EATING in ITALY

im going to northern italy for a couple of weeks

for a vacation

gonna make some culinary pilgrimages. parma... bolognia... may go to perugia. gonna start in torino tho cuz that's where my folks are chilling.

any suggestions of things to to do/places to go/things to eat and where to eat them?

or any good books/websites/iphone apps?

*bookmarking*

we had a night in bergamo at the end of a week in milan. lovely town - the old city is perched on the top of a hill - narrow cobbled streets, little shops and a good selection of restaurants. can't remember the name of the particular one but it was also a wine shop and you could pick from it to accompany the food, which was typical bergamascan. 'lardo' was the thing i remember still - very fine slices of pork fat drizzled with grappa - tasted better than it sounds but i couldn't finish it. think i had rabbit afterwards. the rest of the family all enjoyed their courses - quite meaty, rich, highly memorable.

sure you'll just come across great places anyway. not really a country to go wrong foodwise.

some more bergamo context with some local specialities on page 3

i think there's a nutelleria in bologna

Before my last trip to Italy a couple years ago I stocked up on as much eating information as possible from as many different places as I could find.

Upon arrival, I promptly forgot about all of it after I discovered that the best meal in Italy is whichever one is in front of you. The basic rule of thumb was to gauge the number of locals eating at any particular place and then head on in.

I went to the Porta Palazzo market in Torino a couple of months ago and it was great. The guidebooks and net say it's Europe's largest open air market. I'm not sure about that. But eating figs and pecorino romano under a Roman gate (the Porta Palazzo) was terrific. We then went to a supermarket called Eataly that I'd read about in the NY Times and it was by contrast a drag; hard to get to and it was just like a Whole Foods, sterile and overpriced.

I've spent about thirteen weeks in Italy total, ate out twice a day, and had precisely two bad meals during that time - in a tired hotel by the station in Florence; and a take-out pizzeria in Rome where I bought a couple of slices so I could sit in the street, but which was greasy, soggy and horrible. Everything else has been at least decent and frequently fantastic. I burst out laughing eating a steak in Florence, it was so juicy and fall-apart.

Other than avoiding pure tourist traps, I have identified no rules whatsoever. Large and tiny restaurants, fashionable and out-of-the-way, modern and old, buzzing and empty, swish and run-down, expensive and il cheapo - they've all done it for me. I was going to suggest that the cuisine is actually quite localised and so it'd be worth asking waiters about specialities, but to be honest I've never needed to do that either.

I recommend avoiding the cafeteria at the train station in Genoa. I've never felt sadder for dead chickens.

ismael klata otm - i spent 3 most of weeks in a small village in tuscany, and i can't really think of anything i ate that wasn't good. i'm not good at recs cause most of what i ate was tuscan and also bc i was vegetarian when i was there. a thing to do near the village i stayed in was climb a local "mountain" and then eat local boar for dinner. i'd say go for what's fresh/local/simple because all of those things are generally stellar.

ur going to die and go to heaven in bologna slocks

(figuratively)

bologna slocks makes me picture socks made of bologna >_<

this is my favorite thread

Upon arrival, I promptly forgot about all of it after I discovered that the best meal in Italy is whichever one is in front of you. The basic rule of thumb was to gauge the number of locals eating at any particular place and then head on in.

― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, September 26, 2009 10:44 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is basically what my butcher told me and i believe him

so stoked for bologna

also going to this cool rare fruit orchard in perugia

what kinds of rare fruits?

try the horse

I used to live in Torino and here are my foodie picks:

Le Tre Galli, Via Sant'Agostino, 25: Perfect introduction to northern italian food with a staggering wine selection with great bottles for every budget.

Bar Rossini, Via Rossini: the Best Aperitivo in town, keep drinking and you can eat from a bar groaning with cheese, bread, mortadella, speck, pickles, boiled eggs etc.

There's a really good hole in the wall pizza joint on the north side of Piazza vittorio veneto that does great calzone and farinata

Coco Pazzo: "Una buona focaccia vuoi mangiare al Coco Pazzo devi andare", they are not wrong about this

There is a fabulous Enoteca in the narrow streets behind the Piazza Castello, which I was very good at finding whilst drunk and terrible at finding whilst sober and can't remember the name. However they did great free plates of fresh ravioli to complement your wine selections.

