MAD MEN on AMC S4

VERY GOOD HAPPY CHRISTMAS!

SPOILER drape kills cooper

joanie is ceo in hostile takeover maneuver

spoiler.

sally secretly funneling sterling cooper draper pryce profits to viet cong.

SPOILER don falls out of a window onto a giant leg

SPOILER don bangs hot chicks

Kinsey lands the Paul Masson account.

peggy ends up on late-nite subway w/disoriented brian jones, keeps him company but refuses to give him her name or number. he suggests a line to mick: "she would never say where she came from..."

don invents a time machine, travels to 2003, starts blog

henry francis wonders what the fuck he's gotten himself into.

^ seriously!

i'm would also like to stan for Harry btw. going back to the previous, thread. dude's alright.

http://www.nbc.com/Law_and_Order/video/clips/doped/1173400/

See? He kills people!

i wish wish i could see. apparently i'm not allowed to in soviet canukistan.

i'm sure he's all awkward and aloof whist killing tho.

I like Harry Crane! He looks like a Economy Sized version of our own n/a. In fact, in our house, we call Harry Crane "TV Nick."

He does look like a nebbishy Nick, it's true. Nick is way funnier, though. Harry Crane wouldn't even understand the depths of Nicks sarcasm.

Sally Draper as daughter from American Pastoral

Kinsey lands the Paul Masson account.

this wins.

hahaha Yes, yes it does.

AHHHHH the french

I reckon Peggy is having a Duckling. She was looking rounder again in that last ep.

sheesh if that woman hasn't learned birth control by now i will have lost all respect for her. think it was just a tight fitting dress.

lol i'm watching an old satc and i'll be darned if that isn't roger sterling playing carrie's politician boyfriend.

carrie's politician boyfriend who's into watersports

when does s4 hit "our screens"

sally goes on a baby-spiking spree

joan sharpens a boobs to her singularity

betty begins exhaling frost

bert starts a canteen at the new office; learns to use a wok

paul kinsey loses a pencil in his beard

remove bookmark from this thread

SPOILER cutty rebookmarks this thread

not until june

SPOILER^

Am I the only one who really hates don? Like great great character, but dude is srsly a major douchetard and anyone who was surprised by his "u ppl"ing sal clearly does not "get" his character, which is advantageous existential black hole turning beautiful dreams into dirty money guy. Guys major asset is being able to fool ppl into not realising how he is sucking their life force all the time. Also sick of how even semi-wily and sussed characters like that teacher are so easily made hot for a couple of draper inches. Seems for like too seconds like she has her shit together and then bam "sure im prepared to endanger my already fragile position as a woman living self-sufficiently with the communities eyes on me for a bit of consequence-free-for-you happy time." Esp when dude is like the complete embodiment of the cynical dissolusionment that she seems to want to hang daisy-chains off of.

Betty seems to be the only character that DOESNT want to have sex with him now. Also she is an awesome character who is great bc she represents the emergence of 70's feminism from 60's middle-class housewives (realising the labour value of housework etc) and is a smart chick (went to college, speaks italian) who has been infantilised by the stifling oppressive expectations forced on women and also her semi-abusive husband. Seeing her start to piece together the beginnings of a revolution that was still only quietly in the works in white middle class households is one of the better storylines (Peggy's story is obviously way more fun because she is more triumphant)

Am I the only one who really hates don?

Sigh. If he were a real human being, he would be the very worst sort. As a fictional character, he maintains much higher ground.

How many times do we have to go over this?

i read the whole last thread and everybody was assuming hes like this total liberal who's down with the homos wrt sal's storyline, even the bit where he fires him for being a phag everyone is all "oh he really means the advertising world" so

"AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO NOTICES THAT MICHAEL CORLEONE KILLS PEOPLE? AND THAT HE LIVES IN A WORLD VIRTUALLY DEVOID OF SEXUAL, RACIAL OR CULTURAL DIVERSITY?"

"No. You are not."

SPOILER don is not down with homos

I hate Don too.

I love him when I love him, and I love to hate him when I hate him.

We're all watching soap operas, amirite?

Seeing her start to piece together the beginnings of a revolution that was still only quietly in the works in white middle class households is one of the better storylines

agree with this. kind of glad we've migrated to a S4 thread because the S3 one is littered with examples of me mispredicting where the season would end up, BUT i still think that betty's arc, and the emergence of 70s self liberation from 60s containment thing, would be better served by her hitting a glass ceiling in contrast to peggy triumphing. like there are moments at which she's become autonomous and empowered (waiving the mechanic's fee; schmoozing jude-law type in bar) that she then retreats from, and - valuable overarching comment on mad men forthcoming - i think things are best conveyed & most poignantly illustrated when situations don't just work out perfectly for everyone. yeah i wasted a lot of hours watching studio 60 on the sunset strip: what a pile of rainbows.

also i still think don needs some dislikeable characteristics that aren't archaic rogue-isms. make the guy a eugenicist.

I dunno, I think he's already worse than that. He's a born salesman. Individual opinions on that will definitely vary along certain lines that are as-yet ill-defined in our popular language, if not in our popular imagination.

i don't think he does anything that challenges the tight connection we have with him. in his non-asshole-ish moments he's our stand-in protagonist, the guy we can rely to shake his head when someone wears blackface, doesn't take their hat off in an elevator or commits some kind of fifties guyish faux pas.

