White House Race Discussion Beer Poll

i like all three of these beers, but i drink red stripe the most out of any of them

some ppl i've heard comment on this think that blue moon is a "microbrew" wtf

i mean, how could you not choose rs:

recently Red Stripe began sponsoring the International Festival of Thumb Wrestling held annually in Mason City, Iowa. Red Stripe Vice President of Marketing Randolph Samuelson III was the first black man to win this festival, and it has held a special place in his heart since he broke the color barrier and won the championship in 1971.

I'll have a Red Stripe -- it's a decent, drinkable lager. I used to like Blue Moon, but there are so many other better Belgian-style whites, I don't like the orange slice, and it's brewed by Coors.

black label really should have been an option here

nb that fact seems to be made-up but would you believe it if it were about blue moon or bud??

remember catching this on late and being seriously wtf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjrv9CSOQRA

clear winner

TV late AT NIGHT

arggh

bud light is gross and a weird color

red stripe, the other two suck

I've never actually had a Red Stripe, probably because it looks like a bottle of medicine to me

Conan last night professed not to have heard of Blue Moon -- is that possible? Or was that for the benefit of the audience? Rachel Maddow helpfully described it as a "Hefeweizen, a sort of fake microbrew made by Coors."

blue moon is terrible and insulting to Belgium and its beer makers

obama's choice is based on his reputed preference for shotgunning canned beers iirc

Obama should've gone with Goose Island -- sure, most people haven't heard of it, but he could talk about how it's a hometown favorite, wants to support local beermakers instead of international conglomerates, etc. And it looks like it's recently been made available in D.C., too.

My dad, as tough as that cop, adores Blue Moon now that my tough brother in law has introduced it to him.

I still drink his scotch if asked.

I once saw a bartender convince a woman who ordered Blue Moon to try Bell's Oberon instead.

My Blue Moon phase ended 11 years ago!

blue moon is some kind of candy dessert

also why is it the only beer that you put a slice of orange in

voted red strip, it's ok. felt like challopsily repping for bud light, but, cmon, it tastes like detergent

I've seen bartenders put oranges in Tücher too.

(xpost)

2 oranges 1 tucher

Bud light is gross.
I don't drink Blue Moon anymore.
Red Stripe is okay but not anywhere near my go-to beer list.

WORST BEER SUMMIT EVER

The other week i went to a pub with some mates.
I saw people drinking this beer served with an orange slice...
What kind of beer is this?
I feel like im being jipped "flaming moe" style b/c many years ago i invented this drink which was corona served with an orange slice...

flaming moes like to glue the orange to the pint glass with a dab of vaseline.

jipped

bad show old boy

did they jew you out of your change too

i started drinking red stripe a lot this year cuz the closest bodega didnt have much in the way of options, but ill actually ride for it at this point especially compared w/ most other beers @ that price point--its actually got some weight and flavor to it which is more than i can say for bud/corona/stella/whatever else is $3-$4/bottle at the bar

i guess bud is usually cheaper but whatever

plus red stripes label is so well designed

Wasn't it The Firm that made Red Stripe cool in America? I remember all these articles in the mainstream glossies about the "exotic" beer Tom Cruise drinks.

dunno, personally I'd never heard of it prior to visiting Belize in '01 or so

Red Stripe has always been cool (runnings) in America, big reggae sunsplash aspect to this.

Me and some friends got let off faredodging on the train once because we were drinking Red Stripe and the ticket inspector was Jamaican. Also it's made by DG who do a good ginger beer as well. Although I haven't tasted either of the others I have a real affection for RS so have to vote for it, unfair or not.

Obama should have picked a can of Old Style.

I had my own solo beer summit last night and I was drinking Red Stripe. I love the bottle but the best way to drink it is out of a glass.

red stripe. nothing spectacular imo but def the best of these three. would choose red stripe >>>>>>> bud light >>> blue moon.

red stripe also has prob one of the coolest bottles/labels in beer

also i thought obama was into bud heavy

Red Stripe my fave w food, esp summer foods like GRILLED ANIMAL FLESH and spicy sauces, etc.

Obama should've gone with Goose Island -- sure, most people haven't heard of it, but he could talk about how it's a hometown favorite, wants to support local beermakers instead of international conglomerates, etc. And it looks like it's recently been made available in D.C., too.

and it's part owned by A-B anyway

Not drinking some kind of American micro is stupid imo. Think of the spin possibilities!

