asexual pride movement

Don't tell me how not to express love with my body!

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/08/asexuals-are-coming-out.html

lucky bastards

I'd have written 30 screenplays by now.

"Asexuals-We Really Don't Give a Fuck."

i don't understand

Honk, if you're not horny

not hard to understand, except for this part:

Relationships
Asexual people have the same emotional needs as anyone else, and like in the sexual community we vary widely in how we fulfill those needs. Some asexual people are happier on their own, others are happiest with a group of close friends. Other asexual people have a desire to form more intimate romantic relationships, and will date and seek long-term partnerships. sexual people are just as likely to date sexual people as we are to date each other.

doesn't seem like that would work out very well.

(obviously that last sentence is supposed to start "Asexual people", not sure what i did there)

i admire anyone who can put aside their feelings to accomplish something.
a parade isn't something

This will be a good thread.

Well it's hardly likely to turn into a clusterfuck...

fwiw i can comprehend the idea of asexual persons -- i just can't imagine life devoid of sexual desire & its expression

Don't knock it till you've not tried it

I can't imagine being proud of being asexual. I can imagine being essentially indifferent or neutral about it, but it doesn't seem like much to celebrate.

they get so much done in a day

I can't imagine being proud of being asexual. I can imagine being essentially indifferent or neutral about it, but it doesn't seem like much to celebrate.

"What do we not want?"
"Sex!"
"When do we not want it?"
"Now!"

who knows what they're REALLY into

"we're not getting any, we don't care"

Maybe instead of "pick up" bars they go to "put down" bars?

A: "I'm not sexually attracted to you!"
B: "I'm not sexually attracted to you either!"

Presumably at asexual clubs the fave tune is Kraftwerk's "Sex Object"?

A: "I'm not sexually attracted to you!"
B: "I'm not sexually attracted to you either!"

"Do you wanna not go out?"
"I can't, I'm not seeing someone else right now"

voulez vous ne coucher pas avec moi

^^^ charter members of the ahumorous pride movement

We're inviting you to join as our first president

lol n/a

It's not ahumourous, it's humour for people who don't like laughing...

Because some people are just not interested in laughing. They have no desire to fulfil any kind of laughing stereotype as pushed upon us all by society. The natural laugh impulse is greatly diminished in them so as to be non existent.

the sexual community

somebody has a sense of humor

"They're not bothered by the low levels of amusement," Brotto said. "That's what makes them different from someone with humour dysfunction, who wants to seek treatment."

If you're asexual, do you just laugh when someone attractive tickles your balls? Or do you get some sort of begrudging boner?

(xpost) first patron of the Ahumourous Pride Movement
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Queen_Victoria_by_Bassano.jpg/210px-Queen_Victoria_by_Bassano.jpg

They would have to acknowledge the sheer bloody-minded persistence of the tickler, at the very least (xp)

Particularly if they were French...

At the "go gay people!" club on campus there are two asexual ladies. This is SO difficult to wrap my head around. I think this is largely because you hardly ever hear of it or encounter people who note it abt themselves. There's still people who are like "How can a MAN get horny for ANOTHER MAN???" abt gay people (well, gay men). I sorted through my thoughts about this. They were mean thoughts. 1. "Maybe it's a cover for being ugly." (uh, fucking duh, no.) 2. "Maybe they haven't met anyone they were attracted to yet." IMO this is just a really gentle version of telling a lesbian she just needs a good dicking & that's get her head straight.

Deadeye Dick by Kurt Vonnnegut has an asexual pride march in it at one point.

I know a guy who apparently told plenty of people he was asexual, but most of those people are pretty sure that he's gay and in denial about it.

what seems weird to me is that there are people who are so sure that they are going to stay asexual that they are willing to define themselves that way. it just seems to open themselves up to embarrassment if they suddenly get horny one day.

if they have genitals and hormones they're sexual on some level, so I'm inclined to dismiss most of this as denial - otherwise there's gotta be some basic physiological reason, a hormone deficiency or something.

or traumatic past experiences ...

I thought I was for maybe asexual as a teeenager but it was bcz CHURCH kicked the sexy right out of me. I mean, it was so discouraged, even thinking abt anything like that, that it took me years away from home to be able to really pick up on sexual signals. I had crushes but it started & ended there.

what seems weird to me is that there are people who are so sure that they are going to stay asexual that they are willing to define themselves that way. it just seems to open themselves up to embarrassment if they suddenly get horny one day.

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:21 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

though honestly i kind of feel this way about people who put themselves in any broad category, like "republican" or "atheist." what if one day you have a vision and see god, then you just look like a douche for calling yourself an atheist for the past 30 years.

What is I suddenly grow a penis and I've been calling myself a woman all these years?

I mean that's worse than wearing the same dress as another girl to prom.

sometimes I wonder how PC you're gonna have to be in order to not have to be all "those were different times!" in the future.

xp Abbott: how common is it for Mormon guys to solicit Mormon women by saying, "I had a vision that you and I were to be married"? One of my bf's female friends from college had a guy say this to her, and her response was essentially, "Fuck off, you're creepy." But I got the impression that some women went for this.

I mean that's worse than wearing the same dress as another girl to prom.

Plus that crotchular bulge is going to be hard to explain, too.

that might melt me if he was hot

know a guy who apparently told plenty of people he was asexual, but most of those people are pretty sure that he's gay and in denial about it.

― what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I didn't know you knew Morrissey!

sarahel that's a thing sometimes dudes say to a chick but not the only thing and usually when they start seeing the temple in each others' eyes (ie hitching time) and yeah it's creepy & manipulative (or valiant & faithful, depending on yr perspective)

ha ha ... for the longest time, this guy was seriously obese, and then he lost a lot of weight. Now, he kinda looks like a persian cat that had its body shaved for some veterinary procedure. No one I know, to my knowledge, has asked him whether the weight loss corresponded to deciding that he wanted to get laid after all.

