A message to the genius, wherever he was originally from, who decided...

...that the light switches on European bathrooms ought to be on the outside of the room. My message to you, sir, is as follows: you're a fucking asshole. I thank you for your time.

you'll be wanting locks on the inside next. man up cowboy.

J0hn, I can explain: they're paranoid about humidity in bathrooms and how that mixes with electricity, so no switches or outlets (other than the mysterious 'shaver' outlet) are allowed in bathrooms. Stronger voltage relative to America might also be an issue.

if they did this in America, children would spend much creative energy scouting out an occasion to force their elders to shit in the dark

you can get lights inside a bathroom where you pull a string to turn them on.

^^^The string thing, connected to a bathroom light encased in a fixture, is acceptable.

If you'd quit being so lazy and construct a Rube Goldberg machine to flip the switch up or down...

Americans would sue the shit out of that designer, tear down those bathrooms and rebuild with light switches inside. The way they're SUPPOSED to be

(though we won't talk about failed American plumbing and little teeny toilet s-bends that need plunging thrice daily.)

I am looking for a house right now and you'd be amazed how many American houses have the bathroom light switch in the hallway. I haven't immediately disqualified houses on that basis, but it's tempting.

lool at college the lightswitches to the communal bathroom (toilets/showers etc) were on the outside of the main door. there were many moments of childish amusement derived from turning off the lights when people were in the shower

We have 2 lightswitches in our Jack & Jill bathroom, and if one is left in the up position and you try to turn it off with the other, they don't work, so you have to walk back and switch the other lightswitch. Gets v confusing.

that genius

was william shakespeare

high five

We have 2 lightswitches in our Jack & Jill bathroom, and if one is left in the up position and you try to turn it off with the other, they don't work, so you have to walk back and switch the other lightswitch. Gets v confusing.

speaking as an actual electrician apprentice, this represents a miswiring of your 3-way switch system and can be fixed fairly easily by somebody with the knowledge.

thanks sleeve!

For some reason light switches in a lot bathrooms in Boston apartments are on the outside. It's annoying at first but I'm used to it now.

when i was 12 i was part of a delegation of kids my age who went overseas to the british isles--i suppose under the pretense of spreadiing positive perceptions of intelligent young american students (funny in and of itself) but we really kind of just went places and did tourist things--and every time i'd go to shower some brat would take advantage of my fear of a) the dark and b) being naked by using the switch outside the bathroom to combine them. then again we did catch a pair of breasts on late night tv in the hotel room so i guess i came out even

dam john europe just got bathrooms like last week give em a minute to work this out for themselves ~~ otherwise they will never learn

I am in America. There are two light switches for the bathroom. They are both outside the room. Also the lightswitch for the bedroom is outside the bedroom, and the two lightswitches when you come in are SIDEWAYS even though the rest are the right way up.

Also, there are three lightswitches for the kitchen area. The one for two lights on the ceiling and the one for under the counter are next to each other, whereas the one for the other two ceiling lights, which are NEXT to the other lights, is on the other side of the kitchen.

http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/upimg4%5CTouch-light_44244.jpg

just keep this next to the toilet, guys

my switches are on the outside wall. i think it just makes it so that the majority run along the same line (ie less wiring work?)

it's so flying shitgerms don't smother the lightswitch u disgusting savages

oh shit dyao i have two of those sitting in my closet

just press them to light them, gbx

do they turn them on and off with their feet?

yes they do

How is this a problem - it just means the bathroom is lit up before you even set foot in it? That's better, surely?

Plus you can find out if there's someone in the bathroom by switching the light off and waiting for someone to say "Hey!"

and if there's someone in the bathroom, you can use the light switch to send them important messages in morse code.

thinking like this led Europe to defeat in WWII iirc

It would have been over a lot quicker if the lightswitch for der Fuhrerbunker had been on the outside tbh.

okay who's the genius who put the detonator for the atom bomb on the OUTSIDE of the bomb??

it wasn't that long ago we had the three day week mister, when you couldn't afford to poop. occasionally forgetting the switch is on the other side of the wall is a priviledge we should cherish before cameron sells all the lights.

or something.

would the last person to leave BROKEN BRITAIN please TURN out the LIGHTS (Switch located on the coast of France)

Even when there is a light switch it turns on an EC-approved low energy bulb that provides no real light and has been forced on the people of this great nation by foreign Eurocrats.

>EC-approved low energy bulb

My mother has been stockpiling 200 watt incandescent bulbs since she heard about this - she's got a bankers box full in the garage which she claims will "see her through"...

I don't think there's any "European" standard to this, I've seen light switches both on the inside and the outside of bathrooms in Europe. In Finland they tend to be outside in older apartments (like mine), but outside in the newer ones. Maybe it's because insulation has gotten better, so there's no worries about humidity and electricity?

Anyway, unless you live with someone who uses the outside switch to pull pranks on you, I don't see what's the problem. You put the light on before you go in, and you turn it off when you come out. What's the deal?

I think it's mure of a hassle, if you're using an unfamiliar bathroom with the light switch inside, to try to find the lightswitch in the dark bathroom. An outside switch makes it much easier.

who are all these people that forget where their bathroom lightswitch is in the dark?

Sometimes a combination of sleepiness and urgency can be pretty befuddling.

who are all these people that forget where their bathroom lightswitch is in the dark?

But sometimes you have to use other bathrooms than your own, you know?

then you should deal with the switch situation with grace and dignity, and be sure to flush each time.

hahah I just realized that our bathroom's switches are also outside the room. It was just something I, y'know, ACCEPTED. :-)

Plus you can find out if there's someone in the bathroom by switching the light off and waiting for someone to say "Hey!"

Someone did this to me in our shared house in uni. But I was washing my hair and had my eyes shut, so my response was somewhat delayed.

can we deal with the much more pressing issue concerning us all. American light switches are upside down.

you what?

this fuckin continent imo

I read that as:

this fuckin content imo

eveything should be the same everywhere imho.

don't want to cross pollenate the controversial topics of our times, but i heard that in the US you need 76 SB's before you get banned.