And yet he's still racist, sexist, and (with special irony) classist in his own ways, which he proves over and over. I agree that he's not the most obvious anti-hero, but that's what's all the more compelling about the character. He gets you on board with him so easily, and then makes you think again about why you would ever like such a man.

kinda feel like the creators are more cynical abt his intentions in these moments, feels more to me like he's so on guard over any faux pas he might make (you know when he tells pete abt not being somebody nobody likes in the first episode, this is his worldview i think) that he avoids making these judgements, not because its right or out of any sense of conviction, but because he doesnt wanna get caught out when the wind changes (he is especially bullying over things like "ladies" not being smart enough overly complex storylines in commercials because he thinks these are in some way "natural" -that is, chicks ARE DUMBER- than things that seem like the manifestation of social change, something that he is told by ppl around him that he is smart enough to realise are "getting it" even if he doesnt)

Granted, that wasn't always apparent in Don Draper, and through the first season especially he was definitely meant to be the audience proxy. But he's getting bigger and less relatable as the writing gets more ambitious, and I expect a lot more messing with the audience's heads in S4.

xp

xp yeah I agree with all of this except that I find him exceptionally unlovable, that is, he never wins me over outside of his assholish conservatism and misogyny. It feels doubly insulting when smart ladeez are so won over by him. One of the problematic things I find about Betty is that she is only really able to see through him when his secret past is revealed (ie she needs this class-based disrobing in order to concretely become dissillusioned with her situation, it is not just that she sees through her reality but that the reality is now not quite as glamorous as it might remain if he were still don draper and not dick whitman)

also hate that tight bristling he does when anyone even slightly crosses him

I'm thinking of Don when he's at his very worst -- it's not after a really bad day or night. His good moods are worse than his bad ones, if you can call any of his moods good. Like, when he gives Peggy the full bitch-out treatment about "Stop asking for things", he is operating under a) excruciatingly patriarchal assumptions, as Peggy points out herself a few episodes later; b) a lack of all of the information, as per usual; c) an enormous sense of arrogance because he just landed Hilton; and d) the "oh noes" pressure of signing a contract. His troubles with his contract are not relevant to anything, and in fact the whole world is going his way, but as someone who is totally self-centered, of course he think's he having a rough day. And so he yells.

think the assessments of don are a bit simplistic here...what are the typical deficiencies or behaviours of a misogynist that he displays? why is he more hateable than any other male character in the show in this respect? he seems less misogynist than those around him if anything. also...racist, when has he shown himself to be racist?

i'm not saying don is necessarily a great human being or something, i just don't think he's the embodiment of evil.

what are the typical deficiencies or behaviours of a misogynist that he displays?

See my last post, for one example.

why is he more hateable than any other male character in the show in this respect?

He's clearly more likable than all of the other male characters on the show, and we are meant to identify even if not empathize. I think what's being argued is that (I could be wrong here) since he's the most identifiable male on the show, he is supposed to stand in for all males ever, and if you empathize with him, you ascribe to his point of view. There seems to be a lingering problem with fictional television that features no totally sympathetic characters at all. Sometimes, characters are not you, or him, or her, or anybody, they're just fictional, and can demonstrate pieces of one's self without completely embodying it. Telling some people this is like breaking the news to them that there is no Santa Claus.

really? I find him way worse than anybody else, because his displays of power and manipulation (having betty's therapist ring him for updates) and even violence (when he manhandles Betty in the last episode, grabbing bobbie barrett in) are more aggressive than anybody outside of villains like joan's rapist husband.

Roger is pretty bad, even if his ugly divorce and etc. occurred offscreen.

somebody like Roger sterling feels less accountable by dint of his privilege insulating him, dons first hand experience of under privilege never seems to rub off in the form of empathy or anything like that.

also, the way in which roger and his wife split was different, all this lioness talk, it never really seemed like he tried to whittle her down to something more malleable and controllable like don does with betty (the heineken dinner party kinda shows how he views her as a status symbol, at least roger wants his marriage to be based on something else, even if he's confused abt what that is)

Agreed!

Look, you don't have to like ANYTHING about Don Draper. But clearly you have watched a whole whole lot of this show.

I fucking LOVE this show!

Because you hate the main character so awfully much.

I know, sorry... that's not fair.

The main question is when should I do the season 1-2-3 (in blu-ray! so gorgeous) marathon? And how many bottles of bourbon per viewer?

but kenan your example is don being self centred and an asshole as much as specifically misogynist. also he has a pretty good reason for not wanting to sign a contract, he is pretty fucked up by this weird double identity he has created. you can argue about what sort of person that entire dick whitman thing makes him, but i think it's a bit simplistic to call him a misogynist, does he actually hate women? does he like men any better? he doesn't particularly like or trust anyone.

the heineken dinner party kinda shows how he views her as a status symbol

and betty doesn't play up to that role? does she view him as anything more?

does he actually hate women? does he like men any better? he doesn't particularly like or trust anyone.

Damn fair point.

And yet... he does nail anything that's roughly as pretty as himself and still breathing. There's a little bit of misogyny going on there. Really, now.

most sympathetic thing he's done in the entire show is prob visiting peggy that time. he is also good with the kids, lets not forget betty's horrible behaviour with them on numerous occasions.

x-post is sleeping with lots of people misogynist?

fwiw i'm not trying to make don seem like a great guy, just think he's a set of behaviours, not really clearcut asshole to me.

The difference being?

I mean, by that criterion, I'm anointed for heaven, except that I have done a lot of things that are bad.

the heineken dinner party kinda shows how he views her as a status symbol

and betty doesn't play up to that role? does she view him as anything more?

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, April 4, 2010 4:57 PM (17 minutes ago)

specifically she loses the plot when he reveals to her that she has been duped as the "typical housewife," there is a difference between supporting your husband in a way that corresponds to your role as housewife and just being a cog in the machinery of his life the way he makes her (his prediction of her behaviour reduces her to a component in his plan for the night, she seems more appreciative of Carla than he does of her)

With Betty in Italy I got the sense that she was embarrassed by the rube behaviour of her nouveau riche husband, who cannot be taken out amongst the smooth Euros and buys her underwhelming tourist tat he thinks is impressive. It's a class thing - once she has blatant proof of the social gulf between them (despite his successful career) she begins to look for a way to climb up and out.

