"Nike" pronunciation poll

Seriously, why is there more than one way to say this?

There's isn't.

Nikkei

Oh believe me, coming from a former shoe store employee. People are v stupid sometimes.

gnocchi

Nick E.

nookie

There is only one way to say this...

http://www.theoi.com/image/T24.5Nike.jpg

just call me mike.

I don't think people are stupid just because they pronounce words wrong. No-one told me Goethe was not pronouced Go-eth for instance - I had to find out the hard way.

World HQ of this place is based like 15 miles west of me.

I'm not proud.

it's pronounced as "mikey" everywhere over here in chicago, but when I visit family in mexico it's always as "mike", which I tend to prefer.

Would generally rhyme it with Mike, I think. "Oh but it's a Greek word so that's wrong" - yeah I know, except while the Greek is two syllables it isn't pronounced to rhyme with "Mikey" either, is it? And I don't fancy going into a sportswear shop and asking after their Nick Ehhh range.

(PS actually I've no idea how it's pronounced in modern Greek, as their vowels are kind of weird iirc, but I'd be surprised if it was either option on the poll)

What if you wear Adidas?

pronounce it to rhyme with mike.

"authentic" greek pron would be more liek neek-eh than nikey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJgPA9nGtTA

No-one told me Goethe was not pronouced Go-eth for instance - I had to find out the hard way.

Luckily, there is a Goethe street in Chicago, so I learned the proper pronunciation from the 36 bus.

Oh, this is nuts. I've only ever heard "nikey". Is this a regional thing??

wait is goethe pron'd tht way? thought it ws goat-ih

mike btw

gross-eh-ray btw also

its pronounced like 'mike' in a lot of rap tracks

brit-ish while we're at it

i've always said ny-key though D:

Only time I've heard Nike like Mike is in "Drink Nike" by Future of the Left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1iY5a1D3zs

wait is goethe pron'd tht way? thought it ws goat-ih

The recorded bus announcement says, "GERT-eh."

johann wolfgang von gert-eh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGcFyajKB4M

i only started hearing 'nikey' after nike airs dropped and figured it was some kind of messed-upcontraction. but no.

JW von Gertcha

No-one told me Goethe was not pronouced Go-eth for instance - I had to find out the hard way.

I pronounce this "gur-ta"

xp

Time for the Building Site joke, I think:

Foreman: "What is the difference between 'girder' and 'joist'?"

Irishman: "Sure, everyone knows that. Goethe wrote 'Faust' and Joyce wrote 'Ulysses'."

i pronounce it gooeh teh

Nyuh-kyuh

N O E, No e.

I pronounce "Goethe" like this: ˈgøːtə

That's how I spell it

Grrr-trrr
Hey-girl

notice that only british people pronounce it "mike"

They do?

everyone i know pronounces it and i am scotch.

pronounces it mike even.

Goethe

that's how i pronounce it! Win!

There's no other way. I feel for Ned Trifle who had to learn a wrong pronunciation "the hard way"!

brit-ish while we're at it

― •F•U•I•U•D• (cozwn), Thursday, July 9, 2009 2:34 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Pronounced as "mike" in China, or at least in Shanghai it is.

I found out Canadians pronounce it Maaa-zda when it's pronounced Mah-zda in the US. What about other places?

My experiences from US TV advertising is that Hyundai is pronounced 'Hondy' (or 'Hundy'?) in the US as opposed to Hi-oon-dye everwhere else. Correct?

Hun-dye is the only way I can think of it.

I was always told it rhymes with Sunday.

In Glengarry Glen Ross Alec Baldwin pronounces it like Sunday.

There's no other way. I feel for Ned Trifle who had to learn a wrong pronunciation "the hard way"!

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 9 July 2009 14:25 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

You mis-understand me - unsurprisingly given my terrible essex/midlands accent - I said that no-one told me it WASN'T pronounced Go-eth (which is how I pronounced it to a girl I was trying to impress - HA!). She informed me it was gert-er (or something like that) - which is how I have pronounced it ever since. Except that I can't think of any other time his name has come up in conversation...

Anyway - the look she gave me for my pathetic attempt at a chat-up line was "the hard way".

She blew me later though so no harm done.

JOEK!

Rhymes with Mike. I don't care how it's supposed to sound, "Nyk-ee" sounds ridiculous.

Portia - Pawsh

"Nyk-ee" sounds ridiculous.

― Matt DC, Thursday, July 9, 2009 11:43 AM

tell that to nas

single syllable Nike sounds ridiculous. people only ever called it that when they were really young and didn't know any better, in my experience.

lol britishers infantilized

Nas says a lot of things that sound ridiculous in a British accent.

You mis-understand me - unsurprisingly given my terrible essex/midlands accent - I said that no-one told me it WASN'T pronounced Go-eth (which is how I pronounced it to a girl I was trying to impress - HA!). She informed me it was gert-er (or something like that) - which is how I have pronounced it ever since. Except that I can't think of any other time his name has come up in conversation...

http://www.poplife.info/Bilder/605176.jpg

WHAT is with the rhymes w/mike ppl? It's from the Greek goddess of victory, whose name is pronounced 'neekay'. ;)

I know someone who insists on always referring to Van Gogh as 'fancock'.

huh i thought this was going to be a thread full of people saying "mike? are you insane?" but i guess today is a day for learning about the great pantheon of brand pronounciations

http://invest.nike.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=100529&p=irol-faq

1. Where did the words "Nike" and "Swoosh" come from?
Nike, pronounced NI-KEY, is the winged goddess of victory according to Greek mythology. She sat at the side of Zeus, the ruler of the Olympic pantheon, in Olympus. A mystical presence, symbolizing victorious encounters, Nike presided over history's earliest battlefields. A Greek would say, "When we go to battle and win, we say it is Nike." Synonymous with honored conquest, Nike is the twentieth century footwear that lifts the world's greatest athletes to new levels of mastery and achievement. The Nike 'Swoosh' embodies the spirit of the winged goddess who inspired the most courageous and chivalrous warriors at the dawn of civilization. The SWOOSH logo is a graphic design created by Caroline Davidson in 1971. It represents the wing of the Greek Goddess Nike. Caroline Davidson was a student at Portland State University interested in advertising. She met Phil Knight while he was teaching accounting classes and she started doing some freelance work for his company. Phil Knight asked Caroline to design a logo that could be placed on the side of a shoe. She handed him the SWOOSH, he handed her $35.00. In spring of 1972, the first shoe with the Nike SWOOSH was introduced..........the rest is history! Doing a class project or just want to know more about Nike? Additional company information is available on our web site at nikebiz.com.

Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY Nike, pronounced NI-KEY

Addy-dass - A-dee-duss?

Yeah, that's why I thought this thread was pretty weird to begin with. Nike pronounces it NI-KEY, so everybody saying otherwise is RONG.

I find the heteronormativity of the original question problematic.

How are you pronouncing heteronormativity?

I refuse to be lectured by Americans for pronouncing things incorrectly.

Phil Knight asked Caroline to design a logo that could be placed on the side of a shoe. She handed him the SWOOSH, he handed her $35.00.

And thus, Caroline became the very first person that Phil Knight completely fucked over with Nike.

Heteronormativity is such an etymological monstrosity, it should be put out of my misery.

I refuse to be lectured by Americans for pronouncing things incorrectly.

Even if the American company which created the product line pronounces it...oh fuck it, who cares.

(That anyone would rhyme "Nike" with "Mike" still sounds totally batshit to me, tho)

you should hear how we say 'lieutenant'

That anyone would rhyme "Nike" with "Mike" still sounds totally batshit to me, tho

ehhhh what was that campaign slogan again? "we like ikey"?

Me likey Nikey. I would be suprised if, in conversation, someone pronunced "Nike" to rhyme with "Mike".

Nike didn't even exist until the 70s. xp

Americans do seem to get worked up about variations in pronounciation. part of that whole inability to understand that other cultural contexts exist thing. you'd be surprised how much you can irritate folks over here by pronouncing the T in Fillet O' Fish. i have to keep thinking of spurious reasons to bring it up in conversation.

What part of the earth is the "t" not silent?

Er well also because "fillet" with the T pronounced means something else. Correction: according to Wikiped, it means at least TWO something elses.

What part of the earth is the "t" not silent?

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, July 9, 2009 12:32 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark

In the UK! They would say chicken fillets and pronounce the "t"!!

yep

Oh britishes!

the spelling was for emphasis btw

i think if we keep this thread going for a couple more hours we are close to a real breakthrough

If only the company would pronounce the word for us sometime, perhaps in a short segment on television that would double as a marketing tool.

lol

What part of the earth is the "t" not silent?

The Fishmonger's Daughter Joke just wouldn't work if the T was silent

If only the company would pronounce the word for us sometime, perhaps in a short segment on television that would double as a marketing tool.
Think this is part of the reason British people pronounce it like Mike - they never actually pronounce the word in their adverts here! The word Nike just comes up on the screen at the end.

But we don't pronounce it like Mike

So it's a regional difference even inside the UK?

pron. mike sbiud

it's not a regional thing in the uk.

So it's a regional difference even inside the UK?

