Dealing with alcoholics/addicts in the family.

My mother is an alcoholic and it's pissing me off. She finally admitted it to herself about a year ago but lately she has been finding excuses not to go to meetings (some proper- she had the dentist last week at the same time) and this weekend she relapsed and couldn't even recognise my older sister. My pregnant sister has told her she isn't even sure if she wants her to see her first grandson when he's born. She lives in a residence where they also have rolling carers who usually takes her to her meetings but they are too easy to give in when she doesn't feel like it and so from now on I'm going to go with her every Wednesday on the bus and wait outside (it's a 1-on-1 drop-in, not the group hug scenario off the telly).

I don't even really know the point of this thread, I just want to vent. It's not the first time it's happened and it just makes everyone who's trying to help her recover feel like shit. Anyone else gone through it? Got any tips?

Also, law folk on ilx- my grandad is going to die any minute within the next couple years due to cancer and heart attacks etc. and she is likely to inherit a big ol' wad of thousands when his house is sold and such. She's already in the process of going bankrupt because of her situation but 1. if she goes bankrupt and then inherit large sums straight after, she'll still have to pay all her debts, right? 2. as no-one really trusts her (see this weekend), is it possible to stop her getting thousands straight away to blow and i dunno, give her an allowance of it every week until she dies (that no-one else can touch obv, it's her money)?

Anyone else gone through it?

yep

Got any tips?

sorry, none. unless cutting her off is an option. this lessened the day to day distresses, but long term it's hard to square with myself sometimes.

re: the inheritance- it may not be a parallel, but if she inherits a house, make sure somebody insures it. that's bitter experience talking.

I don't have any tips for you Samuel. I just want to express my commisseration and to vent that I actually for the first time in my life felt like going to Al-Anon this weekend due to my in-laws and all their dysfunctions.

AHH - Just saw this and can't respond now - meeting. However, I have a lot of experience with this and know how awful and difficult it is to deal with. Just wanted to say that quickly. Back to write more later.

(btw - specifically w/ my mom which I think can be particularly hard for some reason)

In my grandads will I believe everything is split 50/50 between her and my uncle, so it's all just being sold, as much to pay his debts as hers. The place is a Kim&Aggie-esque mess in itself and dealing with my grandad is a whole other trauma that I have had to take charge with myself (being unemployed and having to time to do so, although my uncle is helping at weekends and taking him to appointments because I don't drive).

Can't cut her off, I only see her twice a week. I have got in a routine of sweeping her place to see if she's hidden anything though, as we are decorating at the moment I can do it without just looking like an arse.

She hadn't a drink in like 2 months and was doing really well 'tis the thing. She even saved up loads of undrunk money to spend on the babby and seemed genuinely happy for the first time in ages.

Also, cheers!

She hadn't a drink in like 2 months and was doing really well 'tis the thing. She even saved up loads of undrunk money to spend on the babby and seemed genuinely happy for the first time in ages.

getting your hopes up is the worst, but the alternative is never to have hope for the other person, which is no alternative at all.

Hi Samuel. I have no experience in any situation like this, but all sympathy.

As regards the inheritance, I don't speak from a position of expertise, but in general it'd be her money and those are her debts, and unless she's incapable there's probably no reason why she shouldn't deal with them like any other human being, unpalatable as that may be. Having said that:
1. inheritances can be cut off at the source. Your grandfather, if still capable, can change his will. Obviously whether he would, and whether you can raise it, depends on the relationship. But even if it feels impossible, he may still be receptive if it meant the money staying in the family rather than going to creditors;
2. it's worth sounding this out fully for your own piece of mind anyway. I'd suggest a Citizens' Advice Bureau, they probably have enough knowledge of areas like this. Or you could run it past a solicitor. Do it quickly though - if there is in fact be something you can do, you need to know about it so you can get cracking before it's too late.

My grandmother was a raging alcoholic. On top of that a total bitch (still is) and unfit mother. I can't advise much except I feel for you. The heartache and emotional damage thunders through the entire family. As a result I have little sympathy for my grandmother. I see my father still suffering even though he was never raised by her. Even if you cut off ties completely, the damage won't disappear. It's something you just have to live with. Have you contemplated attending meetings? I know such support groups exist. They might know the best coping mechanisms.

I don't want to. Presuming (hopefully!) I can get a job soon enough and get out of this shithole town, she won't have me around to help her to meetings or be in them. More than anything I am trying to get her in a position where she can look after herself.

yeah, definitely talk to your grandfather and go to a lawyer with him. he would probably suggest you can change the will & set up a trust that doles out to her periodically. so she would still get all she's entitled to. sorry this is happening to you.

Honestly, I do think the best thing for you would be cutting all ties. But I know that is easier said than done. Dealing with addicts is extremely difficult.

We actually and naively tried 'relapse again and we'l cut you out of our lives' a couple months back but it just left her getting more depressed and more of a suicide risk. It didn't work and when we are all communicating then you can see signs of improvement and less self-loathing all around.

man this is bringing me back. really sorry you're going through this.

My alcoholic sister contacted me last week for the first time in almost three years. She is still a complete wreck and in need of treatment for mental issues on top of her drinking problem. I'm trying to be a little optimistic about her contacting me and other family memebers and view it as part of an attempt to begin the process of piecing her life back together, but I don't think she's up for it yet.

Hey AHH - I webmailed you. :-)

Thanks Erica. :) This thread has been good actually, a need to vent can never hurt. (Still, combine my mother's drinking, my dad's gastric band and my grandfather's attempt to be the dirtiest fucking person ever has unfortunately been the best examples of how to live properly, almost obsessively so. Also has turned me into a wreck who has seemingly lost most social skills trying to help a bunch of people who are too busy trying to kill themselves, but you can't win them all.)

I belive I started a similar thread a couple years back when things were really bad w/ mom btw and it did help at the time iirc.

whoa, that sucks man. i remember how much i cried when i realized you can't save everybody. and how much less stressful life became when i finally realized that although i have some investment in some people's personal lives ulitmately it is not my problem, it is theirs. i do what i can and go to sleep with no regrets. i don't know if that helps but one must live their own life.

