People who look over their shoulder to check their blind spot when changing lanes on a motorway, classic or fucking terrifying?

No no, please feel free to spend two seconds looking in the opposite direction to which the vehicle you're driving is travelling at 70 miles an hour. And hey if you really want to make me feel comfortable, don't just turn your head, actually wrench your whole upper body round so it looks like you might just flip the steering wheel 90 degrees.

It's gotta be done, dude!

You don't check your blind spot when you change lanes?

yeah, you have to do this
i've been in several close calls when i failed to fully check the blind spot

its all 4 u dogg

its all 4 u

It's much more terrifying to be on someone's blind spot just as the dude on yr left decides to pull out maybe.

never done it, never needed to do it. just keep an eye on the mirrors, cars don't magically appear in your blind spot from out of nowhere .

lol dude, u crazy

No, that makes sense, fair play.

Just saying, it's less terrifying to be seen by the person Lurching round to check the blind spot, than have someone pull out in a "Not seen any cars for a bit, let's go" way.

I just took my drivers test a few months ago. Pretty sure that's what ya do.

Agreed - checking blind spots is a must every time. Regardless of your experience, speed etc.

Also an excellent habit to get into if you ever plan to drive abroad (i.e. any country where they drive on the other side of the road to you).

Mark G OTM.

ok the uk gov says "take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area", which i would do when merging, if i couldn't get a clear view beforehand. still don't see the need when overtaking, and backwards over the shoulder is just nuts.

Many times I've thought that I'd kept an eye on the mirrors, and then I learn with a honk that evidently I didn't. That's why I look over my shoulder. FWIW we were taught to do this in my driver's ed course.

I think we are of a mind now.

Right: Next up.

"People that hover left to right behind you when you are doing the speed limit doen a country lane with a view to overtake you on the off-chance that there's nothing coming around the next bend are FUCKing terrifying"

(highlight of yesterday, East of Wokingham)

When I was learning to drive (you'll be pleased to hear that I never got my licence) I hated doing this because I wear glasses, and while I'm perfectly able to see big things like cars and bikes without glasses, the transition from looking through glasses to trying to focus on the stuff down the sides of my vision where my glasses don't reach is kind of... difficult

Just me?

xp people who do this while talking on a cell phone.

you're meant to do this. lucky, 'cause I only have one wing mirror and some pretty big blind spots.

you're probably "meant" to do it 'cause most people are to dumb to be expected to keep an eye on what's behind them via mirrors.

just keep an eye on the mirrors, cars don't magically appear in your blind spot from out of nowhere .

― ledge, Monday, July 20, 2009 4:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

if you're driving in a 4/5 lane highway with a decent amount of cars going 65-70+ then yes they do

unless you're in a paul greengrass film or something

in which case you know where every car within a 5 mile radius is

I try to do this every time. But it feels awkward (probably because I don't drive much and haven't been driving for a long time). I tend to look a LOT in the mirrors though. My father says it's pretty pointless because there's not really that much of a blind spot with cars. It's more for buses, trucks and other large vehicles.

I still need to take my exam though. :-(((((((

(I have to add that my dad looks in his mirrors ALL the freaking time.)

if you're driving in a 4/5 lane highway with a decent amount of cars going 65-70+ then yes they do

if i'm also going 65-70 then relatively they're only doing 5mph at most. What about the guy doing 80-90? Actually that's me.

I do this - but it's not 2 seconds. True cars don't magically appear but, as a recent for instance, a car behind you in the middle lane decides to overtake you as you overtake the car in front.

Here's another one, person who overtakes you and nearly crashes into oncoming traffic on the entry road to the ferry so they can get ahead one car ahead of you in the queue! Classic or completely raving bonkers?

a car behind you in the middle lane decides to overtake you as you overtake the car in front.

so you'd see it disappear from the mirror! ok if it was there-one-minute gone-the-next that would be the 1 in a 100 time i'd glance to check where it is.

It seems to me you're spending more time looking in the mirror than the road ahead.

I think I do this (the shoulder thing) but I actually can't remember - I do all driving so instinctively that I can't actually think what I do when I'm not actually doing it. I will report back later once I've been into town, not that I'm likely to reach any decent overtaking speeds (i.e. people who plan two months worth of contraflows and lane closures right next to the airport in the height of summer, total fucking dud)

Also, Ned OTM, I'm fairly sure I'm not looking in the mirror that much, I *think* i tend to just see what's behind/beside me when I'm planning changing what i'm doing.

I'd be terrified to sit with you in car, Ledge. Can't understand how one could see this as "fucking terrifying", it has to be done, and can be done without any problem.

i glance at the mirror a few times a minute. xp. honestly it really does unnerve me.

and i'm pretty sure, since i'm so conscious when people do it, that a decent amount of people i know don't do it.

I would find that way more terrifying.

The guy who drives far too slowly in the slow lane, making the cars coming down the slip brake just when they should be accelerating onto the main carriageway. When he sees what he's doing and makes a late, blind lunge into the fast lane - dud.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/831031/

I'll go and admit I had an accident. I was waiting for the light to turn green - the boat was passing through, so the bridge was open. I was okay with just waiting but my dad kept saying I had to get out of the waiting queue and turn around. I told him I wasn't comfortable with doing this but he kept saying I should. (I didn't see the point: you just drive around, it probably takes just as much time making a detour. I also don't like doing these maneuvers.) So I got out but didn't look as I didn't expect a car (or any vehicle) to pass me by. It's not allowed cause the lane is for the opposite direction. Suddenly a cyclist bumped into the car and fell on the ground. She wasn't allowed to cycle there at all. I was shocked beyond belief. We were both in the wrong but of course I should have looked anyway. :-( Even now I feel so scared driving. :-((( I'm pretty sure it woudn't have happened if my dad wasn't with me. :-(

It's not a defense, but cyclists here are so reckless. They cycle where it's not allowed ALL THE FUCKING time. I saw one just cycling without looking coming from the left, the taxi was just able to stop.

Honestly I don't have any more nightmares, but I still feel very awkward driving. I doubt this feeling will ever go away: I am insecure as it is and I don't get much practice. :-(

eh, passing on either side is kind of de rigeur for cyclists - motorbikes do it too so it's not an exclusively "all cyclists are wankers" thing.

also please check for cyclists when pulling away from the kerb, blind spot included.

kthxbye

also shouting things at me out the window as you drive past is pointless I can't hear what you're saying.

Thanks to the laws of inertia and momentum, I can look over my shoulder when changing lanes without having to worry about my car careening wildly out of control.

It is the correct way to drive. Drivers who don't look over while they are changing lanes are the ones of whom other drivers should be afraid. If these drivers have eccentric theories about what would actually be the better way to drive, that's awesome for them and they should start kooky websites like Timecube about it, but the correct technique, as everybody has noted, is to look over your shoulder before changing lanes.

If conditions are right for passing, check in your mirrors and signal your lane change. Before pulling into the left lane, glance briefly over your left shoulder, through the rear side window, to make sure no vehicle is passing you or close behind you in the left lane. Never rely on your mirrors alone when preparing to change lanes. Even properly adjusted mirrors will leave "blind spots" behind you on both sides. If a vehicle is in the blind spot, you may not see it in your mirrors. Always glance over your shoulder before changing lanes or passing. -- from here

never done it, never needed to do it. just keep an eye on the mirrors, cars don't magically appear in your blind spot from out of nowhere

Motorcycles fucking can. Jesus Christ, I haven't been so fucking angry at something I've read on ILX in years. Dude, I have tremendous respect for you as a poster, but really: you drive like this and you shouldn't be on the fucking road.

Given how much cash we raised to save ILX, I'm tempted to set up a whipround for £140 so we can get you signed up for this, stat:

http://www.iam.org.uk/eshop/Purchase+Skill+for+Life/Car+sfl.htm

grimly motorcycles need to get with the program & just use the force

More calmly: two seconds would be excessive for a shoulder-check, yes. But I'm assuming that was exaggeration for effect?

If not: that IAM link is a doozy once again.

Grimly, I think it also depends on the type of car you have. If you have an SUV, this is larger than say my Mazda Demio. I do look over my shoulder though, regardless of my dad's advice.

awaiting ledge's sequel thread:

People who keep their hands at 10 and 2 while driving, classic or fucking terrifying?