If you are going to venice, I cannot recommend a restaurant called La Bitta in San Barnaba highly enough.

May be a little too early but the best Panettone in Italy is from Perugia

i've been watching lidia's italy on pbs. woman is a genius.

i never knew so much about prosciutto in my life!

i <3 u ed

so basically i'm thinking

torino -> parma -> bologna -> siena (maybe a stop in firenze, but i've alreayd been there) -> perugia (where i'm going to go interview someone who runs this really cool fruit orchard).

does that sound sensical?

anything i'm leaving out or shouldn't go too?

and... i'm not driving, what do you think the best way to get around is? train? bus? ed (or anyone else), any thoughts?

Train would be best I think. The main north-south line runs Milan-Parma-Bologna-Florence, and the other places are just a connection away from those.

You should liveblog this (with pictures). I'd enjoy reading it while I eat my microwave meals-for-one.

Try and get to eat with some families too if you get the chance. I am kicking myself for passing up on a chance to spend a few months in a villa in the Abruzzi mountains with a big family some years back.

Just on the off chance: any recommendations for: Ravenna, Brisighella, Mantova, Faenza also much appreciated. (We're off to Bologna also but that's already being covered, obv.)

youre going to need to take a bus to siena, but thats really easy to do from florence (and the bus station is right next to the train station)

try not to get murdered by american college students while youre in perugia

There's a rickety local train Florence-Siena, though it's a good walk into town from the centre.

yeah and iirc it runs way less frequently than the bus which goes like 10x a day and only takes an hour and takes you right to the siena mcdonalds

cool, i've always wanted to eat at the siena mcdonalds!!

my folks are living in torino for a bit and they are friends wiht lots of the medical students there, who are more liek my age, so i think they are going to set me up on play dates with them

I must have eaten 3 dozen times in the Bologna McDonalds (true)

You usually can't go wrong in Italy, sure, but when you do it's that much more depressing. Hope it's fun.

Train is best to get around, all those places are well connected, the only exception is siena to perugia where the train is an annoying 3 change zig zag, but there is a direct, and good bus service.

Also the small modern art museum in siena has never let me down as great place to while away an afternoon.

I must have eaten 3 dozen times in the Bologna McDonalds (true)

You usually can't go wrong in Italy, sure, but when you do it's that much more depressing. Hope it's fun.

― Mark C, Friday, October 2, 2009 10:54 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whyyyyyy did you eat at the mcdonalds

srsly

WHY

i went on a weekend trip to venice with my friend and this random weird girl from louisiana and as soon as we got checked into our hotel, we were like ok let's eat dinner and she goes 'i'm just gonna find the mac-donalds' and i wanted to cry a lot. the end.

See those kind of people are what the death penalty should be reserved for.

3 dozen times is truly, truly criminal

ive been known to go to mcdonalds in foreign cities

i went to a mcdonalds in strasbourg but i think that was bc our friend (who was french) wanted an excuse to go and since she had 2 americans hanging w/ her, she felt like she was allowed. they had bagel sandwiches!

it was also 1998.

i mean, all valid reasons. curiosity alone is good enough. but three dozen times!!!

i think its kind of silly to have like a "rule" about not going to mcdonalds in italy or wherever--there are about a million tourist-trap restaurants way more expensive and way worse than mickey ds

sorry 2 derail, slocks

enjoy the finest meats & cheeses that italy has to offer u

btw i didnt eat at mcdonalds in budapest but i had like a zillion gyros

holy shit three DOZEN times? i thought that said three times

if you're in france just go to a "quick"

mcdos in foreign cities are very good if you can't find a bahtroom

and i can understand it if you're in budapest... where you're not always around the corner from an amazing restaurant. food in hungary can be amazing, but not always.

i ate at a flunch in france. i had the kid's meal. it was called flunchie.

u cant really go wrong w/ gyros in budapest i have found

For the record my death-penalty crack was meant only at the girl from Louisiana, not Mark C.

too late :(

you guys executed him already?

quickfire challenge

food can be amazing everyone and also expensive

going to Rome for a few days later in the month - so excited about the food/wine!

just realized the venice biennale is on

gonna have to go to that imo

Quick is worse than McD's in my experience...soggy fries.