I belive I started a similar thread a couple years back when things were really bad w/ mom btw and it did help at the time iirc.

i think i stopped using ilx competely! don't recommend that to a hoy hoy obviously.

Churchill really has the right attitude: you can help but being dragged into the mess is detrimental to both you and the sufferer. It doesn't help anyone. If you can't do that, it's best to step away. But I know that's easier said than done. I see that with my dad who still from time to time try to have some form of relationship with his mother.

my grandfather's attempt to be the dirtiest fucking person ever has unfortunately been the best examples of how to live properly, almost obsessively so.

I think that is spot on. My father was abused and as a result he never once lay a finger on me. Never EVER. Doesn't even cross his mind. He's the best dad (as a result). He loves children so much. Too bad he couldn't have more. Whereas my grandmother had too many. (Even one would have been too many.)

A Hoy Hoy, vent all you want. It's good to let it out.

The more I think about the idea of a trust, the more I think that it might be a goer - it sounds like a sensible way of managing a windfall to an unreliable person, though I do not know whether it is a cast-iron way of keeping money away from the creditors. Seeing a solicitor is definitely the thing to do. It's your grandad that has to do it as it's his will and his money, but you can badger him and go along for support - sell it to him as a way of keeping his wealth from going directly to creditors.

A high street solicitor will do - wills are one of their main areas. Get your/your grandad's priorities down on paper and send a proper letter of instruction before you go. It will cost a few hundred quid to sort out, but that has to be worth it if bottoms out whether there is a way of keeping the money in-family.

Oh, I def. want her bills to be paid before anything. Sometimes you just have to take responsibility for the shit you got yourself into.

Also, grandad currently can't walk to due massive tumour and being prone to a third heart attack any second.

I love my life.

i think at this stage impersonating him and engaging in fraud is the only solution. we won't judge you, man.

I appreciate that xp, but if she's going bankrupt anyway she might as well do so without a lump sum coming in her direction, otherwise it just turns into a windfall for stupid lenders.

Have agreed to go with her to her meetings on Mondays and wait outside. Anything to get her going. Importantly, we agreed she'd get the bus here (i live with my dad, not her) and then I'd jump on and go to town with her; hopefully this means that when I leave the area she is used to getting on the bus on her own and going.

All's I can say is, if you haven't already, go to an Al-Anon meeting and talk with other people who are in similar situations. The focus there is on you and not the alcoholic or addict. It's founded on four C's, that you aren't the cause of the disease, that you can't control the disease, you can't cure the disease, and that you yourself have choices.

And -- and this is the part that can be tougher -- accepting that you can't control the person who has the disease.

She goes to a 1-on-1 thing called Turning Points, not an AA.

I'm just saying as far as taking care of yourself through all of this, finding a meeting and learning from others who have been through similar situations could be a big help.

Cheers. Yeah, I may do so. Talking to people on here who have been through similar has been pretty helpful.

Samuel - I didn't go to Al-Anon but I agree that it could only help. I did go over this a lot in individual therapy which was invaluable. You get my webmail btw?

If a lawyer can come to your grandfather's house to set up a trust, that would be good. Is he worried about her? A trust could be presented to him as the only possible way of reliably providing for her.

I have a brother that we have to do this for. An addicted, angry, self-justifying money-sink, his wife even worse. At 60 he's still one big open sore over his mean step-father (who's been dead over 20 years) and is determined to make our mother pay and pay. She's pretty demented at this point, so my sister and I have to finesse the trust—get it all fine-tuned so all my mom has to do is sign.

I don't really know how he feels about it. Today he was able to walk around the house when I was there and I got there while the nurse was taking a blood test and she said he was doing a lot better, so I'm starting to think he's not going to drop dead tomorrow, or at least give us (me, my mum, my uncle and my siblings have all kind of mentioned it) some time to figure out what action to take.

If you have a reasonable uncle, he should probably bring it up with your grandfather. He should be motivated, too, as your mom is probably going to come to him for a loan after she runs through the money.

Her disability and housing benefit covers more than everything, especially once she goes bankrupt. Now she's not drinking, she is spending like a normal person- a bottle of vodka a day adds up! He's pretty great tbh, he has shitty kids and his wife left him and took all his money and left him in loads of debt but he's still working hard on trying to keep everyone's heads above water. He's pretty busy at the moment sorting things with the hospital and paying for skips and etc. etc. etc. for my grandad but once the cleaning of the house and selling his cars/van/etc. happens, everything will be a lot calmer and we can work on these things without distraction.

Talking of sorting the house, next weekend we are going to be doing the garden. It genuinely is a forest. A FREAKING FOREST. I will take pictures (in fact I feel a missed opportunity not taking pictures with the rest of the place for some real before and after magic track moments.)

you seem like a nice young man with a good outlook and i approve in general.

Just been told my grandad got bored today, tried driving, crashed and drove away and now has been summoned by the Oxfordshire police (wtf, different county, he could barely walk yesterday) tomorrow morning for fleeing the accident. Uncle taking him tomorrow morning.

Just glad it was a car he hit and not a child, tbh.

How old is he? Maybe he shouldn't be driving. Maybe since there's been an accident the police will take it out of your hands, which would be good. It's no fun persuading old folks not to drive.

I got my mother to stop by using the following line (after all my logical/moral arguments failed):

"I am just the mouthpiece asking you to stop—but EVERY PERSON WHO KNOWS YOU agrees with me."

That got her. Not "YOUR life will be over soon, but mine will go on for a while and I will have to live with my guilt if I fail to stop you from driving and you hurt someone." I thought that was an EXCELLENT argument, but she just replied, "Well, I'm NOT going to hurt anyone!" Total denial of her blindness, deafness and cognitive losses.

He is in his 70s. After his heart attack he was supposed to go for a thing where they monitor his fitness and whether he'll be able to drive and such (i think it was supposed to be this coming friday) but I guess that's not needed now.