No, just some people pronounce it like Mike and some don't, as I said, I'd be suprised if someone pronounced it like Mike!

The word Nike just comes up on the screen at the end.

I think this is true for a good many Nike commercials here, too, but there have been hundreds aired in the past 20+ years, and I'm sure there were commercials where, I dunno, Mars Blackmon used the word.

gotcha.

When I finally make it over there for a visit someday, I fully expect to spend at least part of every day sorting out alien (to me) pronunciations.

This from the nation that pronounces buoy as boooooooooooey

I'd say 90% of people in Britain pronounce it like Mike, 10% like Mikey, and Tom D is repeatedly surprised in conversations.

There's only one L in Filet-o-Fish though. It's not 'fillet' like the Britishes say it, it's 'filet' like the French say it.

That anyone would rhyme "Nike" with "Mike" still sounds totally batshit to me, tho

ehhhh what was that campaign slogan again? "we like ikey"?

― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson)

That was Gatorade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ZGgbTdAv4&feature=related

"Shut up, I'm doing a Nike commercial here."

Unlikely that Gatorade have ever ran an ad campaign in the UK!

Americans do seem to get worked up about variations in pronounciation. part of that whole inability to understand that other cultural contexts exist thing.

Except this is the name of an American corporation, and it's pronounced a certain way in every commercial ever.

I'd say 90% of people in Britain pronounce it like Mike, 10% like Mikey, and Tom D is repeatedly surprised in conversations.

Surpised, infuriated, dejected...

not our fault you take your orders from the advertisers and the corporations, maaan.

xpost

do people generally sound out "-ght" endings? i know a lot of people who, for example, pronounce "light" as "lig-hut"

this thread needs some cankles to put british people in their place

Both Americans and British people pronounce the name of the French capital city in a totally different way to the French themselves. Intention doesn't mean shit.

You do not. xxxp

Willie D said "Read these Nikes" (like Mikey) so I think Willie D is the last word.

But let's not get into the subject of the pronunciation of the name of the Russian capital city (xxp)

brand names are different from cities or countries.

Ma's Cow?

A-dee-dass

Adi-dass

ye olde nike

Don't try to stop me, I Moscow

"Nikey" is lame you lamers

"i'll have the chicken fillet"
"fill it with what?"

at least we can all agree on "Gattorard"

She was only the fishmonger's daughter, but she lay on the slab and said filet

http://www.panehpraise.com/conference/img/eurotard.gif

If we're talking shoes, Chicago has it right on the canonical pronunciation. Ask anyone in Chicago, the other pronunciation screams "doesn't get it". Non-Americans such as Brits can be excused from this, however.

dudes once Willie Do of the Geto Boys pronounces something...that shit STAYS pronounced.

Speakers of most languages mangle and deform most import words, it just so happens that English has been full of foreign words for ages. I have to think through and ask the meanings of loads of 'English' words in French since they come to mean such different things from what they do in English. Incidentally, the French, Spanish and Italians, amongst opthers, I imagine, have doemsticized the names of some English places they've known for a long time, such as London and Dover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcOzQ-SKlH0

raekwon says it like 'mike' in guillotine (swordz)

http://base58.com/ilx/nuke.jpg

ced gee says it nikey

http://base58.com/ilx/nuke.jpg

Is this an attempt to rebrand Newcastle Brown Ale?

nuke-yoo-lar

I always said Nike like "Mike" as a kid, until eventually they had a commercial where someone said the word, and I deferred to their chosen pronunciation. So I think it's possible I was taught to say this name by Spike Lee.

re: filet/fillet I have to admit that, umm, much as I appreciate the British habit of willfully mispronouncing foreign terms, few things sound less appealing to me than when I get to hear a British chef or food critic going on about the sophistication or deliciousness of a fine "fill-it steak." It'd be easier if any of them were punk enough to say the fill-it was part of a "gourm-it meal," though.

Fillet isn't a foreign term, Filet is

Keep in mind I am posting from just after the Norman Invasion

I think 14th century is long enough for it to be accepted as one of our own!

spikey lee

hoping cankles pronounces it mike and justifies all the sbs I've doled out today

It's just funny to see people mispronounce a loan-word not from ignorance but from willfulness. That said a single, Italian-inspired, grilled sandwich is becoming a 'panini' in much of America.

What loan-word?

Fillet ain't a Celtic, Saxon or Scandanavian word.

Oh come, what percentage of the English language isn't Celtic, Saxon or Scandanavian?

It's been an English word since the middle ages, it's hardly a loan-word

xpost About half.

Oh, I agree and you can pronounce it as you will, of course, but there's always a certain perverse pride the British seem to take in pronouncing French badly.

But it's not French anymore is it? It stopped being a French loan word centuries ago.

There must be thousands of Middle English words that are derived from French that we don't pronounce the way French do

the website of the ethically sound sportswear maker Nike is definitely the go-to place for checking on the pronunciation of the name of a Greek Goddess; pretty sure the "mike" guys are all gonna get hunted down for damaging Nike's brand on the internet

Congratulations to US ILX for getting into an animated debate about something other than unhealthy food!!!

the french developed the "fill-ay" shit over time as an affectation.

also, let's stay consistent with our bullshit here, if you are gonna pronounce the french way, you need to sound the T in filet o' fish because of the following vowel. whichever way you spin it, filay o fish is str8 wack.

the french Americans developed the "fill-ay" shit over time as an affectation.

Congratulations to US ILX for getting into an animated debate about something other than unhealthy food!!!

for a while

Dionne War-wick. lol.

This all reminds me of Churchill's insistence on pronouncing foreign words just as the were 'spelled' in English. Nahzzy instead of Notsee, etc...

There's a couple of layers, too, Tom:

Anglo-Norman, stemming from Norman French had a different vocabulary and pronunciation than Francilien/Parisian;

There have been varying times when even the English succumbed, more or less, to waves of francophilia and borrowed French words, e.g., during the Revolutionary period (until it became less popular during the Napoleonic wars) and during the Belle Epoque.

Tbh, I think that there is so much friction between you on such shared words because you're approaches to pronunciation are different; Romance languages and none more than French tend to be more precise with their vowels (though, of course, they have shifted over time) and soften or elide their consonants (Chez used to be something closer to casa) whereas the mish-mash of what we call English is better at its consonants but elides many, many vowels into schwa, hence you want to pronounce that final 't' (otherwise what the fuck is doing there, right?) but you'll say 'fillut' instead of an 'e' sound at the end.

there's always a certain perverse pride the British seem to take in pronouncing French badly.

This may be the side of the Atlantic that might say "garridge", but it's also the side that doesn't usually say "vayse", while you're generalising.

And if "Nike" is a loan word and we should all respect its pronunciation, then the vowel from "night" is right out, and you guys can get practising yr undiphthongised "ehh".

also, let's stay consistent with our bullshit here, if you are gonna pronounce the french way, you need to sound the T in filet o' fish because of the following vowel.

Fellate-a-Fish? That sounds appealing.

Well yes to all that, but I don't see the pronunciation of fillet being any different than the pronunciation of "carpet" or "mullet", except that Americans seem to pronounce it fill-ay

... which seems like more of an affectation!

More than just a loan-word, Nike's the proper name of a deity. We're actually all wrong, here, with a few exceptions. It should be Neekay.

let's not go around claiming absolute knowledge of the pronounciation of ancient languages, eh?

Ha ha, Roberto! "I knew Hertodus and you, sir, are no Herotodus!"

http://chick-fil-a.com/

lord -- all I meant about "willful mispronunciation" was, yes, the kind of old-British thing Michael means with Churchill, or the way older British academics pronounce Don Juan (Don Jew-an) and Don Quixote (Don Quick-sote) ... just that general habit of pronouncing things the way you'd pronounce them and not trying to match pronunciation at the source

it was mostly a passing joke

xpost - well this is getting silly now, pronouncing "filet" with a Frenchish ending isn't any more an "affectation" than pronouncing "cafe" the way most of us do. (or wait: I guess I have heard British people say "caff," but I assumed that was a shortening, not an actual pronunciation, right?)

Well yes to all that, but I don't see the pronunciation of fillet being any different than the pronunciation of "carpet" or "mullet", except that Americans seem to pronounce it fill-ay

YES EXCEPT IT ONLY HAS ONE L, OKAY? The two-L version IS pronounced "fill-it" on both continents.

i was thrown off by scritti polittis jacques derrida

I thought "cafe" had an accented e and therefore was SUPPOSED to be 2 syllables.

In most cases, it's less 'affectation' then just whatever the consenus is. 'Filay' may be slightly affected in American, compared to English, but that's conceivably because the British don't particularly care how the French say it, whereas when 'filay' became dominant in American, it was undoubtedly because someone had been to France and wished to correct the 'wrong' pronunciation of his or her fellow citizens (and high hat a little, no doubt). Interestingly, we Americans call your savory spread 'Marmitay'.

YES EXCEPT IT ONLY HAS ONE L, OKAY? The two-L version IS pronounced "fill-it" on both continents.