I think some people have a very low sex drive, have highly elaborate ideas of romance and/or religious scruples and never really get beyond the 'Ugh, bodily fluids' stage to the 'ooh, sweet transgression' stage and sex may just pass them by, or not, of course.

I tend not to think about the bodily fluids.

^^ I mean, being dissuaded from sexual impulses because sex involves bodily fluids, is kinda like being afraid to cook because boiling water is hot.

maybe they're all just really, really lazy

hahahahahaha.

but if they're that lazy, why have an activist movement?

i dunno, if you're not interested in touching yourself or others in a sexy way, there's nothing wrong with that -- i just can't help but wonder: where does all that sexy get to? is it repressed? does it get sublimated, somehow?

what happens to a boner deferred? does it dry up like a raisin in the sun?

http://glad-to-be-a.livejournal.com/

everybody has a different libido/sex drive, i have no problem believing that some people's are (due to hormones or whatever) very, very, very low.

http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/75426083/15758965

I accept that livejournaler's concept of a bell curve of sexuality, but that doesn't mean we can't o_O them, like midgets and dwarves and babies with butt penises.

sometimes I wonder how PC you're gonna have to be in order to not have to be all "those were different times!" in the future.

― ❊❁❄❆❇❃✴❈plaxico❈✴❃❇❆❄❁❊ (I know, right?),

in the future, babies with butt penises will have their own pride parade.

I wonder how long I have to stay celibate before I can self-identify as asexual.

But I guess saying something like that on a thread like this is kinda like putting a sign saying "kick me" on your own back.

The world makes such a big deal out of sex and sexuality and coupling and coupling up. I can really kinda sympathise with people who just want to say "enough already."

http://www.morethings.com/fan/south_park/photo_gallery/nurse_gollum-conjoined_fetus_twin.jpg

Kate, you can sympathise with them, perhaps, but you have crushes all the time!

xp Kate: from other threads, though, it definitely seems like you have the desire, though. These people are saying they don't.

a crush is not the same as desire.

I really am beginning to wonder about that. A crush is kind of a visual thing, it doesn't really connect with any actual ... sexual feeling down there.

I don't know. I'm not saying that I am an Asexual, but I'm saying that I could definitely sympathise with being one.

I think for me, crushes were partly sexual and partly ideological, but were also, weirdly like some sort of game or tactical exercise, especially since most of them weren't people that I really wanted to be in a relationship with.

ideological?

Don't make me revive the Crushology thread where we categorise all the different kinds of crushes and what they mean.

Actually, probably, my internet crush is probably more of an "I want to be you" rush than an actual sexual or romantic crush and I should just relax and slip back into asexual despair again.

But wait, if I feel despair at feeling so asexual, I'm not really a Prideful Asexual, would I be?

I've totally had the "I want to be you" crush!

xp horseshoe -- I think ^^ that's mainly what I meant by ideological.

oh okay! all crushes are kind of an "i want to be you" crush, i think.

well, some are "i think you're hot, and I want to do you."

some are certainly "I want to bone you" though

xp: haha exactly

what about 'i want our beautifully compatible minds to sink into one another' or is that something only ninnies think

^^ uh, I've had those too.

I can't remember what it's like to actually want to bone someone.

I've got to the point where the idea of actually touching someone is kind of gross. It's all mental these days.

Oh, and now the good pure asexual thread is all besmirched with filth. Sigh.

I brought up the babies with butt penises first.

Generally my crushes are a heady mix of all three. Envy, lust, and pride.

well at least they don't involve sloth!

ninny crushes

actually mine were more like, "We think the same, we hate all the same things, let's hook up and take revenge on all the idiots of society."

I've got to the point where the idea of actually touching someone is kind of gross. It's all mental these days.

Having this the other way around, these days -- the idea of letting anyone close enough to touch me is...it's so unlikely, it might as well be happening to someone else. Heh. I spose if there were any real prospects, that could change pretty quickly, probably. But it feels impossible right now.

:(

Sloth is for the immediate few days after consummation, well, sloth alternating with frenzied periods of non-sloth.

sarahel that is all very lovely and principled but thinking *the same* and hating *all* the same things isn't necessary...a wavelength, a rapport, and a certain commonality are

dude, I was 19.

yeah i kinda got that you were criticising younger-you a bit

anyway, asexuals! a rum lot.

I have long had the lingering fear that all my big sex talking and crush talking on the internets is actually a big cover for my lack of any genuine sexuality. :-(

Having this the other way around, these days -- the idea of letting anyone close enough to touch me is...it's so unlikely, it might as well be happening to someone else. Heh. I spose if there were any real prospects, that could change pretty quickly, probably. But it feels impossible right now.

Actually, maybe I meant this, rather. It's so unlikely it's become impossible to imagine and therefore icky and unnatural.

xp - I was trying to summarize my mentality about it, and convey that it wasn't some fey swooning type of thing. I think I'm still attracted to people for that reason, though now, it's a more realistic, "Let's hang out and do a creative project together."

Right, Kate! In the "why in the world would I want to do THAT?" way. I've been here before, it can be undone by a mutual attraction and a couple of dates, but the danger is that if I rush into anything, the weirdness of it will make me dissociate. And I like actually BEING THERE when something exciting happens, instead of floating around the ceiling like I'm watching someone else.

I dunno - I remember hooking up with someone after over a year of not doing so, and it was mixture of excitement/being present and some dissocation. But then, I think most of the time, in most things, I'm both doing things and watching myself do them.

^^^This would probably ring true for most ILXors

... and thinking about why I'm doing them, and what if I did something else?

im asexual...

a sexual being, that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks max, for getting us back on topic!

im asexual...

a sex u al wanna experience, that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"what happened? i am aroused"

"kill hamster __ yes ___ no"

This thread has introduced me to the phrases "ninny crushes" and "crotchular bulge". I think I am in love!

Anyone who is asexual who wasn't abused as a child is a big bloodless freak and should stfu and gtfo.

but by definition they don't want to gtfo...

it doesn't seem like much to celebrate

oh, I dunno. Who was the writer who said on entering his dotage "Thank God that's all over with"?