^^^this is depressingly true abt her

but also, that is an episode where using her Italian reminds her of her previous life as a model and that she is a college educated woman, it must be hard as a beautiful, educated woman with a glamorous past not to feel constrained by Draper house just hangin w. Carla and ridin ur horses

There's always a voice in Betty's head saying, "Is he as beautiful as you are?"

the answer is "no" btw

Right. Which is interesting, I think.

the new guy isn't exactly a step up in the looks department tho, imho.

also, henry francis is gonna be bad news.

xp She climbed that ladder already. The new guy is a lateral move. Like in Donkey Kong.

lol

feel like henry francis is like the second stage she has to go through, realising that its not just THIS marriage that is unsatisfying for her, but marriage itself. She's bought into a lot of responsibilities, especially the kids, that shes trapped with, and she's looking for a way out, since this is a trail that is not really being blazed (think of the reaction to the woman who used to live down the street) she's not ready to consider striking out on her own as an option, also the way henry francis seems to want to make her need to rely on him through the divorce is a bad omen.

And it's not that she isn't also an anvil-head - I don't think Don would have dismissed the possibility of civil rights in the callous way Betty did. She is not so much empowered by the 60s as clinging to the class entitlements a woman of her background takes as a consolation prize when real control is not available. She doesn't consider it any big deal to disempower those beneath her and she is downright hostile to women with more power too.

Henry Francis may well be bad news but he's on the Social Register, and not in tacky advertising. This matters to women who are channelling Grace Kelly and wondering where the fuck *their* prince is.

what's been really interesting to me abt the betty storyline is that it shows how civil rights movements are born not out of a high-minded distanced preference for fairness, but out of need, necessity and dissatisfaction. Like Obviously she is bored and wants something better in a pretty self interested way and she's started to understand her own worth and power within the context of a domestic situation, and so she presses for more.

i re-watched the "sal directs the patio commercial" episode last night, and it struck me how kitty romano's "i don't need much, but sometimes i need TENDING" comment was right in tune with the whole betty friedan women-gotta-get-theirs thing. i like how feminism rears its head in subtle ways on this show.

or not so subtle ways like naming betty betty

i've wondered whether kitty was named after kitty genovese, whose attack happened in the early '60s.

have to say looking at betty above peggy as the feminist arc in this show is bananas. betty's empowerment is basically just her latent and weird hatred of her kids plus matching don's rotten behaviour with an affair. peggy on the other hand is living her life without need for a status sham marriage. betty is a pretty ugly human being imo, as is don in ways, but at least he has a passion/skill for what he does. and to be fair it took what, a month for the whole henry francis thing to happen. betty and don's marriage is a disaster, and both of them are at fault. all of that said, people watching the show like don because his ideas for ads are really good...quite simplistic reason to like but that's it.

and the idea that betty has any sense of responsibility towards the kids...well, she treats them horribly. you just can't give betty credit for some genuine empowerment because she actually treats those kids like it's their fault she's a mother and they are holding her back.

Your mother didn't?

well i mean, peggy is my favourite character, i just think s3 was esp interesting for how much they seemed to want to make betty's story sound like the introduction to the feminine mystique.

i'm not sure how "horribly" she really treats her kids, guys.
she's not going to win mom of the year or anything and she certainly seems more interested in herself than them. but it's not like she beats them or forgets to feed them.

or locks them in closets or anything

'tis a rarity.

have to say looking at betty above peggy as the feminist arc in this show is bananas.

totally OTM. if anyone's the most sympathetic character on this show it's Peggy.

And Betty's more hate-able than Don imho. They're both narcissistic brats, but at least Don has IDEAS. Betty's like a 12 year old.

but it's not like she beats them or forgets to feed them.

yeah, she asked Don to do the beating.

Betty's a horrible mother straight up.

just feel like peggy's story is closer to how we have come to expect the sisters doin it for themselves story arc to unfold (makin it in a MAN"S world) Betty's story just doesn't feel like one i've been told before in this kind of context and is interesting to me because it relates to a lot of stuff i am interested in so.

Betty's story is Carmela Sopranos story

(albeit removed by several decades)

although i never watched the sopranos i cant imagine that to be true based largely on the majorly different social conditions a woman in her position faced given their respective historical periods.

well not never watched ive seen it, but not enough to know what carmela's story arc is

she made the beds, shopped for groceries, matched slipcover material, ate peanut butter sandwiches with her children, chauffeured Cub Scouts and Brownies, lay beside her husband at night--she was afraid to ask even of herself the silent question--"Is this all?"

watch the Sopranos

Carmela couldn't get out of her marriage with Tony because she had no skills, no external social structure to support her, no real understanding of any world beyond being a rich gangster's wife. In addition, she was completely co-opted to stay in the marriage by the money, status, power, and amenities that went with it. She endured an unfaithful and amoral husband, sometimes attempting to manipulating him into being a better man, at other times fantasizing about escaping from him. The key scene about Carmela is when she goes to visit the rabbi - who tells her she will never be free of the stain of guilt unless she leaves her husband, something she never manages to successfully do.

and that quote about Betty applies equally to Carmela 100%

mad men is the first tv show ive properly watched in years and my first box set thing (never thought id actually bother sticking a series through) so yeah, i fully intend to get round to the sopranos, i remember watching it for a lot of the series when adrianna(?) was snitching on them but i would always forget to watch it and rte kept moving it around in the schedules

does seem tho that carmela lives in fairly exceptional circumstances whereas betty is supposed to be representational in some ways of the kind of growing feelings that would eventually lead to the feminist movement, at times in a very didactic and at other times fairly problematic way.

(first wave feminism has been fairly strongly criticised for its narcissism in eg not really considering people of other socioeconomic classes, minorities etc -this is seen fairly harshly in betty's easy dismissal of the end of segregation if its gonna cause so much hassle, though you could say that this is an attitude she also takes to her own liberation)

also, betty comes from a rich family and is educated, but social/legal positions mean that she probably could not even claim her own inheritance if she divorces don

Carmela's rich but not really educated - as opposed to the rather direct, literal representative relationship between Betty and first-wave feminism, Carmela functions more as a metaphorical stand-in for American suburban 90s moms: fully cognizant of all the (predominantly male) ugliness and violence that her shallow, consumerist lifestyle is predicated on. Outwardly she's in denial of it, but internally she is deeply conflicted. She has no available avenue of escape, and is explicitly denied the tools to forge one of her own, eventually accepting it because hey, after all she has a man to take care of her and gets lots of jewelry and SUVs and furs and flashy nouveau rich shit.

