonna change him, if u don't like it i'd suggest shutting up and using yr mod-given right to click "sb" next to his name. why this is a surprise to anyone at this point is far beyond me.

dude has pissed me off at times too but he's a good poster and i have irl friends who are more offensive. but they're my friends and have been for years. u may object but we don't need a hard and fast rule abt shit like this; canks is one of our dudes and at some point u just gotta roll w/your dudes imo.

^^^ excellent post

cosign

not sure many of my irl friends are more offensive tho, dude wears flippant bigotry like a badge of deep & unrelenting pride

flippant bigotry is part of what makes america great and if u don't like it u can go back to britain.

bigotry makes u free

freedom to express our feelings about cankles.

:D

what a disaster for badges!

cankles is our don rickles to j0hn d's bill cosby

You know what's kind of amazing? I just reread the post that inspired all this and . . . seriously? Wow.

I can't believe that post caused such a shitstorm.

j0hn reading another cankles post
http://www.chrisgenoa.com/archives/jello%20cosby.jpg

Oh Kenneth. xp

xp ENBB: that's what some people said about that bottle opener.

cankles never posted to that bottle-opener thread iirc ;_;

I've never even read that thread.

xp LJ: imagine if he did, though!

tbh I'm not sure which way he'd have gone, probably American solidarity thinking about it for a microsecond

okay so several hours and one ban/unban later, I will explain that what I meant by this: I am tempted to bookmark this thread for the next time someone talks about how friendly The South is.

That was not in reaction to the shooting. That was in reaction to the quote in the post above mine: "It's kind of like a wakeup call to all of us in the community to keep our eyes open and be caring about anybody, particularly young pregnant women who might have had a violent person in their lives.," said Judi Selle of the Peace At Home Family Shelter. My reaction to that was, "Really? You needed a wake-up call to pay attention to someone in what appears to be a transparently bad situation?"

Can I claim to be the most effective troll on this thread since I started it?

Also this has NOTHING on the bottle opener thread.

xp Hi Dere: but imagine if cankles' flippant bigotry schtick was added to that clusterfuck!

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 years ago) Bookmark

^^^probably one of the 20 best posts in ILX history

everyone forgot about the young pregnant woman a long time ago because someone used the word "ho" on a message board xxxp

lool

she was an unmarried & knocked up? probably a ho.

sorry guyz please don't ban me for that, couldn't help myself. also: soooo bored last twenty minutes of the workday.

Can I claim to be the most effective troll on this thread since I started it?

was gonna say!

Also, Dan you got challoped by that Judi Selle quote cuz she works at a shelter and knows what's up. So she's saying "wake up, y'all" but in a nice and friendly way cuz she's Southern.

xp see I thought the Selle quote was questionable because she privileged young pregnant women, as opposed to non-pregnant people, because the unborn are of the greatest significance.

haha for some reason I'm frightened to even say this, but: I think pregnancy tends to be a particularly risky period for women in abusive relationships, for about the reasons you'd think, so it's not bad advice from someone in her position

yeah iirc homicide is a leading cause of death of pregnant women in a bunch of places

a = the

^^^Nabisco, harbl OTM. A lot of abusive partners start physical abuse when a woman becomes pregnant. Controlling access to contraception and then, later, children is also a pretty tried and true tactic that abusers use to keep women under their control.

see, we found something in life that is even less funny than cankles

I don't feel I'm getting enough acknowledgment of my calling cankles out immediately after the post. And no-one said anything. It's like I'm fucking invisible or something.

because someone used the word "ho" on a message board

yes this a full assessment of what happened

Ned, you're no fun to wind up. I on the other hand am a laugh riot when angry, so when I call people out, there is much rofl. Learn from my example and get way more indignant!

Flap your hands!!

challops and bans and flap your hands

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2006/03/21/20060321_thalidomidebaby_3.jpg

IT WAS ONLY A COUPLE OF FLIPPER BABIEEES

is that lobster boy????

it's an abomination.
Thank god for amniocentesis.

thought that was going to end up being a cankles post

Hey, I love it when little white wiener-boys get on that bro/ho tip and I'm sure all the other women I know here appreciate cankles' efforts to REPRAZENT for his demographic.

wiener-boys

!!!!!!!

it's okay for black wiener-boys to say 'bro', so there's that.

Cankles is from Vienna?

little white wiener boy accidently shot by police

I don't actually understand what anyone is talking about any more.

I don't mind the whole bro/bruv thing that much (context is all) but pathetic little geeks who casually pepper their conversations with words like 'ho' to impress other pathetic little geeks...no. Not doing it for me, sorry.

Oh hey, the best bit is, if you don't agree with a woman who's called you or one of your bros a sexist, you can always call her stupid, unattractive or lacking in humour, even if none of those things are true, because it's an impressive intellectual stance to take in a world bereft of thought. I hear that's what all the most original people are doing these days.

i don't think cankles did that at all here, fwiw.

http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/8/8-barking-movie-dog-moments-08-430-75.jpg

^^^what the fuck is that?

