best Cronenberg poll

trying to pick between the brood and videodrome

Dead Ringers over The Fly, although Videodrome through Naked Lunch is a helluva sequence.

the brood (1979)
scanners (1981)
videodrome (1983)
the dead zone (1983)
the fly (1986)
dead ringers (1988)
naked lunch (1991)

^unfuckwithable streak

sorry Ray Stevens

xp - would totally agree - haven't actually seen dead zone though.

voted for videodrome; the brood is great but the rage babies are a little silly whereas videodrome is just disturbing the whole way through

Dead Zone is great!

anyway def Videodrome

the rage babies still terrify me - even after seeing the movie 5 times.

just watch last night again, uh, last night, cronenburg acts in it.

can't believe I haven't seen over half of these, voted for Dead Ringers

Videodrome pretty handily.

kinda tempted to vote for Naked Lunch for Ornette soundtrack, giant bugs, and Julian Sands

dead zone is indeed really good. voted dead ringers. the worst date movie ever.

The whole cast in Naked Lunch (Ian Holm, Roy Scheider, Judy Davis) is superb.

xp - saw this w/ soon-to-be-ex-bf, but i think we both have a penchant for things that would fall under the category of horrible date movies.

gotta go w/brundlefly

eXistenZ. No joke.

but it's kinda a remake of Videodrome -- but not as good as the original

We have to have done this already, right?

I'm voting Brood, because Jeff Goldblum is already going to get adequate support (deservedly).

xp - but not since i've been here.

I need to see M. Butterfly.

What was the name of the weird culty self-help type book in The Brood?

think I've seen everything here except for the pre-Rabid stuff and M. Butterfly. I don't think I even know what M. Butterfly is about lolz...

video google has some early stuff

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5802520938040356462#

I would like to take this opportunity to rep for shivers

Did anyone else see Spider? I totally missed it when it came out but caught it on video a yer or two back and it was really special. I thought the book was pretty much unfilmable, but as with Naked Lunch Cronenberg makes it work. Except for M. Butterfly (which is alright but nothing special) I really like or love everything from The Brood to the present.

Went with Naked Lunch; one of only two movies that when I walked out at the end I bought a ticket for the next showing. Seeing it twice in the theatre with only a fifteen minute downtime really etched it on my brain.

shakey, m butterfly is an adaptation of a famous broadway play!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Butterfly

Shivers is the scariest movie I've ever seen.

The Dead Zone, with Eastern Promises, The Fly, Crash, A History of Violence, and Dead Ringers all close seconds, Dead Ringers and Crash maybe docked for taking bizarre violent sex a tad too seriously, though on some days these are probably my favorites. Then maybe Scanners and The Brood, which I barely remember, and Videodrome, which was prophetic but pretty silly--James Woods felt wrong--and eXistenZ, which was fun but also sort of tiresome. Only flat-out dud: Naked Lunch. Haven't seen the rest.

xp cankles: brundlefly was pretty awesome.

there are so many freaky, nihilistic sequences in shivers

it opens with a middle aged doctor inexplicably strangling his teenage lover, cutting open her torso, pouring acid into the body cavity, and slitting his own throat

then things start getting crazy

Re: Woods in Videodrome, I mean wrong as a time-bomb believer in the new flesh, not as a sleazy small-time cable exec, which he was born to play.

i really dug Spider, too. that said, i guess i gotta go w/the mainstream vote of History of Violence

shivers has this great one-set economy/claustrophobia thing going on

it's his night of the living dead

except instead of zombies it has sex vampires

shivers is really great

I want to see Shivers and a few more of his movies, but some of the ones I've watch have seriously bothered me. I think it's all of the fleshy holes and mucus covered objects. It's rare that a film has made me actually sick to my stomach.

the Fly is a thing of beauty imo.

head says dead ringers / heart says eXistenZ

kinda bummed thinking of all the times I passed on the shivers DVD when it was around for $10

waaaay out of print now

nd I've watched and enjoyed many unsettling movies; Salo and too many horror films to mention. But Videodrome, Dead Ringers, and some of eXistenZ made me feel like throwing up. I never even finished Videodrome. That said I really enjoy his last two films.