So Carmela doesn't embody a particular movement that's been intellectually codified, but I think she is still very much a stand-in for non-working, middle class American wives in a similar way that Betty is. And they are both trapped in similar ways. And both of their character arcs move in the same direction - dissatisfaction with a stultifying role, shitty parenting, realization of husband's infidelity, fantasies of infidelities of their own, confrontation, attempt at separation, etc.

Well reasoned, Shakey Mo, but dunno how much I agree. In at least one sense, Carmela semi-implicitly endorses heinous criminal acts (her 'status quo' accepts all manner of disgusting awfulness) in the name of personal gain and very significant familial stability. Contrariwise, Betty's initial – albeit gradually abnegated - "typical" '50s/'60s housewife role does not seem to be enacted to the ends of personal gain or familial stability: she is already wealthy; as I read her, she doesn't care a hell of a lot about keeping the Draper family together and functioning (except as outwardly visable). In the case of Carmela, there is a deliberate act of painfully-pulling-wool-over-one's-own-eyes; in the case of Betty there is a deliberate move toward painfully-removing-the-wool-from-one's-own-eyes.

oh I think, at least early on in the series, Betty definitely turned a deliberate blind eye to Don's drinking, whoring, etc. and Don also, like Tony, makes every attempt to keep Betty in the dark regarding how the outside world functions and what his role in it actually is. Oddly, I think Carmela's actually smarter than Betty - Carmela was pretty adept at both manipulating Tony and seeing through his bullshit. Betty is a bit more oblivious, at least initially. (Post-Don's confession about being Dick Whitman she doesn't harbor any illusions really).

I think you have a good point that Betty really doesn't care about the family and stability in the way that Carmela does. But she DOES care about her own financial security, which is explicitly tied to her being married. She has no other means of support, she HAS To be someone's wife if she wants to maintain any kind of status or material comfort.

^^i think that this is where betty is right now, but i really feel that henry francis has to be the final nail in the coffin of that way of thinking for her.

ur really selling the sopranos to me, gonna see how expensive the s1 box set is in hmv 2mo

yeah I'm v. curious to see how they handle the Betty/Henry Francis arc - obviously no one here expects anything good to come of it. I've found Francis fairly contemptible ever since he was introduced perving on pregnant Betty (if some stranger had wanted to feel up my wife when she was pregnant, creep-o would've received a punching)

Sopranos is well worth the investment imho, altho I found the entire series for like $100 a few years ago (which seemed appropriate, it was like it "fell off a truck"). That series really changed how television dramas work imho - there's a clear line from Twin Peaks to Sopranos to Mad Men.

(there's it's lots of me blathering about the Sopranos on the Sopranos vs. the Wire thread FYI)

to Breaking Bad, etc.

Mostly on point, Shakey, but I don't know if I agree about the shitty parenting (in Carmela's case, anyway).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ryFcDoWEjg&feature=player_embedded#

<3

puttin the ham in Hamm there lol

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/2010/04/amc-announces-season4.php

so... how old is Sterling supposed to be? I'm kinda confused as to his chronology - he fought in WWII, was married for 30 years to Mona, had an F. Scott Fitzgerald fixation as a young roustabout... so, he divorces Mona in '62, that means they were married in '32. So he had to be at least in his 20s by then. But if he was born in the 10s that means he would have been in his late 30s during WWII and isn't that kind of old to have been serving in combat...? Or am I doing some math wrong.

draft age was 18-38 after Pearl Harbor so it’s not unheard for someone in their late 30s to have served in that war.

coulda been an officer

Slattery is 47, I always assumed his character was around his own age.

http://nerve.com/features/true-stories/homosexual-schmomosexual

cuet

i like trudy a lil more now.

so i'm sure someone has said it, but kudos to Alison Brie being in the best sitcom and best drama in the same year.

double true

some hints about the new seasons

Betty married to creep-o already. wonder how that's turning out lol

wow. way to go! Guess I won't be clicking on this thread till the season's over.

ooooft, spoilers already; dan otm

Yeah. Jesus Christ.

Wasnt Betty going to Reno to get married in the finale...? I think that was to be expected dudes..

I apologize for nothing

No, she was going to Reno for a quicky divorce.

To get married to Henry. Not exactly super-shock.

haah tf

also premiere reveals that Don is a serial killer and Cooper is actually the Lindbergh Baby

Just stop.

Great posts about Carmela/Betty, was already thinking about Tony/Don, but yall made my points too. Although Don's not a boss, he's a manager (as well as Creative Director and has points in the firm, at least was supposed to be there to vote on merger, but Bert says his points not signif percentage). So a junior partner without a contract before the merger (and before Conrad Hilton, the Daddy Draper of poetic comeuppance, re salesman- ship and scorpion/Soprano proclivites). And manager as hatchetman (like Joanie), when duty calls. Then Sterling and Cooper can kick back and pontificate.

I'm kind of scared, I don't remember anything about this show

We're doing a season 3 marathon Thurs-Sat w/ S3 finale on Sunday, then early 1960s themed (possibly, no menu yet) dinner, then S4 premiere.

I should use the "Happy Eating from Alaska" pamphlet cookbook I got last weekend for recipes - put together by the Ketchikan LDS branch in 1961.