While we're on the topic:

The traditional way to set up side mirrors seems to be so that you can see down the side of your car on either end. However, if you do this you'll notice your side door mirrors overlap hugely with what your rearview mirror shows. The best way to do it is to push them out until there's about a 1/4 overlap between your rearview mirror and your side door mirrors.

Car Talk says it best, as usual.

people who signal before changing lanes: basically encourages the car behind you on the right side to speed up to plug the gap before you can move lane thus inducing accident and is terrifying

The above isn't an excuse not to check your blind spots though. I once almost wiped out when I tried to merge onto a highway and saw nothing in my mirrors, not noticing the blazing fast pickup that was trying to overtake me before I merged.

The worst is the car a lane over from you, slightly behind, who is trying to switch into the same lane, at the same time, for the same spot.

guilty bad driving dumb kid confession: when I was a teenager I drove a totally awesome car (this) and when I would picture how the car looked going down the street I thought that it would look way more badass to be changing lanes without signaling, so I almost never signaled

my karma for this was the next car I drove was an Isuzu I-Mark, and so began a happy lifetime of signaling before changing lanes

Grimly, I think it also depends on the type of car you have

Nah, it's much simpler than that. You're manoeuvring, you check your fucking blind spot. End of story.

Isuzu I-Mark

*Googles* ... *rofls*

People who keep their hands at 10 and 2 while driving, classic or fucking terrifying?

Uh, dude, that's perfectly acceptable.

Uh, that was the point, no?

Y'know, lol sarcasm etc?

Oh uh? I guess my sinus infection has now infected my brain activity. Sorry, move along but be sure to check your blind spot ;-)

seatbelts: classic or a complete menace to life & limb?

Companion threads:

People who use windscreen wipers when it's raining, classic or fucking terrifying?
People who switch on their headlights in the dark, classic or fucking terrifying?
People who drive with their eyes open, classic or fucking terrifying?

The worst is the car a lane over from you, slightly behind, who is trying to switch into the same lane, at the same time, for the same spot.
heh i drew a nice diagram about that just then but a combination of photobucket being retarded and my work computer being slow now it's xpost but yes these situations terrify me and so always check my blind spots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/kenjuggle3/killercars.jpg

the usual rule of thumb as to where to look is to look the way you're going so since you're moving sideways, you look to the side?

xp to grimly, if i'm going at 80 on the motorway i'd like to know what speed a motorcycle would be going for it to suddenly be right beside me without having ever appeared in my mirror.

if i were feeling conciliatory i might say something like "ok fine glancing to the side makes sense, but craning yr neck right around to look behind you still spooks me right out" but damnit i'm feeling obstinate today.

btw i keep my hands at about 20 to 5. also i like to speed on windy country roads.

Have just been out in the car, yes, I look over my shoulder when changing lanes, which is more than the wee div in the pink ForTwo cutting in in front of me must have done. Is very very easy to do without crashing into the car in front, hence how I evidently have been doing it instinctively for almost 20 years without crashing, or even really noticing it being a thing.

(i usually drive with one hand on the wheel and one on the gear stick. will not be taking ledge out for a run in my car any time soon)

if you're only glancing a few times a minute then maybe not that fast? and even if the answer is really rather fast, you probably don't want to hit it if even they're driving irresponsibly, surely? unless you're claiming that they would have to be going impossibly fast.

(x-post)

tailgating 18-wheel trailer-trucks: mind-blowingly classic or completely fucking awesome

xp to grimly, if i'm going at 80 on the motorway i'd like to know what speed a motorcycle would be going for it to suddenly be right beside me without having ever appeared in my mirror

Umm ... at a guess, 100-odd, allowing for mirror-checking fallibility (see below)?

(And while you might say: "Surely I'd hear a motorbike doing a ton", the soundproofing/stereo quality/etc of many modern cars *does* have the worrying side-effect of substantially reducing audio feedback ... which why I often crank down my windows at busy/partially obscured junctions. Even though I drive an ancient Colt.)

Also: I know you're a clever chap and everything, Ledge, but you're also human (as far as I'm aware) and therefore as liable as the rest of us to -- just occasionally -- fail to check your mirrors as often as you should. The blind-spot check isn't a replacement for good mirror-checking; it's in addition to it.

"ok fine glancing to the side makes sense, but craning yr neck right around to look behind you still spooks me right out"

See -- rather like two drivers heading for the middle lane without looking properly -- we're heading for an unexpected meeting of minds here. When I did my IAM training, I got chinned about spending too long on my blind-spot check -- as I said above: two seconds is waaaay excessive -- so yes, I'd absolutely agree that people can spend far too long on it (just as someone could, theoretically, be daft enough to drive while spending all their time looking in their rear-view mirror).

But it's not so much that as your "never done it, never needed to do it" comment that wound me up.

What about my friend's friend who drived on the lines (so on two lanes) because it makes her feel more secure. HAHAHAHA (-> not really hahah I know)

ppl who brake at red lights are the most disgusting savages imo

My dad taught me never to look over my shoulder - it genuinely upset him. I use the passenger rear view mirror more often than not.

Gah, I'm meant to be working and I'm sitting here at my desk timing myself doing a full blind-spot check (100-110 degrees, maybe?) ... I make it 0.7s. Which is, what, 200 metres at 80mph? (NB: my maths could be way out there, but hey.) Hellfire, you cover more distance driving while sneezing!

Yeah, same here. He said it was pointless - not really a blind spot to speak of - and said to check the mirrors as often as possible.

How is right priority in other countries? Here it used to be that if you stopped, you lost priority. Now you keep it anyway.

(No, I don't have any intention of driving in your country, you can relax.)

i can't remember where he lives, but i feel like what ledge is advocating is slightly less appalling in the UK, where motorways have three lanes and it's illegal to overtake on the near side. that makes it easier to go all jason bourne (or think you have) and be constantly aware of all your surroundings. freeway driving in, e.g., LA is very different.

(and completely terrifying)

yeah i thought of that. although it's not so much a uk/us divide here as world v. me.

Where does ledge live again? I want to make sure I avoid the roads there.

some people do look over their shoulder in a particularly wild and terrifying way, i'll grant.

inexperienced cyclists are the worst at this. they rightly have no confidence in their ability to continue in a straight line while looking behind them, so they just don't do it (and they don't have mirrors, of course).

it's ok i'm more often a self-righteous aggressive cyclist than a reckless cocksure driver. xp.

people on the interstate who set their cruise on 70 mph and hang out in the left lane clogging up traffic for miles and miles: drawn and quartered or stoned by angry mob?

Roadrage on internet forums: classic or dud

Integral

And in the meantime, sez NME, Catatonia split up...

ledge lives on the South Bank iirc, which must at least quintuple the terror factor

ppl who brake at red lights are the most disgusting savages imo

no - ppl who slow down for green lights, thus getting me caught as they turn, are the wurst

^^^^ this

masturbating into a bottle while driving- let's discuss it.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2542450/Sex-act-at-wheel-of-speeding-Virgin-train.html

i'm just gonna savour that address a little longer before diving in.

just keep an eye on the mirrors, cars don't magically appear in your blind spot from out of nowhere .

Hahaha you clearly have never driven on the Washington, DC Beltway, in which you will experience entrances and exits on both sides of the freeway, exits and entrances that overlap each other, merges with 3 different other freeways, etc. Cars appear there like they've teleported in from outer space.

lol at Virgin trains having steering wheels

He wasn't even driving apparently, was just sitting in the back cab, and presumably not even on duty. But y'know, A GOOD STORY amirite.

A colleague allegedly wandered into his cabin mid-journey and spotted that his privates were exposed

spotted dick

Sex "act"

like he wasn't actually doing it, just acting.

ledge if you just look to the side you're not actually checking your blind spot - your blind spot is through your REAR side window i.e. mandatory to crane neck around

maybe you need some neck-limbering exercises - i suggest the classic 80s "black woman with attitude" move, you know what i'm talking about - 5 per day

man i was all conciliatory for the glancing to the side, but no way you're ever gonna get me to crane around, or feel comfortable with anyone who does. "a quick sideways glance" is what the highway code recommends.