I had talked to bloody everyone I know, incl. him about not driving again. I even joked to my mum about slashing his tires. But everyone just looked at me crazy and more than one person told me "Oh, you don't drive, you don't know how it would feel not to drive again, he should be able to keep this one freedom." (Before all this he was a removals guy and a fucking unsafe driver anyway, has been known to find himself in a ditch).

"my mother is an alcoholic and it's pissing me off"

this is a beautiful first line

hey samuel, i have no experience with this, but i hope everything turns out okay

cheers mane.

That "oh how terrible to lose one's independence" line is such shit. People who get killed by your blind obstinate ass are losing their independence in a big way.

I think this may have cured any depression that might have been setting in:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/168965529_81dc4e52d3.jpg

Thank you, ilx.

dealing with john justen dancing in the family

wait till you see the animated gif.

there is an animated gif? omg, praise jesus.

http://www.barrylutz.com/page/3/

i have some experience with this, but the circumstances were so specific that i probably don't have much of use to contribute. the one thing i'd say is that in dealing with both friends and family, it has seemed to me that all the cliches about "enabling" are really true. it's not that cutting people off to whatever extent is possible will necessarily lead to a turnaround -- but it's definitely the case that even if someone might have either the inclination or the capacity to get their shit together, they are much less likely to do so as long as nobody really forces them to. being presented with really stark choices can pull some people back from the abyss. (and of course a big part of tough love is the "love" -- that they know there will be huge support for them if/when they are ready to try to change their behaviors, whether that's in a week or a year.)

Don't you think that drunken assholes just turn into sober assholes? Either way you'd rather they stayed away. That AA "apology" thing is so jive. How uncomfortable for the person receiving the apology! Great. Apologize now for your discomforting apology.

Since becoming sober my sister has committed numerous apology-worthy offenses toward me, but I guess she doesn't have to apologize because the important thing is her continued sobriety.

I've got a lot of this in my family (my wife does too, so our kids will be doomed) but a lot of it is kind of removed and distant so it hasn't really affected me that much. My dad's parents were wrecks and I only know a little bit about them, when horrible bits of history get dropped in conversation from time to time. My wife's great uncle finally succeeded in drinking himself to death a couple of years ago but that was a long time coming. Before that her mom's father also died of alcoholism.

But in the last couple of years it has come out that my mom's younger brother, who was at one point my favorite uncle and lived with us for a while when I was a little kid, has been addicted to various prescription drugs. For years he's seemed to be in a pretty dysfunctional marriage and was becoming stranger and more distant, but I chalked it up to his crazy immediate family, job stress, distance, etc. I've kind of lost touch for the most part. I found out about him being an addict only after he got out of rehab and my mom dumped all this on me over the phone.

The fun part is that he's a doctor, so he got away with it for so long by being a respectable professional with a stressy job, so his weird car accidents and strange behaviors were glossed over. It all finally stopped when the DEA rolled in and called him on some shady prescriptions and missing drugs from the clinic pharmacy.

I like to think that he got the best possible outcome from this - he was forced into a rehab geared towards doctors, stripped of his prescription writing abilities and access to (legal) drugs, and has a seriously intensive follow-up procedure - for the next five years, he's got to drive two hours once a week to a clinic in a major city for a drug test, has to call to check in every 24 hours, and is subject to random drug testing at any point at any time. I believe that someone can show up at his house and ask for hair or urine at any time with no warning. In some ways it kind of disgusts me that wealthy white doctors get this kind of treatment while your average crack addict gets jail and maybe some piss-poor rehab as a followup, but he's my uncle.

Bah. I haven't seen him since all this happened and I don't know what to say when I do. I don't know when I will see him again because we live at opposite ends of the country. I think I'm more troubled by this than I initially thought I was, but, again, it's distant and not something that I've had to deal with face-to-face yet.

xpost One drunken asshole in my family turned into a sober asshole, but that was a big improvement.

x-post re: my sister—Actually, she's constantly apologizing for things that aren't even on my radar. Like leaving dinner early because she has to wake up at 5:00 for work, and then writing me a three-page longhand letter because she thinks she offended me.

But the truly hostile things remain unremarked-on.

She lives five miles from me and I see her on Christmas and Thanksgiving.

Joygoat—Your doctor uncle—YIKES! But don't worry that you or your kids are doomed. One of my best friend's dad drank himself to death, and she's the most level-headed person I know, a moderate drinker with no addiction demons at all.

Don't you think that drunken assholes just turn into sober assholes?

I don't think this has to be the case.

A dear friend of mine was at risk of drowning in alcoholism altogether after a bad break-up he had. The hurt just didn't go away for him, not even after a year. He always drank a lot, but both the endless sadness and the massive intake of alcohol made it unbearable. Tried everything - being very near for a long time from staying away completely. What it took for him to 'sober up' and get his act together was that if he kept this up, he'd be sacked. Because he wasn't functioning in his job anymore, and everyone could see (and smell) why... I guess they showed him what his future would be if he stayed on the bottle. He'd be out of work. And it wasn't a threat made by his employer, it was just what it was. He would be jobless, that's it. They gave him a week off to reflect on all this. And he sobered up. Graduall, but nonetheless. And he didn't even turn into a sober asshole too :) All I'm saying that in this case, the one thing that made him steer back on track again and face his problems, was the prospect of "loss". In this case the loss of his job (which at the time basically was the only thing he had too).

Samuel, all the best to you in this man.

Don't you think that drunken assholes just turn into sober assholes?

interesting point. after more than 20yrs of zero contact, my older brother is back in contact with his alcoholic father (not my dad, but he was with our mum for a few years after i was born), as well as his extended fam on that side. suddenly they're all long-lost-awesome-happy-families. my brother is a dick anyways and i don't have any kind of relationship with him anymore, but i was looking at photos of my nieces on his bebo profile and saw a photo with his 'new' family. really wanted to leave a comment like: "that old guy in the middle looks kind of familiar... oh wait that's the guy who used to get drunk and psychologically and physically torture our mother every night. oh AND he used to beat the shit out of you too! way to go!"

i don't even know if his dad IS sober now, but even if he is... i mean, fuck, this guy didn't just get drunk and rage, he'd do really horrific stuff to my mother that was just evil.

