THE AMERICAN SOUTH

hey y'all,

just curious if there any others originally from, living in, or familiar with the american south.

i live in mississippi, and i was born here.

i'm sure there are plenty of scathing opinions, but maybe some folks have had good times here?

race relations obviously are a bit fucked, but i think that's getting a lot better. in some cases, the terrifying aspects of our past can lead folks to be more conscious about stereotypes and genuinely work to bridge gaps. in other cases, prejudice is still intense. (of course, i've seen that all over the world, not just the south.)

on the positive side, i do think southern hospitality is a real thing. and literature, music, and food here is terrific.

thoughts, anyone?

I don't hate the South! i don't i don't i don't

http://southside.k12.ar.us/sms/uploads/images/Library/southern%20hospitality%20(3).jpg

http://www.oxygenee.com/images/Southern-Hospitality-54KB.jpg

http://pic.aebn.net/Stream/Movie/Boxcovers/a79469_xlf.jpg

i am from the north and i think the south is interesting. not just as a curiosity, like i would consider living there. southerners are not the only racists in america!

I know when I think of the south, the first think that comes to mind is SPORTSMANSHIP.

http://www.mindspring.com/~dmerriman/DilrdF1.JPG

oh yeah i don't think i could handle southern food though :(

http://www.ryeflorida.org/images/2006-07/Inbounds/frederik/SouthernFoodIsDelicious.jpg

Mobile, Alabama holla

http://www.aminglingoftastes.com/uploaded_images/IMG_5270-764039.JPG

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/380124814_01836ae725_b.jpg

i keep being told that i don't count but fuck yall i'm from texas

http://gothamist.com/attachments/goth_hugh/2008_11_m&g_diner.jpg

I love that dude eating his okra.

As a non South(east)erner, okra's something I have never understood.

you might not to try it in gumbo first, then move onto fried.

need to try it*

my grandma was from the south and I am the first member of my family to live in the south since she left it circa 1912 and I am never leaving because it is awesome and the people who hate on it don't really know but that's all right because if they came and hung out they would feel the love and they are always welcome and sure there's some parts that are weird but where is that not true of, I have been weirded out way harder in the rust belt than I've ever felt down here so in conclusion hell yes, the south, I know where you people who look at those red state blue state maps are coming from but there's more to it than that.

been to mississippi twice I think and had a good time both times.

louisiana and tennessee and missouri contain some of my favorite places on earth

my boyz made Tim Tebow CRY

http://www.ameliaclark.com/trans-down_south.jpg

Here is how I make okra. It is not slimy at all:

Get some fresh okra.
Cut off the stem ends, because they are too fibrous.
Cut the rest of the okra into about 1/2 pieces, give or take.
Heat a T or two of olive oil in a pan.
Add the okra. Sprinkle liberally with salt.
Cook until the okra gets nice and browned.

http://www.bouncinballoons.com/Belles_Main/Southern_Belles.jpg

if you make okra with a madhur jaffrey recipe it will change your life

that's a different south tho

http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/gahistmarkers/trailoftearshistmarker.jpg

I was born in Columbus, MS!

http://verlee.tripod.com/SheltonLaurel.jpg

http://www.ncmarkers.com/Images/markers_600/P-71a.jpg

akaky, I'm not far from you -- I live in Amory. Used to live in Oxford. Have a love-hate (mostly hate) relationship with the south.

xpost -- I didn't know that, Alfred! Columbus is about 25 miles from me.

J0hn, I love southern fried okra and bindi bhaji equally.

I have this fantasy about moving to Kentucky someday...my grandpa was from there, I guess he's from the original McCrackens that settled McCracken County. That's the kind of a story that makes me feel like I'd belong in a place. I'm applying to grad school at Univ. of Kentucky. We'll see if I get in.

I like boiled okra.

I can only buy frozen okra here.

http://news.ncdcr.gov/news/wp-content/uploads/eugenics-board-marker.jpg

http://tsanda.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/nfsquir.jpg

http://dobetter.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/snickerdoodle-stack-sm.jpg

good timing on the thread, we're considering a move back southward. this can either remind me of all the reasons to do it or all the reasons not to. (i'm already imagining the first time my kids come home from school crying cuz some jackass classmate told them they're going to hell...)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Pecan_pie_slice.jpg/800px-Pecan_pie_slice.jpg

I don't think that'll happen, tipsy -- all the really rabid xtians are homeschooled or go to private xtian "academies" now.

Reasons to do it: super cheap cost of living. Fairly mild winters.

Reasons not to do it: not a hell of a lot of culture outside college towns and the largest cities. Hellish humid summers - grow gills or die.

man I love the humidity, I was born to breathe that stuff

gotta say scott's signs make me think "hey, in the south we have signs on every streetcorner admitting to some bullshit that went down here, as against the whitewashing of junipero serra & the missionaries that you see in CA where I grew up"

Oh man humidity brings out my inner pizza face hardcore...can my vanity overcome this???

most of my thoughts about humidity belong on the ILTMI board tbh

It also makes me extra sweaty...I basically turn into a gross cartoon character around the stuff.

I don't think that'll happen, tipsy

oh it'll happen, believe me. i mean, it could happen anywhere, but in the bible belt it's pretty much a sure thing. first six months i lived in tennessee i had to figure out what to say when people asked if i'd selected a church yet. when i'm away from it i tend to minimize in my mind how pervasive and aggressive the mainstream culture is (i'm talking specifically southern appalachia here, there are regional variations i know). so it's always a bit of a shock when i go back to visit. otoh, i have lots of friends there and none of them are like that at all. i know from my past experience that you just form your own social networks, like anywhere. the most religious/conservative most of my southern friends get is episcopal npr listeners.

anyway i always sort of enjoyed it myself, the sense of being an embattled liberal minority. the kids give me a little pause, but what the hell. it would probably be good for them. (be good for their southern cousins, too, to know some actual godless liberals...)