That train driver should have known that his colleague was a whistleblower.

there is an easy solution to all of this: never change lanes

^ middle lane hog. bastard.

no I check my blind spots like normal drivers, I was just trying to be helpful

like ledge i check my mirrors constantly and i do get nervous turning my head around (undoubtedly because the only accidents i've been in were me rear-ending people in lol high school). i'll admit that if i track cars in my mirrors and see them pass me, and am sure that no one behind me moved over, i'll switch without a visual check. BUT if there is any doubt in my mind at all i absolutely do look.

rear-ending people in lol high school

this should be required reading in how to start a heavily-trafficked thread 101

There isn't a 'most popular thread' list anymore.

(near typo: There isn't a 'moist popular thread' list anymore.)

move thread to TMI

urbandictionary.com/changing+lanes+on+motorway

In my opinion, all trains should be driven manually.

suggest urban

ledge just own the fact that you are a cowardly, hazardous driver with poor instincts and then we can really start our work here

don't call me cowardly

at first i was going to be all, "wtf you drinkin ledge that's the way you drive," and then i realized, "oh wait, ledge lives in a country WHERE EVERYONE DRIVES ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD."

I only do this when it's absolutely necessary. Between the side-view and rear-view mirrors, I always have a good idea who is in the lanes on either side of me, don't drive in someone's blind-spot and try not to let anybody else do the same to me. I signal well in advance of any lane changes and only turn to check if there are a lot of lanes with lots of traffic and lots of entering/exiting the freeway.

xpost-Currently living abroad, I always think small children and dogs are driving.

xp YES! I'M NOT ALONE! HI-FIVE! HELL, HI FIFTEEN!

I have a friend who always turns to check and doesn't 'trust' her mirrors and that freaks me out more than someone who only occasionally feels the need to actually turn to check their blind spot. I think of the blind spot as something that I 'manage' by checking my mirrors assiduously.

the mirrors don't cover the blind spot, geniuses. you're supposed to look over your shoulder, quickly, before you turn. it takes like a fraction of a second. you know, like when you sneeze? y'all ever sneezed when you're driving?

fwiw I live in a place where almost nobody signals before changing lanes and are generally compleye maniacs so checking the appropriate blind-spot (every car has two) is not optional ever

xposts

I have a friend who always turns to check and doesn't 'trust' her mirrors

Yes, that's barking mad.

I think of the blind spot as something that I 'manage' by checking my mirrors assiduously

But this is ... well, let's just call it "barkingly reckless", shall we?

the mirrors don't cover the blind spot, geniuses

the blind spot is a merely moment of transition.

y'all ever sneezed when you're driving?

not every time i change lanes.

it's really not reckless!

Actually: regardless of how your friend feels about mirrors, does she still use them? Because if she does ... well, she's doing a better job of manoeuvring than you are, regardless of her "trust" issues.

man i was all conciliatory for the glancing to the side, but no way you're ever gonna get me to crane around, or feel comfortable with anyone who does. "a quick sideways glance" is what the highway code recommends.

QUA???!!??!
Just in case you've got JohnD on ignore:

If conditions are right for passing, check in your mirrors and signal your lane change. Before pulling into the left lane, glance briefly over your left shoulder, through the rear side window, to make sure no vehicle is passing you or close behind you in the left lane. Never rely on your mirrors alone when preparing to change lanes. Even properly adjusted mirrors will leave "blind spots" behind you on both sides. If a vehicle is in the blind spot, you may not see it in your mirrors. Always glance over your shoulder before changing lanes or passing.

specifically "OVER YOUR LEFT SHOULDER, THROUGH THE REAR SIDE WINDOW"
your mirrors aren't the only things that have blind spots, dude. a quick glance directly to your side can still leave a car in your eye's blind spot.

(xpost to MW, natch.)

it's really not reckless!

It really is!

best troll thread ever ledge, well done

uk highway code, 267:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069862

inserts relevant statistic about how almost everyone who srives considers themselves to be a "good driver"

Overtaking
267

Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right. You should

* check your mirrors
* take time to judge the speeds correctly
* make sure that the lane you will be joining is sufficiently clear ahead and behind
* take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area to verify the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror
* remember that traffic may be coming up behind you very quickly. Check all your mirrors carefully. Look out for motorcyclists. When it is safe to do so, signal in plenty of time, then move out
* ensure you do not cut in on the vehicle you have overtaken
* be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance

take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area
take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area

etc ... hahahaha, xpost

the highway code was an xp to fetchboy. i already know i'm goin against the grain!

a typical scenario:

"mm i feel like overtaking! what's going on behind? ok someone right behind in my lane, someone coming up on the outside, no-one behind them. well i'll let them pass. ok there they go! check mirrors again, yep that guy still right behind me, ok let's indicate and pull out."

You'd have been better linking to here, Ledge: that's some seriously shit Highway Code advice. But then the Highway Code is seriously outdated shit.

Ha, I have a friend who's actually far worse than what's being talked about. I was in a car with him driving once and after a while I told him I found it weird because I never saw him check his rearview or side mirrors. My friend told me that he didn't really check them and that after driving for a while you kind of knew whether they were other cars behind you. I was really relieved when I had to take the wheel :D

Also, I do check my blind spot but it is a glance not a 2sec stare. I can definitely see what ledge is talking about though. Some people just turn all the way around and it is fucking scary to see them looking at you for a second or two while driving at 130km/h. Also, when you learn how to drive here, you have to check all your mirrors like every 5sec or something and in a really obvious manner or otherwise the examiner will tell you that you don't check your mirrors enough ("well yeah I do check them, you're just not looking at me when I do" is not an acceptable excuse sadly), in which case the blind spot checking feels kind of too much as you've been staring at the traffic behind you for half the time.

the real enemies are ppl who travel in the breakdown lane let's not forget

the blind spot is a merely moment of transition.

????

ie if someone drove up and then hung in my blindspot for five minutes, yeah that would be a problem.

^^^^YEP

yeah, well, what happens when they do it to you and they're driving a really tiny car so you can't see them even when you look through the window, eh, eh?

there'll probably be a crash i guess

I'm not saying that I never do it, and my side-view mirror is pretty inclusive in it's view, but if you're paying attention to the lanes on either side of you before you make a lane change, you'll note which cars are where and at roughly what average speed and if you haven't noticed anyone overtake that dark SUV that's been about thirty yeards back for a quarter mile at least and they're still where they've been (relative to you) and there's little traffic, it feels left reckless on my part when I'm doing 70 down the highway to trust my rear- and side-view mirrors than to turn all the way 'round to check what is about 7 or 8 feet of space from my rear tire to several feet behind the rear bumper.

ie if someone drove up and then hung in my blindspot for five minutes, yeah that would be a problem.

People who regularly drive this blithely or ride my ass all the time would make excellent vivisection candidates in a more perfect world.

this probably fits under an SUV window:

http://urbanupdater.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/pink-panther-car-2-15-07.jpg

but it's okay because it's their fault for hanging in the blindspot, therefore no one will die

Clowns everywhere. (xposts)

lol @ just now acknowledging that ppl can in fact hang in the blindspot.

MW: yes, and the IAM would probably agree with you. However:

1) What's all this "turn all the way round" stuff? As I said above, we're talking about something that takes substantially less than a second to do. Unless you and Ledge have got massive fucking goitres or something, I'm really not sure what the big deal is. I mean, do you not blink, either?

2) Like every other male ever, I think I'm a great driver. But I'm not arrogant enough to believe that my observational skills are never less than 100%. Motorcyclists call the shoulder-check the "lifesaver", and I think that applies not just when they're doing it but when car-drivers are doing it too.

This thread = Reason #1 why I rarely if ever get into a car that I am not driving.

I would only feel safe not checking my blind spot in like parts of Nebraska and the like.

the real enemies are ppl who travel in the breakdown lane

Last time we drove up from Dublin* the hard shoulder was full of people undertaking the traffic in the real lanes! And then cutting back in suddenly into gaps barely any bigger than their vehicle! Lots of giant SUV-type things doing it, especially. STOP THAT.

(* Trying not to make it sound like "Irish people drive like this" but I've never seen it anywhere else... though that includes elsewhere in Ireland. Maybe the rules there about hard shoulders are different. Let's hope so.)