Plato and Augustine expressed what amounts to that sentiment, Dr. Morbius, though they were both understandably conflicted about what kind of life they were advocating. And Augustine at least knew what he was lamenting, having slept with everything on two continents before giving it all up for good. Also cf. Stoicism.

I know two asexual people, and for both of them religion plays a key role (one is now a priest), plus general squeamishness about, er, the world at large. Neither's renounced their old ways; they'll both, I expect, be lifelong virgins.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/SpPvH2DT5rI/AAAAAAAAbsw/fqZl18WKHfk/s1600/DavidJay.jpg

This is like Too Drunk To Fuck in reverse

Sorry.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i191/fluxion23/DavidJay.jpg

This is like Too Drunk To Fuck in reverse

like actually BEING THERE when something exciting happens, instead of floating around the ceiling like I'm watching someone else.

A friend of mine told me this exact thing a couple of months ago, and it was the best reason for quitting pot I had ever heard. He said, "I want to actually be present when my girlfriend tells me she loves me." It was one of the sweetest things I'd ever heard.

He fucks his girlfriend, though. So that's off-topic.

LOL, I bookmarked this thread without actually ever posting in it.

Typical.

I'm sorry, but if I'm going to join a movement, it better have a better color scheme than this:

http://rlv.zcache.com/asexual_pride_bumper_sticker_1-p128004942635588411en7pq_216.jpg?max_dim=656

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbclvfkrhI1rubjl2o1_400.jpg

I am like, barely heterosexual and practically asexual. Almost no people turn me on.

misleading display name then

has there been any theoretical/psych inquiry into this yet?

Into homosexual II's display name?

The Asexuals are pretty good. I have a few of their EPs. Canadian HC never gets enough attention IMO.

The 'asexual and proud' flag looks like a supermarket own brand licorice allsort.

http://i.imgur.com/hwuiC2k.png

LOL, we really are such narcissists, aren't we?

Asexuality would not be synonymous with celibacy, which is a lack of sexual activity, but rather would indicate a complete lack of sexual urges. Since such a state would seem to be accidental, it seems a strange thing to take pride in.

uh people take pride in lots of states they have little control over, for several reasons

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy

Just because people do weird things doesn't mean they aren't weird.

holy motherfucking shit @ christine chubbock, I had never heard of that before xp

xp yeah but those things being entirely explicable & common somewhat dampens the strangeness, is what I'm saying

Asexual pride isnt any "weirder" than gay pride. I dont understand your point Aimless.

asexuals have never been persecuted afaik

yeah I'm not trying to draw any equivalency & I have problems w ppl coöpting the terms of the persecuted but I did say there were several reasons, for instance the ppl asserting their "pride" may previously have spent years feeling like shit for being different regardless of lack of persecution from the outside world

Gay "pride" has a needful compensatory function, in that the accident of a non-standard sexual orientation has been irrationally made a point of social shame and rampant discrimination. Asexuals, to the best of my knowlege have never been the objects of similar discrimination.

Compare the only asexual epithet I can identify, virgin!, to others such as nigger, faggot, kike, greaser, fairy or bulldyke and the difference in the need for asserting "pride" in the face of discrimination becomes pretty obvious.

omg let's not get into these comparisons please

I *agree* with you that the asexual pride *movement* is dumb for all the reasons that you state, I'm just saying it's entirely obvious why they're doing it: to make themselves feel better.

I just think the "proud of what? DOES NOT COMPUTE" pose you're striking is disingenuous I guess

really don't care about any of this tho, it's a silly argument, soz

It's really up to asexuals to decide whether they feel alienated by society to the extent that they would find value in asserting "pride" in their nonstandard sexual orientation.

to what extent tho

identity politics, never as good as the first time

otoh if you want to play you should prob. come out as something not not-something

isn't that the ultimate though

oh wait no it isn't

the non-rapist pride community is begin to assert itself

nigger, faggot, kike, greaser

what, like the Fonz?

it must be difficult to develop close relationships if you don't do sex.

it seems a strange thing to take pride in

The same could be said for anything one had no hand in.

ok i've gone from by jove, aimless, you're correct to more power to them, we need more awareness about sexual variance, not less.

I regularly persecute asexuals

they all probably buy their own houses and don't carpool

dot tumblr dot com

xp zing!

what happens to a boner deferred? does it dry up like a raisin in the sun?

http://asexualnews.com/index.php/asexuality-101/676-demiromantic-asexuals

Acephobia and Asexophobia are the Asexual equivalents of Homophobia. Although neither of these words have gained any official recognition outside of the Asexual community, the words are easy enough to dissect. The terms refer to fear of Asexuals and Asexuality. Examples of this can be found, although the term itself is somewhat misleading. Even people who use the term homophobia are often refer to acts motivated by hatred.

Acephobia

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ucXNr3si5F4/UHLoPXiKAzI/AAAAAAAAc04/hHZF0pOqY9w/s1600/ace-ventura-screaming_510.jpg

I suspect there's substantial overlap between asexuals those taking higher dose SSRIs.

You wouldn't frequent a theater that never played the third reel, either.

I never knew "involuntary celibacy" was an actual category (or at least one worthy of a wikipedia entry). Funny, I've been using that exact term to describe myself for the last while. Anyways, I generally don't tell people I'm a still sexually inactive 25 year old since most people would probably just look at me funny. Obviously that's not a grain of sand compared to daily homophobia, but sadly you can't underestimate how deeply rooted normative ideas about sexuality can be and how petty people can be about anything that veers off course.

I passed as gay in high school and my brief sojourn in the military, can't say the abuse/derision really differs - though how its taken certainly does: I had a lot more sympathy to those who were born gay, being merely effeminate (largely due to an absence of male role models in my life) myself.

yeah i think the hostility toward asexuality shown in this thread is justification enough for their wanting a pride movement. "persecution" happens in subtle as well as overt ways and people should be allowed to be concerned with the former if they feel it affects them. i really cannot see the downside of an asexual pride movement and think it is gross for people who are ostensibly not part of that community saying it is "weird". sorry aimless, i generally really love your posts, but your views on this issue are off the mark.