1. American-owned
2. Small business
3. Probably uses US-sourced ingredients
4. Shows diversity of American culture
5. Tastes better

yesterday on npr they actually corrected their reporting of obama's beer choice mid-story from bud to bud light and i briefly wondered if he's on a diet? but i guess he just acquired a taste for it during his days of mass beer consumption? i don't really have a problem with him drinking bud but bud light is weak.

yeah but it paints him as an elitist liberal snob xp

Plus Budweiser is delicious so there's that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3iVHxP8FQ

tbh three guys drinking three different beers is wack and def takes away from the authenticity of this highly inauthentic event.

Bud Light is fine after a few other drinks - it's like water!
Blue Moon is okay for about half a bottle/glass, then it's too heavy and sweet.
Red Stripe is a fine all around choice.

i had a bud light last night exactly for that reason, cr?m.

yesterday on npr they actually corrected their reporting of obama's beer choice mid-story from bud to bud light

I think Obama himself originally chose Bud, then changed his mind.

Plus Budweiser is delicious so there's that.

― Like most people my age, I am 33 (Laurel), Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Ha, I was basically waiting for you to show up.

and it's part owned by A-B anyway

Yes, I keep forgetting that.

laurel grabbed the last bottle as obama was reaching for it

red stripe, the other two suck

^^^

also that bottle shape is oddly irresistible.

It was a good sub for people who mourned Oly stubbies.

i am racist against both american lagers and light beers tbh

Red Stripe has always been cool (runnings) in America, big reggae sunsplash aspect to this.

most OTM thing on this thread, although i'm not sure how cool runnings it is outside of brooklyn/lower manhattan/those environs.

I miss Red Stripe Crucial Brew :-(

I won't say it was prevalent in the Twin Cities in the 80s but it was definitely around; I remember seeing it in high school.

Last Red Stripe I had was on the beach in North Carolina, at a wedding that involved a Jamaican dude.

My dad, who is not a big drinker, got obsessed with Red Stripe a few years ago! He bought like two cases of it when my brother and I came to visit, then got mad when we drank it (lol).

it seemed pretty obv that obama's choice was just a PR decision. and less of a 'try to win over bud lite voters' play, more a 'avoid picking something that becomes a fox news talking point'...

I voted blue moon cause I don't really like red stripe.

i associate red stripe with nyc hipster dive bars where the white people drinking it will probably be driven home by rasta cabbies.

cute bottle, good american lager:
http://www.alcoholreviews.com/uploaded_images/full-sail-session-lager-717101.jpg

i associate red stripe with nyc hipster dive bars where the white people drinking it will probably be driven home by rasta cabbies.

― hat for slashes (get bent), Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:37 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is true but dont forget that theres another huge non-white non-hipster population in nyc that drinks a lot of red stripe too!

oh wait this is actually based on something that happened? i do not pay attention to things so i was baffled by poll

also there are people not in nyc

many of them drink red stripe

look at china, for example

some chinese people even own small red books, to show their brand loyalty

where i live the jamaicans & west indian folks drink mackeson & dragon stout more than red stripe.

is the little red book on kindle?

Funny you mention China:

LONDON (Reuters) - Chinese beer Snow leapt ahead of Bud Light to become the world's biggest selling beer as China stretches its lead as the largest beer market in the world, according to provisional data from researcher Plato Logic.

Snow, which is brewed by SABMiller and its Chinese partner China Resources Enterprises Ltd, saw its 2008 sales volumes jump 19.1 percent to 61 million hectoliters putting it well ahead of Bud Light and sister brew Budweiser.

hectoliters!

this is true but dont forget that theres another huge non-white non-hipster population in nyc that drinks a lot of red stripe too!

i knoe

red stripe is pretty mediocre iirc, i don't think i've ever had a light beer and i never heard of blue moon until now.

they should do shots of jack daniel's first

i dig red stripe but bought a stale six of it the other week :(

tbh three guys drinking three different beers is wack and def takes away from the authenticity of this highly inauthentic event.

^^^^^this^^^^^

how many beers each, do you think

oh i would be SHOCKED if it was more than one

they should get a round of QUARTERS going

flip cup on the oval office desk imo

so is this thing just gonna be gates & obama trading harvard stories or what?

would be kinda cool if they put a flatscreen out there and they just say around watching the game and didn't say a word to each other

sat around

at my university we always associated Red Stripe with fratboys

xp lol brownie!

I have tried hard to have enough in the way of beer knowledge and preferences to narrow down my bar decisions, but to be honest ... beyond whole different varieties of beer I can't quite work up big opinions. Obviously I don't drink beer super-often.