Eh, WTF, why is my name getting taken in vain in this thread? Sigh.

The thing is, someone like Cankles is just too damn *pathetic* to take seriously in any way. There's something so desperate about his "ooh, I'm so transgressive, me" posing. (Why on earth is this supposed to be "edgy" in any way? How on earth is one supposed to find *anything* even remotely cutting-edge in what is essentially 1950s style conservatism WRT race and gender and other aspects of difference?)

The problem is, however, that adolescent and post-adolescent males are amoung the most responsive to peer pressure. And when young men who would otherwise be perfectly reasonable posters see people like cankles, Dom, etc. "getting away with it" this kind of behaviour becomes normative. And I don't want to have to deal with an environment like that.

^^trolling for boys

whoa Kerm, crazy double-entendre

This thread has been locked by an administrator.

http://www.barrycolyer.com/images/HoHoKus.gif

I don't think cankles thinks he's "edgy" or "cutting edge", or that he speaks that way to "impress geeks".

canks is the "token" "bigot" of ilx iirc

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. -- Police are reacting to the revelation that their efforts to save 26-year-old Jill Ulmer actually contributed to her death.
Police said when officers arrived at the scene, Ulmer's ex-boyfriend, 41-year-old Ricky Anderson, was making stabbing motions over her body in her apartment.

According to a news release that the Fayetteville Police Departement released Wednesday, the department's internal investigation revealed that, after the officers broke through the front window of the apartment, they "reported observing a man matching the description Ms. Ulmer had provided on the floor behind the living room couch. The officers believed the suspect was punching Ms. Ulmer as they heard her screams and saw her arms and legs flailing above the edge of the couch."

One officer attempted to use a Taser through the window, but "the deployment was not successful," according to the release.

The officers then "realized the suspect had a knife in his hand and was repeatedly stabbing, rather than striking, Ms. Ulmer," according to the release.

At that point, both officers then drew their weaponsa nd shot at the man in an attempt to stop the assault, according to the release. A total of nine shots were fired.

But one of the gunshots hit Ulmer and all nine missed Anderson altogether, police said.

"Whenever you see someone with a knife in their hand making stabbing motions to a subject on the ground, it is a life-or-death situation. If they don't act, someone is going to die," said Cpl. Craig Stout with the Fayetteville Police Department.

Stout said a killing was in progress when two officers who got to Ulmer's apartment on Friday night. They broke a window and fired several shots to try to save Ulmer's life. Preliminary reports now indicate that one of the gunshots proved fatal, along with the several fatal stab wounds. The report also confirmed that Ulmer was pregnant.

"They were doing everything that they could, but unfortunately this happened. The stab wounds themselves would have been fatal as well as the gunshot," Stout said.

Police are conducting an investigation to determine if all procedures were followed properly. But Stout said the officers had just a moment to react and try to save a victim from losing her life.

"The split-second decisions that they had to make, under all the pressures that are going on at the scene, adrenaline and everything else -- they made the best determination that they could at the time," Stout said.

The State Medical Examiner's Office release a preliminary report indicating Ulmer's cause of death was "the 25-30 stab wounds found on her body and a gunshot wound to the head."

The report also revealed that one of the knife wounds severed a major artery in Ulmer's abdomen that wuold have cause her death within minutes, according to the report.

A forensic examination of the officers' weapons will have to be completed in order to determine which weapon fired the bullet that struck Ulmer, police said.

The names of the two officers involved are not being released until an investigation into the incident is complete. The officers have also been placed on administrative leave, which is standard procedure.

Anderson is being charged with second-degree murder. He is scheduled to be arraigned on July 27.

At that point, both officers then drew their weaponsa nd shot at the man in an attempt to stop the assault, according to the release. A total of nine shots were fired.

But one of the gunshots hit Ulmer and all nine missed Anderson altogether, police said.

okay that is really awful and pathetic

all nine missed Anderson altogether

guys come ON

I am tempted to bookmark this thread for the next time someone talks about how only trained cops should be allowed to have guns.

The problem is, however, that adolescent and post-adolescent males are amoung the most responsive to peer pressure. And when young men who would otherwise be perfectly reasonable posters see people like cankles, Dom, etc. "getting away with it" this kind of behaviour becomes normative. And I don't want to have to deal with an environment like that.

the only behaviour of cankles that has become normative is "imo" imo

From what I gather, they were shooting through a window.

If this thread is ever locked, the last post really needs to just say DICK WOLF

That's consistent with the taser through the window.