US up is on down is off
UK down is on up is off

kriss kross will make you jump, jump

tbh I think J0hn could be convinced of the appeal of outside side switches, if only he were to experience the malicious exhilaration that comes with casually switching the bathroom light off and walking away, when someone else is taking a dump.

i'm not going to blow minds here if i say that i can shit in the dark, am i?

i mean, 'finding your ass with both hands in the dark' is actually a saying, right?

Could be someone else's arse.

They could be feeling yours at the same time, both of you thinking you're alone.

where are the light switches in prison bathrooms anyway?

US up is on down is off
UK down is on up is off

― Mornington Crescent (Ed), Monday, 12 October 2009 11:28 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

Good luck USA, you crazy bastids.

shitting in the dark is easier than pissing in the dark surely

that genius

was william shakespeare

― Bobby Wo (max), Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:45 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban

10/10

US up is on down is off
UK down is on up is off

Do you know I accidently have NO fucking clue how it is in Belgium.

After ten years in my house, I still get confused about the placement of switches.

Having two switches for one lamp (light in the hallway, a switch near the front door and one near the door to the living room) kinda messes with the whole up/down principle

i really don't think there is a strict standard in this? just depends on how it is wired? i have developed a complex system of tackling this situation which is when the light is off i flick the switch to the opposite side of where it currently is, amazingly it works almost every time!

I dislike appliances with an on/off switch with no indication of which way is which, because I can never remember. Maybe I can blame growing up in a house where most of the lights had dimmer switches (so no "way up") or had two switches (so no consistent "way up", as dependent on which setting the other switch was in).

(xpost, Ken, that usually works, but I would get annoyed at e.g. my parents' tumble-dryer, cz there is a switch for the speed/power setting, but instead of labelling both ends it has a note which says something like "On = high power", which is very unhelpful to me. Also every time a bulb goes I end up flicking the switch several times just to make sure and then I don't know if it's on or off, though I understand that manly types do not care to turn lights off before changing bulbs anyway)

Anyway, pretty much everywhere I've ever lived or visited in the UK except for hotels has had a pull-cord in the bathroom, but my new place has switches outside the bathroom. This still manages to confuse me almost daily.

Even though the pull cords at my last place had become horribly discoloured with age and dirt and would occasionally get caught on the doorhandle or pull away from the ceiling completely, I am still wishing we had some here.

pull cord lightswitch + pull chain cistern = recipe for confusion

US up is on down is off
UK down is on up is off

Um I'm actually on the side of the US here (as is Norway in general). Does the UK turn these kinds of switches upside down as well?

http://docs.sun.com/source/802-6313/images/6-6-274C3.gif

Obviously you want the light switch inside the room because you want to be able to close the door and then turn on the light in case the bathroom light would shine through the doorway on to a sleeping person.

Also because you are liable to not be fully dressed and you're glad it's dark, whereas when you turn on the light from the hallway, anyone in the liv rm or the opposite bedroom or anyone who can see in your windows from outside will be able to see you standing there like a turnip in your T-shirt before you duck into the bathroom.

US up is on down is off
UK down is on up is off

I live in Japan, and all my light switches are sideways. Not a horribly immature joke, I swear.

Don't you people believe in keeping doors shut? Neither of those two things is really a problem if bedroom and/or bathroom doors are generally kept shut.

(x-post)

Our apt has three large windows across the front and you can see straight down the hallway with the bathroom in it. So if any light is on in the whole apt, I have to get fully dressed to leave my room.

Yeah, we need to put up curtains -- but even still, if one forgets to DRAW THE DRAPES on any given night, you're going to have the problem.

I guess it's a matter of how far away the windows are from whomever can see in. Otoh, our bedroom window faces the bathroom window of an apartment in a building across a narrow alley, so unless they're using the facilities in the dark, we can see in.

But if you keep the bathroom door shut, surely the light from the bathroom doesn't illuminate you except for the split second that takes you to get inside the bathroom and close the door? Any Peeping Tom would have to be extra lucky to catch you at that exact moment.

(x-post to Laurel)

xpost to anatol

British light switches are predominantly of that type and are the other way up from shown in you diagram. Although it matters less for light switches on outlet socket switches the top surface is often coloured red so you can see at a glance if the socket is live. Of course the rest of the world is not up to the high standards of fitting sockets with switches. In britain a suitably equipped baby with a metal chopstick needs to both poke it in the hole and flick the switch whereas in the rest of the world baby can electrocute itself unimpeded, (haha, electricians pun there).

There are 8 or 10 different apartments that can see into our windows -- the chances of someone looking at you at that moment are considerably better when you multiply by 10 and then again by the number of people living in those apts.

Anyway the point is that you can invalidate this whole boring discussion by putting the fucking light switch inside the room, where it should be.

xp tuomas: Leaving the bathroom door open when it's not in use helps a lot with ventilation/dissipation of moisture, etc.

Hmm, on the other hand, you still have to get out of the bathroom too, so I guess it would be a problem if the lightswitch is outside and not very close to the bathroom door.

I guess my memory is kinda bad, because now that I think of it, I used to have this exact problem when I was living in a shared flat and brought some "lady friends" there for the night. Most of them didn't much care about being seen, but I was always kinda worrying what my militant feminist flatmate thought about my nocturnal activities.

(xx-post)

xxxxxxxpost (wow) yeah are people across the road constantly filming your house through your window or something?

light switches should be inside and bathrooms should be properly ventilated

unless you have a extractor fan, something that americans don't seem to believe in, at least in the sort of housing I have experience. even quite well appointed apartments seem to lack this essential in the bathroom and kitchen.

unless you have a extractor fan, something that americans don't seem to believe in

they all still love tractors.

xxxxxxxpost (wow) yeah are people across the road constantly filming your house through your window or something?

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 12 October 2009 09:29 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This is brooklyn, not crouch end, a constant rolling creative whorl in 24 hour rolling technicolour truman show esque reality art broadcast medium.

We have a good strong fan in our bathroom. But a lot of bathrooms in older apartments/houses (e.g. victorians, etc.) don't, and they also have separate rooms for the toilet and bath/shower.

I like how Laurel is essentially calling for a nationwide rewiring program rather than ... buying some fucking curtains.