I wouldn't mind the sweating so much if my eyesight was better, but within a few minutes of getting out into the garden, every blink is splashing sweat onto the inside of my glasses. I need some lasik.

first six months i lived in tennessee i had to figure out what to say when people asked if i'd selected a church yet.

I've had pastors come to the door to invite us to their church, but I've never been asked that outside that situation.

Born in Huntsville, AL, lived there until I was 24. I live in FL now, which I actually consider a step down. Lived in Nashville, TN for a few years and it was nice enough. People from all the other states in the south love Mississippi because it gives them a chance to feel superior.

100% agree about the hellish humidity. That's the only thing I could see forcing me to live somewhere besides the south. (Not that I wouldn't relocate by choice, but the humidity might run me out by force someday.)

I'd miss the food. And the iced sweet tea. And the vibe in the air during college football season.

tipsy, where in the south are you thinking of moving?

i think you're right, it'll happen. it certainly happened to me when i went to school there. in my public speaking class in college i got pamphleted during my speeches on john waters and legalization of marijuana. in college!

sorta related: my nephew went to high school in NC. during a mock presidential debate he was assigned the part of obama. when asked by the moderator (the teacher) why people should vote for him, he said something about palin inexperienced. the teacher (moderator) stopped him and chewed him out, arguing on the mccain/palin side.

not that i don't love the south and have something like southern pride (i'm not from there, but i lived there for a long time).

http://www.egglestontrust.com/

where in the south are you thinking of moving?

back to knoxville. i lived there for a lot of the '90s, left in '02. my wife's from there and she has a lot of family and we both have a lot of friends. it's a great town, nicely close to the mountains, and we've both always planned to go back eventually. but in contemplating it, i have to remind myself of some of the cultural trade-offs.

People from all the other states in the south love Mississippi because it gives them a chance to feel superior.

hahaha, between the delta bluesmen and the literary tradition, I feel like Mississippi has plenty of reasons to feel superior over its neighbors.

"my grandma was from the south and I am the first member of my family to live in the south since she left it circa 1912 and I am never leaving because it is awesome and the people who hate on it don't really know but that's all right because if they came and hung out they would feel the love and they are always welcome and sure there's some parts that are weird but where is that not true of, I have been weirded out way harder in the rust belt than I've ever felt down here so in conclusion hell yes, the south, I know where you people who look at those red state blue state maps are coming from but there's more to it than that."

yessssss

I mostly dislike the south.

Mississippi has plenty of reasons to feel superior over its neighbors

This is true in the sense you described, but MS has plenty of things working against it in the modern day.

sure, no arguments there

georgia born & raised, possibly never leaving

People from all the other states in the south love Mississippi because it gives them a chance to feel superior.

I worked with a guy from Kentucky who got mad when I told him how "-tucky" gets appended to a couple of places in Michigan to illustrate their redneckness and suggested "-sissippi" as a more accurate substitute.

I've been to Texas and on a road trip from Michigan to Florida on I-75 but that's all I know about the south. It fascinates me though and I'd love to explore a lot of it someday. Next spring I'm probably doing a Memphis-Nashville-Louisville trip for a week and I'm pretty excited about that.

^ HE suggested "-sissippi"

I worked with a guy from Kentucky who got mad when I told him how "-tucky" gets appended to a couple of places in Michigan to illustrate their redneckness and suggested "-sissippi" as a more accurate substitute.

Some people call the Chicago suburb of Naperville "Napertucky" sometimes. Which doesn't make sense to me b/c it's a pretty hoity-toity 'burb.

dumplins were my favourite southern food, and yes southern hospitality absolutely exists. also girls are more friendly.

"i keep being told that i don't count but fuck yall i'm from Texas"

ha - me too but I've travelled a bit through The South and you cannot fuck with sweettea and fried okra. It's just not possible.

i've lived in five different cities in Texas (and in no other state), and i can say that the only Texas city that doesn't count is Austin

Vancouver, WA is referred to universally by Portlanders as Vantucky

xp

Yeah Austin is an the square peg - I'm from Houston originally and def rubs shoulders with Louisiana and Southern culture a bit

is an the square peg

Vancouver, WA is referred to universally by Portlanders as Vantucky

I hear Spokantucky quite a bit too.

hey y'all

I lived in Greenville, MS for two years. nothing but love for the rural South.

I've had pastors come to the door to invite us to their church, but I've never been asked that outside that situation.

that's nuts! i feel like when you meet people in my hometown one of the first things people ask is what church you go to!

http://gothamist.com/attachments/goth_hugh/2008_11_m&g_diner.jpg

this is harlem's southernmost enclave

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2421/3583633897_d66d611116.jpg

re: church/religion

When I moved back I got asked the 'what church are you going to' question a lot, surprisingly a lot from peers and friends and friends. I went to the DMV to get a new license plate and the woman gave me a choice between the Stars Fell on Alabama one or the God Bless America post 9/11 special. I chose the former, and she frowned at me and said, 'well, if I were you, I would choose the other one...'. The joys of being an embattled liberal minority were taken away pretty quickly when I realized that there was basically no point in bringing anything like religion or politics ups with a lot of the people, and so I had to work for a little while on censoring myself when I had been accustomed to saying whatever I wanted around new people/in public places knowing that nobody would be too bothered.

in my experience "southern hospitality" is not particularly sincere. people in the midwest seem more genuinely friendly but i probably haven't lived here long enough to get my regional b.s.-detector goggles yet

Ha – isn't the whole point of being a member of the embattled liberal minority that you have to fight some battles against people who disagree with you?

xpost

i found one way is to just preface things sort of half-apologetically with, "well, of course, i'm a liberal, so..."

because that way you're taking away their big weapon -- they're just waiting to call you a "liberal" -- and by saying "liberal" without the customary sneer, you can make it sound like maybe possibly not the worst thing in the world. and it's also a way of acknowledging, in their mind, that you're basically insane, so it somewhat takes the sting out of anything you say after that.