The thing is -- in the case of people who (lgbtq or not) are subject to e.g. homophobia, there's a continuum from violent gaybashing (and premeditated murder) to everyday casual homophobic slurs that leave people feeling like they'll never be accepted, and when people experience homophobic treatment along that continuum it evokes the rest of the continuum, there's always the sense that the escalation is there in potentia. In the case of people who are subject to "acephobia", that continuum would be much shorter: sure, people who deviate from the social-romantic norm can get treated like they are weird and wrong, and can feel that they'll never be accepted. I get that people can live in social worlds where there is a lot of pressure to partner up, and to be romantically and sexually active, and that it feels like social support is withdrawn if you don't do this. But no-one's going to see you walking down the street not holding hands with someone who you're not sleeping with and solely on the basis of that decide to kick your head in.

The society that we presently live in really overemphasises the primacy of the romantic-sexual couple, and it seems like people have looked back into their own family pasts and interpreted every maiden aunt and every confirmed bachelor and every dissatisfied spouse, and decided to code them all as people who were frustrated in their sexual desires. It's very likely that for many of them the presence/absence of sex wasn't the problem -- the things that concerned them in life could have been material, economic, spiritual. But we are a culture that thinks in terms of two-person households and love marriages, of nuclear families rather than multi-generational, of sexual self-discovery as a form of personal fulfilment, that the sex one has reflects and forms the self that one is. It's a corrective against previous generations' attitudes, and in a few generations people will understand the world (not just the present, but historically) through a different lens.

so of course people feel put-upon by society at large! it is a sad irony that we live in a world where people are expected to preemptively define themselves by sexuality so 'not being interested in sexuality' becomes itself a sexuality! but... no-one is nailbombing a pub because they think you are a moral degenerate.

Treeship, I can endure your disapproval, so long as you understand that I was not saying that asexuality itself was weird, but rather that asexuals encouraging one another to join together in a social movement to assert communal pride in their asexuality struck me as weird, basically for the reasons c sharp major articulates so well in his post. I can see that asexuality might be ill understood in society, and asexuals might feel somewhat unaccepted, but by taking on the trappings of earlier movements such as black pride and gay pride they implicitly claim to be in a similar situation. They aren't.

It seems to me that an asexual pride movement falls closer in the social spectrum to a theoretical movement for freckle pride than to, for example, gay pride. While I, too, can see no downside to this theoretical movement of the freckled to assert their right not to be ostracized for their freckles and I cannot claim to be a member of this group, and while freckled people might certainly feel that their freckles mark them out in society and the presence of freckles affects them (all the criteria you specified) I would persist on thinking it weird if some freckled people started agitating for freckle pride as societywide movement. Gross of me, I know, but I'd still feel that way.

basically for the reasons c sharp major articulates so well in his post

insert your own 'cisgender assumption' joke heeeere

proud of yourself, are ya

why yes, I am, slightly

*disapproving glare*

*whimper*

no autosex for me tonight

Aimless i knew what you were saying and sorry if I wasn't clear. I think that asexuality, being a sexual identity that forces one to make nonstandard (non-heteronormative) lifestyle choices seems different than something superficial like freckles, especially bc terms like "sexless" are used disparagingly sometimes and "virility" is something society seems to value, but whatever, agree to disagree.

in his post

I paused a while over that phrasing.

My first inclination was to say "in the post above this one", but realized how often other posts show up during the composition of a long post. So then I thought, "in the post above", but I wasn't sure how many posts c sharp major had already made "above" mine, making this potentially ambiguous. Then I considered inserting a quotation from c sharp major, but couldn't decide how to do this that wasn't awkward. So I finally said to hell with it and used "in his post", knowing it might not be appropriate either, but at least it was brief and simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

terms like "sexless" are used disparagingly sometimes

As the current bullying thread should remind us, almost anything can be made the pretext for disparagement. Nose hair. Wattles. A wandering eye. Long fingers. A prominent adam's apple. Oddly placed whorls in the hair on your head. Cruelty finds its own reasons.

lol imago

good thread

as a freckled dude in remission can i just say freckles are hawt, would take them back in a second, especially if my hairline reverted to the position it occupied at the time in question

Nose hair. Wattles. A wandering eye. Long fingers. A prominent adam's apple. Oddly placed whorls in the hair on your head.

also hawt imo

previous ms mac had an adams apple, never found any supporting evidence o trouble me

previous ms mac had an adams apple, never found any supporting evidence to troublearouse me

copyedited that for u, 1st one's free of charge

(imagine there is a bolded apostrophe in "adams" otherwise that gag doesn't work)

when this fey mood takes you, you really ought to post as `loses`

aw man cmon man

not my fault you entered stage left with a target for a dn tbf

Oh, there's a spectrum now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/asexual-relationships_n_3362206.html?1371648830&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/2013_05_SexualRomanticSpectrumWIDE.png

Sort of dig the idea of being "homoromantic," regardless of which dot in the right column my dotted line connects to.

these folks really test my ideological commitment to respect of others' subjectivities

They really ought to come up with other ways to say "fuck you" at moments like this.

everyone wants to be a special snowflake. too bad no matter who you're attracted to (or not, or "demiattracted to", whatever the fuck that is), you're still the same slab of crap we all are.

last 3 posts super otm

https://twitter.com/TumblrTXT/status/371245275190681600

https://twitter.com/TumblrTXT/status/370265314443157504

I think the spectrum is v v interesting, and I identify with a lot of what ppl say about intimacy and the incredible complexity of desire. But it's hard to report on srs aspects when the ppl you interview say things like "One woman Brotto studied said she masturbates to mythical fairies."