So we're not actually arguing about anything here then? LOL. I don't know any British person who would pronounce filet as "fill-it"

I thought you all meant "fillet" was pronounce "fill-ay" in the US!

omg

Filet and fillet are both from the French word originally denoting a diminutive of string.

What a waste of everyone's time!

wasté

Re "cafe", I think my Gran's generation or the one before would actually say "kaif" but I think of "caff" as a shortening, yes.

Thanks Michael for replying to my post that said "both options are wrong" with a revelatory "We're all actually wrong" - we know both are wrong, that is why it is tiresome being lectured about how it's Greek by people who are not pronouncing it like Greek

(of course Spiralli is right but current best guess is that British/USian "ay" is way too diphthongised, try the vowel from "air" with no "r", which is what I meant with the "ehh" thing)

What a waste of everyone's time!

how do you pronounce 'leitmotif'?

filet

1841, reborrowing from Fr. of the same word that had been taken 14c. and Anglicized as fillet (q.v.). Filet mignon first recorded in Eng. 1906 in writings of O. Henry.

(from Dictionary.com)

also, nabisco sonning himself a little with Don Juan example.

in britain its spelled nabiscou

it's spelled nabiscou, but it's pronounced [nabisco] [.]

From the 17th century Romanian nobleman

Good bit of Brit mispronunciation: old folk calling Nestlé "Nestles".

Sweet

a passing spacecadet, the acute accented 'e' in café is a tiny bit longer than that, though in Italian it is really the 'eh' sound on the end.

Sorry, I meant the Greek eta, not French é. I don't think we need current best guesses for that. Well, I do because I have a tin ear for vowels, but I gather there are some native speakers still around...

Filet of fish. Filet mignon. I don't know how to do accents and diacriticals etc on here so bear with me. The item of food that is a thin slab of meat is pronounced "fill-ay" in US-ese.

That was for Tom D really. Now are we talking about the same thing?

Ah, now I see, Filet of Mignon is the same... BUT it actually is Fillet of Fish, as opposed to Filet of Fish in the UK

God, I so want to go to a shoe store in the US AND the UK and ask to try a pair of neekehs. I bet the responses would be roughly similar.

omg I should have explained this better. we say "filet" in a Frenchy way about food. because it is food and we are traditionally a rube country and will happily defer to fancy-sounding French people about such things. this is handy because we never confuse references to perfume with someone saying "oh, the toilet."

and "filet" as in food is about the only way anyone ever says it regularly; part of why "fillet steak" sounds unappetizing to me is that those US uses of "fillet" (as in "strip") that do occur happen in sort of a mechanical tool-and-die context

the website of the ethically sound sportswear maker Nike is definitely the go-to place for checking on the pronunciation of the name of a Greek Goddess; pretty sure the "mike" guys are all gonna get hunted down for damaging Nike's brand on the internet

Congratulations to US ILX for getting into an animated debate about something other than unhealthy food!!!

― racially dubious goals panel (MPx4A), Thursday, July 9, 2009 1:50 PM

your gaie

basically talking about the difference between

(a) this French food term called a "filet"
(b) this word "fillet" that just means a strip of something

Nailed it

lol Americans moaning about Brits mispronouncing French words how do you say these btw:

nougat
clique
vase

Although any casual gooogle of "fillet" will turn up about 85% fishy results, so there must be a lot of confusion on this subject in places other than ILX.

'fillet' is a word int he English language which you can use instead of the french 'filet'. you should try it some time.

Doesn't sound all fancy and French though, like

Hang on, I do pronounce "fillet" like "fill-LAY". I don't pronounce any single word "fillit". The Oxford American Dictionary backs up my pronunciation as acceptable.

I couldn't understand why ppl in UK would say chicked fillets. In the US I've never heard anything other than fi-lay to describe food be it mignon, chicken, pork etc.

If I heard an American say "fillet" to describe any sort of meat it would sound really really weird.

fillet |fɪˈleɪ| |ˈfɪleɪ| |ˈfɪl1t| |ˈfɪlɪt|
noun
1 |fiˈlā; ˈfilā| (also filet) a fleshy boneless piece of meat from near the loins or the ribs of an animal : a chicken breast fillet | roast fillet of lamb.
• (also fillet steak) a beef steak cut from the lower part of a sirloin.
• a boned side of a fish.
2 |ˈfilit| a band or ribbon worn around the head, esp. for binding the hair.
• Architecture a narrow flat band separating two moldings.
• Architecture a small band between the flutes of a column.
• a plain or decorated line impressed on the cover of a book.
• a roller used to impress such a line.
3 |ˈfilit| a concave strip of material roughly triangular in cross section that rounds off an interior angle between two surfaces : a splayed mortar fillet at the junction of the roof with the chimney stack | [as adj. ] a fillet weld.

Seriously no one in America would know what you were talking about if you pronounced the T, no matter how many L's are in the spelling. It would be like when I was in line behind some morons in a fast food restaurant who asked for a "qwesadila".

If I'm talking hair bands or architecture, I guess I'll say "fillit".

xposts kthx

x-post - Or when I has someone as me for a bottle of "merlot" with a hard "t" when I was waitressing.

Yeah, what Sundar said re the engineering/architecture uses and the hair or headband. The former is so specialized that it's really an example of jargon, and the second is so rare as to probably be lost to any kind of normal usage.

cop me some fillets

http://theshoegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fila5.jpg

omg people

If you went into the average high street fishmonger in the UK and asked for a fill-ay of fish they'd assume you were taking the piss, so bear that in mind when visiting the UK

^^ True. It's very confusing.

I get the feeling British people on this thread have felt offended but not been entirely clear on why

I'm glad we had this talk before my trip to the UK!

wait so fill-ay means i'm taking a piss in the street what a country

I think it's the idea that the British are more likely to wilfully mispronounce French words than Americans, out of some kind of xenophobia

I am quite happy for steak-related "filet" to be pronounced as French so as not to remind anyone of any mechanical meat processing that might be implied by "fillet", but does the French pronunciation also apply to fish not bought at a McDonald's? Because yes, that would result in strange looks in the UK.

(PS sorry for snippiness but ILX moves too fast for me to type and also I have just been talking to my mother, which causes immense irritation at anyone trying to tell me things)

French pronunciation also apply to fish not bought at a McDonald's? Because yes, that would result in strange looks in the UK.

Yes. Basically we say it fil-ay for all things involving that sort of cut of meat.

In the UK:

filet = posh food
fillet = slop for proles

Right. OK - this one is solved then right guys?

I think it's the idea that the British are more likely to wilfully mispronounce French words than Americans, out of some kind of xenophobia

I don't think anyone said anything about "xenophobia," but I'm tempted to throw in "paranoia" and "learn to take a compliment" -- I said I liked the way the British will pronounce some loan words in an English way, rather than trying to match the source!

I think it's the idea that the British are more likely to wilfully mispronounce French words than Americans, out of some kind of xenophobia

I actually thought the truth of that statement was common knowledge. Witness author of the Mossflower books, Brian Jacques, which I've been told by a publishing person he pronounces "jakes".

I think it has been mentioned on this board that "Alain de Botton" pronounces his name "Alan da Button"

That was a long time ago so I could have been mistaken, and also she could have been wrong, but anyway, the point is, I thought the British loved to un-Frenchify French with some malice aforethought.

Jacques, which I've been told by a publishing person he pronounces "jakes".

I imagine that's because his family have been in Britain since the Hugenots or even the Normans!

I mean, just own it, you're not all into matching other people's pronunciation

We do it to, only to Spaniards and Indians instead of the French

The idea that it might annoy the French has to be taken into account, I suppose

Though, of course, Francophobia is an English trait rather than British one

Anyway, while Johnny F is generally right about "Mazda/Mahzda" (and "pasta/pahsta", "drama/drahma", etc - though the "ah" is heard often enough in Canada), it's also worth noting that the US "ah" sound, at least in the Midwest and upstate NY, is not always that far from my short "a" sound. So the pronunciations might almost meet!

The French do the same to English words anyway. E.g. camping

And as I said above Americans mispronounce French words that British people don't mispronounce!

Everyone does it!

please explain UK pronunciation of 'croissant' being significantly more French-friendly than US's? Is there amnesty for pastries?

See that's another one :P

(I say "fill-LAY", "vahz", and "cleek". I do tend to say "herb" rather than "erb" though.)

Wait, what are the different pronunciations of "croissant"?

xposts

sb for pahsta

And what about those damned Uruguayans with their FC Rrrrraseeeeeeeeng Cloob de Montevideo

mike btw

My excuse for Americans not knowing French is that we don't know any French people and none of them live anywhere near us, either. Whereas, conversely, I thought the British excuse for "not knowing" French was that they live entirely TOO near. The percentage of Americans who have ever even heard the French pronunciation of "croissant" is probably extremely small, and even though I know I don't say it right, I CAN'T say it the right way, I can't make the sounds.

I do tend to say "herb" rather than "erb" though

"erb" is an esp. hilarious Americanism - when, how, why?!?!?!

This is the only pronunciation I know (from OAD) and it's as close as you could get to the French while still speaking English. I put the emphasis on the 2nd syllable:

croissant |ˈkrwasɒ˜|

xpost "erb" is closer to the French obv.