The bathroom I am less worried about. Regular scrubbing prevents mildew but not having a hood in the kitchen is a terrible thing.

i thought hoods in kitchens didn't do anything but blow the air around. you can open a window and get the same effect. . .

Lol @ Tracer missing Laurel's point entirely.

xp - Kitchens usually have windows to the outside, though. Besides mildew/rust, fans in bathrooms also effectively dissipate stinkiness

I like how Laurel is essentially calling for a nationwide rewiring program rather than ... buying some fucking curtains.

I don't care how they do it in Britain, I don't live there. I'm just pointing out the advantages of putting light switches inside the rooms they're intended to illuminate.

I don't know how you live in a place like NYC without curtains. It would drive me crazy.

A good hood will extract to the outside, as mine did back in london. Even a bad one with have a grease screen and an activated carbon filter which will tame some of the smells and trap some of the inevitable grease film that would otherwise spread across the kitchen.

The window is not a good solution as it takes the right balance of open and closed windows to get a cross draft that goes out of the kitchen window rather than in.

basic kitchen hoods seem to be a staple of even the cheapest housing in the UK as they protect the paintwork and fixtures from grease that the landlord would otherwise have to clean.

It's crazy the number of extractor hoods I've seen that don't actually lead anywhere. But I'd never considered that even then, they're sort of doing something?

People who leave their blinds/curtains open all the time so everyone can see them do their business C or D?

hoods are required in commercial kitchens

the downside of extractor hoods that down't lead anywhere is you do have to replace the filters in them, ones that extract don't need filters. Most modern ones have separate filters and grease screens, the grease screens normally fit nicely in the dishwasher or sink for easy cleaning and John lewis is good for the filters.

to be fair if you're smoking up your kitchen that much that you have smoke all the time and need a hood vent, you're doing it wrong

yeah - the hood requirement is primarily a fire code issue. I spent about 25 minutes the other day at 5am reading about hood requirements in commercial kitchens while trying in vain to discover what the 2008 code changes were to bathroom requirements for places of assembly.

when i was 12 i was part of a delegation of kids my age who went overseas to the british isles--i suppose under the pretense of spreadiing positive perceptions of intelligent young american students (funny in and of itself) but we really kind of just went places and did tourist things--and every time i'd go to shower some brat would take advantage of my fear of a) the dark and b) being naked by using the switch outside the bathroom to combine them. then again we did catch a pair of breasts on late night tv in the hotel room so i guess i came out even

is it just me or is this story implying that flicking the switch caused this poor dude's clothes to fall off

You've seen benny hill, right?

i dunno, but it isn't like you can't see breasts on late night tv in US hotels.

Or even on cable at a relatively early hour.

i have a hood but i never turn it on. grease screens? are you deep frying every meal?

Well you know how after a year or so, everything you've put up on top of the cupboards - i.e. the dreaded Top Shelf That Must Not Be Mentioned - is mysteriously sticky, and dust has stuck to the stickiness, and you have to stifle a barf and you climb down from the chair and vow never again to look at those things again, and think to yourself that you may have to hire someone to come and remove it all when you move out, and possibly burn it, because it is so foul? A hood with a grease screen would have solved that.

we can't put anything on top of the cupboards, they are built into the wall and go up to the ceiling.

PWNED

sarahel that is... brilliant

I hereby call for a nationwide re-engineering of kitchens

just leaves you with a lot of cupboard space you can't reach, unless you've got extremely low ceilings?

everywhere i've ever lived/visit/burglarized has had hoods/extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom. i get annoyed when there's only a single switch in the bathroom and it turns both the fan and the light on. waste of energy, too.

xp - our ceilings are a standard 8 feet. The top shelf in the cupboards is pretty much devoted to kitchen-related gifts from relatives that we rarely, if ever, use. My bf can reach them, I will stand on a chair.

Totally read that as "If my bf can reach them, I will stand on a chair."

"If I've misled you in any way, Mrs Matthews, then I will stand on a chair"

xp - he's got very good reach.

i keep all my gold and life savings on top of the kitchen cupboard because even burglars won't go there.

if you stir fry food to any kind of degree you'd kind of need to extract the smoke somehow.

. i get annoyed when there's only a single switch in the bathroom and it turns both the fan and the light on.

This. Really don't want droning fan coming on when staggering to toilet w/hangover.

Switch outside is handy though, as if you're in the bath reading by the light from the window and suddenly it gets dark or evening falls or the like, you can just lie and holler in your laziness until someone comes and turns on the light for you.

Merdre Merdre

is it just me or is this story implying that flicking the switch caused this poor dude's clothes to fall off

if you don't get entirely naked to take a piss i don't know what to tell you (except that you're missing out).

(i was showering)

i have a cousin who does that but to be fair he is only 2

i've seen light switches outside the bathrooms in u.s.
just saying

The light switch in our place is outside the bathroom and it's one of the most annoying fucking things ever.

the children are our future, Tracer Hand

Andrew Kornfan, are you a newish poster around here or an oldish poster with a new name? Either way, you are killin' it on this thread and I thank you for that

new, no -ish. cheers

i'm gonna follow you on twitter so what you're gonna do about it

probably keep writing bad poop jokes or whatever

take it to the bay

But I was washing my hair and had my eyes shut, so my response was somewhat delayed.

― surfing on hokusine waves (ledge), Monday, October 12, 2009 4:11 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

I always wondered who really showers as demonstrated in the Herbal Essences commercial.

The light switch in our place is outside the bathroom and it's one of the most annoying fucking things ever.

THANK YOU. I can't even explain "what's the problem?" because it seems so obvious to me that the light switch for a room should be inside the room in question. it takes a perverse mind imo to say "for this one particular room, the switch should be on the outside." and many more perverse minds to say "yes, of course, how else could it be?"

Our kitchen does not have a range hood.
Our bathroom does not have a fan.
The lightswitch in my ex-boyfriend's kitchen turned on the front left burner of his stove.
All of this is in America.

^^^^ put that to a beat and you've got the next DFA single

obviously every bathroom in the world should be retrofitted with rope light connected to:
http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/clapper.jpg

GIK GIKKA GENIUS TAKE US THE FUCK OUTTA HERE

LOL

Ivana: When did you get "The Clapper"?
Austin: November, 1964, Dutch East Indies, shore leave.