I live like 2 minutes from a Flunch. All you can eat soggy fries!

guys im leaving tomorrow ~psyched~

can i come?

so definitely going to venice ... biennale... any decent places to eat in that shitty tourist restaurant laden town that u know of?

and lamp, every time i turn on a lamp i will think of u, so in a sense you WILL come along, in my heart

bring me

every time i hear a really insane sound coming from someone's butt, i will think of u

stoked for the madness

if u bring gbx and me we can keep u healthy and disease free - no swine flu - plus u can play my nintendo ds on the flight

i've got a deck of cards

i want to eat in italy

i want to eat italy

i have a ds already and i think i just beat a case of swine flu

besides i got civilization for my iphone so im good for that (and stoked)

ice cold, man, we're just trying to help

i know a little italian

his name is mario!

jk

bannin u for racism

it is a very common name.

i can speak a little bit, though!

dov'e la gelateria!?

^^^ betty draper itt

besides i got civilization for my iphone so im good for that (and stoked)

:D :D :D on the real have fun - wear ur gay hats w/impunity eat amazing food swim in the sea - mad jealous

thanks dude

i dont actually wear hats

they're all too small for my weird big head

i wouldnt wear them anyway, no hats are cool imo

i was born in naples. i teethed on italian bread as an infant.

(not italian btw)

were you born on a pizza

I lived in Bergamo for a year and highly recommend it - apart from being beautiful (the old town, at least), it's an excellent place to stuff your face. If you go, I recommend:

- Da Mimmo in the upper town for a restaurant to spend a bit of cash
- Gelateria La Marianna in Colle Aperto, where the bus to the old town stops, particularly for creamy (rather than fruity - though they are also good) ice-creams
- Nessi bakeries (the main one is at the big crossroads in the lower town - you can't miss it), particularly for cream-filled donuts and croissants, and local speciality polenta e osei (not poletna as you know it - it's a kind of marzipan-covered cake)
- Co-operativa Citta Alta, off Vicolo Sant'Agata, just off the main drag through the old town for cheap eats and great atmosphere - lunchtimes it's frequented by the local students and afternoons it's all old dudes playing cards. Staff are lovely. They do a good version of another local speciality, casoncelli (a kind of tortoloni topped with crispy sage leaves.

so definitely going to venice ... biennale... any decent places to eat in that shitty tourist restaurant laden town that u know of?

Directions in Venice is a useless exercise, but FWIW there was a bar roughly four or five blocks NW of our hotel (Hotel Bisanzio) that was open late and seemed to be populated with local construction workers. Everyone there seemed to be ordering this:

http://www.quartzcity.net/ilx/venice_meat_plate.jpg

Basically a big plate of cheese, bread, and cured meat. It was AMAZINGLY great and with a couple of beers it was the perfect way to unwind from the train ride and the cacophony/comedy of errors it takes to find your hotel in Venice.

YUM.

saluuuumi.

haha elvis otm! we actually never found our hotel, nor could we find anyone who knew the address, so we ended up just finding a new hotel altogether. also venice protip: it's really easy to not pay on the water taxi, as long as you are ok with the fact that you will inevitably get caught and playing dumb tourist will not help. but i think the fine adds up to what you would have spent if you'd been paying all along anyway. could be a fun 'deceive transit cops' game. liveblog it!

can i tweet it - is there twitter in venice?

io tweeto noi tweetiamo
tu tweeti voi tweetate
lei tweeta loro tweetano

la tweetinissima

i like saying twee-tano

try it u will like it

twee-taly

^_^

shouldve called the thread TWEETING in ITALY huh

Twittaly. For Venice see also Paradiso Perduto.

one thing that i remember about food in Rome is those awesome fry shops.

what's this paradiso perduto?

so apparently... there's a big conference on in Bologna starting the second night I was meant to be there... which means it's gonna be problematic. any other northern italy city suggestions?