SPOILER don falls out of a window onto a giant leg

― max, Monday, November 9, 2009 10:11 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

great. now you've spoiled me.

saw hamm in a preview of that new affleck boston gangster shit this afternoon, looked pretty doope

Yes. I'm on board for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECq3J7L4gw

HAMM AFFLECK RENNER THE TOWN

Oops. The perils of only looking at your bookmarks.

im more interested in discussing 'the town' in the context of 'mad men' tbh

He's also gonna be in the Allen Ginsberg biopic; bet (hope) he plays Kerouac.

he doesn't

mad men is on the cover of the current cahiers du cinema

happy ladies

lol

lois!
http://www.styleite.com/media/crista-flanagan-playboy/

she de-dorks well

Haha you all think the people in this show are real

Has the first episode been discussed somewhere else? I think I have all the MM threads bookmarked.

Great opener, the new agency is bringing a genuinely different atmosphere to the show, it seems lighter, snappier and somehow younger. I adored Peggy in this one. Any hints as to what year we're in?

SterlingCooperDraperPryce: Mad Men Season 4

Ta.

WTF WHO TF IS SILBY FUCK THAT OTHER THREAD - IM GONNA DO AWFUL THINGS TO IT THIS IS THE REAL MAD MENS S4 THREAD

lol

its true this thread isn't even that long and I've never heard of silby either...

BEST THREAD, THIS ONE, GET BACK TO YOU ONCE IVE WATCHED EP1

this is where smart people post insights re s4 mad men on amc

taking this kinda personally eh

XD

i started this thread MONTHS ago and now some n00b shows up a/horribly titled thread pfffft

oic

So, am I the only one who, when Don brought the kids back home to the empty house, said "Oh hey, was the car running when Henry pounced?", and hoped they'd be conveniently dead in the garage?

^^^totally thought this

but yeah lol wishful thinking

can't we get a mod to lock/delete the other thread or something

we can re-post all the relevant posts here

Betts divorces her Rockefeller supporter after realizing that Nixon's got sexier stubble.

― balls and adieu (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:05 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hooray, this is my first season watching it live! i can't wait to be annoyed by the "previously on MAD MEN" bumpers before each episode.

― it sucks and you all love something that sucks (reddening), Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:38 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Me too! I'm going to watch it in DVR real time!

― Official Cheese-Filled Snack of NASCAR since 2002 (B.L.A.M.), Sunday, July 25, 2010 5:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

HAs this been on yet? I'm confused by international timelines.

― The great big red thing, for those who like a surprise (James Morrison), Monday, July 26, 2010 12:36 AM (21 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's starting right now!!

― selected ambient worker (another al3x), Monday, July 26, 2010 2:01 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Joan: "I won't even tell anyone after it airs."

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:29 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

despite having not yet seen most of s1 and all of seasons 2-3, i am watching this. who's the cute guy in the sweater vest who works with peggy? (when i started watching, i always thought pete was a lot more interesting than don. will have to catch up asap..)

― wears suburban hang-ups on her sleeve like some kind of corporate logo (daria-g), Monday, July 26, 2010 2:40 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ooooooh this starts tomorrow? i thought i would carry on waiting forever.

― a hoy hoy, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:43 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tonight? omg tomorrow download fest :)

― a hoy hoy, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:43 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

HOLY SHIT @ the last 2 mins of the episode!

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:52 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― symsymsym, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:52 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

who's the cute guy in the sweater vest who works with peggy?

He's a new hire. He wasn't there before.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:53 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

HOLY SHIT @ the last 2 mins of the episode!

totally

― iatee, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:54 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what was it about the last 2 min?

― wears suburban hang-ups on her sleeve like some kind of corporate logo (daria-g), Monday, July 26, 2010 2:58 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

squealsquealsqueal

gooood episode

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 2:59 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what was it about the last 2 min?

Don Draper, gunslinger.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:02 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, I'm psyched. Great episode.

― Mexico, camp, horns, Zappa, Mr. Bungle (Matos W.K.), Monday, July 26, 2010 3:07 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"we all know this is temporary, henry." burn!

― del griffith, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:08 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

rubicon seems sorta x-filesy so far

― iatee, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:08 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Oh, that reminds me... Sally Draper regurgitating her sweet potatoes FTW.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:09 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm waiting on Rubicon so I can see all two hours at once.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:09 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(xpost) i don't blame her. although i liked henry's mom calling betty trash.

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 3:10 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, Henry's mom is on point.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:11 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

anti-betty zing best part of a very good episode

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:21 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol @ bobby really hamming it up once sally left the table, that poor kid deserves his chance to shine

― it sucks and you all love something that sucks (reddening), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:00 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that was so funny!

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/07/25/mad-men-a-conversation-season-4-episode-1/
^^^ wsj blogging about this, i was reading thinking it was just a review and then he's like "toril what do you think" and i wondered.. is that toril moi? in the wsj? it is! this group is going to discuss every episode..

― wears suburban hang-ups on her sleeve like some kind of corporate logo (daria-g), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:11 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Fantastic episode. The Betty/Henry burn, Kiernan Shipka being all grown up (and main cast!), delicious bits of the all-too-infrequently-shown Don/Peggy relationship. Not enough Joan, no Pete and Trudy Time yet...but the time will come.

omg u guyz i luv this show

― silby, Monday, July 26, 2010 4:41 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah great episode!

― i'm the kind of challop that's built to last (latebloomer), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:43 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol at Harry Crane's sunburn!

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:55 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

delicious bits of the all-too-infrequently-shown Don/Peggy relationship

yes, he paid for the ham ladies' bail! quid pro quo for peggy getting him out of jail.

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:14 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that one line about two of the four test-market stores for the ham being in jewish neighborhoods = classic

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:16 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol @ bobby really hamming it up once sally left the table, that poor kid deserves his chance to shine

hamming it up
jon hamm
the ham fight
harry coming back looking like a ham

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:18 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ham goin ham

― i'm the kind of challop that's built to last (latebloomer), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:19 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

or rather, hamm going ham

― i'm the kind of challop that's built to last (latebloomer), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:19 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hammacher schlemmer

― DâM-EdnA-FunK (get bent), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:21 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ham conspiracy

― silby, Monday, July 26, 2010 5:22 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

liked the british invasion music at the end. what song/band was it?

in any case, perfect way to underscore the emergence of the NEW DON

― i'm the kind of challop that's built to last (latebloomer), Monday, July 26, 2010 5:24 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Using Google I've discovered it was "Tobacco Road" by The Nashville Teens, who upon closer inspection seem to have been neither teens nor from Nashville.