The Clapper in bathroom not a tenable solution for those of us conditioned by years of training to vigorously applaud our own successful trips to the toilet

you shouldn't be so self-deprecating about your music, J0hn, plenty of people think it's good.

i greet every shit with quick appreciative finger snaps and a bongo glissando (been reading ginsberg)

sarahel giving me really wicked ideas for how to be an interesting interviewee

i don't know if that's funny but i posted it because it's true (xpost, natch)

today i apparently gave an artist friend the idea for a video piece in which he hires a dominatrix to dominate him sexually and simultaneously critique his work. i'm apparently on a roll.

^^^^ wow can't wait til j0hn d's next album

ok you guys let's get back onto the important topic of how light switch outside the bathroom is a sure sign that humanity is doomed

you know what's funny is that I said this same thing once in London and then Suzy explained the same thing in response

I think the obvious solution here is that J0hn needs to record some popular trance tracks in which people sing about how hey, Americans put the lights inside, and contrary to expectations we have not all electrocuted ourselves yet, so don't be afraid, don't be afraid, f-f-feel the light of your bathroom soul

dominatrix critic might be pretty harsh during her reviews of that

xpost----I think the music video might be the most interesting part though.

1. I can count 10 places I have lived in the U.S. and none of them had switches on the outside of the room (bathroom or otherwise) in which the light was.

2. I have been to places in the U.S. where this is the case (small offices and other people's homes).

3. I always furrowed my brow when I encountered a switch outside of the room from the light it controlled.
a. And been anxious over the lack of control of lighting that this situation presented.

4. Up is on as surely as down is bad.

What is the standard of relative direction for Hot and Cold water for you?

lightswitch down for on is the traditional electric circuit style, ie you used to throw the switch down so it would complete the circuit. picture dr. frankenstein throwing the switch to bring electricity to his monster-in-waiting.
lightswitch up for on is the abstract/linguistical style, ie the level of light in the room is going UP when you switch it. makes me sense for everyday use.

makes *more* sense

Okay, so say I've got a pair of switches inside my bathroom where one controls the light and the other controls the fan. I reach in and flick up (as George Washington intended, big ups USA) the switch closest to the door. What do you think should happen? Because before I moved I would've said "the light turns on" but now the answer is "the fan turns on and I flail around in the dark like a douche for five seconds."

Remaining a bit puzzled by people saying "why u need extractor fan, are you constantly deep frying" etc

When I was in kitchens without any kind of exhaust fan - or even just one in the window - the walls and ceiling would eventually gum up with sticky residue, just from general cooking, you'd be suprised.

Now if you think "well, I clean the walls every few months silly" then think what a good exhaust fan is preventing having to do! Seroiusly, I dont deep fry anything, and eithout one, everything in my kitchen eventually got this veneer of sticky dust exactly like Tracer described. How you lot not getting that 'appen?

But I use my stovetop between 1 and 4 times a day most every day, and much of that involves steam, pan frying, etc. Maybe some of you just dont cook, I donno.

I had an extractor fan, but I deep fried it

lol previous owners of our house inserted the big whole-house fan vent over the walkway next to the stove in our kitchen. seemingly in lieu of an extractor fan over the stove. yes please suck those grease fires right up into the ceiling. facepalm.
I do like our house. dysfunctional though it may be.

oh it's just a lightswitch.

So, if you have that 'Clap' thing installed, and listen to The Rapture while on the bog?

Instant disco!

THANK YOU. I can't even explain "what's the problem?" because it seems so obvious to me that the light switch for a room should be inside the room in question.

Why is it "obvious"? In the cases where the switch is outside the bathroom, it's not like it's hidden in some faraway corner, it's almost always right next to the bathroom door. So unless you can explain why you find this a big problem, it's kinda hard to see where the problem is.

yeah, tbh thinking hard about it (thanks ilx) isn't it natural to turn the light on in a room before you enter it in the dark?

Exactly!

I'm not saying that placing the switch inside the bathroom is wrong in any way, but only complex cases like Laurel's can I see the outside placement causing any trouble. And like I said upthread, in some cases, like when you're using an unfamiliar bathroom, it's easier if the switch is outside, so you don't have to search for it in darkness.

"only in complex cases"

"only in complex cases"

Lots of the bathroom lights in places I stayed in the US had little lamps on them so you could find them. When you need a light to find the lightswitch, suggests something's wrong.

this thread swings wildly with timezones, i think

we shoudl get a lock in now while the euros have it

that genius

was william shakespeare

― Bobby Wo (max), Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:45 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban

this is killing me. what is it from?

also, are 8ft ceilings really standard in U.S. apartments?

p.s. the light switches are outside bathrooms in germany and it is RETARDED

bathroom lights should be controlled by bits of string. you are all of you fucking savages.

Our bathroom lightswitch is outside the bathroom in our current place, but I think it's the only place I've ever lived in that has it like that. Usually just have the pull-string lightswitch in the bathroom. It did annoy me at first but I've got used to it now.

we shoudl get a lock in now while the euros have it

think again you crazy euros, I'm Paris suffering through your insanely placed light switches and will hold down the fort for sane light switch placement til my brethren get to their workdesks

pull string are u guys serious, we should go back to pull string

when in rome, get over where the lightswitch is.

wtf, my apartment in Paris has light switches in the bathroom. Maybe it's hotels that fuck this up?

I am exploring bioluminescence as a way of combating the pernicious Euroswitch menace

what are you gonna have to eat to make that work, i wonder

i had to delete a really good joke there darraghmac

"really good"

what are you gonna have to eat to make that work, i wonder

Parisians

pieces of string are the emergency cord or the fan switch

Or the shower switch

or the escape hatch

or a tampon

the house my family moved into in 1979 had glow-in-the-dark light switches in the bathroom!! truly we had arrived in a hybrid retro-future of walnut veneer, mustard-yellow carpeting and possible radioactivity (my mother believed the switches would slowly kill us)

if you leave mackerel out long enough in damp conditions, they'll glow in the dark, j0hn. just sayin.