Of these three I would choose between Red Stripe and Blue Moon based on temperature, environment, and how recently I'd eaten.

This is America, where the only kings we have are of rock, pop, and beer.
Obama should choose wisely...

nabisco, just choose which you would prefer right now, at this very moment, where you are

Red Stripe was what I chose - I don't drink beer at all but if I'm forced (broke at beer-only art opening) it is that or Beck's.

red stripe by a mile

Ha viceroy slow(er) work day today?

wow: normally I would have a Red Stripe, but I haven't eaten anything in a while apart from some Cheez-Its, so I think the smoothness of a Blue Moon would sit a bit better

I think Obama is going for the Latino vote w/his beer choice.

yeah it's actually one of these bud lights

http://www.ysmarko.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/Bud+&+Bud+Light+Chelada+cans+on+Ice.png

wtf is that

argh

can you imagine the snidely sneers if either obama or gates were drinking the blue moon? it's fancy. (even though it's not.) you drink it with an orange slice! so out of touch with working people!

but since it's an actual white working person drinking it, hey, it's cool.

i'd have a red stripe for sure.

there might be sneering if obama drank the blue moon. is that stuff from the USA though?

there'd be sneering if Obama drank a "micro brew" for sure. he should do a shot of jager with a coor's light back.

Pretty sure Blue Moon is American.

I guess I'd take a Red Stripe from those choices. Not a big fan of lagers or the Belgian white style.

i drink guinness, myself

i like some of those belgian beers like a hoegaarden but seem to have bad reactions to them lately, so, sticking to guinness. maybe i should go have one tonight in honor of this thing.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090730/capt.50f04f8ce6fe41be9fbbac593b55786b.obama_whre101.jpg?x=400&y=262&q=85&sig=T8wOd872608eqSlfplr5_Q--

LOL Biden finds a way...

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090730/capt.f7136e03ac8b46789f6cc7328a2a75fc.obama__dcab119.jpg?x=400&y=308&q=85&sig=1ykcjI71WoJ6B50aPABeqA--

He's just snacking away while they have an important discussion.

think anyone would have minded if Obama had opted for a delicious brew from one east Africa's holy cities of Islam?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/HararBeerLabel.jpg

what is biden drinking???

I feel super-gross saying this but photo-op-wise Biden may have been deemed necessary for racial balance

also because in a sensitive situation of inflamed passions and resentments where conciliatory words must be chosen carefully and there are vast opportunities to step in it, who you gonna call? JOE BIDEN

exactly nabisco, i thought the same thing tbh

http://www.necn.com/Boston/NECN-Extra/2009/07/30/Raw-video-Obama-meets-with/1248993233.html

He looks like the back view of popcorn.gif!

VP Biden had a non-alcoholic beer Bucklers

smart move for situations involving Biden + talking

note that Gates switched it up to a more home-towny Sam Adams!

he doesn't drink alcohol (secret muslim)

is Biden an alkie? Why would he drink a non-alcoholic beer unless Obama was worried what he might say?

he listened to the sam adams ceo interview on npr!

xpost about gates

Or maybe the four drank before the photo op!

biden doesn't drink, no real reason other than he doesn't like it?

where's hillary, she could be doing shots

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-ED902_beersu_G_20090730184038.jpg

Biden: family history of alcoholism, so never started.

they must have chained bill clinton to a radiator during this

I'm so disappointed in Biden

(xpost)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

how the hell is Obama so damn photogenic

incidentally the whole concept of this increasingly rubs me the wrong way

the fact that there are press photos of this really bugs me. if this really is about dudes chilling out then I don't want to feel like some creeper staring at them from the sidewalk.

actually i take that back, they prob invited bill but he was all "uh total sausage party dudes no way"

^^^This.

Two minute photocall? BFD.

my head is telling me i should, indeed, think about the greater implications of this, but my gut says, eh it's not that complicated, it's guys drinking beer

i bet joe the biden ate all the peanuts

incidentally the whole concept of this increasingly rubs me the wrong way

Totally agree, and I'm little embarrassed.

We can bail on it if too much because the cop suggested it first.

This kind of stupid photo op reflects poorly on Obama's purported intelligence.

If the White House had invited Gates and Crowley separately for dinner or drinks it would at least not get as much publicity as this bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwn83n1KWM

what a disaster for salty snacks

guys do you hate america or what? XD it's beer! i mean, the presidency involves thousands of photo-ops, and that's just campaigning for it. if you're going to have another you might as well have it with beer.