I also think a lot of this is pathologizing things on the spectrum of normal human variation, but I can basically get that when you are NEVER represented in depictions or the public space, putting a concrete name on how you're different is profoundly validating.

human sexuality's really fluid and multidimensional; what i find annoying is artificially carving out identities for these normal fluctuations. "you just don't get it, you're just a sexual typical." unless heterodemisexuals have been dragged to death from trucks, fired from their jobs, and denied equal rights under the law without much press about it.

like any ye ole issue this is complex. what if people are finding homes in an identity that actually masks a mental health issue? the only self-avowed asexual I knew was actually a gay guy who was completely out of touch with his sexuality. would being part of a special club really help, or would it reinforce unhealthy attitudes? who knows. who cares. be a 1/2 demisexual 1/2 asexual binormal heterotype if that floats yer boat.

My big problem is figuring out how to more strenuously oppress my clearly out-of-character sexual desires so that I don't continue on in my path of being an unmitigated tease.

Real talk: I'm mad sympathetic to this movement, but both they and myself need to swallow that bitter pill and scheduled an appointment to see a therapist and/or sex therapist.

chaotic neutral demisexual

I am still pretty reluctant to accept "demisexual" - is it implying that people who are not "demisexual" are just horny all the time and will fuck anybody on the first date? are people who only have sex after forming a strong emotional relationship actually maligned in our culture???

If neither person's willing to make the first move, are they both presumed demi?

Well ime with dating, if you "like" someone you are expected to put out by around the THIRD date, at least. Which is still hardly any time, if what you want is a complex understanding of someone. Outside of religious communities and their celibacy/chastity, there's little to no discussion or portrayal of other ways of doing intimacy.

hemidemisexualquaver

"aromantic" lol

lol I was just thinking about hemidemisemi quavers a few days ago--actually I was trying to remember what order those are supposed to go in, and then I gave up and paid more attention to my bike ride.

Well ime with dating, if you "like" someone you are expected to put out by around the THIRD date, at least. Which is still hardly any time, if what you want is a complex understanding of someone.

man I'm naive b/c I thought this was a thing only taken seriously in like TV and the movies. I guess I am sort of demisexual! not always though.

xp yep, I've never managed to get beyond the second or third date without a) acquiescing to sexual contact I didn't want to have and said contact was terrible for me and (consequently) them and that ends it all, or b) successfully staving off sexual contact but alienating the other person and that ends it

Grass is always greener, but man, would I trade whatever I've got for being an aromantic dynamo.

idk, things can definitely seem to be going nowhere if there's no physical intimacy for some time, but I don't think physical intimacy or social/intellectual engagement are the whole picture on their own, unless you're genuinely asexual

Maybe the third date thing is just me, but I don't think I'm making up the general cloud of expectation that hovers somewhere around 3rd date territory. And as Eric says, the outcome is frequently not that pretty (also it makes sober dating m/l impossible because I can't get through the flirtation/attraction part).

That makes me sound pathetic, so I amend: the outcome is often "pretty" but not personally satisfying because it wasn't really for me, it was for them anyway.

ANYWAY. Therapy, you say?

it's criminal that they didn't leave room on that infographic for freak-a-holics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aATSUKu0jI

my anxiety and/or hatred of small talk makes it difficult to dig in without drinking, sure

As this is not ILTMI, I guess this is not really the appropriate path to go down.

sure

so, I'm going to register my inherent skepticism of personality typing re: that "romantic types" chart

http://covers.openlibrary.org/b/id/6891641-M.jpg

I had this book a long time ago, but I gave it to someone as a gift before I read it. Never do that.

doesn't androgyny fall more to the realm of pansexuality than asexuality?

I would put money on there being some genuine overlap.

shh, I'm trying to pretend all androgyny is about being sexy and looking like david bowie

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2012/pretending-youre-oppressed-the-new-internet-fad-2/

found this trying to figure out wth demisexuality is. not a bad article considering it's thought catalog.

androgyny is about gender, asexuality is about desire

these things are not necessarily linked

I don't know, maybe it does. Seems like all of these terms are sort of helpful but in a way they all bring in their own baggage and it just becomes another limiting thing. I get the modern desire to want to understand others and be inclusive and all that but it seems like whatever liberating power these movements have is being co-opted.

The Asexual Spectrum? Give me a break. It looks super limiting.

Ultimately, I agree. Pride in asexuality is really pride in stridently not fixing a problem.

it's only a problem if they think it's a problem though.

Many of them do think it's a problem tho. Society's problem with them.

what? i think having little or no sex drive is only a problem because people don't have a concept for it, and so treat these people strangely if not with as much hostility as some other sexual minorities. the "pride" movement is about broadening people's understanding of the varieties of sexualities that exist in order that more people are not only "tolerated" but understood. makes total sense.

'Stridently not fixing a problem'? Are there some easy answers you have? You make it seem like decades of chemical differences & mis-developed social tools can be easily worked around.

xp I'd personally rather have a professional get my head right.

I'd personally rather have a professional get my give head right.

or actively stop hanging around people who I find attractive?

i don't understand your position, eric. do you think it is inherently a problem to not be interested in sex? even if these people don't want to have an interest in sex?

xxxp Oh, sweetie. But what's "right"? C'mon, this is basic level stuff, you know there's no set thing.

so treat these people strangely if not with as much hostility as some other sexual minorities

please tell me you're not serious

yeah, sorry if I meant to imply otherwise, elmo. they're different realms for sure.

I understand the "third date" cloud but I've always found waiting for "serious" attraction to develop a fool's game, as given the general antipathy between myself and other gay men, that's never going to happen. It hasn't so far.

So I treat sex, on the rare occasions when I ha/d/ve it, like racquetball.

there's no right, but oh boy are there some wrongs perpetuated

I think when I was younger I was definitely leaning toward demisexual - I really only wanted to screw someone if I REALLY, REALLY liked them a LOT. Now I am an old perv and your bog standard everyday sexual bozo. So disappointing.

mh, np, we're cool

xp elmo, last time this thread was revived i said that people who want to identify as asexuals and talk about the discrimination they say they have faced should be encouraged to do so, in that everyone should be able to feel like their sexuality is valid. people responded by saying that they didn't face overt discrimination and so they shouldn't do this, because it would somehow take away from the much more serious, pressing issues that the LGBTQ movement is addressing. i don't think that asexuals asserting the validity of their sexuality takes away from anything.

rrrobyn said to me once, after we had compared some of our woes, "We have to stop beating ourselves up for doing love wrong" and it was a pivotal moment for me, I must have been ready to hear it because it just flipped me over and out of blaming myself for absolutely everything. That was years ago tho and I'm still working on it, you know?

that's definitely a truth bomb that takes time to work its shrapnel into yr brain

i don't understand your position, eric. do you think it is inherently a problem to not be interested in sex? even if these people don't want to have an interest in sex?