Half of my family is from the south (Appalachian hillbillies), and I lived in Atlanta and NC for about five years. The thing about living in the south that irked me the most, aside from the miserable weather, dearth of public transportation, and everything being closed on Sundays, was everybody's presumption that I was a Christian, necessitating many awkward conversations with coworkers and neighbors about how I am not actually doing anything to celebrate Easter/do actually sleep in pretty late on Sundays. In the north, the presumption is non-religious or quietly religious in a tasteful, personal way until and unless somebody says otherwise.

Anyway, treacherous Yankee bitch that I am, I hauled my NC born and raised husband out of the US south five years ago to come to Chicago and I'm never going back. Well, we are going back on Friday but just to visit for the holidays.

My mom's side of the family is from West Virginia, having settled there when it was still just Buckhannon County and Upshur County, Virginia. WV, of course, seceded to stay with the Union and so is ostensibly "North," but most of WV is culturally more what we think of as "South" than much of Virginia, which is completely below the Mason-Dixon line.

That said, I haven't been back there in a number of years, but I always loved it. Growing up, we'd frequently go to visit my great-grandparents and great-aunts and -uncles, staying in my great-grandmother's big farmhouse in Shinnston, having great big southern meals at the table, sitting out on the porch at night, running around the yard catching lightning bugs in jars . . . it all sounds so cliched and bullshit, but I really did love it!

I spent 90 percent of my young life in Batesville (No. MS) and Vicksburg, lived the last 10 years in Memphis (which is basically MS). Most days I could take or leave it. I think everything has been covered - yay food, culture, most people, boo born-again dicks, racist ignoramuses, Widespread Panic (lol). I might get more detailed later when I'm not typing on a blackberry.

My dad's family is from a little town in Pulaski County, VA, and we'd road trip down there through the mountains to stay at the big house, explore the fields, wake up to find cows on the back porch, camp out in the apple orchard. It was pretty sweet. xp

i think i would like the south

i was gonna start/search for a thread on southern accents, but this will do:

guys plz explain how many distinct accents there are in the south

I'll go get Amanda for that one.

I've lived in Athens, GA for 30 years and don't seem to be going anywhere.

Many of the cultural differences in the South are probably best understood in terms of persistent poverty.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/rurality/typology/maps/mperpov.gif

you rang? i have to go grade some papers, but a quick googling yields this (go to p 2 for different dialect varieties)
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Southern_American_English

one of my favorite features of SAE is monophthongization --
/taym/ --> /tam/

i've only been to virginia and north carolina but i thought there were rad aspects to both.

the best thing about southern cities is when you drive out past all the mcdonalds and sonics (advertising 99-cent sweet teas on the marquee) and into the deep suburbs where you get into these "picturesque" new gated subdivisions with super spacious lots and immaculate landscaping and these extra-wide, meandering driveways leading up to these enormous mcmansions... and everyone's still parking in the front yard. you can take the southerner out of the country and into the country-style city but his yard is gonna find a way to yell that rebel yell.

also: horse apples aka monkey puzzles, love those things

alright hold up just learned that horse apples and monkey puzzles are two different things, not sure how i was confusing them. horse apples are what i love NOT MONKEY PUZZLES

horse apples=horseshit?

as fond as i am of the shit of a horse, i was referrin to these lil dudes

http://canal.mcmullans.org/images/Oasge%20Orange.jpg

they are the size of a grapefruit and they're all over the ground in the fall, at least they were where i was in the ozarks

oh yeah we have those in DC, they are crazy. they're called Osage Oranges here, just like the photo says

Dude, those are monkey balls.

squirrels feast upon them ritually, at least they did where i was in the ozarks

xp ok monkey balls! see i was thinking of that but got my balls confused with my puzzles

terrible thing to confuse, balls and puzzles!

rotting horse apples in the woods is a terrible terrible smell

We have those here, too. My dog loved to chase them.

Raised in Memphis, live in Missouri.
Does Memphis feel a lot more like Mississippi than Tennessee to anyone else?
The humidity down there kills me, but everything else I am cool with.
Especially the radio stations.

I was born in Columbus, MS!

― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 03:23 (12 hours ago)

as was i! at columbus air force base, specifically. i cost $4, my dad likes to joke.

my southern living tour:

columbus, miss-born, lived as baby
starkville, miss-lived a few times over early years
fort worth, texas-texas arguably not "the south"
cape coral, fla.-again, despite being the most southerly place i've lived, arguably not "the south"
noxapater, miss.-woah at this place
jackson, miss., and its various metro-area neighbors (ridgeland, byram, brandon)
magnolia, ark.
stamps, ark.
fayetteville, ark.
conway, ark.
little rock, ark.
north little rock, ark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English

* When speaking about a group, y'all is general (I know y'all) —as in that group of people is familiar to you and you know them as a whole, whereas all y'all is much more specific and means you know each and every person in that group, not as a whole, but individually ("I know all y'all.") Y'all can also be used with the standard "-s" possessive.