"i'm a wine cooler kinda gal myself"

how in the world can you admit that on camera?!

i bet keith olbermann drinks ZIMA

someone should have given biden a shirley temple

I'm curious as to what people don't like about this stunt? (other than the fact that it distracts from the health care issue)

DING DING DING

Also: you just answered your own question. It's a stunt.

I'm sure there's a part of Obama thinking, given his M.O., "Remind me why I'm doing this again...?"

i don't object - i might well be wrong on this - to a news cycle being taken up by talk about beer. the congress isn't getting health care done until after the recess & so if there's less time to spend adding to people's (entirely justified) concerns about it, that may be a good thing. because it seems we currently can't know what will be voted on, and in the meantime opponents are capitalizing on this to tell the public all sorts of wrong information.

i feel like we can all learn from this that post 2000 presidents can drink beerz without invading a country, which is a step in the right direction imo

I'd rather he'd "expend" his "capital" on telling us what he wants from the House and Senate on health care rather than a phony opportunity for a Conversation On Race.

id guess that the stunt is designed to END the whole affair as much as anything so that obama can focus on healthcare and not keep answering questions thru august

^^^ yeah seriously

I'm also upset that he retracted last Wednesday's remark, but whatevs. Win some, lose some with this fucking guy.

i know obama's tried to lead, but it's so muddled up right now what with the blue dogs fighting the rest of the dem party.. nagourney in the NYT had a piece on this today with a whole lot of detailed poll numbers.. some bloggers have complained about the angle here, saying people are "uneasy," but effectively that's what the numbers show. maybe they don't trust government NOT to screw it up, but don't like insurance companies either and think something needs to be done, but don't know what. (also so typical: people think reducing the deficit is very important, but don't want to cut government services, and don't want to pay more taxes either. uh...)

approval ratings are approval ratings - I think if he gets a positive news cycle out of this, it can only help him w/ health care.

he gets to be portrayed as a grown-up who can see both sides of an issue and bring people together (this is one of the best contrasts w/ the bush white house yet.) even better, it's quite possible that gates and the cop are both gonna cool down after this. this isn't israel/palestine, this is actually something that can be settled!

+ the pres gets shown drinking populist beer, general heartland pandering

this is pretty good politics, even though it might have been better politics to just not say anything about gates

I don't trust the polls right now. People ARE confused, as they usually are. On one hand, they want a fix to health care, but on the other hand they don't want their taxes raised. Same with the deficit. Remember that "voter unease" is Beltwayspeak for "Washington unease."

heh (this is from a rightwinger in twitteronia, but i lol'd):

sheesh - if beer nuts were dollars, joe biden would have upped the deficit by at least a grand this hour alone.

'something that can be settled' meaning uh, 'this particular unfortunately incident' and not 'racial profiling by police'

Why does it rub me the wrong way? I can understand that Obama painted himself into it a bit my stepping into something and then feeling a need to broker it back down. I can understand that Gates painted himself into it a bit by going on about making this a teachable moment. I understand Crowley is gonna show up. But I think it actually demeans a pretty substantive disagreement all the parties had to act as if it's the sort of thing that can or needs to be hashed out buddy-style over beer, as if the only real problem is that people are being strident in their disagreement. (And at the other end of the spectrum, this clearly isn't the sort of situation, like country-wise genocide or apartheid, that requires some kind of reconciliation action.)

I think it subtly and annoyingly casts the circumstances as just some hardheads having a little spat. I think it carries some incorrect implications that certain problems mostly just call for everyone to chill out and take it easy, as if vociferously complaining about them might be a form of trouble-making instead of trouble-solving. I think the shake-hands-and-make-up mentality is best saved for children, and I think the ability of two grown men to be civil toward one another for half an hour doesn't actually mean or say or reconcile anything serious about the issues in question unless you were a bit delusional about what the issues were in the first place (which, to be fair, I think some people very much were).

It's not a terrible idea and at this point the core issue has been well gone over and it's very Obama-like to try and send a working-together we're-not-so-different conciliatory message to the nation -- which is a good and fine message -- but there is a grain in here that irks me a bit.

I live in Portland; I'm all for beer being involved in every political event.

gooooood grief dude on hardball complaining that they're sitting in a bad arrangement at the table? (also joe the biden is, indeed, going through a lot of peanuts). chyron: "ale to the chief"

and.. not kidding here, but what would be a suitable way to reconcile something serious? hasn't it been the case forever that, effectively, many serious issues are reconciled by people (almost always guys, regrettably) sitting down over some kind of drinks and settling it?