Clearly, my deeply internalized anti-sex mechanisms have metastasized into stark raving insanity.

treeship when's the last time you heard about an asexual person being brutally murdered because of their orientation

you fucking child

I understand the "third date" cloud but I've always found waiting for "serious" attraction to develop a fool's game, as given the general antipathy between myself and other gay men, that's never going to happen. It hasn't so far.

So sleep on the first date always. Probably not a bad idea.

My sex drive is clearly going to kick in just when it's too late.

Elmo, I'm truly happy you have a healthy relationship and a rewarding sex life, I truly am.

Oh no wait, I actually want to murder you.

what? i think having little or no sex drive is only a problem because people don't have a concept for it, and so treat these people strangely if not with as much hostility as some other sexual minorities. the "pride" movement is about broadening people's understanding of the varieties of sexualities that exist in order that more people are not only "tolerated" but understood. makes total sense.

― Treeship, Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:21 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with the spirit of this but there's something about the endless niche-ing that feels like fighting fire w/ fire? so many generative dimensions to sexuality, feel like the important work is engaging with and expanding the limits of the rules as they are, forcing the hand of people who expect routine sex after three dates for instance and all the other clamped down management techniques. an outward engagement with others based on the common ground that sex/desire is not a compartment.

the stop blaming yourself for doing love wrong bit above is so crucial, thank you in orbit/rrrobyn

xp like there's only so much you can do w/ staking out an identity, it always elides the always-more-complicated larger view, the place where love/compassion/respect can do real work. imo

But, really, who else are you going to blame? Ergo, own up to your own problems and seek counseling like I plan on doing whenever I can figure out how to get insurance to pay for it.

Matt Otfm

xxxp otm that's what I meant, but better. It doesn't seem unreasonable, tho, that ppl who are still exploring the little space available to them would def go through at least a phase of latching onto validating labels/categories? This is patronizing, but it should be a stage and not a destination, probably?

i would preferred to be murdered in a non-sexual manner if it's all the same

I hate these unblurred lines

no Eric, sleep BEFORE the first date.

(no actual sleeping involved obv -- "I gotta get up early, where's the train again?")

I was direction that to Matt P who is writing posts of deep tolerance like a champ here.

(I inferred that part.)

I'm being super mean to people itt because I'm too nice to people irl.

these folks really test my ideological commitment to respect of others' subjectivities

― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:08 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

haha yes

So...a guy who prefers dinner, drinks, movies with friends and relatives and the occasional blow job to "relationships" and sexual commitment? Is there a label or is he just lucky?

Stop oppressing me.

what i don't get about asexuality is that sex, no matter with what gender or whatnot, is one of the biggest parts of being an adult. if you're gay or straight, you can both understand desire, lust, romantic love, etc. it sounds utterly horrible to be so apart from normal human experience like that. these people seem a little too comfortable just accepting it instead of trying to figure out what the living fuck is going on that they're missing out on one of the biggest parts of the human experience.

is there a part of the asexual community that is deeply trying to understand their condition? getting their hormones tested? getting CAT scans? because i'd be pretty freaked out if I didn't feel any sexual desire.

Read the motherfucking article at least?

I take it you're not the asexual spectrum then? xp

Actually, that spectrum is meant to cover all levels of orientation and desire.

Well that's how spectra work, yes, but let me have my dumb joke.

xxxp otm that's what I meant, but better. It doesn't seem unreasonable, tho, that ppl who are still exploring the little space available to them would def go through at least a phase of latching onto validating labels/categories? This is patronizing, but it should be a stage and not a destination, probably?

― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:42 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah for sure, i think there's a fine line between self-discovery/self-honesty and crystallizing some sort of presentation of the results of that honesty, and they have different social effects.

there's a fine line between self-discovery/self-honesty and crystallizing some sort of presentation of the results of that honesty

It's called the third date.

just skimming through the article and it's kind of like, sex has been so de-humanized and policed for hundreds of years, it chafes, news at 11

i guess my issue with this stuff is that it we're encourgaing some people to not deal with their shit. i've known hardcore "asexuals" who had serious intimacy/abuse issues or were struggling with their sexuality. later on they became freak-a-holics once they cleared that hurdle. i feel like we're encouraging some people to continue with unhealthy living by being way to loose with accepting chosen identities. i mean, it's up to them if they want to join the LGBT movement as "aces", but c'mon, i think a little skepticism is OK here.

potential causes of asexuality:

hormone levels
brain injuries
chromosomal issues
choice
child abuse/trauma/rape
issues with sexuality
spending too much time in isolation

and all of this should be brought under the umbrella of an identity that belongs side by side with the LGBT movement, African Americans, etc.? the cart's being put before the horse: instead of figuring out what is actually behind asexuality, people want all the benefits of being part of an outsider identity without deeply exploring what's going on with their sexuality. the whole thing stinks to high heaven. i'm sure there are genuinely asexual people out there, they should be respected, but doesn't seem like much work has been done to work this out cuz ... that doesn't seem to be the point.

i'm personally not interested in encouraging people to hide from their sexuality or demons behind a label, so til the day comes when the fine lines are worked out, i'm going to be skeptical of it.

people wanting to do or not do whatever whenever with whomever is just fine with me but endless fiddly taxonomy drives me up a wall. seems less like an effort at visibility, more like Taylorism or something.

bring back arranged marriages imo

i see how asexual as a term can be useful though as a way of saying 'desire outside of the lines' or something like that, desire as flux, maybe this is actually a good place to start, the people in the article seem pretty articulate and happy w it.