Are his early films the sort that Criterion would rerelease? They already have a few of his films out.

crimes of the future is a bonus feature on the dvd of fast company i think

I think a friend still has my copy of Videodrome! Gotta get it back.

I need to watch some more older Cronenberg. I think I have a handful of his newer films by virtue of the fact it's an instant buy anytime I see one under $15.

xp: stereo is on the fast company dvd too.

don't much like Naked Lunch, esp after Judy Davis exits.

I like perverse romantic comedies, so The Fly over Dead Ringers, Videodrome and Crash.

don't much like Naked Lunch, esp after Judy Davis exits

There's only 10 minutes left!

What is all that shit before Shivers? TV or short film?

ultra-modernist/structuralist/etc "science fiction"
see google video link above

The Brood has always been my fave.

i'm also surprised by the number of these i haven't seen

frankly i think eastern promises may be his best yet

it's gotta be the fly, though i'm surprised at how few i've seen.

i STILL get mixed up between cronenberg and lynch.

re-watched Eastern Promises recently and its good and all but its one of those "twist" movies that is kinda lacking. "History of Violence" has similar failings, altho I think that one is a bit better and has some more genuine ideas behind it.

Crash is his masterpiece IMO.

eXistenZ. No joke.

yah def butt i mean i like all of these that ive seen

ok Alfred, i meant after JD gets shot the first time.

eXistenZ is probably still my favorite too, but its pretty close cuz most of his stuff is pretty good.

i'm just curious about why those who prefer Existenz to Videodrome do so.

I wouldn't say I prefer it...but it's a more mature version of the same thing, you know? It doesn't take itself quite as seriously as Videodrome does at times.

Plus it's much more coherent than Videodrome without sacrificing an ounce of narrative playfulness, sort of The Matrix meets Celine and Julie Go Boating.

Haven't seen the first five and never heard of Camera. But I like/love all of the others to varying degrees with my beloved Crash topping the list.

i loooooove eXistenZ. A History of Violence is a close second.

eXistenZ is more playful, but Videodrome has Debbie Harry. Don't make me pick.

I think the image in any Cronenberg that squicked me out most was at the end of shivers when the old bearded man has the two little naked girls, on leashes, on all fours, largely bcz it lacks that unreal patina that all his crazy body horror stuff has. Too real.

Shivers is extremely underrated. The stuff at the beginning with the ads for the apartment building is the funniest stuff he's ever done.

EXISTENZ IS PAUSED! schlump

for a first film, shivers is a pretty ballsy shot over the bow

watching some of the scenes I'm like "they let him do this?"

then again he was widely pilloried in canada after it came out, cronenberg suspects he was kicked out of his apartment in toronto for making it

people were calling him a pornographer

so what did he do for his next film? cast an actual porn star in the lead role!

<3 U cronenberg

it was not his first film. there are like five films before it on the poll.

four, whatever.

first full-length

Probably Shivers for me. Afraid I haven't been at all impressed by anything he's done since Dead Ringers, and I found Spider such a painfully dull experience that I've given the last couple a miss, despite positive reviews.

I guess you could say crimes of the future is full-length but it's more of a student film imo

xp

I seriously have to see videodrome again

saw it once in the 90s and I think I was half asleep

but I did read the novelization when it came out

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/videodrome_novelization.jpg

man, was I the weirdest kid in middle school or what

also had this one

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/scanners_novelization.jpg

I originally saw Rabid and The Brood (separately) at drive-in theaters when they were new, and not since. Was heretofore unaware of Fast Company; it's a drag racing movie?! Own a VHS of Videodrome, used to love it but I'm not sure I still would. Still have never seen Dead Zone. The Fly is good, slimy fun, but I honestly haven't much liked the ones I've seen from Dead Ringers on.

Well, at least it's not just me!

I voted Scanners but it could've been any of his early movies.
After The Fly he became a "serious" director and I completely lost interest.

Madame Brundlefly sounds like a good movie mashup.

^^ would watch

Absolutely.