I live in Portland; I'm all for beer being involved in every political event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

are any of the core central issues here going to be reconciled? did they need to be? are these people not all probably going home with the same core beliefs about what did or didn't happen?

how could i know?

as a side note, if ever there were a really profitable time to break into James Crowley's home without the 911 calls being taken seriously, this is it

man i hope he doesnt keep his cds in binders

maybe they're going home holding several beliefs at once about what did happen. it's possible. i couldn't know.

it's a RASHOMON moment

I feel like this might be an pretty unusual circumstance in that it *could* be reconciled a little bit.

Gates reacted the way that he did because of his history w/ + knowledge of racial profiling. If Crowley gets a better perspective on this, on why an old and innocent black man might act the way he did, well, he learned something. I dunno, he doesn't seem like some horrible, hopeless racist.

i figured, only several months after it was done & my head cleared, that the entire democratic primary season was one long rashomon moment. i certainly see them elsewhere all the time, but this one didn't dawn on me until much later.

Daria I guess my point is that at the end of the day, at least two of the people at that table are going to believe certain core things about Gates's arrest, and at least one will likely have a different opinion. Unless one or more of these parties are going to change their minds or change someone else's mind during this conversation, those core issues will not have been reconciled in any sense. That doesn't make the exercise pointless: it may make the people involved feel a lot better, about the world and about one another, and it sets a pleasant example, and it brings some closure to something that could probably stand a point of closure. They will likely all acknowledge one another's humanity and positions and go home cool and peaceable. But there's something about the casual "let's talk over a beer" framing that irks me. It's not that I think this is a bigger deal than beers; it's the stuff I mentioned above, about the way the beer-buddy handshake routine usually carries, in some small way, a suggestion of chiding people for caring about stuff it may be entirely legitimate for them to care about, for the sake of a veneer of agreement.

xpost damn, i should watch that movie again - also concerned it misconstrues what was shown, to throw around the name of it so easily.

I think the shake-hands-and-make-up mentality is best saved for children

I think this aspect of it is for the benefit of the huge swath of American adults who are children, mentally.

either way, I can understand not being happy that obama's using america's race problem for a cynical political stunt. just...personally I wish we were seeing more cynical political stunts, cause the whole 'nuanced and intelligent argument' thing doesn't seem to go that far. howbout some health care stunts? obama needs to be having beers w/ a dozen uninsured people dying of cancer.

or maybe something healthier than beer

for the record this is a very small "rubs me the wrong way" thing, but probably the best way to imagine it is to try to imagine at what point of substantive disagreement the buddy-buddy beer thing starts to seem awkward, and why

VPOTUS: Bucklers

never heard of this one. Any good? Just by elimination I assume it's the best beer of the 4. It would also make sense for Biden to have the best taste in beer, somehow.

lol, msnbc said on the chyron that the CONSERVATION was "friendly and thoughtful."

Biden: family history of alcoholism, so never started.

― barry totoro (suzy), Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

oh shit, nevermind.

I appreciate where you're coming from, nabisco, but I think it works on micro and macro levels, and has the added bonus of irritating freepers and morbsists alike.

This kind of stupid photo op reflects poorly on Obama's purported intelligence.

― Heric E. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's a GREAT photo op, IMO.

i don't think we can know if they changed their minds. i don't think we can know if they held certain core beliefs beforehand, either. once they said what they said about it, they may have decided it was impossible in the public eye to SAY they'd changed their minds, or say they'd seen it in a different way. what are the implications for the police department if an officer publicly states that he screwed up? i think he did, but saying so in this kind of situation is something they probably will refuse to do. what are the implications for gates' reputation if he publicly backs down from some of what he's said? i don't think he should.

if that's too vague: one/both of them may see this situation differently now, we can't know, because they will never admit it, so.. what can you do. beer

all photo ops are cheesy and manipulative, but some are way more effective than others.

I hope at the end of it, Biden asked "any of you drunks need a ride somewhere?"

haha beer otm

http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2007/131/6/1178883351-71057_full.jpg

mmm

that's sorta where I'm coming from, daria, except part of me thinks "what can you do? not pretend this is just a dumb little argument that only requires everyone to chill out and have a beer and then everything's fine"

sure it's a photo op, but IMHO that doesn't make it unserious. part of the foreign service school here in DC are those events which are basically school-subsidized drinking so that our future diplomatic corps can learn to deal with serious issues over beers/cocktails without making fools of themselves, because that's how it goes. come to think of it, i don't think this signifies the issue is necessarily reconciled now, either, simply that we're working on resolving it like civilized people.

man i hope he doesnt keep his cds in binders

^^^well done sir

i just heard crowleys statement on npr--not that this entirely washes away nabiscos concerns which are justified, but crowley made a point to discuss the beer summit as the start of a series of frank and productive talks between him and gates in the days and weeks to come or some such

blue moon's summer ale, honeymoon, isn't bad, honest. just saying

Negra Modelo

love the body language

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/30/us/31obama_600.jpg

cop has serious cop look on his face. like he wants to pull obama over.