Yes, but are they happy that they can now hide behind a label? Lest I start sounding exactly like showroom models on behalf of sexual reorientation clinics, I myself have flirted with that sense of false security.

(Maybe I should spend more time flirting with people...)

Labels are not a problem when you're defining the label. When the label is defining you (or someone else is trying to label you), that's the problem.

lately i've been trying to deal with.. thinking i need sex more than my boyfriend does, and i'm starting to realize it's not that he doesn't desire as much as i do, it's that i'm conflating an act for desire in a way that tends to the compulsive, that there are roots there in how i've shut out desire from the rest of my existence when i was growing up, and i think desire for him is less channeled into sexy time per se. but then.. i can't go to sleep so i do that slightly weird thing of declaring that i'm going to jack off and we live happily ever after.

xp Eric hon i think there's absolutely nothing wrong with you besides you thinking there's something wrong with you.

xxp yes i agree with that snoball

You're being terribly tolerant, Matt P.

(Sorry, I usually direct my All About Eve quotes toward Alfred.)

(That was directed at your post to me, btw, not regarding your interactions with your boyfriend.)

lately i've been trying to deal with.. thinking i need sex more than my boyfriend does, and i'm starting to realize it's not that he doesn't desire as much as i do, it's that i'm conflating an act for desire in a way that tends to the compulsive, that there are roots there in how i've shut out desire from the rest of my existence when i was growing up, and i think desire for him is less channeled into sexy time per se. but then.. i can't go to sleep so i do that slightly weird thing of declaring that i'm going to jack off and we live happily ever after.

not to be glib, but it can also just mean you want an open relationship

my personal experience says that if you feel something is wrong for you or you feel uncomfortable, then it's not right for you. it might just be that moment, it might be something that applies to your life as a whole, but forcing things that are supposed to be universal into your relationship isn't going to make it work any better

I kind of thought at some points of my life this was an anxiety/cold feet thing, but it really wasn't.

You don't think anxiety plays a big part in it?

I think Spectrum isn't completely wrong in acknowledging that maybe some people identifying as asexual are just not comfortable with their sexuality or are using this as a way to not be more introspective, but it's also really insulting to say "something is physically or mentally wrong with you" if someone identifies as asexual.

Sexual identity is something we as a society trust to be self-defined -- whether you define yourself as straight, gay, etc. doesn't strictly define who you have had sex with, or even who you may decide to have sex with (or not).

anxiety plays a part in some things, but some relationships or social dynamics are just not for everyone? I mean, there's some social pressure now for gay couples to get married because it's an option, but I wouldn't tell anyone who was in a couple that they need to find the right partner or that they're somehow wrong because they don't want to get married.

Marriage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCu2mgoCP4

otm

I feel like a bunch of people might be too busy with work/dealing with a few personal problems/focussing on a project, at the moment, to pursue a sex life.

I mean, I know several people who are at this point, it's hardly uncommon. And people might well say, 'But why aren't you pursuing a sex life?', but they've got their reasons. Okay.

Calling it 'asexual' though and talking about it like you'd talk about being gay or bisexual - I dunno. I think there's been a mix-up somewhere.

idk, "I can't relate to this lifestyle and it can't really be real" or "I didn't have time and pretended I wasn't sexual, that is what this is" is kind of a bad look. We're just talking about an incredibly low as to be nonexistent sex drive, not people wanting to bang cartoon ponies

People identify as straight or gay and then realize they're actually the other. Doesn't make their lives any less real.

^

serious question: is there any actual scientific research on this phenomenon, or is a huffpost chart their shining moment thus far?

asexuality and esp. the "asexual spectrum" and the language that surrounds it rly interest me because they basically represent the next step (after homosexuality/heterosexuality) in creating fixed identities out of behaviors or desires that may previously have been experienced as contingent or fluid

Dear god let this be fluid.

flowing back toward youth and horniness

all the descriptions of asexuals i've found make them out to seem like boring, regular people ... but with a twist! the twist being something also shared by boring, normal people. i really don't know why this is getting me so worked up.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/91640-i-have-a-foot-fetish-does-this-affect-me-in-anyway-being-asexual/

this is the kind-of shit. this person sounds like they're worried about being kicked out of the asexuality club for liking feet... and other people act like this is a perfectly normal line of thinking. totally backwards reasoning. god i need a life.

thanks wolverine

Yo just to course correct, it is not the case that self-identified asexual pl have always have low or no "sex drive," although we could be here all day probably defining "sex drive." From the article:

"People may ask, 'How can they be asexual if they masturbate?' I admit the finding did surprise me, too," said Brotto, the director of the University of British Columbia's Sexual Health Laboratory. "When you talk about masturbation, you may think of it as a sexual activity, but actually masturbation is not inherently sexual. [Asexuals cite] boredom, stress reduction, helping them to get to sleep, etc., as reasons behind masturbation."

Brotto's study indicates, however, that these lower levels are not caused by an "impaired psychophysiological sexual arousal response." As one asexual put it, "everything works, we just don't want to get somebody else involved."

Tellingly, most asexuals who masturbate say they rarely think about another person during the act, and even when they do, it's in a non-sexual context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foH7NC_V70Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYEirOe5Lrg

evidently we could also be here all day defining "sexual act"

Does that really come as a surprise? It shouldn't.

did i sound surprised?

when asexuals come do they come as a surprise

xp to myself heh ok i guess i made the mistake of not reading the article itself

they come as they are

Demisexuals, explained Gwendolyn M., a 25-year-old designer who lives in Honolulu, are people who do not experience sexual attraction toward others unless and until they forge a very strong emotional -- and usually romantic -- connection.

Gwendolyn, who identifies as a panromantic demisexual, has been in a relationship with a sexual man for the past seven years. She says the bond generally takes a very long time to form, and even when it does, sex is possible, but it still remains relatively peripheral.