Yes, they can and if it's really busy traffic you will have to shoot a glance at the blind spot but if it's not, you can search for whatever car was to your side that you don't see anymore. I usually check the rear-view first, than the side-view then lean in closer to the side-view for a little wider view and usually find any vehicles that are hovering in the blind-spot area. What really freaks me is when I've done all of that and only find them by glancing over my shoulder since the chances of anybody staying invisibly in my blind spot for enough time to check my mirrors that long (conceivably while I'm signalling as well) are slim and one time I will always glance over is if a motorcyclist has been in the adjacent lane 'cause they are small, very nimble and any accident is likely to be catastrophic.

1) What's all this "turn all the way round" stuff? As I said above, we're talking about something that takes substantially less than a second to do.

maybe it's a problem if your nose and right underneath the car in front's rear bumper.. otherwise i can't see how if you're about to change lanes, how it's more important to ensure that the car in front that you've been looking at that you'll be driving away from is still there, to the point that you can't take your eye off it to check what is going on in the bit you're imminently moving into.

ledge you are insane

I guess, on reflection, that I actually do glance quickly a lot before actually making the lane change. What bugs me is people who don't have enough of a mental map of what's behind them that they actually have to really look FOR some thing in the blind spot. I just check to confirm my belief, based on paying attention to my mirrors, that there isn't anything.

I just check to confirm my belief, based on paying attention to my mirrors, that there isn't anything

*Cheers wildly*

And shit, yes, you're absolutely right: it should be a confirmatory rather than exploratory check if you've been using your mirrors properly up until that point. But I don't think that makes it any less vital.

Checking blind spot (briefly!) every time you intend to change lanes is the only way to make absolutely certain that you know what is ALL around you. Motorcycles (who can appear out of nowhere) and are about to pass you, but prevented from doing so, momentarily, by slower overtaking drivers can hang in your blind spot.

My driving instructor had me park outside a house, perpendicular to a driveway. He then asked me, using mirrors and eyes (but without moving my head) where the caravan was. There wasn't one. There absolutely wasn't.

Except there was. It was parked in the drive. Showing yme just how much of an angle the blind spot slices out of your vision.

Play it safe because of the stakes etc

it's not about your vorsprung durch technik you know, etc

i always check the blind spot, it takes half a second. it's usually necessary for keeping an eye on drivers merging into the same lane as me from the other side and slightly behind, and also those motorcyclists that sneak up between cars. on another subject, i think the california law that allows motorcycles to drive between cars is lunacy.

you would think, if my technique was as dangerously insane as y'all make it out to be, that i would have had a hell of a lot more accidents than, er, none. but, there has been some reasonable argument here, so, mostly for the sake of motorcylists, i will experiment with making brief sideways (not behind) confirmatory (not exploratory) glances.

Dear Ledge,

Thanks for not killing us!

love

everyone else on the road

accident free since 1990

not counting that one time i drove into a mini roundabout by st andrews old course at 1am.

being accident free isn't really proof of you being a good driver. When I was young my best friend's dad used to drive at 60 miles an hour down winding residential roads, do handbreak turns, go over 100 on the motorway, drink drive etc. He never had an accident either.

i was driving on 95 once and TWO different cars on my right pulled into my lane nearly smacking into me. neither one did the shoulder glance before they starting pulling into my lane.

ok, accident and "being honked and flashed by someone in my blind spot who i just cut up" free since 1990.

not getting into an accident doesn't make you a good driver wtf

honestly i was so scared both times that i was about to die a horrific death i didn't honk or flash my lights

"I've never gotten an STD before, who needs condoms?"

^ false analogy

"i've never gotten someone pregnant before, who needs condoms?"

"I've never had food poisoning before, let's eat this week-old salmon salad"

people who look over their shoulder to check their blind spot when changing lanes in an orgy

"i've never taken a logic class before, let's start constructing wild parodies of someone's argument"

Cue rear-ended joke...

xp, obv.

has anyone ever driven on the autobahn? how fast do people actually go when there is no limit?

Clarkson's been on top gear doing 160mph. I've been on a bus on the autobahn. We seemed to be doing a 'normal' speed. Most of the traffic was too. A fair bit of it's got speed limits now I think...

xpost

Stet would be the dude to answer that one. Hang on, let's see if I can summon him ...

ledge you tried to assert that if your driving practices were unsafe then you would have had an accident before now, so wtf how are you fronting abt logic

http://daz.com/img/00/00/00/3634.jpg

"caek, your question is paradoxical"

Was in an old Vauxhall Astra all the way across Germany in the '90s - on the unrestricted sections of A-bahn we tended to do around 85mph (it rattled like crazy above 90). BMWs and Audis flying past us.

i asserted that if they were as unsafe as you all made them out to be then yes i would more than likely have had an accident before now, blithely changing lanes without ever having a clue what's in my blind spot.

http://www.prometheusbooks.com/images/anenquiry.jpg

On the autobahn It's generally about 85-odd mph, which seems to be yr average motorway driver's sweet spot here as well. But you don't get many of the 50mph potterers we have here, and you will also get a noticeable amount cruising at 110-120mph. (Note that 80mph is the "recommended" speed limit on the autobahn, and you can get insurance and police hassles if you crash going faster than that).

The really terrifying thing is the caners doing 155+mph -- those fuckers will appear out of nowhere even if you're checking your mirrors. You'd be nuts not to check over yr shoulder before pulling out on the a-bahn

dude can you really not glance over your shoulder w/o veering all over the place?

Who will be the first to nail hypermilers to the wall?

thanks. totally psyched about moving to munich now! i am going to die it's going to be awesome.

Who will be the first to nail hypermilers to the wall?

Oh no HOOS will be missed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8159096.stm

That's the other thing about the autobahn: some of it is ancient and two-lane. So you get cars doing 150mph on what's basically a dual carriageway. You'll be thundering along, and then there's a big bastard wide truck, and you then have to pull out without being whapped by someone going even faster in the outside lane *and* get past in a tiny narrow space between the truck and the verge, at ludicrous speed. Tense!

whoa at that video

a motorway crash involving 259 cars

!

I've done better in Burnout 3.

Any LA freeway drivers up in here? You HAVE to check your mirrors when driving on these roads of potential death. Between the rented trucks, the scared drivers driving overpowered SUVs, the asshole in the Corvette or Porsche who won't yield for ANYONE because he paid too much for his car to do so, the idiots driving "tuned" hatchbacks who go in and out of lanes like Josh Brolin, and the fact that we have some of the worst traffic in the world (although, as an aside, you could not pay me any amount of money to drive in Beijing. Place is CRAZY.), you have to check your blind spot.

I'm betting each check takes less than a half second, and you should NEVER check unless you're going to change lanes, and the dude in front of you is at least two car lengths ahead of you.

I've driven on the Autobahn, from Frankfurt into Darmstadt and Heidelberg and thereabouts, and I was usually doing about 85-90 mph. And getting passed quite often.

is there much of a political movement to get a speed limit in germany?

only a terrible driver has any trouble checking their blind spot without it being a dangerous maneuver.

^^^^^^^ this.

I (used to) almost always check, but one of the handfull of times I didn't, there was a dude who had recently merged onto the expressway and, though he was far back when I checked my mirror, he must've been going about 100 cause I got the honk and nearly hit him as he whizzed by.
ALWAYS CHECK EVEN WHEN YOU "KNOW FOR SURE", KIDS.

WTF if you don't do this, you don't actually know how to drive

if you're in a tight spot and dont want to turn around, you can lean forward (almost chest to steering wheel) and check your sideview mirror, this gives you a decent view of the blind spot too.

^^^

fwiw I live in a place where almost nobody signals before changing lanes and are generally compleye maniacs so checking the appropriate blind-spot (every car has two) is not optional ever

seriously - Rhode Island and Mass. drivers scared the shit out of me ... and I'm a Californian.

there is no RI equivalent term to "Masshole" tho, even tho RI drivers are categorically worse imo

other drivers generally horrify me completely, i never understand what is going through the minds of people who tailgate, dart in and out of traffic at 20mph faster than everyone else, drive on the shoulder, apply makeup, read screenplays, use their iphone, or eat a sandwich while driving. those are the sorts of drivers who can also drift into your blind spot from another lane.

there is no RI equivalent term to "Masshole" tho

I think my ex referred to the RI bad drivers as "Choad Islanders" ...

... and then there were the Connecticunts ...

seriously - Rhode Island and Mass. drivers scared the shit out of me ... and I'm a Californian.