Verona's really nice, but I only had one meal there.

uh never mind jetlagged crisis averted

O man

the things I have eaten

yay!

pictures pls

I haven't taken a lot of pictures of stuff actually on my plate cuz I just feel kinda like wrong about that. but I have many pictures of magnificent prosciuttos.

going to Venice tomorrow where I suspect my food luck will get a lot worse. but that's ok. visit to umbrian fruit orchard after.

bust that taboo - we must see this stuff

i am ok w/ just seeing pictures of magnificent proscuittos

I am reminded of a DeLillo description of the inside of an Italian deli - "a cathedral of pork"

haha totally. ya I had an amazig meal tonight at a 100 y.o. resto where they grow their own produce on the family farm and make their own wine but pulling out the camera like a depraved restaurant blogger just seemed gauche

i commend you for not being 'that guy' but man i am hungry now.

taking pictures of your food anywhere is sick but its even more disgusting in a foreign country where they dont even have blogs

"let me ask, have you heard of yelp signor?"

il bloggi

io sonno una yelpisto

sonna par un wite kid

gli savagisti disgustingi

gil savagistimi disgustingi, imo!

savagissimo

er....

gli savagisti piu disgustosi!

for some reason im even hungrier now

btw I watched a dubbed version of the astronauts wife with charlize theron on the hotel tv last night

im in film lover's paradise

gli esposa di astronata

con charlizista theronissimo

do they still have the game show sette per uno?
bc if so, i demand you watch it!

lol @ gli esposa

guys the Garfield movie is on

il giatto di lasagna

why are you watching movies and not out eating?

il giatto no me gusta Mondai

io odio lunedi

lasagnato

gli lasagnisti della jon arbuckle

im seriously stuffed and tired

bologna is so... good... spent so much time in food stores eyeing stuff I can't take home

how fat are you right now

ts: il catto di pazzesco v restauranto

did u eat any bolognese bologna

when you turn on the faucet in yr hotel room does delicious meat sauce flow

yes its awesome for brushing my teeth

now im imaging u in homer's land of chocolate but instead with salted meat

I thought it would be left white wine, right tap red wine.

it's left olive oil right balsamic

slocki, plzzz you mussst take photos! that thing i told you about is going to be ready in a couple weeks!!!

also... what's italy like in mid-late august? im going in 2010 for my moms 70th birthday to the verona opera. might also go to rome or amalfi coast or something but is crazy hot and full of tourists and everything good shut for august holidays?

ya basically... it can be hard to find anything open that doesn't specifically cater to tourists

Italians do all go on holiday in August, but as they don't really need to leave Italy I'd expect that coastal places would probably be pretty much business as usual.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3656/4018044242_c249f5a46a.jpg

stuffed with slow-cooked rabbit, veal, some other stuff

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/4017281921_18b7f22629.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/4018042640_f53e5dd060.jpg

^_^

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/4018040544_8ee09edf51.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2684/4017278511_58d071ea9a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/4018039316_c2c3b1b7b8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2519/4018039172_7501955207.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/4018040808_6f08c639db.jpg

^^^ for the ladies

what does the ladies look for in a s1ocki

how was the mouthfeel

that's what she said

i mean, she said it was good

lol

man this orchard in umbria i went to... it was like paradise on earth... i can't even...

sounds/looks awesome.

i haven't read this thread but based on my experiences in italy:

- all italian women are hot
- until they reach age 40 at which point they suddenly become very dumpy and fat
- i think it has to do with antipasti, pasta, main, dessert every frickin night of the week

seriously, there were a couple of places i ate at where the antipasti alone would have been enough to be getting on with..

my experience in italy meant not eating very much at night and focusing on mid-day bigger meals.

ya with a few exceptions i can rarely do all 4 courses!!

the italian woman i interviewed, in her 50s, was not fat or dumpy at all.

so

Upon arrival, I promptly forgot about all of it after I discovered that the best meal in Italy is whichever one is in front of you. The basic rule of thumb was to gauge the number of locals eating at any particular place and then head on in.