Is The Fly his 'Daydream Nation'?

After The Fly he became a "serious" director and I completely lost interest.

This, but The Fly is great and Crash is the one I'd salvage from the since.

your nonserious/serious divide is bullshit

A little bit true, his gore flicks were also pretty serious.

What they were not, tho, is boring, which is what A History of Violence is.

I didn't think A History of Violence was that boring -- definitely less fascinating and exciting than the bodily horror films, but Ed Harris was great, as was what's-his-name with that line, "How could you fuck that up?"

"your nonserious/serious divide is bullshit"

probably - but for example here in Italy Dead Ringers was considered his coming of age movie, while instead it is (at least for me) his first truly boring film.

serious/non-serious may be a bit of a blunt instrument, but I think he became a different sort of director at around that point.

It looks like a distinct early/late divide is opening up here.

Dead Ringers is dead boring (altho not as bad as Crash, which is maybe the only truly terrible film of his I've seen)

Dead Ringers is his funniest film! Also: Genevieve Bujold is hawt.

love existenz

has special resonance if you've grown up with the cancon bland production style it's riffin' on

scanners (1981)
videodrome (1983)
the fly (1986)
dead ringers (1988)
eXistenZ (1999)
a history of violence (2005)
eastern promises (2007)

love these in particular

Dead Ringers is dead boring (altho not as bad as Crash, which is maybe the only truly terrible film of his I've seen)

Disagree with the former, agree w/the latter. Voted "Dead Ringers", with "Shivers" my favourite OG Cronenberg entry, altho it was called "They Came From Within" when I saw it. Haven't seen "The Brood" in like 25 years and can't really recall much at all, aside from the children of rage.

it was called "They Came From Within" when I saw it.

Aha, then I *have* seen Shivers!!! Drive-in theater again, I think 1978. When did it get retitled?

shivers was retitled at the whim of foreign distributors. also known as the parasite murders!

the fly is his crowd-pleaser, which is due to the most likable pair of leading actors in his filmography, real-life couple jeff goldblum + geena davis

I saw "Shivers" bcz it gets discussed in the awesome/crazy book Parasite Rex by Carl Zimmer.

i love that book!

i am a huge cronenberg stan, but i have no idea what all you people like about eXistenZ, i hate that fucking movie

crash is also a low point, everything else ive seen by him (yes that includes spider and naked lunch) has been great in one way or another

I was just wishing Jude Law wld go back to making goofy sci-fi flicks no one watches but then I remembered he's gonna be in steampunk Sherlock Holmes so I guess my wish came true.

xpost: So, eXistenZ is a PARODY of a bland Canadian production? That explains a lot.

I thought it was a parody of Zork

also just imagine how bad it would have been if Salman Rushdie had actually been involved

Leaning Naked Lunch, but really want to rewatch Dead Zone after many years, and I need to see Spider bcuz I love the book and how the fuck does he treat that?

Best Cronenberg film score: Crash. So genius.

great, long essay about "fecund horror" that talks a lot about shivers here:

http://gayutopia.blogspot.com/2007/12/noah-berlatsky-fecund-horror_12.html

i am a huge cronenberg stan, but i have no idea what all you people like about eXistenZ, i hate that fucking movie

^^^^this

The only one of his films I've disliked.

eXistenZ part 1 of 10
"this movie is rated PP (possible paranoia)
please don't watch this movie while alone & HIGH
...you'll get fucked up I"m not kidding
this massage will disappear automatically"

There was a great Cronenberg Retrospective here a few years ago, saw Stereo, Crimes of the Future, Shivers, Rabid and The Brood. Three or four Cronenberg films in a day can really fuck you up.

Out of the early stuff have to go for Shivers, like a film High Rise with parasites. Got a soft spot for Crash, and the Dead Zone, Videodrome and Scanners, which would otherwise be #1 pick. Hated eXistenZ, the only decent scene was in the restaurant, and a complete remake of Videodrome with a completely boring cast. Both a History of Violence and Eastern Promises were good, HOV probably a touch better.

the Fly is a thing of beauty imo.