― i'm the kind of challop that's built to last (latebloomer), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:06 AM (15 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the boards of canada/of montreal of the 60s

― symsymsym, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:09 AM (15 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

really love how mad men always introduces me to strange/entertaining 1960s cultural detrius

― symsymsym, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:10 AM (15 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Is it weird to be proud of a TV show getting better all the time just because you happen to have been watching it from ep 1?

― I can use my expense account if I say they're whores (CONGO, M.D.), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:10 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

was don's date the preacher's wife from true blood?

― the tape store called... (cozen), Monday, July 26, 2010 9:49 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"believe me, henry, everybody thinks this is temporary"

~ice cold~

― the tape store called... (cozen), Monday, July 26, 2010 10:13 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That was the True Blood girl, can't wait to see her slap Don.

― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Monday, July 26, 2010 12:31 PM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

The best thing about Mad Men is watching the women go at it like crabs in a barrel - I've said before that the way they check each other is the most interesting thing about the series.

― the phantom flâneur flinger (suzy), Monday, July 26, 2010 12:44 PM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

great episode, anyway, I thought

― the tape store called... (cozen), Monday, July 26, 2010 1:41 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Great opener, the new agency is bringing a genuinely different atmosphere to the show, it seems lighter, snappier and somehow younger. I adored Peggy in this one. Any hints as to what year we're in?

Line of the episode: "We can charge them to my expense account if I say they're whores."

― rhythm fixated member (chap), Monday, July 26, 2010 1:48 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Thanksgiving, 1964.

― orakle-krake (Gukbe), Monday, July 26, 2010 1:48 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

The pace did seem so much faster than anything in previous seasons. What a great start!

― Jaq, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:14 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's 64 and not 65? betty and dude married that quickly?

― akm, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:16 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Line of the episode: "We can charge them to my expense account if I say they're whores."

I enjoyed how no one even blinked an eye. I almost wished that Peggy had, but if anything, it's pretty obvious that she's able to hold her own now, even in that obnoxious interaction outside Don's door.

This whole Don Draper: Gunslinger thing is kind of new for him, isn't it? He's always been the guy to stick to his business principles and get things done, but he's always been modest. Or at the least, had a lack of confidence that made it seem like he's constantly proving himself. I feel like Don is somehow more adult now, although that might not mean much.

I don't know if it's sad or responsible that he's calling hookers.

― turtles all the way down (mh), Monday, July 26, 2010 2:18 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, but remember Roger and Jane also got married v. fast. And the comment about the Rockefellers when Happy had only been divorced a few months. (xpost)

― Jaq, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:20 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

better a call girl than that 25 year old friend of Jane, imo.

― Jaq, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:22 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's 64 and not 65? betty and dude married that quickly?

Betty and Henry went to Reno in Nov or Dec 63, whichever month Shut the Door technically took place, specifically so she could get divorced and then they could marry as quickly as possible. (Part of it was possibly motivated by Rockefeller campaign commitments in 64 for Henry...? Dramatically it moved the action forward asap, and now put Henry in his spot: He didn't have time to consider he was making a mistake, which he already seems to realize.)

― scottpl, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:31 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

huh i hadn't worked out the dates -- i was hoping the rockefeller defeat would play into the plot somehow. it seemed ominous to me in s3 that henry is presented as a man on his way up, considering we know all along how that turned out. by thanksgiving all that would be over with, even the general. rockefeller was gov for like forever so how he's just another guy with a job. maybe that's a little too nerdy to be intentional.

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:51 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i got a hint of meta about the scenario of this ep: a franchise that's made its mark, a new star, really can't consider itself a scrappy upstart anymore, the "mystery man" angle is played out...

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 2:55 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

great episode - was dying when Sally spit out her sweet potato. and yeah great finish with Don firing his clients + self-mythologizing. also great to see Peggy so assertive/comfortable

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 3:33 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i got a hint of meta about the scenario of this ep: a franchise that's made its mark, a new star, really can't consider itself a scrappy upstart anymore, the "mystery man" angle is played out...

oh absolutely, that's a great take on it.

― ryan, Monday, July 26, 2010 3:35 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so how long before Don's into full on S&M bondage gear

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 3:52 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I figured out the date at the end when Don was talking to the WSJ guy. "A year ago, we..."

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 4:32 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this was also like the 3rd or 4th time they used some civil rights milestone as a time marker

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:33 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they seemed to be trying very hard to work that in.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 4:41 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i got my year of kennedy assassination confused in my head, was thinking last year was 64 and this was only like a few weeks later.

― akm, Monday, July 26, 2010 4:55 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I hope they keep making references to the "second floor"and never actually show it. "we can't show you the second floor"

― ryan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:19 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think that's going to be a running thing. like the (lol) table.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:23 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe they have a storage room/locker on another floor?

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:23 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

They don't really have a second floor. They just tell people they do.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:32 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

oh! did they say that? i thought they had a technical reason that allowed some of them to claim a second floor.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:35 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the new agency is bringing a genuinely different atmosphere to the show, it seems lighter, snappier and somehow younger.

Did you notice that Don's new apartment is smack in the middle of Greenwich Village, at Waverly and 6th Ave? Hell of a place to be in 1964.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:37 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

great how the last line was don advertising that second floor lie.

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:38 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm also wondering if ep 2 is going to start with Don catching hell for going overboard in his interview 2.0.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:38 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

They don't really have a second floor. They just tell people they do.

Right, and listen to Don at the end of the episode. "Within a year, we had taken over two floors of the Time Life building." He's reinventing himself again.