BIDEN (squeezing cashews until they're a fine powder): See this? This is what Barack and I want in this country. Racism, see -- racism ground into dust.

(BIDEN wipes his hands on his trousers, looking at each in turn. CROWLEY shudders)

cop has serious cop look on his face. like he wants to pull obama over.

i lol'ed, for real

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwLdI947Rk4

y'know I've known biden was a teetotaler for a good while and for some reason I've never actually tried to imagine omfg what if he DID drink

other than that though bud light? buckler? I cannot believe I voted for these no-taste schmuckatellis; also, why do I know what all these people drank this afternoon

http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2007/131/6/1178883351-71057_full.jpg

my get-a-drink-after-work place has this on tap, advertised as "obama's favorite beer." it's not bad.

hey guys I don't know why this didn't occur to me while going on about it yesterday, but there's a much shorter reason why it bugged me, which is this. normally we use the shake-hands get-a-beer routine in circumstances where we either (a) think both parties are pretty equally wrong/right, or (b) we don't even remotely give a shit about who was wrong/right and just want everyone to shut up about it. so it's weird that there are these vague possible implications floating around the whole thing where it's like ... does it gives official sanction to the interpretation that both men were equally at fault? (it's not really a neutral position to take.) and since this has ballooned out to a whole abstract thing about race and police power and other stuff, does it possibly contribute to misimpressions that, you know, who cares and everyone just needs to shut up about that stuff? those are sorta the irritating grains in there.

advertised as "obama's favorite beer."

Haha, really? That's funny. It's a pretty solid summer wheat, btw. And you can find it pretty much everywhere in Chicago. People here serve it at weddings because they know most people can agree on it.

that's very conciliatory and Obama-like of it

hey guys I don't know why this didn't occur to me while going on about it yesterday, but there's a much shorter reason why it bugged me, which is this. normally we use the shake-hands get-a-beer routine in circumstances where we either (a) think both parties are pretty equally wrong/right, or (b) we don't even remotely give a shit about who was wrong/right and just want everyone to shut up about it. so it's weird that there are these vague possible implications floating around the whole thing where it's like ... does it gives official sanction to the interpretation that both men were equally at fault? (it's not really a neutral position to take.) and since this has ballooned out to a whole abstract thing about race and police power and other stuff, does it possibly contribute to misimpressions that, you know, who cares and everyone just needs to shut up about that stuff? those are sorta the irritating grains in there.

I think maybe you are overthinking/projecting here.

(Mostly because I do not agree with your thesis statement re: the circumstances where we make ppl shake hands and have a beer; it isn't that it's unimportant or that both parties are at fault, it's that things have become acrimonious to the point where no productive interaction can occur and you are essentially pressing a reset button so people can talk about their grievances without strangling each other.)

nabisco is projecting from the time he got ignored at HIS beer summit.

(I thought 'projecting' ws a weird word choice)

I meant "projecting what you think a beer and a handshake means onto the general populace".

ahhh I see.

I dunno, Dan -- obviously there are limits where the "beer" thing doesn't happen anymore. Some obvious extreme ones would be that nobody suggests a guy just needs to sit down for a beer with someone who murdered his kid, or a woman just needs to talk things out over a frosty one with the man she's accusing of rape. You wouldn't suggest bilked investors need to chill out over a beer with Madoff. I mean, I think this is the difference in tone between "beers" and actual hardcore reconciliation stuff like people do after, say, country-wide genocide. Maybe I'm missing something, but I honestly can't think of instances in which we suggest pally beer-based hand-shaking without one of those circumstances being true. (I think the small scale of this incident actually sorta makes the second one a bit true -- it's not massively important -- but the whiff of official sanction around that seems weird.)

they're getting to know each other better, though--surely you can see that, and that's a good thing, right?

nabisco ithink you are overplaying the importance of the beer in all this, it is just a conceit to get dudes around a table to start talking to each other jeez

normally we use the shake-hands get-a-beer routine in circumstances where we either

and there are about a thousand different scenarios in which you get a beer with someone, but i think what it boils down to is, you're getting to know the other person better

I don't think that what happened to Gates was on the same level as what Madoff did to his investors! Dude is not The Hurricane.