I'm not actually too worried about theoretical kids, but they would have alcoholism/addiction in their genes from all four sides.

Le Bateau, your friend doesn't sound like he was an asshole while he was a drunkard. Just sad and self-destructive.

Oh man, I'm glad I don't have to go through shit like that just1n3; still, if they've made it you'd hope it all came out alright in the end.

Re: theoretical kids- I know I have been drinking more in these past two years while alone (not binging, just the occasional whisky or two) and I'm scared of them adding up. I'm even thinking of giving it all up, but while I'm going through a pretty large diet change I figure I'll get used to one thing at a time. I don't think, from experience anyway, that these traits nec. pass on unless under horrible circumstances (abuse etc.) and they may even learn from seeing the shit people go through while addicted to whatever. (I certainly have! Morbidly obese dad and alcoholic mother = me eventually going vegan and possibly going teetotal.)

Well, yeah, that rings true. He was an obnoxious, mean-spirited guy when drunk though, but that all sprouted from his sadness and self-destrive feelings, true. But it still, for me, meant dealing with someone who shouts and curses and threw stuff at me, when at 5 am I was merely at his place to try and calm him down and make him feel/be better. The cops eventually knew they had to call me when he was playing his music at banging volume again and crying so much the neighbours protested. But being an asshole was a way of channeling those deeper feelings I believe.

xp

self-destrUCTive

Don't you think that drunken assholes just turn into sober assholes?

sometimes, but not always. I was a drunken asshole and now I'm sober and not as big an asshole, I'm pretty sure.

I second/third/fourth the recommendation that you should go to AlAnon. Also keep in mind that everything is easier said than done; it's likely you won't be able to 'cut ties' with your mother, or do everything 100%. That's fine, do what you can, and try not to suffer the results, because nothing that happens ultimately in this is your responsibility.

ya, alcohol can really exacerbate & amplify whatever meanness a person may harbor, which is often rooted in the same personal insecurity they harbor b/c of their drinking. remove the problem ingredient & the feedback loop stops.

Inhibition can be good!

Rang her at 9am to see when she wanted to go to her drop-in meeting place and she was pissed as a fart. Unfortunately have to go see her later, I left my inhalor round there and of all the days for my asthma to kick in.

:(

Oy vey. Or, as a friend of mine says, covering all bases, Oy Jesus.

Wednesday morning, doctor informs us it will be sooner rather than later that grandad will drop.

Ever since, mother has been drunk even though we could all see it coming. Going to see her this morning.

In other news, brother has just defriended me on facebook for asking why he called obama a socialist and because i called him a racist.

<3 my family.

Also am going to the doctor to ask about therapy on the nhs because fuck this shit.

I just finally started therapy this month to start really trying to deal with my dad's alcoholism. He's been one as long as I can remember, which is really making therapy interesting because we'll talk about something I hadn't thought about in years and now realize that "whoa, this really wasn't how everyone's family worked". Anyway, we'll see how it goes. My dad is on his fourth try at sobriety (going on about two years now, I think) and while many of his more destructive qualities have subsided, there are still some assholish traits that are embedded so deeply he will never lose them.

hey jon *fist bump of depressing family circumstances* bro.

Thanks. Good luck with the therapy, I put it off far too long and I'm already finding it v v v helpful.

'Twas prescribed 2 weeks worth of Sertraline and told to go back then. :) In other news, no-one has been able to get in touch with my mother for the past two days. Of course she has a daily carer who is supposed to notify us if she dies or breaks her leg or whatever, so I presume it's a case of too drunk to open the door or answer the phone.

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

It's not like she hasn't been warned. If she's pissed, she is not seeing her first grandchild. And it's not like she had time to get pissed before we got the news, we all got word at 6.30am that my sis had gone into labour.

I went to see her at 11 so we could go see my grandad after news he's got even worse. She seemed a bit odd but could talk ok and i just thought it was anxiety at seeing him. But she nearly walked in front of a car and made a fuss over trying to call out an ambulance when she saw him even though he was ok (considering). By the time we got back to hers, I popped out for 5 minutes to get batteries for the camera when we go see my sis later and when I came back she couldn't even finish a sentence except when it was her drunken catchphrase "I'm fine." Even when complaining about intense pains I'd ask her if she wanted some painkillers and it was "I'm fine." Even if she wasn't pissed, she wasn't in any state to go see a newborn.

FUCKING HELL.

Still, I refuse to let it spoil my day so I'm ranting now and leaving it behind me.

go enjoy yr niece/nephew. congrats.

Just killing time until we get the phonecall. I was thinking of buying him the album was #1 when he was born but Editors suck. And then I thought, maybe a newspaper but I don't really want to give this mixed race baby a giant picture of a facist cuntbag who believes he shouldn't have been born.

buy it. it'll be a good history lesson for him, and something for him to show off to his mates about when they ask 'nick who?'

Why not take some photos of mundane street scenes when you're on your way to the hospital? It's the kind of thing that'll be boring as hell to him until he starts getting old, but might be quite cool thereafter.

I may do so! "This is Reading when you were born. We were deep into a recession so we could only use this thing they called Primarni to buy our slave-made clothes and here is the McDonalds your father used to love so much. And here, the shitty football team but don't worry about that because your father was luckily a gooner and your uncle takes you to the emirates on the sweet sweet wage he will be earning at his at-the-time non-existent job."

"haha, those fashions - check out this moron, he looks like a girl!"
"uh, that's me"

Haha, I shouldn't have booked my haircut for next week. :P

dealing with gooners in the family imo

there are only 3 of us in a family of 14 spuds. My uncle Steve is still disappointed in my choice of team.

i'm still disappointed in my choice of team, but shit happens irl imo

Che (needs a little accent but I don't know how to do it) W1lliam Samu3l Gr33nidge is the just the greatest thing ever. Determined to make sure his family life is way better than ours ever was. Bought it a paper in the end. Dad bought my mother even though she was drunk on collection and found with a water bottle full of vodka and now I refuse to speak to her unless she's going regularly to meetings and sober for a prolonged period.