The mackereleconomic situation precludes that tho

^ shoot me now

jesus, try and kipper to the topic at hand

Sorry I'm hard of herring

^ please kill me

So far people have called outside light switches "perverse" and "retarded" without giving any explanation why they are perverse or retarded. Seems like this is more of an ad luminem attack against poor light switches than an attempt to have a rational discussion on them.

Isn't it a hygiene thing?

No, it's an electrical safety thing.

i c wat u did there tuomas

ffs, watt

Yeah, hygiene thing doesn't actually make any sense, scrub that... and your hands before using the light switch

I have seen a light switch catch fire when the bathroom above it was leaking and the plaster around it got damp. Putting them (or even worse mains plug sockets operating at 230-240V) inside humid bathrooms where the people operating them often have wet hands is nuts.

Like suzy says, this may be less of an issue at the lower voltage in the U.S. They put 110V shaving sockets in bathrooms in the UK.

if you don't dry your hands when you leave the bathroom, how is it going to make any difference where the lightswitch is?

I guess the point is that a damp switch from the humid atmosphere + damp hands = a problem.

interesting. probably safest just not to wash your hands.

Or pee in the dark.

i sit down for my night time pees anyway. it's just lovely.

I always sit down unless I'm in some dirty public toilet. I never saw the advantage of peeing while standing.

x-post

so peaceful...just the creaking of the house and the luminous gloom of the smallest room...

so peaceful...just the creaking of the house and the luminous gloom of the smallest room mackerel...

i think i finally get John's complaint. fumbling in a dark bathroom for the switch is no problem for a hardy American who is used to such things - but if said hardy American suddenly realizes there may be no switch AT ALL in there, confidence gives way to a scrabbling panic

living in any house with lights that aren't controlled via an iphone application is living in the fucking stone age to be brutally honest.

my bathroom light doesn't turn on until you can rearrage 7 random letters to form a valid word on the iphone. it is an arena of constant Scrabbling panic.

apparently in the microsoft offices in seattle you have this card that you carry round with you, and the light switch appears on the side you prefer.

it doesn't work, though.

that genius

was william shakespeare

― Bobby Wo (max), Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:45 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban

this is killing me. what is it from?

also, are 8ft ceilings really standard in U.S. apartments?

― caek, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:55 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

f u

Microsoft Loo ==================
  Where do you want to go today?
        [no 1] [no 2]

Windows 7 Party in the bathroom

no seriously dude, where is it from? xxp

u must have misheard me

f...

u

felix ungar

Bathroom scene in Richard III

so this is what it feels like to be tuomas

is this a lightswitch i see before me? in the bathroom?

caek, it's a quote from a belle and sebastien b side

"If I must shite, I may encounter darkness as a joek and forsooth proclaim "hey, I am in here!"."

caek, it's a quote from a belle and sebastien b side

AH that's where I remembered it from!!!

LOL actually I thought it was an old Paul Harvey story complete with preg pauses (I am in a state of underinformed re. B&S, amazingly).

Anyone want to tackle the low pressure of British showers whilst we're at this?

Europe is more of a wilderness than I even presumed.

showers as in washing apparatus or showers as in large inerect penises?

The former. Why I hate UK showers part 3784747

i have never heard, nor could i ever quote, a belle and sebastien lyric. i'm very sorry for deceiving you all.

don't be, it was pretty awesome

So far people have called outside light switches "perverse" and "retarded" without giving any explanation why they are perverse or retarded. Seems like this is more of an ad luminem attack against poor light switches than an attempt to have a rational discussion on them.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:17 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Dude, I'm pretty sure that this has been explained repeatedly, but in case I'm wrong: Because when the switch is outside of the room, the person in the room is at the mercy of pranksters outside. Because most other rooms, the switch is located in the room with its corresponding light.

If you are concerned about fumbling for a light switch in the dark, then wouldn't you also want a light switch for your home's entrance to be located outside of the home?

When I move into a new place it takes me maybe two nights to get used to switch locations and then I'm all good.

tuomas' sense of humour is amazingly underrated

amazingly.

thank you for shining a light on this issue

If you are concerned about fumbling for a light switch in the dark, then wouldn't you also want a light switch for your home's entrance to be located outside of the home?

!!!!!

Or for your car ignition to be on the outside? Think how handy that would be.

I used to work in a building with motion sensor lights in each room, including the bathroom. They would turn off after about 5 min. of inactivity. I think that's a good solution.

The upper floors of the state court building have those, but the sensor is way inside, so the lights don't come on until you're well inside. That is confusing and distressing the first time one rushes in with urgent business to execute.

wouldn't you also want a light switch for your home's entrance to be located outside of the home?

actually, yes i would!

tho i fear for the future of horror movies if this ever came to pass

jesse some people's (ahem) excremeditation habits would make a 5-minute motion timer a particularly bad idea for the bathroom

some people need to shit faster

I mean seriously, if you are REGULARLY sitting on the toilet for 15-20 minutes at a time, you are not actually using the bathroom; you are being a jerk.

or to clap during, as was suggested earlier

i read the paper on the loo. my house has four of them, though.

well la-di-da, your house has four papers

jerk

I think the motion sensor detects a user's excretions.

Really though, I think you probably don't sit completely still during defecation.

Also I could be wrong about the cutoff time for the bathroom. The offices were 5 min.

hi dere really pissed that he can't afford four papers in his house and i can- that's your problem dickwad.

;_;

i like to lean back every now and again during defecation, just for a bit of leverage.

dude, why are you going on the papers, u r not a dog

cos i'm afraid to enter my bathroom in the dark ;_;

Is the prank thing the only reason? Cos the novelty wears off when you 3 years old. Also: mutually assured destruction.

okay light switches outside the room are annoying but livable; light switches outside that destroy both the person in the bathroom and the person outside mischievously turning it off is just a step too far

The prank thing, but also a sense of being not immediately in control of the light.

So is it true, as stated above, that in Europe the technology is not in place to prevent electrocution from a switch inside the bathroom? Or was that just conjecture?

It is true that we use a higher voltage, and have higher current limits on our circuits that could be more risky in a humid environment. We don't mandate RCDs on sockets in the bathroom in Europe which is one of the reasons they are power restricted. Conceivably an RCD could be fitted to the lighting circuit to protect the user but that would be expensive and, as has been mentioned before, if you want a light switch in the bathroom you can have one it just has to be a pull cord switch so the user is isolated from any potential hazard, that said these seem to be out of fashion.