Yup. Mine too, and I finally voted for it. But I hovered for a long moment over Naked Lunch, since that's pretty near-and-dear as well, plus I have the Criterion DVD of it. But the first 25-20 minutes of The Fly alone clench it for me. It's so tightly constructed, well-acted, fun, thought-provoking, and utterly utterly disgusting. A+

IMO, he's made three a+ movies, and they are: Videodrome, The Fly, and Naked Lunch. Not that the rest pale or anything. There are a couple solid "A"s as well.

^^pretty much agree with you there.

Voted eXistenZ, even tho it's a Videodrome retread, it's an awesome Videodrome retreatd.

Dead Ringers is dead boring

http://sinsear777.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/madness.jpg

The Dead Zone and Videodrome are difficult to call between, I love AHoV and Eastern Promises as well. With his last two it feels like he is fully in control of things again, both totally gripping imo - it doesn't hurt that Viggo is clearly a muse for him.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

has special resonance if you've grown up with the cancon bland production style it's riffin' on

Can you elaborate on this s1ocki? I've only heard of Cancon in relation to music. I'm intrigued.

watched scanners recently and it was a lot less good than i remembered from when i loved it as a kid

I'm usually inclined to defend Stephen King, but I tried to read The Dead Zone and gave up after a couple chapters: Like Jackie Brown, it's an adaptation that shows the strengths of its adapter--in this case, credible and poignant relationships amid horror (something King is ostensibly good at too). Plus: Christopher Walken.

The media-as-drugs and wounds-as-sex motifs in his other movies are memorable, and for all I know profound, but it was always the more compelling relationships and characters that got me. Which is why the James Woods-Deborah Harry chemistry seems second-tier--they look like two people trying on roles for size rather than being those people.

"his other movies" meaning Cronenberg's

watched scanners recently and it was a lot less good than i remembered from when i loved it as a kid

actually have had the opposite reaction, I like scanners a lot more now than when I saw it as a kid

it's definitely not a well-made film (at one point the sound even goes out of sync for a couple minutes!) but I can appreciate the ideas and their implications a lot better now

not sure I fully grasped the cathartic art/social outcasts/underground society angles when I was 10 or 12

watched videodrome twice in one night earlier this week. It's THAT good.

I could see myself doing that.

I love all of the gigantic 70s computer mainframes in scanners.

tried to watch spider the other night and was just not in the mood. got about 45mins in and was bored out of my mind. just couldn't bring myself to care about the fiennes character's childhood backstory.

may give it a go again sometime, tho.

tried to watch spider the other night and was just not in the mood.

Yeah, that's one I have to be in the right mood to watch. The pacing of it is incredibly different than his other films.

yep.

plus, I wasn't aware of that and was all ready to relax with a cronenberg flick after a tough day. despite the occasional grossness, I generally find his stuff very soothing to watch.

think it has something to do his somewhat relaxed pacing, minimal scores, plus a tendency to not overstay a film's welcome.

the grossness never feels gratuitous to me, unlike with a lot of other horror movies.

not usually... but I definitely do get the feeling that he has a lot of fun with it. especially in the fly.

The Fly is such a fun movie.

totally. I need to watch it again.

it really is a comedy.

This is way too hard to choose. It's like a Shivers, Scanners, Videodrome three-way.

you pull a gun out of your stomach, want to have sex with everyone in sight, and then your head explodes?

lol.

has anyone actually seen fast company?

from the wiki:
an all-action, non-horror, non-psychological B-movie

No! But now I want to!

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews18/a%20David%20Cronenberg%20The%20Fly%20DVD%20Review%20David%20Cronenberg%20The%20Fly%20DVD%20Review/b%20David%20Cronenberg%20The%20Fly%20DVD%20Review%20PDVD_006.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

will never understand the love for Dead Ringers. someone offer a defense of this terminally boring, one-trick movie

Nice to see that eight other people dug eXistenZ.

I love it! but its not his best

Rabid not getting a vote is a bit of surprise though.

not really, it's the weakest of the early films

existenz getting more votes than the fly and naked lunch is a headscratcher

xp I like it better than Shivers or the Brood myself, but I also headscratchingly voted for eXistenz.