:):):):):):):):)

Ché :) :)

So my grandad died during the night. I don't really know how to feel. I've never had a close relationship with him, we've more or less had one of those superficial "talk about sports" relationships. And then I feel bad that I don't feel more? Hmmm.

that's not a silly thing to feel bad about, as long as you don't beat yourself up over it. sorry anyway.

good luck dealing with the money stuff now.

image overload of what my grandads place looks like as of this weekend:
http://i46.tinypic.com/lkwvc.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/t7fhna.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2012d92.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2luuext.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/10pxf9v.jpg fyi this is the picture of his half acre garden from head height, taken looking through the window
http://i47.tinypic.com/sos60w.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/svmbl0.jpg anyone want a giant picture? there is one about the same size behind it
http://i49.tinypic.com/2rpdv01.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/27y8j8h.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/i5oftk.jpg

hmm, a couple didn't load. i guess that is enough as is. hate that place.

are you clearing it out?

yes. most of it anyway. he used to own a toy shop and just never got rid of the leftover stock so a lot of it we are just trying to find someone to buy wholesale, if we can't it'll get chucked. he was also an antiques removals man, so there are fuck load of things he just happened to leave on the back of his van we need to get checked out (this saturday i found a picnic basket full of goergian silver for example, and those paintings). the garden will just provide a cool wdyll w/ a chainsaw. either way :(

this is after about 3 months of cleaning and clearing btw. for example, the kitchen/bathroom is in a normal, 'livable' state and i didn't take any pictures. maybe i should of the bath, which is full to the ceiling of cardboard boxes and sack trucks tho.

sounds like a jumble sale opportunity par excellence

heh or you could just be everybody's secret santa. anyone wants to participate has to paypal you p&p costs.

id be cool w/ that. you could all end up with some good swag.

hmm can we actually make this happen?

I'll take the bike bottom-right in the last picture, please.

i dont know if staples do a package that big, but ok.

heh i've provisionally landed you in it samuel.

hmm can we actually make this happen?

― Louis Cll (darraghmac), Tuesday, 1 December 2009 11:25 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'll go around there later this week and see whats on offer. it will v. much be lucky dip, so while some may end up w/ wedding rings, some may get a cuddly toy

hire a JCB and do it like a giant version of those grabby things you get at fairgrounds

f this woman btw

I'm sorry dude.

Cheers.

Meh. She was getting better again and I was supposed to be taking her to the hospital for some physio on the arm she fucked up when she fell over drunk but what ya know? She doesn't think it's Thursday!

So instead I am here, playing football manager and learning geetar.

playing football manager and learning geetar

dealing with it in time honoured darraghmac tradition iirc

ps

My mother is an alcoholic and it's pissing me off.

i still like this opening line- not in a way that trivialises the problems or anything, but it's good to vent & acknowledge that y'know, there's human responses you have to your mother's behaviour that you shouldn't feel too guilty about.

some physio on the arm she fucked up when she fell over drunk

Same thing happened to a relative of mine, although she was really good about doing her therapy, but it was a nightmare dealing with her when she was mixing booze and pain pills.

Attn, old people: You are less able to process drugs + alcohol, plus your bodies are more fragile!

attn old people- we're conditioned to maybe having to look after you when we're in our forties, but if you can avoid it while we're in our teens/twenties it'd be appreciated.

fuck yeah, i've got a job interview tomorrow, i don't have time to deal w/ her fuck ups. i've got to prepare (only for it to go out of the window w/ some sort of anxiety attack early on). plus i got city in the cup and have 3 injured centre halfs .

jack wilshere will surely make all your problems disappear as dust in the wind

Also injured so I am using Argentine wonderkid centre forward German Blanco out of position on the right and Cesc at centre half (I figure he's so good that it doesn't matter where he plays.)

newsflash- you are the problem, not the solution. also, get 1 physio, there is a search functino with filters and everything to do this iirc.

i have 4!

http://i47.tinypic.com/2vci5fm.jpg

also lol many former great right backs as coaches aka *the pat rice system*.

you have 4, one of whom has a good reputation, and he earns half of what one of the others does.

manager extraordinaire you may be, HR guru you ain't

Eh, dude has never complained and will get a v. large raise when his contract comes up.

HR guru you ain't

sack the overpaid minnow, rule thru fear imo

Ugh. Definitely get drunk an hour before you're supposed to watch my kid in the middle of the day and then when his mother calls you on it, start telling stories about how you used to have to pick her up from jail when she was a kid. Also cuss a lot. Then pretend that it never happened the next day and that you are the aggrieved party.

I didn't grow up with this kind of thing. My family wasn't perfect, but it was as close to the Cleavers as I've ever seen. God help me, I love my girl, but sometimes I feel like I should have held out for someone with a nonpsychotic family.

I'm so sad right now. Thanks for letting me vent, ilx.

its ok duke. fuck her, especially if she was supposed to look after her nephew/niece.

God help me, I love my girl, but sometimes I feel like I should have held out for someone with a nonpsychotic family

have lost pretty decent girlfriends over this, btw.

I avoided this thread when it first popped up because I thought it would be too painful an experience but I really need it right now.

My sister has struggled with addiction to painkillers for at least a couple years. Valuables kept disappearing from our house and my sister went through all sorts of suspicious behavior beyond the usual rebelious teenager hijinks until last summer when she decided to come clean, admitting that she and her boyfriend were both addicted to Oxycontin but wanted to get clean together. She also admitted she had suffured from bullimia. My parents made a deal with her: she would go to rehab under her condition that everything was kept hush from our extended family. When I was helping my grandfather repaint his house during the time she was rehabbing, he'd ask how my sister was doing and I'd just have to kind of roll my eyes and say something like, "Oh, she's doing fine, just up to her usual trouble." Around this same time, her boyfriend went to jail for selling weed.