Jesse, you don't have the technology in the U.S. either, but your wild west ways and city level building codes means that nothing has been done about it and PEOPLE ARE DYING.

*Of natural causes.

at 220v, naturally, you die

Well at least we're safe from the roving bands of American bathroom pranksters.

not when we come over here, I have totally blacked out six people's crapping today

...absolutely no way in hell I ever write a sentence that good again in this lifetime so savor it people

Seems you're now understanding the simple joy of l.s.o.t.o.b.

The prank thing, but also a sense of being not immediately in control of the light.

It's not as if you couldn't just turn out the lights using the trip switch by the fuse box anyway.

l.s.o.t.o.o.b I mean.

It's not as if you couldn't just turn out the lights by sawing through the mains connection with a cheese knife anyway.

crapping is an english delicacy, prepared by smearing shit on the skin of bacon before you roast it.

UGH

'ad luminem' was awesome also tuomas head is like a bulb

But what if I get the urge to turn off the light while I'm inside the bathroom? I would have to either open the door and reach out or call a friend to help. Completely impractical.

omg darraghmac I bow before your poetry, fuckin wow

i'd like a rapid strobe effect so that taking a dump looks like you're in some old chaplin film, or a disgusting zoetrope

sorry to disappoint j0hn, but it's actually a line from a genius called...... william shakespeare

maybe a light on a rotating mount that stops a few seconds after being illuminated so you turn it on from outside but can't know til you're crapping which part of your body it will illuminate

swinging, flashing lightbulb would lend a real 'jacob's crapper' vibe imo

europes, have you ever gone to the loo and have a poo in the dark and don't turn off the lights so that when a prankster comes and flick the switch ON instead of OFF you can have the satistaction of having defeated them with your wit and guile??

sorry don't turn ON the lights.

once i put pepper spray in my eyes before i poo so that when the prankster came, I shouted HA HA YOU FOOL I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY IN MY EYE SO I COULDN'T SEE SHIT ANYWAY. I totally laughted at the 'couldn't see shit' bit in particular

and another time, the prankster came and turned my light off, i carried on pooing and ended up getting shit all over my hands when i was wiping, then i cooked them dinner without washing my hand first.

turning off the shower switch is a much more effective prank anyway

do you then turn on the grower switch?

we have tablets that do that, but as yet no switches

http://www.finalsense.com/news/image/laptop/fujitsu-lifebook-p1610-tablet-pc.jpg

Stronger voltage relative to America might also be an issue.

I think, basically, that the USA has shite electricity - see also their lack of electric kettles.

never been so happy to see a little red x

see also their lack of electric kettles.

too many people died when they stuck their hand into the kettle to turn it on.

I'm about to go over to my MN neighbours who most certainly have an electric kettle.

most of us dont tho

its true

don't have a kettle? my house has four (eat it hi dere)

Do many American households have kettles of any kind? (I have an one.)

electric

i have a kettle, but most ppl aren't sucking down tea all dang day and don't need a dedicated electric kettle

don't have a kettle? my house has four (eat it hi dere)

one for each toilet? so you can drink coffee while having a shit on your newspaper in the dark. sweeeeet.

I have an electric one. A friend criticizes it as a needless uni-tasking device.

xp

although, my old roommate was apparently unfamiliar enough with the concept of kettles that, when tasked with getting one for the house, got a teapot instead

it heats water! you can do lots of stuff with hot water, your friend is a retard

hands up brits who boil water in electric kettle before pouring into saucepan on gas stove

Only if I have to cook Pasta in a hurry.

Why get a kettle when you can microwave a pyrex measuring cup full of water?

I got one when I read a stat somewhere about how much heat is wasted when bringing water to a boil on a stove. Like, 70-80%?

xxp fuck leisurely cooking pasta

I do that. It's much faster. xp - I mean that I electric kettle water before putting it into a sauce pan.

gbx - she says that the same thing could be done on the stove top with a pan or regular kettle.

We don't have stoves over here, we have cookers

Why get a kettle? Who are these geniii?

I've also read that microwaving water is an energy-wasteful way to heat it.

I've read lots of things and believe most of them.

not to mention the dangers of SUPERHEATING

Takes longer, sure.

ooh can we get started on switches you have to throw in order to turn the hot water on, so you gotta decide half an hour ahead of time "I think I'll shower in a little while here" or no hot water for you? this is more euro plumbing madness tho mercifully the hotels have adopted the revolutionary "hot water on demand" policy that's sweeping many of the other western countries

nb Dan P this really is the case, switches you gotta throw to heat the shower ahead of time. Bavaria thinks it is an awesome set-up.

I lived just outside of Stuttgart for a summer and have no memory of this, so clearly I was so scarred by the experience I have repressed it

It's more efficient to heat the water when you need it.

think the Bavarians are just having a bit of a laugh at J0hn there

otoh maybe this is what got Hitler so wound up

I must admit tho that the phrase "throw the switch" makes me think of gigantic fuckoff Frankenstein switches which are always awesome so points to Bavaria

We used to have one of those switches-for-hot-water. It's when the whole genius heat-houses-with-the-power-of-electricy-alone fad was sweeping the nation, and we had big immersion boilers. Bloody stupid.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44484000/jpg/_44484714_screaming203.jpg

"Frying tonIGHT! And a shower in 30 mins..."

How do you wash your hands without hot water? What?

We used to have one of those switches-for-hot-water. It's when the whole genius heat-houses-with-the-power-of-electricy-alone fad was sweeping the nation, and we had big immersion boilers. Bloody stupid.

When did this stop being the norm? This is certainly what I grew up with and in a lot of the places I've lived since.

Not with a kettle for a kick off! xpost.

How do you wash your hands without hot water? What?

Uhhhhhh, with cold water?

"German efficiency" as a concept makes "intelligent design" look like hard science

Cold water hand washing seems fundamentally wrong.

Soda water.

When did this stop being the norm?
Haven't lived in a house with it since late 1980s. Perhaps I've just been lucky always moving to areas with gas, though.