"I've got y'all's assignments here." pronounced /jɔlz/

* Y'all is distinctly separate from the singular you. The statement, "I gave y'all my payment last week," is more precise than "I gave you my payment last week." You (if interpreted as singular) could imply the payment was given directly to the person being spoken to – when that may not be the case.
* Some people misinterpret the phrase "all y'all" as meaning that Southerners use the word y'all as singular and all y'all as plural. However, all y'all is used to specify that all of the members of the second person plural are included (i.e., it functions similarly to "all of you" in standard English), that is "all y'all" as opposed to "some of y'all"

You_all_and_Y'all.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/You_all_and_Y%27all.jpg

y'all ain't no better 'n us

we buy our Skechers at Shoe Carnival just like everbody else

my dad thinks i live in the south, i just remembered. so maybe i do.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usstates/lgcolor/masondixon.gif

maybe we need a thread where we discuss what states are appropriate to include in this particular region

i don't feel like the mason-dixon line is relevant anymore

interesting

should be more like the 38th parallel or something

well fwiw i would def lump someone from West Virginia in the Southerner category, just for being a yokel with a funny accent. but i guess you all would say they're a yankee???

i would say maryland is right on the edge for me, i'd probably put it mid atlantic. but virginia and west virginia are totally southern

Does Memphis feel a lot more like Mississippi than Tennessee to anyone else?

i only spent one weekend in memphis, but it definitely didn't feel like eastern or middle tennessee (the parts of the state i know). seemed to me to have more in common with other mississippi river cities than with the rest of the state. like, there's an obvious cultural continuum from, say, st. louis to memphis to new orleans, much more than from knoxville to nashville to memphis.

the atlantic seaboard fucks with things, imo. like i ~know~ that NC/SC are obv v southern states, but my stereotypes get all mixed up when i think about midatlantic yuppies playin lacrosse and going yachting or w/e,

As a Mid-Atlantican, we consider Maryland to be part of our region. Parts of Virgina, too.

Del-mar-va!

Born in SC and lived in NC, but spent most of my life in suburban Atlanta and Athens, GA. Nearly cried when I recently found these at the Giant by my place in DC:

http://www.peanutsandpork.com/shoponline/images/boiled-green-peanuts.jpg

lived in durham, nc for five years

it's a good place, but my friends that are still there all live in mcmansions along I-40 now, which is sadface.

don't like the hot weather, though. and i don't like tea, so i never really understood the whole sweet/unsweet thing, which made me kind of a foreigner.

Lived in Georgia until 15, when I moved to Florida — still there.

My experience of the South can be summed up in the fact that I'm moving to Chicago in January.

I always miss Tennessee in the fall.

can be summed up in the fact that I'm moving to Chicago in January.

Look us up on the Chicago thread!

Which one? :B

Chicago: Cold Enough To Snow

This is one of my favorite things in the whole state of Alabama (on I-65 N between Montgomery and Birmingham).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3532/3944963092_05ce79d5bc.jpg

Amazing!

once tried to count the 'see ruby falls' signs between atlanta and chattanooga

there are a lot

There's one in my county that says AN ETERNITY IN HELL IS A LONG TIME

so I know you all have moved beyond this but okra is fucking vile, no exceptions

both of my grandmothers were from Alabama and neither of them could prepare it such that it was edible; neither have I ever had any dish containing identifiable pieces of okra that tasted good

it is one of those things, like fried green tomatoes, that I will never, ever, ever eat and is likely to make me ill if I do eat it out of politeness

so congrats on getting to share my lifetime allotment of okra because I am not touching that fucking nasty shit, gross

When we last lived in NC, these billboards were all the rage along the I-40 corridor: http://www.godspeaks.com/aboutGodSpeaks.asp?Campaign=1

Those God Speaks billboards were all over Florida at one point too.

I like that god speaks in Cooper Black.

so congrats on getting to share my lifetime allotment of okra because I am not touching that fucking nasty shit, gross

Thank you! I'll definitely eat my share.

Fried okra as a side with fried chicken and mashed potatoes is one of the greatest creations ever to befall me.

it's like they had to add one completely wretched component to the meal in order to balance the awesomeness on the plate so that your head wouldn't explode

I don't want to disparage your Alabama grandmothers, but maybe they never learned how to cook it correctly. Raw okra is nasty, and there's really only one way to make it not nasty.

I would definitely concede that point had I EVER had it cooked in a manner that made it taste good and, more importantly, had I not thrown up later 90% of the time after eating it.

i love fried green tomatoes! but not done in pork fat please

in my experience "southern hospitality" is not particularly sincere. people in the midwest seem more genuinely friendly but i probably haven't lived here long enough to get my regional b.s.-detector goggles yet

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:35 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Agreed. And too often people tried to avoid confrontation, so they would be fake nice to you and then talk shit later. I think on another thread someone mentioned that "Bless your heart" can mean basically, "Fuck you."

Though YMMV depending on what part of the South you're in; I found it super, super easy to meet people in New Orleans compared to North Carolina.

"Bless your heart" can mean basically, "Fuck you."

This is two tons of truth.

haha what do you mean, "can mean"? I thought that was basically what it meant, no ambiguity!

Reminded in an off-board conversation about another southern food favorite: rhubarb.

Rhubarb is one of the worst flavors nature ever introduced! NAS-TAY

but rhubarb pie is fucking amazing

No. It's like The Blob vomited in a pie shell and someone baked it up.

esp. strawberry-rhubarb pie

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

johnny fever u crazee

u no understand pie

now I'm waiting for you to talk about how awesome fried green tomato and okra pie is

("you" = Johnny Fever, of course)

I never hopped on the fried green tomato bandwagon. That shit's gross too.

I just love fried okra, specifically beer batter fried okra.

Well, if you're at a funeral and sobbing and someone says "Bless your heart" they probably don't mean "Fuck you." Though that would be interesting to think about....

xps, obv.

they're probably thinking "you're blocking the buffet, Sobby!" but it's not polite to say that

but rhubarb pie is fucking amazing

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes

never loved boiled okra. too slimey. fried is ok. but pickled okra is the way to go.

deep thoughts from kshighway?

I never hopped on the fried green tomato bandwagon. That shit's gross too.

Pistols at dawn, Sir. I will have satisfaction.

how about instead I give you my nasty-ass fried green tomatoes

Throw in some hot pepper jelly with that and I might aim for your kneecap.

see, fried green tomatoes aren't even satisfying enough to keep you from shooting someone

they are worthless

Has anyone talked about fried dill pickles? Just in case no one has: fried dill pickles! They're wonderful.