When she got out of rehab, she seemed in good health and spirits for about a week, when she started to revert back to her same old suspicious habits. At this point, I decided I couldn't take it anymore and made the decision to move to another state, where she couldn't follow or find me, as quickly as I could. No huge surprise, but within a couple weeks after I left the house, a bunch of the posessions I'd had to leave behind turned up missing. This was the final straw for my parents and they kicked her out of the house. She bounced around with friends for a while before my parents readmitted her. After this she kept moving in and out as she kept having spats with my parents or had no other place to stay. I've only seen or talked to her twice since moving, at Thanksgiving, where I think the most we spoke was one of us asking if the other wanted a napkin, and Christmas, where she opened up to me somewhat in what felt like an effort to charm her way back into my good graces.

Anyway, a few weeks ago my parents got her to go back to rehab, but I just found out today that she skipped out of there last week. My parents haven't been able to contact her or even learn of her whereabouts. We hope she's with her boyfriend, who just got out of jail, not because we have any use for him, but just because that's better than the alternative. She has also been suffering from terrible anorexia, as she has had greater and greater problems holding any food down.

I am worried beyond belief about her. I'm kind of having pretty large problems myself and all of a sudden they seem totally insignificant.

shit dude sorry. is she your little sister?

Yeah, she's 20.

dag sorry

omg rev, that sucks beyond belief. *hugz*

rev, wish I had something more constructive and reassuring to offer. hope that your family and your sister makes it through this and that in the future it will all be water under the bridge.

^ what he said, rev.

Thanks, guyz.

Aw, Rev, that is so shitty & scary & sad. I hope everything works out.

I can't offer any advice, but I can offer my support.

:(

So my sister has been staying with my grandparents, who are fairly well off. They always give $100 to each of their grandkids every Christmas. My sister found the Christmas money, bought $800 worth of pills, and relapsed.

oh jesus

grim

eeeeesh

whoa

We found this out (she confessed it to my mom via text) on the way to an xmas gathering with (the other side of my) extended fam. We did not arrive in good holiday spirits.

Really I just want my real sister back. I know this isn't her, this is the drugs acting.

Oh man Rev. I know there is nothing I can do but.... *hugz*?

sorry to hear that rev. hope everything turns out ok :(

I have a niece who fell into heroin use and prostitution in her late teens. This was over a decade ago. Now she is clean and works as a teacher. She's still a bit wobbly compared to average people, but she's alive and she's going to make out ok.

I wasn't a major influence in pulling her through all that. It was my brother. All I can say is, hang in there and try not to give up on the person entirely -- but it is mostly up to them to get clean and sober. They have to want it pretty badly, and some backsliding is normal.

If they still deny having a problem, all I can say is contradict them, but don't throw them overboard.

my sympathies with anyone having to deal with this particularly over the holidays. having been the alcoholic in the family (one of several), it's a shitty time of year and a good time to use everything as an excuse to act on the worst thoughts. I've thankfully moved past this, but the time of year always makes me a little twitchy.

I can't imagine thinking of the holidays as a shitty time of year.

xp: Luckily, she can admit to her problems now, at least to her closest family.

how did she kick the habit last time?

good thoughts ur way man

yeah, sending good thoughts. I have a stepdaughter who managed to kick heroin around 4 years ago, people can do it.

xxp I don't really know, I wasn't around. But it sounded like she was starting to use her brain again. Like she was painting houses for a friend and she told him not to give her cash because she was afraid she'd spend it on drugs, so she had him things stuff for her instead of paying her.

"things stuff" = buy things or buy stuff, i'm not sure

sounds like she hadn't completely kicked it then? I don't have any experience or good advice in this, but you have my sympathies :(

I don't think she had.

Sorry to hear about this Rev.

Stay strong, R. I know you've been dealing with this for a long time.

:(

I want to yell at the loud children outside. "Hey kids! Shut the fuck up, I'm trying to eavesdrop!"

aw man

But yeah, she's using and she has mysterious cash.

Just hang in there--we'll all be thinking of you. I hope things work out OK.

try to get on with your own life, rev. as the saying goes, you didn't cause this, you can't cure it, and you can't control it. you don't have to prove your love for her by getting dragged down with her, it won't make a bit of difference to her situation and you'll end up sad and resentful.

I kind of roll my eyes at my little sister when she does stuff that seems a little short-sighted, but I have no idea what I'd do if she was in trouble like that.

All I can really say is to be there for her if she comes to you and seems genuine, and definitely be supportive of your family. It's just hard.

I wish my mother-in-law would not get strung out on benzos before her scheduled babysitting afternoon.

My wife only has to work occasionally during the week so it would be very cool if you could not pop a bunch of valiums before you have to take care of your grandchildren. When you take drugs, you turn into a crazy asshole.

Oh shit, I already posted this same update like year-and-a-half ago. Sorry, guys.

Don't you have a new babby now? Is that safe? How strung out are we talking? My mom is on pretty high does of Ativan and I'm not sure I'd want her to take care of an infant alone. :/

Yeah, I'm extremely not cool with this. My wife is over there handling the situation and she doesn't have to go to work for a couple hours, but I'm scared shitless that something will happen to my girl. : (

I'm really sorry KKVGZ. I'm sure it's really hard for both you and your wife. It does sound pretty sketchy though and would make me nervous as well. Can you make other childcare arrangments?

We're signing up for a place in the fall, but good lord childcare is expensive.

Our son is there too. He's seven now and somewhat better equipped to take care of himself. He's got a cellphone so he can call me if something goes wrong, but...

God, I want to set up a nanny cam in her house.

Yeah childcare costs are astronomical - I don't know how most people afford it tbh.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this but at least your son is getting older and, like you said, can sort of keep an eye on things. I'm sure it'll be OK.

I feel bad for you. A good friend of mine had to tell his mom that she can't watch his kid anymore earlier this year. I don't think she's even medicated, she's just a horrible caregiver for kids. He knew it already, but was optimistic...

You're right E, it prbably will be okay, but I'm going to be very uneasy until I pick them up at 5:45. And we're going to have to look at other options.

mh - see, when she's not getting high, she's a sweet person and a wonderful grandma and caregiver. But the second she hits those pills, it is some Jeckyl & Hyde shit.