I wonder how many times the "herb" v. "erb" conversation has played out on ILX over the years.

.. is "erb" like one of those 17th century pronunciations?

Do the British roll the "r" in "croissant" or something?

Only some people can roll their "r's" in the UK!

let's do oregano next

I was taught that erb was "correct" and the British put the "h" back in unnecessarily in order to differentiate the learn-ed from the Cockney. Overcompensation, wot? Or was Tom kidding?

I've heard the "ss" in croissant take on a "th" sound at times. Where is that native to?

xpost to cowzn - and aluminum v alumin'I'um after that!

mazda is pronounced "motts-dah" in japan (ma tsu da)

others:
toyota = "toe yoe tah"
nissan = "knee sahn"
mitsubishi = "mitts-beeshe"
honda = "hone-dah" (this is probably the furthest off from english pronunciation)
suzuki = "suze-key" - u's are kinda slurred over/skipped

I've heard the "ss" in croissant take on a "th" sound at times. Where is that native to?

Barthelona

pastries that aren't even crescent shaped get called croissants in the US, so it's a bit much to expect them to say it right.

I've never seen/heard anyone in the US refer to pastries in general as croissants.

A lot of the time, croissants take on the name crescents.

http://www.primo-ristorante.co.uk/img/Filet_Mignon_013.jpg

So...if I wanted to order this cut of beef in the US, do I say fillet or filay? Thought I understood for a bit, but got confused again...

out of fairness I have two questions

1. if the Brit term "fillet steak" makes me imagine a steak that has been machine-tooled (almost like saying "beveled steak"), does the term "strip steak" make Brits imagine a steak in a g-string?

2. is there much Brit use of "fillet" as a transitive verb?

toyota = "toe yoe tah"

I pronounced it Toy-ota for most of my life until the guy at the dealership corrected me.

There's a joke in my family that my little brother said something to my mom when he was a baby that sounded like "toy Yoda" and since she hadn't let him see Star Wars, she couldn't figure out how he knew the character...until she turned around and saw that they were standing next to a Toyota truck.

if you are in the US, do a GIS for chocolate croissant. not much on that first page is crescent shaped. s'all i'm saying.

how do they pronounce french words in st louis?

A few years ago, some radio station in the US was sued over a "Win a Toyota" contest, when the girl who won was presented with a toy Star Wars figure. I can't remember the judgement.

2. is there much Brit use of "fillet" as a transitive verb?

Well yes, how else to describe what all those workers do everyday in fish factories up in Peterhead and Grimsby?

http://allweirdnews.com/this-news-stories-is-very-funny-and-weird/ xp

(oh right, it was a Hooters)

Or an Ooters as you would pronounce it

Ooterrrs

If it's preceded by an "a," the H is heard. By an "an," and it's silent. Which drives me NUTS when I hear people saying "an historic event" now.

Roberto our croissants are moon-shaped, but if you want to pack a bunch of chocolate in one, there are pretty obvious structural reasons why a rectangle might be easier on everyone

not much on that first page is crescent shaped

True to the original pain au chocolat, they aren't, but somehow in the 70's, I imagine, when croissants started poppin up everywhere, the word also applies sometimes to puff pastry.

It's weird that originally croissant meant (and is still the present participle of the verb) 'growing'. Would like a growing with chocolate?

One of those reasons is that I thought the chocolate for the chocolate croissants came in little bars.

\If it's preceded by an "a," the H is heard. By an "an," and it's silent. Which drives me NUTS when I hear people saying "an historic event" now.

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, July 9, 2009 9:11 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, it's just an overcompensation thing. it's pronounced "an 'istorical event".

an 'istorickle event

But it makes no sense in US English. Historic/Historical is pronounced the same way as history, with the audible "H" and should be modified as such.

im an 'istory grad and like the way i say it.

enry iggins

i think its spelled histourical

it's a good thing ILX is text-based, or we'd apparently never understand a thing anyone said

Any more of your lip and you'll be eating 'ospickle food

an istorical makes you sound like an cockney

xposts if you gotta put a filling in your pastry, call it something else. too obvious?

im enery the eighff i am

The reason for "an historic" isn't anything to do with the British, it's because "ahistoric" is actually a word. Although apparently my automatic spell-check doesn't recognize it.

aistoric

But context should sort that out usually, no, Laurel?

Totally agree, but that's the rule, if you follow it.

The reason for "an historic" isn't anything to do with the British, it's because "ahistoric" is actually a word. Although apparently my automatic spell-check doesn't recognize it.

― But not someone who should be dead anyway (Laurel), Thursday, July 9, 2009 9:23 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

waaaaaht. no.

"ahistoric" is a word like "asexual".

the an/h thing applies to "an hotel" and other h-words too.

Not in America where we pronounce our aitches, it doesn't.

or really "ahistorical", dunno if i've ever heard "ahistoric".

enry bringin real talk

Except some people pronounce "hotel" "otel"

opposite of sbing u rite now

A hotel
A hole in the ground
A hat
A hamburger

What other H-words do you mean, Mark?

'E's a honourable gent, our 'Enry and no mistake

tbh i think brits pronounce stuff randomly for shits n gigs/to fox americans.

xpost

an 'otel
an 'ole in the ground
an 'at
an 'amburger

a handbag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLIkD8wgFm8

pronouncing H at the start of words it pretty much for squares and rubes imho

Wery good, sir

LOL whole point of my post was to put 'imuo' at the end. FAIL

imoo

although i believe the sentiment to my very core, of course

if you gotta put a filling in your pastry, call it something else. too obvious?

we do call it something else -- we call it a "chocolate croissant" instead of a "croissant"

(seriously though I think what is being communicated here is that of the many types of pastry chocolate can be attached to, the one that has been used is the buttery/flaky croissant variety, thus distinguishing the item from a chocolate danish, chocolate strudel, chocolate cream puff, etc. etc.)

sort of like how a muffin shaped in a U, with blueberries, is still pretty well described as a "blueberry muffin"

I dunno, do we really use French pastry dough for anything except croissants here? I tend to think that's kind of it. It's not the shape that's being referred to, it's the kind of dough it uses. Which I guess is appropriate if you follow M White's logic about the name referring to how the dough rises when it bakes.

your gaie

― am0n, Thursday, 9 July 2009 19:28 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

more like "a mong"

xpost yeah, i am not too sure how useful M White's derivation is there. i think it's generally agreed that croissants are named for their crescent shape. it'd be like calling a lemon an orange because it happens to be citrusy. you are ignoring a key detail in the name.

Laurel, I think there are various (omg minefield) hors d'ouevre-type items that use the same type of pastry? Small savories? But yeah, I'm with you here.

ok I am going to include this for reference

1399, from Anglo-Fr. cressaunt, from O.Fr. creissant, from L. crescentum (nom. crescens), pp. of crescere "come forth, spring up, grow, thrive," from PIE base *ker- "to grow" (cf. L. Ceres, goddess of agriculture, creare "to bring forth, create, produce;" Gk. kouros "boy," kore "girl;" Arm. serem "bring forth," serim "be born"). First applied to the waxing moon, luna crescens, but subsequently mistaken to mean the shape, not the stage.

but for the record this is silly, we call them chocolate croissants because we have better things to do with our time than call them "chocolate croissant-style rectangular pastry products"

i.e., approximately the same reason British people do not order a "jacket potato that is not actually literally wearing a nylon jacket or anything"

subsequently mistaken by the French dudes who named their version of the pastries, you mean?

also, the chocolate pastries already have a name - pain au chocolat. life could be so much simpler.

Hahahah I was just going to say, does this conversation get any more interesting/complicated/retarded if I point out that the word "cresent" ALSO comes from the word for growing? You may think of that as a key detail in the name.

In Spanish, lemons and limes both go by "limon", so there's that.

butt 'urt

Americans can't say "pain au chocolat" any more than they can really say "croissant". French is kind of doomed here, I'm afraid.

but if the French dudes called it a crescent because it was shaped like a crescent, who cares where the word crescent comes from?

well not approximately, those two things have not much to do with one another, but pretty much I don't think anyone was about to learn to say "rectangulant" for something that, in our food culture, is recognizable to all as basically a different-shaped croissant with chocolate in it

xpost - I don't know who cares, Roberto, like I said, I just posted that to be helpful to y'all nerds

I think we are American and if you show us a croissant-type pastry with chocolate in it we will sensibly call it a "chocolate croissant" and get on with eating the fucker -- for all I care "croissant" could come from the verb for "believe"

I believe in chocolate croissants.

i believe you have the right to call a rectangle a crescent and that i have the right to mock you for it. and i will mock you:

lol, look at nabisco and his rectangular crsecent. what a tool.

i feel like i use my position as a Brit in the US to bring the cultures together.

Together like a train wreck.

haha Roberto you were just a little while ago arguing AGAINST the etymology of loan words having any bearing on our use of them -- pick a viewpoint and stick with it!

what what now? this sounds like some rhetorical twisting. please explain.

'fillet' is a word int he English language which you can use instead of the french 'filet'. you should try it some time.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, July 9, 2009 2:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

"'croissant' is a word in the English language which refers to a food product, not a shape. you should etc." ?