I can eat w/one hand and shoot w/the other. But I will not see the honor of fried green tomatoes trod upon.

xp also yes fried dill pickles are amazing

Never eaten fried dills, but it sounds good. Will try.

Also, yes. BOILED OKRA DEFAMES THE TRUE BEAUTY OF OKRA.

I think this thread has reached the do you ever feel like some people are fronting with this whole OMG I LOVE OKRA/GREENTOMATOES/RHUBARB shit nowadays point.

Even if nobody's fronting.

lol

I'm just really craving some fried okra today because it's been too long since I've had any (at least a year or so).

grits

mmmm...

I would eat all this grits!

i bet dan would give us his lifetime grits allotment too!

fuck that noise, I am keeping the grits

(keeping the collards too so DON'T EVEN ASK)

Oh, now see collards are some nasty-ass shit. But mustard greens with black eyed peas are good.

Boiled greens of just about any variety are some nasty-ass shit. I'll eat a mountain of black eyed peas, though.

you guys really don't know how to do food

all greens are god's children

^^^

sautee mustard greens with garlic fyi

like i can barely tell the difference between collards, kale, lettuce, spinach, chard

See, here's one thing about grits and greens and okra and all that good stuff -- it's getting hard to find! Or at least getting to find really well-made versions of it. Fast food franchises have pushed little diners with homemade southern cooking out of business. There are a couple of places here in Amory (pop. 6500) where you can get fried okra, but they buy it pre-breaded in a 6# bag from Sam's Club.

There was a place in Oxford (Abbeville actually) in the 90s where the fried okra was pretty famous and you had to get there early for lunch etc etc etc.

There aren't any local mills, so I have to stock up on good grits when I'm in Atlanta.

At least fried catfish and decent hushpuppies are still easy to find.

If you can't tell the diff. between kale and spinach best you stay out of the greens section.

re: greens, mustard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turnip/collard

We have a really good recipe for kale with like this citrus-garlic dressing. Haven't had it in a while. Maybe I should stop at the store tonight.

If you can't tell the diff. between kale and spinach best you stay out of the greens section.

i mean when i eat it--the tastes are not noticeably different

I have never liked Grits. In high school I was called a "fuckin' yankee" and threatened with physical violence for saying so.

one thing i love about little rock/north little rock is the abundance of excellent soul food/country cookin' places still hanging on

i mean when i eat it--the tastes are not noticeably different

uh, YES THEY ARE

McDonalds and KFC have killed country cooking in this part of the country. ;_; We've all got a big case of diabesity.

xpost THEY REALLY ARE

huh, really? i can't tell like a HUGE difference between say spinach and kale and lettuce. collards, maybe? i dunno, if you like one you should like them all

might i recommend

http://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Soul-Kitchen-Creative-African-American/dp/0738212288

^^ bought this, recipes are the bidness

how the hell can you not tell the difference between lettuce and spinach

i need to try the black eyed pea fritters something fierce

yeah, your tongue has a suggest bland for not differentiating b/w basic ass lettuce and spinach

i do not claim to have a sophisticated palate--really what i am saying here is that they don't taste all that different and if u like one u should like them all

im with you on greens living 2gether in ~*~harmony~*~

I went to middle and high school in B'ham, AL, and my folks decided to move back there after decades traipsing around the country.

I also put in some time in NC and TX, but for me, B'ham defines "south."

While I liked certain things about all of those southern places (particularly food traditions), I must admit I feel more at home in the mid-atlantic/New England. I get a little creeped when I'm back visiting the parents in 'bama.

It never occurred to me to consider Missouri "south" wtf?

really what i am saying here is that they don't taste all that different and if u like one u should like them all

I am not going to fight you on the second part, I am just baffled by "lettuce tastes like spinach"

i never said lettuce tastes like spinach

Pickled okra is amazing. Greens are amazing. I make delicious, delicious collard greens. I would make a mess of greens for you all.

a mess is the only real proper quantity for eating greens imo

Collards are The greens. They are nice and chewy.

Also while we're talking about Southern culinary wonders: Eastern NC BBQ. a;sdlkf

DC's set as far as soul food goes but the one thing i miss the most is some bruswick stew. cannot find that shit anywhere around here. in fact, it's really tough to find anywhere outside of GA.

I lived in the foothills of NC and that area was swimming in Brunswick stew. I don't think I ever had it tho. A lot of churches had benefits based on Brunswick stew.

Not personally a fan, but:

chicken mull

i like okra, collards, black-eyed peas. i wish those foods would show up more often on menus everywhere

my impression of the south is that people are genuinely friendly and laid-back in an endearing way. i appreciate the lack of northeastern-style gruffness and the slowed up pace especially during the molasses summers

the bayou is unreal!

florida kind of creeps me out, but maybe that's just me

my mom made brunswick stew and she was from buffalo!

always figured it was a thing she knew from childhood but maybe it was the south rubbing off on her!

a mess is the only real proper quantity for eating greens imo

my measure is the "sink-full" but I think they're close to equivalent

born and raised in Georgia, currently living in Boston. I like it up here, but it's far more segregated than any Southern city I've ever been to. only things I don't miss about the South are the heat and the traffic.

and oh, Florida's not really Southern.

the panhandle's not southern? tallahassee?

you guys really don't know how to do food

you mean like minnesota?

TS: cajun accent vs. okie accent

-really what i am saying here is that they don't taste all that different and if u like one u should like them all

Kale and collard/mustard greens are both noticeably more bitter than spinach and chard, although that often goes away when they're cooked.