Lately, she's only been able to abstain for maybe two weeks at a time tops.

In better news, sis is rehabbing down at the Oregon coast and seems to be sticking it out, at least for the time being.

good to hear

WOO HOO!

to rev.

Less woo hoo upthread

That is good news Rev. All the best to her.

*clap clap clap*

hi there, this just reared its ugly head. mother of a two year old :(

ugh i have not dealt with this when there are children involved

omg what i could add tothis thread but atm tl;dr

Opened up the thread and saw this post

Dealing with alcoholics/addicts in the family.

and my troubles almost went away!

MIL went over the edge again this weekend. She was hitting the pills hard this weekend and had a few beers too. It was so sad, like watching someone with Alzheimer's, but she's in her 50s. : (

We took her pills away, but she was still jacked up on Monday and Tuesday, so either she was still high from her binge on the weekend or she has them squirreled away elsewhere.

At least more of the family is willing to admit that she has a problem now and are taking steps to help her. Before it was just my wife trying to intervene and everyone else telling her to mind her own business.

Anyone know specifically, or have any examples of around how much Alcohol + Valium it takes to lead to a fatal overdose? I scanned like half a dozen valium addiction websites and didn't find anything concrete.

probably not very much.

This was the only data I could find:

The DAWN Report (Drug Abuse Warning Network) reported in April 2004 that Benzodiazepines (common brands include Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, and Ativan) that are used to treat anxiety, insomnia and seizures were responsible for many ED (emergency department) visits, and increased 41 percent from 1995 to 2002. Further, alcohol was the substance most frequently reported with benzodiazepines in these visits to the ED. (SAMHSA 2004).

she may have crazy tolerance tho

I have an RX for Ativan that I take ocassionally and while I know that people combine Benzos with alcohol (my mom is one of them :/) a Dr. once scared the crap out of me by saying that I any amount of alcohol with it could kill a person so I've never mixed. Pretty sure it's just a bad idea all around.

It's really depressing. She spends time with my wife and daughter every day and my little girl really loves her and laughs when she sees her and stuff (I've mentioned before, she can be really nice to be around when she's sober).

So one of my sisters-in-law is officially looking into inpatient treatment and scheduling an intervention and everything. FINALLY. Super-nervous.

Good luck, B. I spent much of 2007/2008 trying to get my mother into treatment. I hope your MIL is willing to go because if not it can be near impossible to get them there. Hope it works out for the best.

Sister is 7 months clean ^_______________^

so glad to hear it dude

\('o')/

good luck beachville - I spent most of 2011 trying to get my mom to get treatment but we only made it to the first introductory appointment and that was that. It is hard/dangerous to get too invested and see it as one's personal mission, but I suppose you know that

I've loved and hated so many alcoholics throughout my life. The frightening thing is they are the same people.

For me, it becomes real easy to forget the wonderful things that I like about a person when they're acting like a wounded neanderthal.

Ahhhhh...we're doing the intervention in 3 hours. I feel like I'm gonna puke. I'm terrible with confrontation. We have had to lie to her to get her to the place where we're doing the intervention, and she's apparently been clean since her last binge. All of which make me not want to do this.

My only consolation is that we have a professional interventionist (right word?) to guide things and, as the son-in-law, hopefully too much of the talking won't fall on me. But I don't trust my extended family very much to not botch this up somehow. Fuuuuuuck.

good luck homie

thanks a hoy hoy.

Wow, good luck man

just keep reminding yourself - a lot of other ppl would ignore the problem and hope it goes away. you're doing yourself, your wife and your kids a huge favour, bc i'm sure they want their grandma around, healthy and happy, for years to come.

good luck! hopefully with a professional involved it'll be harder for your in-laws to fuck it up too badly.

It went really well. There waas no anger involved. Mostly a lot of love and support. We got her to agree to go to inpatient treatment. Hope it works. Like I've said, sober she is a bright and kind and stand-up individual who I love to be around.

It was really weird. Like half an hour before we left to go to the intervention, she called my wife very apologetic and embarrassed, asking her to help sort out something she couldn't remember from her last binge. So she was already in a frame of mind where she knew that her drug abuse was affecting us.

Thanks everyone for letting me vent to yall.

thread is for venting! feel free to shout and moan whenever you feel it coming out.

so glad it went well. i'm sure she's still gonna have tough moments but that initial *oh shit* moment is a huge fucking step and it sounds like it could have been successful.

That's so awesome, so happy for you and your family

yeah sincere congrats for you!! I really hope this is the first step to a steady path towards emancipation from addiction. Do keep us updated!

God bless yr MIL and all others and their folks who need to get well here.

That's great news. Really happy for you and your family.

I agree it is v good that your MIL is starting down that road to recovery. Just remember that relapse is extremely common, even for addicts who are eventually successful in cleaning up. If it happens, just take it as a normal piece of the process and try not to be too miserable over it. Addicts have poor balance and often "fall down" when they start to practise self-control. Good luck to you all.

Thanks all. No doubt that this is a step. A pretty serious one, but I have no illusions about potential for relapse. But hopefully this'll help her establish a better path than say, going to three NA meetings and deciding "I'll take it from here!"

all the best for you and your MIL beachville...it's a postive step!

and much <3 for any other ilxors ITT wrestling with this.

My brother has taken up the habit of drinking too much. He is a former alcoholic. He did that with MY help, and I am an unrepentant drinker.

So... I gave him booze over the holidays. My parents separated because of alcohol. I mean she thinks HE was an alcoholic (he wasn't). Personally I think it is their fear of drink that exacerbates this condition.