Crackling ending.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:38 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

xp Yeah

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:38 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i've noticed the ties changing actually!

xposts

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:39 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i thought onion av rvwer dude was astute in pointing out the contrast of all the snappy new stuff to don's fusty antiquey "bachelor pad" complete with doting mother to cold shoulder.

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:42 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Come again?

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:42 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm also wondering if ep 2 is going to start with Don catching hell for going overboard in his interview 2.0.

No way. They wanted him to go overboard the first time.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:44 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so how long before Don's into full on S&M bondage gear

I think the ending implies that he's done punishing himself.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:44 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Did you notice that Don's new apartment is smack in the middle of Greenwich Village, at Waverly and 6th Ave? Hell of a place to be in 1964.

I don't know my individual streets of America in history - want to go into detail?

― a hoy hoy, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:46 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dunno if it was just the dramatizing of don's inner psychosis or whatever but from that episode i got the impression of a new kind of misogynistic slant more on the show's part than from the characters... like all the female roles in their social progress seemed linked to everything that don is corrupted by and succumbs to by the end

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:48 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the Village in '64: folk scene still booming post-Dylan, comedy galore (Cosby, Lenny Bruce), jazz (hello Village Vanguard) . . . really hopping then

― Mexico, camp, horns, Zappa, Mr. Bungle (Matos W.K.), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:52 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this ep was kind of boring

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:53 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lots of writers too
xp

― mizzell, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:54 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i thought onion av rvwer dude was astute in pointing out the contrast of all the snappy new stuff to don's fusty antiquey "bachelor pad" complete with doting mother to cold shoulder.

first shot of interior of Don's apt prompted my wife to note: "Don sure loves living in the Depression"

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:54 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and maybe he'll hang out with jane jacobs in the village

― mizzell, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the Village in '64: folk scene still booming post-Dylan, comedy galore (Cosby, Lenny Bruce), jazz (hello Village Vanguard) . . . really hopping then

And right around the corner from Andy Warhol and the Velvet Underground, artists galore, and on and on. The Village was the center of the American cultural universe in the 60's.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Right, and listen to Don at the end of the episode. "Within a year, we had taken over two floors of the Time Life building." He's reinventing himself again.

could've sworn Don went even farther and said THREE floors

xp

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

could've sworn Don went even farther and said THREE floors

Nah. I downloaded it, and just reviewed. He just says two. Which is lie enough, really.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 6:58 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i was really struck by how dark the cinematography/lighting was in the don's bachelor pad scenes. (though the emotional effect/link they were going felt just-this-side of too-obvious.) (maybe i just got used to mad men being kinda bright and snazzy even during the nighttime scenes.)

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:12 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I realized a moment ago that I should have said "The Village was the center of the American COUNTERcultural universe in the 60's."

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:20 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wasnt it really dark in the restaurant on his date too? like when she gets up to show him her dress?

agree that this ep was kinda boring...idk i might not care abt this show anymore, too?

― johnny crunch, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:21 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

like when she gets up to show him her dress?

furry boobs are never a good look

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 7:22 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Nice detail I just noticed: when Don slams the door at the end of the ep, you can see the whole cheap makeshift wall shake.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I used to get this from mininova or ninjavideo. Now that both are kaput, I'm lost. Where are dudes getting this?

― Ron Raper, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:44 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

P1r4t3 b4y

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:45 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://watch-series.com/

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 7:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eztv

all mad men episodes are 'boring' except the lawnmower one. stop being a child.

is it me or did don's date look remarkably like jan jones?

― a hoy hoy, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

just you?

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 7:49 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah def going with "just you" on that one.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 7:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is it me or did don's date look remarkably like jan jones?

I got that too. I kept thinking, 'Enough with the blonde society chicks! Go find Midge again - she's probably your neighbor.'

― Grand amiral de la marine des licornes (Michael White), Monday, July 26, 2010 7:58 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Ha, for real. I miss Midge.

― kenan, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

don's bachelor pad scenes. (though the emotional effect/link they were going felt just-this-side of too-obvious.)

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Monday, 26 July 2010 20:12 (57 minutes ago)

haha i always feel a little like "too-obvious" is this constant minor personal game to play with mad men (partly to do w/ trying to self-limit how much of a 60s retro twerp you're unconsciously being too i guess) -- but yeah when they brought in the s&m femme-control-issues don development i thought that was a little broad and lol, though effective

and also really is that stuff any less obvious than don's "the boy behind bars" successful ad metaphor, or the wooden leg of korean loss or whatever

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

any MORE obvious rather, soz

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what about the wooden leg?
i thought it was really weird no one mentioned Don's being in the war at all after that thing with the leg.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the wooden leg of Korean loss was great I thought, worked on a few different levels (set-up for Sterling joke, highlights the cruelty/missed opportunity of Don's denials at the interview, etc.)

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

like Don could've swapped war stories with the guy except OH SHIT NO HE COULDN'T lol

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i guess (and esp in comparison to the braggin 2nd interview later) the wooden leg is like the sudden dick whitman reminder in that scene; maybe also in its stumble representing the awkwardness/emotional disabliity of the current don situation - also in roger's reaction the callousness of the backlash to come, i dunno

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i read it like this: sterling cracks some gruesome jokes about it cos that's what soldiers do, and it keeps anyone from getting weepy about it, plus since he was in "the big one" he gets to be a dick to korea vets (remember the dinner scene). don doesn't say anything cos he's not much of a soldier and doesn't have the right thing to say. pete is a blueblood dickhead so he gladhands the guy.

that reminds me, when is joan's useless hub going to die in vietnam?

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

highlights the cruelty/missed opportunity of Don's denials at the interview, etc.)