Dead Ringers is really lovely to look at and rather moving, Shakey. It's slow, yeah.

BROOD WZ ROBBED! cool with whatever else getting no votes or few votes (fuck you, eastern promises!), but the brood deserves a lot more credit. classic film, touchstone for all other cronenbergs, creepy as fuck, awkward and wooden as fuck, AMAZING attention to period architecture, clothing and design, so goddam nice to look at.

and dead ringers is worth the love, though it is a bit slow, because jeremy irons is so fucking great in it - that's thing 1. And cuz it builds suspense and sympathy so carefully, so slowly that you almost don't notice, but finally pays off double. And cuz it puts the creep on like nobody's business. in the long run it's not my favorite cronenberg flick, maybe too "mature" for its own good, but i was very impressed at the time.

finally, i'm not too surprised by the high marks for eXistenZ. it's sorta videodrome-lite, but more comprehensible and arguably more fun. certainly less sleazy.

Yeah, Brood wuz robbed, but I'm glad enthusiasm over the History of Violence-period is waning.

Also there isn't really a problem w a movie being "one-trick" when the trick's that good. Elliot's realisation of Beverly's decline when they're giving the acceptance speech=awwwwwww.

Glad to see others who love eXistenZ as much as I do.

i am not

me neither. it's a cool little flick, but compared to cronenberg's best, it's awful slight. to clarify remarks above, "more comprehensible/less sleazy" is not a compliment.

Cronenberg sleazy is different from just plain sleazy.

To expand on that: plain sleazy is objectifying bodies for prurient purposes. Cronenberg sleazy is objectifying bodies for the purpose of demonstrating that they are all just disgusting sacks of water and goo.

BROOD WZ ROBBED!

almost voted for it, it's my perennial 2nd favorite

eXistenZ. it's sorta videodrome-lite, but more comprehensible and arguably more fun. certainly less sleazy.

i dunno - i think they're equally comprehensible, and the sleaziness made videodrome more fun, speaking as an adult. Existenz felt like Videodrome for teenagers.

I have been up nights wondering if the fact that this is one of my favorite directors means that I am a sick person who should be avoided by the healthy.

I'm trying to think if I know any Scorpios that dislike Cronenberg.

If there are, I'm sure they do so with almost unreasonable passion.

Going back to your question though, I don't think it makes you a sick person, but a healthy person that is interested in sickness and its manifestations.

One day, we all will be.

unless you have fantasies about actually living videodrome, then i'd say you probably have some sort of problem.

No. I suppose my (relatively mild, tbh) preoccupation with the fragility of the body is expressed mainly through Cronenberg fandom and empathy with the sick and the old. I'm not even a hypochondriac, which is surprising even to me.

The reason I'm so fond of Cronenberg - the earlier stuff - History of Violence/Eastern Promises I like for other reasons - is the way he takes ideas about humanity and society and presents them through bodily horror, as physical manifestations.

The Fly is a great example of that, actually. It's a romance, and, to quote Cronenberg himself, is about "the way one person in a relationship always turns into a monster."

yes, it's a romantic comedy - maybe my favorite romantic comedy.

It's also a romantic tragedy.

yes - it is both. Actually it's tied with Cemetery Man for my favorite romantic comedy/tragedy.

I find it very moving, no joke. (Also VERY gross.)

It's about relationships, yes, but it's also fairly obviously about growing older, and the horror at your own body that is somewhat inevitable. It's enormously noble that the movie ends with euthanasia.

see i read it as being about mediated experience, and the way that television mirrors the body, and the issue of achieving intense "authentic" experience in a mediated environment, where your own physicality often feels inferior and less authentic to that you watch on television. I didn't see it as being about aging at all.

We're talking about The Fly, right?

Oh, doesn't matter. All his movies are about all of these things, to one degree or another, I suppose.

Oh - I was talking about videodrome - the fly, yes. Okay that makes sense.

There is certainly an element of mediated/compromised reality in The Fly as well, though that connection to Videodrome hadn't occurred to me before.

which?