F-in' A. Motherfuckers need to stop their small state nonsense.

seriously - Rhode Island and Mass. drivers scared the shit out of me ... and I'm a Californian.

Agreed. It's not really driving they're doing out there - more like random projectile ballistics.

For the record, I *always* glance over my shoulder before changing lanes. Ledge can go be terrified.

imo the really freaky thing about driving in Mass. is the narrowness of the roads and lack of any runoff space. big trees are right there!

(all the more reason to check your blind spot)

they have too many onramps and offramps in too short a distance ... and shoulders are rare.

i have driven la freeways and they are in worse condition than any road in ma imo (and i have driven every road in ma pretty much)

imo the really freaky thing about driving in Mass. is the narrowness of the roads

hahahahaha you think your lanes are narrow. should check out the streets in my town. and it's sometimes a two direction street. you basically have to be aware of oncoming traffic - yeah yeah you always have to - so you can basically stand still at the side so you can let the other pass by. there's also cyclists to think of... who sometimes cycle side by side or even swing wildly from one end to the next. then there's tourists standing in the m iddle of the fucking street taking pics. so you gotta stand still and basically wait till they decide to walk on the pavement. this city ain't built for traffic basically.

i have driven la freeways and they are in worse condition than any road in ma imo (and i have driven every road in ma pretty much)

I find this hard to be true on several levels. What freeways have you been on out here? What, in your mind, constitutes worse condition?

i have my side mirrors angled to show the blind spot but i still give a quick turn-and-looksie whenever i'm changin lanes

i see that u guys are talkin bout driving in MA - i hope rotaries have been brought up

i don't know which ones but i was out there last summer and did a bunch of driving in/around l.a. the freeways were all horrifically marked (so were the freeway entrances) and the paving was really chewed up and shitty.

rotaries are not a big deal imo

yeah there's some shitty paving + some merge lanes that seem to have been planned with the intent of causing accidents (the 110 to the 101 north ramp, the 110 south/6th st road with the insane onramp that merges w/o warning, the 110 exit and onramps between the 5 freeway and pasadena)

my problem w/the show 24 is that every season there should be at least 3 consecutive episodes showing jack stuck in traffic on the 405~

his anger comes from road rage not from the death of his wife

my problem w/the show 24 is that every season there should be at least 3 consecutive episodes showing jack stuck in traffic on the 405~

Truth Bomb, LA Rush Hour edition.

I've often contemplated the worst video games ever created, and one made after a typical 405 rush hour would be one of them.

haha, that reminds me of the funniest thing i ever saw on Family Guy: Peter playing a game at the arcade called "Stuck Behind a Bus"

you guys know you can tilt your side-view mirrors so that you can see in them what's in your blindspot right?

i have my side mirrors angled to show the blind spot but i still give a quick turn-and-looksie whenever i'm changin lanes

― born s1ocki (cankles), Monday, July 20, 2009 4:22 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you guys know you can tilt your side-view mirrors so that you can see in them what's in your blindspot right?

― guitar hero sparklehorse (nickalicious), Monday, July 20, 2009 3:39 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

a mirror will always leave you with a blindspot. you can change where that blindspot is but it's going to be somewhere

this is mentalism, you have to check your blind spot, tho ideally I wouldn't be changing lanes when it's v busy anyway

you guys know you can tilt your side-view mirrors so that you can see in them what's in your blindspot right?

― guitar hero sparklehorse (nickalicious), Monday, July 20, 2009 4:39 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mine are adjusted to minimize the blindspot but that hasn't stopped me from having a few close calls.

ha, sorry cank...i read the first like 4 posts and just assumed the worst of this thread

do you guys see people texting when they drive? i do like every day now.

when i'm looking over my shoulder

i text while driving all the time... i just do it by touch like rutger hauer in blind fury

After driving in Boston for as long as I have I think I could probably drive anywhere. I remember being scared shitless by the drivers when I first moved up here but I'm used to it now.

i see that u guys are talkin bout driving in MA - i hope rotaries have been brought up
― born s1ocki (cankles), Monday, July 20, 2009 4:23 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark
rotaries are not a big deal imo
― north sea jazz dit weekend (call all destroyer), Monday, July 20, 2009 4:26 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark

Rotaries are the one thing about MA driving that I hate. They just make me nervous and I always doubt myself when in them. Thankfully there aren't too many where I usually find myself driving.

I also have my side mirrors tilted so I can see the blind spot but still do the turn thing if only out of habit.

CAD - the first time I ever drove in Boston was when I was visiting friends who lived on Comm Ave. I remember being so confused and nervous about the weird parking lane thing that I was shaking when I finally parked the car.

I go through at least half a dozen four-way stops on a routine basis where I think, "They should just put a freakin' roundabout here."

the 110 can be a fuckin nightmare but most of the rest of LA freeways are pretty great imo

Also, in general this: other drivers generally horrify me completely

I love driving and think I'm pretty good at it but am pretty consistently horrified but what I see other ppl doing out there.

Is a rotary just a roundabout, or is this some other weird thing?

(Just realised I only saw one tiny roundabout when I was in Florida, they don't seem to be much of a thing)

Yeah rotary = roundabout. In general they aren't really common in the US and I learned to drive in NY were there are virtually none but here in MA there are tons.

do you guys see people texting when they drive? i do like every day now.

Yes! Its gotten ridiculous. Last week there were three separate times when I was stuck beyond some jackass with his cell phone right in front of his face, swerving all over the road. I'm all for any technology that means your cell phone is disabled as soon as you turn the ignition. Convenience, my ass. You want to talk or text? Pull the fuck over.

Blind spot checking is classic, but in certain contexts of course it carries its own risks, i.e. if you're driving so fast and so close to the car in front of you that taking eyes off it even for a millisecond is its own kind of Russian Roulette.

I tend to get more irate with people who don't understand roundabouts than any other incidence of bad driving. Fuck's sake, people, if someone gets on it further round than you and is heading towards you and not indicating to turn down the road you're coming out of, don't pull out in front of them. It's not complicated, yet I meet at least one person a day who can't do this and cuts me up at a roundabout.

It's actually illegal to use a cell phone while driving in California, but I regularly see people doing this ... on the SF Bay Bridge ... during commute hours. But then I'm one of those people that gets nervous when I see a car constantly doing the speed up, brake, speed up brake thing outside of stop-and-go traffic.

They tried to put roundabout/rotaries here in a few places, but people kept just driving straight across them.

x-posts - Ailsa EXACTLY but there are SO many ppl who just don't know what to do in them and that's what makes me nervous - those guys!

the 110 exit and onramps between the 5 freeway and pasadena

i love the 110 (like, genuinely enjoy negotiating northbound rush hour traffic on it nearly everyday) but these are insane. lets see exiting/entering a blind corner death derby @ 5mph if the model T could do it so can you!

Its illegal in Chicago too, but I've never seen nor heard of anyone actually getting pulled over for it.
(x-posts)

you guys know you can tilt your side-view mirrors so that you can see in them what's in your blindspot right?

As Goole says: there's always going to be a blind spot somewhere. And surely a wing mirror should ideally be showing as wide a field of vision as possible? (NB: I drive a car old enough not to have the extra wide-angle tip thing on the mirrors. Although new enough that at least I can adjust them from inside.)

Not sure about the US, but didn't wing mirrors only become mandatory in the UK in the mid-1970s? (And even then, it was only a driver's side one you needed ...)

i'm surprised that in the 21st century that cars still only rely on having wing mirrors, rather than those radar things that they have in goldeneye

the 110 between pasadena and downtown blew my mind the first time i was driven down it. it is crazy. i can't think of any road like it in the UK.

and yeah, the driving surfaces of la freeways are in worse condition than almost any i have ever seen.

i don't drive enough to be sure about this, but basic optics tells you that if your wing mirror is convex (which they are) then there is not necessarily a blind spot. downside of a strongly convex mirror is it's difficult to judge distances.

So no one has spot mirrors? The little round or square mirrors you put on your existing mirrors, like trucks have? They're the only reason I didn't accidentally kill someone while I was learning to drive.

I failed my driving test for doing exactly what Ailsa describes. :-(

as a dedicated London cyclist though I couldn't imagine not checking my behind me at least three or four times a minute. not too often pedalling along a motorway though obv.