Kale, collards, broccoli rabe and other bitter greens need to be boiled - not sauteed or steamed. That removes a lot of the bitterness.

yah i was talking about boiled

Bitter greens v. tender greens is what it comes down to. Bitter greens are my fave, but I can do some tasty things with tender greens.

you mean like minnesota?

I did not say that hot dish land could get everything correct, just that living in an area with food scientifically proven to be awesome and then focusing on all of the parts of that regional cuisine that suck taint is perplexing.

sauteed mustard greens are fantastic. the only way my mustard greens get near water is in soup (with mushroom and white beans)

This is the area of the US I'm most interested in visiting, having seen NYC and a bit of the West Coast. Bet there is much fun and interest to be had. Don't know how well a Liberal English atheist would go down, though.

I recently drove the Natchez Trace from Nashville to New Orleans. Took my time and camped 2 nights. It's a good way to see the South if you've never been.

That's a beautiful stretch of road if you've got the time to take it slow and easy.

I know where you people who look at those red state blue state maps are coming from but there's more to it than that

yeahhhh despite whatever great culture the south has, this isn't like some tiny detail that can be overlooked (for me at least.) politics is basically the only thing from the south that affects my daily life.

10% of white people in alabama voted for obama, 11% in mississippi. if they south didn't exist politically, america would be a better place...so yeah, I don't particularly care how good fried chicken and okra are.

i think what you mean to say is if the christian church didn't exist politically america would be a better place

if neither existed we'd have some other bad thing without which america would be a better place

The universe abhors a vacuum after all.

without the south america would be more like britain, but poorer, and it would suck

huh

have you ever been to britain?

have you ever even tried fried chicken?

ya it's sorta overrated

wait isn't the south the part of america that is the MOST like Britain? in that all of our colorful southern accents are just scots/irish/poor-brit derivatives anyway? plus fried food and higher population density than, say, the west?

was gonna say

Some accents in western NC still sound really Scottish, even.

Take Jenny's recipe for okra above, only toss the cut okra into a bowl of corn meal generously seasoned w/black pepper. The corn meal will stick to the okra. Ideally you use bacon fat to fry it in. Really, really good stuff.

There are probably a lot more examples of that, but the Scottish/western NC is one I know about for sure. Plus in eastern NC people still say "hain't," like a lot.

also, based on britishers i know, the hospitality of the south (even if you think it's forced or w/e) is a lot more familiar than the taciturn politeness of the midwest

my mom had some old friends visit and they did a tour of the south and the brits fucking LOVED it and wouldn't shut up about how engaging everyone was. whereas here if you ask the person standing next to you at the checkout some kind of friendly question, they are baffled that you have intruded so deeply into their universe

However the Midwestern 'deny thrice the food, then gorge' tradition is definitely alive and well in Britishesland.

think this says more about the upper midwest than the south, tbh

xp

not really

all i'm saying is that if you hived off america at the mississippi and sent the rust belt with it, leaving new england and the south, you'd have something that was waaay more like britain than you would if you carved off the south and left everything else

(Just as an aside btw as a native I can say that 'midwestern kindness' is pretty much 100% myth. That smile that outsiders often mistake as kindness is actually SEVERE JUDGMENT.)

I find Midwesterners as friendly as anybody else (having lived, to date, on the east coast, the west coast, the mountain west, and the south), but this is maybe because I grew up in rural, xenophobic country such that my own mother denies that I can claim to be from the state where I lived the majority of my life and where the vast majority of my family lives because I was not actually born there.

But also, my experience with the Midwest is mostly Chicago, with forays into neighboring states short enough that I can pretend not to notice any "FIPS GO HOME" type sentiments.

oh they totally are.

i really just didn't understand harbl's 'no south = britain' thing, since it seems close to the opposite

enh, midwestern ~kindness~ is still a thing, i think, but if you are expecting midwestern gregariousness on a par with what you might encounter in the south (in my limited experience) or in england (in my less limited experience), then you will be disappointed

in my experience southerners are way more open and surface-polite than midwesterners

more like midwestern repressedness

I think I can summarize all of our opinions thusly: wherever you are, outwardly nice people secretly hate you and Midwesterners openly dislike you and secretly want to kill you, probably for warmth.

warmth AND sustenance

dairy sustenance

LOL, I just remembered that my grandfather used to make a big deal of frying up and eating chicken gizzards, which is a very southern thing. And they were always freshed, because he kept a yard full of roosters and hens, mostly raising them for cockfighting. So there's my real southern cred, right there: Gizzards and cockfighting.

oh they totally are.

i really just didn't understand harbl's 'no south = britain' thing, since it seems close to the opposite

― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx),

ha i didn't mean much by this except i was thinking of the industrial northeast as an analog of the english industrial cities and then with the surrounding rural areas. but no huge plantations. which are kind of necessary for the industry but as i said i wasn't really serious. but if there was no south america would be waaaaaay difft, and not america, and i would hate it. that's about all i mean.

bc i love america

i kind of want to move to the south! i grew up south of the mason-dixon, technically, but it's appalachia. no idea what cities to consider though..

I grew up in the rural upper midwest and people were cold and distant in a stoic Scandinavian kind of way - they'd gladly pull over in a blizzard and help shovel your car out or help you in tons of other ways but they had no interest in small talk and faked friendliness for the most part.

When I moved from there to the northwest it actually took me a while to get used to people actually talking to you in public and even longer to realize that they weren't pandering or being facetious.

southern cities i endorse from personal experience (tho often only a weekend here or there):

knoxville
nashville
atlanta
new orleans
charleston
savannah
memphis
birmingham
asheville
chapel hill

i mean, i'm sure they all have their pluses and minuses, but i managed to have a good time all of those places. (haven't been to n.o. post-katrina, mind you.)

oh and how could i forget myrtle beach?

i fully endorse athens, ga.

and i love some southern food but i have never had anything as disgusting as chitlins

being mostly vegetarian presents interesting challenges vis a vis southern cooking, but it does keep you away from chitlins.

shout out to my mississippi friends. i definitely wasn't expecting town names like abbeville and batesville to be dropped.

i grew up in jackson. now i live in taylor, near oxford (hour or so south of memphis).

to be fair, i could only live in the south while existing in some sort of liberal pocket. i mean, very few if any of my friends or family members voted for mccain.

also, regarding southern vegitarian cooking:
http://www.amazon.com/Grit-Cookbook-World-Wise-Down-Home-Recipes/dp/1588180492

I would personally not encourage anyone to move to Atlanta.