"I do have regular sex, and it is pretty nice," she said. "And I do feel some sexual desire under special circumstances … but I enjoy a lot of the sex with him only very partially from my own sexual desire, which is minimal. It's really from this secondary sexual desire, this desire to make him happy, that makes it enjoyable. That desire is a powerful force that stems from the head, rather than my libido. I don't hunger for sex the way other people might."

this...sounds like a normal person to me

sorry for use of "normal"

Gray-A's, on the other hand, are people who identify more generally in the gray zone between asexuality and sexuality. These include individuals who don't typically experience sexual attraction, as well as people who can desire and enjoy sex but only under very specific circumstances.

"Sexuality is so fluid, and Gray-A presents more of a possibility to be unsure. I don't understand all the intricacies of myself yet, so this is the closest approximation I've come up with," said Chris Maleney, an 18-year-old Pennsylvania high school student who identifies as Gray-A.

...

a lot of these ppl basically just have social anxiety disorder right

I completely lost my sex drive about six years ago at the age of 22 and it hasn't come back. I had my blood tested but there's nothing wrong with me medically. Honestly, I'm not sure whether to see it as a problem or just accept it. I did have problems with depression in my early 20s and it's certainly possible that it could be related to that. Thing is, my depression eased off but my desire never really came back. To a certain extent you don't miss what you don't feel. On the other hand, I do wonder what it would be like to feel that sort of desire again as I've forgotten it now.
I can't say I've any desire to attach myself to any identity movement. I haven't faced any discrimination, just one or two socially awkward situations like when a well-meaning friend started prodding me about not finding myself a girlfriend and I wasn't able to tell them the truth. I can see that it's possible I would be better off having these feelings again, but I'm not exactly sure what I could do about it.

asexuality and esp. the "asexual spectrum" and the language that surrounds it rly interest me because they basically represent the next step (after homosexuality/heterosexuality) in creating fixed identities out of behaviors or desires that may previously have been experienced as contingent or fluid

― 1staethyr, Tuesday, August 27, 2013 10:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

a lot of these ppl basically just have social anxiety disorder right

― k3vin k., Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean if the end goal is to pathologize all behavior, why settle for big tents like sad/gad

xp only if you think of your position on the spectrum as being permanently fixed (which it isn't)

or that it should be

i mean if the end goal is to pathologize all behavior, why settle for big tents like sad/gad

― max, Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:22 AM (3 hours ago)

this sounds like a terrible goal!

i think identifying these different positions on this spectrum as equally valid variations of human sexuality is the opposite of pathologizing

Sexual identity is something we as a society trust to be self-defined

"Society" as a whole has not fully agreed on this yet.

know a guy who apparently told plenty of people he was asexual, but most of those people are pretty sure that he's gay and in denial about it.

― what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I didn't know you knew Morrissey!

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:27 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I basically identify as an ace, I guess. And it's not that I don't have sexual desires but that I don't want to have sexual relationships (so I am different from other aces in that regard). And an ilxor can tell me oh maybe you just have social anxiety if they want and I can politely tell them that maybe they should just tend to their own lives.

Ilxors come off like the equivalent of a bunch of homophobes on this thread, basically. Sorry I and others don't conform to your worldview.

Sorry if I'm generalizing - there are some thoughtful posts on this thread, but man...

there's nothing wrong with being asexual whatsoever - any stigma usually has more to do with the insecurities of the person casting the stone. and I apologize for dredging up bad feelings.

i can see how my comment could be perceived as insensitive, so i apologize

(i have social anxiety btw)

I came across as rather insensitive on this thread and haha joke's on me, turns out that I was an aromantic asexual in denial. In retrospect I was a grey in my late teens and twenties, gradually becoming darker and darker grey in my thirties, until it reached a point a few years ago when I had to admit to myself that I was asexual. The concious turning point was when I realised that by far the main reason I wanted to be in a relationship was so that people would stop asking me why I wasn't in a relationship.

looking back on it i was mean-spirited in this thread. sorry about that.

Ilxors come off like the equivalent of a bunch of homophobes on this thread, basically. Sorry I and others don't conform to your worldview.

― timellison, Wednesday, August 31, 2016 5:23 AM (thirteen hours ago)

Seriously. Ilx0rs of seven years ago, you were being dicks.

historically this board has been a little judgmental about TMI matters, particularly when something brings up a squick reaction, but i'd like to think folks here have gotten a little more open-minded over the years

Yeah, I also think as we have an ageing population, we're a little less likely to just find this sort of stuff material for puerile jokes and more likely to try to understand.

personally i have difficulty drawing a meaningful differentiation between asexuality and hypoactive sexual desire disorder, because hsdd only ever seem to come up in the context of relationships. would it be wrong to say that an asexual is, in many cases, a single person with hsdd?

sure, one can say that someone with hsdd might _want_ a relationship more than an asexual, but "want" becomes a complicated thing when one has hsdd. desire for emotional connection is offset by fear of being judged as inadequate. a lot of the driving force becomes fear of loneliness (never a healthy basis for a relationship).

The wikipedia page on hsdd specifies that personal distress at the individual's perspective on sexuality must be present. It also talks about criticism of the disorder that links it to earlier attempts to define homosexuality in this way. "It may also over pathologize normal variation in sexuality because the parameters of normality are unclear."

moderate masturbators pride mvmt

every sexual minority likes to compare themselves to homosexuals and while i don't want to dismiss the comparison out of hand i think perhaps they are a little too facile about it. i don't have to worry about getting fired from my job for not having sex. nobody's ever told me i was going to hell for not having sex. the worst you can say is that it's grounds for divorce, but nobody's needed actual grounds for divorce in my lifetime.

Nevertheless, AVEN's goal of more visibility, awareness, and acceptance is something I fully support.

Ilxors come off like the equivalent of a bunch of homophobes on this thread, basically. Sorry I and others don't conform to your worldview.

― timellison, Wednesday, August 31, 2016 5:23 AM (thirteen hours ago)

apologies for my own dumb contribution to this thread tim. striving to be less ignorant/more sensitive about such matters