We call them croissants 'cause we got them from the French who call them croissants 'cause that shape was first defined by reference to a crescent (waxing) moon and they are so shaped as a reference to the Turks who were beaten at the gates of Vienna in 1686 (such pastries are still known as viennoiseries in French). They were supposedly brought to France by Marie-Antoinette.

We call them chocolate croissants because pain au chocolat is (a) difficult to pronounce and has a word that looks exactly like 'pain' in it, hardly a marketing advantage, (b) chocolate bread or bread with chocolate sounds stupid and unappetizing in English, and (c) croissants were enjoying a novelty vogue in the 70's and sellers WANTED to be associated with that kind of pastry, regardless of its shape.

Fwiw, the crescent has been a symbol of the Turks for at least 1,500 years. Just to clarify.

we also sometimes call dachshunds "weiner dogs" even when they're not from Vienna

it's crazy, I know

the english 'fillet' with that meaning is a direct translation of the french 'filet'. 'croissant' in english is a direct appropriation of the french 'croissant', with the same meaning. and pronounciation, supposedly. i don't get what the contradiction is. the US use of croissant to mean something else is just wrong. the crescent part is a tidy illustration of that, not the whole substance of it.

ok

the english 'fillet' with that meaning is a direct translation of the french 'filet'. Little string? It is?

Also, Roberto, if you are ever at all responsible for my fellow countrymen wandering around asking for a paynochocolate, my sensitive little ears will bleed and I will visit a horrific vengeance on you.

lol. yep, that's the only meaning of the word in French. xpost

well, that is a fair point.

Also, as pointed out above, we're merely giving the French back for the myriad English and American 'borrowed words' which are frankly unintelligible to native English speakers.

Mind you, the Dutch think it's perfectly delicious to put chocolate jimmies on slices of bread. The world is a confusing place.

his rectangular crsecent. what a tool.

Crescent wrench? Spanner?

No Nike - take a hike.

Whilw we're at it, why do Americans (and Canadians) often use the Italian word for food and the Brits use the French? Courgette/zucchini.

http://www.aumarche.com/_ccLib/image/products/DETA1-462.jpg

I mean, c'mon, we can pertty much do whatever we want, provided that there's enough of a consensus that most people can understand what we're talking about.

Mind you, the Dutch think it's perfectly delicious to put chocolate jimmies on slices of bread

Toasted half of baguette (lengthwise), good French butter, good French chocolate - bliss.

(Oh, and I was born and raised in England, live now in Canada and I've always said Nigh-key.)

Lostandfound, I think it's 'cause there's a lot more Italians than French in the States. Rocket/Arugula, etc...

I dare you guys to guess what a 'zapping' is in French.

Windsor, Ontario is a funny place. There are so many French names for streets and important buildings, every one of which is butchered beyond recognition by the local population. "Drouillard" = "Droolerd". "Pelissier" = "Pelisher". Even "Pierre St" becomes "Peary".

xposts There are surely more francophones in Canada!

True for the States, but not for Canada, surely? (Although I think Canada sometimes just lazily goes along with the States for the sake of peace). I mean, aubergine is so much more fun to say than eggplant (ha, altho' eggplant isn't Italian, obv)!

(That was an xpost to Michael W)

let's talk about uighurs

sort of like how a muffin shaped in a U, with blueberries, is still pretty well described as a "blueberry muffin"

what? that's a cake. or coffee cake. If it's square or rectangular, it's cake; if it's roundish, it's muffin.

Whoever said it's a good thing (a good job, for our British friends) that this is text-based, otherwise we wouldn't understand a word anyone is saying, was OTM (I have feeling it was nabisco, ha ha).

Uighers!

Yes, let's! I had no idea what Rachel Maddow was talking about till I saw the name in print and then ZAP it suddenly made sense.

come to think of it, I probably shouldn't have assumed nobody objects to our using "weiner" to refer to certain varieties of sausage, as opposed to things that are Viennese -- you never know

I can't read about food anymore, I'm broke and now I'm hungry.

I still have no idea what uighers is.

I mean honestly, I heard people talking about Uighurs and Han and they were pronouncing these things so carelessly, so Americanly, that it sounded like WIENERS and HUNG. Can we not try a little bit harder? Maybe Uighur is just that funny, though. I dunno.

If it's square or rectangular, it's cake; if it's roundish, it's muffin.

haha wait, so cupcakes are muffins now, and the things people serve when they get married are "wedding muffins?"

this is the greatest thread that has ever been

i had to wiki uighurs, but now i know what they are

xp - muffins are just cupcakes without icing. duh.

I thought they were saying "wiggers" on the CBC News and was all 0_o

Wait, muffins are round, but they have to have a much larger top that sticks out over the paper bit.

round things: cupcakes have frosting. muffins don't, though they might have a glaze.

But is it pie?

btw - I'm American and don't consider non-crescent shaped pastries to be croissants.

And muffins are like fist-sized compared to cupcakes.

I thought they were saying "wiggers" on the CBC News and was all 0_o
that's what i'm saying! it's either 'wiggers' or 'wieners'; either way, those uighurs are seriously f'ed. worse than the kurds.
can they not get a better name? they've been around since 630 AD or something?!!

can't these ancient peoples cooperate with english pronunciation standards?!?! gah.

Lostandfound, I think that Italians were responsible for introducing some 'color' to the otherwise bland kind of subsistence food most white Americans ate before their arrival; spaghetti, lasagna, garlic bread, eventually pizza, etc... - these are all American staples after the 20s or so, whereas most French food from Canada is from before French food became synonymous with 'fancy' or refined eating and was always viewed with suspicion by the Anglos.

I know they make some muffins pretty cakey now, guys, but there are actual differences in how you make muffin batter vs. how you make cake batter (muffin batter is denser and you don't mix it as much), and I think our distinctions between the two have something to do with those differences -- also level of sweetness, types of grains used, inclusion of solid objects, and general social-purpose stuff surrounding whether it's being presented as a dessert or as a breakfast/snack item

Generally, when foregn names are put into Roman script, the pronunciation is closer to Latin than English, I think. Except for Chinese and Welsh whose transcription into Roman characters doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

(xpost) Michael, that is eminently sensible. I do have to cop to that earlier idea that English people love to Anglicise French just to irritate the French, too. It's not even mean-spirited, just a kind of centuries-long habit. Almost affectionate, sometimes.

xp nabisco - agreed on the distinction between cupcake and muffin; but if you bake something with these muffin-like attributes in a square/rectangular pan it is no longer a muffin, but a cake.

What I would find fascinating would be if sarahel's take on it became dominant and 'chocolate croissants' in America actually became crescent shaped even though they are clearly descended from the rectangular French pain au chocolat.

Subjectively, I still think a muffin ought to look like a muffin, but I won't be overly concerned if I'm proved objectively wrong.

but if you bake something with these muffin-like attributes in a square/rectangular pan it is no longer a muffin, but a cake.

Nonononono nono this is not true.

Hahaha...

What a thread.

haha anyway that's why I picked a U shape

you picked a U shape because deep down you are a uighur

if someone were like "here, I made a U-shaped muffin" you wouldn't start arguing with them about how it wasn't a muffin anymore

Cupcakes are cakes made in little cups, out of cake batter. Muffins are also made in little cups, out of a different kind of batter. Putting muffins in a larger pan does not make them cakes. It would make them a coffee-cake if anything, or a breakfast quick bread.

Actually muffins are a quick bread, a bread that rises from the action of something besides yeast.

I'm not saying anyone's wrong any more -- I'm just completely, utterly lost now.

why would anyone make a square muffin, that is just insane

although HEY, etymology-wise apparently "muffin" comes from the German for "small cake," so according to the Spiralli method of judging these things ALL IS LOST

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Walnut_cinnamon_coffee_cake.jpg

See? Square and baked in a larger, presumably square, pan. Coffee cake.

Americans will muffin-ize everything - i.e. add as many different things they can think of as fillings/toppings. We have done this with pizza. We have done this with bagels. We have done this with scones. I was at the gross-ree store a few weeks back trying to find plain scones, and all there were were: blueberry, raisin, raspberry, etc.

xp laurel: yes, I would consider it to be a coffee cake

What if someone baked a muffin in the shape of a Nike running shoe, though? How would you pronounce "muffin" then?

xp, it would depend if it had a paper baking cup around it.

Fwiw, Lostandfound, I don't think that English or French are particularly suited to Roman script, especially since one thing we do share is a quaint attachment to historical spelling. Such as it is, I have read accounts of Frenchmen going to England in the 19th Century and being stunned by the disparity between their expectations of pronunciation and the actual local pronunciation. One example that springs to mind is this one guy talking about the word, flirtation, a French word to boot. For him it should be 'fleertahsseeon' (with that final 'n' being pronounced in that nasal Frenchway. Instead, he is shocked that it is pronounced (in his spelling) fleutachionne. Reading his account, except for all the specific Frenchness, he could have sounded just like a certain kind of Englishman abroad.

haha I suspect we have done that with scones because American scones, plain, are terrible

HONGREEEEEEEE

I agree with Laurel; big rectangular muffin = bread

btw why the (h)ell did I avoid this thread all day, it's awesome

xp if you put jam and butter on them, they are fine. That is how I learned to eat them, and I would not want to eat them without jam --- too dry.