Is quite right that you failed then, imagine being let loose in a car when you can't do it right :-)

clearly they need to make LA freeways into tollways. Surface streets in Chicago are horrendous, but the tollways are in pretty good shape in general. (tongue in cheek recommendation)

xxxp not entirely convex in practice (for instance my mirror housing encloses and cuts off part of the angle of the mirror) and eg. visually judging/processing if/how people are merging from far lanes with that type of mirror alone is probably empirically more distracting than just glancing over a couple more inches, if your car has reasonable sightlines.

This is something off a detour but what that's film where the Italian drivers get into a car and the first thiung they do is yank the rear view mirror off and through it out off the car?

sure, just saying that the idea there is always a blind spot, which is being repeating on this thread, is not necessarily true in practice or in theory.

what about that bit in your retina that you can't see through?

of course on some freeways, usually in slow traffic, there's the art of concealing your eye and head movements so you can catch people slipping and merge (/= "cutting people off, which i don't do ever sometimes). on the 110 this is key unless you want to add 20 minutes to your commute. for the seeming chaos, that fwy has a very subtle, regular, mostly unaggressive ebb and flow pattern that can soothe the modern motorist who takes the time to learn it :)

ahh the old "just willing to stay in this lane, fiddling with the radio, minding my own business, nothing more to see--OH LANE CHANGE"

of course on some freeways, usually in slow traffic, there's the art of concealing your eye and head movements so you can catch people slipping and merge (/= "cutting people off, which i don't do ever sometimes). on the 110 this is key unless you want to add 20 minutes to your commute. for the seeming chaos, that fwy has a very subtle, regular, mostly unaggressive ebb and flow pattern that can soothe the modern motorist who takes the time to learn it :)

Even LA drivers - my wife, for one - get freaked out by the 110 north of downtown. It is totally like capoeira with cars. I personally GREATLY prefer rush hour LA drivers to weekend freeway drivers. Dudes just don't get that its not a personal affront to have a person merge in front of you.

haha yeah weekend is hell what is that??, worse on 2pm on a saturday than monday @ 6. i love when i get the 'you cut me off' beep from a dude crawling 3 car lengths back, just die mf adn gtfo of the left lane before u do it

i sometimes switch lanes and there will be some dude a few car lengths back who sees me doing it and speeds up just to honk at me, to which i can only look in my rearview and go ¯\(°_o)/¯

worse on 2pm on a saturday than monday @ 6

I said this to my wife last night, and she was all "Really? Why?" I said "Would you rather have someone who used a particular program or application day in and day out or an occasional user try to do something for you in as efficient a manner?"

She understood, because she deals with occasional users who think they are experts all day, every day. She "works with computers."

i love when i get the 'you cut me off' beep from a dude crawling 3 car lengths back, just die mf adn gtfo of the left lane before u do it

I just give them a "Thanks!" wave and continue on, less impeded than before.

oh yeah 'thanks' (and i say it to myself also, loudly haha, which is automatically freighted with the appropriate sarcasm without me having to be sarcastic about it) is mandatory whether or not they actually meant to let you in, as long as they're not being super assholes

aside from choking on bus fumes i'd love to try to 'learn' even more lawless motorways like the ones in guatemala city and such, i'm sure there's a code to crack. i'm sure traffic nerddom pays just like anything else.

I actually find drivers in countries which have only developed a car culture recently to be much better than most US drivers. Probably because they all got on the road at once and had to learn very quickly how to deal with each other, instead of slowly being grafted in to an established framework like in the US. They're much, much, much more aware of their surroundings than US drivers tend to be.

X-post - see below.

i'm sure traffic nerddom pays just like anything else.

Dude, totally.

I found myself just watching traffic in Beijing for like an hour one day. I found a seat on some stairs above one of the busiest intersections in the city, and just watched. Amazingly "disorganized," but I didn't see a single accident while I watched. Ergo, there must have been a pattern of some sort.

I did hear a LOT of horns, however, so they probably weren't checking their blind spots too well.

in guat city, esp. at night, you beep your horn a few times as you approach a red light (w/o slowing down) so as to alert any possible cross traffic that you are about to run the red light. i've heard costa rica is an order of magnitude more 'liberal' than this even

"look hon, it's like a city full of ambulances!"

This whole thread is why I dont drive and never will.

horn-honking in india is amazing. as far as i could tell it means everything. get out of my way, i am here, what is up?, let's party, etc. you just constantly beep your horn whenever a thought enters your head.

xp because you need to be aware of what's happening around you? that goes for the sidewalk too.

xp i love that! horn honking is still such an 'event' in l.a., being a quasi-traffic offense, surely there's some obv. point about urban american alienation to be made from this

"hold on marge, i have an ace up my sleeve" in traffic is definitely my most utilised simpson's line.

I think for the rest of the world honking your horn means "Hello! I'm here! Beware!"

India is great for horns -- I love the "horn please!" you get on the back of trucks, but Cairo is insane for beeping. It seems to mean "I am driving".

There are various studies showing that fewer bits of road furniture and less explicitly marked lanes improve driving, and that must come into play there. I've seen five lanes of traffic on a road obviously built for three, and it all seems to work.

CAD - the first time I ever drove in Boston was when I was visiting friends who lived on Comm Ave. I remember being so confused and nervous about the weird parking lane thing that I was shaking when I finally parked the car.

― (sorry for boob) (ENBB), Monday, July 20, 2009 5:26 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

hahahah the parking lane! i believe it's called the "local" part of the road or something in official parlance. i have never been able to describe to friends or cab drivers what it is and when you should turn on to it without a lot of gesturing and "no...wait...TURN HERE! YES, HERE!"

LOL exactly. I remember my friend had given me these elaborate directions tried to describe it and was like just BE CAREFUL. I didn't really get it until I turned onto Comm from Washington St. and was like . . . WTF?! Ahhhh, Boston.

This is something off a detour but what that's film where the Italian drivers get into a car and the first thiung they do is yank the rear view mirror off and through it out off the car?

The Gumball Rally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8FnNiplNTg

xp i should say tho--i <3 the parking lane. most days it's where i park!

Yeah, it's great when you can find a spot!! I lived in Allston/Brighton for years and can't tell you how many nights I got home after like 10 and spent around an hour or so looking for a spot.

Oh, I did have NY plates at the time and couldn't get a resident sticker so that probably had something to do with it.

yeah not having a res sticker was no fun

people in the south are such unbelievable pussies about honking. every time it's used it's like being slapped in the face with a white glove to them.

Drive without checking your blind spots in Houston,TX and you'll be dead within a week.

I learned how to drive in Houston. My at the time step father was my instuctor. He was raving drunk, chain smoking, and yelling at me every mile. CHECK YOUR BLIND SPOT, being one of the things he would tell at me.

horn honking is still such an 'event' in l.a., being a quasi-traffic offense

Totally, 100% OTM. In fact, on the way home from the office, I pulled up next to this gleaming white Range Rover that had what looked like a cracked side wall on its back passenger side tire. Like, one good pothole away from a blowout. I beeped to get the driver's attention. Then I beeped again. The driver looked more than mildly annoyed, and grew more so when I told them that their tire looked dangerous.

I'm only being self-interested. Your 5000 lb car at 70mph+ would fuck up my little car. So, get your shit sorted, yo.

At the time I imagined every other driver was raving drunk, chain smoking, and yelling at the top of their lungs. This was due to the fact of him telling me, "These people on the freeway are crazy, all of them Mad. Now you have to be just as crazy as them to survive out here"

Jacob, if you ever make it out to LA, I'm driving. Soberly.

Do not drive in Istanbul!

We got a taxi one morning, and the freeway into the city is the usual 'choked', so the cab drove over the central reservation and drove down the opposite side of the road!

This is actually totally permitted, there is no outgoing traffic at this time, but whoa! if you don't know.

Plus, all taxis drive about 1 foot off the bumber of the car in front, even (especially) if the speed is sixty. But the driver has total concentration and they don't crash (it seems).

Still, there was always a scramble to not ride in the front!

because you need to be aware of what's happening around you? that goes for the sidewalk too.

!??! yes because thats clearly all the thread has been talking about for the last 465453 posts, and not insane drivers who dont look, insane drivers full stop in India/Italy/wherever, odd service roads, people who have no clue etc etc... anyway.