Know this is always the default choice mechanism, but if anyone's got any specific recommendations for Bologna, then it'd be appreciated. I'll be there tomorrow night and could do with a suggestion that I can go to straight from work without, sadly, strolling about taking my time choosing.

omg waht i would give to eat in Bologna

going to be in rome and florence (with maybe a side trip to sienna or pisa) a month from now, I'm getting excited but kind of nervous about accidentally eating somewhere crappy.

GR, we were very pleased with Drogheria della Rosa at Via Cartoleria 10.

Thanks Tim, it's going on the (very short) list.

dude! went to such a great place. wtf was it called.

DA CESARI.

get the ravioli di zucca.

everything is grown on thier farm (including the wine).

DROOOOL.

also wander around the food markets by the main square jammy.

gah so many good restaurants. mouth = watering just thinking bout it.

I must have eaten 3 dozen times in the Bologna McDonalds (true)

You usually can't go wrong in Italy, sure, but when you do it's that much more depressing. Hope it's fun.

― Mark C, Friday, October 2, 2009 10:54 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark

^ most depressing post in ILX history

im hungry

mark c=disgusting savage

Vivoli Gelato in Firenze and this other ice cream parlor in San Gimignano whose name I forget (very famous and old, ppl will immediately know the place if you ask).

DA CESARI.

get the ravioli di zucca.

everything is grown on thier farm (including the wine).

DROOOOL.

DA CESARI.

get the ravioli di zucca.

everything is grown on thier farm (including the wine).

DROOOOL.

Cheers s1ocki, sounds amazing - think I'll be pressing for this place quite strongly.

quite a nice place. show up around 7, 7:30, you shouldn't have a problem getting a table (everyone seemed to arrive at 8).

just wandering the streets found so many great places.

miss u bologna

This thread = reason to keep living. No matter how lousy your job can get, if it gets you to Italy periodically you WIN.

there really is nothing like it. as much as i adore the cuisines of the world, italian food is like hardwired to my central nervous system or something. it's like i have this intense physical reaction just thinking about it.

Agreed. I'm thinking of adopting an olive tree from these folks: http://www.nudo-italia.com/

"as much as i adore the cuisines of the world, italian food is like hardwired to my central nervous system or something. it's like i have this intense physical reaction just thinking about it"

now you know what means to be Italian!

I shouldn't have read this thread while eating a boring old turkey and coleslaw sandwich :(

Didn't get anywhere recommended although did eat well (particularly lovely tortellini in brodo at one place). However, when I got back, I found an Italian friend had sent me a list, which I'll put here for future reference -

After a quick brainstorming with people living in Bologna i suggest you:

*"LA STALLA" via Garavaglia 5/b (zona San Donato)

or

*Osteria Broccaindosso via Broccaindosso7/a

or

*Osteria dell'orsa in via Mentana 1/f

or

*Ristorante Nino in via volturno9/d

or

*Ristorante Pappagallo (very expensive but very very good) Piazza della Mercanzia

*Out of Bologna: Ristorante Montecapra at Sasso Marconi, via monte capra 18

Hope you'll enjoy it!

Il Brace, which was recommended by someone else I know, is apparently still very good as well.

thinkin abt bookin a long wkend in bologna at the beginning of september, flights are only £40 so why not?

Go for it, I say.

APPARENTLY HUMBLE PIE IS ON THE MENU

*bookmarking*

fuck that, I'm off to find a Mexican food thread

We went to Da Cesare too. Amazing. Here's a good article about the man behind it:

http://janera.com/2007/06/20/a-week-with-piedmont%E2%80%99s-star-cuisiniere-cesare-giaccone/

Oh hi I'm in Florence right now trying to figure out where I'm going to eat tonight.

da cesare so good

yeah ok this is happening

btw what made me think of this is the author of this new book 'italy for the gourmet traveler' is answering questions on the nytimes food blog + he has a loooot of good advice

rather jealous of joygoat. I was going to say I spent the last world cup in Florence, but a moment's thought reveals it was 1998 :(

o ya link?

(xp_)

We were outside a crowded bar just as Italy lost; everyone just walked away sadly, no riots or anything. I dared my wife to start yelling OLE! but she didn't take me up on it.