Hurray, I'm moving to America and no-one is going to understand me! I will NEVER say 'erbs. 'Erbal Essences. No.

did you know: if you tie a sausage in a knot it becomes a "pretzel"

(xpost to MW) Yeah, it can be jarring when you and your family and friends have pronounced something the same way all your life and you encounter the same word in new contexts. I remember English people being actually angry at some American idioms/alternatives (drapes, faucet, gotten, etc). The world's too small for us not to notice any more. To me, it's all richness in the end (which is why I enjoy your etymological posts, MW).

xp Carmel, Indiana and Carmel, California - not pronounced the same.

The nice thing about Canada is that we can pretty much choose (between the British and the US) which way to say things, and we're all over the place with it. You don't often hear Canadians say "erb", for e.g.

wait, "faucet"?

I agree, Lostandfound. I remember being a young teenager on what we call vacation in the UK and seeing and hearing all this 'weird' English was a thrill.

We should have just called them chocolatines

Dan, I meant instead of "tap", not as an alternate pronunciation.

Things I'd never be able to adapt to...

Calling a trunk a boot. A boot is a boot, fer cryin out loud!

Calling a truck a lorry. I love Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, but I never think about it translating to Red Truck Yellow Truck.

a cuboid-shaped piece of yeast-leavened laminated dough similar to puff pastry

They just out-nabisco'ed nabisco.

Also, and I know the US is one of the only places in the world where this occurs, but "Z" will always be "zee" to me and never "zed."

Ha I realized you meant "tap" nanoseconds after I posted; that gets used a lot as well, depending on where you live.

xposts Johnny, I managed to do both those things the opposite way, so you could.

Bonnet became hood, too!

How do you pronounce this word: "often"

Tap is more common the southeast, for sure.

"faucet that ass" has a very different connotation, tho

xp Dan: we say tap water to mean water from the kitchen faucet.

Ha I realized you meant "tap" nanoseconds after I posted; that gets used a lot as well, depending on where you live.

Yeah, there's no homogenised American usage, that's for sure. I hear "glove box" a lot here (Vancouver, but also down the coast) yet more often in the east they use the more British "glove compartment".

xpost Dan -- "offen"

off(t)en...just the slightest hint of a "t" sound in the middle.

off-n - with the slightest hint of an "ih" not "eh"

Like Johnny Fever does

I went through a phase where I ostentatiously said "OFF-TEN" because the idea of a silent 't' annoyed me; now I have no idea how I say it and it usually depends on whether the person I'm talking to pronounces the 't' or not.

I'm vehemently opposed to pronouncing the T in "often."

I think I mostly say it like sarahel if I don't think about it.

"privacy" is another fun one

On that note, I pronounce vehemently as "veeyamently."

I cannot pronounce Wednesday 'correctly' (ala BBC WS - Weddensday) without careful reflection. It just sounds like a different, made-up day.

you know what are great, are popovers

I tend to swap the "dn" for "nd" in Wednesday.

I put the T in often, but I'm also probably annoying everyone I know by being sort of conflicted about "February" and not just being able to go to the flow on the mis-pronunciation.

hahaha xp to MW

"Weddensday"? I have never heard that in my life!

I think it was John Peel (though it may have been someone else before him) who said never to trust anyone who pronounced both "r"s in "February".

"The Great Nigh-Key CON-tro-versy" versus "The Great Nike Con-TROV-ersy?"

Peelie was probably spot on.

I just say Wensday knowing in my heart of hearts that it really should be Wodensday and I should be flaying apostles.

I make an effort to keep the first 'r' in February 'cause there's nothing I find sadder than hearing about people going to the libary.

It's much easier to pronounce the first "r" in library than it is to pronounce it in February.

Hmm, being honest, I was going to add to my last post.... "although that means I should probably never be trusted". :(

Feburary would be easier to say, but is not a real word.

Can I use this thread to say that I think that pronouncing "processes" as "process-EASE" makes me want to throw acid in the face of the speaker?

Pronouncing February properly is like trying to eat a particularly chewy croissant!

JF, no it's not. That's just training. If you had been saying it thus all your life, you wouldn't notice the difference.

I work in a libry and have given up caring about the other two letters. Leave 'em for the cataloguers.

process-EASE would be the noun form, right? process-ES is the verb form.

xp I think I end up saying:

feb-er-ary
vee-ya-ment-ly
wenns-day

people accent the second syllable in "controversy"?

sarahel, the Brits again. sigh. j/k

Con-TROV-ersy.

people accent the second syllable in "controversy"?

Yeah, I never heard that either.

Also I just watched someone get all excited that she'd found a tub of sherbet from the store on which they COMICALLY MISSPELLED "SHERBERT, GUYS, LOOK AT THIS!" She's cute and I like her but...

xp "process-ease" is the plural of the noun.

I spent a lot of time training my mouth muscles and my tongue to make French sounds that weren't natural. No accent or speech patter is 'natural' as witnessed by the speech of infants but once you do it long enough, it become second nature.

I am a treacherous former Limey who now fits in with my neighbours (not spelling) and accents the first syllable.

haha I know I'd posted this before:

I also had a health teacher who pronounced the words "larynx" and "pharynx" as "lar-nicks" and "far-nicks". This is the same man who almost sent me to the principal's office for arguing with him after he told the class that a broken arm was a disease.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:27 AM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I was going to say maybe he was dyslexic, but that wouldn't excuse the second part!

xp I pronounce the noun and verb "processes" the same - again with the "ih" not the "eh" - prah-sess-is

OMG, Dan, that's awesome.

It does remind me of how Favre became 'farve' instead of 'faver'.

sarahel otm

Febyerry.
Frebrurary.
Febry.
(opens and shuts mouth like a cat chewing on cotton wool)

I'm trying to remember what word I've mostly given up on saying because it always comes out weird.

Technically "PROcesses" was the noun and "proCESSes" was the verb, except when it came to mean something other than walking it kept the noun pronunciation in both cases, and only then grew the -ees pronunciation as a Latinesque frill to re-distinguish them. I think.

When I was a kid on road trips with the parents, we would play this word game where you have to guess a word one person is thinking of. And it begins with "I'm thinking of a word that rhymes with 'x'." My mom's from California, but my dad's family is from West Virginia, and sincerely believed that "fence" rhymes with "since."

Kiwis might agree, too.

wait, would it be fair to say (about American usage) that in general we more often use "tap" to refer to the general concept/fact of having streaming water available (e.g., "tap water") and often use "faucet" to refer to the actual physical assembly that controls the flow of said water?

^^ note how I made a statement and then added "would it be fair to say" in the knowledge that someone will disagree with me

Awww, that's cute, sarahel.

Ha ha, but do Americans rinse their dishes with the tap or the faucet?

We wash our dishes in the sink. Or, if we're luck, in the dishwasher.

+y

xp we rinse our dishes with wah-ter, or wah-der!

(Sorry, that was a lame reference to an old ILE thread.)

Hmm, nabisco, I've always known 'tap' but somehow it sounds older than faucet. Maybe it's a regional thing, too.

What'e the difference between a tap and a spigot?

$30

xp actually the "fence"/"since" thing - I was telling a friend of mine from Tennessee about this, and he also believed these two words rhymed, but he pronounced them "fence" and "sence", whereas my dad pronounced them "fince" and "since".

Here, found it: Defend the Indefensible: British People Not Rinsing Soap Off the Dishes

Okay, one difference just occurred to me in the way I think of tap and faucet. If the there are separate knobs to turn on the hot and cold, it feels more like a tap. If I can turn them both on and they have only one outlet, it's more like faucet.

Missed most of this thread since I was busy today, but can we argue about "pasta" again?

also "pin" and "pen" are homonyms in dad-speak.

Spigots are what you hook the hose up to, outside.

I agree, Laurel.

Does that mean that a spigot are always threaded?

Mine syntax are good today's.

Michael, this is getting complicated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(valve)

Not sure. You could have a spigot that was only good for filling buckets, and didn't connect to a hose, I guess.

Or actually, too simplistic -- a tap (faucet, spigot, etc) is a valve, and that's it.

haha jaymc i was waiting for mark c to turn up but he's mostly off ilx these days, also autumn almanac with his bizarre "arse" spelling obsession

(Fucked up that URL above: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(valve)[/i])

I could be wrong, but I think of the faucet as the entire mechanism - if there are separate hot/cold outflow devices, it is a faucet with two taps. Also, the device that one attaches to a keg of beer is a tap, never a faucet.

Does autumn almunac channel Father Jack or something?

xposts Ha, forget it.