PS sorry ledge i was not implying you are insane ;)

the polio vaccine: classic or fucking terrifying?

doesn't it give you downs syndrome or something?

Thanks to this thread, something I've done on autopilot for 16 years (glancing over my shoulder to check a blind spot) has become a horribly self conscious act. I was driving home last night and every lane change I was like "LOOK AT ME I AM TURNING MY HEAD SLIGHTLY TO LOOK FOR CARS (THANKS LEDGE)!"

autopilot, sounds dangerous. glad i'm keeping you in the moment.

Thing is though, now that I'm consciously doing it it's probably taking longer and therefore edging towards your "fucking terrifying" category.

haha i did that too last night. and then i tried deliberately not looking and realised that there's no way i'm going to not check.

I'm now pretty sure that if I get killed on my bike on the way home tonight, it'll either be Ken crashing into me from behind as he blind-spot gazes, or Ledge from the side as he changes lanes.

the name of this thread bothered me ALL DAY yesterday, so it was a relief to finally click on it this morning and be reassured that the who started it was in some insane minority

I haven't ever had a collision on the highway, but I've had lots of near misses where I didn't properly check my blind spot while changing lanes. Makes me think it's probably a good idea....

It's particularly important to check your blind spot here in Austin, TX because a left turn signal on the highway apparently is an indicator to people driving in the left lane to speed up as much as possible so they can get by you before you have a chance to get in front of them.

People really seem to hate it when a car gets in front of them here, no matter what the circumstances. My favorite obnoxious move is when another car gets in front of you driving well below the speed limit. You switch lanes to pass as you are going much faster than the car in front. But once you are in front of them, they are so upset that they then have to pass you and re-commence driving really slowly in front of you again.

^^^
not gonna lie, I have done this to ppl for lolz

You are contributing to my impending brain aneurysm.

I've never driven in TX fwiw so it's not me who is killing you slowly

Can't wait to see you try it in Texas, though.

I try not to do that where ppl are likely to shoot at me.

Seriously, I have license plate numbers memorized from ten years ago of people who did this to me.

I don't know what the hell I'll do if I ever spot one (of the two or three), but they'll be glad I don't own a gun.

the only time i have ever been sideswiped (no harm done) was in austin

Texas is the home of nighttime speed limits, and people who signal one way and turn another.

There are some people in NOLA who do shit like hang out in your blind spot for 5 minutes to try to provoke a crash so they can get a lawsuit out of it.

Another bad habit of Austin drivers:

Most of our highways have access roads alongside of them. The far-left lane is usually reserved for getting on and off the highway. I can't count the number of times I've signalled to get into the left lane so I could get on the highway and some jackass getting off of the highway insists on passing me first before moving into the right lane.

It's a move that serves no purpose other than to drive me crazy and make it harder for me to get on the highway. It would be every bit as easy and not a bit slower to move over to the right as you get off the highway and allow people getting on to move over to the left.

And my last one:

People who insist on passing in merging lanes. When two lanes merge, common driving manners tend to dictate that everyone merge together in an orderly fashion, usually one from the right, then one from the left, and so on.

But then there are the people who absolutely have to pass you before the lanes become one. More often than not, they'll end up passing when the lanes have already merged. In other words, they'll pass you within a single (slightly wider) lane.

I guess the common thread in all of these stories is that there are lots of people on the road who will go to great lengths to cause confusion and chaos on the road just so they don't have to suffer the unbearable, psyche-crushing indignity of driving behind another car even for the briefest amount of time.

given the way some people drive, can you blame them?

What, other people drive badly, so you should too?

Re: passing in brakedown lanes, especially during heavy traffic, I have to say I secretly admire the dudes who will pull halfway into the breakdown lane with the sole intent of preventing anyone from passing. One type of passive-aggression I can endorse!

first time glance at this thread, so stoked to skim and learn that ledge (OP) was in the uk. good luk 2 u dude.

Re: passing in brakedown lanes, especially during heavy traffic, I have to say I secretly admire the dudes who will pull halfway into the breakdown lane with the sole intent of preventing anyone from passing. One type of passive-aggression I can endorse!

I've been known to do this in the past. But a few weeks ago I saw another guy pull this and the impatient asshole actually rammed him(!) to get around.

i totally pull the breakdown lane blocking maneuver, but i'm cautious about which cars i block. if it's a BMW coming up behind, i block with joy. if it's a beater, i gtfo of the way.

xxxpost to elmo - secretly? I give those dudes thumbs ups whenever i get the chance!

also, I have a secret antidote to road rage (which might actually just work for me):
whenever anyone does something really dickish just yell "happy birthday" and try to convince yourself that it's their birthday so they can do whatever they want on their special day. doesn't really work on your own birthday though.

Blocking people like that is pretty much putting yourself in harm's way just to make a point. Trying to teach another driver a lesson on the road is almost never a good idea.

It doesn't matter about the quality of the other cars:

BMW = I can afford the collision, but can you afford the lawsuit?
Beater = I don't have insurance, so good luck trying to pay for the damage I'm about to do to your car.

Actually I look and see if its a dude by himself or if he has a wife and kids in the car. In the latter cases, probably way less likely to willingly get into an accident.

if a car rear ends you the collision would be their fault, no?

My mood while driving would be greatly improved if I was allowed to put rocket launchers on my car. In fact, I usually quell road rage by imagining cars blowing up in front of me when I'm driving.

BTW I am also one of those annoying people who can't STAND to have other cars in front of him but I try not to weave in and out of traffic to cut everyone off to the front of the pack.

if a car rear ends you the collision would be their fault, no?

Yeah, but if its an uninsured driver, doesn't matter. You won't get a penny out of them for your repairs. If its some rich asshole, he'll hire a lawyer good enough to put the fault on you being in the breakdown lane in the first place.

If another driver is safe and respectful and puts on a turn signal before merging into an appropriately-sized space in front of my car, there's no problem at all. This is how traffic is supposed to work.

However, if they barge into a small space with no signal and cause me to have to panic brake to avoid rear-ending them, simultaneously increasing the chances of any drivers behind me colliding with my rear bumper, then they can die in a fire.

eh fuckit, i'll block the bastard anyway. dudes like that could end up causing a big accident with someone who has to pull off and doesn't see them coming, so they can be pissed at me if they want and rich dudes can't buy their way out of that sort of thing imo.

coda

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/07/jerks-making-your-commute-a-little-better.html

ok how the fuck do you merge onto a highway without doing this? fastiduously checking your mirrors for the previous X amount of time is irrelevant, since you're entering a whole new traffic stream.

blind spots on the highway freak me out so much. why don't expensive cars have video cameras/crazy set of mirrors that get rid of your blind spot???

(maybe they do. I don't know anything about what is inside expensive cars.)

expensive cars ought to be able to merge for you, like in Minority Report

it seems weird that the blind spot is this problem that we just accept is gonna exist forever, when it can easily be defeated with video cameras/ crazy set of mirrors

That article shows just another reason I don't live in LA.

not checking your blindspot = classic, if your idea of classicness is the mangly death of yourself and others in a firey wreck.

i think some people are of the opinion IRL that if they're "ahead" of you it's their right to merge into your lane, even if technically you are slightly "next" to them as well.

god the new volvo (or is it lexus?) stops for you so you dont have to watch anything

http://www.smartmotorist.com/images/auto_mirror/mirrorsani3.gif

I think of this thread often when I drive. mostly afraid that Alfred's dad is judging me when I make the cursory glance over my shoulder

What a weird OP, it's scary think that there are drivers that DON'T do this

it was def weird to me the first time I drove a U-Haul, realizing I didn't have to do that.

I failed to check my blind spot yesterday and killed the entire city of Bithlow as their bus swerved into the ocean and all were eaten by alligators. always check your blind spot

i can't believe how stupid this thread is. why would you not do this. but lol at the idea of looking sideways for two entire seconds!

i picture thread-starter looking out rear side window for 2 seconds, looking through windshield to see he's about to rear-end another vehicle, and letting out a HOmer Simpson scream

this thread kills me still

I think about it when driving sometimes! Especially when I do a quick glance over the shoulder when changing lanes

I don’t drive very often but am renting a car this week. And when I signal to change it beep beep beeps at me if there is something close to my blind spot. It’s useful.