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 July 2010 21:26 (1 minute ago)

i get the impression (from this and other comments) ppl weren't too sympathetic to don before he switches it up at the end? i kind of saw the denouement as him falling to other people's level - not that he's an angel to begin with but still he stood for nobler things than the changing tide around him. i feel the awful brash carelessness of his pitch to the family swimsuit company at the end bears this out

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and how he ends up playing the same trashy game as peggy's staged ham fight after dresssing her down for it earlier - great scene with her saying the image of the company's "where he left it" when he hadn't really done anything wrong in the first place originally

― r|t|c, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...though it do have to remind myself that dick whitman's time in korea wasn't a complete fraud -- he did get shelled for chrissake, that's plenty real.

xp lol i kept myself up half the night with this imagined scenario where don does a (tm) off-the-cuff pitch and gets the swimsuit dudes to get over their virgin-whore problems and just sell the bikinis to the fully alive american woman. or something. with joan as prop, humiliatingly.

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but no, he just bails on the whole thing...

i have to say if this whole season is about don draper just letting shit rip, bro!!! i'm going to be a mite dissappointed

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:37 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that reminds me, when is joan's useless hub going to die in vietnam?

yeah looking forward to this episode lol

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:37 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i get the impression (from this and other comments) ppl weren't too sympathetic to don before he switches it up at the end? i kind of saw the denouement as him falling to other people's level - not that he's an angel to begin with but still he stood for nobler things than the changing tide around him. i feel the awful brash carelessness of his pitch to the family swimsuit company at the end bears this out

sympathy for Don from the viewers here always seems muted/clouded by other things, unless I'm misreading people...? Sometimes he seems noble and creative and you wanna root for him, other times he's a complete asshole. As far as the denouement goes I didn't see him firing a client (!) as being sinking to others' level, obviously that was something only Don would do and everyone else at the agency was mortified by it. But it was immediately followed by him heeding everyone's instructions to clean up his mess and take control. And it's usually pretty exciting to watch Don take control.

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Don firing the client and doing the second interview are both part of him exerting control over the image of the company - but the former is rooted in the narcissism of his creativity, and the latter in his pragmatism/need to please his father figures

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:43 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Don "pitching" a fit when the swimsuit guys didn't like his concept was some bush league antics there. they were very clear about what they wanted and without any apparently research he decided that they were doomed if they didn't all ignore everything they'd just said the day before.
i saw it as a creative failure, really - that he couldn't manage to muster anything within the parameters they'd laid out - or even had any sort of back-up plan when he decided he knew better than the client.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:48 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well, losing your shit at a client like that Is Not Done, right? that's kind of creative, in a way...

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:49 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he didn't just fail, he told them to TAKE THEIR THINGS AND GET OUT. made a sandwich out of the hand that feeds, basically

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:51 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i've heard of firing clients before, but never for not agreeing on creative direction. that was indeed pure narcissism pretty much.

xpost - ha ha exactly

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:53 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Didn't realise I'd missed this show until I watched this episode.

Given their reliance on Lucky Strike + the business clearly not doing that well, not sure how long Don Draper the primadonna is going to last.

― Matt DC, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:54 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Or going to be allowed to last anyway.

― Matt DC, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:54 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if they're going to pay you either way - you do what you're asked and take the money. if you're going to blow off everything they said they stand for/wanted - you better have a back-up plan, mister.

i think Don was taking out his frustrations on anyone he could. if he'd been in a better headspace he might have stuck to the plan the client had laid out.

xpost - was wondering that too. i thought it was pretty obv that the second interview was to try to make up for blowing his top there.

― now breathing manually (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, July 26, 2010 8:56 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Don firing the client and doing the second interview are both part of him exerting control over the image of the company - but the former is rooted in the narcissism of his creativity, and the latter in his pragmatism/need to please his father figures

The former is Don doing what he wanted to do to Betty. The client meeting started with the whole, can I put my foot on your coffee table and Sterling saying 'sure, treat this place like your living room' etc. Don's "get out of here, get your things and leave" could have been word for word a blow-up with Betty at the house.

― scottpl, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:59 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Worth noting: guy puts his feet up, "make yourself at home"-- don's anger is surely partially directed at Betty and new husband

― ryan, Monday, July 26, 2010 8:59 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

huh i didn't even put that together. duh.

― goole, Monday, July 26, 2010 9:00 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sounds like they also have staffing issues...? like part of the reason he didn't bother coming up with any backup plan was because he didn't have Sal and co. to rely on and all he had was this one thing he knew would work if they would just accept it.

good pts about Betty/domestic scene being mirrored in the workplace

xp

― Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, July 26, 2010 9:00 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Crap. xpost!

― ryan, Monday, July 26, 2010 9:00 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

So, yeah, it's him taking bck control but he took control of the office via WSJ; he became determined to take eventual control in his personal life with the clients, presumably.

― scottpl, Monday, July 26, 2010 9:01 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sal didn't really come up with ideas, right? he just did the art. the new guy who hangs out with peggy is his replacement.
but they mentioned not having the staff to do what they could do at the old sterling cooper.

― mizzell, Monday, July 26, 2010 9:04 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark

hmmm wow that's kinda more obnoxious-looking than I anticipated sorry

lol

needs more blue.

anyways - i like the other thread title better. a much more attention grabbing headline.

needed more zazz

let the people decide

WHICH MAD MEN S4 THREAD YOU LIEK BETTER??

otm on zazz - almost used that word myself.

http://www.theawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Screen-shot-2010-07-26-at-9.11.55-AM.png
http://www.theawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Screen-shot-2010-07-26-at-9.12.06-AM.png

So they did take Don's advice, but they took it elsewhere.

lol

well the actual campaign isn't quite as risque as Don's (legs crossed instead of parted, no suggestive 'CENSORED!' black bar across the top, etc.)

that is a ridiculously modern looking image they used for the fictional ad, btw.

Yeah, totally American Apparel.

I thought that too, that it looks at least late 70s... also where is model's left arm...?

Except for the camel case in the text, which seems an especially odd choice given that the logo is all lowercase.

http://www.theawl.com/2010/07/footnotes-of-mad-men-the-bikini-the-ham-the-firm-and-his-hooker

lol

I was going to lock the other thread and keep the older and longer thread but then I saw ice cr?m's whiney little Suggest Ban rampage and changed my mind.