I agree, sarahel (and admire your new moniker) but I think it's synedoche in a way, 'cause strictly speaking, to me, the facet is the tube from which the liquid flows.

the faucet is not just the tube

If I understand correctly, I'm with sarahel, in terms of the "faucet" being the whole mechanical assembly that controls the "tap." As evidenced by the following:

- "would you like some tap water" -- the tap is the water source, and you wouldn't say "faucet water"
- "you left the tap/faucet running" -- can use either because both are running, basically
- "I think we have a leaky faucet" -- because the problem is the actual assembly that manages the waterflow

p.s. i love you all

xp nabisco: correct

- "would you like some tap water" -- the tap is the water source, and you wouldn't say "faucet water"
- "I think we have a leaky faucet" -- because the problem is the actual assembly that manages the waterflow

You could just as easily reverse these, though (even though I realize people don't):

"would you like some faucet water" -- the tap is just the conduit for getting the water that originates from the faucet into your glass
"I think we have a leaky tap" -- because the tap is the part that the water is leaking from

'Tap water' is an idion in American English, so faucet water, while understandable, sounds 'foreign'. I'm inclined to think that 'tap' for a water faucet is dying out in American English.

xp jaymc: sometimes the leak is from other parts of the faucet assembly

# "Nike" pronunciation poll [Started by "lol" as frivolity (Stevie D) in July 2009, last updated 33 seconds ago by faucet that ass (sarahel)]473 new answers...

# the USA, Israel, and national interest [Started by DV (dirtyvicar) in March 2006, last updated 3 hours ago by Aimless] 4 new answers
# so let's place bets: how long before the US invades Iran [Started by Shakey Mo Collier in February 2005, last updated 3 hours ago by Aimless] 6 new answers

Just sayin...

hello i am an english please shop at nike

jaymc has just confused me

we could just as easily do a lot of stuff we don't!

xp jaymc: sometimes the leak is from other parts of the faucet assembly

I s'pose you're right. I don't think a whole lot about leaky faucets, tbh.

anyway n1ck I dunno how we're going to figure out Israel or Iran until we can at least sort out what a muffin is

btw I have read this entire thread and apart from wanting to kill myself a little bit, I think Britishers and Mericans arguing over the "correct" pronunciation of anything is pretty much insane.

can we not just call the whole thing off?

I think Britishers and Mericans arguing over the "correct" pronunciation of anything is pretty much insane.

better we're arguing about pronouncing things than racist bottle openers or world politics.

mike

Much of it is discussion, though, not argument.

I think we sorted out muffin vs. non-muffin though.

I do remember when the brand first entered my consciousness and thinking they were pronounced like mike and then being upbraided by someone at school for not knowing the correct pronunciation.

we could just as easily do a lot of stuff we don't!

Yes, but you're trying to prove the tap is called the tap because that's where tap water comes from, and I'm saying OK sure, but you could also argue (just as solidly, IMO) that tap water comes from what we're calling the faucet, in which case maybe the faucet is really "the tap." I mean, I don't think it is, but your argument is kind of flimsy.

I think we have a habit of choosing the shortest word for something when there are multiple options of what to call something, especially in day-to-day speech. Internally I think "glove compartment" but will regularly say "glove box" - because it is shorter.

The glove compartment is inaccurately named
And everybody knows it
So I'm proposing a swift orderly change
Because behind its door
There's nothing to keep my fingers warm
And all I find are souvenirs from better times
Before the gleam of your tail lights fading east
To find yourself a better life

whew this thread is reeling me. i'm gonna head to the local bar and see what beers they have on faucet.

Does anybody anywhere pronounce 'Wednesday' as anything other than 'wenz-day'?

you could also argue (just as solidly, IMO) that tap water comes from what we're calling the faucet

I thought this was what I was arguing

OK, now I'm confused.

i just pronounced it wed-nez-day over n over again to myself for my own sick amusement ^_^ peace

I got about halfway down this most quintessential of all ILE threads before giving up, but I would like to say the way Americans* say 'croissant' is idiotic, primarily due to accenting the second syllable to a ridiculous degree.

*In films. I have to build blind prejudice from somewhere.

you guys just don't like it because it makes you think you're aunt is mad at you

"your"

syllable stresses that make you pass negative judgment on someone

How do we say it in America? Cwassont?

you guys just don't like it because it makes you think you're aunt is mad at you

― nabisco, Thursday, 9 July 2009 22:30 (2 minutes ago)

"your"

― nabisco, Thursday, 9 July 2009 22:31 (1 minute ago)

Who are you and what have you done with Nabisco?

How do 'merkins say 'croissant'? I keep finding myself mystified on these threads. I still can't get over 'clique' pronounced as 'click'.

cwusSAUNT

btw Jaymc I think my position was that generally, in common American usage, "faucet" is used more to refer to the actual device/assembly that regulates the flow of water (the thing you buy from Moen that is still a "faucet" even when it's sitting in a store attached to nothing), and that "tap" is used more to refer to, like, the spot itself where there is running water to be regulated, the access point or just the whole concept -- so like tap water comes from the tap, and is dispensed using an assembly called a faucet?

clique your heels three times and you won't be in Kansas anymore.

I always hear it pronounced as 'CwaSSONT', as opposed to 'CWAssont' as the French and British say it.

sorry, I TAKE THAT BACK

slightly fancy American pronunciation = cwusSAUNT
everyday American pronunciation = crusSAUNT

yes it's basically just a stress/accent different, plus a lot of us say it with an R

I mean, CWAssont is a very French-sounding way of pronouncing it, I'm surprised the English would go for it

(xpost to matt dc) No 't' at the end in French, surely?

I had taken the silent T for granted. Idiot Matt DC.

In the movie Rubin and Ed Karen Black's character says "croo-sants"

cruhSAHNT

cruhSAHNT

that's the American way.

Don't Americans tend to pronounce French loan words with the stress on the final syllable (presumably because they think it sounds more French?)

Whereas British people tend (but not always) to pronounce them with the stress on the first syllable (which is where the stress most commonly falls in English words.

So: Pâté in USA sounds like 'pah-TAY' and in Britain 'PA-tay'.

But (and I might be wrong about this) ironically I don't think they actually have word stress in French in the same way that we do in English, so if a French person said that word both syllables would have equal weighting.

The French have a nimble bounce off the first syllable AND an accent on the second. It's their way of showing superiority over the linguistically lumbering Anglo-American types.

Whereas British people tend (but not always) to pronounce them with the stress on the first syllable (which is where the stress most commonly falls in English words.

Also see: British people pronouncing the name of the former president of France as "Jack SHEER-ack" vs. Americans' "Zhock Sha-ROCK."

It's harder for me to try to figure out how croissant would be typically pronounced in American than to pronounce it in French with less of an authentic accent. New Orleans (and as Lostandfound pointed out above, lots of Canada, no doubt) simply boggles my mind.

Don't Americans tend to pronounce French loan words with the stress on the final syllable (presumably because they think it sounds more French?)

I think you're right. I'm trying to think of a French word we don't do that with.

You guys no doubt have a really stupid and wrong way of pronouncing 'Barack Obama' as well.

I convinced a few people that rapper Mase was pronounced massez because it was Creole or something.
my contribution to hip-hop culture!

Matt, are you saying British people are racist?

Most of my posts are at least heavily implying it, frankly.

toyota = "toe yoe tah"

I pronounced it Toy-ota for most of my life until the guy at the dealership corrected me.

WTF its pronounced "TOY-o-tah" even in the commercials FOR THE CAR in my country.

And how is "hyundai" ever pron "hundai", you're missing the Y! "hi-yun-dai". It japanese ffs.

And how is "hyundai" ever pron "hundai"

That's how it's pronounced in car commercials and by every American I've met, including me.

She's right, you know. I mean sarahel is. It's marketed differently here, apparently.

it's korean btw

Anything else you wanted to add?

Trayce, that is.

trayce's korean?

Probably not, if she thinks Hyundai is Japanese. I defer to habl on that one, I have no idea.

You guys no doubt have a really stupid and wrong way of pronouncing 'Barack Obama' as well.

Haha, I remember listening to BBC World Report around the time of the election last year and thinking "oh shit, even if he wins, I'm going to have to listen to them saying 'bear-ack o-BOMB-er' for the next four years."

xp "Hyun" is a pretty common (transliterated) Korean syllable.

[i]'bear-ack o-BOMB-er'[i]

Please add this (with 'Wed-nez-day') to the list of pronunciations that no British people have ever used.

fuck a formating

'bear-ack o-BOMB-er'

kind of amazed dr morbius never came up with this.

I miss that guy ... I also avoid politics threads.

one out of two isnt bad

'Barack Obama'

^^ we pronounce in the French style, which is "uuuuuuuuuohba-MA?"

And how is "hyundai" ever pron "hundai", you're missing the Y! "hi-yun-dai". It japanese ffs.

^^ I also feel bad for Fuck that a Korean car company has been lying all these years on his account

pretty sure i've heard it pronounced "hundee", but that was kanye west so maybe he was forcing a rhyme?

have never heard Obama pronounced like Omaha, sadly

OK well apparently australians are all retarded, thanks guys, you've been swell.

Cunts.

(Sorry for the outburst, I'm just not sure what Laurels snotty "anything else to add?" was in aid of and why my comments are shat on when everyone else gets a say. Do I miss out because its 9am here and I only just saw the thread?)