The element of reality being compromised and actually changed by being filtered through technology.

eg, the steak tasted "fake".

as something that connects the fly to videodrome, or just in relation to videodrome?

Have you been drinking? :)

Not tonight.

Wow yr smooth Kenan

Not sure who you are, but I don't like you at all.

yes - it is both. Actually it's tied with Cemetery Man for my favorite romantic comedy/tragedy.

― sarahel, Wednesday, December 9, 2009 10:22 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark

gah what the shit. no one else is allowed to have these thoughts. two of my favorite movies ever ever ever (plus much more evers).

and to clarify even more, i am not down with the de-sleezing of videodrome in eXistenZ. which IS vdrome for teenagers, but that's alright.

sarahel, u mentioned that cronenberg's body horror literalizes ideas about society/humanity. which is true, but i think almost all of his films do this, in various ways. they literalize the mutability of human identity. even flicks like spider and history of violence do it (the former about the way madness distorts perception, the latter about the way films do).

interesting to look at the idea of "programming" in all of his films - the ways in which we're programmed by biology, by the ideas we encounter, by society. most literal in videodrome, by present everywhere.

well yeah - eastern promises and the tattooing (and some of the other aspects of the russian mafia's practices) are an example of how he doesn't completely diverge from the earlier work.

was never really able to get much cronenberg-ness out of EP. only saw it once though, so i dunno. seemed much more compromised than his other adaptations. (weird pun there.) tattooing, sure, but what does that have to do with the film's other themes? not asking, really, just wondering aloud. probably oughtta see it again.

rabid should've at least gotten a vote, come on.

Existenz felt like Videodrome for teenagers.

Totally agree.

interesting to look at the idea of "programming" in all of his films - the ways in which we're programmed by biology, by the ideas we encounter, by society.

totally--this is what interests me most about his films.

Existenz felt like Videodrome for teenagers.
Totally agree.

― real bears playing hockey (polyphonic)

cosign, will be using that sentence at parties, if you don't mind.

I'd be honored!

Thank you for not exercising brutal US copyright law on me. ;)

My name's Andrew Kenan

you killed my father, prepare to die

Interesting results, I had no idea there was so much love for Dead Ringers. Not enough Walken vase pulverising for my taste...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLhFIwkbtJI

yeah I guess Dead Ringers is a major movie of his, but I can't love it. I don't mind creepy, but messy is messy.

Existenz felt like Videodrome for teenagers.

also gotta agree.

and it kind of feels like watching a 90s videodrome, imo. probably inevitable but I prefer 80s videodome thank you very much.

and it kind of feels like watching a 90s videodrome, imo. probably inevitable but I prefer 80s videodome thank you very much.

Same here - not sure how much of that preference is due to age (i.e. being past my teens when Existenz came out).

I actually saw both in my late teens/early 20s but did see videodrome first. videodrome left me baffled after my first watch (in a good way) and existenz just left me nonplussed.

I'll admit that 80s movies have more nostalgic pull tho. (whether I've already seen them or not. in general, the lighting, film, and soundtracks feel very different from any other decade.)

agreed on the singularness of the 80s aesthetic - I saw Videodrome a few years before Existenz came out - I think I was 23 when I saw it - it was in the theater.

first time I saw videodrome came right at the end of a shut-in stint that had gone on a few days. a friend picked my up right after and I was all like, "man, I just watched the weirdest movie. james woods had a vagina in his stomach!!"

I took a screenshot of the Videodrome titles last night to find out what font it is, and was crestfallen to discover that the font comes standard on a Mac.

Glad to see others who love eXistenZ as much as I do.

Absolutely. And third is about the right placing for it imo. Though I would have Dead Ringers and The Fly swap places, and bump Crash up the list a bit, but otherwise all's well.

thought the fly would place 2nd for sure. that was pretty surprising.

existenz placing higher than the fly = why i love ILX.

Saw 'Maps to the Stars' for second time last night - much better on big screen. I wish it had a wider distro. Dark, meta incest comedy with great gags.