Eating here is pretty great tbh. Kinda the same thing everywhere but so good - been drinking lots of chianti and eating tons of cured meats.

slocki -
http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/21/q-and-a-with-fred-plotkin-2/
http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/q-and-a-with-fred-plotkin-round-two/

im going for two weeks in june, help me plan my trip

What kind of thing do you want to do?

im pretty open. were flying into rome and spending five or six days there then ??? before flying out of milan

definitely going to florence
would like to go to parma and bologna

but its all up in the air

mostly just looking for recommendations for stuff to see and eat and places to stay i guess?

weve both been to italy a couple times before

Milan's quite underrated as a city. Of the main three, it's probably where you'll want to spend the least amount of time, though. If you're looking at the higher end options, STRAF is a good choice if you like luxury hotels with a very 'designy' aesthetic. It's quite stripped down and severe but really well put together. It's also bang in the centre of town.

On a budget, you'll have more adequate options in Milan than Rome or Florence, in the summer, i'd have thought. There are lots of ok two-to-three star hotels around the main station which are fine if you're not planning to spend tonnes of time there and have very good transport links.

The biggest name in food is Peck - the Cracco Peck Restaurant was great when i went a few years ago but it's not universally loved and there are questions over whether it's really worth the money. Has two stars so would be worth booking now if you were thinking of splashing out. Alternatively, the Peck delicatessen downstairs sells everything you could possibly want for a super-luxe picnic. There's a really good by-the-slice pizza place on Corse Buenos Aires called something like Spoffini or Spontini that's great for a quick lunch.

I’ve heard good things about a restaurant called Locanda La Tirlindana on Lake Como. Como is absolutely beautiful in the summer and there’s enough of it not to get totally packed. It’s well worth a trip out of the city if you haven’t been before.

As far as sightseeing goes, the Castello Sforzesca and Pinoteca de Brera are both worth an afternoon. It’s not as packed with essential things to do as Florence or Rome. You can have a good time just bar hopping and shopping. The main fashion area is rather remarkable – it has the showpiece stores of every Milan-based designer with no expense spared on the displays. Viktor & Rolf’s’ interior is worth a look too.

You’d be missing the sales so for high-end bargains, it’s a good idea to hit the central outlet stores run by DMagazine. There’s one the fashion district and one over by Porto Genovese. The area behind Porto Genovese metro’s great – lots of contemporary art, bars, etc, in an otherwise fairly nondescript part of the city.

I’d advise not stinting on the time spent in Florence. I was there for five days the first time going out at 8am and coming back around 8pm, doing nothing but visiting galleries and churches. I still didn’t feel like I saw enough. If you haven’t been before, it’s absolutely overwhelming. It’ll be busy in the summer so you may have to spend some time in queues if you’re hitting the main sites like the Accademia and the Uffizi. Pre-book wherever possible. The best advice I can give is be waiting at the doors of the Palazzo Pitti when it opens and wander round before anyone else turns up. It’s an incredible experience. Don’t miss the Fra Angelico works in San Marco either.

I think the only thing I ate in Florence was gelato. It’s all amazing so try a few different ones.

Rome’s exhausting. Lots of incredible things to see, though. Stayed at the Hotel Quirinale which would have been overpriced anywhere else in Italy but could have been a lot worse.

There’s a surprisingly cheap and surprisingly adequate restaurant right opposite the Pantheon. Also a good gelato place next door and Tazza d’oro, a remarkable coffee bar, about a minute away.

idk, whatever you end up doing, you can't really go far wrong.

thank you for all that sharivari!

now soliciting: recommendations for places to stay in florence and bologna. hotels, hostels, neighborhoods.

I must have eaten 3 dozen times in the Bologna McDonalds (true)

You usually can't go wrong in Italy, sure, but when you do it's that much more depressing. Hope it's fun.

― Mark C, Friday, October 2, 2009 10:54 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark

^ most depressing post in ILX history

― sir gaga (s1ocki), Tuesday, May 11, 2010 5:00 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The wife and I stayed at this apartment in Florence: http://www.flatinflorence.com/tosinghi.php. It was cheaper than a lot of the hotels (at least two summers ago it was), and I like apartment rentals more than hotels when I'm there for a more than a couple of days.