My new car has lots of cameras and sensors that emit loud beeping noises whenever another vehicle gets within 10 feet of it.

New cars are very safety-oriented, I am learning. My car (a 2024 Subaru Crosstrek) will not move if my seat belt's not fastened.

I mostly ride old honda motorbikes so my head is swiveling all over the place, the mirrors are the size of nickels

Only been driving for five years but pretty sure the blindspot checking was for when you were pulling out into traffic, as the flow is faster to your right and slower to your left it's more a question of watching all of your mirrors for 10-20 seconds, would be very unlikely for a car to sit in your blind spot that whole time, especially as you pick up speed when yr overtaking.

After 30+ years driving on freeways during crowded commutes I have learned that even if you turn your side-view mirrors out slightly to better see your blind spots (which I do), you have to look briefly over your shoulder when changing lanes to make sure someone is not coming up on your side

I drove a cargo van recently and was surprised how small the blind spots are. Really huge mirrors.

never saw this thead before, was astonished that nothing else even had time to be considered in 2009 afaict, and that ppl didn’t just immed say “what a mad post really” and ignore it

Also colorado is now 65% rotaries and people didn’t seem to know the term “rotary” until now and looked at me as tho i invented a word. i grew up adjacent or in mass or with mass people and was like “yeah what are u mental? it’s like a… a traffic circle.”

or a roundabout

my favourite thread, I think about it every time i don't check over my shoulder when changing lanes because I've been checking my mirrors and am well aware that my blind spot is clear!

Absolutely commend your commitment to being brazenly wrong about this Ledge. Not even being sarcastic about it. You keep checking those mirrors man, the rest of us salute you 🫡

(Please check your blind spots people)

I was reminded that at the driving exam they make you look twice, supposedly once before indicating and again before moving, and I was like "who checks twice?".

Always drive fast enough that you’re the one doing the passing. Then no one can come up in your blind spot and you don’t really even need your mirrors.

its really, really easy for someone to be in your blindspot for an extended period of time

I just change lanes while staring forward and wait for the honk. Then I politely wave as they pull back on to the road

This thread and the one where someone said they eat the sticker on an apple will live forever in my head

its really, really easy for someone to be in your blindspot for an extended period of time

not if there's a constant flow of traffic past you in the faster lane.

xp link me pls

Where do you live ledge, apparently you don’t have absolute lunatics on the road like us ‘mericans.

Here in DC if the roads aren’t jammed it’s Mad Max out here and you’ll likely see a guy strapped to a war machine playing a flamethrower/guitar.

people intentionally hang in the blind spot here so that you can't pass them. it's a total pass-agg thing.

uk so you always pass on the right, never (or rarely) on the left. the worst & most frequent crime over here is hogging the middle lane when there's heaps of space in the left.

“the” middle lane?

I agree that when there’s like 5 other cars on the road you don’t really need to worry about checking your blind spot so much

Well here we pass in any damn lane, exit lanes, speed up lanes, the shoulder, the median, etc.

And everyone drives three ton trucks that will obliterate my Hyundai to their desk jobs

the” middle lane?

there are some four or five lane motorway sections here, but not many.

the real treasure are the friends we ran over on the way to work

we should ask a bird this question

classic

hogging the middle lane

=sensible driving surely? You're not in the way of drivers getting onto the road at the inside lane, and anyone wanting to pass can do so on the outside.

correct

xp

i interviewed one local bird

As a bird, I rely heavily on my sharp vision and quick reflexes to navigate the world. From my perspective, I think drivers checking their blind spot by looking over their shoulder makes a lot of sense, and here's why:

Expanded Awareness: When I'm zipping around flowers and trees, I constantly turn my head to get a full view of my surroundings. My peripheral vision and quick head movements help me avoid obstacles and spot predators. Similarly, drivers looking over their shoulder get a wider field of view, helping them see areas that mirrors might miss. This can prevent accidents, much like how I avoid bumping into leaves or branches.

Depth Perception: Just like I gauge distances to flowers or feeders by moving my head, turning your head while driving gives better depth perception. This can help drivers accurately judge the distance and speed of vehicles in their blind spot, making lane changes safer.

Mirrors Have Limitations: Even the best mirrors can't show everything. There are always small blind spots that can hide a car, just like how leaves can obscure my view of a flower. By looking over their shoulder, drivers can make sure they're not missing anything, just as I always double-check before darting forward.

Human Nature: While mirrors are helpful, human brains process information more effectively with direct visual confirmation. Turning your head and using your natural field of vision is like my instinct to survey my environment—it’s built into us for safety and survival. i like to eat worms and shit on people from above!

i also think about this thread a lot! i rely on mirrors most of the time but every once in a while ya gotta glance imo

Isn't/wasn't ledge a big cyclist iirc? Cyclists are experts at turning their head without jerking the wheel off course, they do it all the time.

i interviewed one local bird

― z_tbd

we prefer to be called "women" these days

=sensible driving surely? You're not in the way of drivers getting onto the road at the inside lane, and anyone wanting to pass can do so on the outside.

it is actively discouraged by the UK gov as it causes congestion. you can merge into the middle lane when a slip road comes up.

Isn't/wasn't ledge a big cyclist iirc

I is/was.

xp otm

everything to the right is an overtaking lane

I see everyone has already covered the “ftlog never drive in the US, you will die” angle

As mentioned passim I recently passed my motorcycle test. Did I mention that I recently passed my motorcycle test? I did. I recently passed my motorcycle test. I had six minors. Many, many years ago I would have followed that with "and their parents were all unawares", but you aren't allowed to make that kind of joke any more. Because an awful lot of families in Wales lost their livelihoods, and the police response was totally disproportionate.

One of the things the instructor hammered into me was The Lifesaver. When you pull away you should do a lifesaver, and preferably a full over-the-shoulder check. When you change lanes, do a lifesaver. Coming off a roundabout? Do a lifesaver. Every time you change position on the road you should do a lifesaver. A mirror check is fine if you're just pulling forward in traffic from a stop, but otherwise your head should be darting left and right like Dana Carvey in the "Turtle Club" scene from The Master of Disguise. You have to be really turtly to be a member of the turtle club. Really turtly.

I remember pooh-poohing lifesavers. What does the instructor know? What does he know of postmodernism? How many signed copies of Fox Base Alpha does he own? And on a serious level I remember thinking (as the OP points out) that there's a danger I'm going to be smash into something directly in front of me because I was looking backwards. And of course when you turn your head, you naturally start to steer in that direction, which is potentially disastrous.

But about a week after passing my test I went to switch lanes, all casual-like, and - yikes! - there was a car there. It came from nowhere. Luckily I paused before actually changing lanes, but if I hadn't I would be on a spinal ward somewhere typing this with my nose.

Or I would be typing it by blinking my eyes. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference, because you can't see my fingers flashing over the keyboard. But the point still stands. It's a lot easier to participate in dialogue on the internet if you have full control of your limbs, plus a good keyboard, a big screen, a fast computer that can open lots of tabs. Otherwise you're reduced to the level of people who surf the internet on their mobile phones. One-word replies. AI-generated replies. Canned replies.

No, without the use of my fingers I would be unable to - or more likely unwilling to - post 500-word replies to threads on Ilxor about traffic. And the world would be a poorer place. A little madder, a little sadder. And that! That.

So on my two 120 mile drives this weekend I did check my blind spot when merging on to the motorway, and when changing lanes if the traffic was particularly busy. Otherwise had no problem as usual using just my mirrors to keep track of what was behind me and passing me.

Alright I can see how this would be necessary if I were on a multi lane highway with passing allowed on both sides - perhaps the most common experience! But if I'm in the middle lane in the UK and I'm looking to overtake, I can see who's behind me in my lane, I can see who's coming up on the outside, there's no danger of someone appearing in my blind spot out of nowhere.

Had a near miss a few weeks ago, when someone pulled into my lane as I was about to overtake them and only avoided collision by slamming on the anchors. I’m sure they were checking their mirrors too.

I'm sure they weren't or they'd have seen you!

i was afraid of doing shoulder checks when i was learning to drive. my trick is that i get my torso into the position for it while still looking ahead, then quickly turning my head. it might make it faster, or it might just feel faster, i don't know.

dunning Krueger effect, false traffic omniscience