(IOW I don't see how this situation is out of bounds for making the two people with an issue sit down and talk to each other on semi-neutral territory.)

yeah Que I don't have a problem with it -- I mean, whatever, like I said, they'll feel better and it settles the issue nicely. but elmo I think the beer thing is totally symbolically rich with import! I mean, it's not just beer, it's completely rhetorical beer, being used to convey loads and loads of tonal and cultural stuff.

(xpost Que I'm not sure what difference that makes -- like I said, there is obviously a line of legitimate grievance somewhere beyond which we stop thinking getting to be pals is the answer, or we think any discussion of grievances is more formal/important than a casual over-beers thing.)

i mean the beer is just a pretext for everybody to get together under the auspices of hospitality & civility, y/n

the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because i wish Obama hadn't say anything in the first place.

it sucks that he felt like he had to apologize and make good on this whole thing, because the cop - who from all accounts I've read was acting like a typical power-tripping asshole cop, and who then shot his fucking mouth off at the president afterward instead of apologizing for the whole thing - got invited to the White House to have a beer with the prez as a reward for it. the guy is probably going to end up making money off this by being in a self-deprecating commercial, or writing a book, or something.

the one thing I haven't seen anyone talking about as far as the racism angle goes - is whoever called the cops on him in the first place. maybe in the type of area he lived in it is normal for neighbors not to know each other by sight, but Jesus Christ would I have been raging at them if it had been me in his shoes.

i mean yeah obama fucked up in the first place and this solution was hella goofy but the more i think about it the more i like it as a way out.

(see the Gates documentary thread for info on the caller, who wasn't a neighbor, couldn't identify the people by race, and didn't claim they were necessarily breaking in)

I mean, it's not just beer, it's completely rhetorical beer, being used to convey loads and loads of tonal and cultural stuff.

if you wanna look at it as rhetorical beer with loads of stuff attached to it go right ahead, and it can be if you wanna overthink it?

or it's just two people in an unusual circumstance trying to understand one another

the one thing I haven't seen anyone talking about as far as the racism angle goes - is whoever called the cops on him in the first place.

Wow, really? That has been all over the place to the point where the woman who did call hired a lawyer to make a statement and held a press conference to clear her name, plus the transcript released from her call drastically undercuts Crowley's account.

in years past they might have drank scotch but really, so what? sharing food & drink is a fundamental social ritual, i don't see why beer has so much cultural weight in your estimation

haha, i guess i should pay better attention before flapping my gums.

I really don't think anyone's beer was rhetorical, except for Biden's.

i guess the question for nabs if they met at a conference room in the white house with glasses of ice water would you feel differently.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/usa/obamaberlin.gif

man if only they had ordered a pizza and had a wine option we could break ilx forever w/this thread

what we really need to know is what type of bottle opener was used on the beer

okay seriously leaving aside the other stuff, I find it funny that y'all don't think the talking-outside-over-beer thing is kind of rhetorical! especially given this whole thread being based on the media going over the rhetorical/semiotic value of the brands of beer they chose to drink! I mean, yeah, destroyer, I think it has a really different rhetorical angle than a formal meeting with glasses of water, in lots of ways that are great (mainly the fact that this is really not super-important), and in a couple small ones that rub me the wrong way. the whole thing is totally a gendered ritual! it's a whole "we are men and meet casually as equals over a cold one and talk out our differences in an atmosphere of egalitarian masculinity" thing, surely. I mean, this is the white house version of "hug it out, bitch," no?

uh no, because "hug it out, bitch" doesn't actually involve resolving anything or making any attempt to understand the other person but instead is about burying your hurt in the name of being a righteous dude

In honor of this historic meeting I had four (4) Red Stripes last night. And a Stella, in memory of Gordon Brown (RIP).

like if I had to rate it I'd say that the beers as a rhetorical gesture are like 85% great and only 15% annoying to me

You seem to be entirely hung up on the "drinking a beer" part to the point where you are ignoring the more important "and talking about what happened" part.

I also don't think all rituals are rhetorical.

the talking-outside-over-beer thing is kind of rhetorical! especially given this whole thread being based on the media going over the rhetorical/semiotic value of the brands of beer they chose to drink!

do you understand that even though what the media thinks about the kinds of beer they're drinking and the endless discussions and blog posts and people talking about it on cable news probably ad nauseum this week has nothing to do with the substance of the discussion around the table? in other words, you're totally getting thrown off by the beer here?