On the same 1980s note, when did power cuts stop happening so regularly? I remember them happening all the time in winter when I was a kid -- we all knew where the torches and candles were -- but can't remember the last time I had one.

Cold water hand washing seems fundamentally wrong.
Takes so long for hot water to come through our pipes it makes no difference which tap you use.

Cold water hand washing seems fundamentally wrong.

Pampered or what?

for some reason I decided to read Jesse's post as if "cold" was being used as an intensifier a la 80s hip-hop slang

"I can't hear ya, I said what's colder than washing yr hands in cold water?"

In Ecuador, locals don't take hot showers much, so hotel showers are apparently outfitted with an electrical heating device on the shower head, according to someone I knew who went there.

cold showers in a country where the avg temperature is 1293809451633498325 degrees doesn't seem so outlandish

On the same 1980s note, when did power cuts stop happening so regularly? I remember them happening all the time in winter when I was a kid -- we all knew where the torches and candles were -- but can't remember the last time I had one.

Don't get me started on one of my pub routines, "When was the last time you changed a fuse?" but, when was the last time you changed a fuse?

uh also hot water costs money

The Circuit breaker - cause of the death of alternative comedy.

Changed a fuse? 2 weeks ago.

Fuck buying a switch unit.

It's more efficient to heat the water when you need it.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 16:18 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

think it depends how frequently you need it

hittin switches on bitches like i been fixed with hydraulics

are the switches inside the bitches or outside?

On the same 1980s note, when did power cuts stop happening so regularly?

Come join me for a Northeast Ohio winter. I promise you at least three.

On fuses: When we bought our house 3 years ago, it still had fuses. Before we even moved in I had it upgraded to breakers.

It's more efficient to heat the water when you need it.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 16:18 (10 minutes ago)

This may not really be true. We were looking into replacing our water heater with one of those on-demand units, and I talked it over with my dad, who has a 20+ year career in engineering and facilities management, and according to him the difference in cost and efficiency at the residential level is negligible.

Cold water hand washing seems fundamentally wrong.

But it's character building

Pampered? It's just standard. Plus countless PSAs have driven home the absolute necessity for hot water and soap in preventing the plague.

many xps

I have an electric kettle.
I do not have a microwave.
I last changed a fuse in 1993.
USA USA USA

My mom has this cockamamie idea that it's better to wash your hands in cold water anyway, because cold water closes your pores and therefore prevents the germs from getting inside your skin or something.

I don't think I've ever changed a fuse. I've reset a breaker many times, though. I think fuses are like illegal or something.

xp - holy shit that sounds like something my mom would say, except she is deathly afraid of cold water b/c it will kill you on contact or upon consumption.

and according to him the difference in cost and efficiency at the residential level is negligible.
yeah, but one means you can leap into the shower 5 mins after you wake up, and the other means you have to wait an hour. (unless you mean some other kind of water heater)

holy shit that sounds like something my mom would say, except she is deathly afraid of cold water b/c it will kill you on contact or upon consumption.

It does sound like something your mother would say! It's kind of out of left field for my mom, who is a nurse, FFS. She also spent most of last week sending me anti-H1N1 vaccine articles.

don't most boilers have timers on them so you can set it to start heating things up at, say, 7am or whenever??

but then you are a slave to the machine

"i want to stumble into a dark bathroom and turn on the hot water immediately"

get this, my living room has no built-in light fixtures, but some mystery light switch that turns on NOTHING

It is the light switch to your neighbor's bathroom.

(unless you mean some other kind of water heater)

I mean one of these:

http://www.factricity.com/images/water_heater_blanket/Water_heater_blanket_02.jpg

Holds 40 gal. of water and heats constantly. As opposed to one of these:

http://images.digitalmedianet.com/2006/Week_2/81fknpea/story/9water_heater.jpg

Which does not have a tank and only heats water when you are using it.

I have a light switch outside my solarium, also my apartment has a solarium

there's some guy in Paducah who has no switches but a light that mysteriously goes off and on at random times.
xp to mandee

Holds 40 gal. of water and heats constantly.
Ah, that's just like an immersion heater that's always on, then. My aunt had an ancient immersion heater that didn't have a thermostat, so if she forgot to turn it off it would loudly boil over in the middle of the night, and we'd have to get up and run taps where hot steam and boiling water came out until it was emptied. Ludicrous.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8S4ztcFJM7E/Son60UAWctI/AAAAAAAAEpg/gVakUIZNKOw/s1600/BoilingWaterEnergy.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8S4ztcFJM7E/Son-VEejFBI/AAAAAAAAEpw/tn_ueONnXfw/s1600/BoilingWaterTime.gif

It doesn't take 6+ minutes to microwave water for tea.

I was gonna say, what gimpy hand-operated microwave did they use in the tests to generate that data????

get this, my living room has no built-in light fixtures, but some mystery light switch that turns on NOTHING

Suggest Ban Permalink
― homosexual II, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:00 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

my living room is the same, except the mystery light turns on the power for one of the power sockets. Into which you can plug in a lamp.

those are great

Backing that out I reckon they are using a 1000-1200W microwave, which is pretty butch.

it seems like they've never actually boiled water in a microwave before and therefore haven't noticed that the water often remains still until you disturb the meniscus

Of course I don't know is a microwave is rated on system power or synchotron power. If it is synchotron power then it probably has 800W on the weee sticker on the front.

ew

xpost

"disturb the meniscus"

That may also be the case, they should've used a dirty cup.

what if some prankster decided to stop your microwave while it was in the middle of getting something hot

i ask you

When you boil water in a microwave, you're supposed to put a chop stick or something in it so that it doesn't explode all over your hand and burn you, which I believe is what happened to Freddy Krueger.

Dude, I'm pretty sure that this has been explained repeatedly, but in case I'm wrong: Because when the switch is outside of the room, the person in the room is at the mercy of pranksters outside.

Is this sort of pranksterism really a huge problem? I've never ever heard anyone complain about it. If you live with people who regularly do this, maybe it's time to move somewhere else...

The prank thing, but also a sense of being not immediately in control of the light.

Why would you have to be "in control" of the light when you're inside a bathroom? Is there some reason why you'd need to turn it off while you're in there? Are you scared of seeing your own poo?

when you're inside the bathroom, you are not in control of the light, if the switch is outside the bathroom!