I don't need another family blow-up about liquor. I think my brother's problem isn't the liquor but his dissatisfaction and he needs to fix THAT. AA just doesn't work for a lot of people.

dealing with dissatisfaction in the family.

ok but dude giving a 'former' alcohlic booze is never going to help things. whether you think you know the cause of something, giving them the thing they have shown signs of being addicted to isn't going to be the action that stops the dissatisfaction or deals with the history at the root of it all.

you are correct, but! dnftt, alas

what does dnftt mean?

do not feed the troll

while i don't necessarily doubt mt. cleaners' issues, you shouldn't take them at face value either

^^

coughing to conceal the sound of opening a can isn't a good sign is it?

oh hoo rah, my aunt (who I never talk to) just called to tell my that my mom (who lives in south dakota; I'm in CA) was just arrested for what apparently is her 3rd DUI. I knew she had 1 DUI but the second one is news to me (apparently my aunt was told to 'never ever tell' me). Any remaining doubts I had about my mothers alcoholism have eroded. Now, I knew my dad was an alcoholic, and her brother, and her father, and, in fact, I know that I am (but I'm almost six years sober in AA). But my mom, because she doesn't live near me any more, has done a pretty good job of hiding all of this from me (although I guess everyone else in my family knows). Yay!

Obviously nothing I can do about any of this. She's probably going to go to jail for some time, not sure how long. She's 65 but not in ill health.

Shit man. I guess all you can do is be by a phone. Also congrats on the near 6 year chip.

Actually, I agree with mookieproof about not taking people at face value. However my brother really did have a serious problem with alcohol and my mom is just extreme about it, even though she has a cocktail two or three times a year.

That was so long ago I didn't think he'd start drinking to him. I think the job is getting to him.

I think alcoholics should seek help but AA is too controlling for some. When there is drinking at the office, you can't remove yourself from alcohol culture.

bump - how is everybody doing on this thread?

Happy mothers day! Watched whos afraid of virgina woolf, got nostalgic

<3

I guess I've never really experienced serious addiction beyond nicotine but the constant refusal to admit and the sincere-sounding denials of addicts still blow my mind

your addiction gives you something, no matter how low it takes you. in fact, the lower you go, the more important the addiction is, because it's a constant, it's still there when it's helped you lose most of everything else in your life. so you make allowances for it. if you admit to yourself it's a problem you'll have to do something about it too, and it's pretty much your main friend at that point. so as well as losing all your other friends and supports, you'd have to lose your addiction, which is your last friend, your best friend. so you make excuses, and you look the other way.

I haven't stopped thinking about this ^^^ post for days. Is that a commonly used analogy? It seems really apt. The news of Jason Molina's condition, and the fact that we're basically the same age, just makes me think about other people I know/have known. Hard to deal with this stuff from any angle, but NV's explanation really helps to get at the heart of why it's so easy to hold onto this false friend so tightly. Sad.

i was speaking from my own experience, but from talking to a bunch of other people in various stages of recovery of late i think my own experience has a lot of commonalities.

Well you explained it beautifully and in a way that makes a lot of sense imo.

thanks :) i'll let the stupid craving bit of me know.

it's very otm, and sometimes realizing you have an addiction and that it's a horrible addiction makes it worse bc partaking in it becomes the only thing that helps you cope with the shame and guilt of having a horrible addiction. and that just secures it and transforms all the energy you should be using to free yourself into energy used hating yourself. vicious cycles and w/e.

yeah nv that was very well put. LL otm

i draw strength from you guys when i can't go out and see anybody because avoiding pubs. thanks. excuse my scratching at the front door.

hug in the mail for you

Please, no excuse necessary -- I just wanted to say that it was a really thought provoking post and solid answer to the question that preceded it. The more people talk plainly and truthfully about the experience of addiction, maybe more people who don't experience it firsthand will at least understand it a little better.

So with my mother reaching ever lower lows in her addiction, having been brought unconscious to the ER three times in the last four weeks - I'm back on this thread and other forums on alcoholism, still groping for answers and some kind of "solution", even though I know very well there is none and that as much as I'd want, I cannot do anything about this.
Still, from a a public service point of view, I find it hard to accept that people clearly unfit to live alone cannot be forced into a home or something.

Sorry to hear that baaderonixx. My MIL referenced upthread (under a former login) has been doing really well for the last few years and has been committed to her treatment after her month in rehab. For us, it's really gone from dark to light. She's never a monster anymore. That really was just the booze and pills. I don't want to be patronizing and talk about how it's working out for her - I mean, her treatment is her own personal thing, obvs - but things really seem to be working out for the best in our case.

x-post - There were many times I tried to have my mom put in rehab or forcibly detoxed and it's surprisingly hard. I'm sorry to hear this Bad. It's such a hard thing.

are you certain there's no addiction/self harm/mental health avenue here that can be used?

horrible even to ask, but I've been in yr position and my mother's psychiatrist had the ability to act in this type of capacity.

Ireland being Ireland this may well have been nod-and-wink stuff at the time tho, and prob not possible under EU regs, idk.

Yeah I'm just stunned that in this day and age, there doesn't seem to be anything one can do in cases like this. Her GP keeps telling me that since she appears to be functionning whenever she's sober, I would not be able to ask for forced treatment (which also everybody knows does not work)

Also I think at this stage, my mom's cognitive abilities and short term memory are so shot that there's no way she could take the decision to seek treatment. The denial mechanism is so strong that there's no way to even get her to admit that there have been bottles lying around the house or that she's been taken repeatedly to the hospital. Just a complete and utter mental block.

So basically, my only solution for now is to take ever more time off work to stay with her for a week here and there and try to calm things down. This used to give me some respite but now the addiction has gotten so bad that she goes out to buy booze the minute I'm driving back home.
And in the meantime my job situation is getting more and more fragile because of all the "strange" time off I keep asking for at super short notice...

you have to talk to someone at yr workplace, I'd be shocked if there wasn't support in place for you

there is and it's not that I'd be sacked or anything but I can see that now I'm now more and more seen as unreliable and therefore bypassed in assignments - pretty secondary considering my other problems but still just adds to the feeling that I'm fucking up my own life trying to save someone who doesn't wanna be saved.

idk where you're at but talking to yr employers about taking some extended family medical leave etc might be a better option than leaving everyone thinking you are a flake

even if the leave is not available, definitely, definitely make them aware of your sitch asap.

i have no real experience in this area but i really hope that you can find a way through this.