True fact: At an awards dinner in 2002, I repeatedly pronounced Adidas -- which is properly pronounced "AH-dee-dass" -- as "uh-DEEEE-dus" in a conversation with the director of investor relations for Adidas. As this event took place in Frankfurt, and she was German and I am American, I bet it really reflected well on my country and on me

I misspelled Adidas once. It was circled in red, and the correct spelling written underneath. This was on a SPANISH test.

lol this thread got ugly!

yeah. it started out so promisingly, too.

i mean how is nike pronounced is the question that had to be asked on ilxor.com

we should have known what we were getting into.

I repeatedly pronounced Adidas -- which is properly pronounced "AH-dee-dass" -- as "uh-DEEEE-dus"

wait, so I was saying it right when I was a kid and had no idea how to say it, and then everyone corrected me to be wrong?

krs one says it ah dee dass
let the rappers show the way

run dmc otoh...

remember that korn song -_-

tennis players elsewhere on the web are telling me it comes from the name Adi (Adolf) Dassler

therefore French people, rather than Americans, would have a better shot at getting away with "uh-DEE-dus"

^^ this joke will bring us back to the ideological battle underpinning this whole thread, which is how much our word usage or pronunciation should be dictated or informed by the word's origins

but instead we should all really rise up and curse these eager-to-please corporations who happily say their name however they think it benefits them in different countries, creating mass confusion and internet arguments

I mean, I guess I do that with my name, but if I were going to pay millions and millions of dollars around the world to advertise myself, I'd totally have my mom come in and dub the one true pronunciation into the commercials

natsuhional biscuit compbebe

it's pronounced "nabby-scow"

scooby snack?

In this thread, where some see ugliness, others see playful, childlike curiosity and frolicking with abandon in bountiful word-meadows. Except the "cunts" part. (Although for what it's worth, I didn't see anything wrong with Trayce's contribution... and I even pronounce it "Hundai"!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai#Name_and_pronunciation

wait, that suggests Trayce is saying it differently than other Australians

i pronounced this the first way, as did everyone I know, in the late 70's when I was like 8.

Trayce is right re australian pronunciation i reckon

Yeah I say it "hyundai". I'm sure thats how ppl here say it? Look I'm not saying THATS HOW ITS SAID, I said thats how it gets said here. I'm sure even on the ads?

Gah typing is shit for pronunciation talks.

"hyun-dai". The "hyun" bit as one rapid slur, like "hyoon"

Weird, wiki says we say "hee un dae". I wouldve thought that was clumsy, but eh *shrug*

PS youre all still cunts.

/droll

Darling Nike

I should add a disclaimer at this point that might help: I dont drive, know NOTHING about cars, and dont watch TV. So you know, like, ignore me.

PS its Nikey.

Great Scott! 565 answers?! This thread is unreal and far beyond my ken. tl;dnr

BTW, I live within a few miles of the epicenter of Nike Corporation in Beaverton, Oregon and I have lived with this sad fact for decades. I can tell you with absolute authority that the owner, the employees and all others intimately connected to this business pronounce it:

Nye'-kee (iow, rhymes with Mikey).

Hey guys how do you pronounce tipping?

trayce they def say hee un day on the ads. I recall the latest one coz it's got that smug cunt rising up on the pillars for the i30 or whatev

i've seen quite a few hee un day ads in my time...

i've never seen an ad where they pronounced it like that

Wilter yeah youre right now I think about it. I guess I've just slurred "hee un day" as "hyunday" all this time.

TBH I am kind of flip-floppy with how I pronounce some things.

reminds me of how some ppl pronounce 'here' as two syllables hee-ah

Whoa, does "Hyundai" actually rhyme with "Sunday" in the US?? I've heard a number of pronunciations but not that one. "Hun-dye" is how I (and most people here AFAICT) say it.

I drive a Hyundai BTW. Everyone at the dealership pronounced the 2nd syllable "dye" IIRC.

Don't Americans tend to pronounce French loan words with the stress on the final syllable (presumably because they think it sounds more French?)

Most of our exposure to the French language since at least the 1950s comes from Pepe le Pew.

And Inspector Clouseau.

and JCVD

I accidentally got a job at McDonalds when i was 15 and found that behind the counter the fish sandwich ius pronounced 'fill-ay o fish' whereas its only ever referred to as 'fill-et o fish' by customers. maybe a sign that australia is the bastard child of england and the US?

also for those who say ad-ee-dass - STFU and listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0R32IK5zhw

also im fine with most US car pronunciations except sell-E-car (celica)

x-post LOL sunny <3

sell-E-car

But you're in Arkansas right? Trust me, that's not how most of us pronounce Celica.

yeah the south is all i know

nissan = "knee sahn"

i pronounce this dat-sun

reminds me of how some ppl pronounce 'here' as two syllables hee-ah

Thats a real Perthism, that one.

The French and Spanish both pronounce it to rhyme w/ Mike FWIW.

And that's okay. As long as they never ever speak of it in America where the full force of the corporate banhammer will crush down upon their puny skulls.

I'm a Brit and I'm Nikey btw. Just sounds nicer.

(This thread's still going eh? Good work.)

it's fucking mike

lock thread

lord -- all I meant about "willful mispronunciation" was, yes, the kind of old-British thing Michael means with Churchill, or the way older British academics pronounce Don Juan (Don Jew-an) ...

― nabisco, Thursday, July 9, 2009 8:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

on the isle of man, the quasi-british island my family's from, we have the name juan, legend has it, because some spaniards from the armada got shipwrecked/owned in the irish sea, and interbred with the natives.

to this day it is pronounced 'jew-an'.

i think there's another spanish name, maybe inez, which has a similarly wrong pronunthiation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56g0OUGK1Fw

Phoning in a vote for 'Mike' on behalf of a Mr D. Rascal.

on the isle of man, the quasi-british island my family's from,

And all is explained...

Kkekekekeke. I know someone whose mother is named Inez, pronounced "eye-nez" obv. She's from the American Deep South, where they also massacre names like Cairo and Versailles.

today on npr i heard some british person say barack obomber

When I lived in Nashville, I hated the fact that the locals pronounced Lafayette as Luh-FAY-et.

today on npr i heard some british person say barack obomber

No, you didn't.

Dunno, some British regional accents saying 'Obama' would veer pretty close to the way Americans say 'bomber'.

Very very much so. Australians, too.

i have heard the late night british news service peeps say obomber for sure

That's what I'm talking about.

maybe npr just gets all your dumb journalists

bu-RACK o-BOMB-er

Dunno, some British regional accents saying 'Obama' would veer pretty close to the way Americans say 'bomber'.

Ah, I see what you mean. So the way British people say 'balm' sounds like the way Americans say 'bomb'. But then how do Americans say the middle syllable of his name? Surely it's not "o-bay-ma"???

o-bah-mah

or-bar-mar (superstar)

WTF is this thread about?

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (605 of them)

it is a thread about everything

I'm lost. How do Americans say O'Bomber and in what way does this differ from how they say Obama?

NBS, the difference between US and UK isn't with the "bah", it's on the very last syllable -- UKers and Aussies don't seem to hear that many words ending in -a are given what sounds to Americans like an -er ending.

there is no r at the end of obama. xpsot

Ah right. My wife always takes the piss out of me for that. Like if I have mexican food I like enchilarders.

shouldnt have written barack obomber, i didnt care about the bomb part, cause we say taht too, just the er part

americans say barack oh-balm-uh

this british journalist says bahrahck oh-balm-er

DROGBAR!

http://njmg.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/26/didier_drogba_1_the_associated_pres.jpg

Gotcha. So you use some kind of 'ah' sound instead of the ə sound.

yes

my favorite obama pronunciation was by a teenage girl on the train many months back, and she pronounces it oom-bahm-buh.

we are sensitive to this because the americans that say obomber are also the ones who emphasize the HUSSEIN to make a super clever point about how he is one of them terrorist types DO YOU SEE

Yeah no-one does that here. We just love adding Rs to the end of words for the hell of it. I didn't even realise we do it til Americans told me so.

o bomb 'er indoors

where i come from, in america, people don't like to avoid the -er sound at the end of many words. "drawer" becomes "draw" and so on. awful.

people don't like to avoid the -er sound at the end of many words.

^^^ this is incomprehensible sorry.

i MEANT TO SAY, people don't like t pronounce the -er sound.

Yeah, on that other pronunciation thread I linked to upthread, I claimed that "pasta" should be pronounced with a rounded A sound ("pahsta"), and two separate British people were like, "wtf, it's not pronounced 'par-stuh/pahs-ster'" and I was like "wtf no one said to willy-nilly add Rs to the word."

they stole them from new england

The real idiots of Britisher news say Barack like 'bare-ick'.

canadians say "pasta" funny too.

PASSSTER

ALREADY DEALT WITH. xpost

TBH I'm not really sure why accenting the 1st syllable of "croissant" would be any closer to the French. The French pronunciation places about an equal emphasis on each syllable, surely, with a slight raise in pitch on the 2nd. This seems to be what we're emulating when we accent the 2nd syllable.

srsly tho those UK "-er" endings always struck me as crazy ever since my Gr 4 teacher did them. Do people not even realize that they're doing that?

NO