I mean maybe if the only other alternative was Dallas.

I did not like living in Atlanta either.

i've had friends who lived around the little five points area and it seemed like a nice enough area. granted i never spent more than a few days there. (also traffic in and around atlanta is amazingly terrible.)

Atlanta is the only other city besides L.A. I've been to where the pollution was so bad that I found it painful to breathe.

how long is it until Atlanta runs out of water? the population growth there has been staggering. read somewhere that in '81 it was about the size Little Rock metro area is now.

that's being negotiated right now.

I was in the locker room at the gym in my office park once in the ATL during a period of drought and water restriction listening to two suburbanites talk about the hardship of having to water their lawns in the morning instead of whenever they damn well pleased and it made me very depressed.

when the New Madrid Fault finally brings us "the big one," all the survivors will move to Little Rock, which will be on the shore of a new great lake fed by the flooded Mississippi. We will absorb the pops. of Memphis, St. Louis, and everywhere in between to become a southern megacity. And we'll have the worst public transportation and the worst crime. Looking forward to this.

Fuck Atlanta.

I endorse: New Orleans. Charleston.

In the interest of fairness, aside from craptacular public transportation and absolute hostility towards all pedestrians, most of my beefs w/ Atlanta were personal, in that I just never really connected with the city or its residents and thus never felt at home there.

It's a sprawling gigantic nowhere. I have had some good times there, but it felt like a big suburb.

B-b-but World of Coca Cola!

Geez atlanta isn't really that bad. actually a decent city if you live in a good neighborhood. that being said, i couldn't live there again bc of the traffic.

People in rural NC are gaga over Underground Atlanta. Which is a mall. An underground mall.

also, regarding southern vegitarian cooking:
http://www.amazon.com/Grit-Cookbook-World-Wise-Down-Home-Recipes/dp/1588180492

my favorite cookbook of all time. just made the squash casserole the other day. so unhealthy and delicious.

the grit is the best. embarrassed i misspelled vegetarian tho.

also, RIP ted hafer:

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/111007/news_20071110072.shtml

After growing up in Minnesota then spending 6 years in Seattle, I lived in Gainesville FL for 6 years. Gainesville might not 'count' as the South but you drive 15 minutes out of town to Waldo and you are damn sure in the South.

Gainesville was my favorite of all the cities I've inhabited and I would move there again in a hot minute if my wife wasn't terrified of 'stagnating' in a small town.

Classic: reptile life, spanish moss, 'Boil P-Nuts', sweet tea, live oaks, renting a whole house for 800 bucks.

Dud: rows of tiny anti-abortion crosses in front yards of churches, forced hibernation at high noon, too many goths, erm that's about it.

Then I lived in Atlanta for 1 year and while I don't hate the place, I never felt comfortable/at home/welcome there and never really want to go there again. The civic identity there is like pious yupsville hell, and the indie culture is all rockabilly and Coop tattoos and dumb Goth comics. I liked that it was a big southern city with an actually large black middle class though.

you seem to have issues with goths

i grew up in jackson. now i live in taylor, near oxford (hour or so south of memphis).

I wholly endorse Taylor. Underrated is nearby Water Valley. There are some really cool, old well-built homes for considerably cheaper than the insane market prices in Oxford. My folks lived there for about four years when they first moved back to North MS before finally moving back to my dad's hometown of Batseville (Which is a total POS town. Horrible strip mall eyesore imo.)

xpost Not normally but somehow in the SWELTERING HEAT i found them aggravating like WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO YRSELF???

Re: ATL the rockabilly thing was much more annoying than the goth thing.

nice casket factory though (xp)

lol poetic

Goths in heat make me feel hotter than I normally would. Spanish moss is ultra-classic.

as are the live oaks. nothing better than an old ass live oak.

True/False 'don't handle it, it has lots of tiny mites living in it'?

xpost re spanish moss

you like gainesville jon? i've never been but have horrible image of it based on nothing more than that serial killer a while back and FLA football (steve spurrier, tim tebow, ugh).

(i ask partly because it's where my department at work is supposedly being outsourced to, and a few people have talked about possibly moving down there.)

friends of mine say gainesville is pretty great until the tom petty saturation effect

i have a friend from gainesville and she always made it sound like a wonderful place

The civic identity there is like pious yupsville hell, and the indie culture is all rockabilly and Coop tattoos and dumb Goth comics.

Oh my gosh, this is it exactly. I lived in Little Five Points, and should have been content and am usually quite pro-Goth, but wow, yeah. I lacked the time, energy, or force of will to maintain a Rockabilly lifestyle and it was too hot for Goth and I actually don't know what a Coop tattoo is, but you're also OTM about pious yupsville hell.

Also, the obsession with college football exhausted me, especially when coworkers would act so hurt and puzzled when I couldn't tell them my alma mater's division or conference or how they were performing in a given season.

The college football thing in Gainesville was just like this weird parallel universe to me. I tried not to drive around on home game days and other than that I could pretty much ignore it.

Obv there are many jock type ppl in school there, but srsly it is like a liberal and verdant oasis and fully awesome town.

The civic identity there is like pious yupsville hell, and the indie culture is all rockabilly and Coop tattoos and dumb Goth comics.