Right by the Duomo and Piazza Della Republica, but quiet at night, I thought it was great, no complaints. Actually, the only one was that something went wrong with the door on our last night there and we ended up hanging out on the street with Luca, the apartment manager and his Albanian girlfriend, drinking beers until a locksmith showed up at 1am and jimmied the door with an x-ray of his shoulder. But honestly that was one of the highlights of the trip.

for the third time in four years i am going to italy (!!)

this time the far north: milan-turin-lake orta-lake como-lake garda-dolomites

in late april/early may so the dolomites will be muddy and empty but im hoping the lakes will be nice

having added lots of the stuff from this thread already im looking for recommendations of things to do/see/eat

i also like nerding out a little bit pre-trip so book recommendations are helpful (have already read italian hours and venice observed. are there no good english-language histories of tyrol? or even historical fiction set in the dolomites? & what can i read to learn more about savoy and its namesake family?)

Eric Ambler's spy novel Cause For Alarm is set in Milan and is great, if that sort of thing appeals. I lived in Bergamo for a year and would definitely recommend a day there - lots to see and much good eating to be had. It's an hour on the train from either Milan or Como.

Eric Ambler in milan ABSOLUTELY appeals, thank you!

Had a good meal at Giardino dei Segreti in Milan on Wednesday night but it's probably geared more towards business groups than food geeks.

Can't really recommend any books but the Italy Unpacked BBC series with Andrew Graham-Dixon and Giorgio Locatelli might be worth a look. They went to Lombardia and Piedmont in season one.

Eric Ambler's spy novel Cause For Alarm is set in Milan and is great

Yes!

And it's been a while since I've been out there, but I ate very well generally in Milan, but particularly in Piacenza, and in fact had what I still think was one of the best meals of my life in the hills just outside Piacenza.

Recall a mediocre meal beset by mosquitos and gnats in Como.

As for lit there's always Manzoni's The Betrothed tho I'm not sure I even finished it.

Friend who's a financial investigator specialising in Italy recommends Tobias Jones' Dark Heart of Italy which contains a lot about how Berlusconi made his money in Milan, though its scope is more national. There's a strong continuity in Italian politics from WWII to the present day - well worth watching Sorrentino's Il Divo for instance, about Bettino Craxi's reign as Prime Minister.

Will see if I can get some more recommendations.

Oh, and Dario Fo's play Accidental Death of an Anarchist is v good.

I spent a couple of weeks on Lago d'Orta a few years ago. It should be fantastic that time of year; one of the most beautiful places in the world. We spent a lot of time on the Sacro Montes : the one in Orta is superb (it's where Nietzsche tried to kiss Lou Salome!). The one in Varallo (I assume you'll have a car) is even more spectacular, and there's a good restaurant onsite too (I had a nice asparagus risotto). A trip to the Borromean Islands on Lago Maggiore, and in particular to the Palazzo Borromeo, ought to be in order too. Driving between Orta and Stresa is great if you up the Mottarone because you get a great panoramic view of lakes and the Alps.

i loved il divo

second the vote for Dark Heart of Italy, very readable and super-interesting.

awesome euler ty

Was in Naples for four days recently. Fantastic food all around - and cheap!! Da Donato near Garibaldi station is a classic trattoria. And pizza - all sizes - all day and anywhere.

Any particular recommendations for Bari?

worked in milan 12 years ago, but am going back for the first time next week. any recommendations for places to eat or things to do generally?

(may book last supper and il duomo, but other than that will be wandering)

it's a little out of the way but 'lambiczoon' has the best beer selection I've experienced on a night out, bar none

trying to remember what else was good. there was an incredibly great pugliese pizza pocket joint near the main station

thanks imago, going on the list. i remember going into a perfectly bland hotel and having a spectacular risotto milanese so i know it’s hard to go wrong but nevertheless always prefer personal recommendations.

here. it is nothing but cheap fast food, and yet it is everything

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g187849-d4288887-Reviews-Il_Panzerotto-Milan_Lombardy.html

Lambiczoon - which had Cantillon ON TAP when we went - is here:

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g187849-d5533896-Reviews-Lambiczoon-Milan_Lombardy.html