In 1981, as the most junior member assistant engineer, he was conscripted to work on a Public Image Ltd recording session for a single, "Home is Where the Heart is". In a PiL fansite interview [2] Launay recalled:

“None of the other assistant engineers at the Townhouse wanted to work with PiL because of John's reputation for throwing up, walking all over the mixing console, and being verbally abusive.

The session started very slow because the engineer/producer they had chosen wasn't very familiar with the then very new, and experimental SSL mixing console. This meant I had to keep showing him which button did what. Back then an assistant engineer's place was to stay very quiet, at the back of the room, operating the analogue tape machines. John (Lydon) sat in a big arm chair with two crates of Red Stripe, the Jamaican Beer, one on each side, and watched with amusement at me going back and forth trying my best to help the engineer out. John wanted a triplet delay on a particular vocal line, and the engineer didn't seem to understand what he meant. I was really into Dub Reggae at the time, so I set it up and it worked well. Later the engineer got up and left the room to have a piss. John got up and locked the door behind him. When he came back he started thumping on the door shouting, "Let me in..." John told him to fuck off.

give them some credit, nabisco: there were no cigars

lord, Que, I'm not "thrown off" by the rhetorical gesture of "beers," I'm talking about the rhetorical gesture of "beers" and why it bothers me a bit -- discussion could happen in any number of settings, all of them rhetorically different, and this one was picked for a reason!

... Yes, because Crowley made a joke about it and Obama decided to call his bluff.

well okay if thrown off doesn't work for you then like HI DERE says, you're hung up on it.

either way, you're overthinking it by like a million percent. yes, rituals and meetings have hidden agendas and rhetoric and stuff, but i think at the end of the day it sounds like you just don't like beer

Que we should definitely settle our difference of opinion here over a beer

anyway i live in DC, c'mon down to visit, we'll have some 60 Minute IPA's and laugh about it

xpost HI FIVES

i guess i'm not sure if there is another rhetorical setting you would find better or if any rhetorical setting would bother you?

watch out, Que's going to have his girlfriend Julianne Moore fling paint on you

wait, you like Julianne Moore, nvrmind go knock yrself out

let's get together & solve racism over coffee & danish

the new album from Sufjan Stevens

tbh i think this beer meeting was awesome

Yes, because Crowley made a joke about it and Obama decided to call his bluff.

Did not know!

yeah that's crazy i had no idea--i like the meeting more and more the more i think about it

If there is any rhetorical imagery I think people should take away from it, it's the idea that people who have issues with each other that stem from racial friction can actually sit down and talk to each other like rational adults and come out the other side still behaving like rational adults.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/30/harvard.arrest.beers/index.html

Earlier Thursday, Obama said the chat was prompted by an exchange he had with Crowley, who said in a phone call with Obama, "Maybe I'll have a beer in the White House someday."

The president replied that that could be arranged.

also lol Obama, you are awesome:

"This is not a university seminar. It is not a summit. It's an attempt to have some personal interaction when an issue has become so hyped and so symbolic that you lose sight of just the fact that these are people involved," he said.

He said he would be surprised if the media makes the meeting out to be more important than his meeting Thursday with Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, president of the Philippines, but "the press has surprised me before."

<3

oh, obamapaws

lol!

this whole episode has depressed me greatly, and the presidents involvement was pretty dim, but that is great

yes mr president there will be 4 kajillion blog posts about yr meeting w/ gloria macawhatsis

maybe she can bring him a six pack of san miguel

Kudos for completely misinterpreting Obama's slam on the media coverage of Beer Summit 2009

srsly mr president you need to start drinking some real beer

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/51071705Sanmiguel.jpg

"the press has surprised me before."

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:zCN6ltCiN7NQpM:http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/molson_dry.gif

red stripe gonna walk this poll obv, 2nd place is a bit more uncertain?

of the three, blue moon is the only one which constitutes a 'good' (but not great) beer. raise yer standards

I've got a few stripes in my fridge. don't mind if I have one right now..

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

probably have to go with Red Stripe, even though I don't love it. Unless I was simply having a single beer, Blue Moon would be the last one I'd go for if presented these three options.

Hoooray beer

shoulda had a lone star

http://www.djibnet.com/photo/400394507-obama-the-cowboy.jpg

^^OK so any excuse for that pic amirite?

mos def

Five years ago today!

Which I pointed out on Twitter and Skip Gates retweeted. :)