I have had lots of fun when I've visited Atlanta, but this is pretty much bursting at the seams with otm.

Charlotte, NC wants to be Atlanta soooo bad. I think it also wants to be L.A. in a way - blond, tan, skinny women with real Coach and Kate Spade bags prevail.

Charlotte is pretty bad b/c every restaurant, bar, and store is a chain.

Spent a weekend in Charlotte and was not bewitched. Would love to experience other parts of NC though.

yeah i went to see a springsteen show in charlotte and then opted to spend the rest of the weekend in chapel hill.

Raleigh is gorgeous though, especially the surrounding country. I have lots of time for the Carolinas. I adore Charleston.

Charlotte sux

Charlotte recently got a light rail system.

Charlotte's airport is sweet, though.

Coincidentally, someone posted this on Andrew Sullivan's blog today, in response to open calls for posts about the South:

-- Two things strike me about Charlotte. 1) How it is the embodiment of the excesses of the 1990’s and 2000’s; 2) It has been the shining example of what the South wanted to be. It’s home to the world headquarters of Bank of America; the Wachovia Center, which was going to be the gleaming palace for the 4th largest bank, before it collapsed and was bought up by Wells Fargo. The attention of the world financial collapse is on Wall Street, but in reality, a lot of what happened took place in Charlotte. The culture of this boomtown reflects that. Another corporate boom-time icon you see in Charlotte is the world of NASCAR. Their headquarters hall of fame and the mammoth team facilities are based in Charlotte. With the fall of the economy, many changes have taken place there. You will find a lot of glitzy vacant office complexes, subdivisions meant for 1000 houses with 8 actually built and the other signs of the fall. There are also many out of work bankers driving their Lexus cars to the local amusement park to get part time work. Also, you will find former NASCAR mechanics who have gone from flying on private jets to fix 200 MPH speed machines on national television, to changing oil on some guys Buick Century at Wal-Mart.

You know what southern city as a sweet little airport? Greensboro, NC. Love that airport.

Actually every other city in NC I hear good/intriguing things about except Charlotte (the only one I've actually been to).

Tobacco + Jesus + Big Banking = Bye.

things i miss about the south:

drunk 4-yr-old crossdressers stealing my christmas presents

proof that memphis is in mississippi:

http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/ms

Is there a thread on the floods and the rising Mississippi?

I don't think so.

Saw this this morning: May 6th last year and May 6th this year.

http://memphisflood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/missrv_amo_2010125.jpg
http://memphisflood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/missrv_amo_2011125.jpg

http://www.good.is/post/should-we-follow-the-dutch-and-give-land-back-to-the-flooding-mississippi-river

Posted this the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKsehkcIF8

Here's some before and after at Memphis:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/50000/50549/memphis_tm5_2010111.jpg http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/50000/50549/memphis_tm5_2011130.jpg

http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/05/mississippi-river-flooding-spares-some-tourist-areas-threatens-others/169848/1

About 45 minutes south of Memphis, however, nine riverfront casinos remain shuttered indefinitely in Tunica, Miss. They're among 19 Mississippi casinos and 6,700-plus hotel rooms expected to be shut down by the weekend, and could remain closed for up to a month.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5024/5694340455_5bce811eb6.jpg

Saw a funny headline about Tunica the other day. Like "Millions lost at Mississippi casinos." Now I can't find it for proof.

Something about a dark half-flooded casino floor filled with cottonmouths swimming at roulette level pleases me for some reason.

that moat has blown my mind. what kind of illicit and/or extremely heavy possessions do you have to possess in order to opt for HOMEMADE LEVEE AND MOAT CONSTRUCTION as opposed to something like insurance or moving?

hope akaky akakievich found some high ground

pride is an extremely heavy possession

xxxp You know, I think you just have to be cussed.

The moat from above:

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9536/themoataerial.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BGcc4.gif

hahaha fuck yeah

(I don't think that's the south, but it's still lol.)

yeah that guy otm

While some farms in the cotton-, rice- and corn-growing Delta are prosperous, there is also grinding poverty. Nine of the 11 counties that touch the Mississippi River in Mississippi have poverty rates at least double the national average of 13.5 percent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

In the Memphis, Tenn., area, where the Mississippi crested on Tuesday just inches short of the 1927 record, many of the flooded dwellings were mobile homes and one-story brick or wood buildings in low-lying, working-class neighborhoods unprotected by floodwalls or levees. from the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-cresting-in-memphis-flooded-mississippi-river-takes-aim-at-poverty-stricken-delta/2011/05/11/AFY2XwnG_story_1.html

My suggested reading for the month is RISING TIDE, about how engineers have been trying to control the Mississippi River, the impact of the river on race relations, and the pros and cons of civilian versus military control of the river. If you're interested about how and why some of the stuff going on is happening, (levees destroyed by the Corps of Engineers, the Morganza Spillway, why the river is routed the way it is) I highly recommend it.

US Army engineers have opened a major Louisiana floodgate to ease pressure from the swollen Mississippi River, hoping to save cities by sacrificing small towns and farmland that face historic flooding.

The worst floods to hit the central US in more than 70 years have already swallowed up thousands of homes, farms and roads and the mighty river is expected to remain above flood stage for many more days.

The US Army Corps of Engineers opened a single bay at the key Morganza Spillway on Saturday (local time), allowing a relatively small amount of the river through.

It marks the first time the spillway has been opened since 1973, and only the second time since its completion in 1954.

"This is certainly going to be a marathon and not a sprint," Major General Michael Walsh told a press conference, noting the "tremendous pressure on the entire system".

Somewhere down around Vicksburg:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/19/article-1388660-0C24804300000578-687_964x551.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/19/article-1388660-0C2432AC00000578-841_964x593.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/19/article-1388660-0C25E69700000578-339_964x592.jpg

How high's the water, Mama?

those pictures are terrifying.