SHUT UP

THAT WAS FOR THE FINN SORRY SARAHEL

an epidemic of poo fright is sweeping the nation

lol "the finn"

I think I'm done with defending my position on light switches' locations. The fact that I have spent this much time doing so is hilarious to me.

when you're inside the bathroom, you are not in control of the light, if the switch is outside the bathroom!

Yes, but I was asking, why do you need to be in control of the switch while you're in there? Why isn't it enough to switch the light on when you go in and switch it off when you come out?

Tuomas, I think you have mistaken this thread for one in which people want to have a grave and unfunny discussion of something. this is not that thread. stop trying to make this that thread or brace yourself for a frosty wind of suggest bans. the frosty wind will be coming from europe's underheated, dark toilets. I thank you for your attention. P.S. if "Are you scared of seeing your own poo?" leads anywhere near some admission that you are in favor of those groteque German toilets that my band christened "the fragrant platform" in '95, I will do whatever lies within my power to have you brought to trial and imprisoned indefinitely, k thx bye

I like to do a stop-motion effect by flicking the light on and off while flushing my poo b/c looking at poo without special effects got boring a while back.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was in a cabin in a national park recently and this happened two time: go into shower/bathroom in the morning, disrobe, then realize I need more light (there was a window, but I like a lot of light for showering), then realize shit, the switch is outside the door. Had to crack open the door just enough to reach my hand out and fumble for the light without foisting my nakedness on others in the cabin. I guess that isn't an issue for you free-spirited Finns.

poo's early work was much more engrossing

i also sing the Twilight Zone song "doo-doo doo-doo, doo-doo doo-doo" song while i turn the light on and off

tbh foisting nakedness upon others is my raison d'être

it's my banana d'joie

haha oh fuck I typed that without thinking about the fam-name implications lol my bad

So basically this thread boils down to three facts...

1) Americans don't like it when things are different than in America.

2) Americans need to be control of things all the time.

3) Americans have a heavy fear of pranksters.

O_O

also poo effects dont forget poo effects

4) Tuomas's hate of fun does not respect national boundaries

You've been reading ILX for how long and you just came to those conclusions?????

So basically this thread LIFE boils down to three facts...

1) Americans don't like it when things are different than in America.

2) Americans need to be control of things all the time.

3) Americans have a heavy fear of pranksters.

fixed

Tuomas how dare you make sweeping generalizations about America based on light switches

I don't hate fun, I just don't understand it.

Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.
Americans need to be control of things all the time.

5) American ilxors are aware of their country's cultural dominance, and think it's funny to express mock outrage about other cultures not conforming to the American way of life. (see also: pizza)

Donnybrook between two gangsters
And a bunch of merry pranksters
Two against a .22,
Well who d'ya think is gonna win
That...fight...fight?
Ten ta one it's the gangsters,
Those pranksters they can't even fight!

Gangsters like their knuckles bloody
Pranksters spike the drinks of their buddies

Gangsters treat their ladies right
And pranksters curse their chick-less plight
(Aw man, there's no dames)

I'VE GOT ALL THIS HARVARD LSD
WHY WON'T ANYONE FUCK ME ?!?

Whoops, missed an "in" there.

1. Not really, if they still make very good sense, which switch on the outside does not. Also, such madness does exist in the US.

2. Overgeneralized.

3. That's true. Ever since 9/11 we're wary of practical jokes on all scales.

I don't hate fun, I just don't understand it.

....

dammit, he really did just pwn us, and effortlessly too

I thought pizza was Italian?

okay you are trolling us

I'VE GOT ALL THIS HARVARD LSD
WHY WON'T ANYONE FUCK ME
^^^
the line that earned SM a permanent spot in the HOF

i'm still laughing from hearing that the first time

I don't hate fun, I just don't understand it.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:20 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is beautiful

btw grats to Tuomas for the new ILE board description

omg lolling so hard

Tuomas, thanks for stepping up to the plate on quality while LJ is out of commission. It's very LOLpreciated.

This really is a quote for the ages. For real.

Ahem, credit where due, Dang P!

okay

props to WmC for posting on the mod forum that that should be the ILE board description

so excited, my third day posting and i've witnessed history

I've learned my lesson -- quit suggesting things and just do them.

Like bans?

Thank you, tuomas

I've learned my lesson -- quit suggesting things and just do them.

― WmC, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Like bans?

― Tuomas, Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:56 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

if I read him correctly Tuomas means that we should turn the suggest ban button into a straight-up "ban" button

bold thinking T

Maybe if we put the suggest ban button on the outside of the thread, we could SB people without fear of reading their posts?

epic win

this thread has me LOLing so hard. fuck i miss you guys.

The pissing on your belt thread is even funnier.

1) Americans don't like it when things are different than in America.

was stunned to hear a Meth 'n' Red interview last week where they BEMOAN the food when touring in Europe, keeping alive one of hip-hop's oldest memes ever (all rappers exist solely on McDonalds while on tour, which I remember repulsing me as a kid in the 80s and thought would have been eradicated by now)

j0hn we know how you rep for vegemite and kettle chips and jester's pies in the .au, but are you having trouble coming to terms with fitting thick bavarian sausage in your mouth twice daily right now?

fnar fnar

'a thick bavarian sausage that is fitting, to go into my mouth'..

am struggling to come up with a disgusting food that could be called 'fitting'

my new place has two bathroom lights, one of which is fortunately controlled inside the bathroom. otherwise I would have had to reject the house, per this thread.

bump for companion thread purposes

Companion to what?

pissing on yr belt thread was revived yesterday, briefly, all too briefly

lol

every time "pissing on yr belt" gets bumped, this must get bumped too

It would have been over a lot quicker if the lightswitch for der Fuhrerbunker had been on the outside tbh.

― Obscured by clowns (NickB), Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark

dying over here

crapping is an english delicacy, prepared by smearing shit on the skin of bacon before you roast it.

― Brewer's Bitch (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 October 2009 15:34 (1 year ago) Bookmark

The local pig farm went up in flames last night.

The floor gave way during the blaze, said floor being directly above the slurry tanks

CRAPPING