Still amazed that they managed to miss him completely but shot her in the head.

can't shoot the bad guy through a window? shoot the victim through a couch.

crut is fukkin otm imo

that is some fairly jawdropping shooting, mr anderson clearly became neo

Cankles as Sleazy Defense Lawyer
J0hn D as Attractive ADA
HI DERE as Sam Waterston
PP as Fred Thompson
Kate as Aggrieved Mother
Ian guests as Finn Tutuola

resisting the urge to c+p entire news story and liberally sprinkle it w/"that ho."

if only i were that cool. xp

?? this is really horrible but it's not hard to see how things could have gone this badly. i don't think it's some kind of keystone cops routine, even tho the cops look like idiots right now.

the story/statement is unclear but it seems as though the couch was facing away from the window the cops were shooting through. so you have the couch, and then victim (with her head up above the back of the couch) between the cops and the guy doing the stabbing.

But one of the gunshots hit Ulmer and all nine missed Anderson altogether, police said.

What were they, stormtroopers?

seriously, dude has a knife... walk up to him and shoot him

walk up to him through a broken apartment window?

yeah, I don't know that anyone without a whole lot of professional knowledge about police work can really second-guess that situation. given that they initially thought he was punching her, it also sort of sounds like they were expecting a different kind of situation, and were probably caught off-guard when they realized he had a knife

well they could shoot out the window but they'd probably miss

I mean, that's a very split-second run between "he has a knife and is killing her" > "draw / aim / fire"

great thread! A++++++++++++++++++ will read again

He was moving (stabbing motions!), she wasn't.

i'm not second-guessing their decision to take the shot, but no arrangement of bodies and couches and windows excuses missing the guy 9 times while co-killing the lady he's stabbing.

you could also shoot over both of them since that'd probably scare the shit outta the guy

she wasn't moving?

The officers believed the suspect was punching Ms. Ulmer as they heard her screams and saw her arms and legs flailing above the edge of the couch.

Ah. OK.

maybe the stabbing guy didn't know they were there? article makes it seem like they were just hiding by the window going "what do we do now?"

otoh they were close enough to think they could taser him but also far enough away to miss him 9 times, i'm confused

poor ass cops

poor ass shots

why didnt they just walk up to him and tell him to stop???? :\

or just ask him nicely

seriously, the fact that we're even asking these questions is why I wouldn't get too opinionated about what anyone should have done -- I mean, yeah, that's a crap result, something could obviously have been improved there, but it's not like we know enough about their procedures or the situation to start getting all prescriptive up in here

I'm not second-guessing the decision to shoot (I think it was the correct call), I am horrified at the circumstances that led them to miss him nine times and shoot her in the head.

@Ricky hey quit it

nb I'm just guessing here but the attempted tasing might suggest that he was pretty well aware they were around and was just, like, busy stabbing a pregnant woman to death

i guess they weren't aware he was stabbing her when they tried to taser him through the window but it seems like a pretty ineffective strategy tbh

don't tase me, ho!

oh shit

(I'm still kind of incapacitated by Kerm)

otoh they were close enough to think they could taser him but also far enough away to miss him 9 times, i'm confused

neither tasers nor handguns are absolutely accurate. stress, moving targets, no time to aim, unsteady shooting position, and we don't know how far away they were; out past several yards these would be highly risky shots, especially with a dying woman tied up with the guy they were trying to shoot. maybe they were too far away for the taser in the first place but still did what they were supposed to. i think what happened is terribly unlucky but not out of the ordinary tbf

xps

handguns are tricky, iirx

apparently the shot ricocheted... still think one of 'em needs to be trying to enter the apartment by force once they saw what is happening.

no yeah i know, i was just trying to make a picture in my head

xxxp

Just as a general point of order, I really really really hope goole is wrong about cops accidentally killing the people they are attempting to save being something that is an ordinary occurrence.

am0n haven't you learned anything from the events of the last couple days? http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c287/expatrica/shakehead.gif

no, but i think cops bullets not going exactly where they would like, is

I wouldn't argue with that.

still think one of 'em needs to be trying to enter the apartment by force once they saw what is happening.

possibly was in the process of happening? although tbh I tried to imagine this and given the luck of this situation my first thought was an officer bashing down the door and running into the room right as the others fired

i'd say that in urban america bullets almost never go where they're supposed to, regardless of who's firing them

kennedy was shot by a cop trying to stop a robbery 3 blks away

could be that this apartment was on the 2nd floor and the cops had to form a human pyramid, which are notoriously unstable

considering their guns didn't fire bullets but little scrolls of paper that read "BANG" i'm surprised this is how it ended.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2979168256_6d68778933.jpg

Guys, aside from when they have to qualify on their service weapon at the range, most (non-urban) cops never even pull their guns let alone fire them at a human target, so it's not like they get lots of practice. Heck, in the last two months I've probably heard nearly 1,000 cases in grand jury proceedings and in not a single one has a police officer discharged his weapon. And this is in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County.

that's why after something like this happens they're supposed to fix it and get their stories straight.

Listen to me you deaf fuck, I gave you a chance to be a cop, back when we could have done something...I gave you a chance to be a cop, and YOU BLEW IT!

(I'm not really following this thread, so this is off topic now but possibly of interest to nabisco and harbl per our earlier exchange - http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/140887?page=entire)